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Season 3, Episode 27 - Christina Hardeman
366 Plays1 year ago
Today on the podcast, behavior strategist and lifelong educator Christina Hardeman joins the fun! Listen as she talks about how to help students and teachers in today’s after-COVID world. Christina also gives her thoughts about teachers who come in her office, what is plaguing the educational world, and whether or not we can help it completely turn around. She also shares positives about the profession and some memories from years past! Enjoy!
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
you
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of It's All About Perspective with your host, Robert Hinchliffe. I am here with someone, God love her. I don't know why she has stayed in contact with me for 24 years, but she has. She was there the first day I was walking into my new school back in 1999 and she's still around today. So, Christina Harderman, how are you today? I am great. How about yourself? I am wonderful. You were just saying that the wind is killing you. Yeah.
00:00:45
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It's just out of nowhere. Oh my gosh. It like messes with my allergies and sneezing all the time. So you're like, you like outside on duty. You don't, you haven't like pulled rank and like knock on outside for duty. Are you? Absolutely not. I am out there. I only have one duty though. I'm out there for fifth grade, but I'm in the lunch room for every grade level K through five. I'm out.
00:01:11
Speaker
Go ahead. I went for fifth grade for a reason. Like, I man football, I man all the things where kids kind of go a little far left. They know I'm watching, so they tame it down a little
Christina's Teaching Journey
00:01:24
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bit. So, back in the day, many years ago, you taught first grade. She's going to be mad at me, but I cannot remember what your partner's name was. I want to say Linda.
00:01:39
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Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay, good. She won't be mad if I reinvent her. But so back in the day, you taught first grade and basically your job was to teach us young kids what to do for duty and, and basically how to behave and hat. So but then you've you've traveled. So tell us like from back in the day, our days at Decker where you taught first grade, how did you what did you do to end up where you're at now?
00:02:01
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Um, so when we left Decker, like I taught Decker, I was there for first and second grade. I was able to loop up with one of my groups, which was amazing. And then when Mrs. Buck left or was leaving, um, Carrie Sintler and I.
00:02:20
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had kind of talked and we moved over, lived on the same side of town. And she was like, my bucket list is to open a school. There's a school opening close to our houses. And I was like, all right, let's try it.
00:02:35
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So she interviewed, I interviewed right after she did. She got a call from our new principal, Dr. Steffens. She's like, oh, Christina Hardiman, she's right eating lunch. Do you want to talk to her? She's like, of course. So that's kind of what
Role of a Behavior Interventionist
00:02:53
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brought me to the school I'm at now. And then I taught first grade, second grade,
00:03:01
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I went to fourth grade for a hot second. That's the best grade. Oh, no. I said, please, what grade can I teach that you have open? I need to get out of fourth grade. She was like, I only have kindergarten. So off to kindergarten I went. I taught kindergarten for seven years. And then my principal said, hey, I would love for you to become the behavior interventionist at our school.
Impact of COVID-19 on Student Behavior
00:03:30
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And I said, uh-huh, oh, kiddo. And why is that? Well, I've always had a lot of the challenging students and we really were able to create that bond together for the most part, try different strategies. So I jumped into that. And my first year was the year we went on lockdown. So the following year it was
00:03:58
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What do I do? Kids are at home. What am I doing for behavior? So I was like the air traffic controller of GoGuardian. So that didn't make it to class. I had 150 kids on my GoGuardian. I would send them to where they needed to go. You know, we had kindergartners that might have been at daycare, couldn't figure out how to get to where they needed to. So
00:04:22
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their families would reach out to me. And that was kind of the beginning of my journey. Were you shocked? Cause I remember like you've always, you've always been good from what I remember. Like the five years I was a Decker, you know, like you talk about being good with the difficult kids and building relationships, but were you shocked when they said, well, do you want to be a behavior strategist? Did you like have questions about that? Like what does that mean?
00:04:50
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That's what I said. What does that mean? And she was kind of like, whatever you want it to mean. We need help with XYZ. And like you talk about the runners, I ran.
00:05:04
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It was I researched different things, figured out what I was supposed to do, how I could get in and help teachers. And then I think I became more of the biggest support system for our kids because we both know when you have a difficult student and they are on your last nerve, you are like, what am I going to do with you? How can I get you out of here or how can I get out of this situation? So,
00:05:31
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That's what I do now, a lot of check-ins and push-ins, but the first year I was kind of like, yes, we are at home. So I can try to figure out where am I going to go with this? And then the year started and I was like, oh my gosh, we're still at home. There's nothing I can really do with this to kind of get us where we need it to be.
