Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
59 – Ellen Halbert & Elizabeth Báthory
37 Plays17 days ago
This week, Jeff shares the truly horrific and inspiring survival story of Ellen Halbert, a victim of a brutal attack in Austin, Texas, who turned her trauma into a life of advocacy and justice reform. Sam dives into the haunting tale of Elizabeth Báthory, the Hungarian countess often labeled as one of history’s most prolific female serial killers. Her legend involves the torture and murder of hundreds of young women between 1590 and 1610.
Visit us on Linktree for the collection of links, Instagram, or email us at jeffandsamshow@gmail.com.
Jeff’s sources:
Sam’s sources:
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Show Setup
00:00:00
Jeff Rogers
Well, hello, Sam. Hi, Jeff.
00:00:25
Jeff Rogers
Welcome to the Jeff and Sam show. I'm Jeff. And I'm Sam. Hey, that's like the fifth time in a row I've done that right. fourth Fourth, you're keeping You're keeping count on me. No, but it just kind of happens. You're keeping count?
00:00:42
Jeff Rogers
I love that.
Show Description and Listener Engagement
00:00:43
Jeff Rogers
and So you guys, welcome to the show. It's the hot mess of a show that we love to do for you. And you can find us and recommend us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio.
00:00:54
Jeff Rogers
Also, right now, while you're listening to our voice, rate. Click a star. Click a star, or click two, three, four, or five. you got options. You do. We prefer five. We will take one. Technically, you could do one. Yeah, you can do one. I don't care.
00:01:08
Jeff Rogers
Whatever. Five. You know. Just tell us your thoughts. Yes. And find us on Instagram, the Jeff and Sam show, Gmail, the Jeff and Sam show dot com. No, but Gmail is you you were just like, yeah, uh-huh.
00:01:24
Jeff Rogers
Jeff and Sam show at Gmail dot com. You were going for it. ah Jeff and Sam Show. The Jeff and Sam Show. Jeffandsamshow.com is our website that we have that is still under construction, but it's a work for us, like we are.
00:01:37
Jeff Rogers
Like we are. um Unlike us, however, the website at one point will be completed. Yeah, well, we're not completed either. We're far from complete. We're just out here in the world.
Pop Culture and Media Recommendations
00:01:50
Jeff Rogers
You complete me.
00:01:51
Jeff Rogers
Jerry Maguire. Look at you, another movie reference. Please. love it. Don't do anything wrong with this one. no Yeah. A kilt. I will get back to you on what a kilt is. I've learned that I need to learn what a kilt is. Somebody pointed it out to me. So it's not just a man skirt.
00:02:09
Jeff Rogers
I get it. You know, Braveheart was a good movie because I like the kilt. But I've been told I need to. He's going to dive into that in a separate episode. You're going to get a one minute history of the kilt.
00:02:22
Jeff Rogers
because And what's underneath? The dongle.
00:02:29
Jeff Rogers
Gross. A dongle. hate you. What's new with you? Oh, I feel like things, but not. Let me tell you. Tell me. Tell me everything.
00:02:41
Jeff Rogers
Okay. Short, short little bit. ah um There is a show that I watched. It's only one season. Okay. um It's on Amazon. It's called We Were Liars.
00:02:52
Jeff Rogers
Have you heard of it? Nope. Just damn. Okay. Just damn. It's on Amazon. we we were liars. We were liars. You need to watch it and I need you to tell me what you think about it.
00:03:03
Jeff Rogers
I think it was, it's like a mystery kind of family drama kind of thing, but very good.
00:03:15
Jeff Rogers
Very good. Okay. I'm going to, I'll just put that in my notes. We were liars. And then I had to talk to you about, Okay.
00:03:24
Jeff Rogers
Let me tell you. Okay. We talked to you about happy Valley. Okay. Obviously completed. Damn it. Okay. Three seasons.
00:03:35
Jeff Rogers
I binged. And just, just for you, i don't know if, if we do have new listeners. Okay. I do know this. We have new listeners for the past year. Just as a recap, I've been telling Sam, please watch happy Valley. It is a British crime procedural show.
00:03:51
Jeff Rogers
And I think it is one of the best shows ever. that I've seen in a very long time. It's up there with the fall, Gillian Anderson. So for a year, i was telling Sam to watch happy Valley.
00:04:04
Jeff Rogers
And then last or whenever we recorded last, Sam said, is there ah new British show that I can watch? And I was like, you crazy person. I've been telling you that you should watch happy Valley.
00:04:17
Jeff Rogers
She has now watched Happy Valley. I have. Actually, and I think what you said was, no, I will not give you any more recommendations until you watch Happy Valley. So, understandably, um i i immediately went and got Happy Valley.
00:04:33
Jeff Rogers
Just damn, okay? I mean, one of the first things that I want to say about it is, like, I just wish that the police officers in the show would fucking call for backup.
00:04:46
Jeff Rogers
Just call for backup. When something seems suspicious or like something seems off, don't go investigate by yourself because they, they do a lot of solo. That's a small town. scenes Right? Yeah. yeah Sure.
00:04:58
Jeff Rogers
Fine. Whatever. But if something seems fishy or like something happens, maybe call and be like, Hey, just so you know, I'm about to do such and such. Okay. That's your critique. I get it.
00:05:10
Jeff Rogers
It's only one of my critiques. Okay. They do such an extraordinary job making the bad guy, but the bad guy throughout all three seasons, seem like a decent person. Uh-huh.
00:05:25
Jeff Rogers
especially when it comes to the his kid right but i just hate him i loathe him he's such a skis ball and like but then he should they like try and make you like feel sorry for him and like make him seem like a human he's not it's all part of it and he's such a fucking liar he's a monster he's a monster he's a monster absolutely fucking lutely ah and yeah katherine obviously sarah lancashire yeah i get it that like she's had like shit yeah thrown at her okay but there are some times when she's just a twunt okay like sometimes when she talks to her sister i'm like yo ease up like i get it i get it but
00:06:14
Jeff Rogers
she things to her. don't have to be such a hard ass, right? Right. To someone who's like stood by you through it all and been there with you, right? um ah Neil, do you remember who Neil is? Yeah. ah His voice drives me insane. It drives me insane, too. Drives me insane, okay?
00:06:33
Jeff Rogers
That's it, right? You such good job. I'm Neil. don't know. Yeah, what is that about? I don't know, but it's so obnoxious. And I i get it.
