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Episode 96: The Pit featuring Angela Carlucci
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Baker, musician, and artist Angela Carlucci is in the studio today and there’s taking us someplace dark with The Pit (1981). This Canadian chiller is the story of a sexually-deviant 12-year-old boy, the long-term babysitter he lusts after and the sentient teddy bear who tells him to throw his enemies into a pit of trolls. The first two details make sense together, that bear and the titular pit are like a bolt out of the blue, much like this film. No one will learn anything, nor will anyone respond appropriately to the boy who was “only watching you sleep.” And, again, there’s the bear and the pit, also the trolls. It’s a lot, yet turns out to be an oddly good time. You can join us, have some laughs, and learn a little about the film financing trick that truly bolstered the output of Canadian cinema. Tune in!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Appearance
00:00:40
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to your favorite bad movie podcast. It's the only podcast that's brave enough to ask the question, if this movie's so bad, why do you like it so much?
00:00:52
Speaker
We're your hosts. I'm obviously a ah unpleasant little pervert. So I must be the Jamie of the show. I'm Chris Anderson.
00:01:06
Speaker
And with me, as always, i have my cuddly, wuddly best friend. He must be the Teddy of the show. It's Mr. Greg Bossy.
00:01:16
Speaker
I didn't know what I was going to be or what you were going to say in the fact that you've made me Teddy d delights me, Chris. Thank you. How are you tonight? I'm doing pretty good. I'm very excited to talk about this movie. Yes, so am I.
00:01:33
Speaker
There is a dark cloud on the horizon. Unfortunately, we do not have. Obviously, they use they them pronouns and no one ever sees them. But me. It's my wonderful wife. Anna could not be here tonight, ah but they would be the troller logs of the show. Obviously, it makes sense in its way. Yeah. They them pronouns. No one sees them. But me. I have a singular obsession with them.
Summary and Character Analysis of 'The Pit'
00:01:59
Speaker
You often throw people at them for some reason. Well, that's – we don't talk about that. That's a joke. That's a joke, people. Let's not let's not read too much into that audience.
00:02:10
Speaker
But I am very excited that we have a very special guest with us. You might know her as an artist, a musician, a baker, an educator, or perhaps simply everyone who has ever met her's favorite person. So she must be our own personal Sandy. It's Angela Carlucci.
00:02:32
Speaker
Wow. so Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to have you. It's at such a treat to see you. And it's also such a treat to watch this movie, The Pit. I'd never seen The Pit before.
00:02:49
Speaker
Oh, I'm so excited to, I'm beyond excited to share it with all of you. And I can't believe I'm sandy. I'm reeling, reeling in the glow.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, it was it was a real sucker punch. This movie came out swinging. Oh, it did. Listers, if you haven't seen The Pit, here's just a short summary.
00:03:14
Speaker
No, it's it's a little bit obscure. It's understandable if this one flew under your radar. ah But here's just a brief summary to hold in your mind.
00:03:30
Speaker
An evil, perverted 12-year-old boy has befriended a pit full of monsters. And with the help of his sentient teddy bear, he lures his assorted enemies into it.
00:03:46
Speaker
I mean, yeah Yes. Befriended a pit. That's near as I can tell what he does to the pit. Yeah.
00:03:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's I didn't know if the pit was going to be like metaphorical, but it's not. No. no it is It is an actual true pit.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yeah. Angela, how did you come across the pit? Do you remember note remember your history with the pit? I do, and I confirmed it with my brother, Toby, just to be sure.
00:04:19
Speaker
um we grew up in a household with a horror movie-loving mother, but she particularly loved B-horror movies. She loved the weird, bad ones, and she'd say them to us, and we'd laugh, and we'd You know, we'd be a little scared, but, you know, it was all like just a good time because we knew they were silly and bizarre. And this was one of them.
00:04:45
Speaker
And I really i latched on to this one. I watched it so many times in middle school, mid school, but I think I tapered off. But middle school for sure was a little easy.
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah. Age appropriate? I don't know. i guess. i was a respond um ah around Jamie's age? Jamie's age, yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker
Got his name. Thank you. That's all right. It's... It's interesting. I normally think of movies that ah star kids are aimed at like kids being a little bit younger than them. So like a movie about a 15 year old is for 13 year olds, you know, movies about middle schoolers are for elementary school kids. Cause they can be like, that's what I'm going to be like. It's aspirational.
00:05:35
Speaker
yeah Yeah. But I don't think this movie is for like a 10 year old. No, no, no. ah This definitely flies against that theory. I had never seen this one before. i don't think I had even heard of it before.
00:05:50
Speaker
Greg, had you heard of this one? No, this one was a complete, ah like, I feel like when I looked at the poster, I was like, that seems familiar. But I'm sure it was just like one of these things that popped up on Amazon. It's like, watch one of these 30 horror movies. It was just like, oh, the pit. Oh, the gate. Oh, the whatever. And I just kind of, you know, because its name is The Pit.
00:06:11
Speaker
So it's like it doesn't really tell you a lot about it. It's very short. It's very simple. And so you're just like, oh, there's a pit, I guess. And Like, I didn't know it like an Alfred, or I'm sorry, not Alfred Hitchcock, but Pit in the Pendulum, Edgar Allan Poe, you know, like, is this a Poe thing? It's like, no, no, no, no. So I had no idea what this was, never even heard of it.
00:06:32
Speaker
But I got to say, love Canadian cinema, very excited to be seeing another Canadian horror film, so. e e Yeah. Nice to have some can con in the show. Shout out to any Canadian listeners.
00:06:45
Speaker
This one's for you. We're sorry for America right now. Hopefully things will be better soon. Uh, but, uh, and I could, it's such just that you bring up the gate because in some of the images of our main character, Jamie, he does look kind of like Steven Dorff in the gate. Okay. Unless he turns his head 25 degrees. He has a very pronounced nose on this case. It's very distinct. It gives him a lot of character. Very strong.
00:07:16
Speaker
If he lies on his back, he does look like a dew drop for a head. You know, it it comes to that fine, a distinct point. Interesting. In my opinion.
00:07:30
Speaker
hu
00:07:32
Speaker
But with that, i I was able to put in a little bit of context research on this movie. Not a lot. Do you guys want to hear what I found out? Desperately.
Director Lou Lehman and Production Insights
00:07:43
Speaker
All right, then let me play that bumper.
00:07:59
Speaker
I wish I had some context about the background of the film. Script director, actors on set. What was going on on screen? I want to hear some details.
00:08:10
Speaker
Gossip stream to all that shit. Can't imagine all the time.
00:08:27
Speaker
So The Pit was released October 23rd, 1981, just in time for Halloween,
00:08:35
Speaker
which really works with the opening scene, I think. Definitely. Oh, yeah. So you got your your director, Lou Lehman. and Now's a good time to mention this episode is sponsored by Lululemon and their line of Lululemon Lululemon Lululemon line.
00:08:57
Speaker
Use promo code Lululemon
00:09:03
Speaker
for free shipping. Two taglines for this movie. okay Tagline number one. Jamie wouldn't kill anyone unless Teddy told him to.
00:09:17
Speaker
I like it. I like It addresses the first first half of the film. Yeah, it addresses one fourth of the things that are going on in this film.
00:09:32
Speaker
Tagline number two. Down in the pit, there's something alive. Half human, half mutant, half crazed.
00:09:43
Speaker
Pray to God it only kills you.
00:09:49
Speaker
i i feel i feel about that one, and I don't know the way in which I feel about it, I guess. But it's strong. Yeah, it's a long tagline.
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, they got to tighten it up. It got lost in the sauce. little I also like, i I don't know if anyone here, one of my favorite lines from ah ah the the the clowns from outer space, which is every killer clowns from outer space. is Someone's like, don't worry, I'm just going to kill you. Like, it's a great line, but it's also like, I don't want a tagline to be like, and if you're lucky, they'll only kill you. It's like, I don't want to think about the other things you're going to do to me if they didn't kill me. You know what I mean? Like this is, that doesn't make me want to watch your movie.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah. Don't say, don't worry. They're going to kill you. then so That doesn't sound great. Yeah. So who is lou Lehman other than the latest collaborator with Lululemon?
