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Just Because You Can, Doesn’t Mean You Should
80 Plays27 days ago
In this thoughtful and laugh-filled episode, Alexis and Brett dive deep into the rhythms of seasonality in horticulture—not just in terms of plant growth, but also the marketing windows and human habits that shape the industry. Fresh off a hectic Mother's Day, they reflect on the exhaustion and triumph that comes with spring’s Super Bowl of floral sales and discuss how local growers plan months (or years!) in advance to hit these narrow seasonal targets.
They explore key calendar touchpoints like Valentine’s Day, July 4th, and fall agritourism season, showing how consumer expectations align with bloom cycles, harvests, and farm labor. With stories of sprouting potatoes, sleepy kittens, and missing appendixes, the episode blends real-life farming humor with insight into the planning behind peonies, pumpkins, and produce.
Listeners are invited to consider the deeper labor and lead time behind seasonal products—and why diversification might be exciting but exhausting. Whether it’s bouquets or jam jars, Brett and Alexis remind us that timing is everything... and sometimes, just because it’s possible doesn’t mean it’s sustainable.
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@l.uky.edu
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Transcript
Weather and Seasonal Reflections
00:00:18
Plant People
Well, hello, friends, and I hope it's a sunny day wherever you are because it is a sunny and warm day.
00:00:23
Brett
bit steamy bit steamy.
00:00:24
Plant People
a bit steamy. I think some thunderstorms are about to roll in here for the next day or two, but, you know, it's nice to see the sun, and i feel like it's been an appropriate spring.
00:00:36
Plant People
It's been a respectful spring. We say that about the rain, like, a lot, but it's been ah correct spring of what we're used to versus, like, the wild temperature spring ah swings we tend to see.
00:00:46
Brett
Alexis liked it. Therefore it is appropriate and correct.
00:00:52
Plant People
Where's the lie though?
00:00:52
Brett
Yeah, that's what I'm coming to understand. I tried to do appropriate and correct behavior as much as I can.
00:00:58
Plant People
i I'm by the book, ah so...
00:01:03
Plant People
if and anybody who knows me goes, wait, what?
00:01:06
Brett
Which what book?
00:01:07
Plant People
Who? Which book exactly are we referring to?
00:01:10
Brett
What is the book that we're talking about?
00:01:11
Plant People
the ones the plants also read or pretend that they read, right? So...
00:01:16
Brett
We are not and I'll note we are not talking over Jessica and Ray, though that would not be much of a stretch.
Hosts' Dynamic Without Jessica and Ray
00:01:22
Plant People
Ah, yeah.
00:01:23
Brett
They are they're not here um for for various reasons, and we are here and we're just going to we're just going to but we will we will rock you with some discussion coming up.
00:01:29
Plant People
What up?
00:01:34
Plant People
if We will riff at what we are good at.
00:01:36
Brett
What's what's new in your in your neck of the woods, Alexis?
00:01:41
Plant People
Um, well, uh, from a more personal farm thing, I know we talk from it more of a professional standpoint most of the time, but
Mother's Day Preparations and Aftermath
00:01:51
Brett
You're a professional farmer.
00:01:51
Plant People
it's, it's on.
00:01:53
Plant People
Yeah. I'm a pro well, I'm just mean like a UK professional, but it is on topic today for what we're going to talk about.
00:01:56
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:01:59
Plant People
So, uh, from a farmer point point of view, we just came off of mother's a day ah weekend slash week slash year of my life is what it feels like ah because we plan so far in advance. But yeah, so just coming down off of the high slash roller coaster of that. And I want to say for if any of you are farmers who, whether it's Mother's Day or any other event where you kind of plan for a long period of time,
00:02:26
Plant People
And then it's go, go, go, you know, 4 a.m., 5 a.m. till 11 p.m. every day for a week type situation. It's okay to not know how to feel the week after.
00:02:37
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:02:38
Plant People
um Coming down off of that and then going back to like things are normal. Things still have to get done. All you want to do is rest. But like you still have the everyday norms of orders and planting and stuff.
00:02:50
Plant People
you know yada yada yada. I just wanted to to throw a little you know lifeline out there and say it's okay. Things will reorient themselves in the world and if a couple plates fall, some balls drop, ah it it's all gonna be fine. So you did great.
00:03:08
Brett
As Tom Petty said, it'll all work out.
00:03:10
Plant People
It'll all work out. It always does, yeah.
00:03:12
Brett
Eventually. um So did you celebrate? Did you celebrate the end of Mother's Day?
00:03:18
Plant People
I was a potato on Sunday and it was glorious.
00:03:20
Brett
Wow. Like a costume kind of party of one.
00:03:24
Plant People
I was a spud. ah
00:03:25
Brett
These are my eyes.
00:03:28
Plant People
i ah Which my potatoes are sprouting, fun fact. You brought them up. But no, I just, i well, you made it.
00:03:33
Brett
You brought it up.
00:03:35
Brett
It's fine.
00:03:36
Plant People
I thought about eyes on my potatoes.
00:03:36
Brett
It's fine. It's fine. It's fine.
00:03:38
Plant People
But ah yes, I was a couch potato. i um I don't like to say I rot couch rotted anymore. I prefer to say i'm I fermented on the couch because, you know, fermenting makes everything better.
00:03:49
Brett
it
00:03:49
Plant People
So I love it.
00:03:50
Brett
It's restorative, it's transformational, it's probiotic, professional biotic.
00:03:53
Plant People
Love it. All about it. Probiotic. I probiotic. So that was, it was lovely. i think I needed one more day, but the farm ah orders had to go out. So, ah but I did get one full day of being sweatpants. The only thing I had to do was water the greenhouse, which, you know, is okay. And that's soothing. and I don't mind to do that.
00:04:14
Plant People
And the peonies wait for no man or woman. So, or perand so man per per San.
00:04:19
Brett
woman, man
00:04:22
Plant People
ah So we did, I did,
00:04:23
Brett
no human.
00:04:24
Plant People
I know he man, I did have to harvest that morning, but very briefly and only the minimum. And then I was in sweatpants the rest of the day. So that was my celebration. It was glorious.
00:04:33
Brett
That's awesome. That's great. Well, you also celebrated this week. You've got a new friend there in your office with you.
New Office Kitten and Personal Anecdotes
00:04:41
Plant People
Oh, yeah. If you're I would show i can't. Will my thing go down? I can't show you. Well, I'll show you before the end if you're watching on online. But there is a sweet little baby kitten in my arms right now when she is asleep and I shall not wait.
00:04:55
Brett
TBD on name.
00:04:56
Plant People
ah TBD on name. We had to let the husband pick that out because he's going to call her something no matter what I call her. He will come up with his own name. So it's just better to.
00:05:05
Brett
Alexis's husband is like the cutest cat person. He loves cats. It's so cute.
00:05:10
Plant People
We ah I told you I've probably told you guys about the cat at our tax lady's office. um Well, I don't know if I've talked about it on the pod.
00:05:16
Brett
I don't know if you talk about it on the pod or not.
00:05:18
Plant People
There's a my our tax lady has a cute, very small, like it's an adult cap, a very small. And apparently she's not very friendly to most people. But of course, she loves my husband. And ah so every year we go, um she crawls up into his lap. and lays there during our taxes and just, I guess, soothes him during tax time.
00:05:39
Plant People
And we last time we went, he was sitting there. And the man who hates taking pictures with me in general for pretty much everything except for maybe fishing looks over at me with a big smile and he goes, are you going to take my annual cat picture?
00:05:54
Plant People
And so I did. And it's the biggest grin, bigger grin than I think any of our wedding photos.
00:05:57
Brett
Oh.
00:05:59
Plant People
But ah that's okay because he's happy.
00:06:04
Brett
So he has a knack for appealing, appealing to hard, hard to cajole small adults.
00:06:05
Plant People
Who's a cat whisperer?
00:06:14
Brett
A cat, a cat, a cat, a cat.
00:06:15
Plant People
yeah.
00:06:16
Brett
I don't know.
00:06:16
Plant People
yeah
00:06:16
Brett
not talking about anyone.
