Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
57 – Nashville Ghosts and Otto in an Attic
23 Plays1 day ago
This week, Sam dives into the haunted history of Printer’s Alley and the story of David Schulman, a beloved figure in Nashville’s vibrant nightlife. Meanwhile, Jeff shares the twisted and bizarre true story of Otto in the Attic—a secret lover hidden above the ceiling, a murder, and a magical vagina. You’ll laugh, gasp, and possibly need to lock your attic door.
Visit us on Linktree for the collection of links, Instagram, or email us at jeffandsamshow@gmail.com.
Jeff’s sources:
- Dolly Oesterreich’s House – I Am Not a Stalker
- Walburga “Dolly” Oesterreich – Wikipedia
- Murderous Lover in a Silver Lake Attic – LAist
- The Dollop #200 – Otto in the Attic
Sam’s source:
Recommended
Transcript
Introductions and Listener Engagement
00:00:00
Jeff Rogers
Hello, Sam. Hi, Jeffrey.
00:00:25
Jeff Rogers
And welcome to the Jeff and Sam show. I'm Jeff. And I'm Sam. You got it right. Yes. I can do that every once in a while. Every once in a while. But it wouldn't be us if it wasn't.
00:00:35
Jeff Rogers
We're here. Odd. And we're queer. And we're here to podcast to you, around you. Talk in your ear. Talk in your ear. Want to talk just like this? These are the days of your lives.
00:00:47
Jeff Rogers
With Jeff and Sam. Oh, that was good. like that. ah Please. That was a little bit of a mess. But rate us. Give us five stars.
00:00:58
Jeff Rogers
Because who else would do that in your ear? Right.
Technical Difficulties and Humor
00:01:01
Jeff Rogers
And you can find us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, or you can recommend us on any of those platforms. We're there.
00:01:09
Jeff Rogers
You can. And the more you rate us, again, give us five stars. more you review us, the more that other people can find us without you directly telling them about us because we're awesome. And email and website are in the show notes.
00:01:21
Jeff Rogers
They are indeed. You can podcast or Instagram. You can do the Jeff and Sam show. um Follow us. We're kind of awesome.
Storm Stories and Gatherings
00:01:30
Jeff Rogers
Yeah. um We just spent 45 minutes trying to bring you this episode because, as we've said multiple times, we are not tech people. and something about the USB port that we have been using every day for the last year and a month decided that today it didn't want to work.
00:01:50
Jeff Rogers
It damn sure did, didn't it? we had to pick a new USB port. But we didn't know that was the problem. We couldn't hear the intro music. We couldn't hear the outro music. We could to hear nothing but our voices. ah Yeah. Anyway, we're here.
00:02:01
Jeff Rogers
We are. moving past it. Sam brought a thunderstorm with her. As my brother-in-law likes to call it, a thunder boomer. A thunder boomer. A thunder boomer. You texted me.
00:02:13
Jeff Rogers
You're going to beat the storm. It took you 30 minutes to get here, give or take. On your way, it got darker here, darker, darker, lightning, thunder, and then you're here.
00:02:24
Jeff Rogers
When I said I was trying to beat the storm, I purely meant I'm bringing the storm because i am darkness you did and lightning. That's good. flipped into one small package.
00:02:36
Jeff Rogers
You really are.
Discussing 'Revival' and 'The Strangers'
00:02:37
Jeff Rogers
you really are. What's new? Oh, God. I feel like we talked too much before the microphones actually got in front our faces. Yeah, we did. We talked about JonBenet Ramsey. We talked about... The Black Dalio. We talked about this card game that you have. We talked about Gaze the Word again because it's never a bad idea talk about Gaze the I got a birthday card that was bought at Gaze the Word in London. Yay!
00:03:01
Jeff Rogers
And sent to me from Copenhagen. Thank you very much. Tusen tak, tusen tak. It's my Norwegian for the Norwegian people to make fun of. They're used to it though, so they don't even make fun of it anymore.
00:03:14
Jeff Rogers
vist. Ja vist. That's it. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. That's all I got. You know, one thing I was going to mention last week. That I didn't mention last week.
00:03:26
Jeff Rogers
Is that Savannah. Ashley's daughter came the party. She did. Yes. And I love her. She's amazing. She is miniature Ashley.
00:03:37
Jeff Rogers
She is. She really is.
TV and Book Recommendations
00:03:40
Jeff Rogers
Miniature Ashley. And then Sarah Rose and Allie made me those two beautiful birthday cards.
00:03:48
Jeff Rogers
They did. And they're amazing. That was such good artwork and ah love it. And it was from the heart. And it was from the heart. Absolutely. um So yeah, there's that.
00:04:01
Jeff Rogers
I did finish reading, you know, the book that I was reading on the plane that I kept falling asleep to. Yes. I would fall asleep. That's a thing, right? Get on the plane, sit down, zonk out.
00:04:12
Jeff Rogers
That was the revival by Stephen King. Yeah. And you didn't fall asleep because the book was uninteresting. It was because that you were on a plane and it's, you've programmed yourself. The book was not uninteresting. The book was so good. It starts. Was it what you said it was going to be?
00:04:29
Jeff Rogers
Well, okay. It starts with the preacher who is suspicious.
Banter and Cheers Quiz
00:04:34
Jeff Rogers
And then you're like, is he suspicious? And then you have a lot of empathy for him. And then is he suspicious again? And I'm not going to ruin the ending.
