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Is High Art (Ballet/Opera) Still Relevant?
50 Plays2 months ago
James brings experimental and immersive theatre. Curt brings surreal, dreamlike cinema.
James talks about the power of live performance and why theatre still feels culturally vital even in a world dominated by screens. We get into the electricity of a shared audience, the vulnerability of performing in front of a room, and why certain art forms still carry a sense of legitimacy in the cultural conversation.
Curt talks about a recent shift in the kinds of films he’s been drawn to. Movies that once felt confusing or inaccessible are suddenly opening up in new ways. Instead of stories that neatly explain themselves, these films invite audiences to sit with ambiguity, emotion, and interpretation.
We also answer a listener email about revisiting Fall Out Boy and the strange experience of returning to the music that shaped your teenage years.
By the end of the episode the conversation circles a bigger question: what actually counts as “real” art anymore? That leads us to recent comments from Timothée Chalamet dismissing opera and ballet as cultural markers of seriousness, and a discussion about artistic legitimacy and who gets to decide what art matters.
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Transcript
Caffeine Preferences and Trends
00:00:00
Speaker
What's your preferred caffeine method?
00:00:03
Speaker
The big guy, Celsius. Oh, I forgot. Why did I even ask that question? I knew what the answer was. You know what? I've been on a kick lately, though. Okay, this is so, when I'm going to say it, you're going to go, why are you doing this to yourself?
00:00:17
Speaker
C4, which is the pre-workout, they make an energy drink. And they make an energy drink called Cereal Killer, but like spelled cereal, like the bowl cereal, you know? Yeah, yeah. um And it kind of tastes like Froot Loops.
00:00:31
Speaker
None of this should work.
00:00:34
Speaker
But I love it so much. And it's so much that I was like, what if I poured this over a bowl of cereal? I have not tried that yet. But I love when companies I love that they figured out that cereal milk is such a very specific but beloved flavor. Yes.
00:00:49
Speaker
they They've done it with ice cream. They clearly do it with C4, which sounds awful to me right now.
Pre-Workout Effects and Strategies
00:00:55
Speaker
But yeah yeah it it makes your skin tingle. Okay, so i had to I had to learn this lesson all right because I would not use pre-workout for that very reason. i do not want to get into the gym and feel like my insides are going to burst the first time i do a bench press. And so I finally found one that I enjoy and doesn't make me feel crazy. But also what I do, i don't down the whole thing before my workout.
00:01:19
Speaker
I spread it out. And then I don't have that tingling feeling. Like a smart, logical, rational person. Yes. that's I don't have time for that. i just got to. Throw it back. I got to pop that iron. I do like, it's not a good feeling, but it is a useful feeling when you're just like filled with anxiety that you're like, i just need to pick something up.
00:01:42
Speaker
That's kind of the, yes, you know, but but like I said, but I think that slow release of the pre-workout, and I guess if you can call mine current workout. But, uh, but like the slow release really helps me just like, I can do two or three hours in the gym and not, and not feel exhausted or tired.
00:01:58
Speaker
It's kind of, I started it.
Listener Engagement Appreciation
00:02:01
Speaker
this has now become a fitness podcast. yeah I started when I, when I'm doing longer workouts, actually bringing a little snack, like to throwing it in my gym bag.
00:02:11
Speaker
And I find that, you know, cause you're exerting yourself, just eating a little snack as you go. oh man. Like I, I feel like my energy levels stay consistent. I it's, it's great. So if you're ever wanting to treat yourself a little at the gym and make it not like, so just give yourself a little snack.
00:02:29
Speaker
I do a little rice cake with a little with a little peanut butter spread on it. Yeah. Pretty good. Okay. Quaker Oats. We'll get that Quaker Oats sponsorship and get those rice cakes out there. um Hey, everyone. This episode is brought to you by us once again.
00:02:44
Speaker
There's no sponsors here. before Celsius, Quaker Oats. They're not sponsoring us. We are just sailing the the treacherous seas of the internet on our lonesomes. So. um But yeah, so first, ah yeah, everyone, welcome back. Thank you so much for joining us on this journey. ah Hey, we got some emails.
00:03:04
Speaker
I've been really, I've just been, I said this last week, but genuinely, I'm just really happy with how much people like are really engaging with it. You know, sometimes you put things out there and you go, i don't know, is anybody even, you know, sometimes I'll post videos and I see that people watch them, but there's never any engagement. And so it's just been really gratifying to be like, oh, you're listening. Cool. So we appreciate you. Thank you for for taking the time.
00:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, seriously, everyone, um it's it's there's no never a guarantee with these kind of things if you like if you like it or not. So um so thank you. Yeah. um So let's do with this first one here. ah This is from
Fall Out Boy's Influence and Nostalgia
00:03:44
Speaker
Kate. And I have to point out, Google, I don't like AI. And the fact that you generated a response to this email for us. Thanks so much for your email, Kate.
00:03:53
Speaker
Oh, no I'll read it to you another time. But the way that they formatted this thing. Oh, I hate it. I'm so upset. Anyway, Kate. um Or do you get the synopsis of the email like in AI form and it's like not correct and it makes it sound like something is wrong or something that happened multiple times where I'll be like, it'll be like, you know, murder reported ah terror terrified. and I'm like, what? And then it's like, hey, did you see this horror movie or whatever? And I'm like,
00:04:20
Speaker
Stop summarizing AI. All right, Kate, what did Kate say? kate So first of all, Kate is writing from Australia. And Kate was excited to hear that you, Kurt, listen to Fall Out Boy because they've also been getting into them ah in recent years after just theater and nerdcore.
00:04:36
Speaker
So the question is, what are your favorites? They do have theater kid energy, don't they? Fall Boy specifically. Massive. Especially when they were wearing that hairstyle back in 2003 and 2000. Yeah, yeah, Okay, so the question is, what are your favorite songs or albums? Because they've been listening to Under the Cork Tree and Infinity on High, and they want to hear your thoughts.
00:05:01
Speaker
You know, i wish I could tell you individual albums. I i think it's like more like random songs that I that i tend to listen to um the From Under the Cork Tree is the...
00:05:13
Speaker
which I'm sure i recognize this as an artist myself, not a not a, you know, band or, or as widely successful as follow boy. But I feel like sometimes James, you probably relate to this. You do something early on and you're like, yeah, I did that.
00:05:29
Speaker
And now I'm doing new things, but people still just care about the old thing that you did. um that's ah like a thing that I try not to be cognizant of. Cause I know it's frustrating for me sometimes when it's like, yeah, no, I'm doing other things now.
00:05:43
Speaker
That said from Under the Cork Tree, which is like, I think it's their debut album from 2005, is so like seminal for me because that that hit a year before, like right around when I was like in high school, close to graduating.
00:05:58
Speaker
You know, it, it kind of represented the departure from a lot of the kids music that I was listening to. I, growing up, I only really listened to like classical music, uh, Broadway scores and, um, uh,
00:06:14
Speaker
you know Some of my dad's like interests, you know eighty s and and Fleetwood Mac. But for me, it was like, oh, I'm listening to something dangerous and cool and edgy. So even though I know they've had so many albums, I listened to, what is it? So Much for Stardust. I think that's the one I did in...
