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Tom Dade: Speed, Endurance & The Road to the 2025 World Mountain & Trail Running Championships
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On this episode, we sit down with Tom Dade as he prepares for his third World Mountain & Trail Running Championships.
We cover his standout 100k performance at Buffalo Stampede, the impact of working with a coach over the last year, and his journey from early national selection to chasing big results on the long trail stage in Canfranc.
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at Bix’s website for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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Transcript
Introduction to Tom Dade
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Peep Pursuits Podcast. My name is James Sieber and today we're kicking off a run of interviews towards the World Mountain and Trail Rining Championships with Tom Dade. Tom is representing Australia for the third time, even though he's only 26 years old in the long trail team.
00:00:32
Speaker
This interview is obviously to get to know Tom, to build his build up towards the champs, but also to know his story. He has a very interesting past in running, having done multiple long effort races and has recently started working with a coach that has meant that he's building his
Tom's Running Background
00:00:47
Speaker
speed.
00:00:47
Speaker
That has culminated in some standout performances, specifically at the Buffalo Stampeed 100k this year, which by all means is probably what got him back on the team. We hope you enjoy the interview series that we are going to be putting out over the coming weeks as we build towards Kang Frank.
00:01:03
Speaker
And with that, let's get straight to it, to the interview with Tom Dade. Tom, welcome to the People Toos podcast. How are you doing today? I'm going well, thank you. Thanks for having me on.
00:01:14
Speaker
I appreciate you coming on. You're kicking off the lead up to the World Mountain and Trail champs so we do appreciate you being the first person on for that series obviously we've had a few people on in the past that are on the team but excited to hear a bit more about your story as we build up to that obviously i've just said that you are on the team this is your third year in the team how does it feel coming back for a third time yeah it now feels feels good coming on again for a third time uh pretty surprised um that i managed to get on for a third time
00:01:47
Speaker
um and it feels kind of felt that way each time I've got on. um So pretty, pretty stoked to get on. So can't complain. You said the past that the first year you got on for Thailand in 22, technically the 2021, but 2022 champs that it was for a developmental spot.
Lessons from 2022 Championships
00:02:05
Speaker
Can you expand a little bit on that?
00:02:07
Speaker
Yeah. so So as far as I was, i was kind of, as far as I'm concerned, I don't know all the ins and outs and, and, what they're talking to each other about and the meetings and stuff. But, um, what I was kind of told was i was kind of getting on as a younger, um, person in the sport and they wanted to, um kind of, uh, what's the word for it?
00:02:31
Speaker
And like, no, not and like kind of invest into a younger, right. To give them the experience. So in the future for future teams, um, can hopefully, you know, i do better, uh, as, as the each world kind of goes on.
00:02:46
Speaker
So that's how I was kind of, um, yeah, told that what they were, they were kind of looking at as a developmental runner. Yeah. Which is a really good thing to hear. I think some of the questions that we had this year was about their policy of people who have to be able to finish in the top 50%. Kind of completely cut that but that person, the version of you in 2022 from having that experience. So it's nice to hear that's there. And seemingly they they haven't sort of stuck to too tightly with that.
00:03:17
Speaker
Looking back, because you're only 24 now, correct? How old am I? twenty I'm actually 26 now. 27. 26? 26 now? Yeah. yeah Okay.
00:03:27
Speaker
That's yeah really weird. It sure has you in the 20 to 3, 24 category. Okay. 26 now. So 2022. Yeah. That's weird. But still 22, you would have been 23. Yeah.
Mindset Shift: Performance vs Fun
00:03:33
Speaker
yeah it's weird um but still twenty two you would have been twenty three The lessons that you learn as a 23-year-old going to Thailand, representing your country, ah like getting exposure to all of the best in the world, like in that year, I think in the long trail, Adam Peterman from the US won, like he was a States champion.
00:03:55
Speaker
Like you're seeing the best of the best. What lessons did you learn from that event? Yeah, that actually was ah perfect learning experience for me because especially i think for me, because Uh, up to that stage, I was, i was just signing up for as many options as I could. Um, uh, like hadn't, and didn't have like any real plans. I was just going to the bakery and just buying the cheapest food I could for the runs.
00:04:25
Speaker
Like didn't worry about gels. Didn't worry about nutrient timing. Just, just like went in, did my best and was what it was. um And had ended up doing like pretty well on the more like local events. And the ones I also entered were more like cheaper because I didn't have a whole heap of money and things. So I wasn't entering, you know, the more expensive like UDAs or all that type of thing.
00:04:49
Speaker
um From where I was like attacking racing, I didn't really see the point because I wasn't trying to be ah elite or be the best or anything like that. yeah. going over there um and then you're taking off, you know, you're starting and you're running up like in a thousand meter climb.
00:05:06
Speaker
And now just to stay mid pack, you're actually having to like run at ah like a good clip up at a thousand meter climb instead of, you know, like hiking. If you want to be mid pack, you can't, you weren't hiking and you're running, you know, like sub fours off the start line. Yeah. Well, just, you know, just to be, I remember just being mid pack and I just,
00:05:27
Speaker
just a complete just elite level like competition and then you know getting to the nays station and there's everyone with their gels all perfectly planned and i've just got my like bag of cookies that i bought from safeways to thailand it's not over with me i'm trying to struggle to get them down whilst watching everyone else it seems just to be having a much easier time i'm getting gels down nutrient um like more specific nutrient things down. I was like, right, if i if i wanted if I want to try and compete with these type of people, which I had no interest in until really then, to be honest, um I need to change things around. So it completely kind of changed a bit more on how I wanted to go about my running.
00:06:08
Speaker
And if I wanted to try and see how far I could get, what I might need to do.
Balancing Training and Adventure
00:06:13
Speaker
So it was kind of a changing point and with my with me running.
00:06:21
Speaker
yeah It definitely sounds like you said going in before there, you were never really trying to be elite. You weren't thinking about running in that way. Did going to the Worlds switch that mindset for you?
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah, it it definitely it definitely did. um it did. And there's still, us the thing still to the heart of me, it's still, um, running to me is a bit more, like deeper. Like it's, just trying to find kind of like a purpose, I think, as I'm learning more about myself, you know, for life. Um, when I'm like in such a kind of privileged position and you're just trying to find, yeah, trying to find bigger purpose, um, when it isn't struggle, yeah you don't have to have the normal struggles like many other people do.
00:07:06
Speaker
so um know running, ultra running, become an outlet and just kind of just pushing myself. And I just wanted to push, you know, just push my boundaries as far as I could and just had no real interest in trying to be, you know, elite or anything like that.
00:07:22
Speaker
But I was kind of, it it kind of coincided with the time where I think I'd run like a 200 mile or I'd already done quite a few of the harder things. And it's kind of like, what else can I do? Like it kind of,
00:07:36
Speaker
kind of got to an end. and I'm like, well, there's not much. What am I, what am I doing kind of thing? Um, and it kind of gave me a new kind of purpose. i was like, oh, okay. Instead of just pushing like how, how well can I kind of do?
00:07:50
Speaker
So, um, you definitely changed like my perspective and what I was trying to achieve with the running instead of just smashing myself with hard races and frequent races.
Mental Challenges in Training
00:08:00
Speaker
Um,
00:08:01
Speaker
But with that being said, i'm still it's still a constant battle because um I still have that part of me in me. So it's hard to stay on on the path. Yeah.
