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Movies Should Be Events Again (and Why Award Shows Feel Weird Now)
65 Plays3 months ago
Talking out loud about the stuff that won’t leave us alone.
Hosted by James Tolbert and Curt Mega, So, What Are You Into?! is a low-stakes conversation podcast built around cultural curiosity. Each episode we start with the things we’ve genuinely been into lately and see where the conversation goes.
This week the conversation circles around immersive moviegoing, the future of theaters, and the strange cultural space award shows occupy right now.
James brings:
• Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (Cosm immersive screening experience)
We dig into the growing world of immersive cinema spaces like Cosm and the Las Vegas Sphere and what happens when a classic movie becomes a full event. From themed environments and massive projection to the emotional power of revisiting a childhood favorite, we talk about how these experiences can make familiar films feel brand new.
Curt brings:
• Award shows (The Oscars, The Tonys, and the strange cultural push and pull around them)
Curt talks about his increasingly conflicted feelings about award shows. Are they still meaningful celebrations of artistic achievement, or have they become something more performative and disconnected from the audiences they claim to represent?
Both conversations circle back to a bigger question: what makes shared cultural experiences feel meaningful right now?
We talk about:
• Why immersive screenings can make movies feel like events again
• The fine line between innovation and gimmick in movie theaters
• The emotional power of revisiting formative films
• Why award shows feel both important and strangely hollow
So… what are you into right now?
Email us:
sowhatareyouintopod@gmail.com
Follow along:
Instagram + TikTok: @sowhatareyouintopod
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Transcript
Celebrating Episode 1 and Audience Engagement
00:00:03
Speaker
All right, it's episode one. Oh my gosh, we did it. which Last episode was episode zero. This is one. So it's like it's kind of like that Men in Black thing where we erase your mind and like it never actually happened. It never happened.
00:00:16
Speaker
That was just a possibility that we might do a thing. And I will say, i've kind of been, i don't want to say like shocked because I think it's a good concept, but I've been really happily surprised that so many people have like engaged with this so far. And we've only put out an intro basically. Yeah. um Yeah. I mean, I think I forgot about the value and just talking about things that you like with your friends.
00:00:47
Speaker
And maybe that's what people
Audience Appreciation and Social Media Interaction
00:00:49
Speaker
are engaging with. So thank you to those of you who have already tuned in and liked what we did the first time because we're going keep doing that. Yeah, thank you watching and listening and subscribing and between like the Instagram and the TikTok and the YouTube and people have been emailing in and we barely started. So I think that's a good, that's a great sign. Yes.
Listener Emails and Book Recommendations
00:01:08
Speaker
Speaking of which, so I just want to hit up a couple of these emails that we got, like this first one from Mila. Yeah, listener.
00:01:15
Speaker
Episode one, we've got listener emails. How crazy. Get on board now before the partnerships start, you know. This episode brought to you by HelloFresh. It's not. It's brought you by us. What's that one? It's brought to you by us. What's that one? The rocket one that everyone always... Oh, Rocket Mortgage. Yeah. Rocket money. Rocket money. It's like, how many things you subscribe to? Delete them all. Which maybe I need that. There's lot of better help, which I hear is maybe not great. So we'll see.
00:01:44
Speaker
i want therapy for everybody, but like it's when it's monetized the way that it is. i don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is brought to you by us. By our own sweat, blood and tears. We haven't sold out quite yet. um Okay. So we are available for purchase. No. truly Okay, so ah yeah, one of the first emails we got was from Mila.
00:02:06
Speaker
I hope you're saying your name correctly, but Mila brought up a book called The Deviants' War, a nonfiction historical recount of astronomer and LGBTQ plus activist Frank Kameni and his decades-long battle fighting against the discrimination of queer people in the U.S. government. um I love this because we haven't brought up books, and this is only our first episode, but ah We want to bring up books too. We're not just talking about film and TV. We're going to be talking about all kinds of media that inspires us. So I'm so glad you brought that up.
Reading Habits and Resolutions
00:02:39
Speaker
I also need to read more. I've made it new resolution to read more. That's one topics today.
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, wanting to just read a little bit more. I i used to do it so much. i I think what happened was after I graduated college, I went on this kick of only reading graphic novels, some of which are like sitting around me today.
00:03:00
Speaker
and ah So much of it was like of the visual aspect of, oh, I'm going to i'm going to look at these these these these frames and how cool the artwork is. And I got so enraptured with with looking through the lens of a comic book or a graphic novel that I forgot what it's like to just sit there and look at a blank, i'm not a blank page, but a book with words and use my imagination. So I need to get back into that.
00:03:21
Speaker
That's a goal of mine. I have a very similar trajectory where when I moved to Los Angeles about 15 years ago, i was like, okay, I'm all in on film and television. So I started reading screenplays and scripts and I just spent so much time reading that. And then I, you know, because I was writing a lot, I started reading books about writing and screenplay writing and writing sitcom pilot writing. And then, you know, as I, in the last few years, as I've started my own production company and business, I'm reading books about,
00:03:51
Speaker
running a business and and creative stuff. And so i just found myself getting out of the rhythm of reading fiction. um And this is not fiction in this case. This is a historical you know autobiography. is that Is that what this book is that our listener is referencing?
00:04:07
Speaker
I'm not sure. It's a non-fictional historical recount. Oh, recount. Great. Yes. You know, which is awesome. But I, I, yeah, I found myself just it's shifting away from that. And I'm just like you, James, I've been on this journey to kind of reconnect with that. My life growing up was just inundated with literature and reading. And that was my first foray into like imagination and storytelling and, uh,
00:04:30
Speaker
you know Everything is so visual now and we're you know you and i both do a lot of sort of visual art, whether it's theater or film or television. and so But yeah, I miss that part. And so I'm thrilled for this book recommendation. And it sounds like a really interesting topic as well. And honestly, something i am I'm not familiar with, this figure.
Music Recommendations from Listeners
00:04:47
Speaker
So... I'd be super down to check it out.
00:04:49
Speaker
Yes, thank you for that. um Jack also sent in a letter and they were recommending some songs, some music for us to listen to. And I'm a big music buff, so this is great. i always love recommendations. So what are the songs? I'm proud music because I never know what's cool or what's interesting and I don't know where to start. So please help me.
00:05:05
Speaker
Help me. Yes, so they recommend... I've the same three albums from 2006 and I'm still listening to them. Help me out. Wait, 2006, is this like, I'm going to say Simple Plan, 41, who is
00:05:16
Speaker
fallout boy fallout boy there we go there we go there we go i'm still listening to american idiot you know it's a great album but still relevant maybe more relevant than ever and um anyway it's like all my angsty teen stuff that i like still haven't gotten over because and it's but at this point i should because that's and chapel rhone i can't i love chapel ron i'm a huge chapel road fan what can i say so you think there's a do you think there's a a green day to chapel ron pipeline is that dude If Chabalron's second album could be punk rock, I mean, i like she could do whatever she wants. But if if she was sitting down with me and saying, Quirk, what should I do? I'd be like, please sing punk rock. I will i will love you forever. But anyway, um I digress. My music tastes are narrow and I need to expand them.
