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Tapping into Tradition: Kentucky Maple Syrup with John Duvall
81 Plays26 days ago
In this episode, the team welcomes John Duvall, horticulturalist at Eastern Kentucky University and president of the Kentucky Maple Syrup Association, for a deep dive into the sweet world of maple syrup.
John shares the basics of syrup making—from tapping trees, collecting sap, boiling, filtering, and bottling—to the surprising challenges that come with the process. He highlights the heritage of maple syrup in Kentucky, once nearly lost but now experiencing a revival, and discusses how weather patterns, tree species, and even soil contribute to flavor.
The conversation explores the differences between sugar and red maples, the potential of other trees like walnut and sycamore, and the unique taste that Kentucky syrup offers compared to northern states. Along the way, John shares personal stories (including a first-year mishap that earned him the title of “official sugar maker”) and explains how syrup makers balance tradition with modern techniques like reverse osmosis.
Listeners also learn about the Kentucky Maple Syrup Association’s efforts to grow awareness, from beginner workshops in October to the annual Kentucky Maple School on November 1st in Clark County, plus Kentucky Maple Days in February, where farms open their doors for tours and tastings.
Whether you’re a backyard hobbyist, a curious cook, or someone dreaming of tapping your own sugar bush, this episode offers a rich taste of the science, tradition, and community that make Kentucky maple syrup special.
Kentucky Maple Syrup Association
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Hort Culture Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Hort Culture, where a group of extension professionals and plant people talk about the business, production, and joy of planting seeds and helping them grow. Join us as we explore the culture horticulture.
00:00:16
Speaker
Well, welcome, friends. How's everybody doing? Good. Good. I love your soft intros, Brett. Love it. Because, I mean, if it was Alexis, it would have been screeching in on two tires. Yeah, yelling at everybody.
00:00:29
Speaker
Yeah. Both of them work very well. Very well. Both intros work very well. We have a yin and yang energy. love it. Between the two of us. Complimentary even. It balances out well. We've been working some on some of these events.
Hosts' Roles in Podcast and Events
00:00:43
Speaker
And um Alexis is the person who will make sure that everybody's fed, that they've got a place to go to the bathroom, that people get paid. Logistics. And I'm more on the like What's the conceptual, you know, human what are we doing here with the program?
00:00:59
Speaker
People who've listened to the podcast for a while are not surprised to hear this, but, you know, should there be pyrotechnics? Would it be too much for one of us to be lowered in on a crane, you know, as part of the so but we heard of the theater of the event? Yes.
00:01:12
Speaker
She was just remarking the other day about the complimentary nature. And I think part of, yeah, but hey, everybody, welcome back to Hort Culture. My smooth 70s radio DJ voice comes out and Alexis is much more of a shock jock, I think.
00:01:27
Speaker
Yeah, she's right there. yeah yeah He's in the front row. Yeah, we're joined by a guest today. ah John, you want to introduce yourself? And then I have a question for everybody, but I'll go ahead and and let you introduce yourself first.
Meet John Duvall: Horticulturalist and Maple Syrup Enthusiast
00:01:40
Speaker
Hello, everyone. My name is John Duvall. ah So by daytime, I'm actually horticulturalist at Eastern Kentucky University. ah But at night, I'm the president of the Kentucky Maple Syrup Association.
00:01:51
Speaker
And that's why I'm here today is to talk to you about maple syrup. We're excited about it. By day and by night. I know. It's like alter ego. It's like superheroes. Not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need.
00:02:05
Speaker
it yeah It is maple syrup. So it's got superhero status in my book any day. That's right. Well, oh I have a question. It's a little more to actually topically related than we usually do. I hope long-time listeners will forgive me for...
00:02:19
Speaker
tying it back to the topic and not just ranting on about candy corn for the first 10 minutes of the episode. It's that time a year to do that again. but like to of it in letter day in good In good time.
00:02:31
Speaker
i'm I'm curious what you all, so maple syrup is the topic we're going to talk about today in a variety of ways. What do you, when you think of maple syrup, maybe when you taste it or you smell it or whatever, what are you associated with? What's something that you very specifically associate with maple syrup?
00:02:48
Speaker
Goodness. And John, John, you can feel free to answer too. We will let you go whenever you're ready. But we'll take the pressure off by saying, Jessica, you go first. Okay, I'll go first. um Like this may sound weird, but like my mother-in-law, because she is from Vermont.
00:03:05
Speaker
And so we are very pure maple syrup people. Right. In our household and like the different, you know, because you can get to different colors.
00:03:15
Speaker
ah probably I probably don't know the terminology. I hope to learn that today about the different grades of maple syrup. But associate that with her and her family. My grandparents are originally from Western New York.
00:03:28
Speaker
And they talked about cooking their own maple syrup when I was a kid. um So that's what I associated it with. And so we just and there's always a great debate at my in-laws about like she can't believe that two of her sons like the store bought maple syrup over the pure stuff.
00:03:49
Speaker
So that's always a A comical debate that happens or she's like ashamed that they don't like pure maple syrup. That is not maple syrup. There's some real beef. There's some real ah beef between particularly, I think, between Vermont and New Hampshire about who makes better maple syrup. and Oh, man.
00:04:08
Speaker
You know, I mean, that's high stakes. A northern throwdown. You the two the two wedge, the two northeastern wedge states, wedge shaped states ah going ah head to head in the maple syrup game. What about you, Ray? Oh, when I think of maple syrup, I guess, I don't know. I always think of the woods and I think of the fall time of the year, even though that's kind of out of season for lot of activities for making maple syrup. But in the fall, about this time before the leaves would come off the trees to make sure that we were tapping the trees that we absolutely wanted, you know, we'd mark trees when we would make it. So it's like all things fall to me. Maybe it's because it's a sweetener and ah I think of sorghum and maple syrup and all that stuff.