00:06:44
Jeff Rogers
it's just an actor right but goddamn this is you making up for a year of not watching exactly um daniel and ann yeah i love i love that they got together that made me well we shouldn't probably be spoiling it because i want other people to see it too okay that's the only like giveaway then um ah There's just nothing happy about the valley.
00:07:12
Jeff Rogers
I don't know why they call it Happy Valley. They don't talk about why it's called it Happy Valley. It's not like the town is nicknamed Happy Valley. It's not happy. No. In case anyone was wondering. It's not Happy Valley. that's There's nothing. Okay. Okay.
00:07:25
Jeff Rogers
But like, Jesus. And like the drugs. Jesus. But it's not unreal. No, it's not. I get it. but Did you not like the show? I loved it. Are you kidding? i i was good i just had all these things ok share with you i I thought it was so much fun to watch that that is one that I can go back and if I have nothing else to watch on TV. Well, it's like the fall. I'll back watch it. my god. I can go back and just watch that show. There are so many...
00:07:52
Jeff Rogers
scenes that you're sitting on the edge of your seat you know and you are the okay the scene on the boat where she could have killed him you're just like fuck yeah do it do it well and then she has another opportunity a later point as well Yeah.
00:08:15
Jeff Rogers
And she does. And her sister. i love her sister. She's everything good in the world. She is. She's sweet. She's flawed. She's sweet. She's... Strong. Strong. They both... They they they play her as... She's a badass.
00:08:33
Jeff Rogers
She is. She's a badass. Yeah. Damn. The scene where she like the cops find the body in the barrel. It's at the beginning of one of the seasons. And she's like, well, that's Billy. That's like Billy from down the road. And they're like, sure. How do you know that? It's basically them saying, sure, woman, yeah how do you fucking know that? And she's like, well, you know, ABC and d bitches. And then she walks off and she literally says, she's, I think she says like,
00:08:59
Jeff Rogers
twats or something like that as she's walking away. But that's Yeah, that's the final season. So she's just like, I've been I've been a cop for 30 years. Like, um, you know what? Screw you. Sure. I'm not a homicide inspector, but like, and the scene when about the farting?
00:09:16
Jeff Rogers
Tell me ah that I that is the funniest scene. Jeff. I just think that it's even funnier because You brought this up historically in our lives together. You have made a comment about this. That's That's the best.
00:09:46
Jeff Rogers
that's the best You can't really understand any of it except for when you're watching it. But like she she does. She's talking about how yoga is dangerous because it makes you just rip it.
00:09:58
Jeff Rogers
Okay. So if you have it, we both agree on this at least. If you haven't seen Happy Valley, that's one you should watch. Yeah. And you have to watch We Were Liars and let me know what you think about it. Okay.
00:10:10
Jeff Rogers
um I haven't watched many movies or in fact, I haven't even read any of a book this past week. Why?
Jeff's Oregon Adventure
00:10:18
Jeff Rogers
Nor have I watched ah show, a movie, anything like that. Because, you know, I went to Oregon.
00:10:24
Jeff Rogers
Did you now? Did. What did you do in Oregon? Oh my God. What did I do? I traversed the state of Oregon. I went from Gresham where my aunt and uncle live which is out a suburb of Portland and then crossed over the mountain to Mount Hood you know all this but people who listen i think this is a fun story I'm not stopping you I would call you along the way and send you pictures along the way stalking your location amazing and uh so crossed by Mount Hood literally the base of Mount Hood. It's government camp is what that's called.
00:10:58
Jeff Rogers
And then suddenly you're in Eastern Oregon and you are in the high desert and it is so beautiful. It's just gorgeous, right? Yeah. Also 99 degrees, 95 degrees, but there is no humidity.
00:11:12
Jeff Rogers
So unlike here, when you sit in a shade, you don't sweat. And I got to Whitewater Raft with a company called River Drifters. And Caleb was our guide. And Caleb, just a cool guy.
00:11:27
Jeff Rogers
He's everything Oregon. Little bit mountain man. Very, and just awesome. Just a great guy. um He also lived in a part of Oregon called Madras, which is a town. And they had this huge fire, it's still ongoing. And while we were rafting that day, the rafting trip was like eight hours long.
00:11:47
Jeff Rogers
It was for seven hours long. It was 13 miles, 11 miles, something like that. Also the water 58 degrees. ah brisk the temp outside 95 ish maybe 99 maybe 97 i don't know so they put me in the front of the boat and me and jason we were in the front of the boat and the first wave that come up and hit us in the face and the body it's like a brick of ice and it was like a nasal lavage neti pot on steroids the water went right the fuck up my nose and then i had the paddle in my hand i'm like okay well it came out water came out is there snot all over my face i don't know you're just okay yes and kristen saw the picture dan saw the picture it's
00:12:42
Jeff Rogers
I told you on an episode before, i don't remember saying this, but people have said that, and I do believe I would say it because people will get, if there's going to be a insane looking picture of me, the people with the company that take the picture will get the most five chin, mouth wide open, neti pot being done up the nose.
00:13:04
Jeff Rogers
ah It was amazing. And Maupin is the little town, the desert town that we were in. both nights we had dinner and you know what john jason and i have not been very close over the years so this was like bonding we were it was like brothers and like we were kids again you know where were these the pictures that you took and sent where were you oh that was at the imperial company hotel that's where i stayed amazing
00:13:35
Jeff Rogers
i I told you. Yeah. they The pictures that you sent look fake. There was no TV. There was no TV. So I just set out by the river all night long, you know, until like, yeah, that was my hotel.
00:13:50
Jeff Rogers
so I just sat outside, watched the sun go down. and then even though it's the desert, the moment that the sun goes down, it drops 20 degrees. So I'm like, okay, time to go inside.
00:14:02
Jeff Rogers
Uh, beautiful. And then of course we went to, i went back to Gresham and then my aunt and uncle were so sweet. They were like, yeah, of course we'll do a day trip. So we went to Cannon beach and to, which is from the Goonies. If you remember them mapping and the Goonies, the big rock in the ocean, that's Cannon beach. course And then we went to seaside Oregon.
00:14:25
Jeff Rogers
i love the coast. It was 65 degrees and sunny on the coast. We're sweatshirt and some shorts. Spectacular. Oh, Anyway, it was just a week away from the heat here and a different view and environment.
