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🧘♀️ "Sustainability as an integral part of business" - Anoushka Grover from Deliciously Ella on marketing for impact driven companies
99 Plays1 year ago
Anoushka Grover, is the Head of Marketing at Deliciously Ella. As a purpose driven marketeer, she’s worked at Too Good To Go fighting food waste and at DAME working to reduce the environmental and social impact of period products. She’s also a TEDx Speaker and was nominated as one of the Future50 best emerging marketers in 2021.
So, are you curious to make your companies marketing ready for the future? Then I have the some simple and exciting options for you:
First, this is exactly what I do for my clients - I help them build their future strategies with workshops and sparring sessions.
I also have a very simple entry offer for founders and aspiring marketing experts: The Simple & Sustainable Marketing Academy, with a ridiculously cheap entry ticket price, because I love sharing what I have learned.
And if you enjoy reading: Check out my newsletter where I write about marketing, strategies and sustainability available every two weeks in the MarketingFutures newsletter.
About Florian Schleicher: I'm a marketing strategist - over the last 15 years I've led and helped shape marketing at McDonald's, Greenpeace and Too Good To Go. Now I help forward-thinking companies take their marketing to the next level.
With FutureS, the Impact Marketing Studio, I help brands achieve their goals and sustainable growth. All without the usual hustle.
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Transcript
Introduction to Future Strategies Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
For me, I want to be making the world a better place through the work I'm doing. So the idea of going to work and drilling up oil every day and displacing communities and killing the planet doesn't sound like a fulfilling career. I think doing something where you can see you're having a tangible difference and really helping people is a really nice thing to do.
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to Future Strategies. I'm your host, Florian Scheicher. You want your marketing to achieve goals and sustainable growth? You have come to the right place. In this podcast, I talk with marketing experts and share my own know-how on how to bring your marketing to the next level, with a lot of inspiration and learnings, all without the usual hustle.
Meet Anushka Grover
00:00:46
Speaker
So let's jump right into it.
00:00:49
Speaker
Today, my guest is Anushka Grover, who is the head of marketing at Deliciously Ella. As a purpose-driven marketeer, she's worked at Too Good to Go, Fighting Food Waste, and at Dame, working to reduce the environmental and social impact of period products. She's also a TEDx speaker and was nominated as one of the future 50 best emerging marketeers in 2021. Welcome to Future Strategies, Anushka.
Deliciously Ella's Origins and Expansions
00:01:17
Speaker
Thank you. So let's start with the basics. What is Deliciously Ella? So Deliciously Ella is we're on the one track to be the world's largest plant-based food platform. And so the company started with Ella, Ella Mills, our founder, who was facing kind of health struggles when she was at uni and was on lots of medication and decided that she was going to try and see if she could improve her health by changing her diet.
00:01:45
Speaker
And so to do that, she went to a largely plant-based whole food diet and found that it really revolutionized her health. And she could come off with all the medication. She had really kind of healed herself from what she ate. And so it started with her blog, Deliciously Ella, where she was kind of sharing the recipes that she was creating. And that has now developed into a food products business. And we have a DTC membership, which is
00:02:10
Speaker
an app and website membership, which has recipes, movement, mindfulness, other wellness content, as well as all of our products which are available for DTC shipping. So the business has been going for just over kind of 10, 11 years, I think. And I also have a restaurant in central London called Plants. Interesting. Yeah. And a podcast. So it's kind of turned into a media business as well as a food products and content business now.
Anushka's Role and Impact-Driven Motivation
00:02:38
Speaker
Interesting. And you started as their head of marketing in May, 2023. Yeah. What is your role there? What do you do as head of marketing? So in my few months I've been here, it's been a very varied journey. So I joined as head of marketing. I kind of run the marketing team as a starter. So that's the kind of content and communications.
00:03:03
Speaker
But I also have the customer care team within my team. So that's managing all of the different inboxes and communication channels coming into the business and also an element of product management. So my team's in charge of the app and the maintenance and development of the app as well as the website and all the e-comm and DTC. So it's quite a varied head of marketing role, which is really exciting. But yeah, there's a lot of different moving parts to think about every day. Yeah. I can imagine.
