Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 75 with Blake Turner: WMTRC Course Insights, Recovery, and Doping in Trail Running
0 Plays2 seconds ago
Welcome to Episode 75 of Peak Pursuits, your go-to podcast for trail running in Australia and beyond. This week, James is hosting and is joined by Vlad and Blake Turner, both live from Spain as they prepare for the Canfranc World Mountain and Trail Running Championships.
Hear first-hand their impressions of the brutal short-course profile, the art of pacing on European terrain, and how they’re balancing training with life abroad. We also dive into recovery strategies after ultras, the recent doping controversy shaking the sport, and results from the Hounslow Classic and Surf Coast Century. Tune in for a wide-ranging conversation that blends course insights, athlete experiences, and big-picture issues in trail running.
Results:
Hounslow Classic | Surf Coast Century | Mighty Jarrah Trail Run | Whitsunday Trail Fest
***Don’t forget, use code PPP at https://bix-hydration.myshopify.com/en-au for 20% off Bix products, exclusive to PPP listeners!***
Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and your own trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
Follow Vlad: Instagram | Strava
Follow Blake: Instagram | Strava
James: Instagram | Strava | Website
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):https://uppbeat.io/t/mood-maze/trendsetter License code: K08PMQ3RATCE215R
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Guest Arrival in Spain
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello and welcome to episode 74 of the Peak Pursuits podcast. I'm James Sieber and today Vlad is joining me with special guest Blake Turner. These guys are both over in Spain at the moment at the Cane Frank course.
00:00:16
Speaker
How are you both doing? Yeah, not too bad. Just sitting here and looking out of the window, looking at that first climb of the course, um which is pretty extreme, but otherwise, yeah, doing well.
00:00:30
Speaker
Yeah, good. Finally adjusting to European time zones and terrain and weather. Finally coming to and feeling refreshed. Lovely.
00:00:40
Speaker
Blake, the last time we caught up for your interview, you were just about to move house. How did that all go? Yeah, it went fine because I left a week before we moved. So like I went on. Yeah, ah my partner's been back there doing all the hard lifting.
00:00:55
Speaker
ah which I'm very grateful for, but I think, yeah, when I get back, it's my time to put in the work. Yeah, okay. all Alrighty. as As far as you know, it's all it's all gone well then? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just moved out of my apartment in the weekend two days before I left, which was pretty hectic.
00:01:12
Speaker
ah But yeah, the moving, the the other parts been going pretty good, yeah. Lovely. And since you've been over, did you go straight to Canfrank or have you been going a couple of places?
Pre-Race Preparations and Training
00:01:23
Speaker
No, came, I went straight to Font, Font re Remote.
00:01:27
Speaker
um I was probably one of the earliest ones there. um And then people started trickling in afterwards. So I had 10 days in Font, ah which was, I think was was enough. um It's here, yeah, it's really nice being here.
00:01:41
Speaker
um It's completely different scenery and and trails. What makes you say that Font was enough? ah Well, I don't know. b ah To me, I think Font, I went to Font for the Attitude. um and you have to kind of search the trails out as opposed to running from your door. I think some people would say different.
00:02:00
Speaker
um It's different scenery, terrain as well. It's a little bit more barren, sparse. ah You're also starting up high, so you've really got to go down lower to try and not feel those effects of the the altitude.
00:02:14
Speaker
um And the town, it's it's <unk> decent, but it's not like one of those quintessential European towns you might be used to when you come over here um it's like a road runnery kind of road cyclist triathlon place too that kind of yeah but um no it was good for the but yeah i'm i'm glad i'm here now well what took you there Great question. I was looking for somewhere in the Pyrenees to stay because they didn't want to be at this location for the whole time I was here. let was coming in like three weeks earlier, a bit more than three weeks earlier, and I didn't want to just be in the one location because i think that would be get a bit much. So I couldn't find a logical place, and I wanted somewhat attitude just for a mental aspect, and a few people were chiming in with font, and I looked at it. I said, okay, yeah, it kind of fits the bill.
00:03:04
Speaker
relatively inexpensive for Europe. um So yeah, I gave it a go I hadn't been before. So yeah, tick it off. Okay. Doesn't sound like you'll were going back. ah i I would if there was a group of people going again. Probably not solo, but it is ah it is a good, I suppose, if you wanted to go for attitude. Like i've been to a few places like Teen, Zamat, Sassfe, a few places. um Probably cheaper, a little bit more chill.
00:03:33
Speaker
um Yeah. Yeah, cool. you say you've been to Sassfe? Yeah. Yeah, ah but I went in 2022, I believe. I did before the Skyrunning World Champs. I went up to Saas Bay and did couple-week block there, which treated me really well.
00:03:50
Speaker
yeah i think it was Yeah, that's probably my favorite spot to do a bit of attitude. that That's the town that doesn't have any cars, isn't it? kind of ah No. Yes, correct. There's a parking lot out the front, but it's all within walking distance. but You can drive up to it.
00:04:06
Speaker
yeah um Yeah, but it's super, super easy. Like they got chairlifts going all year round and um yeah, I think it's a little bit more accessible, slightly cheaper than like Zermatt or maybe some St. Moritz or whatnot.
00:04:17
Speaker
But yeah, super nice. so like how we're comparing the ah slightly more financially accessible Zermatt and St. Moritz. and Yeah. Yeah. ah yeah No, that's cool. It's a satisfied somewhere.
00:04:31
Speaker
um was ah i grew up as as a skier and for, i don't know, five, six years or so, we'd spend at least two to four weeks through summer because they've got the glacier up top. And I would have been, i the last time went, it would have been like 12 or so. So it's a little bit foggy in the memory, but I just, I remember being very, very pretty and very like,
00:04:51
Speaker
quiet because there were no cars in town. But have you ever been Vlad? No, no, I've been to a couple of those towns where you park you drive up there, you park your car and then um there's no cars in the town. um But yeah, I haven't been to that one.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah, cool. How's life post UTMB treated you, Vlad? um Really good. I mean, that UTMB Expo Week is like the hottest week of the year for me.
00:05:15
Speaker
um So yeah, kind of just getting back into training, trying to bank in a couple of longer runs, catch up on emails. Like the first few days, I was just catching up on emails and then the last few days has been a bit more um relaxed and yeah, just trying to see the course now. So I had a chance to see the whole course in two days, which was good and get a bit of confidence from knowing what are you going to be up against in, in 11 days?
00:05:43
Speaker
Um,
Post-UTMB Reflections and Expo Challenges
00:05:44
Speaker
and yeah, the town is, is, It was pretty quiet when we got here, but then the teams have slowly they started to arrive. um And yeah, it's cool vibe in this and this little town right now.
00:05:56
Speaker
Sounds weird. Before we ah come to hearing, because I'm super interested to hear hear what you guys are experiencing there, I'm curious with UTMB, it seems to just be getting bigger and bigger.
00:06:07
Speaker
And can't remember where I heard it, but there was, or maybe I think I might have read it on one of the newsletters subscribe to, that they're thinking that, from a vendor's perspective, like Bix going there, it's almost becoming potentially not not relevant. It's like the big brands it works for.
00:06:24
Speaker
And then the smaller ones, they're not able to actually get enough attention because everyone's doing a group run, everyone's doing coffee, everyone's doing a bar and et cetera, et cetera. Is that what your experience is? Yeah, yes and no. I mean, definitely the big brands are spending a lot of money on being on getting big space and and you know spending a lot of money on on the visual side of how their booth looks and the activations and all that.
00:06:49
Speaker
um But we I mean, for us, we still get the value that a lot of people can try our product. And in the end of the day, it's almost like a break even event for us.
00:07:01
Speaker
because yeah, we do sell a bit. Obviously it's a very expensive exercise and it gets more expensive with every year. It's not just the um price of the booth is the price of accommodation. The price of everything just goes up by a few percent every year.
00:07:16
Speaker
um But yeah, you're right, it is pretty saturated. um There's a, you know, the big nutrition players are pretty big right now, you know, SAS, Precision, NeverSec, and a second they're multi-million dollar companies and it's not easy competing against them with, you know, ah with you know being a small brand. But yeah, i still see the value, to be honest.
00:07:39
Speaker
um Yeah, ah it is getting harder. Like you feel that the expo is getting bigger, but there's not more runners. You know what i mean? Like obviously the the the race has been full for the past few years that we've been going there.
00:07:53
Speaker
So there's more vendors, same amount of numbers. So you do get technically less people see your brand. um But at this point, it's still, yeah, i still believe like it's worth it and probably will be going back next year. um Yeah.
00:08:10
Speaker
I don't know about the future, but yeah, I think it just comes down to how much they will keep increasing the price the booth of, you know, of this whole week.
00:08:21
Speaker
um But yeah, for now, next year we'll be there. and yeah, we didn't do ah activation run. We did an activation walk. um We just went for a quick, like literally on the Monday. So like the first day of the expo before too many people got there.
00:08:35
Speaker
We just did a quick coffee, meet up and and that was yeah because i thought there would be so many activation runs and there were like you know and brands are putting a lot of money on those activation runs and um yeah it feels very similar to yeah they kind of all did the same thing um but yeah we'll see i think next year will be a bit different because i think knack won't be the title sponsor so we'll see probably be more than no decision or osas is the title sponsor um the nutrition title sponsor there
00:09:07
Speaker
So it's probably gonna be a bit different there. But yeah, it was good for us this year. Like, you know, we got to launch umm some some of our new products and a lot of people got to try our gels. We sold out out of a couple of things. So yeah, positive experience for us.
00:09:22
Speaker
So we're not gonna see UTMB by Bix in 2026? Too expensive. We did get the email from them, but it's a little bit, yeah, out of our price range. Yeah, I can imagine. and do yeah yeah think whatever you're thinking, can just triple that.
00:09:37
Speaker
Oh, geez. Okay. Yeah. it's That's, so does that mean, cause NAC is with UTMB for that like all 50 of their, their races. So does that mean they're no longer going to be the nutrition sponsor for the whole thing?