00:06:34
Speaker
listened to that one and I've listened to various ones here, there, but if I had to pick like one that defines my teen years, I mean, it is from under the cork tree, which again, i know it's like, that is their first album and they've made so many more. And I'm certain if I was sitting here, they'd probably say, what about all the other ones? um And they're great. But ah yeah, that's the one that I obviously think about time and time again. um Individual songs, I mean,
00:07:04
Speaker
i don't know i don't know if there's a specifically individual song. I've lately been trying to... I've been on a kick, honestly, in the last few weeks, maybe maybe this podcast inspired it, of trying to listen to more music and not just go to my favorites, not just go to the like, hey, I know this one and then all the lyrics, so I'm just going to put it on again. um So like, weirdly enough, I listened while I was driving to... was driving over to... to the fox lot yesterday which is a very long drive if you've ever driven around la and i listened to like the entirety of a some 41 album i've never listened to but i was like i like some 41 i why don't i know so i just put it on and so with fall boy it's like i don't know if there's a specific track but i've just been i've just been putting them on from time to time but uh yeah they're great man i will say i saw them live
00:07:55
Speaker
at ah they play there was the hella mega tour where they were opening for Green Day or they were open it was a co kind of headline situation and For my money, Patrick Stump might be one of the best live vocalists I have ever heard. I was i was flabbergasted. I mean, like he sounds better now than he ever sounded when he was younger. His vocals control, his support, and just they were phenomenal live. So if you get a chance to see them live, I think it's like a really fantastic show. And he's really out he's outstanding live. I think the theater kid energy that that is evocative of that era comes from the fact that a lot of those lead singers, and to a certain extent, I include Brendon Urie in this conversation, they just had phenomenal instruments to sing with, right? yeah As front men of these bands, They had very clear tone and they were hitting these high notes. And so I think when you talk about theater kid energy, that's kind of part of that because it lends itself so well to these dynamic voices and the genre itself. um ah So yeah, I agree. Patrick Stump is phenomenal. I do want to add a little anecdote here. um Yesterday i was on threads, which is still alive and kicking somehow. It is. Sometimes I see some good stuff on there. Yes. And there was a thread um that said... Tell me you were a black kid who grew up around around white people without telling I saw you post this. Yes. And it was the truest thing I've ever seen in my life. What were some of the like what were some of the things that jumped out at you that you went, yup?
00:09:26
Speaker
Well, this was part of that. is Because people were saying, oh, I could i could rattle off all the Fall Out Boy lyrics. I was like yeah. Yeah. Because here's the thing, there was this alt rock station, 89X, rest in peace. And ah when I was in high school, I was on the lacrosse, well, I was the manager of the lacrosse team. And all they would listen to was that station. So you'd hear Sum 41, Disturbed, Fall Out Boy, um Three Days Grace, My Chemical Romance. Like that was just that era of rock music, which I do kind of miss.
00:09:57
Speaker
Me too. Yeah. It ah they feels like there should have been an evolution of that and it didn't happen. But um ah but yeah, so there was like a a good two solid years where that was the music I was listening to. And I was just, I was in my emo phase. I couldn't grow the hair to like fit the look, but you know, I at least like listened to the radio stations. So that was very a very pivotal part of my adolescence.
00:10:22
Speaker
This is a strange tangent, but it reminds me of something I just watched recently.
Cultural Shifts in Music Spaces
00:10:28
Speaker
And I could not tell you I should have my source here, but I'm just I'm just yes, ending off of this. But it was essentially the idea of how a lot of this is good this a big jump. So just go with me. I'm got i'm there.
00:10:41
Speaker
But it it was proposing that. In losing a lot of the alt rock or punk rock kind of space that a lot of the fascistic right wing sort of thing like engine has sucked up a lot of where like young guys went where like that music in that outlet, which was so much about like.
00:11:05
Speaker
stick it to the man, so you know, F you to like the machine to the system has kind of collapsed. And in its place, a lot of like young men gravitate towards like crypto bros. And like, ah it was like this whole essay about we lost like an alt space of like,
00:11:25
Speaker
No, like it's cool to like not to not be a subservient to the like the capitalistic machine. and And and I was like going that is so interesting because so many of the things.
00:11:40
Speaker
that I continue to care about, that I continue to be angry about in our world, lot of those ideas of resistance, and I'm not saying that these punk fans were revolutionary in this because I think they're in the footsteps of true revolutionaries, but a lot of the ideas of don't conform did come from idea.
00:12:02
Speaker
that era of like, and, and I'm, I am curious, is there anything like that right now for teens that is like an outlet of sort of forming these political ideas or these social ideas? And the the video essay I was watching kind of proposed that there wasn't, I've been thinking about that a lot recently. Um, I don't know how true that is, but it it struck me in in a pretty visceral way.
00:12:26
Speaker
I would say that, yeah, probably if there was a one-to-one, no. I don't think there's a current replacement for what something like Rage Against the Machine was doing back in the 90s. However, what I've observed, because I'm also a big electronic music fan, so EDM, trance music, dance, progressive house, and even just house, um by going to a lot of these shows – And talking to people, I've realized that a lot of people that did listen to your ah you know, mid 2000s, emo pop, rock, all that stuff. A lot of those people did go to dance music.
00:13:02
Speaker
um And so so there's, and you'll you'll hear it in certain, like, you know, I know we make fun of of dubstep a lot, but there is a sector of of electronic music that thrives on that rock sound and that hardcore edge. And then of course, there's there's the gamut of that.
00:13:21
Speaker
But I think a lot of those people went to EDM as well. So it might not necessarily be as political inherently, but I think there is a culture of, you know, there's this term plur, peace, love, unity, respect. And that's where you're supposed to abide by when you're in these dance spaces. um And so I think oh That's like a microcosm of that, where those people went. And i and i do kind of I do enjoy it when I'm when i'm there. So the the the the emo to EDM pipe pipeline
Listener Emails and Community Support
00:13:50
Speaker
exists. yes and That makes me think I need to check out EDM. But and yeah that was a very roundabout conversation around Fall Out Boy. But bring bring back punk bands. let's
00:14:00
Speaker
I'm in it. I'm into it. Remember I said Chaperone does a punk album. I'm... and We're in. We're in. um one other email i do want to look at is from Kara, ah tuning in from the UK. Hello, Kara. Hello. Recommendation of a musical called Two Strangers Carry a Cake Across New York.
00:14:20
Speaker
um i've heard about this oh i haven't okay yeah i've heard about this um and the concept looks looks is really cool it's literally two people uh carrying cake across to new york um i uh i believe it is playing in new york i might have made that up but um but there is a intention to bring it over to the states um so yeah so this is something that uh and i i want to talk about musical theater today myself so i'm glad you brought this up um uh i don't want to give away too much it's a quite a nice you know modern rom-com um but uh it isn't just about romance so um yeah i i think everyone should yeah give it a chance and check that out um what's the um what's the what's the sort of tone of it what's musically or do you like is it is it contemporary is it more of like a jazzy thing Absolutely contemporary. two strangers carry a cake across New York. First, you're going to meet Dougal, who is an impossibly upbeat Brit who has just landed in New York City for the first time to attend the wedding of the father he's never met.
00:15:20
Speaker
You'll meet Robin, the sister of the bride and a no-nonsense New Yorker with a lot of errands to do for the bride, including picking up the groom's estranged son from the airport. These two strangers begin their journey together, navigating New York secrets and second chances. I believe there's a lot of like, there's flashbacks and revelations. um It is a contemporary musical um but ah it's apparently done very well in the UK. And so, yeah, they are um bringing it over here to ah the States. So if you get a chance to see it, I highly recommend. It looks like there's even performances as early as tonight or whenever you're listening to this podcast. So um yeah, ah thank you for the recommendation. I'm glad someone has has brought that up.
00:16:04
Speaker
Do you feel like this could be a ah maybe we can pin this for a later because of your topic today, but I feel like I used to be so in the know on what new musicals were happening and like what was what what was being developed and workshopped and and what's on Broadway right now. And People can you could you could make up a musical you had Mad Libs a musical to me and I'd be like yeah I guess that's I feel like I have completely lost touch and it's strange because I knew every everything I could be like in 2004 the winner of the Tony was like I knew every it was insufferable but maybe it's like the maybe it's like the award show thing from last week where I'm just like I don't know anymore yeah don't know you were nerd for that stuff.