00:04:44
Jeff Rogers
ah found that one on a Reddit thread, like good books by Stephen King, some kind of Reddit thread. And that one was the top mentioned one.
00:04:55
Jeff Rogers
Was it the preacher? Oh, I don't know. yeah going to have to for i was like what is she gonna say no it was it was a really good book yeah you did you texted what were your exact words something about how it was amazing yeah no it really was and uh that was amazing and then last night i watched something called the strangers an old movie with live tyler 2008 two thousand and eight horrific yes horrific was it the strangers but maybe it was the strangers yeah i don't know what i said yeah yeah no no good good movie have you seen it too right yes because damn that was scary it like drew on every scary thing you could draw on the sound effects the visuals the murder uh it was also ah yeah yeah scott speedman
00:05:49
Jeff Rogers
that pretty pretty impressive uh
History of Printer's Alley
00:05:54
Jeff Rogers
Cast lineup, that was old school, 2008. Yeah. That was a good one. It was good. So fucked up.
00:06:00
Jeff Rogers
um But it was good. Should we do a cheers quiz? Of course we should. But first you should tell me what you're drinking. I am gonna drink a
00:06:12
Jeff Rogers
I'm gonna drink a poppy cherry limeade soda. i am drinking a poppy wild berry.
00:06:22
Jeff Rogers
it smells good you smell good
00:06:26
Jeff Rogers
cheers quiz cheers quiz ah we're here we're queer we're giving you a story or two that's it i was gonna recommend that book to you um of revival stephen king okay so we've talked about this outside of the podcast obviously and i think i've told everyone else from our work about this.
00:06:51
Jeff Rogers
Shira told me to read this book series before I got into another one. Um, it's, I think you would tolerate it because it's not fantasy. It is real life people just living their lives and they happen to be serial killers or quote multiple deleters or, um hit men or whatever it is. And it's like,
00:07:14
Jeff Rogers
Shira, I hope you know that I finished the first book in a day and then I finished the second book in a day. And I haven't read the third one purely because I've been doing life outside of these books.
The Dolly, Fred, and Otto Saga
00:07:25
Jeff Rogers
And it's been very hard for me not to wake up and just read the third one because they're so good and they're dark and horrible and they're horrible and fantastic. And there's some raunchiness to it. What did you say the name was?
00:07:43
Jeff Rogers
It's called the Ruinous Love Trilogy, but the first book is Butcher and Blackbird. The second one is Lark and Leather, or Leather and Lark. And then the third one is Scythe and Sparrow.
00:07:56
Jeff Rogers
It's so good. Brittany was watching me the other day at work, and I'm just like smiling so big and then laughing hysterically at this book series. And it's...
00:08:07
Jeff Rogers
Really good. Yeah, she's told me about that one before, but she let me listen to a little bit of hers on Audible. And just listening to them talk was, it was really interesting. So I'm going to read it. It's on my list. It's, it's, it is a refreshing
00:08:25
Jeff Rogers
pause from all of like the heavy stuff right you know not that it's not heavy i mean like i said serial killers um but i think that you will thoroughly enjoy it because they there's a lot of levity in what they're doing and then their relationship okay um perfect so good read it Okay, it's on my list. You watch Happy Valley. I will. I now own three seasons. We've been talking about Happy Valley for a year on the show. And then Sam had the nerve to look at me and say, do you have any good British recommendations? And I was like, wait, hold on.
00:08:59
Jeff Rogers
No, you didn't even say that. you You got all like, don't even talk to me. You got to watch Happy Valley first. So I purchased it. I purchased all three seasons. I now own them. So i will go home and I will watch.
00:09:11
Jeff Rogers
It's storming tonight. You literally brought the storms to Virginia. It's a good night to watch Happy Valley. So I need, I don't, don't work tomorrow. What? So I need, for whatever reason, I don't work tomorrow. So i need a report from you on the first season.
00:09:30
Jeff Rogers
bye tomorrow. In a text. Okay. By tomorrow. Perfect. Say no more. Oh, you're going to tell me how much you fucking love this woman. She's so badass and you know that makes me badass woman. You love yourself badass woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:44
Jeff Rogers
Okay, I can't wait. okay Anyway, it's now 10 minutes. Let's flip a coin. All right, tell me when to stop. Okay.
00:09:52
Jeff Rogers
Okay, stop.
00:09:55
Jeff Rogers
That's a big one. Oh! That's huge. and If you flip that somewhere and it hits a window, it will go right through the window, okay? So just know that. and That's quite heavy. i might What is it? Which one is it? It is the the Tower Bridge in London. Oh, we got that. Didn't we get that there?
00:10:12
Jeff Rogers
At the Tower Bridge? Yeah. Okay, I'm going stand for this one I'm going to catch you. I'm going to do this. Okay. All right, so you are going to do you want to be the bridge do you want to be the flag? um I'll be the flag.
00:10:24
Jeff Rogers
Okay, I'll be the bridge. All right, ready?
00:10:29
Jeff Rogers
Oh, I'm so scared. Don't hit me with it. Don't hit me with it. She's living it.
00:10:35
Jeff Rogers
She caught it. She caught it.