00:08:13
Speaker
Do you find that you enjoy your training more now that you are searching for the performance side and the adventure and the sort of pushing yourself and discovering about yourself side? Or are you still drawn back to you preferred the training before? Yeah.
00:08:30
Speaker
It goes through waves, um to be honest with you. like i like so i I like the structure of just, you know, because I have my have a coach now that's kind of telling what to do with running and the structure and not having to worry about what training I'm doing.
00:08:47
Speaker
Um, but then, and that feels really good when it's going, you know, when you're hitting that, you know, and you don't need to think about sessions and things like that. Um, but then there's time where I can like feel a bit of like resentment building up because I'm like, oh, I want to go for this today. I feel like going for this 50 K run and then I want to do it five case swim afterwards. And then I want to do a white session because I've got a day off work or something. And I'm like, I can't, I can't do this. So then I kind of start to resent the actual, um,
00:09:17
Speaker
the the plan itself when I just get distracted by these like ideas or things that pop up in my head that interest me. So it's kind of like ah that constant battle between the two.
00:09:33
Speaker
Does Steve Brennan, who's your coach, does he have to give you these windows where you can just go and kind of let that adventurous side Yeah. ah Yeah. I mean, i kind of just, I ended up just taking them myself.
00:09:48
Speaker
Um, I kind of would go like, all right, like I'll be, okay there's this race in this race and I'll, I'll make sure I lock in for those. But then after that, you know, for a little bit, like I'll take just some more, um, like a break from structured training.
00:10:05
Speaker
Um, which still ends up kicking me in the ass because instead of doing, instead of having like a rest, um, actually could be doing more bit of whether it's swimming or something like that, which is probably why I feel tired all the time. But, um, yeah. So yeah, I just kind of give myself a like a ah little bit of unstructured training and and doing thing. And then before kind of coming back into it, that's kind of actually what happened.
00:10:29
Speaker
Um, just recently kind of burned myself out, um, leading into Buffalo I was just trying to everything I could to get back on the team. Um, but then just got burnt out cause of my, my body seems to hold up drew like durable wise, but, um, more of the mental things just start hate, resent the sports, like resenting everything. And I just need to like get away and do my thing for a bit.
00:10:52
Speaker
So I kind of had that four to six week break of that before. um finding out it's in the team and then locking in for Worlds now where it's back to structure. This is great. You're giving me so many different directions to go. going try not to forget to ask some questions, but I want to run with that thought because I did notice I was going through your Instagram as I do. and two two weeks after Buffalo, you said that the mind is more motivated than ever.
00:11:21
Speaker
But then but you were talking about coastal and like the hunger not being there, your head wasn't in it. what What had changed? Like what happened there? Yeah, the way I see it I just...
00:11:33
Speaker
quickly run down. So I got Buffalo, did Buffalo and did way better than I thought. Um, had pro honestly proved what I think probably the best race I've ever had. Um, and was just on a high from that. was like, all right, I just want just, I want to do the next race now. Like want to keep following the structured plan.
00:11:52
Speaker
um And probably, probably in reflection didn't take a, like this, a structured recovery and enough, like after a couple of weeks.
00:12:07
Speaker
Um, so I think like two weeks after I got like a 5k PB and um just things like that so it was like every you know everything was really good and then i just like within a week or two weeks just I just decided to get a few more niggles um we get nothing that would stop me from running um but a few niggles and then then that's when the mind just I just was like I don't know just getting up every morning just became just became like a complete chore like I'm sure everyone's probably had something like that before um yeah I actually think Tom it's really interesting you say that because I know that
00:12:44
Speaker
This is probably lee potentially less common actually in the elites because they know their body so well. They know what they can take. They've gone through these cycles. They've made these mistakes.
00:12:55
Speaker
But the everyday runner that is doing the Buffalo Stampede hundred ky gives themselves a couple of days off and then it's straight back into the next event and then it's the next event and then it's the next event. And the same thing what you're saying about the structure is that like you sign up to a coach, which is like a prime example, you're like, okay, I'm committing my time, my money, I'm gonna train for this event, I do really well and immediately like train for the next one and you get burnt out on the structure and you get burnt out trying to keep your body at this peak that it just can't sustain.
Consistent Performance in Races
00:13:22
Speaker
And it sounds like that's essentially where you were were at, does that sound? Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. ah
00:13:30
Speaker
I, I, something I've actually learned is he, uh, you're, if you're going to get injured, it's, it's usually like, it's not during the race, it's a week or two after the race. That's when everyone gets their stress fractures or something happened and to me. I'm lucky. It's and usually a mental thing, not a stress fracture, but like me, I got her stress fractured two weeks after two, three weeks after that race.
00:13:53
Speaker
ah And I wouldn't say that a mental burnout is any easier than a physical burnout, especially because you don't like a bone is somewhat easy.
00:14:04
Speaker
you You rehab it, you know, you know, the protocol, your mind, you don't. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely like a kind of, I'm not a double-edged sword, but yeah, in a way, i and especially with me I can be pretty like hard on myself. So, you know, if I'm starting to feel like mentally like that, and i just start judging myself and like, well, you're being mentally weak. yeah So it becomes like this whole internal internal battle.
00:14:28
Speaker
I'm like, am I even, you know, should I even be doing this? Like it just becomes this whole deeper thing that it doesn't need to be. Um, so it's like getting in my own head. So like, at least if the body kind of like says it's enough, you can just be like, that's enough. But if I'm like, oh, I can still run. I can still do this and that, like you've just been weak if you start to, um, slow down on it a bit. So it's, you've kind of got to make the decision yourself to slow down rather than the body telling you to, which can be hard.
00:15:00
Speaker
ah I found this part about you quite interesting and again, listen to podcasts you did recently. You say that you're like a really optimistic guy. You have a really optimistic viewpoint, but then clearly like we all have these really strong internal critics that can often, sometimes they paralyze us. Sometimes they just beat us up.
00:15:15
Speaker
And it sounds like you've got this like very positive, optimistic side, but then you've got this critic there. That's like telling you that you're not good enough. You're you're too weak. And how, how do you find those two kind of compete, especially during a a race for you? Yeah.
00:15:29
Speaker
Um, Yeah, to ah definitely ah the way I look at it is I have this, The optimistic, which by the way, I'm not religious, but it kind of to me is a bit religious and maybe some of the like symbolic things that i use might like help me get my point across. But the way i look at it is it's kind of, you've got this like optimistic thing that you know, you know everything. If you, whether it's during a race, whatever it is, if you do your best,
00:16:03
Speaker
and you're truthful, um, everything will work out. Like no matter what things will work out. I just have that trust. And I think with yeah religion, i think a lot of people that could be like God to them, but then along the way you're going to have men, which is in this religion, it could be like the devil or the, whatever it is. do You have these, can be like but like trying to get you to give up, um, these things that just happen, you know, when you're doing an ultra, there's always things that would go wrong.
00:16:32
Speaker
that can pull you to try and stop that to try and, you know, the little voices that come in your head. um I kind of look at it like the devil and the staying on the right path is kind of acknowledging it, that it's there. And like, that's part of you and it's part of the race, but believing that as long as you just keep doing your best and you ah just pretty much just doing your best, it will work out so that it's just kind of ignoring.