00:06:17
Plant People
Not me, not anybody in particular, yeah.
00:06:20
Brett
Yeah, well, I celebrated ah Mother's Day by almost rupturing my appendix and then subsequently having it removed by some medical professionals. Uh, so that was pretty cool.
00:06:31
Plant People
Woohoo!
00:06:34
Brett
My mom got to drive to Lou or to Lexington to see me instead of me taking the flowers I had for her to Louisville.
00:06:34
Plant People
Your mom was like, yes.
00:06:40
Brett
Um, so that was cool. And ever since then, I've just been just wandering through life. Um,
00:06:49
Plant People
Appendix free. One organ short.
00:06:50
Brett
But, but it, yeah, yeah. You picked up a cat this week. I lost one appendix this week. It's just the way of things. It's like Indiana Jones with the little golden monkey and the sandbag.
00:06:58
Plant People
One in, one out.
00:07:01
Brett
It's just like that.
00:07:04
Plant People
Yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense.
00:07:05
Brett
But it did not prevent us from brainstorming a fun idea for this episode.
00:07:11
Plant People
We think so.
00:07:12
Brett
You will have fun listening or else. um
00:07:16
Plant People
Threat.
00:07:17
Brett
I'm just thinking about, I think about seasonality, this concept that lots of people talk about in local food and local agriculture, learning how to eat seasonally, purchase seasonally, ah December fresh red rose, not probably coming from the state of Kentucky, a ripe red vine, ripened tomato, likely not coming out, you know, for your New Year's Day bolognese that you're making.
00:07:40
Plant People
um
00:07:43
Brett
But there's a other component to seasonality and the flow of things that partially reflects the seasonality of of production and seasons and stuff like that. but it also reflects our social
Seasonality in Agriculture
00:07:54
Brett
seasonality.
00:07:54
Brett
And so it's like this kind of marketing and markets side. What kind of got me thinking about it initially was ah seeing Alexis and the other flower farmers that we know and work with ah just unravel, you know, over the last few weeks leading up to Mother's Day.
00:08:09
Brett
It's a really fun time where we celebrate celebrate mothers.
00:08:11
Plant People
unravel feels accurate
00:08:15
Brett
And it's ah it's a big day in the floral industry in general. And so
00:08:20
Plant People
we call it our super bowl like like that's like the word used in the floral industry it's the super bowl hmm
00:08:22
Brett
Yeah.
00:08:25
Brett
And so in the same way that the literal Super Bowl, I think, is the day when the most wings are eaten in the United States, and therefore the chicken industry literally plans around that and prepares for that.
00:08:37
Brett
The horticulture industry has some of these demarcation points throughout the year. And I just thought some of them that we I was going to run through the list and then maybe we'll take a little closer look at some of the particular touch points throughout the year.
00:08:47
Plant People
Love it.
00:08:49
Brett
that sound all right to you?
00:08:50
Plant People
Sounds great.
00:08:52
Brett
So and just go so i'm going to start with our, you know, all time is arbitrary. so I'm going to start January 1. The first kind of big day is Valentine's Day.
00:09:02
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:09:03
Brett
Do you have any, like, I think those that's ah that is the time of year when a lot of the CSAs are targeting to really get folks to sign up.
00:09:12
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:13
Brett
You know, Community Supported Agriculture, the the subscription-based service. There's a lot of preparation going. It's right in the heart, or maybe a little bit late, actually, into the unofficial gardener holiday of seed catalog season.
00:09:24
Plant People
yeah yeah
00:09:25
Brett
um But any other, you know, Valentine's Day? Is there any bold moves that people will try to make in the flower world?
00:09:31
Plant People
Yeah. In the flower world, a lot of growers are switching to hydroponic. I say a lot. I mean, growers who are wanting to switch are so are going to doing some like hydroponic tulip production ah to hit the Valentine's Day market. So that's definitely been a growing trend.
00:09:48
Plant People
And then thinking about value-added stuff that people will do, you know if they're doing goat's milk stuff or they're doing jams jams and jellies, like um which might seem kind of random, but you know you give chocolates for Valentine's Day. So you give like a box of you know, chocolates and, uh, with, you know, some good jam and, uh, some, you know, goat's milk soap or something like that. So I think people are offering that as well as, um, maybe not having a product, but a lot of people target Valentine's day is like a CSA, um,
00:10:18
Plant People
push and so trying to get that you know those funds in early so that they can purchase some things is always helpful but it's nice you know they say okay you're not getting a bouquet now but here you can give um your human your person a box of strawberries and a voucher for you know a six-week csa that starts in april or something and um that's been pretty good from a marketing standpoint
00:10:42
Brett
So next year in lieu of a box of chocolates, Annie is going to get a jar of jelly and a spoon.
00:10:48
Plant People
Honestly, will she be mad? Like she won't.
00:10:49
Brett
Say go off. Here you go.
00:10:51
Plant People
Sauerkraut. give her a jar, a big old tub.
00:10:53
Brett
ah jar of sauerkraut and a jar of jam. It feels very old world. Show her parents that I am a good husband that I can provide.
00:10:58
Plant People
I'm here for it.
00:11:01
Brett
ah
00:11:01
Plant People
You're providing.
00:11:02
Brett
I can provide these nutrients to even during the darkest of days. ah So, you know, the next, I guess, through spring, there's various things coming out. That's kind of the development of the early season, both for vegetables and for ah flowers and for a whole lot of other stuff.
00:11:19
Brett
And then we talked about Mother's Day and we're going to come back to that in terms of for the flowers to just think about what was the actual when did when did Mother's Day prep actually begin?
00:11:27
Plant People
but when did mother's day start
00:11:30
Brett
ah may It may help to uncover why it felt like the year of the mother in the floral calendar. um But Mother's Day also, this this time of year tends to be when ah kind of, I would say, early to late May, sorry, early to mid-May.
Timing Planting and Market Influences
00:11:46
Brett
when stuff starts warming up. It's when we can put out our tomato plants. It's when people like to overhaul their landscaping.
00:11:51
Plant People
Betting plans.
00:11:54
Brett
And really interestingly, there for for a lot of our large bedding plant producers, so things like the impatiens and the petunias and the geraniums and other stuff like that, a lot of the annuals and things that go into beds,
00:11:59
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:12:06
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:12:07
Brett
ah it it's like the big time of year because and some of some of the large ones will will sell a huge volume of the amount that they're going to make in the course of a year during this window of time.
00:12:10
Plant People
Yeah.
00:12:18
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:12:20
Brett
So if every Saturday is not very good weather and people don't want to go to the garden center and get you know spring fever and buy a bunch of stuff for that that six, eight week period, it can be kind of bad, ah bad news.
00:12:33
Plant People
Yeah, because that stuff is, and I mean, living plants definitely have more of a window, but it's still in a way perishable because if those things get too big, you're also spending a lot more money to grow, you know, keep growing them for weeks because they didn't sell.
00:12:48
Plant People
um So yeah, it's even with live plants that are, you know, in a pot, it can be costly to have to keep them for, you know, another three weeks because it's been rainy. Mm-hmm.
00:12:59
Brett
Yeah. and I mean, we're talking hanging baskets. We're talking about stuff for the planters. We're talking about stuff for in-ground beds um and even a little bit in the um the perennial plant world.
00:13:11
Brett
you know that this is ah I think that that kind of goes into fall as well.
00:13:12
Plant People
Yeah.
00:13:15
Brett
um But it it really is a huge time of year where we can grow petunias and and and impatience all summer long, but people really think about those things in terms of this time of year. And so as a result,
00:13:31
Brett
it's a It's a market driven seasonality to that industry that is, you know, it's a really, it's kind of interesting.
00:13:35
Plant People
Yeah. yeah
00:13:39
Brett
We'll talk about another one of those here in just a few minutes. So we're going to come back to Mother's Day from the floral perspective. um But I think ah also shout out to veggie transplants for this time of year, because that's what a lot of people are are also getting those to put in their veggie gardens.
00:13:50
Plant People
Yeah.
00:13:54
Brett
And then we have this period over May, June, where for me, at least time seems to hit warp speed and oh my gosh, I can't believe it's almost the solstice.
