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Trish McKibbin: Fueling, Family, and the Trail to World Mountain & Trail Championships
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Trish McKibbin returns to the show ahead of representing Australia at the World Mountain & Trail Running Championships. In this episode, she reflects on navigating relative energy deficiency (RED-S), the lessons learned from Tarawera and APTRC and how changes to her nutrition, recovery, and training have reshaped her approach.
We also discuss the balance between family, work, and elite-level preparation, along with the confidence she’s drawing from her past international race experiences.
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Thanks for tuning in to Peak Pursuits! Connect with us on Instagram @peakpursuits.pod to share your thoughts, questions, and trail stories. Until next time, keep hitting the trails and chasing those peak pursuits!
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Transcript
Trish's Journey and Preparations for World Championships
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Peak Pursuits podcast. My name is James Sieber and today we're going welcoming back Trish McGibbon to the show she builds up towards the short trail team at the World Mountain Running Championships.
00:00:27
Speaker
The last time we had Trish on was just before she decided to not race down at KMR in March and since then it's been a process of rebuilding, working on nutrition, mindset and a whole lifestyle towards this event.
00:00:42
Speaker
This conversation with Trish is a great chance to catch up to hear what it is like to battle through a red S diagnosis, changing your fueling habits and a overall mindset shift. I hope you like this one. Let's get to the podcast with Trish.
Reflecting on the Past Six Months
00:00:56
Speaker
Trish, welcome back to the podcast. How are you doing today? Hey, and thanks so much for having me again. I'm excited to catch up. It's been quite a while. chatted with Matt Korean a couple weeks ago and he was the first person, I think he was the third maybe that I had on the show. So it's been a good six months now.
00:01:12
Speaker
I'm sure there's been been a lot lot happening in that period. Mostly, obviously, it's the application and then getting onto the world's team, which is why we're here today. Excited to hear hear your take on that and how how life and training has gone in that period. Yeah, wow, six months. Actually, time's gone pretty fast since then.
00:01:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of scary, actually. Yeah, I think last time we spoke, I was um coming off Tarawara and was feeling quite tired and wasn't sure what I was going to do next. So Yes, surprise. I obviously did end up applying for the team and was really fortunate to be selected. And now I'm heading over there in about seven days, eight days. Yeah.
Struggling with Fatigue and RED-S Diagnosis
00:01:52
Speaker
Given that you came off Tarawara and that day had not gone to plan, when we were chatting, you had just pulled out of going down Kunanyu. How did it feel to actually bring yourself to apply for the Worlds team?
00:02:07
Speaker
Do you know, it was actually, i did spend a bit of time thinking about it. i think what made me decide in the end was even though I was feeling quite fatigued at the time, I knew I had a fair bit of time to recover and to build back up.
00:02:21
Speaker
And I'd already started to feel, even just after having a couple of weeks off, I was starting to feel closer to myself again. So I kind of felt like there was a light at the end of the fatigue tunnel and that I had enough time to build.
00:02:35
Speaker
And I also was hopeful, I guess, that my results from last year, I had a reasonably good season and I thought with my Asia Pacific result, I may as well put my hat in the ring. And then I'm a little bit of, well, you know, if the universe decides that I'm in, like I'll put it in the hand of the selectors. And if they feel that I'm, you know, if I,
00:02:55
Speaker
get into the team, then I will yeah do my best to get back and to race over there. So I kind of just left it up to that. And if I didn't get in, I was going to be okay about that. But I was really hopeful that I would get selected. And yeah, I was really, really happy to be picked to be part of the team.
00:03:12
Speaker
The fatigue that you mentioned sort post-Tower and around the time you were applying, can you dive into a bit of what you think was causing that and how you managed to get yourself back out of it?
00:03:24
Speaker
I mean, it's hard to pinpoint. And I still, to be honest, I am still undergoing, you know, investigations just to rule other things out. But it's kind of been determined to be relative red S again, so relative energy deficiency in sport. And I was diagnosed with that at the start of last year.
00:03:41
Speaker
And I didn't really have symptoms, though, at that time. It was a really, um it was just random that I got ah diagnosed. I was part of a study and as part of the study, they did bone density scans and iron tests and things like that. And my bone density showed osteopenia in my legs and spine or my hip and spine.