00:05:57
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And then we came back and I was like, we need some type of consistency with behavior. So I created a behavior matrix for our school. We have a school-wide motto. We kind of just set sail with whatever I wanted to do because it showed that what we were doing was actually working.
00:06:21
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So what do you find nowadays coming back from COVID that is your biggest challenge behaviorally? I mean, there's, the kids are just, I don't want to say all, I'm generalizing. They're not all out of control, but are you still, are you facing chronic absenteeism? Are you facing just disrespect? I know what we're facing, but are you facing the same thing kind of on the North side of Vegas? All of the above. So chronic absenteeism, yes.
00:06:47
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but it's like we have some things in place this year, which seems to be helping a little bit. I would say disrespect. Another issue that we're really finding is kids are not as engaged with anything because they've been sitting at home, they're on the computer, they're playing video games. How can you entertain me?
00:07:12
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so that I'm going to actually pay attention. And another issue, especially recently, is parents saying that their kids didn't do anything. My kid would never do that.
00:07:26
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where in the beginning, COVID, oh my gosh, rah, rah, rah, teachers are doing amazing things. And now the kids are back and, well, what did you do to make him upset? What did you do that caused my son to throw something around the room? Or what did the other kid do? So there's no accountability for any behaviors with certain kids.
Role Clarification and Collaboration
00:07:53
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We have an issue right now
00:07:55
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The kid, he just uses his hands for everything because those are things that they witnessed while they were home for so long, where they weren't able to come to school to kind of have that safety net, where they were away from what was happening at home. They watched all of it and with all the frustrations and people losing their jobs. And I think at home, the trauma became more consistent
00:08:23
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And so the kids are seeing, oh, well, when I'm angry, I'm just gonna yell or I'm gonna leave the classroom because I don't know how to handle my emotions or I haven't learned the skill. So that's my thing when I work with students. Big question, like up on my bulletin board, what skill do you need me to support you with?
00:08:46
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That's really smart, you know, but are you, um, so we're finding, you know, the, the kids that missed, um, you know, second, third and fourth, I mean, fourth and of course is gone, but those are the kids that missed their, um, their time to socialize during COVID. And they're the ones that really struggle with coming back. Did you find that as well? Yes, especially our fifth grade.
00:09:09
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because they were the students that were in second grade when we went into lockdown. So they had half a school year and then some of them didn't come back
00:09:20
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in that second semester when we were able to come in. So they don't know, like you had said, they don't know how to socialize with one another. So one of the things that I do is a lot of gameplay. So they come in and we work on taking turns and you're not always going to win. How do we cope with those things? So I totally agree that that is the biggest group. So right now it's like our third, fourth, and fifth graders, because our third graders had kindergarten at home.
00:09:50
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And we don't really know if they learned a lot out of that. And then, you know, they didn't socialize with anyone. And if they did, we don't know how appropriate that socialization actually was. What is the difference between you and the counselor? Because you sound a lot like a counselor at Tyrone Thompson. So I assume you have a counselor also at Simmons, but do you like collaborate and you take on certain things that the counselor does?
00:10:16
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The counselor, she does a lot of push-in lessons with the kids. I don't do whole class lessons. I kind of work on the proactive with individual students that we see are having issues. I do the check-ins. She has some students that might have anxiety that she will do check-ins with them, but I typically do the check-ins with our more challenging behaviors. We collaborate really well.
00:10:45
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It may be, hey, we need to circle up these kids in this class because they're having this issue.
00:10:51
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Do you want to do it with them? She has a little gentler touch when it comes to certain things than I do. So she is able to work with some of the kids that need a little more of the gentle softness. So do you do any work with teachers at all? Do you give them strategies to help kids or anything like that? Yes. So we have started last year and a lot more this year. I'm actually working
00:11:21
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one of my student teachers came back and she is a teacher here. But it's we figure out which student she they he or she are having issues with. And then I'll come in and do some observations to kind of pinpoint maybe what the triggers are for certain things. And then we work it's kind of like academic RTI, we have behavior RTI.
00:11:44
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So we're going to work on four weeks of this skill and these are the support systems that I have in place for you. These are strategies that I want you to try.
00:11:54
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And then we, every week we revisit, look at the data that's been collected to pinpoint that specific behavior we're working on. And if that behavior is getting better and there's a new behavior, we work on
Philosophy on Behavioral Expectations
00:12:07
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that. And then I'm collaborating with the teachers at my school at least three times a week, just as a check-in on how things are going. Do you want to tweak something? Is this not working for you?
