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James and Curt go Into the Manosphere (+ Post Oscars reaction)
50 Plays2 months ago
Talking out loud about the stuff that won’t leave us alone.
Hosted by James Tolbert and Curt Mega, So, What Are You Into?! is a low-stakes conversation podcast built around cultural curiosity. Each episode we start with the things we’ve been genuinely into lately and see where the conversation goes.
This week’s Intos:
James brings:
• The Oscars
James comes in with a full reaction to this year’s Oscars, what hit, what didn’t, and what the ceremony says about where movies are right now. We get into the winners, the narratives, the performances, and the ongoing question of whether the Oscars still reflect the culture or just try to keep up with it.
Curt brings:
• Louis Theroux’s Inside the Manosphere
Curt dives into Louis Theroux’s exploration of the online manosphere and the world of masculinity, loneliness, and ideology that exists inside it. We talk about what the documentary observes, where it feels insightful, where it feels limited, and the tension between documenting something and actually understanding it.
Along the way the conversation opens up into a bigger discussion about media, framing, and the stories we tell about people and power.
We talk about:
• What the Oscars actually represent in 2026
• The gap between industry narratives and audience reality
• How media portrays masculinity, loneliness, and online spaces
• The difference between observing something and endorsing it
• Why certain ideas stick with you long after you watch something
So… what are you into right now?
Email us:
sowhatareyouintopod@gmail.com
Follow along:
Instagram + TikTok: @sowhatareyouintopod
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Transcript
Introduction and Technical Difficulties
00:00:00
Speaker
Take three. Take three.
00:00:08
Speaker
Yay! I think that I tap it. Get it. Get it. Okay. Well, welcome to welcome to, so what are you
Exploring Music Production
00:00:19
Speaker
into? I'm experimenting with buttons. Today's a technical crapshoot. We are, I am in, i am in my wife's childhood bedroom in Texas.
00:00:29
Speaker
that's That's a euphemism for a bunker. He's in a bunker right now. That's why nothing's working properly. don't where kurt is. So if you see him on the streets, find him and and and bring him back to us. I'm literally sitting i'm sitting on the floor in front of like a window, and I like have my laptop sitting on a chair.
00:00:47
Speaker
um So i'm I'm in Texas working on a project. So I'm here. this I just flew in last night, and so that we're recording. But we said we said we cannot miss an episode.
00:00:58
Speaker
oh The podcast doesn't stop. This is for our souls. We need this, um which is why, as I alluded to earlier, yeah like i I made that theme song. I was like, I'm going to make something cool for this. and I'm learning how to use computer programs. Yeah, it's a vibe. yeah did you do it in Did you use Logic?
00:01:15
Speaker
i did No, I used Ableton and a little bit of GarageBand as well. yeah That's cool. yeah you know i'm just trying to i'm trying to get a new skill in and just learn how to do stuff. I think, it's so funny, I've spent so much time editing audio and a lot of like audio stuff involving sound effects and music, but I have this itch. I like i can feel this pull of, I think I would really enjoy the process of learning about mixing and matt and like mixing songs and like producing songs.
00:01:47
Speaker
You know, I'm not a songwriter per se, but like I I know I've mentioned Chapel Run. This is now the third episode in a row and I'll do it again. But I got so obsessed listening to her producer Dan Nigro talk about just the like layers and composition of specifically that album. And then I got into a rabbit hole like listening to talk about Olivia Rodrigo's stuff that he's produced.
00:02:10
Speaker
And I just like, I watched hours of him just talking about how they approached recording different tracks. And yeah and I went, oh, I think I could totally get lost in this. But i I have not like dipped. I have like, I've observed, I've taken off my shirt and put on sunscreen, but I haven't,
00:02:29
Speaker
I haven't dove in the water yet. You're in the shallow end. You've just touched. I'm waiting? Yeah. Yes. Yes, the waiting. No, because I'm learning a little bit too in that. um it It could be as simple as just throwing in loops and you know just kind of organizing things, changing keys. But I am trying to get a little bit more advanced with how those things. i What I have now is a keyboard, and it has the the pads. So you know you can. Mm-hmm. things you can pause certain stuff like it's it's really fun. I'm very early in my in my learning, ah but i I don't know, but just be something fun to to do in a future.
00:03:05
Speaker
Jeff Blum has done some really cool Twitch streams over over the last few years, yeah just literally just
Going Viral and Social Media Reactions
00:03:11
Speaker
mixing. And and I was talking about it, just how like you could just you never are like done. You're never done. You just have to decide I've done enough, you know, but but it's been interesting watching him mix and master things and and just a lot of it's like, what if we did, what if I threw this on it?
00:03:30
Speaker
And then, I hate that. What if I, you know, oh that's cool. So it's like, it it does feel, It feels purely creative in a way that I kind of miss sometimes that, you know, as an actor, youre you kind of like just say your lines or like, I don't know, there's like certain, but as, but when you're in that space, you just are like, let's just try anything. And that's, i that's fun. I'm, yeah I want to do more of that. i I sometimes feel like I'm on the rails a little too much and I want to be more creative.
00:03:57
Speaker
In general. in In general. um Yeah. Well, so I've been this week. What do you have? How how are things going? ah Things are good. The weeks are blending into themselves. And also, California is in the middle of a heat wave right now.
00:04:10
Speaker
So I've just heard a little bit of James air conditioner. You know what? Blame. Blame global warming, okay? Blame global warming, i because I'm melting. They're like, i'm um this this sound is not quite... Well, guess what? We dropped out of the Paris Climate Accord, so take it up with your local senator.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, that that that's who you should be yelling at, because what what am I going to do about it? All right. Melt cry. That's what I have the capability of doing right now. ah But no, but actually I do have fun anecdote. um So this past weekend was the one year anniversary of my first date with Paul, my boyfriend.
00:04:47
Speaker
And congratulations. Thank you so much. That's like five years in gay years. And we decided to, uh, we went to, wait, how does that, how did that, that's the gay math as a whole other thing, uh, which that's another podcast we'll have to get into. Okay. Well, that'll be another, okay. That'll be another thing, but, um, see the ways i'll see we'll teach Um, but yeah, so we,
00:05:12
Speaker
We went to the coffee shop that we had our first day at. So we went back there um just to have a nice little full circle moment there. And then we went to a pottery class which is awesome. I really had fun.
00:05:24
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I've never, well, okay. last time I did anything with pottery was when I was in kindergarten. So going to this class and, and you know, we had the whole wheel, um, spinning the clay, but luckily it's electronic. So you could just tap it and set it, which makes it way easier than trying to navigate the speed the entire time.
00:05:43
Speaker
um, So we'll see if we made some text. Was it like you were like starting with a ball of clay and it's like getting your hands wet and then like doing the thing where it goes around? Yes. Did you guys have like a ghost moment?
00:05:55
Speaker
No, because we were sitting next to each other. if I think if we had tried to like stand behind each other, that would have... um Well, there were kids, so we can't they' be doing that around around the kids. so So no, there was no ghost moment. No, no, no. The kids would say, Mommy, Daddy, look, they're doing ghost.
