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Episode 70: Chasing Seconds or Risking Health? Body Weight Cuts, Sierre Zinal & More
339 Plays5 days ago
This week, Brodie Nankervis and Jess Jason jump behind the mics as both gear up for the short trail race at the World Mountain and Trail Running Championships. We chat through our training weeks, the highs and lows, and how we’re fine-tuning things in the lead-up to race day.
We also share some big news for the region, the Asia Pacific Trail Running Championships are coming in 2026, and we couldn’t be more excited about what this means for the sport here in Australia and beyond.
We dive into a hot topic that’s been making headlines: cutting down body weight for performance. Off the back of the Tour de Femme winner revealing this as her key strategy, we weigh up the pros… and the many cons, from potential short-term gains to the long-term risks for health and performance.
Plus, we cover race action from the legendary Sierre Zinal and some exciting domestic results from across the country.
🎧 Tune in for training talk, race news, and an honest chat about one of the most controversial race strategies.
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Results
Sierre Zinal - https://datasport.com/live/ranking/?racenr=27138#2_66B6DA
Canberra Runners Winter Series Stromolo - https://canberrarunner.com.au/
North West Trail Running Series - https://events.barefootsport.co.nz/event/1150/results
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
Recommended
Transcript
Introductions and Locations
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 70 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is Brodie, one of your hosts, and this week I'm joined by Jess Jason down there in Canberra, I believe. Still there, Jess.
00:00:21
Speaker
Yeah, still in Canberra, hanging out until I can join you guys over in Europe. I'm just getting more and more FOMO by the day. Not long to go now.
00:00:32
Speaker
Yeah. Where are you at the
Weather and FOMO
00:00:34
Speaker
moment? I'm in the UK. um So I'm in Edinburgh. I was just ah just got back from like a 10 days, sort of like 11 days mini road trip around the highlands of Scotland.
00:00:47
Speaker
um And I think the weather was probably the same, if not worse than Canberra. So it hasn't been as good a weather this last week. I think we used up all our weather plans. in Norway, but hopefully we'll get some more nice days now.
Heat Adaptation Concerns
00:01:01
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's actually been nice in Canberra. It's like, I don't know, warming up a little bit. We're getting some days of 15 degrees, so toasty. But I'm actually doing getting a little bit concerned like as to like how cold adapted I am like because I'm going for yeah runs in the middle of the day at 15 degrees and I'm like, oh, it's hot.
00:01:24
Speaker
like yeah I'm going to struggle over in Europe when it's like 30 degrees. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we we'll get into your training in a little bit, but are you doing um ah you doing some heat training at the moment? Because you've got the sauna set up at home, is that right?
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just doing passive. um So, yeah, it'll be my first time kind of doing it consistently, it'll be interesting to see how I go. um I feel like I'm pretty quick to get adapted to the heat just because I, like, grew up in Perth.
00:01:57
Speaker
So hopefully, like, I don't know, the two weeks that I'm there before the race, um I'll get a little bit adapted to it. um Yeah, yeah. Nice.
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah. Nice, nice. Cool. All right, well, we'll chat about what we've been up to in the last week.
Episode Preview
00:02:16
Speaker
We've got some some news about the Asia-Pacific Trailering Champs for next year. ah We're going to talk a little bit about some of the...
00:02:25
Speaker
um some of it the chat that's been happening after the Tour de Femmes in terms of talking about losing weight for competition. And then we've got some results to to touch on at the end. So it should be a good episode. But maybe, Jess, you want to start with your training week? What have been up to?
Recovery Week Highlights
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah, so last week I was kind of on like a recovery week um from that little re relay race that I did ah last weekend. um So pretty much just jogged um pretty crazy up until Thursday. i did a bit of a like longer run, I think it was 75 minutes um through Black Mountain, which is slowly turning into one of my favourite runs of the week. It's just so nice.
00:03:09
Speaker
to get out in the middle of the day through the trails and I'm like slowly making my way around like the more single tracks and like not needing to have a map. So that's nice. I know where I'm going now. i don't get lost.
00:03:23
Speaker
um And there's some really fun little ones that I can like go into different reserves through. So yeah. yeah That's always fun. um And then i did a session on
Training Dynamics
00:03:35
Speaker
Saturday. So I've been kind of like switching week from week just so that I can like have a group to train with. So one week I'll do a Thursday tempo session and then the next week I'll do the Saturday session, which is heels at Stromlo.
00:03:54
Speaker
um So this is with Dick Telford's group. um And they have this like kind of staple session that they do in the winter out at Stromlo. So they actually go up and run um to the top of Mount Stromlo on the road as one rep. So it's like 3.5 K hill.
00:04:14
Speaker
um So that was pretty hard. And i think, yeah, they right ran it so fast. Like I was pretty shocked at how fast they were running it. I think I averaged like four, 10 pace or something like that. So i was pretty happy. um And yeah, and then once we'd done that, everyone was pretty cooked. But we finished off with um six by, no, sorry, four by 600 heels, which were like not very steep. They were kind of like started out with a flat road and then finished with like a little bit of a pinch. So they were like pretty fast.
00:04:51
Speaker
um And then i wanted to get a bit more like downhill stimulus because on my plan i had had more of like a trail specific session.
00:05:05
Speaker
um so I was like, oh, well, I've got the uphill stimulus. I'll just do like I'll just finish with one little like downhill rep. um So I did that and while the others just cooled down.
00:05:16
Speaker
um So yeah, that was a pretty decent session. I felt pretty good just like having had an easy week before that. um And then the next day i went out for like
Long Run and Recovery
00:05:28
Speaker
a shorter long run. I had 2.5 hours.
