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Sarah-Jayne Miller: Balancing Family, Teaching, and Racing for Australia at WMTRC 2025
378 Plays28 days ago
On this episode of Peak Pursuits, we sit down with SJ Miller — mother of three, high school teacher, and one of Australia’s highest-ranked trail runners. From her breakout in 2014 at Buffalo Stampede to her return to the national team in 2025, SJ shares the highs and lows of racing at the pointy end while juggling work, family, and life on the move as a Defence Force family. We talk through her UTA injury and recovery, the community that has carried her through countless relocations, and the mindset that keeps her grounded in both running and motherhood. Tune in to hear the full story.
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at Bix’s website for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the People's Shoes Podcast. My name is James Sieber and today I'm joined by Sarah Jane or SJ Miller as we lead up to the world's mountain and trail running championships in Canfrank.
00:00:27
Speaker
SJ will be representing the short trail team and on her second national team, the last one being back in 2014. This one was a really fun one as SJ and I got to do this interview in person as we both live in the same place here in Albury.
00:00:41
Speaker
And also she is one of my closest friends, training partners as well with my wife. So this was a fun one to dive into and have a few more insights than maybe we would normally be able to share.
00:00:52
Speaker
If you haven't heard of SJ, her last five years especially have been quite impressive, racking up multiple podiums, multiple
Training and Team Dynamics
00:01:00
Speaker
wins. This conversation with SJ takes a load of different turns and has some very valuable insights into racing into your early 40s as a mother and the juggling act that all of that entails whilst working a full-time job.
00:01:12
Speaker
a great conversation about the current and future trajectory of the sport, sponsorships, and a whole lot else about her past performances and her life traveling around Australia with her husband in the army.
00:01:24
Speaker
really hope you enjoy this one. And with that, let's get to the podcast with SJ Miller. SJ, welcome to the podcast and a live in-person one because we both live in Albury. How are you going today?
00:01:35
Speaker
um I'm going good. Thanks so much for having me. This going to be fun. It is, it's a really weird one to do it in person. And it's also strange. You are like one of my closest friends here.
00:01:46
Speaker
Your main training partner is my wife when everybody is healthy and myself. It is, yeah, it's it's strange being here. It is. much you don't already know. No, exactly. And kind of working out what's what's the best thing to talk about, where to start and everything.
00:01:59
Speaker
But I said just offline, I think actually start with very recently this weekend because you've just come back from Bright training with Jess and Trish who are also on the short trail team with you. How did the training go? i know it was quite an eventful experience on the Wandy course.
00:02:13
Speaker
um Yeah, that was, um it was super fun. So Trish reached out and yeah, invited us um on a bit of a training weekend. um Mia unfortunately was unable to make it, but some yeah, we managed to head down to Bright on Saturday.
00:02:30
Speaker
ah Trish and I went down on Friday evening um and Jess met us there on Saturday afternoon. And um yeah, we just found anything steep that we could possibly find and spent hours um navigating the the trails there. I think the plan was to do the Wandi Cross course, um the long course there. um We got a little lost at some stages and regrouped, but um the aim of The whole weekend was to do a big training weekend out on the Sunday or day out on the Sunday and climb as much as we could and descend as much as we could. um But, yeah, and aside from that, get to know each other
Balancing Family and Running
00:03:10
Speaker
as well, which was really nice. I'd met Trish before and had, um well, it was nice not to race Trish for starters. it was It was really cool to just spend some time with her and we're both mums and we both um got jobs and it was really cool to um to spend some time with her and also with Jess as well, who I hadn't spent a lot of time with.
00:03:27
Speaker
And um yeah, it was a really fun weekend getting to know each other. um The run the ru was pretty was pretty tough. It was a good day out. It was a great training run, good training stimulus, and really was really glad that that happened.
00:03:41
Speaker
I think it's something that when was speaking to Tom Dade, he mentioned that the last time he was on the team, he didn't really get a chance to actually speak to that many people on the team with him and that I think because we're so spread out as a country that often you are racing and training with people, racing people that you've never trained with.
00:03:57
Speaker
Don't really know. So the fact that you guys got that chance to connect, you've been on a world's team before now having a bit more of a relationship with Jess and Trish, do you feel like that's going to change the experience for you?
00:04:08
Speaker
um Absolutely. For me personally, I think it will because um first of all, they're just nice humans. So I feel like if, um I don't feel like need to hide things if I've got a niggle or if I wasn't feeling good or um for me, it didn't feel like there was any comparisons um on the day out there. Nobody was trying to out climb or out descend anyone.
00:04:28
Speaker
um It didn't get competitive. It was actually just a really fun training experience. And for me, that's really important because I do this as a hobby. Like this is running is not my job. This is what I do for fun.
00:04:41
Speaker
And ah really am grateful that it was fun um and that we weren't, yeah, trying to, I guess, outdo one another. It was just about spending time.
00:04:51
Speaker
um I think I'll need that overseas because I'm not super well-travelled independently. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to having some people that I can reach out to and have coffee with and food with and go for runs with and jogs with and I think the team management has tried this time around to get Zooms up and running and for us to try and introduce ourselves and sort of um with chat groups and things like that to reach out to each other and ask questions and be really inclusive and so um yeah, let people know what we're doing. There's been some messages going on in the chat in terms of like, I'm down in Melbourne this weekend if anyone's around for a run and um I'll be in Barcelona at this time if anyone's if anyone's around. So yeah, I think it'd be a really good group and I'm super pumped to be on it.
00:05:40
Speaker
Sounds quite nice just to be over in Barcelona right now as we're we're in winter. Something you said then about traveling over and the challenges that can add to trying to compete. I know when people are choosing the teams in any country, they're always thinking about how well has this person performed overseas in the past and how well can they cope under pressure. In that respect, right what do you foresee like the challenges for you going overseas to be?
00:06:04
Speaker
So for me, the challenges going overseas are mainly logistic. um as As you know, like I and work as a high school teacher locally, um so even just getting the time off work that's not in a school term was was really tricky and it's it's not just one week, it's it's three. um And then there's The prep for that in terms of leaving all my planning for the person that's taking over my class and then telling my class who um I adore but that I'm not going to be there for three weeks and um somebody else will be supporting them.
00:06:35
Speaker
It's then working out logistics of my three kids and their sports and their schooling and what's going on in their lives. um So, yeah, for that reason, my husband is not coming over with me. um He'll be...
00:06:49
Speaker
b um Still working but at home with the kids and um yeah trying to stick to the schedule as ah as a one-man band. So, yeah, ah that's tricky.
00:07:02
Speaker
It is. And when you just started mentioning all the school sports, my head was like, oh, wow, you're navigating three kids and everything that they do and I know how busy they are and that's – Complex.
00:07:14
Speaker
And says a lot for Ray, your husband, for kind of get not as so much giving you permission but just supporting you in the in this pursuit. Do the kids at school in your class, do they understand what you're doing and the fact that you are getting a chance to represent your country?
00:07:27
Speaker
i um I toyed with a little while as to whether or not or how much I wanted to share. don't talk about my running and what I do them personally.
00:07:40
Speaker
too much. um For this, I did sort of let them in on the fact that I was going overseas to do something um something pretty big and um they they did sort of probe and ask questions and catch wind of of what was happening.
00:07:53
Speaker
um They haven't asked too many questions, so I'm not i'm not quite quite sure if they know and know too much about it. But um yeah, um and it's probably even the same with my kids. I think they know they know the same like my actual kids.
00:08:07
Speaker
They know that I'm going overseas, they know that I'm i'm in this team and I'm doing this cool representation gig, but i I don't, I still think to them I'm just, i'm i it's nothing special, I'm still mum and they don't they don't really give it too much airtime.