00:06:11
Speaker
The Patrick Swayze classic. The kids love ghost. The kids love some Whoopi Goldberg and Demi Moore. They love it. That's one thing the kids love. That's what they're watching these days.
00:06:25
Speaker
ah but But to cut that off, so I posted a um the exchange that Paul and I had a year ago when I asked him out on on our date. And I was, listen, I am not famous on Instagram by anyone's imagination. I have a nice, healthy following of people and I'm very grateful for those people.
00:06:44
Speaker
So when I posted this, I did not expect to get a modicum more of attention than an a post of mine normally gets. As it stands today when we're recording this, that post of me, of the two slides of Paul and I setting up our first date, has now had over 1.4 million views on Instagram. That's crazy.
00:07:08
Speaker
which Which is, i I've never reached that level of attention. Has it has it like crossed over into, have you got any like, Sometimes like when things breach containment, you know, all a sudden you're like exposed to like people who don't actually know you. And all of a sudden you're like,
00:07:27
Speaker
Oh, no, no, no, no. I don't know who these people are. Sorry. Yeah. Has that happened? That happened. That happened. um A tweet came my way. I'm not on Twitter, but someone sent it ah that basically someone who knows who both Paul and I are from Starkid and Dropout, you know, they they're like, oh, my God, they're so cute. We all got to die. I think that was their that was their caption for this.
00:07:46
Speaker
And someone replied with a very nasty remark that we don't need to get into. But then a lot of the replies were like, that's so great. Who are these guys?
00:07:58
Speaker
and Oh, I love it. Who am I looking at? You're like, who? Why should I care? Why do I care about these men? um So, you know, we're we're internet famous in our in our very niche corners of the internet. um But I will say, so in terms of the response, though, So many people have reached out about how um similar situations they have with their significant other or just how much they enjoyed seeing, you know, love in its ins early stages. um So I'm I'm actually just glad that that connected with as many people as it has because I've been getting messages from complete strangers that are just so supportive of people that they don't know. So that is really nice. its So nice.
00:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, I had it. I had a tweet breach containment, ah not for not for positive reasons at all. I don't
AI Art vs Human Creativity
00:08:45
Speaker
think I posted it. This was a few weeks ago.
00:08:48
Speaker
Looking at it here now. I basically I basically was I I I have a streak of i can't contain i can't control myself when I see like an AI film bro.
00:09:00
Speaker
I just am like, I gotta stop. Maybe it's a little catty of me, but somebody was posting about how somebody stole their prompt or something or whatever, and I think I said something like,
00:09:12
Speaker
Or they were like, I'm just so tired. And I said, i think I said, like ah are your little fingies tired from all that typing of prompts or something? i think I said something like that. and And then I said, what did i say? said something else about like, it and it like, I like came back later and I looked at it and I was like, why are there like 7,000 retweets? I don't know how it, I don't know where it started,
00:09:38
Speaker
And then my my mentions were just flooded with people just being like, you don't fucking understand, dude. Like, you know another another like artist who doesn't get it and doesn't understand the future or whatever. And I listened to my gut and I said, I'm i'm walking away.
00:09:57
Speaker
I'm walking away from this. And I did. so I did not engage any further, but it it's a scary feeling when ah when it breaks containment. listen so Oh, what I said.
00:10:08
Speaker
Most of the celebs pushing AI as inevitable are invested in it. Do not listen to the BS. They stand to profit. So they need you to believe it to be true. Keep making real art, keep being human. That was the thing that I said that like bunch of people- thing to say. And um because, you know, i genuinely, this happened where with there have been several artists and filmmakers and actors that I genuinely have admired my entire life who have recently come out to be like, hey man, like it's the future.
00:10:39
Speaker
And you're like, okay, why are you saying that? And then like on the heels of that, a few weeks later, it's like, oh, they started a company or they're are they're a new investor or whatever. And so I go, I'm just like, hey, you that's what you believe, cool, whatever.
00:10:54
Speaker
But just to everybody out there, when somebody starts telling you something is inevitable, Check and see if they have a ah financial interest in that becoming true. Because if they do, maybe they're telling you what they need you to believe so that they don't lose their money. So that's kind of what the point that I was trying to make was. Anyway, would have pissed off a lot of people. so
Art Critique and Representation in Film
00:11:14
Speaker
But I don't feel bad about it.
00:11:15
Speaker
No, you shouldn't. ah ah First of all, just, you know, don't feed the trolls because that's why the dogs are trolls. um But yeah, you what you said is is could not be less harmful. like Like you, it is, it is a very easy thing to just say like, hey, make your own art.
00:11:32
Speaker
Be a little skeptical of what, how they're framing these things. Yeah. um Oh, this is this is the turn change. So we said, oh, by real art, do you mean pushing a button on a camera?
00:11:44
Speaker
And I said, yes, because that's all that goes into filmmaking. Everyone who's ever made a film knows you just push a button. Good observation. And then I was like, OK, all right. All right. going to stop. I'm going to stop. I'm going to I'm going to back off. kurt your your Your brand of snarkiness is rooted in such genuine hate.
00:12:04
Speaker
but delivered in such a calm and even manner. And I aspire to be on your level of petty. There's one more, and then I'll... This person said, a lot of AI artists are burning out lately.
00:12:17
Speaker
The tools became too easy, and competition exploded. Being early means nothing. Without vision or story to tell, not novelty fades, to which I quote tweeted it, and said, are their little fingies tired from all that prompt typing?
00:12:30
Speaker
but i okay Okay, now one thing I will not get the benefit doubt for is AI burnout. Listen, I don't care. i don't care. I've been up all night typing, make me a photorealistic anime that whatever. Oh, oh that's so dumb.
00:12:48
Speaker
um All right. Well, ah hey, this is a podcast called So What Are You Into? um So yeah we're going to start. ah Do you mind if I i go first on my- Please.
00:12:58
Speaker
Okay. so What are you into? Okay, so this is actually a part two of a conversation we had about the award shows. Oh, right. It comes full circle.
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah, the Oscars just happened. um And I am not going to argue about winners. I'm not going to argue about who is best.
00:13:24
Speaker
That is not my intention of what I'm bringing up today. Also... you know, I think it bears saying it's like even the nature of how votes are cast and projects and films and actors are like that whole system is really one that should be questioned too. So just the term best is so arbitrary and not, I wish they would just drop that from the language of it of Because it's, you know, you go back and look at the history of Oscar winners over the decades and you'll be like, so many films and actors stand out that didn't win. And so I i think just just the idea of best is just such a silly best thing. It's like, what? It's art. It's right. That aside.
00:14:09
Speaker
So, ah yeah, what I want to talk about is specifically the movie One Battle After Another. i want to talk about the content of that film and also how the media reacts to movies like that and movies like sinners. So first, uh, Curt and I not on the podcast, but we have talked about my feelings about one battle after another.