00:06:05
Speaker
but Oh, this is exciting. Well, then we I should do some music exchange with you because i I have musical ADD and I listen to just about everything under the sun except for country music. Sorry to your country fans out there. but I will say i I do listen to a lot of film soundtracks. um And lately, the the Sinners soundtrack has just been a constant and I cannot get enough of it. So I i'm always listening to soundtracks and film soundtracks, but in terms of like musicians and stuff, I, I sometimes, Oh, and I love, I love, um I love jazz and I love, um i love like jazz and blues. So I like, but those feel very like classic and like iconic as opposed to new. What's cool. What artists are hip. I just, I don't know.
00:06:44
Speaker
ah Well, then here's two artists for you that you might not know because Jack recommends Josh Kanova's The Wish and also Laura Gibson's I Don't Want Your Voice to Move Me.
00:07:00
Speaker
Okay. Very interesting. And then also, they recommend the soundtrack to the movie Smile 2, which is fantastic movie. That great soundtrack. That's a banger movie. That movie freaked me out. It was so good. Did you- It went way harder than I thought it would. So hard. I was like, oh my God. And was it- I don't know. remember- I feel like it was more intense than the first one.
Praise for 'Andor' and Its Impact
00:07:20
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Yes.
00:07:22
Speaker
yes it is gnarly. But also what I appreciate. And again, the, the dancer in me is always going to call this stuff out the way they use choreography in such a menacing way throughout that.
00:07:32
Speaker
um That movie is so good. So good. and And yeah, the soundtrack is, is fantastic. So also recommend. All right. Last thing. And, uh, and ah And Suicence, hope I'm saying that correctly. I hope I'm saying that correctly. ah They and Kurt, you'll probably be able to speak a lot about this, but they were personally connecting with Andor.
00:07:53
Speaker
And um I think, yeah. if ah Have you watched Andor, James? I've only watched a little bit of it. Yeah, totally fine. For my money, it is, i know there's been a lot of you know, a lot of the newer Star Wars stuff is hit or miss with various people.
00:08:10
Speaker
It all was worth it for Andor. Like, genuinely, i I believe and I feel in my bones that Andor is like one of the single greatest works of episodic fiction I've ever seen.
00:08:22
Speaker
I cannot believe how relevant it is in this very moment right now. Although there's a great interview recently with Tony Gilroy where he was basically like, we didn't do anything revolutionary. We just took the fascist textbook and we just showed you what what people do.
00:08:39
Speaker
and And it's like, wow, that's this, but it is so artful and interesting and beautiful and powerful, but it's also star Wars and it's cool and it's awesome. And I, I think it is the show of our time. it I just want to scream from the rooftops that everybody should go check it out. If you, if,
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah. If you love Star Wars, I think there's something for you. If you're like, i'm not a Star Wars person. I actually think it even more is made for you. um And to me, it's not just escapist. It like is cool and awesome, but also reminds me of like the power of, know,
00:09:14
Speaker
being engaged with what's happening and, and the weight of what happens when you, when you choose to check out and the app and the, the destruction of apathy, it's just, man, I love the show so much and shout out to, uh, that entire creative team. I just think it's extraordinary.
00:09:30
Speaker
yeah i i do need to catch up on it um it that became one of the it's it's a heavy watch it's not like a let's just put on andor it's like let's look i have a few shows like that uh shogun industry and andor were like three that shows that i do love i just i have to like give myself the emotional weight and time to ah absorb them so uh it is on my list as well it's a great it's actually a great reminder i think that To not just mindlessly consume things because they're all that's relevant. That's popping off. But like there are certain things that you want to be in a good headspace for so you can really take time to engage with them. And I think that's actually I like i that's a really
Immersive Film Screenings Experience
00:10:08
Speaker
observant way of like, I'm going to get to this, but I want to make sure that I can really engage with it and not just put it on and kind of bat, you know, second screen it. Yeah. So Shogun also, also which is astonishingly, astonishingly incredible show.
00:10:23
Speaker
Yes. um So yeah. and industry. Industry is great too. industry and Industry. Yeah. Now industry stresses me out. So that's another reason why I have to space out my episodes. um But yes. ah So yeah. So thank you to Insouciance. Again, I probably said that incorrectly, so I apologize. It's just C&S Art. ah Thank you so much. And folks, if you have recommendations or anything you're into, you can always email us at so what are you into pod at gmail.com. Let us know if you would like to talk about your thing or if you just want that to be in our inbox and we don't share it with the world. That's totally fine. And let us know where you're emailing from. I think it's always cool to know where in the world folks are tuning in from. So that's that's awesome.
00:11:01
Speaker
Thank you for the rest. Yes. ah Kurt, if you don't mind, i want to talk about what I'm into first. All right. Let me ask James, what are you into? Yeah. Hold on. Oh, oh James. So what are you into? There we go. Oh, k I'm so glad you asked that question. So ah didn't know you're gonna as that a couple of weeks ago, my boyfriend and I, on Valentine's Day, we decided to treat ourselves to the Willy Wonka at the Cosm experience. For those who don't know. Not the Timothee Chalamet one.
00:11:33
Speaker
Never. No. not Hashtag not my Wonka. ah No. No, no, no, no, no. we In fact, mad. You don't want be surrounded on 360 degrees
00:11:48
Speaker
The thought of that makes me want to never taste chocolate again. All right. Anyway, anyway. So um ah what I want to talk about, ah because first of all, Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory Chocolate Factory, specifically the Gene Wilder version, is one of my favorite movies ever made. too.
00:12:08
Speaker
too. Just for reasons I'm going to get to into in a second. um But what I love about the Cosm, for those who don't know what that is, imagine we've all seen the videos of the Las Vegas sphere, how immersive and and and massive that is. Cosm is ah is a smaller condensed version of that. um But they're very intentional with the way that when you enter the building, you are engrossed in whatever thing they're playing right then. So they do host a lot of sporting events. um i know they I think they're about to host WrestleMania over there in a couple couple weeks. um
00:12:42
Speaker
But they've been now branching out into movies. Kurt, you went to go see The Matrix there. I did. Yeah. Maybe back in September, uh, they do the matrix like every weekend or something. Like they, they keep it playing on loop and yeah, we literally walked in the venue and everything had, you know, green string lights going. Yeah. Yeah. It's like from the second you walked in, it was, it was very much a vibe.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah. And that's- I have thoughts that I want to share on that after we talk about Wonka too, but yeah. Well, it was a similar thing because we walk in and immediately they, so we're talking like themed drinks, themed food, the LED screens are all around ah in in the interior of the building before you get to the actual screen. So you are walking into a themed experience and I appreciate that so much. There's something about immersive experiences that really enhance whatever it is you're watching. And i and I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff. I love theme branding. I love just like synergy. um The more creative you can get with making sure that people are ah are are diving into whatever it is
00:13:48
Speaker
the better, I think. um And so from, yeah, from the moment we got up that escalator and you just see this giant screen of, ah they kind of make their own little factory of what Wonka's factory would have looked like. But, you know, it's computer generated and I hope it isn't AI, but, you know, but that's ah another story for another time ah but it immediately made me feel like a kid again like i got excited it was really fun to just go into this event and see all the colors and then the movie starts uh
00:14:21
Speaker
And i I was crying, you know, like it' it's because again, it's it's one of my favorite movies, but there were so many moments that they chose to enhance what you saw in the movie because during the Cheer Up Charlie song, they had basically the whole town created around. So there' ah the the way they do it is they put this the movie in like a screen in the center and then they make images around that. And in those images, like I said, for the Cheer Up Charlie song, they had made the town and it was night sky and they had all these beautiful stars out. And then the stars would spell out the lyrics while the mom is singing. And I just, oh my gosh, how beautiful this is. And you stayed during this song?
