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Late Summer Lawn, Landscape & Garden Wrap-Up image

Late Summer Lawn, Landscape & Garden Wrap-Up

S3 E40 · Hort Culture
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93 Plays10 days ago

As summer winds down and fall kicks into gear, the Hort Culture crew—Alexis, Brett, Jessica, and Ray—sit down to unpack the busy transition season for lawns, landscapes, and gardens in Kentucky. From wrapping up summer crops to preparing for fall planting, the team dives into the balancing act of deciding when to terminate tomatoes and peppers, the importance of cover crops, and how sustainability goes beyond just environmental concerns to include economic and personal well-being .

They share practical fall to-dos: planting trees and dividing perennials, reseeding cool-season lawns, mulching landscapes, and making time for soil testing . The conversation also highlights the ecological role of leaving some garden debris for pollinators, while sprinkling in personal stories about amaryllis care, cover crop mixes, and the “team termination” debate over worn-out summer veggies .

Listeners will walk away with a clear picture of what tasks make the biggest impact in September and October, plus a reminder to enjoy the season—even if it means pulling a few tired plants early to make way for new growth next year.


Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.com

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Transcript

Fall's Hectic Nature and Caffeine Reliance

00:00:17
Alexis
Well, welcome to fall where it feels like all of us have done 18 billion things within a five hour period. Jessica just said before we started, feels like she's lived five lives already today or five days within less than a full day.
00:00:34
Alexis
i think, ah yeah, all before lunch.
00:00:34
Jessica
All before lunch.
00:00:37
Alexis
I think a lot of us are feeling like that in the fall just because of the amount of things that we have to do. I know i am extra caffeinated this time of year.
00:00:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:00:46
Alexis
How about you guys?
00:00:46
Plant People
Oh, I'm extra caffeinated all periods of the year.
00:00:47
Jessica
Oh, I am too.
00:00:50
Plant People
Yeah. yeah I'm consistently caffeinated. How about that? But especially in the fall, I guess, because number one, I love the fall. So I need that extra energy to just go extra hard.
00:00:59
Alexis
Just want to enjoy it extra hard.
00:01:01
Plant People
Yes. I want to enjoy it extra hard. That needs to be the title of this episode because it's a beautiful day here in Kentucky at the recording.
00:01:08
Alexis
We might get tagged.
00:01:09
Plant People
It's warm.
00:01:10
Alexis
Apple's going to tag us. Is this appropriate?
00:01:12
Plant People
Yeah, I'm just going to go full send.
00:01:13
Jessica
Right.
00:01:15
Plant People
How about that? I don't know if that's any better.

Fall Events and Local Extensions

00:01:18
Plant People
ah But yeah, FALSA, I don't know, a busy time in local extension offices, I know, and probably other organizations as well.
00:01:18
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:01:24
Plant People
But it seems like lots of field days going on, lots of end of season kind of gatherings and educational programs, but especially the field days. And there's some of those coming up.
00:01:35
Plant People
You know, we were talking about that before we hit the record button today. Do you guys have any that you would like to plug that's coming up immediately in the future? Some them we may have already talked about in previous episodes.
00:01:46
Jessica
Well, I have one that's happening in like four hours. So that one probably people will probably be able to attend that one.
00:01:49
Alexis
Uh-uh.
00:01:50
Plant People
Oh gosh. Yeah.
00:01:52
Jessica
But our annual.
00:01:53
Plant People
It'll be like a three, four weeks too late by the time this episode post.
00:01:54
Jessica
Yeah. Yeah. Our annual Mercer County Ag Field Day that we're having tonight.
00:01:57
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:01
Jessica
So as Ray mentioned, it's odd because like you think fall is not going to be that busy, right? You think like, OK, the spring rush, the production season of summer.
00:02:11
Jessica
And then you're like, oh, the fall is going to get here. It's going to be a little more relaxing. Right.
00:02:17
Alexis
and
00:02:17
Jessica
But instead, there's all sorts of things always going on.
00:02:20
Alexis
Second spring, baby.
00:02:20
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:21
Jessica
Yep. Yep.
00:02:22
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:22
Alexis
yeah
00:02:22
Plant People
It seems like people, I've said it before, but people are just in a gathering mood. I don't know if it's the the seasonal change or the weather gets more moderate here in Kentucky. Usually gets more moderate.
00:02:33
Plant People
Not always. as of recording today, it's going to be in the mid 80s. But yeah, the fall time of the year, it's just, I think people, it's ah it's a gathering time. yeah an hour I always thought maybe the seasonality of Kentucky had something to do with that.
00:02:47
Brett
Yeah. i I think sometimes being on campus, we, we don't, or I at least don't get as delusional about fall being not hectic because it's the, it's the time when all of the student undergraduate students return to campus.
00:02:48
Plant People
Maybe. Maybe.
00:03:03
Plant People
Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:03:04
Brett
And it's a, it's a different city, like it's a different city, different campus.
00:03:07
Plant People
Yeah.
00:03:07
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:03:08
Brett
Um, and the excitement is in the air. There's football being played roundup events with lots of straw bales and, um,
00:03:12
Plant People
Yeah.
00:03:17
Brett
and apples and and gourds and stuff. um And, and unfortunately, or fortunately for our future selves, Alexis and I will have just come off of, we we will have have in the rear view, I think as of the posting of this episode, a mechanical weed control field day and our 25th anniversary for our center for crop diversification.

Relaxation After Big Events

00:03:37
Brett
So,
00:03:37
Plant People
Yeah. You guys have two big events that are being the rear view mirror by the time this episode.
00:03:39
Jessica
Yeah.
00:03:41
Brett
I don't feel relaxed now, but you're hearing my voice in a time where we will be. So I'm just going to lean into that.
00:03:49
Alexis
Yeah, in the future. There
00:03:50
Plant People
You're going to have to just project it forward, Brett, and be in that space.
00:03:53
Alexis
is some Matrix stuff going on right now.
00:03:54
Plant People
Yeah. Once, once they these two events are behind you and they're going to be amazing. I know you guys ah have had incredible interest in, you know, in those events. Uh, it's going to be great and you're going to be super relaxed.
00:04:07
Plant People
You just need to handle that.
00:04:07
Brett
To be fair, I'm not as stressed out as Alexis is because and not doing as much as she is.
00:04:10
Plant People
Hmm. Hmm.
00:04:12
Brett
So, um,
00:04:15
Alexis
he's He's doing things that I'm not good at, so he can be stressed out over there.
00:04:19
Brett
yeah. And the, the mechanical weed control field day is, I mean, I guess, so it says since it's now in the future past, we'll just give a huge shout out to, to Alexis into Sarah Gerking from Oak, the Queens, the Queens of my technical assistance, agricultural world.
00:04:27
Plant People
Hmm.
00:04:36
Brett
Congratulations.
00:04:37
Alexis
Queens of mechanical weed control, which is something that, you know,
00:04:41
Brett
Thank you.
00:04:43
Alexis
you may have done or are thinking of doing and maybe you're just going to mow everything down and put in some cover crop because the end of September, mid to end of September, depending on where you are in Kentucky, can be cover crop season.

Seasonal Plant Behavior in Home Gardens

00:04:59
Alexis
um And that's a great thing to do for your gardens and ah gardens, farms, just unused beds in general, just have some living roots in there.
00:04:59
Plant People
Yeah.
00:05:08
Jessica
That's a good, good transition there from talking.
00:05:08
Plant People
Just something going on.
00:05:12
Brett
Ooh.
00:05:12
Plant People
and like Yeah.
00:05:12
Alexis
Thank you, I appreciate it. Only Jessica caught on where I was like, let's talk about things.
00:05:14
Jessica
tu Yeah, I caught it.
00:05:16
Plant People
Alexis was, Alexis was totally bringing us back around.
00:05:17
Jessica
It's from like, you know, from talking about all of our meetings. So wrapping that back around with plants of all the fall things that can happen because the fall is also a very busy time.
00:05:22
Plant People
That's going to be done. Yeah.
00:05:26
Plant People
yeah
00:05:29
Jessica
Horticultural wise.
00:05:30
Plant People
Yeah, it's like so it's a super important time.
00:05:31
Jessica
Yeah.
00:05:31
Alexis
Yes.
00:05:33
Plant People
This is coming out late September when this is going to post up, and we got to thinking about you know that before we recorded today, and and it's a busy time.
00:05:39
Jessica
you
00:05:42
Plant People
I mean, I know that for home gardeners, ah plants are starting to regress. They're starting to kind of slow down and go away, and I've even talked to some um homeowners this past week.
00:05:54
Plant People
They've already pulled up. They're sick of looking at tomatoes. ah They've pulled up their tomatoes and their their home garden is in a state of decline, the way they put it.
00:06:02
Alexis
i I saw a um quote. It was, and I wish I could remember who said it, but it was ah like, fall, the plants in the fall are the most wild because they have nothing to lose.
00:06:16
Alexis
And I was like, that just like hit me in a way because, you know, we say that, you know, plants are, you know, we use maybe the word decline, but ah for a lot of our plants there, if you know, finishing setting seed, um they're doing a lot of their, you know, really pushing energy back down into the root system.
00:06:27
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:06:31
Plant People
Yeah.
00:06:32
Alexis
So like from an annual perspective, sure decline, right? Cause they don't like the cold there. They are dying. But I think for our perennials,
00:06:38
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:06:40
Alexis
you know, we think of those is if they're not declining and they're kind of wild and crazy right now because they're just trying to get the most out of the end of the year and put the most back into what is going to be happen next year.
00:06:44
Plant People
No.
00:06:53
Alexis
so I don't know.
00:06:53
Plant People
No.
00:06:54
Alexis
I just thought that was a fun way