00:03:59
Speaker
And so with that, I then sort of went to a sports doctor and had some other tests done and they found that my metabolism was really low. My estrogen levels were low. That's what was affecting my hormones. And um that's when I got that diagnosis. So it wasn't actually due to the usual route, which would be, you know, lots of stress fractures or other things, hormonal things that were obvious. I was just living in it.
00:04:20
Speaker
perpetual state of fatigue and brain fog, but I just thought that was life. Yeah. um So, yeah, that was really interesting. And from there I started working with a dietician, Gabby Villa, and then she was also helping me with my mid-race nausea um and my nutrition. But then we started looking more at my day-to-day nutrition and I really worked on that for 12 months.
00:04:43
Speaker
And then I sort of, I got quite unwell at the end of last year. i was actually, I had a sinus infection few days before CCC which is partially I got quite unwell during the race and then because of the sinus infection as well I decided not to keep going and I kind of held that sinus infection through the rest of the year it just took me a really long time to see specialists um and then it's sort of you know chicken or egg but then I had a tooth infection underneath that sinus and anyway by the time I managed to get it all fixed it was like February right before Tarawera
00:05:15
Speaker
which kind of mentioned. I think my body just kind of went through a fair bit over that time. Lots of antibiotics. You know, I was trying to fuel, I was trying to race and work, but I guess it's just that load that goes through your body. It was just too much. So Tarawara was kind of the straw that yeah broke me.
00:05:33
Speaker
And so when I came home from that, I just found it really hard to run. So I'd go out for 10 minutes and have to stop and sit on the side of the trail. just physically didn't have the energy to run. And I, having some trouble sleeping and I've never had insomnia before. So that sort of prompted me to go and get checked out by a doctor.
00:05:51
Speaker
um And that's kind of after all the tests and everything didn't show much is where we came to. So I just had a bit of time off and i people probably have seen I didn't race
Diet Adjustments and Training Impact
00:06:00
Speaker
a lot this year. i usually do race.
00:06:03
Speaker
more than once in a year. And that I started feeling really like just so much better. Like just, I still did exercise a little bit, but it was like, you know, every second day I rode my bike for an hour easy, maybe you just like a general population. And it actually felt really good to have a break. And I ran if I felt like it and hiked and yeah, it just took a fair bit of time.
00:06:28
Speaker
And then just started building up from there. And I started working with the dietician again, just to make sure I wasn't missing anything. So going back to last year, when you first found out that you had red S, what were the, without putting the numbers on stuff, because it's that specific to you, but what were the main differences that you had to start implementing whilst working with Gabby? um Eating lunch every day, which I know sounds absolutely ridiculous.
00:06:54
Speaker
um But I'm ah one of the directors at a busy physio clinic and I just am either seeing clients or helping staff and I would work from 8.30 till 6pm and maybe shove a bit of food in while I was working through my lunch break, which is a terrible habit to be in.
00:07:11
Speaker
so there were a few things it was getting like really consistently having lunch. And then we progressed to, we started with just having something and then it progressed into like the quality of what that was.
00:07:22
Speaker
and then adding in snacks. So between 8.30 and 6, obviously I need more than just lunch. um And then also um the food that I've been eating around my running, particularly my long runs, I always sort of would do my run.
00:07:37
Speaker
i mean, over a year ago, before the initial diagnosis of red ass, I did run without eating beforehand. um But as soon as I started working with Gabby, that was just no. So i always will have food before any training run.
00:07:51
Speaker
I now fuel during my runs apart from like an hour easy, but any of my interval runs, I take fuel with me. um Long runs, I fuel really consistently now at 60 grams of carbs an hour, which before then it was a little bit haphazard. I wouldn't have even really been able to tell you what I took.
00:08:08
Speaker
um And then... um Gabby helped me to consider that the food before and the food after is just part of the session. And if you don't have access to it, the session just doesn't happen. So if I'm at work and I have a cancellation, I think, oh, I better quickly get my run in, but I don't have any food, then I don't get my run in.
00:08:25
Speaker
So um it's just become a non-negotiable. If there's nothing to fuel with after, then you don't have the session. It's like a warm-up or a cool-down. And i that kind of helped me because i was a little bit, um I try focused a lot on the on the training, you know, ah appropriately warming up, cooling down, but I didn't link the food.