00:05:31
Speaker
um That sounded so robotic, two and a half hours. And I went to Mount Corrie um with Etienne, um which is a really nice loop. It's just like a fire road. It's a little bit rocky um and it's like a 9.5K climb to the top. um You get some nice views at the top and then you run down um And then we just sort of did another like out and back to add up the time. um But yeah, i was pretty happy with how I felt that day because I did gym as well on the Saturday. so
00:06:06
Speaker
session and gym into long run, I was like, oh man, this going be hard. But um I think just fueling um is helping a lot with that. Like I find I'm just still just so shocked with like how I'm recovering. Like it's just – a whole different ball game to what I'm used to. So that's really nice. And I feel really strong. And yeah, I think definitely like good signs for um worlds coming up. Like I feel pretty fit and strong.
00:06:34
Speaker
So super positive. Yeah, that's awesome.
Brodie's Birthday Run
00:06:37
Speaker
You got to like, what, of running on the weekend. So that's pretty solid. It's like almost half a mile.
00:06:45
Speaker
Yeah, and all of that is and it nearly adds up to the world's course. So that's pretty good. Get on over two days. i Yeah, I just need probably like 1,000 more metres or more, probably 1,500 metres more elevation gain. and there Yeah, that's the that's the gym session though.
00:07:02
Speaker
We'll count that as the gym session. How many step-ups did you do?
00:07:09
Speaker
Oh, that's solid. That's really good to see. um like especially off there off like your little effort um at the race. And then it looks like you're like pretty smart in the week, which is just good, and then and then got in a really solid weekend, which is cool. And I liked setting my athletes training like that as well. like After a race, like they still end up doing something decent on the weekend but have like a pretty chill week, don't feel like you need to rush back into a Tuesday or even a Thursday session. So I think, yeah, I really like the way that you did that.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I just felt that like, I probably could have done something on Thursday, but it would just like, it wasn't really necessary. um Like I felt like, yeah, it was more beneficial to wait, make sure that like I was going to be like out of the doms and then do something hard again. um Yeah, definitely.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I think you get a lot out of those sort of back to back days as well when you get like a fair bit of volume in when you're training for like a long, but still like quite a fast race, like, with the 45K is like it's long, but it's also so so not long trail. So it's like you still have to run.
00:08:17
Speaker
So it's good to do those like sort of two back to back days where you've done a fair bit of running. Yeah, I'm, like, very interested to see, like, yeah, how much running is involved in this course. Yeah, true. Well, yeah, usually a 45K race would have a lot of running. I think this one will have a lot of hiking, but um there will still be there will still be a bit of running in between that.
00:08:38
Speaker
Yeah, you'll still be, like, hiking, like, with a high heart rate, so. Yes, yeah. Nice, cool. And how long is it till you head across to Europe? you Because you were there, like, you're going to be there two, three weeks before?
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, I'll head over on the 4th of September. um Okay, so you've got another three weeks at home. Yeah. So, yeah. Nice. Getting excited. Cool, yeah, awesome. Yeah, nice one, good week.
00:09:07
Speaker
What have you been up to? How's your training going? Yeah, so this week was
Highland Games Participation
00:09:10
Speaker
was fun. Like I wasn't on last week, um but at the the end of last week, I I did, it was my birthday on the Sunday and I turned 31. So I was like, oh, I wanted to fit in like quite a long run, like try and see what i what my Achilles could sort of handle and what I was capable of. I'm obviously trying to build up to being able to run for five to six hours and without having one any issues. 31Ks for 31 years.
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah, so so I thought, you know what, let's let's try and hit that. um I was aiming for somewhere between, say, two and a half and three and a half hours, and I was hoping to get closer to sort of the three and a half. um And the loop I chose ended up being, I thought it would take me about three hours, but it ended up taking me three hours, 20. So it was, yeah, it was pretty good. i had a nice um mountain in the middle of it. Like, there's just like, yeah, up in the Scottish Highlands, some of the the mountains sort of just like pop up really steep, and they sort of,
00:10:09
Speaker
sometimes flatter around. um So as I did this mountain called Sulvan. um So it was about 10k out to the foot of it and then it was like 800 meters of climb in like 2k or 1.5k. It was just but stupidly steep up onto the ridgeline and then really steep back down the other side.
00:10:30
Speaker
and then I made it into a bit of a loop. um But on the white back ah way the way I chose to sort of head back to where I started, i you obviously can't tell when you're looking at maps on Strava and all trails and that, but it was just a bog. It was so muddy.
00:10:45
Speaker
So the second half of the run was quite tough because it was like really sloppy and muddy, um but it was but is good fun. and And I actually got through it really well. My body felt ah really, really good still at the end and felt like I could keep going. So um that was super positive. I was really happy with how that went. And and then my body sort of,
00:11:07
Speaker
Responded pretty well afterwards as well and I didn't sort of have much like when I pushed myself a little bit and and or add a new stimulus, my Achilles usually tells me about it a little bit like it's just part of the rehab.
00:11:19
Speaker
um But yeah, the next day it was actually feeling quite, quite good. So I was pretty happy with that. um But yeah, I had a day off running the next day. So that was Monday. um I've been trying to like fit in some saunering because again, I'm in some cooler places of the world and wanted to try and sort of maintain some heat stimulus or sort of gain some heat stimulus. So I've sort of been somewhat consistently trying to sauna while I've been in Europe. When I was in Scandinavia, it was quite easy because a lot of the places we're staying, we had a sauna.
00:11:52
Speaker
um In Scotland, I also wanted to go to the gym and so I found there was like a ah group of sort of leisure centres in the Highlands that you could sort of get a month membership for and a lot of them had like a pool and a lot of them had like a sauna. So that was quite handy. I was able to sort of fit in a few saunas. So I did a sauna on the Monday but no no running.
00:12:16
Speaker
um And then Tuesday, yeah just did an easy run. And then Wednesday was sort of the highlight of the week. um we had We were in Isle of Skye and we went to and the one the Isle of Skye Highland Games.
00:12:33
Speaker
So in this period of summer, I guess, must be mostly July and August, um all over Scotland, the little towns or regions will host like ah Highland games.
00:12:46
Speaker
um So if you've ever seen, i don't know if you' people would have seen like ah really strong Scottish men throwing heavy weights or logs and that sort of stuff. Sometimes it's in movies and stuff.