00:12:20
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So I'm kind of like when we used to work at Decker, we did teen teaching. It's kind of like the teen teaching when it comes to behavior, except a lot of my kids don't have behaviors magically when I come in to do some data collection. But why is that? I mean, you know the reason, but like tell everybody, why do you not have behaviors when the teacher does? I think with some of the teachers,
00:12:49
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since I'm older and I have a little more experience with these are things that I'm going to let go, but I have very high expectations for behavior and they know those expectations, but I'll call them out immediately where sometimes teachers don't want to get into, Oh, I called him out and now he's going to wreck the rest of the lesson. Um,
00:13:14
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I never was that teacher that really cared about that. It was, this is what the expectation is and we're going to follow it. We had fun, but they knew like this was the line. We can't cross it. And I think right now I'm working with a fifth grade teacher.
00:13:30
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Her kids have crossed that line, jumped the line, headed down the street or working on like raining them back in. But she is a little more lax than she should be with the type of they need structure. And I think that was something when we worked at Decker, like we had really good structures in place. And I think kids feed off of structure. So do teachers.
00:13:54
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And sometimes you forget your structures. You're like, oh, but it was going really well. But then the next time they kind of run with it. So you're a brutally honest person. You always have been. Which is a good thing for many people. Some don't like it probably. Yeah, some don't like it. Well, how do you struggle? One thing I struggle with is
00:14:23
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Don't throw anybody under the bus at your school, of course, but when people just don't listen or they just don't change and you're trying to help them, do you just have to count to 10 and walk away? Or I can totally see you like back in our day, you just like clapping your hands, like, why aren't you listening? But like, do you like struggle with people? You're trying to help them, but then like they keep doing the same thing. Yes.
00:14:52
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I've tried to be a little more creative with the conversation. Hey, what things have you been working on to work with so-and-so? Let's check and see like the record keeping or whatever. And if they're like, oh, well, I don't have that right now. Okay, well, when we're back together in two days, like please have that ready because it makes my life easier.
00:15:22
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I do have, in the past I've had some teachers where it didn't matter what I said, they just kind of kept doing what they were doing. And those were the teachers where I was just kind of like, you know, when you have those behavior challenges, your 10% of your kids are going to be the ones that are like in your tier three. I've had some that were just in the tier three and they just weren't ready for the support that I was willing to give them.
00:15:53
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But isn't it like such a struggle? Is it a lack of skill or is it a lack of will in your opinion? Because like to admit that, like if I come to you and I said, hey, I need help with so and so. First of all, I am showing an insecurity for the most part. But if I'm willing to show you an insecurity, you think I would be willing to take your advice after I just told you. But do you find like I do sometimes that
00:16:23
Speaker
It's like, I want your advice, but I'm not gonna listen to it. So like, you're just basically like a sounding board and I'm gonna vent to you, but I don't really wanna change. I'm gonna say sometimes it's both. I've learned, especially this year when people walk through my door, I asked them three things. Do you want me to listen to understand? Do you want me to listen to fix?
00:16:52
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Or do you want me to listen to... More so, well lately it's been more like, do you just want me to listen, to learn, understand, or fix?
Social Media and Student Behavior
00:17:05
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And if they say, I don't want you to fix anything, okay. We just kind of, you can tell me all you need to, and then you walk away. I think some teachers are very overwhelmed with everything that's changed this year.
00:17:21
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with the new reading series and how do we juggle all of these things that it's easier to just complain about the behaviors than take steps to help resolve that issue. So like looking for it, I often wonder, you know, we're getting to the end of our careers. I don't, do you believe, well, I guess this,
00:17:47
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How can we fix the issues overall that we are facing in your opinion, you know, with the disrespect and the lack of accountability, or is it fixable? Because I don't know if we can ever bring it back to the way it was in 99 when we first met.
00:18:07
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I'm going to agree with you. I don't think that we will ever be able to go back into what we used to see when we had students coming in. I think some of it is out of our control because I can give a student as much support and the skill set that they need. But when they go home, if that support is not there, it's never going to work.
00:18:34
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So I think it's kind of like that catch 22. There are parents that just don't know, and they are welcoming of any assistance that we can give. And then others, I think it's more of, I'm embarrassed because I don't know what to do, but I don't want you to know that I don't know what I'm doing.
Finding Joy in Student Success
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you. And I don't, it's just us, but I don't understand why. I don't understand,
00:19:04
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I don't know where we went off the rails. I don't know if it's social media. I don't know if it's access to so much more through the internet. I just don't know why people think it's completely okay to act a fool in school.