00:16:57
Speaker
kind of having that awareness just ignore those those things that pop up. um That's kind of how I view it during a race and then be a metaphor for life as well.
00:17:08
Speaker
Definitely. and I like it when you saying Buffalo was the probably and like objectively looking from the outside in it, Buffalo would definitely stand out to me as your as your best race when you're put putting that all together.
00:17:21
Speaker
Did you find that you had less of that internal kind of battle on that race? Yeah. Yeah. I think that lot of that was expectation um going in. I think like, as I said, like seeing those guys, the the runners that were on that list, i was like,
00:17:39
Speaker
They're better runners than me. They're faster. They can all do this race faster than I can. That's just facts. Um, uh, but so when, you know, their race started to go wrong, which is what happens in ultras, there's like the best runners, at least one or two of them, usually something happens.
00:17:55
Speaker
Um, you know, when, so when they start to kind of fall off a bit or something happens, it's all just like, a surprise, and ah which is a optimistic surprise. Like a pi it sucks for them and ah you know they're awesome guys. I don't want to say like a positive thing, but for me, he's racing you know it is it's a race. So um it's a you know a positive thing for me. Whereas if I was expecting to be top three or first or second, and then one of them passes me or something, that's going to be a negative experience. So how that affects the mindset going in is huge.
00:18:30
Speaker
going in with the mindset, acknowledging the fact that on paper, you're you're right, like you would not have been put as the top three going in. However, I think, thinking back to the previous show Brodie and I did, i I think pretty sure we both put you in the top three because we know that you're able to execute those
Improving Physical Efficiency
00:18:48
Speaker
races. Like you look back at your,
00:18:50
Speaker
your history from 2019 to now and you you've done a lot which is all practice for turning up hopefully healthy hopefully mentally ready but then being able to do the things on the day to get you to the finish line as fast as you can do you feel like the all that practice has kind of given you the confidence that okay regardless what happens in front of me i can still get this done properly yeah i think at the maybe the way i look at it is like kind of consistency and i think um I think I can have, i think compared to maybe a lot of other owners, I can have an a to like a B plus race, like 90% of the time, you know, so a good race, 90, 90% of the time.
00:19:32
Speaker
Um, but I might not have the ability to get that a plus, you know, we, you know, this absolute freak runners are getting amazing times. Um, so, you know, depending on, on the external factors of, again, the other runners and stuff,
00:19:47
Speaker
you know, they might be able to pull up an a plus race, but they can't do that a hundred percent of the time. And sometimes they, they, they have an a plus race and then maybe a C race. And, you know, if i'm maintaining ah an a to B plus, then some races when they're having a C race or, ah you know, C plus race, I can end up, end up beating them. So I think from my experience and kind of being consistency, I can have a ah baseline, which, um, to a ah pretty good standard.
00:20:15
Speaker
Hmm. What do you put that ability to get that 90% good race down to? Is it just experience for you? Yeah, I think it's just doing.
00:20:26
Speaker
It's experience in doing. like And it's even the training. I'm not recommending this, but um ah train I train every day. And it's not doesn't it's not just running, it whether it's weights. I don't run every day, but running or swimming. And I think I can, like besides when I got Portmary Deema in the pool, and I don't think I've had a...
00:20:46
Speaker
Um, a day off for, I can't even remember, like maybe a decade, like of just training. So for me, it's, it's a lost lifestyle. Um, it's just part of me. It's like, you know, just like brushing my teeth. So like I could run it if I wanted to, I could run a decent hundred mile tomorrow, even though I have like trained today, um, or, you know, 80 K or whatever, whatever distance, just because I'm just, the body's just used to it from when you do it that often all the time, it's just.
00:21:14
Speaker
yeah so consistency the consistency I think is what it is what do you think you'd have to do differently to have that like freak level performance on the on the day no I'm not thinking about like training differently just like how you have to approach it ah I think well to be honest I mean for me Buffalo was I don't know what I really could have done on the day to like I actually tapered properly I stuck to the, you know, about a hundred grams of carbs or so every hour.
00:21:49
Speaker
um like everything did exactly everything that to the best of my knowledge, um, and with coach Steve as coach and Calvin, which helps with my nutrition from NG one, um, as much as I'm aware of, and they're kind there aware of on the day.
Impact of Structured Coaching
00:22:06
Speaker
there's not much more that really i could do to get an a plus, um, race. I think there's plenty other things which I'm working on now outside of race day that are weaknesses of mine that I'm learning.
00:22:19
Speaker
Um, that can hopefully help but um yeah you you had it yeah yeah yeah because like I know that your goal was 12.30 that was like the A goal and you ran sorry 11.30 and you ran 11.07 and yeah aside from Michael Donston and Esther Shillag who's like that performance is the top ranked intra female performance of the year so far like you that we you you you were there like your performance got you to there what you just said about the things that you're doing now to sort of be able to level yourself up what what do they look like yeah so that they're kind of i mean i'm hoping they work um but um so i've been working a bit with like a physio and stuff because i've always had some hip kind of niggles and stuff which has stopped me from being able to like um like if i do like a fast track session i can't do too many of them before my hips just have some like hip issues
00:23:13
Speaker
Um, and it's the same with like, I've always wanted to do like, I try to do a fast road marathon, but my like biomechanics, but before I get back to 30 K I just start getting really stiff and my legs just, yeah, they're, they're just sore and not, not a good soreness, not like a fatigue type of thing.
00:23:32
Speaker
Um, so I've been seeing the physio and stuff ah recently, and there's some kind of some theories kind of he had might have, whereas um i've been using like all my big big muscles um which makes sense when i go to gym i'm going like really hard when i'm running i'm going hard and not not focusing on like the deeper smaller muscles which require just like you know you're not trying to get you're not trying to go heavy or you're not trying to get like a certain amount of reps it's just like the it's like dancing you know like it's
00:24:05
Speaker
It's more like, so there's like just small things, which I absolutely suck at, which you're a little stabilizer. Like literally just like one of them is, and which has actually been really helpful is just lying my back on, on a foam roller and just the legs in the air and just moving well one leg in the air, one leg on the ground, hands off the ground and just bringing that towards my chest and back.
00:24:28
Speaker
And just think like, so it's almost, and trying to maintain your balance. um I'm just like useless at it. Interesting. And just things like that deep, which I think it feels like it's been been working.
00:24:40
Speaker
And it also makes sense that I haven't used them because just kind of the personality have and how I train. Yeah, that that's good. That would be interesting. It's definitely those those like more intrinsic muscles, they take a lot more finessing and they suck to train. Yeah, they suck.
00:24:59
Speaker
yeah yeah they so do so
Evolution as a Competitive Runner
00:25:01
Speaker
Oh, okay. that's That's exciting. And i saw as well, like you said you set a new 5K PB. the You've been with Steve now since June last year. Is that right? Yeah, officially. He was like a mentor for many, many years before that and a mate and then like proper coaching last year.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, got him on for getting ready for Surfcoast. Okay. What did your training look like before working with Steve? Yeah. um It was kind of like whatever I felt like on the day when I wanted to train. So, i mean, um and i it wasn't just running, you know, it can be sweet. And then if, you know, mates wanted me to do something, I'd run with them more.
