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Season 3, Episode 19 - Sarah Dlouhy
110 Plays2 years ago
A blast from the past! Mrs. Sarah Dlouhy spends an hour with Robert this week discussing education and all that comes with being a teacher. She reminisces on her time being in the classroom and talks about how leaving the profession helped her personally grow and heal. Sharing her insights about the profession from her new position within the “Get Your Teach On” organization and comparing it to being in a school, Sarah tells her story of being a part of that world while balancing it with being a mom and wife, and how she hopes to make an impact on today’s kids and educators nationwide.
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Transcript
Career Transition & Identity
00:00:05
Speaker
Good afternoon, Sarah DeLouis, how are you? I'm so good, how are you? It's been a while. It's been a really long while. I blame you. Me! Well, you decided you had a better opportunity than teaching STEM at Tyrone Thompson, so you left us.
00:00:26
Speaker
Robert Hinchless, the funniest thing you've ever said. Well, I've never been mean to you, but I mean, you, you have a better, I don't know, you had a, let's see, how can we say this? You had an opportunity that was better for you and your talents and skills. Oh, hold on. See, you're on the phone already. Here we go.
00:00:54
Speaker
Hold on, let me put my phone on. If I put my phone on, do not disturb. Does that do it to my computer too? I don't know. Are they tied in? Are you do not disturbing right now? Okay. Well, hey, we're, we're learning right now as we go. We'll see. Um, no, I had a different opportunity and it was definitely the hardest decision I've ever had to make.
00:01:21
Speaker
You lie into the audience. It wasn't that hard. And you were there with me. You were there. But like, teaching STEM truly was like a highlight of my life. And Tyrone Thompson was a highlight of my life. And I feel like I got to experience that. And I'm like, okay, well, I have this new opportunity.
00:01:46
Speaker
do I say no to it or do I try and experience this too? So I decided to experience this too. But leaving the classroom was legitimately the hardest thing I've ever done.
00:01:58
Speaker
Well, all
Challenges of Teaching
00:01:59
Speaker
right. So let's back it up. So for those listening, you loyal listeners, Sarah DeLouis, God bless her. She worked with me for many years. She was actually the, she's a founding mama of Tyrone Thompson Elementary School. And it was actually the first guest ever on it's all about perspective. So now she's back.
00:02:18
Speaker
Sarah, you were, yeah, you were the first guest ever. Yeah, it's amazing how time flies. So Sarah used to teach them at Tyrone Thompson, and then she went got herself tied in with Hope and Way to get your teach on and made the allegedly very tough decision to leave the classroom and go follow her passion, which is basically designing amazing things.
00:02:44
Speaker
Is that a fair assessment of our breakup and how we no longer work together? I don't think that's a very fair assessment. You made a good decision for you and your family. I made a really good decision for me and my family. And in the end, I'm so happy I did it. Absolutely. But I miss teaching.
00:03:14
Speaker
every single day. You know, the district short on subs, so you can go ahead. I'm a little salty since they didn't, when I put in for my year leave, they didn't grant me that. Well, they can give you a year leave when they know you're going to get it to a different job. I mean,
00:03:35
Speaker
So I don't know. But I think subbing is different than having your own classroom, having your own dynamic, having your own students. I don't think I'm eager to be in a sub role. I don't think you would enjoy that. There's a limited amount of relationships in the sub role. So I don't know that you would appreciate that. I'm sure the kids would love it for a day if someone came in and did all kinds of amazing stuff, assuming that they were
00:04:03
Speaker
be well, well behaved enough to do it. But
Innovative Teaching vs. Structured Programs
00:04:06
Speaker
yeah, anyway, so do you miss the classroom on a scale of one to 10? How much do you miss the classroom? How much? What parts of the classroom do you miss? Yeah, that's because that's the part. I miss the classroom 10 out of 10. Like, so, so, so much. I don't miss all of the other stuff.
00:04:28
Speaker
Elaborate. You're in a safe zone. I'm off clock. You can say what you want. Do you cuss on this podcast? I'm not familiar. You are more than welcome to if you want to. I don't know how to conversation with you without. I don't miss all of them.
00:04:53
Speaker
and the stuff that you try to protect us all from. Like I don't miss any of that. I miss coming to school and being with students and teaching what I feel needs to be taught every single day. I don't miss the videos and the paperwork. You never did the videos. I don't miss any of that. I don't. Yeah.
00:05:21
Speaker
You're the poster child for the statement I made once, which is basically, what do teachers want to do the most? They just want to teach. Just want to teach. Yeah, just leave them alone and let them teach. I think you would really, if you were back in the day when you tuck into your first grade, I would bet my left arm that if you had to do HMH, which is the new reading program, that you would have quit not long after you got it.
00:05:50
Speaker
It's just not innovative. It's not you. Have you heard much about it? Do you know anything about it? Well, now I'm thinking, no, what does HMH stand for? I can't tell you. Hooten Mifflin. I hope Hooten Mifflin. I don't know. It's into reading.
00:06:14
Speaker
Um, there's probably a lot of admin out there. Like, how do you not know it? I don't know it. Cause I don't like it. Right. Yeah. You're not really all that. Yeah. People that listen, they know I'm not a program person. No, I think that's what Declan has as his into reading HMH. Yeah. Like vocabulary, like spelling words. Yes. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. It looks okay. I mean, so.