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I'm not 100% sure who Lou Lehman is. there's There's not a lot of info out there about the man. i was able to get most of it from his obituary. RIP Lou Lehman.
00:11:01
Speaker
um But ah so it's sort of like I'm assembling a jigsaw puzzle without all the pieces or the picture on the box. So here's what I got.
00:11:13
Speaker
I know that he was born in Boston in 1933. So he would have been just shy of 50 years old when he made this movie. He served in the army after World War II, stationed in Munich in the special services unit. I don't know what that unit did.
00:11:31
Speaker
Special things. Yeah. Maybe, maybe I'm not allowed to know. Yeah. Maybe he's seen too much like a pit of some sort. Yeah.
00:11:43
Speaker
When he returned home, he was one of the founders of the Charles Playhouse in Boston, where he worked with actors like Olympia Dukakis and Frank Langella. Nice.
00:11:56
Speaker
Later on, he moved to New York and started working for a company called MPO Productions, doing commercials and industrial films. I love the term industrial films.
00:12:07
Speaker
Not always what it means, but I like it as a as a as a genre. Yeah. It's like the safety movies that they show you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like how, yeah, it's stuff that they show you at work.
00:12:19
Speaker
Oh yeah. I would love that job. It would be great. i Yeah. We make industrial films. Just tell us what you need. Yeah. You want us to videotape your guy you operating a hamper loader properly.
00:12:34
Speaker
You got it. So by 1971, had moved to Canada for some reason. And, uh, he directed his first film South of hell mountain.
00:12:48
Speaker
i like the title. It's a great title. Uh, it's a movie about a trio of armed robbers on the lamb who end up holed up in a remote cabin with a mother and daughter who lived there. And from there, I'm assuming lots of bad things happen. It seems like a home invasion movie.
00:13:08
Speaker
Uh, It must not have done very well ah because he then spent most of the seventies working as a music supervisor for television, specifically for the shows police surgeon and Swiss family Robinson police surgeon sounds great. It does.
00:13:26
Speaker
I'm definitely going to try and track down some apps of police surgeon. Now, according to his obituary, at some point or another, he was elected president of the director's guild of Canada.
00:13:38
Speaker
look Good for him. man That made no sense to me. No. He only has one other directing credit, the pit in 1981.
00:13:50
Speaker
So I'm not sure how or when he got that position. I did email the director's guild of Canada for more information, but as of this recording, they have declined to respond.
00:14:01
Speaker
I'm very glad that you've done that. I gave it a whirl listeners. I left no stone unturned. You're a real journalist. Yeah. You know, someone needs to tell lou Lehman's story. yeah Someone who only has a week to do research for their bad movie podcast.
00:14:23
Speaker
ah
00:14:28
Speaker
Hey, everybody, Chris here. Just wanted to give you a heads up. We did end up hearing back from the Directors Guild of Canada. They did confirm that Lou Lehman joined the Guild in 1979, and he served as the DDC national president from 1981 to 1983.
00:14:48
Speaker
So it almost raises more questions than answers, but I do want to thank the Directors Guild of Canada and Billy over at the Directors Guild of Canada for getting back to us.
00:15:01
Speaker
That's awesome. Thank you so much. ah So in 1981, he makes The Pit. The original script was called Teddy. It was written by Ian A. Stewart.
00:15:15
Speaker
It was much darker in tone. It featured much fewer comedic elements. It also had the main character being a little bit younger at eight or nine years old. Wow.
00:15:27
Speaker
Which would definitely make it creepier. Very much so. So Layman aged up a little bit and he lightened the tone and he also ah added almost all the supernatural stuff ah in the original draft.
00:15:45
Speaker
All of this was in Jamie's head. He was the one who's like, then no, we'll make the Trollologues real. mula What we should do is we should make the teddy bear actually a lot. yeah i Amazing. ah But there is a novel.
00:15:59
Speaker
Yeah. Who could argue? they make the movie what it is. I'll give it that. That's true. There is a ah novelization based on the original script called Teddy.
00:16:12
Speaker
It was written by a guy called John Galt, which I'm assuming is a pen name since that was the name of the main character in Anne Rand book. I would love to read that.
00:16:23
Speaker
ah You could find used copies online. I will hunt one down. ah So it was shot with a budget of $900,000 Canadian.
00:16:33
Speaker
Wow. That's just shy of a mil. Yeah. Yeah. that Well, you had to get those troll costumes that you. Oh, I just was saying, where did it go?
00:16:47
Speaker
but the troll costumes? Yeah, I think you got at least four troll costumes that you can barely see. ah And I think that's about it. I think that's literally the only thing in this movie that could cost any money. They might've had to rent cars.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. The movie must not have done well because after this, Lou Lehman stopped working in film pretty much altogether.
00:17:14
Speaker
Okay. He took three acting roles in 1994, but those were his last IMDb credits. other than appearing in a short film called Felicity's View in 2000, the same year that he passed away.
00:17:33
Speaker
So that's pretty much all I know about the the The Pit.
Detailed Plot Discussion and Themes
00:17:39
Speaker
The Pit is the name of the movie. It's so forgettable. It's such a shame.
00:17:47
Speaker
Other Canadian horror films of 1981. yeah What else good could the Canuck Fright fans see? You got Scanners, the big one. obviously yes yes yeah Classic.
00:18:03
Speaker
ah For more straight down the line slasher, you got My Bloody Valentine. Oh, great. You got something called... the oh Oh, I've seen this one. You've got Happy Birthday to Me.
00:18:18
Speaker
That was Canadian. Came out this year. That's a horror film? It's a a little slasher. Okay.
00:18:28
Speaker
got something called Ghost Keeper.
00:18:33
Speaker
I'm writing all of these down. Okay, good. The last one you got, The Incubus. Not to be confused with Incubus.
00:18:46
Speaker
I have seen one or none of those. But if interested in both, maybe. This is not the William Shatner Esperanto movie.
00:18:57
Speaker
Okay. This is something else. That's the Incubus. But enough about Incubi. Do you guys want to talk about the plot of the pit? As it were, yes Let's do it There's a lot of it.
00:19:28
Speaker
Plot bumper, listen to me. I'm gonna give you the plot summary. Come on, baby. Here's the synopsis.
00:19:41
Speaker
Plot bumper, plot bumper.
00:19:54
Speaker
So the movie opens very suddenly. So suddenly that you'll think something is wrong. yeah It's not. yeah It really he feels like you have started in the middle of the movie. It's very jarring. it but it's a home I also realize that like that I feel like there's no indication that it's Halloween in any other scenes of this film.
00:20:18
Speaker
It might just be a costume party for children. Maybe because there's like no like jack-o'-lanterns out. We never see trick-or-treaters. No one is you know what I mean? Like usually when it's around Halloween, there's some kind of context for that. And this is just like, it's a bunch of kids in costumes. and So yeah, maybe it is just a costume party.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah, i really latched on to the clown birthday cake, and i or a clown cake, and I thought, huh. Okay. Cakes for Halloween? So perhaps it was a costume birthday. Yeah, maybe was a costume birthday.
00:20:50
Speaker
Yeah. I wanted to ask you about the cake as a professional baker. What was your take of this clown decorating? What would you grade it? Oh, I mean, I thought it was excellent. It's so eighties.
00:21:02
Speaker
It just, it's perfect. It's very celebratory. Yeah. Yeah. It's celebratory and there's a scene with a little boy dressed as Dracula and he has cake in his mouth and he's laughing and all you see are his teeth and frosting coating the teeth and i really enjoyed just that one shot. Yeah, he was really having a nice time eating a delicious piece of cake. It was just nice to see in this movie where like most of the time what you're seeing is something horrible.
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:35
Speaker
So a boy in a ghost costume approaches a pirate and a ballerina and tells the pirate that he will give him a sack full of jewels that he found in the woods. If he agrees to stop beating him up and let him join his club, whatever club it is.