00:09:50
Speaker
Well, I'm not, ah yeah. So I think their contract is finishing this year. So UTMB has been reaching out to nutrition brands for the interest. I think they kind of, they're hoping to get one big one for the 54 races that they have.
00:10:03
Speaker
If not, they're going to do it originally. So that's kind of something that they've made in the email. It's like, if we can't find one for the whole thing, we'll just do it. buy races, maybe like, you know, European races, Asian races, you know, whatever. um So they might break it up to try, yeah, I guess get more revenue in you um because you can probably charge a bit more by doing it that way.
00:10:25
Speaker
And they will make more sense for some brands that don't want to be, they want to be in certain markets. um But yeah, even even if we would look at Asia, it would still be a little bit too much. And I don't think worth the investment, to be honest. But again, you know,
00:10:42
Speaker
it's it's I feel like Big is playing a different game. you know like Those companies just have so much money that maybe be for them it's a good investment, ah but for us it wouldn't be worth it. Yeah.
00:10:54
Speaker
Do you get the impression that from not as like just from a nutritionist perspective, but if any mid to small tier brand in the trail running space at the moment, if you're not at UTMB, you're just not going to be relevant on people's minds because all you get is the big brands.
00:11:11
Speaker
Yeah. Yes and no. You know, I think that if you are a brand that ah is is like, you know, its main target is trail running, it is worth it being there um because you are getting that connection to that big event.
00:11:27
Speaker
um But then it is like, you know, like saying that you can use that money in many other ways and get more benefits from it as well. So, yeah, it just becomes harder. I think like the entry is just...
00:11:41
Speaker
it's a little bit harder right now because it's a bit more expensive than like, let's say when we did our first UTMB Expo four years ago, it's, um yeah, it's just a bit harder now.
00:11:52
Speaker
So like newer brands will just, unless you have a lot of money behind you, yeah it's a bit hard, then you're probably not going to get the same attention. You know, you walk past the big brands, you might got the gels and the powders that you needed, then you might not even look at that little brand that little nutrition brand out there.
00:12:12
Speaker
yeah And like, I think for some brands, it's not worth it. Like if you're a small clothing brand, for example, i don't know if it's worth it. um Maybe branding, you might going to get some marketing from branding, but you're not really going to sell much product. You know, I don't, you know, nutrition probably is the one thing that sells the most in those expos because some people and need their nutrition for the race or want to stock up.
00:12:37
Speaker
on a product that they know, but most likely, you're not gonna, I don't know, buy some clothes and stuff like that at the expo. You might, but it just feels like, yeah, I mean, we were next to some other um clothing brands and sunglasses brands. And yeah, I mean, they were selling a little bit, but not as much, I think, as nutrition.
00:12:56
Speaker
Blake, when you were there last year, did you spend much time in going through the expo? No, it was like I steered well clear. Like I think I walked through like once or twice and I said hi to Vlad. That's when I met him the first time last year.
00:13:07
Speaker
And to pick my bib up, he had to walk through to go to the hall where you get your gear. ah But it's full on and it's just like yeah if you don't, I suppose if you go there and you want to try and new stuff. But if you know what you've got already, I spent probably more times in the actual shop fronts in Chamonix.
00:13:25
Speaker
where Because they've got like the the new products out and they're doing like ah sales and marketing and whatnot. So I'm trying to look for like the stuff that you can't get in Australia. yeah But for regard to the expo, it's a little bit just a lot going on.
00:13:39
Speaker
And I just yeah just try and steer clear, really, for me. Yeah, it is chaotic. like in it I think in a good way. When I was over last year not running it, I felt like that's probably the optimal way to experience it because it otherwise could be quite overwhelming. and I know from my side, I went through, like you just said, Blake, and found all the brands from a nutrition perspective that we couldn't get over here or that I'd never tried before and bought samples. And again, the the entry cost is five bucks, whereas a buying a running top is anything from 80 to 200 plus at the moment, depending on which brand you're going for. So it's a lot of easier just to pick up a few samples of of that. But yeah.
00:14:20
Speaker
but Yeah, it's just just just interesting like seeing how, because we always see see from one side from going along and participating in those expos, but actually being from the other side and being like, okay, this actually, is this worth it? But yeah.
Training and Recovery Strategies
00:14:35
Speaker
And training-wise, Vlad, how have things been? ah Did you recover all right from from your UTMB doubles? yeah no that was okay i was a bit tight on the carbs but um yeah i just got back to another big week and then started i guess slowing down a little bit as the race gets closer and um you know you kind of want it's really easy to do a lot here because it's so beautiful and the weather is good and there's a good vibe to it and the course is already like semi-marked but yeah i think that it's important to also like be smart after i've seen the course now you just have to be a bit smarter and
00:15:09
Speaker
um take it a bit easier and you know you want to go for a run with all those runners and all your friends and um but yeah it's been okay so far i just have to be smart now for the next 11 days and not overdo it because it's really easy to overdo it here oh can imagine it you know what i mean like it's not like i have yeah so i just want to go up and um but yeah Yeah.
00:15:33
Speaker
oh We haven't caught up in in quite a while. And I think the last time I was on a main show with you, you were might even be back at Five Peaks, sort of around that time, which I remember was early April or so.
00:15:46
Speaker
that You had obviously very impressive fitness, marathon PR, you're doing in those those long runs. what What were you kind of focusing on in training in that last eight weeks since you've been in in Europe?
00:15:58
Speaker
as much elevation as possible um trying to get like really steep grades so trying to look for you know climbs there are 20 plus um and then some downhills i think that it took me probably five or six weeks to get my legs strong enough for the downhills and now feel ready for the downhills but obviously you know it took a bit of time to to like not be sore the next day after a long downhill um so that was kind of the main goal again like you know if I would have lived somewhere where there were big mountains I'll probably be training a bit differently and doing more specific work but um the main goal yeah for those kind of six weeks that I've been here was just to get those kind of impact in my legs in the downhills and then just get
00:16:47
Speaker
strength in my legs that makes sense um so the fitness was there but the leg strength wasn't there um yeah but yeah it's kind of coming together now and yeah i mean i don't think it's gonna matter uh it's gonna be such a competitive race that um i could be in the best shape that i can ever be in um you'll still be tough to crack the top 50 here oh ah yeah Yeah, where you guys were saying just before we come online that you've been given the the start list and it's looking pretty pretty impressive from the name front. Yeah, I mean, it's um it's a good and a bad thing because when there's a lot of really good runners, hopefully they'll start pushing really hard and blow themselves up.
00:17:27
Speaker
um But also, yeah, it makes it... kind of brings it back to reality of how competitive those events are now. i was telling Blake that I did my first one in 2016 or 17, where they were combined.
00:17:41
Speaker
So the world, like short and long were like together and it wasn't that competitive, but now, yeah, even having two separate events, um you know four weeks three weeks after utmb still get still like you know they're still getting a lot of really good runners here um which is really cool yeah if it was me over there i would get a little bit starstruck which sounds kind of ridiculous because it's running like it's not like we're talking about massive celebrities here but it's still cool like these names that you see winning does that does that happen at all to either of you or are you just too too too cool for that i'd like so sarah alonso down the course and he And we started walking down the street like few hours later and it was a bit less exciting. It's interesting because you see like the start list coming this morning, like these like all the people you see winning like every race around the world and you don't really get to race against them a lot. And I'm like, this is like all the best runners you follow in the sport and they're all going to be this one place and they're all going to be either landing up against you or someone you know.
00:18:45
Speaker
And it's just going to be interesting to see how they operate. Um, like see whole teams and the whole team is just like lined up with people that just win every race they go in. um And it is it will be cool to like kind of mingle and see and how they how they kind of interact with the rest of the runners population. Do they stay away or do they get out and about or stop for a chat or whatnot.
00:19:09
Speaker
But um I wouldn't say star struck, but it will be interesting to see how the top end operate in this kind of event environment leading up to it and whatnot. but At the moment, everyone we've seen, which we know, like a couple of like the Philippine team and the New Zealand team and a couple of Canadians, um they're all super friendly. Everyone's just here for the same thing, just to like enjoy it and have a good time by the looks of it.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I guess it's more the, maybe Star Trek, well, maybe it wasn't the best word, but like the novelty of seeing these these names in person and being like, okay, i'm I'm not just competing in Asia or or in Australia or anymore. These guys are ah legit fans.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. yeah um Before we go on, should remember that I'm actually not on an interview here and need to talk about myself very, very briefly. So ah my my my recap is a lot less interesting than listening to these two guys talk because after about six weeks of my return to run, unfortunately, my stress fracture came back in my femur. We've since found out, unfortunately,
00:20:17
Speaker
When it first happened, I went for the tests, but it takes so long to get in to see a specialist and endocrinologist for me at that point that built back. I think I was off for 13 weeks, built back gradually.
00:20:29
Speaker
were over in Europe doing a lot of hiking, but everything felt good. Came back to Australia, had a good week. And then my leg just started aching overnight again. And I was like, oh, I know this feeling way too familiar.
00:20:40
Speaker
And then the day after I stopped running was the endocrinologist appointment. It turns out that I've got some genetic stuff that means that my bone turnover markers, essentially the bones are getting stripped faster than they're getting built, which In a way, it's kind of been good because it explains why it happened in the first place and why it came back.
00:21:03
Speaker
Like even though we did the right rebuild, it was on a weaker chassis essentially than we we knew. but So I think I'm seven weeks into round two a return to run. So think i've spent the last I've spent five of the last seven months not running, which is kind of a weird thing to say, but yeah.
00:21:25
Speaker
no no not not obviously ah ideal, but um at least we now know what is what is wrong and and there's some medication I can take to help help sort it and hopefully in the next sort of 12 months, 12, 18 months, I'll have normal bone density again and Not sure what the next period looks like. Probably, well, definitely a lot more time in the gym, a lot more time on the bike.
00:21:49
Speaker
Still running. I think it's still going to be 12 weeks and then a four-week return to run, but just a lot less running and nothing fast and probably nothing particularly hilly. So do you reckon like mentally now knowing that there is an underlying cause, it's easier to kind of make that journey back to full running as opposed to why do I keep getting injured? What am I doing? Do I just not train or?