00:12:57
Speaker
um I think like if you've seen Braveheart, they like throwing some stuff around in that. I don't know. it's I think it's the traditional thing that sort of comes through over many, many years, but what it's evolved to now is like they have these competitions where they have some track and field races um and then they have a lot of these sort of traditional heavy weights competitions and they have some dancing and some piping.
00:13:24
Speaker
um So, yeah, it was really cool. I went to that and we were watching. They have and a lot of them, they have a hill race. So it's like, It can vary how long it is, but it can be, say, two to three K up to one of them. I saw had like a 15 K race, so sort of like a so a short trail race, but it's more like a most of them more like a fell race. So it's like there's no marked route.
00:13:48
Speaker
um So this one was just like we were standing where the games were was out on this letter little peninsula in the town. um which was a really cool setting.
00:14:00
Speaker
And then they were like pointed across the bay and like up the hill and they'd like put a flag, a big white flag up on the hill and they're like, you have to run to that flag and then run back. And that was sort of like, you did that whichever way you wanted as quick as you could.
00:14:14
Speaker
So everyone pretty much ran around the road to start with, but once you got to like the hill, you could sort of choose whatever route you wanted to go up the hill. um And there wasn't really tracks. So it was like, um It was cool, was sort of like orienteering for us is what fell runners do a lot. So I decided to go straight at the flag and ended up like in a bog and lots of heather and ferns and stuff. and it was actually quite slow. This other guy went around the fence and it was a bit faster.
00:14:40
Speaker
But then on the way back down, it was much faster to go straight. So, yeah, that was really cool. um That one was, I think it was 4K. So it was nice and short. um But there was also some track and field races happening And there's a fair bit of cash that you can get. So for the hill race, I won 100 pounds, which is about 200 bucks.
00:15:02
Speaker
That's so... um and Wait, did you want it? Yeah, I won it because it it's sort of like mostly locals and a few tourists and stuff. So it's not like a not a competitive race, but it was very fun to be a part of.
00:15:16
Speaker
um But that yeah they were having the track and field and ah we were watching when we first got there because we went to sort of watch as well. um And they had a two lap race and the the oval was probably about, I don't know, about 100 metres, just over 100 metres.
00:15:32
Speaker
So the two lap race was about 300 metres. And we're watching and I'm like, I don't think those guys are running that fast. Like, I reckon I could have done that because I'm not a 200-meter runner. So then they had an eight-lap race a little bit later on and I was like, oh, cool, I'll jump. I was only going to do the hill race, but then we were there and watching and it was quite fun. So it's like, oh, I'll jump in that one as well.
00:15:51
Speaker
And I got the win in that one as well. So i won another 80 pounds. So there's there's a lot of money on hand if you wanted to fast.
00:16:00
Speaker
But it was very it very cool. It's like this small little oval um with like slope on both sides and a lot of people there watching, a lot of the locals and a lot of tourists watching.
00:16:11
Speaker
So it was like quite a really cool atmosphere. it was nearly like the coolest atmosphere I've had in a race for like a long time. So it was fun. I was like playing up the crowd a little bit, doing a little celebration across the line and stuff. so So it was really fun.
00:16:24
Speaker
um And then it was it was really cool to watch. What celebration did you do? What celebration did you do across the line? Just a hand up in the air, one hand up in the air, point point to the crowd. Love it.
00:16:38
Speaker
So good. Yeah, but it was it was really fun. um And there was like another guy who pushed me a bit in the eight lap race and he was a tourist as well and he was literally wearing hiking shoes because it's all he had.
00:16:51
Speaker
So I think he would have beaten me if he had some real shoes. Yeah. But I did run three-minute Ks for a K on grass, so was relatively happy that. Damn, that's pretty good. It was pretty fast in a loop.
00:17:05
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah, that was really fun. And then we we got to watch, s like, the, I think the heavy weights were sort of the best thing that I enjoyed watching. um This was, like, these massive guys, like, throwing these huge weights in different ways. So one of them, they had to, like, throw it up over a bar,
00:17:23
Speaker
behind them so sort of like a pole vault but they weren't jumping the bar they were throwing the weight over the bar um which was like pretty cool and then there's one where they it's called throwing the caver and they have this massive log that they have to like throw in the air and then get it to flip and then land and it's not how far they throw it it's how close it stays to 12 o'clock on the clock so they have to be really accurate but it's like this massive log. I tried like lifting just like the edge of it afterwards. It's really heavy. So that was really cool to watch.
00:17:55
Speaker
But yeah, that was definitely the highlight of my week. um And then, yeah, I did some um jogging after after that um On Friday, i the weather was really bad. So I ended up on a treadmill.
00:18:09
Speaker
and thought okay i'll throw in a bit of elevation play around with what my achilles can handle and did some sort of like really low threshold work um which was which was good and then yeah a little bit more bit more running um just up in the in the mountains but the weather was not so good so didn't really get to sort of do any cool ridge lines or anything like that because that i tried once to sort of go up and the the wind was like 80 kilometers an hour and i was getting blown around i was like this is stupid so i went back down um so that was a bit of a shame um because we were up on some really cool mountains that like these epic ridge lines but um yeah when the weather's not good you just you just can't do them so that was a shame but yeah good week overall i ah yeah going to sky and and and then going to the highland games was a real highlight of
00:19:00
Speaker
like my trip so far as well so it was really awesome yeah sounds like you're just experiencing like such a different culture which is so cool that's part of part of it yeah it's it's cool to see like because in england you would think like is a very similar culture to us but like yeah like particularly the i think the scottish like you've got their like fiercely fiercely independent and they've got their traditions that they they keep rolling along with which are really cool and yeah it was really my friend had told me in the past that Island Games was something you should try and go to at some point.
00:19:32
Speaker
um So, yeah, me and Laura both really liked it. It was really fun. Did you have to, like, book a ticket to it? No. So you had to you had to pay, like, £10 entrance. But then I found out if you were competing, you didn't even have to pay. Like, I'd already paid. But, like, if you were competing, because you were sort of like the entertainment, I guess.