00:16:46
Speaker
I was, especially when I was in college, right? Because we had to be in the know about what was going on. Right. Especially Michigan, yeah. Especially in Michigan. Oh, yeah. we They were mad at us if we didn't know. But um but then you moved to New York, and and then you just want to know what shows are there for you to audition for, right? So you just want to know the playing field. um i I do want to touch on this later because wonder...
00:17:09
Speaker
i i i wonder if broadway is going the same way of film for me and that we are taking less and less chances and going with more safer possibilities so that we can you know recoup our our investments and things like that i i'll i'll touch on that later but um but yeah i i hear your point and i and i agree with it We will revisit theater shortly. Yes. um Thank you for the emails, everybody.
00:17:41
Speaker
Yes. Writing us in. You can always write us that. So what are you into pod at gmail.com? He got it right. um And we really appreciate it. We'll, we'll read them on air so long as there we can. Yes. As long as there's not something horrible in it, we'll read it. Yes. ah What are i committed to? No matter what you write, we will read it on the air. It's like, no, that's not true. This podcast would be four hours long.
00:18:06
Speaker
ah We'd be we' be encroaching on Joe Rogan's territory of just talking for far too long. um All right. So, ah Kurt. So what are you into?
00:18:19
Speaker
ah
Exploring Surreal Cinema
00:18:21
Speaker
I've had two interests this week. I've had two areas of obsession. So ah I think i'll I'll start with one topic. And if there's time at the end to come around to the more petty thing, I'll start with what I'm really into on a deep, visceral, I'm enjoying it level. But then I have another thing I'm into that I'm spite into, that I'm angrily, what the fuck is this? And I'm mad about it. And that's not as positive. So I'm not going to start with that. I'm gonna start the positive thing.
00:18:45
Speaker
great and it's more of a way of thinking about things for years i used to when i was younger watching movies getting into movies getting into cinema i i really resented i i wouldn't even call it absurdist sort of filmmaking but non-linear sort of abstract new wave kind of experimental sort of things but When I was younger, I wanted, i was so interested in structure. It's like what I fell in love with was this idea of there's rules to a world and you build a world and things make sense. And, you know, you set up a character for this and you set up this payoff and this area, like everything, you know, it's like I was in awe of the structure and kind of the architecture of great stories. And I still am and I still appreciate it.
00:19:37
Speaker
But I've noticed something in this particular season, in in the year of our Lord, 2026, that I have found myself, and actually I had this as a topic for episode zero, but i just we hadn't gotten into it yet. So this has been a journey for a few months.
00:19:52
Speaker
I've really been on a journey of wanting to seek out and watch and engage with more surrealist, dreamlike kind of storytelling.
00:20:06
Speaker
And it's interesting because there's there are a few films that I've watched in the past in the past like month or two that I know like 20 year old me would have loathed. i would have shouted Emperor's new clothes at it and been like, there's nothing here. It's, it's nothing. It's just performative nonsense.
00:20:25
Speaker
Um, there's specifically, so the, there, um, the film, the films that came to mind are, Tarkovsky's the mirror, um, David Lynch's fire walk with me. and then a recent film, uh, Lynn Ramsey's die. My love.
00:20:43
Speaker
And these are films that I would have hated. i mean, like absolutely hated a decade ago. And for some reason in this season, and I haven't answered this question. And so I'm curious to to ask what you think, James, because i think we've talked a little bit about some of the projects and some of the ideas you've had, especially with dance and with cinema that we've both been in this weird phase of like seeking more absurdist and strange kind of nonlinear things. Yeah.
00:21:12
Speaker
I'm finding so much meaning and beauty in that. And I don't know if it's because... the state of the world. I don't know if it's because I myself am like questioning who I, don I don't, I don't know, but I'm finding myself now very resistant to when a film or story is actually too, like, let me explain to you what the moral of this is. Let me lay it all out. Let me explain to you what you should be thinking and feeling about it.
00:21:43
Speaker
In fact, when, ah when, a when a story or film is doing that, I i find myself going,
00:21:50
Speaker
And I'm really loving the journey of watching images and sound and movement and then kind of going, what do I think this means to me? What do I want to take out of this?
00:22:02
Speaker
um And I'm doing it all sober. So it's not like, I'm not like, like I, you know, like, cause I, I've had people over the years be like, oh yeah, like I had a trend, you know, transcendent experience, you know, taking an edible or something, which I totally get, but I'm, it's really just been, I've been craving that.
00:22:21
Speaker
I started reading, there is a, i was recommended this book and it is, there's a very famous director named Andre Tarkovsky. And he is a Russian director who made just some of the most like defining eras of Soviet filmmaking um and his movies.
00:22:42
Speaker
and I, oh, I want to shout out Allie, Allie Gordon specifically. About a year ago, Allie and Marty had just moved to LA. Allie was in VHS Christmas Carol and is an amazing singer, improviser, writer.
00:22:55
Speaker
Also Wolverine, go blue. Yes, also Wolverine. and she And she and her husband, Marty, have impeccable like tastes. like They're really just interested in art and things. And they invited us to go see a screening of Tarkovsky's...
00:23:11
Speaker
um Stalker at vidiots, which is this cool, like indie kind of theater in Los Angeles. Stalker is a three and a half or three hour, three and a half hour journey into like hell.
00:23:26
Speaker
It is a surrealist, bizarre. It's like on its face. It's like a sci-fi movie about these characters going into this place called the zone where they're trying to figure out what, what mystery is going on. But there are scenes in this movie that,
00:23:43
Speaker
Okay, I'll give you example. There's one scene that I think lasts for seven and a half minutes where it starts on these three men in like this kind of dilapidated building with water that's raining outside and so the water's pouring down. And it like starts on a semi-close-up shot, meet me medium shot of them.
00:24:02
Speaker
And it's a seven and a half minute pullback. Seven and a half minutes. i'm And i'm not kidding. Seven and half minutes of just pulling back until we're in a wide.
00:24:13
Speaker
And I remember this specific shot we were watching in a theater. I would never watch this at home. I would never. I would put off for two minutes and be like, next. But because I was in this movie, because I had been invited, because I was like, all right let's go see it. We were kind of sitting there. we' We're kind of stuck there.
00:24:28
Speaker
And I had this really interesting experience where there were these long extended sequences that would start where I'd be like, interesting. And then about two minutes in, I'd be like, oh my God, okay, I get it.
00:24:39
Speaker
And then I'd start to get irritated and annoyed and be like, I understand what you're doing. Let's move on. and then I would kind of start to the resentment would like give way to um resignation. All right, I'm just going to sit in this moment.
00:24:55
Speaker
And then I would start to look at the screen and be like, it's really beautiful. And then I would start to get interested in kind of leaning and be like, what am I, I'm really feeling like I literally had this whole gamut of emotion consistently to that film where I'd be infuriated, resigned,
00:25:15
Speaker
re-intrigued and then sort of enter enter this like meditative kind of state. And after, after the movie, I don't know if I love the movie, but I couldn't stop thinking about it. And there are images and moments and, and, and sequences that are burned into my head that are so, it made me feel a very specific kind of way. The way you feel when you wake up from a dream and you go,
00:25:41
Speaker
what was that feeling that I had? But it's so present. You couldn't quite explain what you experienced, but you're like, I know what I felt. So I've been on this journey for the past few months of of seeking out like what are films like that? What are stories like that?
00:25:55
Speaker
I'm actually even interested in maybe books too. But right now I've kind of been on this film journey. I've been reading his book, which is very much about filmmaking that was recommended to me as a just a phenomenal. Richard Linklater, one of my favorite directors, recommends it and said it was a seminal book for him in thinking about how to tell stories and how to think about movies as not just a device to deliver plot.