00:15:03
Speaker
Stayed? Famously, people hate this song, Cheer Up Charlie. I think it's an emotional centerpiece of the movie and the entire emotional crux of the movie hinges on that song. But I've talked to people who are like, oh, I always skip that song. Oh, I always get up and go to the bathroom and get a drink. And I'm like, that's the emotional core of the movie. Excuse me?
00:15:24
Speaker
I'm so glad to hear you stayed for the Cheer Up Charlie. Just be glad you're you. It's important. It's an important moment. No, no, no. You're telling me that there are people in this world who hate empathy and care for their children and parents that sacrifice everything to make sure that they can achieve some sort of dream. Those people exist and they hate Cheer Up Charlie?
00:15:46
Speaker
Every time as a kid, whenever I would be doing laundry, because I would always help my mom with laundry, I would always think of that song, you know, because she's like stirring the laundry things. And I always think, gee and even now when I do laundry, I'm like...
00:15:57
Speaker
yeah i But it's, it's like, yes, it's a slower moment, but it's such a pivotal moment because you understand like how he's been raised and how, what what has been imbued into Charlie. And that's so important for where his arc goes. Anyways, I'm so glad to hear that you stayed. And at the moment was heightened.
00:16:16
Speaker
in the Cosm experience. Okay. If you're one of those people who doesn't like that song, I hope you meet a similar fate to Augustus Gloop and just get, who because it's up the tube. My blood pressure is ah is rising. I calm it down. But ah but anyway, i i could go on and on about what they do with this movie, but just something there's something so great about intentional art making. And they did that because there are even parts where they, depending on what was happening within the ah the actual movie, they would move the screen a little bit. So the the center box of the film is now moved to this side and then it moves to the other if you're going down the top. Like, you know, they just do so many fun things. um
00:16:56
Speaker
i I cried several times. Again, I love this movie. It's so great. But because of just what they did to enhance the moviegoing experience. And i think there's something...
00:17:06
Speaker
great about that, that I wish we could apply. um i think you can only get that in a situation like this or in live theater. you know Obviously, you can have live performers and you can do a little bit more. You can get away with it. um But I found that um I don't need every movie in the near future to that comes out to adopt this style of of
Immersive Multimedia in Art and Film
00:17:28
Speaker
entertainment.
00:17:28
Speaker
But I think we need to have more of this. Because it gives people, a ah if you're going to pay all this money to go to these things, if only you know movie ticket prices are getting more and more expensive, let's do something to make it a little bit more exciting and fun and inspiring. Because I left that feeling like, oh my God, I want to make something like that one day.
00:17:50
Speaker
i um I totally agree. It was interesting when I went and saw the Matrix, also one of my favorite movies of all time. i Honestly, Willy Wonka as a kid and The Matrix as a teen, maybe two of the most formative movies for me of like, I want to do this and make things in my life. And you know Willy Wonka is so much about creativity and The Matrix is so much about freeing yourself from ah you know societal expectations. Love those movies. but So Kurt, what you're saying is you followed the Willy Wonka to Matrix pipeline as well. ah Yes, very much. Yeah, yeah. Very much. Good, good, good. ah
00:18:26
Speaker
But i was my takeaway from the Cosm was I was on this kick where I had just been in New York, maybe like a month or two before that, and I had just seen... three shows. I saw, uh, Darren, Chris's show, uh, maybe happy ending. I'd saw sunset Boulevard and I'd seen Sarah Snook and picture of Dorian Gray and all three of those shows in very different ways.
00:18:51
Speaker
Use, I would say immersive video elements. Um, sunset Boulevard does a lot of, ah did a lot of the, scene honestly, kind of strange, actually, a lot of the scenes take place backstage and they're projected onto the screen. Part of me is like, okay, I would like to watch them on stage. Anyway, whatever. i Great show, beautiful show, but yeah. um picture of drawing gray, Sarah Snook, uh, astonishing, astonishing. It's the most, and one of the most incredible plays I've like in terms of a play, it's the most incredible thing I've ever seen watching her, but they had five camera setup at all times that moved around her. And so, and they, and she never, there was a few moments where she's off stage, but most of the time she's on stage, but projected in many different ways and then they would bring in these other video elements and components. And it took this sort of black stage, this this blank space, and it made it so immersive and was really cool. And then Darren's show, maybe Happy Ending, has some incredibly immersive video projection that happens. Like part of it's almost like, ah almost feels like a hologram, almost like R2-D2 kind of projecting an image and just really beautiful.
00:20:04
Speaker
but unlike um sarah snook's production maybe happening uses it to like this kind of almost tactile there's there's physical things and then there's also projection anyway so it's on this kick of like wow this this multimedia mix of of theater and film and immersiveness and projection and when i went and saw matrix of the cosm I had the exact same epiphany as you as I was like, man, I would love to see this.
00:20:33
Speaker
I would love to see this more, whether it's in film or theater. I would love to see ways where it doesn't just feel like, Well, okay. I have two thoughts. When it works, I thought it was astonishing.
00:20:46
Speaker
Now, I don't know what your experience from top to bottom with Willy Wonka was. When I saw The Matrix, half the time I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen. As an example, there's a moment where Neo and Morpheus go into this kind of white void and they they kind of teleport in and the entire screen...
00:21:05
Speaker
all around us went completely white. And it was like, I am in this room with them. I mean, it was just... Such an, ah oh, and then like when the Matrix code starts, you know, it's coming all around you. There was some just incredible like, oh, I am in this movie kind of kind of feeling.
00:21:25
Speaker
And then sometimes when it would cut to like the spaceship, there was this, as you mentioned, like kind of almost weird kind of CG extra. Yeah. and the weird part of that was,
00:21:39
Speaker
the The CG stuff on the sides were this incredibly crisp, I don't know, 4K, 6K, 8K, some massive margin amount of K. But the movie itself was wasn't. So the the CG on the sides was way sharper than the movie.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yeah. i don't and I mean, so it's like, i but in but in my head, I was like, there's so much potential here. Mm-hmm. I don't know. i don't know the technology that goes into how you integrate that. There were some incredible integrations. There was some stuff that felt a little, almost like you're on a ride at universal kind of theme park gimmicky. So it's like when it worked, it was awesome. When it didn't work, it felt a little like, ah, that's kind of good
Disinterest in Awards Season and Its Politics
00:22:21
Speaker
job. You tried. Yeah.