00:25:44
Speaker
So I would say like, it would be hard to even give an average amount of Ks when I was running or things like that. But it was always like I'll train two to three times a day whether not,
00:25:57
Speaker
it would sometimes be like two swims and weights or running in weights or something like that. But I never did besides doing like an ultra for fun or something, like which I do pretty regularly.
00:26:13
Speaker
i wouldn't do any like long run. So like 20 to 30 K runs, like I wouldn't just wouldn't, I'd be like, why would I do 20 to 30? I might as well just do 50 or 60 or something. Um, so many of the time I was just like, oh I just go for a 10, 15 K run.
00:26:28
Speaker
Um, the trails is like, it's only like to me at my closest place to get to a trail is probably like 20 minutes away at office seat. But even then I was like, oh, I'd prefer just to run from home and just run around. So it was just.
00:26:41
Speaker
Yeah, nothing really. yeah Yeah, just, yeah. Yeah, so no no structure, no kind of progression towards, it's just what you felt like doing, essentially.
00:26:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and so going from that to then having a coach, being on a program, having structure, learning that you have, like the the exciting thing about that is, Steve, and you can probably realize there will be a load of gaps in your training that you can exploit to get better.
00:27:10
Speaker
So how was that process transitioning onto working with a coach? Yeah, um it was really humbling actually, because I had to be, you have, you know, even Steve, like everyone kind of had the, you know,
00:27:24
Speaker
I've done pretty well at ultras and stuff before, and I've done well at races. And then, um, now, so you know, you're expected to be decent at something and now your body's struggling to maintain a, like, you know, 90 to 80 K week when you've been running 200 miles.
00:27:43
Speaker
um and cause you know, you're doing like a track session and then a hill session and your body's just struggling to cope. Cause it's not used to the, you know, intense, sessions be like I've been doing ultras now for like five years like the body should be holding up but you're like when you actually think about it you're like I actually haven't really given probably the sport the respect like it deserves like it to be to to build up those skills you know to get a fast 5k or ten k like people were spending decades of proper structured running training to get there it was you know and still is like I'm still young compared to
00:28:22
Speaker
compared to a runner that's, I know a runner that's worked at getting their 5k to under 15 minutes. Um, it's, they're, a you know, much more experienced runner than I've been, even knowing I've done 200 miles and stuff like that.
00:28:37
Speaker
Like that's actually more impressive. So it's, um, yeah. And just give me, open up my mind up to like, you know, just, just cause you're running ultras and you can push through that mentally. It doesn't, it doesn't mean, you know, you're there.
00:28:51
Speaker
yeah You know, the shit, you know, it's like, yeah there's other aspects of running, like get over yourself.
Valuing Personal Growth Over Rankings
00:28:56
Speaker
um So it's been really good in that way. When we were doing the preview for Buffalo, i was looking at your Warburton Trail Fest, the Donna Double Time, and it was under under two hours, which I can't remember the position it gave you, but the time surprised me.
00:29:09
Speaker
i didn't expect you to be that quick over that kind of course. And that's when you clearly could see, like okay, Tom's changed. He's no longer just the the dude that can go out and not stop. He's now that same guy that's gotten faster.
00:29:21
Speaker
And that's a very dangerous mix. Do you do you feel different now as a runner? Yeah, no, definitely. And that I really, really, I raced before you, before Buffett definitely, um, show me that like it, it, yeah, it's, it's funny. Cause I actually kind of go to warwin we war with myself a little bit about it because before that I just saw myself as that runner, just, you know, just like, I kind of like, Oh, I just, I just, I'm not a great runner, but I just, it's all just hard and it's all just mental. I'm not like one of these elite runners that, you know,
00:29:54
Speaker
everything needs to be perfect and all this type of thing. um But um to get like the performances that they get, they need to kind of be more particular.
00:30:05
Speaker
And I found myself like, oh, I'm actually becoming a bit bit more like that other runner that, you know, which isn't fair, but like there'd be part of my my brain that would kind of like judge that. person for being so particular like oh you don't need to be so a particular or whatever ah but i like i started to become more like that because you have to to to get to get faster so i kind of found myself like crossing over so i felt good i'm like oh i'm getting faster but the same time i'd like internally i'd like oh no you're like becoming um you know you think you're too good and like it's just anyway like a whole kind of like internal um battle but um
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah, it definitely feels good to be able to hit some of, or just like, you know, with Donna Double. I to it felt good, but felt weird when I started off that race and I could see someone that I really respect, like Nathan Pierce. And I'm like, I shouldn't be running near Nathan Pierce. This guy is way too quick for me. What am I doing? Like, am I doing something wrong? I'm like, no, I'm running my race. Yeah.
00:31:10
Speaker
like you know like maybe i can finish within five minutes of this person you know so yeah yeah it's it's an it's i'm constantly learning from it that's for sure i think it's it's great and it comes back to like running to a degree is just running and that you have to be a good runner to be a good runner but that's so if you want to be like if you want to embrace that competitive potential elite side of it do you started to shift in the mindset and have a bit more belief in that you could be that person or at least you can strive towards that uh honestly i don't actually no I actually don't think I I don't think I just I don't think I I yeah I'd say it's 100% true I don't
00:31:57
Speaker
I just don't think I have the ability to be top top runner, um, at least for the, even for worlds, even for 80 K I think maybe if I decided to go into 200 miles, um, but even that might change in a decade, like how quick people are getting, but, um, you know, it's something like a 200 mile, but I just, um, just like,
00:32:24
Speaker
even just the shape of my hips. I'm just like, not, uh, I just, not I'm not, a I'm just not a quick runner. Um, no matter how hard I try and make it happen, it just, and again, it could just be lack of experience and I just got to be more patient and I can, but I just, I just couldn't see myself again, like getting a 14, 15 minute, um, 5k, which, you know, if you want to do well, at least you want to at least get close to that.
00:32:51
Speaker
If you want to do, you know, be a top runner for Worlds or something like that, even for the 80K. So, um yeah. So I still don't believe it, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to try. Yeah.
00:33:04
Speaker
yeah Okay. So it's not, it's not that you're, so you're kind of completely writing off, like it's not worth trying because I don't feel like i can ever get there. It's a more of a ah reality of, I don't feel like I can, but I'm just going to see how good I can get regardless.
00:33:19
Speaker
Yeah, it is what it is. And like, if i If I try and be, trying if it if it's a decade of trying to be number one and I spend, you know, like 10 years trying to do it, then I've just got like an awesome 10 years of trying to do it.
Motivation to Represent
00:33:33
Speaker
Like for, you know, the goal at the end is it's cool, but the the feeling you have when you're chasing that goal is to me were like the the best part. Like that's all that's where your days and months are passing. It's not like the actual one day of the event. Yeah. so Again, it kind of goes back to the the purpose where having that whole journey that it's pushing me on is what I love. So why not try?
00:34:02
Speaker
When you think then to getting onto the Worlds team and and going to that sort of event, what motivates you to to really want to strive to that and to apply and and be there? It's definitely, um, there's, it's definitely, so as a kid, like sports was always like a big thing for me.
00:34:22
Speaker
Um, and just like grandma's piece of kids, it was been, and I was always like, I was a swimmer back then and I could never get on. was, was, you know, i was squat swimming and swimming plenty of times a week, but no matter how hard I tried and same with footy, no matter how hard I tried, I could never you know i get on the state team.
