Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Season 3, Episode 20 - Abbie Peterson
85 Plays2 years ago
Kindergarten Chaos returns! Abbie Peterson, the original cohost of the podcast, makes her return to talk about her adventures since her last conversation. She discusses her time in other schools across the country and what she sees as important items for teachers these days. The future of education also comes up in this enlightening conversation.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Abigail Pearson
00:00:02
Speaker
you
00:00:12
Speaker
Good afternoon and welcome back. Today's guest, God bless her. She is currently kind enough to keep fighting through some technical difficulties, which is great, but we got her back here. She is the original co-host of It's All About Perspective and someone that I greatly enjoy talking to. Ms. Abigail Pearson, how are you? Hello, Mr. Robert Hinchliffe. Thank you for having me back. I missed all these days of all our technical trial and errors and mess ups, but thank you for having me back.
00:00:43
Speaker
Well, you know, I feel like, you know, because I haven't had many issues since you left it. Maybe you may have something. Maybe I was the problem. Hi, it's me. I'm the problem. It's me.
Abigail's Global Reach on Social Media
00:00:53
Speaker
Yes. In the words of Taylor Swift, right? Well, that depends on who you ask if she's a problem. But anyways, you know, it is what it is. Thanks for being back. I know you're busy and I know that you have a lot going on, so I appreciate your time.
00:01:12
Speaker
No, I appreciate you having me back. It's been great to watch you over the last, I think you said 20 episodes, right? That you've been doing by yourself. This is number 20, yeah. Congratulations on that. It's been a pleasure watching you from the sidelines, interviewing and having conversations with a variety of people. And I think diversity is great. I think it's been great, your conversations you've been having and opening the ears of new listeners. So congratulations again. And thank you for having me again.
00:01:40
Speaker
Oh, thank you, thank you, I'm trying. I'm trying to get people to understand all that goes on in this crazy business and to get them to look at it from a different point of view. It's a challenge, but by having so many different people on, hopefully I can do that. So now
Career Journey and Current Role
00:01:57
Speaker
that you're out of this arena and not fighting technical difficulties, what are you up to these days? Are you just doing your thing through Instagram and TikTok? How many TikTok followers do you have now?
00:02:10
Speaker
Um, it's close to, um, I want to say close to 50,000 close to 50. I thought you were over a hundred. Is that her Instagram on Instagram? Yes, but not tick tock. Okay. But I,
00:02:25
Speaker
Hey, whatever platform you can use to reach teachers and bring ideas. I love hands-on learning. I love sharing ideas. And you know, the amazing thing is over the last, I would say a year and a half, I've really reached a really broad audience international. So I have a lot of teachers from different countries that follow me and reach out to me and ask questions and
00:02:51
Speaker
I love that. I love that. So it's not just stateside anymore. It's kind of global. And what a way to make an impact outside of a classroom. So how are you? Like, are you traveling around? I mean, we don't talk much. I know you travel occasionally, but like, what have you been up to? How are you? How are you reaching the masses?
00:03:13
Speaker
I have a passion, such a passion for education. And I have a passion for helping educators in whatever way I can. That's just me. I do not think I could ever sit by the sidelines and just do nothing. That's just not
Initial Impressions of Schools and Staff Rapport
00:03:26
Speaker
in my DNA. And so a couple of years ago, when we were doing the podcast together, I had an opportunity to work for an online university doing
00:03:36
Speaker
supervising student teachers. And I really enjoyed that. I did that for over two years, enjoyed it, gave me a lot of great experience, gave me a lot of, you know, just perspective from different grade levels and watching lessons and watching student behaviors in action and good lessons and lessons that needed some feedback. So it was great. And then I recently just moved into a position
00:04:03
Speaker
where I am an instructional coach and I travel across the United States working with all different types of districts, small, medium, large, and with admin, with instructional coaches, with literacy strategists, and then teachers, and working with them. So again, I still get to have my passion of working with educators and teachers, but it's in a different venue.
00:04:30
Speaker
Do you find going all over the country that when you walk into a building, you can tell this is going to be a great day or this is going to be a rough day just by the vibe of the front office?
00:04:45
Speaker
So it's interesting because I was in a tiny little school district in Texas. Then I was in a bigger, a larger school district in Texas. And then I was in a very small district in Wisconsin and a large district in Chicago. So I've been around to some different districts. And
Feedback and Receptivity in Education
00:05:05
Speaker
regardless of where I've went, it's been interesting to me because when I've walked in the front door that I haven't always been able to get the vibe right away. And I thought maybe I would.