00:06:42
Speaker
We're kind of all over. Welcome to a conversation with Robert and Sarah. But usually, magic comes out of these. They really do. Yeah, so the new reading program is just brutal. I think it slows. If you were in a classroom, one of my arguments was it's going to slow the high kids down.
00:07:04
Speaker
It slows the high teachers down like you know what you're doing. Do you remember, I remember one lesson you taught where you were doing some kind of phonics thing and the worksheet was so boring and then you had the kids do something where they ran to the front of the room and played a video of that. So you would have to somehow find a way to do all of that within this and it's so hard. It's so scripted and that's just not our kind of people.
00:07:33
Speaker
No. So you don't miss that, I'm going to assume. I don't miss that at all. No. I don't miss having to do things I don't want to do. No. Well, it's shocker. I mean, you know, who signs up for that? Okay, so you miss the classroom. I guarantee you miss building relationships with kids and you miss the fun. Yeah.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. A little bit of sadness there. Yeah.
Shifts in Education Focus
00:08:07
Speaker
Well, you know, you could come back to Thompson and I can shield you from all the crap. I know. I know. I think when I say that leaving teaching was the hardest thing. Like I truly grieved what it was to not be a teacher anymore because teaching is like so much more than just a job. Like it is your full identity. And so deciding to leave and not,
00:08:33
Speaker
being a teacher, even though in my heart of hearts I feel like I'm a teacher, just not having that title anymore, not having the day-to-day job of it anymore, I was sobbing in my car after school. It broke me.
00:08:53
Speaker
And there's still so much sadness. There's been so many times I've looked at Gavin just like cried because I miss it so much. I mean, I think that's a sweet sentiment for you to have because you did pour your heart and soul into
00:09:10
Speaker
being a teacher. And what you did, you gave your all in those areas. You know, so I mean, that's one of the reasons that you, you know, you gave your all to building Tyrone Thompson, you just you designed the vast majority of the graphics and everything that we did, you know, and you want a part of education for it, which you rightfully deserved. But it's got to be hard when you pour your heart and soul into something for I think, like, what, eight years.
00:09:40
Speaker
and then you just drop it. I kind of have that feeling a little bit, you know, leaving, leaving Smith, our school, because I poured so much into it for eight years, and you leave it, but both of us managed to go down the path that was better, I would say. Yeah, I mean, in the end, like it led to more growth. And so that that makes it better. Yeah.
00:10:05
Speaker
You can say that. All right. So you left, you left the stem. What is your technical position these days? You got to have some kind of big, long fancy name that comes along with what you do. Graphic designer. If we want to get fancy, we put lead before that. Lead graphic designer.
00:10:21
Speaker
And you're, okay, so explain what you do, please. You are the lead graphic designer for. For Get Your Teach On, which is a teacher conference company out there serving teachers, putting on amazing professional development for teachers everywhere. I just, pretty much everything that you see that is branded Get Your Teach On was made by yours truly. Don't be humble, you should be proud.
00:10:49
Speaker
From the t-shirts to the Instagram graphics to all of the decor at our conferences. It is a labor of love. But you love it.
Personal Life Impact & Systemic Issues
00:11:02
Speaker
I do love it. It is very challenging. It is more challenging than I think I was anticipating it to be. Is it because you feel like you have to come up with cool, neat, new stuff and stay relevant or what?
00:11:21
Speaker
It was, I mean, to come, no, not necessarily that. I definitely struggle with imposter syndrome. I'm like in my heart. I'm a teacher. I am an educator. I went to school to be a teacher.
00:11:36
Speaker
And everything that I do know with graphic design was self-taught and Googled and YouTubed and just through trial and error. Um, so there was a big learning curve. There were a lot of days where I cried at my computer cause I didn't know how to make something work or make it do the magic I needed it to do. Um, but also the level, like I miss, and this is gonna sound bad, but I'm being honest.
00:12:05
Speaker
I miss going to school and just like having a free fun Friday, like we're going to chill today. There's not going to be a ton going on today. Like we're just going to do this thing. And it's just, it doesn't take so much out of me. Whereas I feel like my day to day currently is like do K four all the time. Like I'm always creating, I'm always,
00:12:32
Speaker
starting something from scratch and you know. It's more it's more of a business now like you have to perform not to say that you don't when you're a teacher but if you don't perform
00:12:46
Speaker
It hurts, it hurts the business and it hurts the brand and all that stuff. And school, I mean, let's just be honest, some some teachers owe the district money because they don't perform ever. And, you know, you don't have that option. Because the next thing you know, you have to sub or have to go back to the classroom. But you know, like, you're just I think you've just seen two sides. I mean, you've seen two sides of education. Definitely. So
00:13:15
Speaker
I don't know. I was at the Innovative Schools Conference this weekend in San Antonio. Of course, that makes me reminisce and think about all the cool stuff that we've done in the past. We've had help, but you and I created a lot of magic along the way just by talking.