00:34:42
Speaker
um you know, I could never with footy, you can never be like one of the top players. um I felt like I put in just as much work as everyone else did, but could never get there. But thought it'd be just, I valued making it in sports such a big thing. And I guess I never really grew out of that.
00:35:00
Speaker
So now I found a sport and again, since it is early a day, so I do recognize that it's an early sport, which probably makes it easier for me to get on. um But it's a sport that,
00:35:13
Speaker
uh, I'm able to represent the country and able to do at a high level. And so I'm kind of, it's always something that I've wanted to do in some aspect. And I kind of been lucky enough that it's a sport that I've also enjoy, like, you know, um, in the end there too. So, um, being able to, yeah, represent the country, um, in, um,
00:35:39
Speaker
you can definitely argue with UTMB and stuff, but what's the part, what they're trying to get to be the the biggest event ah in, in trial ultra running. um Yeah. It's definitely early days at the moment, but um just yet to be able to say myself that I was on the team once is fine. But yeah, now three times, it's just, yeah. Something I can always be like, Oh, I tried and i I was able to do that.
00:36:04
Speaker
I agree with you in what you're saying in the fact that and this takes absolutely nothing away from you or anybody else that got in the team but getting on the team in 2025 in my view is a remarkably greater achievement than getting on the team in say 2022 or for 2023 like the the level of Australian trail running has dramatically stepped up over the last two years the attention that the world trail champs is getting internationally has massively stepped up and so more people care more people are interested more people are applying we get people coming to the sport from triathlon or from the roads that are making it so much harder to compete for those teams yet you still got that spot like you still proven that you are able and willing and have the capacity to get there does it feel different getting onto this team compared to the other teams
00:36:57
Speaker
Yeah, h each year, as you just said, as the sport's getting bigger and bigger, each year it's, it's it's a to me, a bigger surprise and a more of a, like, course, a celebration that you were able to do it.
00:37:12
Speaker
And it'll be the same in 2027 if you're able to get on the team then. It's just going to get harder and harder each time to get on the team. And um so, yeah, like this year definitely – like I was, I was seriously generally shocked and I still, there's certain people that I know applied that didn't get on, um, that I kind questioned sometimes and things like that. So I'm like, yeah, definitely super shocked. And it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't take it away from,
00:37:44
Speaker
you know, uh, you know, to the other, other teams either, you know it's the same, like the Olympic gold medalist back in 1948, whatever year for the marathon, they won that gold medal in that year.
00:37:56
Speaker
And sure. yeah That's it wouldn't even might not touch now, but that doesn't take away from that at the time. And actually that you can argue that merit marathon runner back then was nearly more important because they've had to if it wasn't for them the sport might not be building like it's building there needs to be people to to to apply for the teams and to get on and being self-funded until it's not exactly easy on that aspect either so no um getting on the teams back then as well as just yeah maybe not as hard but um definitely just more important if not than as important
00:38:35
Speaker
but We know the selectors, one of the what the things that would weight in your favor is the fact that you have now experienced two world championship teams already.
Personal Growth Through Achievements
00:38:44
Speaker
You've had to go race internationally, go through the emotions, wear that chip, wear that weight of representing Australia.
00:38:52
Speaker
Having had those two experiences in your backpack as such of experiences, how does it how does it change what how you approach this one or or does it at all?
00:39:04
Speaker
Uh, no, it's, it definitely, it definitely helps cause you've dealt with the nerves that you kind of get more at that higher level. So it just definitely helps on that level. But, um, to me, I try my best to kind of respect, even if it's just a local, a local thing,
00:39:24
Speaker
I've just got to give it everything like I can for what I'm trying to do each race. So whether there's the best in the world thereof there, or if there's just me and a couple others, um, it's important that I know like within myself that I've done my best for whatever purpose of that race was, which for worlds is to just try and get as fast as you can. I'm in place as best as you can. so Um, yeah, for me personally, think because one of my motivations are really internal, it doesn't make a huge, um, a huge difference, but it definitely helps.
00:40:01
Speaker
I respect that that answer. it's it would be, i can imagine it would be very tricky to keep that internal focus about just doing the best that you can when you are on the world stage.
00:40:12
Speaker
But the way that you do things clearly works for you. So you don't want to change them, but it would be it'd be hard hard to do that. um Do you feel like there is more of a draw to worry about pushing yourself harder to get a faster time, to get a faster place or better place for the team?
00:40:31
Speaker
Yeah, oh whether this is a good thing or not, ah for me, it is such like... I guess it may help where like where I come from is I could... Let's say if I came second, if I came second this year and i part of me knew that I didn't give it everything, I would be less happy than if I came last. But no, I gave absolutely everything in and that race. So to me, it's like...
00:41:00
Speaker
you know, if, if, if people, if, if people wanted to judge because I didn't do well in the race or whatever reason, like, but I knew I gave it everything, then it's just kind of like, screw you. Or like, you know, it's, if I, to me, like, you know, if, if someone, if I, yeah, if, if it's just, I can't really control like who rocks up, like I can't control how fast others go.
00:41:27
Speaker
um I can only do my best. So it to me, like i doesn't really matter on the actual results at at the end of the day, like for me, um the results are always just like bonus.
00:41:42
Speaker
Listening to you talk there, like you've clearly got an experienced head on your shoulders for 26 years old. Like yeah yeah and you've been in the sport for a long time. I think it's important to recognize that.
00:41:55
Speaker
When you think back to the version of you that came into the sport in 2019 that signs up to Surf Coast Century a month before it's happening, how how much has the way that you viewed yourself within running and as a person changed throughout that whole process to get to the point where you're able to now go, as long as I go there and give my best, I don't care if it's first or 50th because I still gave my best.
00:42:19
Speaker
Yeah, honestly, that that part is the part that hasn't changed. like to ah Since then, I've gained a lot of um confidence because I've shown myself kind of what I'm capable of.
00:42:33
Speaker
like and I've learned what I'm able to do and in each event, backing races up and then doing, you know you do use the external things like placings as a way to figure out how you're going. So you definitely gain some confidence and things like from that. But to me, like the reason why i was a case hanging out for the surf coast a month before, even though I had never run a marathon before was because it was just, there's this challenge and I want to do the best I can at it.
00:42:59
Speaker
And, um, it is what it is. Like, i just, as long as I know I'm doing my best, um, back then it was, I guess I did have a lot on just like being able to finish and I would have really struggled to not finish mentally, even if I knew it, which contradicts what I'm saying. Cause even if I knew I did my best, finish um, I wouldn't have been, like happy with that.
00:43:23
Speaker
So, yeah um, so there's definitely some contradictions there when I think about that, but it was, it has wasn't always has been ah, this challenge that just want to do my best for it and be able to do it.
00:43:36
Speaker
Um, That's why it's it's actually funny. You asked my question because the more I think about that, actually think maybe the first, like I've just completely changed my frame of thinking a couple seconds.
00:43:48
Speaker
Um, in those first couple of years, actually, i think weren't so they were internal, but not in that aspect. I think they, I had a lot of like self-worth. like issues more than not being enough.
00:44:01
Speaker
And so yeah then, and my, instead of the focus being a placing, then it was a finish because ultra marathons were new. And I was like, just being to finish one of these things, like I can be a decent person if I can finish.