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting one. i think the first time around i assumed that I'd just done something wrong in training. I didn't necessarily felt like I over-trained, but potentially under-recovered. I did experiment with, like I've been doing passive heat for a while and I did experiment with active heat at the back end of last year.
00:22:34
Speaker
And I definitely felt that hit my recovery pretty, pretty bad. um How much were you doing? What kind of? ah Yeah. So I was doing, so i was doing five, five doubles across the two week timeframe. So I was probably doubling four to five days a week. So I was doing three, week three, one week and two the other week.
00:22:56
Speaker
um going for kind of more of a longer term exposure rather than a real high hit. And they'd be 30 to 45 minutes where I typically start the first few minutes a little bit steady to lift the heart rate up and then dropped into...
00:23:12
Speaker
an easy kind of normal recovery effort um ironically i actually really enjoyed it it sounds really ridiculous to say but there was something i felt a bit like don't know i felt a bit like macho running around in my puffer jacket and uh it makes no sense but um it it was it was definite it it It definitely felt like the the adaptations from it from ah from an acclimatization side was much stronger than the passive heat exposure because I could then run. i think at that point it was maybe 25 degrees when I was running.
00:23:50
Speaker
And then running in the morning when it was humid and maybe 12, 13, I was freezing. like I could have been in and a long sleeve. And when was doing my double doubles without the layers on, again, I felt cold running in 25 degrees. So I could tell from that side that it was working. And that that's the reason that I was doing it because I had a ah road half that I knew was going to be hot and humid coming up.
00:24:13
Speaker
And it was kind of like, ah I'll put it in. My coach was not particularly on board with it, but I think he kind of realized that I had to just try it and see for me to then realize it doesn't work for me.
00:24:26
Speaker
But so I did, I was doing that through October, November and the that race went really badly again i think i was think i was just fried essentially um so was yeah i was wondering if there was there was a lack of recovery going in but then i didn't get the stress fracture until february um to actually answer your question i didn't i didn't have an issue mentally the first time because i've had such serious injuries from skiing in the past like i've i've had one ski crash where I ah needed a complete shoulder reconstruction on one side and a complete sort of hand and forearm but um reconstruction on the other and have had back surgery because of it and a bunch of other stuff so I know you always come back um
00:25:07
Speaker
So that made 12 weeks of a stress fracture seem very doable. The second time, i think because I got the news so quickly after it coming back that there was a reason, it never really went into that, oh, is this just going to be my life? Like every time I try and build up again, I'm just gonna have something else break. Like, what am I doing wrong?
00:25:27
Speaker
um I was working, i just started working with a sports dietitian before this happened. And so had them through this process. So I knew that the food side of it was fine. and That I wasn't like I was, he he had me,
00:25:43
Speaker
eating like two grams per kilo of protein a day and like six grams of carbs, which when you're not doing any exercise is a lot of food. So you know that there's enough substrate for the body to repair itself. So i was like, well, what have I done wrong here?
00:25:57
Speaker
But that thought was only for a day. And then the endocrinologist was just like, yeah, you you were always gonna come into this this issue. I think now it's a little bit tricky because I'm not as competitive as you guys, but I love to push myself. I love to work hard.
00:26:13
Speaker
And the means to which I like doing that is running. And so that's been taken away. And so I now have to get used to the fact that If I want to go long in the next six months, it's going to have to be on the bike.
00:26:25
Speaker
Any intensity will probably have to be on the bike. I might be able to use an uphill treadmill because the impact forces are so much lower on the bones. So maybe latter part, I can do that. um And my sports chiro, who's looking after ah me, he's like, you you are probably going to be in the gym or loading four days a week.
00:26:48
Speaker
for good now, which that side doesn't bother me because I, after skiing, I was a powerlifter and so I was in the gym all the time. So actually, I like that side of it, but um it will look very different. but before Before this, I was training 12, 13 hours and doing two sessions and really enjoying it and getting up in the hills and I don't think that will come back and that's a little bit sad, but yeah, for the most part, it's still, yeah.
00:27:15
Speaker
You can still be active, still do stuff. um Yeah, it's maybe not what i want to do in a perfect world, but it's still not. It's not like I'm permanently disabled, so you can still get out there and do it. But it's been fascinating to go through process of, okay, what actually does your head do when you are thrown into the situation and then thrown into it again?
00:27:37
Speaker
um the that The question I kept getting asked was obviously because like my full-time job as a coach and then the only other things I do is a running podcast and have a running event series in winter.
00:27:50
Speaker
So like my life is running. and And everyone was like, are you going to really struggle with coaching and podcasting and and all that kind of stuff? And it's actually been the opposite because I have all these connections to the community still within running.
00:28:03
Speaker
Losing my own really didn't matter that much, um which which was nice because I didn't think that would happen, but you never know until you're put in that situation. Yeah, just reframing you kind of your physical activity moving forward, I suppose.
00:28:19
Speaker
And then, yeah, other things outside of specifically training, I guess, too, helps. Yeah, definitely. I think the other side is we haven't had time to really stop and think too much either.
00:28:31
Speaker
um So I've got other stuff going on in life, like looking at moving house and you just, yeah, I'm sure you guys can both both equate with with work and Vlad especially with having BICs is that you don't really switch off.
00:28:47
Speaker
So it's, I know. Well, maybe you do, but ah yeah. No, I know. when i I've struggled when I've had injuries, when I've had to be off work too um because i'm i I don't sit in an office. So I had my sacral stress.
00:29:04
Speaker
I was on crutches for six weeks. ah So i really, i had not I had no training and I had no work. So i outside of that, because i was so that took my life up, I didn't really have anything else.
00:29:15
Speaker
And during those times, I struggled. And then i think from then on afterwards, every other injury would speak into different people. I would make sure that I had something else that if I did get injured and couldn't do like a lot of things in my life that I would just busy myself in something else as opposed to just being in your head with that injury. Yeah. Well, what now?
00:29:33
Speaker
So, yeah. What did you, what, what, what, if you was in that position again now, what would you fill that time with? My life's a little bit different now than it was back then. I was kind of like, I was just like by myself, like but's ah in my own head mostly, but I've got a lot of other things going on like family, ah my social commitments. um Yeah, I can busy myself in a lot of other things now, a few more hobbies and whatnot. Yeah.
00:30:01
Speaker
just yeah at that time i was just flat stick work and then spare time train but but now i think it's like all right it's not the end of the world there's there's a lot of like other things you can do as you say um to focus your energy on um and yeah just being injured a fair bit it kind of does teach you um how to kind of cope with that but it was it is hard like the first few times and it is kind of it it is hard to to kind of navigate sometimes yeah Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean, my experience is that my wife, um you know, used to be a really good trail runner and then she had a couple of injuries and she's back to like, you know, jogging now and just enjoying, you know, just her own running and a few park runs here and there.
00:30:43
Speaker
um But for a while, like, you know, she couldn't run and she couldn't race. And I just remember kind of reminding myself to like, maybe it's better if I don't bring up my running too much around her. And I still like even now, like, you know, five, six years on, um, I still like, you know, when she asked me about like, how was your run? How was the race? I kind of play it down a bit and,
00:31:07
Speaker
and not make it sound that great or like, you know, try and kind of, I just feel, I just feel like I'm scared of making her feel sad. Yeah. um So, yeah. And I know that your partner is runner, a good runner.
00:31:22
Speaker
Yeah. Is that hard being on the sidelines for her a bit? Oh, Siobhan hasn't had the, ah the easiest of, last three years really so to be honest actually i think that's what helps is that i've had a bone injury and a bone injury has a very clear treatment plan it's super simple and then assuming that somebody doesn't have an unexpected genetic default it's a like don't do anything stupid and you'll be you'll be right again um and like work out the cause was it we overloaded were you under fueling etc but
00:31:58
Speaker
For Siobhan, we now know that she has ah mild hip dysplasia in her hip, but for best part of two years, she just had this pain in her hip that she couldn't work out and it would essentially, like her leg would just lose power every time she was running.
00:32:14
Speaker
um And so because I saw her going through that process of not having an answer and the frustration and the every time that she would build up, then it would break again and et cetera, et cetera.
00:32:25
Speaker
And then more recently, she's, i mean, she raced UTA a little bit sick and then got very sick. And then we went across to Europe and that flight put her back again And then we flew from the UK to Geneva and that flight put her back again.
00:32:42
Speaker
And then later on, we went from Geneva to Mallorca and that flight back and then we came back. So she she ended up being, I think she had four rounds of antibiotics in two months because of all all of that. So there was a period where she was doing really well in the lead up to UTA from maybe June last year, June, July last year is when she found a specialist in Melbourne that could work out what was wrong. And then we've built her back really well. ah It's, I think for me, because every single day with the athletes, I'm celebrating highs and I'm supporting lows.
00:33:16
Speaker
And so ah think my brain just works in boxes. I can kind of put my self and my running into one side and just fully focus and and like enjoy and embrace and empathize with the people that the I'm working with. And the same goes for what coached on, but like even just around the house with her talking about it, like I love to hear when she's on a high.
00:33:37
Speaker
But I think if it was, what you said about your wife devlad like it being five or six years later that could be a completely different story because that's a very very long term thing yeah yeah i mean i yeah i'm just scared that like i remember like how disappointed and sad she was when she couldn't run like you know six years ago um then i'm still like always say she's jogging now and does few runs away but still yeah yeah a bit scared and And I don't want to like share too much about my running and I kind of, you know, try not to talk about it, it about it when we're at home and just in case that it would make a feel sad or, you know.
00:34:19
Speaker
Yeah. I, yeah. i mean, I, I, you know, knock on wood, I've never experienced it myself. Um, but yeah, I can imagine it being not easy and, um, yeah, I guess like Blake said, you want to have maybe something there right a away that you can focus on and you don't have to feel i think it is Sorry, Blake, you go.