00:22:23
Speaker
But, I will say, did you guys get there early for the like the initial like preview before that your movie started? when they cut There's like a trailer they show before and it like cut to like essentially a football stadium and you're in the and i was like,
00:22:40
Speaker
I literally was like, am I am i inside a football stadium? i mean it's It's uncanny. It is a little off-putting at first. That was wild. Yeah. yeah And what I like about it is that you achieve that without having to put something on your face. Because, you know, I've tried i've tried VR stuff. I even had this these glasses for for a hot second called the X-Real One Pros that were sort of like glasses that you put on that projected this this incredible IMAX sort of size screen on your face and it's cool, but I just don't want to wear something on my face. I just, it just gets super old. And at the Cosm, you really have this kind of freedom of like, you can look anywhere you want. And so there's something about it. That's like amazing. I just, I don't know. I'm curious how it, what they do to evolve that, but I agree with you.
00:23:29
Speaker
If you want to make like movies not just like if you want to make movies, events, and make them things that go, why do I want to go? Why don't why don't I just watch them on Netflix at home? I think it's cool that there's people out there that are thinking, how can we innovate? How can we make these experiences something to go out to the theater to experience and not just a bigger screen,
00:23:51
Speaker
with an audience that's talking and not paying attention. Yeah. And I, I, I'm assuming they did this with matrix too, but they credit all of the visual artists yeah um after the movie. It's so like, they'll, they'll be the regular movie credits, but then they will also credit everyone that worked with Cosm and whatever production company actually made the graphics. um So they, they do care about whoever, ah whomever is working on these things. And I, I, I, I hope there's, yeah, i hope there's a future in that. I w I want more opportunities to see something like this. Cause I do think, like I said, it, make it an event, make it something that people want to go to. Um, especially if we're just careening towards this, um, and I don't want to say, I don't want to do, uh, the, the movie going experience, but it does feel like people are feeling more inclined to sit at home and watch rather than going out.
00:24:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it's like, it can you innovate the movie experience? can you make it Can you make it something that you go, I really don't want to miss that. And I actually think it's really interesting with Cosm that they're doing it with these classics. um Because, you know, I've seen The Matrix a bunch of times. I've seen Willy Wonka, but I go, i would love to see Willy Wonka in that. I would go totally go revisit that. um So, yeah, and I'm with you. the threat I think the challenge is the threshold of really taking the audience to another level of ah of emotional connection.
00:25:11
Speaker
And then there's like a very fine line where it can quickly become a gimmick and it can become, like I said, almost like a a universal theme park ride where you're like, yeah you know, the idea is like, wow, isn't that cool? You don't really feel anything. You know, it's like, oh, great job. Thanks for helping us do the thing. Be sure to exit the road safely, you know? yeah That's cool. That's ah that's a valid that's a valid fun experience.
00:25:35
Speaker
But it doesn't go as deep and as rich as like I would love I'm going to watch a movie. So yeah, but there's something there. There's something really compelling there. um So I hope it i hope these these kinds of things find more of an audience. Was it was your audience full? Was it like... I believe there yeah there it was also because it was Valentine's Day. I think people just were using that as a a date night experience. So yeah, we were, we were pretty packed and you know, it wasn't just adults. There were kids there too. um i I think it was just, yeah, it was just a really good, Oh, I want to give you one little anecdote about it though. Not about the movie, but about the fact that, um so we ordered like four different big entrees and our waitress was like,
00:26:21
Speaker
you guys are going to eat all that? Like it, she, it, and it almost seemed like a challenge because the, um, the, the, the runner brought the food out and we devoured that plate. And I wanted to see that woman again. I was like, where is she? I need her to see that we destroyed this food. Destroyed this. And we destroyed this. So, um, I'm, that was a, I'm proud of the two of us for getting through that.
Redefining Success Beyond Awards
00:26:42
Speaker
Um, love that all right. Well, Kurt, uh, I got to ask you a question. Yeah. why what's What's your question? So what are you into? Here's the thing. Today, my answer is, what am I not into? Oh, already. We're taking a left And I'm confused.
00:27:01
Speaker
Okay. Something that I used to be into, and this year, around this time, it's happening, but I'm not into it. And I will say ah in full transparency, the last week and a half or so has been incredibly busy. There's just been a lot of like worky stuff. So I haven't had time to go watch a lot of things the way that I'd like to. I finished Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Loved it.
00:27:23
Speaker
Wonder Man. Loved it. I talked about it last time. Go watch it. It's great. But the thing that I wanted to chat about today that I used to be so passionate about And every year I find myself disconnecting more and more and more. And that is award season around everything.
00:27:43
Speaker
Emmys, Oscars, um but did the Golden Globes. it Actor awards. Grammys. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's there's all these things. Yeah.
00:27:54
Speaker
And i've I've been trying to unpack like what, why I'm... Because I've seen all these films, I've seen all these shows. i And in fact, a lot of the things that are winning or have won are things that I'm huge fans of. You know, like the pit, the pit swept ah pretty much everything.
00:28:10
Speaker
And I love that show. i watch it every week. And so, you know, but I found myself in years past, I would literally carve out in advance. I'd go, what okay what day are the Golden Globes? Okay, great. I can't do anything that night. What day are the Sag Awards? What day are the whatever? Mm-hmm.
00:28:25
Speaker
And this year, literally, i was driving back from, it was Kim's birthday. we were we went and We went out of town and were driving back and got home at like 6 p.m. And I get on Twitter, X, and it was like, ah, the SAG Awards. And I was like, was that tonight?
00:28:42
Speaker
I was like, do you want to want watch the SAC Awards or do you want to just like, and was like, no, I'm good. And ah that was so weird. it was so strange. And I couldn't, i and i so anyway, I'm trying to unpack what what I have disconnected from in that regard. At the same time, i think the last year, year and a half of my life, in a strange way, I have actually fallen in love with really connecting with art again in a way that I hadn't so much so that like a year or two ago, I was really worried. I was like, do i not love movies anymore? Do i I felt I, I had, um, I don't know. I had had this weird kind of stint where I was feeling not,
00:29:23
Speaker
it was it felt like more of a chore and I wasn't whatever. And I've been on this journey to really just dive deep and reconnect with things and feel things and think about things that I'm watching and engaging with. Big reason why we started this podcast.
00:29:35
Speaker
Anyway, so with all that said, I have been trying to unpack why the words don't don't excite me. And my best answer is that The cynical answer is like, maybe I thought I was going to be there or something by this. I don't know. Like maybe i was like, I'll be there one day. And the older I get, the more I'm like, it's the same 10 people that it was 20 years ago.
00:30:02
Speaker
It's just the same like group of people. And every, every so often somebody ekes in there that's new, but it kind of feels like, there's a bunch of rich, successful people hanging out. um But on the other hand too, I think the more I actually have, the more I've really in the last like year or two tried to re reevaluate my relationship with art and really go, what does it mean to me?
00:30:28
Speaker
what do What do I, what am I getting out of a thing? Not, did I see all the things, did I engage with all the things that the critics and the consensus said that I should, um I just find like the notion of, of awards to be not as interesting or relevant.
00:30:44
Speaker
If i or somebody I knew was nominated, That would be awesome. Like I remember when Darren was on the the award circuit and winning. Actually, when Darren won the Tony last year, I was like, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. I was like- That's our friend. We know him. Yeah. but But besides that, I go, I really don't, I don't even, i don't even,
00:31:03
Speaker
Prior to to Darren and maybe happy ending, I couldn't even tell you who won the last few Tony. i just Anyway, so I've been trying to ask myself this question. Do you have any thoughts? Well, actually, I'm going to ask you another question. and Yes, please. Interrogate me. So first, do you remember when you started um even tendentially watching an award show?
