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00:00:00
00:00:01
Bronson - Geotechnical Engineer
38 Plays10 days ago
To say Bronson has an important job is an understatement. When something is built, the foundation is where a project can succeed or fail. Making sure that the soil, the water, gravity and materials all operate cohesively is vital to a projects success. Enter the Geotechnical Engineer. Bronson gets new puzzles to solve on a regular basis and he goes to work calculating risk, ensuring materials meet the desired specifications and that all tolerances are within spec. The project may be in an earthquake area, the soil may be sandy or muddy, there are numerous aspects of a projects foundation to consider. If you think engineering is a career path you want to pursue, this area of specialization may be just the one you're looking for. Thanks Bronson!
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Transcript
00:00:01
The Jobs Podcast
Hey folks, you're listening to the jobs podcast. I'm your host, Tim Hendricks. Today we have a guest. His name is Bronson and he has a job that I have to admit. I had to look up the title because I didn't know that this job description even existed.
00:00:15
The Jobs Podcast
He is a geotechnical engineer and I'm really glad he's here to explain exactly what he does because I've never heard of that one before. Welcome Bronson.
00:00:25
Bronson
and
00:00:27
The Jobs Podcast
How you doing?
00:00:29
Bronson
I'm good. I'm real good.
00:00:31
The Jobs Podcast
so
00:00:31
Bronson
We're.
00:00:33
The Jobs Podcast
So go ahead and so we'll start off with a little bit of history about where you were born, your early upbringing, and and walk through your education and just kind of give us your origin story and ah in a few minutes.
00:00:45
Bronson
Sure. Well, I'm a misplaced Midwesterner. um Grew up in Greene County, Missouri, and went to Parkview High School. ah Kind of graduated early and did a ah formative year, a foreign exchange student to France.
00:01:07
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, wow.
00:01:07
Bronson
And I would say of all the education experiences, if you could boil it down into the one thing that really set me about on a trajectory, you know, from, from high school age forward is that, that year span abroad.
00:01:26
The Jobs Podcast
What was it that was so transformative?
00:01:29
Bronson
But it got me out of my comfort zone.
00:01:32
The Jobs Podcast
Ah.
00:01:32
Bronson
And when you don't speak the language super well, you end up saying yes to things that you don't fully understand and, uh, keeping an open mind and kind kind of forces you to, to try things. And, a lot of ways go out on a limb, but you know, that, that in of itself.
00:01:58
Bronson
Um, but I mean, I tell you, there's not a, there's not a day goes by that I'm not doing something or touching something that, um, it didn't have roots into those years.
00:02:11
The Jobs Podcast
Wow.
00:02:12
Bronson
So if anyone gets a chance ah to to break out of the American high school culture, go check out a different culture anywhere else, anything that's different, you know that's ah that's a strong plug.
00:02:26
The Jobs Podcast
How long were you over there for the ah the foreign exchange stint? Was it just a year or two or?
00:02:30
Bronson
as um you know through the Through the scholastic year,
00:02:36
The Jobs Podcast
okay
00:02:36
Bronson
But um the way the the way the visas worked out, um I stayed up until the day they were going to kick me out.
00:02:45
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Hmm.
00:02:45
Bronson
i so It's a is a really long story, but the short version is I didn't have anything to do between the summer after that senior year until I started university.
00:03:03
Bronson
So I said, well, I'm not going to go back to Missouri to hang out and not have anything to do. I'm going to stay in France, hang out the beach, be with my friends and continue traveling. So, yeah, I came back two days before starting freshman orientation week at the University of Missouri Rollins.
00:03:23
The Jobs Podcast
Wow. what's What's the reception like? You always hear about certain countries that like Americans, don't like Americans, and I'm sure it just depends on how you act.
00:03:35
The Jobs Podcast
Did you have a ah somewhat of a cold reception until you won them over, or was it pretty pretty warm from the very beginning, or how how was your interaction with folks over there?
00:03:46
Bronson
And that's a great question. Because at the time, you think back, Tim, that was in the 2002-2003 school year. And was 2003 that the United States invaded Iraq. And... and that like it was march of twenty of of two thousand and three that um united states invaded i iraq
00:04:06
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:04:07
Bronson
and But I mean, first, the host families, um you know, they all they all agreed to host an American. Right. So you've already got like that your closest people to you are already on your side or at least an open mind.
00:04:21
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:04:22
Bronson
um My role, ah one of the roles that you have is to be an ambassador for your culture and And it doesn't mean that you own the politics of your country, but in a way you represent the actions on a global stage.
00:04:39
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:39
Bronson
And so at the at a ripe young age of 17, I was ah confronted at times with peers who were also curious and wanted to know my opinions and did I agree or didn't agree. And it was one of the first times I realized how, don't want say forceful, but how present the United States foreign policy is.
00:05:03
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:05:03
Bronson
um And, and, and how engaged the young people were. Like, I didn't think, know, I read the, I read the economist and I had, I was in speech debate. We had all these news sources from, you know, foreign lands.
00:05:17
Bronson
Other people in my peer group didn't read in the United States, but the vast America, the vast majority of, of those high school students were current on on the affairs of the world, and they were aware of what was happening and the direction things were going in a way that I i was never on my own and and my peer group wasn't.
00:05:42
Bronson
So, yeah, fascinating question. And then, of course, with the war or the military action, whatever we end up calling it, you know, that was ah that was a high point they and I came out of like the equivalent of a Best Buy, like walked out on the street and there was a giant anti-war protest, which France protests every three days for anything.
00:06:07
Bronson
but But that was a big one at that time.
00:06:07
The Jobs Podcast
That's true, yeah.
00:06:11
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:06:11
Bronson
And I was really surprised by how strongly people felt. And that's what I took away from it is is that there there are people that care very deeply. um And, you know right, wrong, left or right, you know, it's people feel very passionately.
00:06:27
Bronson
And I think it's really important to keep that open mind and and learn um the other point of view.
00:06:35
The Jobs Podcast
Do you think that, and this is a bit of a rabbit hole, we're not, we haven't got to your job yet, but I am curious, do you, you know, in the United States, you can drive two days in any direction and you'll still be in the United States.
00:06:48
The Jobs Podcast
And then you go over to Europe and you drive two days and you've passed through four or five countries, depending on what part of Europe you're in.
00:06:54
Bronson
yeah yeah
00:06:55
The Jobs Podcast
I, I sometimes wonder if We just are never exposed to different cultures as often or as they they live right there, you know, like a couple hundred miles that way or kilometers, whichever.
00:07:09
The Jobs Podcast
I forget what they use over there.
00:07:10
Bronson
yeah
00:07:10
The Jobs Podcast
But, you know, so I think it's just more ah part of their daily life to mix and mingle with different cultures. And so there's a lot of cross conversations.
00:07:21
The Jobs Podcast
Does that that track?
00:07:22
Bronson
it It kind of does. And i I also had that same kind of, hey, you know, the geographic boundaries, you know, being formed in European countries were geographic features like mountains and rivers and they were hard to cross. and that You know, but if you think about it, I mean, there are there are people that live in St. Louis County that have never been of...
00:07:47
Bronson
of of I'm thinking 370 and they've never been east of page Avenue or 170.