00:13:59
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:14:02
Brett
Oh, there went the solstice.
00:14:04
Plant People
and hu
00:14:04
Brett
And now here we are at 4th of July. i think this is another inflection point of the year.
00:14:09
Plant People
know
00:14:09
Brett
what do you What do you think about in terms of the the market side for specialty crop products in July?
00:14:15
Plant People
Yeah, when I was working as an agent and helping with a multi-farm CSA that had veggie as well as dairy and ah meat products, 4th of July kind of, even though it was a CSA where people purchased way ahead, see ah even the growers planned around 4th of July being something that they wanted to really do up for that week for their CSA and they had more like meat options available. and They had their goal was sweet corn for 4th of July because you know people were grilling out. That's when a lot of people have parties and get togethers and pool parties is kind of the week of or leading around. There's like you know 14 day period kind of all right around that area where people
00:14:57
Plant People
tend to be home and doing stuff, you know, they're probably home from vacation. And so I think that that is another touch point for people who are doing, you know, market garden size, the livestock people wanting to have things processed by then.
00:15:12
Plant People
um You know, you can even be doing like baked goods, people who are, you know, maybe doing strawberries in the spring, and they made, you know, jams or different things, and they're going to put them into cakes and cookies and have those available at the market for those Fourth of July parties. And so I definitely think it's a summer touch point for a lot of growers because they just kind of expect more people to want stuff um during that time.
00:15:35
Plant People
What have you seen in your experience like with farmers markets and stuff?
00:15:38
Brett
I think that's that's exactly right on. I think i think they often the around those times, not to say people go completely buck wild with their spending, but for parties, they might be willing to spend a little bit more, get something a little bit special.
00:15:46
Plant People
Sure.
00:15:49
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:15:50
Brett
they're going to be buying a little bit larger volume.
00:15:53
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:15:53
Brett
They may be feeling patriotic and want to support their local farmer.
00:15:57
Plant People
Right.
00:15:57
Brett
um But I would say all around that 4th of July, and it might be several weeks earlier or later, depending on the year, depending on the ah crop and the area, but
00:16:04
Plant People
Weather.
00:16:06
Brett
thinking about the kind of first tomato, first field tomato, the first sweet corn. People don't get as excited about watermelon. I get pretty excited about melons.
00:16:15
Plant People
i Which is so weird because everyone seems to want it, but they don't seem as excited about it.
00:16:19
Brett
Yeah, it's not like, ah I need that.
00:16:21
Plant People
It's the first watermelon.
00:16:21
Brett
um I also think of July, late June, early or late June into July is kind of the first window where a few of our local apple varieties start to pop off some of those June apples and
00:16:32
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:16:34
Brett
um And it's just, it's also like the countdown in my mind. It's also tends to be this June, July window is berry season. um So that's, that's more, i like that because that tends to be that the, the production window is so narrow that we can form around that in the local food production economy.
00:16:55
Brett
compared to some of these other things where we're we're trying to, you know, hit the, you can grow flowers pretty much almost year round, but Mother's Day is a special day.
00:17:01
Plant People
Right. Right.
00:17:03
Brett
Berries, it's like, you got this window, those flowers flowered, they got pollinated, they formed berries, get them if you want them, otherwise you're out of luck,
00:17:08
Plant People
Yeah.
Peak Market Months and Consumer Behavior
00:17:10
Brett
sorry.
00:17:10
Plant People
See you next year. Yep.
00:17:12
Brett
So that June kind of the blueberry into Blackberry season is another part of this year that I think um is is pretty exciting and it it tends to draw people in. and i just think of a lot of of our direct markets are at the probably at the peak of what they're going to have as far as variety goes.
00:17:26
Plant People
Yep.
00:17:30
Brett
around this time.
00:17:31
Plant People
Yep.
00:17:31
Brett
um
00:17:31
Plant People
yeah
00:17:32
Brett
You might have a little bit of the cooler season stuff that's still hanging on or even a little bit that you've planted late that um maybe just coming on.
00:17:37
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:17:40
Brett
there's There's a whole other second act to the farmer's market and other direct market season in in the fall in the fall where you still have summer stuff and you start getting some really good fall stuff. But
00:17:51
Plant People
It's interesting that, sorry, well, before we jump to the next, how it's it's the inverse in like the floral bedding plant, basically the visuals, where I want to say like, quote unquote, like the visuals, um where, so, you know, if they're having people over, they've probably already planted all those annuals from that early spring.
00:18:09
Plant People
um They've gone out, maybe they've planted their own little cut flower garden and they're not buying flowers as much, but So it feels like the inverse ah for that season. It's like flowers are in in the spring, out in the summer, back in in the fall type situation.
00:18:25
Plant People
And I always find that interesting to see happen because it's the opposite for like tomatoes and and things like that. It just depends, I think, on where people's priorities are. Mm-hmm.
00:18:37
Brett
Yeah, and even with some of the markets, um so some of the farmers markets, for instance, so with the Center for Crop Diversification, we work with a lot of farmers markets across the state. Some of them in larger population areas, ah they will have growers who will have produce in some cases year round.
00:18:54
Brett
But like, let's just say from March 1st through November 1st, they will have produce.
00:18:54
Plant People
10, no. Yeah.
00:19:00
Brett
Other markets, that in either case, the epicenter of the farmer's market year is around fourth of July.
00:19:07
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:19:08
Brett
So there's some markets that are only really open June, July, and maybe a little bit of August.
00:19:12
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:19:13
Brett
There's other ones that are open May, June, July, little September.
00:19:16
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:19:16
Brett
There's others that are open again. And so I just think of it like as the kind of the epicenter, the peak. It also tends, at least for me, to be when the plants go from like a lot of those summary type plants go from like their ascent and their youthful.
00:19:32
Plant People
Yeah, it's like the bell curve. yeah
00:19:34
Brett
Yeah. To like, Oh, it's, it's like, i don't know, 37 or something.
00:19:38
Plant People
Yeah.
00:19:38
Brett
They ate for humans. It's like, Oh, I was on my way up and now I'm just going to try to gracefully.
00:19:41
Plant People
but Now my knees are starting to hurt.
00:19:42
Brett
I'm going to try to gracefully he go down the rest of the curve here.
00:19:47
Plant People
Yeah, the disease starts to sit in.
00:19:47
Brett
Uh, we'll say 40, we'll give us both some time and say 40 about that. Um,
00:19:51
Plant People
Thank you. I appreciate that
00:19:52
Brett
But but there's this interesting dynamic where, ah in my opinion, maybe the best time of year for produce in Kentucky. I'm curious what your take is on this.
00:20:03
Brett
Is September.
00:20:05
Plant People
oh yeah because like the i swear the few cooler nights i swear make a huge difference in like taste and like you said you're getting that you're bridging that where you can have like a fresh tomato and then like some kale sat like on a fresh kale salad you know what i mean like those types of uh instances okay
00:20:21
Brett
You could do a kale salad, grilled broccoli, grilled peppers next to the grilled broccoli and tomatoes on a nice burger with, you know, whatever, you know.
00:20:31
Plant People
Yep.
00:20:32
Brett
and And so, however, this is yet again an example where the seasonality is determined not just by our plant zone and weather and all those things, though that does really impact it.
00:20:32
Plant People
Totally.
00:20:41
Plant People
Our weather and yeah. Yeah.
00:20:45
Brett
There's nasty little thing that happens in August called back to school.
00:20:52
Brett
And I'm telling you, it is it is one of those moments. it's It's not entirely like the end of farmer's market season. There's a lot of folks who still go, but it does radically change the dynamic of a lot of our markets and the number of people who attend them.
00:21:01
Plant People
Sure.
00:21:08
Brett
And it tends to drop off.
00:21:08
Plant People
Well, but all and also the growers, you know, a lot of they have kids and the kids back, you know, soccer games have started back up or what, although I feel like sports are year round now. And if you're a parent of a kid with a year round sport, I am so sorry.
00:21:21
Plant People
um But ah yeah, I mean, they're, you know, they get busy. And so the amount that they can plant and take care of and having a Saturday open to go to market is also changed. So it's kind of from both ends, but definitely the consumer is just busy.