00:13:36
Speaker
But when you look at Get Your Teach On, which tries to mostly focus, if I'm right, on engagement strategies and engaging kids in schools and getting teachers to be better at getting kids involved in schools, when you look at that and you look at the way education is going, do you see much change? Like I feel like
00:14:00
Speaker
I feel like sadly we're getting away from engagement and we're getting more towards compliance and following and not having basic skills. So at your conference, I don't know if you all are changing this or not, but I was listening to the innovative people and it is completely 180 of where I think the district wants us to go. Do you find like get your teach-ons 180 kind of where most districts are trying to go? Does that make sense what I'm saying?
00:14:31
Speaker
Well, I guess I would have to know like what the innovative conference was trying to just think like a bunch of people talking about places that are like where we want Thompson to end up.
00:14:42
Speaker
So like these are the people like Hamish Brewer, you know, who have schools that are just amazing. Other people who just aren't cookie cutter, aren't robotic. Do you feel like Get Your Teach On has had to go back to basic teaching skills type stuff? Or can they keep running with engagement strategies and trying to make schools amazing?
00:15:06
Speaker
So the really unique experience that Hope and Wade and the rest of the team has is they have a partnership with the Department of Indiana or the Department of Education in Indiana. So they have schools in Indiana that they're going and working with on a regular basis throughout the year. And so they've really been able to see like what a general school's deficits are.
00:15:36
Speaker
And I think we're discovering that it's not necessarily a lack of engagement strategies. It's a lack of teaching strategies, like good teaching strategies that people are missing. Examples. Instructional strategies. Example. Small group instruction, looking at data. The ability to differentiate.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yes, like what it means to teach a group whole group, I think, I think they're really having to go back to the basics, because I think a lot of people are really missing the basics. And I think you have to have that foundation before you can get into the engagement and all that. I mean, I do think that Get Your Teach On has a very special way of kind of bringing those two things hand in hand. But
00:16:36
Speaker
I, whereas like, I feel like when I went to get your teach on, however many years ago, I was so inspired by the engagement strategies because I had good, good teaching foundation. And so I think they've kind of found like people are lacking that foundation. Are they, are they finding that it's not just the new teachers, that it's the experienced teachers also.
00:17:05
Speaker
Okay. So isn't that frightening? So I'm finding, try to think of a way to say this. We are finding, I think that there's a lack across the country. I'll paint a broad brush.
00:17:27
Speaker
of just common sense, if that's an easy way to say it, of things that I think people should come with. When I was a first year teacher, I stunk. I mean, I will apologize to any person that comes up and says I was in your fourth grade class your first year, but you learned and you grew and you figured it out. And I don't feel like, I feel like sometimes people don't have to grow and figure it out because
00:17:53
Speaker
Unfortunately, they know that there's no one else there to replace them. And so, you know, what's the sense of urgency if I don't grow and I don't change? You're smiling. For those that can't see, she's like trying to think of how to say this. What's the point in education? We are too comfortable with mediocrity. I don't.
00:18:23
Speaker
I don't know if I agree. Good. Don't tell me why. I'm, I'm, I think, I think at one point I probably would have agreed with you. Okay. But, and I, it kind of made me think back because I was just thinking actually about how I was very much of the mindset, like, I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to do it. And
00:18:48
Speaker
What are they going to do? Fire me. But it was
Balancing Emotions & Professional Demands
00:18:51
Speaker
more so like, I'm going this extra mile and I am putting forth extra effort to do a thing rather than not. And having that outlook, what are they going to do? Fire me. I think. I think it's a lack of support. I think we're like, I think teachers are probably just completely overwhelmed.
00:19:17
Speaker
I will agree with you. They truly do not know where to even start. And they cannot wrap their head around any of it. And I think for the most part, I would like to believe that everyone is just doing the best that they can. But I, I feel like in the age that we're in with Instagram teachers and
00:19:43
Speaker
TikTok, like I think it's just too much. You're probably right that there is too much. Back when I started, we didn't have any of that stuff. We were basically given a four year degree with very little practice. Then we student taught where we learned a lot. And then I watched into Las Vegas and there was a basil and a math book on the tables or on the desks in my room and figure it out.
00:20:12
Speaker
Now, there's all these things and I would imagine you might be right in the fact that there's too much. I think it's information overload in a lot of ways. And I think the comparison is so toxic and detrimental, especially when you're like, okay, I know that I'm giving my all and my all looks like shit compared to her all.
00:20:42
Speaker
Like she's giving her, and I'm like, so why am I even going to try? Like there's the amount, like I really think, and I'm so glad that I started teaching before the Instagram era because I don't know how I would have handled it. Like I think, I don't know that I would have lasted. You're not wrong. Do you remember when you won?
00:21:12
Speaker
um heart of education and we had your thing and i said or it was the early meeting afterwards i'm not sure i said sarah won because she does the best and she is the best sarah she can be something like that
00:21:30
Speaker
You maximize your talents and your abilities to be the best you could be. And people don't need to be like Sarah, they need to maximize what they can do. It was something very similar to that. But what I hear you saying is that people can't just maximize themselves, they want to be more like Sarah.
00:21:56
Speaker
Does that make sense what I'm saying? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But that's a personal podcast and I have to, yeah, you have to talk here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like, but that's a year, but you also, I think you would be on the flip side though, because you would see something amazing and you would think I'm going to be more amazing. Oh yeah.