00:19:19
Speaker
but yet they act to fool in public or they see their parents act to fool in public. And now you see like all over the news, I mean, people are just doing whatever they want or like down in the Southwest right now, we have like 30 kids on bikes and they just terrorized the neighborhood and they're like riding through their bikes and then they're like riding to traffic and they'll block cars. And guess what? It never changes, even though I guarantee you that the parents have seen people complain about them on Mountain's Edge Facebook.
00:19:50
Speaker
How do we fix that? I don't know. And that's, you're probably frustrated too, but I don't know how to fix just common sense. Don't ride your bike in traffic, you moron. Because you know, as soon as that kid gets hit, it's going to be the person driving the car's fault. Even though they've been told forever, don't do that. Of course, of course. Well, I think
00:20:20
Speaker
I don't know, I think it's a combination. I think social media has really played a positive role in things, but then for the younger children, I think it's such a negative piece because you can talk about anybody, say anything that you want, and people are going to believe you just because you said it.
00:20:41
Speaker
or you're going to like, I know when my daughter was in middle school, they had like a page on Instagram where people were just like taking pictures of people and posting it with these horrible things to say about them. So then you're watching and looking and oh, well, this must be true because it's on our Instagram page or somebody has so many views on TikTok. So they must know exactly what they're talking about.
Career Longevity and Openness to Change
00:21:09
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And I think,
00:21:10
Speaker
Another thing that I came across this morning was online video gaming. So these two students had an issue while they're playing the video game that now has come to school on a Monday, something that happened on Saturday, and now they've gotten all their friends involved. Oh, I don't like this person because she beat me in this video game. It's a video game. Holy cow.
00:21:39
Speaker
So we literally had like two hours worth of drama because this person beat somebody else on a video game.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, and it's ridiculous. Again, I hate to lose. I'm one of the most competitive people as well. But at the same point in time, I think it's just a different time. Or maybe it's just a different structure. But if we got beat, if I lost a basketball game on Saturday and I brought it to school, I would get beat when I got home for messing around at school. It doesn't make sense. I just struggle. I don't understand why. I know you don't either.
00:22:17
Speaker
OK, let's talk about the positives. OK. What are the positives of your job? What are the positives of our job, of our profession, according to you? So I'm going to say the positive of my job. And I'm not like the most emotional person. I had a parent who called me this year in the beginning of the year. And I had worked with I had her son in kindergarten. He's a fifth grader now.
00:22:45
Speaker
And when he was in third and fourth grade, like when he came back to school, I was there helping because he really has a lot of personal things that he's struggling with. She called just to tell me that one day during the summer, he was in his room and he was practicing the strategies that we had been working on for two years. And she just wanted to let me know that instead of like punching the wall like he normally did,
00:23:15
Speaker
He was sitting and doing his breathing and practicing, you know, whatever thing it was that we had been working on. So seeing my kids able to kind of take accountability for their actions, even if they make a poor choice the next day, I have one student, he owns up to it every time.
00:23:37
Speaker
He doesn't always change the behavior, but he is learning to take accountability instead of, I didn't do anything. I would say a positive just for us as educators is we're still doing the hard things. And I know a lot of teachers have resigned and gone to do other jobs, but for those of us that are still in here day in and day out,
00:24:04
Speaker
Like we are really doing hard work. Have we not resigned because we're so close to the end and our degree really doesn't help us in any other profession? You know what? Actually my daughters were asking me that because I have three years left. Yeah. I am probably going to be a teacher for all eternity. I agree. I don't think I would resign. Like if I could go get, I don't think I would leave what we do. I think I still love it enough to stay.
00:24:34
Speaker
I just think that for myself, even though it's changed so much, I have never stayed stagnant. So I wasn't the teacher that stayed in one grade forever. Like I would get bored, so I need to do something different. This job, I don't really get bored because every day is something different. Every day. But I think for myself,
00:24:58
Speaker
just knowing like even if there's one kid who comes up and is like, Ms. Hardiman, I am so glad to see you today. Or says hi with a smile. Like I know I'm doing something for at least one kid. And if I was at home just watching TV, I'm not helping anyone. And my personality more so is a helper by trade.
00:25:22
Speaker
So being in the mix and seeing these kids really struggling and knowing that some of my kids have no cheerleaders at home. I'm your cheerleader. Right. I have found that most people, when they leave the classroom to be a strategist or specialist, they would never go back. Very few do. Your principal comes to you and says, Ms. Hardiman, I need you to teach first grade next year. What would you say? I'm there.
Behavioral Interventions and Support Systems
00:25:51
Speaker
See, you're such a team player, it's like neither fair. Or maybe you wanna go back. But do you think you could leave like all 700 kids for 20? Yeah, if she needed me to. Would I be like, oh, I really like, I would, okay, so if she didn't get rid of my position, I would be like, no, what are you talking about? If she was like, we just don't have the money,
00:26:20
Speaker
to keep your position, but you can go to first or fourth, like totally jumping into first. I loved fourth because they got my sense of humor, but I just love the little ones.