00:05:15
Speaker
But I can tell you that it's been a pleasure to work with different administrators. And one off the top of my head, she made such an impact on me because as we were walking through the building, we ran into what I found out later was an instructional aide. And she knew everything about her dog, about this aide's dog. And they had a
00:05:42
Speaker
conversation about it. And she talked about getting the dog a bone for Christmas. And immediately I knew this admin is invested in her staff, not just her teachers, but her staff. And I could tell just in that interaction, I was just I was just an observer. And I thought, wow. And she just her rapport with everyone in the school, she said hello, she acknowledged people. She was positive. And it was just amazing to see. And it really made a great impression on me.
00:06:14
Speaker
So you make me think, because when people come, I'll say hi to staff members by, you know, I'm on a mission, so maybe I need to stop and still take the time, even though I'm walking someone to a certain area to still check on people as humans. So I'm reflecting on that piece. Do you find, so you're going into classrooms,
00:06:40
Speaker
How is that going? Because when we go in as admin and we provide feedback, sometimes they don't even hear us, it's white noise. Some people, like the runners, they want all the feedback. Even back when I used to supervise you, I'd give you something and the next day you'd have it down.
00:06:57
Speaker
Are you finding it in some cases difficult to work with these people that you're trying to help or are they respectful to you because you are not an admin and so therefore you're just there to help them? I think
00:07:13
Speaker
I think even speaking for myself, when you would come in, there's always a bit of nervousness. And I wrote a quote one time that said, when you're nervous, that means you care. And that's something that's kind of stuck with me. Because anytime you can get butterflies and you're a little bit nervous, it's because you care. You care about your craft. You care about what you're doing. You care about your attitude and your perspective on things.
00:07:39
Speaker
And so I think anytime somebody goes into someone else's domain, I think it's natural for teachers or for anybody to be a little bit apprehensive and a little bit, even if they seek feedback and even if they desire to know what
00:07:59
Speaker
you know, how do I, how do I make this better? How do I, um, you know, what pieces do I need to do to increase engagement or to better help my students understand something? But I think overall there's still apprehension. There's apprehension, especially when you don't know somebody and you don't know. So, um, I try to, I always try to take the perspective of, um,
00:08:27
Speaker
My sister calls it a psychological sandwich where you have like a positive and then a feedback and then a positive. You're just nicer than I am because I use it. Sorry, Abby. I call it a shit sandwich. Sorry.
00:08:43
Speaker
because you're putting the poop in the middle, you know, like you got the good and then the poop and then the, you know, the bread. And I guess, you know, and this is one thing that we used to talk about a lot was it's not always a, it's not always bad. Feedback is not always bad. Feedback sometimes, you know, when we talk about our students, we talk about our growth mindset.
00:09:08
Speaker
It's not a bad thing that you got it wrong. But mistakes are a part of learning. And even adults make mistakes. And we have to learn to have that growth mindset within ourselves, even as adults. That doesn't mean that it's a negative. It just means like, how do we grow from here?
00:09:26
Speaker
How much of that is based upon your personality, though? Because, I mean, I don't know how many teachers you've worked with, but I've worked with a few, where no matter what you say, it's a negative. It's negative. You're just picking on me, or I'm not going to listen to you. So how much of that is based upon your disposition? Well, it is personality. We do know that. We do know personality plays a lot into how we receive things.
00:09:56
Speaker
But I can only, this is one thing we've talked about multiple times. I share now, I can only control this 360 degrees or little orbit around my body. That's it. That's all I can control. I can't control what other people do, what other people say, what other people think and the actions of others. I can only control
Control and Adaptability in Education
00:10:17
Speaker
myself. So I get to choose to be happy. I get to choose to be positive. Those are the choices that I make.
00:10:24
Speaker
And so I can't base my reactions on what somebody else does or say. You're not wrong. So John Hattie's basically we're doing podcast studies at Thompson and Hattie said something to where people need to get better at taking the feedback.
00:10:44
Speaker
And that's probably pretty true because no matter what, you can put a positive spin on every piece of feedback you get. It really comes down to, do you want to make it better or not? Do you value the opinion of the person giving it to you? But regardless, if you take the feedback and you chew on it for a little bit, you can find some positive in it if you want to grow. Would you agree? Yes.
00:11:10
Speaker
Well, thank you. That was the easiest agreement I got out of you in 20 years. Yeah. Plus the time that we worked together. But have you had any teacher that you could just tell was a curmudgeon? Like he or she just did not care.