00:14:36
Speaker
Um, I want to say, first off, I don't have any personal gripe against Paul Thomas Anderson. I ah I think he's incredibly talented. His body of work ah supports that.
00:14:50
Speaker
um I have a problem with movies similar to one battle after another. And what do I consider that? I consider that crash. I consider ah something like Green Book.
00:15:04
Speaker
And that is movies that are rooted or centered in involve people of color. aspects of their lives in social situations that are you know most likely timely, but in certain cases like read book, you know, there are stories of our past.
00:15:21
Speaker
um But they use those stories as a backdrop to tell maybe a different story or it helps push another narrative forward without giving the full realization to the weight of the story of those people of color. So when it comes to one battle after another, your protagonist is Leonardo DiCaprio.
00:15:41
Speaker
A at you know, when we get to the meat of the story, he is a burnout. um He was an activist, but he's not. He's not on the field anymore. um He's rather ineffective throughout the movie. He's pretty inept. That's just the nature of the movie.
00:15:59
Speaker
ah But prior to that, you meet Tiana Taylor, who's you know, she won her ah her award for her performance and again deserved. um But her character, Perfidia Beverly Hills, is portrayed in a very stereotypical way when it comes to black women in film.
00:16:15
Speaker
especially when we're talking about black female activists, because if we were to model them after like a side of Shakur, um, and, uh, you know, but there were, there were much more, what I'll say is that there are much more prominent female, black female activists that we could have modeled after, but that's not what this movie was trying to do. That's that wasn't PTA's goal.
00:16:39
Speaker
Instead, what we received was a radical black woman who was going through probably postpartum depression and became an absent mother and then became a sexualized being um and a mythical legend legend for the rest of the movie.
00:16:58
Speaker
She's talked about or talked about how how she fell short as a mother, as a friend, all these things. We never really get any conclusion about her. Um, and then when it comes to the people of color in the movie, uh, there are other black women, there are Latino, uh, people, especially Benicio del Toro and, and that whole subplot of their organization of how to save their community.
00:17:22
Speaker
Um, you see that the communities of color seem to rally and, and, and come through and help out, uh, ah spoiler alert but they are the ones who get killed they're the ones who get arrested they're the ones who get caught their story finds an unfortunate end uh by the end of the movie uh and i'm also glossing over but you cannot ignore um the the racist very racist subplot of sean penn's character who is trying to curry favor with a group of ah Very powerful, wealthy racist. He wants to join their club and in doing so is also trying to erase any trace of him being linked to this biracial girl that he hasn't fathered.
00:18:03
Speaker
By the end of the movie, you get, ah I guess, your happy ending. Leo does get his daughter back, um not really by any of his own doing, though. it it comes at the expense of other people making a lot of sacrifices and losing their lives.
00:18:17
Speaker
um And then that's just how the movie ends. Paul Thomas Anderson, on Sunday, when he receivedd received his award um for Best Adapted Screenplay, he said that he did this because he wanted to basically emulate feelings he had as a father of biracial children and wanting to connect with them and wanting to, um,
00:18:42
Speaker
kind of talk about the mistakes and he's made or or ways that he could not connect with his kids. And so that's why he wrote this movie. Now, this movie is based off of a book called Vineland. However, when I say based on it, it took elements of the activism. Sure. But all of the race, the racial issues in this, that was not in the book. That was not present.
00:19:03
Speaker
He added that he chose to because, again, he wanted to make this personal to him.
00:19:08
Speaker
when he described his intentions for wanting to make this movie the way that he did versus what I saw in the movie theater, I felt that those were not congruent with each other. And I did not understand the love that this movie was getting because of the content with which it chose to tell that story.
00:19:27
Speaker
Hmm. If he wanted to make a movie about connecting with his daughter, I would, I would have liked to have seen that. That's, but that's not what I saw. What I saw is using again, race as a backdrop to tell a different story, but never actually addressing what all that was. Um,
00:19:47
Speaker
Now, as an actor, as a creative. This. it It this is what hurts for me is because I see how movies like this get championed.
00:19:58
Speaker
I see how um there are people that can because of just who they are and and, you know, we can say it's because they're white or because they're wealthy, because there are certain status. They can ignore the racial undertones of that because that doesn't really affect them. They don't see that. But to me,
00:20:13
Speaker
I always wonder because i've I've seen the things that come across my desk, the things I'm auditioning for and the roles that I'm ah you know available to audition for or even just how I'm perceived. And it feels limiting to once again see a movie like this, especially when it's compared in the same season to a movie like Sinners.
00:20:34
Speaker
Yeah, where I see not only people of color on screen, but behind the camera, the people that helped make this thing become a reality, real artistry. And um not to again, not to say that one battle wasn't artistry, but to say that watching a black story and it's inherently black because it's talking about the musical culture, um the the Jim Crow South, um those experiences. And then, yes, they're dealing with racism in that, too. And so there's there's layers to how they tell this story and it and that comes with perspective. You know, Paul Thomas Anderson is a white man. Yes, he's married to a black woman, has biracial kids. That does not mean he's going to give you the most authentic take when it comes to fully realized black characters. And and so when I'm seeing in the same season, those types of movies, it does not surprise me that a movie like One Battle wins Best Picture because that is a movie that your voting base is probably the most comfortable with stomaching.
00:21:31
Speaker
um There are other things involved. I could go. We could talk for hours about what goes into choosing what is the best picture because there's a lot of political things are behind that too. um A lot the entry just scratching its own back um so that studios can get ahead.
00:21:48
Speaker
So I like I said, I was not surprised that one battle won best picture. i I do want people to start being a little bit more kind of like you were saying about, hey, maybe just start questioning things a little bit.
00:22:01
Speaker
And I want people to start looking at what we choose to platform when it comes to movies like one battle after another and the stories that they're telling because on the flip. Oh, go ahead. Well, I had a thought and and also maybe in that too and so eloquently, beautifully said of like.
00:22:19
Speaker
not feeling like when... Like, being like, you can go, I love this movie, I think it's great, but not trying to make... Not trying to be like, and it speaks for everyone the best. And it's it's like, i go... Because I think that that's my to kind of really, if I'm hearing you, what you're saying, it's like...
00:22:36
Speaker
People were like, I love it, and then it became, and it is the movie of the moment. and it is has it has the most Versus like, it is a movie, it is a take, it is a very specific take. But to say it is not the take, it is not the only take, it is it is an interpretation, it is a it is a thought put out there. But to still approach it with critical thought and analysis and then balance that against, what are people from these communities saying? like To like let let you not just be carried away by well, it's the best of the year and so therefore it has to be everything to all people and going, that's that's not true. You can take a lot out of a piece of art and then still question where where where is it not saying enough or where is it where could I find more clarity on this? If if that if that feels like a ah good faith read of kind of what you're what you're saying. No, absolutely. It is because on on the flip side of that, let's talk about how these movies are talked about in the press.