00:26:17
Speaker
but a way to create feeling and immersion. And Tarkovsky stuff is weird. It is weird. It is weird. it is weird. But, but you bring yourself to it. And then there was a really wonderful interview and I swear I'm almost done with this thought, but there's a wonderful interview with David Lynch that I watched a few years back prior to his passing. And if you ever watched David Lynch movies, they're weird. They're weird. Very. a lot of times it don't make any sense.
00:26:44
Speaker
And I always struggle with David Lynch movies for years because I'd be like, i so I'm supposed to like appreciate these, but I'd just be like, fuck this stupid. I can't. And it was an interview with him where he was talking about why he wanted to make movies. And he was like, well, I really didn't want to make movies. I'm paraphrasing, but he's like, I wanted to, I was a painter.
00:27:01
Speaker
He's like, I was a painter and i wanted to make my paintings move. And I figured the the way I could do that is, is, is making a movie. Yeah. And when I started to go think about his movies as ah as a painting or start to think about Phil and Lynn Ramsey does the same similar thing with Dime I Love. I'm a huge fan of her work. She's done some phenomenal movies. She did a movie called You're Never Really Here with Joaquin Phoenix.
00:27:25
Speaker
We need to talk about Kevin, but this new movie, it's her it's Jennifer Lawrence and Robert Pattinson. It's about um Jennifer Lawrence ah sort of struggling with postpartum. And it's a very surreal and very bizarre and very dreamlike movie where if I was to tell you the plot, you'd be like, that sounds incomprehensible.
00:27:45
Speaker
But watching interviews with people talking about the movie, it's like it captured the feeling of what it is to go through that incredibly profoundly difficult process of postpartum depression. And that's like a very literal thing, but it it takes that and it teases it out. And in it's like, I could, I can't relate to that.
00:28:10
Speaker
But I feel like I experienced a slice of this overwhelming thing that colors every fabric of every moment of your day. and Anyway, I'm rambling. But i I've been on this journey of really being in seeking out nonlinear...
00:28:29
Speaker
non-explicitly plot-driven stories and letting them wash over me a bit and not being so pedantic about, well, what is the theme what are the themes?
00:28:41
Speaker
What is the plot? And just being like, what did i what did I think? What did I feel? So anyway, that's what I've been into. It's so funny that you're ah bringing this up because there's a lot of themes that are to cross over with what I wanted to talk about this week. But the whole time you were talking about this, the the one movie that immediately popped into my head was Tree of Life.
00:29:03
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Which is another, it's a Terrence Malick film um from what over a decade ago at this, I think 2011. Do you know my connection to Tree of Life? Yes. I've heard that story. If you get the Criterion Collection, you can see Kim's name right there. get my My wife, Kim, she was in Tree of Life. She worked on that. She worked on it for about a month or two. Yeah. She has the credit.
00:29:26
Speaker
She got the famous Malick cut. The Malick cuts a lot of movies, but yes, one hundred percent Malick very much works in, Immersion yes versus linear plot.
00:29:39
Speaker
And I got to say, 2011 James had a hard time watching this movie. It was, I just, and I, again, I had a similar feeling. was like, I'm supposed to like this, but I am just so, I feel so removed from anything. I don't feel connected. it where where's Where's my solid ground in this? um And I wonder now, I've not revisited it, but I'm also kind of on this, this kick right now. It's like, yeah, give me something that's a little bit off, a little bit different. Maybe I can pull the theme for myself. And I wonder if I watched it today, how I would feel.
00:30:12
Speaker
not i go ahead. Is that a, do you think it's, is that just getting older? Is it because that's the question for me is like, and maybe it's not even maybe maybe trying to answer the question of why am i into this is is honestly at a useless endeavor, because that's kind of the point of a lot of the work. This work is to not.
00:30:36
Speaker
There's no clear-cut answer, but I am curious. I'm just like, why is this resonating with me now? Is that just the trajectory of being a human? I don't know. I don' i don't have a good thesis. No, i know I think it is. I think age, just like your palate, changes. You know you decide to eat different foods as you get older. Things that you loved when you were younger are no longer...
00:30:55
Speaker
fun or digestible for you um i think the same goes for the content oh i hate that word the media that we take in right but you mean it you mean content in the right way that's that is like the actual yeah that's the actual that's what the word actually means it means what is inside of a thing so i appreciate you using the right way okay thank you thank you um but yeah so our favorite content creator terrence malick yeah We'd be banished from ever making anything ever again for calling him that. um But no, what I would say is that ah there was a time where I could not personally sit down to watch a movie because I knew it had the dedicated time
00:31:38
Speaker
to invest in this thing and and watch it. And I just wouldn't do it. I had too much going on. I had to be outside. I'd be going this, there, and the other. And now it's almost like I have a need and a desire to be enveloped in a world that is different from my own. And so I'm seeking that next movie. I want a nice show. Like, yeah, 30 minute shows are not a problem, but i want I want to be gripped into something. So there's almost like sometimes when I get to binge watch something, I'm kind of happy that I get to. Because I want to be stuck there for a little bit.
00:32:08
Speaker
um and and your And your need for escapism at this point, I think, is is kind of universal. It's why something like Stranger Things worked. you know It was both nostalgia, but also taking us somewhere that we we we can't see outside. um i like to I like to call certain things slice of life.
00:32:31
Speaker
which is, I think, you know just regular movies or TV shows where you're just watching everyday people doing things, and that's fine. But right now, I think the way that we have been approaching storytelling from a modern writing perspective is very much just slice of life. And to me, that's boring.
00:32:48
Speaker
i and i don't enjoy that. I don't want that. Give me – so in our episode zero, I talked about good luck, have fun, don't die. I think I said that correctly. But you know that's taking what could be you know just a slice of life, but giving it an extra layer of wackiness and sci-fi and stuff. So like, yeah, it could happen today, but there's something so fun and inventive about the way we're going about it. And to your point, when you're talking about these films – it It gives perspective. It gives a point of view. It gives something for us to dive into that is not what we're seeing out on the street every single day. And that's what I want to look at now. That's where that's where my palette has gone to, is give me that escapism, give me that surrealism, because now my mind is opening and now I'm seeing the world a little bit differently.
Curiosity and Creativity in Art
00:33:36
Speaker
So I think you if I would just if I were to answer your question for you, I'd say, yeah, you you've grown older and you're a little bit more curious about the world. And wow, where where it could take you.
00:33:47
Speaker
ah You know, it comes back to our our sort of thesis of like this, this whole endeavor of like being curious. yeah A year ago, i was in a pretty cynical place because of just various things, work, life. I felt like whatever ah my own. I felt like I stagnant my own creativity and a variety of circumstances, classes I took stepping away from certain things led me to a place where I decided for the last literally the last it's been almost ah almost about a year of this kind of journey of getting curious and falling in love with the ah elements of creativity again, not the outcome.
00:34:25
Speaker
And I think that might be the biggest shift genuinely in my life in the biggest year in in this year is re falling in love with process and exploration.
00:34:37
Speaker
and and the outcome is almost an irrelevant. The outcome will be whatever it needs to become. And I wonder if the reason I'm really, yeah, to your point, connecting with a lot of these things is they're, they're just reminding me of what the joy of like experiencing a sensation, experiencing a sound, an image, a thing that all is com composed together. Like that is that That is the joy of it. not And how did it all wrap up and what does it all mean?