00:11:27
Speaker
because you're a pretty straightforward person. And if someone was just not giving you the time of day, I just don't know how it would go. Time has changed me. Time immaturity has changed me because I'll tell you this. Now I can look at people and I can say, I can look at someone and I can say, well,
00:11:54
Speaker
Their feelings on this are valid because they're overwhelmed, because they're frustrated. It's just like when you and I both, we both have kids and they're all older now, but when you have babies and they're having a fit, why? What is the reason behind it? There's a reason most of the time.
00:12:17
Speaker
And so as I've gotten older and I've matured and I've worked with a lot more people, I recognize a lot of times the reasoning behind the attitude or the negativity is because they're frustrated or they're upset or there's something that's causing it. It's not just because, you know,
00:12:38
Speaker
because I walked in the building. It's just, it's just because there's a, there's a reason behind it. And I have to, I have to not take things so personal. Because you know why? Because in the end,
00:12:51
Speaker
It's all about perspective. If you can take, I think that's one of the things that I've tried to impress upon people. Zero tolerance doesn't work. You have to understand the reasoning behind why people do things. It cannot be, you know, everybody gets this. It has to be case by case. You don't know if that teacher's dog just died today. You don't know if their grandma's in the hospital. You don't know a lot of things. And so to get another person's perspective on
00:13:20
Speaker
the thing that you're teaching and why they don't like it or why they are frustrated. If you were in Clark County, you get in there and someone might be like, we don't have a contract yet. My principal wants me to do this. I don't want to do this. These parents are mean, these kids are bad. Their perspective is valid to them. It might not be valid to us or the other part of the world. Then it's taking that knowledge and using it to your advantage. Would you agree with that?
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah, I yes, I think that I think overall you have to you have to be able to look at humanity and understand you know where Where people are at and you're not gonna understand you're not gonna have insight into every single person's life and every single person situation There's no way absolutely no way most of the time, you know, we barely have a grasp of our own family, you know in our own personal circle of people and
00:14:19
Speaker
And unless people are open and honest and come out and share what's happening, a lot of times it's easier for people to just stay in their own little bubble and not share. And so ultimately, like I said,
00:14:37
Speaker
It all comes down to I can only control the 360 around myself. That's it. That's it. Yeah, you're
Balancing Tradition and Innovation in Education
00:14:44
Speaker
not wrong. So you've been around. You've also been to Vegas. You are now no longer, quote unquote, a teacher in the classroom.
00:14:52
Speaker
In your opinion, I'll give you mine afterwards, what are today's educators missing? Now we're generalizing, hugely generalizing because it certainly does not apply to everybody. But if you had to pick one area that educators are struggling in, what area might that be? That's a tough question because I have seen education change even over the last three years.
00:15:22
Speaker
And it seems like parenting has changed. I have seen more lawnmower parents in the last three years than in the last 15 years. So we went from helicopter parents to lawnmower parents. And so I'm not, I'm not exactly sure. I'll give you mine and then you can agree or maybe I'll spare one for you.
00:15:53
Speaker
I feel like intuition, you're gonna agree with that word, common sense might be a little harsh, but there just seems to be a lot of things that people are doing that they shouldn't, or they can't adapt. They feel like they have to just follow this guideline or follow that to get to the end, when in reality we know teaching doesn't work like that.
00:16:23
Speaker
I think that there is a, and I think sometimes that comes with a sense of like getting in trouble. You know, I think teachers are afraid of getting in trouble. I would say 99% of teachers are in it because, you know,
00:16:43
Speaker
They loved teaching. They loved teaching. They loved kids. They got into teaching for the right reasons. And then I think there's a lot of things that happen along the way. And teachers, they want to do what's best. They want to do what's best for their students. They want to do
00:17:00
Speaker
I don't know of any teacher that's like that goes into the classroom and says, well, I just want to do a horrible job. I just don't want my students to learn. I don't really know any teachers like that. And I think I think what inhibits teachers a lot of times is the fear is the fear of
00:17:20
Speaker
you know, being wrong and what's wrong, you know, being wrong or being judged or being, you know, being embarrassed because they didn't have the answers or being put in the spotlight in a negative way. And I think that that almost makes, you know, it makes teachers hesitant. It makes them hesitant because
00:17:48
Speaker
They don't want to be wrong. They really want to do what's right. They want to follow the rules, you know? And it's funny because I'm like, who makes the rules? I mean, I guess the admin makes the rules, you know? But then if you're in the district, the district makes, you know, so it's a long chain of command. I think it comes down to, I think I've said this to you before. I know I've said it on the podcast. It's just control.
