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52 – The Pizza Crust Murders, Part 2
57 Plays1 month ago
If you haven't heard part one (our previous episode) please check it out.
On May 14, 2015, three members of the Savopoulos family—Savvas, Amy, and their son Philip—as well as their housekeeper, Veralicia Figueroa, were killed at the Savopoulos home in Washington, D.C. The victims were held hostage for 22 hours, starting on May 13. Ten-year-old Philip was tortured in order to coerce $40,000 in cash from the family. The perpetrator(s) restrained them with duct tape before killing them, then set the house on fire. They all sustained blunt force trauma, and Philip was also stabbed.
Sam wraps up the story of the Pizza Crust Murders by telling very convoluted story of the trial and the wild testimonies that concluded the trial.
Visit us on Linktree for the collection of links, Instagram, or email us at jeffandsamshow@gmail.com.
Sam’s sources:
- DC Mansion Murders: Evidence That Helped Convict the Killer – ABC News
- WTOP's American Nightmare Series – Season 1: 22 Hours
- Darron Wint Sentenced for Killing Four People in Northwest Washington Home Invasion – U.S. Department of Justice
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Rebranding
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, Sam. Hi, Jeff. Hello. Hi. How are you?
00:00:24
Speaker
hello hi how are yeah I've been, I'm great, but I've been better. You've been better? been better. What do we want to call this today? The Jeff and Sam show?
00:00:35
Speaker
I think we should. Let's just call it the Jeff and Sam show. And who are you? I'm Jeff. And I'm Sam. Hey. And you can find us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:50
Speaker
When you find us or when you share us, rate us, like us, review us, leave us a few stars, maybe five. Five. Five stars. We need five. We do. Yeah. um And then you can reach out to us on Instagram or Gmail.
00:01:03
Speaker
Instagram is downtherabbitholdepod and Gmail is downtherabbitholdepod at gmail.com. Perfect. Perfect. Is that Is that all the business? That's all the business.
Weekend Apart: New York and Tennessee
00:01:14
Speaker
We decided we're just going to become the Jeff and Sam show.
00:01:17
Speaker
yeah bea yeah nothing's gonna change for you you don't have to resubscribe anything like that it's just gonna be the jeff and sam show because we don't need a rabbit hole me we live in rabbi we live in rabbit holes so it's just jeff and sam that's it that's just us i was away from you for a whole weekend an entire weekend we were not together yeah it was weird and I was in New York and you were in Tennessee.
00:01:47
Speaker
Yeah. Separated by many, many states. Many states. How was Nashville? oh um She puts her drink down.
Nashville Girls Trip Highlights
00:01:58
Speaker
ah There's a lot of things that I can't talk about on this podcast, um but there's a lot of things that I can. And unfortunately, I can't tell you everything because it would take way too long. I mean, it was five day girl trip down in Nashville and it seems like every moment was just, there was something happening. So I'll give you the highlights, I guess. okay um So we took a, normally I'll just drive my truck wherever we go, but um we all wanted to be in one vehicle and we didn't know how much luggage to bring. and
00:02:37
Speaker
you know, so i had the fantastic idea two rent a van. So I rented one of those Ford transit vans, which is like what my friend Naima called the new age rape van.
00:02:53
Speaker
um and it really is when you think about it it's got the one sliding door on one side. um but I mean, it was perfect. We had everything.
00:03:05
Speaker
the girls each had a row to lay down on in the back. Um, and it was great. Uh, How did that drive all the way down to Nashville? Was it good? It was great.
00:03:16
Speaker
um
00:03:19
Speaker
I don't know if you know. Did I show you picture of the van? No, I can imagine it, though. I mean... Okay, so it's tall. Yeah. It's very tall. Yeah. And apparently I just kept repeating that.
00:03:29
Speaker
So it's very tall. Is it tall? I can stand up in front of, inside, completely up. And there's still probably a solid, I can stretch out. Wow. Okay?
00:03:40
Speaker
It was tall. Okay? so Speed limit me going down there is mostly 70 miles an hour. So, you know, we're hauling ass, having a great time. But we so we left Alexandria at 5 o'clock in the morning.
00:03:55
Speaker
We just wanted to get there. So everyone's sleeping. I'm driving.
00:04:02
Speaker
And all of a sudden, on this, like, wide-open highway, There's this gust of wind. And with the truck or the van being so tall, I wasn't used to it. So it jerked to the side. And I went, whoa.
00:04:17
Speaker
Everyone in the back, like their heads popped up. like Are you okay? Are you asleep? you need me to drive? And I was like, nope, not asleep. Wide awake now. Wide awake. Apparently we're running into some wind.
00:04:28
Speaker
So then for probably the last three hours of the trip, I was like death gripping the wheel because the wind was so heavy that I just had to keep – Correcting. That did suck a little bit.
00:04:39
Speaker
um But we survived. um Went to the Thursday night that we got in. We went to a speakeasy true crime bar crawl thing. oh Right up our alley.
00:04:57
Speaker
It was amazing.
00:05:02
Speaker
They were pouring... like little mini big snifters of 120 proof and bourbon and whiskey and so you stayed sober the whole time yeah yeah completely sober didn't have anything remember every moment too yeah definitely definitely um so that kind of that that just that started off our trip actually um and we didn't stop
00:05:31
Speaker
There lot of ah bull riding experiences in our weekend. I saw some really good pictures. Well, it was just, it was a whirlwind, yeah to say the absolute least. And, you know, we're, even though we're all antisocial, when you get us out, we can be the life of the Seriously.
00:05:54
Speaker
So we made a whole bunch of friends. um So I want to give a shout out to Jenny and the rest of her girls from L.A., but definitely not Kate because we don't like Kate.
00:06:06
Speaker
um Why don't we like Kate? Because Kate was supposed to plan the trip and do the whole thing. Then her husband was supposed pick them up from the airport and then Kate bailed.
00:06:17
Speaker
So we don't like Kate. Okay. um But Jenny and the rest of the girls, they were wonderful. We met them at the bar crawl the first night. um And then Jill and her friends from ah Louisiana, they were fantastic. We met them, I think the third night.
00:06:35
Speaker
Um, and then Ariel and Cody, we met the first night as well and spent the whole weekend with them. Basically, they were phenomenal. They were me and you.
00:06:46
Speaker
Okay. And they were phenomenal. I loved every minute of it. That's cool. um We did the drag bus on Saturday night. And the queens on there were unbelievable. I saw the picture of that. it was you were so You look so short standing beside the drag queen to your left. I know. it was amazing.
00:07:06
Speaker
ah Yeah. Oh, God. It was so much fun. And we thought that that was going to be the peak yeah of our weekend. Sunday, we had another thing that we did, which was a tractor party tour bus on Big Bo Cephas, which is the name of the tractor.
00:07:23
Speaker
And so we all went into Wicked hungover. Kayla and I realized that I think we had two sips of water all weekend. All weekend. on Anytime we would drink something, was alcohol or ginger ale. So, then and then On the tractor. i mean, we we're heading over there. We take the Uber and all of us are kind of subdued.
00:07:50
Speaker
Get there and it just blew our minds. I mean, it was it it wasn't better than the drag thing, but it was just as phenomenal. There's so much dancing. We made so many new friends.
00:08:04
Speaker
um But I'm sure you saw the When we weren't out and about and dressed to the nines, we were all in onesies of different variations. You love your onesie. I do love my onesie. You So brought an entire suitcase so all the girls could wear them too. And we did have a blast wearing those.
00:08:24
Speaker
As we're all dying, Kelsey's like, oh, I brought pure caffeine. like, what? She brought a bottle of pure liquid caffeine.
00:08:36
Speaker
Because she makes, in addition to all of our other challenge, she makes like candies and all that kind of stuff. And so she was experimenting with making caffeine gummies. So she has a just pure freaking caffeine. So we thought it was a great idea to take shots of this.
00:08:52
Speaker
Um, she also brought like glitter packets where when you pour it into a liquid, it like makes it sparkle. And it was phenomenal. Didn't change the flavor of the caffeine, which is horrendous.
00:09:05
Speaker
with all What is the flavor of pure caffeine? What is, i don't even know. I've never heard of that.
00:09:12
Speaker
I don't, it's not bitter. It's some like, it doesn't make you make a pucker face. It makes you just go. yeah Okay. You know? Yeah.
00:09:24
Speaker
It's a bitter is not the right word. It's just gross. Gross. Did it, but it, and it lingers. Did it do something to you? Did it? oh yeah Oh yeah. I will show you the video, like the pictures leading up to us taking the shots of caffeine and then Within a few minutes, Kayla's like, no, I don't feel anything. I don't feel good. And then she like walks over the fridge wearing the chameleon onesie.
00:09:45
Speaker
And next thing you know, she's like in the fridge. And she goes, my legs won't stop moving. And then she just starts dancing. She's like, don't know. And I was like, I'm really hot. Is anyone else really hot? it was ah That's awesome. But of all the things that we took shots of that weekend and all of the alcohol we drank, the worst tasting thing was hands down
West Point Graduation Experience
00:10:07
Speaker
that caffeine. God almighty.
00:10:09
Speaker
and we kept doing it we're like we just need to pick me up dance and dance and dance so we did some caffeine before going out each time and uh we're hurting now i only got it like i got a video from you of kayla can i share that one Yeah, it was that the at the restaurant. Kayla and her muffin. Yeah, I got that video. And then apart from that, we did not like even communicate with each other except for... and I had the... Like, if our weekends... Usually we're together on the weekends.