Bonsai Enthusiasts and Fall Beginnings

00:06:55
Brett
So one of one of the things that that brings to mind for me, there's a bonsai guy that I follow and I'm sure he didn't invent it, but I've heard him say it, that that for him, he thinks of fall as the first season of the year.
00:06:55
Alexis
to think about it.
00:06:55
Plant People
ah
00:07:08
Brett
um that Because that's when seeds are created.
00:07:08
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:07:10
Brett
That's when roots are reinforced. That's when you know you're sort of preparing, you're putting together your package that's going to take you as a plant. take you through the next year. You know, that, that seed gets set now.
00:07:22
Brett
That's a, that's a baby embryonic plant with its ah starter food supply in a hard, mostly, you know, hard capsule kind of thing. Like that act of, of creating that thing.
00:07:33
Brett
It's like, that's the birthday of the plant kind of, um, not to get too political.
00:07:36
Alexis
yeah
00:07:37
Brett
I'm just kidding. Um, uh,
00:07:38
Plant People
Thank you.
00:07:39
Alexis
Well, and and i think I think for a lot of our farmers, it's that way too I mean, um you know, they're they're finishing up the year. They're thinking about what didn't work so they can make the plans for next year. So they're having these like this, you know, their plan for their baby farm of 2026.
00:07:56
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:07:56
Alexis
happens in 2025. And I think that that's like one of the ways farmers have taken a key from what nature does of, you know, taking in everything from this year and starting to make those plans for next year to be more successful.
00:08:10
Alexis
um And, you know, for some of our growers, they're putting plants in the ground and overwintering them.
00:08:14
Jessica
Right.
00:08:16
Alexis
So, and, you know, so that the baby starts now and the first sales aren't going to be for, you know, several months. And, you i mean Jessica could talk more, but it feels pretty similar even for livestock from a like planning perspective.
00:08:30
Alexis
um you know What are you do going to do in 2026? What was successful in 2025?
00:08:36
Jessica
right
00:08:36
Plant People
It's a, it's a interesting, this and this is where I see a, um, uh, a dividing point sometimes between home, ah c growers, uh, for home purposes and then commercial growers.
00:08:47
Plant People
This is where I start to see the branching out come in as far as the way that they view, as Brett said, the the end of the season, some people's ends are other people's beginnings, uh, especially those commercial people, um,
00:08:59
Brett
Well, i have I have a quick vibe check question for those of you out in the field doing doing the real the real work out there.

Impact of Inconsistent Weather on Gardens

00:09:06
Brett
So this year, weather-wise, we're in year 2025, have been hard to grow plants.
00:09:13
Brett
um seems to have been hard ah to grow plants
00:09:19
Plant People
Boom and bust.
00:09:20
Brett
Yeah. ah You know, it's the wetter than it needs to be drier than it needs to be.
00:09:26
Plant People
Yeah.
00:09:26
Brett
um But never, you know, those two crossing necessarily. So have you have you what my question is, have you noticed like gardens and or commercial operations winding down earlier this year than is you would typically see?
00:09:40
Plant People
Hmm. Hmm. I see plants that got used ah in home garden situations that are typically not irrigated. They looked pretty good if they could, if diseases were under control, you know, they look pretty good.
00:09:54
Jessica
Thank you.
00:09:54
Plant People
They look like irrigated gardens. They were getting frequent rains. And as long as diseases didn't overtake you, gardens and especially lawns looked amazing. Everything looked like it was irrigated.
00:10:05
Plant People
And then at a point the growing season here in Kentucky, It just became very dry. And i Brett, to answer your question short, I guess I saw things collapse more quickly than I normally would. ah I don't know if that's just because I noticed it because the weather transitionist was ah transition was so sharp or it affected the plant growing conditions and then those high moisture conditions went away.
00:10:22
Brett
Hmm. Hmm.
00:10:28
Plant People
It got very dry, so the plants reacted to that. because the root structure, you know, sometimes the roots follow the moisture as far as depth goes. um But there's a lot going on. In my case, I've noticed in certain situations, especially for homeowners, mostly homeowners, ah people's gardens went down a little bit quicker than normal.
00:10:47
Jessica
I saw a mix of it. um Alexis and I had an opportunity to go to a field day here in our county ah not too long ago, and where a lot of homeowner stuff has already gone down if they weren't doing regular irrigation.
00:10:58
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:11:00
Jessica
This commercial grower in particular, we had so many heavy rains in the early spring, things flooded, Things got put out later. So a lot of their crops were really just getting going like later in this late in the summer.
00:11:12
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:13
Brett
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:11:13
Plant People
Late.
00:11:13
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:11:15
Jessica
Right.
00:11:15
Plant People
in him
00:11:15
Jessica
So I think it really depends on your production system.
00:11:18
Plant People
Yeah.
00:11:18
Jessica
And if, if you could get things out early and the rain didn't, when we had all that rain didn't inhibit you. um But agree with Ray, a lot of the homeowner stuff of if they weren't doing regular irrigation, we saw once we got in this drought kind of,
00:11:36
Jessica
you know spell that we were in things went down pretty quick and you know or disease and pests took over you
00:11:42
Plant People
Yeah. And I noticed, uh, I never, I've, I've didn't observe that in any place more than I did, ah home lawns. We don't talk a tremendous amount on the show about home lawns, but that is the question I've been getting the last couple of weeks. It's pretty amazing. Uh, early, you know, every lawn looked beautiful. It looked like an irrigated golf course and I've mowed more this year than I've ever mowed up until it got dry. And then I've not mowed. This is going on four weeks. I've not touched my lawn.
00:12:08
Plant People
ah too awfully much at all. It's been hot. It's been dry. I don't want to get on there and do any damage. But the homeowner question of the day seems to be they're noticing weeds that are still kind of green in some situations, weeds like crabgrass that are more green than their cool season grasses that look very brown and very dormant at this point.
00:12:26
Plant People
So we we're that's the question I've been getting here lately.
00:12:26
Brett
have to
00:12:29
Plant People
I don't know about as far as county offices. Jessica, have you been seeing that also? As far as lawn questions, I mean, people's lawns went from beautiful and lush to not
00:12:34
Jessica
Yes.
00:12:38
Plant People
beautiful and less real quick
00:12:39
Jessica
Yeah. So we were extremely dry in our area and that's what people were noticing, right?
00:12:45
Plant People
over
00:12:45
Jessica
So they were noticing crabgrass because crabgrass was still like thriving and loving the conditions.
00:12:48
Plant People
yes and yes
00:12:51
Jessica
So that was like the only really green thing in their yard. So then people became obsessed with trying to control the crabgrass, which it's not the right time of year. And, you know, you could add more damage your your lawn that way.
00:13:04
Jessica
or people who are already battling Bermuda grass and you know that's the only thing they could see that was still thriving in the conditions you know wanting to control those so just that weather playing a big part in those weeds thriving and and then you know
00:13:23
Plant People
Yeah, and that's the only thing that you see green out there is the weeds. And that then once again, Jessica said it, that's not the time to even spot spray for weeds. Anytime it's you know this hot and this dry, as of recording today when we're recording this, um ah now we can't look into the crystal ball when this is going to be posting at the end of September. But if the weather continues hot and dry, that is not the the time to do any kind of weed control because the way those products work. So you may want to hold off.
00:13:51
Plant People
until you have adequate recovery and moisture, because the golden rule for weed control is don't spray a weed that's not actively growing. You're not going to have favorable results from products.
00:14:01
Plant People
In short, I mean, and you're going to, as Jessica