00:34:41
Speaker
No, I think i think just it's practicing those mental, ah what do you what do you call it, games for those times when you need them. um It's one those things meant mentally as well. If you don't practice, you don't get good at ah the strategies.
00:34:57
Speaker
So just if you think automatically, oh, you're getting you're going to be mentally strong. It's not as simple as that. So you have to you have to kind of almost run yourself through scenarios. Yeah.
00:35:08
Speaker
When you are in good health, um both mentally and physically, I suppose, to so to prepare yourself for the for the harder times too. That's my opinion.
00:35:19
Speaker
No, I completely agree. and It's how you prepare yourself for a race, isn't it? Like what you guys would be doing, you would be preparing for, okay I'm going to do everything I can to – cool to train properly but if this thing happens in the race i know that i'm going respond by doing this and and you have to go through race scenarios to to do that um i think i was thinking about something when you when you when you said i think the other side of it is that it's so easy and i think it's probably easier for people that are getting fresher into running and they're really loving it and they've had all these positive effects, they've so grown socially, they feel better physically, the lifestyle is healthier that you really start to identify as a runner and that's who you are. And then when running is taken away from you there, it's a really big issue. It feels like a massive knock. and i
00:36:09
Speaker
Like in 2022, which is when i personally was running the best and i had some stuff going on um that, yeah, I had to take take a step back for a while. Like that hit me so much harder than now where running is something I do, is something I love, but it's not who I am. It's not what i identify with.
00:36:29
Speaker
I think that's something that you do have to like find a way to work through. with yourself to make sure that it it doesn't hit you too hard and if if and when it does go. Yeah. All right. Well, let's move on to lighter
Canfranc Course Insights
00:36:42
Speaker
topics. for ah ah Let's hear about the the course, guys. So have you both been on all the course, you said? Yeah, I have.
00:36:52
Speaker
Blake cut short a couple of the days. Yeah, I've had a little bit of a different program coming in. um So I've done – Yeah, maybe a half to a touch over a half, of course, in general aspects.
00:37:07
Speaker
But, yeah, Vlad's seen the whole thing. Okay. Well, Vlad, why don't you run us through what you've experienced? spoke to Kelly and Ben, they were previewing the long course, which obviously has some crossover, but haven't actually heard about the short course in its entirety. And Blake, the bits that you've done, maybe you can add a bit more context from your perspective. Yeah, I think like overall, it's a bit easier than what I was expecting it to be.
00:37:32
Speaker
um So that's a positive thing, I think, for me. ah Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it starts with... a long, long uphill um that you get, you know, what is it about 6k you get 1400 meters of elevation gain straight from the start. So um that's just a nice run for the forest before you get to a steep, like before you get closer to the peak, where you kind of forced to hike. So the first, would say five or six K you can actually run. I mean, it's runnable, it's steep, but it's runnable.
00:38:06
Speaker
Then you get to, um I guess, almost just like climbing on the side of a mountain where you it's rocky and and very technical. So you're not moving as quick um and it's very steep. So it's probably around 35 40%.
00:38:21
Speaker
inclined to get to the peak. um Then once you get to the top, you get some beautiful views and some crazy down technical downhill. um Yeah, that's probably a slow bit of the course. Like it's very, very rocky at the top.
00:38:35
Speaker
But as you start going down closer to the river, it's a bit more flowy, still technical and rocky, but a little bit more flowy. um And then you run down pretty much down to the bottom.
00:38:47
Speaker
And you start the next climb and that's very similar to the first climb where it's steep, but still runnable, not very technical. it's through the forest. um And as you get closer again to the second peak, which is another thousand meter climb, um you have to hike because it's way too steep. So it's again closer to 40%, 50%. wow.
00:39:07
Speaker
um oh wow mine and then yeah you get to the top of that that's the second climb um probably about 20k into the race and then there's an aid station there and then a crazy crazy downhill like this is pretty much the steepest downhill I've ever ran on um but not technical at all like a bit rocky but not like big rocks or like sharp rocks but yeah, goes down for a, for only like two or three K, but it's yeah, probably around 30 to 40% downhill.
00:39:39
Speaker
Um, that's yeah, that's a quad killer. Um, yeah. Then you get to the road, to the ski ski car park and on a road downhill. And then you start the third climb, um, which is yeah, a mixture of Rocky and runnable trails.
00:39:58
Speaker
then you could kind of get to a small peak, a smaller peak. um Beautiful views again. And then yeah some technical downhill, last little climb about three or 400 meters of hiking, too steep to run, and then a very long switchbacky way back to town. So yeah, about forty five k with of gain.
00:40:20
Speaker
six hundred three thousand five hundred metres of gain yeah we Before I came, kind of looking at the course and looking at the profile, you know I thought that the winners are going to be running five and a half hours and I'll be happy with about six hours for myself.
00:40:36
Speaker
yeah Now I think that the winners are going to be going under five hours and maybe I'll be closer to five and a half hours on a good day. um So yeah, it is a little bit bigger than what I thought.
00:40:49
Speaker
But very easy to kind of overdo it. I think it's, its you know, especially with that first big climb, you know, you're excited, adrenaline, a lot of people. um And it is runnable. Like it's not going to, if if you wanted to run 20% incline, you can because it's a soft forest trail.
00:41:06
Speaker
um You could really go hard there. So yeah, it's um going to be about holding back and not losing too much time on the uphills and hopefully, yeah, just flowing through some of those technical downhills.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Vlad's given the briefest overview I've ever heard of. I was trying my best. Like this course, I've explained to people what I've been on is like some of the most varied, like it's going to use every skill the trail runner has in their arsenal.
00:41:34
Speaker
It's not simple. um There's so many components to it. It's simple when you say up, down, up, down, up, down, half, up, down. um But...
00:41:46
Speaker
It's really varied. I think the really good runners, like the Europeans and the technical runners and the quick runners are really going find this course nice. um But there are so many places where you can put yourself in the hurt locker.
00:42:02
Speaker
I think ah I've done a semi-detailed run kind of preview of the first climb and descent, which I sent around to most of the short course people, um just little videos of, and it just, every few hundred meters, it changes like terrain.
00:42:19
Speaker
Like you'll go from something decently technical and slow, and then you open up into like a meadow, and then you'll go back into like sharp rocks, like slippery rocks. And then it's it's just really varied.
00:42:31
Speaker
um Unless, yeah, it's really hard to kind of ah comprehend Kind of, but yeah, I'm um'm with Vlad as i think it's a little bit quicker than what we were expecting coming before coming here.
00:42:46
Speaker
um we and even speaking to ah few other people um even the New Zealand team was speaking at Western Hill he goes man you guys scared the shit out of us with your podcast um like man everyone was freaking out like we thought this is gonna be the hardest race ever they're doing the short too and he's like but he's like yeah getting on the course it's kind of a little bit um but the long course might be a different story we don't know I think so i think If you're prepared um to take on all these little challenges, yeah, um you can go all right, but I think it's going to be a –
00:43:21
Speaker
a master class in pacing which is gonna get it yeah definitely because there's not really any transition points sometimes there is uh but this one is not there's a couple of flat sections but really hardly any transition points there's maybe about 500 meters of flat running in the whole course like that's little 100 meters there 100 meters there 50 meters there 20 meters there yeah yeah there's not much flat running But yeah, I really feel like, you know, it's just so easy to go from like a zone three into a zone four here yeah because of how steep the trail is. And um even on the downhills, like I think you can over push very easily and like smash your legs really hard.
00:44:03
Speaker
um But yeah, it's, I mean, like, yeah, obviously my explanation was pretty quick and simple. how But yeah, I think it's,
00:44:14
Speaker
I don't know. It's a good course. it's a good European course. It's definitely a lot different than Australia. So if you like, I guess the one thing that I did not long ago is UTA 50. It's a very different course, like, you know, UTA 50, pretty runnable and quick where this is, yeah, definitely a lot slower, a lot more hiking.
00:44:32
Speaker
It requires a lot more power and strength. Yeah, it'll be a challenge, especially with a lot of people around you. I feel like you know it's very easy to kind of like, oh, I just want to overtake this guy and you just overpush a little bit and overtake this guy that's just in front of me. like So yeah, for us, like you know obviously and Blake are not going to be fighting for first and second positions overall.
00:44:54
Speaker
um It's going to be lot about a running our own race and making sure that we can you know get the most out of the day and not you know get caught up with you know, trying to go up the first climb as as quick as possible.
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah. But didn't understand, sorry, why they had put the event on here, even though, we're like, it's isolated. is on it it's It's beautiful trails. Like, it is the scenery is amazing.
00:45:20
Speaker
Like, the valleys are narrow, steep. You get up high and the views of of the ridge lines and the peaks are amazing. Like, we get up the top of the first climb, La Maleta. I think it's a high point of our course, 2,700. And you look around and the 360 Vista ease is phenomenal. And you're kind of like like speechless almost.
00:45:41
Speaker
And then you come you go up. you're on a third climb yesterday with Vlad and you look across to that Lama letter peaking like that's so far away and but it's not really you know you're in the mountains yeah and it's really not like it's like I don't think I'm going to be taking it in too much on the run but I'm glad I'm here beforehand really soak it all in and just it's a beautiful country but I think it's going to favor them the European runners definitely Yeah.
00:46:07
Speaker
ah Something you just said then, Vlad, about because you know you're not competing for first or second, you're able to run your own race. Does it really change that much if you are competing for a win that you you do start running other people's races or you alter your style?
00:46:23
Speaker
Yeah, we talked about it yesterday, me and Blake, that when you are competing, like let's say for a top 10 or a top five, you're you're you're probably running a bit more on the edge in the beginning of the race because you want to be not in those positions, but you want to be in the mix to kind of see what other people are doing, where are they pushing, where are they holding back?
00:46:44
Speaker
Where I feel like for me anyway, kind of going into this race, I really have to run my own race. Otherwise, You know, if you over push it here a little bit on one of those climbs, you know, it's game over. you're going to be overtaken by 50 people, you know, within 20 minutes.