00:10:47
Speaker
Every day of the week we're together. But this past weekend, while you went down to Nashville and went to bed at 4 a.m. m Left the bars at 4 a.m. I... had quite the cool experience myself.
00:11:00
Speaker
So I was invited by family to go to the graduation at West Point. And because my cousin Kara, there you go the Hawaii people in my family. And, you know, so on Friday night, I drove up to West Point on Friday. It was a beautiful drive.
00:11:17
Speaker
Somehow I managed to get there in the same amount of time, but I went the back roads and it was just beautiful. Like no interstate, you know, that's good. And you get into New York and suddenly everybody is like 20 miles per hour faster, a little bit angrier.
00:11:33
Speaker
little bit. Per usual. And I get to the hotel around 5. I get everything done. Like I get my stuff out of the bag and get the clothes ready for Saturday morning because Saturday morning I have to be up at 4 a.m.
00:11:47
Speaker
And, yeah, so I texted you. The only time we texted this weekend, I texted you at 8 p.m. on Friday night. Now, you know I stay up until 1.30. Yes, indeed. um Every time.
00:11:58
Speaker
I'm not an early person to go to bed. I don't like going to bed early. But yeah I had to make myself get into the bed at 8 p.m. I texted you. Didn't expect a response back. But I said, just so you know.
00:12:09
Speaker
I'm crawling in the bed at 8 p.m. because I have to get up at 4 a.m. m And ah went to bed by 9, went to sleep by 9, and I woke at 4 a.m., quick shower, ran out of the hotel, drove down to Carla and Jai's hotel, 30 minutes away, and we get to West Point at 7.30. We're on in the football field, in the stadium.
00:12:34
Speaker
We're the first ones there. So we have to wait until 9.30, which is okay because my family, I haven't seen them, you know? i don't get to see them as much. Wait, why was it so much worse than normal, like, this year?
00:12:45
Speaker
did you just wake up at 4? Because the president was going to be there. And because the president was going to be there, Secret Service has to, even though it is an army base, Secret Service was in control yeah of that place.
00:13:00
Speaker
And um so you have to go through Secret Service at to get into the actual stadium. You go through regular security and Secret Service, right? Yep. The gate guard. normal Normal gate guard, right? And then Secret Service. And...
00:13:13
Speaker
So then the thing starts at 930. And it was it was so cool to watch a West Point graduation, to be invited there. That was just a very cool experience. And of course, like the president recognizes some of the students, right?
00:13:31
Speaker
And one of the students that he recognized, this young man's grandfather was in World War II. His father was in Vietnam. And his dad paid the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq.
00:13:47
Speaker
So this young man got to go up to the microphone and tell his mom, thank you. It was so beautiful. And then... ah let's see, who else? West Point as a whole, they do all the top honors students. like They call out their names. you know and the funniest, most unexpected part was at the end, um they call out the person with the lowest GPA to stand up or to go up on stage to get the diploma. And everybody cheers for this young man who got the lowest GPA.
00:14:19
Speaker
And it's so like a West Point tradition, right? It's not necessarily that... um he's like less academic in any way. i think sometimes they kind of, if they're going to be down that low, try to get that spot.
00:14:35
Speaker
Okay. So anyway, he's called the goat, which is the graduate of academic triumph. um So he was like, people were screaming for him. it was just awesome. it was a good ceremony.
00:14:47
Speaker
Wait, don't you tell me about another one that got called up or called out. Um, Oh, there was a young man that the president recognized that I think it was like track. He was a track star. he You said he beat the record by... Like x amount of minutes. It was an incredible feat for him. you know He blew the record away. And of course, the president called his name...
00:15:10
Speaker
And he came up to the microphone, shook the president's hand, and then he um went back down. And then the president said he asked the people the group of West Point students who got in trouble over the past couple of years to all stand up.
00:15:24
Speaker
And that same young man who beat the record then stood up. And the president was like, ah now you're standing for this? I don't know. There were some fun moments. But I'm really proud of Kara. She graduated...
00:15:38
Speaker
West Point. That is a feat. That is a feat. But then, like, immediately after the graduation, we went right back. I went back to my hotel, took a little nap, and got ready for dinner.
00:15:50
Speaker
Where we had dinner at Dolly's Restaurant. As in Dolly? Dolly? I don't know. But it's called Dolly's Restaurant. It's in Garrison, which is exactly across the river from West Point.
00:16:01
Speaker
okay. So from their balcony, you could look at West Point. Oh. Which kind of gives, like, Harry Potter... Yeah, your text to me was like, it kind of like reminds me of that school from Harry Potter. i Yeah, i can't remember. don't want to talk you anymore.
00:16:13
Speaker
So and we have dinner there. It was a super fun time. um And then after, at the end of dinner, but so we all had lays on because my family's from Hawaii. Like that's part of their tradition, their culture. Every time somebody graduates, the graduate gets all these lays on top of their head and around their neck.
00:16:30
Speaker
So for dinner, we had lays around our neck. And at the end of dinner, We just decided that everybody in the restaurant needed a lay and they were so They were so delightful and so happy to get this. It was such a fun moment.
00:16:45
Speaker
That's so cool. Yeah, I found the waiter, our own waiter. I found him, and I was like, you need this, my friend. You laid the waiter. he did He was a wonderful guy, so he got laid. There you go. Mm-hmm.
00:16:57
Speaker
Laid by Jeff. That was it. That's an honor. Yeah, it was cool. It was cool. Dolly's Restaurant, they were so good. That is good. And the food, amazing. um
00:17:09
Speaker
so Again, whirlwind of food for us. i think Did we send you the pictures of the foot-long corn dogs? There's a restaurant that serves foot-long corn dogs. So, of course, we all had to get them.
00:17:21
Speaker
Do you know how much meat and corn batter it exists in a foot-long corn dog? Did you eat the whole thing? Absolutely not. Absolutely i didn't even halfway through.
00:17:33
Speaker
Absolutely not. My girl Kayla finished hers, though. course she did. Of course she did. Ain't no quitter. Ain't no quitter. um Yeah, so that. And then we go on these trips, and I like to cook. So like we had a grill out one night, and um then I made manicotti one night. And then I showed you the text message from Happy that I got at 4 o'clock in the morning on, guess, Saturday.
00:17:57
Speaker
It's just crazy that while you were going to bed 4, 5 a.m., five a m Oh wait, I'm sorry. This was 2.55 a.m. Sunday morning. So we had obviously been out Saturday night.
00:18:08
Speaker
I still was not home, but I get this text message that is, it's actually one, two, three, it's five text messages. bitch, this manicotti.
00:18:20
Speaker
I told every Uber driver that this is what I'm excited to come home to and it's freaking worth it. And then there's a very long message of just thank yous. And then I'm legit sitting in my beaver costume, eating this manicotti on a paper plate and I have never been so fucking happy.
00:18:36
Speaker
Then she sends me a selfie of her eating it and goes, I'm on my fourth serving.
00:18:44
Speaker
Oh my god. That's so funny. So I got that text message while I'm still out and about, and I was like, obviously, widely intoxicated. So I'm like, I can't really figure out what this is.
00:18:56
Speaker
ah got home and there was just manicotti residue everywhere. i think i don't even don't even... It was such a such a whirlwind. But we all survived, somehow.
00:19:08
Speaker
We're going to be recovering for the next month, but... Well, I'm staying up late again, then we're going to bed at 8 o'clock for me. Okay, well. That was crazy. And waking up at 4 a.m., not my thing. But to go to the West Point graduation, worth it. Worth it. Once once in a lifetime, right? Absolutely worth it. Once in a lifetime.
00:19:22
Speaker
Once in a lifetime. Unless you have others that go, I guess. Well, that was the second time I've been to West Point, and it is so beautiful. And one of the guys that was with us and our group of people graduated West Point last year. And I was thinking while we were driving around on West Point, what does it look like in the snow? Because I bet you it is beautiful.
00:19:41
Speaker
And i said, hey, to the guy that graduated last year, because he was there for five years, I said, what does this look like in the snow? And he said, so gray. Gray. is the grayest place.
00:19:53
Speaker
you can ah I mean, it is all gray. All the buildings are gray. And it's known as the long gray line. All the people that have graduated from West Point, it's the long gray line of people. ah And so everything is gray.
00:20:05
Speaker
But it's beautiful. Yeah. But it probably does look pretty like with white with fresh snow, not after it's been trampled, but fresh snow probably laying on that is gorgeous. Cool experience.
Future Podcast Plans and Story Overlap
00:20:16
Speaker
But like you said, spectrum spectrums, spectrums weekends. um so two ends of a spectrum. I think you just got the the vibe from both of us.
00:20:27
Speaker
um And we're here again. We're here and we're queer and we're ready to this thing. We're here. We're queer. What are you drinking? I'm drinking a poppy grape soda. Ooh, that sounds refreshing. I'm drinking... not sponsored.
00:20:45
Speaker
I'm drinking Soleil blood orange. Ooh.
00:20:53
Speaker
So today
00:20:59
Speaker
Today's another weird one for us, right? Because last week was part one of this miniseries. Cheers, Chris. um And today we're going to finish up the story. um But also know this, since we've rambled for a long time, whatever.
00:21:16
Speaker
You ramble? I didn't ramble. I never ramble. No, we never ramble. um For June, we've got some super incredible...
00:21:27
Speaker
Why? What's June? It's Pride Month. Yay! Gay Pride Month. So we're going to come at you with a lot of... Gayness. I've got some queer history I'm going to be doing next week.