00:03:33
Speaker
And you, as I mentioned in the intro, have a track record for working in impact-driven organizations, and you now help spread the word for a better life through plant-based products. What is it about sustainability and impact that fascinates you so much that you keep working in this industry?
00:03:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think that I feel like if you're going to work every day, then you really need to care about what it is that you're doing. And I feel like you really, I mean, for me, I want to be making the world a better place through the work I'm doing. So the idea of going to work and drilling up oil every day and displacing communities and killing the planet doesn't sound like a fulfilling career.
Innovations in Sustainable Products
00:04:14
Speaker
I think doing something where you can see you're having a tangible difference and really helping people
00:04:20
Speaker
is a really nice thing to do and i guess too good to go is my first real impact role and i just found it so exciting everyday kind of looking at the numbers and how much do two that we were preventing and getting all the awesome feedback from customers who are really kind of.
00:04:35
Speaker
excited about how they were now helping the planet from eating delicious food. I just thought that's such a great feeling. And so I'd love to stay in the industry. And then when I found Dame, I kind of hadn't even realized that plastic pollution was such a big problem with period products. So when I thought about it, you know, a lot of people use plastic applicators, which is absolutely fine. But if you think about every single time you use a tampon, that applicator goes in the bin and it's been used for like five seconds.
00:05:05
Speaker
If you think about that, like on the scale of all the women in the kind of Western world who use applicators, the amount of plastic pollution is so crazy. And I found that with Dame, they'd made the world's first reusable tampon applicator. And so I was like, that's such a smart idea because you can give one person this one applicator that lasts for 10 years and suddenly they've eradicated.
00:05:26
Speaker
a hell of a lot of plastic waste and alongside that I just found it really shocking that the period industry as a whole was so kind of toxic to women so not only the language that was being used around kind of hiding your products and periods kind of being something dirty that you were
00:05:43
Speaker
trying to hide and that you needed to kind of use different washes to keep yourself clean. None of that's true. It's all just like marketing to sell these products, which in turn are all filled with bleach and chemicals. And the more that I was working and the more passionate I was about how when people were moving to organic products and kind of stopping inserting begins with T and ends in X ponds in their vaginas, they were improving the symptoms of their periods as well. So a lot of them would have
00:06:13
Speaker
less irritation, less cramping, less symptoms to do with their period. And I just find the whole thing, if you can help people through the work you're doing, I think that's a really nice thing to be able to do.
00:06:25
Speaker
Yeah. I really like what you're saying in things you go to work for. And at the end of the day, whenever I left the to go to go office, I had a good feeling because I knew I participated to a positive change today. And what you now shared relates to that. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely think be able to leave the day and thinking I've done something good for the world instead of something negative for the world is a really good feeling. Yeah.
00:06:53
Speaker
And then you switched to Deliciously Ella.
Why Deliciously Ella?
00:06:56
Speaker
Can you walk us through why you chose this as your next endeavor and also explain a little bit more like what's so special about this company, apart from it being not just a feud producer, but also a media company, as you said. Yeah. And what really differentiates them because there are a lot of vegan options out there. Yeah. So I chose Deliciously Ella because
00:07:19
Speaker
I guess it was an opportunity that kind of came my way. And when I looked into it, it was something kind of new, but kind of not. So obviously we're too good to go. I'd been working with a lot of supermarkets and kind of within the food space. So I kind of had some experience with food and I feel like diets are one of the leading kind of causes of climate change.
00:07:40
Speaker
I feel like it's a really relevant sustainability kind of angle as well as that I found because it was such a varied business. I thought it would be really great to kind of pull together previous skills. So they've got an app. So obviously it too good to go. I was working on the app for over four years. So that was kind of great experience to come back to the kind of app and tech side of things. Then at Dame I'd been leading their DTC and econ business. So I kind of had that element of it too.
