Transcript
Plant People: We don't have Alexis here today to come in hot on the microphone.
Jessica : I know. i was like, who's going to jump in, right?
Plant People: What do we do? ah I know it's one of those things we're so used to her coming in with, uh, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Pizazz energy.
Brett: Aggression?
Plant People: yeah, I was, I was looking for Brett.
Jessica : aggression Aggression is a good one.
Brett: Oh, I mean, sorry. Yeah.
Plant People: I was throwing that softball out there. knew you would knock it out and be real about it. Yes, absolutely. With a random topic. Um, I don't know. I don't know, Brett, do you have a random topic to talk about to lead us in today?
Brett: Well, i have ah i have a question and I think it'll it'll dovetail nicely with, ah we have a guest on on today, John, who's going to be introducing himself here in a little bit and you'll see why this makes sense. But I went up to Home Depot recently to, i had a day off and sometimes on my day off in the morning, I like to go up and and piddle around Home Depot like an old man, just sort of look at the old, the new tools and
Plant People: and
Plant People: I can get expensive, Brett. Be careful.
Brett: You know, well, that's what people say, but I never, I usually don't buy anything. I just kind of go walk around and look at light bulbs.
Jessica : Make a wish list, right?
Brett: That's right.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: That's right.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: But I noticed, you know, we, at that point, it was not even yet Halloween. And I noticed that they have out all of the Christmas decorations.
Plant People: Yes. I noticed that at some other hardware stores and box stores that,
Brett: How do we, how do we, how do we feel about that?
Plant People: that it's, it comes quicker every year is, is my knee jerk reaction to that. I don't know. I love the holiday seasons, but I mean, let's do one at a time. Not all at once. I mean,
Jessica : I think per our last podcast episode, you all know my opinions on it, where I'm like, we like Thanksgiving first, then we go to the Christmas stuff.
Plant People: Yeah. I think it's harder to, um I mean, just, you know, from ah the couch perspective, it's kind of harder to monetize Thanksgiving as far as the decorations go. And my wife and I have had a lot of discussions about that in the neighborhood. We're a big Halloween neighborhood decoration. We're a big Christmas decoration neighborhood. Lots of young kids.
Plant People: And it's a whole thing in our neighborhood. But the Thanksgiving like reads like, where are all the turkeys and fodder shocks? I'm like, I know, buddy. I know. There's very few Halloween outside decorations, unless you just count general fall decorations, I guess.
Brett: Mmh.
Plant People: And there's some of that, but maybe maybe it's that.
Jessica : True.
Plant People: But eu Jessica, yeah, it seems like we go straight from ah Halloween to Christmas.
Jessica : oh
Jessica : I think what ties it and it ties in great with our topic today for my, my purpose of it is we get a live Christmas tree, right?
Plant People: It does, yeah.
Jessica : Every year.
Plant People: Okay.
Jessica : that's kind of my other thing of like why we're not, you know, I'm not getting a Christmas tree up early because we are waiting until, you know, it is time to go get your live Christmas tree, right?
Plant People: i was going to say, how,
Plant People: how are you going to, yeah.
Jessica : Cause I can't really put one up the first of um November and expect it to be looking great by Christmas.
Plant People: know November one. Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica : Yeah.
Plant People: I never thought about it, but you could always buy two support the industry. Just get by two, maybe even three.
Jessica : right
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Yeah. wrote Rotate stock.
Plant People: Multiple Christmas trees. Yeah, exactly.
Brett: you Yeah.
Plant People: Exactly.
Jessica : That's not a trouble at all, right?
Brett: Well,
Plant People: No, though no, no, that's not a hassle to do that at all.
Jessica : with With small children now
Plant People: Yeah, that drink the water right out of the Christmas tree, you know, reservoir.
Brett: but John, I'd like to hear, I'd like to hear your perspective, but maybe um it might be useful for, to tell our audience who you are before weighing in on what you think about the earlier and earlier window of Christmas decor. Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: Sure. ah Well, I'm John Bidnarski, and we started the Sherwood Acres LLC about 20 years ago as direct marketing beef farmers and just recently added a ah new business to the to the list and started producing and planting, I should say, Christmas trees about four years ago on the farm to become a little bit more diversified, but it was something that we did with our children, you know, growing up and they were growing up and and I did it as ah as a child growing up in Vermont to go out and cut a Christmas tree every year for for Christmas, whether that was on your own farm or somebody else's farm. And so um we've got the whole family involved and just getting ready to plant this spring, our fifth year of of trees.
Brett: Yeah. And so so from that perspective, someone who's who's deep in the Christmas tree game, what do you think of October Christmas displays at big box stores and Michael's and everywhere else?
Jon Bednarski: Well, I think we've all heard of Christmas in July and, ah you know, they're they're starting even before that. And, you know, obviously as a ah choose and cut operation with fresh cut trees, it's ah it's a challenge to, you know, cut trees too early.
Plant People: Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: um Needle retention is a big thing based on species and and whatnot. And so we want a tree that's going to perform properly in somebody's house. And so, know,
Jon Bednarski: But ah the flip side is we have a retail gift shop and we're opening this year on Black Friday. And ah you know our trees this year will actually come from another grower. So ah we'll get those in the week of Thanksgiving and and start start selling those. So I think you can get a little too early, but we love to have the opportunity of having people at the farm.
Brett: Great, a great answer from a, from a business person right there.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: that is That how you do it folks.
Jessica : Yes.
Brett: Take notes on that.
Plant People: yeah
Brett: um Yeah. Well, thathe that does adhere to Jessica's rule of we do Thanksgiving first. ah So that, you know, day after Thanksgiving, that's, that's, you won't, you won't be on her naughty list for celebrating Christmas too early.
Jessica : right. Thank you. Yes.
Jon Bednarski: Mm-hmm.
