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Saving Seeds, Sharing Stories
103 Plays1 month ago
In this episode of Hort Culture, Alexis, Brett, Jessica, and Ray dive into the art and heritage of seed saving. Together they explore the practical side of harvesting and storing seeds—from tomatoes and beans to peppers and flowers—while mixing in the deeper cultural roots behind the practice.
They unpack the difference between heirlooms and hybrids, self- vs. cross-pollinated plants, and why choosing the healthiest specimens matters. Along the way, listeners get hands-on tips for drying, labeling, and storing seeds, plus fun detours into plant oddities like vivipary (seeds sprouting inside fruit) and the secret life of green bell peppers as they ripen red.
Beyond the garden, the crew reflects on the historical and cultural significance of seed saving—from Kentucky’s proud heirloom traditions to immigrant communities carrying seeds across continents as a way of preserving heritage. The episode highlights seed saving not just as a gardening skill, but as a way of keeping stories, biodiversity, and family traditions alive.
It’s equal parts botany lesson, garden how-to, and cultural reflection, served up with the group’s usual humor and gardener confessions.
Seed Saving in Georgia Gardens: A starter guide for schools, communities, and homes
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Humor
00:00:17
Alexis
Welcome to Whore Culture. We're live on the scene. ah That's only funny if you are watching this on YouTube because I feel like, oh, well, you know, Brett, I laugh at your jokes.
00:00:23
Plant People
ah watching the video yeah
00:00:24
Brett
even Even then, I don't think it's funny.
00:00:26
Jessica
Thank you.
00:00:32
Brett
That's your problem. That's one of your character flaws.
00:00:34
Plant People
that's not his fault
00:00:35
Alexis
That's like the second time today somebody was just for about or something random and be like, that sounds like a you problem. and I was like, wow.
00:00:43
Jessica
Thanks.
00:00:43
Alexis
Okay.
00:00:44
Brett
I'm just kidding. It was funny.
00:00:45
Alexis
Yikes.
00:00:45
Brett
I'm sorry.
Outdoor Podcasting & Seed Saving Introduction
00:00:46
Brett
I'm sorry.
00:00:46
Alexis
And from my teammates, the reason I bring that up is because I am currently podcasting outside and I got my sunglasses on and I'm feeling very, with my mic, feeling very news anchor-y.
00:00:58
Brett
yeah look
00:00:58
Alexis
um I'm on the live on the scene of Hort Culture Podcasts today.
00:00:58
Brett
you look at yeah yeah You look very cool.
00:01:00
Jessica
You're on the scene.
00:01:03
Plant People
Live action.
00:01:03
Jessica
yeah
00:01:04
Brett
recent A recent cut in color that's up in, maybe just cut, it's up now, but you look ready to go.
00:01:10
Plant People
Some highlights.
00:01:13
Alexis
Recent cut?
00:01:13
Brett
you look ready to ready to go
00:01:14
Alexis
Yeah. I'm feeling um it's a vibe.
Seed Saving Admiration & Practices
00:01:17
Alexis
ah It's a vibe and it's the perfect vibe to talk about seed saving, which is what we're doing today, folks. Talking about them seeds.
00:01:23
Plant People
I mean.
00:01:24
Jessica
Right.
00:01:25
Plant People
Anybody that has waited long enough to save seeds at this point, I admire you. I get so, guess I just basically, I cut my tomatoes down at a point.
00:01:31
Alexis
yeah but
00:01:36
Plant People
You know, I get so tired of them producing, I mean, or or slowly producing.
00:01:38
Jessica
right
00:01:41
Plant People
They look so ratty. I just dispatch with them. So kudos to you home gardeners that if you're seed savers, you're letting your vines and the the fruit on those vines really, really mature.
00:01:49
Alexis
Thank you.
00:01:51
Plant People
But I ah need I need to cut them down usually when they start to look bad. I don't know if it's a switch over my mind to fall or what. I don't know.
00:01:59
Jessica
not
00:01:59
Alexis
i I think of it as like, a you know, if you accidentally didn't cut it or you went away or you forgot about it, whatever. It's just for seed saving, baby. Just like with um with when all your weeds come up, it's just a cover crop. You're just going to tilt It's all fine.
00:02:15
Plant People
It's fine. You just mow it. It's soil erosion abatement.
00:02:16
Jessica
a good positive way to think about this.
00:02:17
Alexis
Welcome to fall, Alexis. She's just like, whatever works, man. Just call it a cover crop and roll with it.
00:02:23
Plant People
Let's go with it.
00:02:24
Jessica
this still...
00:02:25
Alexis
ah You forgot to harvest those flowers? Ah, that's okay. You left it for the pollinators and they left you with some seed that you're going to now save.
00:02:30
Plant People
Self-seeding.
00:02:34
Alexis
so
00:02:35
Brett
Don't call it a cover crop.
00:02:36
Jessica
That's right.
00:02:36
Brett
been there for years.
00:02:39
Plant People
Been there taking care of itself all this time. And and that's what plants do. i was i was ah so, um I guess, inspired when I was younger because I noticed these tomatoes, you know, they were just where we had the tomato patches a year before, if especially if we rotated away from it.
00:02:55
Plant People
I mean, I was like, where are all these baby plants the next year coming from? Nobody seeded them here.
00:02:59
Alexis
and
00:03:00
Plant People
And my dad's like, that's just nature at work. And I guess there's a lot of truth to
Heirloom Seeds & Preservation Efforts
00:03:04
Plant People
that.
00:03:04
Jessica
Life finds a way, right?
00:03:04
Plant People
ah Life finds a way. So I'm like, I mean, um if mother nature can do it, how hard could it be? Oh, was I wrong?
00:03:11
Alexis
ia I occasionally get some compost and it'll have you know some tomato seeds in it from wherever.
00:03:18
Plant People
Yeah.
00:03:18
Alexis
And I always let one... i dig it up and I pot it or I put it in my garden or whatever just to see what it does. And it's a great example of... um
00:03:29
Plant People
Not coming back to her just now?
00:03:29
Alexis
you know These random seedling and what it becomes versus like what I've planted.
00:03:31
Plant People
Hmm.
00:03:33
Alexis
of and that's like of seed saving. One of the things is you don't always get back what you think you're going to get.
00:03:39
Jessica
Right.
00:03:42
Jessica
Right. So, you know, why do we want to you know, keep the seeds and stuff, right? Like we think about that. One, you might have a tasty tomato that you discover, but there's some rules with seed saving as we've already kind of talked about, but like we want to keep these seeds because, you know, maybe it's something that has been passed in our families for a year.
00:04:02
Jessica
They can be very, um, like how a fairly, ah fairly, a family heirloom. Right. And that kind of plays into the kind of seeds you want to keep like the heirloom seeds.
00:04:09
Brett
Literally.
00:04:10
Plant People
That's a big one.
00:04:13
Brett
Oh.
00:04:14
Jessica
Like, Ooh, look at that. Thanks.
00:04:17
Brett
I like that.
00:04:17
Jessica
Okay.
00:04:17
Brett
yeah yeah know I think, you know and and maybe people are aware or they're not aware, but like Kentucky has a huge heirloom seed tradition um across the state, but I think a lot of people are maybe are more familiar with the the eastern part of the state having about a variety of different crops.
00:04:18
Plant People
Yeah. People take a lot of pride in that, I think.
00:04:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:04:35
Brett
So yeah, I think that's... That's a but we were out, um you know, there's been some flooding in the eastern part of the state over the last off and on for the last half a decade, basically.
00:04:47
Brett
And one of the things that was really sad was that a lot of people lost their family saved seeds.
00:04:51
Plant People
Yeah.
00:04:52
Brett
And there's been some efforts from folks out there at the Robinson Station station um that hopefully we'll have some guests on from there in the next few years.
Pride in Heirloom Seeds & Open Pollination
00:05:01
Brett
I mean, the next few weeks. lamb
00:05:03
Jessica
Thank you.