Challenges of Lawn Grasses

00:14:04
Plant People
said, you're going to do some damage to your lawn, or you, at the very least, you're going to add some further stress to your home lawn.
00:14:11
Plant People
Now, going in, you know, September.
00:14:13
Brett
but Can i have and I ask a question real quick about, so ah not, you know, some of, unlike you all, I i was not born knowing all this plant information.
00:14:14
Plant People
Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
00:14:22
Brett
um
00:14:22
Plant People
make it up.
00:14:23
Brett
Can you describe like what, I'm not, what does crabgrass look like and what does Bermuda grass look like? Because I think sometimes we like talk about it and people all assume that they know what it is. There's a point where I had to look it up.
00:14:35
Brett
Like people kept so talking about it. i was like, what is this? So like, what would you, how would you describe what it looks like?
00:14:38
Plant People
I guess easiest thing in Kentucky um to ah to recognize Bermudagrass, other than just doing what you said, Brett, to look it up, is I tell people to look a week after their first hard frost. And you're going to see these In a lot of Kentucky lawns, you're going to see large brown areas all of a sudden.
00:14:55
Plant People
And and that's ah that's a common phone call we get. People's like, you know, it's frosted. And two weeks later, we have these huge dead spots in our lawn. Did it kill our grass? Well, most of the situations I'll go out and look at those large dead brown spots two weeks after the first hard frost in Kentucky.
00:15:10
Plant People
And that's either Nimblewool or Bermuda. They're very closely related and they look very similar.
00:15:14
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:15:15
Plant People
They're warm season grasses. But that's the easiest way I tell people to find them is you will see them seven to 14 days after a hard frost in a Kentucky lawn, because they're going to be brown areas of your lawn and then make a mental note of where those spots are.
00:15:30
Plant People
You can also very easily look up, look up those online, but there's, it's actually very nice grass. You can mow them very close. It's soft, it's thick, it's almost fluffy, except it's got the one Achilles heel here in Kentucky zone six and seven here in in central Kentucky of it's dormant six to seven months out of the year because it is a warm season grass.
00:15:50
Plant People
And if it wasn't for that one characteristic of Bermudagrass and Nimblewille, it would be a wonderful long grass like it is down south in the southern U.S.
00:15:56
Brett
And
00:16:00
Brett
and then what about crabgrass?
00:16:01
Plant People
Oh, crabgrass. You will see it by its wavy seed heads. The way I pick it out in lawns right now, Jessica said, as she said, it's it's green now. And you'll see these sort of triangulate seed heads coming out from crabgrass.
00:16:15
Plant People
And they're angular and thin and narrow. And it's going to be putting up a prodigious amount of those seed heads right now. And it sort of looks grassy. It'll hide itself. It's low and spreading, sometimes with a lighter colored center crown.
00:16:29
Plant People
um but it's typically green when, if it's hot and dry, it's green when ah your cool season grasses are not green and and looking nice. And you'll tend to notice those June and July in Kentucky ah because that's their prime growing season for crabgrass. But you'll notice the seed heads. That's the first thing you'll see that's growing above your lawn. And that's the only spots I'm mowing now that if I have a hot spot of crabgrass, and I do in my back lawn,
00:16:56
Plant People
I don't do a lot of weed control back there. And when I see those seed heads first starting to pop up on crabgrass, I mow those because I don't want those contributing to the excess seed bed that I already have in my lawn. So I will mow those and not let those go to seed. That's my version of low impact seed ah weed control in my back lawn. It's when I see those seed heads from crabgrass, go ahead and mow those.
00:17:18
Brett
Yeah, I think i think that the idea of a cool season and warm season grasses is another thing. If you're getting into this stuff, you're fresh to it, or you haven't read about it before, that might be something else to just look up about some of the seed mixes and all that kind of stuff.
00:17:27
Jessica
Thank you.
00:17:29
Plant People
Yeah.
00:17:30
Brett
Now, Alexis, you love crabgrass. Is that correct? Am I quoting you correctly in that?
00:17:36
Alexis
Uh, if by love you mean wants to burn the ground, uh, yeah.
00:17:39
Plant People
Loathe. She said loathe, Brett, not love.
00:17:42
Brett
Oh, yeah. That's what I meant. that's Oh, loathe.
00:17:44
Plant People
Loathe.
00:17:45
Brett
Got it.
00:17:45
Plant People
Yes. Another L word.
00:17:48
Alexis
Yes, another L word, another, a lot of choice words I have for crabgrass in particular, it is the bane of my existence, but...
00:17:56
Plant People
It produces so many seeds and those seeds, once they're in the soil, ah they last for years and years and years.
00:17:56
Jessica
Thank you.
00:18:04
Plant People
I mean, they've done trials where, you know, even 30 years later, you know, they've collected seeds and I don't know the process, but they've germinated, still had a certain percentage germination rate. So that once you have them in your soil, you're going to be dealing with those for a long period of time.
00:18:20
Plant People
So don't let, if you don't like crabgrass.
00:18:21
Alexis
yeah only only thing I can say trying to look on the bright side, is it's because it kind of comes from like a rosette form where it all comes back to like one center point, it is, long as you get it before it is not, you know, three foot wide, relatively easy to pull up.
00:18:31
Plant People
Yeah.
00:18:38
Plant People
Very satisfying.
00:18:38
Alexis
Yeah.
00:18:39
Jessica
Like satisfying to weed out.
00:18:40
Alexis
Yeah. Versus, right, it's satisfying versus Bermuda, the way it spreads through, you know, rhizomes, um it can be very difficult to like manually remove, which is really frustrating if you're trying to avoid herbicide use.
00:18:42
Plant People
Yes.
00:18:49
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:18:57
Alexis
um You know, manually pulling it is almost impossible to get it all versus crabgrass. You can pretty, you can go in and confidently say you've got all of the active living plants, but yeah The seed bed is a whole other thing, which is why we have other techniques like mechanical weed control and cover crops to combat those crabgrass.
00:19:15
Plant People
Yeah.
00:19:18
Plant People
You know, if the weather, and you know, once again, we're talking about the weather as of today, we've made comments on that, but in the fall going into October, ah around October, mid October, that's some of the best times of the year, October, November to control those.
00:19:30
Plant People
And Brett mentioned that different weeds come up at different times of the year. There's summer, you know, the summer season plants weeds, and then there's a winter season weeds. Well, winter annuals germinate October, November in Kentucky, and you'll get a much better control of those if you,
00:19:45
Plant People
do some broadleaf sprays then. So don't forget that.
00:19:49
Jessica
oh We've been talking a lot about like not a negative topic, but like combating weeds, right? Something that it's like, oh, but in the, right.
00:19:57
Brett
Bring the vibe up for us, Jessica. Bring the vibe up.
00:19:59
Jessica
But

Fall Planting Opportunities

00:20:00
Plant People
Bring it up.
00:20:00
Jessica
something, you know, in the fall that some, I look forward to is opportunity to plant more trees because that's a prime time for planting trees, for dividing your perennials, sharing those around, still planting things out in your garden.
00:20:01
Brett
Come on.
00:20:17
Jessica
Cause you might think like, I'm thinking of like your flower beds and things like that garden. But there's still like plenty of time, you know, to do those kind of things. And they actually thrive better, ah especially when it comes to trees versus planting a tree in the middle of the summer is not going to be very happy.
00:20:27
Plant People
Yeah, it's a great time to do that.
00:20:35
Jessica
ah They much prefer being planted in the fall and have a better ah chance of survival, we'll say, to be positive.
00:20:42
Brett
Well, here's something negative I can say about that.
00:20:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:43
Alexis
Yeah, please.
00:20:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:45
Brett
No, I'm just kidding.
00:20:46
Jessica
Ah, Rhett.
00:20:46
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:46
Brett
I'm not bringing i'm not going to bring the vibe back down. I think, yeah, planting fall stuff in the fall and getting a nice like bed of mulch down, it's so satisfying to... have that the crisp air, beautiful pops of color.
00:20:58
Jessica
Thank you.
00:20:58
Brett
Maybe you throw a couple of mums out, maybe even some pots, maybe in the ground. Who knows? I love that. ah Like, ah yeah, some and throwing some annuals out. ah ah yeah We mentioned cover crops a little bit, but, you know, cover crop seeding time is like, man, I don't really have a space to do it now, but...
00:21:16
Brett
easter ah used to love that that time of year of just these little little short ah carpets of cover crop coming up.
00:21:23
Plant People
Yeah. Well, Charles, cover crop of choice. I know there's so many good options, um but we're entering fall. We're in fall here in Kentucky as of there, you this podcast, but what's everybody planting this year?
00:21:36
Plant People
I know we've had this discussion before.
00:21:37
Alexis
i
00:21:38
Plant People
I forget when a year took them.
00:21:38
Alexis
I actually do a mix.
00:21:40
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:40
Alexis
Yeah, I usually do a mix.
00:21:41
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:41
Alexis
I, for my purposes, i like to use that cover crop as a mulch when I take it down, so that impacts what I grow. so um like I always incorporate some sort of like winter wheat or winter rye because it creates a and really nice mat when I'm like flail mowing it down and then I can plant right into it versus, you know, and and like I'll add a legume in there or something, but ah for, you know, nitrogen fixation and for weed control.
00:21:57
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:13
Alexis
But for those purposes, I like that. If I'm not, if I know I'm going to till it in and not use it as necessarily a mulch, I'm just looking for more um you know, bio matter to go into the soil.
00:22:25
Alexis
um Then I'll go with something a little more lush. I like a red clover in my mix.
00:22:30
Plant People
Yeah, like a crimson or a red.
00:22:31
Alexis
indeed Yeah, crimson clover is pretty.
00:22:32
Plant People
Crimson winter kills a little bit more. no
00:22:35
Alexis
um And then, you know, some sort of like winter pea or something like that. um I've done vetch. I've done a vetch, winter wheat and um crimson clover mix the past couple years. And that's kind of been good across the board.
00:22:49
Plant People
If ah you look at, um I'm kind of pleased about this, but I've noticed over the last four or five years, order sources for cover crops for home gardens, even i know commercial