Brett: Yeah. Well, so I mean, I, I don't have to lead this conversation, but so are you in Mercer County? What county are you in?
Jon Bednarski: Yes, we're in Mercer County, and which obviously is Jessica's area, and she's been to the farm many times. And, ah you know, real learning curve when you start to from scratch growing Christmas trees. And I think I probably told Jessica this, but if we hadn't been, ah and I'm a first generation farmer, if we hadn't been direct marketing beef for the last 20 years, I'm not sure ah that I would survive in the Christmas tree business because it is a lot of work.
Jon Bednarski: ah The learning curve is is huge. And ah fortunately, ah you know, we joined the Kentucky Christmas Tree Growers Association when we started planning about four years ago. And in some of the some of the members are long term members and they've just been great mentors for us, as well as extension and in UK because so you know We're learning it all from scratch.
Brett: What Jesse, I mean, you feel free to lead us into this, Jess.
Jessica : And you, okay. I was going to say, said something very important that I think we need to hit on ah with this talk is about how challenging it is to grow Christmas trees.
Jessica : I think that's a big misconception that you can just put some trees out there. They'll, you know, do their thing and you come back in a couple of years and you cut them down and you have a Christmas tree farm, right?
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Jessica : And you have like the perfect, you know, winter wonderland set up for it. But it is a lot that goes into it. And, you know, John, do you care just to share a little bit about like just general production or a general like seasonal overview? Because you're busy all year round with those trees. It's not just, you know, at harvest time with them.
Jon Bednarski: Right. we We definitely are. And and there's there's all different levels ah in our membership of how people do, ah you know, choose and cut or growing Christmas trees. And, you know, my sister and her husband live next door. He's an electrical engineer, so very technical and very helpful on certain parts of it. You know, I've been in the construction business, building business for 40 years and also in the cattle business for 20 years. And so,
Jon Bednarski: ah You know, my daughter's involved on the social media side, my sister's involved on the marketing side. And so we've got a whole group really ah with all of the knowledge that we need to hopefully be successful. But it still depends on keeping that Christmas tree alive. And so.
Jon Bednarski: every spring we plant between a thousand and two thousand christmas trees on on an area that we prepare hopefully in the fall of the year or early spring to to be able to do that and um you know this year is a great example of you know mother nature raising havoc because we were 10 to 12 inches above normal rainfall and um you know the trees kind of get used to that and then all of a sudden there's no rain and so we We decided early on in this Kentucky climate that we would put in irrigation.
Jon Bednarski: So we have about 5,000 trees in the ground right now, 4,000 at my place. And then my sister and brother-in-law live next door and they've got about 1,000 trees. And so They're all under irrigation.
Jon Bednarski: So you say, well, that's great. As soon as the rain stops, you start the irrigation and everything's just great and just fine. Well, it doesn't work that way ah because you're dealing with, you know, high temperatures, you're dealing with wind speed.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Jon Bednarski: You know, there's all kinds of things that have an effect on how much you water those trees. So, um and and I would say out of the 35 or 40 members that we have in the Kentucky Christmas Tree Association, there's probably only a few that that irrigate.
Jon Bednarski: And I think to be successful, ah you've got to do that. And I think we figured it out ah one time. It's about $2.50 a tree to put in irrigation. Now, the cost of water is another story, but
Plant People: Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: ah That's what our cost is. And so in the cost of ah buying a Christmas tree goes up every year. um You know, we're planting 12 to 18 inch ah trees in the ground. We auger every one of them in um when we plant. And so, um but You know, our losses ah could be anywhere from, you know, five to 10% of a crop that's planted, but people that are not irrigating, that are doing what Jessica said, that are just planting the trees and hoping they'll live.
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: they could have 70, 80, 90%. seventy eighty ninety percent They could have, they could lose a whole crop ah in a year. And we're we're just not willing to put that time into the planting and setting up all of the things that you need to make it work and and just leave it on its own.
Plant People: Is that just irrigation, John? I know there's lots of types of irrigation. Is that just lines that lay along the ground? Because I'm thinking about operations like mowing and maintenance.
Jon Bednarski: Right, yeah. We use drip irrigation.
Plant People: Drip.
Jon Bednarski: So we actually, we we put them on grids and and you can plant between, you know, 1,000 and 1,500 trees per acre, ah depending on your grid spacing. And so we space, sir and it's taken us a,
Jon Bednarski: few years to figure out what's the best formula for doing that. But right now we're planting our trees eight feet apart and ah the rows are eight feet apart and then the trees are six foot apart.
Jon Bednarski: And then where we lay that orchard tubing down and that drip irrigation, we actually, um we kill the grass so that we don't have to mow that. But I literally mow 4,000 trees once a week or once every week and a half,
Plant People: no
Jon Bednarski: during that grass growing season to maintain that.
Plant People: We had started a conversation at the very beginning, just before we started recording. And that was one of the biggest things. that I took over a small Christmas tree operation for a couple of years when I was at Brewer College.
Plant People: And I was like, Brett, you know, you put them in the ground and Jessica, one of you guys said that and you just harvest them. Not much work, right? But then I quickly learned that just the mowing, the shearing, the shaping, the insect control that's necessary sometimes, all of that just, there's lots of maintenance for that first, what, seven, 10 years, whatever it takes to produce your first crop of trees, John. ah There's a lot that goes into that that you continually have to do while you're waiting on those trees to to size up, isn't there?
Jon Bednarski: Yeah. And, you know, I always joke with people, I kind of compare us to the bourbon industry where you're you're you're making that that white the white dog and you're putting it in a barrel and then you're waiting four and five and six years. And ah we have an annual crop, but not for seven or eight years.
Plant People: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jon Bednarski: And so there's a lot of things that can happen during those first years.
Jessica : Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: seven to eight years. And, in you know, we continually go back and um this year our losses were a little bit higher, but ah continually go back and replant those trees um in those spaces.