00:04:45
Speaker
ah But yeah, I think of the woods mainly. When I think of maple syrup, it's like a taste of the woods to me. and trees and hills and all the fun things associated with that. It just instantly just, you know, it's a fall time thing in my brain and woods thing.
Maple Syrup Production in Kentucky
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, John, I mean, I know that you obviously have a lot of reference points for maple, but maybe stepping away from the presidential role or the other, you know, the roles of the organization and other stuff, just as a person, what do you, what do you associate with maple syrup?
00:05:18
Speaker
Well, I guess I would associate kind of two things. One, instead of fall, our would job take ah more of winter because that's the season for maple syrup. That's when you're actually doing it. and The other thing would be like, you know, our heritage, you know, our our ancestors who really got started on making maple syrup, you know,
00:05:35
Speaker
hundreds of years ago and the art kind of got lost. And I think it's kind of picking back up again, you know, at least in Kentucky, you know, they've been doing up in Vermont, that area for a long, long time, but you know, in Kentucky, they've, they used to make it quite a bit.
00:05:49
Speaker
And then that art just almost got lost and it's kind of coming back. Yeah. My, my, ah my memory of maple is it's not really syrup per se, and it's certainly not the pure version that, that Jessica is really pushing her agenda of pure maple syrup. ah yeah It's a big, it's a big to do in our family.
00:06:10
Speaker
So. But for me, it's these, there's these little maple flavored candies that are, it's like a maple covered cashew. And my dad loved those things. like And I was just like, especially as a kid, you're like,
00:06:25
Speaker
what in the heck like it's like the Werther's original kind of effect of like is this just something you pass a certain age and then you like these and I I like them now um but I you know and I keep Kleenexes and Werther's originals and all my sweater pockets and and I've graduated to that level but uh I can still smell like we could on go on road trips and my dad would have them and I can still smell that uh that candy now um but before any of that happens when you we have to make, we have to collect and make the maple syrup. what I'm going to ask you, John, before we jump into the other stuff we're going to cover is an impossible task.
00:07:02
Speaker
Can you give us the elevator pitch or the elevator spiel? Maybe it's a long elevator, you know, maybe it goes to the top of this year's tower for what is the process of making maple syrup for someone who's not really initiated into it?
00:07:16
Speaker
Like, what does that look like in a very high level? Like what, what are we, what are we doing? uh you could kind of simplify it into into steps so first step would be course tapping the tree Then collecting the sap and what a lot of people don't realize is what it looks like when it comes out.
00:07:34
Speaker
You know, everybody thinks, you know, when you tap that tree, it's going to come out looking brown like syrup. Well, it doesn't. It looks like water. It looks like crystal clear water. So you go from tap to collect to boil.
00:07:46
Speaker
um And that's that's the long process. That's that's what takes a long time. um, to filter to bottle. So those are kind of the the steps of making maple syrup. You go from tap to collect, to boil, to filter, to bottle.
00:08:01
Speaker
Uh, that's kind of the the simple version of, and each step has its own process. Um, and it's, you do it different steps throughout the whole season, but that's the simple way of of explaining it.
00:08:13
Speaker
and Yeah. out of those step Yeah. It's a, I was just going say, um, People would get excited about going to workshops a year. We did some really basic like community workshop. times Everybody was so excited. We want to be involved in every step of the process until we got to boiling it. About two hours in, they're like, okay, we'll come back to us later.
00:08:32
Speaker
It absolutely, because we were not set up with any kind of commercial equipment or anything. And it took us a good while. to boil, you know, down. And I'm sure you'll get into that and the ratios and stuff, but yeah, everybody was super excited until we got to that bullying and then they saw what was going on there. And then they were like, okay, we'll get with you later. This is taking, this is taking a while.
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, I've kind of got a story about the first time i boiled. A friend of mine had a farm down in Berea, Kentucky, and he let me tap some trees. and And there's a process called RO reverse osmosis, and that's a whole other subject.
00:09:07
Speaker
But it's a way to to kind of cut down your cook time. So um I froze a lot of my sap, and I waited until really nice day. It was actually um kind of March madness season. and So we set up our cooker outside, um got our TV set up, and we just made like a whole day of it, you know, keeping the fire going.
00:09:26
Speaker
And it was getting late, so we had to start putting out spotlights so we could see what we're doing. And we're kind of getting down to the end, and I'm watching it closely. And, you know, his parents have been there all day, so he's saying goodbye to his parents.
00:09:39
Speaker
I turn around for two seconds, and when i go back to my syrup, it just foams over. the pan and just goes all over the ground and we're just standing there like, no. Oh gosh.
00:09:51
Speaker
ah After we've been there for like six hours, we cookie yeah all the stuff I had not imagine. Yeah. And so all we could do was just grab our leather gloves and try to lift that tray up off that fire yeah as quick as we could to save what we could.
00:10:09
Speaker
And so that first year i ended up with one jar ah maple syrup. you know That one jar though, and with that's a lot work. That's a very familiar one story in my life as well. My husband did that with sorghum. His first year of doing sorghum, cooked it all day, all day long, and may had a little little burnt taste to it in the end. It got about like one jar as well.
00:10:31
Speaker
But things only got better, right? Did I get some of that? It was fine. You've got the good stuff now. yeah ok Yeah, I got the good stuff. but yeah know So people who who make People who make maple syrup, though we call ourselves sugar makers.