00:21:51
Speaker
Yes. Let him join the club. I love this. I love this as like a transaction because this is like definitely a child's transaction where it's like, I'll give you a million dollars to join your club. It's like, you don't have a million dollars. Like, oh yeah, I do. Let me show you like, all right, let's go. It's just like, this is something 12 year olds might do. I feel like this would make more sense with an eight or nine year old. I agree. I agree. But still at the same time, it's childish and I enjoyed that aspect of it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:19
Speaker
But much to everyone's surprise, it turns out that there is a sack full of jewels. but So. ah which Yeah, very surprising to me. And it's sitting at the edge of a very large pit.
00:22:35
Speaker
ah When the pirate goes to pick up the jewels, the ghost pushes him in. And then we smash cut to our title card, the pit. oh But the word the pit does not.
00:22:48
Speaker
go ahead. Oh, I was going to say the word the pit does not appear over the pit. It appears over a teddy bear with glowing eyes. Yeah. The semiotics are very confusing. Yeah.
00:23:00
Speaker
but And this whole cold open. Once again, very confusing. There was also a brief flashback in the cold open of the ghost boy getting punched in the face. yeah Yes. Yeah.
00:23:14
Speaker
Just structurally, like you were feeling completely unmoored for the first five, 10 minutes of this movie. But you do know immediately that the pit is not a metaphor.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yes. True. true So we cut to a sunny suburban street. In the local middle school, our nominal hero, Jamie, is writing on the blackboard 100 times, I will not bring adult books to school.
00:23:40
Speaker
He's sort of his generation's Bart Simpson. Sure.
00:23:47
Speaker
ah His teacher, Mrs. Lind, takes pity on poor Jamie and sends him home, and she returns the adult book, which is a like tasteful photography of nudes book.
00:24:01
Speaker
ah She returns it to the local library and apologizes that one of the pages has been mutilated. A body has been cut out, leaving just the head and feet, which is very disturbing.
00:24:15
Speaker
Yeah. So disturbing. And the teacher, he really lucked out. She was so playful about it. She was like, oh, don't worry about it. It's just a book. Boys will be boys. Yeah.
00:24:27
Speaker
Every 12-year-old will steal a copy of creative nude photography and cut out one of the women in it, if except for her head and feet. It's very it's very standard boy stuff.
00:24:39
Speaker
Boys love looking at a nude woman's body with the head and feet detached. This is very normal. I mean, feet, too. Obviously, you're going to leave those out.
00:24:52
Speaker
But that we then we then find out that Jamie has followed her and that he's used the cutout nudes to create a crude Xerox collage depicting the librarian Marge Livingstone as a nude model.
00:25:07
Speaker
So we've quickly established that Jamie is a pervert and a little turd. We instantly dislike Jamie. Oh, yeah. And a peeping Tom. I mean, when the librarian goes into her little office to open up the book and discover the the photo, she sees, I mean, we see Jamie peeping on her through a window. He's like sitting at the window. He's not even far away looking through the window.
00:25:34
Speaker
no no like his face is like three inches from the glass. Yeah. you can She can hear him like tapping on it. ah So back at Jamie's house, Jamie's mother interviews a potential new babysitter named Sandy. Sandy's very nice. Sandy is studying child psychology. And so she believes she'll be able to handle a problem child like Jamie.
00:25:59
Speaker
Little does she know that Jamie will just be one of the four deadly tests that she faces in her adventure. Yeah.
00:26:09
Speaker
But Jamie, his mom explains, seems detached from reality. And also, all the other children and everyone he meets seems to dislike him. But Sandy doesn't find that at all troubling.
00:26:21
Speaker
No. I've met plenty of exceptional children. Exceptional, yes. Exceptional is a way to describe Jamie, I guess.
00:26:32
Speaker
A wonderful euphemism. Yes. Oh.
00:26:39
Speaker
Even when Jamie's parents invite her for dinner and Jamie takes the opportunity to slide under the table and look up Sandy's skirt, she's still eager to prove what modern childcare techniques can do.
00:26:52
Speaker
oof Yeah. We'll see all this hippie dippy stuff does when it runs into a real freak. You know what I mean? Or a pit or ah yeah. Or four monsters that live in a pit yes or a sentient teddy bear. Right. Yeah.
00:27:09
Speaker
So mom and dad leave Jamie in this near total stranger's care while they take a trip out to Seattle to go house hunting. who ah The first night, Sandy fixes dinner while young Jamie stares directly at her breasts the entire time. Okay.
00:27:29
Speaker
Well, she is always wearing some kind of soft satin top in his defense. It's true. In his defense, I was also frequently staring at Sandy's breasts. I can't entirely blame him.
00:27:43
Speaker
ah Now that night, ah Jamie tells his teddy bear, Teddy, who's sort of like sooty and freaky looking. He's got creepy eyes. His nose.
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah. he's He's clearly seen some rough days. But Jamie tells Teddy, she's not like the others, Teddy. And Teddy responds, she's just what we've been waiting for. That's right.
00:28:08
Speaker
Teddy can talk.
00:28:13
Speaker
And if that wasn't enough of a revelation, Jamie then says to Teddy, I think I'm going to tell her about the things. So there's also things.
00:28:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:27
Speaker
That night, after Sandy tucks him into bed, Jamie calls out for a glass of water just to get a peek at the silhouette of Sandy's boob through her translucent sleepwear that she wears around the house in front of this perverted child.
00:28:41
Speaker
I definitely would wear like a robe if I was living in, you know what i mean? In this babysitter situation, it's like, I'm not going to do this like sheer clothing nude. No, i that that's I'm going to go for a sweatsuit, I think. Yeah.
00:28:56
Speaker
It's October. Definitely. oh But who knows what they're teaching at psychology school.
00:29:07
Speaker
So then she calls up her boyfriend, Alan, and tells him about how Jamie is a little bit weird, but nothing that she can't handle. Then she goes to bed, only to wake up in the morning to find Jamie staring at her single titty that has slipped out of her shirt in her sleep.
00:29:24
Speaker
It's just the nipple. I mean, there's a whole, the scene opens and close up of a nipple. Yeah, pure class. Also, his response, she's like, what are you doing? And he's like, I was just watching you sleep.
00:29:37
Speaker
i was It's like, that's actually that's actually not very normal. that That response, that thing you're saying is actually the part that is disturbing, actually.
00:29:49
Speaker
It's like catching someone stealing, like, I'm just taking your money. And it's just like, I know. That's why I'm upset. I'm just doing the bad thing that you imagine I am. Yeah.
00:30:02
Speaker
I do have, i've saw an interesting story. I don't know if it's true about the nudity in this film, which is that ah Lou Lehman's wife was not comfortable with him filming nudity. And so he was not on set for most of the nudity. He had his cameraman take care of it. How intriguing.
00:30:19
Speaker
interesting Except. Except for the scene of skinny dipping because the skinny dipper was played by his daughter. And so he said no one but him and the cameraman could be on set that day.
00:30:34
Speaker
No. what And the daughter wanted full frontal nudity and he had to argue with her to put her bottom back up.
00:30:46
Speaker
What? What? This is one of the weirder stories. That is so strange. I did watch an interview with Sandy. man And she mentioned that the wife was there during all of the filming. And I thought, that's interesting. I mean, maybe she's also. yeah That's intriguing.
00:31:08
Speaker
Control freak. A bit of a tangent, but I know that Neil McDonough won't kiss a woman because he's married. He won't kiss a woman in a film because he's married. And it's just like, well, you are acting, though.
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Like, maybe people should know that what you you don't mean the kiss.
00:31:28
Speaker
Well, you know, everybody's got their own comfort levels. and It's true. It's true. We're all allowed to draw our own lines. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's just fascinating.
00:31:40
Speaker
So to make amends for staring at her single nipple, Jamie makes breakfast and he tries to find out if Sandy has a boyfriend by directly asking her. And it turns out the answer is sort of.
