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Blue Prince, Inside, and the Joy of Not Knowing
1 Plays3 seconds ago
Talking out loud about the stuff that won’t leave us alone.
This week James brings Blue Prince and Curt brings Inside, two games that unexpectedly lead us into a conversation about curiosity, uncertainty, and the value of not always knowing where you’re headed.
Along the way, we discuss the Tony Awards, cruise ships, artistic validation, and the strange ways our tastes evolve over time. What begins as a conversation about games eventually becomes something larger: a discussion about discovery, failure, creativity, and why some of life’s most meaningful experiences refuse to give us easy answers.
Blue Prince challenges players to embrace uncertainty and experimentation, while Inside explores conformity, control, and navigating systems that feel bigger than ourselves. Together they spark a conversation about curiosity, exploration, and learning to trust the process even when the destination isn’t clear.
We also talk about:
• Blue Prince
• Inside
• The Tony Awards
• Cruise ships and travel culture
• Puzzle games and storytelling
• Curiosity vs mastery
• Failure and experimentation
• Creativity and artistic growth
• Discovery and exploration
• The joy of not knowing
So… what are you into right now?
Email us:
sowhatareyouintopod@gmail.com
Follow along:
Instagram + TikTok: @sowhatareyouintopod
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Transcript
Is it summer yet?
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Show What You
00:00:06
Speaker
It's episode 14. Episode 14. It's the summer, baby. the summer. Wait, is it summer? When does the solstice start? Great question. I thought it was like the 21st or something like that. star my set The 21st. So it's not the summer. Sorry.
00:00:23
Speaker
No, no, no. It's the summer. It's the weather. We're still in the spring. We're still in the spring. But here's the thing. Like in California, the seasons don't really like yeah change. the so the The seasons in California, you know, it's pretty much like just like a slightly cold winter and then spring, summer, fall.
Sunscreen nostalgia
00:00:42
Speaker
Yeah, I've I have had a in well, I think it's because I've been hiking a lot recently. And every time I hike, I try to think about skin care. So I put on sunscreen and the sense memory of sunscreen sends me back to being a child. And so every time, every day I'm putting on sunscreen and I'm filled with this insatiable desire to want to like be at a pool and be lounging. which I i honestly don't even swim really for fun anymore. i swam competitively as a teen so much that I almost like stopped enjoying swimming. But when I put sunscreen on I'm like, oh, I want to be at the pool. And so I keep having this sensation of it's like a Saturday and I'm off to go hang out with my friends at the pool, but it's a Tuesday and I've just got so much work to do, you know? Yeah. it's a's But it's just it's a sense memory.
00:01:34
Speaker
When's the last time you've been to the beach out here?
Beach trips and summer vibes
00:01:38
Speaker
Oh man, it's been a while. For somebody who lives relatively close to the beach, I go very rarely. We were we got we were in Hawaii a few years ago and on Kauai and we were like, wow, the beach is so beautiful. And then we were like,
00:01:54
Speaker
We do have one much closer than this. Right, right. Because I did my first beach trip in Memorial Day. We had a day off. so And there's a few of us. It was nice. But like, so to your point about is it summer yet?
00:02:09
Speaker
There's this brief period. And this is how you know it's summer California when the water isn't so cold that you have to wait until like 2 p.m. to actually get in and enjoy it. And Memorial Day was still in that earlier part where, you know, you might take a dip a toe in and then all every cell in your body rushes up and it's like, no, I can't do this. it's just a cold plunge at that point. Yeah. Yeah. um I love the beach though. And honestly, I, so I have some friends that live actually like within 10 minute distance of the beach. So whenever I go to visit them, it gives me a ah genuine excuse like, Hey, we should just go. And beach life in California is so different from like LA or, you know, very much because people, people kind of forget, like, yes, LA County is really large, but if you actually live on the beach, they just live at a way different pace and the culture is just a little bit different.
00:03:03
Speaker
And yeah, you definitely get your like surfer bros and all this stuff, but everything is just outside and there's live music and, and people are just like walking around. Like it's, it's, it is a different vibe than living in the heart of LA.
00:03:17
Speaker
i like I live i live the on the opposite side of the world where I live in the mountains and I love the mountains, but it is this is going to sound really spoiled because I live in LA and that's like a huge privilege already.
00:03:31
Speaker
But getting to the beach. I
Beach trip logistics
00:03:35
Speaker
find to be such a laborious task. If, if, if parking wasn't such a thing, I genuinely would go, Hey, you want to take that 45 minute drive to get to the beach? Absolutely. But it's the, I'm going to drive 45 minutes to an hour.
00:03:52
Speaker
Then I'm going to have to drive around for 20 or 30 minutes, maybe. And then I'm to have to walk with all my stuff. And like I find mentally the idea of doing it exhausting before I've even gone. And I need to get over that. I need to just let go. We're just going to go. Yes, it's going to be inconvenient, but we're going to have a great time.
00:04:10
Speaker
So the the hack is you find a neighborhood or an area, pay attention to the parking signs, but I have a spot. So now I know i always go there and I've never had an issue. um I'm not carrying too much stuff with me, but like I have a designated parking area that I know no matter what, I can park there and get to the beach within less than 10 minutes.
00:04:30
Speaker
We should do a beach episode. yeah And just record with our lawn chairs. Yeah. That would be perfect. i would love that. It was funny when we when we were in Kauai that we spent a little bit of time on the beaches there just and stunning and I was like, oh, I do love this. This is nice. um But it's just it's much more wild and rugged. And so you're not like fighting parking and it's not so touristy. You're just kind of taking in nature. But I should go. I should go more often. I hike a lot. I hike almost every single day. But sometimes you need to change a pace.
00:05:04
Speaker
I also just find the water so therapeutic. Like it just like, it's, I mean, I hate to sound so woo woo, but there's, there's something very cleansing about just like diving in the water for a little bit and like it, you
Cruise experiences
00:05:15
Speaker
know, just splashing around. And it also feels like, yeah like you talk about sense memory. I'm talking about feeling like a kid.
00:05:19
Speaker
I feel like a kid again, splashing water and land laughing. It's, it's a lot of fun being at the beach. Do you, um, have you ever been on a cruise? Oh, Kurt. Oh, Kurt, ah I've worked on a cruise. I've been on a cruise. I hate every version of it.
00:05:36
Speaker
It's so interesting. People, I think, are really really enjoy it or really don't. I don't find a lot of people are in the middle. you know It's too expensive to be in the middle. Yes. I had an extraordinary experience several years ago on a cruise where we went to the Mediterranean and we did this trip through Italy and into Spain.
00:05:58
Speaker
And it's not the, it's not maybe the most immersive way to experience culture, but, but, It is really nice to have a giant floating hotel that allows you to go, i'm going to wake up tomorrow in Barcelona and I'm going to have an adventure in Barcelona tomorrow. And then I'm going go, and then I know all my stuff is, and I can get back to it. And then the next day going to be in Madrid. And we got to experience that. My always, my recommendation is if you ever get a chance to do that, take time to spend time in a place for real before you get on a ship.
00:06:29
Speaker
So we did like, three days in Rome. Then we got on a ship, we did 10 days and then we got off and then we spent another two days or three days in Italy. It was like a perfect balance of really exhausted by the time we got to the boat and we were like, Oh, thank God.
00:06:44
Speaker
It was so lovely. It was also, it was a European cruise, which hits different in my opinion than like a carnival, no offense to carnival, but like it's a little bit different of a vibe. and europeans are just cooler they're just more chill and um but uh yeah but if you've ever worked on a cruise ship or you've done it i i could imagine you'd be like i'm good i'm good ah okay you know i'm gonna turn this into a very different podcast for a few minutes so here's my thing here's my thing okay as a guest as a guest on a cruise ship i've gone with friends in like college for spring break so i did that version i also did
00:07:22
Speaker
The family version. So I've had both experiences. um As a guest... It's cool. All right. Yes, there's pretty much everything is set up for you. There's buffets. There's fancier restaurants. There's some live entertainment.