Mixed Cover Crops Accessibility

00:22:59
Plant People
cover crops have always kind of been a big thing, but for home gardens, it's pretty wild.
00:22:59
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:23:03
Plant People
You can get eight 12 way mixes now for home gardeners.
00:23:05
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:23:06
Brett
Oh, wow.
00:23:07
Plant People
And it's kind of wild. They'll have the peas in there and they'll have annual rye, which comes up in three to five. I mean, super fast, but it's all the things Alexis, you just mentioned, but these mixes are like six way, eight way mixes are real common.
00:23:16
Alexis
okay
00:23:19
Plant People
Now when you just jump on your, yeah.
00:23:20
Alexis
And then small quantities, you know, like if you have five raised beds, they now have quantities that used to be, you know, you have to buy 10 pounds of cover crop and it's, you don't need that, but you can buy half a pound now and,
00:23:22
Plant People
Yeah.
00:23:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:23:29
Brett
yeah or like get
00:23:32
Plant People
Yeah. It's really cool. i love it.
00:23:33
Brett
you get like five different seeds of 10 pounds each and have to mix your own.
00:23:36
Alexis
or yeah, you're like, I don't need this many turnips.
00:23:36
Plant People
Hey, they exactly.
00:23:37
Brett
And it's like, Oh God.
00:23:38
Plant People
That's where I bred.
00:23:39
Brett
Yeah. Those, those mixes became like really hot with NRCS there for a little bit.
00:23:41
Plant People
yeah.
00:23:45
Brett
And people were all about the mixes.
00:23:45
Plant People
oh yeah
00:23:46
Brett
And there was this whole question of how much biodiversity within the mix is actually even matters versus it's just sort of like a vibe, you know, it's like, Oh, I got a 15 way mix out there.
00:23:55
Alexis
dead
00:23:56
Brett
And like, three, eight three quarters of it didn't germinate. Like, okay, it's a nice stand of winter wheat and some Austrian winter wheat.
00:24:00
Alexis
Yeah.
00:24:02
Plant People
Yeah, it's ah your your old standards are the ones that are doing the job out there, yeah.
00:24:04
Brett
Yeah. But i always thought they were cool. nonetheless, um, yeah, uh, we, so Alexis, um, you mentioned rye.
00:24:16
Brett
Do you have any issues, ah with any like allelopathy and what is allelopathy?
00:24:23
Alexis
So allelopathy is going to be the natural root. um In this case, I think for rye, it's root exudates, which means it's um the the plant does not want competition, right? Right up, it's sucking up its water and nutrients.
00:24:38
Alexis
So it's going to put a chemical out into the soil right around it that is going to keep seeds from germinating, which for weed control, you can use to your advantage, right? Like ah ray Ray was saying, you know, some seeds live in the ground for 30 years, but if we can keep them from germinating, they're more likely to be, you know, killed off in some way. So people will use rye for weed control. So um I don't because I go in with ah plugs when I'm planting into a cover crop that's not been like tilled in necessarily, which is when you, once you till it in, you kind of disrupt that that little allelopathic
00:25:19
Alexis
zone it's created uh for the most part but uh if i'm going in i'm not i'm not tilling and i'm so i'm going in with plugs ah meaning that it's a plant that's already germinated so i don't have to worry about that um personally more it's more of like a i don't want to smother anything but it is something and i think for rye don't quote me on it but i want to say it's like two weeks that the allelopathy kind of stays in the ground so you know you can use that to your benefit um to keep things from germinating and then go in two weeks later and seed if you would like.
00:25:53
Brett
Yeah, people people sometimes may be familiar with walnut as just an example of like a tree where, yeah.
00:25:57
Alexis
and
00:25:57
Plant People
Yeah.
00:25:57
Alexis
ah glo
00:25:58
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:26:00
Brett
um So what about you, Jess? you the as the as the one person As the person here who's doing some actual ah size and has some fields, or I guess one of the two people, just speak for myself.
00:26:11
Brett
um As someone who's doing vegetable side though, like what's your cover crop, you know, vibe?
00:26:15
Jessica
Well, to be fully transparent and honest here, it depends on when the plastic gets pulled out ah with the raised bed.
00:26:22
Brett
Hmm.
00:26:22
Plant People
I was just going to ask you about the plastic pulling process.
00:26:24
Jessica
And that that plays into it because we've done some rye before, ah but it really depends on how late those crops go because...
00:26:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:26:37
Jessica
We might time this airs. We still might have a few tomatoes, but we will definitely still have peppers going probably at that time.
00:26:44
Plant People
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:26:46
Jessica
So that gets kind of tricky in with it because some of those cover crops you have to get in earlier than you think.
00:26:51
Plant People
Yeah.
00:26:53
Jessica
Now I can speak for my father, though, who does grow row crops. ah He does a mix of wheat and crimson clover and all of that on his fields during the dormant season.
00:27:01
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:27:04
Jessica
and But then he's also using that for cattle feed and then also incorporating, you know, with it no till um when it's rotation of corn and beans and all of that stuff. But yeah, it really depends on how long of production we have going.
00:27:18
Jessica
If we can get in and put different cover crops back on, or if we're just going to try to incorporate some organic matter in once that plastic is is pulled up in the form of like composted manure or you know something else like that, just because we still have things going a lot later.
00:27:38
Plant People
So much lighter.
00:27:39
Jessica
Yeah.
00:27:39
Alexis
that's the hardest part yeah is the if you still got things growing and like it's it's still economical right because sometimes you still have stuff growing and it's like it's five tomatoes like it's not economical it's better off to just you know finish it but if it's still economical it's hard and that's like personally something I've been like
00:27:39
Jessica
And that
00:27:59
Alexis
wrestling with with my rotation because I want, I need that on my fields. I know I need that cover crop and it just lends itself to what I'm trying to do, but it doesn't work always.
00:28:07
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:28:09
Alexis
And it doesn't work with the types of crops I'm doing. So I've had to incorporate what I'm like, basically just plastic covered beds, like silent it like a silage tarp that has no plants in them um over winter because i'm I'm doing that on the crops that were late to finish so they don't get a cover crop but I can still cover the soil and I think the ultimate thing here for people who maybe are struggling with the but I don't want to kill my peppers they're still doing good but I want a cover crop it's you know kind of trying to figure out a rotation of all right I might have two beds with cover crop two beds with just plastic so the you know
00:28:50
Alexis
soil doesn't go away and then maybe two beds in coal crops or overwintered crops and then you just kind of cycle through those things um because the as a reminder the point of sustainability is not just environmental so sustainability it's also you know economic sustainability and just like your lifestyle like farming or grow gardening or whatever has to be sustainable on multiple things to
00:29:11
Jessica
Oh.
00:29:16
Alexis
be truly sustainable because I feel like sometimes that word gets a bad rap of like well you're not doing the best thing for the environment well I'm getting a good average here and sorry I'll get on my soapbox so i should say
00:29:27
Plant People
Hmm.
00:29:28
Brett
Yeah. and And if your're if your your approach um shaves years off of your life because you're staying stressed 24-7 year round, or if all of your ligaments in your knees and elbows don't work anymore because you did this thing that's really low impact on the environment, but you are toast at 37, I have a little bit of some elbow problems from some of that.
00:29:36
Alexis
yes exactly right
00:29:45
Alexis
yeah
00:29:48
Alexis
with.
00:29:51
Alexis
but
00:29:51
Brett
um So but do you i have a question. Do you all find, you're talking about, you're trying to talk about this decision at the end of the season of like when to say enough's enough. Do you, from your cash crop or from your whatever primary target crop, do you find that ah over time and with more experience, you become more or less ruthless about saying we're done?
00:30:11
Plant People
Oh man, I'm more ruthless. I mean, I started that years ago, maybe 20 years ago, I started getting more ruthless as far as terminating crops. When I was actually growing more commercially, you know, Alexis brought up an awesome point.
00:30:21
Jessica
Thank you.
00:30:24
Plant People
Now, as ah Alexis and Jessica were talking a minute ago, of when do you terminate crops? You know, with tomatoes and peppers, how far do you have to walk to harvest that whatever quantity you're trying to harvest? Does it make sense? But Really, when I'm sick of looking at it now, I used to feel bad about taking down ah an heirloom tomato that just won't stop, that it's grown 20 foot and it still is going.
00:30:44
Alexis
I
00:30:45
Brett
We've had enough brandy wine.
00:30:47
Plant People
it's good I've got one tied to, and after this episode, I'm going to go out to my deck and there's one that's grown up into the second floor deck and it keeps going and it's got all these beautiful beefsteak tomatoes on there.
00:30:48
Brett
We've had enough.
00:30:59
Plant People
It's toast. I am sick of watering that thing. So I am team termination as far as my home garden goes. No economic decisions. ah It looks ratty. It's not as thrifty as it once was. I'm team termination, Brett.
00:31:13
Brett
about y'all?
00:31:14
Jessica
I think with us, it comes down to, because we do farmer's markets and that's, you know, every Saturday, every mid one one day, midweek, we get to the point personally where it's almost like, well, it's football season.
00:31:21
Plant People
hello
00:31:27
Jessica
We really like to watch some football and have other things going But
00:31:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:31:29
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:31:32
Jessica
We pay attention to the tomatoes. How are they going? Are they starting to slow down? And then we also do a fungicide spray schedule with our tomatoes and why.
00:31:40
Plant People
Hmm.
00:31:41
Jessica
And then as soon as we stop that, and I think I've mentioned this before on here, as soon as we decide, all right, we're We're done, you know, doing this. They're all going to go down. Right. Because they're just that's just how it works in Kentucky.
00:31:54
Plant People
Hmm.
00:31:54
Jessica
So I think that's kind of our thing. We just go out and evaluate and be like, all right, they're like, even with us doing these fungicide sprays, doing all of our regular maintenance, they're slowing down.
00:31:57
Plant People
Hmm.
00:32:04
Jessica
Right. There's fewer to pick.
00:32:05
Plant People
no
00:32:07
Jessica
Yeah.
00:32:07
Plant People
The days are getting shorter, just the sunlight, the reaction to that.
00:32:08
Jessica
The days are getting shorter, you know, and then that kind of makes it where it's like, all right, we're done.
00:32:10
Plant People
Yeah.
00:32:14
Jessica
like It's, you know, maybe go to a few other markets.
00:32:16
Brett
So, but do but do you find that to be easier or harder to do as as time goes?
00:32:20
Jessica
it's It has gotten significantly easier, but for our our life, right?
00:32:20
Brett
Okay.
00:32:22
Brett
okay Sure.
00:32:24
Jessica
Because now we have children and we have, you know, other things going on that, as we mentioned earlier, that sustainability, do you want to like work yourself to death and not enjoy other parts of life as well?
00:32:25
Plant People
Brutal.
00:32:27
Brett
Right.
00:32:35
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:32:38
Jessica
Right. So it's made it easier as we have progressed in this career of growing produce.
00:32:44
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:32:45
Plant People
You know, as we talk about balance, that's the hardest sell I've ever had in Extension, especially, well, for primarily for home gardeners. Because, you know, we see we have all these charts and all this nice information on gardening in the fall, starting out crops beginning this time of year. I'm looking at you like leaf lettuce and spinach and all the cool season crops that are there to have such incredible eating quality in the fall.
00:33:08
Plant People
But that's a tough sell. And I think it has to do with, Brett, quality of life. People have went through the season, the primary season of growing.
00:33:15
Jessica
Thank you.
00:33:16
Plant People
And at some point they're kind of done along with the plants. But I haven't worked with a high percentage of home home gardeners specifically that do that fall a segment of, you know, garden crops.
00:33:30
Plant People
And I think it's just because of what you said. I think the life balance kicks in and they're kind of done.
00:33:37
Brett
Yeah, I do. Well, I do think that, you know, one thing that people could try is to skip the summer