00:31:57
Speaker
It's complicated. Yeah. yeah So then he tells her that he knows where there's a hole in the ground in the middle of the woods that's filled with hideous monsters from before time that he calls Trollologues.
00:32:11
Speaker
So yeah, he says that he can both see and hear them and that there's five of them, but he thinks one of them is dead, which is an interesting bit of information.
00:32:22
Speaker
That was my favorite detail. know and He got really sad. I think one of them is dead. Yeah. If you're making that story up and then you include that detail, I'm like, God damn.
00:32:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:32:41
Speaker
Sandy clearly does not believe him and sort of brushes this thing off. So Jamie rushes off to the woods in the hopes that the trullo logs will believe him when he tells them about Sandy.
00:32:53
Speaker
ah So he goes out there and he tells them. Then that afternoon, Sandy takes Jamie with her to see Alan's college football game.
00:33:04
Speaker
After the game, Alan drives both of them home and then makes out with Sandy a little bit while Jamie peeps from the porch. This has been a thoroughly emasculating day for Jamie.
Climax and Resolution Analysis
00:33:15
Speaker
Yeah. So he runs off and cries himself to sleep in the arms of his teddy bear.
00:33:23
Speaker
The next day, Sandy goes to the library to do a little research. Oh, Lord have mercy. Mm-hmm. but That's right. we're got We haven't had a library scene in a while.
00:33:36
Speaker
We have not. Angela, for like our first 10 movies, four of them had scenes of the main character going to the library. So we thought this was going to be happening all the time. and Then it just kind of stopped.
00:33:48
Speaker
Yeah, it was just a weird coincidence. yeah Yeah, it's been too long since we've had a Lord have mercy. So... So Sandy goes to the library to investigate troubled boys. Do you have any books on boys that are a little shitty? And the librarian, Marge Livingstone, informs her that ah Jamie is in fact a pervert.
00:34:11
Speaker
yeah Meanwhile, or perhaps later, Jamie gets tricked by a neighborhood girl named Abra-gail. Not Abigail. No, that really, I thought he was like making a mistake. And eventually, I was like, after the sixth time, was like, I need to find out whether or not her name is Abigail or Abra-gail. And I was like, it's Abra-gail for some reason.
00:34:34
Speaker
i was excited for the credits to roll. yeah I was like, let me get to the bottom of this. Yeah. Yeah. It really was off-putting.
00:34:45
Speaker
But it turns... It's like if they had a character in a movie named Grog, be like, what? Grog? Grog? Did you mean Grog? No, my name's Grog, actually. Mm-hmm.
00:35:01
Speaker
So Abigail has rigged her bicycle to fall apart as soon as she lets Jamie borrow it. And then she laughs at him. This kid just can't catch a break. Also, Abigail's kind of, kind of a shitty person.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yes, she is. And her aunt Mrs. Livingston and she comes out of the house and she's angry. it just doesn't make any angry the wrong person.
00:35:28
Speaker
Well, the thing is, you have to keep in mind, everybody already knows that Jamie is a shitty little pervert. So in any situation, you know, he's built up a pretty bad rep for himself yeah around town. And in that particular moment, his only sin was just believing Aberdale, you know?
00:35:49
Speaker
right Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:53
Speaker
Back at home, Sandy finds a girly mag stuffed under Jamie's mattress. She then puts it back with a sort of boys will be boys shrug and leaves and never really internalizes any of this. So what I find interesting is that when she goes to the library, it's like, that I wonder if the two of them, I wonder if she mentioned the cutting out, but it turns out that both, I think Sandy and Mrs. Lind know that he cut the thing out of the book and it was from the library. And then it was just like, well, you know, it's like, I would be like, I would be like professional therapy or something. You know what I mean? Like this is a bit much.
00:36:31
Speaker
That's a different time. It's true. And there was a pit. Yeah. And that's only one of four major dangers. Yes.
00:36:42
Speaker
The other dangers, of course, Teddy, who was sitting there the whole time. And as soon as Sandy leaves the room, he turns his head. Yes. So, and I'm pretty sure that he answers her through the door at one point. So the question is, is what's going on with Teddy?
00:37:01
Speaker
I know. I don't know. I mean, this this moment clearly proves that Teddy is sentient and alive and able to move, even though it never happens again. in no and he only answers one time.
00:37:16
Speaker
So it's it's just enough to make you go, okay, so the teddy bear is actually talking. And an active agent, it's not just a Jamie's imagination. This is really happening, but it's never explained. No. It almost never seems to be of consequence somehow.
00:37:35
Speaker
Yeah. Teddy's possessed. And it also instantly raises the question. Is he then telling the truth about the trial logs?
00:37:46
Speaker
I guess we'll find out. Yeah. So that night, Jamie continues laying it on really thick, trying to figure out how to hook up with Sandy. He's like, if I just say the right combinations of words, yeah I will logic her into letting me see her titty again.
00:38:04
Speaker
yeah ah Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. ah So for her part, she tries to convince him that he should feel bad that he doesn't have any friends and also that trial logs are not real.
00:38:19
Speaker
Also, I feel like we do need to mention that this entire conversation is happening because Jamie is like, would you wash my back? And she's like, no. And he's like, I'll be covered up in suds. And she's like, all right, but as long as you're covered up.
00:38:33
Speaker
It's like, don't wash him. Don't wash a 12-year-old boy that's not your son. ah yes Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah, it's so strange that she doesn't see that he's clearly like aware of and interested in sex, but does not treat him as a sexual being. Yeah, it's there's a lot of this. It's like, yeah, he's doing a lot of weird sexual stuff, but he'll grow out of that. It's like, will he? He is 12 years old. This feels really intense for anyone.
00:38:59
Speaker
Yes, this feels intense for anybody of any age. yes So, yeah, ah she does end up scrubbing his nude body while he's in the bath while also trying to let him down easy.
00:39:14
Speaker
And so Jamie ends up with his wires a little crossed on that Yeah. I don't blame him. It's confusing. Yeah, that's It's a confusing time. Yeah. And he's asking her if she'll be, um she would one day fall in love with him when he's older. Mm-hmm.
00:39:34
Speaker
and yeah That's very understandable. Yeah. And she's like, maybe she doesn't say maybe, but she doesn't say no, which would be the important answer. Yeah. No. She's like, by the time you're old enough, you will have forgotten about me. Yes. That's what she says.
00:39:49
Speaker
Yeah. This isn't real. What you're feeling. This is all fugazi. So the next morning, Sandy goes for a jog with the teacher, Mrs. Lind, who confirms that, yes, Jamie is a weird pervert.
00:40:04
Speaker
And so Sandy's like, Hmm.
00:40:08
Speaker
Maybe I should only do a couple more horny things with this child. than Just a few. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I'm going to let them cross four or five more lines. And then,
00:40:20
Speaker
ah meanwhile, Jamie throws candy down into the pit to feed the troller logs, but they don't seem to really like them. ah So he goes back to the library to do some research. Oh, Lord have mercy.
00:40:37
Speaker
but And he checks out ah books on ah what I'm assuming are going to be nude references for life drawing and also animal husbandry.
00:40:48
Speaker
Love that the civilization category came up. Yes. The only other place where anyone uses the phrase animal husbandry. Mm-hmm.
00:40:59
Speaker
but ah he does start to think, Oh, maybe they're carnivores. Uh, so he swings by his local butcher shop and he buys a couple of pounds of stew meat and ground beef.
00:41:11
Speaker
And he throws that down there and they love it. They're going crazy for it. Yeah. So excited. Also, I feel like we should mention that the pit is very dark.
00:41:22
Speaker
And as you meant, it's hard to see them. the Really, the only thing you can see is that they have yellow eyes and that their fur seems to be maybe a little shiny. can't really tell.
00:41:33
Speaker
Waxy. what Yeah. Yeah. Greasy something. yeah Wild animals. These are unkempt animals for sure. Yeah. Yeah, but it's just weird to just be like, here you are, and it's just like, oh, oh, and it's just like four sets of eyes, yellow eyes looking up out of the dark, and it's just like, there they are.