00:10:38
Jeff Rogers
It's the bridge. That was you. I just caught that. Okay. Did you see that? That was amazing. I mean, it was like dramatic, i want you to but amazing. I want you to know that pulse shoots up every time have push. Mine does too, because I think I'm going to be hitting the face with a big coin. That would hurt like a motherfucker.
00:10:59
Jeff Rogers
All right. um So I already told you a little bit. I wanted this story to be so much more than it was. Unfortunately, I could not for the life of me find what I wanted about it. So it kind of morphed. And so what it was going to be, it's now just a small little history lesson.
00:11:20
Jeff Rogers
Okay. And then I will tell you guys this after her history lesson, I have one of my favorite old-timey stories coming in your way.
00:11:32
Jeff Rogers
So it's worth staying around and listening to This one's one of my favorites. Huh. I'm Now she's interested. I can see it. She's interested. Don't worry. Mine's only a page and a half, so you'll be up to go. Oh, no.
00:11:47
Jeff Rogers
Okay. Okay. I'm ready. Get ready. I'm ready. Okay. So there is a place in Nashville that is a hub of nightlife and neon lights. And you know, we went to Nashville recently.
00:12:00
Jeff Rogers
Two blocks away from the main strip on Broadway, printer's alley is tucked away, but it carries its own appeal. Today, visitors get to enjoy the nightlife with the eerie undertones of ghosts and secrets.
00:12:15
Jeff Rogers
So night when that we went to Nashville, we did a
00:12:21
Jeff Rogers
speakeasy true crime tour. And it was awesome. And so that's where I got the idea for this story. But like I said, there wasn't much out there.
00:12:34
Jeff Rogers
um
00:12:35
Jeff Rogers
In the 18th century, the two-block alley started as an empty land owned by a wealthy businessman named George Diedrich. He worked so closely with the then up-and-coming Nashville that he donated a small plot of his land to them in exchange for having a street named after him.
00:12:56
Jeff Rogers
What started as an alleyway to hitch horses evolved many times over the years. In the 1830s, the moniker was earned when publishing houses moved in on available property.
00:13:09
Jeff Rogers
The location attracted publishers of all sizes and types. With such a largely male-dominated industry, it wasn't long before a, quote, men's quarter was created.
00:13:22
Jeff Rogers
Saloons, hotels, brothels, and everything else that a male might need to ease his mind after a long day of printing. Other gay men?
00:13:34
Jeff Rogers
Probably. Nah, it's Nashville, maybe not. Probably not.
00:13:39
Jeff Rogers
Prohibition could not stop the flow of alcohol into the alley. Any empty office and any available building space was transformed. Speakeasies and ja jazz clubs popped up all along the alley.
00:13:52
Jeff Rogers
And they're still there today. So i was part of the whole tour was we got to go into all these speakeasies. The alley devolved or evolved. Don't really know, depending on your point of view, into a sin bin.
00:14:05
Jeff Rogers
Oh, I love that. Full of shady characters and questionable transactions. As expected, with all these questionable things happening, death and murder started weaving its way into the alley and through history.
00:14:21
Jeff Rogers
The first notable murder was that of a journalist, duh, and a candidate for Senate and Congress. In early November 1908, the staff of the Tennessean, which was a really, really big newspaper at the time, arrived to find their co-worker,
00:14:41
Jeff Rogers
Edward Carmack shot dead. Investigation unfolded. They ended up finding out that his death was directly linked to his former mentor, Duncan Cooper, about whom he had recently written a an absolutely scathing editorial.
00:14:58
Jeff Rogers
Three years after his death, the governor pardoned his killer. Nobody knows why.
00:15:04
Jeff Rogers
The most shocking death that absolutely rocked and halted the town was that of David Skull Skullman. So Skull was his nickname, and he was a successful and motivated young businessman that knew how to cater to the clientele of the alley.
00:15:24
Jeff Rogers
In 1948, he opened the Rainbow Room. It became a quote, Unique crossroads where the rich and famous stood shoulder to shoulder with the broke and the forgotten.
00:15:36
Jeff Rogers
As the years progressed and the alley became sketchier, he still thrived. His business continued to boom and attract new clients as well. He was known for his generosity and his radiant smile.
00:15:48
Jeff Rogers
Damn. Damn. Damn. his club was so welllike and exceptional that he hosted performers like elvis presley who johnny cash bob dylan will nelson and patsy kle damn known as the unofficial mayor of nashville he was an absolute icon On January 21st, 1998, Skull, 80 years old at the time, was found dead with his throat slashed and his head bludgeoned in.
00:16:21
Jeff Rogers
His well-known dog that he used to walk all over town, Sweetie, was left to wander the streets after he was killed.
00:16:30
Jeff Rogers
His murder went unsolved for three years. But then when they finally found his killers, there was nothing... interesting or exciting about the there was nothing personal about what these guys it was just random it was they just wanted to rob him they didn't know him damn they didn't do this because he was somebody it was just a couple of dudes killed him for no reason the brutal nature of the crime disguised that basic but very tragic impersonal motive
00:17:03
Jeff Rogers
The Rainbow Room closed for a few years after Skull's death, but then when it reopened 17 years later, people noticed a lingering presence.
Trial and Aftermath
00:17:13
Jeff Rogers
It's largely known that his ghost still resides in the Rainbow Room, and though he died at 80 years old, his ghost is revitalized.