Jon Bednarski: And, you know, Jessica would be able to comment on this, but probably ah some of the biggest challenges, and you mentioned insects, ah probably ah deer ah is probably one of our biggest pressures.
Jessica : i I wanted to mention that i because I want you to share about ah your brother-in-law's invention to deal with the deers for a while because it was pretty pretty cool if it's still working, right?
Jon Bednarski: Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: Yeah, it is.
Jessica : Hopefully.
Jon Bednarski: Yeah.
Jessica : Good.
Jon Bednarski: Yeah. He calls it the deerinator. It's an electronic, uh, solar charged, uh, like a wind sock that comes up out of the ground when the deer pass it, there's a sensor.
Jon Bednarski: And then there's a, yeah I believe it's a German shepherd that's barking ah to scare the deer. And so that it has some some use. and But after a while, the deer get used to some of that stuff and it it doesn't really seem to bother it. But he has done something this year that...
Jon Bednarski: ah we've we've done a little bit of in previous years, and that's fencing, ah but not building an eight or 10 foot fence, which is typically what you would need to do.
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: We're using electric cattle fencing, two rows, an inner row, ah closer to the trees, ah four foot sticking the ground or pushing the ground posts. electrified and then come back two or three feet with a single strand ah in between those. And the deer supposedly have a depth perception problem. And he's monitoring that with cameras and he's had very little activity.
Jon Bednarski: Our fields with our 4,000 trees are pretty broke up and that's a challenge to do that. And so we've tried, we've done some of that, but we also, there's sprays out there, but we're just now seeing the bucks are in rut.
Jon Bednarski: And they're out there showing, marking the ground. And so we've got some losses. And every time we lose a tree, I look at the dollar sign.
Plant People: It's ah the nature of the damage, John, if you could go into that a little bit. It's not necessarily chewing on the trees, but it's what? Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: Yeah, they'll they'll go in there with their horns and they'll rub they'll rub the branches off one side of the tree.
Plant People: yeah
Jon Bednarski: And at that point, you know, um we spent five or six dollars for the tree, choose and cut operation. could You could receive anywhere from 100 to $150 for a tree for people coming out for the experience. So I look at that number there and I say, that's my loss because that And then some people will keep those trees in the ground because the deer will come back to those trees and and continue to destroy them. But, um you know, they cut them off, the boughs off for greenery and and things like that to to use in other operations.
Jon Bednarski: Personally, I don't like to look at that tree for the next six or seven years. We usually dig it out, put another tree in the ground and go on. um So deer is dearer are definitely a challenge.
Jon Bednarski: ah The weather conditions are a challenge. But one of the things that Jessica can probably talk more intelligently about than I is is root rot or photophora, which is in the soybean and corn industry already, but that's an annual crop.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: And so by the time that root rot kills that plant, it's harvested. ah but with our tree and it's, it's not just here in Kentucky, it's everywhere. I mean, Western North Carolina, where there's a ton of Fraser firs grown, it's a huge, huge issue about those losses for them. And, and ah you know, we're just, there's just not a lot of work being done to, I think in the soybean industry, they've got a photographer ready seed now ah that helps it's a coded seed. And so um you know, and, and,
Jon Bednarski: What happens with that disease is when we pull that tree out, we send it to UK or wherever we send it for for to to check it, they always it seems like it's always photophora. And the stress on the tree is what causes the photophora to kill the tree.
Jon Bednarski: So my question is, what's the stress? Is it too much rain? Is it not enough rain? Is it insects? Is it deer damage? What weakened the tree so that the photographer would kill the tree? And that's that's probably the most frustrating thing for us.
Jessica : Right. Because it most it, it's like environmental, right?
Brett: Oh,
Jessica : That's out of control, you know, out of your control. So that's what makes it extra frustrating. What were you going to say, Brett?
Brett: I was going to ask for some, just some, um, um, maybe the, the new Biest to this. So, uh, two questions. One is, um, so I, I asked chat GPT that the Latin name for Christmas tree, and they told me that it wasn't, there wasn't one there. They're actually different species. So I wanted to see what, uh,
Brett: what species you grow and what other species you may be seeing folks in Kentucky either work with, struggle with, give up on, uh, et cetera.
Jon Bednarski: Sure.
Brett: And then the other one was just within those species. i'm sure there's some, some variability, but you know, what are the ranges of years of production for those, those different species? You know, i think there's some of someone's going to grow fast something's going to grow grow slow or be be popular um so yeah just what species you do and then we um I'd love to hear about the pruning and shaping stuff that that Ray had mentioned too
Jon Bednarski: yeah
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: sure Yeah, I had talked to Ray earlier about about that. You know, when we first started, because we were beginners, ah we joined ah that Kentucky Christmas Tree Association and and ah to see what other people were going. No sense trying to reinvent the wheel here in the state of Kentucky. And so...
Jon Bednarski: um That first year, ah four years ago, we planted Norway spruce. ah We bought them, and this is just completely unheard of in the industry, but um we bought four-gallon container trees. We put 500 of them in the ground and ah you know augured them in with 12- or 16-inch augers. These were pretty big trees trying to get a two- or three-year jump on production because I thought, i'm um I'm a marketing guy, and I thought, well, if I can sell a Christmas tree for $120 $150 and twenty to one hundred and fifty dollars in a operation,
Jon Bednarski: I can spend $20 each on those 500 trees and and get myself a two or three year jump. Instead of seven years um in the ground, I got five years in the ground. And those trees um we have right now, some of them are six or seven feet tall, but we're still not going to sell those trees this year. We're going to wait another year or two. We're bringing in 150 trees from another grower.
Jon Bednarski: We're And the, and, and so we'll wait for those eight or nines or tens ah for people that want a taller tree. um Because we came back the following year after spending $20 a tree and we spent $5 a tree on gallon container trees. Well, those trees, you know, they're about three to three and a half feet tall. So there's a big gap and that's, that's lack of knowledge and just not having everything lined up.