00:41:50
Speaker
know the creature's in the pit. And they they get slightly better lit as the film progresses. You can see them a little bit more and more, but you never get a really good look at them, for better or worse.
00:42:03
Speaker
That night, Jamie watches Sandy in the shower and writes, I love you on the bathroom mirror. It's all very normal. God. So she hops out of the shower and comes rushing over to him, wrapped in a towel, and instantly starts yelling at him.
00:42:18
Speaker
And then he asks if he can have a picture to remember her by when she leaves. And she's like, oh you. And walks away.
00:42:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:33
Speaker
The next day, Jamie steals all of Sandy's money to buy bulk grade F meat to throw in a hole in the ground.
00:42:43
Speaker
On the way out to the pit, he bumps into Abragale again, who hits him with the sickest burn I've ever heard in my life. She says, well, if it isn't clumsy, stupid.
00:42:56
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's no coming back from that.
00:43:05
Speaker
She really got his ass. So then he goes to the pit and he throws all that meat in there. Then he bemoans the fact that he's out of money and he has no more money to steal. Teddy tells him that he should get Miss Livingstone in there.
00:43:21
Speaker
But instead of doing that, Jamie decides to sexually terrorize her. A very strange part of the film. Yeah, very weird. Damn, look. So that night he uses a cassette recorder and a payphone home alone to style, except he doesn't alter his voice at all.
00:43:41
Speaker
Which is so hilarious to me that someone's like, somebody called me. it's like, it's clearly Jamie calling you. Yes. We know that he's already sent the weird nudie letter. Yeah. he's Voice and not undisguised. He's even calling her Mrs. Livingston. He's not yeah calling her by her first name. I also do like that. It's just a tape playing. So it was, you know, like how can you have a conversation that you have memorized with the tape of yourself and it just, everything works really smooth.
00:44:11
Speaker
It's not a hitch whatsoever. i love that. yeah Really Panda. um So yeah, the, the tape tells her that ah he's kidnapped Abra Gale, her niece. And if she ever wants to see her again, she has to strip nude in front of her living room window.
00:44:29
Speaker
She gets right to it. Better safe than sorry. ah But then Abigail walks right through the front door and puts a stop to the whole thing. And I bet Mrs. Livingston feels a little bit silly.
00:44:41
Speaker
ah And Jamie is able to snap a few Polaroids before he runs off. And maybe you're imagining this when you're writing it as like Porky's style shenanigan, but it definitely doesn't play that way.
00:44:55
Speaker
No, no. So the next day Sandy asks Jamie, if he stole all the money that they had for food out of her purse and he instantly runs away first to a gazebo.
00:45:08
Speaker
ah And then she walks over with the Zeebo and says, did you steal all the money we have for food out of my purse? And he runs away again and she chases after him, but ah she, he diffuses the situation by offering her a bouquet of freshly picked flowers.
00:45:28
Speaker
Works every time. yes Hey, it's a classic. Exactly from the bush he's standing in front of. Yeah. But he did put them together in a nice arrangement, so I appreciated that. I appreciated that attention to detail.
00:45:45
Speaker
Maybe one day he'll be a florist. it's Pervert florist. This is actually three out of ten florists' backstory. They all involve the pit and...
00:45:59
Speaker
florists watch this movie basically like it's cocktail. Yep.
00:46:07
Speaker
Uh, so then he spends the day trying to steal meat and meat animals to throw into the pit, but he doesn't have any luck. He tries to steal a cow leg. He almost gets caught, tries to steal an entire cow, but it's not particularly helpful.
00:46:20
Speaker
Yep. Tries to steal some chickens, but they're just too darn quick. Uh, Really hilarious montage in its way. Yeah, there are a couple of like comedy montages. It's so bizarre.
00:46:37
Speaker
So he talks to Teddy about it, and they both agree there's nothing for it but to start luring people in that he knows and dislikes. um Two birds, one stone.
00:46:47
Speaker
That's right. yeah Makes sense. Off to the pit. Yeah. So in fairly rapid succession, he lures in Abra Gale and then an old blind woman in a wheelchair that ratted him out for something once.
00:47:05
Speaker
And then Alan, the football boyfriend, he throws them all into the pit. He's like, go long, Alan. And Alan falls into the pit. I love how many people don't see the pit.
00:47:18
Speaker
Yeah. None of them. It's pretty big pit. It's huge. i mean, the blind woman. Yeah, sure. sure Yeah, that that's reasonable.
00:47:29
Speaker
But I mean, it's large enough to house four to five trial logs. Yeah. right
00:47:37
Speaker
That night. He. Oh, wait. No, no. Sorry. Then we cut back to the Halloween party from the cold open. With the addendum that he also then knocks out the ballerina and tosses her into the pit as well.
00:47:53
Speaker
But it's really weird to have the exact same scene twice in the movie. Yeah. It's so weird. Yeah. It's not a short scene either. No. And they didn't change it in any way, shape or form.
00:48:06
Speaker
Right. Well, they got rid of the punching flashback. Okay, sure. No, I don't think they did actually. but maybe they i know that they'd use the punching flashback again. And another point, the punching flashback still got reused. Maybe, maybe that's what I'm thinking of. There's a lot to try to remember in this movie.
00:48:24
Speaker
It's dense. It keeps it moving. It's almost like two movies sort of, because it's like, you've got Teddy and you've got the pit and it's like, I don't know which one is more of the movie.
00:48:36
Speaker
Yeah. You've also got a perverted child. Yeah.
00:48:41
Speaker
And you've got the Troll-a-logs. There's that. There's the four deadly dangers of the movie The Pit.
00:48:50
Speaker
ah tu tutata da Polaroids. the People he dislikes into The Pit. Halloween party. So that night, or perhaps another night, sometime at night, ah he sees Sandy kissing another boy.
00:49:09
Speaker
This time a mustachioed fella named Garth.
00:49:14
Speaker
Jamie, feeling threatened, tells her that he's been feeding the missing people to the trollalogues.
00:49:24
Speaker
Sandy decides to change tactics. He says, yeah, I believe you. I think there are trollalogues. Sure. You got it. Yeah, they're real. You got them. Uh, and she says she'll even come out and look at them if he agrees to quote, give up all this love me stuff.
00:49:45
Speaker
Yeah. This is too little too late. Yeah. sand Come on.
00:49:51
Speaker
Uh, so Jamie's like, yeah, they run out to the woods immediately. She doesn't even put on practical shoes. Yeah.
00:50:02
Speaker
But much to Sandy's surprise and frankly, my surprise, the trial logs are real. Sandy can also see them. Yeah. Everything is real in this movie. Yeah.
00:50:14
Speaker
Nothing is a metaphor. I mean, it might be, but it's also very, very real. Yeah. Nothing is a hallucination. Yeah. Yeah. So Sandy insists that they have to tell scientists about them, that they're probably some sort of missing link or something.
00:50:30
Speaker
And Jamie tries to convince her otherwise. After all, she promised to keep it a secret. ah But before she can get her to, you know, keep her word, she slips on the edge of the pit and just falls in and dies. yeah You got to put up a barrier around your pits.
00:50:48
Speaker
Not if you want to s seduce people into falling into it for the purposes of feeding the trollal logs inside. ah Also, I noticed with her, and I think with most of the victims of the pit, once they fall, there's no sound from those victims.
00:51:07
Speaker
which I found really bizarre. I mean, I don't know if it's that way for everybody, but it was that way for at least Sandy and a few other people, where it's just like they've fallen into the pit, moving on. It's like they wouldn't scream as they fall. They wouldn't scream as they're being devoured.
00:51:22
Speaker
But no that that made it ah sort of eerie and more disturbing to me. Yeah, you hear the troglodytes munching away, or you hear like a roar from them.
00:51:32
Speaker
But you don't hear the people upset and it just that really like made me feel slightly uneasy. Oh yeah. it up It would have, uh, it's, it is funny for me to imagine if the Trawler logs had been in Jamie's mind and then these people were just falling into a deep hole.