00:07:53
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Right.
00:07:58
Bronson
Right. And I had, I've yeah, rabbit hole, but we had, we've hosted exchange students and ah those exchange students have come home and told us about their interactions with the kids.
00:08:10
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:08:14
Bronson
And, you know, one stands out that, uh, The student came home and told us that they met someone one who had never left, who had never been outside of St. Louis City.
00:08:29
Bronson
And so, yeah, there are people in Europe that don't travel as much and you consider the the fuel costs are three times as high.
00:08:35
The Jobs Podcast
right
00:08:36
Bronson
You know, it's just not a thing. Like we we have the freedom to travel in two days in one direction, sometimes not get out of state.
00:08:42
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:08:45
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:08:45
Bronson
ah
00:08:46
The Jobs Podcast
Thinking of you, Texas.
00:08:46
Bronson
but she But other times, um you know, you've got to have the ambition or the will to go or there has to be an attraction to to go and see um or a heart to go and explore.
00:08:59
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:09:03
Bronson
And some people are not made that way.
00:09:06
The Jobs Podcast
Sure. And, you know, it's different strokes for different folks, but you made a comment a minute ago that it's something that I personally ah have always just had in my head.
00:09:17
The Jobs Podcast
And I've only been to a couple of countries, but I've not done a lot of extensive traveling outside of North America. But I see sometimes folks that travel over to Europe and
00:09:26
Bronson
Sure.
00:09:31
The Jobs Podcast
And they they seem to think that they're going to have the red carpet rolled out or that the Constitution follows them.
00:09:33
Bronson
Hey.
00:09:37
The Jobs Podcast
And those two things a lot of times are not, well, one of them is not not true.
00:09:37
Bronson
and
00:09:42
The Jobs Podcast
When you leave here, you know the rules of America don't apply in other countries. So you have to remember that. But I also think that one thing that Americans have forgotten is that we need to go over wherever we're going and represent our country to the best of our ability.
00:09:58
The Jobs Podcast
Because if you have folks that have maybe a negative viewpoint of America, they can at least say, well, that guy wasn't that bad. and He was okay. And that's how the change in perception begins.
00:10:09
Bronson
absolutely. Yes. absolutely
00:10:12
The Jobs Podcast
But I'll get off my soapbox now and let's get back to talking about your geotechnical engineering. So you've come back from your you're obviously very ah important and transformative time in France.
00:10:26
The Jobs Podcast
You have started school in Raleigh, you said.
00:10:29
Bronson
yes
00:10:30
The Jobs Podcast
And um walk me through those next steps in your education.
00:10:35
Bronson
man So like doing the college search, you know, between shucking oysters and surfing was difficult.
00:10:47
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:10:49
Bronson
I have my mom to thank for filling out some of the application forms. i had ah i had a free ride to ah number of universities ah except for where I ended up going.
00:11:03
Bronson
and it was um so the university of missouri rolla they've since changed their name or rebranded to missouri science and technology and um i selected that school because they have their big slogan at the time was the name the degree the difference and i believed ah based on the stats the research that i'd done that the job placement and the starting salaries were or my best future like that.
00:11:34
Bronson
And so i I enrolled on that banner and was determined to figure out what type of engineering i was going to do, but I had to get started so I could explore. it And it took it took a little while to get through the freshman prereqs and you kind of bounce around to go to as many seminars as you can. and You float between you know the big four, chemical, mechanical, um electrical, and civil engineering. everyone a lot of um
00:12:07
Bronson
If you talk about engineering, most most people know those four.
00:12:10
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:12:11
Bronson
um But i I was influenced by a professor who who's fascinating guy, ah former Marine intelligence um officer, had traveled, done all kinds of geotechnical forensics.
00:12:29
Bronson
So failures and understanding why and how failures happened. It came out of the consulting world. So you know
00:12:40
Bronson
rather than private or um ah public works like the Army Corps of Engineers, And gosh, i I just was really interested in the kinds of things that he was doing.
00:12:53
Bronson
And that led me into the geotechnical engineering world. Yeah. So geotechs themselves are part of the civil.
00:13:04
Bronson
you know if you If you think of those four, electrical, civil, mechanical, those are the big four, but there are branches of them. I think of those as big fours as trees and that these branches are our specializations.
00:13:19
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:13:19
Bronson
And the geotechnical engineering course of study is a master's degree level course of study. there's There's so much in the fundamentals of ah from civil engineering that you really have to have you know good roots in before you can get to the level of study where geotide happens.
00:13:44
The Jobs Podcast
What was the initial ah launching point for I'm going to get into engineering? what where was there a Did you have an early influence as far as a family member or a friend that did it, or was it just something that you saw, or how did you find yourself in that lane?
00:14:05
Bronson
sure Man. ah So.
00:14:09
Bronson
It was a course of things that happened, starting probably with Ben Jagger's in eighth grade shop where. and and through, through those years, seventh grade, you start taking aptitude tests and, you know, there's a Venn diagram for everything.
00:14:25
Bronson
And, um and engineers love Venn diagrams and most.
00:14:26
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:14:30
Bronson
So, and so, ah you know, when you're, when you're a problem solver and you enjoy math and you know, that puts you in the engineer category.
00:14:41
The Jobs Podcast
yeah Okay.
00:14:41
Bronson
And so I i socially it wasn't super, super strong, but I, You know, I knew that was a weakness and I just thought, OK, someone's going to put problems on my desk and I can solve them.
00:14:52
Bronson
And I like I like that part. um And then you develop the tools to solve the problems. And the more tools you have, you know if you only have one, you know, you only have the hammer.
00:15:04
Bronson
Every problem looks like the nail.
00:15:06
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:15:06
Bronson
And so to recognize ah all the variable solutions, you've got to have a lot of tools in your tool bag.
00:15:15
The Jobs Podcast
Is the tool collection filling up your toolbox to continue with the analogy? Is that where you you have the discovery of this is my favorite kind of puzzle.
00:15:27
The Jobs Podcast
And then that leads you down one of those branches.
00:15:27
Bronson
Yeah.
00:15:30
Bronson
Yeah.
00:15:31
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:15:31
Bronson
Yeah, that's it. You know, thermal thermodynamics or, you know, organic chemistry, like, that those are interesting puzzles.
00:15:34
The Jobs Podcast
So, hmm.
00:15:40
Bronson
But I and was not interested in in acquiring those tools as much as, hey, studying... studying soil stratigraphy, rock stratigraphy, behavior of those natural materials. There's a wider range, wider design envelope and and found it more fascinating. Yep.
00:16:05
Bronson
yeah and
00:16:06
The Jobs Podcast
What industries do you typically find your skillset utilized the most? And i can I can see, you know, building bridges, building skyscrapers. ah If you're in an area that's prone to earthquakes, I can see mining.
00:16:23
The Jobs Podcast
But do you then work in all of those or do you have, I'm a geotechnical engineer that specializes in earthquake zone construction or in mining or in or do you just kind of do it all?