00:19:48
Speaker
So I could have not paid and won £100. But, yeah, we paid, which is – and it was better as very cheap. You just bought, like, a ticket when you got there. And, yeah, it was really cool.
00:19:59
Speaker
Awesome. Nice. But yeah, a good week. um Lots of fun. So that was good. um And then, yeah, we might move on to some um news.
00:20:10
Speaker
I guess one of the big pieces of news from this week that just came out, I think yesterday or the day before, was that ITRA announced the Asia Pacific Trail Running Champs for next
Asia-Pacific Champs Announcement
00:20:23
Speaker
year.
00:20:23
Speaker
So it's going to be in China in a place called Wuyushan, probably not said that right, but that's in in China. It says, I'll read up a little bit of their press release.
00:20:42
Speaker
So it says that and these lands boast a forest coverage rate of over 96%, making them one of China's most biodiverse areas. Wuyushan is not only a feast for the senses, but at a deep well of cultural heritage.
00:20:55
Speaker
It sounds like a cool place in China. um Looks like some big mountains that are sort of like popping up quite steep or some like maybe some smaller mountains with some big cliffs and that sort of thing. so um Looks like a pretty cool place to do trail running.
00:21:12
Speaker
say that really exciting um it's going to be in november next year i believe think it was 12th to 15th of november um and they're going to have the same races they had last year which was the long trail short trail and then the under which fifteen k yeah yeah dan but unfortunately no i mountain distances in. I know like the European off-road championships has the mountain distances and the trail distances, but I think that's also maybe held under European athletics or whereas this one is hasn't quite got to that point yet.
00:21:58
Speaker
So there's no mountain running distances, which I guess is a bit of a shame, but i'm I'm hoping probably at some point in the future those will come in as well for this one. being sort of the regional champs for the World Champs. But it's it's cool that it's it's sort of happening again after South Korea.
00:22:14
Speaker
um yeah It's really it's a really cool um race for Aussies to go and do because like they like you can finish up pretty high in the field, um which is super exciting. like it's just yeah It's a bit more like exciting, I think, than like i don't know what I experienced at Worlds because it's just like it's a whole other ball game um where like Australians just kind of like...
00:22:41
Speaker
We finished like sort of in the second half of the field. um So Asia Pacific Champs was really cool because we just were kind of, it was like the playing field is a bit more even, I feel. yes yeah, yeah.
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's it's it's cool that that it could be, like I see it as being a really important developing ground for trail running in Australia. It's like that's where we can go to try and be competitive and if we can be,
00:23:09
Speaker
If we can try and be really competitive there, then that's a stepping stone to being competitive on the world level rather than sort of just jumping straight to trying to be competitive on the world level. Because you've got like the European nations are always racing against each other in and different um different competitions. They have obviously these European off-road championships. They have just the plethora of different races that they do have. But then there's like mountain running competitions where I've seen Scotland racing as a team and Britain racing as a team in some of the races in Italy. And there's a lot of small of that sort of racing against each other, which I think breeds better.
00:23:49
Speaker
Everyone sort of just gets gets better. So hopefully this can be a ah good spot for us to do that. and And I think we were pretty competitive in in South Korea, so it would be cool to take a step up from that and and try and be really competitive in China and and try and take some of the team wins um would be really cool as well and have some more people on the podium because we did have some some podiums in Korea.
00:24:13
Speaker
So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it. hopefully Hopefully it's a big one. Will you try and is it something that interests you to do again, Jess? Like you were in South Korea racing there. Would you like to do this if it works?
00:24:25
Speaker
um I'm not sure yet. I got i qualified for OCC um for next year. So if I decide to do that, then I probably won't do both. um yeah sir Yeah, cool. Yeah.
00:24:37
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, we'll see. Well, someone will have to we'll have to get someone to replace you in the team then. so hey it Get out lots of all our women runners going for it. Oh, there's plenty of girls in the short trial distance. Yeah, I know. So the team will be strong.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah, definitely, definitely. yeah um Cool. Yeah, so that was that was the Asia-Pacific champs. And then I think you've been sort of keeping your eye on some of the – I've seen a little bit of it, but maybe you can give a bit more of a background of um We wanted to chat a little bit about some of the I guess, the ah chat that's happening about the Tour de Femmes and and then ah people talking about the losing weight for competition topic.
Weight Loss in Competition
00:25:21
Speaker
Yeah, I thought we'd just jump on the train because I feel like most running and, like, sporting podcasts are kind of talking about it. um
00:25:30
Speaker
So basically, like, um the winner of the Tour de Femme kind of came out and said that, One of the main reasons that she attributed to the win was that she strategically um cut down on weight for the race.
00:25:48
Speaker
ah so and that And she thinks that's what helped her um in one specific climb in the race that she did really well in. um And obviously in cycling, like it's a little bit different because they look at power mostly. So it's kind of like that equation of like power, which involves weight, but also like you still need have some weight. Otherwise you're not going to have the power.
00:26:14
Speaker
So I think like, historically, so like back in like the Cadell Evans days, um from what I've heard other podcasts is that cycling, cyclists never really used to focus on like cutting down on weight because they were so focused on the power. So like they would make sure that they would still have like a lot of like muscle for the climbs.
00:26:38
Speaker
um But I think it's it's more of like a recent thing where they're seeing that like Cutting down on weight um can help so that you're not having to like like use as much power. Like I don't even know where I'm going with this, but like it takes less energy for you to get up the climbs. um yeah Yeah, because you've got it you've got to push less weight up the climb. So therefore you need, if you have the same amount of power but less weight, then you will go faster because yeah because you're generating
00:27:11
Speaker
yeah you you have to push less mass up the mountain, but you're generating the same amount of power. So I guess that's that's in essence what they're aiming for, but it's it's a bit of a dangerous game. And and I think yeah in cycling worlds, it seemed to go around from what I've seen, and I'm not fully fully in with the cycling worlds, but I've read um and some books from back in the back in the the questionable doping times as well, and they were very much looking at, um I've read a book by Tyler Hamilton,
00:27:40
Speaker
um who was there with Lance Armstrong and they were they were going out on six hour rides with nothing beforehand, having a black coffee and then getting back and trying not to eat and trying to just lie down and and and just recover.