00:26:36
Speaker
Yeah, I remember. You and Linda. I remember Linda's first name, and I can see her clearly. People loved you. You guys were on track five. You were the special people back then. Only once, though. I was always track four. When I was hired, I was given track four. That's true. I actually forgot that. Ross and Bartolo were track five. Yeah. See, the names come back. I haven't thought of them forever.
00:27:05
Speaker
Why did you never go into admin? I like to work with the students and I- What are you saying? I see all of them. No, but listen, listen. I would not like to have the stress of the parents because right now, like I'm dealing with a situation, a parent left me a voicemail. She's very angry. Okay, we'll take care of it.
00:27:32
Speaker
But I don't know if I could sit in front of a parent and listen to them speak so poorly towards me and being able to keep my job. Yeah, I mean, I can understand that. It's a challenge. It's a challenge sometimes. It's hard sometimes to not say everything you want to say.
00:27:58
Speaker
They don't give me nearly enough credit for all the things I haven't said in my career. But yeah, it sucks. I think also working with the teachers in your position. You have teachers, maybe not at your school, but I've been around. And there are teachers that would just drive me crazy if I was admin. Because if I'm giving you a directive
00:28:27
Speaker
and you choose not to do it, I would not be very pleasant to speak to. That's a challenge. It's hard, especially in today's world. There's not teachers lined up at the door to take the place of someone that leaves. So you have to find a way to manipulate, it's not the right word, but to manage people, to try and get them to come to the conclusion that they need to change.
00:28:56
Speaker
You can sit and you can write people up all day. You can be a dictator. But once those nine people leave, there's not nine more sitting there to fill in. So it's a give and a take. So what I hear you saying is you're just not patient with some humans.
00:29:14
Speaker
No, not in my old age, not at all. Are you more patient? You're like me, are you more patient with, like, a kid at school pretty much has to commit a felony before I'm gonna send them home. And I'll be like, I'll be patient. And even after I lose my shit for a moment, then I'll be like, okay, I'll get down on my knee, I'll look at her like, listen, man. But adults is just different.
00:29:44
Speaker
If I retire early, it'll be because of the adults, not the kids. Well, and I think in my respect, I think that I always look at the kids like they don't know better. And some adults, they have been on the earth long enough to know a little better. You would think. I've had some kindergartners, like I've had rough kids. I had a kid try to break my finger. He was five.
00:30:14
Speaker
because he wanted to go to the STAR program with his brother. I'm like, absolutely not. You can break my finger, but you're still stuck in this room. We have walked the streets for 45 minutes because we've had students leave campus and we have to make sure that they stay safe. I was really irritated, but in my mom head, it was what made you so frustrated
00:30:43
Speaker
that you thought the best thing for you to do was to climb the fence and walk home. Is that a survival fight or flight type thing? Yes, yes. Right. So you know what, people struggle because all they see is the kid climbing the fence and running up the road and they don't ever understand what the antecedent was to create it. And then they'll do it again and you realize like,
00:31:12
Speaker
Did you not learn the first time? So you get like, I think again, the adults and then you, I mean, I'm blessed that the staff's great, but you know, I mean, I've been around too. You just wonder sometimes what people are thinking. Yes. Why would you take that from him? If you take it from him, you know, he's going to destroy the room. Anyway. All right. Do you have, I've been thinking about this. My memory is bad.
00:31:42
Speaker
I remember back, our class is teaming up and I remember teaching a lesson where they had to make frosting to make the primary colors. I don't know if you remember that or not. Yes. That was like one of the good ones. But I remember the first time I met you because you were walking all of us new people around and showing us where the bike rack and where the bus did you were and all that stuff. All my boys. Yes, there was a lot of us this year.
00:32:09
Speaker
I don't know if I should ask this question, but what do you remember about those days when we talked together that you could share on the podcast? You know what? It was a lot of fun. We had fun. I'm going to promise with you. It was a lot of fun. And you correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you coming from a small town, not having a lot of exposure to a lot of diversity. Absolutely. I think, and I always like,
00:32:39
Speaker
I think I kind of helped him a little bit. I don't know if I did, but I think we had really good conversations and you were safe talking to me because I never judged what you didn't know. So when you would make some comment, I would be like,
00:32:58
Speaker
just came out of your mouth, Robert. Like, are you kidding me? Like, we can't talk like that. Or... I don't remember anything I said, but hopefully you... I think that with you and I, like, we were really able to
00:33:14
Speaker
have a good friendship and our kids could see like, hey, it's okay for you fourth graders to talk to these second graders and first graders when you see them out and about. Like you're not just the cool kids. We do cool stuff together. And I think watching my little ones work with your older kids and learn from them, like that was the coolest stuff.