00:21:40
Speaker
um Super excited to cover this guy. And like we say, Sam, the best part about this show, other than it's fun, is we get to do research on a person that we're interested in.
00:21:54
Speaker
and we get to one learn weird details. And like this person that I'm doing, I've kind of felt like a I've gotten to know him a little bit. You know what I mean? Yeah. And his contribution to history was I mean, spectacular, to say the least.
00:22:10
Speaker
This one man, and yeah. so We might have to talk about this because I'm doing a story on a man that contributed to history. What part of history? A war.
00:22:22
Speaker
Is it the second one? Yeah. Uh-oh. Science, math, kind of. I'm eight pages in. Is it a science and math kind of guy?
00:22:33
Speaker
Damn it. Is that for real? Uh-huh. This is how much we don't know each other's story. This is how much we don't know each other's story. um Oh, no. That's hilarious. Okay.
00:22:44
Speaker
Well, I've got some backups. Okay. Because I don't. Not yet. i have some backups. That's hilarious. i think that we first well I think this is our first time ever coming up with the same story.
The Pizza Crest Murders Recap
00:22:54
Speaker
So that's the one I'm planning on doing next week. You guys probably already figured this shit out.
00:22:58
Speaker
i mean. Whatever. But he's amazing. Is yours still alive? No. Okay. How long ago did you die? Okay. I got story.
00:23:09
Speaker
nineteen sixty s
00:23:13
Speaker
okay i got a new story
00:23:18
Speaker
Okay. Okay. So ah that goes to our our topic of normally on this show, on your Thursday episodes, you're going to get a story from Jeff and a story from me.
00:23:28
Speaker
And they are in no way related. um It's just something that he wanted to talk about and share with the world. it's something I wanted to talk about and share with the world. And sometimes they will be complete polar opposites. Sometimes they might be along the same path of like historical or funny or both of them might be dark. But typically we come into this recording session and...
00:23:53
Speaker
We say, all right, you ready? And then he starts telling the story and then I tell mine and that's how it goes. so this is the first time we've ever talked about it. done that. That's crazy. That's wild. Okay.
00:24:05
Speaker
So Sam, you did a story last week, which a lot of people told me they really enjoyed. Perfect. right Okay. and So you'll have to help me with this because it was a lot. Okay. so It was Okay.
00:24:16
Speaker
This is the story of the Pizza Cross murders. And we have the Savapolis family, right? They're Sava, Amy, and Phillip. Phillip was 10 years old. yes Sava and Amy are the parents.
00:24:30
Speaker
And Vera was the housekeeper yeahp who did not speak English. Correct. People loved them in town. Loved them. They lived on Embassy Row in D.C. They're millionaires. They're well-liked. They're down-to-earth people. Yeah.
00:24:43
Speaker
Down-to-earth. Everyone loved them. And they were murdered violently after kind of being held hostage, right? For 22 hours. For 22 hours, they were held hostage. They were murdered violently. But not only that, Peter's... Philip.
00:25:03
Speaker
but I'm sorry. Philip's bedroom was the origin of the fire, right? His body, yeah. His body was the origin of the fire. And they believed... correct philip was burned alive yeah that's horrible 10 years old and 10 years old so then the um emily from the atf comes in and she saved the pizza crust that had the bite in it yep and the dna from that pizza crust Led them to Darren went.
00:25:36
Speaker
Yep. Right? So Darren, they're hot on the trails of Darren. He went like missing from Facebook for 24 hours or something, right? Yep. And that was suspicious.
00:25:49
Speaker
And Darren had worked for the Savopolis family many years ago and was fired. And that's what I know. Yeah. um And so what you heard last week was the the investigation part of that where because it was 2015, you know, phones were a thing, tracking was a thing, all that kind
Darren Wint Trial and Defense
00:26:17
Speaker
of stuff. So when they found the bodies, identified them, et cetera, they started trying to piece together what happened.
00:26:25
Speaker
during those 24 hours, and they used cell phone records of Amy, Vera, and Savas.
00:26:38
Speaker
And then, once they identified Darren Wint as the suspect, based on that pizza crust, they started looking to him, talked to his family, found out that he was always on social media, he was always on his phone, and then they found some discrepancies basically they said well where did he go for 24 hours why did this overly active social person just suddenly disappear and it happens to coincide with the hours that amy philip savas and vera are held hostage in their own home and during that period of time the text messages and the phone calls
00:27:20
Speaker
Although everyone said that at the time they didn't seem flustered or scared or anything like that. They sounded normal. um The text messages were weird, you know, and now that we look at it from this context, Sava's asking for his sister to get him quick cash, you know, all that kind of stuff. Yeah.
00:27:43
Speaker
realizing that you know you keep mentioning the $40,000 is a very specific number, right? But the whole house is a mansion. There's money. There's jewels. There's everything. so Also, like for me, my biggest question from last week, and honestly, if you want to hear the whole you should hear the whole story from last week.
00:27:59
Speaker
It's last episode that we did. sam did a really good job at telling the first part of the story. So what we just did was a recap. Listen to the first show for the whole thing, right?
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah. um But the thing that got to me was the violence of it. um Brutal. The brutal, horrible. Depravity. Depravity of it all. Yeah. Well, and then you, so we ended when the police went to go talk to Darren. went You know, they they weren't ready to arrest him yet, but they needed to figure out why his DNA was there.
00:28:34
Speaker
They went to go talk to him. He was gone. He had hopped on a bus and gone up to New York to visit his girlfriend. The final moments of last week ended with him and his fiance laying in their apartment.
00:28:51
Speaker
All of a sudden, his face pops up on the news as related to the D.C. mansion murders, the Pizza Crest murders.
00:28:59
Speaker
They, him and his fiancee, are like, we should go. They flee their apartment moments before and NYPD busts in. The next day, he says, okay, I'm going back to D.C. I'll turn myself in.
00:29:13
Speaker
Right? so that's where we ended last week. Okay. He did get arrested um that next day on May 21st. But this week, we are going to talk about...
00:29:28
Speaker
Yes, the arrest is going to come into play, but we're going to hear a lot of different people's vantage points on what was going on. What was their part in this story?
00:29:43
Speaker
So the trial did not begin until a few years later. It began with opening statements three years after the murders on September 2018. And you said that this is – the crime happened on May 13th and 14th of – 2015.
00:29:59
Speaker
Okay. okay So the trial starts years later. Okay. From the beginning, Wint's attorneys declared that the trial was so hope high profile and horrible that people were rushing to judgment.
00:30:13
Speaker
And, I mean, it was. It was extremely high profile. a wealthy, loved family murdered in their peaceful, beautiful neighborhood in D.C., right? Right. This guy's face is on the news.
00:30:24
Speaker
Everybody's tuned in. So Jeffrey Stein, one of his lawyers, said, quote, when something this tragic happens, we all have the urge to hold someone responsible.
00:30:37
Speaker
Darren Wint is not responsible for these crimes, end quote. They claimed the crimes had been committed by Darren's two younger brothers, who then tricked Darren into going with them into the house and then abandoned him and left him to take the fall.
00:30:57
Speaker
Sixty witnesses were called for the prosecution. Vanessa, Darren's fiancee, girlfriend. Damn, 60 witnesses? 60. Wow. Six zero.
00:31:08
Speaker
Just for the prosecution. Okay. So Vanessa ends up taking a stand against Darren because although she had initially fled with him and had willingly, willingly taken the money he had given her and then spent it, even though she knew it was stolen from the murder victims, she struck a deal for immunity and testified against him. 170 items were tested for DNA.
00:31:31
Speaker
Thousands of hairs were gathered and tested against the victims. Emily had the ATF agent. Her report was 2,500 pages long.
00:31:42
Speaker
Damn. Damn. that so That's a lot. There were five damning bits of evidence. One, there was a construction a construction vest found on the driver's side floor of the burnt-out Porsche.
00:31:58
Speaker
On the neck and tag area, the DNA was from two contributors. There were very, very small, minute traces of Savas' DNA, and then a good bit of Darren Wintz.
00:32:11
Speaker
There was a one in 40 million chance that it was from someone else. We've talked about that statement before, right? They don't say... They belong to. you know Exactly. So there is a one in 40 million chance that the DNA they found was not Darren Wins.
00:32:30
Speaker
ah Pieces two and three. um There were two hairs, both without a root. There was one that was found inside a construction helmet in the garage and one that was found on the bloody comforter in bedroom one, which is where the adults were held.
00:32:48
Speaker
So a bit about the the key is the root part, right? So this is how the brothers were brought into the mix. This is how his attorneys tried to swing it. With the hairs not having roots, the defense argued that it could couldn't absolutely be ruled as Darren's.
00:33:06
Speaker
So there's mitochondrial DNA, which is not unique to you as an individual because you share it with whatever siblings you share a mother with. All right? And one of his brothers shared a mother with him.
00:33:21
Speaker
And then there's nuclear DNA, which is from the root, root which is unique to one individual or identical twins. The third piece of evidence was trace DNA from a knife that was found propping open a window in the basement of the Savopolis house.
Testimonies and Defense Strategies
00:33:39
Speaker
There was touch DNA, which is a very minimal amount. They didn't find blood, and it wasn't one of the murder weapons, but there was a 1 in 90 billion chance that this DNA was not Darren's.
00:33:55
Speaker
And the final piece, and the reason it's called the Pizza Cross murders, was the DNA found on both the bite part and the touch part, where you hold a piece of pizza, which was the match from CODIS, which is a one in 10 quintillion chance that it was not Darren Wins.