00:07:35
Speaker
If you're younger, they tend to have some games and stuff. And depending on the ship you're on, they might have water slides. I'm not even going to get into it. They have stuff. And then, yes, I agree with you. Get off at the ports. Go enjoy the islands or wherever you're going.
00:07:50
Speaker
um I've been fortunate enough. I did a bunch of the Caribbean both as a guest and when I worked on it. And then um but also when I worked on my ship, ah we started in Europe. So I was in Germany for a bit. We went to Spain. We went to ah England. So i in terms of just seeing the world and being out, great way to do that.
00:08:08
Speaker
Fantastic. Okay, that's the end of my positive spin on cruise ships. i fucking hate ah cruise ships. I don't know why we'd use them as a method of vacationing. I think they're so fucking stupid. I hate that you're trapped on this thing with the worst, most entitled people you've ever met in your life. They're dirty, they're mean, they're stupid, and you have to deal with them with a smile on your face, even as a guest, because sometimes you're waiting in line with these god-awful people that you probably saw when you were getting on, and you're like, oh, been a long day, right? It's like, where is my refillable cup? I don't understand. I've been on 700 cruises and this is the worst thing I've ever seen. Meanwhile, literally we are rolling out red carpets for you, leaving little bottles and candies and people are doing, making those towels to put it on your bed. You don't understand how little your crew is being paid to make sure that when you wake up with your dirty ass clothes and you never wash your hands, they're trying to make sure this ship functions. I have everything about cruise ships and if I never have to go on another one again it'll be too
Working on cruise ships
00:09:12
Speaker
soon so and an incredible rant thank you so yeah yeah so I again not to knock anyone's if you love cruise ships great for you I don't ever want to be on one ever again
00:09:25
Speaker
I get that. Here's the, here's a weird, a weird thing that happened to me because we've done two both times. I am terrible, terrible at knowing how to be at rest.
00:09:38
Speaker
Like you give me a day off, I'm going to find something to do. And I did find that the days at sea there was, i have never read more or just been like,
00:09:49
Speaker
I'm going to sit in this chair and I'm going to literally lounge. And I found them to be extraordinarily restful in a way that I almost never feel. Cause if I'm on a trip, you will never catch me staying in that hotel past like 10 AM.
00:10:02
Speaker
Like if I'm on a trip and we're in a place I've never been, get me out there. I want to see it. yeah But there is something nice about being forced to be like, there's nothing to do today. You're just floating. So I'm just going to sit here. So maybe it's more, I need to cultivate a better practice of rest and not rely on a giant floating hotel with yeah a bunch of people who are being underpaid. Oh yeah. Oh, it's yeah. It's an, were you an act? Did you do like a show?
00:10:33
Speaker
I did. So I did, this is, there was like a season of me doing Mama Mia where I was doing it on land and then that production closed and the same team, which was, it was the Broadway team. They opened up the first version that was on the cruise ship. So I went with them to open that. But then I also had to do their in-house show.
00:10:50
Speaker
Nevermind. There's people that are probably going to watch and listen to this. So anyway, let's just say I had lot of fun doing Mama Mia and that's the only thing I'm going to say. Yeah.
00:11:02
Speaker
That's because you have to do a bunch of stuff, which is, it's like you're not just, you're performer, youre you are still doing a bunch of other tasks and a bunch of other work. Yeah, yeah. Probably in all the shows. and And they still believe in this weird cast system where the singers are contracted as a guest status and the dancers are below that. So the singers, even though you may all share parts in the same show, the singers can do whatever they want. They can wear whatever they want. They walk around the ship.
00:11:28
Speaker
Me, when I was contracted as a dancer, I had to do about 17 other different shows besides the two main ones that we were doing. We had to clean the the damn ship all the time. We had to wear uniforms and have name tags. Like, it's just, I don't understand why we treat people so differently when we're all doing the same job.
00:11:45
Speaker
The same job, yeah. Yeah, so, yeah whatever. That's why i never went back. Can you tell I'm still bitter? You can tell I'm still bitter, okay. No, not at all. I love was This was not planned, by the way, at all. We had no plans to talk about this. About cruise ships. Okay. um here's what I want to steer it, though. Although it's a little bit um on the same. Steer it?
00:12:08
Speaker
Let's
Tony Awards discussion
00:12:09
Speaker
steer it. Let's go to the Tony Awards real quick. Steer intended? Okay. Yes. Tony Awards. It just happened this Sunday. i did not... I watched last year because Darren, you know, and maybe happy ending one and we're, we're up for stuff.
00:12:23
Speaker
Um, I have no idea what happened. I don't even know. i actually don't even know what one. So I'm excited to hear your thoughts on the Tony's. And then I have a, I have a take that I want to share just about award stuff in general, but before, Funny enough, I also did not get to watch as the broadcast aired. um I was catching clips because I was working. um But something I just want to point out is um from everything that I saw, Pink was a fantastic host.
00:12:52
Speaker
um And I know a lot of people gave gave the um ah ah CBS and everybody flack for putting Pink as a host because she has not been in a Broadway show. um ah That being said, she is a fantastic live performer and as evident by what she did on the broadcast.
00:13:09
Speaker
fantastic singer. And she's always been that way. um And so to see her actually really enjoy herself as a quote unquote outsider, I think she did a fantastic job ah just on account of everything that I saw. um That opening number, which shout out to my friend Tim Murray, who was one of the consultants on the opening number. um Tim is actually, I have to point this out. So the last couple of years, Tim has made a really, he's like, this is the, like the epitome of you have to make your own work.
00:13:35
Speaker
What he's done is, is make these videos when, when they announced Cynthia hosting, and then also with pink, basically just like pitching himself about what he do with the opening number. And twice now it's, they've like taken him to New York to like help with the opening number. So it's, you got to make your own work out here.
00:13:52
Speaker
yeah, All that to say, ah that opening number was fantastic. I think it's one of the better ones they've done in the last few years. um And then in terms of the performances, because ultimately we watch these, yes, to watch the awards, but then you want to see a little glimpse into each show that's been nominated.
00:14:06
Speaker
um And they did, yeah they also did the... um a tribute to Chicago, a tribute to a chorus line, a slight tribute to Rent, if you will, during an in memoriam.
00:14:19
Speaker
They, yeah, but the performances are great. And it's really, i really enjoyed seeing the Cat's a Jelicle Ball performance. I know we've talked about podcast about how great I feel that show is for right now and also just for for theater in general. um ah We saw Ragtime, which is a great ah classic, and I'm glad that, you know, had its moment. um There's a little controversy there because that won Best Revival.
00:14:44
Speaker
And I know a lot of people were really hoping and pulling for Cats to win Best Revival. And I'm going to agree with those people. um This is not a knock about anyone's talent within Ragtime. um However, i don't see that they reinvented anything about this revival. And i've I've talked about before, if you're going to bring something back, at least give it a new spin or give it give us something to to ah sink our teeth into. And I feel like Cats did that.
00:15:10
Speaker
ah That being said, they did win Best Direction. um They but did win Best Choreography. um ah And so like ah so in in in in general, like I feel like they... they got some good do with, with their show, but I feel like we could have given them a little bit more in that regard. um Best musical action went to Schmigadoon. Did you watch the Apple TV series?
00:15:34
Speaker
I, I kind of saw a little bit and I, i was like, this is fun. i i understand the joke and the gag. i I never felt compelled to continue watching it. And that's not a diss on the show. It's just, I never, for whatever reason, I never went back and like kind of kept watching it.
00:15:51
Speaker
Um, but I think conceptually it's, it's, it's a fun idea. Yeah. And I, I would agree with you. Um, I, and I feel, I feel bad talking about these things because it feels a little personal because we all know the theater community and we're still technically in it.
00:16:06
Speaker
um I feel like it's the safe option, Shmigadoon winning best musical because it is, again, a property that people know. um I think it's musical theater for people that aren't necessarily interested in musical theater because of how meta it is. um So it's ah it it's an entry point. And maybe it's great to like, it makes fun of the classic movie musical theater tropes ah without being too into like, oh, we've made a new thing. So now you have to like this. It can poke fun at it for someone who's never watched it. So...