00:22:20
Speaker
So people get caught in the middle because you're basically saying that unfortunately people do that, but you would do that. Oh yeah. And that's why teaching, that's why leaving teaching taught me how toxic it was for me. When I was able to take a step back from it and not have my entire identity and my self-worth wrapped up in teaching, then you take a step back and you're like,
00:22:47
Speaker
Oh, I have a lot of holes I need to fill that don't have the validation of being a teacher to fill them. Yes. But another thing that you struggled with, and I've talked about this on the podcast a lot, is you could not understand why they couldn't all be like you, at least in the effort area.
00:23:13
Speaker
Oh yeah, and this, yeah, like I would get so frustrated. And I would have to say they can't all be like you. They can't all be like you. And I was like, they can. And I did hold this belief that they could all care. They didn't necessarily have to show up in the same way that I did, but I wanted them to care in the same way that I did. And now that you're out of it, have you learned that they all don't?
00:23:43
Speaker
Yes and I realize it's out of self-preservation. Expand upon that. I have realized like I just went and got a massage a couple weeks ago and I just had an epiphany. I had an aha moment as she is digging through the knots in my back. Like I carry all my stress. Well you sit at a computer a lot.
00:24:07
Speaker
Oh yeah, but it's been my whole life. Like anybody who comes up, they're like, oh my gosh. I definitely hold all of my stress up here. And I just, I had like a moment where my masseuse, she must have had a little inkling of how much stress I hold in my life.
00:24:35
Speaker
just by the way my body holds it. She's gotta be like, this girl is stressed out all the time. Because if I'm not stressed out, it's not gonna show up in my body like that. And I've just kind of been more aware of the things that bother me and trying to embrace the art of not caring. Here's the thing.
00:25:02
Speaker
Me, my level of care and concern for things is a part of my personality. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I'm still trying to figure out if it's even possible. Can I just not care so much about every little thing? No. Is that possible? No? No. I feel like I need it to be possible.
00:25:31
Speaker
Now, you're, I mean, I'm sorry, I'm gonna, I think part of it is that you're hitting your mid 30s and you're starting to realize that just some shit doesn't matter.
00:25:41
Speaker
But as we get older, I think we just hone in on what matters more. For sure. And you're starting to figure out what matters more to you. I think back in the day, a lot of things mattered. You used to get really frustrated at the kindergarten teachers. Why don't they care more? Why is she still here? Why does she still get to be here?
00:26:10
Speaker
And then you start crying because now you gotta pass your first graders on to second grade teachers and you don't know where to put them. You start to just hold. So it's more than just teaching. It's your life when you care. Yeah, yeah. And so now that you're out of it, I think you just care differently.
00:26:40
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Well, I can give like, okay. So, all right. Your son's in fourth grade. Yeah. Okay. One of the hardest things I have found as a parent and a principal slash educator is sitting back and knowing when to get involved and when not to.
00:27:06
Speaker
It is
Reforming Education Narrative
00:27:07
Speaker
terrible to sit and watch teachers do things that you know are not good for kids or that are not research-based or that provide absolutely no impact at all. How do you feel about that?
00:27:25
Speaker
From the parent perspective, because you have the clout. You are the teacher of the game. You have a heart of education. You are a successful educator. How do you feel now with your two kids, not just your son? Oh, yeah, no, both of them. You're sitting back. When you think about that, does the phrase, they can't all be like you, pop in your head.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah. And how does it feel? It's frustrating. I've lost a lot of sleep. It's frustrating. It sucks. Like it completely sucks. And I feel like a control freak. And I feel like
00:28:25
Speaker
I don't know. Like I just. Just say how you feel. Nobody's gonna, nobody's gonna like, I mean, what's going to happen? It's frustrating. It's frustrating when I don't know. I don't know what's happening to your son, but like I get frustrated when one of the girls brings home a worksheet with like 35 problems on it. And then they got to Google the answers because they don't know how to do it. Yeah, that's a big. Yeah.
00:28:48
Speaker
No, there's a lot of things that I've seen that just feel very backwards and outdated. And it's not just his energy that's going into it. It's my energy because I'm trying to be supportive of this thing that I very much don't agree with. And he's getting frustrated. It's
00:29:15
Speaker
It's hard being a parent and being an educator. You're in it right now, I think, because you text me every now and then. And then you're in it because now you realize this is why John Hattie says homework has very little ROI.
00:29:35
Speaker
especially in elementary school because what ends up happening is the kid can't be a kid and then they start to frustrate mom or dad and then it's a big fight and then it goes nowhere. I wish there was more data on the emotional effects of homework.
00:29:56
Speaker
Because that has been something that I mean, I've been with you all these years, like my kids have always been at your school, and like we never necessarily enforced homework. And if we did, it had to be very intentional. And like, what are you doing with this homework? And I think that made me feel better about it. But it
00:30:21
Speaker
You're not wrong. That's a good thing. If I had time or the knowledge, the emotional toll that homework takes on kids and families would be a fascinating research project. I would love to see how the relationship between child and parent is before the journey of 40 minutes of homework every day versus at the end, because I think
00:30:49
Speaker
there would have been a lot of pretty crappy blowups. And that's the other thing about homework. I am a teacher. I taught fourth grade math standards and I am about to lose my mind sitting and doing homework with him.