00:08:23
Speaker
um Yeah, which is which is interesting. Do you like the fact that it's not being built up in their in their heads about what you're doing and this pursuit of like performance? I do um i think if I'm being honest with myself, I do. i do joke sometimes um when, for example, my 15-year-old had to do a PE assignment on an inspiring athlete and um I didn't even get a look in.
00:08:45
Speaker
um And when he does assignments and things like that for PE, um he doesn't think to ask me about any sort of training or when he does his own little trial races, he really doesn't want to take on board any of my advice, um yeah, which you which you've... um been witness to um but i do i do like that to them i am i am just mom and i am more than running because running won't be around forever so and i would hate for them to be ah disappointed if i wasn't doing it anymore um yeah i think yeah i'm happy for it to be separate i can't not ask this one i how did it feel getting beaten by a son for the first time
00:09:29
Speaker
Okay, that needs context. um i ah How did I feel being beaten by my 15-year-old in a trail race? um It felt good.
00:09:41
Speaker
it it felt It did feel really good. I was definitely um not in my best shape at that time, but and I did roll my ankle three kilometres in and sort of decided at that stage that I wasn't going to throw all into that because I think I had just found out that I had made the team and I had bigger fish to fry.
00:10:02
Speaker
um no one at that stage um knew that. um What was really lovely about that race was it was Mother's Day and he had just started getting obsessed with trail running and really, um really enjoying the community experience and wanting to be part of the event.
00:10:18
Speaker
And he followed me. four kilometers and just um executed his beginning really, really well. And he saw me roll my ankle. And when we pulled up on some fire trail, he was like, are you okay, mum? That looked bad. And I was like, no, mate, it's okay. I'm i'm i'm good.
00:10:35
Speaker
And then he was running with me for a little while and then just randomly turned around and looked at me and he's like, happy Mother's Day, mum. And I'm like, oh, mate, thank you. Like, thanks so much. And just in that moment, I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. I'm in an event with my son on a trail and we're running together.
00:10:55
Speaker
um And I'm running hard still, so I'm still getting something out of it. And I don't know what it was. He just, he had some gusto that day and then he just, he just took off. And i think,
00:11:06
Speaker
Once he was in front, he was never going to let me draw him back. And I didn't have that competitiveness in me on that day too to want anything back from him. I wanted him to have all of that experience. So he's definitely got a got one up on me for for now.
00:11:26
Speaker
I feel like you have to let him have have one. It might be a while. I like the fact that... No, no, he didn't beat the next one. And I like the fact that he said Happy Mother's Day and then proceeded to leave you in the dust. yeah I don't think I've interviewed anybody who has kids that are your age, 10 to 15, 9 to 15.
00:11:43
Speaker
And i think it's interesting, and as someone that doesn't have kids, that... You've got something that's such a big portion in your life in trail running and running. And then these kids growing up, seeing you do that.
00:11:54
Speaker
Is it, do you feel like you want to push them or direct them towards running? Or are you like actively avoiding that? Or like, how do you navigate that whole thing?
00:12:06
Speaker
um That's a really interesting one because that's, again, another another thing that i've I've wrestled with. I never want to push them into any sports, especially if they're not enjoying it and and they're not having fun.
00:12:18
Speaker
um So my eldest is 15 and then I have a 13-year-old 9-year-old. um And when I was running in Townsville, um my son, who might have been about 10 at the time, um wanted to come along to one of the trail races. And um I took him along because my husband was looking after the other two.
00:12:41
Speaker
And my race, which I think was a half marathon or whatnot, started before the kids race. And it sort of dawned on me that I didn't really have anyone to supervise him to sort of start his race. And i remember telling him, mate, all you have to do is like follow the markers.
00:12:56
Speaker
You'll be fine. At the end, find someone in my team shirt and say I'm SJ's son. And when I got back after finishing my race, I found him and he's like, I did what you said.
00:13:08
Speaker
i told someone I was SJ's son and he had a smoothie, he had a hot dog, he had like all of these things in his hand and he's like, this is so much fun, mum. Can I come to the next race?
00:13:20
Speaker
And I think he just like that whole sense of community was was really great for him and he wanted to come along to all of the trainings. um My middle son still really enjoys it, but I think for different reasons. He's very logical and he sees it as this is just a chance for me to move.
00:13:38
Speaker
um And my daughter also likes it, but at the moment she's a very, um i I don't want to do things that are that are too hard. um So we take her along to the ones that she wants to do, which is which is great. But we um she's definitely a fine weather runner. She doesn't want to do anything in the cold or dark or rain wind, which is fair enough. I think there's um there's plenty of time for that. But i um I hope that they love it and get something out of it as much as I do, even just from a community sense, I think. um Yeah, first and foremost, and not necessarily anything based around competition.
00:14:17
Speaker
When you start thinking about the hours that it takes to train, especially competing at the level that you compete at when essentially every race, I think bar one in the last three, four years you've entered, you've been on the podium. So you're right at the very, very pointy end.
00:14:30
Speaker
How do you go with balancing the mum, the work and the running and also being a wife and the social side? it just, it seems like a massive juggle and I see you do it obviously. So this is a very leading question, but I i still don't quite understand how you do it.
00:14:45
Speaker
ah Yeah, it's an impossible task, um to be honest. i um i always have this notion that um there are three main elements. There's there's work and career as one. There's wife and mother as the second one, and then there's the runner.
00:15:06
Speaker
And that also doesn't take into account the social and the being a friend and daughter and whatnot. But if I just take those three, um work, running, and family, i feel like I can only ever be good at two of them at any one time and one of them sort of needs to give. So if I'm kicking goals at work and I'm super organized and I've got all my lessons planned and I've got heaps of energy for my students and I'm also doing the same with running, um getting all my sessions in, um reading my program before i before the morning of and actually being prepared for what I'm supposed to do, then the
00:15:42
Speaker
um the family side drops off. I don't have as much energy for my kids. I don't have as much energy for um playing board games or something at home. um And i like to try and notice that really quickly, but then sadly one of the other two needs to drop off a bit so I can claw back. So I feel like I can i can do a good job at being on the ball with two out of the three at any one time, but they definitely, yeah we're being if we're being honest,
00:16:10
Speaker
Getting all three of them right is really, really tricky and, yeah, I feel like if I can get two and the people in the other category can just be really patient with me for a little while until that swings back around, then, yeah, that's the best I can do with what I've got really.
00:16:27
Speaker
A few years ago, I was listening to a podcast and can't remember who it was, but they were talking about this concept of balance. they We're always trying to keep everything in balance in life, but life isn't necessarily about equally balancing all five things you've got going. It's about, there's a period where you have emphasis and then you de-emphasize that and et cetera. And whether it's essentially periodizing your year from attention or it's having seasons of life where you, for five years, this is your thing and then changes, et cetera.
00:16:50
Speaker
I feel like that's It's very relevant. However, challenge of that is the like emotional toll that that puts on one. Can you expand a bit on how you manage the emotional aspects of knowing that you've either de-emphasized work, family, or running for a period? Three things that are very important to you.
00:17:08
Speaker
um I think... how do i well How do I carry the emotional toll? How do i um It's hard. I get, I'm really hard on myself and I'm very reflective.
00:17:20
Speaker
um I feel like a lot of the time I'm constantly apologising to friends or family work colleagues or um running buddies or my coach or or whatnot for not getting things perfect. And I'm definitely very hard on myself.
00:17:37
Speaker
um I try... to keep myself in check with you can do better here, you need to do better here, but then also balance that with a little bit of grace in terms of I'm trying really hard to get everything right and we're just not really designed to do that. So, um yeah, it's definitely it's definitely not easy. I'm a bit of an overthinker and a people pleaser, so none of these elements of my personality exist.
00:18:04
Speaker
make what I'm trying to do very easy at all, really. But um yeah, when i when I head to bed at night, I can generally choose an area where I've tried really hard. I can also pick one where I need to do better.
