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54 – NightinGAY (aka Florence Nightingale)
38 Plays22 days ago
This week, Sam shares the story of Florence Nightingale—yes, that Florence Nightingale. The legendary nurse, statistician, and social reformer wasn't just ahead of her time in the medical world… she was also just a little bit gay. Celebrate Pride with us as we shed light on the softer, lesser-known parts of her incredible story. 🏳️🌈🩺
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Transcript
Opening Banter and Pride Month
00:00:01
Jeff Rogers
Hello, Sam. Hi, Jeffrey.
00:00:24
Jeff Rogers
What? I wasn't dancing in that intro. No, you weren't. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not a fan. I wasn't dancing. I'm disappointed. Welcome to the Jeff and Sam show. It is a Jeff and Sam show.
00:00:35
Jeff Rogers
I'm Jeff. And I'm Sam. Hey, Sam. Hi. Feels like we never left.
00:00:42
Jeff Rogers
How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I can't complain. I mean, you could complain, but you don't. But I'm not gonna because it's Pride Month. everybody Everybody's living their best life. Absolutely. is Pride Month. And we are recording this a week in advance.
00:01:01
Jeff Rogers
So I have a big weekend that when you guys listen to this, I will have just had. But ah can't talk about it because it hasn't happened yet. So how did it not go?
00:01:12
Jeff Rogers
I assume that it didn't go swimmingly. Or it did. it did. Is that a double negative? I don't know. Or a double positive. It went.
00:01:22
Jeff Rogers
You had fun. I bet you had fun. A time was had. ah As in Nashville. time was had. Let's hope it doesn't. It happened. Please no. I bet it will be. Please no. Please no.
00:01:34
Jeff Rogers
This is the week after World Pride. So Sam will have stories to tell us next week. Yeah. Yeah. If we're still talking about it, because next week we're going to be laying by a pool.
00:01:48
Jeff Rogers
So we're technically not going to be here, but we will have a show coming at you. Yeah. But it'll be from states
Show Promotion and Pride Event Highlights
00:01:55
Jeff Rogers
away. from states away we will have it pre-recorded and like i said um last week this is one of those shows where we're just doing one story you know normally we do the two stories that aren't related that's not the case this week also you can find us on apple spotify amazon high heart radio um give us five stars rate and review us please rate and review us
00:02:19
Jeff Rogers
Give us five stars. Yeah. Kind of amazing. We need five stars. We do. um We did change the show name in case didn't catch it last week. so we are now the Jeff and Sam show. So you can find us on Instagram at the Jeff and Sam show.
00:02:32
Jeff Rogers
you can also go to our website, the Jeff and Sam show.com. Just Jeff and Sam show.com. Oh, just Jeff and Sam show. Just Jeff, just Jack.
00:02:45
Jeff Rogers
Just Jeff. just death jeffandsamsher.com um yeah give us five stars you owe us that we're giving you so much we're talking to you in your ear holes okay if you're playing golf if you're running fucking marathon right now mowing the lawn people have been sitting on the pot yeah mowing their lawn taking showers one man was in australia plowing the field in southern australia listening to our show We're literally plowing the field, right? Don't stop plowing your field to give us five stars. That's the only exception. Yeah. Also, be careful if you're you know cooking and using sharp knives or on your lawnmower. Don't don't get distracted.
00:03:25
Jeff Rogers
Put them down. Then rate and review our show. Yeah. And if you're driving, you know pull over on the side the road review us. If you're sitting on the pot, go ahead and hit the five stars. Do it. You got nothing else going on. You just, you know.
00:03:37
Jeff Rogers
So give us five stars. Exactly. Okay, enough said. Enough said. What's up? Nothing, nothing, nothing. Like I said, i big weekend, big weekend. It was it was Pride weekend in D.C., so see me next week. I feel liket feel like you're going to be recovering.
00:03:53
Jeff Rogers
I feel like days I still haven't recovered from Nashville, oh yeah so it's going be a rough month. Well, ah what are you drinking today, Eric?
00:04:06
Jeff Rogers
I am drinking another poppy soda. Same. Soleil at Blood Orange, baby. Woo! Gotta love it. Yes. hu I may have already poured mine into my glass. So you know what?