00:31:18
Speaker
like about to lose my mind because I'm like, why are we doing this? Why are we spending so much time on this thing? And it's just so long. And it's like time out of my work day so that he can feel better and he can relax. And it's just, it's not pleasant at all. No part of homework is pleasant.
00:31:42
Speaker
I agree with you because then what happened is I had a long day. I'm tired. They want me to help. And I started out with the most positive attitude. Yeah. Okay. We got this. I mean, the twins are in eighth grade now. I don't know how to do eighth grade. And don't get me started on why eighth graders are in algebra. I'll never agree with that. Sorry, educators. I just won't.
00:32:03
Speaker
But I, so then I'm just like, I don't have I get frustrated and then they feel like I'm mad at them. I'm not mad at you. I'm mad at the situation. And then there's been times when I probably haven't handled it well. And it's just like the emotional toll homework takes on families. It's got to be it's got to have a negative ROI. It just has to
00:32:24
Speaker
That yeah, that's the part like forget the educational part. Tell me like the emotional ROI because it's not it's. Yeah, no, I I don't disagree with you at all. What's the just off the top of your head? What's the coolest thing that you and I ever collaborated on or or like when you look back, you're like, damn, that was pretty sweet.
00:32:55
Speaker
I think anything having to do with houses, like all those days are my very favorite days.
00:33:06
Speaker
Yeah, like the last thing that you and I collaborate, really you, you were always the magic maker. I just pretty much had the idea. Now poor Angie Brown gets it. But the last thing that you did was how the houses selected the families. And I remember when we were done, we're like, we did one more thing. It was really cool. Yeah, those are fun.
00:33:36
Speaker
I don't even know what to ask anymore, to ask me something. Where do you see going along the lines of,
00:33:45
Speaker
homework and stuff like how do you I think we've talked about this too. How do we change education? Like, how do we get this stuff out there? Like, I'm trying. I'm just me. You know, I got I got lucky, you know, with with Brad asked me to write a book, Dr. Johnson, but it's just such a minute impact. You're doing get your teach on. But how do we how do we change the narrative?
00:34:14
Speaker
That's a really good question. And I don't know. I feel like I'm, and I've talked to you about this, but I am just at a place where, especially at my kid's school, where like relationships are not the priority, where SEL is not the priority. Um,
00:34:36
Speaker
And you have, I mean, and your son needs that. He needs that. He needs it. Yeah. When I say that he cried like every day before school and then connected with a teacher, a teacher like outside of who he sees, like he connected with this teacher. And ever since he made a connection with her, ever since she started hugging him every day,
00:35:02
Speaker
he's happy to go to school. And that was just the perfect example of how important relationships are, not just with teacher and student, but other people in the school and how you don't know who it's gonna be that connects with your kid, but somebody will. And I'm just so passionate about what standards can we completely remove
00:35:31
Speaker
so that we can make room for this stuff, for this important stuff. Like I've got chat GPT that can alphabetize anything for me. Like why are they learning to alphabetize things and not how to communicate with each other? And
00:35:54
Speaker
build a relationship with other people in the school that could have a lasting impact on them. You know what I mean? Yes. 100%. So much, I think we have to, so many of our systems are antiquated. They're old. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the color. What's it going to be like? Okay, this isn't working anymore.
00:36:13
Speaker
I don't think we're going to ever get to that because it's too much of a capitalistic society and everybody's getting sold a story with this or sold a story with that. It would take too much of, it would be too much of a heavy lift to cut out Common Core. I still have people argue with me and I know people listening, I'm gonna ruffle feathers. You are gonna probably not like this. I don't know, maybe you will.
00:36:39
Speaker
I don't think kids need to learn cursive. Why are we spending our time on that? The only thing they're going to write cursive is their signature and we're not going to be able to read half of them. No, I
Utilizing Instructional Coaches
00:36:50
Speaker
agree that cursive is dead. All right. I agree. They need to be better at their typing skills. So after handwriting in general,
00:37:01
Speaker
Yeah, we're typing everything. So, you know, you're going to skirt that line. You say like alphabetize, you can have chat GTP, okay, kindergarten, you know, or until you learn to basically read, you probably need to make sure you know what the alphabet is. But after that, why the hell are we doing anything alphabetized? You know, like worksheets, worksheets, how many teachers are still using worksheets?
00:37:28
Speaker
You, one of the first app developments we did when you came to Smith is worksheets don't build dendrites.
00:37:34
Speaker
You know, again, we have all this research and all this knowledge, but yet we keep going backwards. COVID was great because COVID forced you and many teachers to move forward and to deliver things a different way. But now three years later, we're right back into Bazel's. We're right back in the whole group. We're right back into making the kid that can already read sit through a phonics lesson. And I don't understand why.
00:38:03
Speaker
And what is every teacher complaining about? Social, emotional, they can't say they have no stamina. Right. The behaviors are out of control. They can't connect to the fact that you're boring the crap out of them. And that's why they're exhibiting behaviors. In most cases, not all.
00:38:25
Speaker
I've been thinking a lot about it, especially with just like technology and what the kids are doing when they get home from school. And I just, I really think so much of it is they do not have the skills that you and I had as kids. They don't have the opportunity to build those skills.