00:18:18
Speaker
People want to control, like a teacher wants to control their environment so they don't get in trouble. Admin wants to control their environment so they don't get in trouble. On up the chain, you know, superintendent wants to control the district because ultimately his job's on the line. It comes down to control. But what I found is, is that when I have less control,
00:18:39
Speaker
there tends to be better outcomes. So back when we were together, pretty much just let you do what you wanted to do. And I think if I would have put rains on the thoroughbred, I'm not entirely sure that you would have had as excellent outcomes as you had. Well, like I said, it's interesting to me to see how
00:19:04
Speaker
education has changed over the last 20 years. And it's interesting to me how technology has changed tremendously. And we went from chalkboards to whiteboards to Promethean boards to now there's these fancy boards that are touchscreen and even Elmos are like going away because there's like so many
00:19:35
Speaker
everything is moving at such a rapid pace and we're trying to keep up with that, you know? So I think it's, I think it's very interesting and especially watching from the sidelines. But I feel like too, and I don't know if you can, you know, ask people this or if you want to, I feel like so much of that is yes, people want control and yes, they do not want to get in trouble. But I feel like it's my job as an admin to say, try new things, please.
00:20:05
Speaker
If people didn't try new things, we wouldn't have whiteboards and Prometheus and flat panels. We'd still be using chalk. So I think that's incumbent upon myself and other admin to say, try new things. Just think it through. Just don't do it. I mean, don't try to, you know, let's not build campfires in a classroom or something. But, you know, try new things because the new thing might lead to another new thing, which might lead to better outcomes. And so many people are afraid to try new things.
00:20:36
Speaker
That is true. That is true. But I think overall, there has to be a game plan. There has to be some sort of path.
Adapting to New Educational Research
00:20:51
Speaker
And it seems to be that the path is not always clear for everyone.
00:21:00
Speaker
So you've been out of the classroom for three years now, I believe. Four. This is four. I'm sorry. You left the same year I left Smith. From your vantage point now, I mean, COVID obviously, let's just take the last two years. The world, the profession seems to be going back to what they did in 2019. I feel like they're gravitating right back into that.
00:21:23
Speaker
Where do you see education going? Again, you have a perspective of being able to go to various states. Where do you see things going, kind of taking in the nationwide landscape? Well, I'm going to go back to a conversation you and I had in 2019.
00:21:45
Speaker
And we had your memories. Excellent. Yes, it is. It is. I do admit to that. I do. I don't don't tell me anything because I do remember it. But you and I had a conversation and I had been to some conferences and I had also the
00:22:07
Speaker
the opportunity to present at different conferences. And, you know, really I've been very privileged in the fact that I've been able to travel. I've been able to go to, you know, lots of, um, the one year you sent me to the national brain conference in San Francisco. And that was amazing that, I mean, I learned so many things about the brain and how the brain operates and how it affects our teaching and how it affects students learning. And so I've had so many fabulous opportunities over the years.
00:22:36
Speaker
And there was something in, well, after going to several conferences, you and I had a conversation, and I told you, I said, FYI, these are the three things I think are coming down the pike in education. And what I said was trauma-informed education. Yes, you did. I remember this. I said, science of reading. Yup. And I said, SEL. And those are the three things. You did, and we were in your classroom. I remember this now.
00:23:01
Speaker
So- I know where I was. These are the three things that I shared in 2019 and they're not new. They just, I just was watching as, it's kind of like growth mindset. When we did it, we were on the precipice of that many years ago. We did a book study many, many years ago. And there was very little materials out there besides Carol Dweck's book.
00:23:26
Speaker
But we had an opportunity to really put that into practice and share it and share it with schools and share, you know, we made t-shirts and all kinds of things. And I'm not saying we started the movement. I'm just saying that we were on that on the on the precipice of it. And I feel like
00:23:43
Speaker
I was watching as this was ushered in. I really didn't even know what science of reading was. I just knew like I could almost sense the rumblings and it was like it was popping up here and there and I had to go do my own research and you know I over the last you know four years I've learned so much and I just see that as you know what we have learned about education in the last 25 years
00:24:11
Speaker
And I'm going to say something that we all know, but a sign of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. And so over the last 25 years in education, we have watched some of the same things be done year after year after year. And we're not seeing, we're not seeing progress. We're not seeing our scores increase. We're not seeing overall mastery of, of especially literacy school skills.
00:24:38
Speaker
you know, they're not on the same trajectory that they were. And so what are we doing? Where is the catch? And so I see now as the tide is starting to turn, and I say the ship is starting to turn, and it's a cruise ship, it's not a dinghy, so it takes a long time for it to turn. It doesn't take
00:25:00
Speaker
You know, and so I just see it as education is trying to catch up to current research and kind of put those practices into action and into motion. That's what I see. Okay,
Creating Inviting Schools for Student Engagement
00:25:22
Speaker
so I believe, maybe we'll differ on this one.