00:31:25
Speaker
Yes, 2000. And it was the year that Gladiator was nominated. And I had watched Gladiator and it you know blew my mind as ah as a young aspiring, oh, I think I wanted you know this to be so cool to to be in movies or whatever. And I remember watching it and then it was a big upset because a Beautiful Mind won. And Yeah. And I just, and I remember like every year from then on, it was like appointment viewing and nobody, nobody in my family or friends like cared about this stuff. It was just me being like, I got to watch, I got to watch the Emmys at Golden Globes. I got to watch, you know, even um the Grammys, even though like I didn't know a lot of the music, I just felt like I need to learn what the best things are. But it was right around 2000, 2001 ish
00:32:11
Speaker
for the last 25 years of my life. Yeah. Yeah. And, and yeah, so that's, that's the answer to that question. So to answer that question for myself too,
00:32:22
Speaker
I did not, I knew what the Oscars, I knew, i well actually I don't even know if I knew what every award show was, but I knew what the Oscars were. But specifically, it was the year that Holly Berry won. remember- Monsters Ball.
00:32:33
Speaker
a Monsters Ball. And I was asleep, but I heard my mom scream out of joy and I like got up, i was like, what's going on? I ran up and she was just so excited to see a black woman win win Best Actress. yeah um Incredible performance by the way. Yes. Halle Berry, i don't want to say underrated because obviously she's very successful, but still for just an astonishingly incredible actor.
00:32:59
Speaker
i don't think it's enough credit for how good and groundbreaking her her work has been and was anyway. Hold on to that thought, because I'm going to bring that back up. okay But I remember seeing the joy that my mom had from that.
00:33:13
Speaker
And at at I had to have been nine or 10 years old when that happened. But immediately what that put in my mind, was like, oh, this is an important moment. Getting an Oscar is is a vital thing. that's That's a good thing. And so from then on is when I started to pay attention to what movies are getting. Now, did I go see a lot of these movies? No, because like I was still probably too young and my parents weren't necessarily like chasing Oscar winning movies to go see, but I knew that they they were important.
00:33:41
Speaker
And so then I would start to to to tune in more to like, ooh, who won this best ah best supporting actress? Who won this? And so then ah in my mind, as a ah young performer who would would then pursue this professionally, i feel like I felt like I had to be in the know of who's doing this stuff because they're doing the best work out there. They're doing this. um what What the caveat tells us, so...
00:34:07
Speaker
We keep calling it best because that's what these award show call it. they they they They say this is the best this, the best cinematographer, best director. um I'll tell you what's made award shows a little hollow for me is the day I learned that everything's just a little bit political.
00:34:25
Speaker
And it's who it's who Hollywood decides they want to honor. And who has the budget to even roll out a campaign. Like, yeah, like you could be a movie that everyone's like, this is amazing. But if you don't have the time or the resources, the resources really to hold screenings and events and wine and dine potential voters of different academies.
00:34:49
Speaker
hu you it's probably not going to happen. And yeah i didn't I always just thought, oh, this the best ones. Just the best ones rise to the top. And then that's just not true. It's not true at all.
00:35:04
Speaker
and Because here's the thing. Art is subjective, right? And so whether it's the Hollywood Foreign Press, whether it's the Academy, you know whoever's voting on this, they they vote a specific way and they will choose their movie and their actor, ah their director, what have you. But um ah to us as, and I say us, ah common folk, because even, yeah, we're you and I are in the industry, but at the same time, like we're not we're not up there right now. And so to the rest of us, we're seeing the low budget indie film that is crushing it and has some of the best performances you've ever seen, but they don't have the money
00:35:39
Speaker
to ah to to impress upon the powers that be so that they're getting wide releases or they're getting recognition or getting people on press tours. Sometimes they just can't do that. And so you know we might call something a cult classic, ah but it might only be that way because they just didn't have the money to get further than that point. Doesn't mean that they were bad. Doesn't mean that it was worse than anything else. It's just they didn't have the backing that some of these other films had.
00:36:07
Speaker
i I also think too, doing the kinds of create creative projects that you and I have been super lucky to be part of over the years and and in the blood, sweat and tears, you know, that goes into making something.
00:36:21
Speaker
like especially with theater, you know, there's so much good theater that it will never make it to Broadway or even as even as an actor, sometimes it's like, I used to think, you know, ah used to think that's the ultimate goal. Like the ultimate goal as ah as a theater actor, it's like, you got to make it to Broadway.
00:36:42
Speaker
and then And then that means you're the best or what like whatever. like you yeah youre Now you're guaranteed a job or a spot. And it's like, we just know that's that's not true. and And you could, and it's still, you you know, people, the show ends and then they're back to square one or whatever. And so this notion of like,
00:37:01
Speaker
Yeah, this this notion of the best of anything, i think, yeah, starting to understand how much of that is a purchased perception. Even though many of the films that are winning and and many of the shows are winning, I think are actually objectively incredible.
Transformative Power of Immersive Art Experiences
00:37:18
Speaker
Absolutely. have watched... i've watched literally if I can find it, I've watched every award speech that like Ryan Coogler or Delaware Lindo or Michael B. Jordan has given. Cause I love that movie and I love those creators. And so I'm like, you know, on YouTube watching the highlights.
00:37:35
Speaker
But yeah, it's like ah nothing. them winning best picture or not, although it will be awesome can in no capacity diminish the out of body experience I had watching sinners for the first time and being trend. Like, and i was like, I don't, I hope it does. i actually genuinely, I think it'd be awesome if it won best picture, but I will never forget, you know, the, the music scene in centers. I'm like, that will live in my head forever. i think of I will hold it up for the rest of my life and go, wow.
00:38:08
Speaker
that moment. So yeah, it's like maybe seeing how the sausage gets made a little bit, but I guess the the sort of irony of it is like, I, in many ways feel like more passionate and, and, and drawn to art than I have ever ever.
00:38:26
Speaker
and And as that has become more true in the last year or two, i feel like I feel less and less connected to this thing that I used to make such a priority of my life. And I used to sort of ah ah associate my like professional aspirations around it.
00:38:42
Speaker
So I think maybe it's healthy. I think maybe it's healthy. But i just it was just an interesting thought that I had this week of like, I have not engaged with any of this. And I normally do. I'll still watch the Oscars and...
00:38:53
Speaker
you know But I just yeah i don't doesn't i don't i don't guess i don't i don't need anything to win for it to be valuable to me I do wonder, and if any of our listeners have thoughts on this, because I wonder what their perspective is from someone who may not be in the industry, but is interested yeah and it, you know, are or has interest in movies, film, television, you know, ah all that stuff. um If you have thoughts, please let us know. Because, yeah, I think i think for us, I'll agree with you that seeing how the sausage is just made kind of ruins it. I like to go back to the analogy of... um
00:39:26
Speaker
Do you remember the 2004 Tony Awards when Wicked, Avenue Q, Carolina Change? was, um yeah there was a, in my theater, like my little theater friend group, it was, ah it was a trap. I mean, it was a travesty. There was crying, there was weeping. And as the punk like rebel who really loved Avenue Q, I was like, yeah, Avenue Q won. Yeah. But yes, I remember that vividly.