00:08:09
Speaker
Obviously we've worked with influencers over the year and to kind of be working on the other side of the table was really exciting to kind of be behind the Instagram with two and a half million followers. I thought it would be a really exciting opportunity. And then obviously you've got the cookbooks and all of the content, which is kind of totally new to something I'd done before. So I thought it was a really good experience to bring my expertise in things I've done in the past, but
00:08:33
Speaker
with new things that seemed really interesting to get into. And then as a business, I kind of, I didn't really know a huge amount about them and kind of knew the blog side of the business, but I didn't really know much about the products business. And I just found it really interesting that Ella is so passionate about kind of making sure that there's no artificial ingredients in any of the products. So while there's been this big craze towards kind of veganism and plant-based swaps being, you know,
00:09:02
Speaker
fake burgers, fake bacon, fake bad meat, fake sausages, et cetera. What Ella and Matt, who's our CEO and her husband, have been really passionate about is not putting any artificial ingredients in. So no delicious yellow products will have artificial sweeteners or preservatives, emulsifiers, stabilizers, none of that, which is what the kind of vegan industry has become really reliant on. And so I think it's a really interesting kind of new frontier in
00:09:30
Speaker
veganism and plant-based eating, which is kind of whole foods again. And going back to, we're not about everyone being vegan, it's more about giving people natural plant-based options to pick from so that they're able to pick a delicious, healthy plant-based option when they want to pick it. And so there's Deliciously Yellow, which is the kind of master brand, but
00:09:54
Speaker
Earlier this year, Deliciously Yellow launched plants by Deliciously Yellow, which is a sub-brand, which is a lot more savory products. So that's been really interesting seeing plant-based swaps, but our version, which is just natural plant-based food in the shelves. So we've got coconut yogurt and they're doing incredibly well.
00:10:14
Speaker
top performers in the chill dials. And that's really great to see that people are realizing the problem with all these kind of fake alternatives and going for more natural products again. And I read this recently also in a report on the growth of plant-based food and why it does not deliver on the potential that it seemed to have at the beginning.
00:10:39
Speaker
is because the people who are interested in plant-based alternatives, they are also very conscious on eating healthy. And if there are all those preservatives in their artificial ingredients, then the people shift away from it again. So I think you're in a very interesting spot because you have plant-based products, but without all the shit.
Marketing Strategies for Health-Conscious Consumers
00:11:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:02
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think it's really exciting place, especially with the kind of conversation around ultra processed foods and people's awareness of how processed the foods they eat are. That seems to be something that's kind of bubbling up and we're already in the position where we don't use those products. Whereas a lot of people are going to be, a lot of businesses are going to now be panicking thinking like, how do we get all of the crap out of our products and how can we
00:11:28
Speaker
deliver this product in the same way without all of that in it. We've already done that job. So while they're all kind of trying to get their ducks in a row and make the product something that people are looking for nowadays, we've already done it, which I think is a really exciting position to be in as a business. Yeah, super interesting. So let's talk a little bit more about your marketing strategy. Who would you say is your target audience and how do you reach them?
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, so we're doing some work at the moment to really drill down and hone in on who that is. But on the whole, we aren't trying to go for vegans. We're trying to introduce plant-based food to everyone.
00:12:10
Speaker
instead of it being we're targeting vegetarians who want to be vegan or something like that, we're not really doing that. We're just trying to target people that are more health conscious and aware of the food that they eat. With the packaging that we design, we do say plant-based, but we don't have big vegan signs all over it. We're trying not to alienate people and not to just appeal to the vegan audience because
00:12:37
Speaker
If they're already vegan, also the contribution that we can, the change we can make to the planet by getting a vegan to eat our food, I don't think is as big as if we can convince someone who's a vegetarian to swap their filled pasta for a vegan option. So it's very much kind of not being militant. We've been doing quite a lot of sampling at relevant events. So for example,
00:13:00
Speaker
in the UK there's a lot of kind of like little runs that you can do like little competitions like not marathons but you know 10Ks or half marathons and so we've been sampling a lot of products at events like that and like foodie festivals so people don't care about food we care about health I feel like there are kind of
00:13:19
Speaker
easier converters because they're already aware of the benefits of moving to a more whole food plant-based diet.
Brand Growth and Organic Content
00:13:27
Speaker
But yeah, 2024, we're kind of doing the planning now and I'm sure we'll tweak things as we go. But on the whole, definitely not trying to be militant and single tract of eagans.