00:21:36
Brett
And so I think ah we real quick shout out or the opposite of a shout out, negative, shameful shout out to the month of August. if the If the Mother's Day window unravels you as far as tasks go climactically, August, if you're in agriculture outside, even if you're doing all the smart things, it will...
00:21:51
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:58
Plant People
Yeah.
00:22:00
Brett
It'll wear you down in Kentucky.
00:22:00
Plant People
it yeah
00:22:02
Brett
that's In Kentucky, it's August.
00:22:02
Plant People
ah
00:22:03
Brett
in the In further south, it's July through September.
00:22:03
Plant People
yeah
00:22:07
Plant People
and When, ah yeah, if you're in Kentucky in August and you know a farmer, it doesn't matter what they farm. I don't care if it's row crop. I don't care what it is. If they farm in general, just, you know, maybe maybe bring them a cookie or, you know, a really nice cold glass of water at some point and just be like, hey, thinking of you, bud, it's all going to be okay. ah Fall is almost here because they are dead. Like you said, no matter if they've...
00:22:34
Plant People
planned or if they're marketing a lot in the summer you know or not but the plants are still probably in the ground in the summer and have to be taken care of and that's enough you've probably we've talked about that on some other episodes of like the draws of august
00:22:45
Brett
Yes.
00:22:51
Brett
Yes, but August gives rise to September. We said, in my opinion, for annual production, at least one of the best times of year. But September and moving even into October, yes, we are back at school.
00:23:04
Brett
Maybe some of the markets are cooling down. But one of the markets market types is just heating up.
00:23:11
Plant People
Oh yeah.
Agritourism and Fall Traditions
00:23:12
Brett
And that is put on your flannels. Uh, don't have to wash your hair. We're going to a farm.
00:23:20
Plant People
Put on your hat, your cute hat.
00:23:21
Brett
Yeah. And get ready for agritourism season. Get ready for apple picking. Get ready for corn maze.
00:23:26
Plant People
um
00:23:27
Brett
Get ready for donuts, apple cider.
00:23:28
Plant People
a
00:23:30
Plant People
Yes.
00:23:31
Brett
Get ready for all of that stuff.
00:23:32
Plant People
Apple cider slushies. Yum.
00:23:35
Brett
Um, if your kids in school back to school, yes, but maybe they will go to a pumpkin patch to pick up a little pumpkin.
00:23:41
Plant People
Oh, 100% believe that.
00:23:44
Brett
Locally grown pumpkin. So as far as the market side of things, I saw, so I was looking up, I saw some estimates that 80%, something around 80% of the fresh market of pumpkins in the United States is sold in the month of October.
00:23:58
Plant People
oh hundred percent believe that like
00:24:00
Brett
I'm kind of surprised that it's not higher and it probably is. I don't know. That was probably just a, one of those nerd academics being conservative, but, um, Yeah, so so you you think about pumpkins, we think about them, often people think about them as a commodity, but they are a product that has been growing on a vine that was transplanted back way, but now that that's kind of the idea of kind of what we're getting at, and we're going to come back around to that.
00:24:20
Plant People
Early June,
00:24:23
Brett
So I won't stay too too long on this we can get to the little bit slightly deeper dive, but all of that fall item decor, all the corn shocks, all the bales of straw, all of the ornamental gourds,
00:24:32
Plant People
yeah.
00:24:37
Brett
um All that stuff is kind of, again, we we probably or we definitely could produce pumpkins that would come out in August, September, October, November even.
00:24:39
Plant People
Yep.
00:24:47
Plant People
August. Totally.
00:24:52
Brett
and But we don't.
00:24:52
Plant People
The value is, you know, basically zero November 1st.
00:24:54
Brett
The value goes way, way down just because of those market dynamics.
00:24:57
Plant People
Yeah.
00:24:58
Brett
And it's it's just a reality. that you know Try to sell corn shock on August first
00:25:02
Plant People
A mom, a potted mom. Yeah. Yep.
00:25:06
Brett
Yeah. Moms is a great example of another one of those products that, you know, it's not necessarily just October per se, but it is like very much that fall window.
00:25:12
Plant People
September. Yeah.
00:25:16
Brett
And there's all kinds of prep work that's ahead of that. We, as consumers, or even as, you know, as marketers thinking about, okay, we, you just get us the product and we will market it.
00:25:26
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:25:26
Brett
There's a whole lot of things that happened before that, that, that but we'll talk about, but this weird dynamics where these strange little traditions of like Halloween, like we have Halloween now for all of these weird geopolitical reasons across a long period of time.
00:25:36
Plant People
and
00:25:42
Brett
And the result of that is try to sell a pumpkin on November 1st. See what happens.
00:25:48
Plant People
yeah Unless it's a pie pumpkin, yank, it's not going anywhere.
00:25:52
Brett
yeah
00:25:53
Plant People
And that's probably why pumpkin pie became a thing because someone was like, I got all these pumpkins I didn't sell and like brilliant marketing right there.
00:26:01
Brett
And so then the last stretch of the season will event will lead us back around to what we talked about in January. So it's the Thanksgiving era of the year. um I'm in my Thanksgiving era.
00:26:13
Brett
And that's ah again, i i think of that as the that we have certainly a lot of high tunnels and other types of production systems that are able to extend the season so that you could have some.
Holiday Preparations and Marketing Challenges
00:26:24
Brett
you know, nice greens or spinach for a spinach casserole for Thanksgiving. Or you might be able to have, even in some years, you might be able to have a couple of tomatoes that, you know, you're able to nurse along until almost around then, or or you pick them and then let them ripen.
00:26:34
Plant People
potatoes, different things like that.
00:26:38
Brett
um But I also think of it as value-added season.
00:26:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:26:44
Brett
And that's not a new thing.
00:26:44
Plant People
Mm. Mm-mm.
00:26:46
Brett
Canning, fermenting, freezing, all of that, except all of those things, maybe with the exception of fermenting, all of those things didn't necessarily happen in at you know in November.
00:26:57
Plant People
oh They've been happening all summer long.
00:27:00
Brett
Yeah. and And I think, yeah, that that's again what we're we're trying to get at here is just long term, my vision for this conversation is we might think about developing it into some graphics or something that might show.
00:27:12
Brett
So you want to market here.
00:27:15
Plant People
Yeah.
00:27:16
Brett
and now at this particular time, this particular product, here's all the things you're going to need to do you know a year ahead of this.
00:27:22
Plant People
Leading up to it, right.
00:27:23
Brett
So for instance, um with the bedding plant world that we talked about that has that really narrow window in May.
00:27:32
Plant People
Correct.
00:27:33
Brett
So they they, now this will come out probably toward the tail end of that window, maybe still somewhat in the middle, but closer to the end. So once they do that, yes, they are still going to produce some stuff and put some out stuff out and sell, but they're already thinking about 2026.
00:27:50
Plant People
correct
00:27:50
Brett
They're already trying to get their media, get their plastic trays, get their contracts set up, all that kind of stuff. um and And that's something that if you haven't done this before, or you're a consumer and you're not you know you haven't really thought about this much before, you don't necessarily think about that for forward progress. And we've we've had some recent conversations with folks about tariff impacts and imports and all this kind of stuff. and And one of the big things we think about with the tariff, potential tariff impacts is the cost of the inputs.
00:28:19
Brett
But the reality is for some people, they aren't going to buy their inputs until January of 2026.
00:28:27
Plant People
Right.
00:28:27
Brett
And so who knows how that's going to happen. but Other people are buying them now. Some people will be buying them in the fall. um So anyway, it's just the this idea of like, we think of seasonality as this harmony with nature.
00:28:39
Brett
But if you are trying to do commercial horticulture, it's harmony with nature while also respecting these human these human milestones.
00:28:43
Plant People
Harmony with the market. Right. Yeah. I mean, ah you know, we didn't you didn't we didn't mention Christmas necessarily, but, you know, your if you're going to make wreaths, for example, or garland or anything like that with live product, yeah, it's probably not getting harvested until around Thanksgiving. Yeah.