00:05:04
Brett
But ah they were trying to grow seeds, basically grow seed to save to then redistribute out to the community there um to get that heirloom process going again.
00:05:14
Brett
So I think that's a hugely important part.
00:05:16
Plant People
Super cool. And there's so much pride behind families, you know, whether it was an apple tree that somebody did not know what the variety was, or it was a unique variety that a family named, or whether it was a favorite purple tomato or greasy bean and all of their variations.
00:05:31
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:05:32
Plant People
i mean, there's a lot of pride that families and individuals took in these unique, you know, fruits and vegetables ah that they kind of claimed as protected and and brought forward one generation to the next.
00:05:47
Plant People
It's really cool, the history behind some of these.
00:05:47
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:05:49
Plant People
And I know, yes, there's a story behind those.
00:05:49
Alexis
Telling a story.
00:05:51
Jessica
Mm-hmm. huh
00:05:52
Plant People
And I know Tennessee and some of the Carolinas and areas, ah Brett mentioned specifically the Appalachian region or mountainous regions. They have a long history of that, but just history across the state of Kentucky in doing that. I think it's super cool because of um the care and pride that kind of goes into that. People that have brought these things forward for whatever reason.
00:06:12
Plant People
I know, Years ago, I can imagine 100 years ago, it was probably from a very pragmatic, kind of very practical perspective of why, yes, you absolutely had to do it.
00:06:19
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Had to do it.
00:06:22
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:06:23
Plant People
And that would have been at a time where there wasn't a lot of hybrids. We'll talk more about that later on, I'm sure. Wasn't a lot of hybrids. Everything was open pollinated, came back true to top. So it was, you know, you could save them and they come back with the same qualities and characteristics year after year.
00:06:38
Plant People
So, so cool.
00:06:39
Alexis
I have this year, had a seed swap, got some Celosia seed and it was just like labeled Forkland comb Celosia because it was from Forkland, Kentucky.
00:06:40
Plant People
So cool.
00:06:51
Alexis
And um I talked to the person who who brought that seed and she said, well,
00:06:52
Plant People
Yeah.
00:06:56
Alexis
It's just I got it from somebody else who got it from somebody else in Forkland and it's just a plan that's been coming up. So I'm expecting a very traditional old school like bright celosia
Cultural Impact of Seed Saving & GMOs
00:07:08
Alexis
color. um Originally, they were all kind of like circus colors, you know, like really obnoxious reds and stuff.
00:07:14
Alexis
So I'm kind of imagining something like this very traditional And um I'll post a picture of it, but I have been so pleasantly surprised and it's so exciting. And I imagine little stories when I pick it of like, you know, who, who you know, wanted this or had this in their yard.
00:07:29
Alexis
It's the most beautiful, like mauvey, pink, never seen this color before i'm obsessed with it and i'm gonna try and save some seed because like i have to have this forever it is the it's just the perfect shade that you don't find in catalogs and uh now i have to have it forever
00:07:45
Brett
Would you call it would you call it a dusty pink?
00:07:48
Alexis
it's It's a little more burgundy than that, but it's in that like spectrum of dusty pink. like So if you if you go a little bit deeper, a little more darker, then yeah, it's it's like right in there. And i I have been just in awe of of what it looks like. And I just got it at a sweet seed swap.
00:08:05
Alexis
So it's fun.
00:08:07
Jessica
Yeah. Saving seeds can be fun and you can get some like cool things like that. Right. I mean, right.
00:08:11
Alexis
Use your imagination. You make up little stories as you pick it.
00:08:15
Jessica
Right.
00:08:16
Brett
Well, why else?
00:08:16
Plant People
Or give it unique names and make it your own.
00:08:17
Brett
i'm i'm yeah I'm not familiar with the other like some of the other – I've mainly been aware of the socioccultural the sociocultural reasons for sharing – or for saving seed.
00:08:20
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:24
Alexis
you
00:08:27
Brett
do there other like Do other people do it for other reasons besides it's cool?
00:08:33
Alexis
um Besides it's cool. I mean, that's how we got a lot of the varieties that we have and is, is, you know, seeds.
Tomato Breeding & Genetic Modifications
00:08:41
Alexis
Even if you think about like um I always, of course, go back to flowers, but peonies, ah what people all the breeding to this very day being done in peonies is from people crossing them and then they save that seed and grow that seed out. And so we we see that with tomatoes. We see that with just about everything.
00:08:59
Alexis
um There's very, there are plenty, there are fruits and things like that that have come from sports, which is just like the plant magically creates something like literally it feels like magic magically create something different.
00:09:11
Alexis
Like the Ruby red grapefruit is a good example of that or certain apples will do that. But I think a lot of the things we've got these days, people tend to think they're GMOs when really they're just a product of people who have saved seed and done their own little breeding projects.
00:09:27
Jessica
but Plant breeding. Yeah.
00:09:29
Plant People
yeah
00:09:30
Jessica
Yeah. You can see that with, um I think we look at like corn, especially corn being one of those crops that is GMO. But if you look back at what the original ears of corn looked like with crossbreeding that, you know, hundreds of years, right.
00:09:44
Plant People
Yeah, it didn't look like that.
00:09:46
Jessica
It looks very different. And that was all just, you know, breeding those plants, crossing them. So yeah.
00:09:52
Alexis
Oh my gosh. That's reminds me. We have a new, maybe we should have him on the podcast, a new faculty member in the department of horticulture here at UK. Um, and I can't believe I just blanked on his name.
00:10:05
Alexis
I got so excited to tell you about all the things he told me that I just, yes, Manoj, um, he is from Nepal.
00:10:07
Brett
Manoj?
00:10:10
Brett
Manoj? I never heard him say it.
00:10:12
Alexis
Yeah. He's really awesome. Uh, and he did, uh, some research. He's a plant breeder specifically for nutrition here at UK, but he's done a lot of plant breeding in the tomato world.
00:10:24
Alexis
And they were able to like get a hold of genomes or something from like what tomatoes were originally before humans got involved to breed them.
00:10:33
Jessica
Wow.
00:10:34
Alexis
And they were able to look at all of these different stages of like the tomato breeding And how we like how it changed, like the flavor profile changed to become what it is, what we think of tomatoes today.
00:10:47
Alexis
And like we bred it to be savory, like it's, you know, amongst
Heirloom vs. Hybrid Seeds
00:10:52
Alexis
color and all of these other things.
00:10:52
Jessica
it's
00:10:53
Alexis
But like from a flavor specific, we did that humans did that and bred them to be more savory and go in that direction. And I was just like he was telling me that and I was in awe on the floor.
00:11:05
Jessica
It's so, yeah, it's so interesting to see that, to see how plants and everything originally started out.
00:11:06
Alexis
So exciting. yeah
00:11:12
Jessica
Because like, you know, you said you think about flowers, but I also just thought about poinsettias to be like going like way off, kind of like top of here.
00:11:17
Brett
Amen.
00:11:19
Jessica
But there's pictures of, you know, what the original poinsettia looked like when it was discovered in, ah believe it was in Mexico is where they originate from.
00:11:27
Plant People
Yeah, I think so, yeah.
00:11:29
Jessica
And it looks nothing like, i mean, it looks like you can say it's a poinsettia, but it's like compared to what we see now being sold in the stores.
00:11:31
Plant People
No.
00:11:34
Plant People
The leaves look similar, yeah.
00:11:37
Jessica
Like you would be like, is there something wrong with that thing? Right.
00:11:41
Alexis
yeah
00:11:41
Jessica
But that's just how it originally looked, you know?
00:11:44
Brett
Shout out to Dr. Manoj Sapkota is his name.
00:11:47
Alexis
Thank you, Savkoda.
00:11:48
Brett
He's in the –
00:11:48
Alexis
I was sorry. Minoj, if you hear this, I'm sorry. I was just so excited about the cool things you told me that I completely blanked.
00:11:53
Brett
we'll have to or have to have him on. you know Jessica, hearing you and you talk about the kind of –
00:11:55
Alexis
He is awesome. yeah
00:12:00
Brett
pre-Columbian exchange, as they call it, before things were taken back. You think of Italian food, Alexis, Italian.