00:25:29
Speaker
My belief is that if kids don't like coming to school, they're not gonna come to school in today's day and age. When we went to school, it didn't matter if you didn't like it or you had the meanest teacher ever, you got up and you went to school. I believe unfortunately, or maybe fortunately for us, is that we are now contending with social media and parents that don't necessarily value education. And we have to make school a place that kids want to come.
00:25:56
Speaker
And if they don't want to be there, they're not invested in it. They're not going to give their best effort. So going along the lines of that is my belief that no matter what program or what topic or whatever, if you don't connect with kids somehow and make them want to be there, you're never going to get the best out of them. And I'm not entirely sure how many principals or how many superintendents understand that
00:26:23
Speaker
You can give a teacher every resource you want in the world, but if that person cannot connect with kids, it's not gonna matter. I can say overarching in all of the schools that I have been in over the last few years, I would say every single school that I walk into, they are there for the kids and I see all kinds of programs.
00:26:49
Speaker
You know, I know you have the fat head program at your school and you have, you know, every school has their overarching, I see carts of treats and I see, you know, bulletin boards with opportunities for students to meet their goals. So I see a lot of schools, every school is really working to, you know,
00:27:15
Speaker
to meet kids where they're at and to make school, you know, fun. But at the same time, there's that balance of, you know, where do we have that balance? Because not everything in life is fun. Not everything in life. And it's subjective. Fun is subjective. So what we think fun is and what somebody else think fun is, is subjective.
00:27:38
Speaker
That's valid. You have to make it inviting. That might be a better word.
Personal Growth and Educational Change
00:27:41
Speaker
And you have to have balance. Even at Thompson, we make it inviting. I mean, today, I was Buddy the Elf and we got a huge sand in the main hallway and there's inflatables everywhere. And it's inviting and it makes kids excited.
00:27:57
Speaker
But the same point time we just had map last week and there's expectations. There's an expectation you're supposed to learn. You're supposed to walk through the courtyard. You're supposed to raise your hand in the lunchroom before you get up. So there is a balance, but I don't know if people can swing the pendulum and get it to find the right spot.
00:28:18
Speaker
I'm not saying we're perfect. I mean, we have issues too. But my fear is that some schools want to swing the pendulum way over and control, control, control, or they want to swing it way over and we got to be fun, fun, fun. And finding the balance is the key, I believe. And I think you said the key word and the key word is balance, you know, because finding that balance, but
00:28:43
Speaker
Again, the older I get, the more that I realize I've becoming, I don't want to say a softie, but it's very subjective. It's very subjective because somebody's balance says, well, this is the right balance. And somebody else says, this is the right balance. So again, I think ultimately we're just responsible for our own actions. We're responsible for our own words. We're responsible for the choices that we make and the things that are in our control.
00:29:11
Speaker
That's ultimately what it comes down to. How long do you think it's going to take for the boat to turn? How long do you think it's going to take for the science of reading to catch on or the science to change? Because science changes over time.
00:29:29
Speaker
How long do you think things are going to take before they get better or are they going to get better? I think we have I think one thing that works in our advantage in 2023 going into 2024 is we have the technology that we're able now we're doing brain scans on kids as they're reading and we're able to use technology to determine
00:29:53
Speaker
You know what synapses are firing and what new neuron connections are being made, whereas 3540 years ago that wasn't really an option. You know, they weren't able to do use the kind of technology to determine how kids learn and what.
00:30:11
Speaker
What exactly do kids need to make those connections? It's like the brain research that we learned, even about Hattie and his effect sizes. We know that we need to have at least 25 different exposures to a concept to master it. And so when we know these things, it's like the know better, do better. It's like when you know these things, you're able to put that into play. But when you don't know them, how can you change it?
00:30:41
Speaker
So I think it's important though, I agree with you, like Hattie's updated now it's like one to four for the, for the kid that can get it. And then it's like 40 to 50 for the students to struggle, but you're like.
00:30:53
Speaker
It's like, I think it's a constant, you have to have a constant growth mindset and adaptability to it. And that's hard for a lot of teachers because they just get something figured out. I just get this figured out and then now you want me to change this. Or I just now have this and now you want me to do that. If we don't have adaptability, I think that's going to cause a lot of struggle also.