00:16:36
Bronson
Well, certainly early on, um you you do ah everything you can, because there are, there are you know, the the associates or the 25-year senior folks that have spent their career becoming the expert in,
00:16:44
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:16:56
Bronson
like deep foundations or more specifically large diameter pipe pile foundations you know that are and so the the more senior you get the more specialized you tend to fall into not only in the category geotech but of a type of foundation or of a type of construction like a bridge or a skyscraper um but early on you kind of dabble in everything
00:17:17
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:17:25
The Jobs Podcast
the The focus that you choose, well, the focus may choose you. You may be going down a certain lane thinking I'm really digging this and all of a sudden,
00:17:31
Bronson
That's right.
00:17:35
The Jobs Podcast
you no pun intended there and and you move over and you find another, another lane that you really like and you find yourself, you know, doing something else is it, it seems like it's just a, a process of discovery as you are learning everything, you're discovering what you're good at and what you gravitate towards.
00:17:52
Bronson
Absolutely.
00:17:54
Bronson
And, and there are, I'll add that there are, uh,
00:17:54
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:18:02
Bronson
in my experience a lot of geotechs end up in some form of consulting and and what that what that means is it's it's a design firm that does the initial planning or the components of design so that's before any any ground gets broken for buildings right like the the initial civil planners uh layout where the bridge abutments are going to go
00:18:08
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:18:28
Bronson
And then the geotechs start working on, well, how deep do these foundations need to go? or what's the most economical form that will support the loads that the structurals or the bridge designers have developed?
00:18:41
Bronson
you know So there's a lot of design optimization that happens before the geotechs get involved. And yeah.
00:18:46
The Jobs Podcast
the Well, do you find a lot of clashing between the the more artistic design, this is what we want because it looks cosmetically appealing, versus the engineer side, the structural side, where you say, this is not going to work?
00:18:59
Bronson
ah what I love you. Thank Greg. Initially, I wouldn't call that a clash. it's It's more of the iterative design process.
00:19:12
Bronson
um
00:19:12
The Jobs Podcast
Collaborative efforts, then?
00:19:13
Bronson
Yeah.
00:19:14
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:19:14
Bronson
Well, in in the iterative, meaning, hey, let's start.
00:19:14
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:19:17
Bronson
We start with a concept and kind of a 10% thought through idea. and and And you i cut out the stuff that is not going to work, you know, that is unreasonable.
00:19:30
Bronson
ah Or you ah design or you adapt the design to make, you know, to think it through a little more, maybe get it to that 35 or the 55%.
00:19:40
Bronson
um and And then you can start really putting a form to the function of what year what you're going to build. If the architect, which is where the cosmetic look and feel, ah if if if the design comes from them,
00:20:00
Bronson
ah there may be more iterations or getting that getting the structural components the forces to to support that cosmetic form you got to get that in lined out early um when it's purpose like a you know municipalities or counties putting in a bridge you know there's there's not often points awarded for beautiful bridges but I can think of the
00:20:30
The Jobs Podcast
There is not. Mm-hmm.
00:20:32
Bronson
But, that you know, a lot of pedestrian bridges or signature bridges for cities, they they tend to have a flare or, you know, there's something that's going to be in that city's postcard. And so they want that to look and represent the feel and and kind of the banner for that city.
00:20:51
Bronson
And so those are really important um design processes.
00:20:56
The Jobs Podcast
I got a question that's totally out of left field, but I'm going to throw it at you anyway. And this is just my opinion. So anybody listening, you know, you can keep your letters and your emails at home. But um a lot of the time when I see something being built nowadays,
00:21:14
The Jobs Podcast
I don't see a lot of imagination. I don't see, i know that you can make something just over the top artistic, but if you look at society now, a lot of times these older buildings have so much character and there's so much uniqueness and,
00:21:33
The Jobs Podcast
they took the time to go, yes, I know that this costs a little bit more, but it's going to be so pleasing to the eye and make it look warm or comforting or whatever positive term you want to put on that.
00:21:46
The Jobs Podcast
Nowadays, it seems like it's just very much the budget was obviously in charge of this project.
00:21:46
Bronson
Yeah.
00:21:51
The Jobs Podcast
is Is that a ah dance that you typically do on every project where it's, we'd like to make this really look like this, but we can only afford to make it look like this. And so that's what we're going to have to settle for.
00:22:02
Bronson
yeah um Honestly, Tim, i I don't run into that a whole lot. and A lot of times those those decisions are made ah in the design process before i get to them.
00:22:16
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:22:17
Bronson
ah But, you know, it's it's an interesting question. Because you think like in in architecture, different cities have, you know, different fields. ah St. Louis is big brick city.
00:22:33
Bronson
um and so you know that's all the clay mines i mean that was the readily available source materials and florida is lot of stucco um because that suits the climate you know and it's it's it's easy to put up and you can and you know most of florida has been built out in the last 50 60 years i mean everything um and
00:22:41
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:22:52
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:22:58
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:23:01
Bronson
You get you know older cities have more durable ah materials because that's all that was available. i I drive by one of the oldest, ah longest single span concrete bridges you know in the early 1900s.
00:23:16
Bronson
Concrete was a new building material. know, we still didn't.
00:23:20
The Jobs Podcast
That's crazy.
00:23:21
Bronson
Yeah. And so you you um i think it's it's so interesting about the architecture or the feel of buildings, because what what may have been just an everyday item ah at the time, you know, your everyday five-story apartment building, maybe something pretty special 30, 40 years from now.
00:23:49
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:23:50
Bronson
You know, it doesn't feel that special now.
00:23:50
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, you see that. Well, you see that in St. Louis. I've spent a fair amount of time in St. Louis, and you'll see these new sky skyscrapers go up or these high-rise apartment complexes, and they're you know very modern-looking, lots of glass, lots of metal, ah lots of concrete.
00:24:07
The Jobs Podcast
And then you'll see a building next to it that's 80 years old, 90 years old, that's four or five stories. It's made from brick. And it just the contrast is stark.
00:24:18
The Jobs Podcast
um But there's a warmth that those older buildings have that a lot of times the new ones just don't. But I also know that there's the insulating factor and the the durability factor and the speed of construction and all that kind of stuff.
00:24:27
Bronson
So that would be a new stage, shift in.
00:24:31
The Jobs Podcast
So.
00:24:32
Bronson
Yeah, and economics of operations also comes into play.
00:24:35
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:36
Bronson
You know, if it if it was just as economical to build that same brick building, I think owners would be doing it.
00:24:46
The Jobs Podcast
Sure.
00:24:46
Bronson
You know, the really cool stuff that's coming out with the LEED certified, all you know, these environmental forward architectural concepts and material selections.
00:24:52
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:24:57
Bronson
We're doing some stuff now.
00:24:57
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:24:58
Bronson
I say we, not me, but The market is doing some really interesting things with with resins and and basically paper in making sightings that are more environmentally friendly and just as durable that have an incredible are you know an installation factor.
00:25:17
Bronson
and you know, I think those guys laying those bricks in the 1920s would kill to have something like that, you know, you know, and, and, uh, yeah, it's just, I think that there's, there's still a lot of, uh, you know, research and development into building materials.
00:25:25
The Jobs Podcast
Probably. Yeah.
00:25:37
Bronson
And I think the architects are on the leading edge of that and bringing that into our cities and our homes.