00:16:36
Speaker
I get, I get it. Um, like we've talked about with award shows, like the Oscars, you know, it's all political. It's all for the benefit of someone much higher up than us. Um, and, um, now do I, in terms of the, now it was only a four shows that were up. It was lost boy, Schmigadoon, Titanic and two strangers. So, um, do I feel like who deserved something more? I don't know. i don I don't necessarily feel like any one person deserved it more than the other, or I should say, I should say show deserved it more, but, um,
00:17:07
Speaker
You know, I do want theater to take a little more risks. So from a technical standpoint, I feel like Lost Boys is giving something cool to Broadway. um ah Maybe because I've also talked about Spectacle before on here.
00:17:20
Speaker
ah I do feel like they're doing something fun. If they're going to if you you're going to bring something, like i said, that we know exists, let's give it a fun spin. Let's give it some elements, something. I do feel like Lost Boys did that. So... um too On the flip side, and this is my last point, is that Two Strangers, which is a much more intimate show, I feel like that also speaks to me. So maybe i'm it's team Lost Boys, team Two Strangers ah somewhere in there.
00:17:48
Speaker
um But all in all, i think I think it's a decent season, and i I hope that there are newer things. I do know one show that's coming up pretty soon that I hope is going to get a lot of attention and hopefully some awards next year. So ah i don't know. it it was like It was a good time.
00:18:03
Speaker
Good time had by all. Do you think it, ah what's the what's the question I'm trying to ask here? Do you think it makes you hopeful about sort of the future of theater? I will say last year, um obviously we have a personal connection to to Darren, but...
00:18:22
Speaker
I actually thought it was genuinely really meaningful that a show like maybe happy ending one. Cause I saw several of the shows nominated and all, you know, incredible cast and talent, but there was, and again, I'm biased, but yeah,
00:18:37
Speaker
Maybe Happy Ending was so so unique and different and small and and personal in a way that I was like... i I liken it to what I love about early Pixar, where I was like, this is just this like little thing that I can't believe somebody made it and that...
00:18:56
Speaker
and that And that it got the budget to to to do this and that and that the audience is meeting them for it. It's not just, it's a great concept, but it's like, no, they made a thing that's deeply personal and the audience showed up. It just felt really special. And the seeing that win made me go like, that's cool. That's cool.
00:19:14
Speaker
great, like ah that kind of theater can still succeed. doesn't have to be, this is not to besmirch movie adaptations into musicals, but you know, sometimes I think from my limited vantage point, it can feel like that is sort of the trend of what most Broadway It's like, Hey, here's this movie, you know, and it's a musical.
00:19:34
Speaker
And so to see maybe happy ending be really something original different. Do you, do you have any thoughts on that from this year knowing what you know? um i feel like okay here's what i'll say is that seeing lauren michaels get up to accept the tony put me in a weird feeling um you know when schmigadoon wins that's you know he's gonna get up there and to me that almost feels like the corporatization of theater in a nutshell right there it's like okay here's another guy who already has his hand and one of the most popular broadcast television shows in history. And now he's now he's in theater. So now he's making more money and you know it'll go towards that. ah Does that have influence in the decision of giving Schmigadoon the Tony? I don't know. Because again, who's to say what show worked the hardest, what show means the most? like we We have no way to measure that.
00:20:28
Speaker
No way to quantify that. Yeah. No way to quantify that. So, so to compare maybe maybe happy ending, I would say maybe happy ending was on a level of two strangers for me, which is like a newer concept, smaller show in the scale of just like, it's not big production numbers, but it's just a little bit more meaningful conversation through song. And i I think it's one of those things where it's like, we're always going to bounce. So last year we had a maybe happy ending winning. Schmigadoon is this year's winner. So now we're back to like, hey, this is old school musical theater because we're poking fun at those tropes. And it's big production numbers and it's lavish costumes.
00:21:06
Speaker
And so it ebbs and flows. And I think it ultimately comes down to the Broadway League saying, what's going to make us the most money? What's the most marketable? And yeah maybe Happy Ending is marketable. They're doing really well. They're still doing great a year later. So there who I don't know what the life of Schmigadoon will be, but as has been spoken about before, especially when we talk about Avenue Q, you know there ultimately is the decision is made to do whatever benefits the business side of theater first, the artistry will always come in the on the tail end of that.
00:21:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I, it's, yeah this is going to sound like such a cliche, but I really, i really mean this. I have really started to think when I look at award shows now, I'm like, it's great. It's great to honor. It's great to honor the artists. And so many people in those shows probably marks their debut and and whatnot.
00:22:04
Speaker
But I often think like with the Lauren Michaels of it all, I go, It doesn't take away from somebody's ability to find talent. Like, I'm sure Lorne Michaels is very, very good at what he does. It's why he, it's why SNL continues to be a ah staple of of comedy. But I go, there's so many people that we could find. There's so many people that have brilliance that nobody knows about.
00:22:31
Speaker
I feel this way too when people really gravitate towards a performer or something where they go, oh my God, this person's amazing. And you're like, yeah, yeah, they're amazing. And you think they're amazing because they got the opportunity to do the thing.
00:22:43
Speaker
And there's a lot of other people in the wings that that could do that, that if you could see them do it, you'd also be a huge fan, but they're just not getting the chance to do it. And so I posted this on, on the socials the day after the Tony's having not watched it, but I, but the did my takeaway from, we talked about this with award shows a little bit earlier this year, but I find myself more and more removed from them.
00:23:09
Speaker
And it's not because I'm like jaded and like, well, I don't care. It's not that, but more so i am so reminded that there are, so there's never been more opportunities outside of that system to make, to make your ah work that you can that connect to an audience. You know, we've talked about obsession. We talked about back rooms. That is a, is a film thing about creators who went and found an audience online i I think with theater performers, sometimes it can feel like New York and Broadway, that is where all roads lead to.
00:23:43
Speaker
And I think you and i firsthand can say that's actually not true. Like there are ways to, yes, I mean, we are very lucky with some of the projects we've worked on and we're super lucky that People care. But my point is there is an audience for things that are not on Broadway that are not winning Tony's. And so kind of my message to like performers and creators and craftspeople is like, yes, if that's a route you you take and you find yourself there, absolutely own it.
00:24:08
Speaker
What an amazing thing. But as somebody who used to think I need to be in that, can i if I don't ever find myself in those circles, I will have failed.
00:24:18
Speaker
I'm like really finding a peace being like that that is a path for other people. And I don't need to be in that world to make work that I'm proud of or to find an audience. So yeah It's a little trite, but i genuinely I'm thinking that more and more and more as
Original work vs. mainstream success
00:24:34
Speaker
someone who used to be obsessed with one day I got to be there to make to really make it count that I did this with my life.
00:24:42
Speaker
Does that make sense? No, it totally does because i I hope this doesn't bite me in the ass, but there are times where I'll watch some of these performances or the Tony Awards or something and I used to say, oh God, I want to be in that show.
00:24:54
Speaker
And I haven't had that feeling in a while. So what does it say about me? I have no idea. um Maybe something will spark that joy for me down the line. But right now I'm kind of just all right, well, I see what it is. And hopefully i will get that excitement again to like, like the way that I feel about cats watching that show. is like, Oh God, yeah theater, theater is back. Let me see that.
00:25:16
Speaker
Yeah. I think i was, I was really inspired. I was inspired. Um, because i I got a chance to hang out with Darren before maybe happy ending had been announced. And he told me a little bit about the show. And I remember him telling me like, I don't know if it's, I don't know. I think the show is amazing, but I don't know if the audience will be there for, I guess we don't know. We, it's a, it's an unknown quantity and, but he's like, I really believe in it. And I'm,
00:25:41
Speaker
um I'm taking whatever resources I can and putting it into it. And it was just really exciting for me to go, oh I still do. i love, i it's why I was meaningful to watch him in the show in. Cause I was like, that's the kind of theater I would love to do. And if I got a chance to make something original and new and it got all the way to that stage, that would be amazing. I would be so stoked and thrilled.