00:31:19
Speaker
And sadly. Let's talk about just something that came to my mind. OK. We both have newer cars. Let's just say newer than 2015, correct? Yes, it is. My husband just got a new truck just three weeks ago. Well, within the last month, my husband got a brand new truck, OK? OK. Everything on new vehicles is run off of computers. That could or could not be good, but you are correct.
00:31:49
Speaker
And so when your check engine light comes on, you know, we've had older vehicles and my husband has had to go take them to AutoZone and get the little plugin thing and read the code.
00:32:00
Speaker
Okay. Well, 35 years ago, probably less than that, you had to get under the hood. You had to get under the hood and you had to look for broken hoses and I am not a mechanic. So I do not know the terminology, but you had to, you had to, you know, and now mechanics
00:32:19
Speaker
You know, they're working with computers and some cars you cannot even fix without the computer without the mechanics computer to diagnose and to, you know, compute this and compute this.
00:32:35
Speaker
And I think that's an example of how something has evolved over time. You cannot continue the same type of remedy when things are changing. So if you still want a car that takes a, like I said, I don't even know, because I'm not a mechanic, I know really nothing about cars, but that means you'll have to probably get a car from the 90s.
00:33:04
Speaker
And instead of a car, that's a 2020 or, you know, or newer because they're all run on computers. Yes. In a way you just described, you know, the mechanic is the teacher because they need to be able to quote unquote fix various and assorted kinds of kids. And some kids are more easily. I don't know. And fixable is not the right word, but malleable.
00:33:34
Speaker
than others, and ultimately, if you are the mechanic and you don't stay caught up with the times, you're gonna go out of business. We're getting off on a crazy tangent with cars, but teaching is like that. You have to adapt. If you didn't adapt to use, look, I wrote about this in the book with Brad Johnson. COVID required everybody to adapt to the times. Absolutely. Everybody had to figure out how to do things online.
00:34:03
Speaker
And I see areas that that has infiltrated education. For example, programs have a lot of online components now. There's teachers who do slideshows to teach all the time now.
00:34:19
Speaker
And again, we as teachers and educators have to adapt and a lot of people do not want to. Or maybe they can't. Maybe they're in a small town that doesn't have a lot of funds or revenue. And it's hard to get a new computer or hard things like that. But we have to adapt or we're going to die as a profession. I just really believe that. And I think overall, I think just really what it comes down to is change is hard for anybody.
00:34:50
Speaker
Change is hard. A personal example is my parents were married for 40 years. My parents were married very young. My parents spent their whole
00:35:02
Speaker
you know, young adulthood and adulthood together. And my mom passed away at 57. My parents were just six months shy of 40 years. And my dad remarried as a 58 year old, not that that's old, but an older man. And the challenges that he faced
00:35:23
Speaker
as a newly married 58 year old man compared to when he was 18 was huge, was huge. Nobody likes change. And I'm like I said, it's a personal story and I feel at liberty to say that but
00:35:37
Speaker
You know, his expectations were, it was a struggle because he was used to how my mom did things and how things, you know, they did things.
Teacher Resilience and Change Embrace
00:35:47
Speaker
Well, all of a sudden you're not in the same boat anymore. You have somebody who's different, who was raised different, who hasn't been with you these last 40 years. And so change is hard. Adaptability is hard, you know? And I think all humans, I would say the exception is young people. And I think we see this in younger teachers a lot.
00:36:08
Speaker
We always say that kids are resilient, and they're adept at changing. And I think younger teachers are as well, but I think as you get older, you like your things a certain way, you like your coffee a certain way, you like your bed a certain way. We all have our little idiosyncrasies of things we like, and so change is hard.
00:36:32
Speaker
And I think that's just a human nature thing. And I think overall, the one thing I've noticed, especially in the last four years, is I have seen teachers, even though they don't like change, they still embrace the change because they have to. And then
Competitive Landscape and Adaptation of Public Education
00:36:57
Speaker
sometimes they will say,
00:36:59
Speaker
Oh, well, I found out I really like this. You know, first I didn't like it, but now I like it. So I think it's human nature. I don't know that they embrace the change. Some go kicking and screaming.
00:37:16
Speaker
But you're not wrong in the fact that, you know, when you try, it goes back to saying, just try something new. You might find something, a piece of it that you like. You know, like with HMH at Thompson this year, I'm like, just find the good. Just find the good that works for you and next year build it in. And that was a struggle just with that, because they had their flow down, they knew where they wanted to go, and now all of a sudden, I gotta go find the good.
00:37:44
Speaker
It's just an interesting profession in so many ways. And when you look at any other profession, I mean, if you're a doctor, now you're doing 3D. Some people, I think I saw a thing or heard thing where now doctors, they're trying to make it to where doctors can operate through robots on people when they're not even in the same room or the same state.