00:29:05
Plant People
but you're ordering it in August and trying to basically assume how many you're going to sell because you can't, it doesn't matter if you put it out. Very few people are going buy pre-order a Christmas wreath, right? In August.
00:29:19
Plant People
So you're kind of going to have to just figure that out based on maybe something you've done in the past or, you know, you'll never get it exactly perfectly right. I don't think. um So you're pre-ordering that in August ah You know, it's being cut in November ah and pretty much, you know, we say for, you know, in in that realm, pretty much anything after December 5th from a strictly, you know, um ah wreath or what's the word I'm looking at, like the decoration.
00:29:51
Brett
Décor, yeah.
00:29:52
Plant People
Yeah, from a decor standpoint, at least, your market is done really by, you know, we say December 1st, maybe you push it to the 5th. But if you don't have that stuff in people's hands and out, you know, to see them by really that first kind of weekend, so to speak, you know, if you go do a Christmas market or something like that and can sell them there, like you're done. So your market window, because nobody's really going to buy one before Thanksgiving. So really, you have the day after Thanksgiving till...
00:30:18
Plant People
what, December 1st, 2nd maybe, ah to get that in front of people and in their hands.
00:30:20
Brett
Yeah.
00:30:25
Plant People
um So that window is really small ah from that point of view. ah just, and then, you know, you maybe have the month, again, you have the Black Friday till mid-December to sell a CSA as like a gift because usually those are more expensive.
00:30:41
Plant People
And so if you're wanting to sell a CSA, you know, you kind of have to get that in front of people before they go buy, you know, little smaller things. And then there's not enough money to, you know, maybe give someone $150 voucher. fifty dollars csa voucher Um, so yeah, the window there is really small as well, but, uh, yeah, thinking of like how people think about that. It's easy to talk about it from like a flat cut flower perspective, but you know, I like the bedding plant one just like to, to go back on that because it's such a big thing where they're making most of their money within that six week period.
00:31:14
Plant People
And you know, the soil and the media, yeah, that all might be bought a year in advance, but if we just even think about the plants themselves, um, Most of those places are, ah those large operations are buying in what they call calloused cuttings.
00:31:29
Plant People
And so those, the there's another operation that starts that stuff from seed or from tissue culture, and they grow them up just big enough, and then they take them as a cutting. They leave them in a very specific kind of humidity chamber to callous over that edge so that they can be shipped ah kind of overnight or within a couple days.
00:31:49
Plant People
And then
00:31:49
Brett
Very brief aside, I selfishly would like for Alexis to lead us on a podcast propagation series.
00:31:58
Plant People
I would selfishly love that.
00:31:59
Brett
W's in the chat if you want Alexis to do that.
00:32:03
Plant People
Comment with five stars that you want propagation, but that was my...
00:32:06
Brett
I just think it's really, there's, the propagation is both, I find, is like more simple and more complicated than you think.
00:32:13
Plant People
It's an art form. It's truly an art form. like
00:32:15
Brett
And maybe maybe we could get Sherry on to talk about you know some some of her trick tips and tricks.
00:32:18
Plant People
Yes, oh my gosh. The woman who taught me everything that I know about propagation... um
00:32:24
Brett
Sherry Dutton, right?
00:32:24
Plant People
and can she can she's an yep sari dutton she will be ah really oh yeah the dutton family
00:32:28
Brett
i've been I've been watching a lot of clips from Yellowstone, which this is the Dutton family. And I was like, am I just making up the Dutton thing? No, Sherry Dutton. All right.
00:32:35
Plant People
Yeah, she will be a new extension associate. So we're going have, we'll have her on ah to talk about that, but she is brilliant. But anyways, not to like get over it, but so they're going to get that stuff in and let's say they're trying to target that, you know, Derby Day, Mother's Day, like that's the prime window, maybe a week before that's kind of, you know, right in that area.
00:32:54
Plant People
They're getting those shipped into them probably around February and they're sticking them and you know pumping them up and getting them ready to go you know January, February for that six week window. And then they're going to start with poinsettias and mums if that's like kind of what their operation does.
00:33:12
Plant People
And poinsettias or something they're going to start in like August. ah and they're going to do kind of the same thing over again. But then all the all the things they needed just to grow those items are ordered a year in advance.
00:33:23
Plant People
And maybe they've even ordered those cuttings a year in advance because they have to be grown from seed or from tissue culture. And so it's...
00:33:32
Brett
That's a whole component of the, like, ah particularly of the nursery and cut flower world, I think.
00:33:37
Plant People
Yeah.
00:33:38
Brett
I mean, it's it is for other places too, but is the sourcing of the plant material itself?
00:33:38
Plant People
Yeah.
00:33:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:33:44
Brett
Because really what you're actually dealing with is like two or sometimes three or more nesting growing years in a row. that like the plants got wiped out, there was no seed last year.
00:33:56
Brett
And as a result, you have no seed this year or the plants got some sort of problem and the bulbs that they produced that you're going to then plant can't be used for some reason.
00:33:56
Plant People
ah Yeah.
00:34:05
Plant People
Right.
00:34:06
Brett
And so that that aspect of it, I think it can be really interesting and and yeah, it's it's risky. But but part of like part of what I want to convey is there there are some businesses, large businesses where they primarily market through just one channel and that's one time a year and it's ah it's it's what you would call risky.
00:34:27
Plant People
who
00:34:28
Brett
But they're large enough to mitigate the risk and they're experienced enough to mitigate the risk or they just have a high tolerance for risk. A lot of our smaller producers tend to diversify their markets
00:34:39
Plant People
isn
00:34:39
Brett
But as a result, they have all of these timelines that are overlapping. And so when you are, we talk about this with like the fall garden, for example, where you're just trying to keep up with your tomatoes and pick them on time and, you know, spray them to keep the fun fungal pressure down.
00:34:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:34:57
Brett
And you're telling me I'm supposed to be starting broccoli and starting lettuce and starting this other stuff. And I'm like, yes you are
00:35:01
Plant People
Yep.
00:35:03
Brett
And that that is a little bit of like the microcosm of the bigger picture.
00:35:07
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:35:07
Brett
And so when people talk about off season marketing or diversifying their markets, I on the one hand, I'm very supportive of that. But on the other hand, it's a hold on a second.
00:35:17
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:35:17
Brett
while you're delivering the thing that you've been working on for the last year here, you're going to need to be thinking about this next little bit.
00:35:21
Plant People
You also.
00:35:23
Brett
So maybe, maybe we'll stick with the mother's day window and Alexis, we can process your recent um recently, recently scarred over ah wounds.
00:35:26
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:35:30
Plant People
Trauma.
00:35:33
Plant People
My recently calloused wounds.
00:35:35
Brett
Yeah, so so maybe take me tell tell me what is what is in a typical diverse bouquet that ah that a florist in Kentucky might be delivering on Mother's Day, flower-wise.
00:35:48
Plant People
Yeah. So I would say for most of Kentucky, if the weather has been, you know, pretty normal, let's say a pretty average, we're just getting into peonies, which is an awesome timing for Kentucky. And if you're a northern grower and your peonies miss Mother's Day by like a week or two, I'm so sorry because they are.
00:36:08
Plant People
usually prime ah for us around these parts thank goodness ah so you're hit you're getting peony season you know a commercial florist might do you know roses and stuff like that but let's just say for the sake of it we're going mostly local um so we're looking at peonies snapdragons companionula ah Some of your perennials are going to be hopefully starting to bloom that are going to bloom around the same time as peonies. So mock orange is a great one.
00:36:36
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:36:36
Plant People
Obsessed with mock orange. Baptisia, surprisingly, I think a lot of people think of Baptisia later. And it does depend on variety, but some of those early native ones are going to start blooming when peonies are blooming.
00:36:48
Plant People
ah So Baptisia Amsonia, another native that's, um I forget the common name of it, but it's a beautiful light blue. If you've not heard of Amsonia, highly recommend it. It's just bomb-proof plant.
00:37:01
Plant People
ah So, you know, you've got some of those things. And then if you've got a high tunnel, you're looking at Ranunculus.