00:10:47
Speaker
So we like to say, you're not an official sugar maker until you mess up once. yeah So that first year, I guess I was a official sugar maker because I messed up. yeah you on the You were just on the accelerated track. Yeah, you like started right in on the learning early. had guys tell me, they're like, hey, listen, don't finish that on wood fire. I'm like, well, why not?
00:11:04
Speaker
And then I figured out real quick why, because like you said, you're doing an emergency maneuver, lifting a hot pan. And then I went to propane and then I was like, oh, maybe if I finish it on the stove. So, yeah, that is there's a lot of art and science to finish. Exactly. that My goodness. But it's it's a it's an awesome process, though.
00:11:22
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I learned the hard way as well. really the Yeah. Wood fire. You mentioned winter. So so what what time of winter are we in that this would be happening usually Kentucky? Well, in Kentucky, yeah.
00:11:36
Speaker
So usually in Kentucky, we start tapping our trees in January. You could probably start in December, um but there's kind of a window of when you want to tap your tree.
00:11:47
Speaker
Basically, once you tap your tree, you have six to eight weeks to collect your sap. um and then the tree will hill itself. So that six to eight week window, you kind of want to base on what the weather's going to be.
00:12:00
Speaker
When you you're going to get the the below freezing days, or below freezing at night and above freezing during the day. um And you're looking for when you're going to get the most consistent of those type of of days during the winter.
00:12:13
Speaker
So in Kentucky, primarily we've been tapping sometime in January, then our season is running through February. and by March, ah the season's basically over.
00:12:24
Speaker
Our trees start forming their little buds, you know, for the spring, start filling with with water, and at that point, the chemistry in the sap changes, and unfortunately, the season's over, but like up in Vermont, in that area, they're just getting started about the time we're finishing. Oh, cool.
00:12:43
Speaker
Their season's much longer, I'm assuming, up there because of the colder weather more consistent or how their seasons just just their their seasons know it it's about the same they all last you know about six to eight weeks once you tap uh you know the tree will naturally just hit hill itself yeah uh you know six to eight weeks it's just they have to wait a little bit longer because they're so cold they have to wait till they start coming out of that that frozen yeah where ours fluctuates so much. You know, we can have a a few days where it's below freezing and then two days later it's above 60 and that's not good for syrup, unfortunately.
Weather and Tree Types' Impact on Syrup Quality
00:13:23
Speaker
And can that shut your season down? I mean, if it stays, you know, if those was fluctuations are too great, can that impact your season? It can. It can um because then you start getting little microbes and in all your lines and and it starts changing that you ah the syrup taste.
00:13:42
Speaker
But also when you get those warmer temperatures, then the tree can heal itself a lot quicker. um But there has been times you know where we get those 60 degree days, but then it'll go back below freezing. And so your your season can continue.
00:13:55
Speaker
um ah ah You know, our weather down here is just strange. You never know if we're going to have prey those freezing nights or are we going to have an early spring. That's the story of horticulture in Kentucky where as a transition state, transition zones.
00:14:08
Speaker
My goodness, we get northern weather and southern weather. It depends on which day it is. So yeah, that yeah makes sense. well Reminds me of the of the sweet corn production band as it moves up throughout the season. You know, you get the Floridas and the and the ah Georgias producing first and then it's gradually coming up and you start and then Kentucky. and But we're us in the middle, sometimes it's late, sometimes it's early, sometimes the tomatoes are ripening, sometimes they aren't.
00:14:32
Speaker
and Yeah. yeah what say suggest I was going to say, well, one how cool are trees to think that it can heal that quickly? in that amount of time, because we always think about trees being slower with things.
00:14:45
Speaker
but But when you're talking about your trees that you're tapping, ah mostly sugar maples, is that what you're going for? Because, you know, I've, I've heard of sometimes they tap red maples.
00:14:56
Speaker
ah I've known some other people to tap other trees as well to try to get, get some of that syrup from. So is it primarily sugar maples you're going after?
00:15:08
Speaker
Well, ah it's sugar and red maples. You know, in Kentucky, the most populated tree naturally is the red maple, but we do have not native sugar maples as well. They're just a lot more red And, you know, up in the Northeast, I guess it kind of looked down on the red maple. They're strictly sugar maples, but you know, it has a really good taste too. And a lot of us just, we mix our sap, the the the red and the sugar together.
00:15:36
Speaker
um There are a few people who are doing some like walnut syrup. um Sometimes they may mix a little bit together. yeah You're not going to get as much sap out of a walnut tree as you will probably.
00:15:48
Speaker
as a maple tree. Um, but Walnut syrup actually can go at a higher price. a lot of people sell it for a lot higher cause it's, again, you don't get as much sat from it and it has a really good taste.
00:15:59
Speaker
Um, some people like it better than the maple syrup. Uh, it's really, really rich. Is the ratio of of sugar to water in that about the same as like a sugar maple?
00:16:10
Speaker
ah If you're using the sugars of like a benchmark is the Walnut and the red, how does that vary in the actual like content? So we are we measured the the sugar content in trees with a term called bricks.
00:16:25
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So with sugar maples, a lot of time, so I tapped just sugar maples this year, and I did it on campus here at EKU, and a lot of my trees were like 3, you know, 3.2.
00:16:37
Speaker
So that's percentage. So like 3% of that is sugar and the rest is water. Where a lot of our producers are doing red maples, they're getting like 1.5%. Oh, yeah. ah So the lower the percent, the more sap it takes to make a gallon.