00:23:30
Speaker
I think everyone remembers a year, ah about a year ago when that variety article came out opening weekend of sinners and the And this is something that happens not just with that movie. There's I could give you so many stories of growing up as a black man. um How many times my abilities were undercut, even if I was exceed excelling or exceeding in the same way that my white counterparts counterparts were. But Sinner specifically in this article um for Variety by Rebecca Rubin, ah it had this fantastic opening weekend ah and yet the the tone of the article was, well, but we don't know if it's going to be profitable.
00:24:11
Speaker
There was no reason to say that. you wouldn't say that about pretty much any other movie, but you did it about sinners. Also the, the weird, like backlash to Coogler being so fricking savvy in having his, I don't remember. I think it's 25 or 30 years. I think the rights revert back 25 and people being like, that's, but for forgot but but but la and it's like, people were like,
00:24:35
Speaker
up in arms and you're like bro that's baller like that's incredible what like we should champion that the the artist taking the rights back to their story like incredible precedent being set and people were to the coverage around that was baffling because people were like it's such a bad it's and it's a it's not a It's like, what are you, are you worried about the corporate? Oh, make sure the stew, like what are you, who are you championing in this bizarre, bizarre. I could not fathom that reaction. That was so weird to me. That and being like, Sinner, everyone loves and it's a smash hit, but it may not make its money. It's like,
00:25:17
Speaker
What? And if you pay attention to those kind of numbers, it did make its money and then some. And then some. Yeah. So that's not even a question. It's a hit.
00:25:28
Speaker
but but But I bring this up because, and to your point, Kurt, you got to also look at who owns some of these publications because some of them are, there are connections both politically and just in the business. And so ah some of the framing is ah is is intentional in that. um But yeah, so so there was that article about the box office. And then recently a Slate article came out and the title, you know, so sinners wins four out of its 16 nominations. It does have it makes history by getting 16 Oscar nominations, the most of any movie in one season like that.
00:26:02
Speaker
But then in winning their four Oscars, Slate comes out with an article by Sam Adams. The title is Sinners made Oscars history but not the kind anyone expected. The subtext here, it says, the hit film began the awards season as the most nominated movie ever. It ended it by setting a different sort of record. So immediately the tone is already about how, oh, but they didn't win. And, oh, look at the... a you you know it's it's' It's never...
00:26:29
Speaker
it's the, the, it, the ceiling will always get moved for, for people like for basically for people of color. And, um, I realized that people listening to this might have, uh, it's, it's hard to talk about racism. It's hard to talk about prejudice. um Because it's not a tangible thing.
00:26:47
Speaker
It's something that you see in real time, you feel over the course of days or decades. But when you're watching the way that these things are framed, as opposed to, let's say, Marty Supreme, ah it didn't win any of its awards at the Oscars. I I'm not going to say there aren't any, but there aren't the level of um negative attention, negative attention grabbing headlines about Marty Supreme not winning.
00:27:14
Speaker
ah So we just have to be careful about how we talk about these things and also just who you're getting that that information from, because. You and me, you know, Kurt, we're we're in the industry. We're going to pay attention. We're going to see we're goingnna see this stuff. There are just people in this world who only know anything about a movie because they went to the movie theater to see it. And then then maybe they'll hear about something at the Oscars and that's it. So if they do get some insight, if they get an opinion article or whatever, they might not be questioning the angle with which these people are speaking. But if the industry is shaping this thing that there's always this deficit
00:27:53
Speaker
when it comes to an authentic story from people of color versus, oh, well, here's this, you know, and I hate to say this, but like, here's this white guy and, you know, ah like he can tell whatever story he wants. But for a black director like Ryan Coogler to make a a choice like, hey, can I get my rights back after 25 years? That's something that every director now has an option to bargain with.
00:28:16
Speaker
That's something for everybody. But genuinely a win for any artist anywhere. Yeah. But the fact that it did, the fact that it was, yeah, no, yes. Sorry. just Yeah. No, just yeah. The same one backlash to that.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. And you go, i don't think, don't think those two things are not connected. Like the weird backlash to who who it was at the same time. Um, Yeah, you know, i it's so funny, I just recorded an Oscars podcast, a pre-Oscars podcast with Joey. We it every year. We're doing it for nine years. and um you know the This is what i this is kind of what I was saying in art when I was talking about award shows. is I love both of these movies. And I i genuinely, i have friends who really vibe with with like One Battle and friends who really did not.
00:29:05
Speaker
i i think they're super valid on but both sides. I love both of these movies and I hated the fact that people were like, which one is a better depiction it? And it's like, I was like, I hate that i hate that it's reduced to that.
00:29:19
Speaker
I mean, I guess that's the system that we have. But I was like, I love these movies. are I just, I loved I love, i this is going to sound like this is goingnna sound like the guy from Get Out saying I i would have voted for Obama on the third term or whatever. But it's like, you know, i I saw Sinners four times and I saw One Battle four times. Did not see any other movie more than once besides those two. I loved them so much. And I couldn't even imagine being like, well let's compare the two. Like, really? Why? one's like a...
00:29:51
Speaker
incredible like horror pulpy genre music like and one is one is this like father died and so the fact that the oscars and the the the system that we have pits that kind of thing against each other it just feels antithetical to the idea of like celebrating art and then being like which one is the best and then it becomes like you said which one is the which one are we going to say culturally is the best depiction and it's like oh i i just that's genuinely this year i was i was at a we went to a friend's house to watch the oscars and i ended up um i ended up playing pool
00:30:29
Speaker
with i so i Which is so weird for me. I just kind of, i mean, I came back for like best picture or whatever, but yeah, I just was like, no one can take away how special Sinners is.
00:30:42
Speaker
and And also I love One Battle and both of those things could be true. yeah But I think you make a great point of like, to not to to really be, put your critical thinking hat on when when a thing is sort of running away culturally with the like the the mantle of this is the thing of the moment and it's the most important piece of, ah to like question like well where does that come from and who's saying that? um Yeah, i it's I just think thinking critically about the media engage with is so important.
00:31:13
Speaker
And and i sometimes in my life I feel like People get annoyed with me of like, why can't you just enjoy things? But I don't know. i I do feel like it's it is a worthwhile endeavor to think about these things on on ah on a level that goes beyond just good, bad. Did I like it? Did I not? Yeah.
00:31:33
Speaker
What is it saying about the moment? Who who who is said who is speaking who is shouting above everyone else to declare a thing to be true? But what you say is is so well-spoken and and and yeah it gives me a lot of perspective on just like thinking about this in a more complex way than just than just pitting two things against each other.
00:31:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So um like i said, I'm not going to tell anyone to not like a movie. That's movies are subjective. Your your enjoyment is your view and your viewpoint and how you feel that day when you saw that movie is a big indicator of how you'll you know how that will stay with you. So um I just I what i here's what I want. Here's the positive out of all of this.
00:32:14
Speaker
I think for. for everything that happened, I'm so proud of a movie like Sinners. It makes me want to be a better artist. I, you know, watching watching Autumn Durald, Akapal win.