00:35:09
Speaker
And I wonder in some ways, I i feel like a ah real freedom recently in my own life, personally in the last year of of caring less and less about what does it all lead to and just being a little bit more, wow i I get to do this today. That's cool. And I don't know exactly where that's going to go. And yet I'm i'm seeing in my own life that approaching it that way is actually, i think, opening more doors because I'm not so just trying to strangle everything for, to make it into something else. So I wonder if like, that's part of it too. And that, that is what's so magic is,
00:35:47
Speaker
And it's, you know, it's hard because sometimes, you know, when I when I watch films like this and and somebody, but do do you like it? Do you recommend it? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if I could recommend it to anybody else.
00:35:58
Speaker
But for some reason, at this point in time, getting curious again about like. just essential human experience and feeling and emotion. It feels like the antidote to the flattening of everything through technology, through, through this, the crushing weight of capitalism. Like it feels like getting to the essentials of taste, touch, sound, smell, taste, sensory things in a world that feels so just compressed, it makes me feel alive again. and I'm like, Oh, maybe that's the point. Maybe that's the point of art is to just go.
00:36:42
Speaker
i feel, I hear, I see, i experience, not, Well, what is it? what you yeah What's the algorithm that leads to the ultimate like desired outcome? you know Yeah. Yeah. And also, too, like maybe – sorry. No, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. I'm um what about rambling.
00:36:59
Speaker
No, i was going to say one of my favorite films, unironically, I mean this wholeheartedly, is Scott Pilgrim versus the world. Great movie. And ah the reason I love it is because it's a simple story about a guy that has a crush on a girl. but we all Now, granted, it is adapted from the graphic novel, so I do understand that. However, Edgar Wright just had such a vision to bring that to life that you sometimes I just want to watch a movie that's fun. And that, to me, is a fun movie.
00:37:32
Speaker
From beginning to end, I'm enthralled. it's ah The way that they use the text from the comic books into the film, like I just love that. I love the way that they um use their camera, like whip pans for certain ah for certain effects. you know what That's something you can't necessarily do like with a comedy unless it's a broad comedy and you want to do a lot of sight gags.
00:37:56
Speaker
but um But just taking a simple concept and and and finding the the greatest way to augment that and i that Again, that to me, that's a form of storytelling. And and I'm almost looking for more movies and and TV to take risks. Do that because then I want to watch. I want to see how you're going to pull this off and do this next. So maybe it's a little bit of like, I want spectacle. And then I'll get to that point in a little bit. But yeah, so I think that's what I'm i'm craving for and in that stuff. Totally. And I think too, like i and this is kind of the last thought. and know I think I've said everything I can say on it. but
00:38:33
Speaker
I also think what I'm really finding gratifying and and meaningful in this moment is anything that triggers and reconnects me to reminding me that I am here in this moment, that I am present.
00:38:49
Speaker
And that sounds so that sounds so simple, but but I really mean that. and it it's an incredibly cathartic thing to just hear a – I guess I've been on this very sensorial journey.
00:39:00
Speaker
That sounds so pretentious. That sounds so pretentious. Hey, we can be a little pretentious every once in a while. It's fine. We've earned that, right? But what i mean is because I spend so much time on a screen and I spend so much time in virtual space or so much time, we spend a lot of time by default trying to film ourselves for an audition that hopefully will become something or or like we're always conceptualizing the thing that doesn't exist yet or that we ah are trying to make an opportunity for ourself that we hope will become something in the future. And that's just part of our job and we've chosen that.
00:39:37
Speaker
But there's something incredibly healing about art that just brings you right into the present. And it like it just it sounds and textures and colors and feelings of like this is just this is it. Like there's no there's no it doesn't lead to something else.
00:39:56
Speaker
It's just like about the experience of being in this moment. And I think 12 year old me, 15 year old me would just be like, oh, who cares? The the present is boring. I want to I want exciting. I want awesome. And there's, and I do still, I do still want to create and make things and I want to open doors in the future, but I'm just finding something really healing, almost meditative maybe about just being like, wow, this is like, this is art stripped down to kind of its essential elements. And yeah,
00:40:28
Speaker
it's not too clever. It's not trying to, it's not trying to do, it's not trying to do anything other than just let you feel what this moment really is. and I'm just finding that really like cathartic and healing and re-centering on this is why I want, this is what art is. It's an expression of, of being alive in this moment. So, um,
00:40:52
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think too, i was talking to Sinead, our friend Sinead Prasad recently about this too, with craving that in like theater and like immersive theater experiences and how that's something I'm so interested in. And I find myself not as interested in maybe commercial like spectacle and things like that, because I love things that, that literally sensorially tactilely, like I can touch, it can feel like, go wow, I'm So, yeah, I think I think in the in the that's my that is also my antidote to like when people say, you know, AI and and all these things that the technology and these tools that are coming to sort of flatten the human experience.
00:41:31
Speaker
um Like, I think you're one of your best things you can do is go experience art that is incredibly visceral and tactile and and and. sensorial to be like, this is this is, I'm here, you're here, we're here together. Yeah. There you go. That's what I'm into. That's awesome. Love that. I'm so glad you ended on that point because that ties directly into what I wanted to talk about.
Innovations in Theater and Storytelling
00:41:55
Speaker
What are you into? So I'm into this adaptation, I have to call it, of a musical ah that I saw last week, Here Lies Love. Now, um there's a wonderful history about this. So it started as a concept album, David Byrne and Fatboy Slim. I believe they made it back in 2010. And we're talking they had Cyndi Lauper, Tori Amos, Sia, All kinds of, ah Florence Wells, i i think, was also on it. um And what it is, is this concept album telling the story of the first lady of the Philippines, Imelda Marcos, ah extremely controversial figure in the Philippines.
00:42:34
Speaker
And you learn why during the course of this 90 minutes. ah Started as a concept album. They then did an off-Broadway run. It was very popular. ah They did also have a ah ah Broadway run as well. It did not last as long on Broadway.
00:42:51
Speaker
I don't want to say it's partly it's because of this, but the staging of it, it was immersive. So there was a massive dance floor and as an audience, there was standing room. And so you were seeing different pockets as the show was going on around you.
00:43:05
Speaker
I think that's cool. For Broadway, that's great. We've now learned since then you know things like Sleep No More, which is the most immersive theater in New York. That's doing really well. They revived Phantom as an immersive experience that is in ah pretty much in the same vein as Sleep No More right now.
00:43:22
Speaker
know three people on that show right now, which too which is crazy. I have a few people. i know very Very direct connection to that. Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. um And so um immersive theater in that sense, especially for New York, um there is a place for that. And I'm so glad that they are are experimenting experimenting with that more. That being said, what I saw last week, they reimagined Here here Lies Love. um It's in a thrust stage over here at the um the Mark Taper Forum by the Amundsen Theater.
00:43:52
Speaker
um And so what they did is they, rather than doing the dance floor, they did kind of make it more of a three-quarter thrust. However, there are elements where performers are in the audience, sometimes right next to you. So they are trying to galvanize you and bring you in, partly because I think that show needs it because you are...
00:44:11
Speaker
as a viewer, at a certain point, a participant, you are one of the the Filipinos who are going through the turmoil that Imelda has put on these people. So they they kind of put you in in their spot a little bit in their staging of it. i well The whole time i was watching Here Lies Love, it was reminding me for many reasons of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Evita.
00:44:39
Speaker
If you've seen that, it's Ava Peron, the story of her life. Both of these shows are about a young woman in a rags-to-riches story in which she marries into wealth and status and privilege. And the people, i think, I would say for different reasons, but I think Evita kind of whitewashes exactly what happened in Ava Peron's life. Whereas... um You know, i never I've never seen... I've heard songs from it and I've seen clips, but I've never seen the show...
00:45:06
Speaker
I've never seen the movie and I've never experienced the show. So I know very little about Evita besides, you know, the don't cry for me Argentina moment. Iconic moment. Yes. ah Don't see the movie. It's trash.