00:51:53
Speaker
Yeah. And just like, to be like yeah I think I broke my leg. Mm hmm. You know, for like three days. That'd be horrifying. um But yeah.
00:52:07
Speaker
Fortunately, there are trial logs and they tear poor Sandy limb from limb. Jamie runs home and he cries about it to Teddy, but Teddy tells him that it's not really his fault.
00:52:19
Speaker
nop ah Jamie's parents come home. Jamie tells them and eventually the cops that Sandy ran off with Garth. Then he sees Sandy's ghost covered him blood, telling him that he shouldn't lie.
00:52:35
Speaker
Now you might say, i think this was just Jamie's guilty conscience, but none of the other things that Jamie has seen have been hallucinations. Hmm. So I'm going assume that this blood covered ghost is also real.
00:52:49
Speaker
The fifth deadly danger of the pit. Yeah. I will say that was one of the scariest parts of the film for me seeing. For sure. Yeah.
00:53:00
Speaker
The other night, seeing the ghost. i was like, Ooh, that's creepy. Yeah. Yeah. That was a genuine, cause I was not expecting that at all. It really caught me by surprise. There's a lot of surprises in this one. And that was certainly one of them.
00:53:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:15
Speaker
Now, meanwhile, the cops, they bring in Garth for questioning. It turns out Jamie planted a bunch of murder evidence in his car at some point. Very smart. Class. yeah I bet that was Teddy's idea.
00:53:28
Speaker
Yeah, probably. The sentient teddy bear. Yeah. He's the he pulls the strings. It's true. But Garth is able to clear the whole thing up. I guess he's got an alibi or something.
00:53:42
Speaker
Meanwhile, Jamie starts to feel bad for the now starving Troll of Logs. He no longer has it in him to lure people out there to feed to them. And he doesn't know anybody else that he considers nasty enough to feed to them.
00:53:54
Speaker
He has his limits. Yeah. yeah He's not a monster. So instead he throws a rope down into the pit and he lets all the Troll of Logs out.
00:54:06
Speaker
Maybe he is a monster. Yeah. Tough to say. This is the weirdest choice to me to just be like, I can't feed you anymore. So going have to do it yourself. Everybody.
00:54:17
Speaker
like, what?
00:54:20
Speaker
Very straight. A real turn in this movie that I was not expecting. genuinely thought this movie would have ended several times by now. No, it's true. also at this point, we've kind of dropped the sexual deviance angle and it's just about the pit in the trallelogues at this point.
00:54:36
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. ah So the trial of logs come out and they start murdering a bunch of people, bicyclists, a skinny dipper played by the director's daughter.
00:54:49
Speaker
And so the cops, they organize a big hunting party. The hunting party drive the trial of logs back into the pit and then shoot them all to death and then bulldoze the pit for good measure, presumably also burying all of the victims.
00:55:03
Speaker
Yeah. this all takes, I want to say about 10 minutes. It's a weird, like fourth act to the movie. yeah And they, they're also like, they call it in and they're like, yeah, it was just pigs. They're the ones that have been killing everybody. And we shot them and we're just going to bury them out here. Cause it's easier that way.
00:55:23
Speaker
It's like, you'd think you just call somebody and be like, we don't know what these are. so we're going to let you handle it because obviously they're not people. They don't want a bunch of people come into their small town. They like their quiet life. I do got to say I like the cops where it's just like, look, it's it's a it's a girl. It's a bicycle from the girl who was abducted or ran away or whatever. But like, I can ride it. ha And it's just like this this cop, he does not care. Yeah.
00:55:55
Speaker
They don't want to work. No. Yeah. Nobody wants to work anymore. It's true. I did find it very sad that the trala logs end up running away back into the pit. Like they are they seemed scared or that at least that's how I read what was going on. I felt bad for them. Yeah. They're almost blameless in a way. I mean, I don't know what their life is and I'm, how do we explain to them that you can't eat us?
00:56:22
Speaker
thinking You know? Yeah. Frankly, Sandy was right. They would have been better off in a zoo. No, i agree. Yeah. i agree Yeah, that that would have been the best option. Yeah.
00:56:34
Speaker
Then we get a nice little coda on the movie. Still not done. Still not done. wes We still have the original deadly danger of the pit. And that's, of course, Jamie, the evil pervert.
00:56:47
Speaker
Yeah. Jamie gets sent out to the country to live with his meemaw and peepaw.
00:56:54
Speaker
Meemaw and Peepaw introduce him to a little namer girl named a Alicia, who challenges him to a quick game of tag, not by saying, obviously, the classic tag, you're it, but instead, okay, you chase me.
00:57:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:11
Speaker
Maybe that's why i immediately was just like, I think I know where this is going. oh you knew. As soon as she said, you chase me, I was like, oh, she's got a pit.
00:57:22
Speaker
oh Oh, Greg, that's amazing. Very sharp. addict Not to spoil it for anybody, but we're about to do that shortly anyway. So I think we already spoiled it. Yeah. I was too distracted by the turn of phrase. I was like, is tag copyrighted?
00:57:37
Speaker
Does somebody own tag? ah So he does indeed chase her under the woods where she does indeed have her own pit and she has her own trollalongs. And she pushes Jamie in.
00:57:51
Speaker
What a twist. yeah I actually, I wrote perfect ending.
00:57:59
Speaker
Yay. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, i think you didn't need that. Yeah. I think you didn't need a lot of, I don't know what this movie needed. It didn't need anything. It's perfect. I was to say, I don't think, I think we, I think we're going to leave the pit alone. The pit is singular and I'm happy about that.
00:58:19
Speaker
Yeah, I don't need to Monday morning quarterback the pit.
Canadian Film Industry and Tax Shelters
00:58:23
Speaker
I did wonder if Alicia had her own trowel logs. I mean, that's what I thought the first, you know, the first many times I'd seen it. But then this most recent time, I thought, huh, is there an underground network where those those are the same trowel logs they somehow dug their way through the earth?
00:58:44
Speaker
No. No, because they got shot a bunch of times. Yeah. Oh, right, right. I also feel like part of part of the confusion comes from the fact that I'm pretty sure they used the same pit for her. They just like shot it up so you can't get a lot of detail. So it looks like she's gone right back to the same place he's gone to.
00:59:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, they just came to the pit from a different angle. Yeah. It felt like.
00:59:07
Speaker
But Meemaw and Peepaw, they live way out in the country. That's true. So. right Final thoughts, five-star ratings. Greg, why don't you kick us off? All right. So I ah really enjoyed this one, despite the sexual deviance. I feel like it handled the sexual deviance, at least by like casting Jamie as an actual like bad child that you're not supposed to emulate in his behavior.
00:59:35
Speaker
Well, he does make someone undress. It didn't feel as crazy as exploit exploitative as I thought it was going to get. And then in the end, they ah more or less condemned Jamie. I was like, okay, this is good because they're not saying like, yeah look at this boys. There's also this going on in there. It was just like, he's he's a he's a sexual deviant and we're not supposed to like him.
00:59:58
Speaker
Yeah. And so I appreciated that. So I'm going to give it, I would give it five stars, but it is sexually deviant. so I'm going to say four and a half for watchability. I think some of that's going to get in the way for some people. I think some people are going to balk at some of that, but it's also just ridiculous. ah The comedy scenes don't make any sense.
01:00:18
Speaker
It's got a sentient bear in it for a reason, and I don't know what it is. ah There's a scene that we didn't talk with the first time Jamie runs out to the pit. You see him run. It's like a single shot. He's like running and then he stops, takes a rest, and then he runs, and then he stops and he takes a rest and then he runs. And it's just like,
01:00:38
Speaker
Are you making a joke? Do you not understand how to make movies? But I think it was a joke. it's It's such a bizarre movie. in a Yeah. That we talk about where it's always constantly surprising you. There's always something new. Because you're like obviously, these are in his head. No, those are real. Obviously, the teddy bear, like he's talking. No, the teddy bear is talking.