00:25:37
The Jobs Podcast
Sure.
00:25:43
Bronson
And i'm on I'm on the soil level and down, you know, as as far as the design side. So the really cool projects for me is when you can actually see what you've constructed.
00:25:56
Bronson
Because it it's so rare, right? And once you lay the foundation, everything's covered up. And, you know,
00:26:04
Bronson
Yeah, you only know if the if the geotech screwed up at some point, you know, because there's cracks or something in the walls or windows stop closing and the tolerances for those are huge, you know, so it's it's ah and oftentimes the the windows aren't closing in the doors, you know, there's cracks in foundation.
00:26:10
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:26:23
Bronson
Oftentimes the geotech was not involved at all.
00:26:26
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, okay.
00:26:28
Bronson
So.
00:26:28
The Jobs Podcast
So what let's ah let's dive into your specific day-to-day stuff. what What do you typically focus on as, and like you know, let's say you're coming into work this morning and besides this interview, what's what's something that you're going to be digging into?
00:26:47
Bronson
uh on a normal on a normal day so from the from an elevator speech i would say we're evaluating future construction sites to determine the acceptable building loads
00:26:51
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:27:09
Bronson
ah performing ah ah collecting soil samples, performing laboratory tests on those soil and rock samples, and then writing. I think half of half of every day is writing, either writing technical description emails, updating your client, or working on sections of the report as the as the data comes in and as the analysis is completed.
00:27:37
The Jobs Podcast
So you're you're running a lot of calculations with math. You're looking at the type of soil that this project is in. You're looking at, I'm assuming you're looking at, um
00:27:47
Bronson
yeah
00:27:48
The Jobs Podcast
water, where it's flowing, underground aquifers, all that kind of stuff, that you just have a checklist of things that you have to run every project through and make sure that it's it's it's fitting those parameters of each step.
00:27:49
Bronson
Yeah.
00:28:04
Bronson
That's a really good summary. Yeah.
00:28:06
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:28:07
Bronson
and
00:28:07
The Jobs Podcast
So...
00:28:07
Bronson
And ah estimating the performance of those materials.
00:28:12
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:28:13
Bronson
To put another way, you know, we can measure with a micron how much a piece of steel, like a grade beam, would move based on a temperature change.
00:28:26
Bronson
We can measure that. We can predict it with a micron.
00:28:29
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm. Oof.
00:28:29
Bronson
The variability of soils, clays, sands, silts, and their behavior ranges, depending on how much water is in them and what kind of load is on them, how much of a force is on them.
00:28:42
Bronson
uh, changes their behavior and and how much they might move. So our job is to predict the unpredictable thank with, with very little, uh, data.
00:28:52
The Jobs Podcast
oh
00:28:57
The Jobs Podcast
The movement of buildings is something that if you've ever been in a skyscraper when high winds, there is movement.
00:29:04
Bronson
Yeah.
00:29:06
The Jobs Podcast
And it's a it's a little unsettling, if I'm honest, when you're way up there.
00:29:06
Bronson
Oh yeah.
00:29:10
The Jobs Podcast
But I know that it's designed to do that to a certain degree, correct?
00:29:15
Bronson
Yes. Yeah, that's a tolerance.
00:29:16
The Jobs Podcast
but that's not But the foundation is not moving, or is it?
00:29:20
Bronson
Right. ah So in that case, it's it's the structural elements like the the assemblage of the windows and the the inner frame of the building.
00:29:31
Bronson
um It has some flexibility because if you build it too stiffly, too stiff, it becomes brittle, or the sheer forces become enormous.
00:29:46
Bronson
So having some flexibility in that building,
00:29:51
Bronson
a tolerance for movement is and structurally acceptable. um Some buildings have moved lot and not not intended to be.
00:30:04
Bronson
Like I think the one of the most famous s ones in North America is probably the Millennium Building in San Francisco. and And in that case, the foundations are moving. um And it's it's well known.
00:30:17
Bronson
i mean, they're it's like every year there's a ah presentation on like, where's the update? But the foundations are set in, you know, in the San Francisco Bay MUDs.
00:30:29
Bronson
and over time i mean it's it to a much much less extent um but the the famous tower of pisa in italy that's leaning that's a diff that's a that's a textbook example of differential settlement you know you've got stiff soils on one side of the foundation and you got really soft
00:30:42
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:30:54
Bronson
soils on the other side of the foundation. And over time, the building is centrically tilts and more load goes on the soft stuff and more load goes on the soft stuff. As it tilts, it just increases the load and increases the settlement.
00:31:09
Bronson
um There's that millennium buildings been retrofitted and we're continuing the industries continuing to study how that's going. the ah The Tower of Pisa was actually retrofitted.
00:31:23
Bronson
they They wanted it to be a leaning tower.
00:31:23
The Jobs Podcast
Really?
00:31:24
Bronson
They could have corrected it and made it just the tower Pisa. yeah But it's...
00:31:29
The Jobs Podcast
The tourists aren't going come to just see a building.
00:31:29
Bronson
it's but that That's right. So the that's the fun part is trying to figure out how much how much do we need to support this thing so that it doesn't continue to move but that it stays tilting.
00:31:43
Bronson
you know
00:31:44
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:31:45
Bronson
But yeah, you've got the of the... guess the scope... of the ah the i guess the scope right on the money.
00:31:55
The Jobs Podcast
what What are some standout changes that you've seen in your career as far as the materials used or ah ah drastic shift in a design approach or you know major, I guess, just we used to do it this way. We're doing a 180 as far as foundations go or the depth or whatever materials. you know There's high strength steel, there's concrete changes.
00:32:23
The Jobs Podcast
Has there been anything that just pops out at you? It's like, wow, that was a major shift or hopefully an improvement in in what you do.
00:32:29
Bronson
Yeah. Well, there there have been continued developments in software, analytical packages, things that you would use to model like slope stability or groundwater movement.
00:32:44
Bronson
um The modeling side of my job his has made leaps and bounds of changes that make the analytical work so much easier.
00:32:57
Bronson
you think, and you know, the a lot of the practice you know the the empirical information that was gained the experience about how clays behave in tunnels and how um ah like what to do when this happens and what to do when why happens uh the modeling software that's available uh to to contain like you can input so much information like
00:33:30
Bronson
historic LIDAR, ah historic aerial photos back to the 30s, collections of all the boring data that you have from any from any related project in the area.
00:33:46
Bronson
um can and And it's they some of these modeling software packages are better than your PlayStation 5 you know, gaming capacity that the the the layers and the 3D views, you can you know pick up the model, spin it around, cut cross sections in in ways that like the the father geotechnical engineering could never have dreamed of.
00:33:59
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm. Hmm.
00:34:14
Bronson
You know, they had, you know, pencil and paper and had to draw representative cross sections. and And we can take this thing and and run video cameras through hazard zones and look at what the, de like in in model, within the model, measure deformation at specific like points of weakness. or and And so with that modeling, we've drastically, i guess it helps to have more data, but the potential to reduce risk to the owners is amazing.
00:34:47
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:34:50
The Jobs Podcast
Is that, I mean, has AI crept into that? It seems like it's working its way into just about every industry.