00:27:55
Speaker
But the aim was to be as light as possible. And obviously that's very dangerous. it um for sort of long-term performance even short-term performance but they were sort of looking for those those gains in in being as as light as possible while trying to maintain power um but the the tricky the tricky bit there is trying trying to maintain the power and that's let alone the the health consequences so yeah it's a very it's a very tricky topic something that i've personally had a lot of trouble with over over the years as well because it is
00:28:30
Speaker
like whilst it's not quite as important for running, running is still a locomotion sport where weight is a factor. And again, we have to generate power to move forward. And then if we're accelerating our mass, if our mass is less, then the argument is the lighter you are, that the the push the harder you can push. But again, it's very it's not as simple as that.
00:28:51
Speaker
um You have to be able to have the power to push yourself forward and your body has to be healthy. um yeah So it's a tricky one. I found it really interesting, all the comments talking about it. And there was, I can't remember the lady's name,
00:29:07
Speaker
But she was talking about how she's like, I can't perform unless I am this weight. And i she was sort of like the other side of the story. I can't remember her name. um But, yeah, she was she was saying that like, and she had pushback from her team um being like, okay, or comments from,
00:29:25
Speaker
from the outside saying, well, you look like you could be a little bit lighter, which is just horrible. yeah um Yeah. But that sort of stuff comes when when the winner is saying, well, i was I was successful because I was really light. So it's it's always going to be a bit of back and forth, but, yeah, it's tricky.
00:29:42
Speaker
Yeah, I think, like, the controversy has come out because it's like, should she be telling people this because it doesn't send... a very good message for like younger athletes that don't have um a very close like team of like dietitians and like sports scientists working with them because I feel that's the only way that you can – that she would be able to do it safely is – like really, really closely dialing in with like all of the macros to make sure that she's still fueling for like the training that she's doing but somehow being in like that deficit where she is able to lose weight like –
00:30:27
Speaker
That has to be very, very fine-tuned because otherwise it's like how are you going to actually get through multi-day stage race um without getting absolutely cooked or injured?
00:30:40
Speaker
um So, yeah, I don't know. I think it's like it's not something that I think people should do um yeah and it's hard because it's like it Yeah, it makes sense from like a scientific point of view as to like why it would work.
00:31:01
Speaker
um But I just think from like experience, like I've experienced it in my own running career, like losing weight and then initially being like you feel like you're flying, um you're running, like running is just so much easier.
00:31:18
Speaker
um But then it all just comes crashing down. um Like your body just can't sustain. ah being in an energy deficit for so long. And it's actually, it's very risky because like if you dig yourself into that hole far enough, you can get red S, which could take years to recover from.
00:31:39
Speaker
So it's just, it it's too much of a risky game to play. I think um you're far better off prioritizing health and consistency so that you can actually get, you can stack the years of training, which is going to lead to like improved fitness and like um like better gains that way and I like personally I think it's the harder way like I think losing weight is kind of like a cop-out in a way like it's a it's an easy it's an easy way to make it easier um definitely yeah that's yeah that's my point of view on it anyway
00:32:17
Speaker
Yeah, and i think I think that's a really sensible way. Like you said, there's her team, I imagine, if she is doing it, they have to be doing it very, very carefully. And we don't know the full picture and like how much trial and error is or even how much damage has it actually done to her.
00:32:33
Speaker
like ishi is Is she actually going to be able to back up and compete again later this year or even next year? like is is Or is this the sort of one and done? we We don't really know that. Hopefully she can continue to perform or hopefully she gets a whatever her, but I imagine, like you said, she's got a team behind her. If she is doing it, she'd be doing it very, very, very monitored.
00:32:54
Speaker
But I would, even if you are doing something with that sort of approach, I think the the risk is still there. Like, and this comes and goes in ways. I remember like the high, it's so interesting to see it now with like the high carb revolution sort of thing happening at the same time. I thought these conversations about weight would,
00:33:15
Speaker
wouldn't be happening as much, but I guess they're still ah still part of the science equation. um But yeah, like a few years ago when I was, yeah, it would have been like 2019 or something. i was like, at that time it was like, okay, well, yes, it is a thing. And if you try and do it carefully, you could do well. So like I was seeing a dietitian with the aim to achieve the lightest possible weight that was still I could still generate power from.
00:33:44
Speaker
but We stuffed it up. I went too far. I got really, I was way too light and I probably lost a bunch of muscle. I lost a bunch of power. And then I ended up with issues probably down the track as well.
00:33:56
Speaker
had a stress fracture a few years later. How much of that was related to that? I don't know. So I think it's, so I agree with you, it's not worth the risk. And I still don't even think it's the risk at the Tour de France level. Like I'm not at that level and it's not worth the risk.
00:34:12
Speaker
And I don't even think for me personally, having experienced in the past, um I wouldn't even be trying to do it if I was at the top, top, top, top level, because I just, I don't know, I just, I'm too scared of what it could do to my body. And I know that you don't know what it's doing to you at the time. It's, there's the sort of downstream effects that can be quite significant. So it's definitely not something that I ever think about wanting to do any longer. I think what we've been talking about over the last few weeks about how your fueling's been going and that sort of stuff. That's definitely my take on it now is like, and and what i and what I do with my athletes as well is like the fueling is the main thing. We're not we're not worrying of like weight and even body composition.