00:38:50
Speaker
Right. Then it's incumbent upon me as the principal to say, we're going to build them in somehow. Next year, we're probably going to have SEL special somehow. If you only knew people that listen, you've been around me a long time. Next year has already planned out my head. I've already got it all figured out. Wow. Of course. I already know this.
00:39:19
Speaker
I already know the theme, I already know everything. But you're like, again, but so, but like Ali Jean, she told me she's like, thank you for not devaluing music. Okay. So when you if you, you and I sat in Boston one time, we're trying to figure out how to make specials much more pertinent with time and everything. So it's incumbent upon me to use the special time to meet the needs of kids in today's world.
00:39:46
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And that's and that's a challenge because you don't want to unvalue or devalue music, art, etc, etc. Well, and so much of that, like I get what you mean, but so much of it is a daily practice. Yes. And I've realized that which is like my own personal growth. Like if I'm not doing these things every single day,
00:40:12
Speaker
then talking about it once in therapy isn't going to help me. It is a daily practice. So if we know the kids need to know how to communicate, why do so many principals struggle with teachers basically saying, turn to your neighbor and talk? It kind of brings a full circle what you're saying with what you guys are teaching. Yeah. Why? So I go back to,
00:40:43
Speaker
you're saying what you're finding to get your teach on is that they need the basic skills. I am kind of the side that we should have taught them Kagan structures first. Because if you can engage kids, you can teach them anything. So I see both sides. True, yes. But if you can't if you sit, I mean, you taught kindergarten, if you sit and talk to them for more than
00:41:10
Speaker
five minutes and you're not fun and you're not dramatic and animated, you're going to lose them. Yeah. We know this. So why are people still doing it? I think that's also a part of teaching that I'd like to see. I would just really like to see like more independent instructional coaches. Like I think it would be so powerful for our huge district to have
00:41:41
Speaker
Okay, hear me out. Go with me. I will, I will sit back and I will, I will hear you out because I'm already in my mind giving like the, giving like the eye, like, Hmm. I mean, like, you know, have a good pool of instructional coaches of just like varying
00:42:01
Speaker
Personalities, varying specialties, all that stuff. And then to say like, here's the teacher with this need. Okay, well that instructional coach isn't gonna necessarily meet it. That one's not gonna do it, but this one right here, let's bring her in, let's have her do a model lesson, let's do that. Like the fact that there are instructional coaches like for a school, I don't think in the long term helps because then you still have just that one
00:42:30
Speaker
perspective, right? Like me being, I would be a terrible instructional coach. You have no patience for people that won't like.
00:42:39
Speaker
That's not true. I think a lot of times I would go in there and I would do a model lesson and I am so freaking animated and I am loud and my style of teaching is not everyone's style of teaching. And they're gonna see that and they're gonna think, oh, I need to be like this when that's not the case. You have your own magic stuff, you just need to figure out how to get there. So that's what I'm saying.
00:43:08
Speaker
we don't need every teacher to be loud and boisterous and animated. Like some are just not going to be that. But I think if we keep having examples of a certain type of teacher, I think that's where you're going to keep seeing gaps with people because it doesn't feel true and authentic to them. So how can we support because I mean, teaching is so much more than just like
00:43:36
Speaker
the science, it's an art. It's an art. How do we empower more teachers in being confident and owning what they have to bring? One strategy
Teacher Burnout & Support Needs
00:43:53
Speaker
doesn't fit all. In a way you're agreeing with me, but in a way you're not. In a way you're saying they can't all be like you. Right. But at the same point in time,
00:44:03
Speaker
you're saying that everybody can be the best person they can be. Right. So and that also kind of circles back to our initial conversation of why can't everybody care as much as we need them to care. And I had this that I was going to touch on, but I really feel like
00:44:26
Speaker
Teachers do not have the capacity to allow themselves to care as much as maybe they could. Let's go down that road. I think the teachers are spread so thin, not just professionally, but personally. This year, I would agree with you. It's more this year. And I'm curious.
00:44:54
Speaker
old man over here. Okay. When you started teaching, was it so hard to live on a teacher salary? No, and that's what I was going to agree with you is this year of all years is
00:45:13
Speaker
It's mentally draining to some. I don't think everybody's wrapped up in the whole pissed off about the contract stuff. I think a lot of people just say, I have no control over it. I'm going to do my job as best I can. And then you have the other half to like, I'm not doing extra at all. And so why should I care as much? They don't care about me. And I struggle for that because
00:45:43
Speaker
You know, the kids show up, you should do the best you can do whenever you can do it. We all have, sometimes our C game is our A game. But, you know, like this year is more, there's more apathy, I think this year.
00:46:00
Speaker
Because they're overwhelmed with these new programs, and it's not just HMH, they also have Phonics program. They might still be learning Amplify. They're learning ExactPath or Edmentum.
00:46:15
Speaker
it's a lot and so one of my fears which I expressed is all the new programs are going to slow us down because everybody's gonna be so busy trying to figure them out and then what's happening is they're getting frustrated and they don't want to and then that bleeds into everything else it's just like if we could just
00:46:41
Speaker
If we could just be the best we can be and run in our area and get better no matter what that is. Why does it matter? I know what the answer is to some people, but why does it matter how you teach the standards as long as you teach them? If a kid knows how to read at a DRA 18 by the time they leave first grade, why do we care how they got there? We don't.