00:13:37
Speaker
Yeah. And what I really like also about that approach is you're going where your target audience is. And of course, Instagram, and I'd love to chat a little bit more about the account is a very important factor, but it's not just digital because nowadays most of the startups, they are all focused on, okay, let's have an Instagram account. Let's have a LinkedIn channel. Let's have a newsletter maybe, but they are not that much considering, okay, we could actually go where people already are.
00:14:06
Speaker
And I think that's a very smart approach you're taking there. Yeah, I guess we are very lucky in that we have a humongous following. I think our following is like almost 5 million across all social channels. So we kind of, in some ways, I mean, we can obviously get bigger and bigger, but you almost feel like you've kind of saturated everyone that wants to listen that are already in your bubble. So I think to be able to kind of grow further than where we are now is definitely about
00:14:34
Speaker
finding those people that, you know, may only think of Deliciously Ella still as cookbooks or a blog and showing that we do have an FMCG business and the products fully kind of link back to the ethos of Ella and what she communicates as well. And let's talk a little bit more about Ella now, because her profile
00:14:55
Speaker
seems to be very important in telling your message, also in the storytelling, because it is an inspiring story and you have, I checked more than 2.3 million followers on Instagram and she's very much at the center of that. So how important is she and her profile for your marketing outreach?
00:15:18
Speaker
Yeah. So I think Ella obviously is very integral to deliciously Ella. So she, I mean, when she's in the office every day with us and I'm very much kind of very key to everything we do or the content.
00:15:35
Speaker
She films with the team pretty much everything that goes onto the Instagram. So it is very much her. We've really found, and a lot of this is kind of anecdotal because I haven't been here for like a huge amount of time, but I think we've found that when trying to almost remove Ella or make Ella like less of a kind of presence within what we're doing, it hasn't performed. And I think that's because people really identify with people
00:16:03
Speaker
people really like people. And so when you remove that really constant kind of friendly face that you come to know and feel like you have a relationship with, I think it has been tricky for the company to maintain the same level of growth. However, I think we're aware that
00:16:24
Speaker
who knows what Ella's life will bring. She's had two children and got a maternity leave and stuff. So the business also needs to be able to stand on its own two feet without Ella in it, every single kind of post. So it's something that we're really aware of. And I think you can see that
00:16:42
Speaker
I mean, I don't know if it's really obvious, but there's like a lot more content, which is more hands, which may not always be Ella's hands, but it always comes from Ella's point of view as a kind of way to try and get around the need to have her kind of face in every single post. But I think it's very tricky to break away from the fact that it is a kind of founder-built business. The founder is Ella, it's Ella's story, it's Ella's Instagram. People will often email in to say like,
00:17:10
Speaker
Hi, Ella. And so I think people really resonate with her being in the business, which I think is a really nice thing, but obviously can maybe prove tricky at some point in the future.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I think it's very interesting story, this level of involvement by a founder and obviously different from what we experienced at Too Good to Go because there was all about the product and the customers and the businesses. So I would be interested also in, because you also mentioned stories and her story. How do you balance performance marketing and storytelling? Because sometimes it seems those are very different approaches.
00:17:51
Speaker
Yeah, well, a lot of our performance marketing, actually, we use our organic content. Well, I mean, we've tried lots, but what has performed best has been our organic content, which, I mean, for example, the recipes, you know, on Instagram, we post kind of videos of recipes and Ella talking through, you know, I made this delicious, creamy, green peels of risotto, something. And
00:18:17
Speaker
kind of talking through making it. And they perform really well on Instagram as organic content, but they also perform really well for them driving membership acquisition, which is kind of what we're mainly being focusing on because our website only got re-platformed two weeks ago. So we weren't really running
00:18:37
Speaker
typical e-com ads because website functionality wasn't really suitable. So up until now, because the membership is a lifestyle membership, having the kind of more organic and storytelling content has worked really well. We've kind of just turned on shopping ads, so things that are more kind of the DTC e-com advertising.
Membership Challenges and Strategies
00:19:03
Speaker
And that we've mainly just focused on the benefits of the products, kind of what we did at Too Good to Go. And that has been working. And so it feels like when it comes to the products, they can stand on their own and then kind of selling the products as the products is working. But the membership very much is around kind of the story still and getting access to all these delicious recipes that kind of Ella has curated and put together for you.