00:34:17
Speaker
So after weeks of evidence and testimony, Stefan, one of his brothers, takes the stand on October 2nd, 2018. twenty eighteen He was a witness for the prosecution prosecution, but not only did he have to testify against his brother, he had to defend himself against the accusations. Mm-hmm.
00:34:36
Speaker
He was a very put-together guy. He came off as smart, respectful, and a little bit geeky, as his mother described him. The prosecution introduced him and questioned him in such a way that it provided background for him and his relationship with Darren.
00:34:52
Speaker
At the time of the murders, he had been working for PCM Construction based out of Beltsville, Maryland. He had been with them for many years and had risen through the ranks. He became a manager.
00:35:04
Speaker
He attempted to help Darren as often as he could, so he hired him in that spring. Unfortunately for everybody, Darren was terminated. So he's lost another job, right? So yeah Stefan is... Trying to help.
00:35:20
Speaker
Trying to help. Yeah. um So he even provided a home for Darren when he had gotten himself kicked out of his sister's house.
00:35:31
Speaker
Wow. He admitted that in the spring of 2015, he wasn't really sure of the dates because it had been three years. He offered painting work to Darren and their other brother, Darrell. It was supposed to be painting the dorms on the GW University campus right in D.C.
00:35:47
Speaker
So Darren and Stefan shared a mother so their mitochondrial DNA would match. The defense tried to blame him for the hair in the bedroom. As evidence for his alibi, the prosecution introduced his time cards from the two days in question.
00:36:03
Speaker
On May 13th, his recorded hours were 6.30 a.m. to 4.30 p.m. Then on the 14th, he worked 6 a.m. to midnight. The sheets were handwritten, so the defense attorney, Judy Pipe, attacked that, said that he could have forged them, etc.
00:36:19
Speaker
So, although they tried to cover him in suspicion, the defense attorney was unsuccessful. The prosecution had to defend Stefan, even though he wasn't the one on trial.
00:36:31
Speaker
So they provided more background that spoke to the type of person that Darren was. They weren't allowed to introduce certain pieces of evidence about his violent criminal record. They only wanted relevant to this case.
00:36:43
Speaker
But they had family testimony about his interactions, his temper, and his willingness to throw his but brother under the bus. A few months before the mansion murders, Darren got pulled over in his van for not having registered tags.
00:36:58
Speaker
He was also driving without a valid license, so he used Stefan's name and date of birth to keep him out of trouble. Shortly after this incident, he got in a petty fight with his younger sister that turned violent.
00:37:11
Speaker
He was kicked out of the house. He left a voicemail for Vanessa on her Facebook that night. It said, quote, this ain't over yet.
00:37:21
Speaker
When I got back to the house, I'm going to keep kill each and every fucking one of them. If I got to go, they're going to go too. This was Darren saying this to his sister.
00:37:33
Speaker
Dang. That's horrible. Not great, right? Doesn't seem like a good. Doesn't seem good, no. Doesn't seem good. But again, they're trying to paint. So they had the voicemail. and Okay, so that was played.
00:37:46
Speaker
So they couldn't admit that into evidence. They had it, but they couldn't admit it into evidence. So they had to use other testimonies about his... Behavior towards his sister. Yeah, his niss.
00:37:57
Speaker
Yeah, his niss. Yeah, i don't know. His niss. His niss. Stefan's testimony closed. It appeared that Judy Pipe had failed in her plan to cast blame and suspicion off of Darren and into him.
00:38:13
Speaker
Shocking the nation, a few weeks later, Darren took the stand in his own defense. Almost a a full month into his trial. I love it when they take the stand.
00:38:27
Speaker
ah Just because it's usually a train wreck. Talk about train wrecks. So this is, I mean...
00:38:37
Speaker
Normally, defense attorneys don't want their defendants to take the stand. Because they're going to just look guiltier. Regardless of what. I mean, even innocent people. It's hard to sit on a stand. It's hard to be grilled by someone who is trying their damnedest to prove that you killed someone, right? So it's rare that that happens.
00:38:56
Speaker
Sam, if you were put on a stand for something bad and you didn't do it, in fact, you had an alibi, you would look like.
00:39:04
Speaker
you would get so uncomfortable and look like i didn't do it. And you would kind of look guilty just because we all do that. Absolutely. It's a thing that we do. Absolutely. The more you try not to look guilty, the guiltier you look.
00:39:16
Speaker
I tell you the truth all the time and you think I'm lying. And then I don't know how to, I'm like, well, shit. Now I think I'm lying too. Yeah. Yeah, would not handle it. They would convince yourself that you murdered. That did it. You're right. Yeah, yeah. No, I could have a perfectly solid alibi. Like I was actively doing CPR on someone. It's on camera somewhere. And I would still be like, you know what? You're right.
00:39:37
Speaker
I did do it. I did do it. 17 states away, it was me. I did it. I was in Nashville. But you know what? I did it. did it. Uh-huh. God, there's just a lot of photo evidence of me being in Nashville. Anyway.
00:39:49
Speaker
So Darren testified after the medical examiner had just finished her horrific testimony. And last week we heard the summary of what the medical examiner had found. Yeah. Again, very extensive, but last week talked about just the key points in those bodies.
00:40:07
Speaker
He wove an extremely intricate story that began on May 2015. twenty fifteen He said he visited his brother Darrell and was offered a painting job.
00:40:18
Speaker
Darren claimed that the job sounded like it was, quote, off the books, but he accepted it and found himself waking early on May 13th to meet him near Stefan's work in PG County.
00:40:31
Speaker
hey Then he claimed that Darrell said he wasn't needed for the job anymore, but they did need to borrow his minivan. They drove to some random home in Silver Spring that Darren didn't know.
00:40:44
Speaker
Darrell went into the house for a few minutes, came back out, and they left. He asked his brother to drop him off at some guy named Ed's house. The name had not yet been heard, so everybody was intrigued.
00:40:57
Speaker
If he supposedly had this alibi the whole time, why was this the first anybody was hearing about it? If he had somebody to account for his whereabouts during any of that period of time, why had he spent years in jail waiting to che ah to go to trial without allowing the police to investigate this dude named Ed?
00:41:14
Speaker
So who's Ed? Who is Ed? His explanation for his two days of silent, empty Facebook account... was that when Darrell dropped him off, he had just left his phone in the van, and then Darrell drove away, right?
00:41:28
Speaker
So he's at Ed's house, has no phone. He said he was stuck there because he couldn't get in touch with his brothers. They claimed that they were going to come pick him back up at 5 p.m., but they never showed up.
00:41:42
Speaker
He started to drink with Ed, and as he waited, he started to feel a little bit sick, and then he just passed out. He woke up, quote, sometime after 10 on May 14th, went outside and Darrell pulled up in a blue convertible Porsche 911 Turbo.
00:42:02
Speaker
He explained that little note that they had found, the 24th and K, because Darrell had handed him it back his phone when he asked where was his van, Darrell said, it's a 24th and K. So he types it into his phone.
00:42:17
Speaker
They leave Ed's house in the Porsche. Darren was hungover and starving. Darrell told him that he had more work to do, so they drove to a house on Woodland Drive in D.C. Darrell reportedly parked right in front of the house, walked right up, and then through the front door.
00:42:34
Speaker
As Darren went and sat in the fancy sitting area, Darrell went upstairs and returned with a box of cold Domino's pizza. He ate part of a pepperoni piece and left the crust.
00:42:45
Speaker
During the story that he was telling, he commented that Darrell was, at the time, wearing thick construction gloves when he handed him the pizza, but he didn't ask about it.
00:42:58
Speaker
He walked out of the house to get his phone, because, again, he had left it in the Porsche, and a black drawstring bag that he had forgotten in the car. Apparently, Darrell called out to him and told him, hey, when you come back in, come back in through the garage.
00:43:12
Speaker
So at a few minutes after 12, he walked around the side of the house and slipped under the right-sided door that was already open, and then it closed behind him. the When he entered the garage, Darrell met him inside and handed him a construction hat and a greenish contractor vest, told him to put them on.
00:43:33
Speaker
He said it was because they would be stealing from the home and they didn't want anyone to stand out.
00:43:40
Speaker
ah so you're going to put the green vest on. A bright green, like everyone knows what we're talking about, right? Like a construction vest and a construction hat. We're going to disguise ourselves. In a home that's not ah under construction in D.C.
00:43:52
Speaker
Okay. and So Darrell says, you got to put this on. And willingly, Darren just is like, oh, yeah, this sounds like a great idea. Great. put these on, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. um So he puts them on.
00:44:05
Speaker
And then he says, Darrell, you know, I don't i don't want and don't want to be a part of this anymore. I want to go home. Darrell refused to take him to his van. So Darren, ah Darren got so angry that he just ripped off the hard hat and threw it across the garage and then stormed out.
00:44:21
Speaker
Just leaves. Darren just left. Through the closed door. Okay. Like the garage door is closed. So he storms out in a huff of anger through a door that's closed. Okay. He walks around the corner and keeps walking, looking for a bus stop.
00:44:34
Speaker
And then Darrell drives up beside him in the Porsche and told him, yeah, fine. I'll take you to the van. But we just have to make one stop first. So apparently while they're driving, Darrell again changes his mind and refuses to take him to his van.
00:44:47
Speaker
But because they had offered to pay Darren for borrowing the van, he hands him $300 in cash and two white iPhones.