00:33:38
Speaker
Yeah, those were fun times. Like you said, I came from a small town and all this stuff, then Vegas was shock culture. I mean, just all of a sudden, there's people everywhere of all different backgrounds and ethnicities. And then there's, well, at the time, maybe you were, you know, there's Christina, like, oh, there's this, okay, well, she's very nice, okay, so.
00:34:03
Speaker
It was just a weird time. And a lot of people back then and still today come from small towns like Don DeBore or whoever. And it's a whole new world down here. So you were great like that because you could be like, hey, this is the way it is. I don't know. I have my memory shot, but I'm sure. I remember once.
00:34:31
Speaker
I subbed for Linda on track break and I put up some, like a bulletin board on your wall and it was so bad. I had to take it down and do it over or you're like, I'll just do it. But you guys have this great big wall. It was impossible to keep everything level, but I could just see the look on your face when I got done. You're like, yeah, that's not gonna work.
00:34:52
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I am still the same way. I was in kindergarten. So like our school are all in pods. I was in like the teeny tiny first grade room with kindergartners my first year of kindergarten, because we had a lot of sped preschool programs. We had special K. So there just wasn't a kindergarten room. Well, my counselor at the time, she was a fifth grade teacher.
00:35:17
Speaker
Oh, good night in the morning. She put up a bulletin board. It was crooked. It went down. And I was twitching every time I'd walk in. And I'm like, would you mind if I fix your bulletin board? Because it is making me crazy every time I come in. She's like, oh, no. Have at it.
00:35:38
Speaker
My problem is the first year I taught. Now I went to Decker and I was the youngest teacher. The only person that was close to my age was the woman that I was teaming with. And her and I did not get along. And then it was like ladies that were in their 40s, like they could have been my mom.
00:35:58
Speaker
One lady on that big bulletin board, she would do chalk lines. She had a level. So that's kind of where my craziness started from, was watching these older teachers make sure that everything was nice and neat and oh yeah, crazy. It goes back to what we were talking about earlier though. Like some teachers or educators are really professionals probably. That doesn't, it's not important to them.
00:36:25
Speaker
It's just not. It's like it's like the teacher that cannot have kids walking the line to save their life. It's not important to him. What? Why is it matter they got to where they're going in their safe? Yeah, it's just a personality thing. You know you're just very. I'm very type A. It's OK. I got it. That's OK. My kids make fun of me all the time, but some of them are type A too. Yeah, but you know what? You're organized and you know where everything is and everything looks good. Yeah, yeah.
00:36:55
Speaker
What, okay, so last question, I'll let you go. So maybe how fast time goes by. You were kind enough, I emailed you a survey because my next book's called More Than Just Teaching. How, what we do is more than just teaching, which you totally get. How come so many people can't understand that relationships matter more than what you're teaching them academically? Like if a kid doesn't have a relationship with you, they don't, nobody likes to learn from someone they don't like.
00:37:25
Speaker
So I don't know if you want to talk about that a little bit or not. I appreciate you filling out that survey and sending me the picture of your person who people can read about this summer. But why do people struggle with the concept that relationships are so important when it comes to teaching and learning? That's like a big question. You know, I got to throw some hard ones at you. I think, I don't know. There's just some people that when they come to work,
00:37:55
Speaker
It's, I'm doing my job. My job is to teach the students what's in my standards and that's what I get paid to
Educational Policies and Classroom Needs
00:38:05
Speaker
do. I don't get paid to know what they like and don't like. I'm not here to have a little powwow with the kids because they come to do just the job that they think is a teacher.
00:38:22
Speaker
where you and I both know and many other educators know that you can't do that job unless you have those relationships with your kids. And they don't all have to be deep relationships. You just need to take an interest in them every now and again so they know that they're safe in a room with someone who cares about them. Yeah, you know, it's just fascinating to me. Why are we, I mean, I guess there's gonna be another question here, sorry.
00:38:53
Speaker
Why aren't we training people in undergrad about the important things that matter when you're teaching, such as relationships, engagement strategies? I mean, they do some de-escalation, but my opinion is that if you engage the kids and you differentiate, you'll eliminate a whole bunch of problems.
00:39:15
Speaker
I guess one of my overarching thoughts is do the people in charge want to fix the problems? Do they even know that that problem exists? Good point. Because I think that there are so many people so far removed from inside of the school building.