00:45:17
Speaker
But the show, the show, um i have, a lot I've been in the show. I've seen the show. It's, I think it's great. But like I said, in terms of giving an accurate depiction of, who she was. I don't know if it does the best job. Here Lies Love, however, is a pretty on-the-nose storytelling of like, hey, look at what this woman did to these people.
00:45:38
Speaker
um And ah I have to first say the cast was fantastic over here at the Mark Taper Forum. Just really, like, some of the best voices I've heard in forever, especially to gather an entire Filipino cast, which never happens um and and in mainstream theater like that.
00:45:58
Speaker
um But what i what i what I really took away from it, as someone who is a fan of Fatboy Slim, I remember in the 90s I was listening to all of his stuff, and then appreciating David Byrne as I got older and understanding what he and Talking Heads were doing with music, and to watch a show that where you can recognize someone's style so quickly, because there were definitely songs where like, I could hear like, oh, that's a fat boy slim beat. um There's another song where I could hear, oh yeah, this is how David Byrne, like this is how he sings or how, or um ah how he that's his patter, that he likes to do that. um But to watch the way they moved around the theater space and brought you into this story, that's the kind of theater that,
00:46:41
Speaker
that I love. And that's, that's the stuff I want to do. Was it? Oh, go ahead. was gonna ask, is it with the use of the space where they were they in the audience? Was the audience like on stage? Like what was the what was kind of the the design element of bringing the audience into it? ah There is a literal moment where they bring some people on stage. So yes, there is that.
00:47:03
Speaker
However, we are still in our seats the whole time, but there are platforms that they built in the audience, in the house. Oh, cool. So it comes out into your your world. Yes, yes, yes. So they're they're amongst the crowd as well. um i I loved it so much. And if you're going to do a biographical musical, i think you've got to elevate it.
00:47:26
Speaker
But then I was thinking, it's like but that's not just for biographical musicals. I feel like we're getting a lot of, well, so right now we're doing a lot of movie adaptations for musicals, okay? We had Outsiders, um The Lost Boys, Death Becomes Her. you know like Right now, that's the big thing, is to bring out these preexisting movies that everyone loved, and now let's just make a stage version. And i'm not this is not to discredit anybody. This is not to tell them that the work is bad, whatever.
00:47:53
Speaker
But when I was growing up, um I guess I had this this idea in my head that theater was a space in which you could experiment and toy with and you could get away with higher concepts because of the inherent theatricality, it's in the name, of what you could put on stage. We can augment our reality a little bit. We can do something different.
00:48:15
Speaker
I want to say the best example of this is that Sondheim – who I did not appreciate until I got much older. He was doing essentially slice of life musicals, right? He was taking you know something like Company, a guy just like getting up in his age and just trying to figure out what his life is is like. um Merrily We Roll Along, a musical about writers. you know like Just little things, you know but he his approach to lyricism and his music was something that, you know, took it just a a notch up. You know, he was, he's like, how can I emulate your heartbeat in this moment? How can I, how can I really tap into the tension? How can I get, get that yearning? And I, and, and so what he did for musical theater, and so many people have tried to recreate, I think rather unsuccessfully, he was able to just give us an element of storytelling that,
00:49:03
Speaker
I, when I was younger, probably wouldn't have noticed it, would not have appreciated it. But now I almost want that. i mean like That's why I'm not excited about all the theater that's coming out all the time because to me it just feels like, ah okay, it this feels like something you could have done in a song cycle and probably would have served the same purpose.
00:49:20
Speaker
um I, I, I'm not a composer myself. I'm definitely not a lyricist. And so I, you know, i I can't say what the exact formula is, but I wish theater would go back to its roots of wanting to experiment and challenge and change because watching something like this production of Here Lies Love last week, that's what I want.
00:49:41
Speaker
That's what I want to feel. I i want that energy, that excitement, that that newness. um And i i a as someone who's auditioned for certain shows, sometimes I'm not as excited, if I'm going to be completely honest, because it doesn't feel like I'm a part of something really fun or or great. It just feels like, well, maybe I'll get insurance weeks if I do this. And that's not why i got into this business. You know, man, you point to something. It's kind of reminds me what I was saying. I think maybe with what I'm craving with this sort of nonlinear sort of abstracting, but like the flattening of art, the, and I mean, flattening in the sense of,
00:50:22
Speaker
Everything is the lowest kind of common denominator where it's like, what's just the most, the the most, I mean, I saw the most, I saw the most upsetting thing, not the most upsetting thing. There's no upsetting fix in the world. Let's be real. um But I saw, um I saw a quote um from Pete doctor the other day where he was talking about Elio, the, the, the film that came out. Yeah.
00:50:46
Speaker
Yeah. And he basically said something to the effect of like, I've realized like really, uh, at the end of the day, like we just need to make movies that are as like well liked and popular as possible essentially. it,
00:51:02
Speaker
You know, and it's Pixar is a good example in a strange way of of like they're they started off making such sort of specific and interesting and weird little things.
00:51:15
Speaker
And the reason they became so successful is because that specificity and that nuance connected. And then they went, oh, everybody likes it. So now we just got to flatten all the we got to stand off all the edges and now make it just as widespread as possible. And I think what you're pointing to in theater has has happened where It's like theater is magic because it doesn't have to be literal because it doesn't have to, because we're, we're, so we're in a theater. We're suspending our disbelief. I know it's, but yeah, when you're just like, Hey, do you like that movie?
00:51:44
Speaker
you like that movie from 1993?
00:51:47
Speaker
here it is there is yeah they're singing now i'm not listen there are genuinely some wonderful adaptations and i'm not trying to diss the notion of an adaptation of a film or something but yeah you i was recently on a kick of watching just interviews with sondheim talking specifically about sunday in the park with george was watching these clips of this show and i was like this would never get made, ever get made now. Never, never, never. And it's so beautiful and, and lush and wonderful and thoughtful. And it was a smash. Yeah. It's one of my favorite Broadway scores ever created.
00:52:31
Speaker
By far. And and it just it just wouldn't get made. Yeah. like yeah and And I mean, i I guess I can't say that 100% knowing that, but I don't. I have a straw. had to put money my money on it. I just go looking at the kind of shows that get off the ground. I go, I don't think that. well here's Okay. Well, here's to your point. I think it's because Broadway and same with with Hollywood right now. They're in this era of we need to guarantee we're going to make money So they're not in the business necessarily of art. They're in the business of making something that is the most palatable for the widest audience.
00:53:04
Speaker
The thing is, if you're trying to make something for everybody, you're going to make something for nobody. It will find an audience. It might run a little bit. But if we're looking at the track record of a lot of shows on Broadway right now, there no one's really doing great.
00:53:19
Speaker
um From my understanding, the most money that they can make is if the show goes on the road because ticket prices in New York are way too expensive, no ah let alone just getting there.
00:53:30
Speaker
And so if you're going to spend all your money, you want to go on a show that you know you're going to like. And it's not if it's not a guarantee you're going to like it, then it's out the door. so ah And that's indicative of entertainment in general. So I can't just say it's just on Broadway.
00:53:44
Speaker
um But yeah, but if but the thing is, again, if if the people in charge, if the people with the money aren't investing in art for art's sake, all they're doing is making a show that they think they can make a little money on and then on to the next one if that one fails.
00:53:59
Speaker
We just want everyone to be happy. We just wait we don't want to have to people to have to think about this movie and like reflect on it and wonder what that...
00:54:08
Speaker
that then why, then why? it's like, Oh, just so it's just, it is just a, it's just a theme park ride at that point. You know, it's, and it's like, what, what?