00:44:13
Speaker
um So that, which is an external thing. so But after finishing so many um and being able to do it, it's just kind of like, no, it doesn't make you special for me to finish this. Everyone,
00:44:26
Speaker
everyone's special in their own way, kind of get over yourself a bit. um And now once, you know, i've kind of had that self-confidence now where it's not so much of an issue and self-worth that now it is just been able to just do my best. So I guess there is a definitely a change in that mindset, but just not in,
00:44:47
Speaker
the placings and stuff hasn't been super important, I suppose. You've been incredibly open in the past about your challenges growing up. You were hospitalized with anorexia, 14, 15, depression, you just spoke there about having self-worth, self-confidence challenges when you were younger, but that's been able to evolve now, aside from just the fact that you've won races and therefore confidence as a runner will have improved.
00:45:13
Speaker
How do you think you've been able to get past those challenges? Yeah, i think so I think a lot of those you know ultramarathons or challenges of the mountaineering and and stuff like that um kind of got me again.
Self-Discovery and Character Maintenance
00:45:30
Speaker
There were things that I saw as that people that were good enough would be able to do. And so when I was able to do them, but I still didn't think that I was...
00:45:43
Speaker
ah a good person or worthy enough or didn't really get my self-esteem. It really made me actually have to think and try and like put, put things together as like, Oh no, like there's a, you've actually got an issue that needs addressing. Cause you've told yourself, like you looked at these other people that were able to do it and you look up to them. And so why you should, in theory, you should be looking up to yourself now, but that didn't change that, that feeling at all. So it kind of made me have to kind of like look deeper and and think deeper and, and which is, is, is like a constant, constant journey. Like there isn't just a solution, but it put me on ah on a, it put me on a path, um, which I think with a lot of those issues is you just need a, a path and it put me where you are along the way, uh, interacting with other people,
00:46:42
Speaker
um not isolating yourself, getting out of your own head whilst achieving things. Um, and, and just kind of getting out there and I'm on that path.
00:46:54
Speaker
Um, was just a path that, you ultra marathons was the journey that motivated me, but it could legit be for many people it's work or whatever, you know, it could be any sort of path. It doesn't have to be running, but it, it running and ultra running was a thing that put me on that path that,
00:47:12
Speaker
after years and of just kind of self-reflection and and things like that, that helped with that self-worth, um, and confidence. Yeah. So, and, and the, and the anorexia thing was,
00:47:24
Speaker
in the past, what again, like many help mental health things came from self worth issues and and things like that. Yeah, it's it's an interesting one. and I think so many people do struggle with self worth, self confidence, just the the fact that we're, yeah, we are enough of as as just who we are in that moment and not on that day. Like there's no there's no challenge you can take on that's going to change that at the finish. You don't you know become a world champion and suddenly think, oh, I'm an amazing person now for life.
00:47:53
Speaker
it's yeah short short-lived the thing I think you said there about there are multiple ways to to go on that journey but running especially the running that you took on straight away going 100k 100
00:48:10
Speaker
down under Everest 200 milers that it that really like exposes you yeah it makes you very very vulnerable out there when you're going for 100 plus hours in some some cases each time you take on one of those challenges and those events do you tend to come away having learned something about yourself that you didn't know before You do have like, I don't, it's not like afterwards you're like, I had all these big epiphanies or this and that, you know, but I, but I do think subconsciously there's something going on where it is, um, kind of, yeah. Like changing your perspective on things.
00:48:49
Speaker
I, I, I've done like a bit of reflection on this and I think, you know, something that actually i didn't realize this, this did, really helped my self-esteem and stuff like that at the time.
00:49:01
Speaker
But after a few years have passed, I've realized it's really an important thing to me was, um you know, during races like down under where I'm in like a lot of pain and and really suffering. I've come to the A stations and there's still that part of me that made sure I was,
00:49:15
Speaker
thanking the crew, being kind, trying, know, putting my things aside and and still respecting others. And then after the race, subconsciously, i was really happy within myself because there's a part of me that knew that even when I'm still struggling, that I'm still a decent person to others. So it,
00:49:37
Speaker
I didn't realize i wasn't like the after the race and i'm like, oh I'm a really decent person because I said like, thank you. And didn't, you know, but I've like realized upon reflection, like, oh that's actually what i'm I'm really proud of. And it comes back to like the actual character of it and not.
00:49:52
Speaker
not that I won that race or that I was the only finisher of that race. Like that's just, that's cool. And my ego loves that, you know, sometimes, you know, sometimes when my, you know, like the emotions are high, I'm during a run and I'm listening to some, some like hip hop music that's revving me up. And I'm like, yeah, you did
Mental Battles and Personal Growth
00:50:10
Speaker
finish that. Like, you know when the ego's up, but, but at the end of the day, that's not, not what, yeah, really like helped with that, that self-esteem thing.
00:50:19
Speaker
It's knowing that, like my subconscious knows within myself that at least so far when I've come up against certain things that, um, I've reacted in a ah good way.
00:50:30
Speaker
Um, cause I also know there's other challenges in life where I wasn't happy with within myself and I didn't react well. And I'm like, not during races, but just in other things, I'm like, it's done the opposite where it's like hurt yourself. I see me like, Oh, I need to, yeah you know, you face those consequences.
00:50:48
Speaker
It's a good point and it makes me think that you never really know how you're going to react in those sort of situations until you are like stripped bare and you are and yeah you are exhausted, you're emotionally drained and you could turn into that impatient, I probably can't use this word,
00:51:08
Speaker
person yeah or you could do like you said you could you can just be like a genuinely nice human being and at the like and at the end of it all you can reflect and go huh when like everything is taken away from me that's the person that i actually am and that's i don't know hearing you talk it makes me smile a lot because i'm like that's really cool like being reflect and go like oh yeah i'm a really good person like i'm a nice person i say say thank you when i'm in like dying essentially yeah Yeah, I think that's really, it's it's things like that that I think have really, like, yeah, helped with the self-esteem sort of thing along way. Yeah.
00:51:45
Speaker
Good, good. And obviously, see we are here. I'm going kind of pivot us now to talk about the the race a bit more that's that's coming up. But when you are lining up for these big races, regardless of what the, like,
00:52:02
Speaker
outcome that you want to get out of it do you find it kind of is it easier now to believe in yourself with that higher level of confidence of self-esteem um yeah like i i definitely i've always and again it kind of goes back to like the motivations and like i might not believe myself that i'm going to finish top half or you know oh i do actually have the confidence that i'll both to finish top half this year but um like it it doesn't help with without my performance, but it nice it helps that I know that I'm going to get there and I'm going to give it everything and I'm going to be happy with it because I can ah can actually control
00:52:46
Speaker
like I, no matter what happens, I can like, after the race is done, can lie down on my pillow and be like, I did my best. So knowing, knowing that no matter what happens, that's out of my control, like the bit that I can't control, I'm always in control. And that's all that, all the matters. The only challenges are the ones that come up, which again, is like that devil in your ear. There's like, Oh, it's okay. You can,
00:53:11
Speaker
slow down a bit here, or you can like, don't worry about eating that thing there or like all those little type of, you know, i just give up as long as i don't give into those things, which is like the hardest part of it in my mind.