00:17:23
Jeff Rogers
He has a seat forever saved, the second to the last stool next to the end of the bar. Although the alley is now humming with young revelers and visitors from all over, The dark history can be felt if you spend enough time walking in and out of the bars and stores.
00:17:40
Jeff Rogers
That is really interesting. short Short story. I wanted to find more about Skull, but there's just not out. Because there wasn't anything nefarious about it.
00:17:50
Jeff Rogers
It was a simple, we wanted to rob this guy. We did. And then we got away with it for three years. so they just Here's this man that's lived his most amazing life. right And then the way he died is so...
00:18:03
Jeff Rogers
Unbelievable. And that there's so much more about him. The way he touched people's lives. I mean, his generosity. He always gave a spot to homeless people. He always provided meals and he dressed such in such a goofy way that everyone knew him.
00:18:20
Jeff Rogers
And the rich people were sitting right beside the poor people. And they were. And that's the kind of environment that he just, he created. and if you look at the pictures. Elvis. And Elvis came to perform there. He did. That's amazing. Johnny Cash. That's incredible. Patsy Cline. Oh, my God.
00:18:36
Jeff Rogers
Jeez. So, yeah. Good job. That was good. I like that. I wish there was more, but like you said, his death was a pointless, ugh, horror. Okay. Okay.
00:18:48
Jeff Rogers
No. Okay. Tell me this story. i think you're going to like it. Okay. I mean, I like very few things and I just absolutely hate stories you tell typically. Yeah. Okay. Good. No pressure.
00:18:59
Jeff Rogers
No pressure. No pressure. No pressure. No pressure. Trigger warning. Oh God. One of us may sing a show tune. It's going to be you.
00:19:11
Jeff Rogers
During this story. It's going to be you. Crap. I don't know if it's going to be me. We're going to see if we we sync on this. I think we will. Okay. Okay.
00:19:20
Jeff Rogers
In 1922, police were called to the home and to a home in Los Angeles after there were reports of gunshots. When the police arrived, they found a young man, or a man, lying dead in the living room with multiple gunshot wounds, including one to the back of the head.
00:19:36
Jeff Rogers
The dead man's wife was found alive. The wife told the police that there was a robbery. And she couldn't have done it. And any evidence that there was said that she couldn't have done it.
00:19:49
Jeff Rogers
But the police were really suspicious of her. And they were really suspicious of her story. She told the detective that she and her husband never fought.
00:20:00
Jeff Rogers
Not even one time. And she was really adamant about it. And the intensity of that denial made the detective really skeptical. i mean, wouldn't you be? Absolutely. What married couple doesn't fight.
00:20:11
Jeff Rogers
Exactly. Plus, her husband was killed with a.25 caliber pistol. A very small caliber. Caliber. Generally considered a woman's gun. yes. Back in the day.
00:20:23
Jeff Rogers
What kind of robber carries a woman's gun? Could it have been her? But the police couldn't figure it out because, like I said, the evidence said it could not have been her.
00:20:35
Jeff Rogers
And they would later learn that there was much more to this L.A. housewife than anyone could have expected. You ready for this? I'm so ready. Okay. Okay.
00:20:46
Jeff Rogers
Walburga Korshell, nicknamed Dolly, that's what I'm going to call her from this point on, was born in 1880-ish to German immigrant parents. It's really unclear whether she was born in Germany or if she was born in Wisconsin after they immigrated here.
00:21:04
Jeff Rogers
um She moved into, or they moved to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where there was a community of German immigrants. At the age of 12, Dolly worked at a textile mill owned by Fred Strike.
00:21:16
Jeff Rogers
another German immigrant who had become successful and frequently hired fellow immigrants in his factories. Dolly was by all accounts attractive and she was charismatic.
00:21:27
Jeff Rogers
She had a lot of friends and she was really friends with the factory workers. They really liked her. What lady named Dolly is not charismatic? Abso-fucking-lutely. Find me one. Yep. She got married when she was 17 to the owner of the factory.
00:21:41
Jeff Rogers
His name was Fred, like I said. Fred was worth a lot of money because he owned the factories. And Dolly, from the beginning, from the very beginning, it was suspected that she had a lot of affairs.
00:21:53
Jeff Rogers
um Both of them were considered really good-looking. Fred was always stressed out and angry, Because word on the street was that he was a little bit of an alcoholic, okay? and Word on the street.
00:22:07
Jeff Rogers
Because of Fred's booze issue or alcoholism, Dolly wasn't getting sex as much as she wanted, so they would argue. get it girl. Dolly was now a stay-at-home wife while Fred was out yelling at his employees at the factory, work harder, work harder.
00:22:22
Jeff Rogers
Why couldn't she go to work? He's worth a lot of money. She's going to stay home. Maybe that's what she wanted to do. But everybody at the factory loved Dolly and Dolly tried to take care of them.
00:22:34
Jeff Rogers
Fred was like sort of the asshole and Dolly was the intermediary. She would speak up for people that worked there. One day when Dolly was 26, she went to the factory and 17 year old young man caught her attention.
00:22:46
Jeff Rogers
The young man was one of the sewing machine repairmen. who worked there. His name was Otto Sandhauber. So just going to call him Otto. Otto was sort of nerdy looking, and he was really, really shy.
00:23:00
Jeff Rogers
But Dolly and Otto started to get to know each other more and more. Then Dolly said her sewing machine at home was broken, and she needed somebody to come and fix it.