00:08:46
Speaker
wasn't as strict with myself on the food as I would with like a warm up and a cool down for injury prevention. And yeah, i've I think I've become a lot better with that. say It raises a really good point that I think so many of us just forget that training isn't just the running part of it all and that you can't hope to push your body in one area if you're depleting it in another area. Eventually that that that fight will end up in a bad way, whether it is injury or it's burnout. So that's really fascinating. Yeah.
00:09:18
Speaker
I think it worked. It works for a while. like yeah you and it did. It worked for me for years. i had the same patterns of what I eat and what I train for years. Like since I started a trail running in 2019, I think just over time, it just stops working for you after a while.
00:09:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's, i I'm not, I'm not, I'm not big on on podcasts and sharing too much about myself because I always feel like it's about the guests, but just for the the purpose of of this, that story is very similar to myself back in 2022. And I had the the same thing. Mine was, um there are other underlying reasons why I wasn't having enough, but,
00:09:54
Speaker
I was purposefully going for that power to weight ratio and I was running the best I had and it felt great and it did work for a good year or so until it didn't and it broke down. So I just think it's it is good to kind of highlight that, yeah, it it like you say, it can work for a period and you can get away with it and you can even have great, great results. But when it doesn't, it could really not work and it can be a very long process to get out of out of that for some people.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. And I've been lucky, like I haven't had in the last couple of years, a lot of physical injuries. So, you know, as this is more of like an endocrinological injury, I guess. And so I didn't necessarily have that injury that gave me a big break physically, if that makes sense. And so I'd kind of quite consistently been training.
00:10:40
Speaker
um And I think because of that, I, Yeah, I just didn't have that natural inbuilt injury rest in my year. was kind of just continuing on. um So, yeah, it was just a really strange, to be honest, i it was, yeah, a very different experience to be kind of forced to rest because of energy levels versus a physical pain or injury.
00:11:01
Speaker
And you said that you've been re-diagnosed with Red S at the start of this year. What kind of caused, like I guess, the relapse into that state? I guess I probably just never got out of it. Okay.
00:11:13
Speaker
what I'd say, i just wasn't symptomatic initially and I became symptomatic. I mean, infections and your heart your higher risk of infections if you're in energy deficiency.
00:11:24
Speaker
And so those infections you might say was actually because of that from August last year. And then just that continuing to push through. i mean, i also, you know, didn't take any time off work or anything like that. So, you know, continuing to push through at that intensity. just eventually my body said, hang on a second, like you have to stop.
00:11:44
Speaker
And so I finally did. And I do feel much better now. for that yeah i'm I'm very glad to hear that. And so once the energy had come back, you had that time off, you start to rebuild.
00:11:57
Speaker
what What has the last five months or so of training looked like to get you back ready for Worlds? Yeah, so I had a break after Tarawara and then actually having the break stirred up some tendon issues. I think um people who run all the time probably can know, but your body actually gets used to that load and tendons don't like any change. So, ah you know, it doesn't like when you do too much, but it also doesn't, they don't like when you do less.
00:12:22
Speaker
And so some of my old tendony things led up. So then it was a bit haphazard, bit of cross training, lots
Training Regimen and Race Preparation
00:12:27
Speaker
of physio and strength training and things like that intermixed with the running. um So then when I finally got back properly running, um I've been doing, i guess my training has been a bit different because of the nature of the world's course this year.
00:12:41
Speaker
So my coach, Andy Dubois, he he's quite specific in terms of the training. So I've been doing lots of hills um because that's pretty much what we're faced with. It's either up or down from what I can see in the course profile and from what some of the others have said.
00:12:57
Speaker
um So, yeah, Wednesdays I've been doing hill reps but runnable hill reps. um And then on Saturdays I drive about an hour from my house. um So it's an hour each direction. There's like a steeper hill that I can practice with my poles.
00:13:11
Speaker
So you gain about, I think it's about 540 metres in 2K, 540 metres of vert in 2K. So I go and do reps up and down that. And then on Sundays I've been driving to Mount Tennant, which is a mountain.
00:13:24
Speaker
It's one of our frequented mountains close to Canberra. It's about 40, 50 minutes from my house and I've been doing reps up and down that. So that's like a running hiking, but it's ah lot a bit more runnable than the one I do on Saturday.
00:13:36
Speaker
um And it's a little bit technical on the descent. So I've been practising my descending um by going there as well. And then the rest of the runs are relatively easy. They're sort of my three things other than easy runs that I do.