00:47:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think if we could just step back, like one of my strengths, and you can agree to this, because this is why you didn't quit the profession is, I just basically let you do you. Yeah. Why can't we do that? Well, yeah. So this year, they can't do that, and it's making it worse.
00:47:35
Speaker
I am all for having curriculums as, as support. Like I agree curriculum that I can go to, to support my teaching. I do not want to have to learn something completely new. Like I just, I really wish that the people making these decisions understood.
00:48:03
Speaker
how much energy it takes to learn a new program. One of the two times I think we had disagreements, one of them was when we tried to implement a new finance program. And you're smiling right now.
00:48:16
Speaker
Because you knew what you were doing. Why am I getting in your way? And that's what's happening district-wide right now. Oh, yeah, I know. So the people that know what they're doing, the new program is getting in their way, and it's causing them to hate it even more. And I will bet my left arm that it causes more to quit and retire. And it's not going to have the impact, I don't think, that people think it's going to.
00:48:46
Speaker
The positive impact. Yeah, I mean all of that. But also these poor teachers are having to do all of this and then go home and parents. And do homework with their kid that hates to do homework.
00:49:11
Speaker
homework with their kid and struggle with finances and struggle with every other aspect of being a human right now. Like I think that's just an, I, teaching now is so drastically different than 20 years ago, right? It is a completely different world and we're treating it the same way. I mean, the same way we're feeding it to kids the same way and
00:49:40
Speaker
Like I believe that teachers could have the workload that they have and be happy if they had more money in the sense that it creates a cushier life for them, where they can afford like,
00:50:00
Speaker
take
Empowering Teachers & Final Reflections
00:50:01
Speaker
out when they get home and they can't afford to go get massages once a month and they can't afford like the little luxuries that can be trickled out throughout their day.
00:50:13
Speaker
But instead, they're worrying about how they're gonna afford groceries. Like right now, things are really freaking hard. Yeah, well, I mean, we can get into debate why, but it's, we'll say that one. But you're not wrong, but I'm gonna be fascinated because I also believe, someone made a good point and I think you just batch it up that.
00:50:36
Speaker
when they get their raise, it's going to give them some it's going to allow them to get some things that are going to make their life better. So money money can buy a little bit of happiness. It definitely can. I think teachers have the workload of doctors. And the reason doctors can do their job without burning out quite like teachers are right now is because they do have the luxury of
00:51:05
Speaker
But let me retort, while it might make your life a little bit better, it would not make you care more or work harder if you got a raise or not. No. And that's what I think is the misnomer is that magically, when teachers get an 18% raise over the next two years, and I think it'll happen hopefully,
00:51:31
Speaker
I don't think it's going to make them care more or work more. I think that they're going to be like, well, now we deserve 10 more because it's been two years later. You're always going to have that group. Well, yeah.
00:51:44
Speaker
You're you are, you know, you are the people we worked with that we that we respect and value are not going to work harder when they get more money because they already work as hard as they can. I think that like you said, though, they'll have some freedoms and some joys at home. But my hope is that they don't go get a massage so that they can work more when they're more relaxed. Does that make sense?
00:52:15
Speaker
long pause, I'll wait. So if you have basically, no, my hope, like, if you get when the teachers get their raise, yeah, I don't the people that are already working just working themselves to death.
00:52:33
Speaker
I don't want them to spend the money on things that make them be able to work themselves even more to death. Okay, well, let's be real. They're still not making as much as they need to make to- No one disagrees with that. No, like they need to make double. Let's get into this one though. Sorry if you have to go cut me off, but you know I can't talk about anything.
00:52:55
Speaker
back in the day. Sarah, you never went back to college. You never got any credits. You were on a first year teacher salary your whole career. Okay. Doesn't it piss you off to see someone who's worked 28 years doing less? I gotcha.
00:53:15
Speaker
Because there's a lot of teachers out there right now. There's one at our school, I'm not gonna say who it is, who's, or actually probably a few, they're still on a new teacher salary that do way more than many. And they do it with a smile, and it's because they love their job. But then, you know, back at our last school,
00:53:38
Speaker
highest paid person was making probably close to double as you and they didn't care. Care might not be the right word. They they weren't performing to your level. Yeah. So honestly, I don't care. Why? I don't I I mean, I think
00:54:04
Speaker
In some ways, those people friggin' earn it. Like, you've gone this long. Like, you get to sit back and... So what you're now telling me... See, I love this stuff. What you're telling me is if Sarah was in the district 25 years in, she can just sit back and...
00:54:24
Speaker
They're so tired. So I, as a principal, should say, hey, you put your 25 in, your map scores don't matter. Call it good. Let's just coast to the finish line. Yeah. No, I think that's why the system is just completely broken. That's part of it. The system is so broken. But how do we fix that?
00:54:50
Speaker
There's very little research to say that incentive pay works. But how can we fix that? Because it's not like hockey where the best players make the most money or things like that. And even then, sometimes people are way overpaid. I don't know that there's a fair way to basically pay people for their output. I think the job is the job.