00:04:21
Jeff Rogers
We're still gonna... Cheers, queers. Happy Pride Month to all you lovely queer people.
Introducing Florence Nightingale
00:04:30
Jeff Rogers
okay Want to get into it?
00:04:32
Jeff Rogers
Yeah, so last week you told us this story that some people might know him, some people might not know him. um There's this energy of historical peoples who were part of the queer community who were maybe not, we didn't know either. We didn't know about them because they were brushed under the rug because nobody wants to know about queers, right?
00:04:56
Jeff Rogers
or um the one we're going to tell today, i know you know about her. Um, but I just found out recently that she is part of the queer community.
00:05:09
Jeff Rogers
Um, I'm so interested. Um, do I know the person, right? Yep. Okay. Very well. Very well. I'm gonna take a guess. Oh, no, because I don't have any kind of like starting point for this enigma.
00:05:24
Jeff Rogers
Okay. You're an enigma. i don't know any other words in the enigma. You want to kind of give me a guess? Like give me like something to. Context.
00:05:35
Jeff Rogers
Yeah, context. Okay. So the story of a legend. Okay. Every year on May 12th, we celebrate International Nurses Day in honor of her.
00:05:47
Jeff Rogers
Is it Florence? it's Shut the fuck up. Is it Florence Nightingale? Yep. She was a pioneer in our field. We learn about her throughout nursing school. Every nurse learns about her because she is the mother of nursing, right?
00:06:03
Jeff Rogers
During her time in charge of the nursing of the British and Allied soldiers in Turkey during the Crimean War, she was known as the lady with the lamp. She's known as a no-nonsense feminist icon, a tender motherly figure, and the founder of modern-day nursing.
00:06:21
Jeff Rogers
She was Florence Nightingale. Oh, that is so interesting. yeah Surprise! Surprise! Through her personal journals and memoirs and her letters that were found, it has become known that she was also a lesbian and or probably asexual because of the time period in which she lived.
00:06:44
Jeff Rogers
um Her writings definitely expressed that she had lesbian attractions, but sex was not ah talked about or open yeah during the time. So I think there was an aspect of it where she chose maybe to not have physical relationships as much because
00:07:15
Jeff Rogers
she didn't want it to reflect on her. ah Well, this is interesting. I never knew this. Nobody did. Yeah. And it's hard because she's really historical. She was born in 1820, you know, so there wasn't a whole lot there. There's nothing concrete except for her writings.
00:07:39
Jeff Rogers
And I actually own her two memoirs, which are extraordinary. I bought them many, many years ago and they're old and they're, I'll show them to you.
00:07:53
Jeff Rogers
is this Does this have anything to do with one of the books you bought at Gaze the Word? No. No? Not this one also just shout out to Gaze the Word. Shout out to Gaze the Word. If you guys go to London or in London, ah buy a book from them.
00:08:06
Jeff Rogers
Yeah. Book, bookmark, pins. Yeah. Gaze the Word. Iconic, iconic store. So anyway. Yeah. Sorry. And we were there.
00:08:17
Jeff Rogers
And we were there. Okay, so Florence. She was born the second of two daughters to the wealthy William Edward and Frances Nightingale. Her family lived comfortably with two homes.
00:08:31
Jeff Rogers
Being born into a wealthy wealthy family, she was given many opportunities in education that others were not, and her father actually encouraged education.
Florence's Nursing Journey and Impact
00:08:42
Jeff Rogers
Florence, named after her birthplace, was an incredibly intelligent child, and her father took a special interest in her education.
00:08:50
Jeff Rogers
She was able to read and write in French, German, Italian, Greek, and Latin from a young age. She excelled in mathematics, specifically statistics, a talent that followed her throughout her life, which that's kind of the gist of what we get from nursing school is that She did something to help us wash our hands, right?
00:09:12
Jeff Rogers
Yep. She was notoriously dissatisfied with the traditional female role of home management. At the many social gatherings that were a part of her upbringing, because they were rich, she was notably, quote, awkward and gravitated more towards intellect than social niceties.