00:19:29
Speaker
Yeah. So the main goal is then to really drive the memberships and not so much selling products on an individual basis. Now that we've just moved to Shopify, it's probably going to be a fairly equal weight. I just come back from a few weeks of holidays. So as I've been gone, the website's kind of finally gone fully live. So I'm kind of going to spend the next week or so analyzing the kind of cross pollination between the membership offering and the DTC offering and work out, can we
00:19:59
Speaker
can we cross pollinate and just bring people into the membership but then upsell them the products or actually is it the other way around we need to bring people into the products and then upsell the membership or is it that we just have you know two kind of not separate but you know two streams and we bring people into both because some people are DTC shoppers and some people are interested in the membership and you don't need to do both but
00:20:23
Speaker
I would expect that a lot of people with the membership, part of the membership is you get 15% off always on the product. So you would expect that if people have come into the membership, then they're quite keen to shop anyway. Yeah. And so what do you think are like the main challenges in getting people to sign up for the membership? Because that's a very different business model from what we both experienced before. Yeah. Yeah. It's very interesting because I think with the kind of
00:20:53
Speaker
explosion of free content over the last five to 10 years. I think it is becoming very tricky to convince people to pay for things, especially when you can Google coconut lentil dal, you can Google that and you'll find seven recipes that are all free that you could make this evening.
00:21:12
Speaker
It is tricky and it's something we kind of talk about all the time. Like what is the reason to believe in paying for this membership and paying for these recipes? I think the thing that we're really focused on is making more than just content part of the membership. So yes, you get access to all of the content.
00:21:30
Speaker
We are always developing the app and the website to make sure that it's as user-friendly as possible. And it's kind of like having a cookbook at your fingertips rather than having to go into Google and search plant-based bolognese every time you want to find something. You've got a recipe book in your phone with 20 versions of that that you can use. But then we've also been doing, we've put the 15% always on discount.
00:21:53
Speaker
We've created Members Only merch. We've seen that merch is something people are really interested in. So we've made some Members Only merch, which you can only get as a member. And then we're going to also be, in the next couple of weeks, releasing
00:22:09
Speaker
public merch with a variety of different colors, for example, that, again, are members only so that people feel like they're getting more than just content for the membership. The price isn't too much. It's $24.99 for the year, which is, I think it works out like $2.09 a month. It's very fair.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's not a huge amount. And we give people a week's free trial and we find that once people come in for the trial, it's incredibly sticky. So a lot of people will stay, but it's just tipping people into submitting their card details to take that week's free trial and actually experience it. So
00:22:45
Speaker
So that's something we're always talking about how we can do a bit more of an open browse before the free trial so people can really understand what it is that the membership entails. So there's a lot that we can be kind of testing to see if we can get the needle moving quicker. Yeah. What I really like about this membership is you create your own platform then. So you're not that much dependent on
00:23:11
Speaker
Let's say an Instagram platform where things could change, but as soon as people are part of your community,
International Market and Sustainability
00:23:19
Speaker
you own the connection to them. And this has to be, of course, nurtured, but in the end, you're less dependent on those big players. Yeah, no, 100%. It's a very long-term strategy.
00:23:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think we definitely really see the value in creating and building this membership platform because yeah, as you say, we now have a community that are very much in our ecosystem and yes, the app is something that we develop in-house and it's not something that's kind of platformed, you know.
00:23:52
Speaker
even Shopify is a platform that could change or do things in the future. But we hope that the app is very much evergreen and will be a really good hub and base for all of our community for a long time. Because as you say, you can't always rely on Instagram. You see people whose accounts get hacked and overnight they lose their whole following. So that's what you want to rely on. It's a very risky strategy.
00:24:21
Speaker
I want to come back to one thing you mentioned before, which was growth. So at the beginning, probably the brand was mostly focused on the UK, but now you're also focused on international markets. So which markets are you currently operating in?
00:24:38
Speaker
So on D2C, we're UK, EU, and now US. So we launched into the US kind of a month ago. We've got our USMD who is based over there by herself, and we all kind of support from the UK. And so it's been, we've got one retail partner.