Jon Bednarski: Should have come back and planted, you know, for, four gallon trees again, maybe for two more years. so So that's live and learn. But ah we also found out that a lot of guys doing Norway spruce are doing bald and burlap trees because Norway spruce, it's beautiful tree, does pretty good on our soil.
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: um But needle retention is a challenge with that tree.
Plant People: Uh-huh.
Jon Bednarski: You can't cut that tree on Thanksgiving day and put it in the house because by December, 25th, you're going to have a customer who's not real happy with you. So, um you know, and there's all kinds of different sprays and things that help with needle retention. and and And those are certainly viable. So what we're going to do is we're going to have what we call Spruce Day. And Spruce Day will be about two weeks before Christmas.
Jon Bednarski: And we'll do that ah maybe next year or maybe two years from now. So we kind of changed directions and started planting fir trees. um A lot of growers doing it in the state. um You know, the number one Christmas tree in the nation is Fraser Fir, you know, nationwide.
Jon Bednarski: And, you know, that's what you're going to buy at Home Depot and that's what you're going to buy at Lowe's. And those trees have tremendous needle retention. And those trees that are at Lowe's and Home Depot, those trees are being cut right now.
Jon Bednarski: And they're going in either cold storage or up in Michigan. We were up there this summer at the National Christmas Tree Association ah meeting. ah They'll put them in these tall pine stands um and those trees will start going out in a couple of weeks.
Jon Bednarski: Yeah.
Plant People: how does uh how does the canin and the doug fir like re needle retention compare to the frazier i mean is it are those still pretty good do you know much about those
Jon Bednarski: Yeah. like
Jon Bednarski: yeah yeah Yeah, the Canaan fir, actually, the the seat original seed stock camp came out of Canaan, West Virginia, and has a lot of similarities to Fraser fir.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: Not too many people doing Doug fir here, but but the Frasiers...
Plant People: yeah
Jon Bednarski: ah we We do have one grower of Fraser firs in the state of Kentucky who has been very, very successful.
Jessica : Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: And Jessica knows who that is. And, you know, there's there's no secret about It's Tom Neiman. And ah Tom, his family's been in Christmas trees for generations.
Jon Bednarski: And he's right outside of Lexington. I'm giving him a little pitch here. but But he's got probably 20,000, 25,000 trees the ground.
Plant People: wow
Jon Bednarski: He's years old. He's my mentor. And he is still going strong. He was at UK as a professor for a number of years. He's a landscape architect. And so I've been following on his coattails, trying to figure this whole thing out. And, you know, Tom has gone in there and made all of these soil amendments to his soils.
Jon Bednarski: to to stack the deck and help those trees grow. And he's, you know, his comment is, if I can get those trees two or three years down the road, um um I'll make that into a perfect tree. And he, his trees are perfect. And he sells out every year.
Jon Bednarski: And it's a, it's a phenomenal story. So, But anyway, the cane and fir is very similar to that. So we're planting a lot of those.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Jon Bednarski: ah Interestingly, um the the seeds from those trees that we buy ah come out of ah Ohio State University. They've got a stand of older trees, pine cones. and And then we buy those, those seeds get sent to Weyerhaeuser out on the West coast and those trees are grown out there.
Jon Bednarski: And then they are shipped back to Ohio when we buy them from ah a wholesaler out of Columbus, Ohio, who also has some seeds dug. So um it's an interesting traveling, you know, where the seeds go.
Plant People: Yeah, that it bounces back and forth. Yeah, that's interesting.
Jon Bednarski: Yep.
Plant People: With a lot of that development background work, I know the stock came ah from the East Coast.
Jon Bednarski: Yep.
Plant People: was Was it Ohio State that helped, did a lot of development on that one, i believe, somehow?
Jon Bednarski: Yes, absolutely.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: Yeah, they're huge. They've got, they've got acres and acres of these 30 and 40 foot Canaan fir trees that they're, they're harvesting the seed from every year and sending them out West.
Jessica : Thank you.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Jon Bednarski: And it's quite a, it's quite a story. So, uh, in the in In between, you know, we've tried some other other species of trees um that are less so soible less susceptible to photophora.
Jon Bednarski: And some of those varieties are exotic trees. ah We're doing some Turkish fir. We're doing some Korean fir. We're doing a ah ah species called concolor fir, Nordman fir.
Jon Bednarski: The challenge with those trees are that they're very slow growing.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: And so it's not a seven or eight year deal. And you know we're we're looking for production, we're looking for product to sell, and that just doesn't you know doesn't really meet the meet the business plan.
Plant People: yeah
Jon Bednarski: ah The Canaan fir is definitely a faster grower. And so this coming year, you know all the trees we're planting are Canaan firs. Last year we planted some con colors and some Canaan's. The con color is just not doing great here.
Jon Bednarski: and And that could be soil conditions, that could be climate or environment. So, you know, it's that it's that live and learn, you know, doing it doing a little bit of pine. um We actually bought some Virginia pine through the Kentucky ah has growers or the Kentucky, yeah what I don't know what the group's called, but, you know.
Jessica : Division of Forestry, did they?
Jon Bednarski: Yeah, Division of Forestry, and they've done pretty well.
Jessica : Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: And, in you know, over in some states, you know, that's a tree that they're using. um We are also planted some ah Leland and some Murray cypress trees. That's what Christmas trees are when you get south of Tennessee, down to Tennessee and Georgia, um trying to, you know, see if if those will do good in our climate.
Jon Bednarski: So,
Plant People: I know the white pine smell really good and they have a pretty good growth rate, but man, I try to hang a two pound glass Christmas bulb off of the white pine. I mean, is that kind of a, there's much a demand for that?