00:18:17
Speaker
But um yeah, I feel like the way that I can balance that is just by acknowledging where I am, what I'm doing good at right now and where I need to pull my socks up, I think.
00:18:28
Speaker
And in like a home environment, again, you have kids, your husband is also... very active and he has has his hobbies that he wants to put his time to. What's that kind of conversation like when you go hey, I want to apply for the world's team and this is going to take all my attention. It's a big financial incentive and I'm going to disappear for three to four weeks and leave you with everyone. Yeah, I definitely this time floated the application with um with putting him for for the world team with um my, yeah, with my husband.
00:18:57
Speaker
he He was really supportive. um We agreed that I might not have many opportunities after this one um and that if I was ever going to do this again now now is the time.
00:19:10
Speaker
um So, yeah, he was he was very supportive. um He's really great at managing things when I am, lower. So we have this thing where we try and make 100% between us.
00:19:25
Speaker
And if I'm only coming in at 20, he has to be 80.
Trail Running Journey and Achievements
00:19:29
Speaker
um And same goes if he's had a really stressful day at work, or if he's been away for a few days with work or whatnot, and he's only coming back with 80.
00:19:38
Speaker
ah Sorry, it'd be great if he came back with 80. If he's only coming back with 20, then I have to be 80. And if we can always sort of between us, take one for the team and try and equal 100, maybe we can we can get things done and everybody's um everybody's able to do the hobbies that they're interested in so if I'm going away on training weekends and I'm my blocks are building up or I'm going away on um yeah other weekends even just friendship ones I definitely like we don't keep score but I definitely bank those in terms of you know next time he wants to go away or wants to go pursue pursue some of his hobbies I need to
00:20:19
Speaker
make space in my in my time for that so he can do that. um Otherwise, I'd be doing it all on my own and then we've got another problem. ah yeah. When we're talking about applying for Worlds this year, after UTA last year where you came second, and I'll come back and speak about that race as a race a bit later, but you did come away with quite a significant injury from that one that had you essentially off for best part of four months, four or five months.
00:20:45
Speaker
And then it's been a process of building back and building back and building back. And so if you look at your race results, there isn't much that's happened in this interim. Now, I know that applying for the Worlds was something that you battled with in itself.
00:20:57
Speaker
Now that you find yourself in the team, can you talk a bit about that? Kind of, am I still good enough for this? this Should I apply? and And what it feels like to then get it?
00:21:08
Speaker
um that rhetoric has been in my head a lot of the time. um i I did wrestle with applying because i guess, yeah, this year I didn't have a lot to put um to put on the on the resume.
00:21:20
Speaker
um I was recovering from a really significant injury that happened at UTA and then just a few extra setbacks. um But my reason for applying was that within the qualifying period I had some really strong results that I worked really hard for, um like really hard for. i And I know everyone works hard for their results. So that's not that's not unique to me.
00:21:47
Speaker
But if I'm just speaking for myself and advocating for myself, like I worked, I worked really hard. I got those good results. So I feel like I Like I earned them. um So I thought I'd throw my name in the ring and I wasn't really expecting much to come out of it.
00:22:07
Speaker
um But yeah, here we are. And when I said about your past results, the first time you represented the country was 2014. 2014 was the first year you started trail running properly at Buffalo. When you got in the team back then, essentially you just turned up, ran a marathon, came second, first Australian and got on a team.
00:22:26
Speaker
Now you think about how much hard work and dedication it takes to get onto this team. Does getting onto this team in 2025 feel might be different to getting onto it back 2014? Absolutely. That's some fun memories to look back on and just, ah I guess, an indication of how much the sport has grown in the past 11 years.
00:22:48
Speaker
um Yeah, that race, Buffalo Stampede 2014, yeah, showed up, had no idea what I was getting myself in for, hadn't done a road marathon, let alone a trail marathon,
00:23:01
Speaker
um Went into that race purely because the people in my running group were training for it. um My favourite winery was down the road. I thought this would be a great opportunity for me to just go run a few trails and and then go drink some wine. And it was definitely a lot.
00:23:18
Speaker
um The weekend didn't quite pan out that way. i I know there was a few really good runners that were supposed to run that year. And i think because at the time Buffalo Stampede was wedged in between six foot and UTA um that was the one in the middle so those that maybe had wanted to do six foot didn't do buffalo so that they could then do UTA but that works for me um so yeah i found myself finishing second first female behind Anna Frost who I remember not knowing who that was and um running next to her and she's like hi I'm Anna and I'm like hi Anna I'm Sarah and and then people were just like
00:23:57
Speaker
Like, do you know who that was? And I was like, oh, no, I didn't because I didn't really know much about the sport. um I definitely know now. um So that was really great. But the like after I crossed the finish line, she came over to me and she's like, so we'll see you in Chamonix.
00:24:11
Speaker
was like, what do you mean? Like where's that? Is it local? um And, yeah, I remember going to the Bright Brewery that night and everyone was throwing around their, you're going to go to France for this sky running thing. And I'm like, I don't think I am. Like I don't. that they're not going to let me do that like why why um and yeah that happened I found myself on a on a sky running team which um was an amazing experience and that definitely like full throttle kick-started the the entire journey so um yeah it was probably the best show up to a race idea I think I've ever had yeah
00:24:50
Speaker
yeah So you turn up in 2014, you race yourself in one go onto a national team, which is ah pretty cool experience. But it also says that the majority of people don't just turn up and have a performance like that.
00:25:03
Speaker
And know I've actually asked you before, but I generally can't quite remember. Where did that come from? Like, what was your past in sport to put you in that position? Yeah. um i played netball growing up um like a lot of like a lot of Aussie girls do.
00:25:20
Speaker
um I was obsessed with netball growing up. I wanted to be on the best teams. I remember quitting teams to go and play for other teams that I thought were better and that would push me. I played on rep teams.
00:25:31
Speaker
um I tried out for sports. um Yeah, any team that I possibly could. I remember being asked when I was in year 10 or year 11, got given a flyer to go to America for ah like a netball like development camp, um but I wasn't allowed to. um Yeah, my parents wouldn't let me go,
00:25:53
Speaker
but i I wanted to play netball for Australia. Like that was my that was my thing. I played netball and then I played basketball for fun. um I dabbled in cross country at school. I'd always sort of, there was a great friend of mine actually, i could never beat her in running at at school. wasn't until I think high school that I managed to win a cross country, like and I'm talking late high school, like year 10 when maybe she didn't want to run anymore.
00:26:18
Speaker
um But i was always I was always active and yeah, I took netball really seriously And my running came from that. I was a centre. I was told my job was to run around the court and not stop for the entire hour. And I took that role on really seriously. Yeah, yeah. so um and I remember running a little bit with my dad.
00:26:41
Speaker
um So that was sort of how we um bonded, I guess. He played football and um after he stopped playing footy, um He would just run to keep fit and that was the thing that he used with me to sort of help de-stress me with exams and HSC and um it was really cool because it was something we would do together and yeah, we would um we would have this 5K course and um he's born in 1959.
00:27:08
Speaker
And as like I would, he would be saying, you know, my birth date, we've just got to get my birth date to try and get, to try and get a 20 minute 5k. And I remember being so mad at him all the time and being like, I'm not going to get it. I'm not going to get it. And he's like, just got to get to my birth date. It's okay. And,
00:27:25
Speaker
um Yeah, I actually really vividly remember the first time that I ran 1959 on our little back behind my house trail and um I had to go straight to work afterwards and I thought I was going to be late.
00:27:38
Speaker
So, yeah it was that that fear of getting in trouble, I think. But, um yeah, it like that's where it came from, I think, just spending time with my dad and and wanting to be good at netball. Yeah.
00:27:51
Speaker
Yeah. But then there's still the years preceding Buffalo where you've had your first son in 2010, second one 2013, 12, and then you raced Buffalo Marathon 2014 in March. So it's not relatively close to having a second son. And then the part you had too. So were you running throughout that whole period?