00:34:57
Speaker
Body composition is a bit of a different conversation, but even body composition, I think it's just it's just not worth talking about. It's like if you do the training, if you do the work and you're feeling in appropriately, you think about those things and whatever happens happens whatever your body looks like is is what it's supposed to look like is sort of my take on it now yeah and I think like just naturally like if you're in a big training block and like and like even if you're feeling correctly like I think your body will just adapt anyway to the training like yeah yeah and you'll just end up at the body composition that is the best for you yeah without sort of thinking about the weight equation and it
00:35:35
Speaker
and possibly potentially might be a bit lighter than you were at the start of the training block or or it might be that you're same weight that you're leaner. um But I think thinking about those things as the end goal is not the way to do it. the The way to think about it is I'm fueling for the work that I'm doing and I'm training and whatever, trying to be comfortable with whatever i look like or whatever my weight is, is irrelevant to that situation. And yeah i find these conditions Like you said at the start, I find these they these things very... I'm not arguing against her saying that and potentially her weight did have an impact on her performance. like
00:36:13
Speaker
I think to argue against that is like a bit of a... It's hard too. Scientifically, it is probably part of the picture, but I think the conversations around that have become very, very dangerous. So, yeah, I think it was a great idea to chat about it Obviously, running and cycling different sports, and we don't know cycling...
00:36:31
Speaker
as well. And maybe if I was a cyclist, I don't know how I would think about it. But I think in the running world and just from my experience that feel the work that you're doing, make sure you feel before you fill up properly afterwards and that you're always having enough and do the training and and you will be you will are the best that you can be.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah. And I just feel like food is so good and it should be like a joy, like eating should be like a joyful time. Like, I don't know we train so hard and like the sport is pretty brutal. Like if you take away like the enjoyment that you can get from food, like that's just not a life that I want to live to be honest.
00:37:15
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah i don't I don't care if I'm winning the Tour de France. I want to eat food. But some people are different than that. like it did They have different priorities. But yeah, I think i think ah the main thing is that we shouldn't be sort of demonizing food or demonizing weight either.
00:37:31
Speaker
Because again, like that other lady, and I really should, I tried to find her name, but I couldn't find it. I saw it on Instagram. um yeah She was saying that that was her superpower, like her power from her from her body was her superpower. So I think there is different takes on it also in the cycling world. And I think that's the take that I like to, that I agree with, um that it having a powerful body is that's the most important part yeah because power is still part of the equation.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah, and I think like trail running like um is probably a bit more aligned with that as well than like road running because we have the hills and like the downhills where you need to have the strength, um which, yeah, comes from having power as well. Yeah.
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah, that was a good chat. i yeah, I feel like it's important to just, yeah, remind people that like, i don't know, you don't need to copy things that people are doing, even if they're looking like they're the best in the world, because who knows where they'll be in 12 months time. and um Yes, yeah. And you don't you don't know what's happening in the background either. I've seen so many situations of people having fabulous performances and then two months later as being they have a stress fracture they can't train anymore because they've sort of overdone it a little bit.
00:38:55
Speaker
So there's whilst there is like in the moment when you're looking at someone and they're having a fabulous performance, you're not seeing everything. So I think, like you said, don't ah try and copy, especially the pros. Like we we can't copy what the pros are doing because we don't have but don't have the support teams.
00:39:11
Speaker
We don't have the access to what they have. um So, yeah, be really careful when you're looking at what other people are doing. And that that's the one thing I've been seeing recently with Tour de France thing is like the Tour de France is like they're trying to optimize every single single one percent of there is. So there's so much that comes out of it in terms of especially things like supplements and that sort of stuff. And the supplement companies They make an absolute bank on that because they're getting really onto these things and these things cost a lot of money. Like I've seen something recently that a lot of the Tour de France riders were using. They were having like cherry, tart cherry after their rides. And it was a big thing like it was throughout the peloton.
00:39:50
Speaker
um But most companies are selling them for like twenty, thirty dollars a serve. Like that's crazy. Like, yeah, the pro cyclists, they can do that because their teams pay for it. But like an everyday person, if you're using that as part of your strategy, you're going to be spending a lot of money very quick.
00:40:06
Speaker
um So, yeah, I think it's enjoy what you're doing and and and be realistic with what you can do Remember that like what the pros are doing is is very different. That's that's ah different ah conversation but like similar sort of thing. Yeah. I think like at the end of the day it comes down to like I don't know, just keep it simple.
00:40:28
Speaker
um Like don't get too caught up on all the one percenters. Yeah, and remember why you're doing what you're doing. um I think most of our listeners are trail running because they love it and they love being out in nature and they love being part of the community and and they love running. um That's why you do it.
00:40:43
Speaker
So do what you need to do to be able to do that. And um I'm not saying don't do sports nutrition because it's a good idea, but like you don't need to go after everything. um Go after the get the gels and all the other fuel sources that you might want to use. But, like yeah, you are just out there to enjoy yourself. That's the main goal, really.
00:41:04
Speaker
Yeah, ate all the sugar. and Yeah, exactly. That's the goal. Nice one. All right, well, let's move on to some results from this week. So probably the big overseas race that we saw happen um was Ciesanal in Switzerland, which is ah part of the Golden Trail Series, also part of the World Mountain Running Cup.
Ciesanal Race Analysis
00:41:27
Speaker
um sort of known as this race that brings trail runners and mountain runners and some road runners together um all to sort of race against each other. You get a lot of African runners um in these races particularly even though we're seeing more and more African runners in the Golden Trail series and in some other UTMB races this one for many years has had a lot of African runners come and compete so it's a really cool race with people from all over the world racing and incredibly incredible depth and very fast.
00:41:58
Speaker
um I did it back in 2020, in 2022 it was crazy. I think I came like a hundredth. Like it was just like, there's just so many good people running.
00:42:09
Speaker
um So yeah, and it looked like an incredible race again this year. um What was some of the big things that happened? I think in the in the women, Katie Shire ran.
00:42:22
Speaker
Katie Shard normally would run much longer races. um Yeah. she basically so like She basically just solidified her GOAT status. like Yeah, exactly. It's great.
00:42:35
Speaker
like she She didn't win. like We better give a quick shout-out to Joylene Chepanangino and Carolyn Kumatai, who were first and second. um She wasn't too far behind them, but she did beat people like she came third and she did beat people like Maud Matisse, Miao Yiao,
00:42:52
Speaker
Anna Gibson, like a lot of the a lot of the other sort of people who are doing the Golden Trail races yeah who are sort of specialists at that 30K distance.