00:47:00
Speaker
yep So, yeah, I think just it's a different game when you're, you know, I guess... racing for a top 50, maybe a top 60. Just looking at the start list today, you know, 200 and, don't know, 220, 250 male runners in the short course.
00:47:17
Speaker
um There's a lot of good runners. So, you know, be, I'll say it out here, I'll be happy with the top 50. I think that would be a really good result, considering the amount of runners that are racing here.
00:47:30
Speaker
And um yeah, I think, yeah. Yeah, I'm with Vlad. like If you run a domestic race or or a like ah an Asian region race, you kind of know where you sit in the field and you do have that kind of luxury of potentially pushing. You're you're on that presser per serve.
00:47:51
Speaker
It could be you might blow up and and and capitulate, but then also you can hold on and you can come with that that good result. Whereas here, if you run the red line, which I think you can do at the start because everyone's going to be – flogging it up that first hill, um then if you do blow up, like, what, 200th? But if you run ah if you run a solid, consistent race, you can still have a decent result in the whole scheme of the the event.
00:48:17
Speaker
Whereas, yeah, exactly right. If you push it, what do you gain really? um yeah i air Like, really, seeing the compet competitiveness, it's it's really, yeah, next level to what we're used.
00:48:29
Speaker
Yeah, sorry. I think I should imagine. Yeah, if you overdo it in, like, you know, for me, like, let's say if I do it, I overdo it in a UTA and blow up a little bit, I might come 15th or 20th, let's say, for example, where here you could literally come last.
00:48:43
Speaker
Yeah. You know, so, yeah, it's a bit of, I guess it's just a bit more risk if you are, um you know, going to, the the risk is not really worth the reward, if that makes sense.
00:48:54
Speaker
It also strikes me that listening to both of you talk about the course that it, On some courses you can blow up and it can be frustrating, but it's not detrimental. The course kind of suits yeah blowing up to a degree. Whereas this one, it sounds like if you blow up, you are in big trouble.
00:49:11
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Because there's no flow on the course. You know what I mean? It's not like, yeah, blew up, but there's 10K of rolling hills left. No, there's like, you know, a long hike that, you know, instead of taking you half an hour, is going to take you an hour.
00:49:24
Speaker
um And the downhill is way too technical. if you If you go into this downhill with smashed legs, it's going to be super, super slow. Like it's, yeah, it's a bit different than, yeah, some other races.
00:49:39
Speaker
When you guys are both climbing, do you do you have a a grade that you would typically switch from run to hike? I mean, i to be honest, like i I'm going to be racing this race a lot more with heart rate than what usually do. So I usually go kind of heart rate field or competition where this I'll have to go like more heart rate based. it could be hiking a lot earlier than...
00:50:05
Speaker
what I would usually do in a race that might try and be competitive in. um But yeah, it really depends on the length, how technical is the climb and I guess how strong you feel.
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think in recent times, I kind of seen that that angle slope as okay, runnable, not runnable. And also I think to myself, well, you reckon someone else will be running this right now?
00:50:29
Speaker
But I think 20% is probably my limit on a race. Anything above that probably would start hiking. 20% just probably, yeah, running, running, especially in a race this long.
00:50:42
Speaker
um You can probably still get, you're still going faster than what you are hiking. Yeah, yeah, I'm guessing as well, would say it would probably change as well if you're talking about a hill that's 100 meters long versus a hill that's 5k long.
00:50:55
Speaker
Yeah, has a big difference to it as well. What's the weather they looking like? Looks like it's cooling down a little bit. So it's been a bit warm. um Well, warm, I don't know, it's kind of a different warmth here.
00:51:06
Speaker
um Obviously, up the top of the mountains, it's not warm at all. And it's really cold. but down the bottom bottom valley it is quite warm and um i mean we i was hoping for a warm day but it looks like it might be like a top of 16 17 degrees yeah um which means that that's at the bottom of the valley and and then yeah closer to you know five degrees of the top if it could be even a bit colder at some of those places especially as it gets really windy at the top there yeah So it looks like it's going to be a pretty cool... It actually has been a little bit humid as well at the same time.
00:51:41
Speaker
um But obviously, humid and cold weather is fine. It's humidity and hot weather that is hard. like But yeah, probably about 15 degrees. Why were you hoping for it to be hot? I guess a little bit of an edge for somebody that comes from a warm place.
00:51:57
Speaker
yeah Even though, like, obviously the Europeans have all went through the whole summer now, so they'll be adapted. But I don't know. I think with the heat, just a bit more of a, well, not an even playing field, but yeah, people that may be a little bit less used to it could overdo it a bit quicker. Yeah.
00:52:19
Speaker
Yeah. Is that what you want? yeah right Sorry, the race organisers, we got information through we because yeah our team asked questions, obviously, and they're more worried this time of year regarding the cold.
00:52:30
Speaker
So their contingencies are for cold weather, not hot weather. So we don't think they're going to have contingencies at day stations for hot weather, at ice, ice water and whatnot, because it did snow last year at this event at the same time of year.
00:52:49
Speaker
up high on the course. But um I think, and speaking with people, I think you're going to need contingencies, especially in the the ultra, the long, sorry, um for hot weather and cooling protocols.
00:53:02
Speaker
So I think they're going to put some um things in place because in the valleys, it's it's hot. It's hot. Once you get up the top, the breeze comes up the valleys and it really is cool once you're sweaty. um But, yeah, it does get quite warm in the valleys.
00:53:16
Speaker
I mean, mandatory gear kit is gloves. long technicals long sleeve and and long pens um yes naturally they are expecting it to be a bit cooler yeah Yeah, I mean, weather looks like it it's going to cool down a bit. So, yeah.
00:53:31
Speaker
Cool. Well, son sounds interesting. I think I'm glad to hear that it's not as bad as particularly Kelly made it sound like it was going to be. Ben ben sounded pretty excited, but also it's I think the the biggest issue they had was that they had no idea where the course was because, yeah, it's it sounds like it's it's marked at the moment.
00:53:51
Speaker
Is that right? little bit of marking here and there. Okay. It's not fully marked. Some sections are in some sections. I think there might've been some kind of a different event here.
00:54:02
Speaker
Cause I saw like an aid station up the top with like some used water bottles. Like, you know, like there's been a race here. Um, maybe that kind of an event here if one or two weeks ago, I think that the Spanish uphill championships here, like two weeks ago. So some bits of that is marked and that's part of our course.
00:54:20
Speaker
Um, But yeah, I think they will start marking because you see like um like piles of flags in different spots. So I'm guessing us getting ready to fully mark the course. And ah it was, yeah, it was not that hard to follow on the short course.
00:54:36
Speaker
There's obviously some sections that are very rocky and it's like you're just going straight up a mountain. And a lot of the times it's very easy to lose the trail, but I think a bit of marking should be fine.
00:54:47
Speaker
Sweet. All right. Sounds promising then. And if you can, like if you're coming top 50, you're coming top 25%, if not better. That's a pretty good result, especially when you consider where we're kind of hoped to be coming. So it's going to be, I purposefully kept that weekend essentially completely free.
00:55:11
Speaker
So just be following along, dot watching you guys. See how you go. when does is Is any of the rest of the team there yet? No, I did see no well i did see Matt Cregan and Nathan Pearce might have turned up yesterday, Arvo.
00:55:25
Speaker
yeah. Oh, Ian Best has been here for a little bit too for a few days. He's just been smashing the uphill course ad nauseum. ah I'm trying to find the little faster bits that he can. But, yeah, I think people are heading in towards end the week, starting next week.
00:55:45
Speaker
This episode is proudly brought to you by Bix. Bix has supported the show from the start and personally, I'm really loving the big 40 gel. Whether you're just going out for a 60 minute run and want the one gel, you're a moderate carb fueler and have 80 grams an hour, or like myself, you're trying to hit that 120 grams an hour range, it makes the maths super easy.
00:56:04
Speaker
Not only is the 40 grams of carbs, but I really like the fact there's 200 milligrams of sodium. It's a nice number that's not going to overload you if you're going high carb fueling, but it also means you don't have to carry around any annoying little salt tablets.
00:56:15
Speaker
And again, the natural flavor, I've always been a fan of that. There's no palate fatigue. The consistency is really nice and thin. It goes down super easy. so I've become a really big fan. If you want to give that a go or try out any of the rest of the range, head over to the website, use code PPP at checkout to save yourself 20% off the entire range.
00:56:34
Speaker
And with that, let's get back to the show.
Doping and Trail Running Ethics
00:56:36
Speaker
All right, we'll move on to a bit of news. So we're a bit we but kind of late to this party to a degree, but if anyone listens to this does follow the sport trail running more internationally, you will have probably heard that the winner of this year's OCC in the women's division, Joylene Chip Nguyenho, also the Sierra Zanelle champion this year and last year,
00:56:59
Speaker
She did test positive for doping ah after CO's and L. It was an in-competition test, which is the 24 hours before to the 24 hours after the competition. What she tested positive for was something called, I'm going to try not to butch this, but triamcinolone setanide, which is a cortisone steroid used to reduce inflammation. It's something that you can get a therapeutic use exemption.
00:57:24
Speaker
for it's not banned outside of competition because it is a very common thing to use whether it's topical rubbing or it is an injection to sort out inflammation um unfortunately she did not have tui she tested positive she admitted to having the injection and she's been given a two-year ban uh what i find interesting i'll just go through the facts and i'll hand it i'll i'll hand over to you guys a little bit just have a general conversation obviously we are not doping experts we we are not trying to like dive into the nuances of this conversation.
00:57:57
Speaker
um But Sierra Zanelle as a business, the company, they they have banned not only Joylene, they have a lifetime policy. So they've banned her for life.
00:58:09
Speaker
ah They've also banned her manager, who his name is Julian Lyon. He is like they run for the Milamani running. So they've also banned Milamani runners listening to ah free trail podcast. They have a and and ah podcast called rest day.
00:58:27
Speaker
And that's where if if someone wants to dive deeper into this, I really would direct you to, to there, but There was, in 2022, the men's winner of Sierra Zanel, Mark Kangogo, he tested positive for the same cortisosteroid, but also a anabolic steroid.