Jon Bednarski: yeah yeah but yeah the pine Yeah, the pines we're growing, we actually, my brother-in-law's got some scotch pine and he's got those Virginia pines, you know, and once you shape and shear those trees up and take some of that limb length off, ah they'll hold a they'll hold an ornament.
Plant People: Good deal. deal
Jon Bednarski: but <unk>re we're not doing it this year, but we'll eventually get into roping, uh, and Garland. and And that's, those are great products to use in that.
Jessica : Mm-hmm.
Jon Bednarski: And, you know, last year, even though we weren't selling an open at our gift shop, we, we, uh, made about a hundred Christmas wreaths and porch pots. And when we make a Christmas wreath, we put five five different varieties of greenery in it.
Jon Bednarski: We actually use cedar, arborvitae, white pine, fir, um, and maybe something else. So, ah but typically not, not spruce.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: So.
Plant People: ah You've mentioned several times, just going back to the industry in general, ah the, and the state of things in Kentucky, you've mentioned a term two or three times, choose and cut.
Jon Bednarski: Yeah.
Plant People: Now I know there's probably different business models, wholesale versus more of an experienced based Christmas tree program.
Jon Bednarski: Right.
Plant People: I mean, what are people doing or what are you guys doing in Kentucky as far as how you're basing your business?
Jon Bednarski: Sure.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: Sure. You know, there's there's really no operations in the state of Kentucky that are big enough to do wholesale.
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: You know, we would love to buy our Christmas trees from another grower in the state of Kentucky, that 150 trees that we we want to sell this year. We'd, you know. We have 20 artisans in our gift shop this year, and every one of them is from the state of Kentucky and nothing from overseas, nothing from out of state. And that's going to be one of our goals. And so ah our our Christmas trees this year, ah we're getting them through another grower here in the state that buys a ah semi-load out of Western North Carolina. So ah most almost everybody that I know of, or really everybody that I know of in the state of Kentucky and in terms of membership, ah is a choose and cut operation.
Jon Bednarski: It's really when you're small, ah depending upon how many trees a year you're going to do, it's really the only way to make any kind of money at it.
Plant People: So more of an agritourism destination kind of experience.
Jon Bednarski: his
Jon Bednarski: Absolutely. You know, and and that and that's really the been the business model for our beef farming. We, you know, we sold direct and and still continue to sell direct and, you know, but you got to love people.
Jon Bednarski: ah You got to love people on your farm and you better be passionate about what you're doing or else it doesn't work.
Plant People: Okay.
Jon Bednarski: And, and you know, i it's it's interesting when you see people getting into the industry here in the state. I can almost tell you the ones that are going to make it in the ones that aren't just based on, you know, how much effort they're going to put in, like Jessica talked about and are they people, you know, do they love people?
Jon Bednarski: And, uh, you know, if you're going to bring people to your farm, you better love people.
Plant People: Well, it sounds like you had some very formative experiences. that Was it Vermont you said you grew up in?
Jon Bednarski: I did.
Plant People: and that
Jon Bednarski: I grew up in Vermont and then I i moved to Kentucky and in 1980 with a log home and timber frame producer. And I just retired from them after 40 years. So I've been in the wood business really all my life.
Jon Bednarski: And, you know, I grew up on about 70 acres and, you know, My uncle was a dairy farmer, um and so you know we showed dairy cows in the in the county fair when I was a kid, but didn't really start farming on my own until 2005 as what I consider a first-generation farmer.
Plant People: Thank you.
Jessica : Something that...
Brett: Well, I have a question just about the the way that you think about the business.
Jessica : Oh, go ahead, Brett.
Brett: So do you think of yourself as operating a direct beef farm and christmas direct beef and Christmas tree farm? Or do you think about them as separate? And if you think about them as one, how important do you think it is to have a diversified stream? Like, can someone just be a Christmas tree farmer in Kentucky, do you think?
Jon Bednarski: Yeah, I think, you know, diversification, I think, is is very important in farming because, you know, you can see what's going on right now in the beef industry and who knows where that, you know, what direction that's going to go in. and And of course, we're pretty insulated with direct ah marketing. You know, we did farmers markets for 18 years.
Jon Bednarski: two so you know every Saturday for 18 years, two separate farmers market. But we grew ah an email customer base up close to 3,000 people.
Jon Bednarski: So we don't do farmers markets anymore. We do a e-blast and, you know, 95% of our sales are home delivery. And this is in metropolitan Louisville.
Jon Bednarski: And so, you know, our business, that market is strong and just, just interestingly over, and and I'm off subject a little bit, but just interestingly over the last two weeks, the phone or the email orders have gone out the roof like COVID because people see this stuff about Argentina.
Jon Bednarski: They panic about the price. And so, but once we started into the Christmas tree business about four years ago, we cut our production by 50% on the beef cattle side. Still will always do it. Want the cattle on the farm.
Jon Bednarski: want visitors to see the cattle and to share that experience with them. We'll have a little retail cooler in the gift shop selling beef. um So I think you can definitely do both.
Jon Bednarski: um You know, I think sometimes people get too diversified and they're doing, you know, I want to do 100% on two things.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Jon Bednarski: And if you're doing 10 things, are you doing 25% on each one? and And, you know, we want to do the best we can. and and But I think it still gets down to, you know, sharing what you're doing on the farm and bringing people back. Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: i you know, I've been in a few mentorship programs over the years, being a mentor to mentees and and and recently did one with USDA. And ah to be able to give back to people just like me who want to get started ah is just rewarding.
Jessica : Thank you.
Plant People: a quick question as ah far as you mentioned, you know, this is an, ex it sounds like an experience base, your, you know, operation that you're setting up there. And I believe you said Sherwood acres there in me Mercer County, your operation, but people that are looking to come cut that may have never come and cut a, a fresh Christmas tree. I mean, I have a 12 year old, I'm asking more ah just as much for me as for everybody else.