00:26:08
Speaker
But the thing that I'm really drawn to is making something new, not necessarily it having to go that particular route and that that lane. So, you know, hey, if you're watching and you're somebody who's interested in the performing arts, I'm just like,
00:26:23
Speaker
local regional community theater, putting on a play with your friends, like that stuff can be just as meaningful. Um, and in many ways is ah those experiences I had when I was 15, 16, 17, 18, making little plays with my friends and you know, our children's theater community group, those are actually way more formative and substantial experiences than even like I don't know, doing like the glee tour or something, which, which is probably for me, the pinnacle of the most people I've ever performed to.
00:26:55
Speaker
It was awesome, but not nearly as formative as like, I did a show for 20 people, but like it was my first play I ever wrote. And I got a chance to like be a writer and do something.
00:27:06
Speaker
That's actually way more important in my life than the scale of the venue and the size of of the venue. You know, last week, I actually got to see the show that my friend Emily produced. It was called We Don't Know featuring the Seaweed Sisters. Now, the Seaweed Sisters, this trio of dancers um that are not blood related, but their characters, they kind of speak in this gibberish um and they kind of move very awkwardly. And and and it's ah it's very very much a mix of dance and clowning, I would say.
00:27:36
Speaker
But it was so much fun and it's a show that it it truly is geared toward like a more kid friendly energy, but there were it was you know obviously full of adults. And everyone in that room had such a good time.
00:27:49
Speaker
This is something that you know is not on some huge stage. They did transform the space that they had downtown and and just made it into something so whimsical and fun. and it It reminded me that in the way that we were talking last week about how these newcomers making these films like Backrooms and Obsession, the same thing is happening with theater on ah on a molecular level where we're seeing really inventive stuff. I think my algorithm in this last week just started pushing all kinds of experimental theater at me. And I've been watching people around the world doing this really cool take on live theater that is not your standard Broadway and even West End to that to that extent. um Because it doesn't have mass appeal, quote unquote, it's not going to get necessarily the money or the funding to to produce that. But the real intent and art is there. And I think it's encouraging to know that on the same way, like I said, with with these films, independent artists or lesser known artists, the same thing is happening with these people in theater. And I encourage people to look and go out and see these things because you're going to find something so fulfilling
00:28:51
Speaker
ah And watching new perspectives in an art form that you've that you're accustomed to that you've already seen. But now it's like great. Let me see this thing in the round. Let me watch this turntable consistently move. Let me see these costume pieces that aren't normally worn. Like I'm really finding some fun stuff out there that um is not on a big, highly produced stage.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's, ah I mean, yeah, again, i go what what ah given the chance, what i would I be grateful for the opportunity? is like Yeah, of course, like that would be cool. But i yeah, you there's there's so much meaning and joy to be found in small, weird, tiny bizarre off the beaten path things that, you know, for, for a lot of investors putting money into things, they need something that's kind of a sure thing. That's the, that's where the confidence of investing. So it reduces the amount of creative risk you can take. So you go, want to, if I want to have the most creative risk possible,
00:29:48
Speaker
Probably the smaller and the more off the beaten path, the more value you get in that arena. And, you know, make you you make those calculations. You do some things in your life where you're like, the safe bet is a sure bet and I'm going to get paid and or the notoriety or whatever. And then the other things you go, this is for me. This is for me to do the weird thing that I want to do.
00:30:08
Speaker
Yeah, think you need both. I think you need both. You need both. um You know, while we're on this independent thing, i think we should go into our main topic today because Kurt and I both want to talk about some video games today.
00:30:21
Speaker
ah
Game analysis: 'Inside'
00:30:22
Speaker
This is a gamer podcast now. We're officially in the in the gamer podcast world. um So, ah Kurt, I'm actually going to start with you. What are you into? This week I fell down a rabbit hole of a 10 year old video game. Um, so I'm so late to this. Um, this has come and gone and we received many accolades and awards and,
00:30:46
Speaker
And 10 years later, I, for some reason, stumbled onto it. um And I was really, really surprised at how I connected to it. The game is called Inside. it is a 2016 puzzle platformer from the developer Playdead, which is a Danish studio who also made a game called Limbo.
00:31:03
Speaker
um There's no dialogue. There's not even a score. There's no music. um There's really no explanation really around the game. It's really a, you hit the ground running. You are a boy in a red shirt.
00:31:16
Speaker
ah running away, trying to not get captured. You're running through this gray industrial world. um And from the jump, something is hunting you. it is after you. You are always kind of being pursued. um And in the moments of respite where you're not being pursued, you're trying and trying to figure out your way through these obstacles. um It was a critical hit when it came out. It had its moment, so I'm coming to it very, very late. It won a ton of awards. um Some people decided was one of the best games of the decade.
00:31:48
Speaker
um But I finally played it in 2026, and I got to say, i actually don't think it's ever been more relevant than it is right now. And the central idea, again, not explained, not handheld, but it is very much about conformity. um And I would say, you know, in 2026, looking at this game and playing this game from a cultural, digital, online, and also political standpoint, it really has been just hitting me in a really profound way.
00:32:20
Speaker
um The central image of the game is like crowd control and mind control and conformity. And you spend like huge portions of inside blending into groups, shuffling around, becoming compliant, pretending to be compliant.
00:32:34
Speaker
you actually at some points take on the power of of controlling these people and making them compliant to your needs to so escape and to survive.
00:32:49
Speaker
And that's a really interesting thing because immediately what it makes me think about is this idea of – Whether we're talking about politics being you know whatever country we're born into, not really up to us.
00:33:01
Speaker
um Or even just even in the digital space and in in the algorithms of of these the worlds that we live in, you go, i didn't choose this, but I need to survive it. i need to get through it. And I need to, where I think a lot of us, especially, I'm not trying to pit ages against each other, but I feel like a lot of millennials are very much in this space of like, This thing was supposed to be liberating to us. it was the internet, the digital access was supposed to give us more opportunities and more freedom. And in many ways, it's become this authoritarian conforming force. And I think a lot of us are trying to find ways to escape it and leave it behind.
00:33:41
Speaker
when do you come When do you become complicit in a system that you didn't choose to be born into while trying to navigate it you know i think about this with like just late-stage capitalism, and you go, i need money to survive. I hate the system. I hate that we have to do this, but I need it, so I'm going to participate anyways. but i don't I was thinking about all these things while playing. And on top of that, the game is a platformer, and I do not like platform games. I've never enjoyed platforming. i've like There is no game I've ever played
00:34:13
Speaker
like I mean, I mean, Mario, I played it when I was a kid. And, but even then I, I find platforming to be kind of confounding. Cause I'm like, why, why are you making me do all this? Like complicated. I just want to play. I want a story. That's what I always think I want.
00:34:27
Speaker
So I went into this being like, I don't know if I'm going to enjoy this. And for some reason, maybe it's the themes, maybe it's the mood. But I found the puzzles really interesting and really immersive and really emotionally effective.
00:34:42
Speaker
And i in a way that platforms annoy me, i haven't been feeling that. I've gotten stuck a few times. i' I'm not beyond looking up a hint. If I'm like doing the same thing for an hour, I'm like, all right, I got to let me just do a quick Google here. Yeah, but man, I'm only about I'm probably about halfway through the game so far.
00:35:00
Speaker
And I just think it's such a masterpiece. It's haunting. It's beautiful. It's um scary. It's sad. It's savage. um But it's so creative too. Like there's this one section I just got to recently where like you get into a submarine and you just descend into the depths of the water and it's just the world opens up. And I just was like, oh,
00:35:22
Speaker
And i was like, this is what a game can do that that no other platform or medium can. So, um yeah, man, it's just... it The controls also feel kind of like thematically resonant in the sense that there's no map, there's no explanation.