00:16:54
Speaker
Of syrup so for instance, you know if I've got you know 3% sugar in my sap, you know It could take you know about 35 to 40 gallons They say about if you got 2% then it's about 40 gallons So I was higher than 2% so when you're below 2% It's going to take more gallons so it could take 60 gallons of sap to make one gallon syrup well walnut is even lower than maple trees.
00:17:19
Speaker
So maple has the highest sugar content, but other trees, because there's not not just walnut, you can do sycamore, you can do birch. um I'm forgetting another tree, but there's there's over 30 species of trees that you can make syrup from.
00:17:36
Speaker
ah But those are kind of the your your maple, your birch, your walnut, and your sycamore are kind of the ones that people do do the most. But again, maple being the the most sugar content in the sap. So it takes a lot less.
00:17:50
Speaker
And all those trees you just mentioned, can the sap be mixed with those? Or is there any incompatibilities there that you know of? Like you wouldn't want to, I mean, is there any rules to mixing the sap or other than purists like Jessica's being like, don't do that.
00:18:06
Speaker
You know, we don't have a lot of people who, in at least in Kentucky, who are doing the other trees. I know in other states we've been working with, they're, you know, doing some research, you know, trying different different trees.
00:18:18
Speaker
And um I think they may be mixing maybe a little walnut with a little bit of maple. Um, but you're changing the taste. They each have their own taste. okay Yeah. So you know I was going talk about our maple school here in a little bit, but like last year at our maple school, we had somebody came in and talk about the different types of syrup and we got to taste them in the, yeah, they each one have their own different tastes.
00:18:41
Speaker
One of them had like a licorice taste. I can't remember if that was the birch or the sycamore, but it really had like a strong licorice taste. Um, The walnut, again, had a really like good, like you know robust, they call it, taste.
00:18:56
Speaker
And I can't remember, one of them just, I didn't like the taste of it at all. And I think that might have been the birch. It was like, ooh, that's the syrup. That would be amazing. That would be an amazing taste test. I mean, I can just imagine that, just having that luxury to be able to taste different tree species. That's awesome.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, but that was an awesome experience. Yeah, it was. I mean, it was a tasty experience. Yeah, there you go. There you go. I'm imagining that John comes back for another episode and we managed to get a little sample of several different species. Brad, that's a good ingredient. We did a live sampling. Wait a minute. We'll make it happen. We'll make it happen. So, John, I am the lowest ranking plant nerd on the podcast, including today. He's not. Sometimes I have to get these people I have to say, hold on a second, but I am going to ask one more plant question before we move on to some of these people things like these organizations and schools and other stuff.
00:19:49
Speaker
um what do What do you have to say about the age of the trees? So either depending on my conception of time, we either have already talked to and you've already heard from Chad Nyman um up at UK.
00:20:01
Speaker
about some of the forestry side of things. And he talked about, you know, some of the maple species and older versus younger. um Or if you have, if you haven't heard in that episode yet, depending on how we, we organize things ah tune into that episode with Chad Nyman, but what's the age size? How do you like, if, if I'm a person who has some wooded property and I'm maybe thinking about maybe tapping some trees or maybe evaluating whether even I could do a bigger, uh,
00:20:28
Speaker
a sugar bush to collect sap. um What size trees are are people typically messing with on this? That's a good question. um So the rule of thumb is it has to have at least a 10 inch size a diameter tree.
00:20:44
Speaker
You know, you could tap smaller, but the problem is if you tap smaller, one, you could hurt the tree, but as the tree is growing, you're going to run out of space to tap, you know, around that tree if you started at a smaller diameter.
00:20:59
Speaker
So the good rule of thumb is 10 inches or bigger. So if it's 10 inches, as the tree is growing, then you'll have more space to you knowll keep tapping. you know, around the outside of the tree.
00:21:10
Speaker
Um, and the bigger the tree, the more taps you could put, put in the tree. Uh, you could put up to three taps yeah in a tree. If the tree is over, um, I don't have my notes from me. It's either 20 or 24 inches. So a really big tree, you can put three taps in, uh, but no more than three because you put more than three again, you could hurt the tree.
00:21:32
Speaker
Um, and then again, you're going to run it out out of space to, to tap the tree as well. Um, the the thing is we don't want to hurt trees. You know, they're going to give us exactly how much sap that they want to give. And then they're going to stop.
00:21:48
Speaker
So you kind of think of of of, like, it's the blood of the tree, you know? So we don't want to take too much blood. It's just going to give you what, what can survive. so sir i I've heard some pretty, ah you set up to the three taps depending on the size tree maximum of, but as far as quantity that you may get out of a,
00:22:07
Speaker
ah me what you would consider a medium-sized tree. I've heard some pretty impressive potential quantities as far as sap that you may get from an individual tree. Yeah, you can get anywhere from like five gallons to 15 gallons in a season.
00:22:20
Speaker
Pretty incredible. wow yeah So, you know, a lot of people think, oh, it takes 40 gallons of sap to make one gallon. That's not a very good ratio. three But, you know, if if yeah if one tree could give you 15 gallons in a season,
00:22:34
Speaker
you got a couple of trees and you can make a gallon of syrup for your family. Yeah. So I've tapped maybe 14 trees on campus um this year.
Family Syrup Production and Quality Debates
00:22:45
Speaker
And I think I made about three gallons of syrup at the end. I probably could have made more. There some times where I kind of got lazy and I didn't go check my buckets. I didn't empty my buckets because, you know,
00:22:58
Speaker
it's It's tiresome, you know checking your buckets all the time, and the cold, and the rain. so ah Unfortunately, we get more rainy winters than we get snowy winters, it seems like. so You think, it'll be fine for a couple of days.