Plant People: He's still thinks I'm cool enough to travel with me a little bit, but he's, If I were to load them up in the truck and after Thanksgiving, Jessica, okay, I'm going to wait.
Jessica : That's right.
Plant People: I'm not going to do it right now. I'm going to load up the day after Thanksgiving and come looking, let's say your place, for instance. What can I expect? Some activities, family style activities, anything like that? Or do I just come and cut a tree and we're done?
Jon Bednarski: Yeah. No, ah we're we're all about the family part of it. And, you know, my daughter and her husband are involved and they've got a nine year old and a six year old and they're out there planting Christmas trees every spring with us.
Jon Bednarski: And they'll be working in the gift shop. And so, ah you know, we're trying to. trying to get that next generation to come along. um But I will tell you right now, there this year we're not cutting our trees. We're going to bring in those pre-cut trees. And so the experience will be a little bit different that way. But um we still want the family to come. We've got a kids' activity room.
Jon Bednarski: uh, where the kids will get to make something, uh, free of charge for their parents. Uh, we've got great photo opportunities. We have a 1935 Ford red one ton truck that's been fully restored, uh, that you can get your picture taken in front of.
Jon Bednarski: And, um, obviously we'd love to have people walk around the farm and see what the future is going to bring for us. And, um, As I mentioned earlier, we've got our you know crafts and and things, and we'll have hot chocolate and snacks and stuff. And so we're trying to build that experience. And ah you know this will be our first year, so it's a bit of a gamble.
Jon Bednarski: We're a little bit nervous um because you can – I think we tagged over 500 items in the gift shop that we bought from these craftspeople. If you don't sell those, you can carry them until next year.
Jon Bednarski: But the Christmas trees, the 150 Christmas trees, guess what? If they don't sell – They're going in the mulch pile. So, ah you know, that's that's the challenge of it. So it's exciting, but we're a little bit nervous. But we've done a lot of stuff. As I mentioned, I'm in the marketing business. We've joined Mercer County, Boyle County Chambers. We've got ribbon cutting.
Jon Bednarski: on the first Saturday. ah Santa will be here ah most every Saturday. And so and there's in quite honestly, if you look across the state at other growers, ah they all do things a little bit different.
Jon Bednarski: you know Some of them you have a yeah yeah have a time set up.
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: ah Barker's up in Lexington area, have been doing it a lot of years. you get on their website and ah you know you set up a time to go out there and cut a tree. And I think theyll i think they have close to, I don't know, 100 to 150 people a day come in and pick their tree and cut their tree and take it home.
Jon Bednarski: And so they're all little bit different. But I think we're the only ones that have a retail gift shop and kids activities combined.
Jessica : And I can say it is beautiful because ah couple of years ago, John hosted our annual Ag Field Day. And this is before the Christmas tree stuff started. And we were set up in the tobacco barn. And it was traditional tobacco barn, dirt floor that we were set up in.
Jessica : That tobacco barn is getting fully converted it into this beautiful gift shop. And if you know what a silo is, if anybody has that background of doing a silo for silage to feed cattle, you They've completely converted their silo into a bathroom.
Jessica : Right. And it is ah beautiful property and all like beautiful photo opportunities right near the lake.
Jon Bednarski: Yeah. Right.
Jessica : um So it'll be a great, a great spot. And I had that question too, like Ray you mentioned, because in my mind, I'm thinking, I'm like, okay, if I bring three small children out there, are we going to have a saw?
Plant People: Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: yeah
Jessica : Are we going to have a little, you know, like a little ax?
Plant People: Is it going to be like national lampoons?
Jessica : Yeah. is Yeah, is, um you know, because I've thought about that, like you mentioned, different different ones do different things where they're like kind of pre-cut for you when you arrived or, ah you know, do they start cutting it to make it easier?
Plant People: You're going to travel all the way? Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: i Right.
Jessica : You know, how much work does one put into cutting their tree, right? Yeah.
Jon Bednarski: Sure, sure. Well, you know, the the first the first phone call we made when we started talking about um getting into this business was our to our Farm Bureau agent, um because how how do you cut these trees and can can the customer cut these trees?
Jessica : Smart.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Jon Bednarski: And they're still OK with that. um We would supply the saw, ah no no chainsaws. And, you know, they would go out and they would cut the tree. And, and you know, some people are going to want, you know, supervision, supervision.
Jon Bednarski: ah someone you know from our staff to go out there and help them and some people are going to do it on their own. And so um typically what the growers do throughout the state is they'll mark the trees that are for sale.
Jon Bednarski: They'll go out a few weeks ahead of time because you know you don't want a tree over here that's three feet tall being cut for somebody that wants to just stick it on the porch. And so ah they'll do that and usually put the price tag on it. So you know when you cut a tree what what you're getting into.
Jon Bednarski: And then at that point, ah you know, some have sleds, some have carts and ah you'll pull those trees back and then check out, you know, just like you would anywhere else. um And so, you know, with us, we'll have an area where all the trees ah will be displayed so that they're not, they come in netted.
Jon Bednarski: And ah they'll all be on display so that you can look at the tree, turn it around, see which one fits you best. And we'll have trees. We buy a group of trees that are six to seven foot, ah seven to eights, nine to tens. And so we'll have multiple sizes of these will be Fraser firs.
Jon Bednarski: and ah And then once you pick out the tree, we'll re-net the tree ah so that you can put it in the back of your truck or put it on the car or how however you're going to transport that. And again, plenty of photo opportunities. And speaking of that, we have lot of tree farms have you know photographers come out because their customers want to be do a photo shoot at a Christmas tree farm. And so we have one coming this year just to give it a try.
Jon Bednarski: And, uh, so she's, but she'll, she'll be here with her clients. She'll have the whole day. and I think she's got two or three settings and, uh, um, you know, we'll have the truck out there so that they can use that or trees as the background.