00:38:05
Speaker
Like, that is crazy when you think about it. You know, if you have heart surgery, do you want the guy from New York, you know, and you live in Vegas using the, you know, a computer or a robot, but that's, you know, that's where things are going to... What if the internet goes down?
00:38:23
Speaker
Oh, man, I didn't even think about that. You're like, you know, you're just, you're just getting ready to cut the aorta. And yeah, that's not good. That's not a good thought at all. But you know, like we have to adapt and adjust. If we don't.
00:38:39
Speaker
our results in 25 years from now, our results are going to be lackluster. I think too,
Promoting the Teaching Profession Positively
00:38:44
Speaker
if we as public educators don't start to do more successful things, charter and private are going to rule the day very soon. School choice is getting really big. I'm not a school choice person because I think you should fix the school that you're in, but
00:39:05
Speaker
Results matter. Results absolutely matter. They matter in everything else except for education in a lot of ways, but I see now school choice is starting to become quite prevalent because why send my precious little baby to that school that's failing when I can go, you know, I can drive a mile to a school that's successful.
00:39:27
Speaker
I think the next few years in education are going to be interesting across the board because again, new technologies, a lot of challenges that we're facing. One report that I read, which I know you're on top of is
00:39:45
Speaker
the absenteeism that's going on across the United States. It's not just in Clark County. It's not just in Nevada. It's all over the United States. And it has not regained since 2020. It has not regained since pre pandemic levels. Do you think this is a good one? Do you think COVID
00:40:14
Speaker
caused a lot of people to realize they don't need school. They don't need to, wait, let me rephrase that. Let me rephrase that. I actually listened to a, sorry, we're both. Let me rephrase that. Okay. Do you think COVID caused students to realize they don't need to attend school every day to pass a class?
00:40:44
Speaker
I can do a few things. We've moved so much online now. All assignments are online in a lot of cases. And the formative is summative. The students know I only need to do summatives. Do you think COVID with them being online has caused them to believe, I don't need to be there all the time. I just need to do just enough to get by. Therefore, chronic absenteeism has gone up. I think that's definitely
00:41:12
Speaker
possibility. I think that if grownups think, well, my kid can just do this at home on the computer, then, you know, it's not a big deal. The other thing that I've, I've read about has been parents have said, look, if 2020 taught us anything, it's to YOLO. And so I'm going to go on the vacation in the middle of the school year, when rates are less expensive than the middle of the summer.
00:41:41
Speaker
And so I don't really wanna judge that because who am I to judge? Who am I to judge that? And then the other thing is we've had a discussion about social media before, but if you ever scroll, especially short form videos, so you're looking at YouTube shorts or TikTok,
00:42:07
Speaker
there's sometimes a lot of really negative things about education on social media. And I think-
00:42:16
Speaker
The algorithm sometimes pushes that towards grownups. And so if you're seeing a video of, I remember seeing a video a couple months ago of a first grade teacher that got in trouble, it was in another part of the country, but got in trouble for being intoxicated on
00:42:38
Speaker
on the job, I'm sure you saw it too, because it was everywhere. And they were interrogating her and they were, it was in the principal's office. And so when these videos go viral and they're out on social media, it puts a negative connotation on education. And that's not fair. We are our own worst enemy. We do a terrible job of marketing the job.
00:43:06
Speaker
We generalizing, you know, like I few years ago, I got, you know, got, I got into a spat on Twitter and then, you know, just reflected and made some changes. Now I only, I make it a goal to only post positives about the job or the school. We do a terrible job promoting this profession. Teachers all the time are like, five more days till winter break.
00:43:33
Speaker
or I thought about quitting again today, or whatever. And that's because it probably gets likes or validation that way. We do a terrible job promoting the positives of the job. And at the Innovative Schools Conference I was at two weeks ago, we need to prop up the profession and our school as much as possible. And we do a great job at Thompson. Angie's amazing on the social media, and I put videos out.
00:44:00
Speaker
We put out a lot of positives, but we can do better. We just have to promote the profession more and show the positive side of it. Otherwise, we're just feeding into the negativity. Right now, we can't recruit people. Who wants to be a teacher when all you see, if you look in the right spots, is negativity and negativity. We need to just glamorize this profession. 98% of the time, it's the best job in the world.
00:44:29
Speaker
The other 2%, they stink. But really, when you look at, everybody listens, when you look at social media, tonight, tomorrow, whatever, what's the positive to negative ratio on education? Yeah, I, well, we know it's just kind of like the old saying, you know, bad news sells, you know? Yeah. I think there was, I think they phrased it another way. But, you know, good news is not, it doesn't, it's not as popular as bad news.