00:23:11
Jeff Rogers
So in 1913, Dolly asked Fred to get the sewing machine repairman from work to come and fix it. And in the fall of 1913, Otto went to Dolly's house and of course Dolly answered the door.
00:23:22
Jeff Rogers
Soon the two of them, Dolly and Otto, were having sex every day, all day long, everywhere, all the time. Well, good for her. And that lasted for three years.
00:23:34
Jeff Rogers
Dolly even told the neighbors that Otto was her, like, vagabond half-brother because the neighbors were starting to be like, who is this young man coming in and out of the house?
00:23:45
Jeff Rogers
Fred heard about Otto's visit, and Fred was pissed. Dolly said Otto had been bothering her and she would put a stop to it. um Oh. Fred accepted that. After some time, Otto started to come back over and over and they started fucking like rabbits again, ah seven to eight times a day.
00:24:04
Jeff Rogers
But those pesky neighbors were a little bit of a problem because he was constantly in and out of the house, right? And Dolly had an idea. ah Jesus. Do you know this story? I do.
00:24:14
Jeff Rogers
You do? i know I know the next part, and I know what happened. Okay. and Yeah. So she had this idea. She got Otto to quit his job and move into the attic.
00:24:26
Jeff Rogers
Otto did this. Mind you, it's Fred and Dolly's house, and now Otto is living in the attic. unaware is ah homeowner he's also give up his life to be in that attic and to have sex with dolly when fred was working and out being drunk so it must have been really good sex can i mean i mean damn listen quit my job moving to your attic absolutely Now, Otto gave up a lot to continue this.
00:24:53
Jeff Rogers
And in the attic, Otto had a chamber pot, a cot, and a desk. And the way that you got out of the attic was through a little door above the master bedroom. So Otto put a lock on the attic door from the inside of the attic so Fred could never get into the attic.
00:25:11
Jeff Rogers
And Otto lived there in the attic. Dolly would signal that Fred was gone. Otto would come down and they would have sex. Otto never left the property. At night, when Dolly and Fred were out, Otto would go outside and exercise.
00:25:24
Jeff Rogers
Nobody ever saw Otto, and Otto was obsessed with Dolly. What did he eat? We'll get to that. Dolly would make sure, literally in the next sentence, Dolly would make sure he had plenty of food, a lot of meat, a lot of milk, so he was getting his protein, right? There you go.
00:25:42
Jeff Rogers
And a lot of the time, Otto was in the attic was in the summertime before AC. He had one window. He could read a lot of books by candlelight at night, but he wouldn't make a sound because Fred would hear him.
00:25:55
Jeff Rogers
He was over his bed. Otto was living over this man's bed. And this went on for five years. For five years, Otto lived in the attic. Otto had other dreams, too. He wanted to be a writer.
00:26:09
Jeff Rogers
So while living in the attic, he wrote a lot of fiction, even getting some of it published under a pen name. Fred did notice some of his cigars disappeared and food was going really fast, but he chalked it up to maybe I'm just crazy. i don't know you know. Maybe I'm an alcoholic. He didn't think about that.
00:26:27
Jeff Rogers
Dolly did. fred and Fred decided that he and Dolly needed a change, right? Like fresh start. So Fred picked Los Angeles as the new starting place. Dolly said, sure, I'll go with you, Fred, but I'll go with one condition.
00:26:42
Jeff Rogers
Do you know what that condition would be? That we have an attic in the house of and the house in Los Angeles. She needed her booty call that badly. Did she drag him halfway across country?
00:26:54
Jeff Rogers
So houses in l LA usually don't come with attics, but by God, they found one. And Dolly sent Otto ahead of them to settle into his new place, the new attic. His new place?
00:27:04
Jeff Rogers
In his new attic, Otto had a mattress, a chamber pot, and oil lamps. Fred and Dolly soon arrived at their new home. Otto's hanging out in the attic and sort of continues on like this, like it had been.
00:27:17
Jeff Rogers
But now Otto is like cleaning the house. He's making the beds. He's washing the dishes. He's doing the chores, but he still goes up into the attic and hides.
00:27:25
Jeff Rogers
So Fred it goes to work. Otto comes down from his perch. Cleans. Cleans. Has sex. Cleans. Has sex. Dolly is like doing the most here. She's living the best life. But the attic in LA was a lot smaller than the attic in Milwaukee where they had moved from.
00:27:40
Jeff Rogers
So Otto had to be really, really quiet, right? And also Otto could hear Dolly and Fred having sex. And Otto loved Dolly. So one night Otto begged her to leave him.
00:27:52
Jeff Rogers
She told him that Fred has the money. She literally has no skills or money of her own. Arguably, maybe she had like one skill, right? Like ah
00:28:02
Jeff Rogers
Sex? Yeah, absolutely. She had a skill. It got a man to move into her attic halfway across the country. I mean, damn. And one night when Dolly and Fred were having sex, Fred heard Otto clear his throat.
00:28:16
Jeff Rogers
Fred heard what he heard, right? Dolly was so good, though, that she explained it away. And Fred was still drinking a lot, so it kind of worked. Fred actually noticed the attic door was locked, but Dolly explained it as, that's where I put my fur coat so nobody will take a fur coat.