00:35:37
Speaker
you know, you deviate from it and you die. And so you kind of are forced to... continue on no matter what to survive. And that to me is thematically resonant. Um, anyway, 10 years later, just want hear, just want to say inside is great.
00:35:53
Speaker
Um, feels like a game made for like this specific moment in culture, in politics, in the world. Um, it's really good. That's inside 2016.
00:36:04
Speaker
So the question, the first question I have for you then, um, because it is a 10 year old game, Where were you, do you think, 10 years ago that this game didn't necessarily reach you? As in, like was it something you weren't interested in or were you just not in a place to accept a game like that?
00:36:21
Speaker
You know, my history with video games is strange because I grew up, child of the ninety s where... my And i love my parents, love my family, but there was very much a video games are a waste of time. They are a they'd kill your brain cells. You should be reading.
00:36:40
Speaker
And so I just did not play games growing up. I had brief moments where I go to a friend's house and play GoldenEye on in sixty four or something. And because it was never a thing that I was a consistent thing in in my life, when I became an adult and moved to Los Angeles, it wasn't like I still held on to that, but I just never, I never gave it space. I never, i was like, ah, I missed my window.
00:37:05
Speaker
I I'll never play games. So in 2016, was rocking out with movies, movies, movies. And, you know television and theater. And it really was when we did Nerdy Proofs Must die Will Branner and John Madison, just and during conversations in the dressing room, we just started talking about games and Will's a big gamer and obviously John is. And they just were like, hey, here's like a list of some interesting games to try out. And it kind of started my journey into it.
00:37:33
Speaker
um And in the last few years, i haven't played a ton, but I've definitely just been what did i miss? What are these, what things did I miss in the last 10, 20 years that i wish? And this one was one that came up as a recommendation just thematically.
00:37:48
Speaker
and I was like, yeah I'm going to try it It was like 12 bucks. It was on sale. um So yeah, I just, I wasn't even in the ecosystem. I didn't even have a console back in, back in 2016 to, to, to play on.
00:38:00
Speaker
um But it's so weird how and even looking at, i was like, Oh, it's 10 years old. Is it going to be like janky? And i was like, Nope, it's, Still blowing my mind creatively. um And like I said, thematically, I'm like, did they make a movie? Did they make a game about right now? But I guess these these themes are as old as time, you know, these, yeah these, these patterns of of fascism and authoritarianism and conformity.
00:38:26
Speaker
They repeat themselves over and over. And it's a good reminder. It's an encouragement to go, to not be, to not give up hope that when you feel the crushing weight of that, that it's, this is the end. You go, no, you know what? We've dealt with this before. We'll deal with it again. But that means that we need to rise to the occasion and like, think about it and deal with it. But these are recurring themes that continue throughout the struggle of just like getting, getting better as as as a species.
00:38:54
Speaker
Oh, totally. Yeah. One of my favorite things about the medium of video games is that they are able to either do social commentary, political commentary, something emotional. They're able to do it in such a way that it almost tricks you into learning something about yourself. um We talked about mixtape a few episodes ago. about how much that impacted you. um I've brought up a few times Claire Obscure, which, you know, that was another one recommended by Will Branner. We should get him on the podcast, actually.
00:39:26
Speaker
Love to. But we... um the I had never liked... turn based RPGs. And yet Claire Obscure was such a great experience for me because it was so cinematic, but B, the story was so gripping. Like I, and it's because it was it's a story about grief and loss and how do you deal with that? Which for me was very ah poignant in my life at the time.
00:39:50
Speaker
And video games, to go from, you know i i grew up playing Sonic and Mario and all like the second Genesis, and Nintendo, like I had all those things. I didn't know that you could get such a narrative in these video games until I got much older. And then once you did, you realized the world of of emotions and, and, and grief and struggles. And it's beyond just the combat portions, which I love. I love a hack and slash. Don't get me wrong. God of war. One of my favorite video game series of all time. Are you excited about the new God of war? Oh, and that we could do that a whole other podcast just about that. Because that looks incredible. Those 20 minutes of video game footage look incredible. And I can't wait to play that game. um
00:40:33
Speaker
ah But but yeah, just like just knowing that there's so much storytelling capabilities for these games is what makes experiences like yours so wonderful because, yeah, it's a puzzle game, but that's just its surface underneath. There's so much more you can pull from that. And that, I think, is what makes the best kind of video games in terms of escapism.
00:40:53
Speaker
There's this incredible moment where it's it's like not even one of the more epic moments of the game so far, but there's this moment where you're in this warehouse and you sort of fall through a roof and you're in line with a bunch of people who have kind of become sort of a zombie, not zombies, but very like drones.
00:41:13
Speaker
And there's guards and dogs watching you. And you very quickly realize what the game is wants you to do is when there's a cue, everybody starts walking and you need to walk in the same pace. And then they all stop at the same moment and you need to like blend in. And then they go into this little area where like they jump twice and you need to like learn their patterns and like do their patterns. And like you're doing a you're you're it's a puzzle, but you're literally going, I need to blend in with everyone. I need to become i need to conform to survive.
00:41:43
Speaker
like, man, what a great way to like take a really dense, a really on the nose, um heavy handed metaphor, but make you literally, literally jump, literally walk in their steps, literally fit in. i was just like, God, this is great. This is so effective emotionally while I'm, I'm also like recognizing the patterns and, um,
00:42:08
Speaker
You know, I, the, one of the most profound emotional experiences I've ever had with a piece of media was last of us too. yeah I know lot of people didn't like that game, but for me, you know,
00:42:23
Speaker
Playing the first one and then ah kind of jumped in late to that whole franchise. i came in maybe a year after Last of Us 2 came out and to like have to then play as the other character and have to sort of be the one to press the button to do the thing that I couldn't believe that I had to do, but I knew I needed it.
00:42:43
Speaker
i I guess I never understood until I played games that there is something additive of being the one to have to make the decision. Sometimes some stories work better as a movie. I i just want to sort of be a fly on the wall. But when it's the right story that forces you to engage and I have to be the one to make the choice to open the door, to go into the room, to swing the ax, to do the thing, it adds something. And I don't think you can get that from movies and TV. So...
00:43:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm on a journey of just trying to um be open to more diverse experiences and realizing that games are not just Call of Duty. That can be a blast. That can be so much fun.
00:43:24
Speaker
But like, I didn't even know a game like Inside existed, you know? Yeah. So ah just, man, just just really, really special stuff.
00:43:35
Speaker
And hey, if anybody's anybody in in the comments or anything like have any recommendations for really interesting off the beaten path stuff, I'm super open to it. I will say I don't like cozy games. I find them to be an absolute waste of my time and I don't want to do it. I don't i don't want i don't want to fish.
00:43:53
Speaker
i don't want I don't want to build a cabin. i don't but i don't care about your trees. No, and but but some people find that incredibly lovely and therapeutic and relaxing. And I think that's lovely. Kim really enjoys a cozy game.
00:44:09
Speaker
I have tried. Not for me, but if it's like dystopian and bleak and depressing, send them my way.
Game analysis: 'Blueprints'
00:44:20
Speaker
um In general, like and I promise this is a bridge to what I'm about to talk about, but what is your relationship specifically to puzzle games?
00:44:30
Speaker
Do you like it in general or just you happen to like this one? I have never liked puzzles as a concept. I don't find often fun in you as the creator trying to stump me.
00:44:47
Speaker
And I don't find that much joy in solving a thing that was arbitrarily made confusing so that i had to solve it. Yeah. If the mystery or the puzzle is intentionally obscure because it makes sense thematically and emotionally to the character, i find that really meaningful.
00:45:08
Speaker
That's just how my brain works. It doesn't mean puzzles are bad. But for me, like as a kid, my mom would be like, let's make a puzzle. And I'd be like, why? why Like, why did they cut it up into a billion pieces? And why do I have to put it back to like, I find that annoying. I'm like, not, I don't find anything remotely relaxing about it. It makes me pissed off. It makes me angry.