00:12:08
Alexis
yeah
00:12:08
Brett
and The other day I was eating some Greek food and they had tomatoes in there. And you know you close your eyes and think about what Italian food is One of those you know essential pieces is the tomato, which is something that came from the New World and was brought from that area, from South America and you know north ah Central North America, back too Europe, probably through the process of seed saving.
00:12:23
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:12:24
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:12:25
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:12:36
Brett
Because you know the journey was so long, the plant would have probably died on the way or like gone through its full life cycle.
00:12:39
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:12:40
Alexis
no
00:12:41
Brett
and um So I think that you know that idea of like seed saving is part of this. ah you know In that case, it's a ah mixed history of colonial exploitation along with cultural sharing.
00:12:50
Alexis
a Yeah.
00:12:54
Brett
But um I think it's been an important part of just like when you go to a new place and you have some seeds from home, there's also that you know aspect of it too, that it's a way to create a garden. There's a lot of um refugee and other just immigrant folks in the United States who are doing these gardening projects and they when they can get their hands on seed or bring seed from their eggplant or their style of cassava or whatever it is.
00:13:13
Jessica
Right.
00:13:17
Brett
It's really cool.
00:13:18
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:13:18
Brett
and And so it's just another element of that what you were talking about earlier, Jess.
00:13:23
Alexis
It's heritage.
00:13:23
Jessica
Yeah. Yep. It's the heritage with it.
00:13:24
Alexis
And, you know, we think about art and stuff as that, but like seeds are and food. We know food is, but like food comes from something, right? So seeds.
00:13:33
Jessica
Right.
00:13:33
Alexis
But yeah, that's a like, oh, we're getting off.
00:13:36
Jessica
Yeah.
00:13:36
Alexis
We're talking about like how you might actually do it today, but that's just the why is so important.
00:13:36
Jessica
Well, right. So if you, If you do have some tomatoes hanging right? like what is the process we go about doing this? You know, there's a, there's a couple of rules with seed saving and they've kind of been mentioned already about heirloom versus like a hybrid, right? If it's a hybrid tomato that you have grown, you know, to keep in mind with how things cross, that's not going to come back true.
00:14:03
Jessica
And Alexis, and then you guys can elaborate more because you have more of that bank of horticulture knowledge, the botany brain.
00:14:03
Plant People
i
00:14:07
Plant People
I always look for those keywords, um, either.
00:14:08
Alexis
The botany brain.
00:14:10
Brett
So like, what is what is, is ah you mean like, what is a ah hybrid versus an heirloom versus some other thing?
00:14:11
Jessica
um
00:14:17
Brett
Is that what, is that, because I could use, I could use some insight.
00:14:17
Alexis
Jim.
00:14:18
Jessica
Yeah. Do you want to roll with that or do you want
00:14:23
Alexis
um
00:14:24
Brett
Who are you pointing to?
00:14:25
Jessica
Oh, I pointed. Yeah. You can't see who I'm pointing Alexis. Cause she has the botany brain.
00:14:29
Alexis
she
00:14:29
Jessica
You can't tell which person I'm pointing to where you're at on my screen.
00:14:31
Alexis
the the bot The botany brain I usually use the um like Labradoodle example ah For like hybrids So a Labradoodle is an example of a hybrid Where it's a poodle and a lab you know a Labrador That have been crossed to create a Labradoodle And
00:14:38
Brett
um
00:14:47
Brett
Is that where the name comes from?
00:14:51
Alexis
Yes. um And then a Labradoodle and a Labradoodle make another Labradoodle. And so you get these like first and second generation. So you may see like, yeah, F1, F2.
00:14:59
Plant People
F1s, F2s, yeah. Yeah.
00:15:02
Alexis
And what that's referring to, if you've received it all on a packet, is just like the generation of hybrid. it is is So is it a poodle and a, is its parent a poodle and a Labrador or a Labradoodle and a Labradoodle?
00:15:07
Plant People
Yeah,
00:15:13
Alexis
And so, you know, that's kind of, you know, one, huh?
00:15:15
Brett
And this is hybrid.
00:15:17
Alexis
huh
00:15:17
Plant People
a hybrid.
00:15:17
Brett
is hybrids.
00:15:19
Alexis
Right, hybrids, right, versus like an heirloom um is going to be true to seed. it is the It is the parent, it is the poodle, it is the Labrador. um Nothing creates, yeah, and nothing creates it.
00:15:29
Brett
Pure bread.
00:15:29
Jessica
Thank you.
00:15:32
Alexis
And so it's... it's going to come back true unless it's something that can be cross-pollinated, which totally flubs up everything.
00:15:36
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:41
Alexis
Not every plant will cross with another plant, um but like that's how you can have a squash plant, a yellow squash plant beside a watermelon plant. If you save seed from either one of those, you will have squash melon the next year, right?
00:15:56
Alexis
So again, a hybrid.
00:15:57
Jessica
I'm, I'm experienced in growing squash from, uh, yeah, from squash and, ah gourds being next to each other.
00:16:00
Alexis
Squash.
00:16:01
Plant People
yeah
00:16:01
Alexis
Yeah.
00:16:05
Alexis
yeah
00:16:05
Brett
or
00:16:06
Plant People
You always look for two keywords, either heirloom or open pollinated, usually on seed packs.
00:16:11
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:11
Plant People
If you're reading seed packs and the the danger words, if you're a seed saver is as far as seed saving goes, true to type is that word hybrid or anytime you see like F1, which an F1, Alexis said, that's the first generation result of the cross.
00:16:17
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:30
Plant People
And those are premium products, but it's only true to top for that F1 generator.
00:16:34
Jessica
Thank you.
00:16:35
Plant People
Those are hybrid. So anything says hybrid. or f one Those are things that you have to have a specific parent parental cross or it does not come back true to type, regardless of the pollination. But the easy things that we save in gardens are usually self-pollinated.
00:16:51
Plant People
That's ah the keywords, self-pollinated or heirloom.
00:16:52
Alexis
Yeah.
00:16:55
Plant People
That's your giveaway that those are seeds you can probably focus on. That's your classic big three, which is what? That's tomatoes, beans, and peppers.
00:17:02
Jessica
Right. Beans. Yep.
00:17:04
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:17:06
Jessica
yeah
00:17:06
Plant People
And you could put peas in there, too. if you ah There's more of a ah history of ah folks saving peas in other parts of the country, I know, but peas fall into that under that, too.
00:17:13
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:17:15
Plant People
They're pretty easy to save, aren't they, Jessica? Peas are?
00:17:18
Jessica
Yes, the peas and like you said, the those big ah the big three I think about are the beans, peppers, and the tomatoes for sure.
00:17:23
Plant People
I don't know.
00:17:26
Jessica
um Versus your other, i would say your riskier ones of saving are going to be any of those cucurbits, corn being wind pollinated, right?
00:17:32
Plant People
Yeah.
00:17:32
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:17:33
Plant People
Anything wind pollinated. Yeah.
00:17:36
Jessica
All of those are going to be a lot harder to get it to come back true. Now you might discover something new and great, but you know then again, you're like, I might not get this the next year.
00:17:43
Plant People
Well,
00:17:45
Brett
Well, I was going to ask, as ah as a former precocious child and ah pain to many of the adults in my life, I haven't grown out of some of my habits.
00:17:47
Jessica
you know
00:17:47
Plant People
yeah.
00:17:48
Alexis
yeah
00:17:55
Brett
And one of my habits or one of my you know things is like… Yeah, I kind of believe you, but I kind of don't believe you. Like, what's what's going to happen? Like, in the if if if you save the you save the hybrid does it just not does it just not grow or does it what What happens?
00:18:05
Plant People
wow that's tough with the F1 hybrids. That's a great.
00:18:08
Alexis
I can tell you i can tell you my experience.