00:23:11
Speaker
Well, you go back, and the sap's gone bad. yeah and Unfortunately, there's a couple times I should have went the day before, and I didn't. so I could have ended up with you know maybe four or five gallons of syrup from those 14 trees.
00:23:26
Speaker
and Again, people think, Five gallons isn't much, but when you put it in small little bottles, you get a lot of bottles out of five gallons of of of syrup. yeah There's nothing worse than coming and looking down in the bucket and it's cloudy because you've waited too many days.
00:23:41
Speaker
And it is kind of perishable at that stage, isn't it? when it's Yeah. Yeah, Sap. It's kind of perishable. yeah it Some people say it kind of smells like stinky feet. So if it smells like your feet, you don't want it. but beds As someone who had a gallon of maple syrup in her refrigerator up until last week, I can tell you it is a lot of syrup in a gallon.
00:24:01
Speaker
And as much as I enjoyed that gallon of syrup, I'm glad that the gallon is now out of my refrigerator.
00:24:10
Speaker
Jess, can you guys bake with that? Bake with it, draw on pancakes. I've attempted to make maple candies before, but that's one of those things too, that like, if you're not quick, yeah they it can it's go time all of a sudden. you know to abroad i've not had any of these candies. Have you? I've not i've not had any of these candies. So what's up? Jessica, what can do? You guys are, if you're a little nicer...
00:24:34
Speaker
We're lower on the list, but I did get sorted. We have to be nice there as a maple syrup purist on this so far. I I have just been married into it. so you or you You have.
00:24:46
Speaker
We should have had her at our at our maple schools doing these cooking demonstrations the last few years. I mean, this is all kind of new information. We're all learning. she's sort been holding out on all of us, John, including you. Yeah. john Wow.
00:25:00
Speaker
I'm going to try to muster up the courage to to carry on with this podcast after this. but I'm at a loss of words. Yeah. I'll say, ah you know, one a couple of little tidbits. from the realm of things that um I know.
00:25:15
Speaker
One is that ah when we talked with Chad, talked about different species of of maples, there's different hardness levels within that lumber and sugar maples are one of the very hardest of maples as far as the the heart use here. Sometimes see in a lumber yard, a hard rock maple, those types of things tends to be acer saccharum, the sugar maple versus a soft maple.
00:25:38
Speaker
which you maybe wouldn't want to use for a cutting board or something like that. And that's sometimes it's other species, including red maple. But another one is about the, ah the prices that we tend to see for maple syrup. So you mentioned a gallon there.
00:25:50
Speaker
We tend to see maple syrup going for between 12 and 20 something dollars for an eight ounce bottle. And you can, you know, do the math on a, on a gallon of the, of that. And, it it points, I think to, ah up till now we've been thinking about and talking about buckets and thinking about it sort of as this homesteading or maybe a hobby or whatever thing, but there's, there's that some people who are doing it at a little bit bigger scale. And there's people who are thinking about building an industry here in Kentucky and, um,
00:26:18
Speaker
Part of that, I think, is this association that you work with. um And I'd love to just like hear a little bit more because ah as we're talking about all this stuff, I'm trying to remember everything you've said, but then realizing, oh, there's probably some other opportunities to learn and and get around with like-minded people who are also as excited as we have been thus far to ask about different species and ah flow rates and bricks and everything else. um But right yeah what's what's going on with the association? I'd love to hear more about that.
00:26:46
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah. So our association is kind of a young
Growth and Education in the Maple Syrup Community
00:26:50
Speaker
association. you know, people might have been doing this in Kentucky for 20 years or more. But I guess it's probably about 2018, 2017.
00:26:59
Speaker
A few guys in far eastern Kentucky came together and decided, hey, we should make an association. um And i think I joined about three years ago.
00:27:11
Speaker
and Three years ago, there was probably about 16, 17 members, a lot them in Eastern Kentucky. um and We've built it up to, I think we're over to 42 members in just three years. and I'm still finding out more and more people that make maple syrup.
00:27:26
Speaker
so you know We're trying to get our name out there as best as we can ah to get more members. um I think one of the greatest things about our association is We love to tell our story, of course, but we love to share information. You know, some industries, they like to keep all their, their you know, all their tricks kind of to themselves. You know, how they do this, like, oh, I'm not going tell you how ah how I do my, you know, make my maple syrup.
00:27:51
Speaker
But we like to share our stories. We like to tell, help each other. um and try to mentor each other of of how to make a good product across the state. um We've got people in far western Kentucky, Callaway County, and we got people in northern, southern, eastern, all over the state.
00:28:09
Speaker
um But our association is really about educating, you know, educating the next maple sugar maker. So in October, we're going to actually have 11 different locations across the state where, you know, if you're thinking, man, I'd like to know more about how to make maple syrup.
00:28:28
Speaker
We're going have 11 locations across the state at extension offices where you can kind of come to a beginner's night, little maple syrup 101 night. Maybe be the the local extension agent may have maybe making maple syrup or could be a producer in that county. It's kind of a mix of both.
00:28:46
Speaker
um So I found I was hoping we do 12. I kind of divided Kentucky into 12 districts. Still working on that 12th. But right now we have 11 confirmed places all throughout the month of October.
00:28:58
Speaker
um So we hope people be interested in in coming to learn about the process. That's how I got started. You know, we had some like an online online class, you watched online class books.
00:29:09
Speaker
know, we want to do it in person so people can come and and learn and see all the tools and the tricks, maybe even doing a little taste taste testing, depending on which location you go to. So that's kind of how we're going to reach people who may not know about maple syrup.