00:14:38
Jeff Rogers
It was wet and hot here. Yeah. Wet and hot. Yeah. Oh, and there was no, like, no Portland. I didn't go to Portland. I just stayed in Gresham, and we went to, like, this local little Mexican restaurant.
00:14:51
Jeff Rogers
Perfect. You want yourself restaurant. You know, I do. And I don't want to – I'm past the point of when you're in a big city of finding the fancy restaurant. Sometimes you just want – like, what's the best? Pull on the wall. I said to them, I was like, do you have your own favorite little Mexican place that you like to go to for some good food?
00:15:07
Jeff Rogers
Yes, we do. And so that's where we went. If it's not a burger for you, it's a Mexican. Chips and cheese dip. Hell yeah. Yeah, I mean, that was a great time. it was a great week. It was just perfect. I had a good time. Perfect.
00:15:23
Jeff Rogers
Perfecto. I did not. I think the only thing I did when you were gone was um
00:15:30
Jeff Rogers
Saturday, we went, spent all day We did dc we did Lunch on the water and Navy Yard at this place called All Purpose Pizza, which for some reason had bottomless mimosas. So
Sam's DC Rugby Experience
00:15:45
Jeff Rogers
we did that. Okay. The pizza was so good. You would have loved it.
00:15:50
Jeff Rogers
um And then we did the rugby game, but it was women versus Fiji USA and then USA men versus England. And our seats for that were actually in the standing sections because Audi Field has...
00:16:05
Jeff Rogers
seats along the so the long sides and then the two short sides are standing room only for, you know, crazy fans. Well, it was beating down sun on us and we were drenched in sweat before we even left the pizza place.
00:16:23
Jeff Rogers
We get to the games and we're like, ugh, just dripping sweat. It was not like the, not the pretty glistening. It was like, you look like an angry, wet dog yeah kind of sweat.
00:16:35
Jeff Rogers
So we we bailed before the second game because we couldn't handle it. It was too much. And we went and did Solace Brewing, which was backed by the pizza joint.
00:16:49
Jeff Rogers
So was good. That's when you guys FaceTimed me. Yeah. Yeah. As I was in the car on the way to my 65 degree weather. yeah And it was, you said like a sauna here. It
Stories of Survival and Resilience
00:16:59
Jeff Rogers
was so bad. Yeah.
00:17:01
Jeff Rogers
Oh, also Caleb, from river drifters our guide he's from madras oregon and that's right now well sorry on saturday when i was rafting or thursday or whatever day i rafted there was a fire 77 000 acres at the time in oregon and it was like kind of a around madras so the whole day we rafted of course he had no cell service And so he was hoping that when we got done rafting and we got cell service, he would see that there was some containment.
00:17:31
Jeff Rogers
But there had there was no containment at all at that point. So I hope everything is okay with him. Super great guy. Yeah. And Jason, let's swear to God, we were like brothers.
00:17:43
Jeff Rogers
You looked it. it It was great. It was a great time. That's awesome. you just listened to me and Sam catch up like we really have. We haven't seen each other. We haven't seen each other. So thank Thank you for listening to all that.
00:17:56
Jeff Rogers
Good luck when I get back from my month-long trip to Europe. I'm here. Maybe we'll have one show dedicated to just you telling your Europe stories. I could do that. Yeah, we could do that. We could do that.
00:18:06
Jeff Rogers
Okay, you want to ask flip a coin? Oh, yes. We have a show to do. Indeed. What are you drinking? Alpine Blast because it was such a hit for you last week. I thought I would try the Alpine Blast.
00:18:17
Jeff Rogers
I'm drinking the Poppy Wildberry. Poppy Alpine Blast. Sorry. But in my... In my, the Jeff and Sam show koozie that made. Oh, Kelsey. God almighty.
00:18:29
Jeff Rogers
Kelsey. Our merch. I didn't tell him about anything. Kelsey. We have mugs and, I'm sorry, we have koozies and we have keychains and shirts and bags and fanny packs and socks with our logo on it.
00:18:43
Jeff Rogers
What the hell? You're amazing. Who are you? Okay, so if we open it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Smells so fresh. And then... yeah Alpine Blast. Somebody also said this was ASMR. Something like that.
00:19:01
Jeff Rogers
Cheers, please. What the pretty colors these are. they are ah I don't think I realized that's what color that was. It's like urine. No, it's not. But it tastes so much better.
00:19:16
Jeff Rogers
like it's like It's like urine that you've had way too much vitamin B. It's like urine, but it tastes it's like a banana bag. Oh yeah. and banana bag. Okay.
00:19:28
Jeff Rogers
So you want to flip a coin? I Did we forget anything? Rate us. to Review us. Yeah, yeah. yeah Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, beast.
00:19:39
Jeff Rogers
Okay, tell me when to stop. jesus Stop.
00:19:45
Jeff Rogers
This one pound... one pound
00:19:50
Jeff Rogers
I think this is one of our London... Okay. It's got a bunch of flowers on one side and the queen on the other. Obviously, you are Queen Elizabeth II. That's very kind of you.
00:20:03
Jeff Rogers
Indeed.
00:20:04
Jeff Rogers
but gaun hi Excuse me. Okay. Ready? You're the queen. And it is the queen. What? What? Oh, my. Okay. Okay.
00:20:17
Jeff Rogers
The main source that I used for this episode is I Survived. I love that show. Then you know this story.
00:20:27
Jeff Rogers
i think you do know this story. I'm pretty pretty sure you do. But I'm going to just tell it to you anyway. Tell me your version. Because somebody out there doesn't know this story. And I think you should. um It's August 29th, 1986 in Austin, Texas. And Ellen Halbert had a busy day ahead of her.
00:20:46
Jeff Rogers
She was drinking some coffee. She was reading the newspaper. and then she decided it was time for a shower. So she got out of the shower. She walked over her to her closet. She got her robe. She walked across the room in a towel.
00:20:59
Jeff Rogers
And as she walked to her closet, she noticed a man out of the corner of her eye. And he was in the corner of her bathroom. And literally she couldn't believe what she was seeing.
00:21:10
Jeff Rogers
She thought she just like, you know. It's one of those things where you're like, oh, did I just see that? Yeah, because he was dressed in an all black ninja suit. He was completely covered. Even his hands had gloves on him.