00:28:34
Jeff Rogers
The argument started to turn violent. Their marriage started to fall apart. Fred was drinking more and more. Often Fred was shit-faced, and he noticed but he noticed stuff like the cigars and the leftovers disappearing.
00:28:48
Jeff Rogers
Dolly again would say, Fred, honey, you were so drunk. And he would buy it, right? And August 1922. nineteen twenty two An argument between Fred and Dolly was so bad that Otto was afraid that Dolly was going to get really hurt or even like be killed.
00:29:08
Jeff Rogers
So Otto came out of the attic and he grabbed Fred's 25 caliber pistol, ran downstairs and confronted Fred. Can you imagine seeing him for the first time in like seven years? That was the sewing machine man in Milwaukee. Yeah.
00:29:21
Jeff Rogers
He's been living in our attic for the past seven years. Yes. probably So pale. He was really, really pale when he came out of the attic. That sounds horrible. Listen, no, you know what? I don't care how, so how good the sex is. I would never do that purely because I need sun.
00:29:35
Jeff Rogers
Well, so when Fred saw him, he was like, what are you doing? Like, what the fuck? Fred and Otto got into a fight. Shots were fired. And one went into the ceiling.
00:29:46
Jeff Rogers
Two went into the chest. And one went right into the head. Fred was shot in the head. And now he's dead. You're going to sing something. Nope. No, I'm not.
00:29:58
Jeff Rogers
He fired two warning shots into his head. She had it coming. She did it. Dolly and Otto, they were like, oh shit.
00:30:10
Jeff Rogers
Fucking Fred is dead, right? What the hell? So they decided to make everything look like the home had just been robbed. They overturned the furniture. They destroyed the inside of the house. Otto locked Dolly in a closet, tossed away the key on the floor, and Otto headed back to the place that he knows, the attic.
00:30:27
Jeff Rogers
Jesus Christ. Neighbors heard the gunshots and called the cops. And when the cops arrived, they found Dolly in the closet. She told them that when she got home, she went upstairs and to change, but before she could, she was pushed from behind and shoved into the closet.
00:30:41
Jeff Rogers
Detective Klein bought her story, but there were still some confusing things to him. The.25 caliber was a woman's gun. No man would use that gun. Of course not. They used manly guns. Of course.
00:30:53
Jeff Rogers
And a woman would never use a manly gun. Absolutely. Bet Dolly would. Goddamn right she would. Dolly also told Detective Klein that she and Fred never fought. That struck Klein as kind of odd.
00:31:08
Jeff Rogers
Also, Fred had cash in his pockets and in his wallet. One of the items taken was a diamond watch that Fred was wearing, but the robbers didn't take the cash in his pocket or the cash in his wallet.
00:31:19
Jeff Rogers
Detective Klein even went to Wisconsin to investigate the couple. People said they argued a lot, but that was it. And at the end of the day, Dolly couldn't just lock herself in the closet. There was no way.
00:31:30
Jeff Rogers
That's the end of it. there yeah Dolly then inherited millions of dollars from Fred. Okay. But Dolly, she bought a new home. And the home had an attic.
00:31:44
Jeff Rogers
Fuck off. So Otto moved right up into the new attic. This is now the man's third attic. Even though there's no husband. And Fred's murder remained and his murder remained unsolved.
00:31:58
Jeff Rogers
At this point, police thought Dolly was a little suspicious. They kind of thought she killed Fred, but they were thrown by the simple fact that she was locked in the damn closet. Like it couldn't be her. She could not do herself that, do that to herself. And there was nobody else there.
00:32:13
Jeff Rogers
Dolly begins dating an attorney who's working on Fred's estate. His name was Herman Shapiro. Dolly gives Herman a diamond watch. But Herman was like, this is the watch that the robber stole of Fred.
00:32:29
Jeff Rogers
Because Herman was working on the estate, right? And that was on the police report of something being stolen. Herman questioned Dolly about this, but she said she actually found it under the cushion on the couch.
00:32:41
Jeff Rogers
Dolly then went to her other lover, Roy. Two things here. She had another lover. So she's dating attorney. She's dating Roy.
00:32:52
Jeff Rogers
And she's fucking Otto living in the attic. She went to her other lover, Roy, and said she found this gun that looks awfully similar to the one used to kill Fred. And if the police saw it, they would think it was her that killed Fred and she asked Roy to get rid of the gun. He did. Like, Roy went out and threw it in a tar pit.
00:33:12
Jeff Rogers
But she had another.25 caliber as well. So she went over to the neighbor's house and told the neighbor the same story and asked him to get rid of that gun. He did sort of but his wife found it and his wife buried it under the rose bush.
00:33:28
Jeff Rogers
The next year, Dolly and, uh,
00:33:32
Jeff Rogers
Roy's relationship fell apart Atticus Otto was still in the attic Atticus we'll call him Atticus Clum went to the police and told them that Dolly this was her boyfriend or her lover right and they broke up he went to the cops and told them that Dolly had given him a diamond watch no sorry this was Herman they're all so confusing I mean there's so many She was given or he was given a diamond watch and he had disposed of the gun are the murder weapon for Dolly.
00:34:01
Jeff Rogers
They searched the area for the gun and they were told. Oh, they found the gun. Actually, it was in the tar pit, but it was in the shallow part of the tar pit. So they actually found the gun. They arrested.