00:37:06
Brett
Blue Star.
00:37:08
Plant People
Blue Star. Yes, Blue Star.
00:37:09
Brett
i didn't I wanted to say it, but i didn't look an idiot.
00:37:09
Plant People
namecon yeah I know, I wanted to say, I was like, Blue Star. It's like what it looks like. But then I thought, yeah, that's too simple. Yeah.
00:37:16
Brett
So I have a very brief side note. My mom and my brother called me a couple weeks ago from they were shopping at a nursery for plants. And my mom had picked out a juniper cultivar named Blue Star.
00:37:29
Plant People
Uh-huh.
00:37:31
Plant People
Uh-huh.
00:37:31
Brett
And my brother had picked out an amazon Amazonia
00:37:34
Plant People
Uh-huh.
00:37:35
Brett
Blue Star.
00:37:36
Plant People
Blue star.
00:37:36
Brett
And they referred to both each of them as Blue Star going back and forth, asking me the same question. it was like kind of like a who's on first kind of thing. Like, well, where should we the Blue Star? I'm like, you should put that by the house. Well, where should we put the Blue Star?
00:37:48
Brett
You should put that by the house. But you just said we should put the Blue Star by the house. And yeah it was a Blue Star Juniper.
00:37:51
Plant People
Like, you do realize both of you are saying blue star, right? Like...
00:37:55
Brett
Yeah, no, they do not. And it was it was pretty awesome. It was a fun it was a fun experience for me.
00:37:59
Plant People
Yeah, i mean that's something my dad would do. he asked me right like, Dad, what do what? Which, again, as plant people, we tend to think it's more simple than I think it actually is, but whatever.
00:38:11
Brett
Blue star, who's on first?
00:38:13
Plant People
Yeah.
00:38:13
Brett
What you asking me for?
00:38:13
Plant People
um
00:38:14
Brett
um so So you have some perennials.
00:38:14
Plant People
But yeah, so Mother's Day tulips are another big one. Yeah, perennials.
00:38:18
Brett
You have some biennials.
00:38:19
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:38:20
Brett
Snapdragon a biennial?
00:38:20
Plant People
Fox glove. No, fox glove is, though. Mm-hmm.
00:38:22
Brett
Foxglove. Okay.
00:38:24
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:38:24
Brett
And you have some some ah annuals, of course.
00:38:28
Plant People
Yeah, annuals and like overwintered annuals.
00:38:29
Brett
And so when when are those various things started or or touched on?
00:38:32
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah. So the perennials, if you're, you know, let's say, you know, if they want them to bloom in 2025, I'm most likely going to have planted them at least by spring 2024, depending on the type of perennial.
00:38:49
Plant People
and But you know generally, let's say for bloom in spring 2025, that perennial might have ah been planted or ah more likely in fall of 2023.
00:39:03
Plant People
So it's like ah you've got basically a year and a half at a minimum. Those peonies, three years at a minimum is usually what we're saying for that, um for the for the perennials and the woodies and things like that. So, you know, two to three years, depending on the type of perennial it is.
00:39:19
Plant People
For those annuals, it is still early for Kentucky to have annuals blooming around Mother's Day unless you have a high tunnel. And so for those things that are in a high tunnel, most of the time those are planted October, November.
00:39:36
Plant People
And then sometimes there's another wave in January coming in, but that's going to be like a small amount of things that are very specific. ah But most are going to be October, early November.
00:39:49
Plant People
And then bulbs. So tulips are one that a lot of people want for Mother's Day and hit for Mother's Day. And of course, we know those are planted ah typically in the fall. ah So, you know, you're looking at for even for annual production around six months of care.
00:40:07
Plant People
six to seven months of care to hit the Mother's Day window. um Very few times, it really depends on the weather, but very few times can you get away with seeding in, you know, let's say early March, some stuff you can seed, but usually those won't hit that May window. It's just not enough time with the cool soil. So So yeah, you're looking at a minimum of six months to create a Mother's Day bouquet.
00:40:30
Plant People
And for a truly ah robust bouquet, I would say, then you know you're looking more at like a three-year time. Not to say you can't make a pretty bouquet of just ranunculus, but they tend to feel a little bit smaller.
00:40:45
Plant People
And so if you really want that gorgeous peony bouquet, you need that, that you're going to hit that higher price point and, you know, kind of that market that you're looking for.
00:40:50
Brett
So one of my one of my underhanded reasons for wanting to do this podcast and to talk about this stuff is to to make a pitch for thinking creatively about collaboration.
00:41:06
Brett
um This sounds like I'm setting up for like an ad read or something, but I'm not. um Not that we don't have lots of people knocking down our doors to sponsor us, but we're trying to stay.
00:41:14
Plant People
fun
00:41:16
Brett
we We are owned by no one. Okay. We're one of the last free media.
00:41:19
Plant People
although we have had requests for merch and I'm here to figure out how to make that happen
00:41:23
Brett
Yeah, we have to figure that out. um But I think what i what I just heard is to produce all the things that go into a single bouquet diverse like that.
00:41:36
Plant People
Mmhmm.
00:41:37
Brett
is a long-term project. It's complicated, it's complex, it can be difficult.
00:41:40
Plant People
Mmhmm. Yep.
00:41:42
Brett
And on top of that, you then have to also market it. And so that's a shout out to like our Soaky Floral Exchange or Kentucky Flower Market groups that do some really great work to like, let's say you grow really great peonies, but you would like to have your flowers be part of a more diversified bouquet.
00:41:44
Plant People
Yep.
00:41:48
Plant People
Mmhmm. Woo-woo!
00:41:55
Plant People
Mmhmm.
00:41:58
Plant People
Mmhmm.
00:41:58
Brett
there is opportunity for some either you can buy from them, you can sell through them, yeah that kind of thing. But it's, you know, it's complicated. So maybe we'll maybe we'll anything else you want to say about the the spring side of things?
00:42:06
Plant People
yeah
00:42:10
Plant People
No, I just, if I guess the thing it I like to say is if you're wondering why like Mother's Day bouquets or, you know, flowers around that time are really expensive or you feel like they're really expensive, um it they're not gouging you.
00:42:24
Plant People
It's because they have been growing those items for, you know, sometimes three years and they were scraping snow off the tunnels and ice and they were, spending hours covering and uncovering things, you know, twice a day, every day, all winter long. So ah trust me, it's not as expensive as you think.
00:42:43
Plant People
And maybe that's just not the bouquet size for you. Go with something smaller if you feel it's too expensive. But I just I like to throw that out there because like you said, people see something in front of them. It's been warm for a month. So it's easy to feel like, well, they just grew these.
00:42:58
Plant People
No, they've probably been growing for six months to three years to get to this point. So just that's why it costs $50.
00:43:07
Brett
Yeah.
00:43:07
Plant People
But yes, I'll get off my soapbox.
00:43:08
Brett
Yeah. I think that's, yeah, that's spot on.
00:43:10
Plant People
We appreciate you.
00:43:11
Brett
And then another aspect of like the produce and flour and any of these is that you're also paying for the cuts that got frost damaged or got some sort of a blight or weren't the right, you know, that got damn, you know weren't marketable and rotted on the vine or whatever it may be.
00:43:21
Plant People
Yeah.
00:43:25
Plant People
Or the right color. Yeah.
00:43:29
Brett
Two, and our large systems of food and floral distribution, which do some amazing things logistically, have have made us lose a little bit of sight of some of those those other costs associated.
00:43:36
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:43:42
Brett
So let's just flip real quick over from spring to fall.
00:43:42
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Sure.
00:43:45
Brett
I think a lot of people have a general sense of that gardening window, typical 4th of July.
00:43:46
Plant People
Yeah.
00:43:50
Plant People
Yeah.
00:43:52
Brett
But if if you like this style of episode, we can talk more in depth about any any of these. But I'm thinking about like the the orchard, apples and peaches and pears.
00:44:00
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:44:03
Brett
Oh, my. um I'm also thinking a little bit about pumpkins. And I'm thinking about looking beyond that or even during that period, even to the the value added stuff.