00:29:24
Speaker
And then for people who have been making maple syrup, maybe the the moderate or the advanced maple syrup maker, we're going to have what's called the Kentucky Maple School. We've been doing this for a while.
00:29:36
Speaker
um COVID, unfortunately, we had to go to virtual for a few years. So this is be the third year in person. um And we have a great turnout. We've had about 60, 70 different producers across the state show up for it.
00:29:50
Speaker
And it's going to be in Clark County this year at the Clark County Extension Office on November 1st. Working on times right now, probably start about 9 ah the In the past, we've had some great speakers.
00:30:02
Speaker
We've had people come from Vermont and Maine, Wisconsin, ah northern Ohio, ah come down to be our presenters. ah ah Last year, we had this guy called the Maple Dude.
00:30:13
Speaker
That's so his business in my name. He goes by the Maple Dude. He's kind of the the social media funny guy of the maple syrup industry. you know Not everybody but may get his humor because we're kind of a small niche group, but those that make maple syrup, we find them pretty funny.
00:30:28
Speaker
But we had him down last year, and that was great to have him come and present and share some of his products. Because you you take maple syrup, and you can make all kinds different things. You just replace you know that granulated sugar with maple syrup, and you got something that tastes really good and a little bit more healthier for you. know So he shared about all the different products he uses his maple syrup for And then, you know, we bring in the reach research side to our Maple School to help us learn how we can make our process better.
00:30:58
Speaker
um And so it's just a great day to get together. where We're all spread across the state. We don't really get to get to see each other that much, but it's that one day can come together and talk one-on-one one on one and And, you know, find out what somebody's doing, you know, everybody's got different techniques and it's great to learn from each other. Do you have to be like a member to participate in that? Cause I'm kind of excited. I wrote down the date and everything in Clark County, but how do you attend that? Or is there a fee or?
00:31:26
Speaker
There is, and it's cheap. So it's $25 if you're not a member. If you're a member, we give you a discount, and it's only $15. ah So we're not one of these big organizations that charges a crazy amount for a fee.
00:31:39
Speaker
We're just getting started. We want to make sure we can still ah make it affordable for everybody. So it's $25. ah We have a website. um I believe it is kymaplesyrup.com,
00:31:52
Speaker
um and that's where you can register. for the Maple School and pay you right through that website. We don't have it up yet, but probably by the time this gets posted, it may be available.
00:32:03
Speaker
Sometime at the beginning of October, we'll have the updated registration. I think it still has last year's on there. I noticed you have a pretty nice and active Facebook page as well with a lot of great information on there and all of your upcoming events too for another place to to find everything. Oh, yes.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yes. oh ah Our secretary, Kaylin, she is 4-H agent out in West Kentucky. She's really good at making all the posts and doing all the flyers. I'm not very savvy when it comes to technology or fancy flyers. So,
00:32:35
Speaker
I have to rely on her to make the nice flyers so we can get our advertisements out there. But ah she's working on making this year's advertisements and we'll get them on Facebook and our website.
00:32:46
Speaker
And we just want everybody to share, share, share, you know, through all the extension offices and and and everything. So we just want to get the word out there. I cannot imagine the excitement level. I can just see it my head, almost see it.
00:33:00
Speaker
It's probably like a B group. When they get together, they have this kind of energy. I imagine that's you guys when you get together that, you know, you have that opportunity to get together in person. i bet you i bet you that is a fun time.
00:33:12
Speaker
It is. it's It's almost like a family reunion in a way where you love all your family. You know, you may have that cousin that's three times removed that you don't want to see. But yeah, it's like a family coming together. You know, you may haven't seen them since last year, but you just love to see those people and sit down and talk and tell stories. So it's, it's a great time.
00:33:32
Speaker
And we get to try a lot of good stuff too. So last year we had maple cotton candy, uh, that we made and and everybody home with. So if you have not had maple cotton candy, that's a whole nother ballgame. I never would have thought about that. I've never heard of that before. So yeah I know it is, it is amazing. you use, uh, like maple sugar instead of just granulated sugar.
00:33:55
Speaker
So it has that good maple taste. Um, One of our friends from ah down in Electric County went up to Maine for our festival and found out about this maple cotton candy and brought the recipe back and shared it with us. So I know a lot of our producers have been selling maple cotton candy at their local farmer's market as well.
00:34:14
Speaker
So it's really good. Yeah. You made me think of something else. My mother-in-law mentioned that at the state fair that she always enjoyed in Vermont getting, they were like maple pops or something like that.
00:34:25
Speaker
So like, like ice cream, like maple ice cream pops kind of. I was just going to say ice cream. Who's bringing that? Cause I, I'm behind all of these things we're talking about, 100%. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. One of our producers, he opens up his farm.
00:34:39
Speaker
So one thing I did forget to mention is Kentucky Maple Days. And maybe I come on when it gets closer to that and do another talk. But I just want to put a little disclaimer out there. We have, in February, called Kentucky Maple Days, where our producers open up their farms today.
00:34:54
Speaker
and offer tours so you can come and see how the process is done in person and you know buy the product straight from the farm. ah But one of our producers up in Shelbyville, ah he he has these big ice troughs.
00:35:07
Speaker
So he heats up his maple syrup and then pours it on those i ice troughs to make ice troughs. That is a difficult word. It makes like maple taffy. ah There's like a big French word for it.
00:35:19
Speaker
Don't ask me to say it or pronounce it. But they, they use that term up there and in Maine of Vermont a lot, but he does it here in in Shelbyville. It's really, really good. yeah so like And you should see everybody's just, is crowded around that ice drop. Just really, you know, getting as much of that little you know yeah tacky on their little spoons. roll it up hey Yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
Yeah. It's awesome. It's awesome. Well, you mentioned the, um, the honey, the honey side of things. And, uh, you know, when the bee people get together, there's a real buzz on the air.