00:09:32
Jeff Rogers
She engaged with her father in political and social discourse while focusing on the works of the great philosophers, which, again, very odd for the time. A woman was supposed to be this feminist or this feminine creature. you know just Honestly, that's what history has painted her as. They have.
00:09:52
Jeff Rogers
sit Sit there, look pretty, be the wealthy daughter of a wealthy man. and Marry well. Marry well. Yeah. have babies and do the thing. She said, ah right off.
00:10:03
Jeff Rogers
ah She did. So at the time, nursing was a profession. What nursing was at the time was something that drunks and prostitutes would do. You know, they were, they would take care of people, but it wasn't really nursing as we know it. So she was raised in a liberal Unitarian family, odd for the time.
00:10:25
Jeff Rogers
At the age of 16, she experienced a call from god and decided that nursing would fulfill that call to reduce human suffering. Her family found it wildly inappropriate and unsuitable for her, because she wasn't a drunk or a prostitute.
00:10:39
Jeff Rogers
Her family expected her to be courted and wed. She was never outwardly opposed to courting. One man actually courted her for nine years. But she made it known that she had no interest in marriage.
00:10:52
Jeff Rogers
I mean, nine years, you've got to give it up. Stop. Take a hint, my man. Ain't happening, George. Take a hint. Jeez. Yeah. So her call from God was considered her out to avoid marriage.
00:11:06
Jeff Rogers
Because that was one of the very few things that women could... claim or do or i mean you know if it was your real thing was your real thing right yeah to avoid marrying she found a way around her family's objections and enrolled in the institution of protestant deaconesses at kaiserswerth in germany her push for nursing was fueled after meeting elizabeth blackwell who was the first woman to become a doctor in the united states In 1953, she separated herself from her family influence. 1853.
00:11:41
Jeff Rogers
Yes. yes Yeah. Okay. She wasn't alive in 1953. Girl, I was like, wow, we just jumped ahead. How'd we get here? She separated her.
00:11:52
Jeff Rogers
Thanks. We did the time hop. I did just wondering, making sure you're paying attention. She became the superintendent of the institution for sick, gentle women in distressed circumstances in London. right Honestly, the names that they had for these places, like just shorten it, just yeah anything less. Yeah. um By which time she had already published literature in Germany.
00:12:18
Jeff Rogers
She excelled as an administrator by improving nursing care, working conditions, and hospital efficiency. So she's my nightmare, truly. like She's nothing I want to be. And that was one of the points that they made was we think of her as the founder of nursing, right?
00:12:35
Jeff Rogers
But she didn't do nursing. She didn't do a whole lot of what we know as nursing. She focused more on The administrative aspect and the the running of things. The reason why we like to work after 4 p.m. Yes. What? And on the weekend. do love a good weekend.
00:12:54
Jeff Rogers
For any of our bosses that listen, we love you. We love working 8 to 4. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. You guys are great. Love it. So her family finally began supporting her. and Her father provided her with an annual salary of today's equivalent of 40,000 lira.
00:13:11
Jeff Rogers
After the Turkish Ottoman Empire declared war with Russia, the care of the wounded was reported to the London Times by the first ever British journalist William Howard war correspondent.
00:13:24
Jeff Rogers
He described that care was provided by incompetent and ineffective establishments where even the basic supplies were not available. Sounds like no.
00:13:39
Jeff Rogers
Shut me up. What you talk? Stop me. What do you talk? This caused an outcry from the British public demanding improvement. At the same time that Florence wrote to her friend... Can we get some gloves?
Statistical Innovations and Personal Life
00:13:52
Jeff Rogers
Can we get some saline? Sorry. We've run out of vacutainers and Corvacs and we have no Foley's. Stuff that doesn't... People that don't know... this Stuff we need. That's all you need to know.
00:14:05
Jeff Rogers
We do. Is it... I mean, this is 1853 and they're having supply issues and incompetent care. Okay. Okay. Here we are many years later. Very similar circumstances. We got to stop talking.
00:14:22
Jeff Rogers
At the same time that Florence wrote to her friend Liz Herbert asking to lead a private expedition, Liz's husband, Sidney, who is the Secretary of State at War for the British government, wrote to her to lead a group of nurses.