01:00:59
Speaker
There's not a lot of explanation. It's bewildering. Loved it. And it's pretty weird. I'm going to do four and a half for this one as well. Cause again, my bar is like Southland tales. This isn't a Southland tales, but it is very weird.
01:01:13
Speaker
It is very weird. I will agree I came into very close to you. I gave it a four and a half and watchability. I found it kind of frequently disorienting at the beginning, you know? ah but yeah,
01:01:26
Speaker
It definitely succeeds in finding new and exciting ways to be weird constantly the whole way through. You're always surprised. You're always delighted. A series of magic tricks you've never seen before. Now, for weirdness, I also gave it five stars. I think a pervy 12-year-old is an incredibly odd choice for a protagonist. Yeah.
01:01:47
Speaker
I think structurally this movie is so strange. I would love to like make a chart. What happens in this movie? I'd love to look at a chart.
01:01:59
Speaker
Uh, like it So in a way that you never catch your balance, no you never are able to catch your breath because you heard how plot heavy it was. Things are constantly going on. There's never a moment where you're like, okay, now Jamie is just like,
01:02:17
Speaker
walking to school and you can process what just happened to me for like 10 seconds. It's always more crazy shit. So yeah, five stars for weirdness for me, Angela on our watchability and weirdness matrix. What do you Oh my gosh. I'm writing. I'm writing. Both of y'all's trains and watchability, I gave it a 4.5 for any of the reasons Greg stated. I know it's, you know, an older movie. Times have changed, but the creepy sexual things shouldn't be ignored. Yeah. Yeah.
01:02:55
Speaker
And also the you know the scene with the townspeople where they they come out to um hunt the trollalogues, that part always kind of like I lose steam at that point.
01:03:08
Speaker
Yeah. so for those reasons, 4.5 and watchability, five um five stars for weirdness. This movie is incredible. And a huge takeaway for me is that if someone tells you,
01:03:25
Speaker
I'm going to tell you a secret. Or I want to tell you a secret. Or many of the iterations of that kind of thing that Jamie said in this film, just say no, because there were many times where he stated, i have a secret.
01:03:43
Speaker
I'm going to tell you a secret. Yeah. It was weird and creepy and good. And all those little details where there's no follow through that. I wonder if there was just many scenes were shot and it was edited out like Teddy head moving on its own. I wondered, Oh, well, was there more to that? Or was it truly just supposed to be a little taste for us to kind of like, um, bask in.
01:04:12
Speaker
And no idea why they made Teddy's head move. no idea. sorry And I think I did if it's okay to share now I did have a favorite line the film. Oh please.
01:04:25
Speaker
Please, I want to hear it. Jamie goes back to the butcher. So he's already bought 20 worth of And then he says his parents are having a party. Then he goes back the next day, I think, and buys more, maybe $20 more, just tons of meat. And the butcher is like, hey, yeah wow, are you having people over? like aren Aren't your parents out of town, actually?
01:04:51
Speaker
and Jamie says, well, it is for $5. looks around people. Yeah. with your heish way Anyway, favorite line. and I wrote, I wrote that one down. was just like, that's fantastic.
01:05:08
Speaker
ah
01:05:12
Speaker
Well, with that, do you guys want to move on to act three of the show? Yes. Yes. All right. Then we're heading to a little mini film school.
01:05:23
Speaker
One of my favorite bumpers.
01:05:37
Speaker
Film School. It's gonna be great.
01:05:43
Speaker
It's Mini Film School. We're gonna teach you a lesson in our Mini Film School now. And class is in session.
01:05:57
Speaker
Mini Film School. Move over. Beach Boys is a new king of tight harmonies. beach boys is a new king of tight harmonies
01:06:14
Speaker
So
Closing Remarks and Games
01:06:15
Speaker
I want to talk a little bit about Canadian tax shelter films. This was a Canadian tax shelter film. That makes sense. So in 1975, a change in Canadian tax law took effect.
01:06:29
Speaker
The major effects that we're interested in is that it allowed investors to deduct 100% of their investment in certified Canadian movies.
01:06:40
Speaker
So for a movie to be certified Canadian, it had to be at least 75 minutes long. It had to have at least one Canadian producer. Two thirds of the major cast and crew had to be Canadian citizens.
01:06:56
Speaker
And 75% of the production and post-production had to take place in Canada. This had some of ah some of the footage was shot in Wisconsin, but 75% of it had to be in Canada.
01:07:11
Speaker
So what did this tax credit do? How does this work? i'm I'm not a big money guy, but the best I was able to piece together ah is let's say you made $100,000 in income this year. You're doing great. and let's say income tax is 30%.
01:07:29
Speaker
What you could do is instead of paying your 30% income tax, you take your $100,000 before you pay income taxes and you invest it in ah a movie. You put all $100,000 into a movie Now, let's say this movie, it doesn't even make money.
01:07:45
Speaker
You only get $80,000 back from your $100,000. You lost $20,000. But you get to keep all of that. Whereas if you had just hung on to your $100,000, you would only have $70,000 because you would have paid $30,000 in taxes.
01:08:02
Speaker
So with this system in place, you could make money investing in a film, even if the movie lost money. it You're sort of playing with house money a little bit.
01:08:13
Speaker
The impacts of this were pretty quick. In 1974, there were only three feature length films made in Canada. Just five years later, in 1979, five years into this tax shelter scheme, there were 77.
01:08:31
Speaker
Now, unfortunately, a lot of the films that came out during this era were not very good. And many Canadians felt that this was a tax dodge for rich guys that mostly resulted in movies that felt like cheap knockoffs of American films rather than something uniquely Canadian.
01:08:48
Speaker
By 1982, they changed the tax regulations and the loophole was tightened back up. Hmm.
01:08:57
Speaker
This is not to say that this was a wasted effort on the part of the Canadian government. This move basically built the foundation of the film industry as we know it today in Canada. Going from three films a year to 77 required a massive increase in manpower and infrastructure and equipment that became the foundation of the modern Canadian film and television industry.
01:09:19
Speaker
Whenever you see a CW show that was filmed in Vancouver or a romantic comedy that takes place in New York, but was actually filmed in Toronto. This is all because of the foundation that was built with these Canadian tax shelters.
01:09:35
Speaker
And that's many films. Actually, can I add a few anecdotes that I've learned from David Cronenberg films? Yes, yes, because he was a big beneficiary. Yes, so he was a huge beneficiary of this. So the first one is his first movie, Shivers, he did this with.
01:09:51
Speaker
And yeah do either are either of you familiar with the film Shivers? Is that the Maryland Chambers one? No. It might just be called Shiver. That was Rabid. Yes, yes. um This was the one before that.
01:10:03
Speaker
So that film is about ah people who pass a parasitic bug between them that eats their liver or kidney and replaces it and turns them into a sexual deviant, like a sex zombie, more or less. It's pretty disturbing. It's pretty good. I really like it quite a bit. But a politician saw it.
01:10:23
Speaker
And was just like, our money, he like put out an ad or had like a big thing. it was like, our money went to make this disgusting film. And it literally got David k Cronenberg evicted from his apartment.
01:10:36
Speaker
That's a fun little story. The other one was, is I was, i just like a weekend or two ago was watching ah some new commentary tracks I got from Scanners and The Brood.
01:10:47
Speaker
fun well David Cronenberg films and they both mentioned that ah at the end of the year, what would happen in the Canadian system is someone would be like around like October, November, people would be shit, we need to make like some movies for some tax write-offs. So what do we have?
01:11:02
Speaker
and The reason Scanners was made more or less is because David k Cronenberg had been successful with this as someone approached him and Scanners was not finished. They're like, they like do you have anything? He's like, well, I have Scanners. it's I don't have an ending for it yet. They're like doesn't matter. Let's just begin.
01:11:17
Speaker
Cause Sanners is the one that he very famously began without a script and was writing it in between. ah Michael Ironsides was originally only supposed to be working for a day and then became like the villain in the film.
01:11:31
Speaker
And so he he got like a day rate as opposed to like the money he should have gotten, which is crazy. But um he's still like, that's what got, even he said it's like, that's what got him acting. Like this was big for him. So it's like in many ways it was good.