00:35:49
Speaker
Yeah, there is. I tried not to say that, Brett, but I knew you would. But I'd imagine there's a similar energy with the maple folks that you could you would would really want to tap into. Oh, there you go. He cannot resist. He's pretty sweet about that kind of stuff. well That is that it's actually a segue to something that I think is really interesting, is which is this idea of like – locally producing different products that actually fit into they're not just it's this isn't just like a a novelty sweeteners are something that we use in baking there's something that we use in sweetening drinks and all kinds of flavorings and other stuff like that and i just think that's a really cool aspect because you mentioned sorghum um you know sorghum is a fairly you know in intensive annual production system and uh
00:36:34
Speaker
things like bees and things like, like maple syrup, to me, it, there's this element of kind of like a, it's not passive. There's a lot of activity involved in it, but it's, it's something where you're tapping into, sorry, that one was unintentional. You're, you're, tip but you're tapping into this existing,
00:36:50
Speaker
aspect of the landscape and and in Kentucky in particular was so much covered by trees with a lot of maples out there. I just think that that's a really, i spend a lot of my time thinking about the market side and the, you know, the the consumer side. And I just think that, um,
00:37:07
Speaker
the The idea of like even experiencing maple syrup that isn't a maple flavored corn syrup is something that people don't necessarily do or they don't necessarily get to to experience. I think that idea of those maple days, seeing the process, um but also even just doing some some sampling and taste, you know, offering samples is something that we we encourage in the marketing side a lot.
00:37:29
Speaker
um I just think that's a it's just a really cool aspect of this that, you To be able to supplement our our local diets with local products is a, is a really interesting thing. It totally passes the vibe check. It's kind of like honey and it's an easy sell, I would think. I mean, because it's got so much positive in my brain, so much positive vibe to that.
00:37:50
Speaker
Like the whole... the way I see maple syrup production, it's almost like a romanticized process. When I think of Vermont and all the Northern States and Kentucky can do it too. Uh, so yeah. Well, i remember reading, I get, I think it's Laura Ingalls Wilder. I don't know. One of the, one of the many, uh,
00:38:07
Speaker
pioneer young girl literature that I read in my youth um where they would make maple
Future Aspirations for Kentucky Maple Syrup
00:38:13
Speaker
syrup. And while they were cooking it, they would take it out and throw it into the snow and it would harden into this little, you know, candy that was in, you know, in process and they would eat it. And I was just like, oh man, that, when you were talking Jessica about, you know, doing the stuff with the sorghum and your, your mother-in-law was imagining you as like a little home on the, what is it? Home on the prairie or whatever the, yeah.
00:38:34
Speaker
Little house on the prairie. um Well, so John, where where would you like to see maple syrup go in the next, you know, you said you've been, you've been involved for three years. Where, where might you like to see things go in the next, the next bit is, are you trying to attract more of the backyard home, you know, homesteading type folks? Are you thinking about something on the more on the commercial side?
00:38:58
Speaker
Like what's, where, what do you all talk about in the, in the association and in those, in those talks and planning those things?
00:39:06
Speaker
Honestly, it's it's not a size thing. We welcome people from the hobbyist to the commercialist. It's just getting more people involved. that's That's our big thing. um For me, you know we have all these great commodities kentucky in Kentucky, and I want maple syrup to be one of those commodities that people talk about.
00:39:25
Speaker
You know, this past year we were a sponsor of the commodity breakfast at this at the state fair. That was the first time we've ever done that. And so I just want it to be, you know, another one of those commodities that people think about when they think about Kentucky.
00:39:38
Speaker
Everybody always, you know, thinks about beef in Kentucky, which we're never going to be as big as beef. That's a huge commodity. But, you know, we should be up there, you know, as you know, as an as a mention, at least.
00:39:50
Speaker
I mean, I'm thinking instead of honey straws, which we got to keep those, uh, I'm thinking maple syrup straws. You see where I'm going with this, Jessica? i want, I want to, i want the honey straws and the maple syrup straws just be side by side. I want all that ah the, all the sweets. Oh yeah.
00:40:04
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, so as I, this is a question that feel free to tell me I'm crazy or whatever. Um,
00:40:15
Speaker
But one of the things I think that's kind of interesting about like ah in the in the world of wine or or even I guess in the world maple syrup, maybe, I don't know, is the idea of like ah the place impacting the thing um and and like having in the wine world they – I don't know the word for maple taffy, but I do know this word of terroir, which is the you know the sense of place.
00:40:37
Speaker
And I'm curious, are there any aspects of Kentucky maple syrup that you feel like, you know, you taste it and you can maybe either taste a little bit of a difference or there's some is is there something like that or is it, you know, is that am I just crazy?
00:40:52
Speaker
No, you're definitely not crazy. There is definitely, I believe, a different taste in you know Kentucky maple syrup versus Vermont maple syrup. And I think a a lot of it just has to do with our soil here in Kentucky.
00:41:06
Speaker
um
00:41:09
Speaker
I may be biased, but i think our syrup has just as great as of a taste than the up north. And I think it's the soil that we have down here, the limestone maybe that's in our soil.
00:41:20
Speaker
I think it's what gives it a its own unique taste down here. I mean, minerals come out in that sap, too. I guess that's one of the things you're kind of filtering out when it goes through the process. But, hey, it picks up that stuff, too. And so with that stuff probably comes a little bit of geographic difference, I imagine. and and so Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
00:41:38
Speaker
You know, there's got to be some differences and that's Brett, the marketer. He's asking those. Yeah, you absolutely we talked about with hops, you know, that like we want to grow hops here in Kentucky. Okay, great.