00:58:44
Speaker
So much more deviant, essentially, in in what he tested for. When that happened, Sierra Zanel said to... the their coach that if this happens again, you will be banned for life, not just your runner, but also so you because you are degrading the reputation of of our event and Sierra Zanelle is known to be the most competitive race in the world. When you actually look at the start list and you look at the indexes, um it is more competitive than Western States or UTMB. So they are trying to hold on to that.
00:59:16
Speaker
that status and and and that, I guess, atmosphere. So it's a fascinating conversation, I think, from two sides of things. It's the conversation of drugs in trail running, the sport that we all hold so dearly and clean and touch the environment and nature.
00:59:33
Speaker
But also it's a real conversation about equity. not just equality and that when you put yourself into Joylene's position, she's 27, a single mum, two kids living in poverty in East Africa and probably not given the education on what she's taking and and what to do and what she has to do.
00:59:52
Speaker
it's a lot It's a lot harder, I think, to just go with aggression and blame and judgment on someone someone like that. She she openly admitted to it. um And in the same shoes, I don't, until you're in that position, I don't think anyone can can really pass too much blame and judgment. It sucks for the sport.
01:00:11
Speaker
It's horrible. She was the first East African winner of a UTMB major. Tony McCown the first African winner. But the first time we saw a ken Kenyan athlete really, really take the stage and was,
01:00:22
Speaker
It is a big shame for the sport, but I think it is the more broad conversation about an education piece and and and also an equity piece within within running. That's as deep I think i can really go go into it. There's plenty that's been written up about it if if you are listening and and want to dive a lot more into it. Salomon.
01:00:42
Speaker
her sponsor also dropped her essentially immediately. And in that rest day pod, they talk about having clauses to be able to do that if they come in breach of in breach of of certain protocols. um when you When you guys heard the news, what what were your immediate reactions to it Blake, we'll start with you.
01:01:01
Speaker
don't know. I was... um in font with the group and it kind of did, was the main focus of a lot of conversation. It was like, oh, look, did you get this you just hear this? Did you see this?
01:01:14
Speaker
Or whatever. And then everyone kind of speculates, but ah it's hard to really, i don't know, I don't really think about too much. You just see the Kenyan runners as a whole on the road.
01:01:27
Speaker
It seems to be something happening in direction. part of the world. um I don't know. i don't know the story. I don't really read much too much into it. yeah It could be more involved or whatnot. It's just ah kind of, yeah, it's it's kind of upsetting in in our sport, which I'm sure it is every sport.
01:01:47
Speaker
There's been a few instances in recent history. um It does take your mind to, well, how deep does it run? um You like to think that everyone's on the level playing field, but it's it's hard. It's really hard to kind of sort through what might be happening. But ah just I just, personally, I just kind of, all right, everyone we're racing against is on the same playing field.
01:02:11
Speaker
Let's go from there. Just, I think, the best of this sport Yeah. Yeah. yeah I think that's all or you really can do. and And you want to assume it's not a cultural issue. Yes, there's obviously been a lot of doping on the roads.
01:02:25
Speaker
There's also so much more financial incentive on the roads that there's so many other questions that we go into this. And i think it was interesting that the Julian Lyon was on the record to essentially throw her under the bus so for this, which ah Yeah, I think when you've got somebody that's essentially controlling your coaching and your management, I would put the focus towards them, not the athlete personally. um But Vlad, you've obviously been in the sport for a long time.
01:02:52
Speaker
the Doping isn't isn't new. There's a lot more testing now. but What have you kind of seen in your time in the sport? um Yeah, I mean, ah you know i've obviously I'm not at the highest level of the sport, but I've only been tested twice um in...
01:03:09
Speaker
you know whatever that's been 12 or 13 years of racing um which is not much realistically but then again you know i'm not winning utmbs and stuff like that um i think also About a week before she got banned, there was another Austrian trail runner that got banned, um and another Salomon runner. Again, like kind of more, I guess, my level of racing. I think he would have finished maybe like 30th in the last world champs, got suspended for doping as well.
01:03:38
Speaker
So I think it is like, you know, happening. even like not just the people that win UTMB, but also those, you know, I guess second tier athletes doing it as well.
01:03:50
Speaker
um I think it's just good that there's, I mean, there should be more testing, you know, a kind of, we did talk about it with Blake a few days ago that they might, you know, they should have like a pro trail runners thing where you are,
01:04:04
Speaker
if you want to race for for prize money in the big races now, you have to do X amount of tests a year outside of competition.
01:04:14
Speaker
yeah Even if it's like 10 tests a year spread out, like you know six weeks apart, it will still put some people off. And it's not going to stop it, definitely not going to stop it, but it would definitely decrease the amount of people that are doing it.
01:04:30
Speaker
I don't think there's probably not enough testing and you know, the prize money in UTMB now probably justifies, you know, a lot more people kind of going, yeah, I can, I can actually win a decent amount of money here.
01:04:41
Speaker
It's worth the risk. Um, I think, yeah, to be, you know eligible for prize money you just have to do 10 12 don't know five tests a year even like six tests a year um anything that will kind of decrease the amount of people that are doing it because definitely people are doing it and um you know it's a very small percentage of people that are getting caught because only doing it you know very close to competition in trail running um obviously it's a lot different in road running where they test a lot more out of competition and um
01:05:14
Speaker
you know, trail running, we're just a little bit far behind now. But, you know, it is a big sport now. That's not just the prize money. It's also the sponsorships are getting bigger and bigger. And um yeah, just a shame that, you know, it is happening in this, I guess, you know, small sport of trail running.
01:05:31
Speaker
But, you know, whenever there's more money, there'll be more cheaters. And that's not just in sport, it's in everything in life. So yeah, just I think we just have to do a bit more to stop it or slow it down at least.
01:05:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Again, listening to to to Free Trail, but essentially they're saying that the testing is astronomically expensive and there is no body to sanction ACT for for the out-of-competition testing.
01:06:01
Speaker
Typically, it's World Athletics that will run it through through water and like that they'll they'll subsidize the the the programs. Yeah. And apparently have previously said that there's no there's no doping on a large enough scale in trail running and therefore it's not going to get any attention from World Athletics. I did read read an article um that was done with, think it was Isabel Paletti, the daughter of the Palettis who who or were the presidents of UTMB.
01:06:31
Speaker
and that there is a conversation going on between World Athletics, Golden Trail World Series and UTMB World Series that is trying to to kind of get to a solution where there is a wet there is whereabouts, there is out of competition testing.
01:06:44
Speaker
um I think the reality of that is is maybe that there's a it will start small, like a very small pool. There might be one or two tests a year, but at least it becomes and and a bit of an incentive because they say, Vlad, when you've got the sponsorship monies coming in now, like,
01:06:56
Speaker
seemingly at least there's there's some quite lucrative, at least in the in the States and essentially some of Europe sponsorships now, like you can actually make a living doing this, whereas you couldn't in the past and you're seeing road runners come across or track runners or even people doing doing a combination of both. so yeah hopefully Hopefully it's something that we can cut before it becomes too systemic and we don't hear more and more people, but I'm guessing if we have more testing, we're going to hear about it more and more and more.
01:07:27
Speaker
In terms of... what you guys take from a supplements perspective or if a doctor a doctor prescribes you something, are going on to global DRO and checking the the supplements or have have you been given much education about supplementation use?
01:07:44
Speaker
No, I suppose the first that I kind of really came into knowing ah more about this was last year for the Asia Pacific where we had to do the AA training ai ah Education. Education courses, correct, doping and whatnot.
01:08:02
Speaker
And then from then, i kind of, ah pretty much check everything that is a supplement or I get prescribed or creams or whatnot to say, is it safe in sport? I do ask the questions from now on.
01:08:14
Speaker
um And even ah last week, oh, sorry, before I came, there was something, i can't remember what it was. Oh, it was a gel in a running store, specialty running store. Oh, it was a protein powder, sorry, in a specialty running store. And i I'm like, oh, I'll just buy this for when I go overseas.
01:08:28
Speaker
And I looked at it back and I didn't have safe in sport. I didn't have anything. And I asked ah the proprietor, I said, is this safe for competition? They said, well, if it's not on there, then I would buy. suspect no so then i just put it back and i said it's not worth the risk even though i'm a very low risk of being tested i did get tested last year at asia pacific and it does come into your mind when you're sitting there even though 100 like i've taken nothing i didn't even take supplements back then be like well have i had something contaminated or or it yeah it is pretty daunting you do have to kind of really think about it
01:09:00
Speaker
if you're at the top end, I think. yeah um it is it's It should be front of mind, especially someone that is competing in those massive events for first place.
01:09:11
Speaker
You should know, um have a knowledge of what you can and can't do. Yeah. I mean, yes, obviously, as as as as so as as as a brand, as a nutrition brand, you know, we we had our gels are batch tested now.
01:09:29
Speaker
But that's definitely something we couldn't afford at the beginning when we launched the company. You know, it's it's pretty expensive to get batch tested. It's, again, it's... It's something that small companies or like startups without big investments behind them probably won't do and it's not worth it.
01:09:47
Speaker
um we kind of went to the process of going through batch testing, um, six months ago, once we started, you know, having athletes in that actually get tested quite regularly. Um, but yeah, it's, it's also, you know, it's an expensive exercise and, um, I don't know, from,
01:10:10
Speaker
from conversation with manufacturers and stuff like that it's a very small amount of stuff that could happen in sports nutrition you know it could be like a one one percent of all cases could be linked to it um so yeah i don't know where it's I mean, we we kind of going to go through having all our products batch tested, but it's not cheap. So we started with the gels and then we're going to slowly work our way through all our products. But um I personally don't look at it.
01:10:45
Speaker
Like I supplement with supplements from Coles, you know, like really basically out of like zinc and magnesium and vitamin C. You're probably in trouble then.
01:10:58
Speaker
Yeah, i don't I don't check it, but yeah. I don't know. I think yeah it can be a bit too much at times where you start getting scared of what you eat. it's So it's not only supplements, right? It could be, you know, eating somewhere. Burritos.