00:45:31
Speaker
Yeah. So that's why I was like really surprised because a lot of times when I'm playing games and I get to a really complicated puzzle, I'm just like, can I, can you like, if I can tell that the game designers are like, you got to find, I go just fricking, I go to YouTube. i go, what is, i just, I want to play the story.
00:45:50
Speaker
I've had people tell me like, that's how dare you. So I totally get it. So that's what I, when I went into this game, i was expecting, i was like, I'm probably not going to, but I found myself being like, I'm not going to look it up.
00:46:02
Speaker
No, I want to find it. And I don't know why. I don't know what it is about the design of this particular game that I found really, i feel smart. I feel, i feel like I'm really making choices and I'm like seeing things in a way that I just have never experienced with other puzzle games. So I don't know. I'd in general, I've, I've, it's just my brain, the way my brain works, but I find puzzles like frustrating in a way that, because I've never found it satisfying to solve them.
00:46:35
Speaker
yeah Um, Yeah, it's the same reason why when I watch a TV show or movie, I'm the least, the thing that I'm least interested in is like solving the plot. Like when someone's like, ooh, let's solve it. I go, why don't, that's not the point. i don't watch it to solve it. I watch it because I want to, I want to feel something.
00:46:53
Speaker
This game is like letting me feel something by solving. And I know there's, I'm sure there's other games out there like this and I would love to, i would love to try them and I would love to be open to, to like experimenting. That's kind of my, that's kind of my relationship with puzzle puzzles and puzzle games in general.
00:47:11
Speaker
Okay, that's this is good to know because i feel like everyone, i feel like this is something that impacts everybody. Whether you like puzzles, whether you don't like them. Because there's an element of accomplishment that is inherent to a puzzle, right? that's That's the thing, like you have to solve. So either you enjoy your journey of getting there or you are just like, eh, whatever, pass it and just never accomplish. You just don't want to do it.
00:47:37
Speaker
And that was me for a very long, time especially physical puzzles. I give me a puzzle with negative space and I will light the entire house on fire because I just don't understand. Like I have to sit there and try to minutely figure out which angle. No, and I don't want to do that. And so I would stay away from puzzle games for a very long time.
00:47:54
Speaker
um and And even the closest to what I'm about to talk about would be like a roguelike game in which your map changes every time you play it. So therefore, your strategy can be sort of consistent, but you do have to be able to adapt in order to accomplish the goal.
00:48:12
Speaker
But the game that I'm into and the thing I want to talk about today is called Blueprints. So this is yes a lot about this game. So this came out last year. So I was also late to this and I only started playing about a month ago.
00:48:25
Speaker
but Mary Kate and Sean have raved about this. They played it for like a a long time together every night that were like that. That was our thing. Yes. I've heard a lot about this. um And Brian Holden was the one that told me about it. And this is a game where and they right off the bat, they're going to tell you like, hey, you need to get to this point.
00:48:44
Speaker
this And you know on the map where you need to get. But just so you know, every day you go to sleep, the map's going to change and you can't you're never going to go the same way twice. And because of that, you have to now investigate every room and everything. And that's the other thing is that you're not going to get every single room the same time. So you are going to go through, and it depends on the player, right? Because I've seen speed runs where some people have who have already beaten the game are able to do it on day one, which is a thing you can do in this game. But essentially, every day you go to sleep, you will hopefully the next day retain some of the information from what you've learned, apply that to the next rooms you're going to have access to in the next day and so on and so forth.
00:49:25
Speaker
What for me I took out of this, because i'm I'm nowhere near the end of this game, I have so much more to discover and and and traverse through. There's an element of failure that we have to get comfortable with.
00:49:36
Speaker
And then once you get comfortable with that failure, you have to stop calling it failure. You have to be okay with not reaching a certain goal by a certain time. And i and that is not necessarily the thematic purpose of this game, but it's something that I'm learning by playing this because I'm definitely one of those people who, if I've learned the combos, if I've broken up all the chests, I've achieved everything I need to do to level up my character, I should now beat the final boss and I should win the game. And that is not how this game works.
00:50:05
Speaker
You have to go this way today, figure out the little items that you need to pick up, maybe craft some things, take that outside. Maybe you're going to have to spend a little bit money today that you didn't spend yesterday.
00:50:15
Speaker
And all that is just to get a little bit further than you did the day before. And then sometimes you might have to regress. You don't get as much progression the next day just because of the nature of the map as and how it changed.
00:50:29
Speaker
Right. And there's something so calming about that because now I'm not looking at it as, man, I didn't get to the room. What's wrong with me? How am I not figuring this out? But rather, ooh, what did I learn today?
00:50:42
Speaker
What did I figure out? What new mystery did I discover? Because there is a story that i I don't want to reveal to anyone who hasn't played this yet. But there are things that you will read or you will find that give you a larger story than just you need to get to this room.
00:50:57
Speaker
There's something so fun to discover in this game. And I would not have played this game 10 years ago. I wouldn't have played an inside. But I've now decided that it's much more fulfilling for me to challenge myself.
00:51:12
Speaker
and not just hack and slash, but also so ruminate and think and and stop and observe and take in the environment. um I think there's something really fulfilling about a puzzle like that. And it sounds like with inside to where you've got to figure out the mechanics of just how to get through this day or this level. um and and And with that comes that sense of accomplishment in just getting a little bit better than you were the day before, rather than looking at it as a failure or you're not being able to rise to the occasion on that moment. So I've really enjoyed the journey so far of Blueprints and I'm excited to to uncover more of the mystery before before this ending.
00:51:55
Speaker
i um I don't know if this is true. i don't know if this true. It's the theory I'm putting out there, but I'm like, it is interesting to think about how you and i both have grown probably exponentially in the last 10 years as creatives is you and I both stepping into positions of directing, of ah staging, of thinking about things. I think a lot about you know what I do in terms of working on scenes and the way I think about characters and I used to just kind of go, I'll just, I'll just do it.
00:52:26
Speaker
And, and I, and it's so interesting, like even in my own like acting work, how much I've been enjoying over the past year, thinking more about scenes like a puzzle and being like, what can I do to unlock this? And how can i play with it? And directorially it's the same thing. And so I wonder if there's some of that just comes with maturity of,
00:52:47
Speaker
thinking about things. And like you said, I love what you just highlighted about the creative process very much is recognizing like, no, I am going to fail like a hundred percent. Like it's not trying to even mitigate failure.
00:53:01
Speaker
It's going, no, no, that's inevitable. So then every time that I fail, great. What am i what do I retain? What do I learn from that? Like that is, there's a real maturity where even 15 years ago, it's like, oh, I, I didn't do this one thing. Right. So it's all,
00:53:17
Speaker
Now i'm like, no, of course not. I was talking to a student recently and they had a big audition and they were like, do you think, do you think yeah like think they'll book it? And I was like, I have no idea.
00:53:29
Speaker
Probably not. Like just, just on paper. yeah um but you did a great job. And you like, well, what is it? What is that? Oh, who cares if we didn't book it? And was no,
00:53:39
Speaker
You did the thing, man. You did it. youre Look at all you've learned. Look at this. This amazing. And they're like, so we're going to book it. And i was like, oh, I have no idea. It's like, you go i did that is that is almost at this point for me, the result is kind of almost irrelevant. It's what I can learn from the process and apply it. So. It sounds like both of these games kind of tap into that feeling of embracing like,
Video game life lessons
00:54:03
Speaker
yeah, I'm going to fall off the cliff. I'm going to fall over the building and die. The dog's going to attack me or whatever. I'm going to get caught. but But then I'll go back to it and go, okay, what do I want to do this time?
00:54:15
Speaker
What did I miss here? That's really interesting. Yeah. It's almost – it's strangely like a weird leveling up even without gaining the power or whatever you know because I think knowledge in and of itself is is something that's very – oh, God, I can't think of another word to say besides powerful. So now I'm just saying knowledge is power.