00:24:59
Speaker
live over there and then we have the DTC business. So the US is definitely a really key area that we're looking at. It's tricky because the US retailer that we have is an online retailer and obviously our DTC is online. So there's one thing there, which is a balance of how much we push our own online products offering versus how much we push our retail partner to really get them going.
00:25:27
Speaker
But yeah, US is a really key market. And then we also have a kind of international lead who is kind of been focusing on a lot of extra kind of European countries to begin with.
00:25:39
Speaker
And so she's been working on, we're doing quite a lot in like Austria, Switzerland, Netherlands. We've done a little bit of in-market work, but I think with a limited size team. I mean, I was saying like at Two Good to Go, we had a team in each market and we were still not like pumping out loads of stuff. It was quite considered and planned.
00:26:04
Speaker
Here we're a fairly small team and we're trying to physically launch in five markets a month at the same time from the UK, which is definitely tricky. And we hope that we can turn on some key markets like Australia, New Zealand, South Africa by early next year for DTC shipping. Something that's tricky with international expansion for this business is
00:26:29
Speaker
the food products and food legislation. For example, we were shipping period products all over the world and I hadn't really, really thought much about it. We just kind of had a kind of online fulfillment partner and did it. Whereas with food, there's a lot more legislation and you need to send additional information or change your packaging. And that makes it kind of a higher barrier to growth. I can see that, but it sounds very promising. Like I'm super curious when we talk next time in a couple of months,
00:26:59
Speaker
how far you've expanded the brand and the offering. So before we come to the final three questions, I want to ask you what role does sustainability play in your marketing strategy? Because you are, as you mentioned, a lot focused on the nutritional value. But do you also play with the aspect of that it's good for the planet also, if they change to a more plant-based diet?
00:27:27
Speaker
Yeah I think I since coming in have been quite keen to talk about sustainability more because I do think what we're doing is a really good thing for the planet and like actually a lot of the products are made in the UK as well so I think that there's a lot of really great stuff. I think the company in general has been nervous because obviously
00:27:46
Speaker
there's always something you can do better. So for example, I know that before I joined, they tried going to fully recyclable packaging. And then the adverse effect of that was that the shelf life wasn't as stable. So then the food waste really increased. And actually, we know food waste is more damaging to the planet than
00:28:08
Speaker
you know, an element of kind of plastic to a wrapper. So I think as a business, they have felt a bit nervous to talk too much about sustainability in fear of being called out for other things. I mean, something that I've always said is like, you know, at Too Good To Go, we were always being called out for plastic packaging from restaurants and
00:28:30
Speaker
stuff like that. And we were quite single track minded in being like, that's not the problem we're trying to fix. The problem we're trying to fix is food waste. There's loads of problems in the world and we're only picking one. So I think there's definitely more we could do on really just agreeing that the problem we're trying to fix is the kind of carbon emissions of your diet. And we're not focused on
00:28:52
Speaker
food waste and we're not focused on packaging, although there's actually very minimal food waste because we do sampling with any short dated stock, which is obviously really great for me as someone from a food based background to make sure that we don't have that problem. Yeah. But yeah, I think it's something that we should definitely tap into more in the future. But just kind of, I think everyone's a little nervous. I think it's
00:29:16
Speaker
It's because whenever a brand is already more on the sustainable side of the spectrum, they face much more scrutiny on the details. Like how many questions are asked to McDonald's?
00:29:32
Speaker
Burger King, Pizza Hut, when it comes to sustainability, not a lot. And when there is a company that's doing something good, people are looking much more thoroughly into all the details. So I think that's something that working with sustainable brands, we just need to consider.
00:29:52
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree. I do think people are so hypocritical. As soon as someone tries to do something or says they're going to do something, then they try and just find all the flaws with it. And I do think such a problem for sustainability because it will be really tricky for other smaller businesses to really focus on it. Because I'll just say, oh, we don't want to try and
00:30:14
Speaker
do this because as soon as we tell everyone about it, they're going to ask us why we haven't done that. So we'd rather just do nothing and stay quiet, which is obviously then never going to improve things.