00:39:37
Speaker
in a classroom, seeing what's actually happening, not, Hey, we have this big wig coming to school today. Everybody, you know, have these amazing lessons ready. So when they come in, they think that we're great. I think that they just really have no idea what truly is going on. You can hear a story.
00:39:59
Speaker
but until you are witnessing it and think about it, like I just interviewed a lady from, she works at Nevada State University. How many of the people in that education department come into classrooms besides to come and observe someone doing student teaching? How is it what they're teaching
00:40:23
Speaker
How do they know that it's actually going to be beneficial in the classroom? Because I know when I was in school, a lot of the stuff I learned had nothing to do with actually being in the classroom and with everything changing so much with behavior, academics. I think that they haven't come to be with the times now. See, now you got me going. And I would say, I said one more question, three questions.
00:40:52
Speaker
If STL is so important, why are we, I'm gonna try to say this without getting in trouble, why are we pushing a reading program or a math program with, well now it's with integrity and not fidelity, but with integrity, we're having kids basically sit forever and they can't do that.
00:41:17
Speaker
So why, maybe it's sold a story, maybe it's, you know, there's more behind the scenes, but I guess that's what frustrates people like you and I. Like we know what the issues are, but we're not doing anything to really combat that. Like my wife is huge into food and health, but yet you walk in and they're handing out Doritos to the kids at lunch. So that just frustrates me. Like why are we not fixing the problems? Because it's easy or not to.
00:41:46
Speaker
It's easier to take a blind eye to whatever the situation is than to dig deep and figure out what they actually need to do. It's easier to buy programs, throw them at the teachers, say, hey, this program's going to work because we had this side deal for you to be able to utilize it. And now if you flounder, like we're the reason that the kids aren't flourishing.
00:42:16
Speaker
because we didn't teach this curriculum with integrity or we didn't do what they told us to. Where that SEL piece is huge. We have so many kids just within the past year and a half. A lot of our students have lost family members. They've been with the family member when they passed. How traumatic is that? Like I was in the house when my dad passed away.
00:42:46
Speaker
Like that was, and I'm an adult, how horrifying. But to witness your parent pass away and then you expect them to come to school and be able to focus on the sit and get because you have this massive curriculum that you have to teach
00:43:03
Speaker
and you're trying to keep up with the pacing guide and, oh, people are checking to make sure, like, what lesson are you on? What unit are you on? Are you on the right module? If you're not on that module, what's going on with
Balancing Negatives with Positives
00:43:15
Speaker
you? Well, I have kids who are coming in with a lot of trauma and we have to work on that trauma before they're going to be able to learn anything. Yeah, and one, it's just, probably could do a whole hour on this. It's just,
00:43:30
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with resources. It's great. You know, like being brand new when I moved to Decker, like, okay, let's just say I didn't have you and everybody else was wanting to help and I had this book. Okay, it's a resource. I can figure it out. But these kids today have more than that. They can't sit. They're hardwired to have to move. And if a teacher doesn't understand to get them up and moving or turn and talk or something,
00:43:55
Speaker
we're gonna struggle, but then you're right, like the classroom next to you might have a whole bunch more trauma, but by goodness, you need to be on the same page that day. It just drives me bonkers. And here we are, we got like, you got three years and I got less than five, probably. Do you ever feel like, and this is not the right way to say this, but like,
00:44:22
Speaker
Not that we wasted our careers, but like that we could have done more or do you ever feel like what's the point now? Like why are we keeping going when everything's flying in our face and we're trying to fix things, but yet people keep getting in our way? Sometimes, but it's very rare. Cause I have learned within the past like year and a half to really look day to day, like what positive am I taking out of today?
00:44:52
Speaker
What positive, like even with my daughters, because I have three girls, they all went through our school district, different schools, looking at them like, man, they are a product of where I am. And, you know, not to toot my horn, but my daughter is doing amazing. She graduated with two degrees, like, holy cow. You know, my other daughter, she is flourishing in school. My youngest is at LVA.
00:45:21
Speaker
She is thriving in their orchestra program. Like we have so many good things and we always are so focused on what's the horrible things going on in the school district instead of taking that one positive. So I've really been working on, let's just pull that one positive out. Hey, this kid didn't climb the fence today.
00:45:45
Speaker
That was a positive. That was a win. Um, I do struggle though, like watching other teachers, like since I'm not in the classroom and I don't have the same struggle that they do. And it's very disheartening. And I, you know, kind of wonder like, Ooh, do I really, do I want to go back into the classroom and live in that realm? Or do I enjoy kind of being on the outside looking in?