00:44:59
Speaker
By this time, they were at an abandoned lot in PG County. In anger again, Darren is fed up with the day, right? He rips off the construction vest and throws it right at Darrell.
00:45:11
Speaker
Happens to land on the floorboards of the Porsche that he's driving. He storms off again and Darrell just drives away. So he's in an abandoned lot in PG County. So then he's alone in the lot and he goes, well, crap, I don't have the keys to my van.
00:45:28
Speaker
So he has to flag down a tow truck driver and then direct him to a lot on 24th and K, where Darrell had told him he had left the van. So last week, we talked about this truck driver.
00:45:42
Speaker
We had text messages and phone calls from somebody who he had picked up there and driven back. He admitted to using the driver's cell phone because he wanted to get in touch with his brother to get the keys.
00:45:53
Speaker
He also admitted he had the van towed back to the lot in PG County. So drive down, pick up the van, tow it back to this abandoned lot instead of to his parents' house where he's living. It's just such a story.
00:46:09
Speaker
He said that he planned to wait in the lot until Darrell ended up back in the area because he said he was coming back. Reportedly, he was looking for a cigarette, found the keys in the glove box of the van. Mm-hmm.
00:46:22
Speaker
Hobson drives back to his dad's house and he argues with his family because he's been missing for 27, 28 hours at this point. they He didn't contact them, just didn't come home.
00:46:35
Speaker
So they argue. When he's at home, he caught some news stories about a fire in D.C. and was shocked, just mortified, right? So he starts searching things on his phone.
00:46:48
Speaker
Again, last week we talked about the searches that he had come up with. I feel like he is just covering his tracks so well with this story. He's hitting every single point. I mean, perfectly.
00:47:02
Speaker
Perfectly. He's explained why he was in the house. He's explained why his DNA is on the pizza crust. He's explained why his hair was on the vest and everything. He did everything but the violent crimes, apparently.
00:47:14
Speaker
Everything. Yeah. He was just minding his own business. Doing his own damn He drinking with Ed. mean, who doesn't like a drink with Ed? I mean, honestly, driftwood, that sounds like a good time. Right? That's cool.
00:47:26
Speaker
Right. Okay. So he goes home, starts these searches on his phone, purely because he's he's like, oh my gosh, wow, that just sounds terrible. So he's searching for that fire.
00:47:38
Speaker
Is that the home that I robbed earlier? So he admitted to speaking to Godfrey, who was his sister's ex-boyfriend, about burning his van Because he was worried that Darrell and Stefan had used it in their crimes, and that's why he did all the Google searches and wanted to get rid of the van.
00:47:59
Speaker
However, he testified that he didn't actually go through with it, and the van was still parked outside his dad's house when he went to sleep around midnight. Huh. Luckily enough, somebody there decided to steal his van oh and burn it for him. Damn.
00:48:16
Speaker
They burned it just for him. They did. That was very nice of him. Serendipitous. He had an excuse or explanation for every single argument or piece of evidence against him.
00:48:28
Speaker
And it fit like a perfect puzzle. mean, honest to god it's pretty ingenious of him. He had just finished listening to weeks and weeks and weeks of the prosecutor's evidence against him.
00:48:40
Speaker
And he was able to hit every point to respond to it. So prosecutor Laura Bach began her cross-examination, which lasted two days. So this murder suspect, who just wove this beautiful little tale,
00:48:59
Speaker
Two days he has to go up against Laura Bach, who is a bulldog. I would love to see this. She ripped him and his story apart. And you can hear court testimony. You can hear the cross-examination. Uh-huh.
00:49:18
Speaker
um Yikes. I said, i i would admit to anything. I'd choose me. You would be guilty as hell regardless. I wouldn't even put up a fight. I'd like, I'm so sorry.
00:49:29
Speaker
Please stop. Stop yelling at me. What was it I did again? I'll never do it again. just write it down and I'll sign it. So the cross-examination was intense. She would ask questions for background and clarification.
00:49:43
Speaker
She would repeat certain parts of his testimony. and then she would get him to comment on like seemingly random things and then draw him back into the testimony. So she was all over the place.
00:49:55
Speaker
I bet, though, this is what I think is brilliant about watching people do this. She seems all over the place. Yeah. She's got a point. She has point. She's taking you on a ride. And that's what everyone said about her when they were when they were reviewing this. They were like...
00:50:08
Speaker
she does everything for a reason. So when she says something or asks a question that seems like it is off the wall, it's coming back and it's coming back to bite him in the ass. It may be 45 minutes later. Yeah. What do you think it's like to remember what you're talking about 45 minutes ago? No clue. I'm sorry. What did you just say? that um That's why I'm sitting here with a pen, Sam, taking notes. I love it.
00:50:30
Speaker
So she drew attention to some of his finer points in the timeline. Okay. Again, because he has his own timeline. We have the murder, tribe that the the kidnapping, the hostage, everything. We have our own, right?
00:50:43
Speaker
He has his. She honed in on the time that Darrell supposedly picked Darren up from Ed's sometime after 10 a.m. She then has Darren admitting that he was taking notes throughout the previous few weeks of testimony and accused him of tailoring his story to match the details that he had heard.
00:51:02
Speaker
She says, you're telling me that you weren't sitting over there at that table taking notes all these weeks. You're telling me that you didn't do any of that. He's like, well, no, I mean, I was, but just just so I knew.
00:51:16
Speaker
So he denied it and then he said he did, but it had nothing to do with the story. His attorney objected. um The judge comes up and says, you know, hey, hi, Darren has a constitutional right to hear witnesses and their testimonies.
00:51:32
Speaker
this We can't really allow her to say this thing. But that's one of the things I think about trials that gets me, right? There's a jury of people listening to a story, right?
00:51:45
Speaker
And you and I are arguing on the opposite sides of the case. And I say, well, Jeff had a bloody glove in his car and then someone objects, but you've already heard it all. And then the judge strikes that, but it's in there, but but somebody has heard it. yeah Of course.
00:52:05
Speaker
So yeah, that's one of those things where as soon as it said, it's out there, right? You can't take it back. Can't take it back. And as all you can strike it from a record, but can't take of their brains.
00:52:17
Speaker
Yeah, that's it's so interesting to me. Right? Yeah. So I always think, what did they expect the jury to do? Let me just pull this out right quick. Can you unhear that? can you let Can we take it back? Can you unhear it?
00:52:28
Speaker
Right? I mean, when we're recording this, sometimes I'm like, damn, can I unsay that? and But you can't. No, you can't. Well, yeah, no. Anyway. um So his story starts becoming more convoluted.
00:52:40
Speaker
And she just continues to hammer him. I bet she's having fun. Oh, she's probably having a blast. she's getting She's getting them justice, you know? Yeah, absolutely. So she brought up the details about Darrell wearing gloves while handing him the pizza. Because he made ah an exact comment about that at that moment.
00:52:56
Speaker
He said, oh yeah, he was wearing gloves. I thought it was weird, but I didn't ask him. Okay. So... He never... she She said... Well, he picked you up in a car.
00:53:07
Speaker
he walks in the door. and he's walking around the house. And then you're with him later. Was he wearing gloves at any other point during this? Because you said that he walked right up to the front door, opened the door, and walked in.
00:53:18
Speaker
But his fingerprints were nowhere to be found. He doesn't have an explanation. Says he can't really remember. um She also noted that Darren had said in his story...
00:53:33
Speaker
that he heard the dogs in the Savopolis house while he was there, even though that he had previously testified that he hadn't heard anything. She then asked him how he was able to, again, storm out of a closed garage door after throwing the construction hat.
00:53:49
Speaker
Darren told her, well, I mean, he just opened the door for me. She kind of harped on that where she says, like... You're having an argument. He wants you to help him steal. And then he just says, oh, no, you're right. Go ahead, honey.
00:54:04
Speaker
Like, just walk out. Yeah. So, again, all of these things, they're not really sharp points that she's making, but she's making them heard. Yeah. And that's all it takes. Uh-huh.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah. And if he was as livid as he claimed he was to storm out, throw a helmet, storm out, et cetera, why would Darrell just calmly – or why would he just get back into the Porsche when Darrell walks or drives up beside him?
00:54:33
Speaker
Mm-hmm. He's storming away because his brother's stealing stuff, right? So Darrell pulls up and he goes, no, it's fine. Just come on in the car. Just get in. And he goes, fine. Okay, we'll get in. We're we're good, yeah. It's fine. yeah I was just really pissed at you, but i'm not anymore. We're good.
00:54:47
Speaker
Yeah. So he He's giving his brother yet another opportunity to screw him over because over the course of this 24-hour period, he has made a story that seems like Darrell has li lied to him at every point. Right.
00:55:03
Speaker
I'll pick you up. No, I don't need you. I need you to help me. No, I don't need you. I need your van. okay i don't know where your van is. Here's your van. um I'm going to pay you. oh here's this, all that kind of stuff. So, again, he's getting back in the Porsche.
00:55:15
Speaker
They're driving away, and he's just trusting him. Mm-hmm. She dissected the story about the van and the tow truck. She flat out said that it didn't make any sense that he had gone back to that lot in PG to wait for Darrell, who again had lied so many times and changed the plan so frequently.
00:55:32
Speaker
Why would he believe that he was just coming back to this empty lot? So why hadn't Darren gone back to his dad's house? She pointed out that the van was unregistered and noted that a driver who was in possession, possibly, of stolen goods or evidence of a crime likely wouldn't want to get pulled over for a simple moving violation, as had happened to him a few months before the murders.