00:32:25
Speaker
ah She's the first woman to win best cinematography. Yeah, that's huge. And and to know that that happened. And if you think about it, Ryan Coogler has opened up a lot of doors for people just by the movies that he's chosen to put out into the world. And so it's so inspiring to watch that.
00:32:43
Speaker
I'm blown away, like coming off of the success of Black Panther and what did with Creed, the fact that he chose to make this movie in this way, to me, it just speaks volumes about the kind of artist he is and the and the way he brings people around. there's I saw this clip going around today.
00:33:07
Speaker
It's a behind the scenes clip and it's some moment from Sinners where I don't remember the exact sequence, but they're like playing music in the juke joint, and you just see him sitting on the floor as like the jib swings over.
00:33:19
Speaker
He's just like... He's having the best time, and I was like, I just want to be on a set with that guy. yeah You just feel... yeah know And hearing him speak about films and hearing him talk about the craft and the process, every time I hear him talk, I like get emotional and I'm like, this is why I want to do this with my life. I just, I, you know, i what's you know and i think too, it's this is, in its I don't want to I don't want to say, well, he has a long career, so he didn't. it's like that that's
00:33:53
Speaker
I hate when people are like, well, so-and-so so deserved an Oscar because of their past work. And I'm like, that's a weird way to think about it. like you know And so people are like, well, PTA deserved this because of the last movies he did. And I'm like, I don't know. That's ah' a strange way to frame it.
00:34:06
Speaker
Yeah. but i But I mean, i and I have been a big fan of PTA for many, many years. But I will say, I think we are in great hands with the future of cinema, knowing that people like Ryan Coogler are like at the forefront.
00:34:21
Speaker
Not that they don't deserve an Oscar for it, but I'm also like, this man is going to keep on changing the game and I I'm like it like you said it makes me like want to make a movie I got it like it's just it's just it's magic and yeah and even just just like that the live performance of light uh light of you know uh I lied to you I lied to you I lied to you oh I was like I'm back I'm back in that moment when I saw it for the first time know And just to cap this moment off about that performance, I love that Misty Copeland was on point dancing in front of Timothee Chalamet.
00:34:59
Speaker
ah That was awesome. That was awesome. that's i do i do think i think I do think the Timothee Chalamet thing has gotten so blown out of proportion. I'm like, y'all, come on. Not you, not you. Some takes that are like, this man besmirched. I was like,
00:35:16
Speaker
he so No. but Here's the thing. he just It's a misguided take. It's just a misguided take. I don't know why he has it. And I honestly, at this point, don't care. But he just has to be a little more. He's just too reckless, you know, and his whole ethos during this campaign was that he's trying to put himself on this pedestal. And so if you think everything about you is infallible, you're going to say some something stupid like that. And he did. It had no bearing, though. I will say this because people were saying that Michael B. Jordan.
00:35:43
Speaker
only won because everyone was mad at Timothee Chalamet for talking about opera and ballet. was like, that is not- Oscar voting was already closed. was already closed, so please get that out heads. Yeah, I hate that. That's also disservice to Michael B. Jordan to be like, well, he won because Timothee lost it for himself. I'm like, no no. No. the Oscar voting was already closed when that clip resurfaced.
00:36:03
Speaker
I just, it's like, that that to me is like, I feel like people were like 3D chessing it. And I was like, okay, this is, this is silly. The Oscars, how they get, how things get nominated and how these, it's so inside baseball. And so like trying to like overly think through these things, like, it's, it's way dumber than you think it is. yeah And, and, and, you know, i think like,
00:36:28
Speaker
There was a real so surge is weird because it's not like, it's just so weird. People talk about awards like they're sports. Like they talk about awards like they're like a team in the playoffs. They're like, B. Jordan's really surging in the final days. You go, Michael B. Jordan did the work a year and a half ago. He crushed it in centers.
00:36:46
Speaker
Like that was done. And then how people find the work or not, people were really responding. And and so, I don't know. It's like, yeah. That's why it's why awards are so strange. They're such a strange... Because when I was young, I really was like, that's the best movie of the year.
00:37:02
Speaker
They said it. And now I'm like, that that that has absolutely... Go look at the bit list of best picture winners, and you'll be shocked. You'll get to years, you'll go...
00:37:13
Speaker
Really? And then look at the other films that came out in that year and you'll be like, what? yeah So it just, it has, it has, it has almost no bearing on cultural impact, but that doesn't mean, that doesn't mean it can't be significant. It's not important.
Into the Manosphere: Documentary Discussion
00:37:28
Speaker
And that we shouldn't like two things can be true.
00:37:30
Speaker
Absolutely. um All right. So that was my, ah that was my Ted talk. Thank you all for listening. I appreciate you sharing. All right. So ah Kurt, what are you into this week?
00:37:42
Speaker
What am I into? I'm into the manosphere. I'm a big manosphere guy. I've really been. I, uh, no i i ah I'm not into the Manosphere, but I have been watching a documentary on Netflix by Louis Thoreau, who is a documentarian, kind of a comedian.
00:38:02
Speaker
It's called Into the Manosphere. And... um You know, this is a subject that has long fascinated me. I don't think it's a um especially profound. You're not gonna find out things about about this, the inner workings that you don't know if you haven't kind of already been around it. But I will say what this particular documentary is, about an hour and a half,
00:38:23
Speaker
It does a really great job, in my opinion, of showing you, A, the genuine sort of horrific toxicity of the world, but also connecting it to why is it resonating and how vulnerable people are being sucked into this this pipeline. um the guys The guys they interview in it suck. They're the worst. like They're awful. But what I found especially moving, there's there's one one particular set of of two people that Louis Thoreau is interviewing where where a lot of times he's going out with these influencer guys who you know all of them are...
00:38:58
Speaker
just far right extremist, you know, women belong in the kitchen and men should be the head of everything. And I mean, there's there's there's a spectrum, I guess, to kind of some of them, but it's all pretty rotten.
00:39:11
Speaker
But every time they go out, these young men are coming up to them being like, oh my God, oh I'm such a big fan. And he'll be like, hey, why are you a fan? what What are you drawn to?
00:39:22
Speaker
And I found that, that aspect of the documentary to be heartbreaking, And really illuminating because the answer is frequently very isolated and lonely young men who don't feel like they have a shot at anything, who are hearing this information and and and it's it's resonating with them on a deep emotional level and then they're sucked in.
00:39:47
Speaker
And that is the, what makes it especially horrific to me is that's the grift. It's not just a, hey, get rich fast or like be ah be a be a badass dude. It's like, It's preying on a vulnerability. And I guess in a weird way, i don't want to say it gives me empathy for for for the the guys that are doing it. Like, screw the like the worst.
00:40:07
Speaker
just Just like, it's awful. But it gives me empathy to go, how to how do you how do you reach people? How do you reach young men who feel so isolated and trapped that this thing seems like the only way out? That's that's kind of the biggest takeaway that I had from it. um And it really it really hit me watching it this week. I know you watched it as well. do what did What did you think?