00:39:53
Speaker
And for those who don't know, the long story short is Wicked came out in October before that year's Tony Awards. Everyone just, and their mother assumed that Wicked would get best Tony, or best music book, Tony Awards. Such a smash. Such a hit. Still running.
00:40:08
Speaker
Um, and still running this. Okay. And i was going to say something. I'm not going to say that, but, um, uh, but they, um, Avenue Q was also running at the same time. Again, a beloved musical, very funny. It's, uh, you know, and I ended up playing off Broadway as well. Uh, and it's, it's toured people do it regionally all the time has a long lasting legacy. Um, but when it came time for the Tony awards, uh, But essentially what happened is they um the Broadway League assumed that the moniker of Best Musical would be better suited to go to a show that would need the support in order to boost ticket sales while they were on the road.
00:40:50
Speaker
Therefore, they figured Wicked was going to be fine without it. And that the rumor, I should say, the rumor is that That is the reason Avenue Q got the Tony award for best musical so that they could succeed ah and have a little bit of a longer life.
00:41:08
Speaker
So when you hear stuff like that, the the moniker of best doesn't really mean anything to me anymore. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it it's about, it's about, okay, how can the producers get the most amount of money out of this?
00:41:22
Speaker
Yeah. and yeah that's And that's where the decisions goes. At the same time, I do think what you said about your mom and her reaction is really valid and powerful. And like there is something incredible about seeing something that hasn't happened before breakthrough or or seeing like representation of of of a story or an experience. So it's like, I don't want to i don't want to be like, du the Oscars don't matter and I don't get...
00:41:51
Speaker
It's like not that because I actually think there is, there can be really powerful, like as a kid, I mean, as a kid, what inspired, was watching these shows being like, wow, I want to do this. So I can firsthand say that like those things actually really inspired me. And I think that's actually really true.
00:42:10
Speaker
So I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and just be like, Ooh, who cares? Nobody cares. Actually. No, I actually mean something. And But I will say, I think I always tend to get a lot more joy win when a piece of art or film or show or whatever whatever the medium is, when it is something that you go, that's awesome. Those people, like when like when Moonlight won.
00:42:37
Speaker
Great example. Yeah. I go, that to me is so significant because that is a film that a lot of a lot of like film people maybe saw initially, but it was a very small movie. It's a very pretty small release.
00:42:53
Speaker
And then when it wins Best Picture, it does possibly give people who maybe never would engage with it go, well, you know, it won Best Picture. I mean, I... I guess I'll check it out. And all of a sudden, this beautiful piece of work that is so specific and so artfully crafted that maybe doesn't have that platform, it has that chance to be seen. you know So you go, you know it's like, I do kind of go, if the if if awards are going to do anything, I do love it when they recognize something that...
00:43:25
Speaker
That is something new and different and fresh. And I know people have different ah you know opinions on what should award be. if i if i had if i was If I was king of awards, I think it's like my parameters would be what pushes the medium forward and does something that no one's ever seen before or shows something that we've never seen before. Not not just like, it's like like when Green Book won.
00:43:48
Speaker
It's boy. that one that was he Everyone was really happy about that. It's like that that felt like the most paint by numbers this has to win, right? And it's like the antidote to that is like a Moonlight winning or an Everything Everywhere All at Once winning where you're like, this is what an incredible, what a what a fresh vision. what a you know And you look at like Barry Jenkins and you go,
00:44:14
Speaker
I'm so glad Moonlight won it it. Not that he wouldn't have had a career after, but I bet it has opened up doors to continue to make more interesting. So I don't know. It's like, I do think that there is power in when the small thing does win, it really can massive or even get nominated. it can massively help and impact those artists and give them opportunities.
00:44:37
Speaker
Um, and that, that actually might be way more important than the nominations might be actually more interesting than who wins because it's all, it's just completely subjective. There's no, right. You know what i mean? Um, I want to go back to your point though, about Holly Berry though. Um, so, you know, underrated performer, um, uh, even though she's fantastic and, so and just everything she does, she attacks with such grace. Great. And John Wick. So talented. And John, oh my God. Like she's fantastic in that movie, but she, and she's not the only one that has happened to these people will get these awards. Um, yeah. And all of a sudden it's like the followup doesn't match the weight of the award.
00:45:18
Speaker
Yep. And that's another thing that gets me is that, you know, you watch these award shows and you want to see, oh, where is this person's career going to go after this? And only like a select handful of people, depending on whether it's an Oscar, an Emmy, Golden Globe, what have you, only a select few people are the repeat winners, will go on to have these huge careers. I don't want to specifically name people right now, but because some of them I know, ah but they...
00:45:48
Speaker
they get, they, they have the star turn and then of a sudden I'll, uh, no one can write anything for you. Uh, you're asking prices too high. um You know, it's like ah to be to be considered best for five minutes.
00:46:05
Speaker
And then it feels like for some people, the doors have closed after that. Right. Right. So i I do find that interesting. I don't know. I don't necessarily have like a a main wrap up to this point, but I do find it interesting to watch some of these award shows. And then, you know, you go two or three years later and say, hey, whatever happened to that guy? So that part, after years of paying attention to these award shows and that happening quite often, that has also kind of weighed on me to not view it as so important because half of these people I'm not going to hear from ever again.
00:46:40
Speaker
No, I think that's a great point. And it, you know, and it, I think it actually is a great reminder. And I, you know, obviously we don't, we, on this podcast, we're not trying to get too industry specific, but yeah yeah as an artist, I actually think it's a really great blanket reminder of a lot of times the thing that has been propped up as the ultimate achievement really has very little staying power.
00:47:04
Speaker
And, you know, whether it is like, I know for a lot of actors, like I'll book a Broadway show. you know, or i'll yeah I'll book a series or whatever. And it's like, these are these milestones that are, that are seen as like, if you could do that, you have done it. You're good. And the, the, the real trick is like, no, you, you, you genuinely never stop starting over. Like you always, and that is like the, the, the, the hard part and the beautiful part in ah in ah in a lovely way.
00:47:36
Speaker
it's like, doesn't matter how great you are. you're an amazing in a movie and you win an Oscar, you're only as good in the next movie as like your crew and your director and the editor. Like you're back to square one. You don't, just because you show up, it's like, doesn't mean everything automatically is, it works. Yeah. And it so I think that it's just a great reminder that like every chance you get to collaborate, whether it is on a large scale where it's millions of people are going to see it or it's like you doing a show with your friends in a community theater like it is always a chance to start over and rediscover and to as we talked about last time be curious and like never assume that you've ever achieved or made anything um there's a that's a good reminder i think that's like you said you go oh i when i was a kid i was like oh if like i i won an oscar if i would win a golden globe then i would know i made it and
00:48:27
Speaker
Then we see people do that and then you go, it didn't. Okay. Well, I'm sure it helped them for a minute, but like it didn't actually change or move the needle that much. I think that's actually encouraging because then you can go, i don't need to strive to achieve that. If I ever find myself in that position, that would be cool. Yeah. but I knew somebody years ago who who who was part of a show that won a bunch of awards. And I remember at her house, she literally used she literally used the SAG Award as a paperweight.