Focus on Fall Planting Over Summer Gardening?

00:33:44
Brett
garden. I know that sounds crazy, but what did you say?
00:33:45
Alexis
Boom.
00:33:47
Brett
Boo or boom?
00:33:47
Plant People
no
00:33:48
Alexis
I said boom.
00:33:49
Brett
Yeah, skip the summer garden.
00:33:51
Plant People
you know you What do you have against heat and sweat, Brett? Really?
00:33:55
Brett
the
00:33:55
Jessica
Can't do that. Tomatoes are king.
00:33:56
Plant People
and
00:33:56
Brett
um i'm very I'm very good at both, so I don't know what I have against it, but
00:33:57
Plant People
You must suffer.
00:33:57
Jessica
Tomatoes.
00:33:58
Plant People
you You must suffer.
00:34:00
Brett
Yeah, i'm I'm a world champion, a world sweat champion. um ah But the, I think, you know, in in the middle of the season, that's when you have a lot of folks who are really, who have a lot of stuff available, you know, like it's great to be able to walk out your back door and get that, but I'd rather go and buy it from Jessica, you know, that like, you'll let you all go out there and sweat and pick it and And then in the fall, have some kale plants, have some, some lettuce, have some stuff like that.
00:34:25
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:34:28
Brett
um But I think another thing that was ah the reason I asked about the, whether it gets easier or harder to, to, to say, you know, to say goodbye every year, it just reminds like, ah it was one of the funny things working at the, at the South farm and we'd have ah students who come out and do this apprenticeship where they spend, you you know, a hundred, I think someone just told me that a hundred hours that they work out at the farm
00:34:48
Jessica
Thank you.
00:34:50
Brett
Doing various hands on tasks are harvesting their weeding they're doing irrigation whatever. And when they come out there like their sense of like scarcity and also how how delicate they are with everything is is they're very delicate.
00:35:06
Alexis
Yeah.
00:35:08
Brett
And if they, you know, if they were going to thin beets, they're going to save all the little beet thinnings and then try to replant them somewhere else and do all

Gardeners' Approach to Handling Plants

00:35:17
Brett
this.
00:35:17
Alexis
Yeah.
00:35:17
Brett
And it was a similar thing. Cause I mean, Annie, my wife grew up gardening some, but you know, we, we did a big garden there for a while and seeing her over the course of the several years, just becoming significant, I would say significantly less precious about the things and being like, well, the, I don't have time for saving this and doing this and all, you know, all these other things.
00:35:30
Alexis
ah
00:35:31
Plant People
Every seed is precious.
00:35:35
Brett
And, um, It's just one of those fun things to see people. Cause the other thing I think is like transplanting. You'll see people handling transplants like are the most fragile thing in the world.
00:35:43
Plant People
Oh yeah.
00:35:46
Brett
And then you see these people like on the back of a setter and they're like, just hammering them in the ground.
00:35:50
Plant People
Yeah.
00:35:52
Jessica
Yep.
00:35:52
Brett
And it's like, Oh, so these things are actually pretty, yeah pretty robust, huh?
00:35:55
Alexis
People are so disturbed when they see me like pulling transplants out of a plug tray because I'm like just grabbing a fistful of whatever's above and yanking it out of the tray, which is the exact opposite of what we tell people to do.
00:35:55
Brett
Yeah.
00:36:03
Brett
yeah
00:36:07
Alexis
We're like, oh, no, you want to be gentle with the roots and massage them out.
00:36:09
Brett
Wrap it gently at the base and just massage it
00:36:11
Alexis
And like, yeah, that's true. But like, there's nothing I love more than literally just grabbing a chunk of them and just ripping 20 plugs out at one time.
00:36:14
Plant People
Nature versus nurture.
00:36:19
Brett
out.
00:36:19
Jessica
And it, it, exactly what Brett said, taking those transplants out and on a water wheel setter and just like shoving them as hard as you possibly can into the ground.
00:36:19
Brett
This isn't going to be the hardest thing that happens to you this year, bud.
00:36:19
Plant People
Tough luck. Alexis is team tough love.
00:36:22
Brett
Yeah.
00:36:30
Jessica
Right. And then there.
00:36:31
Plant People
You guys are so fortunate.
00:36:31
Brett
you
00:36:33
Plant People
You mean you got gotta to actually sit on the center? I was the one following and had some loser sitting on the center that missed every third plant. So I had to carry them with me. I had to walk. What are you talking about?
00:36:42
Jessica
I put my time in following the tobacco setter doing that, yeah.
00:36:46
Plant People
Oh yeah. We, we, we switched off. So, but Brent, that's a great point.
00:36:49
Jessica
yeah
00:36:49
Brett
So in case anybody's not familiar with this, this is a, a, a thing, an implement that comes off the back of a tractor and it's got these, uh, these wheels that you, you lower it down.
00:36:53
Jessica
you
00:37:00
Brett
And as you roll, it punches a hole in plastic or in the soil.
00:37:04
Plant People
like a slit seater, basically, essentially.
00:37:05
Brett
Yeah. It's like poke some holes. And then the, um, There's two, there can be one or two seats that actually sit on this thing and get to ride along with the tractor and you're pulling out transplants and pushing them into these holes.
00:37:17
Brett
It's a ah whole process, but then there's people who off who have to walk and it's usually they're pretty low on the totem pole. Never was there myself.
00:37:22
Plant People
ah
00:37:23
Brett
I just was immediately.
00:37:25
Plant People
and Brett never had his endear.
00:37:26
Brett
Yeah.
00:37:27
Plant People
and
00:37:28
Brett
I don't know what that's like, but you guys can share what you're, now I'm just kidding.
00:37:31
Plant People
Yeah.
00:37:32
Jessica
Thank you.
00:37:32
Plant People
It's, um, It's an old process, but good point, Brett. Yeah. When you're doing things to scale your, your tolerance for rough treatment of plants, maybe changes. I felt the same way the first time I used a dibble bar and did my first like forestry program, you know, many years ago.
00:37:46
Brett
Oh yeah.
00:37:47
Plant People
And I'm like, now be very cautious by the end of that week. And I'd planted 20,000 tree seedlings. I was like, just basically slinging them at depressions in the soil. ah You're fine.
00:37:57
Brett
Yeah.
00:37:58
Plant People
You're fine. Yeah.
00:37:59
Brett
Yeah, it's its and it's just a ah matter of of like that skill and comfort and all those things happening.
00:37:59
Plant People
Yeah.
00:38:00
Alexis
Same with harvesting.
00:38:00
Plant People
It's a,
00:38:01
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:38:04
Plant People
Yeah.
00:38:04
Brett
And and that's part of the fall to like you, you start to have this almost this sense of like, oh, it's time to put cover crop out.
00:38:04
Jessica
you
00:38:10
Brett
Oh, it's time to clean this up.
00:38:11
Plant People
Yeah.
00:38:12
Brett
Oh, it's time to do this thing. And you associate it with the football games or the cooler weather or the whatever. It's a don't know.
00:38:17
Alexis
Yeah.
00:38:17
Brett
It's just