00:40:26
Speaker
Yeah, ah when it comes to that fear, I realized, and this is even bigger than the manosphere because it it kind of speaks to society at large. ah Certain ideologies thrive on a spirit of scarcity.
00:40:39
Speaker
yeah You have to feel like you are losing, like you are at the risk of losing something or that you just don't have enough because they can't sell a product to a happy person. If you feel content and you feel good about your life, chances are you're not going to need more. You're not going to want for anything more than what you've got around you. So if you're being constantly told you're operating at a deficit that this person is going to take your job, you are not enough as a man unless you were doing X, Y and Z. um then that's why they're going into these grips. They talk a lot about these telegrams that a lot of these influencers, these Manosphere influencers are running and they're selling programs and classes and you know it's like $50, but then you're also throwing in more money to go to what is essentially a crypto scam.
00:41:24
Speaker
But you're doing it because you're being told and sold this is community. You're going to get the the the foundation that you need. And it's in these people. It's in this lifestyle. And it's it's so hard because i i think a lot of that comes from the fact that our just our society, our government, i' so I'm talking specifically in America. We've set this current generation up to fail with everything being so expensive so inaccessible That it's it's I I'm not surprised these people feel like they're lost and empty and and and aren't achieving what they need to be achieving I Love what you say it's a grift.
00:42:03
Speaker
It's a grift Dressed up as community hey and offering community and offer and it's like and that's what's so tragic about it is it's really, don't want say smart, because want give these guys more credit than they do, but like, it's insidious because it is tapping into this deep, real emotional core need of belonging.
00:42:28
Speaker
You know, there's a few few of the moments when he's interviewing some of the guys who are not these not the grifters, but the just the sort of fans. And they're like, you know, we have no value. We have no value. So we have to make our value. We we you know we we have nothing to offer. And I was just like, that out what a horrible thing to like look at yourself and be like, you have no value. You because of because Because you exist, you have no value, so you gotta go out there and make you know make it in the world. And then of course they they pin it,
00:43:01
Speaker
And you know I know the term toxic masculinity gets thrown around a lot, but but it it is so apt because they pin they pin like, well, women have their beauty and so they don't have anything. And and and these minorities, they have the advantage of people taking pity on them for that. But as a as a straight white guy, like nobody nobody's looking out for me.
00:43:25
Speaker
And instead of... looking instead of empowering people to say you have you are you are alive you exist you have value and you can go put good into the world they re-emphasize like no you're alone you're isolated everyone hates you you suck you have no value and if you pay me a bunch of money i'll speak value into you oh it just it just man it just like broke my heart because i go it It speaks to so a very real, it it it it's a scapegoat thing, right? Somebody's like, I'm afraid, I'm scared, I'm alone. You go, yeah, let me give you these people as fodder for your fear, and then I'm just going to take and absorb all of that, and then um and then take your money, take your resources, take...
00:44:11
Speaker
ah you just oh It's just... and it's right it's And it's like, why we're, it just, it to me, it's so, why, how we find ourself in the state we find ourself in this country, it's like, wow, this it's a deep, deep emotional core thing. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, I was just gonna say, I see a lot of parallels between something like the manosphere, trademark, and religion.
00:44:35
Speaker
ah So I was raised Catholic. ah I would say ah once I was probably around eight or nine years old, i i very quickly realized I didn't believe what I was doing.
00:44:49
Speaker
Right. I knew all the rituals. I knew all the hymns we could we could do. You know Catholicism is very by the book. You know what you know what you're supposed to be doing. um But I could feel in my in my gut that I did not believe what I was saying, what I was reciting.
00:45:04
Speaker
And so I started asking more questions and then just asking more questions. I realized that I just wasn't aligned with it. Now, it took me another 10 years before I fully separated from the church. um i I don't have any harrowing stories. I don't have anything like that. My it was just I I recognize religion and faith rather as as as that it's personal and it's your relation to it your spirituality is your own um but if i've seen anything about devoutly religious people it's that they submit this themselves to this entity to this ideology that is higher than them that they can't control they must submit to this
00:45:44
Speaker
and i see the same thing with with these manosphere guys is that in order to fall in line with their thinking you have to just completely relinquish yourself to them which is why you were saying those guys earlier said oh well we're born into this world with no value there is no way you are walking around this earth thinking that unless someone told you that someone had to teach you that you have no value Whereas perhaps ah I don't want to you know belittle anyone that is religious, but perhaps a more atheistic ah agnostic person say, no, well, you know you work hard, you might fail, but you try again, you go through this. um Because as soon as it becomes like, oh well, God has me, God has me covered. i will be fine as long as I trust in him.
00:46:33
Speaker
we tend to absolve ourselves from accountability. And we've seen that play out in other forms, ah hashtag Epstein files. So we have to, I think, also look at this Manosphere thing as a symptom of a larger issue of people not a not having the accessibility to to to persevere more in life because of just how we've unfortunately saddled our society and economy. But also ah they just don't they are being told and fully believe that they don't have the power to do anything unless they give it to somebody else. And that is how the grift will continue as long as they are in that mindset.
00:47:18
Speaker
ah Yeah. And, and the thing that then I, I come to immediately, it's so everything you said, I think is so true. And there's so many parallels between, I think fundamentalists sort of ID ideology that, that, that,
00:47:35
Speaker
says says you know it's i think it's one thing to be humble and and and have humility in in how you go about life and not going i'm the best i'm awesome i'm great but there's a difference between that in the like i suck i am a piece of garbage i am scum And when you when you when you have that repeated over you or you say that to about yourself, I think it makes you really vulnerable to then somebody coming in and being able to be like, but I can give you value.
00:48:04
Speaker
i I in a position of religious leadership or I in a position of, in this case, influencer kind of culture, whatever, the Andrew Tates, the, you know, the ah whatever that fresh and fit podcast thing. It's like, yeah.
00:48:17
Speaker
It's like, it's identifying a real hurt, a deep wound of like, nobody cares about me. And instead of being the antidote to that, it's like, yeah, you're right.
00:48:27
Speaker
Nobody does. But me, I care about you. If you pay me, if you give me your money, I care about you a lot. And I'll help you be powerful and rich. And then you can acquire all the resources and then keep them from everybody else. Because like you said, the scarcity mindset is so pervasive of like there's not enough there's not enough opportunities, there's not enough resources.
00:48:47
Speaker
So you've got to... It just, it just, oh, it just, it's so infuriating. And I, and I think the thing that I go is like, what do we do? How do, ah, like how do, what is, i don't, I don't know. I don't have a clear, here's the, here's how we fix it. No, I'm, no, I'm, I'm stumped too about that. I wonder about this all the time because that's a, that's a wall that I'm not sure how to break down.
00:49:09
Speaker
You know, how, how do we, how do we tell someone like, okay, you can make it in life without devaluing women. OK, you can make it in life without having a lot of money.