00:18:12
Alexis
Yeah, so know I've got, i told you, I save, I usually let one tomato seedling I dig up and save that's compost.
00:18:14
Plant People
No, sometimes it's,
00:18:21
Alexis
And um I don't think that it's going to produce at all, this plant that I don't know anything about. ah It's huge. The plant is massive.
00:18:32
Alexis
And it's right next to and being treated the same way as some some that I grew from seed and some heirlooms that I grew from seed. And it's twice as big, but I don't think is it will fruit.
00:18:45
Alexis
And it has, act you know.
00:18:46
Jessica
I actually clocked that the other day when I was over there.
00:18:47
Alexis
Yeah.
00:18:49
Plant People
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:18:50
Jessica
I saw your giant tomato plant with nothing on it.
00:18:50
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah, I just, you know, experimenting and seeing what it is. And it's like rambling all over the place. And it finally has some blooms, which in theory means it could produce fruit.
00:19:02
Alexis
But compared to its neighboring, you know, pot neighbor tomato, that's got nice tomatoes on it. i So I don't think it will even produce. And that's most likely because someone had a hybrid like big boy or something like that.
00:19:17
Alexis
And, you know, it fell and and just got turned in or something. So.
00:19:21
Plant People
That's what confuses gardeners because sometimes with hybrids or F1s, there's a dilution effect.
00:19:22
Jessica
Thank you.
00:19:28
Plant People
And some the F2 cross, the second generation, may be 99% of the desirable characteristics, but I guarantee you with a hybrid,
00:19:40
Plant People
It'll be a dilution factor every single year. Some, you know, that that second generation, if you try to save in hybrid seed, it may be 95% true to top, you know, desirable characteristics.
00:19:51
Plant People
But it also may, it stands an equal chance being 35% desirable characteristics.
00:19:55
Alexis
It's your like Punnett Square Going back Speaking of peas Punnett Square
00:19:56
Plant People
Yeah.
00:19:57
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
00:19:57
Plant People
Yeah. You just never know. Yeah.
Seed Saving Techniques & Tips
00:20:01
Alexis
Oh never heard Punnett Square
00:20:01
Brett
um Shut up, Gregor. Shut up, Gregor Mendel.
00:20:05
Plant People
ah So you're, you're team punit, not team punit. I've, I start arguments with that all the time. Punit square versus punit square.
00:20:10
Alexis
oh i've never heard punit square
00:20:12
Jessica
hu
00:20:13
Brett
I never realized that Ray was a punit pundit.
00:20:15
Plant People
I am a punit punit. I am. And it was ah this old English botanist. That was a speaker from England that came to Bree and did special topics in my ah advanced botany course. And he pronounced it punit.
00:20:26
Plant People
and I was like, have I been wrong all this time?
00:20:28
Alexis
He probably also said clematis, so I don't want to hear about it.
00:20:29
Plant People
unit yeah He did. He did say clematis and he,
00:20:31
Brett
Yeah, and he probably had like a ah diagram on the behind him of his Punit square that was made out of aluminium. aluminium
00:20:38
Plant People
Yes, aluminium.
00:20:38
Alexis
Yeah.
00:20:39
Plant People
Yes, and I think so.
00:20:40
Brett
So take it elsewhere.
00:20:41
Plant People
But that...
00:20:41
Alexis
He probably called things bins and boots.
00:20:44
Plant People
and Strange, strange nomenclatures there.
00:20:46
Brett
so So anyway, we've gotten off on a lot of exciting things about plant genetics and and hybrids and all that kind of stuff.
00:20:47
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:51
Brett
But the bottom line that I'm hearing from you all is if it says it's an heirloom, if it says it's open pollinated and you know that, then it's a ah good candidate for saving seed.
00:20:57
Plant People
Yes.
00:21:00
Plant People
And then if it's...
00:21:00
Brett
If it is a hybrid, don't waste your time.
00:21:01
Jessica
Yes.
00:21:04
Brett
Just get new hybrid seed next year.
00:21:04
Plant People
Don't try because it because the variability is just not worth it. The investment that you're, and if it's a self-pollinated ah plant, like a tomato, I mean, the those are super easy. Those are like the easiest, Jessica already mentioned the easiest of the easiest.
00:21:18
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:21:18
Plant People
ah That's the self-pollinated.
00:21:19
Brett
And those are some of the classic varieties like a brandy wine or a Cherokee purple or like those types of things tend to fall into that category.
00:21:20
Plant People
Yeah. yeah
00:21:22
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:21:23
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:24
Jessica
Yep.
00:21:25
Brett
Is that right? Okay.
00:21:26
Plant People
Yep.
00:21:26
Alexis
Yes, you will sometimes get a very excited bumblebee that will accidentally cross pollinate those plants because they can get in there.
00:21:27
Jessica
Yeah.
00:21:27
Brett
Okay.
00:21:27
Plant People
Love them. Love them.
00:21:37
Alexis
The flowers are small. But yeah, ah if you want something that's true to type with very little work, you want something that is close pollinated.
00:21:44
Plant People
and And it's one not to get too much in the weeds on that, but it's fascinating. Even though a plant has both male and female flowers, it's not self fertile. So genetically, I mean, to distill things down, you know, in simple terms, like it can't cross with itself, but it can cross with itself very similar of another type.
00:21:59
Plant People
So it keeps the the type very tightly, you know, controlled. So it's interesting.
00:22:04
Alexis
Nature is crazy.
00:22:05
Plant People
It is when you get into it, ah yeah, keep it simple.
00:22:06
Jessica
It's amazing.
00:22:08
Alexis
But if you're wanting to save seed, you're wanting to save seed, yeah. And we're at the point, you know, we could talk, maybe we do a whole spring episode about like how to keep things true to type.
00:22:13
Plant People
Yeah.
00:22:19
Alexis
So zinnias, for example, are open pollinated, which means if you have a red one next to a yellow one, in theory, you're square, they they can cross pollinate and give you orange ones and more red ones and more yellow ones, but you won't know until they grow, right?
00:22:29
Plant People
um
00:22:33
Alexis
um So we could have like a whole session on sort of like how to keep, you know, your corn from being cross pollinated, what the distance is, but that's more of like a spring chat. There's nothing you can do about it at this point.
00:22:33
Plant People
yeah
00:22:43
Alexis
So this point in the season, right, this point in the season, it's exciting because now you're like, ooh, what am I going to get?
00:22:44
Jessica
Right. You're going to get what you're going get now.
00:22:46
Plant People
Yeah.
00:22:50
Alexis
ah So do we have like those of you who may have done some seed saving of various things, any tips to give people and what you saved?
00:23:01
Jessica
um i would... look at, well, I guess the question I get a lot is about ah with them is like, how long are these going to last? Or kind of like the...
00:23:11
Plant People
yeah.
00:23:12
Jessica
the um storage wise, like how like once you harvest them, so like just thinking of like a tomato, and I've seen this done several times.
00:23:23
Jessica
A lot of times with the tomato, you're going to like often look, I keep hopping around, but you're going to like look for the healthiest plant possible. Let's start there.
00:23:30
Alexis
Yes.
00:23:30
Jessica
Okay.
00:23:31
Alexis
Yes.
00:23:32
Jessica
We're going to look for ah very healthy plant. You don't want to go out there, even though your garden is probably going downhill at this point, maybe, unless you're like super starved.
00:23:40
Alexis
Jessica's saying that for my own benefit because she recently did a farm visit for me and I was like.
00:23:43
Jessica
No, no.
00:23:44
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:23:45
Jessica
it's It is the time of year, right? um But you're going to try to pick from the healthiest plant. You don't want to pick anything that has potentially could have disease on it that could carry over into that next year or maybe not make those seeds viable or that can carry over and you're just spreading disease around your yard, your garden the following year.
00:24:06
Jessica
So and something from the healthiest one, a nice
00:24:07
Alexis
right
00:24:11
Jessica
Good tomato. Maybe it's a little past its prime right to eat, but that's okay. And then for the tomato, you're just basically and going to cut it up and let it set for a couple of days. Have it sliced.