Economic and Environmental Benefits of Cover Crops

00:38:18
Brett
an interesting inter intersection.
00:38:18
Alexis
Well, you know, the benefits of terminating something early outweigh the last of your you know energy. But even if you just look at the crop itself, like, you know, that getting a cover crop in is going to be more economic for then better for again, that going back to the three prongs of sustainability.
00:38:32
Plant People
yeah
00:38:41
Alexis
Maybe it's better to get that cover crop in than it is to, you know, pick another 10 pounds of tomatoes or whatever that is.
00:38:47
Plant People
Well, Alexis, you know, Jennifer doesn't care about the three prongs of sustainability.
00:38:47
Alexis
And so. Well,
00:38:51
Plant People
She will not let me cut those ratty flowers down in our square beds.
00:38:54
Alexis
yeah. yeah
00:38:56
Plant People
Yeah, and I so much want to go down there and throw some annual rye down or some crimson or whatever my cover crop is going to be this year. I'm itching to get that tiller out because I love it. And I want to just throw sling some soil and put some seeds down.
00:39:08
Alexis
that's where That's where you say, if I don't do it by this date, it can't get done. And then, you know, it doesn't happen. So you just kind of have to, like, you have a date.
00:39:16
Brett
that how do How would that go, Ray?
00:39:18
Plant People
It would go, would be like Alexis said so, and that may gain me some traction, but if I say so, that doesn't matter.
00:39:22
Brett
Yeah, now we're talking.
00:39:24
Plant People
that day She knows Alexis.
00:39:24
Brett
Alexis said...
00:39:25
Plant People
Alexis knows Jennifer.
00:39:26
Alexis
Alexis cuts her zinnias down by the end of September.
00:39:26
Brett
I'm...
00:39:27
Plant People
but ah But Alexis is, look, and I'll show her pictures, and you'll have beautiful flowers, and then that's going to do me in for another two weeks.
00:39:28
Brett
yeah
00:39:30
Alexis
ah
00:39:34
Plant People
So thanks, Alexis.
00:39:34
Alexis
No, my zinnias are looking pretty ratty and I don't care.
00:39:36
Plant People
Are they?
00:39:37
Alexis
Like, die already.
00:39:38
Plant People
Leaf spot, huh? Yeah.
00:39:39
Alexis
That's where I'm at. I'm like, I'm done with you.
00:39:42
Plant People
Yeah. Well, we're on the topic of flowers and Jessica started steer us in the direction of ah landscapes. We can't leave that hanging. jea Jessica started us out talking about it's great time of year to get trees and shrubs in the ground.
00:39:54
Brett
Is anybody planting any trees or shrubs this year?
00:39:57
Plant People
Well, I've got this little ah cut leaf sumac that I need to get in there. i Actually, I may wait.
00:40:01
Brett
Hmm.
00:40:02
Plant People
I got a friend who gave me this beautiful little tree that's got lots of form, but I think that I may actually grow that guy under some grow lights this summer.
00:40:05
Brett
how
00:40:11
Plant People
This winter, he's a little too tender. I'm going to grow him off. But if he was just a little bit older, I would put, be putting that tree in the ground because it is a good time to do that. But you were speaking of flowers, Alexis, what are we dividing this time of year as far as perennials in the landscape?
00:40:28
Plant People
i mean, there's Mm-hmm.
00:40:28
Alexis
Pretty much any of your herbaceous perennials, if they've gotten a little too big for their britches, can be divided this time year.
00:40:30
Plant People
bunches m
00:40:38
Brett
You said herbaceous?
00:40:38
Alexis
It's a good time of year. Herbaceous is so basically if it's think of something like a ah coneflower echinacea where there's no woody parts on it versus something like a hydrangea, it's more woody.
00:40:48
Plant People
oh Like a hostess daylily, stuff like that All those things Yeah
00:40:51
Alexis
It can be divided, but like an easy rule of thumb is sort of those herbaceous things. And, you know,
00:40:59
Alexis
Haasas, daylilies. You're not going to go divide a rose, though, right? Because the growing point is all from one area. And by divide, we mean you're taking a shovel and you're going, you're chopping through, kind of right through the middle of something.
00:41:05
Brett
Hmm.
00:41:12
Alexis
Let me do it.
00:41:12
Plant People
And that's those tough loves too. I used to be very delicate about that. And some you have to be a bit more delicate, but now with daylilies, I literally just take a dull shovel and bludgeon it until it falls apart. And it's fine.
00:41:24
Jessica
Yeah, they'll come back.
00:41:24
Plant People
It's fine. But now's the time of the year to do that.
00:41:25
Brett
Thank you.
00:41:25
Plant People
Yeah, it'll do What kind of bulbs ah as far as that is going in the ground in the fall? I mean, there's lots of those that go in now in the fall for spring.
00:41:32
Jessica
All the, yeah, everything, a lot of the things you see blooming in the spring is when you want to get them in for the fall.
00:41:33
Plant People
Yeah.
00:41:40
Jessica
um Your daffodils, crocus, tulip, what else we have? Hyacinths.
00:41:46
Plant People
Yeah,
00:41:48
Jessica
um So yeah, that's just think about anything that you normally see in the early spring and you're like, man, I wish I had some of those. You're like, that's the time to do it in the fall.
00:41:58
Plant People
I do all of that. And Brad already mentioned what mulch ah I have desperately got to get some mulch down because I did not do that this summer.