00:14:38
Jeff Rogers
On November 5, 1854, Nightingale led a party of 38 women to Barak Hospital in Scuteri, where the wounded were being cared for. They were not welcomed by the medical officers.
00:14:52
Jeff Rogers
Surprise. oh Bunch of chicks showing up, right? She observed filthy conditions because but basic hygiene was considered beneath the doctors.
00:15:04
Jeff Rogers
ah This is the part of the story that I'm familiar with. Yes, this is what we hear about. She also noted severe overcrowding and uncooperative staff. In what she called the kingdom of hell, a few days after her arrival, the facility was overwhelmed with a flood of wounded from the Battle of Balakava and the Battle of Inkerman, using funds provided by the London Times. So she's getting money.
00:15:30
Jeff Rogers
She personally has somehow managed to get funds for this. Nightingale bought much needed equipment and enlisted the soldiers' wives and the walking wounded, so the soldiers that were less injured, to clean and do laundry.
00:15:47
Jeff Rogers
As the lady with the lamp, she gained the trust and respect of her patients and the establishment. She demanded that basic needs be met, including adequate food, clean clothing and dressings, and bathing.
00:16:03
Jeff Rogers
At the time, records, letters, and documents claimed that she reduced the mortality rate from 57% to 2%. Wow. wow Later, there were some reviews that the mortality rate wasn't quite that low and that maybe the numbers had been misreported by the government, but it was still a significant decrease in mortality.
00:16:25
Jeff Rogers
Prior to Florence Nightingale, the idea of simple cleanliness or even the idea of hand washing was not thought of. The microbe as we know it today or the things that cause germs, it was unknown.
00:16:39
Jeff Rogers
So it was considered a waste of time to clean your hands prior to patient care or to keep the patient clean during healing. What did that do? It didn't really matter, right? She pioneered the idea that social phenomena could be measured and analyzed.
00:16:55
Jeff Rogers
During the Crimean War, her collection and interpretation with graphical display of data was a statistical milestone. And that's what we know of her. Yeah. In May 1855, she traveled directly to Crimea and became ill with what was called a Crimean fever.
00:17:12
Jeff Rogers
She recovered slowly, and it affected her for at least 25 years after. She lived in constant pain and survived through what was called chronic fatigue syndrome.
00:17:23
Jeff Rogers
She would have episodes that caused her to be so weak that she couldn't get out of bed. Reportedly. There were also thoughts that she claimed that she was so unwell that she couldn't be by her family, so she had to stay at home, quotes.
00:17:38
Jeff Rogers
But during these episodes, she would still have very important people come to her. She made really important people come to her location, and she would have meetings and talk about statistics and talk about healthcare and talk about all this kind of stuff.
00:17:55
Jeff Rogers
all from
Legacy in Nursing Education and Personal Contributions
00:17:56
Jeff Rogers
the comfort her own home. oh good for her. All while avoiding her family because they were still pressuring her to get married. So they think that there was an aspect of it that was like, nope, just leave me alone. I'm too sick. But it was just she wanted to focus on her work and her personal life where she didn't want their influence.
00:18:15
Jeff Rogers
The Crimean War ended 1856 fifty six Nightingale stayed until the hospital was closed. She returned home to Derbyshire in August of 1856. In September, so less than a month after she got home, she met with Queen Victoria and Prince Albert.
00:18:33
Jeff Rogers
Huh. As a result. Holy. Right? Right. I mean, she's hanging with the big ones. Right? Yeah. Yes. so So, yeah. As a result of this meeting, a royal commission was established for reform in the military medical and purveyance systems.
00:18:48
Jeff Rogers
Her statistical models, such as the Coxcomb chart, are still used today. Such as the what? The Coxcomb chart. Okay. Are still used today. In 1858, she became the first female member of the Royal Statistical Society.
00:19:03
Jeff Rogers
She worked tirelessly to reform nursing education and created the first scientifically based nursing school. In 1859, she published Notes on Nursing, What It Is and What It Is Not.
00:19:17
Jeff Rogers
This provided direction on how to manage the sick in the household because she realized that people weren't caring for sick at home. um Wouldn't it be really fascinating to read that?