00:34:56
Bronson
that is
00:34:57
The Jobs Podcast
is
00:34:58
Bronson
Yeah.
00:34:59
The Jobs Podcast
Is that part of that modeling software ai or is that is that still kind of on the fringes in your line of work?
00:35:04
Bronson
It's so AI is not running the model.
00:35:09
Bronson
ah It's not producing the data that goes into it. You know, it takes it takes, a you know, and a drill rig operator and, you know, like CDL driver.
00:35:09
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:35:20
Bronson
it it takes it takes people to collect geotechnical data
00:35:20
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Sure.
00:35:25
The Jobs Podcast
sure
00:35:25
Bronson
um and And the process, the processing that data gets easier. um The some of the analysis, but I think the, you know, I actually, you know, our company is still where I would say leading edge or we're working on how as a company we want to use AI.
00:35:50
Bronson
And and i I think those conversations are ongoing and it's it's been really interesting to to listen to, know, some some super senior people in the industry ah are are willing and and ready to adapt and use these tools where it makes sense to.
00:36:10
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:10
Bronson
um Some of the, you know, the chat GPT stuff, I watch these chess masters, like they get chat GPT to play these chess matches and it does like ridiculous things in the middle of the game, you know, or, you know, and so we really, I'll speak maybe globally to engineering practice in general is that, you know, our our number one duty is not to cause any harm.
00:36:38
Bronson
You know, we have to we have to consider our designs are going to hold up orphanages.
00:36:38
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:36:42
Bronson
And, you know, so we can't we can't mess around with it. And so the testing and and keeping up with changes and its abilities and adapting it when it's safe to.
00:36:56
Bronson
But those conversations are happening. And, that you know, it's pretty exciting.
00:37:01
The Jobs Podcast
You said the word globally just a second ago, and I'm not asking you to speak for you know other countries, but when you get down to the nuts and bolts, are there a lot of differences in, say, your position in the United States and then someone, say, in Australia or someone in you know the United Kingdom or pick a country in Africa?
00:37:23
The Jobs Podcast
Do you all kind of, if you met with someone that was your counterpart in South Africa, assuming you spoke the same language, are you going to have a lot of similarities or is it going to be like speaking a different language from a work standpoint?
00:37:39
Bronson
Um, man, so think what you're asking about is what I would call the standard of care.
00:37:48
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
00:37:49
Bronson
And, and in North America, well, I should say like United States and Canada have really similar standards of care.
00:37:59
The Jobs Podcast
Right. Okay.
00:38:02
The Jobs Podcast
and okay
00:38:02
Bronson
and I'm not familiar with. ah so the the other the other place that we get standard of care.
00:38:12
Bronson
kind of bounds is like design manuals so like Federal Highway Administration or Army Corps of Engineers.
00:38:24
Bronson
manuals ah that talk about like these are the steps and here's how you know these are established practices for these types of projects in the private sector space well it's standard care driven right so i would say that like designing a well in africa
00:38:31
The Jobs Podcast
OK. Yeah.
00:38:45
Bronson
might look a little different than the processes requiring permits and licensed well drillers, you know environmental controls, erosion and sedimentation, all those things may not apply equally everywhere.
00:38:52
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:39:01
Bronson
It's still good practice, ah but there's there's local standards of care that that may differ from from Northern North America.
00:39:01
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:39:11
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm. Yeah, I can see that for sure. And it also depends on the, ah i guess, if you're in the middle of the jungle in Brazil, they're going to have different building practices than St. Louis or New York City, or it's just, come it's going to be night and day different.
00:39:29
The Jobs Podcast
So.
00:39:29
Bronson
ye What I like about it though, yeah, and the and the physics doesn't change.
00:39:30
The Jobs Podcast
But the scope of the project would be different as well.
00:39:37
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:39:37
Bronson
You know, gravity and water are going to be your biggest enemies ah anywhere you go. And the and and the way, you know, the materials you use or the way you solve it may change.
00:39:53
Bronson
But, um you know, It's in engineering practice. I would say there's in the physics, it's it's gravity and water.
00:40:09
Bronson
In your practice, it's your insurance company and your lawyers.
00:40:12
The Jobs Podcast
well Well, yeah.
00:40:13
Bronson
yeah But ah that's that's why there's a standard of care. You've got to perform. got to perform ah within that acceptable range.
00:40:25
Bronson
there's There's no making it up in this industry. You don't wing it.
00:40:31
The Jobs Podcast
What would you say that you like most about your job? If there was one or two things that get you up out of bed every day?
00:40:35
Bronson
Well, I think there's two. I really enjoy the of the problem. i think there's two i really enjoy that the the solving of the problem
00:40:46
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:40:46
Bronson
ah once Once you solve the problem, it's kind of, okay, yep, we're on this treadmill for a little bit and we gotta to you know we're good we get through it. But the figuring out you know when that light bulb comes off, all right, here's the solution. This is selecting that solution, finding that solution.
00:41:01
Bronson
That's really cool.
00:41:04
Bronson
The other part that I'm kind of mid-career now, and the other part that I get an opportunity to do is finding the problems. So that's that's engaging with people that, weather well, they may not know they need my services.
00:41:14
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:41:26
Bronson
i can maybe connect them to people who can solve their immediate problem.
00:41:26
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:41:31
Bronson
But I'm i'm enjoying the what I would call the business development side of things. So getting out in the community, learning,
00:41:43
Bronson
who the movers and shakers are engaging with municipalities and other like like city engineers or state officials um planning boards and responding to requests for qualifications you know we we have to demonstrate capacity and and capability to do some of these really technical projects And think we're fortunate that we've got the resumes that we can that we can win that work.
00:42:15
Bronson
And i I've enjoyed bringing those kind of projects in.
00:42:20
The Jobs Podcast
you You mentioned when you first started that answer that you get to find the problems and then you get to look for a solution.
00:42:29
Bronson
Yeah.
00:42:29
The Jobs Podcast
and ah And I can see the satisfaction there is that it's not just, well, I just work on TPS reports all day long and I do that for 25, 30 years and then I'm done.
00:42:37
Bronson
but
00:42:39
The Jobs Podcast
Like you have a somewhat regularly fresh crop of problems to solve. And so you get to kind of, each project is different. So you get to stretch your creative juices a little bit and really dig into something that's not every day is different, but you know you're routinely having new challenges.
00:42:59
Bronson
Yeah, yeah. i
00:43:06
Bronson
I shouldn't have glossed over that. i can't I can probably count on one hand the number of projects that I have done twice.
00:43:19
Bronson
Like, there's I'll tell you one. and Like putting in a light standard, it's a really high light standard. which is a pole, like 200 feet in the air, to illuminate these giant rail yards.
00:43:35
Bronson
So there's wind loads, and and each each light standard is a single drilled shaft. It's a single foundation. It requires one bore. there' There's not a lot of data, and it's a really simple field execution. It's like it's a straightforward job.
00:43:52
Bronson
I've done two of them. Like there's in, in what has been? 16, 18 years. ah No, even if it's the same, like a hotel, like generally the same thing, they're never in the same place.
00:44:10
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:44:10
Bronson
And so the ground conditions change and it's yeah. So no two jobs are the same.