00:13:50
Speaker
Okay. so you're not really doing any sessions in in the sense of outside of the hill reps as such. My sessions are hill reps. Yeah. Yeah. that's Yeah. yeah It's a run on hill. It's like a 10% grade.
00:14:03
Speaker
Oh, okay. All right. So i was in my I was thinking steeper than that. how How are you finding that trend, that style of training? I really like it because I did a lot of speed earlier in the year. So I was doing a speed block from sort of end of last year, early this year, leading up to Tarawera, which I also really enjoyed. And I was even running on hard surfaces to do that going down to the lake.
00:14:25
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I think in this race, um, Andy and I were just talking and I guess you've only got so much time to work on something. And so ah speed would be my weakness. So we could either work on my weakness or we could work on something. It's a bit more of my strength, but make it even better. And considering the race was going to be a lot of up and down, I wanted to have my quads conditioned for the descents and to feel more confident with technical terrain.
00:14:49
Speaker
um and also just try and build my hill climbing as much as possible. And so, you know, that was just the trade-off. I also have a high risk higher risk of injury, I find, with um flat speed work.
00:15:03
Speaker
And so just with everything, you know, the timeframe that we had, just decided it wasn't that wasn't the thing to focus on for me. Sounds like it makes makes a lot of sense. and Personally, everyone's a bit different, I guess.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. but i know but You look at the profile of that course and hearing everyone talk about it, I think it's ah having a body condition to to that that degree of up and down and that technical terrain is going to be very beneficial when it comes to to the race.
00:15:31
Speaker
Since we last spoke, have you had to change anything, like include any form of cross-training as a staple in your week?
Balancing Running and Strength Training
00:15:40
Speaker
Do you know, I don't cross-train. The reason is, is that I have – certain amount of time per week and I can run in that amount of time. So I haven't maxed out my running.
00:15:50
Speaker
So if I was to cross train, I feel like I would just be putting myself in an energy deficit for the sake of an energy deficit, if that makes sense. so um with the cross training, if I'd maxed out my running that I could do without getting injured, then I would add cross training as an aerobic stimulus. But because I haven't maxed that out, I'd rather just be replacing running that I could be doing or I'm just like adding fatigue um because it I mean, with Red S, it can take years to fully get over. So I'm still, I still am kind of walking the the line in terms of energy in, energy out. So I do have to be quite careful. So you know I don't tend to add anything like rent, like not junk miles as such. But like for me, I just feel like it would just be extra for minimal benefit.
00:16:37
Speaker
What about strength training? Because again, when we last spoke, you said that it's something that you should be doing more of that you were kind of dabbling with. I'm a terrible physio.
00:16:48
Speaker
Look, i do i do some. When I have niggles, I do more. yeah And when I don't have niggles, I sometimes um run out of time. But that's not it yet. I should be doing it more frequently. I am currently frequent, like, you know, regularly once or twice a week doing some strength training.
00:17:05
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Okay. b two you see that as the working concurrently with the running that that probably is the ideal scenario for you. It's just motivation, time. Yeah. I think it's once my running load increases, I'm just really tired.
00:17:21
Speaker
um I find it hard. You know, i work till 6 PM. I get home at quarter to seven. It's dinner time. Like my time to do strength training will be from 8.15 till 9 PM. And then I'm you know trying to get my son to bed. So it' it's hard to fit in. And so sometimes I'm It's what am I giving up?
00:17:38
Speaker
um yeah I realize I should absolutely still be doing it. And I do when my running load is less. So as the block builds, I do find sometimes the strength training goes, but as long as it comes back in, and I guess it's like periodizing your strength work as well.
00:17:51
Speaker
um But yeah, look, it's the thing I probably should focus on next. um Now that I've got all my food situation going pretty well. Yeah. So you feel pretty confident with where your food intake is both ah daily and also around round training? Yeah, I think particularly around training, I'm pretty consistent.
00:18:11
Speaker
um And yeah, I would say in general, I think I'm in a pretty good groove with that now. That's great. That's pretty good to hear. um One of the things that's derailed few of your races, and again, we we did speak about this, was your gut kind of turning sideways or going south on you.