00:43:03
Speaker
So, yeah, that was it was pretty impressive. Yeah. Especially to beat Maud. I think Maud's back seems to be running maybe not at her best best, but she's back running well and she does run. She has her run really well at CESA now in the past. So I think that was pretty impressive.
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah. And to go like sub three hours for the women is pretty amazing. Yeah, I think I ran 303. three oh three when I ran it.
00:43:30
Speaker
um And I think I was like, think I think you started at the same time and I think I got beaten by five women. This year, I think it would have been eight women. So again, the the fields are just getting faster and faster.
00:43:42
Speaker
um yeah So some yeah some really impressive times. And we did have, well, I'm sure there was a few Australians. There's always, a like actually one of my friends was running running it because I'd told him about it a few years ago. So shout out to Ian.
00:43:55
Speaker
a um He had a crack. I think he he got it done in and five hours, which is pretty impressive actually because it's a tough race. um But Lara Hamilton was racing again, i think,
00:44:06
Speaker
because it's part of the World Mountain Running Cup, I saw in her Strava that maybe she didn't have the greatest day and she's feeling like she needs a little bit of a rest and a recoup and a rebuild. um But she did still run a solid 43rd place in what quite like I said, a very competitive field.
00:44:23
Speaker
um She ran three hours 34. So maybe not what she was looking for, but still a solid race. Definitely. um And in the men...
00:44:34
Speaker
It was a Kenyan one two three Philemon Kiriago was first. Patrick Kipenangino was second. And Michael Saoli was third. So Michael, I think, has run a lot of the World Mountain Running Cups, but not many of the Golden Trail races, whereas the top two guys are quite common at the Golden Trail series. So it was cool to see Michael Saoli run with them.
00:44:58
Speaker
um And then, yeah, some of the ones we normally see, Elozine, El Azaoui came ninth. So it just sort of shows how competitive this race is. um It's probably the most competitive of the Golden Trail series races in the year.
00:45:11
Speaker
And I think, again, maybe he didn't have his best race, but he's been very dominant in Golden Trail and he was ah you so not at the top top this time, but still still sort of running hard.
00:45:21
Speaker
Were you surprised at like how dominant the Kenyans were ah on both sides? Yeah. Sort of, but they they they sort of, right this race is not incredibly technical.
00:45:35
Speaker
It's got quite a hard downhill at the end and the climb is maybe not, the climb is not smooth. The climb is at times smooth, at times a little rocky and rooty.
00:45:46
Speaker
ah But the middle section from about 6 7km through to must be like 26k, is like pretty rolling, more like a fire roadie type track.
00:45:58
Speaker
um So it sort of lends you lens itself to like fast runners. um So it's not not super surprising. And then again, these guys have been running Golden Trail Series races for a couple of years. And and I think the ladies, I think, are the same. I'm pretty sure...
00:46:16
Speaker
Joilene won the final race last year or she's she's definitely sort of podium before um yeah and I've seen Caroline Kimutai's name as well. So not super. I actually am surprised that they there wasn't more of them out there. Like it's really impressive that um the other really experienced trail runners like Katie and Mort are still theyre still up there beating.
00:46:38
Speaker
Like it's not a it's not a one to ten of Kenyan runners. Like it's... they're still sort of showing that trail running it is an important part of it. um And it was the same in the men. There were some Swiss guys. There's Martin Nielsen who won the Tatra race that Simone was at a few weeks ago.
00:46:56
Speaker
He came sixth, which was really impressive. I think like we've seen him run in some sky running races. But this race is more about how how fit you are nearly, like part of it.
00:47:07
Speaker
um So there that was pretty impressive. um And Andre Blanis from Spain, he came eighth and he came second a few years ago, which got elevated to first when the first person got popped for doping.
00:47:19
Speaker
um So, again, you've got some winners ah in the past there. But, yeah, I think the Kenyan runners, it sort of does does suit them and and they are getting – it's interesting not to see any and runners from other like that part of Africa racing. So there are no Ethiopians.
00:47:39
Speaker
um Uganda or they're running, they run the cross country, like world athletics cross country and stuff, but they not many of them have transitioned into trail running as the Kenyans have. So I think maybe there's a lot of groups out of Kenya that support these runners to to be able to compete, which is really cool.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's cool to see more and more of them, um African nations getting involved and yeah, hopefully like more of them, um Yeah, get into the sport as it grows.
00:48:08
Speaker
It'll be interesting to see at World Champs whether there'll be a strong Kenyan team because I don't remember there was in Austria. I don't think there was. Yeah, it'll be interesting like because they they're usually very good in the mountain running distances and Historically, of the last few years at least, they've run the mountain running cup races quite a bit.
00:48:28
Speaker
um But we haven't I don't think I've seen them be competitive in the longer races. And this race, whilst it is a bit shorter than 45k and a bit of a different race, ah sort of you would think that some of them are getting close, they were they would be able a be competitive if they were racing.
00:48:49
Speaker
um But maybe they focus more on the mountain running distances because it's more their cup of tea than the trail stuff. But I think you'll see it. Hopefully we see it as there's more and more Kenyan runners running maybe and maybe they can't get in the mountain running team so they run the trail team or something like that.
00:49:06
Speaker
Yeah. It'll be interesting to see. Yeah, definitely. Cool. All right. Well, that was Sia Zanal. um I think we've got birdies back at ultra but it's maybe not finished, still going, um ongoing.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yeah, we couldn't find any results for that, but I feel like Phil Gaw is still running laps, so we might report on that. Usually those ones are not finished. bother If they start on a Saturday or Sunday these days, they're not finished by the time we do the podcast because these guys are running so many, guys and girls running so many laps.
00:49:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it's just It goes many days. Yeah, it's just amazing how Phil can back up with so many of these in one year. It's crazy.