00:44:18
The Jobs Podcast
Is there a part of the country, and this may be too oversimplified of a question to ask, but is there one part of the United States that is routinely in your line of work with the soil and the water and the ground and everything the most difficult to work in?
00:44:23
Bronson
So
00:44:27
Bronson
that's the top of the water. The CC1 should have started right at the bottom of the casing. Yeah. that's the top
00:44:37
Bronson
that c one
00:44:38
The Jobs Podcast
Or one of one of two or three that are typically the most difficult to work in.
00:44:39
Bronson
of start right at the bottom facing nineteen yeah but and um
00:44:46
Bronson
With the, man, I don't know. So from a hazard standpoint, the, the you know, earthquake engineering oh is like, St.
00:44:52
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:45:00
Bronson
Louis is not, we're not on the, we're not in the center, but we're we're pretty active in a, for seismic loading.
00:45:04
The Jobs Podcast
Right. Yeah.
00:45:08
Bronson
There are places in eastern, sorry, western Kentucky and western Tennessee that are worse off for potential seismic loading. um I wouldn't say those are like, you just know that's the environment when you, when you start designing there.
00:45:25
Bronson
um As far as difficulty, you know, I, I think it, it comes more to do with what kind of um construction it is.
00:45:35
The Jobs Podcast
and Okay.
00:45:36
Bronson
If it's like a tunnel in sands is really that to me, I think that's, that's pretty crazy.
00:45:45
Bronson
because sands are there's no cohesion at all and if it's below the water table you know it it becomes a little bit more complex in the construction but then you're dealing with contractors that have a lot of experience only doing that and so in I think no matter what it is, and this is this is the best part, is we don't have to be, as a geotech, you don't have to be specialized in such a small niche thing.
00:45:45
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:46:17
Bronson
Like I could probably design a bridge in in the Florida sands or in ah New Orleans mud or on Great Plains, Omaha.
00:46:30
Bronson
um California's a little different because I don't have a California they require a higher standard there.
00:46:36
The Jobs Podcast
of Of course they do. Yeah.
00:46:37
Bronson
Yeah. But, but as as far as the, the, the geologic features, you know, the, the background that I obtained my, through my course of study, yeah ah equips me to deal with just about every landform or geographic feature there is.
00:46:56
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:46:56
Bronson
Now there are people that will specialize in a certain area. And course, in the, in the consulting community who, who, learn who those people are pretty quickly. And, and, and for really complex projects, you know, you need that level of skill.
00:47:13
Bronson
But man, I can't think of a, of a place like I would not want to work there. You know, I'm, I guess I'm not a, I'm not, it's not a fear thing, but, um you know, tunnels are complicated.
00:47:19
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:47:28
Bronson
Highway jobs are complex because there's a lot of details. But it's a pavement section ah that's that's on top of a cut grade or fill grade until you come to a bridge. And then those are really complicated.
00:47:41
Bronson
But there's there's nothing in that, you know, earth construction that you say, man, I wouldn't want to work there. I think and that that gives you that keeps the doors open to go to a lot of different places.
00:47:54
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, sure. yeah Well, it sounds like you enjoy the challenge as well.
00:47:58
Bronson
Yeah. And I've got a, well, to your point, I've got a Google Earth library, like a stack of sites with all the little pins all over everywhere I've ever worked.
00:48:07
The Jobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:48:10
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:48:10
Bronson
And it's, you know, I was trying to think of this. You know, there's not too many places I haven't worked. A couple of three states in New England and Oregon.
00:48:24
Bronson
And think I've been everywhere else.
00:48:26
The Jobs Podcast
Well, that's kind of cool. I mean, you get to travel quite a bit.
00:48:29
Bronson
Yeah.
00:48:31
The Jobs Podcast
what What type of person does well in your line of work? Do you do you have ah typical personality trait? do you have a lot of introverts, extroverts? Obviously, you're going to be mechanically inclined, puzzle oriented, that kind of a thing.
00:48:41
Bronson
know
00:48:45
The Jobs Podcast
I think you have to be just to enjoy your line of work. But is there a certain personality style that you see in a lot of your coworkers or is it all over the map?
00:48:49
Bronson
Yeah.
00:48:55
Bronson
You know, that's
00:48:59
Bronson
like introvert extrovert is probably nine introverts to every one extrovert.
00:49:05
The Jobs Podcast
That one extra is probably really annoying to the group.
00:49:05
Bronson
Um, yeah, that's me.
00:49:07
The Jobs Podcast
Mm hmm.
00:49:11
Bronson
Uh, so trying to, think you know, I think, I think having that analytical interest and, you know, the tinker interest is, is got to be there.
00:49:23
Bronson
um You know, you've got to have some level of ah this really needs to be perfect. And so i I struggle with perfectionism and because I don't think it's the right this right term.
00:49:40
Bronson
But you you have to be able to focus. You know a lot a lot of times throughout the day, I have to schedule work to big blocks of time that I know I can just kind of lock out everything else so that I can complete a task.
00:49:43
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:53
Bronson
Because if you get interrupted, ah you feel like you have to start over. um And so if that's a personality trait, I'm not sure. But it it's ah there's a series of skills that can all be learned.
00:50:08
Bronson
And we started out, I talked about aptitude tests. like That's just really kind of a starting point.
00:50:11
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:50:14
Bronson
I don't think there's a single thing that I do that someone who's curious and who's interested, has the work ethic, ah couldn't learn also to do it.
00:50:28
Bronson
But that enjoyment part, I mean, that's that's got to come from the heart. You got to enjoy working.
00:50:35
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. If you're not happy, it doesn't matter how good you are at it. You're not, you're going to be miserable.
00:50:42
Bronson
right oh and that goes for any job you know and so it i i'm constantly telling people like it's i'm well don't know if it's constant i i i'm passionate about what i do he can't teach that but people can bring their own passion to whatever they apply themselves to it's
00:50:44
The Jobs Podcast
Sure. Sure.
00:50:59
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:51:04
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:51:04
Bronson
And you know we we kind of have a rule in our family. know We're going to be we're gonna be safe and we're going have fun We're not doing those two things. Why are we doing it?
00:51:13
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:51:14
Bronson
And so let's, like, when you're, I think about your listeners maybe out there trying to decide what they want to do with their careers or what they want to do selecting a career.
00:51:26
Bronson
that's It's finding that finding that passion within yourself more than, it like, expecting that passion to come from whatever it is you're doing.
00:51:36
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:51:37
Bronson
Like, you can apply that fuel to anything. Like, what do you want it to be?
00:51:44
The Jobs Podcast
What is the best advice that you could give someone about how to deal with mistakes or failure?
00:51:52
Bronson
Man, that's a great question. Because I think we all struggle with it. We So in in my work, I'll tell you first, the thing that that bothers me the most is like ah when you but when you turn in a oh ah year-end final and like that's the end of the semester, that's your that's your final report, that's your that's your final chemistry test.
00:52:25
Bronson
The semester's over. You earn the grade you earned. You're done. you're you're You're either going to repeat the class or you're going to the next one. We don't get to do that.
00:52:36
Bronson
ah
00:52:37
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:52:37
Bronson
As the project manager or as a a technical lead on a on a project, I fill out, you know, there's a number of of calculation packages and technical writing documents I put together.