00:19:28
Jeff Rogers
Right? um I do have a copy of it, actually. It's still produced today. Is it really? Yeah. Whoa, seriously. yeah Yeah. Yeah. 1859 to today, still being produced.
00:19:40
Jeff Rogers
I mean, this was not too far from the time when George Washington died. And they should have listened to him her. Her. Yeah. Yeah. They could have took some lessons from her. Yeah. But she was a little later. Yeah.
00:19:53
Jeff Rogers
Joan Quixly from the Nightingale School of Nursing described this book and said, The book was the first of its kind ever to be written. It appeared at a time when the simple rules of health were only beginning to be known, when its topics were of vital importance, not only for the well-being and recovery of patients, when hospitals were riddled with infection, when nurses were still mainly regarded as ignorant and uneducated persons.
00:20:19
Jeff Rogers
The book has, inevitably, its place in the history of nursing, for it was written by the founder of Modern Nursing. Huh. It definitely has a place in history for sure. Right? That's so interesting.
00:20:33
Jeff Rogers
You have this book. I do. I want to see it. I will bring it to you tomorrow. Okay. Using private donations from the Nightingale Fund, established in 1855, by 1960, the Nightingale School of Nursing started at St. Thomas' Hospital in London.
00:20:51
Jeff Rogers
By 1862, financed again by the Nightingale Fund, an additional school for education of midwives was established at King's College Hospital. All of this is happening, mind you, while she's too sick to be up and about.
00:21:05
Jeff Rogers
She's doing all of this. Okay. Wink, wink. Wink. She ain't sick. Also, King's College. We talked about last week with Alan Turing. Right? King's College.
00:21:16
Jeff Rogers
We love London. Anything London. We do love London. They do a lot. They've done a lot. Absolutely. Where are you, America? Right? Come on, America. America. Princeton had a part in Alan Turing. I'm just saying.
00:21:30
Jeff Rogers
Jersey. No. Jersey's always there. ah love Jersey. I love Jenna. I love Jenna too. don't really know if I love Jersey. mean, I rode through Jersey last week. That makes it, that makes it love. Thank you.
00:21:47
Jeff Rogers
After the war, she continued fighting for equality and healthcare care standards. She demanded that the poor and destitute be treated in hospitals that were the same as those that the wealthy were treated in.
00:21:58
Jeff Rogers
So she brought up the whole basic standard for care. yeah During one of her episodes of severe sickness, her Aunt May left her husband and children to move in with her.
00:22:13
Jeff Rogers
And it's believed that this was one of the very few intense intimate relationships she ever held. Hold up. So it's not okay. Cause it's her aunt. No, it's that's really not okay. It's not okay. it So it gets worse.
00:22:29
Jeff Rogers
It gets worse. Like biological aunt. I don't know. It didn't, does it didn't specify. i would hope not. Okay. But I guess you don't know. I mean, it's the 1850s, right? Like, your options are limited.
00:22:41
Jeff Rogers
Her Aunt May was like, yeah, I'm coming. Bye-bye, husband and children. Oh!
00:22:48
Jeff Rogers
Why would you... I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. Continue.
00:22:57
Jeff Rogers
Okay. So, remember how it was weird that she... We're like little kids. We're being 12 years old right now. But she described their relationship as like lovers, right?
00:23:11
Jeff Rogers
It gets worse, like I said. So her aunt, who maybe was biologically, maybe not biologically related, was one of three relationships that she notably had with women.
00:23:25
Jeff Rogers
Of her cousin Marianne, she wrote, Quote, I have never loved but one person with passion in my life, and that was her. Oh, my God.
00:23:37
Jeff Rogers
I mean, it's beautiful, but it's creepy, right? I mean, it's her cousin. It's her cousin. So it's creepy and disturbing to realize that it's her attraction and relationships with were with family members. You know, you you take what you can get, okay? We can't be picky at this point.
00:23:53
Jeff Rogers
If the royal family was doing it. Exactly. So why couldn't she? And you know what? She was like very wealthy, so maybe she got the idea from her family. i don't know. So she was also wealthy? Yeah, yeah. Her family was very, very wealthy.