00:54:20
Speaker
and that And that, that is how so much of what theater kind of has become by default. And I i guess I can't quite necessarily blame people for going, well, how do we, because we know theater is insanely expensive The overhead is massive. So then I'm sure producers are like, well, we got to just what are people going to be guaranteed? But then it becomes just constantly chasing that. And and then you you you lose something essential. And and I part of me goes, am I just like the old man, you know, shaking his fist at a cloud? And I was like, no, I don't think so.
00:54:54
Speaker
ah There is something has shifted culturally in in these spaces and risks are just not taken. And I don't know where the, I don't know where the blame is. I don't know if it's, if it's audience taste or if it's capital, i don't know what the, but, but it is evident in the art that is getting financed and produced that,
00:55:17
Speaker
how few risks are being taken. And so it's sounds like with, with this production, it it's like, there's something magical when you're like, wow, this is, this is different and and weird and interesting. And like, man, and when you, I don't know, it's crazy. Cause I say all that. I say, i understand when people do that, but then you look at like so sinners this year, that's a massive risk.
00:55:42
Speaker
It's a massive creative risk. People showed up. People loved it. It was a financial success. It's probably going to take them a bunch of Oscars. like You can do like, hey, people will show up if you give them something.
00:55:58
Speaker
I just that notion of we can't well we can't we can't talk about anything in these movies. Yes, you can. can't we can't go there in our shows. Yes, you can. I fully reject that. It's the way I felt about everything everywhere all at once too. That was a huge risk. And look how much that paid off. You know, you asked a question earlier. And so, you know, you don't know where it kind of fell off. But part of it is that...
00:56:23
Speaker
because we started putting so much attention into film and television and also media illiteracy, what we stopped doing, is really it comes down to arts education, right? If we're not exposing people or not having things accessible to people, all of a sudden they're just its it fades away. um So by that I mean, you know,
00:56:43
Speaker
Think about it all the times in high school, the jocks are just like, oh, laughing at you because you're doing the high school play or whatever. It kind of starts there, right? You're already told, oh, you're different. You're weird if you're into the theater, if you're into music or something like that. And then as you get older, ah you start recognizing like, oh, yeah, my school, they put all the money into the sports teams, but nothing into the arts department.
00:57:02
Speaker
You know, we try, depending on the schools, depending, because like my school, we at least tried to take us to like a play or a musical or something at least once a year. But not every school gets that. Not every county. and you know what not That's not accessibility. um And so if some people don't make it until their 20s or 30s before they see a professional Broadway play or tour or something to that effect, they just don't even know that there's And availability and accessibility of that. So then of sudden we just, we have this media illiteracy in which we think that the only thing that matters is what's on your screen or what's at the movie theater.
00:57:39
Speaker
And then of course, we can we can get into music too. But I think that's a whole other conversation now because with all the streaming platforms, there's almost too much music and it's hard for any one person to stand out. So you're lucky if you do.
00:57:50
Speaker
But with this mentality that
The Importance of Arts Education
00:57:52
Speaker
only if the only thing that matters is movies and TV, that's why you get ignorant comments like the one that came from Timothee Chalamet. And you're saying that an art form like opera, art form like ballet that have existed for 400 and 500 –
00:58:08
Speaker
to say that, oh, well, it's struggling. Well, it's struggling because of attitudes like his. It's struggling because someone who is getting multimillion dollar contracts is out here denigrating the hard work of people that have to put on live performance. He can fuck up a line and they can say, cut, refixing things up. They can edit it.
00:58:27
Speaker
What these people are doing night in and night out, sacrificing their bodies, sacrificing their feet, their voices, that their entire their entire being to entertain. And they're still entertaining people. I don't want to get this misconception that you know no one's going, that these theaters are sitting there. The Met is still a big deal.
00:58:44
Speaker
All right. ah Alvin Ailey is still a great big deal. So I don't. So why? And also, i I'll let you say something in just a second. But no, no, no. you're good. The fact that Timothee Chalamet has not only brought this up in this recent interview. This is this thing that he said about seven years ago at a completely separate event. So I don't know who hurt him, but he has a personal grievance against opera and ballet. Two things that I know for a fact he can't do.
00:59:10
Speaker
And I hope that people that heard this comment, but have some reverence for art can understand how flawed his logic is and can support these art forms that have endured centuries and wars and censorship to push the boundaries of what live performance can be. I 100% agree. I made a i actually made a tick tock about this. i was like, I shouldn't talk about it, but i am not going to defend his comments in any capacity. But I do think it points to a greater issue, which is access to arts education as a an essential part of our culture. What I find really disappointing about those comments is I'm like, dude, you are one of the biggest movie stars in the world.
00:59:56
Speaker
What he is highlighting This is my good faith read, although i don't I'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not not trying to defend, I promise. A good faith read is like he's pointing to a very real problem, which is a lack of funding and attention that these things get.
01:00:13
Speaker
there's no solution provided. It's just, well, those things are dead. So I don't want to be, and that's what I find. ah That's what I find to be really like um cynical, especially because i I believe his mom is a dancer and like was a dancer and a Broadway dancer. And so I, I like, I go, I do think the reason he might be referencing this is he grew up around that world, seeing, seeing it not have the sort of voice and the whatever. And I'm like,
01:00:43
Speaker
Do you know what the solution is to that though? Emphasizing and and proactively advocating for arts education, access. Like one of the things about like,
01:00:54
Speaker
dance and opera is those are extraordinarily difficult fields to be able to financially train in before you ever make money and make a living at it. You have to, you have to dedicate yourself to it. And, and because it has become a more insular art form and tickets are really expensive and training is, it becomes this thing that gets smaller and niche and smaller a niche. And I'm like,
01:01:19
Speaker
And I know you it was an off-the-cuff, it was an off-handed comment, but I'm like, you do have a chance as like on this platform to like advocate for like art artistic resources and access and and education and awareness of them. And access to them has been limited. And that cuts off. I mean, it's even like, we know this firsthand with trying to get theater projects funded. And we're super lucky, obviously, with some of the projects we've worked on that we have an awesome fan base. But I frequently talk to theater makers who have been like,
01:01:49
Speaker
how the heck do you guys get funding? Like, well, we tapped into this. we're We're privileged to be part of this thing that had people, but it is so hard to get funding because people don't think it's valuable. And so I find that the comment to be so frustrating because you go highlight instead of just accept. It's a very nihilistic thing of like, yeah,
01:02:11
Speaker
well, the, the, the interest is not there. So let it die versus like, Hey, there's actually something of value and beauty. And there's a, there's a really, as I was discussing earlier, like it is art for the sake of art. It is re getting in touch with what it is to be alive. What is it be human to sing, to dance, to move? I just go, there's a chance to like really point out what the issue is. Yeah. It's kind of like being like the CEO of a tech company and being like,
01:02:42
Speaker
Misinformation. is it it sucks, right? do you want to your do You want to help you can fix that you can want to you could be the one. You could you could be you could be part of ah of a coalition of people that could advocate to help those things and help those artists develop. And I guess like I go, I don't see, i don't see the difference. Yes. Film and and opera and theater and and dance and these things are, they're different arts, but, but they are, they are in conversation with each other and film, film is a culmination of, of those art forms coming together without, without dance and movement and singing and all these things, like we don't get to film. And so it's like,
01:03:24
Speaker
support support your speak out about the thing you know and um what is being identified is true in the sense of i remember the first time i i went to see a um a symphony and i remember thinking like oh it's gonna be so boring like i was like i was like a kid we went to the bass hall in fort worth and i was thinking oh it's gonna be so boring we sit there and listen to music for two hours And it was incredible.
01:03:51
Speaker
And it was it was magical. It was transcendent. i was I was visualizing images in my head. It was sweeping. It was majestic. it It really put into me a deep love of classical music. And I got that because my mom was able to take me to see to see it and to experience it.