00:55:21
Speaker
Like the job is the job. And you get paid for doing the job. But your definition of the job of teaching is different than someone else's. Yeah. But that's just like, I mean, let's keep going back to doctors and lawyers. I mean, that's all professions.
00:55:43
Speaker
Like some aren't as great as others. Some I really do not want operating on me. Yes. That's the, you know, that's the common statement is, you know, when you go, when you need heart surgery, do you want, do you want the person that puts in minimal effort or has, you know, we can make an education has, you know, has the lowest median growth percentile on map or, you know, no, you don't. Yeah. Like, yeah, here we go. Trucking some kids off into that classroom for 180 days.
00:56:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's just a crazy system, man. It really is nuts. Like when you really think about it, like, yeah, it's not. So. All right. What do you, what's your future look like? What are you doing? You're just going to keep designing stuff and doing what you do. You're going to ride this gravy train with biscuit wheels as long as you can. Yeah. And then what, then you're going to like, just see where it takes you. Yeah.
00:56:39
Speaker
I feel like I'm very much of the belief that when I'm meant to take a new opportunity, it will present itself to me. I think none of my jobs I've really had to put in, I wouldn't say effort, because I definitely put in effort, but they've all kind of fell in my lap. Like even coming to our last school,
00:57:09
Speaker
My friend went and I tagged along and Thompson fell in our laps and Get Your Teach On was presented to me. So I think I'm just kind of of that mindset right now. I feel like I'm in this weird place where though I love designing things and having that be what I'm doing, I also miss having an impact.
00:57:39
Speaker
But you do though, because you're- You know what? I have tried so many times to be like, I do have an impact. I work for a company that has an impact. I make things that are in classrooms that make teachers happy, but like- You want the direct, direct it. I am seeing a very deep, direct impact. I know how great I am with kids. I know what I have to offer.
00:58:10
Speaker
I just feel like that's probably, I need to figure out how to fill that void. Do you know what would be fascinating to me is, and I know you won't do it, but hypothetically, if you came back and you taught first grade, it would be fascinating to me to see how much you could get 20 kids to grow. Now, six, seven years later,
00:58:36
Speaker
and knowing all that you know, it would be fascinating to see. I had you once take the students who were on the track to sped or sped to prove or disprove how much they could grow. But now it would be fascinating, like I say, if I gave you the 20 lowest kids in first grade,
00:59:00
Speaker
and said, what can you do with these kids? I think it would be an amazing experiment. It would be great. It would be a great social experiment. Hey, great. So when are you signing up? I got to make it happen. When my kids are coming, graduating. All right. So eight years from now. I feel like leaving teaching, I truly am such a better mom, such a better wife, such a better person. And I hate that. I freaking hate that.
00:59:27
Speaker
But that's, I mean, you're not wrong. You poured so much into it when we were starting Thompson. You're teaching at Smith. I mean, really, this is one of the very few good things about COVID is that it allowed all of us who were going to Thompson to basically collaborate because you didn't have to work at Smith anymore, really. You did the best you could online. But you know, like right now,
00:59:55
Speaker
When you're a teacher, you're trying to do this, and then you're designing all this stuff for the school, and then you're trying to be a mom. I find that right now. I got principalship, which is hard enough, and the podcast, and books. It's hard, and it does take away from your family. I don't want you to persuade people to leave the profession.
01:00:18
Speaker
I don't, I don't at all. I think and that's something I think that was for me, like I truly recognize like that was a me thing. And I, I think a lot of people who are really passionate about it struggle with the balance. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's a serious struggle.
01:00:40
Speaker
Well, maybe you should just contact your son's school and you should just say, hey, I am on a one-year contract. Give me the lowest 20, get out of my way, and let me do my thing. That's the other thing. I got rid of all my stuff.
01:01:07
Speaker
thing like, but you don't need it. You don't need it. Oh, hey, hey, so okay, one more thing. I mean, we're on one over an hour here, but I haven't talked to you for a while. You, you spend so much time on your room. And I was like, they remember saying like, the kids don't notice the fonts. But you would say they do.
01:01:31
Speaker
The classroom is just as much for me. My physical environment matters. It needs to because it's where you're spending a lot of your life. True. Yes. I had so much pride in all of my rooms.
01:01:49
Speaker
kids do notice. Like when they would come in my room, they'd be like, just love it in here. Like, no, they don't know that that font is really aesthetically pleasing or, you know, that layout. But there's something about like the flow of it all that it does matter.
01:02:07
Speaker
I agree with you. It's kind of another antiquated system though. Like how many principals are like, no, you can't pay. No, you can't do this. No, you can't do that. You shouldn't. Yes, we learned that too. You're not wrong on there. Aren't good at painting. But you know what? They cared. They cared enough to try. True. True. But I don't know. I think it's kind of all a
01:02:36
Speaker
Case by case. I agree. I agree. Bang. All right. Well, you were gracious enough to spend over an hour with me. And I appreciate you as always. I'm glad you're happy. You know, like I said, as your boss, you leave you sucks. But as your friend, I'm glad that you're doing it. And that's true today. Yeah, I'm doing it. You got it, girl. All right. Well, hey, you know, no matter where you stand on the issues, in the end,
01:03:03
Speaker
It's all about perspective. Yes, it is, Sarah Goloby. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate you. Okay. Bye.