00:28:12
Speaker
So when I went to uni, I ran – i ran little bits. I actually joined the Army Reserves so i' made sure that I kept fit for that. I wanted to make sure that I passed all the basic fitness tests. i always I also wanted to make sure that I did well any time we did BFAs and things like that. So I definitely trained um while I was at uni for running um but I again still played netball.
00:28:39
Speaker
played netball right up until I was 25. five um Yeah, so quite um high level netball. And um I remember a specific game where I had entered a half marathon, my first ever one, and it was on the Sunday. And we had a netball final on the Saturday.
00:29:03
Speaker
and I remember playing that game of netball and being so tired and not wanting to play anymore because I wanted to save myself for the half marathon that I had on the next day.
00:29:15
Speaker
and I think i remember thinking, I don't think I want to play netball anymore. I want to run. and that sort of, yeah, I remember pulling back a little bit from my game so that I could, it's not great for the team, we still won, pulling back a little bit from from playing super hard so I could still get the time um that I wanted.
00:29:38
Speaker
but um Yeah, I think during like my early 20s, I just ran for fitness. I remember um ah my husband was overseas um with work and just running to keep fit and yeah, going to the gym a lot, running the treadmill, doing aerobics classes. I used to love the back-to-back aerobics classes. I thought I was um incredibly fit because I could do two hours of aerobics and So spin classes, back-to-back spin classes and things like that. Yeah, it was um definitely didn't get to trails until around that, yeah, 20, very end of 2013, 2014 mark. But, yeah, aerobics classes were where it's at.
00:30:22
Speaker
Honestly, I think the funniest thing I find in that is that you did a half marathon on the road. I know. that's That's even more shocking for me as someone that's, yeah. Let's say, yeah, you're kind of adverse to the whole road scene.
00:30:33
Speaker
Having already been a mom, essentially when you come to the trails and you're suddenly competitive and then you have your daughter in 2016, when you look at your results, as kind of a clear gap between 2014 to 2018 where you've been coming back after her. When you came back that time,
00:30:50
Speaker
Did you think about things any differently about sort of trying to get back for the performance side, for the competitive side of the sport? I actually made Australian team in 2018.
00:31:03
Speaker
um I didn't end up going, um so I accepted my position first. um on that team. It was in Scotland, pretty sure it was Skyrunning 2018. So Sadie had already been born, she was she was two.
00:31:15
Speaker
um But i I decided not to go. I think I had an injury and my husband had exams um and it was just a really bad time with um having really young kids. um Young kids is a super hectic time of life. um I never, I always really enjoyed doing my best.
00:31:37
Speaker
I, and I always really enjoyed doing well at events, but I never anticipated or I, the motivation behind running and going to events was never to, um, increase my resume or to make any sort of team. It was because,
00:31:55
Speaker
um Yeah, I ah love training. um i love training way more than I like racing, but i I felt like after all the training, after a while, eventually my friends or the community that I was in at the time would convince me to do some sort of race and then I would ah would do um doing quite well.
00:32:14
Speaker
um Yeah, I'm not quite sure what the motivation was for applying for the team 2018. in twenty eighteen Maybe there was like a bit of internal comeback in my in my brain. But I think I actually remember feeling really stressed about the situation. I think with having three young kids and a really um a partner with a really busy job that it it started to give me a little bit, it didn't give me joy.
00:32:40
Speaker
i remember going to the Cairo and talking to Cairo about it and just not um not feeling really comfortableably comfortable with it. It didn't get me excited. So I think I pulled the pin on that and ended up, I think, doing Hounslow that year for the first time ever and had an absolute ball.
00:33:02
Speaker
um So, yeah. Whilst you talking then, it made me think that, again, you're in a rare scenario here where you've got older kids already. With the knowledge that you have now as a mum of teenagers, and to say what advice do you wish you had get being being given or or you could give back to the version of you ah had the one-year-old, the three-year-old, the five-year-old? That's a good one because there's lots of things I probably didn't do right.
00:33:30
Speaker
um I actually wish that I had taken longer to get back into running after having kids. um It's not something – women's health wasn't something that was, I guess, that I knew a lot about, um especially running and like pelvic floor issues and things like that after having having
Community and Relocation Experiences
00:33:54
Speaker
babies.
00:33:54
Speaker
um So that was something I was not – prepared for. um And I remember after having my third child, that was something that I found really um difficult to get back into. um And that got me really down for a while because running didn't feel um normal.
00:34:13
Speaker
um And it didn't yeah it just didn't feel as easy as as the other two and I had to do a lot of work and a lot of physio rehab to um to get back to running so I guess my advice like from that instance would be um not going back to running too soon is not because people don't want to see you back running it's because people want to see you back running um So and the other thing was, ah my indoor trainer. My indoor um cycling bike was an absolute saviour for the years of my kids being um younger. I never had a treadmill. I wish i did. I don't know why we never got one. That was a ridiculous idea. But I had a spin bike and I would just put that baby in in the pram or the bouncer or whatnot and jump on the spin bike at any time.
00:35:10
Speaker
um And that definitely helped keep my sanity, I guess. I feel like there's a lot of young parents that I've spoken to this podcast and that well we know in the sport that probably enjoy listening to that. I think also the fact that it's okay to not get it all right and to not have all those answers and that you will, regardless of how well-intentioned you are, I'm sure in 10 years' time you'll look back and go,
00:35:32
Speaker
why did I do that? Or i wish I'd known this. yeah You've mentioned a couple times the community side of things and your husband, Ray, he's in the army, as as you said. So that has involved getting posted every two years and moving around. How much has the running community had an impact on you when you've been going around um It's been really important. i um I cried for a week when I found out we were getting posted out of Canberra and and moving to Townsville because i had all of my running routes in Canberra. I had um like a new where to go for all my different workouts. I had all my physios and podiatrists and everything set is set up in Canberra so well and I was terrified of moving to Townsville because
00:36:16
Speaker
I had this idea that it's going to be flat. There's no hills there. Like, I'm a trail runner. I, you know, I need hills. I want to climb. I'm going to hate this. And after two years in Townsville, um which should have been the two most terrible years ever because the i think we flooded in the big wet in Townsville 10 days after moving there, so we were homeless.
00:36:40
Speaker
um We lived on a friend's floor for two weeks. We lived in an evac centre for two weeks and we lived in a hotel for four months. um before we moved back into a house. And we did this with three young kids um and a husband who was supposed to be getting deployed as well. It was, yeah, it was um it was pretty crazy.
00:36:57
Speaker
But the the community that I found there, I was too devastated about leaving when we left because Oh, and the second year was COVID.
00:37:08
Speaker
So the first year we flooded, we were only there for two years. The first first year we flooded 10 days after getting there and the second year was COVID. So we were in lockdown. So I shouldn't have known anybody really.
00:37:19
Speaker
um i didn't have a home or I had to stay in my home for, yeah, for the whole time we were there. But we, I remember not wanting to go to my own farewell party.
00:37:31
Speaker
And not being able to tell the people that um were in my running group and community, ah like the date that I was leaving, i they'd be like, oh, when do you go? And I'm like, yeah, sometime in December, um knowing that it was two days away, purely because I was so devastated to to leave them.
00:37:51
Speaker
um I feel like moving around continuously, um so my partner's been in the Defence Force for 20 years. over 20 years now. So we've moved around, i think think we counted 13, 14 times or whatnot or different homes maybe.
00:38:08
Speaker
um and But my challenge of moving around with kids was, or even before that, was find a group of people who like to do what you do. And for me that was running. So I wanted to find a group of people who ran.
00:38:24
Speaker
um And, yeah, I would do research before we left and I'd join Facebook groups and that was just a matter of going for runs with a few different people in a few different running groups and then finding who your people are um and then never letting them go. Yeah.