Importance of Fall Tree Planting and Mulching

00:42:06
Plant People
And we had so much rain. Most of it ended up in the street because I use the wrong type of mulch on a sloped bed that has a little bit of flow.
00:42:12
Alexis
It floated away.
00:42:13
Plant People
It did. It was not no float mulch because they all float down here apparently where my house is. ah So I've got to desperately, i I really need to get some mulch down because I don't water anything, of course, during the wintertime and I have boxwoods and things, no young plants, but um a younger lilac that needs to be mulched because I want to, you know, get the benefits of that mulch through the winter of insulation and moisture retention. So that's on my checklist as far as the landscape goes. Anybody got anything else that you're kind of any projects, lawn or landscape that's ah going down this fall?
00:42:48
Jessica
I have a nice tray of some native plants that I need to get in the ground. And as all gardeners do, we get excited and we buy a bunch and then they kind of sit there for a little bit, but they're doing okay.
00:42:53
Plant People
Oh,
00:42:56
Plant People
yeah.
00:43:02
Plant People
Like trees or shrubs?
00:43:03
Jessica
They're okay. A lot of native perennials, pollinator friendly things to add to my yard.
00:43:06
Plant People
Oh,
00:43:09
Brett
Yeah.
00:43:09
Plant People
cool.
00:43:11
Jessica
But yeah, got to get those in.
00:43:14
Plant People
Well, you got to give a plug to the pollinators this time of year too, as far as garden cleanup.
00:43:14
Brett
and what
00:43:17
Plant People
How does, how does pollinators play into that? We haven't talked about that and as far as the the way we kind of manage.
00:43:22
Jessica
ah
00:43:24
Plant People
If you're kind of thinking of pollinators.
00:43:27
Jessica
to leave a lot of your things instead of like completely cleaning your beds out. Cause a lot of like the little native bees, they like to use the twigs and stuff but um to overwinter
00:43:31
Plant People
Like I want to like I want to do.
00:43:33
Alexis
Yeah.
00:43:35
Plant People
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:43:39
Jessica
You might have, we have been something we have not talked about at our household. We have been rearing lots of caterpillars this summer. We've had swallowtail caterpillars on our kitchen table.
00:43:47
Plant People
Hmm.
00:43:51
Jessica
Now we are in full monarch mode. ah The monarchs will have already flown and done their thing times this has aired, but we have five monarch caterpillars currently living on my kitchen table on their plants.
00:44:04
Jessica
But You know, when you clean out your garden, sometimes you're ended up, you're going to clean out not only those native bees that I mentioned, but some of our butterflies and moths, they overwinter in their pupil state and cocoons and you risk, you know, removing them as well.
00:44:20
Jessica
Just like we talk about leaving your, leave your leaves out in your yard, right?
00:44:24
Plant People
no
00:44:25
Jessica
We haven't mentioned that, but a lot of critters overwinter underneath the leaf cover out in the yard, like the luna moth and ah a couple of other ones that are really cool.
00:44:37
Plant People
Yeah, so that's, ah you know I got a question last week and i was thinking cover crops in my head, but this was a native gardener and she was very much aware of, you know, the habitat.
00:44:39
Jessica
Thank you.
00:44:47
Plant People
She was becoming aware of the habitat necessary for some of our native bees in her case. But, you know, she had lots of questions on that and it made me back up and think, well, in some cases you already have enough cover out, natural cover out there, if depending on what you're growing.
00:45:02
Plant People
And then her question was exactly what you just stated, Jessica. So, you know, we kind of came up ah plan with her basically is leave things in place longer. And if she wants to do that late winter into spring, some cleanup that leaves habitat for a period of time through the winter time to get the benefit for those native pollinators. So it made me kind of stop, pause and think.
00:45:20
Plant People
ah Once again, she didn't really need a cover crop after we started talking because she had enough coverage there of the soil where, you know, it just wasn't necessary. So yeah, good point.

Overwintering Potted Plants

00:45:32
Brett
but I think one, one other, one thing we may be missing and didn't talk about, I know we're, we're getting close to time, but um some people, some crazy people have pots and plant or plants and pots.
00:45:44
Plant People
Oh, man.
00:45:44
Brett
ah I'm not talking about just bonsai though. I am talking about bonsai. But like some, people you know, some of those things are tender or they're, you know, even tropical or, so or, you know, semi-tropical or something.
00:45:56
Brett
um So like, when do you all, do you all have that? Or do you you know, talk to people who do and when, when's the timeline for that?
00:46:02
Plant People
Yeah.
00:46:04
Brett
Like, I know we we have frost dates, but there's some things that are even more sensitive than that.
00:46:08
Plant People
When I worked with nurseries, of course, they do large operations of healing in. They accumulate plants that are in pots together and they'll use something typically like a, you know, a mulch of some kind to kind of,
00:46:15
Brett
Mm hmm.
00:46:20
Plant People
make those one unit to provide insulation. i don't know, Brett, do you do anything like that? I know that you have several things in containers. How do you deal with that through the winter? I can't remember if we've talked about this before not.
00:46:29
Brett
So, so one of the things I think to keep in mind is like, is, would the plant, that plant be hardy if it existed in the ground?
00:46:40
Plant People
Hmm.
00:46:40
Brett
And if the answer is yes, then that's, that's, I treat it one way. And if the answer is no, I treat it another way. So in other words, is this thing going to, if I leave it outside, is it, would it, and it was planted in the ground, would it die?
00:46:45
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:46:51
Brett
And so those things I would typically, you,
00:46:53
Plant People
yeah
00:46:54
Brett
The healing in probably isn't going to be quite enough for that, um depending on what it is. So things like a camellia or an azalea or in the bonsai world or some of the tropic kind of tropical-ish trees, um like I guess like lemon trees and orange trees and stuff like that would be in that ballpark, I guess.
00:47:07
Jessica
you
00:47:12
Brett
I don't know. um That's not something that people tend to have in pots and sometimes, but outside. um They almost can become houseplants in some cases, or if you have a greenhouse or you have some other way of of bringing them in.
00:47:21
Plant People
yeah
00:47:23
Brett
One of the interesting things with like with the bonsai stuff ah is that the trees still prefer, especially, yeah, especially the deciduous trees. They still, but all of them now, no, even, even the deciduous trees prefer a little bit of sunlight through the winter. So it's, you know, people sometimes want to just put it in a garage or put it in somewhere like that. And I tend to leave my potted stuff outside almost the whole year.
00:47:49
Brett
um But all of those things are hardy in this environment if they were in the ground.
00:47:54
Plant People
Do you like mass them together?
00:47:54
Brett
It's the fact that they're in the pot.
00:47:55
Plant People
Did you say the one?
00:47:56
Brett
um I put them together.
00:47:56
Plant People
Okay.
00:47:57
Brett
like I have a little mini greenhouse that I put up over them, but I'm only really worried if it gets below 20.
00:47:58
Plant People
Yeah. yeah Yeah.
00:48:02
Brett
I wasn't trying to push this into this. I was thinking more of people who have banana trees or they have you know things in pots that they maybe...
00:48:08
Plant People
Well, this is the season of ah I have got to calm down on the outdoor plants that have to be moved in in the winter because I have no more space.
00:48:15
Brett
yeah
00:48:17
Jessica
you
00:48:17
Plant People
We've gotten so much.
00:48:18
Brett
calm down ray yeah yeah yeah
00:48:18
Plant People
And ah yeah, like all the amaryllis and, you know, all the typical things that I moved to the front porch and the back porch. I filled up my office. I've already started that process. And now I'm starting to dry down some plants and ah
00:48:32
Brett
oh this is a good time for me to ask so alexis i have an amaryllis that you grew that's still still rocking um what's the deal what do i do how do i how do i
00:48:44
Alexis
Yeah, yeah's that's good timing. um So when this comes out, it's perfect