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: And, um, but they won't be there during the time that we're open normal hours. It's just too much.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Well, one of the things that we we talk a little bit about or we try to talk about is the the cultural component of what we do here with horticulture and the way that it fits into our lives.
Plant People: In the... Oh, good word.
Brett: And I was recently out at Evans Orchard um on the in the morning and had a nice hot apple cider.
Jon Bednarski: Yep. Yep.
Brett: And it's the first i hot apple cider I've had it in a while. And it transported me to this time in my life where um we my family would go every year to cut a tree at at Huber's Orchard across the river. I'm from Louisville.
Jon Bednarski: yeah
Brett: And if you bought if you bought a tree, you got a you know cup of free hot apple cider for you they know the family to cut.
Jessica : you
Brett: And I can remember my dad and my mom all bundled up and we'd have a blanket to lay down. And my dad would you know, we hem and haw about which tree and this one or this one and this one. We take a little you know piece of paper to stick on one branch that we like that one and then maybe that one and then eventually decide. And I was just I was just reminded of like how fully integrated into like my memory that was that here I am drinking this apple cider, thinking about cutting this tree. We'd also go up there and get um get to ah pumpkins as well.
Jon Bednarski: Mm-hmm.
Brett: And I remember that more vividly than I remember just about any of my birthdays, just like a lot of other events. And I think that that, I don't know, I just think that that is something we shouldn't overlook the the the power and the the value of that.
Brett: And it was, we'd have a little bit of a drive, you know, and it was ah it was a little up and down hilly.
Jessica : um
Brett: So it was a little bit of the over the river and through the woods to grandmother's house kind of vibe. And i think as people were thinking about those traditions, this, it is a really, was a really valuable one to me.
Brett: And I have really good memories of my, ah my family doing that. And I'm sure we were all fighting at the time, actually, but in retrospect, ah yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: And we we would have the saws and that you would, they, they, this was a while back, so they didn't really supervise too much. You'd go out and pick your tree and, They, they'd wrap it up, shake it and wrap it up and do the whole, the whole deal.
Brett: But um I don't know, as as I'm hearing you talk about this experience that you're trying to cultivate on your, on your space, it's, it's just bringing back a lot of memories for me.
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: Yeah, and i think I think, you know, you hit the nail on the head, that's exactly what we want to reproduce. And, um you know, my millennial kids... you know, that's, that's what they want for their children. And, you know, the challenge going forward is, you know, what about the next generation and the next generation? And, um, you know, are we growing that are we, you know, declining from that? And, you know, the, the national Christmas tree association spends a tremendous amount of money. They have a checkoff program, just like the beef program does for these big producers to put money into promoting the industry. And, um,
Jon Bednarski: You know, the the Christmas tree industry is very much like the beef industry that I've been involved in for almost 20 years. You've got farmers that are in their late 50s, early 60s that are getting out.
Jon Bednarski: And who's who are the mentors to help these new people get in? And, ah you know, there's going to be a day when, you know, um you know, so even some of our producers here in the state are going to are going to exit. And, you know, what happens to those trees?
Jon Bednarski: You know, you've got 10 or 15,000 trees on your farm. What's going to happen to those? And obviously, we're hoping somebody steps in and takes that over. And, you know, that's why that, you know, I've talked to Kentucky or the National Christmas Tree Board about a mentorship program for for growers there.
Jon Bednarski: And I think it's important.
Brett: Well, you know, Taylor Swift grew up on a Christmas tree farm.
Jon Bednarski: I saw that.
Brett: i don't I think we need to lean into that.
Plant People: How did you know that, Brett? I mean, only you would know that.
Brett: think we need to lean into that. um
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Oh, you know, I'm a bit of a historian. Right.
Jessica : yeah a little bit of a swifty a closet ah closeted swifty right
Plant People: Yeah, a little bit of a closet swifty. Yeah.
Brett: And I mean, she spoke highly of the fact that she did that.
Jessica : yeah
Brett: So I'm just thinking we've got, you know, she's raised the profile of the NFL even higher. She's, you know, wore a T-shirt brought about some otter foundation recently, and they got millions of dollars overnight in donations.
Brett: So just saying it's not a trivial thing to lean into. Maybe.
Plant People: We, what can she do for Christmas to growers?
Jon Bednarski: Well, and right well and and just just so you know, she and I share the same birthday.
Jessica : Oh.
Jessica : oh
Jon Bednarski: Not the same year, but the same birthday. So maybe I'm meant to be in a Christmas tree business.
Plant People: Maybe that's an inroad.
Brett: That's right. It's all coming together.
Plant People: Maybe, maybe that's an inroad. Maybe that, maybe that's Uh, ah
Jessica : Well, you have mentioned your fellow Christmas tree growers several times, and you can find all of those guys on the Kentucky Christmas Tree Grower Association website, which I had pulled up and looked, and it says, at the time of recording today, there are 56 days until Christmas.
Jessica : So they have a countdown on their website ah to when Christmas will be here.
Jon Bednarski: Yes. Yep. Yep.
Jessica : But lots of great information on that website to find your local Christmas tree grower and take you links right to their their farms.
Plant People: Yeah. Nice.
Jon Bednarski: ye
Plant People: nice
Jon Bednarski: yeah Yeah, and we we have you know we're pretty active on Facebook as well as our website. And so um you know that's got all the information for us. um you know Sherwood Acres Christmas Trees, both the website and the Facebook page. and so it's It's interesting, just over the last 30 days, we've had, i don't know, three to four times doubled on our Facebook page just because we're getting near the season and people are searching.
Jon Bednarski: And so we're excited about that, obviously.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: yeah
Brett: So is is Sherwood the name of of the beef business as well?
Jon Bednarski: It is, yeah, Sherwood Acres Beef and then Sherwood Acres Christmas Trees.