00:21:23
Jeff Rogers
The only skin Ellidan could see was around his eyes and around his mouth. The intruder had his right hand up in the air and it was in his hand was a very large knife. At first, Ellen thought it was some kind of joke, so she sort of laughed uncomfortably. And then she remembered thinking, oh, fuck, this is a nightmare.
00:21:42
Jeff Rogers
She needs to wake up. But it wasn't a nightmare. So the intruder began screaming at Ellen to get on the floor. get on the floor, he kept screaming. And with his left hand, he sort of pushed Ellen down while he was holding the knife in his right hand.
00:21:58
Jeff Rogers
There was a brief struggle a few minutes, and then Ellen ended up in her bedroom that was like attached to the bathroom. At this point, the man backhanded Ellen with his left hand, knocking her down on the floor of the bedroom.
00:22:10
Jeff Rogers
She got up and he backhanded her again. Ellen was determined not to stay on the floor. So she got up and she went and sat on the bed. and She pulled her knees up to her chest and wrapped her arms around her knees. She was like trying to shield herself, you know? Now Ellen just got out of the shower, so all that she had on was a towel.
00:22:30
Jeff Rogers
Her feet were sort of, they were kind of like hanging off the bed. And so the attacker drive his he dragged his knife across the bottom of her feet. And then he said, quote, I just want you to know that my knives are a lot sharper than your knives.
00:22:48
Jeff Rogers
And she is so kind of funny when she's telling this story because her Austin, Texas accent and her like her presence are so strong.
00:23:01
Jeff Rogers
She's basically like, how dare he? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? yeah She's great. Oh, she's great. He then bound Ellen's ankles together and then he bound her wrists together.
00:23:13
Jeff Rogers
And her wrists are behind her back. So he instructed Ellen to close her eyes until he said that she could open them and no moving until he said she could move. So she did what the man said.
00:23:25
Jeff Rogers
Then he took off his mask and he placed it on Ellen's head so she couldn't see him. He said, quote, it's a shame you can't see me. I'm a very handsome man. After he placed the mask on Ellen's face, he began walking and pacing.
00:23:40
Jeff Rogers
And then he started talking to Ellen about how much money she must be worth. He asked how much she had in the bank. He said, quote you have a beautiful house. You must have a lot of money.
00:23:51
Jeff Rogers
At this point, Ellen offered to take him to the bank. She would write him a check and he could get every single penny out of her banking account. She was saying anything she could kind of to make him less angry.
00:24:04
Jeff Rogers
Then he told Ellen he had been in her house for two days. He told Ellen that some of the things that had happened in her house over the last two days just to prove it to her. He said he'd been hiding in the attic the entire time listening to everything.
00:24:17
Jeff Rogers
So he knew. Absolutely. So he knew that her husband was golfing and he wouldn't be back until mid-afternoon. He also knew that her son was at school and probably wouldn't be home until three or four o'clock that afternoon.
00:24:29
Jeff Rogers
It was then that he told a Ellen that he was going to rape her. Those were not the exact words that he used. They were really horrible words, but that's essentially what he said to her.
00:24:40
Jeff Rogers
She was crying and she was begging him not to do this. And he told her that nobody would ever catch him and that it didn't matter what he did to her. He cut the tape around her ankles and he yelled at her to get back in the bed.
00:24:53
Jeff Rogers
She did until she like scooted back in the bed until her head was at the headboard and he was yelling at her. And then the attacker sexually assaulted her.
00:25:05
Jeff Rogers
And when he finished, he told Ellen just how much he enjoyed it And then he bound her ankles together again. Her wrists were still bound behind her back and she still had this mask on her face so she couldn't see anything.
00:25:19
Jeff Rogers
He left her on the bed and then he went to take a shower. walle While he was in the shower, she was kind of trying to think of what she could do to escape. She decided that in that moment, if she tried, he would kill her for sure.
00:25:33
Jeff Rogers
He came back into the bedroom and cut the tape away from her wrists. He showed her a check that he had written $600 in the amount for. He had written $600. He instructed Ellen to fill out the rest of the check, including his name.
00:25:48
Jeff Rogers
And she did. She did, of course. She wrote the check to Troy Wigley because he told her his name. And then he bound her wrist back together and forced Ellen into the bathroom. He told her to lie face down on the floor, but he wanted Ellen on her knees with her face on the floor.
00:26:08
Jeff Rogers
So she had no clue what was going on. But the next thing she knew is that... He hit her really hard to the left side of her head with something really hard. She didn't know what it was, but it was like an incredible shooting pain.
00:26:22
Jeff Rogers
It was a huge blow to the head. This knocked Ellen over to the side, and she was laying on her side when she felt her stab when she felt him stab her in the left breast.
00:26:33
Jeff Rogers
And then he straightened Ellen up, like on her knees again, where she felt another blow, this time to the right side of her head. It felt the same as the one to the left, and it knocked her over again.
00:26:46
Jeff Rogers
Wiggly was hitting her in the head with a hammer and stabbing her with a knife. Then he stabbed her two times in the back of the neck. Then he had taken the knife and he was trying to stab her in the head through the skull, but the knife wouldn't go through the skull.
00:27:05
Jeff Rogers
So he picked up the hammer and he started hammering the knife into her skull. At this point, Ellen was drifting in and out of consciousness. but yeah But she remembers that he was trying to get the knife out of her skull and he couldn't get it out of the skull. So he put his foot on her head to yank the knife out of her skull.
00:27:28
Jeff Rogers
Some time passed and she regained consciousness again and Wiggly wasn't there. But she could slightly turn her head and she could see back into the bedroom. And he was in there and he wasn't wearing his outfit anymore. So she saw his face.
00:27:43
Jeff Rogers
He screamed at Ellen to put her head down and he went into the bathroom and he hit her head in the hammer are he hit her in the head with the hammer one more time. Then he held her left hand up and started trying to get her wedding rings off of her left finger, but they wouldn't come off.
00:27:58
Jeff Rogers
And she knew that he was about to cut her finger off. And she said, I remember saying to myself, oh, my God, oh my God, if he can't get this off, he's going to cut my finger off. She said she asked God for help.
00:28:10
Jeff Rogers
And then her wedding rings came off and Wiggly left the room. And she knew that she was in and out of consciousness and she didn't know where he was.
00:28:21
Jeff Rogers
And she knew that any moment he could come around the corner and he could finish her off. But she also knew she had to get help. She said she slithered, that was her word, she slithered out of the bedroom and then she slid down the stairs to the floor below.