00:38:39
Speaker
um And I would do that every time we moved, find a new group of people, um get so attached to them, think there was never anyone better and then be devastated to move, move, find a new group of people, think the world of them, never want to leave, do the same thing again. And i i am, yeah, very lucky to say that I've actually never found myself.
00:39:01
Speaker
a place where I couldn't find a group of trail running legends that I've felt so connected to and just happy to be around. Now that you guys are down in Orby, which is where you grew up, and you've been here for how many years now?
00:39:16
Speaker
Five years. So the essentially the third posting for Ray. Do you think that you're going to be ever having to move away again or is this very much where the forever home is now?
00:39:27
Speaker
That's been um an interesting conversation at our dinner table because I'd like to Like i I actually really enjoy it. um I'm not sure my kids how – how they enjoy it. They've been fine as they were younger.
00:39:41
Speaker
I'm sure sure when they get to be young adults, they'll tell me if we've ruined them. But the um I've really enjoyed the experience of moving around ah the country and getting to know people and seeing different places. And I feel really grateful for that.
00:39:57
Speaker
um I'm pretty sure um my husband has found the place that he wants to be. um and And I agree. Like I grew up here. My family is here. um sarah Everything I need is here. I can get To Melbourne, I can get to Sydney, I can get to the snow, I can get to the mountains, I can get to the beach.
00:40:17
Speaker
um Yeah, I don't see us moving anytime soon, but I would i would never say never to opportunities that popped up.
00:40:28
Speaker
Yeah. someone wanted to send us to Chamonix for 12 months, I'd never say no. Okay. I was going to say selfishly, I obviously don't want that to be true, but if you happen to go to Chamonix, then at least we have a a good excuse to go over there. absolutely.
00:40:41
Speaker
Is there a particular memory of places you've lived that really stands out when you think back to Canberra or Townsville or the other houses you've lived in? Lots of different ones, but all for really different reasons.
00:40:54
Speaker
um but And I guess just in different phases of life. Like when we lived in Perth, I wasn't... I wasn't a huge runner. In fact, I dabbled in triathlon and i joined ah I joined a swim club. I swam with a squad, um which is impressive in itself.
00:41:09
Speaker
um ah I think there was one hill there that I knew of. um but And, like, Townsville was, like, my mountain biking era. I had my...
00:41:20
Speaker
trail running friends crossed over with my mountain biking friends and I was like wow these people just ride for half an hour and then they drink beer in the car park and this is really fun I want to do that too um and we've been to Canberra a few times um and I really i really liked Canberra there's everything everything that I needed there and I felt like it was a really outdoorsy town um but yeah same with Aubrey I really really like that too so there's no particular No particular memory, just maybe just phases of life.
00:41:52
Speaker
Yeah. The other thing you've got between Albury, Perth, Canberra and Townsville is very different climates. Maybe Albury and Canberra are probably the closest, but Canberra's quite a bit higher. When you think about going to race in other places and training in other places, what have you learned from leaving and living in those different areas?
Training Evolution and Coaching
00:42:08
Speaker
Um, Townsville was definitely the hardest place to run. um funnily enough, now I quite, I miss it. And I don't actually know how I did what I did because I remember I would do school drop off at quarter to nine and then I would come home, get changed. And at nine 30, would start my run And by 9.30 in Townsville, it is hot and humid and I remember sitting underneath taps, literally just with the tap blaring in like barbecue areas in parks and just sitting underneath the tap and just letting the water go all over me and then just carrying on with my carrying on with my run
00:42:52
Speaker
And um I don't know if that sparked the me liking running in the heat um because I like running in the heat, which is which is weird. I do not like running in the cold.
00:43:04
Speaker
So winter here has been interesting. And I can definitely attest to that. with it I feel like you'd wear gloves in summer sometimes. Yeah, i don't get hot. Moving kind of towards the running as we are 45 minutes in, haven't spoken too much about your more recent stuff. No, no, this is, this is I think the whole point of this whole series ah and and even just the interviews in general is to let people get to know you. And especially somebody that's been in the sport for a long time is a mom, is also in her forties now, I feel like haven't said that yet. So there's a whole consideration there. There's a lot of lot lessons, a lot lot of experience that's good to pass on.
00:43:43
Speaker
I'm actually reminding myself, let's talk about the fact that you are now over 40. And when you started, you would have been 30. How has your training changed over those 10 years as you have got older?
00:43:53
Speaker
um I'm probably a little more scared now. um So it oh it hasn't changed too much. I think I just know a lot more. When I first started running, I only ran three days a week.
00:44:06
Speaker
um And I remember people saying to me, oh, my gosh, how come, like, how are you doing this on three days a week? um I cross-trained quite hard um and that was a testament to my to my first um to my first coach. he He would cross-train me really hard.
00:44:22
Speaker
And that's, I think, where I learnt how to suffer. um So, yeah, shout out Kane Wolverton. um That was really um the first, yeah, goes on the stair climber and whatnot. And it was definitely a less is more approach.
00:44:37
Speaker
But, um yeah, now I think I definitely have a limit in terms of load. um and what I'm confident to do with my body. um And sometimes I don't always ah don't always get that right.
00:44:52
Speaker
um But, yeah, I think the differences are now that I'm just a bit more cautious. i I can't back up as well as a lot of the younger girls can. um Double days I find really hard unless i they ease in really, really slowly.
00:45:09
Speaker
um I'm not saying I wouldn't ever be able to do them, but even just from a lifestyle perspective, I find things like recovery really important. um Yeah, so that's how I've managed to change it, I think, is just, yeah, recover better.
00:45:26
Speaker
When i was reading the Ortra write-up about you, their last question is, do you have any advice? And the first thing was listen to your mum. yeah And the next one was to work with a really good coach who who listens and she can show up.
00:45:38
Speaker
And you've had three coaches across the experience working with with all of them. What has the experiences been like and what what do you feel like you you need as an athlete and what do you feel like other people who might be looking at a coach should be asking to find out what they want?
00:45:54
Speaker
So I've been really lucky with all of my coaches. They've all been really um amazing and as coaches do, they have my best interests ah at heart and I've learnt a lot from um each of them.
00:46:06
Speaker
um Yeah, at the moment things are things are going really good with what I'm um with what I'm doing and I'm happy with um how my training has progressed and how my body is going and i can't complain too much. um um yeah I'm finding myself on a and an Australian team, which is really cool.
00:46:25
Speaker
um So i don't really, can't even remember the question. Sorry. Oh, what should people be looking for in coaches? Absolutely. um Communication is probably the biggest the biggest one. I think I'm someone that needs um not a heap of communication. I i don't have the time to be in regular communication with someone daily, um but i do um I do overthink and I do worry sometimes. So having someone to sort of tell me, no, it's okay, it's
00:46:57
Speaker
like what you're doing is what you're doing is right and just sort of working with me through problems I think is um is really important.
Challenges in Sponsorship and Sport Growth
00:47:06
Speaker
um Yeah, I think the biggest, one of the biggest benefits you can have in a coach is um having a really good relationship with them as well.
00:47:15
Speaker
um So And as I go back through your more recent results, I'm just going them out here because I'll perform with a base for what going to say. Last year, I said, you came second at UTA 50 behind Kate Avery in very impressive race, but you did, and I'll let you expand on it, get an injury very early on into that, which you had to push through.
00:47:35
Speaker
Prior to that, you came second to Kate again at Buffalo Stampede twenty twenty k First at two bays, you had fifth UTA 50, first at Buffalo, Stampede 42, this is 2023 now. um Another first at two bays, first GSER 28 and 22, second at UTA 20, third at Buffalo 20.
00:47:52
Speaker
There's a lot of very, very impressive results in there. One of the things that I find really interesting and has probably made me way too irate on way too many occasions is the fact that you've never been a sponsored athlete.