00:18:28
Speaker
Have you been able to, or have you seen any any changes in that, well, through the work with Gabby now? Yeah, I mean, even last year it had improved a lot and I didn't have any issues at all in South Korea. um Tyrawera, it's hard to tell. Like, yes, I had issues, but I also wasn't well. I had quite a significant infection in my tooth during that race and Yeah. I, who knows what it was. Um, so yeah, I'm hopeful going forward for this race that I will be okay. I got trained every Saturday and every Sunday quite specifically with my race nutrition. So have exactly what I'm going to have during the race for both of those runs.
00:19:04
Speaker
And then, like I said, on Wednesdays now with my most like speedy kind of hill reps, um, I'm also taking in nutrition. So that's taking it in with a high heart rate, which is usually harder to take in.
00:19:16
Speaker
So, Yeah, overall, it's been pretty good. And I did a long run. i was down in Bright training with some of the other ladies in the team and we did a bit over four hours and I was able to take in my 60 grams per hour.
00:19:29
Speaker
And it was relatively hot for what it has been. And um I was okay. So. Brilliant. Just go into it with positive mindset that it's going to be okay. Definitely. that That weekend, I spoke to SJ about it when when I chatted to her. It sounded like it was a ah really good, solid training weekend do you guys had down there.
00:19:49
Speaker
how How was that for you and like what did you take away from from that weekend? Yeah, it was a really fun weekend. Do you know, anytime I go away, because I was actually away for the following week, I was on my way down to Melbourne for a course for work.
00:20:03
Speaker
So I drove instead of flying so I could go past Bright. And um to be honest, I got there on Friday night absolutely exhausted. as you probably know, when you're having a week off work, you have to do twice as much work the week before you go. So by the time I got down there, I was actually completely fried.
Team Training Weekend and Learnings
00:20:19
Speaker
um So, yeah, did some hill reps on Saturday. and then on Sunday we went out and did the Wandi Cross course, or most of it. We kept getting lost. So we ended up, yeah, yeah.
00:20:32
Speaker
Anyway, running back to Bright because we ran out of water and then we had to find our way back. um I had the great idea that, oh, don't worry, we need to go get water. We'll just run into Bright. We'll just get an Uber.
00:20:42
Speaker
But Uber doesn't exist in Bright because it's one street. So we ended up having to run the five kilometres back with our food. um But, yeah, that's me coming from Canberra and not realising. Yeah, that makes for a good story at least.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah, we desperately needed water. So, yeah, we didn't have a lot of choice. Yeah. coming away from that and seeing you're running with Jess and SJ and just seeing like where people because everyone always moves better some people bear are climbing descending on the flats e etc whether it's at the end of the run start the run was there anything that you could identify as oh I need to work on this this thing over the next four weeks before we do get to Wales um yeah look I mean I I know my weakness and that is keeping up on the flat, like runnable sections.
00:21:30
Speaker
And yes, like that is the case. I'm working harder than them in terms of like my capacity at that point. But I was climbing and descending quite well. And so I felt pretty good in terms of that's what the race hopefully will be.
00:21:42
Speaker
But I know as soon as it gets runnable, yeah, that's definitely my weakness. That's something, but I'll probably end up working on that after Worlds. I don't think I have enough time now. No, no. And looking at the Wells course, there doesn't look like there's a significant amount of transitions where you're running fast or even fast downhills. So it feels like that's not the but key priority at the moment. Yeah, look, I think the hiking is is a strength of mine versus runnable hills.
00:22:11
Speaker
um It's a little bit different even to hiking hills. So yeah, hopefully there's lots of hiking because that tends to be my strength. And I felt quite quite good on the descents that weekend. end I felt, um yeah, pretty flowy down the technical descents, which was really good because some of the, like it was a confidence builder for me just because I usually feel more confident on descents than I know. and because I did the same descents because there's only a few around here, i know the descent so well it's hard to tell how that's going to translate to an unknown descent.
00:22:44
Speaker
um I actually find the same thing in mountain biking. i I go downhill so much better on a course that I know. But I don't know the bright, like the Wandicross course very well. So that was nice just to go down some unfamiliar, rocky descents and see how that felt. Yeah.
00:23:02
Speaker
Yeah. Doing the Wandicross course now, are you thinking you definitely want to come back and do it in a future year? I've always wanted to do Wandicross and I've,
00:23:13
Speaker
Signed up once and this year I was about to go actually after we spoke last time. I thought that was a really good option and then um decided to have that break. But um before like last year I did sign up as well, but I rolled my ankle just before and so I didn't get to the start line. So it's still on the list.