00:28:37
Jeff Rogers
She got to a phone. This was 1986, so it was like the old school home phone. She got to the phone and she could barely see because of all the blood and like maybe the loss of vision. Maybe the head injuries.
00:28:49
Jeff Rogers
So from complete muscle memory, Ellen dialed her parents' phone number. They lived about three miles away, so they were there as soon as possible. She remembered nothing after she made that phone call. That is, until she heard her father screaming.
00:29:03
Jeff Rogers
ah Imagine that scene. No. Yeah. She said that when she was in the ambulance and wrapped to the hospital, one of the paramedics said they didn't think she would make it.
00:29:14
Jeff Rogers
And Ellen remembered thinking, this is the best. It's again with that Texas badass woman accent. She said, you bet I'm going to make it. That's what she said to herself.
00:29:25
Jeff Rogers
That was her reason to make it. You know? and I won't, I will. ah You bet I'm going to make it. And that was the first time that she knew that she would survive. Ellen managed to tell the police the attacker's name.
00:29:39
Jeff Rogers
The police arrested him that afternoon. He was caught in the bank trying to cash the check that she had written to him. Ellen had emergency surgery and she received 600 stitches or sutures just from the stab wounds alone.
00:29:54
Jeff Rogers
um Ellen was released from the hospital, had no problem living in the house in which the attack occurred. She said, quote, you know, the house didn't do it to me. He did. It was okay.
00:30:06
Jeff Rogers
As part of the trauma that Ellen had after the attack, she felt, I mean, she felt just hideous about herself. Her face was really swollen. She had she said she felt like a throwaway person, and she didn't think anybody would ever love her again.
00:30:20
Jeff Rogers
Her head had been shaved. um They had to shave the head to do the surgery. It was like a horrible... the The craziest part about it, because I've seen this in some like trauma patients is that the number of times that he broke her skull with a hammer probably actually saved her life because the swelling that could occur allowed for her to not herniate.
00:30:46
Jeff Rogers
And so that's the only plus side is that she didn't die of a head bleed. Yeah, her head had been shaved. And she at one point, she went to visit her sister in Houston, and she cried the entire way there because of how she looked and how she felt about herself.
00:31:01
Jeff Rogers
She said the love and support of her family was tremendous. And she also sought professional help with therapy and support groups, as well as her local rape crisis center.
00:31:13
Jeff Rogers
She said that listening to other survivors helped a lot. It helped her to understand that she could survive this. And she also talked about doing all of this for her family, too.
00:31:24
Jeff Rogers
She said that the one thing she ah she would like to tell everybody is that no matter what happened to you, talk about it. And if it's a terrible crime, sometimes your family doesn't really want to hear it or your friends don't really want to hear it anymore.
00:31:38
Jeff Rogers
She said, find avenues to tell your story. Every time you tell it, no matter how many years, you still heal a little bit. Ellen is 77 today and she still tells her story.
00:31:53
Jeff Rogers
Three months after the attack, Ellen's attacker was brought to trial. Ellen was nervous because she still hadn't fully recovered at the time, and it was the first time she had seen him since the attack. Although Ellen had already testified by the time Wiggly took the stand, she wasn't allowed to hear him testify.
00:32:09
Jeff Rogers
She had to sit in the hallway for the testimony, for his testimony. for him testifying. Of course, her family was telling her what he was saying, but she remembered thinking, why on earth would they do this to a victim?
00:32:22
Jeff Rogers
Yeah. True, right? Troy Wigley was found guilty of aggravated robbery and was sentenced to life in prison November 1986, just seven days before his birthday um The defense attorney asked for moderate sentencing to which the assistant DA replied, was Ellen treated mode moderately um modetot modestly?
00:32:45
Jeff Rogers
that i mean, why? Why would you do that? Why would you ask for that? Because it wasn't a simple aggravated burglar. Right. He raped her and he left her for dead. Yep. And in 2006, Ellen had to start going to the parole hearings.
00:33:03
Jeff Rogers
That's when they started. And in the last parole hearing on June 11, 2024, Wigley's parole was denied. Ellen started speaking publicly about her attack.
00:33:14
Jeff Rogers
This led to volunteering and victim services. This also led to Ellen b ah being appointed by the then-Governor Ann Richards to the Board of Criminal Justice. Yay!
00:33:26
Jeff Rogers
In 1995, a substance abuse treatment prison for women in Burnett, Texas, named its 600-bed ward, the Ellen Halbert Unit. Two years later, the U.S. Attorney General Janet Reno presented Halbert with a National Crime Victim Service Award.
00:33:41
Jeff Rogers
After her term at the Texas Board of Criminal Justice ended, Halbert became heavily involved with restorative justice for victims of violent crimes in Texas. Restorative justice can take many forms, but it typically involves conversations between victims and the perpetrators that are facilitated by trained mediator.
00:34:02
Jeff Rogers
Damn. Super interesting, right? And ah one of the goals for restorative justice is to give agency back to the victims, allowing them to... them space to speak with their attackers as part of the greater healing process.
00:34:16
Jeff Rogers
Additionally, another goal of restorative justice is to have offenders come come to terms with the level of harm their actions have caused. For the last 20 or so years, Halbert has worked with a program called Bridges to Life.
00:34:30
Jeff Rogers
She and other survivors of violent crime visit with inmates across Texas and share their stories. They focus on victim impact. That is, how a perpetrator's actions have harmed not only victims, but their families, friends, and larger community. and And at the end of the show, they always ask the survivor why they survived.
00:34:50
Jeff Rogers
Ellen responded that she survived because she wasn't ready to go. and that is the story of Ellen Halbert. do love yourself a badass woman she's pretty awesome isn't she amazing and like everything that she's done since you know there's some people that we don't hear about much after like the stories that we tell right but she's taken what happened to her and she's turned it around and made it so that other people who have
00:35:22
Jeff Rogers
become victims themselves can feel empowered. It's wild. That's the great thing. It's amazing. She also got divorced from her husband, who was her husband at the time of the attack, because he wasn't, she said he was very narcissistic.
00:35:35
Jeff Rogers
And he would, you know that thing people do when you go through something bad, and they say, if you just do this, you'll get over it. Right. That was him, apparently. And so she was like, fuck right off. And she ended up right off getting married again, where she's happily married now, I think.