00:49:22
Speaker
But, you know, we just have to figure out the ways to to do that. But everything is about appearance and status. And and it's I don't know how we rewire their brains. um I actually have a question for you, yeah because I was thinking as I was watching this, I personally felt like the Manosphere thing kind of happened and I'm not entrenched in it I don't follow these people.
00:49:42
Speaker
So there's just no real way of me knowing. The closest I could say is, you know, I might know some athletes, some gym people, you know, that could you could describe them as the Joe Rogan types or whatever.
00:49:56
Speaker
Right. So that that's one thing. But I feel like with influencer culture, this this sect of it kind of just skyrocketed. And ah but also, I think I felt removed because as a gay man, that was just never for me, that they're not ah they're not talking at me. In fact, they're quite opposite.
00:50:13
Speaker
So as a straight man, do is this something that you saw? Did you see it grow? Is that, you know, you're not a part of it, but is it something that you even was on your radar? i think there's breadcrumbs.
00:50:25
Speaker
Because as somebody who loves, I'm, you know, one of my One of my sort of mantras in life, i I believe in hard work. I believe in a strong work ethic. I believe in like going after your dreams, like all that stuff I believe in. So they there's been times in my life where I felt like that. I have a feeling like, oh man, i'm I'm failing myself or whatever. And then you start to kind of try to amp yourself up and like you start to watch videos or try to like, I wanna like get into a better head space.
00:50:52
Speaker
And that could be a really beautiful thing to like have a gut check with yourself and be like, hey, you can work harder or like, hey, you should start to show up for yourself. And that's a beautiful, like that's genuinely a beautiful thing.
Promoting Empathy and Community
00:51:02
Speaker
But I will say, you will notice as you begin to do that and as you begin to sort of seek it out, especially on the internet,
00:51:11
Speaker
the I think these the the way that these I don't know if it's the algorithm. I don't know if it's the tech companies at all, but they are really quick to start to steer you in that direction.
00:51:22
Speaker
And I have definitely been like on like, you know, YouTube, being oh this video about how to like, how to get motivated to like exercise every day. And all of a sudden you'll hear a little nugget. You'll hear a little like, man, no one's coming to save you. And you're like, yeah, you're right.
00:51:37
Speaker
No one is. yeah Wait a second. And then it's, it's so with it starts, I think it starts in a very small way where then you start to go, it's like the threshold between working hard and starting to believe that everything is against you and everyone is against you is a delicate one.
00:51:55
Speaker
And I, to me, i think for me, what I'm so grateful for is I'm so grateful to have my wife is like awesome and reminds me that I'm not alone. My friends, community. That's why I think theater for me is such a lifeline because it's constantly your' your reminder of like, I'm in community with people and like, yes, I want to work hard, but also I can i can ask for help and I can lean on people and I can admit like that, that like ability to remember that you can ask people for help and you don't have to have all the answers, that to me feels like maybe where the paths begin to diverge. But but yes, like I will say I have seen it. I'll be listening to like a a podcast where I'm like, wow, this is really helpful. And then you'll hear something and you'll go, wait a minute.
00:52:37
Speaker
Why do they just but did they just say that thing? And then it's i can just i can see the breadcrumbs and I can see how if you went, well yeah, I kind of, I do feel like my ex-girlfriend when I was young, kind of, nah, it sucks, she sucked. tonight Yeah, you know, like i could i could see i could see that very quickly becoming a web that you start to find yourself drawn into and entangled in. But for the grace of like genuinely having like wonderful people around me, I feel like really blessed. And my mom always being like, you better not. like Shout out to my mom for always being like, you are going to respect
00:53:15
Speaker
Wait minute, you're gonna respect me? And I was like, yes, ma'am. genuinely, I cannot thank my mom enough for like putting the fear of God in me about like, if I ever hear the, and so.
00:53:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, but i but I could see if I didn't have that in my life. it's like I guess I can, I want to leave room for empathy of understanding how somebody could fall for that.
00:53:38
Speaker
Not to say that it's okay and to normalize it and to be like, but but to But to leave space for like, well then, okay, if I can see that vulnerability, how how could maybe I as an artist try to make work that can reach people to show them in all another path? I don't know. That's kind of like where my my head goes. But it's not it's not a very good solution by any means. But... um I think that's a really great question. I think i think what you what you ask is so true. It's like, yes. I think and that's why I'm fascinated by it is that I i i i recognize it and I see it.
00:54:12
Speaker
I see it creep into very normal situations on the internet that there's a little hint of it, a little suggestion of it, and it's enticing and it feels good to be like, yeah, yeah, this is the this is why this is why my this thing isn't working.
00:54:30
Speaker
And once somebody can get you there, i think it becomes really easy to to just to just get pushed all the way over. you know Right. Yeah. Yeah. it's you know The Internet is such a huge place, so it's it's not uncommon for you to come across even just a random page and this person has a million followers and you've never even heard of them.
00:54:53
Speaker
So if that's just one person, imagine an entire movement that is in, again, the underbelly of this side of the internet. And you just, because you weren't there, you don't know, but now it exists and there's a whole ecosystem of it.
00:55:06
Speaker
This is, this might sound silly too, but I, not that I think theater is the answer. These guys just need to do theater. Yeah. Or therapy. But I do think for me, theater was such a gift because,
00:55:21
Speaker
it not only, it's like when I found theater and performing, it wasn't just like emotions are something you you can be okay It literally was like, no, but being vulnerable, allowing yourself to think, like that is essential to, it it really, like right at that really pretty susceptible age, I was 12, 13, 14, you know?
00:55:44
Speaker
It's like I found this thing that said being sensitive and allowing yourself to feel things and allowing yourself to, put yourself into someone else's experience that's outside of your own. These are the core essential things to being an artist. And so it's like, I'm so i'm so lucky that that i I encountered that when I did.
00:56:04
Speaker
and i it's you know kind of set me off on the the path that I've been on for genuinely like since I was 12. If I didn't encounter that, I i don't know. i didnt I could see like, I don't know, I could see would It would be a heartbreaking to me because I could go, oh my gosh, maybe I wouldn't have had access to knowing that.
00:56:26
Speaker
Again, that's performative, and so it's not an excuse for like actually dealing with your real real issues. But the practice as an artist of like, no, emotions are good.
00:56:37
Speaker
Vulnerability is good. Sensitivity is good. You hear them and in this in this documentary being like, men can't be weak. We can't show weakness. you know we just We just accept the pain and we keep going. No, no, no.
00:56:51
Speaker
no You know, as as you were talking, it made me think of an answer. I don't think it's the answer because I don't know if there is one on how to combat this. But I do think if you can't change their mind, the only thing you can do is continue to live yours. And, you know, our generation might not be having as many kids for many very good reasons.
00:57:13
Speaker
But I do think... that there are enough of us that are seeing this and when and if we have kids, we're going to teach them just a little bit differently and say, like, hey, you don't have listen, you don't have to go into the arts if you have if your passion is construction, you do that, but do something you care about. Absolutely. But but the biggest lesson is that we do not need to put others down in order to succeed.