01:04:12
Speaker
And so just think access and access to education... is the antidote to that cynicism. yeah I hope it doesn't sound like I'm defending those comments. I'm really not. To be fair, you are not the only person I've seen that's tried to you know make a little bit more sense of what he said. um and and Because I think two things can be true. I think it is true that arts, education, accessibility are two very big things. like That's my biggest gripe with Broadway is that there are so many wonderful performances that many people will never see unless you go to the Lincoln Center Library and get the archival footage. But even then...
01:04:46
Speaker
you're going to have to fly to New York in order to get that. Not everyone can do that. So Broadway needs to find a better way to make some of these shows more accessible. And thus people, i think will have a greater interest in those things.
01:04:57
Speaker
And then as well as arts education, you know, not just band and high school choir and all that stuff, but just really let people know that there are careers in this that you can go into many avenues of the arts at an early age because not every school is getting the same exposure of that knowledge. So we have to do a much better job, especially in this country, about offering those opportunities to people and that education. The other thing that is also true is that Timothee Chalamet has made that point twice, years apart, and neither time did he try to clarify his statements? The kinds of movies that I would assume he and and and artists like him would want to make,
01:05:37
Speaker
um those will go away too. The interesting, independent, off-the-beaten-path things like... those will also be on the chopping block. People will have the same thought of like, Oh God, an indie movie. Oh my god It's an arts movie.
01:05:55
Speaker
Please show me some guys blowing up. It's like when we got tech bros on on Twitter being like, look, I made Jason Statham fight Tom Cruise or whatever. Yeah. You go they're coming for that kind of art too.
01:06:08
Speaker
They being the, the consolidation, the flattening of everything interesting and nuanced and, and creative. So Yes, you might go like, well, indie film feels like it has a healthier voice in the in the collective cultural zeitgeist than opera or ballet for now.
01:06:29
Speaker
But the same issues will, the same issues will come for those spaces where it's like, if you don't prioritize media literacy, access to art, access to stories, access to the tools that young artists need to get started, to be able to do these things, then no one's going to care in 10 or 15 years. We've already seen it. We've already seen the middle, the sort of, um,
01:06:54
Speaker
that like mid budget movie doesn't exist anymore. You get $250 million dollars movies or you get, you know, these tiny little movies and you know, it's cool that like actor, a few act only a few actors in the world, like Timothee Chalamet have been able to like thread the needle and make some more artistic fare and the smaller budget range that still get, that is a dying thing.
01:07:19
Speaker
And if you don't support arts at access, that will be the next on the chopping block. So I just go, you are in community with each other here and and the success of theater and opera and ballet is is tied to the success of like this this medium as well.
01:07:38
Speaker
um And so i think it's like just thinking from a communal perspective versus like... I'm going to go with the one that like, it's the thing. It's like movie movies are dying. Like, like let's be real.
Supporting Diverse Art Forms and Artists
01:07:52
Speaker
We are watching right now the death of movies as a cultural force. Kids do not care.
01:08:01
Speaker
I got, I've taught acting classes where the class, nobody in the class watched movies. There's on the, on the film cast, my friend Dave Chen was a film cast and they've been having this ongoing conversation about this, where they've been talking about how young people don't really care about movies.
01:08:16
Speaker
ah ah The film professor would like wrote in and said, I have an entire class of filmmakers. None of them want to make movies. They just want to make content. So movies are, these this is a dying art form too. like The art is not dying, but and but the capitalistic hold and the chokehold that these these this consolidation of the powers that be have, we we see right now as Paramount is is set to acquire ah Warner Brothers, yeah that's going to mean that thousands of people are going laid off. There's going to be less places to get your stuff made. so
01:08:55
Speaker
I think like that to me is like, don't, don't be throwing stones when the, the house that you live in is also on fire. We got to help each other as artists and advocate for art as an essential part of our culture.
01:09:10
Speaker
ah ah Otherwise it's all going to, that's what they And that's what these the tech companies want that. They want to say, don't need art. Just type in a little sentence. type Type in what you want to see and it'll just spit it out for you.
01:09:25
Speaker
So like we got to fight for like art. sucks that these incredibly smart people are using their their abilities to eradicate another industry that they have nothing to do. it It's like they – why do we have generative genative ai in the first i just did it i'll i'll so I'll always be mad about it. I'll always be the old man screaming at the sky about this. Also, too, that we have AI, which in theory could be like, throw it at cancer research or something. Yes. Throw it at, and they're like, no, no, no, no. You know what we're going to use this for? You know what our main thing is going to be? It's going to be like faking Tom Cruise in a movie. Yes. But I will say,
01:10:13
Speaker
it points to my opinion, how essential art is that that's the first thing that they want to do. that that That's the main, that's the main emphasis because they know if you can have a voice in culture, then you, you can.
01:10:29
Speaker
So it's like, it actually points to how powerful of a platform it is and why I think it is, a it is adamant that we hold the line and not, and not like just give that up.
01:10:42
Speaker
um because it is such a force in the world. um and So that's kind of like my, the least cynical take on the whole thing is like, don't, don't be throwing stones, help, help each other out. We all succeed as artists when art it can be seen and experienced and felt and heard. And, you know, the, the, the amount of discipline and dedication it takes to be an artist at that level to to to sing opera oh my god it's it is in other it is an athletic feat that few that is impossible to physically with ballet with i mean it's and it's like it is the same level of dedication that that should be i think admired and like hey we do the same thing i'm dedicated to this craft you're dedicated to yours like amazing let's like let's help each other out yeah because they're coming for us all
01:11:36
Speaker
And on that note, I don't want to overstay our welcome, so we should probably wrap wrap things up. But ah Kurt, do you have anything you want to plug or anything going on in your sphere?
01:11:48
Speaker
um i should have thought about this question. Do I have anything going on? no I mean, okay that's okay. I'll just plug my YouTube channel. There we go there you go. Over my YouTube channel. I've been trying to, and I've been, ah I've been a little absent recently, but I'm making videos about the creative process. It's kind of like stream of conscious videos about creativity, about being an artist, about like the ins and outs that the process of it. So very relevant to this topic. So um it's on youtube.com slash Kurt mega. um It's just kind of me.
01:12:26
Speaker
off the dome talking about stuff that I'm really passionate about. So there we go. sweet See, look at you, you're doing stuff. I should write down ahead of time things to plug. So I don't seem like deer in the headlights.
01:12:38
Speaker
He was like, uh, I, I, I made orange this morning. Um, uh, and on my end, um, uh, it was just released the trailer for season two of dropouts parlor room. I'll be there. yes. With Angela, Mariah, Joey, and Lauren,
01:12:54
Speaker
um We have a nice little um game to play with you all. I don't want to give too much away, but yeah, we'll be on the the next season. So i'll be on the lookout for that. ah So yeah, thank you all for for listening to us rant a little bit. We're just two passionate bros out here in the in the season. know we got... I feel like this is the first episode we really like...
01:13:14
Speaker
We're like clutching our chairs going, ah. ah So hopefully that's appreciated and not, yeah. Yeah. So as always, you can find us on ah on the socials, SoWhatAreYouIntoPod. And then if you have any comments, concerns, questions, if you also want to ah express your ire against Timothee Chalamet, you can email at us so what are you into pod at at gmail.com. And I will read myself to sleep with how much hatred you have for that Yeah.
01:13:44
Speaker
ah And I'm out here being like, i am a I'm a Marty Supreme defender, but i'm having ah um's I'm having a hard time, guys. So, you know, it's... ah If Marty Supreme has no haters, then I am dead. Then I am dead. Oh, man. All right. um Thanks, everybody. And stay curious.
01:14:10
Speaker
Stay curious. Bye.