00:49:01
Speaker
And it was just so funny. she was like proud of her work, but it was just like funny to be like, You know, it's just like this, yeah this weight on the know of your desk and you're like, well, gust you know, a gust of wind blows through and you're like, here, just grab me the Emmy. Let me put that right there to hold the, hold the mail down.
00:49:17
Speaker
ah You know, but I, but I agree with that because listen, one of the most liberating things I ever did for myself was accepting the fact that being on Broadway wasn't my dream. You know, we talked about this in a podcast we did a few years ago, but yes. Yes. Yeah. I do. Please please share more about this. I'm so passionate about this. Oh, oh yeah. Like, so, you know, I went to University of Michigan, musical theater department, got my BFA. And Michigan is kind of,
00:49:43
Speaker
I would say known as kind of a Broadway factory, you know, it's like, oh, that's where you go to Broadway. they It's literally a conveyor belt of of ah tenors. Anyway, so I graduated from there. And ah the next logical step is you go to New York. And I did it. And I was there for five years in and out, did national tours, cruise ships, did residencies in Vegas. You know, I did i worked i did a show in Carnegie Hall. I never booked a Broadway show proper, never did a show there. and But I remember I kept doing it and doing it, trying to audition for these shows and be out there.
00:50:16
Speaker
And you know when your spirit is trying to tell you hey, you should be turning this way, but you keep, because your your brain is telling you, oh, no, no, but you're supposed to be over here. And so like it's almost like you keep running into the same wall and you're not entirely sure why. Everybody up to that point has said, that's where you should be headed. That's the goal. And you're like, okay, everyone told me this is the direction. Why do I feel like I'm i'm headed in the wrong direction? Yes. And and finally, one day,
00:50:45
Speaker
um Actually, one of the main catalysts for me leaving New York was the giant blizzard that happened exactly 10 years ago 2016. And I said, I will never do this again. um And so later that, yeah, I'm good. I have to go. um But then later that summer, i ended up taking a contract in Hong Kong and and I used that as the time. i was like great, I'm going to save this money. I'm going to move to l LA because I can still be an actor even if I'm not in New York.
00:51:11
Speaker
And I had to give myself permission to say that. And it's the same thing with these awards. It's like, you're still an actor. You're still a performer. You're still a creator. You're a storyteller. Whatever moniker you want to give yourself, you can still do that without all the accolades.
00:51:26
Speaker
And you are because you do, you know, you you, you are not, you are not those things because you achieve a certain thing on a resume or whatever you are because you do it. You know, it's like you're a writer because you write, you know, you're, you're, you're a filmmaker because you, you pick up a camera and you, you film things like there's a real, there's a real empowerment to that, that I've struggled for years to, i think I've started to be able to, to accept that as true.
00:51:55
Speaker
of like, I am, I am this because I do it, not, be not, I will be once I achieve X, Y, or Z. And, uh, you know, and that's, and that's hard, but it's like, I guess that's like a message I'm so passionate about putting out there.
00:52:10
Speaker
What, you know, if anybody has any penchant for creativity or, or artistry, it can be so easy to be like, Oh, well, you know, I'm not really that, but like, you know, maybe one day. And I just want to be like, no, you are that if you do that, if you do it now. And if the joy you get is because you get together with friends and you put on a little play in a garage, you do theater, you know, it's like you are, yeah it's like, it doesn't, yeah. Diminishing and, and removing those, um,
00:52:36
Speaker
What's the word I'm looking for? gate The gatekeepers who are like, well, it's not real unless you are in New York City on a stage that has x amount of seats in it and has been deemed a... but It's like, that's so... it's the and It's the antithesis of what art is. Yeah. But you know what art is for me though, and I'm going to bring it full circle, is that, so that feeling I had watching Willy Wonka, a movie I've seen countless times, but seeing in this capacity with the animation created around it and the music swelling and all that stuff, you know the reason I want to be a performer is because I want to do something that helps someone else feel that same way.
00:53:16
Speaker
That's why i still do it. you know So it's almost like I'm chasing the high of connection. You know, i want to do work that connects to people. I want people to be happy and laugh and cry and, you know, based on a performance that I'm a part of. I still live for that. And that's how I know i still want to do this.
00:53:37
Speaker
i I had a conversation with Kim this week that we were talking about the notion of like, you know, when you're a kid, you study, you what is your dream? what do you want to be? and I think it's so easy to, so funny. We literally talked about this yesterday.
00:53:52
Speaker
We tend to put dreams in terms of achievements, in terms of, I will achieve a certain thing and then I will obtain a certain title. And therefore I will be the, that I will have achieved a dream. And we were talking about how,
00:54:06
Speaker
A, that's so rooted in sort of systemic, like Western capitalistic ideas of climbing your way at the ladder and whatever.
00:54:16
Speaker
But that actually like a dream, that that that word in and of itself, taking the power back to be like a dream is not a thing you achieve. It is just... it is when you are at your most you, when you are like at the most effortless and not that there's not effort involved, but when you feel like I am operating in everything is making sense. And I was, I was telling Kim, like when I am on, when I'm on stage and I think film to film is a little more ah tedious and and and meticulous, but between action and cut, I feel the same way when I'm on stage, I
00:54:53
Speaker
I don't overthink anything and I overthink everything, every moment, every single moment, except when I'm on stage or I'm performing and I feel this complete confidence. And I'm not saying I'm awesome. I'm so good, but it's just, it's like, i just, I'm so connected to what we're doing. And then on the flip side of that, getting to, getting to share it with an audience and giving and letting it go and letting it become theirs. That, like you said, that, that,
00:55:21
Speaker
That's what my favorite artists have given to me when I'm in a theater and I'm watching something and it speaks to me and I'm like, oh my God. Like, you know, it was me with wonder man watching wonder man just being like, I feel so affirmed and seen and oh my, it just, you know, it man, that's it. It's like exactly like that is the goal.
00:55:41
Speaker
And I think we're in as much horrible as things seem. Yeah. Yeah. Across the board ah in a lot of ways, but especially with art and you know AI and the consolidation of everything or whatever, whatever. There is this exciting thing, I think, that we are at this precipice where we can create experiences and art and moments that reach people outside of this system. Outside of it has to go to New York and be on Broadway or it has to be nominated for an award. It's like we can create things that can go right to the person. And even if one person feels something, that it's like, that was it. that was why we That was the whole thing. That was it. And that's that and then i i'm I'm right with you. It's like, that's why I keep doing it. it's like it's
00:56:28
Speaker
I think maybe that's the epiphany of like not caring about awards as much as as much is like, I've gotten a chance to make things that have reached an audience and have moved them. And I've been moved by that.
00:56:40
Speaker
And I'm like, that's the good stuff. And if someone wants to give you a statue, like that's cool. um But, but that's the, that's what we're chasing here. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:51
Speaker
I love that. I'm so glad. Chasing the dragon. Chasing that, chasing that dragon. I'm so glad you brought that up. No, that was, that's, that's lovely. And I'm glad. ah Do you feel like you've kind of answered your question as to why you've.