00:48:02
Speaker
As much as you're kind of happy to, I'm really curious as to what you think you haven't done or you don't have for a sponsor to have reached out because in that time we've seen the rise of ASICs. We know that North Face has changed now, but they've had that sponsorship agreement.
00:48:18
Speaker
We've just seen Charlie go onto the international team for Adidas. And there are other brands like Ultra that are are starting to invest and they have been around. La Sportiva has been around for quite a while. So it's not like we're talking 2014 when it was really only a handful of athletes, Lucy and Blake, that were getting sponsorship. So what do you feel like you don't have or you haven't done that's, yeah, has has has led to you not being sponsored or maybe you just don't want that? That's a really that's a really good question.
00:48:44
Speaker
What don't I have or what haven't I done? um i I've asked myself a lot and I've tried, I've workshopped my way through, i guess, throughout all of these years, not necessarily um needing a sponsor.
00:49:01
Speaker
I think um there there's definitely, if I'm being honest, there's definitely been times where where I have wanted one, but I haven't really known, i guess, the right way to go about it. I'm not someone who someone that feels comfortable putting myself out there.
00:49:20
Speaker
I guess um wrongly, i always thought that if I worked really hard and I did, um worked really hard for a really long time and did some really good things,
00:49:32
Speaker
um things would come to me. um I'm learning now that that's not the way that the sport works. um so for too many years probably I sat back and um just waited, guess, rather than maybe getting after it and being a bit more aggressive.
00:49:50
Speaker
um But also that's not my personality style um and I don't like – um I don't think I ever wanted to put a run resume in front of someone and say, look how, like, look at all of these things that I've done um because, like, in, I don't know, I guess in for me in the grand scheme of life it's just running.
00:50:09
Speaker
um But, yeah, in terms of things that I that i haven't really done is, um I'm not great on social media. um I only started a social media account, I think, I only started ah an Instagram account um in May last year just before just before UTA and that was necessary like that was sort of out of necessity.
00:50:32
Speaker
um For me, that's a really, really hard one because um I'm a high school teacher and I see i see social media um as a huge problem. for some teenagers um and I have teenagers.
00:50:45
Speaker
So for me, role modelling when like face-to-face relationships and, um role modelling, responsible phone use and things like that is a really tricky um is a really tricky space. And as someone who is already time poor to invest, ah for me to invest time in social media means I need to take time out of training or family or whatnot. And people do that so well.
00:51:10
Speaker
I personally haven't managed to do that very well. So potentially as there's a lack there from from my side. But then... um But then also there's other brands that have like athletes who are also very worthy of being on their team and I don't know if I'm any more, I guess, deserving than than anybody else. um But, yeah, it's it's been it's been interesting and I try really hard not to make, um not to base my worth on how worthy someone else feels that I'm worth supporting, if that makes sense.
00:51:51
Speaker
Yeah. As you were speaking then, my next question was going to be, do you think if you had ever been sponsored, it would have changed the opinion that you had to yourself as a runner and potentially any anything any decisions that you would have made if, say, ah brand had reached out to you in 2022 and said, hey, we love what you do. We love the fact that you're a mum who's working and kicking goals and he' still able to put these performances out.
00:52:15
Speaker
I'm struggling, I'm getting emotional. with do Do you think that would have made and any any difference to, necessarily like your view of yourself from a woman worthiness perspective, but even just like how you would have pursued the sport?
00:52:26
Speaker
um For me, like I would have really loved for, like I think it's great if teams want to diversify their their team. um i I am over 40. I am a mum. I do work.
00:52:39
Speaker
And for me, like I represent a huge portion or like a huge percentage of the trail running community. There are so many mums who work that are out there getting like great results and doing cool things, um whether it's in a competitive spirit or not.
00:52:56
Speaker
So I think diversifying teams is really important because if you look at who the trail running community is, it's diverse. um But yeah, I just, yeah, I don't know.
00:53:10
Speaker
Speaking about trail running more broadly, it said you've been in the sport for 11 years now. What direction do you think in Australia, the sport could benefit from heading and what what message you think it could benefit from conveying more strongly?
Injury, Recovery, and Mental Resilience
00:53:25
Speaker
I would love for the sport to keep growing um and be supported a bit more on a on a national level in terms of um like funding for overseas um representation and whatnot.
00:53:40
Speaker
But sort of first and foremost, I ah would love for trail running to to definitely be considered a professional sport but not lose anything.
00:53:51
Speaker
ah community feel and I don't know if it's realistic to think that you can have both but yeah like I don't really know if this answer answers the question well but my most positive experiences are the ones where um people are at events and they're having like they're having fun Yeah, it's competitive but it's not ruthless and there's not too many people there for for comfort.
00:54:18
Speaker
um There's not um overinflated prices for things that you're like – which makes it unaccessible to everybody. Like I would buy my kids trucker hats from every from every single race if I could, but i can't win their $80.
00:54:32
Speaker
um So it's, yeah, i I would love for it to gain visibility whilst not staying, whilst not being inaccessible to to the wider community.
00:54:44
Speaker
No, it definitely does. And have you have you have you seen that event day atmosphere morph much in the last, 10 Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely changed. And there's there's pros and cons because for visibility, you need sponsors and you need branding and you need um world-class athletes coming around um or coming to Australia to race.
00:55:08
Speaker
um And you need you need the hype and whatnot. And um I do feel like everything is all very well-intentioned. um Sometimes I do feel for some of the back of the pack or mid-pack races in these really big events where um they want to compete just as hard for themselves as well just because they're not considered elite doesn't mean that they don't have ah their own personal goals and want to run hard and it's It's really tricky when when races have thousands of people in them.
00:55:38
Speaker
um And I'm not saying I know the answers. I don't know the answers to these, but it has definitely changed. And even if we just look at races like Buffalo Stampede, um like I was at the original Buffalo Stampede and like now it's it's grown um so much more it's a it's a whole weekend and um people travel from so far and um and there's prizes now which is really great and and I think those changes are really are really positive um yeah I just I just hope that yeah they they can still keep some elements of of community feel as well
00:56:15
Speaker
One of your closest friends that I've been introduced to is Meg's and she is the prime example of the majority of the running space. If I was to have asked her that same question based on the conversation you've had with her, and maybe you can't answer answer this, but what do you think she would say she would want to see the sport to...
00:56:33
Speaker
do or to increase or to to change emphasis on? and Oh, that's really good. Megs is amazing. um She's my um my amazing, wonderful friend who has four kids herself.
00:56:44
Speaker
um She's in her 50s and she just loves coming along to the events. She um takes photos out on course and eats barbecue shapes and is just um a bundle of joy and positivity she'll like send text messages she's like i'm just heading up mix track or i'm just doing this i'm like you need to be running like we're not running but you need to be moving put your phone away um but the fact that she has so much fun doing what she does is is amazing um i think i
00:57:15
Speaker
ah We've had some conversations in the past where um she just wants to feel like she belongs there and feel like included. um And I don't think she's ever not felt that way.
00:57:27
Speaker
um And, yeah, hopefully it continues that way. Okay. I've alluded to talking about UTA last year about three or four times now, so I feel like we finally should get there. On the face of it, you had an incredible run. Kate, we know, is probably the best in and in the country, granted she's not Australian, but the best food person who lives in the country at that distance on trails.
00:57:47
Speaker
I'm sure when she comes back and builds back through pregnancy, she will once again be right there and probably better. So to come second to her was an incredible performance and you beat some incredible ladies as well. But there's a lot more to that story.
00:58:00
Speaker
Can you kind of run me through what happened on that day, but also touch on how you find the mental strength to push through the things that you have pushed through? Oh, the answer is I don't know.
00:58:12
Speaker
um And I don't really know when it when it, happens and when it doesn't. um Okay, UTA that day. that That was crazy. I had put UTA as my A race for that year. I had sort of Buffalo as my B race and UTA as my A race because the year previous to that in 2023, had Buffalo as my A race.