00:52:50
Bronson
and you know, I submit that and I'm ready to start working on the next one because I've solved the problem. I got the answers. Here they are. Here's your report. And that report's going to go through at least two sets of hands for a technical review and, you know, maybe a legal review and a proofreading.
00:53:07
Bronson
And there's going to be edits to that. And i I view, like personally, I view those as, well, gosh, I failed here. Or I didn't i didn't write what, you know, what my project manager wanted to see Or, oh, I forgot about that thing that I was supposed to include.
00:53:27
Bronson
um And I had to, I had to, I say I struggle with this really early on. um And i so it still kind of stings, but I get it a little better now.
00:53:39
Bronson
The maturity has improved. But that review and that feedback is the continuing education to be better next time.
00:53:51
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:53:51
Bronson
But it doesn't excuse you from completing it, from from finishing it to 100% polish. you know And it's it's a little bit like wet sanding.
00:54:03
Bronson
think You've already been down to the 800 grit. Now we're going to 2000. Is this really? Yeah. Yeah, we are. We're going to make this thing perfect. And it it takes that senior level review. And so I i look at those, I'll call them failures for the sake of this question, but you look at those and say, okay, now this is better and I've learned something and it took a little longer, but it's it's not the end of the world.
00:54:32
Bronson
The real failures in engineering are, you know, like that bridge collapse in Florida University, Florida State, you know, or, um you know, when someone gets hurt on a construction site, like those kind of failures are far and away not something ever want to be involved right?
00:54:49
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:54:59
Bronson
Right. um So you talk about failure, i think, I think first of the my personal ones, but the reason that we're so stringent on the design documents and the the reports that go out and the communications that go out is to avoid those kinds of failures that lead to loss of life.
00:55:21
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:55:21
Bronson
You know, that's, that's, that's, in my mind, unacceptable. And it happens every day.
00:55:29
The Jobs Podcast
Would you ever have a project? I mean, I would assume that no matter who you are, the person that's been doing it the longest, that's considered quote unquote, the best in your line of work would submit something that someone is going to find
00:55:41
Bronson
right
00:55:46
The Jobs Podcast
a change or an adjustment or a correction in. I just can't see a scenario where every hand that it goes through goes, nope, perfect.
00:55:53
Bronson
so of talking about there now is a little bit of right so what we kind of talking about there now is a little bit of ah risk and contingency so it is there is there some inherent risk to the project or this design you know yes or no and the geotech report should detail what those unknowns are and what options are presented to mitigate them further
00:56:06
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:56:27
Bronson
and then it can be the owner's decision how best to proceed now that they are informed.
00:56:34
The Jobs Podcast
but Okay, how much risk are they going to tolerate?
00:56:34
Bronson
the the Right. The failure on our part is if we don't tell them.
00:56:41
The Jobs Podcast
I see.
00:56:42
Bronson
And that's where, you know, in the design world, you have a ah scope of work and, you know, limitation. There's limitations for that scope of work.
00:56:55
Bronson
And failures that may or may not occur outside that scope of work are not are not and and
00:57:05
Bronson
not inherently our responsibility. If we're aware of them and we can discuss them and alert them, hey, we alert, we are aware of this of this issue, you need to make sure that's checked, right? Or we're not moving forward until this issue is checked.
00:57:23
Bronson
And so there you have mechanisms, you have levers to pull to make sure those issues are addressed. um But to to your point about construction, I think there's always, you know, there may be changes that lead to ah cost savings or a schedule savings or a cost overrun or a schedule overrun.
00:57:42
Bronson
And once you're in construction, you know, the design designs are all sealed and, and you know, the design work is done. some of our services carry over into the construction side and it becomes a negotiation you know if it's an economic decision um hey when we plan the work we bid the work we were going to do this task this way and we figured out since we started that we could do it better if we do it this way can we have your permission to do it this way right and it's it's just a that's a negotiation or a conversation with the owner
00:58:18
Bronson
um Sometimes it leads to a review from the design team to give their input or acknowledge this change is happening. And after that, you're you're off to the races.
00:58:32
The Jobs Podcast
The subject of pay is something that I do my best to address, but I always have to throw out the, the, you know, it just really depends on if you live in California, your salary, base salary, or typical starting salary is going to be a lot higher than it would be here in Missouri, just because the cost of living and everything is just so vastly different.
00:58:54
Bronson
Sure. Yep.
00:58:56
The Jobs Podcast
But, Do you have any rough numbers in your head as far as if you go through the proper education and you're starting out as geotechnical engineer, this is ah ballpark salary that you should expect?
00:59:11
Bronson
Yeah. i I mean, there's a there's a lot of great places to kind of look up that information.
00:59:19
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:59:19
Bronson
It's it's also hard. um
00:59:24
Bronson
um I could probably pull something up here real quick. We we as geotech engineers fall in a similar line of ah salary as a civil engineer.
00:59:41
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:59:41
Bronson
And, and when you, when you start checking those boxes for the salary range, it doesn't get any smaller, it tends to get bigger.
00:59:49
The Jobs Podcast
and Okay. Okay.
00:59:51
Bronson
So I think straight out of school, you know, with a, with a, a master's, um you know, different and and depending on where you are in the country, you know, it, it could be and mid fifties to mid seventies.
01:00:05
The Jobs Podcast
and okay
01:00:06
Bronson
And, you know, if you,
01:00:10
Bronson
I guess there's, I mean, the sky is not the limit. I want to say some of the most senior, the senior people that I know, you know, principals, people with 30 years experience, people that are doing, you know, expert witness testimony on some of those failures we talked about, you know, that's where there their role is at a higher market.
01:00:34
The Jobs Podcast
hmm.
01:00:34
Bronson
an hourly wage rate, you know, they, they can be, you know, in the 300,000 plus.
01:00:42
The Jobs Podcast
okay
01:00:44
Bronson
And, and, the you know, yeah, that's probably a good range.
01:00:49
The Jobs Podcast
So yeah to get your to get your foot in the door, the 50 to 70, with the understanding that with with some time learning, paying your dues, getting some experience, the sky isn't the limit, but you can certainly do quite well financially.
01:01:05
Bronson
Yeah. ah
01:01:06
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:01:06
Bronson
You know, being in a profession, engineering, you've got a pretty good starting salary out the gate. And what you do with your career afterwards, if you if you join an employee-owned company that...
01:01:23
Bronson
you know invest in their employees and mentors, um that it may be worth a little lower starting salary because in a short amount of time, you'll be vested with company stock that goes through the roof, you know, as the company grows.
01:01:40
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:42
Bronson
And, you know, I know some people that have been with a firm for 10 years and there their returns for their shares and what their company growth rate is doing is worth more than their salary.
01:01:57
Bronson
so
01:01:57
The Jobs Podcast
very Very nice.
01:01:58
Bronson
So it's it's not just about the salary. You know, there's a, and and i would I would argue that
01:02:02
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
01:02:06
Bronson
I think the, any candidates interested should look for the type of work that the firm they're interviewing with performs. You know, if, is it, is it, uh, you know, competitive, I'll say, ah you know, bid and selection type work, you know, where bottom dollar wins, or is it sought after expert firm that, um,
01:02:34
Bronson
you know, has to say no to people because their backlog is too big and they couldn't address your your problem. You know, and and certainly that, think I think the trend ah is is towards companies becoming ESOPs or becoming employee-owned because of the compensation difference.