00:54:35
Speaker
G.I. Joe. but it's But it's just so fun to feel like a sense of accomplishment just by learning something. right? Just by saying like, oh, well, now I know how to get to that door. So when I get back, I know exactly what I need. And that lets me into this next thing. um and and And I i wonder, how how does this then, because this is let's let's make this a broader conversation.
00:54:57
Speaker
How does that impact not only the creative process, but you as a person? Because I look at um how I just walk through conversations with people. I'm a little bit more intent on listening to what they're saying rather is what do I want out of this? It's like, okay, well, how are you feeling? Like, but not like let me key into this. Let me listen to you a little bit more clearly because there's clearly something i i'm not paying attention to or a perspective I haven't heard. And it's like opened my eyes to just being a little bit more um well curious as we talk about in this podcast. It's a little more curious about where I'm at in this exact moment.
00:55:32
Speaker
And then what can I take away? What can I extract from this interaction? Apply it somewhere else. Do you feel that? Do you see that in your everyday life? Absolutely. In fact, what that makes me think of is how i think when I was younger, i really valued thinking that thinking I thought I thought that I could learn and know everything about any given thing that I was doing.
00:55:55
Speaker
So I really valued like I know everything. Nothing is hidden. Nothing is mysterious. I know what to do in any given situation. The older I get, the more I'm like, I'm really getting comfortable going like, I really don't know.
00:56:08
Speaker
There's a lot that I don't know and I don't understand. But if I can stay curious and stay open to having my mind changed, having new perspectives, having new intel and new data that shifts how I think about things.
00:56:24
Speaker
That like willingness to go, i actually don't know a lot. It forces me to be much more curious about discovery and trial and error in a way that maybe a younger self full of hubris and ego was like, I don't want any mystery. I just want to know what to do in any given situation.
00:56:44
Speaker
It also is kind of reflective. Maybe we've talked about this, about how I've been really been craving stories that don't feel like they hold your hand and provide a pat answer or reason, but that are that are much more vibes and much more mood. Cause I feel like it reflects where I'm at in my life where I I'm like, I don't know.
00:57:01
Speaker
i don't know exactly what, here's why everything means everything. And here's what I believe about, but I'm like, don't know. I'm just kind of experiencing things and, i'm I'm so much more aware now of what I don't know. ah more It's a classic U2 lyric from a City of Blinding Lights. The more you see, the less you know, the less you find out as you go.
00:57:24
Speaker
knew much more then than I do now. And I go, that is growing up. You're like, I thought I knew everything. I thought that I didn't need to uncover and open you know open the door and pick up the rock and see because I already know.
00:57:36
Speaker
Now as adults, I'm like, I don't know anything about the world and reality. And i actually think having myself humbled and being reminded that every day I can learn something new because I actually really don't know much.
00:57:50
Speaker
think it's a really beautiful way to go through the world because it keeps you keeps you curious. It keeps you open to new perspectives. It makes you listen to other people because you're like, I actually don't your perspective could totally change everything that I think I understand about something. So um yeah, it feels like maybe that's, maybe that's part of It's why we're maybe being drawn to experiences that are less, less linear and exact and more,
00:58:19
Speaker
Find your way and see what happens. Find your way and and every day being different. Okay. I'm going to go way left on this though. um Because i was I had this thought the other day, video game logic, just in everyday life. So ah this is more just a thing like ah because I've played video games for so long, i'm one of the things I'm just keyed in on is before I approach a situation, I'm assessing it. So it's like if you if there was a door you're supposed to open, you kind of like look around. Is this a boss level? Do I hear music? um Is there anything on the ground? Do I need to collect anything before I progress forward?
00:58:52
Speaker
The reason I brought that up is because i I was at an intersection and I was approaching it. And it was a red light, so I'm already slowing down. But something told me as I was just looking, i was like, I need to stop just a little bit sooner.
00:59:07
Speaker
than I need to. and So not right at the line of the crosswalk, but a little bit before that. So I was looking around and I did stop a little bit before and wouldn't you know it, this car coming from the other direction just cut the cut the turn so close that if I had pulled at the line, they would have hit me.
00:59:26
Speaker
And it's just one of those things where you're just like watching and like, and I i can't completely attribute that to to video games, but there's so many times in my life where I'm just thinking like, I'm scanning. I'm scanning. Where's my map? Do I see any danger here? All right. I'll wait. I'll wait. You know, and that happens so much. It does. Have you ever had moments like that?
00:59:44
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think too, like relating it back to the idea of being more curious about your world. It's like, I find the older I get, the more I go into an environment excited about what's around the corner or like discovering, like, what do I not know about the situation in a way that I used to, I used to find confidence in thinking that I had, I had already planned for every possible situation.
01:00:13
Speaker
variable and I'm finding myself more comfortable being like, there's going to be variables. That means i actually really need to to stay focused and watch and observe so that I can be aware of the variables versus like assuming that I'm so proficient that I just, I'm, I can speed run it, you know? It's like, it's the difference between trying to speed run a game and genuinely being like, what's behind this door?
01:00:36
Speaker
hey What's over there? Wait, did you notice that little glimmer behind that rock? Should we go check it out? It's like, i actually think there's something really nice about approaching life that way versus just speed running. Like I know exactly what I want and how to get it. And, and, and everyone is kind of a ah ah utility to me accomplishing my goal versus like, I had this happen the other day. I was, I was having a particularly,
01:00:58
Speaker
um A day that I had planned to go a certain way was abruptly going a different way. And I remember just being like, I'm so mad that this is, and I was like, wait a second. This is happening.
01:01:11
Speaker
You're out of, you're out you, things are out of your control. You did not plan for any of these variables. so approach it with curiosity. oh okay. Instead of just being mad, because I tend to get, I tend to be somebody who gets really frustrated when, if I make a plan,
01:01:28
Speaker
I'm like, we're going to go to the movie at seven. and We're going to meet for dinner at five 30. and if anything like goes off, I get really frustrated about like, that's not the plan. It's not the plan. The plan was this. And I used to feel that way, but my own life, like by the time I'm 25, I'm going I've done this and then, in and then I'm going to do this by 30. And so I had over COVID in the last few years, I had some sort of,
01:01:52
Speaker
existential crisis of like the plan is not working. And I think in the last year I've kind of been like, there is no plan, baby. There's I'm here. And, and yeah, there's goals and there's things I'd like to do, but, but if they don't happen, then, then I'm doing something else. And okay. Like it doesn't, I don't always feel that way. It's not complete Zen, but there is something about going,
01:02:20
Speaker
okay, this is where I'm at. All right. What is it? What's here? oh Yeah. I think that's a really healthy way to look at life versus... but You know, there's the best things in my life happened in times where I thought I would be doing something else.
01:02:36
Speaker
I swore like I'm supposed to be here doing this. And then the best encounters and the most meaningful relationships, the things that have brought me to the relationships I have now all happened when I wasn't doing the thing that I thought I was going to do. wow And I think that's important to remember that.
01:02:55
Speaker
um I think what is it? I'm going to butcher this quote, but it's life is what happens when you make other plans. oh right think I think that's the quote. I might be wrong on that, but it's basically like, you know, yeah, I did the same thing. Life is what happens when when you're making plans. Life is what happens when you're making plans. That's what it is.
01:03:17
Speaker
and um And it's one of those things where, yeah, we back to that millennial thing, right? We were all told that there's this ladder we can climb and there's all this stuff we can achieve if you just work hard and and focus. And when that shattered for us,
01:03:30
Speaker
I think millennials specifically had to reimagine what life looks like because housing is not as affordable as it used to be. It's not feasible to have kids if we if that's the route that you want to go. um Job market is is terrible. And so if we are to progress forward in life, we have to be able to adapt. And I think that's why these games are speaking to you and me and maybe other people right now is because You have to change your perspective every single day and adapt a little bit differently just so that you can feel A, fulfilled, but B, like you're moving in a forward progression.