00:35:53
Jeff Rogers
To a decent human. And she hasn't met Wiggly, the man that did this to her, because Wiggly has never shown any remorse or any, like, why did you rape her? they asked him one time and he said, cause I wanted to.
00:36:07
Jeff Rogers
So, you know, she doesn't feel like he is he doesn't deserve. She's not going to get anything from it. Nope. But the fact that she believes in restorative justice, yeah I think is incredible after going through what she went through. And there's like a there's a threshold for it.
00:36:25
Jeff Rogers
You know, she's, she's not out there saying that like oh all the serial killers in the world are just need a little chat with their victims or their families. Like, Because she firmly, she believes in the death penalty as well.
00:36:37
Jeff Rogers
So she's like, you know, she's not just... she She's... Yeah. Very broad thoughts on the subject, you know? Yeah. That's...
00:36:49
Jeff Rogers
That's stellar. Yeah. She's fabulous. But okay, her attitude through the whole, ah and I watched this with Kim and Keith, and were just like, oh my God, I was like, i love her.
00:37:02
Jeff Rogers
Like,
Courtroom Realities and Victim Treatment
00:37:03
Jeff Rogers
she's like, how dare he think that he can do that to me. And I can just see her walking right into that courtroom and then being denied to listen to his testimony. Fuck off. Yeah, I would like to. So there's a part of it that's like maybe they were worried about re-victimizing her because some people, when they're exposed to that, like it causes more trauma. Right. And it was only three months after. So it's like that's fair.
00:37:26
Jeff Rogers
It's part of that thing where it's like, oh, we don't want to put her through this because she's going to have to feel that stuff again. yeah So they were maybe trying to save her. Hopefully, that was what it was. yeah And not something like, I don't know.
00:37:41
Jeff Rogers
Your turn. It is indeed. Mine's
The Enigma of Elizabeth Bathory
00:37:43
Jeff Rogers
quite different than yours. Okay. That's how we do it because we don't know each other's story. Remember that, people. we don't. We pick something that... Hers is about rainbows and lollipops and unicorns.
00:37:52
Jeff Rogers
Right, right. So let me preface this story with a couple of things. Because of how old it is, the information available varies widely. Some of it it sounds kind of contradictory.
00:38:05
Jeff Rogers
a lot of it might be speculation. um It's impossible to know the actual truth and then what are what accounts are based in fact and then what developed through folklore.
00:38:18
Jeff Rogers
But also, I'm very likely, most definitely going to butcher the pronunciation of a lot of these names. What language is it?
00:38:30
Jeff Rogers
Remember when I asked you to say that that word that started with C-J-S? Countess Elizabeth Bathory of Exed was born 1560 on the family estate in Hungary,
00:38:46
Jeff Rogers
She came from impressive heritage. Her father was Baron George VI Bathory. Her brother was Andrew Bonaventura Bathory, the ruler of Transylvania. Her uncle had been Stephen Bathory, the prince of Transylvania, who became king of Poland and the grand duke of Lithuania.
00:39:05
Jeff Rogers
Her family also included prominent members that served as judges, cardinals, and knights. So from such a lineage, she was obviously blessed with wealth, education, and a prominent social rank.
00:39:16
Jeff Rogers
She learned Latin, German, Hungarian, and Greek at a very young age. She was raised with the knowledge that she would be married to a man for social and political standing and to strengthen her family's reign. Because at the time... It's just always so fascinating to me.
00:39:31
Jeff Rogers
What? Like, you know, these people... They're not, like, any better than anybody else. They were just born. Exactly. into it. To a different circumstance.
00:39:41
Jeff Rogers
They're not better than anybody else. I don't know. That's just not. Well, like, her family. Exactly. Fuck off. You're not, like, better than anybody, okay? You were just born with a name. Yeah. Well, and and we we talked about this with other historical females. A couple of my stories recently have been about people who were born – long ago into wealth and privilege and they went to do extraordinary things, but had they been born in a lesser social class, they wouldn't have because they wouldn't have had access to it. Absolutely, yeah.
00:40:16
Jeff Rogers
So as a child, Elizabeth suffered from seizures, which they didn't know they were seizures at the time because it was 1560s, right? ah So at the time in history, a seizure disorder was treated One of two ways.
00:40:31
Jeff Rogers
Either rubbing the blood of a quote, non-sufferer on the lips of the sick one, or by having the sick one drink a concoction that was made out of a non-sufferer's blood and a piece of their skull bone. Your face.
00:40:50
Jeff Rogers
I mean, it's a 1560s, okay? Can we get an exorcism, please? Anybody? Can we get an exorcism? Yeah. So some people might say that that's a fitting treatment for someone in a family that's connected to Transylvania, right?
00:41:04
Jeff Rogers
So it also might be the foundation for some practices and activities that reportedly developed later in life. Serial killers. What?
00:41:15
Jeff Rogers
So in 1573, she was only 13, through a political arrangement, as expected, Elizabeth was betrothed to Count Furnick Nidacity, Okay.
00:41:28
Jeff Rogers
After the marriage in 1575, the pair shared an enviable amount of land in Hungary and Transylvania. Between the two of them and their families, they owned the whole fucking half of the world over there. Okay. all right So as a wedding president present, Nedacity gifted Elizabeth with the castle of Stete.
00:41:53
Jeff Rogers
Okay. I love it. He excelled as a soldier and led the charge to recapture Ottoman sea's territories. Throughout his war campaign, she was the primary guardian and in charge of the castle that he gifted her, the country house, and then 17 adjacent villages.
00:42:13
Jeff Rogers
So again, a large territory that takes up the majority, the majority of present day Slovakia. I'm going to give you a castle and 17 villages. Might as well.
00:42:23
Jeff Rogers
who Don't forget the country house. And the um exorcism. But, you know, different story. So together they had five children who all went on to be counts or duchesses or queens or whatever. Okay, they all did the same thing.
00:42:40
Jeff Rogers
So after 29 years of marriage that was semi-uneventful, there's nothing bad to be said about it, Furnick died of a debilitating unnamed disease in 1604 that he had been suffering from for three years.
00:42:55
Jeff Rogers
Upon his death, he left his heirs and widow in the care of Count Georgi Thurzo, who was a nobleman and the Palatine of Hungary, which was basically the prime minister. In 1610, as instructed by King Matthias II, Thurzo was tasked with an investigation into rumors and accusations that had begun to surface about Elizabeth after her husband died.