Brett: Okay.
Jon Bednarski: Yep.
Brett: so if people can People can figure out how to source from you for beef kind of year round-ish, I assume.
Jon Bednarski: Yep. Yep.
Brett: And then that you said you're going to open your gift shop on the 28th.
Jessica : you
Brett: is that Is that kind of the opening the gates for for the Christmas and tree season for you all?
Jon Bednarski: Yes.
Jon Bednarski: It is. Yeah. Yeah. And we're, we're, we're, uh, that'll be Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then we'll be open every Saturday and Sunday, you know, prior to Christmas. And, um, you know, we'll be there 10 to four.
Jon Bednarski: And, um, one thing I didn't really talk much about is, you know, we, we have always been into, you know, environmental stewardship and sustainability.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Jon Bednarski: And I think that's one of the things that that pointed me in the direction of Christmas trees. There's just, there's just nothing more sustainable than a Christmas tree farm because, you know, we're planning every year we're replanting, you know, we're, you know, we're, we have 2000 feet of lake frontage on Harrington Lake and we're very concerned about what happens to that lake as it's a water source for Harrodsburg and Danville. And,
Jon Bednarski: You know, the these Christmas trees create a tremendous sustainable crop for that.
Jessica : Thank you.
Jon Bednarski: And, you know, we've done all kinds of things on the farm to protect that waterway and, and you know, just happy that, you know, the Christmas tree thing goes right along with that.
Plant People: Seems like it almost, i mean, it doesn't sell itself. People still have to know that that you're there. But for me, it's such a, like Brett said, have such strong memories and it's the cell it's the smells and the the colors of pumpkins and Christmas trees, but all of those things.
Jon Bednarski: Yep.
Brett: The feel of sap on your hands.
Plant People: Yeah, the sticky, if you're a white pine, you stick to absolutely everything.
Jon Bednarski: There you go.
Plant People: Some of the ones have more resin than others, but there's no better smell to me than fresh greenery or a Christmas tree. Jessica, I don't know if what your family feels about it, but I do love that smell.
Plant People: it It's an easy sell for me.
Jessica : We are very pro fresh Christmas tree. So, um, we, and I don't, i don't think I have an artificial tree in my house anymore. So it's one of our favorite things to get every year.
Jessica : um Now only had one kind of funky experience with one and to share. And it's an entomology thing, which in the end, what did I do being myself?
Brett: Oh,
Jessica : I took pictures of it and wrote a newsletter article about it um where most people I think would have like burned everything.
Plant People: No?
Brett: wow.
Jessica : Uh, they were, they were a giant conifer aphids that had showed up on my Christmas tree.
Brett: oh
Jessica : And unfortunately the worst part about them was as aphids do, they have that sticky honeydew. actually had to wash a lot of my Christmas ornaments because I thought my Christmas tree was just leaking a lot of sap.
Jon Bednarski: ah
Jessica : And just like Clark Griswold, I was like so much sap everywhere on my Christmas presents.
Brett: little Leaky.
Jessica : Like what's wrong with this tree? and then after Christmas was over, there was still sap everywhere. And I like got up in the tree and realized it was just full of these giant aphids that people often think are ticks on their tree because they are so big.
Brett: and
Jessica : They are huge. um
Brett: Giant even.
Jessica : Giant.
Plant People: Only you would run into that, Jessica.
Jessica : But.
Plant People: I've never ran into anything like that, but it would of course happen to you and you would identify them.
Jessica : But, but, but it was okay. Cause then I, you know, used it as education and something else to mention about fresh Christmas trees.
Plant People: Yeah.
Jessica : And I don't know, John, if you've shared this with people as they're going to start getting trees is once you're done with your tree at the end of the year, when it comes to like recycling, it's something that I like to do. um in the past when I was living, when I didn't live on a farm,
Jessica : We would take ours to the division of fish and wildlife has drop-offs that can drop your Christmas tree and they take it for fish habitat.
Jon Bednarski: Yep.
Jessica : ah Now that I live on a farm and I have several ponds on our farm, we are taking those and putting them in our ponds for fish habitat as well.
Brett: Thank you.
Jessica : So if you're looking for a place to take your, you know, fresh cut tree afterwards, if you're not going to try to mulch it or, you know, do something else with it. and so just throwing it out on the side of the street, um,
Plant People: Thank you.
Jessica : you can do that. and they have a bunch of drop-off locations all around the state for those, for fish and wildlife.
Jon Bednarski: Right. Yeah. One, one last thing we will, we have our Christmas wreath table set up in there and my brother-in-law and I will make, you know, as many Christmas wreaths as people want to buy. And so we'll have that set up and, you know, we'll bring in our greenery and, and decorate those and that'll all be in, in the gift shop. So people can come right in. And eventually I think we'll have some, uh, decorating classes where, you know, we'll either make the wreath and you can decorate it or you'll actually make your own wreath and decorate your own. So,
Jon Bednarski: ah That's ongoing. ongoing
Brett: That's great. Well, I really appreciate you coming on and talking about the association, talking about your your years and experience in in this business.
Plant People: Thank
Brett: um Your enthusiasm for it is really, you can you can sense it, which is really cool.
Jessica : you
Brett: I think ah the mentees that you mentioned that you you've mentored over over time, where we're lucky lucky folks indeed, I think. So we'll we'll put links to the association as well as to the business and anything else that kind of came up in the course of our conversation and the in the show notes.
Brett: um If you haven't already, please take time to leave us a quick review either on Spotify or or Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You can email us at hortculturepodcast at gmail.com. You can also find us on Instagram at hortculturepodcast.
Brett: ah Follow us there.
Jessica : you
Brett: Let us know what your favorite Christmas tree memory is, and we'll share ours back as well. We appreciate you joining us. We hope as we grow this podcast, you'll grow with us, and we'll see you down the road.
Plant People: Thank you.