01:11:13
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I don't know. It becomes a bit too much. I personally don't. But then again, I don't buy supplements online. only buy them. literally at Coles and Woolworths.
01:11:24
Speaker
yeah I guess if you are going a bit deeper and you get some tropical supplements, you might want to make sure that they are. But I think you are sticking with the basic vitamin C and magnesium and zinc,
01:11:36
Speaker
should be okay. And yeah again, this ah doesn't really affect too many runners out there, you know? So like I've been tested twice, but like I've been tested once, um you know, it's, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. It's not a conversation that's relevant for probably all, but maybe five of the people listening to this show right now, but it, it is interesting. Cause like you said, an Austrian guy about your level got, got done. So like, it's a consideration that people in Australia in trail running are having to, having to make. And,
01:12:07
Speaker
even if you are just a general consumer and you want to know that the product you're test you are consuming is safe and like the the chance of contamination is so so small but potentially you just like to have that that sense of security um are you glad you happy to say how much it costs to go through batch testing um i'll give a rough number because i wouldn't be able say like because there's like membership fees there's barcode kind of um um like yearly payments are you're going to make for every product there's by flavor and so on um or like you know being caffeinated not caffeinated but
01:12:46
Speaker
okay ah And also depending on how many batches you do, because every batch has to be sent to them and tested. But yeah, I would think that, you know, if you if if, you know, we manufacture like, let's say six batches a year, for example, could be close to like 15 to $20,000 a year. Australian?
01:13:06
Speaker
Yeah, for that, for one product. So that's just for the gels, for example. So I guess if you want to do it for your powders and your effervescent tablets, You know, it could be, I don't know, close to 60 to 80,000.
01:13:18
Speaker
Again, if you're obviously if you're a big company, it's nothing for you. It's nothing. So obviously more batches, it's going to cost you more. um But yeah, I mean, like maybe Morton pays, i don't know, a quarter million dollars a year, maybe half a million dollars a year for that.
01:13:37
Speaker
I don't think it's that that much for them. But, you know, if you're a small company and you got to pay 30,000 a year, um it is a bit, you know. Yeah, significant.
01:13:48
Speaker
One of the things that adds up, like, you know, there's other million costs that go into into it all and suddenly adding, you know, another thing um does make it a bit challenging. And that's what like.
01:14:00
Speaker
You know, you kind of do it for a peace of mind and for, I guess, the Olympic athletes are using your product. But realistically, like, you know, I think if you are consuming products that are manufactured in established countries, to say it like in a nice way, most of the time you are safe and, you know, um yeah.
01:14:24
Speaker
I don't know. It is. Yeah, wait wait we are doing it. But I know a lot of companies aren't doing it. And most most companies are not doing it because of the cost of it and not being relevant. You know, a lot of jail companies don't have it because, you know, they're being used by athletes and maybe not getting tested or don't really care.
01:14:48
Speaker
ye Yeah, no, it's it's it's fascinating. I assumed it wouldn't be cheap. And you're right, that's that's quite a significant expense for a smaller company to to deal especially if you've got, like, let's say you've got five different flavors of the same gel, would each have to be tested or are they considered the same product? so Yeah, so each will get tested.
01:15:09
Speaker
um But if it's exactly the same ingredient and only the flavors change, it might be like a little bit cheaper. So it's not a complete product. um But all will still have to be tested and you still.
01:15:21
Speaker
So I think, sorry, where becomes cheaper is that you registered that as one product. So the registration fee that you pay for the yearly membership of having the product registered is lower, but the testing is the same.
01:15:34
Speaker
It's increased with every flavor. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty sure. Yeah. It's, it's, it's complicated. It's also like a lot of time, like, you know, I get a lot of emails from them and it's not like, you know, that much fun.
01:15:48
Speaker
so Like, you know a lot of admin work as well on top of yeah of the costs and and there's a lot of logistics to it as well. So yeah, being a small company, that's also not easy allocating that much time to it as well. It's not just the money. The joys of trying to compete or compete on the ah the big boy stage.
01:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. but Love it. or Guys, and anything that else you want to say on Joylean topic before we move on? No, not really.
01:16:19
Speaker
That is easy. All righty. Let's go into some results and then we'll have got a couple of, we might just hit one of the listener questions because I've managed to to make this one already hit. bit longer. ah So over the weekend, there were two kind of main, main races happening over in Australia.
Race Results and Highlights
01:16:36
Speaker
The first one was Hounsley Classic. This one, have you guys done this before? Yeah, I've done it a while ago. The I did it when it was in different um ownership. I've done the, I don't think it 17, might have been a bit longer. i think it was a similar course.
01:16:54
Speaker
That was probably one of my first forays into actual, that kind of trial running. And then I've done the 75, 68K course too, which they had back in the day as well. which was a bit longer than the marathon, which was with that yeah mountain sports. Okay.
01:17:10
Speaker
That valley is my favorite in the Blue Mountains. Yeah, definitely. It looks spectacular. like yeah Absolutely beautiful. yeah Okay. so in seventeen k the men's field, the big the big conversation that Brody and I had before was the Charlie Hamilton versus Leo Pedersen ended up i actually not that tight, less tight than I ever thought it would be. I think it really just puts, puts in perspective how good Charlie is because he, he won that in an hour 24, 49.
01:17:42
Speaker
Leo was an hour 28, 23 and Alistair George, who came from orienteering, think one of Brody's athletes an hour 31, 04. zero four So still very close, seven minutes separating the top three, but geez, Charlie's run was pretty impressive there. Um,
01:17:59
Speaker
Females field, we somebody we didn't even preview, Joanna Hepton. She won in an hour 44-41. Bridget Lund, second, an hour 47-50. And then Sarah Leavitt, 49 seconds behind her in an hour forty eight thirty I've just clung off it.
01:18:16
Speaker
High 30s. ah yeah Yeah, when you guys saw the result, Charlie versus Leo, is that the way around you thought it would be, Blake?
01:18:27
Speaker
Me? Yeah. It's a great question. I think Leo, I've raced him a few times on the Golden Trail and his flat speed is like phenomenal. um So I thought he was going to just – and he had something to prove, you know. um Yeah. Just pass him away on that, the lead into the first down. The first ascent is pretty runnable.
01:18:47
Speaker
pretty even stairs, and then it gets a little bit different. um I thought potentially it would have closer because we saw the result obviously waking up the next day, I think. um yeah um But it's good to see ah Charlie running um that good now.
01:19:05
Speaker
Seems like i think he a bit of time overseas. been training with the new with Adidas and to see take the next level and see where he goes from that if you can keep that fitness but yeah it's good to see some competition in these races yeah Yeah, definitely. Does it make you guys more excited about racing domestically when you know that there's going to be that that competition, that depth to the field?
01:19:29
Speaker
Yeah, i mean, I live in Perth, so that's like a big trip. Also, me and Blake were talking about it how expensive it is to um do a race in Australia if we live in Perth. But yeah, obviously, you know it's good that there's more...
01:19:43
Speaker
like, you know, high-level competition. So that means, you know, it's good for people that live close by, don't have to travel too far. Yeah, it's a changing environment, definitely. Like five or so plus years ago, you could turn up to an event pretty much and you can pretty much be certain you were going to come podium, you know, because the deck wasn't there.
01:20:00
Speaker
Now it's it's actually you've got to turn up pretty switched on um to race the guys that are coming now, yeah, which is good. Yeah. Yeah. so It wass definitely makes it exciting to to preview them for sure and to follow along.
01:20:14
Speaker
ah The women's winner Joanna Hepton. So i'm going to completely throw Joe Dorff under the bus for this one because he gave us the list of his elites and Joanna was not on there. She did win Gone Trail National Series final this year at BTU. So...
01:20:28
Speaker
Yeah, very much one to watch. It looks like her first time racing on the trails, at least off by UTMB, outside of Queensland. And i think she's just done so with quite a statement. I don't know. that She's done the Wild Earth, Coastal High and Border Bolt. My guess is is that they're not particularly technical courses. So it's good to see her over this style of terrain.
01:20:49
Speaker
Still moving very fast and three minutes ahead of Bridget is a very, very impressive run. In the marathon, In the men's, Quinton Gilt the win in four hours 31.52. There's about six minutes behind Mikey DiMuentes' course record.
01:21:04
Speaker
ah Ben Butler, he finished second in 4.55.47 and Gerald McPherson was closing hard on Ben. Ben and Quinton weren't separated by that much at the 30k mark. Gerald finished at 4.58.32. In women's field,
01:21:19
Speaker
and the women's field Steph Austin, she took the win in 5 hours, 29.10, followed by Julia Anderson last year, second place in 5.33.50, and then Sophie Broome in 5.37.44.
01:21:31
Speaker
And the thing that, okay, granted Quinton was quite a step ahead, sort of 23 minutes ahead of Ben, but especially that women's race, it's great to see ah marathon that takes five and a half hours separated by eight minutes for the top three in the women's.
01:21:45
Speaker
It's some very, very fun racing to watch. Yeah, and a course like that too. It'd be pretty interesting. Yeah, it's good to see close results. And it looks like we've been having a good time as well. Yeah, yeah he all all the footage I saw coming out, he looked like he was moving incredibly smooth. ah I think he said half an hour or so faster than his time from from last year. So yeah, obviously we saw him come second at at UTA, Myla, and has been doing a lot of very, very impressive training local to the area. So I think that does give a huge advantage on a course like this, but still just dialing it in. And and it was hot. You could see they were...
01:22:24
Speaker
having to ice up. um It was very sunny, very exposed that day. So yeah, very, super impressive time. The other race that was on over the weekend was Surf Coast Century.
01:22:38
Speaker
So in the hundred k Carl Harrison took the win in 901.45. Maddie Tindall in 925.10. And then Dale Nimmo in 934.34. I'll extra shout out he's a local to me and that was his first 100K.