Training for Technical Races
00:53:23
Speaker
Um, um but still is in my control. um Yeah, I actually kind of forgot the question you asked. No, that's all good. you You don't need to remember it. I often like, if that happens, it's good because you've just kind of gone on, you've gone for it in whatever way. so It felt natural, but it is, the the more of these I do, the more I realize that every person, whether they're like the best in Australia, they're coming up through the ranks.
00:53:48
Speaker
Everyone has these battles mid race or in training of like, I can't do this. I'm just quit. It's easier to stop. But it really is like being able to create your own way to manage those and to keep going as long as it is healthy. And I probably would recommend that most people don't give themselves a pulmonary edema trying to complete a race. But it it it is like it's a very it's a very consistent thing that you do have to just get there and that's personally why i love running because it's it shows you who you are it shows you what you're capable of and it helps you then navigate the rest of life because it suddenly seems a lot easier when that voice picks up to quieten it down yeah definitely you're training you're training how to control that voice during your training like that's yeah it's it's another facet of training that you're probably not thinking about but
00:54:37
Speaker
that's that's what you That's a part of your brain that you're still training, which as you said, like you can apply like everything in life. So I'm totally with you on that one. It's a conversation I had quite recently with someone I coached that training is like we look at just from the physical side of things of how you prepare to be fit enough to take on whatever you you're trying to do. But...
00:54:56
Speaker
it's yes obviously it is that but also there's so much that is psychological about learning about yourself and how you have to manage those thoughts and feelings and how you're going to prepare for that race and how to manage the anxiety that comes up and get excited rather than nervous and it's uh yeah running's a cool sport for that i think let's talk, talk then, sorry, a bit more about the actual race itself, because and the stats for your run, 81 K just over 5,000 meters of climbing from what I hear. It's well, it's Europe. It's all, it's all steep.
00:55:32
Speaker
um Training for that where you live in Melbourne is not exactly easy. And we were speaking just before off air your run this morning, which looked like, how many repeats did you do Arthur's seat this morning?
00:55:46
Speaker
Uh, 13. that So training is not easy yeah from the sense of it's hard to replicate that terrain, but also it's not easy from the sense that you have to go to 13 repeats of a hill, which is a lot harder mentally than going and doing three big climbs in the, the Alps.
00:56:04
Speaker
How, how do you find training and preparing for this style of race? Yeah. I actually, I, I like it because it's more to my strengths than my weaknesses.
00:56:17
Speaker
Um, I only cause like, as I said, as I say before running, you know, if you, you know, if you're running surf courses, you're doing tempo and fast stuff, which is not a strength of mine. That's a weakness. So naturally i prefer to, to be like, oh, I get to hike this thing. Cause I'm going to be doing 13 reps. Yeah. Um,
00:56:37
Speaker
But with that being said, like you, it's definitely, you start to get like fed up with doing the same hill over and over again, every week, week after week.
00:56:48
Speaker
Or if you want to drive to somewhere that's, if I want to go to Dandenong's or even, you even further bright, like it's ah a, it's a 40 minute drive to Dandenong's or 50 minute drive there and back. And then your Sundays, you know, you're working or other days. So you kind of want somewhat of a rest day. So you might sleep into like seven and then you're,
00:57:06
Speaker
go to drive 40 minutes and then do a five hour run and then drive back. Then your whole quote unquote rest day for the week is gone because yeah you're, you're like just because you're running and driving. Yeah.
00:57:18
Speaker
yeah It's all training. Like that, that, that's probably i honestly the hardest bit rather than like the actual training, training itself.
Motivation Challenges Post-Buffalo
00:57:26
Speaker
um The, the, the repeats, it can suck, but then you just kind of, you kind of just, you just suppress it during the time. You just like,
00:57:35
Speaker
suppress it and then it'll pop up and you'll hate your life for a second. Then you just put your head back down. about it You've known that you've been on the team for a while now. Like the, yeah everyone on it has has known obviously for longer than the the general population has.
00:57:51
Speaker
Given that you were coming out of Buffalo, feeling burnt out, you had a few niggles, you needed sort of reset. How have you been since then getting back into training, knowing that you've got this like big goal and in September?
00:58:05
Speaker
Yeah, to be actually 100% on with you, I don't know if I ever like fully, even fully mentally recovered. um Like for like, I ah don't have ah huge amount of, like it makes me like kind of sad saying it, but I worked so hard to get on the team for a year and a half, ah be a year, two years, um doing the races, training and all that type of thing to get the resume.
00:58:31
Speaker
And then I've now got to the point where I'm not motivated all, to be honest. i've got I'm lucky I've got Steve's structure coach. I'm just like, just tell myself, like, you've worked so long to get there.
00:58:48
Speaker
just Just like, just shut up and just follow with this training plan. Exactly. And just, yeah, just follow it. But I'm not actually... Um, like I'm, I'm not super motivated to be honest. So, um, after, yeah, so I've just been, as I said, just, I know I'm knowing I'm doing my best to follow that, that plan and with each session I'm doing my best, but the actual excitement isn't actually there for the race.
00:59:16
Speaker
Um, which is a bit of a bummer, but like it is what it is. i think it's also just coincided with a a lot of other like life things that are going on, career things and stuff like that as well. So.
00:59:30
Speaker
can be easy to forget that we have like not paid to do this as much as you would love to, I'm sure is that there's a lot of added balls that you have to to juggle and manage whilst you are trying to commit.
00:59:42
Speaker
But how many how many hours of training do you do a week across everything? Everything about, I'd say averaging about 20. Yeah. So you're trying to do 20 hours of training, work, also be like a general person in society and a son. And like there's there's there's a lot going on there. So I can see it would be quite hard to not to be able to actually get excited because you are in the depth of it right now.
01:00:11
Speaker
Does it feel like it's improving at all or is it pretty similar to that post Buffalo feel? It's definitely better. It's better than it was because, um I'm at least like, I'll have like glimpses of like, oh, I'm actually looking forward to this run. Whereas, um you know, starting off, I was like, there was just nothing at all. Like it was no excitement for anything to do with it.
01:00:32
Speaker
um But at least now, ah like I still have like you know, at least like ah couple of times throughout the week, I'm like, oh, I am i am going to Spain. I am like ah get excited for a second. and And then I think like kind of life hits you again. Yeah.
01:00:45
Speaker
But, um, so, and I was definitely, as I'm, as I'm getting closer, um, I'm getting like definitely better than, than, than what it was. So I would say it's improving.
Training Dynamics with Partner
01:00:57
Speaker
Yeah. And then seeing, seeing me excited for it too. Like when you're around it is good too. Yeah, it's a good point, actually. as a As a dynamic, what's it like to be training with your girlfriend who's also on the world's team? She's made the the short short trail, 42K-ish.
01:01:17
Speaker
What's that like, being able to do that together? Training with me, i has like a as being partners, has its... like good and it's like negative things. Um, like obviously it's great having a training buddy and that's like motivating and you push each other and you have competitive, this, which like motivates you and and things like that, which is great.
01:01:37
Speaker
Um, even just like, you know, both having to get up early to do a run together, like that's so much easier than doing it by yourself. Um, and it's actually particular with me. I I'm a morning person, but I've been like, I like to like lie there for 10, 15 minutes.