00:23:29
Speaker
It just has seems to be one that I keep, I don't know, something keeps happening right beforehand. So i'm gonna have to make it happen next year. It's a shows fantastic course though. I quite enjoy that style of running or hiking.
00:23:42
Speaker
yeah like i'd'd I'd love to see you on that course and see what you could do. It's definitely, it seems like the the person on that course that can embrace it and really like enjoy it, it is a stark difference because a lot of people do feel quite overwhelmed by that style of terrain because it's pretty unique and in Australia.
00:23:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's the kind of terrain where you think that can't possibly be the trail. it is, yeah yeah. Which quite
Balancing Family and Training
00:24:05
Speaker
excites me. i like that kind of thing. Again, last time we spoke quite a while about being able to balance everything. So having those competing priorities with work, with family, and then with training.
00:24:21
Speaker
And that at the end of the day, this is a hobby. You're not paid for it. It's meant to be fun. And that kind of has to stay at the the essence of it. Getting onto a team like Worlds, does that balance become any harder to to negotiate?
00:24:38
Speaker
Not necessarily, actually. um Before I apply, my husband and I like sat down and spoke about it. I didn't and didn't just apply without him knowing what it would um entail. So he's been really, really supportive.
00:24:50
Speaker
You know, leading up to ah probably even a couple of months ago, I was running around the trails near here just trying to rep. could do reps up my small mountain. And my coach kind of mentioned to me, he's like, well, you've maxed out what you can do there. So yeah.
00:25:06
Speaker
You're either going to need to drive somewhere to a longer hill, buy a weight vest and start trying to weight up your reps. Like how are we going to progress this? And I sort of said, oh, you know, it's so far.
00:25:18
Speaker
And he had a good point. He's like, well, you can drive and be prepared or you can keep doing what you're doing and be less prepared. And so my husband and was like, yeah, well, obviously you should drive and go and do the training. And so to his credit, you know, every Saturday I'm out for about four plus hours because of the drive. And then on Sunday, you know, it's six plus hours because of the drive.
00:25:40
Speaker
um so I have had to sacrifice, I guess, my weekends with my family, and which means he and my son are also sacrificing that time too. And he's been doing a lot of the the caring role over the weekends for the last couple of months, which has been really amazing. so I guess, yes, the balance changes.
00:25:57
Speaker
um We both went in, I guess, with that plan and like an agreement that for this one. And I did kind of think this might be my last one. And so, you know, let's just put it all in and have a go, um make it worse but worthwhile and see see what I can do. And then after Worlds, you know, I'm going to back it off a little bit in terms of those, like the duration on the weekends. And then my husband can spend a bit more time doing his hobbies and things like that. So I guess we're just balancing it that way.
00:26:25
Speaker
But I think to prepare for something like Worlds, yes, like the the balance had to shift a little bit towards that or it i shouldn't have applied, if that makes sense. Like I needed to give it a certain amount of my time.
00:26:37
Speaker
i also did actually change my work hours. So I started working later on a couple of days so I would have Wednesdays mornings off so I don't start work till 11.30 so I can do my hard run um because I was doing my hard run in the dark.
00:26:52
Speaker
it's really hard to run single track hills in the dark at a good enough effort. So I did shift work as well. So I have actually put a little bit more focus, I guess, into preparing for Worlds, um which has been really nice. I i don't know if I'll go back. I like it. It's really nice. I only have a few dark runs a week because I run in the sunshine now Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday, which has made a huge difference for motivation.
00:27:22
Speaker
When you know that your your family is having to compromise, your husband's taking up that that slag whilst whilst you are away training, and then you just mentioned that that this, potentially, this could be your last your last one from a world's perspective, does that put any extra pressure onto what this event needs to be?
Lessons from Past Competitions
00:27:41
Speaker
don't think so. i think think I've really enjoyed my running career, if you call it a career. i don't know, my run my time running at this level. And I'm really fortunate this is my fourth Australian team in different capacities. Obviously, like one was sky running, one was Asia Pacific, and now this will be my second world mountain trail running chance.
00:28:02
Speaker
So I feel like I've and I've been really proud of how I've done in all of those events, actually. I've been very fortunate. I finished them all and, you know, some were better than others, but I feel like I gave everything for all of those ones that I had on the day.