Timing Amaryllis Bloom

00:48:49
Alexis
timing. you can you want that You want to force dormancy on that plant because it when it comes out of dormancy is when it signals to bloom so you're going force dormancy on it i don't have my notes in front of me as far as like exact number of weeks that's easily something you can look up but the the hardest part i think i can explain through is um by forcing dormancy you're doing that by putting it in the dark it doesn't have to be like complete darkness i put it in uh you know like my attic stairwell there's windows up there it's not a big deal
00:49:00
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:49:15
Brett
Mm-hmm.
00:49:21
Alexis
Um, you want it to be a little, maybe a little bit cooler, ah you know, of an area and you want to stop watering it. And so you, which feels like it's killing it, but remember amaryllis are a bulb.
00:49:33
Alexis
Uh, so they're going to store nutrients and all that kind of stuff in the bulb. So you're not gonna, you're not gonna kill it by doing this for a few weeks. You do this for Ray might know off the top of his head cause he's working on a program, but what is it?
00:49:45
Alexis
Nine to 12 weeks or something? Maybe long?
00:49:46
Plant People
Yeah, I usually say eight and eight, like eight dormant, and then eight to 12, just says exactly what you said. After you bring it out of dormancy until it blooms on average, it varies a little bit, I guess, from what I'm reading.
00:49:57
Plant People
So, yeah.
00:49:57
Alexis
Yeah, from paper whites to amaryllis, something like that.
00:50:00
Plant People
Yeah.
00:50:00
Alexis
So anyways, you you force it to go dormant for roughly eight weeks. And then you bring it back out. Everything's died back. You're like, this thing is not alive. What have I done? Put it in some sunny area. Put it where it's going to be warm because these are tropical plants. And then you start watering it again, just lightly.
00:50:18
Alexis
Keep the soil just lightly moist. um And then you'll see it sprout. You'll see green come up. And then with amaryllis, you're going to see a bloom stalk pretty uh fairly quickly and then it's going to feel like it takes forever to actually bloom so um
00:50:30
Plant People
Yeah.
00:50:31
Brett
so it So if it has green, like green on it right now, leave the green on it when I put it into dormancy?
00:50:35
Alexis
it
00:50:38
Alexis
yeah yeah I just let it die back naturally it's kind of how I keep a general look on is it going dormant or did I just cut the leaves off let's
00:50:41
Brett
Let it die back. Okay.
00:50:42
Plant People
Now.
00:50:46
Brett
And do I need to do anything? Do I need to top it off with any media or anything like that? Or.
00:50:52
Alexis
Um, probably not unless it's outgrown the pot. I usually just kind of leave them in their pots. If I'm going to repot something, I do that when it is the most actively growing, which for amaryllis is going to be spring.
00:51:02
Brett
Yeah.
00:51:04
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:51:05
Brett
Okay. Perfect.
00:51:06
Plant People
And I grow mine year round anymore. The last four or five years, we have several different types and um I just grow them year round. But when we bring them in, we set them on a 12 hour timer because that's what our plant lights are next to the window. They're on a 12 hour and they never stopped growing.
00:51:22
Plant People
They just grow year round.
00:51:22
Brett
So you're saying you you don't induce dormancy?
00:51:25
Plant People
No, that but now what I find, and Alexis probably has more info on this, is my bloom period is a bit more random. because I don't induce dormancy at all now.
00:51:32
Alexis
Thank you.
00:51:33
Plant People
I just, because I like the foliage of amaryllis and we like to have something green on the inside of the house.
00:51:34
Brett
Okay.
00:51:38
Plant People
why I've got too much green.
00:51:39
Brett
So do you cut it back?
00:51:40
Plant People
No, no, the leaves will naturally sinester. They'll naturally just, they'll turn yellow and die and kind of in these successions.
00:51:49
Brett
Ours just keep getting longer and longer.
00:51:51
Plant People
Yeah.
00:51:51
Alexis
Yeah, it is it is
00:51:52
Plant People
Amaryllis can get huge.
00:51:54
Alexis
They, so they're going to bloom, even if you're putting them under artificial lights, they really are only going to bloom once a year.
00:52:00
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:52:02
Alexis
Now we try and put, make them bloom in the winter, which is when um they're going to bloom in
00:52:02
Plant People
Yeah.
00:52:09
Plant People
Yeah.
00:52:10
Alexis
in their native, like, I think it's like Australia or South America or something. It's different, like, a different hemisphere. um So we're trying to keep up with that timeline of where they're native to versus what Ray is doing.
00:52:18
Plant People
Yeah.
00:52:21
Alexis
They're still going to bloom probably once every 10 to 12 months, but he's letting them choose when they do that.
00:52:25
Plant People
yeah
00:52:26
Brett
Hmm.
00:52:29
Alexis
And so he's not forcing dormancy.
00:52:29
Brett
Hmm.
00:52:30
Alexis
They're going to naturally do it. So um But it's not ah it's not always, in my my experience, which is probably less than Ray's, where I've done that, it's sometimes more frustrating to wait on them.
00:52:44
Plant People
Yeah, if you like to control things or if you're like forcing for the holidays, what Alexis said is exactly what you want to do. But I just kind of let those go natural. And I think my, ah I got two or three types of amaryllis now that I thought were pretty small.
00:52:59
Plant People
And on average in the wintertime, I'll get a bloom period in the winter and then one mid to late summer. But they're kind of spread out. Like Alexis said, they're random.
00:53:05
Brett
how
00:53:07
Plant People
But there the bloom stalks on those are 48 inches tall.
00:53:08
Alexis
And the species. Yeah.
00:53:10
Brett
okay How?
00:53:10
Alexis
I mean like race.
00:53:10
Plant People
They're huge.
00:53:11
Brett
Okay. How big of a pot is this in?
00:53:13
Plant People
i've got I've got like six or eight pots of those now, and they're probably four to six-gallon pots.
00:53:19
Brett
Oh, wow.
00:53:20
Jessica
oh
00:53:21
Plant People
but in But each pot is 20 to 30, so in some of those bulbs are huge.
00:53:24
Brett
Oh, so you're doing them as like a little a little grove.
00:53:27
Plant People
I do clusters.
00:53:27
Alexis
I have mine in like a big window box.
00:53:28
Brett
I see. a little grove
00:53:30
Plant People
You have yours in window boxes?
00:53:31
Alexis
Yeah.
00:53:31
Plant People
Yeah.
00:53:31
Alexis
Yeah. I have like 10 of them in a window box, but like they, you don't,
00:53:32
Brett
i see I'm glad that you were also surprised, Jessica, because I felt like an idiot.
00:53:36
Jessica
I am. I, I have a very sad one on my back porch right now. And I've just kind of been like saying like, let's see what happens. Cause it's going to go along with, I haven't mentioned this to you all yet.
00:53:43
Alexis
yeah
00:53:46
Jessica
I have a poinsettia that I've never repotted. It's in the foil. I've had it for three years and it's huge.
00:53:51
Plant People
Oh, wow.
00:53:52
Jessica
Yeah.
00:53:53
Plant People
Love it.
00:53:53
Brett
All right, let's go.
00:53:53
Jessica
And we're just seeing if the poinsettia is just going to keep doing it. So amaryllis, Franken amaryllis experiment as well.
00:53:59
Plant People
Amaryllis gets, they get huge when you grow them through and I, and I do the bulbs for programs and Alexis knows I'm kind of cheap. I don't like to, but that's way I grow bulbs for programs too. And I have some started at the office. have 50 or 60 bulbs going right now.
00:54:13
Plant People
But yeah, I'm very curious about the poinsettia. I've never grown those. i know you can, but I've never grown those over through the season. So cool.
00:54:20
Jessica
Fingers crossed. It's still thriving. It's kind of a mean experiment to leave it in the same container.
00:54:24
Plant People
And you just bring it in and inside.
00:54:26
Jessica
No, it just, it's just stayed in my, my house at a window.
00:54:26
Plant People
your
00:54:28
Brett
you're trying You're trying to bonsai the constricting its roots.
00:54:29
Plant People
Oh.
00:54:31
Jessica
i think I have.
00:54:32
Alexis
husband
00:54:33
Plant People
Yeah.
00:54:34
Brett
i like that
00:54:35
Plant People
But this end of season, yeah, you have to make all these decisions on your plants that you have outside.
00:54:35
Jessica
Accidentally.
00:54:39
Plant People
Like Brett was saying a few minutes ago, you have to make that decision before the you know, the first frost.
00:54:45
Brett
so So just check, take a look and and and check and see what the temperature, because I'll just monitor the temperatures.
00:54:45
Plant People
Yeah.
00:54:50
Brett
And it's so it's, I don't bring it in by date.
00:54:51
Plant People
Yeah.
00:54:52
Brett
I bring it in the first time that it's going to get below 50 at night for some of the stuff that's really sensitive and below whatever, 45, but 20s where I watch watch out for stuff that's hardy, but is in a pot.
00:55:05
Plant People
Yeah.
00:55:06
Brett
<unk> s Awesome.
00:55:07
Alexis
so
00:55:07
Plant People
yeah
00:55:08
Alexis
Cool. So, quick, quick recap. Don't cut down all of your native plants, leave them for the bugs and the birds. ah If you've got ah plants in pots, figure out what their hardiness is. Are they ah tropical or are they something that would survive in the ground here? And then treat those two differently if you have the ability to put in cover crop it's a great thing to do but overall cover the soil somehow so living roots are the best way next would be a natural mulch third would be like a plastic so that your soil doesn't run away with the wind and snow um what else
00:55:51
Alexis
one more.
00:55:51
Plant People
Oh, lawns and landscapes.
00:55:51
Alexis
Plant your trees, divide your perennials, plant your trees, and then don't spray your weeds ah quite yet
00:55:52
Plant People
It's yeah. Plant your trees.

Key Fall Gardening Tips

00:56:01
Plant People
When, uh, if your lawn is stressed, don't spray and do get your fertilized down in October. November is the best time to fertilize. And if you need to do any kind of reseeding spot reseeding or larger scale reseeding, do that during the cool seasons of the month.
00:56:02
Alexis
your lawn.
00:56:15
Jessica
And soil testing along with that.
00:56:15
Plant People
That's usually September beginning of October. yeah Oh, thank you, Jessica.
00:56:19
Alexis
Yes.
00:56:20
Plant People
How,
00:56:21
Alexis
Great, Jessica.
00:56:21
Plant People
Could we forget that in this conversation this long into the conversation? Thank you.
00:56:26
Brett
and Ray is the Amaryllis King and Alexis does not love crabgrass.
00:56:26
Alexis
You get your results
00:56:31
Plant People
Yes. In summary.
00:56:32
Alexis
i think I think we've nailed it. If you guys have any questions about you know what you should be doing in fall or you know maybe what cover crops are best, we do have some resources on our CCD. We have a really, i use it all the time, like personally, a calculator for cover crops. And so like whether you're doing four by four raised bed and you want to know how much winter wheat you can put in there, you can put those numbers in and get that all the way up to acres and acres. so And it's got a bunch of different options for you. So I just like to recommend that because it's something that can be really helpful If you're not quite sure where to go.
00:57:03
Alexis
But if you've got questions about, you know, anything we talked about today, feel free to reach out to us via our email. You can find that in the show notes. ah Follow us on Instagram at Hort Culture Podcast. You can shoot us a message over there if you've got any questions.
00:57:17
Alexis
um And we are happy you guys were with us today. We hope that as we grow this podcast, you will grow with us and have a great one. See ya.
00:57:34
Plant People
Thank you.