01:01:53
Speaker
before getting up. So it's good. Like me is like, come on, get up. So it's good. Someone's kind of with my ass a bit. um But ah it also has its kind of trade-offs ah in the way that since we are both competitive and this like competitive that,
01:02:07
Speaker
It can cause some like some little fights and little frustrations um with each other. um Yeah, like so you know you' getting jealous of someone doing a run that the other one doesn't have or someone's training more that day than the other person. And since we're such both of us, ah maybe our egos can get too big at times. It feels like our ego gets a bit hurt if the other one does bit more that day than the other one and things like that.
01:02:33
Speaker
Yeah. Overall, guess it's ah definitely a net positive um that, yeah, cause a bit of fight sometimes. That's interesting. And I can definitely see that, like training with my wife, Siobhan, especially in the earlier days of doing it together.
01:02:47
Speaker
There are a few of those like butting head moments as such. But um I can imagine it's also, like said, very nice to have someone to share that, share that process with. And and even just the fact that you get to fly over there together, it has that like sense of routine that a lot of people won't get a chance to have. Yeah.
01:03:02
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. um yeah Also, this is really it's pretty exciting. Before I said I wasn't excited, but it's exciting to go out with someone. um you know Last time, like I kind of flew out by myself and all my traveling and stuff at Mountaineering, I've always been by myself. So it's nice to have um going out with your partner for the same event.
01:03:22
Speaker
When it was just me doing the race in Nepal, I felt a bit guilty that I felt like I was dragging me along when she wanted to do the race. And if I knew that if she had an event that I would kind of, although I'd really want it to do well, like they'd be part of me like, I wish I was doing it too. So it's really good going up together, both doing ah like each individual races and like sharing that excitement.
Adapting to Technical Race Focus
01:03:44
Speaker
And just coming back to your training for so the event, is there anything that you and Steve are doing differently compared to Buffalo that you're going to do for Kang Frank?
01:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, Buffalo and coming out of Surf Coast Century, we were doing a lot of more track stuff, um a lot more. The hills were more runnable, like the certain hills that I'd choose at Arthur Seat were more runnable.
01:04:09
Speaker
um you know, where you could do like a shuffle, you know, your tempo runs as well, like more ah uphills. And we're still doing a bit of that, but this time we're focusing a bit more on more technical, more steeper, bit more hiking. Um, and like the long run itself is longer, even knowing the race is about the same time, but just because of how technical it is,
01:04:33
Speaker
So we're focusing a bit more last time he was getting me away from doing how I felt. You have to ask Steve this, if this is what he is, the way he's doing it, but how I felt he was getting a bit more away from quantity and focusing more on quality.
01:04:48
Speaker
um Whereas this time it feels like we're doing a bit more load, a bit more quality, ah quantity and quality. and I feel like the quality might not be as much of ah of an emphasis for that process. be Which totally makes sense. Like you're training for a very different style of event this time. It's 20k less than a thousand meters more and very different terrain.
01:05:11
Speaker
Yeah. And very different. Yeah. Buffaloes, although it's steeper, like lots of elevation, and it's very runnable. A lot of those hills and all that type of thing. Whereas this is,
01:05:22
Speaker
you know if If it's anything like it was at Innsbruck anyway, you're not running. Well, unless you're an absolute freak maybe, but um i alright I won't be running a lot of those hills.
01:05:33
Speaker
Yeah. more specific. Do you prefer that? Like, are you looking forward to that change of training style? Yeah. Yeah. And it's actually lucky it's kind of fallen at it's how it's fallen has worked well for him at mentally too. Um, cause I would, I think right now I would do it if I had to, but doing a lot more track work and a lot more speed stuff, um, where I'm at with it at the moment, I'd really struggle i to to be doing that week after week. Whereas, um,
01:06:05
Speaker
not worrying so much about, um, you know, the pace that I'm doing and focusing more on, um, the, you know, elevation or all that, that type of thing.
01:06:17
Speaker
And the load is, uh, I'm enjoying more than, than I would be if I was doing more speed stuff. So yeah, I'm happy that it's, I'm actually pretty lucky it's turned out to be that way.
Community Support and Gratitude
01:06:30
Speaker
I'm glad to hear it, especially knowing that obviously you're going to want to mentally freshen up a bit. And hopefully that hopefully I think that excitement will come naturally as you get closer to the event and you start traveling and you kind of escape the depth of training and also winter, which is never the easiest time to be training for this kind of stuff. But I'm glad to hear that you're looking forward to it a bit with the training side of things.
01:06:50
Speaker
yeah yeah thank you Tom I think that is probably a really good place to finish us up for this thank you so much for coming on and good luck for the champs I said this to you when we caught up at Buffalo but I was definitely rooting for you to get on this team I felt like your your improvements as a runner in the last 12 months has been really clear to see and I'm really glad that you've been given the chance to kind of keep showing that you're you're still making these big steps steps forward despite ah very illustrious career already in the sport so good luck hope the training block goes well and we look forward to seeing how you go no thank you and i do i do appreciate that that feedback you gave me at buffalo and with that so it's good to see that other people think that many of the work that you've been putting in been paying off a bit so thanks for that
01:07:40
Speaker
There's a couple of people out there that that watch and pay attention to this kind of stuff. And I'm one of them. And it's been, it's been, it's been, been, been really, really good see. Cause as they said, did we talk about Steve putting in some, some quality into your training. We know that there is a lot of work just getting strong and aerobically fit.
01:07:57
Speaker
And once you start layering in everything else into there, there's, there's a lot more potential in you definitely. So I'm glad, glad we're starting to see that. Yeah. ah Thank you. Oh, cheers. Oh, and one thing before we have as well, I just wanted to quickly say, um I just, uh, it's always like with training, this is an individual sport. So it is, um, you know, a lot of it's about like what I do and what I do for training, but, um, like a lot of it, why I like being able to do at least the training and and the things at the moment is like the support that I've had from, we've talked about it, but Steve a lot, um, like Steve and Calvin from, and you want new sports nutrition? And recently with ultra, it's like a huge community around me and Peter, Peter from Peter, Bruce, um,
01:08:41
Speaker
Lots of people, big huge community, but I just, it's really important that I would generally wouldn't be ah back on the team again if it wasn't for that, that support. So, you know, I've had like a whole podcast talking about myself. So I think it's really important that I mentioned that they, you know, they've got me here as well. yeah.
01:09:00
Speaker
I'm going to quickly mention that. Sorry to mention it. Well said. You're right. It's an individual team. It's an individual sport, but there's always a team behind it. you might We don't see it, but I'm glad you ah took the opportunity to say something. So ah sounds like you've got a very very good one to kind of be in your corner.
01:09:15
Speaker
um she um Yeah. Good luck. And we'll catch up soon. Sounds good. Thank you for listening to that interview with Tom. i hope you really enjoyed it. If you are interested in knowing more about his background, we touched on it briefly, but he has previously done a podcast with the Cowbell podcast where he goes into his history through his teenage years.
01:09:36
Speaker
And it is a great example of someone who has been dealt a challenging card but come out the other side really strong. Hopefully you did enjoy the podcast and you enjoy everything else we put out there.
01:09:47
Speaker
If so, could you please give us five stars wherever you do listen to your podcast? It means a lot to us to know that you are enjoying it, but also it really does help other people find. And as we are doing this build towards the world challenge, we are trying to build a bit more of a hype and engagement around the team so that they know how much support they have back home.
01:10:07
Speaker
We'll catch you on the next one. Thanks much for listening.