00:49:51
Speaker
um Yeah. We had a race in Canberra at Stromlo. Yeah. Yeah, we also had the Canberra Runners Winter Series um at Stromlo, which was some sort of shorter races around the cross-country track over there. So let's just call out the 8K result.
00:50:14
Speaker
um So we had Andrew Whitehead in first place for the men in 31.30 second overall was also the first female, so Ang Harad Leluan in 32.59.
00:50:28
Speaker
in thirty two fifty nine um And then we had Brett Peterson, second male in 35.58. um Martin Fryer was a third male in 37.42.
00:50:43
Speaker
And Barbara McKay was second female in 50 minutes.
00:50:50
Speaker
Nice. And then we had a race down in Tassie or did you have another event from that one? um No. Cool. We had the Northwest Trail Running Series down in Tassie.
00:51:03
Speaker
um I'm not sure where this one was actually. It's not telling me on here. But in the long course, Thomas Merton got the win in the men in 1 hour 12.34.
00:51:16
Speaker
And second was Liam Williams in 1 hour 20.39. And third was Marcus Larch in 1 hour 24.50.
00:51:24
Speaker
And then in the women, the winner was Stella Foley in one hour 41.39. One second ahead, lewis Louise McMullen, who I think I know Louise. Nice one, Louise.
00:51:38
Speaker
is one I only realized that as I was reading it off the page. 1 hour 41.40, so it was a one second gap on chip time. ah Finish time was four seconds separated, but um chip time one the second, which is really crazy.
00:51:53
Speaker
And third was Sasha Ralston in 1 hour 47.30. So that was the long course. They also had ah medium course, which I'll quickly yell out.
00:52:03
Speaker
Katie Bessel was first in 1 hour 58. Lynn St. John was second in 101.18 and Rachel Young was 103.32 for third.
00:52:15
Speaker
And in the men, the winner was Evan Brett in 55.30, second Connor Lambert 57.53 and third Rowan Bartha 59.14. So, yeah, are some cool races happening down. This is one of the series.
00:52:29
Speaker
There's a Kenyani Trail series down in the south of Tassie. This one's up in the north of Tassie. um And they seem to have some pretty competitive fields or like they're at least all running similar times, which must be fun.
00:52:41
Speaker
And they're like a nice little race happening down there. So it's not like massive gaps between people. So yeah, cool stuff happening down in Tassie. And I think maybe is that all the results we had for this week?
00:52:52
Speaker
Yeah, that was all the results
Upcoming Race Previews
00:52:54
Speaker
we had. um so yeah And then next week, what if what have we got coming up? Forget what? We've got, run looks like we've got Run Larapinta starting this week, which is sort of like a four-day stage race up on the Larapinta Trail.
00:53:08
Speaker
So that would be cool. I've heard a few people that have done that in the past. We've got the Ironwood 24 Ultra Trail Run in New South Wales. Surf Coast Wonderfalls down in the Great Opway National Park in Victoria.
00:53:24
Speaker
Transcend Trails is on next weekend. Oh, yeah, that's a big one. Yeah. That's a big one. So that one, and I think we you guys talked a few weeks ago with Shane and that's going to have a live stream, is that right?
00:53:36
Speaker
Yeah, it'll have a live stream. um So we can share that to our stories. For anyone interested, I think Mikey Demuantis is running the Ultra. So that'll be exciting to see how he's going.
00:53:49
Speaker
um Expect some quick times. Yeah, see if he can go for the record. Yeah, nice. And ah they live streamed the whole event.
00:54:00
Speaker
is it Was that right? And there's when the last hour is finishing, everyone dresses up in onesies. Maybe i'll just log on and watch that bit.
00:54:08
Speaker
um That looks like fun. I'm not sure about the onesies. But, yeah, they have. Yeah, no, I think it was as Shane was saying about it. i think there was a picture of Shane running in a onesie up the finish line. Okay.
00:54:24
Speaker
With some people. i think I swear he said that. Anyway, I might be making up things. So anyway, hopefully that's free advertising. People might go and watch just in case. If it's not on there, don't blame me. But I think that's what I heard. Yeah,
00:54:40
Speaker
that's coming up on the weekend. So hopefully that will be a cool race to watch. um Up, down, black, down in Queensland. Looks like an up and down race, which looks fun.
00:54:54
Speaker
Christmas Island Marathon, Devil Bend Trail Run, lots of things happening on. Fed Hill Trail Run, West Wodonga, which I think is part of the Riverina Trail Series.
00:55:07
Speaker
um Yeah, lots going on. Good time of year to run on trails, it seems, particularly maybe in Queensland. places where it's not so nice over summer this is sort of the time of year we see more events happening like they kind of have a break during winter and then picks up again as it gets a little bit warmer um nice one nice one what are you up to next week got a good training week planned Yeah, big week this week. um Another three and a half hour run on the weekend.
00:55:41
Speaker
So go find some steep trails to run on to be fun. Nice. Nice. Nice. Yeah. Other than that, just planning.
00:55:52
Speaker
Got to plan my trip. Yeah. Okay. Nice one. Well, good luck with that. um I'm... Going to be in Edinburgh. The Fringe Festival was actually on this week, so i'm going to go watch some comedy shows.
00:56:04
Speaker
um And then I'm flying to Ireland later in the week and then spending three weeks there before heading down to Spain. So, um yeah, looking forward to that. Should be a good week.
00:56:18
Speaker
Are you going to Camp Frank? I'm going to Canfrank when I first go to Spain and then I'm going to check out the course for a few days and then I'm going to fly to we actually go to Sardinia for two weeks, I think, um and then back to Canfrank for the race. so So check out the course and then spend the last two weeks away.
00:56:41
Speaker
um But hopefully going to get some good heat training in Sardinia and I think there's still some good, sorry, I think there's still some good mountains. So, yeah, should be a good ah bit of run and then a bit of beach to recover as well. Nice.
00:56:54
Speaker
Perfect combo. Yeah, yeah. Nice one. Oh, well, well thanks everyone for listening this week and we'll catch you next week. you guys.