00:24:22
Jessica
Let that seeds like kind of dry out naturally around, around the tomato.
00:24:23
Plant People
I like
00:24:29
Jessica
ah but I can't talk gunk innards.
00:24:31
Alexis
The pulp, like the pulp
00:24:32
Jessica
it the Yes. and
00:24:34
Brett
i like gunk better, personally.
00:24:34
Jessica
Before. Yeah.
00:24:35
Alexis
ah like gunk, yeah
00:24:36
Plant People
bank.
00:24:37
Jessica
Yeah. Before taking them.
00:24:38
Brett
lets Let that gunk dry out.
00:24:38
Alexis
This is a chill podcast.
00:24:39
Jessica
and It's very chill today.
00:24:40
Brett
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:40
Alexis
We can take gunk.
00:24:41
Jessica
We're all over the place. But before you just take them and ah keep them in a cool, dry location, also write down what they are.
00:24:53
Jessica
That's very important as well.
00:24:55
Alexis
Key.
00:24:55
Brett
Yeah.
00:24:55
Jessica
Hey, make sure you store them, you know, old spice bottles, other, you know, a container you can store them in versus being out in the open. I say this from experience, not for me, but my husband saved hot peppers and left them laying out in an area where mice enjoyed them all winter long.
00:25:13
Jessica
So, um you know, make sure you put them in some sort of container once they are completely airtight.
00:25:14
Alexis
yeah
00:25:21
Alexis
Ideally, like an air... I mean, it could it could be airtight, but like um if you're not going to go airtight, if you can put them in a safe space that's not going to be eaten by mice, a lot of the time you can keep them in like a paper bag or something that breathes.
00:25:28
Jessica
uh-huh
00:25:35
Alexis
So it kind of has to be one extreme or the other. um The benefit of the airtight, of course, is that you are not going to have rodent problems because But also if they aren't super dry, they can rot, right?
00:25:49
Alexis
um So the other thing that like once you do have them dry and you have them in a container of some kind, then you want to keep them generally cool um is, you know, for most most people like throwing them in the crisper drawer of the fridge is going to be ah great place. And mine is currently full of seeds and cheese.
00:26:09
Alexis
Yeah.
00:26:11
Brett
So, so just just back up and and and for me to visualize.
00:26:11
Plant People
Of course it is.
00:26:14
Brett
So you take like a tomato in this case, and you're saying you cut it up and let it kind of essentially rot a little bit, the the fruit itself brought a little bit in place.
00:26:22
Plant People
Yes.
00:26:22
Jessica
huh Yeah.
00:26:24
Plant People
What?
00:26:24
Brett
And then are you
00:26:25
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:26:25
Plant People
Three to five days, two to two to four days.
00:26:27
Plant People
I've heard it both ways, but yeah.
00:26:28
Brett
and then you're, you're then removing the individual little seeds from that and storing those or you're storing the whole thing?
00:26:35
Plant People
There's a couple.
00:26:35
Jessica
Just, ah well, I was going to say, i've my experience has been removing the seeds, maybe spreading them out a little bit, maybe for an extra day, like on a paper towel or something.
00:26:39
Plant People
Yeah.
00:26:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:26:45
Jessica
and then I'm just storing the seeds, like i said, in a container.
00:26:46
Brett
Gotcha. Hmm.
00:26:48
Jessica
Or like Alexis mentioned, the paper bag that's breathable.
00:26:51
Plant People
Some people add just a little bit of water and the good seeds will, i don't don't ask me how it works, but there's a definite reason. Add just a little bit of water to that gel and the good seeds tend to sink down.
00:27:03
Plant People
So you can discard the gel and the good seeds will go to the bottom almost every
Methods for Saving Different Seeds
00:27:07
Plant People
time. And that's a good way to weed that out initially.
00:27:08
Alexis
It's because they have an embryo and they're heavier.
00:27:11
Plant People
Kind of the egg yolk effect.
00:27:12
Alexis
That's why.
00:27:13
Plant People
But it's interesting that that gel is I mean, it keeps the seeds from germinating, but you're not worried about that this time of year. That's mother nature taking care of the seeds. But yeah, soak that three to five days.
00:27:22
Alexis
You also may run into, don't freak out, because the amount of times I've seen people post on Facebook or send me video so photos of their tomatoes, they cut it open, and that like the seeds are germinating.
00:27:22
Plant People
and
00:27:32
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:34
Alexis
that is not That is not chemical warfare.
00:27:36
Plant People
It happened. Yeah.
00:27:38
Alexis
That's called vivipery.
00:27:40
Brett
i vipoy ah am i I knew that word.
00:27:40
Alexis
It's a fun word to say.
00:27:43
Plant People
its impressive when you see
00:27:43
Alexis
Vibri and that is a very natural thing in nature It has nothing to do with GMOs It has nothing to do with you know spraying round like you know pesticides So I just felt like I had to say that in case of course all of our listeners know that that's not true But so that you can you know a new fun word you can tell other people
00:27:56
Brett
It's a misunderstood...
00:28:03
Brett
It's misunderstood interpretation of the seasons and what's going on.
00:28:06
Plant People
Yes.
00:28:07
Brett
The plant thought, the seed thought, okay, it's moist.
00:28:07
Alexis
Right
00:28:10
Brett
It's kind of warm. Let's go.
00:28:12
Plant People
Yeah.
00:28:12
Brett
it turns out still inside the fruit.
00:28:12
Jessica
and Right.
00:28:12
Plant People
the compounds that inhibit germination of some time.
00:28:12
Alexis
yeah Yeah.
00:28:14
Jessica
Let's reproduce.
00:28:15
Alexis
It's ah it's like ah yeah when a baby comes out early, it's like, I'm ready, let's do this.
00:28:20
Brett
Yeah, premie it's a preemie. It's just a preemie.
00:28:22
Alexis
It's just
00:28:23
Plant People
So I guess that that's what I'm saving seeds. That's sort of how I divide it my head, kind of the wet process seeds, which are what else? i mean cuka I mean, those are more advanced. I'm not saying save those, but things like tomatoes, cucumbers, squash, melons, that's the wet process stuff. And the dry process stuff would be like what?
00:28:40
Plant People
Um, yeah, green beans.
00:28:40
Alexis
Beans, peas,
00:28:41
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:28:42
Plant People
Yeah, exactly.
00:28:43
Alexis
Those things that like can dry out on the plant in the shell.
00:28:43
Brett
Corn?
00:28:46
Jessica
And
00:28:47
Alexis
You can kind of forget about it. And then when you're ready to terminate them because they're all dried up, you go, oh, look, free plants, free seeds.
00:28:53
Jessica
and you just rip them all in and take them and pop them out their shells.
00:28:53
Plant People
a
00:28:58
Plant People
If the rattle, if you hear that rattle, very good sign for the dry process, uh, seed savers.
00:28:58
Alexis
Yep.
00:29:03
Alexis
Mm hmm.
00:29:03
Plant People
When you hear that rattle, that means full maturity has been reached.
00:29:07
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:29:07
Alexis
What about peppers? Who has, Jessica, you said Sean's done some peppers um before.
00:29:11
Plant People
Hmm.
00:29:12
Alexis
Was there like anything key about peppers that he latched onto that it was ready to harvest for seed?
00:29:13
Plant People
Yeah.
00:29:19
Jessica
Well, if one, if you are ah you doing spicy peppers, wear gloves from experience.
00:29:26
Alexis
yeah
00:29:28
Plant People
Oh, yeah. Goodness, girl.
00:29:29
Alexis
Just a reminder, wear gloves.
00:29:31
Jessica
But you should allow them to completely ripen on the plant if possible until they turn like a nice red color. You want like fully mature, right?
00:29:37
Alexis
and
00:29:39
Plant People
Hmm.
00:29:39
Jessica
And sometimes that's a little hard because they can get a little over mature.
00:29:43
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:43
Jessica
you going to say something, Alexis?