01:22:53
Speaker
ah In the women's, Zoe Manning. 9 hours 15.25 so only 14 minutes off the men's winner she came second overall. Eve Brady she was fourth overall or sorry fifth overall second female 9 hours 40.57 and then Lauren Friskin in 10.44.30 I was down there for that weekend and saw Zaria at a couple of points and she just looked so strong all day hear was I think that was that was the performance for me of of the weekend down there.
01:23:24
Speaker
um In the 50K, Aidan Ford won in 401 flat. Daniel Armstrong second, 404.32. Tom Noble, 410.05. In the women's race, Jade Bucklow. She won 439.44. Amy Edwards, 445.34.
01:23:35
Speaker
And the women's ri jade bucklow ah she won in four thirty nine forty four amy edwards four forty five thirty four and so sara Foster in twenty two so again pretty pretty close across that whole field but think i will shout out is the team So Surf Coast, is they have a relay for that 100K.
01:23:59
Speaker
For long time now, they've had a $2,000 bonus if a team could break seven hours. um i think I don't know who Blake Hose had the record with. I can't remember. know if you guys know. But from him he ran in a team of two, so it's a little bit different. He can have four people, but it's Blake. So I think they ran 7.19 so.
01:24:21
Speaker
um A team I was in came down and we broke that record but didn't quite break seven. i think last year there was another team that ran like 701, 702. And then a team came down this year from the ACT, which included Toby Lang and Ewan Shingler, and they ran 651, 44. we I was down with um and we were i was down there with my team following them around and I saw those guys on course and it just, yeah, full gas. It was super impressive to watch. There was just, yeah, nothing, but that was quite, quite a big mark. I know for the event fence as well. Um, so yeah, just, just wanted to give those, those guys. I don't, I can't get the, the names. I don't think of the other two guys that are in their leg. And I only knew, uh, Ethan and Toby, so you and a Toby, but, um,
01:25:10
Speaker
Yeah, very, very impressive. There's some other other races on over the over the weekend, but those those were the two kind of big ones to to mention. Questions? I will just throw one to you guys at the moment. Just give me one moment to get these up.
01:25:27
Speaker
I think mention these before we start and it sounds like you both got some pretty recent
Blister Prevention and Care
01:25:33
Speaker
experience. So from Heath45 on Instagram, any advice for preventing slash managing blisters, especially between the toes? First DNF, sad face.
01:25:45
Speaker
Vlad, what's your... yeah I mean, for years, like when I started running, I used to get a lot of blisters and my go-to technique was don't do anything and just keep on running and the skin will get stronger in those areas and hopefully they won't come back again.
01:25:59
Speaker
And that worked. And then when I came to Europe this time, a few weeks ago, um getting on really steep trails, I got a massive blister on my heel and it was really painful. It was, you know, i couldn't really step on it and every run was painful.
01:26:15
Speaker
And I was very tempted to pop it and kind of drain it. But I just went, no, just let it be. And um it healed by itself, obviously a week of pain or even longer, like 10 days of pain.
01:26:28
Speaker
um But now, yeah, it's healed. And hopefully that area is stronger now and that blister won't come back again. So I think if you are popping them and and draining them,
01:26:38
Speaker
it's a relief for a bit, but that just means that that area might get blistered up again. So if you can go through it and not do anything, just let your body heal. ah That would be my advice. That's what it's worth a couple of years. Yeah.
01:26:53
Speaker
play up my elephant Yeah, I think the initial ah care is important. um Just make sure you don't do anything untoward. i got a My most recent one was last year, OCC, about halfway in.
01:27:05
Speaker
I got one on the arch of my foot. It was huge, but popped during the race. um And then I flew home pretty much straight afterwards and it didn't have time to dry out and I physically couldn't run for 10 days on it. I could barely walk on it.
01:27:16
Speaker
um So I think the initial care important. like straight after the blister, if it does pop, just re really manage it because, yeah, and it can put you out for a long time.
01:27:27
Speaker
But, yeah, i don't get too much buzz, yeah. Yeah, I think obviously shoe choice, if you do get your feet wet, changing your socks, if you're going to be out there, I'm assuming this was from Surf Coast 100, so, yeah, if you're going to get wet in the first 20K in that race, just change, stay on top of it.
01:27:43
Speaker
There is literally a book on this called Fixing Your Feet. it is the prevention and treatment for athletes. So my advice would be to read that. Having read that, I'm going to partially disagree with you, Vlad, in this one, but I think it is very much a personal preference and what what what you you like to do.
01:28:01
Speaker
um A lot of it comes into the the pre- race care so that book obviously says keep your toenails short not like right right back because that can also be bad but keep them short it says to take away any calluses using um i don't know what the stone's called but not like raw skin but making it flush so there's no no kind of increased areas that are likely to cause any pressure uh if you do have any hot spots pre your race pre-tape it the the pre-tape tape is really good that kind of lighter white one for that one and then in the race we're talking about 100k if you're not in the last 25k if you're in the middle of the field
01:28:45
Speaker
general General advice would be to take care of the blister. So either take a scalpel and put a small slit or if you've got a pin that you've sterilized, put a few holes in on the side of the blister so that it can continue to drain as you run.
01:28:57
Speaker
Cover it up with some tape. You can put some Vaseline of squirrels nut butter or whatever you use over over that area. um Specifically for the toes as well is put that tape around that toe and also typically the next toe because you're going to get rubbing so you can end up just kind of taping every single toe but you just quickly put those two those two together um again dry your feet change your socks lube up go and off off you go off you go but yeah ah my my best advice for that would be would be go get the book fixing your feet it really very it clearly goes into goes into that one sorry i feel like i really set you up there
01:29:34
Speaker
No, no, no. I mean, like, I just have the mentality of just let your body deal with it um and they will get stronger. Yeah. Yeah. yeah But obviously, if that happens mid-race, it could really slow you down.
01:29:46
Speaker
So prevention is probably important. But also, yeah, if your feet are strong enough through it, you just got to go through it a few times and hopefully those areas are strong enough and it doesn't happen again. Yeah, I think there's like personally i use toe socks. I never have any issues around my my toes.
01:30:02
Speaker
And that's like a personal preference there. And i think more the issue is that we can run through the discomfort of a blister like with trail runners, ultra runners, you get very good at dealing with discomfort. It's more the fact that if it causes you to alter your your gait,
01:30:17
Speaker
that it could cause a compensatory injury. And then all of a sudden, the small blister on your right leg is causing your ITB and your left to go absolutely nuts, and then you're out at the race. So that's the, hence hence the, if you're in that sort of last 25% and you can get to the end, probably get to the end.
01:30:32
Speaker
If you're not, just look after yourself yourself early. um You guys might have very quickly touched on the recovery one, or should we yeah close this up?
Post-Race Recovery Tips
01:30:42
Speaker
let's do it.
01:30:43
Speaker
So ah Kim Fleck also said, i think this one would be a bit of fast one, tips for recovery the 48 hours after an event in brackets 100k. So again, I'm assuming Surf Coast for this one. Blake, I'll go for you first, specifically ultra recovery.
01:30:58
Speaker
what What would you do? haven't run that long in a while. um Oh, it's changed a little bit recently. used to just drink heaps of beers and not worry about it until I had an X-Race on the calendar.
01:31:12
Speaker
But now I think recovery is a little bit more important. um Yeah, it's just the same old thing. It's easier to say than do. Just calories in straight away, hydrate straight away, and just get as much sleep as you can.
01:31:24
Speaker
That's the the the general basic things. It's easier said than done. Like after races, I generally don't have an appetite. Yeah. um I don't really feel like drinking or eating um but even the next day i think is very important um and just move I reckon movement as well even the next day don't don't just lay in bed I think you've got to get get the body going um and just get everything moving around again yeah Vlad just go run another hundred k Yeah, no, 100% agree. Yeah, force the food down, even if you don't feel like it.
01:31:57
Speaker
um Definitely try and drink a lot. So you start, um yeah, getting that recovery going. And then yeah, movement, like I would try and do a jog the next day or a long walk or um yeah, try and move as much as possible. And of course, sleep is a bit I mean, ah for me, it's a bit hard to sleep after long runs like really long runs or long races.
01:32:20
Speaker
But yeah, as much rest as you can. it's So rest, movement, calories, hydration. Yep, pretty much. i've i've I've heard Bix make a pretty good recovery tablet. Apparently that's quite quite helpful.
01:32:32
Speaker
ah But yeah, I think that the 48 hour recovery is just, yeah, eat. Unfortunately, alcohol isn't the best thing for you. So if you are going to have a drink, try not to have too many of them. um And just remember that your metabolism is is elevated for a long time after. It's not just the next 24 hours. It's those recent studies showing potentially up to seven days. So keep Keep fueling like you're training, even if you aren't training. If you are having a ah week or longer off after this, just keep hitting the protein, and hit the carbs, and you should feel feel pretty good soon, hopefully.
Upcoming Trail Events and Conclusion
01:33:05
Speaker
But yeah. All right, and then finishing up, coming up this week, there isn't too much on
01:33:12
Speaker
On the trail scene, there's Peliga Ultra in New South Wales. um There's Coca-Cola Challenge in Sydney.
01:33:23
Speaker
The La Billa Dairy Peninsula in Tasmania Trail Run. Run up in Murray um in the High Country in Victoria. And Warrnambool Running Festival as well in Vic, I think that looks like.
01:33:37
Speaker
all of the trail and the great, great North Walk trail running festival in New South Wales. So few things on before we kind of hit hit a pretty busy back end of the year. Guys, it's been a pleasure. Lovely to catch up with you both.
01:33:50
Speaker
her life If Vlad, if you're not on next week's show, and well i won't speak to you, but good luck. Thank Blake, you too. Have fun. I'm looking forward to seeing you come across in fifth and actually be third again. That would be lovely.
01:34:07
Speaker
Oh man, now we're talking. That would be, don't know what kind of dream that would be in, but yeah. Yeah, we'll, we'll dream it. And thank everyone. Thanks. Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed the episode, please do consider sharing it. Give us a five star review. It really helps get us around and we'll catch you next time.
01:34:24
Speaker
Thanks, mate. you guys. Bye.