Sustainability and Digital Marketing Changes
00:30:23
Speaker
And that's also no progress. If we say, okay, a company is either good or bad, and it's just black and white, then we'll lose sight of all the progress that is also made, which might not be perfect, but we can only reach a more perfect status when we go those steps first. Yeah, 100%. It's definitely,
00:30:44
Speaker
Isn't that very cliche? It's not about one person doing things perfectly, but about a million people doing things imperfectly. And that's how you can actually get change. Let's move on to the final three questions. So first is, what makes good marketing in three words?
00:31:02
Speaker
Okay. I think creativity, passion, and maybe like hard work. Can I hyphen it and have it as one? Yeah. Works. Great. Next question. What is the future of marketing? I definitely think very much sustainability is hopefully going to become such a like, it's going to have to just become such an integral part of everyone's business.
00:31:29
Speaker
It won't be that, you know, we have these discussions around sustainability as much anymore because every business should just be doing it as standard. And it should just be shocking that, you know, that they aren't doing it. You know, it should, I kind of have how it is with plastic straws. If you see a plastic straw out and about nowadays, you're very shocked and confused. Whereas literally like what two years ago you wouldn't have been. So I think that sustainability is just going to become a given, which I think is really important, I guess.
00:31:58
Speaker
I don't know. It's really tricky. I think the digital side of things is so unknown. With X now, if that's becoming paywalled, is that whole channel that just vanishes? I feel like the digital landscape is changing so much. I definitely think the future will have a lot of changes. I'm sure there's going to potentially be another
00:32:21
Speaker
platform like TikTok that because I mean I remember we were in lockdown and TikTok kind of really took off so that wasn't that many years ago so I'm sure there's gonna be something else that comes along and takes us all by surprise and everyone kind of has to suddenly pivot and become something else's because you know I think I remember it too good to go just before I left I think we were having debates around like
00:32:43
Speaker
We really need to be on TikTok and some people in the team weren't that interested and said it was just for kids. And now it's like, if you're not on TikTok, then you've really lost a lot of relevancy as a brand. Yeah. You need to stay open for that. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely think you have to remain very open-minded and you can't have your personal opinions lead what you think for a business because otherwise I think you can fall behind times very quickly. Yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker
Last question, the personal one. What book have you recently read that you want to recommend here?
00:33:15
Speaker
I'm very dyslexic, so I'm not actually very good at reading. So I do a lot of podcasts. It's my way of reading. So I listen to a lot of marketing podcasts. I really like the DTC podcast. I can't remember the name. I think it's like the DTC podcast or something, which is really interesting. And they kind of have lots of different business marketing leaders coming in and talking about different elements of things that they've
00:33:41
Speaker
struggled with or successes. And I find that really interesting listening to other businesses. And then I also, it's a bit of a cliche for a girl, but Grace Beverly's working hard or hardly working, I think it's called. I enjoy that. I just think it's interesting listening to a lot of kind of mainly female, also kind of business leaders. I think that's quite inspiring. And I think it's so important for women in business to have their voices heard because I feel like they have really great things to say, but
00:34:10
Speaker
You know, the bias is normally towards men in general. That's so nice. Thanks for sharing those. It's all right. Thank you very much for coming on the show. It was great
Conclusion: Achieving Sustainable Growth
00:34:22
Speaker
chatting with you, seeing you again, and also learning from your approach. Thank you. Yeah, lovely to chat to you. Hope to see you soon. You too.
00:34:31
Speaker
And that's it for today's episode. Thank you for listening. And now I have a question for you. Are you curious how your marketing can achieve sustainable growth? Then I have some simple and exciting options for you. First, this is exactly what I do for my clients. I help them build their future strategy with workshops and sparring sessions.
00:34:54
Speaker
I also have a very simple entry offer for founders and aspiring marketing experts, the Simple and Sustainable Marketing Academy, with a ridiculously cheap entry ticket price, because I love sharing what I've learned. Lastly, if you enjoy reading, check out my newsletter, where I write about marketing, strategies and sustainability, for over a thousand bright and curious minds.
00:35:19
Speaker
you can find all the info in the show notes. And if you have any feedback on this episode, I'd love to hear it. Please give me a rating wherever you listen, if you like it, or reach out to me directly. So until next time on Future Strategies.