00:29:45
Alexis
I was going to say, ah what do we know about green bell peppers? They turn red eventually.
00:29:50
Jessica
Yes, yes.
00:29:50
Alexis
So...
00:29:52
Plant People
It takes a while.
00:29:52
Brett
And Alexis does not like them.
00:29:52
Alexis
Don't a lot of people and i do not like them.
00:29:53
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:29:54
Brett
And Alexis does not like to eat them.
00:29:56
Alexis
um Yeah. Look at Brett pulling out some knowledge there. Yes. ah Green bell peppers. People tend to think are will only ever be green. Not true. They will ripen fully and they will become red.
00:30:09
Alexis
So, you know, fun fact there for
00:30:09
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:30:10
Brett
Yeah, well and but the the and the interesting thing about that, just for people's i kind of, so there are, all of them will turn red, but there are certain ones that are bred in order to be harvested green.
00:30:18
Alexis
Correct.
00:30:21
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:30:22
Brett
And if you let them turn red, they will get like woody.
00:30:23
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:30:26
Brett
and gross.
00:30:26
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:30:27
Plant People
Yeah.
00:30:27
Brett
And there are other ones that are meant to be harvested red and they need to be grown until they ripe them, but they will look, and but many times they will look green that whole time. And so it's interesting and like ah ah pe a poblano pepper
00:30:37
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:30:39
Plant People
Yeah.
00:30:42
Brett
and an ancho pepper are fundamentally the same thing they're just one is ripe and an ancho is ripe and then smoked um and it's the same way with a chipotle pepper is a mature fully mature jalapeno that has also then been smoked that's what chipotle and are there these different stages of the same pepper just a fun little fun little tidbit um
00:30:50
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:30:59
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:31:05
Jessica
And a little, you know, something else about peppers that kind of goes with that spring talk as well, that they can sometimes are usually self-pollinating. It's usually like nothing to worry about. However, as you can tell, i have a lot of experience with spicy peppers because apparently that is what we do.
00:31:24
Jessica
um They can, they will, sometimes you can get a spicy um bell pepper.
00:31:30
Alexis
Looks like a bell pepper but tastes like a jalapeno.
00:31:32
Jessica
You can get, yeah, but I'm talking about like ghosts and, you know, all of those, those things and because the, the hot pepper gene is more dominant.
00:31:37
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:31:42
Jessica
So it'll show up.
00:31:43
Brett
um
00:31:44
Jessica
ah So got to keep that in mind with those. And again, even if you're saving seeds from bell peppers, it's a good idea to wear gloves. And wash your hands and stuff afterward. Don't touch your face when doing those.
00:31:56
Jessica
But really simple to save those because you're not leaving them in that pulp or anything because you're just taking them out, let them dry on a paper a paper towel, and then you're good to go with them.
00:32:01
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:32:08
Alexis
Flowers are usually even easier for any of you interested in that because you don't ah have any juicy pulp that you have to deal with. So um flowers are usually something that you're going to wait until you can physically, most of the time, physically see the seeds starting to shed or the flower is brown.
00:32:27
Alexis
And that means it is either pollinated or itself or has been pollinated depending on what kind it is. And then you can harvest that and, um you know, If you're worried about one thing, if I know I really want to harvest a certain flower head because that plant just was way healthier than any of the other ones. And I want i want seed from that.
00:32:48
Alexis
I will take a little um drawstring, like ah people know them as like little jewelry bags. They're the met little very fine mesh bags.
00:32:55
Brett
Reminder.
00:32:57
Alexis
and i will use that to cover a flower. They come in a bunch of different sizes, even when it's like you know healthy and um not ready to be harvested, because number one, it's a visual impact for me to make sure that I cut that for that purpose.
00:33:02
Brett
hu
00:33:11
Brett
reminder
00:33:11
Alexis
It also helps keep you know any bad insects from going in there and destroying that seed or it being eaten by something. um And then when you cut it, all that seed that might be shedding is staying in that little bag, so you can just cut it and hang it up and forget about it until you're ready for it.
00:33:27
Alexis
as long as's as it's in like a cool dry place. And so flowers are are pretty easy. They do often cross pollinate really easy. Again, that's a spring talk issue, but um they're easy to harvest and ah usually pretty successful to start the next year. Not everything is easy to save and be have good, ah what's the what do they put in seed packets? The germination rate.
00:33:52
Plant People
Yeah.
00:33:53
Brett
Yeah.
00:33:53
Alexis
They don't all have good germination rate.
00:33:53
Brett
Can I, can I ask you a question about that? So um on the flowers,
00:33:59
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:34:00
Brett
you know when we have vegetables, like, like a tomato or a pepper or whatever, there's a flower that can then gets pollinated. And usually by the time, generally by the time the thing is ready to harvest the pepper or the tomato or whatever, the flower petals are gone.
00:34:15
Brett
And it's just kind of that base that has been pollinated and turned into something else.
00:34:16
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:34:20
Brett
So with a flower, when you're saving seed for a flower, by the time you're saving the seed, are like most of the petals are completely gone and it's just this like fruiting body thing that's there?
00:34:32
Brett
Or like what ah I realize it's probably different depending, but I never.
00:34:35
Alexis
Yeah, it's yes, yes and no. So it it is very species dependent. So like a zinnia, the petal will stay connected to the seed um basically until you take it off most of the time. it rarely...
00:34:51
Alexis
ah comes comes off by itself versus something like celosia which is in related to pigweed ah it's an amaranth those little tiny seeds just kind of fall out of the floral um body it's not really petals so pretty much everything is different um so there's no there's no easy answer to that but um if you're not sure you can like shake it over a bucket and if things dislodge it's probably like ready to be harvested
00:35:08
Brett
Yeah,
00:35:18
Jessica
Thank
00:35:21
Brett
yeah I just think of the flower as like this reproductive structure that
Seed Storage & Cultural Significance
00:35:25
Brett
is the precursor to seeds and then some other thing follows behind.
00:35:25
Alexis
Yeah.
00:35:29
Brett
And I was just, I had never thought of it that way before.
00:35:31
Alexis
Yeah.
00:35:32
Brett
brief Brief side note, there's a song I'd like to recommend to our audience called Cool Dry Place by Katie Kirby that reminded me of that.
00:35:37
Alexis
Yeah.
00:35:40
Brett
Katie Kirby, Cool Dry Place, it reminds me of this time of year.
00:35:43
Plant People
Proper seed storage.
00:35:44
Brett
It's, you know, keep me, keep me in a cool dry place. Those are your seeds singing to you through Katie Kirby.
00:35:50
Plant People
Remember, your seeds are living. They're not dead. They they respire.
00:35:53
Alexis
and for
00:35:54
Jessica
ha
00:35:55
Plant People
So they have respiration. So slow that down. You don't want that to happen real fast.
00:35:59
Brett
So I'm storing...
00:35:59
Plant People
And I guess, Jessica, that makes them last longer if you put them in that cool.
00:36:00
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:36:02
Brett
Yeah.
00:36:02
Jessica
Yeah.
00:36:03
Plant People
Is that what it is? Yeah.
00:36:04
Jessica
Yeah.
00:36:04
Plant People
You slow down respiration.
00:36:04
Jessica
And, and some, and some seeds are longer lived than others. Right.
00:36:10
Plant People
Yeah. Do you have some numbers there somewhere?
00:36:10
Jessica
Um, so and not necessarily numbers off the top of my head, but like,
00:36:14
Plant People
yeah I can't. I don't remember.
00:36:16
Jessica
Like we talked about already, like tomatoes and stuff. They're like why they're so easy to keep, but then they also store for a really long time. ah i trying to think of what other ones.
00:36:28
Alexis
I always think of it like a rule of thumb as, and again, it's a rule of rule of thumb here. It's not perfect. The bigger the seed, the less like it it it feels the opposite. The bigger the seed is the less storage time it has. So like corn has some of the, like is only like a year.
00:36:44
Alexis
Like you really want to use that first.