00:34:12
Jeff Rogers
They arrested Dolly. The neighbors heard about this. So they dug up the other gun from under the rose bush and took it into the police station. The gun that Klum told them about had been in the shallow part of the tar pit, so they couldn't test that gun and they couldn't use that gun or determine if it was the gun, right?
00:34:28
Jeff Rogers
The rosebush gun was rusted because it had been under the roses for about 11 months. The cops questioned Dolly, but she did not cave. Good for her. She's a fierce woman. I mean, you've got to be when you're playing that many, a men herman came to visit dolly in jail and while he was there visiting dolly she pushed him over to the side and she said quote he's there herman was like who is where dolly explained that her quote vagabond half-brother is in the house and nobody must know don't be afraid go to the house go to my room
00:35:02
Jeff Rogers
Go to the closet and drum on the walls with your fingernails and then he'll appear. Don't be afraid. ah She said, don't be afraid. She told Herman that Otto was innocent and he would never harm him.
00:35:14
Jeff Rogers
Herman goes to the house the house. He didn't tap on the wall, but he kind of whistled. Otto slides out of the attic and sits on the shelf and says, hello, Herman. Don't be afraid of me.
00:35:26
Jeff Rogers
your face is so fucking priceless right now. And just like that, after about 10 years of living in an attic, Otto finally came out and met another human being. I think that Dolly had probably told Otto if something ever happens, Herman will come over and he's a safe person to be around. Right.
00:35:44
Jeff Rogers
I think they had that conversation. Okay. But Dolly's like holding this. She's like, good. Keep me in jail. Let Otto free. Herman made his way into the attic. He found a riding board, a lamp, buckets of water, an electric foot warmer, canned goods, clothes, a razor, and just a few other things.
00:36:03
Jeff Rogers
Otto was happy to see Herman. They talked and talked. He told Herman about how long he'd been in the attic, about all the sex they had for years. And he even tells Herman about killing Fred. oh He makes Otto leave the house. Herman was like, okay, Otto, you got to go.
00:36:18
Jeff Rogers
And Otto has no idea what to do. Because he's been an attic for 10 years. He's freaked out because he doesn't want to be charged with murder. He's been in an attic for 10 years. So he fled to Canada.
00:36:30
Jeff Rogers
ah In Canada. I love how you just said, ah, like that would be your, like that would be your next move too. What other options do you have? Oh Canada.
00:36:43
Jeff Rogers
Oh, Canada. That makes sense. And while he was in Canada, he changed his name to Walter Klein. Klein was the detective. Remember? He hated Klein. Otto was fucked up though. I mean, he had been living, he had been living in an attic, attic for a really long time, but he managed.
00:37:05
Jeff Rogers
I'm sorry, you're laughing so hard. He even met and married a woman named Matilda while he was living in Canada.
00:37:15
Jeff Rogers
ah can't not laugh, no. Back in Los Angeles, the poor cops were still stuck on the fact that Dolly was locked in the damn closet so they couldn't link her and they couldn't link her to the guns.
00:37:27
Jeff Rogers
Dolly gets really sick while she's in jail so she almost died and you never die in jail so they immediately released her. She didn't die, but Herman, her ex, moved back in with her.
00:37:39
Jeff Rogers
What the fuck? Herman had just found her supposed back-up-bun brother that she is. She has a magic vagina, okay?
00:37:50
Jeff Rogers
Clearly, that is the only... And for three years, Herman and Dolly lived in Los Angeles, and Otto and Matilda lived in Canada. until Otto decided he and his wife should move to Los Angeles.
00:38:03
Jeff Rogers
Oh, God, yo
00:38:06
Jeff Rogers
no. Otto started working as a janitor. And Herman saw Otto one day, and Otto told Herman that he was married, and he didn't want Matilda to know anything about his past, especially the attic or anything involving Dolly.
00:38:21
Jeff Rogers
But then Otto said to Herman, The very thought of living near Dolly made life worth living for me again.
00:38:29
Jeff Rogers
So Dolly hired Otto. Shut up! She hired him to rebuild a cedar closet in her home. For him to live in?
00:38:40
Jeff Rogers
And Otto obliged. There was no more sex, though, at least for Dolly and Otto. As for Dolly, she was apparently having sex with a lot of people around town. That was the rumor. Everything took a toll on Herman.
00:38:53
Jeff Rogers
Dolly and Herman were fighting a lot. And after seven years together, Herman ended the relationship. Then he went to the district attorney and came clean. He told the DA about the man who lived in the attic, the murder, and everything else that he knew.
00:39:05
Jeff Rogers
So in 1930, Otto, who's now about 43, was arrested, and then Dolly was arrested. When Otto was interrogated, he was putting the blame everywhere. He blamed Herman somehow. He also said that he had amnesia and couldn't remember anything before 1923.
00:39:21
Jeff Rogers
It was a circus, and the press ate this story up. Otto explained to the press what had happened. Otto was just concerned that he he didn't want his wife, Matilda, to find out any of this.
00:39:33
Jeff Rogers
The press called this the Batman case after finding out about Otto's cave-like life in the attic. So now he's being called Batman. Right. As for Dolly, once the case reopened, her attorney basically said she didn't give a fuck because she had nothing to hide.
00:39:49
Jeff Rogers
Until the end of the trial of Dolly and Otto, coverage by the press was non-stop. It was a huge story. Dolly wouldn't say a word to investigators about what happened. She was sort of like pleading the fifth. But old Otto, once he got in front of a grand jury, he would not stop talking. He told them everything.