00:57:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's really actually a positive thing, which is I think I'm actually more interested in art than I was a few years ago. And it's meaning more to me and it's speaking to me and it's given me clarity and and passion towards creating more of it and experiencing more of it in new ways.
00:57:23
Speaker
that Like the notion of... did I see all the movies that got nominated is like, Oh, whatever. i saw this cool. Let me tell you about this weird thing I found on canopy the other night and it blew my mind and I had to go for a walk out. You know, i those things are the, the value of, of one-to-one connection and what something means to me is means much more than I think it used to. So think that's a good thing.
00:57:46
Speaker
that's ah That's a good thing. That's great, man. I love this. Um, we're getting closer now here. So, uh, anything else you wanted to share before we wrap things up? Oh man. Is there anything else I've just had It's been, i don't know if you feel this way, but this season has been one of, uh, trying to make plans for the rest of the year when I don't know what the rest of the year looks like. Yeah.
00:58:11
Speaker
So I'm just running around being like, is this happening? Is this happening? I don't know if this is happening. Maybe this is happening. Um, so yeah I would say, we went we We went on a lovely trip this last weekend. We went to Carmel by the sea um for it was Kim's birthday.
00:58:28
Speaker
ah and ah It was just so lovely to genuinely not think about what I have to accomplish in the next 24 to 48 hours. And I cannot recommend enough how essential it is to like find those moments when and how and and wherever you can to just, to just let yourself be and like, look up at, this sounds like so cliche, but I mean, ja we like sat on a rock and we watched the sunset and we're looking at the stars and it was just like, you know what?
00:59:05
Speaker
everything's fine. yeah Like everything's like it it's so silly, but there is something so powerful about getting outside of our little bubbles and reconnecting with the stillness of nature. Okay. Here's the thing i actually wanted to share. This gets me to this.
00:59:20
Speaker
um Lately I've been trying to, this is so hard for me because I input 24 seven. I love the sound of humans and voices and I'm just always inputting.
00:59:31
Speaker
Um, we did this, we did this on our trip, but also I've just been doing it once or twice a week is going on like a hike where I don't take my AirPods and I just like let myself listen to my own footsteps. And at first, every time I do it, I'm always like, I need to listen to a podcast. Um,
00:59:49
Speaker
um And then by the end, i find my heart rate has come down. my mental state is always super clear and focused. i i just I just feel so much more at peace. So even though is a podcast about consuming media and thinking about things...
01:00:07
Speaker
Sometimes don't. yes Don't do that sometimes. don't Don't do it. No, I love that. um Can share something similarly though? Please. It's more of a concept, an idea to share with everyone. um I am currently working on um letting go of some narratives that I've created for myself over 36 years of living. I've told myself a lot of times that I can't do something, whether it's because someone else told me i couldn't do it, or I just convinced myself that I physically or mentally was not able or capable of doing it. um But ah Paul and I were out of town last week. We were in Costa Rica. And for the first time in my life, I surfed.
01:00:51
Speaker
Now, that's not something that's ever been presented to me. No one has ever offered to teach me or anything like that. But ah we just happened to be there with some friends that one of them knew and we had to spare time. He's like hey, do you want to learn? And I immediately, just because I'm in this this period of my life where I'm like, all right, let's just try it. i was like, yeah, yeah, let's figure it out. And what was so cool is that, um did I fail like 10 times? Absolutely. Oh, I bit it like ah multiple times. I drank so much salt water to that day.
01:01:21
Speaker
But when I finally got it, i was so proud of myself. And I forget that the sense of accomplishment ah It does not have to be an outward thing. It can be inward. it can be you can tell you can You can just do something for yourself and and feel proud of your accomplishment. um So ah you know i we're giving ourselves this little tagline of stay curious. And I think this is one of those those moments where it's like, i'mm I'm curious. Let me let me try this.
01:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, maybe I'm not too old to learn how to surf. And yeah, so you know we'll we'll see if I'll keep doing it because I don't live near the water. I'm not rich. But when I am rich, going to have a whole bunch of longboards. I'm going right on that water because I'm my a house right on the beach and everyone's invited.
01:02:05
Speaker
I love it. I love the concept of surfing. I want, I've never tried it either. So maybe, maybe, maybe one of these weekends when it gets warmer, maybe we can go, i don't know. I'd love it. I would love to try, but I love the, I love the concept of like, yeah, man, I wake up at six. I hit the waves, come back. i guess I eat a steak or what? I don't know. I see like these guys like put like, you know, they live, they like live in like, you know, a tropical place and they're like, Hey, watermelon. And I go surfing and it's like five zero in the morning. And then I drink coffee and I'm like, wow.
01:02:35
Speaker
That sounds awesome. I know. You also sound like you're very rich. I was going to you come from money and you have to spend time to do this. But do you so you think it's something you would you would revisit?
01:02:46
Speaker
I absolutely would. You know, like, so that's, and that could be as easy as, you know, go down to the beach and just like rent one for, or even take, i should probably take lessons. So maybe I'll take some more lessons from so somebody.
01:02:57
Speaker
um But it'd be nice to just like have another thing that I can do that just fulfills the spirit a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's as artists too, it's so much of, it's so, i always say this teaching for years. I'm like,
01:03:15
Speaker
Yes, it's great to be in the know about what... Okay, actually, to tie this to the awards thing, it's so good to be in the know about what's happening in your field or whatever. But if you are an artist, what are you doing? if If you're not living in the real world, if all your experiences are rooted in your little bubble of like...
01:03:32
Speaker
my auditions or whatever you go. What do you, what do you have to bring to your work? And that's why reconnecting with people, with nature, we were in Hawaii a few years ago and those, you know i wasn't surfing on the waves, but the waves, I, I'd never experienced the, I, I've only seen waves in like Santa Monica and they're pretty like small seeing those waves as they crashed over me. It was like a spiritual experience of like,
01:03:58
Speaker
I am so small. This is like, but it is so powerful as if you are interested in creating art, it is so powerful to experience things outside of the industry of it. I think it's, i think it's vital actually. Yes. um And it sounds like we both kind of have been on that wavelength a little bit of yeah doing stuff that's strange and different and weird and a little uncomfortable at first, but on the other side of it, you're like, wait a minute, I'm in the world. I'm, I'm touching it. I'm feeling it. and I'm tasting, I'm drinking the salt water.
01:04:26
Speaker
Yeah. So I love that. Amazing. ah Well, folks, yeah, we're going to wrap things up here. As always, if you have any questions, comments, if you have some recommendations for us, you can reach out, email us at so what are you into pod at gmail.com. And we may read your letters on the show if you would like us to also follow us on Instagram on TikTok at the same. So what are you into pod? And then we're on. Did I miss one?
01:04:54
Speaker
YouTube. We're on YouTube and we're also on Spotify. Oh yeah. Spotify. Listen, listen, I know there's, there's a lot going on there, but it is a convenient platform and they have video podcasts now. So if you're, if you want to watch this podcast on Spotify, you can literally just watch it on Spotify. Also on YouTube. It's the same thing, but it's available to you in both places.
01:05:17
Speaker
um All right. So ah on behalf of Kurt, I'm James. And where I'm going to end this episode by saying, stay curious. Stay curious. Bye, everybody.