01:02:57
Bronson
I mean, they may not be able, from a cash flow stance, they may not be able to offer the top of the market salaries, but but appropriate levels, but the growth opportunity within the firm and and within the equity of the firm, having having equity in the firm as ah as an engineer is enormous.
01:03:17
Bronson
And so there's...
01:03:18
The Jobs Podcast
it is It's tempting sometimes just to look at the salary as opposed to the benefits package. And there's there's a lot of times where you can get a lot more if you step back and look at all that you get versus just the dollar amount, like health insurance and stock options and all the stuff that you were mentioning.
01:03:24
Bronson
That's right.
01:03:34
Bronson
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah
01:03:37
The Jobs Podcast
Is there something that if you could go back... and this is just a luxury conversation because we ah obviously can't go back in time, but um is there another career that you kind of thought might be of interest to you or was, was what you're doing kind of on your radar from pretty early or that lane? Maybe you didn't even realize it yet, but.
01:03:58
Bronson
Uh, yeah, that's a man. That's a great question. Uh, so I'm, I don't if, I don't know how good this mic is. If you can hear there's a helicopter running outside.
01:04:07
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, I've heard little glimmers and stuff.
01:04:08
Bronson
Um, yeah, so
01:04:09
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:04:11
Bronson
I was, I considered like early, early on, uh, probably when I was a little kid being an airline pilot. And like paleontologist and police officer, firefighter, you know, like and I didn't I didn't explore that whole, whole lot.
01:04:31
Bronson
But I was couple of weeks ago, was talking to this guy. He's army that flew Hueys, you know, for 30 years. And he's out here doing long line helicopter. And I said, what's it take to do that?
01:04:45
Bronson
he says, oh, ah you know, 2000 hours of helicopter time.
01:04:51
The Jobs Podcast
It's a lot.
01:04:52
Bronson
And yeah, when you when you think about like the average instruction hour, know, dollars per hour is probably 550, like $550 an hour for instruction. And you can't get a real paying job or like a living wage job until you have almost 1000 helicopter hours.
01:05:09
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:05:10
Bronson
ah Yeah. So, you know, you want to you probably want to buy a helicopter to get that kind of time. And not everybody's lining up to do that. Uh,
01:05:22
Bronson
i don't and don't I don't want to fly what he's flying, where he's flying it.
01:05:26
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
01:05:26
Bronson
ah you know But that's why he's doing it. and i I'm not. There are some jobs that sound really cool. um you know i I thought about like like finance.
01:05:40
Bronson
um Either like a like a finance consultant. My mom will tell you I should have been a lawyer. in this tend to argue with everybody.
01:05:51
The Jobs Podcast
I think a lot of parents think their kids should get into law just because of the arguing tendencies.
01:05:54
Bronson
Yeah. yeah
01:05:56
The Jobs Podcast
but
01:05:57
Bronson
But yeah, I think the, I think the problem solving nature kind of led me down the engineering path.
01:06:05
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
01:06:05
Bronson
And I think, I think if I, you know, and I enjoy, enjoy agriculture. like I and make wine and cheese at home. And, you know, if you can, I fiddle with all kinds of things that pin interest me.
01:06:19
Bronson
um so that like but to make a career of it to make a make a living at it you know would it would it satisfy me for that that 40 to 60 hour week you know i i think i landed in the right spot and then all the other things can be hobbies
01:06:32
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:06:40
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. That's the nice thing is you find that one thing that you're good at that pays the bills. And then the other things that, you know, I enjoy building things from time to time, but if I had to do it to keep a roof over my head, I'd be homeless.
01:06:51
The Jobs Podcast
So, you know, it's nice to go, well, I'll do that and dabble in that for a little bit, but I'll keep my main gig, you know?
01:06:59
Bronson
Yeah. And once I heard some really good advice, you know, like the younger listeners, I don't know who you've, who you've got, but like that 17, 18 year old is really kind of lost and not sure what to do.
01:07:12
Bronson
Like they just got to get out there and do it just whatever they're interested in, because they've got an enormous amount of time that is like buffer time.
01:07:17
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
01:07:23
Bronson
You can get, you get to make mistakes.
01:07:25
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
01:07:26
Bronson
Um, but this came from a, it was an American airlines captain. And he, he was, he said, basically, if you, if you've got ah you got a student who wants to be a pilot and they just put their nose to grindstone and they, they find a way to pay for it, to get that initial training, they can get through the process of,
01:07:48
Bronson
you know all the ratings, get the hours and start airlining and be in that captain seat at 28 to 30 years old.
01:08:01
Bronson
And those guys, I mean, they're they way above my salary range at 28. You know, so there's, it you don't chase a career for the money, but it supports the decision.
01:08:17
The Jobs Podcast
Sure.
01:08:17
Bronson
You know, I might be the best underwater basket weaver there ever was, but I'm not, I'm not going to keep a roof over my head.
01:08:26
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:08:26
Bronson
But um' if I enjoy doing it, then, you know, my my career supports that lifestyle.
01:08:31
The Jobs Podcast
Sure. Yeah, it's a means to an end. It can bring you joy when you have time, but.
01:08:38
Bronson
Yeah.
01:08:38
The Jobs Podcast
Well, man, I really appreciate your time today.
01:08:38
Bronson
Yeah.
01:08:40
The Jobs Podcast
the The whole geotechnical engineer, that was that was one. you know i I do firemen and police officers and pilots and all the stuff that you'd mentioned, doctors and everything, but this one came out of left field, and I thought, that sounds really interesting. So i yeah I'm grateful for the time today that you took.
01:08:57
Bronson
yeah happy to happy to do it, happy to help and and be involved. And I really really like your approach and and what you're trying to do.
01:09:09
The Jobs Podcast
Thanks.
01:09:09
Bronson
So if you want to shake my network and see what what interesting things come out, let me know.
01:09:18
The Jobs Podcast
Oh yeah, absolutely.
01:09:18
Bronson
there If there's something else you're so someone else you're looking to have your socks knocked off by.
01:09:25
The Jobs Podcast
You don't know Mike Rowe by chance, do you? I keep trying to, oh geez.
01:09:27
Bronson
i I do. of him
01:09:32
The Jobs Podcast
All right. When we're done here, we got to talk. We absolutely have to talk.
01:09:34
Bronson
no no know him no of him can't get him to show my stuff either.
01:09:39
The Jobs Podcast
I know. it Well, he's a popular guy, so you know maybe someday he'll listen to one of my shows.
01:09:42
Bronson
Yeah.
01:09:44
The Jobs Podcast
but
01:09:44
Bronson
Well, you know, if ah if you can come up with a fundraiser that'll put $50,000 towards this charity, he'll show up.
01:09:51
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, I'm having trouble with all all aspects of that. but Well, thank you, sir. I really appreciate it. It was it was really enjoyable talking with you.
01:10:00
Bronson
All right. Thanks again, Tim.