00:41:48
Speaker
But you're not going to compete with a commodity production system out of the Yakima Valley out in Oregon or in Washington or wherever. um on just it's hops, it's a commodity hop. You know, what makes it a little bit special? What makes it a little bit different is something that comes to mind. And and you opened a Pandora's box by telling me I'm not crazy, John. Oh, you encourage, I have samples, I have samples of maple syrups and, and from Kentucky. And I do, it's, I, and other ones too.
00:42:16
Speaker
There's a different like character of what I would describe in my very snooty, um you know, wine tasting, the, the, maple syrup doesn't really go around the glass in the same way that a cab. But I do perceive a little bit of a minerality that is a pleasant minerality, not like a, you know, met metallic taste or something that I think is a little bit different. And and I think that that is cool. And it's something that, you know, and communicating with chefs or communicating with influencers or other people, there is a, there's some potential interest there. I don't know that the, it's going to appeal to the normal, you know, average consumer, but,
00:42:50
Speaker
yeah I can tell you if you if you did a side-by-side taste sample of, um well, we don't say trade names, but a certain woman-shaped bottle that's available through the grocery store and some of our Kentucky maple syrups, I think you'd you'd win some some converts for sure. Who said it there? On campus, they said it tastes like Kentucky. they were i think they were talking about wine.
00:43:12
Speaker
Somebody said it on campus, Brad. They said, well, how does this taste? And and they said it tastes like Kentucky. So yeah, maybe it tastes like Kentucky. I mean, the the the allegedly the horses and the bourbon water is because of our water and our aquifers and our limestone.
00:43:30
Speaker
why not Why not maple syrup too? You know? ah Exactly, yeah. Back to that aquifer. It all comes back and the collection systems and stuff is going to be unique for Kentucky and...
00:43:41
Speaker
ah just the logistics behind the thing and the trees themselves. It's, ah you know, it's going to be a unique product. I think it's just such a cool product. I mean, it has history here. Didn't you say that earlier? It has history in Kentucky.
00:43:52
Speaker
And I love that you guys are trying to bring that back to the kind of front of people's minds um and kind of make it more prominent. Love it. Love it. Love it. A million years ago. i mean, it was, it was in real time. It was maybe 2000,
00:44:06
Speaker
eight or nine years ago. When you factor in COVID, it was 31 years ago. that's right That's right. 2016 or so. I actually did a feature on the burgeoning maple syrup ah association at that time. And we had pictures and people kind sent in there.
00:44:21
Speaker
It was like maybe six or eight farms um that at that point were that sent something in. And it was just such a cool thing. and then i saw I got picked up by the UK Ag Magazine and they had the picture on the cover. I can still see the picture of the Maple shaped bottle, the little maple leaf shaped bottle.
00:44:40
Speaker
uh, and it was, they did a big feature and I was like, Oh man, this is so cool. And I'm so excited to just hear that. It's still, you're still going, you're still moving forward. The website looks awesome. Again, I would go, i would, i would encourage people to, um pop back over there. It's K Y maple syrup.com.
00:44:59
Speaker
Um, and give us one more rundown real quick on the upcoming, um training and learning opportunities, John. Again, yeah, those the trainings are for a beginner's class. We can kind of call it is going to start in October.
00:45:12
Speaker
The first one's going to be actually October 1st in northern Kentucky. And they're they're going to they're kind of scattered out the the whole month. um I don't want to list all 12 right now, but they're going to be on our website um of of where you can go kind of close.
00:45:27
Speaker
close to home. You know, we've been doing it the last few years as like the night before our maple school, but you know, this way you don't have to drive as far. You can make maybe just drive 30 minutes down the road to the, you know, your, your county beside you to learn how to make maple syrup. So we're really just trying to reach as many people as possible.
00:45:47
Speaker
And then maple school will be November 1st, and that's a Saturday in Clark County at their extension office.
00:45:55
Speaker
That's awesome. well And also, I'll just mention, Jessica plugged the um the Facebook page. 2,000 followers on there, which is awesome. There's a nice picture of John's smiling face at the Kentucky State Fair here at the on the top of it. I saw Kentucky Maple Syrup Association is the name of their their page on Facebook.
00:46:15
Speaker
you can go over there and like and and to stay up to date. um It sounds like we need to have you back on for that February event. Brett, Jessica, help me remember We'd love to have you back on the end. I'm just going to speak for the group to learn more about what was that the on farm program that you guys do or the the feature that you guys do then.
00:46:35
Speaker
And then after that, we're going to then have another episode in March or April where we have samples of walnut syrup and birch syrup. and We're going to feed a bunch of syrup. Yeah. Get a bunch of syrup to Alexis and just watch her kind of spin up.
00:46:50
Speaker
Like a vortex. Yes. Yes. It's going to be amazing. Yeah. Awesome. John, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate you sharing about the association, about all the stuff that's going on, all those learning opportunities. We'll be sure to put that in the CCD newsletter and other places as well. um And thank you all, our listeners, for tuning in today to learn a little bit more about Kentucky Maple Syrup.
00:47:12
Speaker
you'd like to hear back from John, hit us with an email. you can email us at hortculturepodcast at gmail.com. You can also follow us and message us on Instagram. That's hortculturepodcast at, or just hortculturepodcast is our handle there.
00:47:27
Speaker
um You can also please leave a review and rating of this podcast on whatever app you use to listen. And until next time, thank you. And we'll see you down there.