00:44:59
Speaker
And so I would say that it's probably, you know, the algorithm tends to pick up the stories that are more drama and are more negative. And, and like I said, that's, that's unfair. That's unfair because there's such, there's such positive things being done. And I actually, I actually saw something the other day that said, you know, somebody needs to do a reality series on like,
00:45:26
Speaker
What is actually happening in the classroom? If you can be in some of these schools and even you, Robert, how many jobs are you doing during the school day? You're doing a million jobs. There's the assumption that
00:45:42
Speaker
teachers or principals or whoever are just sitting with their feet up on their desk and just, you know, munching their powdered donuts. And the reality is, is, you know, you're, you're comforting students, you're, you know, you're addressing situations that happen. There's all kinds of things that happen that, you know, that grownups don't see, that grownups don't see.
00:46:06
Speaker
We need to make them see that, though. Again, we are our own worst enemies. You know, like you'll see by the time this errors, probably, I'm guessing you'll see, you know, you'll you'll see Buddy the Elf at Tyrone Thompson running around trying to make kids happy about school. And you have to you have to change the environment. Teachers out there. I mean, back in the old days when I used to teach, if you just move the you move the desks around, it's like the craziest thing ever.
00:46:30
Speaker
We can't keep doing the same things. And the algorithm, I think, knows that people are focused on the negatives. So it just keeps feeding them the negatives. We have a huge lift as educators, and I don't know if I'll be around long enough to do it, to change the narrative.
00:46:49
Speaker
I
Role of Relationships and Perspective in Education
00:46:50
Speaker
think as we always say and how we used to end the podcast, it's all about perspective. And I think if we can just focus in on our own personal little orbit around ourselves, that's all we really can control and do our best to help one another, do our best to be supportive, do your best to not always assume the worst.
00:47:16
Speaker
and sometimes just validating somebody's feelings that I understand or I hear you. I hear the words you are saying and I just wanna let you know that I'm thinking of you. So I don't know how...
00:47:38
Speaker
It's always, it's just relationships. I mean, the older I get, like the more relationships matter. And that's really, really key in this profession. You know, it's hard, it's hard sometimes as admin to give grace to certain people, but we have to. You know, you hit your limit, everybody hits their limit, but you know, everybody's running their own race and you don't know what they got going on. Last question before I let you go. Could you ever go back to the classroom full-time?
00:48:07
Speaker
I absolutely love teaching. I absolutely love teaching. That wasn't the question. I've learned never to say never. I've learned never to say never. That's true. So I think it's foolish if I were to say I would never go back.
00:48:31
Speaker
We worked with somebody, you know, in our previous school and she told me one time, she said, you know, Abby, she's like, you make a huge impact on your 23 littles that are in your classroom. But what you do outside of the classroom has an effect on, you know, 23 times, however many.
00:48:52
Speaker
And so I really would love, I think I have a positive attitude. I think I have a supportive approach. And I think that sometimes seeing somebody who has that perspective, I think is sometimes helpful, not always. So I think I have a lot to offer outside of the classroom.
00:49:18
Speaker
And so I will leave it as that. I will never say never, but I love making a difference with students and admin and teachers all over. That's a
Impact Beyond the Classroom
00:49:36
Speaker
great point of view. I have to go to Chicago in February to present, which is fun. It's awesome. But I have to miss two days of school to do it.
00:49:47
Speaker
And it's just like, I don't miss work. I just don't. But the reason that I can rationalize it in my brain is that I'm going to make a bigger impact.
00:49:58
Speaker
on the profession and on more people. And so I think your point of view there is right on. So thanks for that. I love connecting with teachers. I love connecting with, you know, just sharing ideas. And sometimes it's the little things. That's one thing that I found is sometimes it's the little tips and tricks. It's the little, you know, I share about sticky notes a lot, you know, because you can do a lot with sticky notes. A lot. Whether you're admin, whether you're a coach, whether you're a teacher,
00:50:27
Speaker
you can do so much with just sticky notes. And so I think sometimes sharing even those, the things that are seemingly so insignificant and small, I think when you can share those, they make a big impact and I'm proud of those small things making a big impact.
00:50:47
Speaker
I agree. I agree. Well, I appreciate you coming back. It's good to talk to you again. And of course, we'll have you back again in the future. I certainly hope you'll come back. But one thing I greatly appreciate is that I know that you know that no matter where you stand on things, in the end, it's all about perspective. Thanks, Abby. I appreciate your time. Thanks for having me.