00:46:12
Speaker
but giving support where I see that it's needed, I'm not really sure. Cause I'm trying to decide, do I want to double dip when I can retire or do I want to try to venture into something else? I really just am very unsure. I love what I do. I would love to be in the classroom maybe, but right now just kind of looking how
00:46:37
Speaker
The teachers are, they look very defeated. Some are jazzed, like, I am taking this and I'm gonna make it my own, the runners of the building. But it's like a day-to-day thing. What about yourself?
00:46:53
Speaker
Yeah, you just reminded me because I post on Twitter positives. I try to do the 100 positives. The thing that you said was you're so right. We just get so focused on the negatives. My thing is I get pissed about the negatives because I get in the way of all the positives.
Career Aspirations and Leadership
00:47:10
Speaker
I just want to go. I just want to do the positives, but I got to deal with this crap.
00:47:15
Speaker
So those are what frustrates me. There's plenty of positives for sure, but I feel like we could have so much more if we could just get rid of some of these things. And that just gets me frustrated. No, I understand. Okay, question for you. Go. All right, Mr. Principal.
00:47:35
Speaker
Hopefully I answered as well. No, it's just because I knew you. I knew all the boys. That's what we called you. You guys were the best. Yeah, we were. You're a principal. Dabur is a superintendent who was a principal. Sam, principal. He's still a principal, yeah. So when you started in education, was that your ultimate goal was to be a principal?
00:48:04
Speaker
Yes, the only thing the only thing I ever want to do is be a principal. I didn't want to be. I mean, teaching was great. You know, you have to go through teaching to get there. But for some reason, I just always felt like I was meant to be a principal. I was always meant to be a leader in some way. I think that probably I've had a debate with people about this and I don't know where you stand, but.
00:48:25
Speaker
Some people wanna say that leadership is a trained behavior. I don't really believe that. I think some people are just born leaders in some way. And I was blessed to just have this characteristic where I just wanted to like, let's just go, let's just lead. And then through sports and being good at sports, I think definitely helps because if you suck at sports, nobody's gonna look at you as the leader probably. But it's being a small town and being able to lead.
00:48:54
Speaker
sports, just you hone your leadership skills. And I think once you become a leader, I don't think you want to be a follower. Overall, there's times though, when you need to follow as the leader. Does that make sense? Yes. So one of the things I think principals do wrong is they think they need to be in charge of every committee and everything. No, no, no, no, no.
00:49:18
Speaker
Like, for example, if you're at my school and we're going to have a behavior committee, Christina, run, go. Let me know if you need me because I'm not the best person for that. So getting back to your original question, though, this is what I always wanted to do, except for a moment in like middle school where I wanted to play, be in the NBA, but I'm too short. And then I thought about being a surgeon for a while, but I wasn't going to go to school that long.
00:49:42
Speaker
And I briefly thought about being a dentist, but that shaded pretty fast. So this is what I just was always meant to do for some reason. That's just how I feel. Okay. Yeah, it was a great question. And I know the answer to that one. I gave you the easy question. Yeah. I don't know, you know, about Don, I don't know if he, he was always kind of the same as me, small town sports leader.
00:50:05
Speaker
Sam grew up in Philadelphia though, so that was a little different. And then Hungerford, of course, was Youngstown. But I think also in our profession, elementary school, males are just a commodity to be leaders in some way.
00:50:24
Speaker
Um, there's so few of us now, but you look at, I don't know how many males you have in your school, but they probably, the good ones anyways, our leaders in some way with kids. And I think the system just pushes them up to be that way. But this is what I always wanted to do. Yeah. Never my passion ever. Never ever. You just didn't want to be a teacher. I really wanted to be like a hairstylist when I was younger.
00:50:53
Speaker
I love to do all that. And then I went to college and my friend, she was like, oh, I'm gonna do this major. So I was like, oh, well, let me just kind of tag along like in the summer to see what it's all about. And here I am. Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes you're just kind of called to do things. You probably had things in your life that just work out.
00:51:18
Speaker
Things just happen and then you just roll with it and keep going and the next thing comes, the next thing comes. Yeah. Cool. Well, I know that I remember 24 years ago, the first time I saw you, had I known that 24 years later, all the things that you were going to talk with me about and just stay in contact, I probably would have been like, wow, that's going to be an amazing relationship.
00:51:45
Speaker
But I appreciate you, and anybody that has ever known you appreciates what you do for kids. And if they don't, they're blind. So I appreciate it, and I know your school does, and I thank you for your time. And I know that you know that in the end, no matter where you stand on issues... It's all about perspective. That's right. Thank you much, and I'll talk to you soon. Alrighty.