00:36:46
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:36:46
Alexis
um Like beans and stuff, they they kind of break the rule. But in general, the bigger the seed, the less time you have to store it, which seems the opposite of what you should be.
00:36:57
Alexis
Because you're like well, there's more food there.
00:36:58
Plant People
Yeah.
00:36:59
Alexis
But um it's it's kind of more surface area.
00:37:00
Plant People
More surface area, too.
00:37:00
Brett
like like dogs Like dogs and dudes.
00:37:02
Alexis
Yeah, but...
00:37:04
Brett
The bigger they are, the softer they are.
00:37:06
Plant People
I'm trying to find this. I think it's Knott's handbook.
00:37:07
Jessica
So
00:37:08
Alexis
why I have corgis. Yeah.
00:37:10
Brett
Exactly.
00:37:11
Jessica
so yeah, like
00:37:11
Plant People
I have a...
00:37:11
Brett
Bully old bear, 85 pounder.
00:37:15
Plant People
oh I'm trying to find the thing.
00:37:16
Jessica
So like a general rule has like but of five years or more, right? You could get out from like a tomato.
00:37:21
Plant People
Yeah.
00:37:23
Jessica
But then yet I know people who are like, I've had these seeds for 15, 20 years that I've been using, right?
00:37:28
Alexis
Yeah.
00:37:29
Plant People
Yeah, determination rate may vary.
00:37:31
Jessica
ah The germination of a berry versus like your median live seeds that are more...
00:37:33
Alexis
Right.
00:37:37
Jessica
um Some of those peas, maybe some squash and stuff there, at least you're going maybe be lucky to get three years out of them. But then that, like Alexis said, especially corn, ah onion ah is usually what you get one year out of it.
00:37:52
Jessica
And then it's then then you really don't need to put all your faith into it Right.
00:37:52
Plant People
Yeah. Okay.
00:37:55
Alexis
on the flower perspective uh just to update if you're thinking about what seeds you're going to buy and you grow flowers straw flower is not great germination rates from year to year so you can buy a packet of seed and 95 of them germinate out of that pack and even if you store them perfectly they are not super viable um and if you Don't be like me and run into situations where there's no good straw flower seed to be found because everybody has bought it and you thought you had some and you did technically, but it does not germinate.
00:37:56
Jessica
Right.
00:38:28
Alexis
So ah sometimes it's just not your fault. just
00:38:32
Brett
So as far as, as far as like germination rates and reliability of this and stuff, I'm, I'm, I'm just thinking like there's a potential that some people would want to do this to like save money on seed and to, to have basically, I mean, like the old way that, um, there's a whole, uh, a whole saying about short sighted strategy of eating into reserves is called eating your seed corn.
00:38:43
Plant People
Hmm.
00:38:56
Brett
Um, because you're supposed to be saving that for the next year and not eating it, uh,
00:38:57
Plant People
Hmm.
Self-sufficiency & Community Engagement
00:39:02
Brett
Is there, is there like, in your experience, do you think there is like an economically, a reliable enough process that economically you would rely on this? Or is it, is it more just kind of a fun story and fun vibe?
00:39:18
Plant People
I think the economics would be, I mean, I'll give a case in point that sort of nuanced Brett is, you know, growing up, greasy beans, they brought double of what half runners or Romas would bring.
00:39:30
Plant People
And for us, it was economics because, you know, we had old, I guess it was called old fashioned, you know, I think white greasy bean it was called, whatever version of greasy bean it was, but it brought double the money. So for us to save those seeds and people would ask for those by name because not very many people had them.
00:39:48
Plant People
My dad didn't share those with anybody. ah So we sort had the market cornered on those guys. I mean, people could, of course, buy, though, but my dad was not selling the mature ones, so nobody would get the seeds.
00:40:00
Plant People
He was very careful about this. But for us, it was economics. We had a unique product, but now I know that's not the typical case. ah He also saved it because his family had had those in his family for generations.
00:40:13
Plant People
But that was a greasy bean, and it was worth a lot when we sold those at market for, you know, a few people around that knew what they were looking for. So for us, it was practical and it had an economic impact.
00:40:25
Plant People
But as far as working with people in general, it seems like a point of pride, ah more so than an economic thing, just from my personal observations there at the office currently, you know, just people in general.
00:40:29
Jessica
Mm-hmm. huh
00:40:38
Plant People
There are some farmer's market people that, save, you know, open pollinated varieties that are heirloom because they're not readily available year to year consistently or the orders are placed so far out, you'd have to order them two years in advance and they they keep them for that reason.
00:40:56
Plant People
So I guess it just depends, but more so for, you know, like a pride perspective than anything else, I think.
00:41:02
Alexis
for For flowers, um you know people who run across certain colors or forms that they like, there's a huge um ah huge push in flowers that there didn't used to be for breeding efforts, for different colors and forms of things.
00:41:20
Alexis
ah So you know there's there's just a big movement for seed saving ah in that way. And so I think if you were if you had something special, yes, it could be very economical.
00:41:29
Plant People
Yeah.
00:41:30
Alexis
or if that seed is really expensive because it's super special and hard to find, then yeah, of course.
00:41:30
Plant People
Yeah.
00:41:33
Plant People
and
00:41:36
Alexis
But really from a homeowner's standpoint...
00:41:37
Jessica
Thank
00:41:39
Alexis
Probably not. It's again, point of pride. It's exciting, uh, from a farming standpoint, maybe if it was special, but you know, I couldn't see myself saving seed from the everyday thing when I can buy a packet of it.
00:41:46
Plant People
yeah
00:41:52
Alexis
I know the germination rate, I know it's been treated properly and it costs, you know, even if it were to cost $10, it is going to save me a lot of time and effort.
00:42:01
Plant People
yeah
00:42:03
Alexis
Um, i you know I couldn't produce that much seed for $10 because it's a lot to process a seed. If you ever process a tomato, you'll be like, hmm, was this what I wanted to do?
00:42:09
Plant People
and
00:42:13
Plant People
one
00:42:14
Brett
Yeah.
00:42:14
Plant People
Maybe not.
00:42:14
Brett
And I mean, it it takes like to to me, the thing, yeah, there's the the time and the energy and everything else, but there's also the big the big R word of risk that at every stage along the process, you have the mice come in and eat the seed or they you know do this or do that, or you put um but all the seed out that you thought was good and it's actually not viable and none of it comes up and you're too late to order and it's sold out everywhere.
00:42:26
Plant People
Yeah.
00:42:32
Alexis
Yep.
00:42:33
Jessica
yep yep
00:42:33
Brett
Like that makes me nervous.
00:42:35
Plant People
mean.
00:42:35
Brett
But I think you know one of the areas I've heard seed saving and and some of this stuff come up is um there' it's ah it's not a ah a monolith of cultural ah practice, but there are people on a spectrum from what we might call preppers
00:42:51
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:42:51
Brett
All the way to people who are just sort of skeptical of some of the sustainability of some of our long-term systems to say in a world where you can buy seed for $10 a pack, it makes no sense. But I think based on what I'm seeing that maybe that's not going to.
00:43:07
Brett
be the the case for you know for forever. And so I want to know how to seed save in order to support my homestead or those types of things.
00:43:12
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:43:15
Brett
It's it's just an interesting cultural phenomenon of the... I think there's always been preppers. like There's always been people who think that this is the end or this is the whatever.
00:43:21
Alexis
you We just didn't have TV shows about them......................
00:43:24
Brett
Yeah, we just didn't have...
00:43:26
Jessica
We just know about them more now.
00:43:27
Brett
have history channel document, you know, uh, pseudo documentary shows about them and all all of that stuff.
00:43:27
Jessica
Yeah.
00:43:32
Plant People
You're talking about my family, Brent.
00:43:32
Brett
But, um, but I, I mean, I think that there is a reasonable, ah discussion to be had about like, are there these skills associated with self-sufficiency that we're just losing through a marketplace of convenience?