00:57:37
Speaker
um I think and you learn that because of community to you learn to care about your neighbor and you learn to care about those around you. ah And that's harder I get in the digital age. Some people just do not know how to interact with the person that's right next to them.
00:57:53
Speaker
But maybe if we're a little bit more cognizant of of witnessing the humanity and the person next to us, that is at least an antidote to this masculinity problem, this isolationist problem. Because, yeah, we're just ah we're just a society that's very fragmented, even though we've never been more connected by the phones that we use every day. Mm hmm.
00:58:15
Speaker
Yeah. This is a bizarre thought and it's quick and I'll wrap it up, but I've been watching the Netflix documentary about dinosaurs. Ooh. Have you seen this? it's like It's like Morgan Freeman narrates and it's beautifully CG rendered dinosaurs that look photo real and it's kind of a history whatever.
00:58:35
Speaker
What does this have to do with the manosphere? I'll tell you. ah hum It's interesting, you know ah in you know, a lot of it is them sort of rendering like what these scenarios would look like in this particular species and whatever.
00:58:50
Speaker
And when you when you just sort of think about the history of of life on earth and vying for resources. And it's so funny how we, we as humans have sort of, we think that we've surpassed that. I was thinking about this, talking about this with Kim yesterday at the airport while we were stuck on a layover of like, you watch all the episodes in the plane and we were talking about it in the airport restaurant. We're like, we think we've surpassed that. We think we're like, we're so connected. We're so we've evolved, but like we've just extrapolated the same, the same, um,
00:59:24
Speaker
desperation for resources. But it's like now instead of it like I have more meat or I have more leaves to eat, it's like I have a million dollars and that represents protection and armor and weaponry. it's like And i think I think that to me, a possible antidote to the cynicism of it all is to be like, and I'm not saying we're beyond our our biological instincts, but that we have the ability to to be aware of it and to go, wait a minute, I have enough. I genuinely, like if I have enough in this moment,
01:00:01
Speaker
And a lot of people, you know, sometimes it's dicey, sometimes when moments in our life that we didn't have enough, but we but we're still here. It's like, we are the product of a billion different miracles happening.
01:00:15
Speaker
And we are here in this moment and and I have more than enough like things to, liquid to drink and things to eat in this moment. and ah And my, your success and your ability to have what you need does not take away from my, and if we and if we lean into that, we are like no better than like these like primal dinosaurs that are like fighting each other for like the, I just was like watching it being like, we do the same thing now. Shouldn't we transcend this moment? um weird Weird way to to tie that back to the manosphere. But I just was like, that's that's what i I hear these men saying like, I gotta get money, I gotta get followers or whatever.
01:00:56
Speaker
Those things don't, it just makes them feel like they have a thicker armor. It makes them feel like they have more leaves to eat. Yeah. it It just, it's just, it's out of fear. And I think if we can transcend that in any case, uh, uh,
01:01:11
Speaker
as humans, it's to be like, wait a second, we genuinely, our gift as humans, our our superpower is the ability to work together and to like have community. Like that is why we've made it this far in the millions of years of existence. yeah And we need, that is the only thing that we'll let, it like we will survive. If we are trying to out, out resource everybody else, then We genuinely are like leading to our own extinction. Yeah.
01:01:38
Speaker
You know, I will. ah One last point, because I just remembered this. um I will point out, though, did you notice how nervous these guys got around him? Yes. Because he doesn't, he lets them walk into a lake.
01:01:52
Speaker
Yes. And you'll see them start to talk and then like get really upset as he doesn't respond. He'll just go, huh, interesting. And it realize I realize this. So as long as they are in their fortress of their own thought, their their safe space, so to speak. They're perfectly fine. They can demean whoever they want. They can hype themselves up, all that stuff. But as soon as someone from the outside comes in, look at this, like especially that dude, bro, the one that was like overly muscled and you know huge. He was so threatened. Marbella. Yeah. Yeah, that guy was so threatened by Lewis, who is just like, what, 50 something brit old British dude? Like he was not a physical threat to this guy, but intellectually, because I think deep down, even they know that they don't have a solid foundation of what they believe in. And it takes is one outsider to make it all crumble. So I do think, you know, it's not an impenetrable fortress, but right now it's just it's just a tall one to climb.
01:02:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a, I think it's a really fascinating, if if this is a world that feels like strange and unfamiliar, but, but you are curious about like, what is this world ah without getting too political,
01:03:02
Speaker
I also go, this is it a lot of what is happening in our world, i was going to say a country, but world, here because of our country, it's like so much of this ideology has affected, influenced, and permeated into the policies and the people that are implementing on a mass scale, cruelty, brutality, and violence.
01:03:28
Speaker
And and And it's like watching watching that documentary, doesn't it doesn't make me go, oh, that's what, but it is insightful to go, this is where it's this is the this is where it starts for a lot of young people.
01:03:41
Speaker
and And if we're sort of trying to grapple with how did we get here and what happened, I i think taking a hard look at that and like going, okay, this this is something that we need to think about and and just sort of glossing over it with like,
01:03:57
Speaker
Oh, you know, next election, let's just be nice to each other. And let's all like that is not going to to answer the problem, the dire problem that the indoctrination that's happening on a deep fundamental emotional level that is having a ripple effect that is affecting affecting us on such a vast and horrific scale um so yeah it's like the documentary doesn't try to kind of tie all that together but i couldn't help but watch it and go this is just this when you let this continue we get to these other things you know yeah
01:04:36
Speaker
Yeah.
Podcast Closing and Listener Engagement
01:04:37
Speaker
So anyway, this is, this is a very deep on this one. I love it. So as you can see, we have a, I love it too, but it's my favorite part of my week so far.
01:04:51
Speaker
um And you know, we're, we're onions here. We got lots of layers, lots of, lots of tip here. um ah So, yeah, so that's our episode. I don't really know how to wrap these things up. So what I will say is um if you want to reach out to us, you can always email us at yeah at so what are you into pod at gmail dot com.
01:05:11
Speaker
You can also follow us on the socials. So what are you into pod? i know we're on Instagram, TikTok. um ah that Is that it? Is that the other one? That's it. I think that's it. I think we had it. We had ah an email or two and a comment come in this week, but maybe we'll just get to those. now we'll ah we'll let them We'll let them stack up a little bit and we'll talk about them next. yeah but We love hearing from you. So like, we'd love to know your thoughts on, we talked a lot a lot today.
01:05:33
Speaker
Let us know your thoughts. Chime in. Yes, please. um it's the I think the idea of this is to is to start conversations. Absolutely. So ah yeah, so on behalf of Kurt, I'm James. And as always, stay curious.
01:05:46
Speaker
Wait, let me play the theme. Hold on. Oh, I got stall. OK, so I went to the store. and oh there it is. OK. That's right, everyone.
01:05:56
Speaker
Stay curious. See you later.
01:06:01
Speaker
Dan Vitra.