00:58:35
Speaker
And then i sort of had UTA as my A race as well, but I realized that I couldn't I couldn't do personally, i couldn't do both well. um So I wanted to reverse them a little bit and throw all my eggs in the in the UTA basket.
00:58:50
Speaker
um I felt really relaxed that weekend and I was actually, I'd had a really, really great training block and I actually felt excited and I get really nervous about performances and about races and um about wanting to do a good job, um essentially ah wanting to do my best to justify all the time that I spend away from family and and whatnot.
00:59:13
Speaker
um And I remember I was missing my son's birthday. So he was down in Aubrey and I'd travelled to UTA. It was his 12th birthday. And I, yeah, made the decision to to not be there.
00:59:26
Speaker
um I'd been dealing with a bit of a planar plate tear or sprain um since Buffalo. So it happened um in Buffalo Stampede. and And as, oh, that morning I remember actually being really chaotic. I slept through my alarm and um yeah I slept through my alarm and the people in the house with me,
00:59:49
Speaker
like didn't wake me up until about 15 minutes until we needed to leave to go to the start line. And then they like peeped through the door and they're like, SJ, we need to go. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, why didn't someone wake me? And they're like, we thought you were just in here like zenning out or like getting prepared or whatnot. um So I quickly jumped up. I threw my clothes on.
01:00:11
Speaker
i remember thinking coffee, like if I can just get a coffee and everything will be okay. um So I smashed a coffee, piece of toast and a banana, the fastest that you've ever seen like breakfast happen.
01:00:24
Speaker
um Super disheveled, super manned out of there. Remember doing my warm-up going, this is going to be disaster. What on earth? This is the most terrible prep ever. And I was nervous and panicked right from the get-go because of that.
01:00:38
Speaker
It's terrible way to start a race. Here I was the day before, like super relaxed, thinking it was great. And then, yeah, panic buttons pushed for sure. Yeah. I had a bit of a race plan which I'd worked out with my coach, Blake Hose, which was um perfection and I was really, really stoked with that. um And the plan basically was to go out hard but not not too hard and to make a bit of a move down Kadamba because at that point in my training, downhills were my strength.
01:01:09
Speaker
um I didn't really get that far before something went wrong. um Just randomly 10 Ks into the race, I just, we were heading down a set of stairs and I took a step and I felt my planter plate rupture completely.
01:01:27
Speaker
Um, and it's, it was audible. Like I, I, I mouthed a lot of words, um, to myself. Um, and as you do sort of keep running and sort of assess the damage, but I,
01:01:43
Speaker
Weirdly, I think i I knew exactly what had happened and I knew how much it hurt, um but i didn't I didn't give it enough airtime to consider stopping.
01:01:54
Speaker
And somewhere in, I don't know, a three-second space, I decided to completely bank it. and carry on and not really think about it again until the end.
01:02:07
Speaker
There was a few times in the race I remember taking a step and needing to swear out loud really loudly um because of the pain that was in my foot. And then ah I'd feel the pain, I'd swear, i'd acknowledge it, and then I'd park it and move on.
01:02:24
Speaker
Um, so for me to have only been, i think it was like 90 seconds, two minutes behind Kate or something like that. Um, in that event on a completely destroyed foot, I, I have no idea how I did that. I remember crossing the finish line and not being able to wait there.
01:02:42
Speaker
Um, and I went straight into a moon boot pretty much um afterwards. um My foot swelled up like a balloon, couldn't take a step and yeah, then and the recovery started.
01:02:55
Speaker
So that was significant. It makes me wince just hearing that again. And yeah, I completely forgot about the whole waking up with 15 minutes to go because my head remembered the plan to play rupture. But the recovery process, and we've always touched on the deciding whether you should or shouldn't enter for for the world's team.
01:03:16
Speaker
The recovery from a plan to play tear is pretty intense and it often requires surgery as well. You didn't end up going down that route. can you yeah and And you work with an incredible podiatrist here in town.
01:03:29
Speaker
Can you describe what that recovery was was like and taking what would be seen by quite a few as an orthodox approach? um So the nail on the head there. Worked with an incredible podiatrist in town um and, yeah, just managed me weekly through that um from being in a boot,
01:03:49
Speaker
Well, first of all, getting the scan and um actually understanding that it was there was a four millimetre complete, um complete tear there, which wasn't fun to hear, but at least we knew what it was.
01:04:00
Speaker
ah Originally, I was worried it was a stress fracture, but that ultimately would have been way better. Um, but yeah, I, I worked weekly with, with Tim, um, my podiatrist and he just showed so much care. We rehabbed, I had exercises, like first of all, there was like the, the moon boot period and then the, um, the walking around in stiff-sealed shoes period. And, um, I wore carbon plated shoes for ages just to stop a bit of four foot flex.
01:04:28
Speaker
Um, and yeah, I rehabbed like, uh, A champion.
Preparation for World Championships
01:04:34
Speaker
um Yeah, I was really, really happy with the progress and I think um Tim was as well.
01:04:40
Speaker
um And um yeah, we just got after after the swelling went down and we managed to get the pain down to sort of like a two, three out of ten, then we started our return to run.
01:04:53
Speaker
And um yeah, everything went good from there. When you have an injury like that, and unfortunately your past few years have not been plain sailing either. At any point are you going, you know what, SJ, this isn't worth it anymore?
01:05:05
Speaker
Every morning. um Yeah, there were definitely some tough times there where I just wasn't sure. I wasn't sure what I was doing. I'm like, is this the body, like the universe trying to tell me I'm too old, I'm past it, you've been doing this for too long, um it's not worth it.
01:05:21
Speaker
um but then I'd always try and um bring things back to what do I love and i was always happy with I don't I remember saying actually to your wife Siobhan while we were on run I remember saying to her I don't care if I never race again but I want to run um and it was all about getting back to running it was never about getting back to racing um and then once I got back to running it was getting back to running well and then getting back to running in groups and then Like one thing just, yeah, um rolled from another.
01:05:53
Speaker
And when people that that I coach, when they have injuries, especially recurring injuries to a similar area, the hardest thing is to build the confidence back in your body and to trust. And especially when you're talking about an ankle or a foot, to actually put your foot on the ground on an unstable environment like we do on trails. And then we talk about something like hang Frank, which we know now is going to be incredibly technical. Yeah.
01:06:13
Speaker
it's a real big physical and mental barrier. How have you found that experience and kind of where are you with trusting your body again? um So the trust has taken a little while to to build up because I definitely, um I had some niggles at the beginning of the year with a little incident that are happened at the beach playing with my i with my kids on New Year's Day. um Yeah, so hurt my foot um just with my thong that curled underneath itself on a sand dune and I sort of went over and
01:06:44
Speaker
um hurt my opposite foot. it um But yeah, the trust the trust comes back and I think once you get back into running and you get back on trails in a really friendly environment with friends and it's all about fun and you just practice these things, then the the little parts about being um worried or fearful um definitely don't don't pop up as much.
01:07:11
Speaker
So, yeah, I just call them confidence runs and they're just going out with mates and trying to stay upright. There's definitely a fear and sometimes my goals at the end of the run is please just don't hurt yourself and that was my husband's goal for me for a while. He was like fine, go for a run but please don't hurt yourself, please don't hurt yourself um and yeah, once once you get past that then then you're back into not only, I'm like I'm not even going to think about hurting myself, I'm just goingnna and just going to go out there and and do what I do.
01:07:38
Speaker
And that is definitely a more pleasant way to to run. But yeah, it's hard to build that trust in yourself again. And I don't have the right answers. I constantly question whether or not what I'm doing is a good idea, but you can only try, right?
01:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And the other side of this is you're trying to build a confidence back in your body whilst you have something really big like a world championships. It's not just like another race trying to get back to where you can kind of skip it. And it does, we see it all the time. People never make it. We talk about Western States or UTMB.
01:08:09
Speaker
People do everything they can in their training to be as fit as possible then they break down before they get there. So coming from what your second half of 24 looked like and even the beginning of 25 after New Year's and you start thinking about, okay, I've got to train for world champs.
01:08:23
Speaker
What have you put as the priorities in this training block to get you ready for that day? Like what matters most? I've definitely tried to prioritise running.
01:08:33
Speaker
um As one of those, you know how was saying i can only be good at two things, I've definitely within the last three months, ah really took four months, really tried to prioritise that.
01:08:45
Speaker
um I've been making sure that I have been eating more. I've been making sure that I've been sleeping more so I've sort of cleaned up that sleep hygiene. um I've been following my training plan um and I've been really – I guess, compliant there or hopefully compliant, hopefully been as compliant as as I can be.
01:09:05
Speaker
um Yeah, I've been supplementing with things that I think I'm lacking, making sure that I'm taking iron supplements and I've Um, I, I don't know how much all of these little things add up to, but they're definitely, they make me feel good about myself in terms of I'm pretty much, I'm doing everything that I can to get the best out of myself with what I have at this time.
01:09:31
Speaker
And that's like, that's all you can really do. You can't, you can't do anything more than, than the best you have. um And I can't be at my best every day. So, um yeah, just making sure that I'm trying to pull out all the stops. But I definitely think the sleeping and eating thing is something that I've struggled with, especially eating, um just in terms of getting enough food in. I'm a busy person. I don't prioritize it. I'm not a foodie. I don't enjoy preparing food. i don't really even enjoy eating it, but I know it's got to be done.
01:10:00
Speaker
um So trying to plan for that. And actually, all my kids are on board. They're just like, can I make you lunch, Mom? Can I, like, can... Would you like some of this? Can we you know cook you up some eggs or whatnot? So everyone's trying to feed me. It's really fun.
01:10:14
Speaker
I should just keep doing this for the for the food. Sounds like worth it to me. I quite like that. It sounds great. Can I come around and they can make me lunch? Absolutely. Worlds itself, you've represented the country once. You've been offered it another time that you weren't able to take choose to take.
01:10:31
Speaker
started asking everyone what success at Worlds looks like for them because A, I don't think having a purely position goal is is ever ever helpful for 99% to people, but also being from Australia, we we aren't expected to be on podiums.
01:10:46
Speaker
As I said, I think the thing on Blake's interview, top 20 would be incredible. Australian from ah an AA perspective, we're looking for top 50%. So sort of ignoring the position side of things, what what does success look like for you when you go over there?
01:11:03
Speaker
You don't have to tell me to ignore the position side of things because I'll completely ignore the position side of things because to me that's not what's important. um My goal is to represent myself, my country, my family, my friends in the best possible way.
01:11:21
Speaker
with whatever that looks like. If that's me trying my absolute heart out on a broken foot, um blood everywhere, scrambling to the finish line dead last and that was the absolute best I had on the day, um yeah yeah okay, governing bodies might be disappointed in me but I certainly won't be.
01:11:40
Speaker
Um, so for me, success looks like, first of all, turning up to the start line, um, not terrified, but turning up to the start line, excited and ready, um and getting to the finish line through having a day where I have just gone, do you know what? That was, that was my best effort.
01:11:59
Speaker
and I'm proud.
Mental Strategies and Advice for Runners
01:12:00
Speaker
Like I'm not going to be super proud of myself if I have walked up a climb that ie know that I could run or if I sort of mentally quit. So for me, it's can I get the best out of my body and can I get a get the best out of my mind on that day? And if I can do that, I will be stoked.
01:12:17
Speaker
I will be like, I will be so happy. I'll be the happiest person ever. From the body perspective, obviously we train and from the mind perspective, we train as well because we're constantly sharpening it. But is there anything that you come back to on the race day that you either repeat to yourself or little tactics you use? I'm really leading you into this one um that you think you might need to to or put out of the ah bank there.
01:12:41
Speaker
Yeah, so I talk to myself when I when i run. um i I try and give myself a bit of a pump up, but sometimes I'm quite brutal as well. I'm like, you know, far out, put yourself together and like, what are you doing? and you know And, know, maybe a little more aggressive than that. I'm not quite sure, you know, what's his podcast rated, who's listening.
01:13:02
Speaker
um But I definitely try and rally a little bit of motivation might have seen in the interview but I often say you're okay like especially when something's really hard I'm like you're okay you're okay and I don't actually need to say too much more than that I like I don't need to pull out you've got this or inspirational quotes although I did i did do the whole no one cares work harder um at at one stage um the cam haynes um quotes um which really worked for me in in one um in one particular race and
01:13:35
Speaker
And also another one I've used is sort of like a Top Gun theme, like Don't Think, Just do um which i I sort of like to pull out as well, especially on a downhill, Don't Think, Just do um There's lots of kids ones in there, Peter Rabbit fans, Rabbits Are Brave.
01:13:52
Speaker
Sometimes I just, anything that I can sort of um tell myself that doesn't make me feel crap um i find you really helpful and i don't care who's around i'll i'll talk to myself as as much as ah as much as i need to
01:14:10
Speaker
I've big smile on my face right now. just i've I've been witness to SJ saying those things out loud. So it's it's fantastic. Closing us down, if you were to talk to somebody who's just coming to the sport, and and this can be they've got competitive ambitions or they just want to enjoy trail running.
01:14:29
Speaker
What is the the thing that you think is most important that they focus on and remember and don't lose sight of as they spend a year, five years, 10 years pursuing trail running?
01:14:39
Speaker
Running is fun. um And that's super easy to say because sometimes I lose sight of that myself. I was trying to actually repeat it on the training weekend um that we just had with the girls. Like we'd sometimes randomly just be like, running so fun, right? Like running is isn't running fun? And we were hurting.
01:14:56
Speaker
um Like it was um we definitely needed that that positive self-talk. But ultimately most of us are not doing this for a job. Like we're we're doing this as a hobby. We're doing it because we love either competition or like sickly we love suffering or or whatnot but um we're doing this because we choose to do it so thing that I would say to not lose sight of is is like I don't mean to be like what's your why but like why why are you investing so much time in this if you hate it um and if you are sort of starting to hate it maybe maybe that's sort of time for a break or just less racing or um a different a different trail or different terrain because
01:15:36
Speaker
um yeah, running learninging is fun.
Podcast Conclusion
01:15:40
Speaker
think that's a pretty good way finish it up. SJ, thank you for doing this. This has been was saying ah before we started that knowing you so well, I really wasn't sure where to take this. And then I've realized that we've been going for over 75 minutes.
01:15:53
Speaker
Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it and have the best time at Worlds. um Thank you for having me. And yeah, for anyone that listened to this the whole way through, well done. And thank you. Hopefully that wasn't too hard and painful.
01:16:06
Speaker
And yeah, hopefully I can represent you with um a massive smile on my face. I think I can say for for everybody, there's a lot in this episode that will take away from. I think this is going to be one of the ah the more valuable ones listen to. So thank you. i really appreciate that.
01:16:19
Speaker
Thank you so much for listening to that episode. I really hope you enjoyed listening to SJ and hearing her story. As I said in the intro, that one was a bit of a special one for me as SJ is such a close friend and getting to do it it in person.
01:16:34
Speaker
Even knowing her, there was a lot more in this conversation than I expected and I've taken away a lot for my current and future self. So I really hope you are able to do the same if you have enjoyed this conversation with sj and any of our interviews recently please do give us a five-star review wherever you listen and consider sharing us with a friend or on your socials it really means a lot when we know that especially these interviews with our amazing australian athletes are getting good traction good listens and people are sharing and getting invested in their journey again thanks so much for listening and we will catch you on the next one