00:55:55
Speaker
His responses start to jumble together. He becomes less secure in his answers. She points out that the industrial lot where his van had mysteriously turned up burned just one hour after after asking Godfrey to help him was less than a block away from one of his previous jobs where he had worked for eight years.
00:56:17
Speaker
She brings up his search for the quote, how to beat a lie detector and got him to admit that his first instinct when he thought his brothers had been responsible for the heinous crimes had been to lie to the police and So you've just found out that your brothers violently murdered four people, stole from them, and then set their house on fire.
00:56:42
Speaker
And the only thing you can think to do is lie to the cops? Right. Why? If you were at Ed's house, why? She acknowledged his peak physical fitness and got him to admit that he wouldn't have had any trouble overpowering any of the victims. Right.
00:56:59
Speaker
Would you be able to take care of a 10-year-old boy? Absolutely. What about an older housekeeper? Yeah, that wouldn't be a problem. What about Savas?
00:57:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he was a fit guy, but I'm fitter. And Amy? Well, she's just a lady, right? So he admits that he could overpower all of them.
00:57:21
Speaker
Defense attorney objects kind of at this point. It's like, what's the point of bringing this up? But again, the jury has heard this. She did this on purpose. Every moment. my God, that's brilliant on her part.
00:57:32
Speaker
Yep. um He also admitted that, yes, he had lied repeatedly to multiple people about what was going on because, you know, he's asking to burn the van and it's the hit and run and then it's the I think it's them doing it kind of thing.
00:57:47
Speaker
So she closes her cross by wrapping up the facts that he couldn't argue. He had been at 3201 Woodland Drive that day. His DNA was in the hard hat, on the vest, and the pizza.
00:58:01
Speaker
But why was his hair in the murder bedroom? On a random knife found in the basement. His story didn't account for those things. As she continued to tear his story apart, she addressed all of his points, and then she dropped a bomb on the courtroom that had the recorders losing their minds.
00:58:22
Speaker
so What is this? Ed was dead and had been that way for a year. So conveniently, this man, who he claims is his alibi.
00:58:35
Speaker
Can't respond. Even though he knew that he was at Ed's for two years before Ed died while he was awaiting trial. Oh. Now that he bring up brings up the name, they can't call him.
00:58:48
Speaker
Convenient. Mm-hmm. Her goal was to poke holes in the smooth testimony and to shake him. She succeeded. Nobody but Darren and his testimony attorneys knew why he took the stand or who chose or whose choice it had been.
00:59:06
Speaker
It's a well-known fact that taking the stand on your own defense in a murder trial is brutal, even when you're not guilty. His testimony provided the jurors with his version of explanations for a few details that had maybe been missing from the prosecution's initial case.
00:59:21
Speaker
But after the cross-examination, it also drew attention to some very questionable and almost unbelievable aspects of his own version of events. On redirect, his attorney tried to smooth out some of the ruffles.
00:59:36
Speaker
Bach had done some damage, so Judy Pipe wanted to fix that. Unfortunately, it didn't go as well as she had hoped. There was an obvious disconnect between the two, and it showed in his poor responses.
00:59:52
Speaker
She gave up helping him respond and simply wrapped everything up oo by personally clarifying some of the vague statements and covering his contradictory details.
01:00:06
Speaker
Regardless of what Darren told the courtroom, his brothers were never suspected, and the prosecution had no doubt they were not involved. Even though Darrell had been with Darren during his arrest and then was taken into custody, there was no question about his innocence at all, because they could verify alibis and the whereabouts of both brothers throughout the entire time in question.
01:00:31
Speaker
Judy Pipe, the lead public defender, attempted to force the focus onto those teeny tiny gaps or details that still remained in the prosecution's case. She attempted to create doubt and raise questions about those missing pieces or inconsistencies. so One of these inconsistencies was what Margaret, the family friend, had said she saw Amy wearing when she was out walking the neighborhood.
01:00:55
Speaker
The outfit she was found in after the fire was the same as the outfit she had been wearing on camera at the doctor's appointment earlier in the day. It was very different than Margaret's description.
01:01:06
Speaker
The defense made a big deal about this, which, why would she be in a different outfit that day? She was like, what was she doing, right? Right. But a key point, right?
01:01:19
Speaker
um Over this weekend, for instance, We woke up in the morning. We put on one outfit. We did one thing. And then we went back. We changed. Absolutely. Did a different thing. And then we got back to the house. Maybe we had on the same clothes that we were wearing earlier that morning.
01:01:34
Speaker
You know? Like, it happens. Yeah. It's not absurd. No. If I had a lunch in the middle of the day, I wouldn't be wearing my onesie to that, right? Nope. We're totally different things Saturday to the dinner than I wore.
01:01:47
Speaker
Totally. And then, yeah. So was. It's the same day. Right. So...
01:01:54
Speaker
Margaret stands by her testimony that she will recall that moment forever because of the significance of it being the last time she saw Amy. She recognized her instantly and easily.
01:02:05
Speaker
She had no doubt of the outfit and the time. She acknowledged that if the situation had been different, she might not have recalled it so clearly, but because it was the very last time she ever saw her and then she died,
01:02:18
Speaker
ah She she said it was seared in her mind. And that happens, right? It does. It absolutely happens. Random facts. That last time you see anybody, if they die in a certain way, then you will always remember that. Exactly. Always. Yep.
01:02:34
Speaker
The defense so also attempted to redirect suspicion to Jordan Wallace. Savas' assistant. the police had previously been suspicious of him as well because he was a relatively new employee he had quickly gained sovace's trust he was initially the only known person near the house he bragged about his rich boss on social media he knew the house and the keys well he had his own expensive dreams And he had taken a picture of the money, sent a text to his girlfriend, and then deleted it.
01:03:11
Speaker
He had called the Savopolises and texted them repeatedly when he heard of the fire. Some people say that he was frantic, and they believed that he was behaving suspiciously about this. Right.
01:03:24
Speaker
During his police interview, he appeared anxious and slightly defensive. The police were extremely interested in the money drop. Again, he's the only person at the house, right? Yeah. They couldn't believe his story because at the time, he had backtracked a couple times and then was retelling like what happened that morning.
01:03:43
Speaker
At the trial, Jordan explained that he was, in fact, anxious and scared during the interview because he felt they were treating him like a suspect. He would be anxious and scared during a police interview. Oh, yeah. I think that's normal. That's normal, right? Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:56
Speaker
The transcripts from the interview with the police prove that they were, in fact, treating him like a suspect and quite aggressively. mean, you see, we've watched how many crime shows, right? Where they're just hammering these suspects in the the creepy interrogation room.
01:04:11
Speaker
But this kid just found out that the kid that he had grown fond of, his boss who he was fond of, and her wife who he was fond of, had been brutally murdered. So I'm a mess. You're going to be a mess. This whole thing is a mess, right?
01:04:24
Speaker
Hmm.
01:04:28
Speaker
At the time they interviewed him, they hadn't received the call logs that explained that Sava set everything up. And they hadn't spoken to Ted Chase, the CFO.
01:04:40
Speaker
So during the interview... They're like, oh, yeah, you did this. Let me get him nailed to the wall on this. But then they get all the evidence in they're like oh, never mind. Sorry, guy. You're good. You're good. Sorry. So they dropped any suspicion on him.
01:04:52
Speaker
But in the trial, she tried to pull it back to that. And she was like, well, yeah, the police don't believe you did it, but I think you're still sketchy. Because, again, her job was just cede enough reasonable doubt. So she could kind of buckshot this all over the place give so many suspects and so many weird things, right? That's what she was trying to do.
01:05:14
Speaker
And he can be sketchy. That's fine. Didn't do it. Yeah. Right? There were pings from Jordan's phone that tracked his whereabouts through the entire event over the course of two days and eyewitness testimony that proved he was innocent.
01:05:31
Speaker
Eventually, the trial was like, everyone realized that she was just shooting in the dark here. So... The jury's not convinced. No one's convinced. And she realizes that her argument's falling short.
01:05:45
Speaker
Another loose end in the investigation was the point of entry for the intruder. Initially, they had found a single broken panel in a set of French doors and a boot print near the handle, as if someone might have kicked it in, right?
01:06:01
Speaker
They attempted to match it to all the firefighters who had been on scene that day. They didn't find a match. However, that, again, during the investigation, had been squashed when a firefighter came forward and said that he had been out injured on the day they were doing the print matching.
01:06:19
Speaker
They found his boots. They matched it to the scene. He just hadn't been there the first day they were doing it. So again, right how did this guy get in? They don't know. So at this point, there's a lot of speculation.
01:06:33
Speaker
um All of the victims have died, so you can't ask anybody, right? Nobody knows exactly how he got in. Nobody knows exactly what happened during those hours, okay?
01:06:45
Speaker
So Pipe, again, she's trying to cling to all of the speculation to maintain maintain just enough of that reasonable ah doubt that Darren can just get off, right? So in regards to the point of entry,
01:06:58
Speaker
The following wasn't included in the trial because it would have just been speculation. But while the prosecutors were showing photos of to the jurors of the scenes at the house, Nellie noted something abnormal. And Nellie had been working for the Savopoulos family for 20 years. So she knew them. and who was Nellie?
01:07:17
Speaker
Nellie's another one of the housekeepers, but she's the one that introduced Vera. Okay. And she wasn't there that day. She's the one that got the voicemail and the phone and the text message and that kind of thing. um She was so used to the house and she knew exactly how everything ran and she could recognize things that others might not have picked up on.