01:04:08
Speaker
um And it's ah it's not easy. I'm not going to say that it is and I'm not going to say that I'm doing it perfectly because my God, i can't wait to talk to my therapist. is There's a lot I need to get through. But – Just having that curiosity and having that will to just say, okay, this didn't work today, but you know what?
01:04:23
Speaker
I learned that I can't talk to that person this way. I'm going to find a different way to do it. And next time you already know how to approach that situation. And that's okay that you change. This is going to sound petty compared to what you said was so beautiful and so true.
01:04:38
Speaker
But an experience I had last November, which is petty in that it's about acting, and I'm like ah whatever. It was actually really meaningful because it was a failure on, on the surface in that I did not book this opportunity, but I was up for a pretty substantial project from my perspective with actors who I revered artists that i could only imagine dreaming of working with. Like this is, I'm talking like, give me my fantasy of who would you dream of working with? It was the, it was those people.
01:05:11
Speaker
And I remember i got this audition and I had been in this this phase of just experimentation and in classes where I was doing all kinds of weird stuff that was like completely challenging how I thought about creating and performing. And I was way out of my comfort zone and I got the audition. And my first thought was like, you don't have a chance because would this is too big for you.
01:05:32
Speaker
And I was like, no, wait a second. Wait a second. You're, you're in a new phase. Like, screw it. Have fun. Be weird. And I did some weird stuff to prepare. I, I dressed up my studio and I i did like,
01:05:45
Speaker
I was doing interpretive move. I was doing some weird stuff to just be like, why not? I had so much fun with it. I sent it off and I was kind of like, whatever. And I got pinned for it.
01:05:58
Speaker
And for two months, I was on avail for this project. And it's funny because several people subsequently have been like, whatever happened? And I'll be oh, I don't think I booked because I never heard anything.
01:06:08
Speaker
Oh, and I'm like, no, yeah, I'm disappointed I didn't book it. But I had a major breakthrough and it's given me so much courage to be like, I was just, I just was like really curious about what would happen if I tried things in a totally different, weird way.
01:06:26
Speaker
And I, and I didn't even get what I wanted out of it, but what I got from it was really substantial in that I gave me a confidence to go, oh, I can work this way. Oh, I can do these things. So yeah.
01:06:41
Speaker
It's a great example of you can find so much meaning in a failure. Like I failed to do the objective, which was to be in this project and to be overseas filming this thing.
01:06:57
Speaker
But I learned I'm capable of that. I can work in a different way. i can do these weird, bizarre, strange things to prepare that are really interesting and totally different. Yeah.
01:07:07
Speaker
Like I just learned so much and I didn't even get what hope to get out of it. So not nearly as profound as what you said, but just as an example of how like genuine, genuinely failure is fundamental and a really important part of the process. And if you can learn to go, course, I'm going to fail.
01:07:28
Speaker
That's fine. ah Genuinely, like that's the game. That is the game. I'm going to fail. I'm going to fall off the side of the roof. I'm going to hit the ground and the game is going to spit me back to where I started. And now I'm going to Great. right. What did I learn?
01:07:39
Speaker
um um I could think it's better way to think about things. I think what you had is that moment that people have an act in acting class that's so frustrating when your instructor says, go further. And it's the vaguest line that they could ever give you. And you're so mad at them and you almost break down crying and you complain to your classmates afterwards.
01:07:57
Speaker
But then when you – it clicks. There's that moment that it clicks for every actor where you're like, oh, sorry. That's what that meant. I did something that I yesterday could not have possibly have done, but you just found it within yourself to say, let me just try this. And the moment you abandon those inhibitions, it's the most freeing thing in the world.
01:08:18
Speaker
It's had such profound ripple effects.
Embracing creativity
01:08:20
Speaker
That one opportunity that I didn't even get has been maybe the most influential thing in my life in the last six months because I was like, well,
01:08:30
Speaker
Well, if I had so much fun taking a risk with that, why couldn't I apply that same logic to this thing or to this thing and approach it in a completely childlike, curious I thought I knew how to do this, but let me try a version and a method that I've never considered.
01:08:47
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know And so I've been having a lot of fun and all other things that have nothing to do with acting. Cause I keep being like, well, that didn't turn out so bad. So, you know, i think a failure in one arena can actually really give you the courage to go like, you're okay. Like you fell down.
01:09:05
Speaker
You're good. You, you, you're, you're still here. What else yeah you want to try it again? Like, yeah, sure. Sure. So um everyone just be on the lookout. Kurt will be playing him from the Powerpuff Girls. I'll be wearing the claws, the slick back hair, and the tutu. Coming soon to a theater near you. um Last thing before we wrap up, I just had this thought. So I want to know if you could pick one like video game feature. So it could be a power up. It could be a display bar. If there's one thing you could take and you could use it in your life, what would that be?
01:09:41
Speaker
Ooh, the one that comes to mind immediately is, you know, in games when you can like slow down a split second right before you're about to be in some kind of encounter. If I could do that, but like in conversations.
01:09:57
Speaker
because sometimes I talk I get really i just talk really fast and I it's like it's happening in a blur but like in a video game when you're going into a really intense moment sometimes you can like slow down time to like I think um what was it what was the samurai game that came out a few years ago Ghost of Tsushima Yeah, I think that that had that function. There's some other games that have that. If I could apply that to just real life scenarios where like all of a sudden we're heading towards some crazy thing and I can go, hmm, do I want to say this? Do I want to say this? Do I want to make this move? Do I want to make this move? Do I start...
01:10:36
Speaker
That would be sweet. So that, that combat function in, in conversation. Okay. Can I, that for a second, for no, for a second, I thought when you introduced that, thought that, uh, mechanic, I thought you were going to say, I want that. So either i know to avoid talking to that person or I stop myself from saying the wrong thing.
01:10:56
Speaker
all that too. Well, mostly it's the latter. Mostly it's the, you could have said something better or less because I leave every conversation going. Did I say something stupid? Did I say something dumb? Oh man, did i I, could have said that better. So if I could have the option to overthink in the moment yeah and not after, that would be great.
01:11:19
Speaker
um Okay. So here's mine. You know how you can get a stat reader um if you're maybe approaching an enemy or you're seeing like at a location or something. um yeah So rather than seeing, you know, if it's a level or strength, I want to see intelligence.
01:11:33
Speaker
Because if i never have to speak to someone dumber than me again, i will love to live that life. Go, nope. i Done with you. On to the next.
01:11:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's mine. It's like you're about to head into a confrontation. you see the stat and you go, you know what? I'm not even. Not even worth it Not even good. You could have used that on the cruise ship.
01:11:57
Speaker
Oh my God. The amount of, okay. This is the cap on that. Cause if I had known how stupid that interaction was going to be being on that ship, I would not have spent over $700 in alcohol my entire time there.
01:12:11
Speaker
Uh-huh. They give you it when you when you leave when you leave they give you a receipt of like how much you you bought and the crew bar is very inexpensive like the drinks are like dirt cheap. You can buy around yeah your friends and it's only 10 bucks. Somehow I managed to rack up $700 of alcohol by myself.
01:12:30
Speaker
Over a six a month period. Well, that's I mean, that's a long time. No, no, no, no. It was like a week. Don't don't testify this.
Reflection on drinking habits
01:12:39
Speaker
Don't rationalize it. This is part of the reason why I barely drink any more now, because that's how much I hated that experience was I drank every single night.
Coping mechanisms discussion
01:12:49
Speaker
but To function, to cope. To cope. Because you didn't have a stat reader. i didn't have a stat reader. That is exactly why. Yes. um All
Wrapping up
01:12:59
Speaker
right. This has been so much fun. But let's let's
Listener engagement
01:13:01
Speaker
wrap this up. So, ah friends, once again, you can always reach out to us at SoWhatAreYouIntoPod at gmail.com. We'll respond to your stuff. You can also find us on socials, TikTok.
01:13:11
Speaker
Instagram, YouTube at SoWhatAreYouIntoPod. Kurt, it's been a great time. It's been a pleasure. Friends, as we always like to say, stay curious. Stay curious.