00:44:14
Plant People
Just
00:44:15
Brett
So we we just came out of ah spring window where All in all, as Alexis said, it was appropriate and acceptable and good. um
00:44:25
Plant People
a respectable spring.
00:44:26
Brett
But not that not that being said, we did have a couple of days that were pretty chilly in um in April in particular.
00:44:32
Plant People
Yeah.
00:44:35
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:44:36
Brett
And as a result, so during that window of time, a lot of our fruit trees are in at some stage of putting out blooms, putting out their little but flower buds,
00:44:48
Brett
And the magic of that is that flowers eventually become fruit. They only become fruit if they don't get damaged and knocked off by one thing or another in the course of their existence.
00:44:53
Plant People
Woohoo!
00:45:00
Brett
And so a late frost can cause all these problems. And so that's, that's one example of, okay, so you're picking this apple, you pick apple. Yay. John gold. We love it. Arkansas black. We love it.
00:45:11
Brett
Picture with the family in September, October, Well, that little individual fruits journey began at least back in March, April when that bud was emerging.
00:45:23
Plant People
right right if you don't take into account yeah exactly if you don't take into the account just like the health and the sprays of the tree itself to be able to produce those blooms if you just say that apple started yeah in in march and april mm-hmm
00:45:24
Brett
But beyond that...
00:45:36
Brett
But the tree on which the apple grew, in many cases, what's what's the, do you all have, did you all have like a specific like general timeline for planting to fruit bearing for fruit trees?
00:45:51
Plant People
Yeah, it depends on what you start with. But let's say you ah the average size of an apple tree going in, um even if you're just getting it from a box store, ah we say is like five years. um But if you're putting in, you know, if you're an orchard that's putting in something much smaller because you're putting in hundreds, it's probably closer to seven, just depending on the rootstock variety. But yeah, five to seven years.
00:46:16
Brett
And breeders are constantly trying to push how fast it can fruit, you know, balancing that with long term health of the tree. And so, again, you've got this longer term thing you've got. and And if it just so like if it so happens that every Saturday and Sunday from September 15th to November 15th is rainy and gross and nobody wants to go out and play on the mud farm.
00:46:38
Plant People
ah
00:46:39
Brett
Then suddenly that market, that that's the market window for a lot of our agritourism operations.
00:46:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:46:45
Brett
How about so pumpkins? We said October is go time, peak time of year. What's the what's the backstory on that? As far as um I was just looking at some and there's different varieties of pumpkins, some of them.
00:46:57
Plant People
Yep.
00:46:59
Brett
um Again, breed plant breeders are thinking about markets and they're also thinking about if you can have a plant that has all the, or so you you can have a fruit that has all the characteristics that you want, but it can get there, get out there sooner or quicker.
00:47:11
Brett
that's fewer times you have to spray it, less time for it to be in the field for disease and insects to get to it.
00:47:12
Plant People
Right.
00:47:16
Plant People
Right.
00:47:16
Brett
More time you theoretically could use that field for something else.
00:47:18
Plant People
Correct.
00:47:18
Brett
um But I was, I was looking in it like one of the early jack-o'-lantern varieties is 95 day. day to harvest. I tend to think of pumpkins and somewhere around the 100 plus or minus 10 day window.
00:47:32
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:33
Brett
So can you Alexis, can you do the plant math for me there?
00:47:37
Plant People
So we the rule of thumb is sometime in June is usually what we're saying.
00:47:40
Brett
hmm.
00:47:41
Plant People
Again, depends on the variety. Some are going to be early June. But, you know, if it's a 95-day, a smaller, you know, little pie pumpkin or something like that, you might be able to push it to the end of June. But, yeah, that's the rule of thumb is June is pumpkin time. Mm-hmm.
00:47:59
Brett
and so you're putting those in as little tiny plants. ah they look They look very similar to like a cucumber when you put them in the ground. And then they grow and they grow and they grow and they set fruit. And and many of you all have grown these before.
00:48:09
Plant People
And you're seeding them in probably mid-May, you know, ah for that window too. So.
00:48:15
Brett
and And so hold on a second, Alexis. So you're telling me if I were going to grow bedding plants or cut flowers, I would be having to seed seed pumpkins at the same time that I'm trying to go going crazy, trying to sell my flowers, get my bedding plants out, staff the farm stand, get tomatoes in the ground.
00:48:35
Plant People
Yeah.
00:48:39
Plant People
Yeah, mother if you're selling for a Mother's Day, ah you also have to get tomatoes in the ground and seed your pumpkins. And yes, that's exactly, it goes right back to the diversifying your market is very helpful, but you have to sell it at the same time you're growing something else, at the same time you're harvesting something else.
00:49:00
Plant People
And all of that rolled into one. Mm-hmm.
00:49:04
Brett
Yeah. And you're, you may be harvesting beets or carrots or lettuce or whatever, if you're selling those. So like diversification, we're center for crop diversification is very conceptually cool.
00:49:15
Brett
It's very exciting. You will never be bored, but it can be a whole lot. And this is why there are some people who hear some, you know, people who are crusty and think that they're funny.
00:49:25
Brett
Like our old friend, Josh Knight, who used to be on the podcast, who hear the term season extension
00:49:27
Plant People
Uh-huh.
00:49:31
Brett
And they say, why?
00:49:33
Plant People
Yep.
00:49:34
Brett
season is long enough. It's hard enough, you know, and, and this idea like, okay, these are times where I can either rest or I can plan or I can do these other things. And you want to extend into that window so you can sell more understandable. There, you know, there are things that go along with that.
00:49:48
Plant People
Yeah.
00:49:48
Brett
Um,
00:49:49
Plant People
And there's a reason why a lot, big companies have gone into, you know, one area, right? They're they're less diversified because to expand, ah they had to, you know, have less.
00:50:03
Plant People
And so, you know, you often do less things if you're more diversified. You do less carrots because it's a space constraint, but it's also just like a brain constraint.
00:50:11
Brett
Right.
00:50:14
Brett
Yeah. and And you'll hear you'll hear some producers um who talk about. Starting out with a like, let's do everything. And then they realize these are the things I'm good at.
00:50:23
Plant People
and
00:50:25
Brett
These are the things I can sell, which is a big one. I'm going to focus on that. And so I think, again, while I'm.
00:50:29
Plant People
Yeah. Or they pick a market to focus on. It might not even just be a crop. It could be Like I hate summer. So I'm not trying to be out there in the sun and growing a bunch, yeah having to harvest. I'm just going I want to be out there to care for stuff, to get it through till fall. And then when I have to be outside more, then that's the window. And you know, some ah high tunnel growers growing in a high tunnel in the summer is miserable.
00:50:55
Plant People
So they're kind trying to hit those um windows so and,
00:50:57
Brett
Yes.
00:51:00
Plant People
Then they but instead of having a winter break, they have a summer break kind of thing. um It's not quite the same, but it's a little bit more. So, ah yeah, you can also have less markets, still have a lot of crops.
00:51:11
Brett
Mm-hmm. Yeah. and and And I think um the ah the only other thing I wanted to mention was we have we have talked about and lots of people love to talk about value added products.
00:51:21
Brett
And there's for good reason.
00:51:22
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:51:23
Brett
Often that is where you can make a whole lot more money because you are adding value to the crop through some sort of processing, whether that be putting in a jar so it can sit on a shelf instead of
00:51:28
Plant People
Nailed it.
00:51:34
Brett
You know yeah have strawberry, epic strawberries. You can either eat them within four days or we can can them in some sort of a jam or jelly or freeze them and they can sit in a freezer on the shelf till whenever you want.
00:51:45
Brett
you know for you For Christmas morning, you want to have some strawberry preserves on your pancakes. You can do that.
00:51:51
Plant People
nailed it
00:51:52
Brett
um But that process of adding value to the crops that you're growing, if you're talking about you're going to grow the crops and do the value adding happens while you are harvesting that stuff and probably selling it other places too.
00:52:08
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:52:09
Brett
So like the reason you want to harvest that you, you know, and you want to can those things when they're at the peak of flavor, you also want to sell those fresh to people when they're at the peak of their flavor, then that means you're going to have to be doing some either arranging for or yourself doing some value adding in the middle, in the middle there.