00:24:08
Jeff Rogers
um They owned two homes and they traveled back and forth all the time. And that's why she could be educated. Yeah, this is something totally different than it ever I ever – I don't think much of Florence Nightingale. But this is something I never thought about, you know? Right. You think about just the hand washing, right?
00:24:24
Jeff Rogers
Yeah. Yeah. So in 1907, she became the first woman ever awarded the Order of Merit by the king. She was also honored by receiving the title of Lady of Grace of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem.
00:24:37
Jeff Rogers
Again, one of those long names, like just shorten it. Throughout her life, she published over 200 pieces of literature. Again, not much nursing, but a whole lot of statistics and administration. She was known as a great nursing theoretician.
00:24:52
Jeff Rogers
Her contributions to nursing and the medical field were unmatched. Think if she hadn't come along and been like, maybe she washed her hands. Sounds like a great idea. It's bananas to think that. Bananas. They went for centuries not washing their hands and wondering why people were dying. Come on.
00:25:08
Jeff Rogers
Yeah. Putting dirty bandages on. I guess they had limits. You don't know. you don't know. I mean, they had no clue. You're right. Well, in one of her journals, she wrote, I have lived and slept in the same beds with English countesses and Prussian farm women.
00:25:26
Jeff Rogers
know No woman has excited passions among women more than I have. So. okay Miss Warren. Right? Yeah. like Get it girl. So she might have sounded cocky, but you can't fault her for the confidence, right? Right. Like, here she is.
00:25:44
Jeff Rogers
but it's with her family. Yeah. I mean, not all them. Just the great loves of her life. Okay. Does that make it better or worse? Worse.
00:25:55
Jeff Rogers
so Okay. So that's the story, the untold story of Florence Nightingale, the queer. That's so fascinating. We didn't hear any of that. It's just the washing the hands part.
00:26:08
Jeff Rogers
Also that she didn't think men could be nurses. yeah But it's crazy because she actually... There was a lot about her that...
00:26:19
Jeff Rogers
Even though she spoke up for women and like did this whole thing, right there was a lot that she didn't think women could do either. So there there were contradictory writings from her that were basically like, no, no, no, sit down, stay over there. yeah I'm above you, so I can do this.
00:26:39
Jeff Rogers
Some women can, you can't. who um But it was it was interesting reading that. fascinating story for better or for worse right whatever you think about it right huh florence was gay like it so cheers to the queers then and now where absolutely
Closing Remarks and Pride Month
00:27:00
Jeff Rogers
another good week of podcasting in our first year
00:27:06
Jeff Rogers
and can't believe it's been a year that keeps dropping stuff it's been a year I drop stuff. You once flipped a coin through a room into another room. Okay, so you want to talk about dropping stuff? I was just... I don't know.
00:27:18
Jeff Rogers
I would like to know the statistics on that. One Sam. You're one in a million. Goddamn right I am. Hey, hey, hey. hey, hey. Oh, okay. Well, that was good. thats That was an interesting story. I learned something.
00:27:31
Jeff Rogers
You did. Yep. um Rate and review us. Give us the five stars. Yeah, we have three, five stars. Um, you know, it's pride month and it is a time for all of us to be sharing and expressing who we are and be proud of who we are.
00:27:48
Jeff Rogers
um but a part of that is also knowing the appropriate time to express it and how to express it. So I just want to say that, you know, do it in whatever way you see fit.
00:28:04
Jeff Rogers
Um, Be who you are however you want to be that way. Okay? But just do it respecting others as well because we are inclusive and we love everyone so we shouldn't make others feel bad in doing it.
00:28:23
Jeff Rogers
Good point. That's a good point. All right. Alan, overqualified underpaid master publisher extraordinaire. Ashley, the ultimate and epically unmatched hype queen editor.
00:28:37
Jeff Rogers
Kelsey, our incomparable Swagger Merch creator. And Daniel, well, sweet Daniel, our friendly neighborhood supporter. being Sweet. I'm just kidding. We do so love him, though.
00:28:48
Jeff Rogers
They're our first and forever fans. Hey. Thanks, everybody. i