00:43:23
Jeff Rogers
By 1611, he had over 300 witnesses claiming that Elizabeth had spent years kidnapping, torturing, and killing peasants.
00:43:34
Jeff Rogers
Although it was not frowned upon for nobility to mistreat the lower class, it was not technically you know illegal or legal. It was just do it. Do it.
00:43:46
Jeff Rogers
Don't make a big scene about right? They're just peasants. Exactly. I mean, and she's got a castle and a country home and 17 villages. Yeah. She can do with it what she wants. So her trouble really started when she began killing daughters of the lesser nobility who had been sent to her for learning and benefiting from the social connections with her.
00:44:06
Jeff Rogers
Okay. So they were like, here, take my daughter, teach her how to be a lady. And she was like, well, instead, I've got other ideas. Okay. That's where her trouble started. That's where people started being like, whoa, who whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:44:17
Jeff Rogers
She's not just killing peasants now. All right. Some of her victims were drowned in ice water. Others were covered in honey and then left outside to be eaten by bears and bugs.
00:44:30
Jeff Rogers
Oh, my God. The torture also included driving needles into the victim's fingers and nails, biting chunks of flesh out of them, burning flesh. She would bite the chunks out of them?
00:44:44
Jeff Rogers
Mutilating the genitals. Reports claimed that she used to bathe in the blood of her victims to absorb their youth and beauty. In all, the claims were that she had killed approximately 650 girls women between 1590 and 1610.
00:44:59
Jeff Rogers
girls and young women between fifteen ninety and sixteen ten a number that was provided by in ah a court official who had apparently seen a written list of all of her victims and the torture they endured. oh my God.
00:45:13
Jeff Rogers
She became known as the blood countess or Countess Dracula and the most prolific female serial killer in history.
00:45:23
Jeff Rogers
The story is that she was instructed on Satanism by her uncle and mastered the art of sadomasochism through lessons with her aunt. Keep it all in the family, you know?
00:45:36
Jeff Rogers
After her marriage, Nadacity reportedly built her a personal torture chamber to keep her happy. Although he participated in some of the torture, reports claim that he actually kept her impulses in check and kind of kept her calm, you know? Like, let's not do that much, right?
00:45:54
Jeff Rogers
But after his death, her activities became much worse. Because, you know, the leash was cut, right? Yeah. She apparently started including a local witch and her former nurse in the worsening ministrations of evil.
00:46:09
Jeff Rogers
One such horror was making a victim cook and eat her own flesh that Elizabeth had bitten off.
00:46:18
Jeff Rogers
According to reports by Thurzo, again, the man that was tasked with taking care of her and the family when Furnack died, right? Once they had enough evidence against her, he entered the castle to arrest her and found her covered in blood in the middle of torturing a young girl while surrounded by the bodies of many others.
00:46:38
Jeff Rogers
In addition to Elizabeth, Thurzow also arrested four servants that he claimed were her accomplices. Some accountants claim that during the first trial for Elizabeth, 17 people testified, including the four servants who had been named as accomplices.
00:46:54
Jeff Rogers
Some sources claim that because of her political standing, she didn't go to trial at all. The four servants, however- mean, that's- Yeah. Exactly. I mean, she owned half the damn country. Her family was princes and kings and cardinals and knights and- they are the court. They are the court, exactly.
00:47:13
Jeff Rogers
So the the known fact is that the four servants did not receive trials. Okay. They were all tortured and brutalized. Two of them had their fingers violently removed with hot tongs and then were burned alive.
00:47:27
Jeff Rogers
One servant, because he was considered young and therefore believed to be less culpable, was given, quote, a less painful death by beheading. It's kind. Thank you for that.
00:47:42
Jeff Rogers
The fourth servant initially evaded capture, but was apprehended and burned alive. Jesus. Yeah. Reportedly, before their deaths, these servants, who initially denied all accusations, ended up confessing that this had all, yes, in fact, gone on and claimed that they were acting directly on Elizabeth's orders.
00:48:03
Jeff Rogers
After this happened, Thurzo wrote to King Matthias explaining that he had captured and confined her. Her family, all of those absurdly powerful and wealthy people, fought for her during and after the trials.
00:48:17
Jeff Rogers
Although Thurzo attempted to initiate proceedings against some of the other family members, nothing ever came of it. Due to the public scandal, her property was at risk of being seized by the Crown.
00:48:28
Jeff Rogers
So everything that she owned, all those properties that she and Fernet had gotten together and thrived on, um were at risk of being taken away.
00:48:42
Jeff Rogers
Thurzo and two of her sons attempted to get Elizabeth sent to a nunnery as her sentence, because that's always the solution. But as her story spread throughout the country, they determined that it would probably just be best to keep her under strict house arrest, which is a very loose term because she lived in a fucking castle. Like, this is a house arrest or is it just a vacation, right?
00:49:05
Jeff Rogers
So although Thurzo wrote that Elizabeth had been locked in a brick room, later documents from visiting priests attested that she was actually free to roam about the entire castle. Of course.
00:49:16
Jeff Rogers
She's a lady. Yeah. So over the recent years, questions began surfacing about the validity of the accusations. As we learned when we heard about Catherine the Great, you know, my lady that I talked about way back in the day.
00:49:29
Jeff Rogers
Sex room. Oh, yeah. Men throughout history did not take kindly to women in power. Some scholars believe that she was innocent of all of the charges against her.
00:49:40
Jeff Rogers
They claim that she was the target of a politically motivated frame job. Evidence suggests that she was instrumental in the education of countless young women and even owned a printing press, which at the time was kind of unheard of, especially for a female.
00:49:54
Jeff Rogers
Due to her religious beliefs, because they varied from the kings and the culture at the time, she was a threat to other reigning nobility simply because of her knowledge and the ability to share that information widely.
00:50:07
Jeff Rogers
This alone was enough to make many men uncomfortable. In addition to her audacity to be educated and teach other women, she and her family controlled an unbelievably sizable amount of land and resources.
00:50:21
Jeff Rogers
Hungary was rolling from the war that they were dealing with, and then endless conflicts that were just repetitive regarding politics and religion and everything like that. So Elizabeth V. Morton raised a Calvinist Protestant and was in possession of extensive wealth and land,
00:50:38
Jeff Rogers
The House of Habsburg, which is also known as the House of Austria, was one of the most powerful dynasties in the history of Europe. They were Catholic and attempting to do a little expansion, and they wanted her property.