00:40:09
Jeff Rogers
And now it's the trial. Otto pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. The defense said he was controlled by a more older and sophisticated dominant woman. But Otto was in court now looking like a middle-aged man because he's in his 40s.
00:40:24
Jeff Rogers
At one point when Otto testified, he told them of how he would keep the house clean, he would make sure the sheets were washed, and he even told them about how he used to get angry with Dolly for having sex with Fred so he would go on a hunger strike until Dolly would start giving him what he wanted.
00:40:39
Jeff Rogers
dolly was whooping ass boy like you said she had a magical vagina magical vagina and he was allowed to show the jury like he actually they took otto and the jury to the house so they could see the attic he was literally their tour guide at the end of the trial the jury was told by the judge that they could find otto guilty of first degree murder second degree murder manslaughter or not guilty what you think their verdict was not guilty Otto was found guilty of manslaughter. Okay, okay. However, okay the statue of limitations for manslaughter the statute of limitations for manslaughter was seven years.
00:41:17
Jeff Rogers
The crime had been eight years at this point. Way to go, Otto! So Otto was a free man. And then Dolly's trial started. A lot of cops had to be present to keep the press out of the courtroom.
00:41:29
Jeff Rogers
This is madness. Dolly cried on the stand. She talked about how much she loved Fred. Her trial ended in a hung jury. Nine voted for second degree murder, one for manslaughter, and two for not guilty.
00:41:44
Jeff Rogers
All of the women voted for second degree murder. Swear to God, those men were like, I think she's got a magic vagina. They were like, I just need to test it out. We're good. She's good. She didn't do anything. i can feel it from here.
00:41:56
Jeff Rogers
The vibes from that magical vagina. So now Otto and Dolly are both free.
00:42:02
Jeff Rogers
Dolly and Otto never get back together though. oh I kind of thought they would. Dolly did find another lover. of course. Named Ray. They lived together for 30 years and they married in 1961 when Dolly was about 80 years old.
00:42:17
Jeff Rogers
She died two weeks later of cancer. So Ray inherited the millions. Because of the press, Otto was now seen as an immoral sexual deviant. He was judged by the public. So Otto took off. He was never seen again. he went to Canada.
00:42:32
Jeff Rogers
Absolutely. Absolutely. As for Dolly and Fred's house, today it can be found at 858 North Lafayette Park Place in Silver Lake, or Los Angeles. I've looked at it.
00:42:43
Jeff Rogers
there has It is now like um apartments, multi-family dwelling apartments, but none of the exterior has been changed. So is the attic still there? Yes.
00:42:56
Jeff Rogers
And that is the story of Dolly, Fred, and Otto in the attic. Did you love that story? i loved that story. Incredible, right?
00:43:08
Jeff Rogers
i don't know how I feel. i don't know how I feel. I mean, damn, Dolly. Magic vagina. Magic vagina. And listen, listen, I understand that.
00:43:20
Jeff Rogers
I do. I get that.
00:43:22
Jeff Rogers
I would, listen, I don't care how good it is. i would never live in an attic for 10 years. I'm sorry. I wouldn't do it. don't care who you are. It's bananas. but And like when Fred's dead, they move to a different house and he still lives in the attic. Like, come on.
00:43:37
Jeff Rogers
You were. At least a man in the second bedroom. Right? But there's some suggestion that Fred knew all along. There's some suggestion that he knew all along because, I mean, his cigars were going missing.
00:43:51
Jeff Rogers
His house was being cleaned. The food was disappearing. And he heard things coming from the attic. Well, because it was above his bedroom. I kind of think he may have known, but it doesn't matter at this point.
00:44:04
Jeff Rogers
i mean, that was so long ago. you think he knew? I think he did know. But I think Dolly, she would only have it her way. Yeah, that sounds like that. And she would put Fred in his place.
00:44:19
Jeff Rogers
Do you know what i mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see that happening. She would also put Otto in his place. In the attic. God damn, stay in the attic. What the fuck? Ten years. who Nope.
00:44:28
Jeff Rogers
Nope. No. No. I hope she liked it. I loved it. That is it for today. It took us an hour to figure out how to record and not a 45-minute show.
00:44:39
Jeff Rogers
But with as awesome as that show was, I feel like you guys should rate us, give us five stars, review us, share us with your peoples. Tell everyone, tell the whole world about us.
00:44:50
Jeff Rogers
Yes. And Alan, our overqualified, underpaid master publisher extraordinaire. The lovely Ashley, the ultimate and epically unmatched hype queen.
00:45:00
Jeff Rogers
Kelsey, our incomparable swag and merch creator who's in the Galapagos. She is, and she's living her best life with all the aminals. She's a, what was she called? like A Kel?
00:45:11
Jeff Rogers
No. Okay. Kelsois. Kelsois, yeah. Not a torticoles. Okay. i Daniel, thank you, our friendly neighborhood supporter, for always supporting us.
00:45:25
Jeff Rogers
Remember, if you enjoyed it, rate, follow, review and that next time. That was fucking That show hilarious. that's
00:45:42
Jeff Rogers
of it.
00:45:46
Jeff Rogers
And the good thing is it's a 45-minute show. So we kept the hot whatever the top of it.