00:28:16
Speaker
actually going to this one, I think this is just the icing on the cake. um yeah, maybe my last one, but not my last one because I'll stop running. yeah And who knows?
00:28:27
Speaker
My husband thinks I'll change my mind anyway. But it's more just the the time commitment and like what I want to spend my time focusing on, um whether I want to do another two years focusing on Worlds because obviously picking those races and like it's more than just the just before the application time. Like there's a process sort of leading up to it.
00:28:49
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, so I think not so much in terms of that extra pressure. I'd love to see how how i go. um But I probably put that pressure on myself, whether it was my first one or last one, to be honest with you. okay No, it's interesting. As someone that doesn't have kids, it's an easy commitment to go and train for six hours and leave my wife at home or she'd be with me. But I wasn't sure if that would have.
00:29:15
Speaker
having a different impact. The experience you've had in the last three teams and various aspects of of trail, is there anything that you can draw on or or lessons that you learned and from those experiences that you can bring forward to this team?
00:29:28
Speaker
um Yeah, I think I have actually learned a lot just by running in Europe a few times now. So World Trail Champs and Skyrunning were both in Europe. One was Italy, one was Austria, but I've also...
00:29:41
Speaker
finished CCC once and attempted CCC a second time. And I've run in Norway. So I've had a few goes, I guess, running on more European style trails. and Number one, i think I feel prepared to feel terrible at high altitude.
00:29:57
Speaker
And I think that that mentally helps. I remember the very first time Sky Running Worlds in 2022, got up the top and I thought, oh my gosh, I'm so unfit. Like,
00:30:09
Speaker
I must have gone out way too hard. Do you know what's wrong with me? And I got in a really men bad mental head space. And then you run down you go, oh, okay, that was just from being up so high. um But knowing that I'm going to feel terrible at the top of the first climb because it goes up to 2,600 metres, I just think mentally that will be helpful this time.
00:30:28
Speaker
yeah I also know sometimes my stomach is a bit worse high, but I know I'm going to run down and I know that once I get down it's going to be a lot better. Yeah. secondly I think I haven't seen the terrain so I I honestly couldn't I couldn't tell you if I know what that terrain is like but I have done a sky running worlds and I have been told that it's like a sky running course so I'm hopeful that that experience of running on trail that you think this can't possibly be trail um is helpful um same in Norway a lot of the runs I did were just big rocky outcrops um
00:31:04
Speaker
So I do have some experience running on that kind of terrain, even if I don't do it all the time. Whereas UTMB style races like CCC is just super groomed trails in comparison. So I'm pleased to have also had some of this other type of more sky running type races, which is hopefully going to be good, but we'll see what happens.
00:31:24
Speaker
um Yeah, and I think knowing how fast the start of these races are, Sky Running World started with a big climb similar to this um with quite a speedy descent to get to the climb. And there's usually, same with Asia Pacific Champs, there's always like usually a couple of kilometres of road or something that everybody just sprints as fast as they can because once you get onto the single trail, obviously everyone's jostling a bit for position.
00:31:52
Speaker
So knowing that that's coming I think can help hopefully for me to go into a little bit calmer and not get so caught up in the how fast everyone's going because speed is not, it's not my thing and I don't want to burn too many matches just running, you know, running in the first couple of kilometres. And CCC was like that as well. It's really fast at the start until you get onto the climb and then everyone's sort of in a line yeah climbing up the hill.
00:32:16
Speaker
So think they're the main things I'm hoping I can take into this one. Do you take any particular confidence from Asia Pacifics? Because you obviously had a fifth place finish there.
00:32:27
Speaker
absolutely. I did. I'm not saying that you'll get like a for 50 miles. So yes, i had was very I felt very good in Asia Pacific. I had one of those days where I wasn't sick, my nutrition got in, the weather was perfect and I felt strong to the end.
00:32:45
Speaker
So that's like the unicorn of races for anybody, right? No race is always perfect. um So yes, confidence, that Hopefully I can perform okay. Europe's completely different though, so I still think it's completely different um situation and the course will be really different.
Expectations and Goals for World's Race
00:33:05
Speaker
Asia Pacific, a lot of it was running um and this one is going to take potentially two hours longer for the same distance. So, yeah, kind of hard to tell, but it'll be an adventure.