01:07:35
Speaker
So she's seeing this and she's coming up with something in her head. So she talks to reporters about it after the fact because she can't bring it up. it It's not relevant, right? It's just speculation.
01:07:46
Speaker
Okay. So a picture of the empty trash can in the kitchen intrigued her. She never... So it was it was the last task of the day for Vera to empty the trash.
01:08:00
Speaker
She takes the bag out of the kitchen bin. She walks it out the door. And then she takes it to the trash cans, okay, in the outside. So it's possible that when Vera took out the trash and let the dogs out into the backyard, Wint could have entered the home by slipping in through that open garage door.
01:08:18
Speaker
The dogs were in the backyard, so he was able to go undetected. Okay.
01:08:26
Speaker
Dan, split moment. It's really bad. But definitely though. Yeah. However, the dogs did end up back inside the house at some point because the wallpaper guy, Donald Spence, said that on his 911 call, he could hear dogs barking in the house.
01:08:44
Speaker
Okay. So how could have an intruder been in the house when the dogs were known for being protective and untrusting of strangers? They never never would have followed commands from somebody they didn't know.
01:08:56
Speaker
So again, speculation at this point. Nellie thinks that went forced his way into the house was in the house. And then when Amy came home, he forced her to bring the dogs back in from outside so they didn't draw attention and lock them in the basement.
01:09:12
Speaker
On the doggy door over the basement door, because the basement had like a ah solid enough door that they had a doggy door and the dogs would come and go. It had been duct taped closed. So the dogs were down in the basement.
01:09:25
Speaker
The window had been propped open with a knife that had Darren's DNA on it.
01:09:34
Speaker
So, because this is important to me, the dogs survived in case anyone was wondering. worry. ah They went to stay or live with a former dog trainer and who know him well and it was fine. Okay.
01:09:46
Speaker
I was going ask about that earlier. No, don't worry. I wouldn't do a story with dead dogs. Please. ah can't do that.
01:09:54
Speaker
fine The lead prosecutor, Laura Bach reminded the jurors that not everything had to fit perfectly to prove how or why, or all the details of the crime.
01:10:05
Speaker
They only had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he had committed these murders. Doesn't matter anything else. So what there's other evidence, right? Right.
01:10:16
Speaker
And none of the random little bits are strong enough to exonerate him, you know? Right. The day closing arguments were set to begin during what was called the rebuttal phase of the trial, the prosecution finally called Darrell Wint to the stand. Damn.
01:10:39
Speaker
So up to this point, they've heard from Stefan. They've heard from 60 other witnesses. But his brother, who was with him during the arrest, who they were trying to pin a lot of this on, had not been heard from.
01:10:54
Speaker
And the defense didn't call him either.
01:10:58
Speaker
who So he goes on stand. They begin questioning him in the same way they started with Stefan so many weeks before. Mm-hmm. Bach wants to provide a background on Darrell and his relationship with Darren.
01:11:12
Speaker
The two men shared a father, not a mother, so mitochondrial DNA is not the same. But they didn't grow up together. Darrell had been about 14 by the time Darren and the other siblings immigrated from Guyana.
01:11:23
Speaker
By 2015, his personal relationship was good with all of his siblings, even though he didn't see them very often. When asked his whereabouts on the days in question, he stated that he couldn't remember specifics because to him, it wasn't an important week that stuck out in his mind. Makes sense.
01:11:41
Speaker
Do where you were three years ago? Florida. No, I'm just kidding. No clue. Pipe jumped on this and continued to try and cast doubt on him in the same way she had done with Stefan.
01:11:53
Speaker
Her only goal was to make Darrell look just bad enough that the jury had doubts. So Stefan had taken the trial weeks before. he looked put together. He's wearing a little sweater vest and a nice set of pants.
01:12:06
Speaker
He's answering questions willingly and all that kind of stuff. When Darrell took the stand, he showed up and... Work clothes. You know, he's got ah he's got a construction vest hanging out of his back pocket and work gloves hanging out his back pocket. He's wearing a hoodies. hes He looks more the type for quote Judy Pipe. And that was in quotes, right? And so he's she just kind of really hammers in on this. Like, Stefan looks like a good boy and Darrell looks like a bad guy. So let's hold on to that. So...
01:12:39
Speaker
so Knowing that they would have to defend Darrow after seeing what happened with Stefan, the prosecution came prepared this time with evidence, digital footprints, and witnesses.
01:12:53
Speaker
Darrow had a cell phone plan at the time of the crimes that did allow him to use his phone off of Wi-Fi and be pinged by cell towers. Which, again, Darren's did not.
01:13:06
Speaker
So he could only he could only be tracked...
01:13:12
Speaker
Okay, so they've got his cell phone records. They could easily ping Darrell's location. His pings showed that he was nowhere near, nowhere near the mansion during those two days.
01:13:26
Speaker
Darrell's version of the events was very different than Darren's. And unlike Darren, they had the evidence, hard evidence, to back up Darrell's story.
01:13:40
Speaker
His story is as follows. And again, it's this vantage point thing. So we're going back to May 13th, 2015. He did say that a he did not meet up with Darren on the 13th, which directly contradicts Darren's story.
01:13:56
Speaker
At 6.04 a.m., his phone pinged near Stefan's work because he had shown up for a legitimate job opportunity. Because the job was, in fact, on the books, Darrell was there to provide an official application and do an interview, which he did. Mm-hmm. Later that day, again...
01:14:20
Speaker
With a ping at 1024 supporting his claim, he went to a friend named Anthony's house to watch the premiere of a music video that Anthony had produced. A few hours later, as was his routine at the time, he would have gone to pick up his son from school and then either taken him to the library or to play basketball.
01:14:42
Speaker
His cell phone pinged on a tower near the middle school in Tacoma Park, Maryland at 2.44
01:14:50
Speaker
His movements were tracked and accounted for for the rest of the night and into the early hours of the next morning. He was, in fact, in either Tacoma Park or Silver Spring in Maryland the entire time.
01:15:03
Speaker
On the afternoon of the 14th, around the time the fire started, his cell phone pinged off a tower in a neighborhood where one of his friends lived and where he frequently spent time while he and his buddy watched their young children together.
01:15:19
Speaker
With some irony, another important piece of evidence that was introduced was a Domino's pizza delivery receipt sent to the friend's house, ordered and paid for by Durell.
01:15:33
Speaker
The timestamp was 1216
01:15:38
Speaker
12, 16 p.m. is around the time that Darren said that he was going back into the Woodland house after getting his phone backpack out of the car. And Darrell told him, hey, come on through the garage instead.
01:15:50
Speaker
Okay. So at this time, Darrell is known to be where?
Walmart Footage and Suspicion
01:15:56
Speaker
In Tacoma Park, Maryland. In Tacoma Park, Maryland. And it's proven. Yep. Traced on a cell phone.
01:16:02
Speaker
Cell phone, time stamps for delivery. Pizza receipt. Yep. Okay. Eyewitness testimony of his friend and their kids. He did admit to meeting up with Darren later that evening.
01:16:14
Speaker
He went to their dad's house and they hung out for a little bit. Then he said he had to go to Walmart to get supplies for the new job that he started the next day. Darren invited himself to go along.
01:16:26
Speaker
He said that he just needed to make a stop first because his van had run out of gas. He needed to get some and then go fill it up. So at 1023 p.m., the Walmart security footage showed Darrell and Darren walking into the store.
01:16:44
Speaker
For a pair of brothers who had, according to Darren's story, spent the better part of 24 hours fighting and angry and lying to each other, they looked casual and comfortable.
01:16:55
Speaker
Darren is even sporting a smile, which when you think about it now is entirely creepy because he had just committed horrendous crimes.
01:17:10
Speaker
So disturbing. So he's seen on the camera smiling. They appear to be getting along well. They're buds. They're walking into Walmart together, right? Darrell's helping his older brother. he's just He just lets them him. Darren's acting normal.
01:17:23
Speaker
Smiling, acting normal. Okay. Wow. So when they leave, Darrell had expected to go to the van and fill it up. So he wasn't surprised when Darren started giving him directions to follow.
01:17:37
Speaker
They drove to an old industrial park that Darrell recognized as being near where Darren had previously worked. They stopped in a weird dark spot and Darren got out of the car care carrying the gas can and a plastic bag with something unknown in it.
01:17:56
Speaker
He returned a few minutes later without the bag or the can and the van was nowhere to be seen. As he drove away, Darrell saw smoke wafting from where Darren had disappeared in the dark.
01:18:09
Speaker
He
Darrell's Dilemma and Decision
01:18:10
Speaker
recalled that he knew something wasn't right and he felt weird about the situation.
01:18:16
Speaker
The next day, Darren tried calling Darrell more than two dozen times. Darrell says that he intentionally ignored these calls because he had still felt uneasy about whatever had happened the night before. Right.
01:18:34
Speaker
As expected, Judy Pipe tried attacking Durell's story. She brought up his, quote, criminal history. Again, trying to paint him as this bad guy and this, like, dirty criminal.
01:18:47
Speaker
His criminal history included a whopping one charge for assault 11 years before in a bar fight and minor charges for possession of marijuana.
01:18:58
Speaker
Okay, that's it. Wow. So, a hardened criminal. you know, I'm surprised they even let that into the... They wouldn't let Darren's. Right. Yeah. But she tried to paint him like this criminal mastermind.
01:19:11
Speaker
She claimed that Darrell planned everything out so well that he gave his phone to a friend so that it would be tracked across state lines when he was in fact in D.C. committing the crimes. Right.