00:50:51
Jeff Rogers
In addition, after Elizabeth's arrest, which was ins ensured by the investigation that unfolded at the request of King Matthias, a very, very large debt that he happened to owe her, conveniently disappeared.
00:51:07
Jeff Rogers
Hmm. So Prince Gabor Bathory, which was Elizabeth's nephew, the ruler in Transylvania, he was extremely influential in influential in the Ottoman-backed Hungarian independence from the Habsburgs.
00:51:22
Jeff Rogers
It was well known that Prince Gabor was also itching to challenge King Matthias for the Hungarian throne. Elizabeth's land included many strongholds and fortresses that could have provided the means for him to initiate this campaign against the thrones.
00:51:38
Jeff Rogers
Thurzo, again, the man who's trying to take care of her, right? Also stood to benefit from her removal from power. He was an ally of King Matthias and had been involved in an attempted assassination of Prince Gabor.
00:51:52
Jeff Rogers
He also made it very well known that he intended to have his son take over the throne of Transylvania. So how better to attain her wealth and land than to disgrace her and turn her into this monster, right?
00:52:05
Jeff Rogers
There was never any documented accusation or complaint against her. Oh. So during a period of time when every little thing was written down and documented, every complaint was written down.
00:52:19
Jeff Rogers
Someone was taken to court or whatever. Like even the theft of a chicken or the death of a cow, all of it was written down. Okay. So it's super odd that historians and scholars can't find any letters regarding these reported crimes.
00:52:34
Jeff Rogers
Nothing was happening, right? So of all Thurzo's reported 300 witnesses that he claimed said she had done this, none was a victim or an eyewitness to any torture or killing.
00:52:48
Jeff Rogers
They were merely repeating hearsay that had been spread around. Some of them didn't provide any information at all. They just said, oh yeah, she's a bad guy. The vast majority of the witnesses were open supporters of Thurzo and King Mathias.
00:53:02
Jeff Rogers
The court official who claimed that he saw that list of victims never actually provided testimony. The claims about the bodies that were seen or found in her castle were thought that likely they were about, as the ruler of the region, her castle was where medical attention was sought.
00:53:23
Jeff Rogers
So young people, young women, anyone who had an ailment in any of the 17 surrounding villages came to the castle for medical care. So yeah, there were bodies all over the place because it was 1560s and people just dropped out of random stuff, right?
00:53:37
Jeff Rogers
So um she oversaw all of the medical care of the people herself as well. wow The sick and the unwell were brought to the castle to be cared for by her and her servants. The confessions of those accused servants also couldn't be considered reliable because initially they said, this is all bullshit. We didn't do any of this.
00:53:57
Jeff Rogers
And then they get tortured to near death. And then they say, yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right i mean, of course, they're going to say that whatever they need to say because royalty there royalty. And if they didn't say what they needed to say, then, you know, they're out of here. Right.
00:54:14
Jeff Rogers
Maybe the king and Thurzo initiated and completed a witch hunt in a time where people were frequently and easily burned at the stake as witches. She was enough of a threat to their comfort to be targeted.
00:54:29
Jeff Rogers
She was a powerful, educated, extremely wealthy woman with no husband and a family that ruled a large and powerful region. They had to remove her from power. Their intended aim was to discredit her and seize control of her extensive assets.
00:54:43
Jeff Rogers
However, at the end of 1610, before her arrest, Elizabeth had completed a will that named her children as the heirs to all of her property, wealth, and possessions. It stands to reason that she never went to trial, and she was never officially convicted of a crime because her family was able to retain all of her holdings.
00:55:03
Jeff Rogers
If she had been accused and convicted of this, she would have been an enemy to the crown, all of it would have been seized. Yeah. So maybe she really was the thing of nightmares and the inspiration for Bram Stoker's Dracula, which is what was reported.
00:55:19
Jeff Rogers
Maybe she did have a taste for blood and got a throw from the carnage that she left in her wake. Who knows? On August 20th, 1614, Elizabeth reportedly complained to one of her guards that she wasn't feeling well and that her hands felt cold.
00:55:33
Jeff Rogers
He dismissed it and told her, Mistress, go lay down for the night. She went to sleep and never woke again. She was found dead in her bed on August 21st, 1614 at the age 54. sixteen fourteen at the age of fifty four Wow.
00:55:44
Jeff Rogers
some say she was simply a brutal bully to her servants and other lowerclass people but not a serial killer some say that her cruelty was unrivalled and there's no doubt that she committed these nightmarishs unfortunately five hundred years after the fact there is still no definitive way to confirm her reign of terror or exonerate her of these claims Wow, that was interesting.
00:56:07
Jeff Rogers
took me on a ride there. did. Yeah. Did she do it? Did she not do it? I don't think she did it. I think she was probably just kind of a bitch because she was basically a queen. So, yeah, maybe she didn't treat people great, but I don't think she did it.
00:56:21
Jeff Rogers
Or was she a bitch because like the men couldn't handle her being forthright and, ah you know. Educated. Educated, Yeah, and and had the audacity to be a different religion than the ruling people.
00:56:34
Jeff Rogers
monarch at the time yeah cool right good job different different yeah that was different very historical you're welcome yeah and that was good um what else we got anything else uh i don't know did you tell everyone to rate us yet did i did i tell everybody to rate us i don't know maybe we should tell them rate us you over there hey hey you on your golf cart on your lawnmower You in space.
00:57:01
Jeff Rogers
You on the moon. You on the stars. Rate us. Review us. yeah Give us some love.
00:57:12
Jeff Rogers
think That's it. um yeah yeah That's it, Alan. Alan, i hope this one works for you, buddy. You're overqualified, underpaid, master publisher extraordinaire.
00:57:24
Jeff Rogers
And Ashley, our ultimate and epically unmatched hype queen editor. And Kelsey. God damn, Kelsey. You outdid yourself as our swag and merch creator.
00:57:35
Jeff Rogers
Absolutely. I mean, we actually have like... Tons. Swaggable stuff. Yeah. We got swag. We got swag. Not to be confused with swagger. We don't have We do not, no.
00:57:47
Jeff Rogers
Dan, Daniel, Dan, love you. You're friendly neighborhood supporter from the beginning. So thanks, guys. Yes, thank you. And together, they're our first and forever.
00:57:59
Jeff Rogers
bye