00:43:47
Brett
And what does it mean? Like, It's one thing to choose not to do it when the option is there to learn. But if this is a lost, becomes a lost art, a lost practice, then suddenly we don't really even have the option anymore.
00:44:00
Brett
And so I think, I think that's an interesting part of the seed saving conversation that we
00:44:04
Plant People
I enjoy this discussion. Like you, what kicked it off years ago for me was with master gardeners, but it sparked from a, you know, a botany like education standpoint, it's a wonderful botany lesson.
00:44:15
Plant People
And it's a, it's a great kind of a sounding board for people exchanging ideas. Well, why can't we save this? Or why shouldn't we, or why can we save this and not that and the life expectancy and all of that.
00:44:26
Plant People
It's a great lesson in botany, if nothing else, that helps.
00:44:30
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:44:30
Plant People
um It's always good to have a good foundation for home gardeners or commercial operations. That's why one of the reasons I love the seed saving topic for me personally is it's just, you know, great to compare and contrast. Yeah.
00:44:44
Plant People
Economically, is it always worth it? Well, no, but it's, so you know, we're in the business of adult education for the most part, at least ah in my neck of the woods. And I think it's a great discussion to have for home gardeners.
00:44:55
Alexis
And hopefully it will never like, you know, be totally lost because we have people like Jessica who are literally planning a class on this.
00:45:00
Plant People
Yeah. They're doing it.
00:45:04
Alexis
And so she is putting that out there for people who are interested and will probably continue doing it as long as people say, hey, one or two people can say, hey, and then, you know, you keep offering it.
00:45:08
Plant People
Love it.
00:45:16
Plant People
I love it. Love it.
00:45:17
Brett
I will also note there are several ah seed exchanges in the state
Podcast Conclusion & Listener Interaction
00:45:23
Brett
and across the region that usually happen in the late winter, early spring.
00:45:23
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:45:29
Brett
And so ah theyre there, at least for the last number of years, was one in Pikeville, ah Kentucky.
00:45:34
Plant People
Yeah.
00:45:35
Brett
There's one up in, i believe, somewhere in southern Ohio, Kentucky. ah But they're all over the place, these these seed exchanges. I know that one of our extension agents, um Amanda Sears, organized a seed library down in the Richmond, ah Madison County area.
00:45:42
Plant People
um
00:45:51
Brett
And so there are opportunities if you, even if you don't want to save your seed or you don't want to, you don't have something you're growing that you could save right now, next year, instead of just going on the seed catalog, you could theoretically go to one of these seed exchanges and pick up some seed and think about growing it um
00:46:08
Plant People
I know the libraries do that.
00:46:09
Alexis
Check your local library.
00:46:09
Plant People
You got heirlooms.
00:46:10
Alexis
Yeah, a lot of them are are starting to to do that um and and have stuff.
00:46:12
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:15
Alexis
We did one Boyle County too and have some great volunteers who would love to see you have that seed.
00:46:18
Plant People
I think Clark Boyle Clark bourbon.
00:46:22
Brett
Yeah. And there's some, there's some some treatments and things that you can do to make sure that no disease gets spread.
00:46:22
Jessica
yes
00:46:26
Brett
And maybe we can cover that, you know, next spring, but, uh,
00:46:27
Plant People
Yeah.
00:46:28
Alexis
Yeah, we can at least drop some publications in there on like, you know, at home seed treatments.
00:46:29
Brett
and
00:46:32
Plant People
Yeah.
00:46:34
Alexis
Yeah.
00:46:35
Plant People
Cause only certain diseases transfer through the seed, but you want to avoid those.
00:46:35
Brett
yeah.
00:46:38
Alexis
Right. Yeah.
00:46:39
Brett
Yeah.
00:46:39
Alexis
Yeah. We can put those in the show notes for you.
00:46:41
Brett
So, so to, to briefly recap what I think I learned, uh, so there, there are the, the juicy seeds the dry seeds.
00:46:51
Plant People
Yep.
00:46:52
Brett
Juicy ones are the ones that have gunk.
00:46:53
Alexis
The gunky. Mm
00:46:54
Brett
Yeah.
00:46:54
Plant People
And specifically tomatoes require a specific process to get rid of the the gunk.
00:46:55
Jessica
Gunk.
00:47:00
Alexis
hmm.
00:47:00
Plant People
Yeah.
00:47:00
Brett
Yeah. And then if it's, so if it's a wet one, you kind of want to leave it in that, in that fruiting body to, for a couple days to just steep, then remove that, spread the stuff out, let it dry like on a paper towel or something like that, and then transfer it either to ah breathable paper bag, if you can protect it from other things or an airtight container and then store it in a cool, dry place.
00:47:07
Plant People
Yeah.
00:47:10
Alexis
if
00:47:24
Brett
Is that
00:47:25
Alexis
Cool dry place.
00:47:26
Jessica
Yep. yep
00:47:27
Brett
And then for the dry ones, they're a little bit easier because they kind of process themselves into the dried seed.
00:47:33
Plant People
yeah
00:47:35
Brett
And so that's peas and beans and, ah you know, dent corn and stuff like that, that it dries out and becomes this, you know, hard a capsule of of ah plant magic.
00:47:37
Plant People
Yeah.
00:47:47
Brett
that you can also then store in a similar way. When you're selecting plants, you want to choose a healthy plant, ah ideally free of disease, and maybe with some of the characteristics that you're, you know, big fruit or right whatever.
00:48:03
Brett
um And for flowers, Alexis, can you give us the recap on flowers?
00:48:09
Alexis
Flowers are pretty easy. ah They are often cross-pollinated, but ah you basically just want to wait till they're starting to shed their pieces and parts and they're ready to go. And i usually recommend putting a bag over them before they start to shed.
00:48:26
Alexis
um That way, they don't you don't lose everything that way. so
00:48:33
Brett
Well, I learned a lot.
00:48:33
Alexis
But yeah, easy. Easy peasy. Lemon squeezy.
00:48:37
Brett
If I were yeah i would i would be attending if i were you know a mercer County resident, I would be attending Jessica's class on seed saving
00:48:37
Alexis
Squeeze your lemon seeds out.
00:48:43
Brett
for sure
00:48:46
Jessica
Thank you.
00:48:47
Plant People
When is the date of that class? Jessica, have you already got a date set?
00:48:48
Jessica
It is coming up in September 9th. Does that make sense?
00:48:53
Alexis
andly
00:48:54
Jessica
So early September.
00:48:55
Brett
Yeah. Okay.
00:48:56
Plant People
Wonderful.
00:48:56
Brett
okay
00:48:56
Alexis
Okay. If you are a Kentucky resident, um I can't speak for other university extension systems, but if you're a Kentucky resident and you would like to see seed saving opportunities in your county, maybe reach out to your county extension agent and say, hey, I'd love to learn more.
00:49:13
Alexis
And I will bring a friend and more than likely they'll say, that is such great information for me to have. I appreciate that feedback and I will execute it. because and if you haven't had that experience try again or go to your neighboring county and ask them all right well we thank you guys for being here ah with us today follow us on instagram at hort culture podcast maybe i'll throw up if anybody's got uh ray if you've got a picture of a greasy bean that you grew and maybe i'll throw up the forkland coxcomb celosia photo just to show some of those heirlooms off a little bit but
00:49:50
Alexis
You can follow us there on Instagram at Hort culture podcast. You can ah send us an email. We have a specific Gmail set up for that. And that's in the show notes. You can just click that and type away on your phone.
00:50:03
Alexis
If you would like, we'd love if you left us a review. If you want to know more about seed saving specifically, and if that spring topic of how to plan your garden for seed saving is something you're interested in, write it in the review.
00:50:17
Alexis
And that'll help other people find us. So that that makes the algorithm happy.
00:50:18
Jessica
um
00:50:20
Alexis
And there's some keywords there that'll help other people interested in seed saving. Listen to our podcast, which is always super helpful. And we appreciate all of you ah that have been doing that. and But we thank you for joining us. And we hope to hear from you next time.
00:50:40
Plant People
Thank you.