01:19:27
Speaker
Her attack on him and his story was chaotic, but not in the same way that Laura Box was. It wasn't this organized chaos thing. She was just trying to hammer him, and it just wasn't hitting right. Right.
01:19:40
Speaker
So he remained calm and collected throughout the entire thing. Daryl did. Daryl, yeah. He knew he was innocent. He was like, i don't know, lady. Listen, I'm not i'm not that guy. Mm-hmm.
01:19:52
Speaker
So Laura Bach followed up with an additional witness for his alibi. Again, so Darren's on trial here, but they're calling witnesses to alibi his brothers, right? So this this is a very convoluted case.
01:20:06
Speaker
So his friend Anthony testified that Darrell was in fact at his home watching the music video on the 13th of May. He remembered the day very well because again, for him, it was a big deal.
01:20:18
Speaker
That was his video that he had produced that finally premiered that day. So he remembers it all. He remembers who was there, how long they were there, et cetera. So the story continues. On May 21st, Darrell had spent the day painting the George Washington University dorms on campus in D.C.
01:20:36
Speaker
His phone had been blowing up all day. He finally looks at it. Darren has just been identified as a suspect in the mansion murders the night before. There was a nationwide manhunt going on.
01:20:49
Speaker
When Darrell received a call from Darren himself, he answered. He told his big brother to come home and turn himself in. Darren agreed, but said he needed Darrell's help getting a lawyer first.
01:21:04
Speaker
So we know Darren caught a cab back from d c or back from New York to head to D.C. The brothers met on Darrell's lunch break on the 21st.
01:21:15
Speaker
Darren told him that he had found a lawyer and had a lot of cash, but the lawyer only accepted money orders. Unfortunately, obviously, Darren couldn't go get them. And Darrell had lost his license somewhere, so he couldn't go get them.
01:21:31
Speaker
And the maximum amount of money each order could be was $1,000. So they needed to find some help so that they could get all this all these different money orders from different places.
01:21:43
Speaker
Again, Darrell is just trying to help his brother get a lawyer and then turn himself in. That's the plan, right? Right. So he involved his friend Garnett to help get a hotel where they kind of just put Darren while they did all this and then go pick him up and come back, right?
01:22:01
Speaker
So they called two of their trustworthy female friends to help split up and go to 10 different locations to connect collect what they needed. He did admit on the stand that he never asked Darren if he had done what he was accused of because, quote, I just didn't want to know. Absolutely. End quote.
01:22:18
Speaker
That's his big brother. Yeah. He was close with them. Like, they had come when he was 14 years old and he was just jazzed to have siblings. They had good relationships, et cetera.
01:22:30
Speaker
Also, don't tell me. you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to know. As long as you're turning yourself in, i will help you get that lawyer. Yep. Don't tell me. You have a right to a lawyer. I will help you with that. Don't tell me what you have or haven't done. Yeah.
01:22:45
Speaker
Because the truth is, I don't want to know that you're a horrible person. yeah Because to me, you're still my big brother, right?
01:22:53
Speaker
To my big brothers, if you ever do something like this, I will turn you in myself. i'm Just saying. Anyway, um so he's running all over the place. He's trying to help his brother. He starts feeling confused and a little bit overwhelmed, right?
01:23:08
Speaker
So he felt like he was getting caught up in something real bad. So he goes to his cousin's house to ask for advice. He told him everything. He's like, I got Darren stashed at a hotel room. I'm finding him money orders.
01:23:22
Speaker
i don't I don't know what's going on, but I got to get him this money. I got to get him this lawyer and then get him there, right? His cousin's like, the fuck? No. He goes, listen, Darrell, we're getting you out of this.
01:23:34
Speaker
I'm going to help you, but what we're going to do first is we're going to pick up Darren, send him to the police station, and then we'll deal with the rest. But I'm not helping you hide him, right? The pair leave his
Darren's Arrest and Conviction
01:23:45
Speaker
house and go meet up with the other people.
01:23:48
Speaker
The group just keeps getting bigger, right? So they've got the two girls. They've got Garnett. They've got their cousin, Darrell, Darren, the whole shebang. Darrell says he went into the hotel room.
01:24:02
Speaker
He and Darren agreed to turn himself in without the lawyer, and they head back out. Darrell rode in his cousin's work truck with him. The girls, Garnett and Darren are in a sedan following behind.
01:24:17
Speaker
On their drive out of Maryland into D.C., Darrell made a phone call to the lead investigator on the case. He told him everything and had asked how could he turn Darren in.
01:24:31
Speaker
He was given an address and a phone number, which he wrote down on a scrap of paper. As they crossed into D.C., they were surrounded by over 30 police vehicles and pinned down.
01:24:42
Speaker
Wow. The girls later recalled that they were terrified, and it was like a scene from a movie. There were more guns than they could count, and they had the little red dot lights all over them.
01:24:53
Speaker
Shit. During this time... Statements claim that Darren just kept saying, they're just here for me. They're just here for me. You're fine. They're here for me. So Durell and the others were taken into custody with Darren, but all were released before the next morning started, except for Darren.
01:25:14
Speaker
His testimony was wrapped up and completed with a simple statement by Darrell regarding his feelings. He simply stated, um'm disappointed In the situation um'm disappointed in my brother and i'm embarrassed for him in the end, Pipe, the defense attorney, was unsuccessful, and Laura Bach succeeded.
01:25:36
Speaker
The five key pieces of evidence that nailed Wint were not gathered easily, but they were effective. At least a dozen crime scene investigators, fingerprint analysts, and forensic biologists testified against him.
01:25:50
Speaker
In all, the prosecution called what we know as 61 witnesses. The trial lasted six weeks. On October 25th, 2018, after three days of jury deliberation, Darren Wint was found guilty on 20 felony counts.
01:26:08
Speaker
He received convictions on first-degree murder, kidnapping, burglary, extortion, arson, and theft. He was sentenced to four life sentences,
01:26:19
Speaker
At the time, the death penalty was not an option in the district. The Honorable Judge McKenna declared his conduct, quote, incomprehensible and agreed that the crimes were, quote, heinous, atrocious, and cruel.
01:26:35
Speaker
Years later,
Aftermath and Reflection
01:26:36
Speaker
the scene of the car fire still showed signs of scorched asphalt. The property and the historic home, which used to be beautifully landscaped, surrounded by a stunning brick wall with intricate iron gates, was now abandoned.
01:26:52
Speaker
The house was sold off to a real estate developer a few months after the murders, with the windows still blown out or boarded up and the crime scene tape still across the doors. For years, the door the house and the land remained...
01:27:06
Speaker
remained and reminded people of the horrors of those few days and the wonderful lives that were cut short. In 2017, the house was torn down, the previously gorgeous corner lot that had been the full of life and love now completely empty and devoid of life.
01:27:23
Speaker
The photos and videos are horrific. The remains of the homes and the crimes were terrible, and the case was made of nightmares. In December 2020, Wint appealed his conviction, claiming the judge improperly blocked his lawyers from calling any additional witnesses.
01:27:40
Speaker
In December 2022, the Court of Appeals largely affirmed his conviction and denied a new trial. Damn. and Poor family.
01:27:53
Speaker
ah I mean, dang. And the girls. Like, they had two teenage daughters that were at boarding school who... Suddenly, they're without a family. Without a family. Their little brother. How scared was Phillip?
01:28:06
Speaker
That was horrible. Yeah. It was horrible. It was horrible. And... no Somebody commented that it was um interesting to hear this.
01:28:18
Speaker
You tell this story because they remember it happening they're from here. I remember it happening. I did not live here, so I don't know any of this. But they said they knew like the basics of the story, but they enjoyed hearing you tell the details of the story. Yeah.
01:28:32
Speaker
It was definitely – I think it was just – it was wild because –
01:28:40
Speaker
there were so many vantage points that were covered in all of the media afterwards, you know, because there's so many moving pieces in any murder. Right. And just hearing the stories that Darren came up with and then having Darrell basically be like, no, I didn't do that. Like plain and simple. You have my information. Like i didn't do it. And I'm kind of pissed at my brother.
01:29:09
Speaker
is blaming this on me, but damn. Wow. Good job. Thanks. I'll tell you guys, Sam spent hours and hours and days doing that story right there. ah Typing up that story. And that was a very good job.
01:29:25
Speaker
Thank you. That was an interesting case. I want to never talk again. Well, you know what? It's raining and cold outside, so it's going to be a quiet night. I'm going to watch scary movies. Yeah, it's something I'm going do.
01:29:38
Speaker
are you going to do? Probably go to sleep. Perfect. So don't forget, like, give us the five star. People have started doing that now. They tell me they do that. Oh, look at that. Yes. Give us five stars, please.
01:29:50
Speaker
We beg you. We're asking you nicely. We're demanding it of you. Whatever. Demanding. um What else do we have? Anything else? Oh. Gay Pride next month. We're coming at you with some super cool stories for that.
01:30:03
Speaker
We are indeed. Yeah, I don't honestly, my brain's turning off. You don't remember what? I had something to say, but my brain's gone. That's okay. um Alan, our overqualified, underpaid master publisher extraordinaire.
01:30:17
Speaker
Ashley, the ultimate, epically unmatched hype queen editor. Kelsey, you are incomparable. And you're a swag and merch creator. And Daniel, our sweet Daniel, we adore you. You are friendly neighborhood supporter.
01:30:32
Speaker
And together, they're our first and forever fans. Bye, everybody.