00:52:24
Plant People
right
00:52:25
Brett
um And that's why there are some some businesses who decide we actually are going to move away from growing any of the stuff. We're going to buy it from people and we're going to do the value adding, the canning, the whatever.
00:52:38
Brett
There's some people who move away from we're not going to we're not going to sell into fresh markets. We're just going to do value added.
00:52:44
Plant People
Right.
00:52:45
Brett
And that's because they feel like they can make more money on, ah yes, those jams and jellies and canned goods and frozen stuff, but also on even baked goods and other things where they can incorporate their products in.
00:52:56
Plant People
right
00:52:58
Brett
And so I think that that's just another side of the of the marketing angle is if you're going to, you're just sort of just adding another thing. Every time you're doing this, you're adding another thing.
00:53:06
Plant People
yeah Yeah. Well, it's lot like a flower. i I know it's easy for me to talk about flowers, but flowers, you know, it's, you could, there's a, there's the bouquet, which is the added value, or you sell wholesale and you, so you sell straight bunches.
00:53:21
Plant People
And it's so easy to package up 10 stems of the same thing You put it in a bunch, you wrap it up, you forget about it versus curating a bouquet and having to pick, you know, 10, 12, 20 different items and then put them all together. Make sure it all looks good. You know, it's the same thing across and, you know, these different markets, the same as a jam or a jelly. You know, do you do a seedless raspberry and a seeded raspberry jam? do you have to do both? I mean, it's one, you know, you can even get in depth and I just, and those are all decisions that happen.
00:53:55
Plant People
Pretty much while or very close to while the harvesting is happening, while the spraying is happening. I know you just said that, but I just like I'm reiterating the importance of that when you're thinking about branching out as well as as a consumer, you you know, why things cost what they cost and why things are just not available.
00:54:02
Brett
No, totally.
00:54:14
Plant People
And like so far they're tired.
00:54:17
Brett
Yeah, because when we when we consider a new enterprise or we consider a new crop, the main question that's asked is sort of like, is this possible? Is it possible for me to do this given the constraints of weather and climate and my own knowledge and and you know expertise or experience or whatever?
00:54:38
Brett
And there are many, many times where the answer to that question is yes. And the answer should I do this is no And and i remember I remember working back when i I worked in some of the high tunnel stuff and and just thinking about people who were doing research and trying to push and and push the limits of seasonality of local products.
00:54:47
Plant People
Facts.
00:54:59
Plant People
Yeah.
00:55:00
Brett
And there was a year, the several years actually, where we had kale that we were producing from the research tunnels that would be available literally year round.
00:55:13
Brett
And now what that's a whole angle there, the whole thing there where you're actually growing most of the leaf prior to like December. And then it just sits on the plant in a, like almost in a form of arrested development um for a period of time.
00:55:21
Plant People
yeah
00:55:25
Plant People
yeah
00:55:27
Brett
And then you can harvest harvest what's there. But anyway, but the question would then be, if you are primarily marketing into farmers markets and maybe a CSA and It's kind of tricky and challenging to to grow these things for over the winter.
00:55:43
Brett
You're having to cover stuff.
00:55:44
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:55:44
Brett
You're having to take care youre to hit the snow off all the other things you mentioned. Do you just because you can, does that mean that you should? And some people offer the answer of the institutional market, you know, sell it to a school, sell it to a ah a university or a hospital or a restaurant.
00:56:03
Brett
And in some cases it can actually work. I think restaurants are an example where yes, it can work, but sometimes they're not going to buy the volume that you might need. Or conversely, a school might be able to buy the stuff, but they're going to buy it at a price point that may not make any sense for you doing this, all of this crazy extra stuff to,
00:56:19
Brett
bend the seasons to your will and say, I am, I am the victor here.
00:56:21
Plant People
and Yeah. When really, you know, you could probably be putting a cover, a different crop or even a cover crop in there to be improving your soils that you have healthier, better plants that you're putting less into down the road.
00:56:28
Brett
Yep.
00:56:35
Plant People
And so, yeah, that's the the opportunity cost, right, of ah growing maybe when you shouldn't be or could.
00:56:40
Brett
Yep. Or you canned a bunch of tomatoes that you grew in the field and you spend your days instead of tending to, you put in your cover crop and instead of tending to your greens and keeping them alive, you go and set up some holiday markets and you sell a bunch of that stuff, you know, during the off season.
00:56:57
Plant People
Right.
00:56:58
Brett
And so this is this is this I don't know this interesting tension and nexus between the markets and the human cultural extensions of how we celebrate things and think about things and how how horticultural products and are just woven throughout our lives.
00:57:14
Brett
There's also this whole economic component of how and when people spend money. And then there's the seasonality and the production stuff that all the plant nerds are excited about and are fun. And don't get me wrong, it felt very powerful to have great eat greens on January 1st that I grew and harvested you know that day.
00:57:28
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:57:31
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:57:32
Brett
But um there's more to it than that. and And so, yeah, so I appreciate the indulgence that Alexis indulging me with this concept of the kind of deep dive through these cycles.
00:57:35
Plant People
Yeah.
00:57:41
Brett
But and if you are interested in that, like this, I'm i'm thinking of it almost like a some people do what's called lifecycle analysis and they'll do it for something like carbon or energy or something like that, where they.
00:57:53
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:57:54
Brett
follow a product through every stage of its development and they figure out how much carbon or whatever.
00:57:57
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:57:59
Brett
Something almost like that, like a product cycle analysis or market cycle analysis or something for different products.
00:58:04
Plant People
Yeah.
00:58:05
Brett
And so we we would, you know, we could take ah
00:58:06
Plant People
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:58:09
Brett
I don't know what a zinnia and a peony and foxglove and kind of explore that a little bit more, or maybe even like a strawberry jam, you know, that I'm going to do annual strawberry, annual style strawberry production.
00:58:21
Plant People
yeah
00:58:25
Brett
So I'm planting it in September, harvesting the following May, canning it and then selling it, you know, through that next year.
00:58:31
Plant People
isn
00:58:32
Brett
It could be an interesting one to an agritourism full of those.
00:58:35
Plant People
A life cycle of product analysis. Like, yeah, a product market analysis or something like that.
00:58:38
Brett
Yeah.
00:58:41
Plant People
Yeah.
00:58:41
Brett
And even try to see we can find a producer to like talk about a little bit how they're thinking about the timelines of, of their, of their processes.
00:58:41
Plant People
Yeah.
00:58:50
Plant People
I kind of want to call this episode just because you can doesn't mean you should.
00:58:54
Brett
Yes.
00:58:57
Brett
yes
00:58:57
Plant People
um as As a ah from a vibe check.
00:58:59
Brett
That's like, ah that's like from mom Jurassic Park.
00:59:01
Plant People
Yeah.
00:59:05
Brett
they were too but They were too busy asking whether they could to stop and think whether they should.
00:59:05
Plant People
Oh, yeah.
00:59:10
Plant People
Whether they should, yeah.
00:59:11
Brett
Or I guess he's more like ah they were too busy. It's like the Jeff Goldblum.
00:59:17
Plant People
Perfect.
00:59:17
Brett
That was a terrible Jeff Goldblum. I'm sorry, everybody.
00:59:19
Plant People
it's it I mean, it's a was, but we knew where you were coming from with it.
00:59:21
Brett
Hey, well, okay.
00:59:22
Plant People
So, well, ah if you're interested in that, definitely feel free to shoot us an email, a message on Instagram. ah You know, you can, if you're not follow following us on there at Hort Culture Podcast.
00:59:33
Plant People
ah We do our best to post ah regularly and throw up some cool things and share cool things from other partners that we love and work with that might be you know interesting and useful to you so follow us on there you can always shoot us an email with just you know questions ideas for other podcasts love if you just want to also if you don't mind to rate us five stars it helps other people find us makes the algorithm happy and feel free to leave a comment on maybe what you could do but you know that you shouldn't do that sounds like a good idea to me we'd love to hear it so
01:00:08
Plant People
We appreciate you guys being here today and we will chat with you next time. Have a great one.