00:33:19
Speaker
I'm quite excited to see what this technical terrain is like actually. And getting over there about a week before, no, two weeks before, must be. good um Rough, like a week and a bit.
00:33:33
Speaker
It's not much. Yeah. Will you still try and get on the whole course in that period? No, I won't have time. um I had to sort of make the decision. I've done it lots of different ways in the past. So I've gone over early.
00:33:46
Speaker
um Like I went over a month before CCC last year and did another race while I was over there. And I've done it by just going over and racing. I've done it sort of halfway.
00:33:57
Speaker
um It's hard. i feel like the best way would be go over two months before and then you could go and look at the course and acclimatise properly. But because I'm only able to go max two weeks before, i figured I'd probably just end up getting tired in the altitude. Like I'm not there long enough to actually acclimatise properly. Yeah.
00:34:18
Speaker
um so i'd be And I don't have enough time to do lots of long days on my feet. And so I'd be better off just going over, having a little look. Like I will go up a little bit, but I won't have time to go look at the whole course. Yeah.
00:34:32
Speaker
And I guess lastly, you've also previously mentioned a lot about having process goals and and what you want to get out of of events that are outside of just purely performance.
00:34:44
Speaker
Looking at worlds, well what is... What's the goal? What do you want to kind of reach that finish line having having achieved? It's a really good question, Jase.
00:34:54
Speaker
I don't actually know I've figured that one out yet. um i am I have in the past had goals around my nutrition, but I feel like that's a bit dangerous because it's really easy for that to go sideways. And then I don't want to have a negative headspace around not achieving that goal.
00:35:11
Speaker
um But, yeah, look, I'd like to get around, feel like I've given everything that I can, um as cliche as that sounds. um And, yeah, look, I guess being somewhere in the middle would be nice. Not that I have a place goal, but the last few times I've gone I've been around the middle.
00:35:29
Speaker
um And if I can still be around the middle after a couple of years, that would be great. um I'd like to feel, yeah, strong near the end. Like I'd i'd like to still be pushing at the end.
00:35:40
Speaker
And I think that was something in Asia Pacific that I was quite proud of is I still was pushing and I gained a place, I think, two kilometres from the finish line. Like I was still pushing right to the end and that's what I'd like to do.
00:35:53
Speaker
the version of Trish that was at the 2023 champs compared to the year of today you how different of ah an athlete do you feel like I don't know it's only been two years yeah um I definitely have more um specificity around what I'm eating definitely compared to then I didn't have the best day that day like ah I was very fortunate like I realized the weather I did stop a couple of of our teammates finishing a lot of the women's field actually. So I really like can't complain, but yeah, I didn't feel like it was one of those unicorn days.
00:36:31
Speaker
um So i yeah, I'd like, I think I had one or two gels for the entire race. And so I finished really depleted. um Jess Roden can and comment on that. And the bus ride back was quite torturous for me. And I ended up laying down in my hotel room for the rest of the afternoon.
00:36:48
Speaker
ah But I'd like to, yeah, finish, get my nutrition and I guess I'm finished with energy, able to actually enjoy the rest of the the day, even after the race, which sometimes I'm so destroyed that, yeah, i kind of go and crawl into my hotel room and hide until the next day when I feel a bit better.
00:37:08
Speaker
That sounds like a ah challenging way to celebrate a result, whatever that was result might be. Yeah, that's right. But, yeah, in terms of changing as an athlete, I don't know if I have in two years or not. Hopefully I'm a bit stronger.
00:37:22
Speaker
Hopefully I'm a little bit more patient um and a bit more, yeah, considered with some of my in-race strategies, I guess, and hopefully not getting too caught up in the everyone else's race. Yeah. It sounds to me when you talk about the specificity of training, the re reworking of your work schedule,
00:37:41
Speaker
the nutrition work that you've done, there'd be a lot of mindset that goes into all of that as well. and And then even with a year of of challenges that you had through last year, it it it strikes me that you would be coming at it as a much more well-rounded runner now, but that's just as' from from listening to you talk.
00:37:58
Speaker
play Yeah, Yeah. Hopefully. hope Cool. Thank you so much for coming on It's been great to catch up again. We wish you all the best of luck over there. It's going to great see how you go. Yeah, thank you so much.
00:38:13
Speaker
Thanks for having me back on, Dave.