01:11:46
Speaker
ah But that's the reason why a lot of David Cronenberg's early films take place during the winter because they started filming in November for tax purposes. it's amazing So there you go.
01:12:00
Speaker
All right. What a fun detail. Thank you for contributing to mini film school. Do you guys want to play a game? Absolutely. yeah We're going to play a little. This guy played that guy.
01:12:21
Speaker
This guy played that guy. Yeah! This guy played that guy. This guy played that guy. In a fair...
01:12:40
Speaker
That's right. We're playing a little, this guy played that guy with Sonia Smits, who played Mrs. Lind, the school teacher. I believe one of the only actors in this movie to go on to have any sort of career, ah but not much of one.
01:12:57
Speaker
Uh, but I've got nine of her films here. What I'm going to do is I'm going to give you the title and a brief plot description and three characters from the film. want you to tell me which one was played by Sonia Smith.
01:13:12
Speaker
This is a buzz in game. You'll buzz in by saying your own name. And if you get it wrong, your opponent will have the chance to steal. do you have any questions? no No, I'm good. All right. Question number one, a different loyalty.
01:13:28
Speaker
British war reporter Leo and American journalist Sally meet on assignment in Beirut. When Leo disappears, Sally begins to uncover his secret life, which leads to her heading behind the Iron Curtain.
01:13:45
Speaker
Did Sonia Smits play Sally Caulfield, Jen Tyler, or Faye Toland? Greg. Greg?
01:13:57
Speaker
Faye Toland. That's correct. Wow. Nice. Question number two. Loose ends, also known as Screwball Academy.
01:14:10
Speaker
Okay. Sounds great already. Yeah. A film crew arrives at a beach resort where they're going to shoot a movie, but they run afoul of some troublesome teens.
01:14:25
Speaker
Did Sonia Smith's play Carla? Lita Lada or Liberty Jean?
01:14:36
Speaker
Angela. Angela? Lita Lada.
01:14:43
Speaker
I'm sorry she didn't play Lita Lada. Greg, can you steal? Is it Liberty Jean? I'm sorry that one was Carla. ah Question number three.
01:14:57
Speaker
The Diviners.
01:15:00
Speaker
As the situation with her rebellious daughter continues to escalate, Morag looks back on her life to understand how things came to this. Hmm. Did Sonia Smits play pregnant wife, Mrs. Pearl, or Morag?
01:15:21
Speaker
Greg. Greg? Pregnant wife.
01:15:27
Speaker
I'm sorry she didn't play pregnant wife. I had to try. no yeah and Absolutely. ah Angela. Angela?
01:15:37
Speaker
The second option, please. Mrs. Pearl? Yes, Mrs. Pearl.
01:15:44
Speaker
I'm sorry she played Morag. She had the lead in that one. wow Good for her. yeah yeah telling you, she had she had some kind of career. Question number four. Tech War Tech Lords. Ooh.
01:15:59
Speaker
A virus, which is not only infecting computer software, but also human beings, is activated in the global computer network. Jake Cardigan must do everything he can to stop it, while also dealing with his former wife's new husband trying to adopt his son. lot going on.
01:16:21
Speaker
Did Sonia Smits play Beth Kittredge? Kate Cardigan or Cowgirl? oh Greg. Greg?
01:16:32
Speaker
Kate Cardigan.
01:16:35
Speaker
That's correct. That's right, Angela. There's plenty of game left to play. Don't be distraught. Is Cowgirl a real character in that movie? Yeah, there was someone credited as Cowgirl.
01:16:48
Speaker
Good for them.
01:16:51
Speaker
Question number five. Mom's on strike. A working woman stops running the household in order to make her husband and three children appreciate her.
01:17:03
Speaker
Did Sonia Smits play Pam Harris, Dr. Goldenberg, or First Lady?
01:17:16
Speaker
ah Greg. oh Angela, I think I heard you coming in first. Dr. Goldenberg.
01:17:24
Speaker
um I'm sorry, Angela. She didn't play Dr. Goldenberg. Was it Greg or Steele? Was the First Lady? Yes, she played the First Lady. Good for her. She's got the chops.
01:17:37
Speaker
Yeah. She's commanding that way, like a teacher. Exactly.
01:17:43
Speaker
Question number six. That's my baby. Louis is desperate to have a baby, but his partner, Suzanne, only wants to nurture her career.
01:17:55
Speaker
He convinces her that if she handles the pregnancy and birth, he'll take it from there. But it turns out it's going to be a lot more complicated. Yeah.
01:18:07
Speaker
Did Sonia Smits play Suzanne, Karen, or Mother at the Zoo? what ah Greg.
01:18:19
Speaker
Greg. Suzanne.
01:18:22
Speaker
That's correct. is Have you seen that? No, I'm just going with my guts is basically what what I do every show and it works out well enough.
01:18:34
Speaker
There are guessing games. yeah so
01:18:39
Speaker
Question number seven. How to deal with A teenage girl learns to cope with her parents' divorce, her sister's wedding, her best friend's pregnancy, and the attentions of her first serious boyfriend.
01:18:54
Speaker
Wow.
01:18:57
Speaker
Did Sonia Smits play Carol Worsher?
01:19:02
Speaker
Grandma Hallie? Or Ginny Tabor?
01:19:10
Speaker
Angela. Angela? Ginny Tabor. Yeah.
01:19:16
Speaker
I'm sorry. She wasn't Ginny Tabor. Angela, I'm so sorry. Was there, there, it was like a grandma in there or something. Grandma Hallie. Yeah. Let's say that.
01:19:31
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry. She played Carol Worsher. Worsher. Yeah. Washer with an, an R in the middle as well. Yep. ah The teenage girl played by a young Mandy Moore.
01:19:43
Speaker
Good for Mandy.
01:19:46
Speaker
Question number eight. Spencer, Pale Kings and Princes.
01:19:54
Speaker
When a shrink's former patient turns up dead, she and Spencer investigate, only to cross swords with a small-town cocaine smuggler.
01:20:07
Speaker
Did Sonya Smiths play Overcoat Cop?
01:20:12
Speaker
Kingsley or Carolyn Rogers?
01:20:19
Speaker
Greg. Greg? Carolyn Rogers.
01:20:24
Speaker
You've got it, Greg. Nice. She could be a Carolyn Rogers, I feel like. Oh, absolutely. That's well within her range.
01:20:34
Speaker
Question number nine.
01:20:38
Speaker
I'm really rooting for you, Angela. ah Thank you. I'm going to make a comeback of sorts. Untold Story. a docudrama about the suffragists of Newfoundland and the 30-year struggle by the women of Newfoundland to win the right to vote.
01:20:58
Speaker
Did Sonia Smits play Fanny McNeil?
01:21:05
Speaker
Armine Nutting Gosling?
01:21:09
Speaker
Or narrator?
01:21:15
Speaker
Angela. Angela? Fanny McNeil.
01:21:22
Speaker
No, I'm sorry. She didn't play Fanny McNeil, Angela. So what was this what was the second one again? Armine Nutting Gosling? Well, I want to say Armine Nutting Gosling.
01:21:35
Speaker
I feel like her voice is particularly nice. so I'm going to say narrator.
01:21:42
Speaker
You're correct, Greg. Six big points. That's crazy for me. That's incredible. You know, you you ran into a powerhouse tonight, Angela. I have apologize. No, no. i This is how it should be.
01:21:58
Speaker
There was one time when Greg run the table, but unfortunately we ended up losing that episode. That was when we did Ghoulies 3 the first time. So it's fine. only perfect game. see the The good news is is I'm indifferent to winning. So the fact that that was lost is what it is.
01:22:14
Speaker
You see what I mean, Angelo? He doesn't even appreciate that he won. Look at him. I mean, it's cool. Don't get me wrong. you You know, I'm going to forget it in 45 minutes, but that's fine. I forget a lot of things in 45 minutes.
Awards Segment and Future Teasers
01:22:27
Speaker
Uh-oh, it's the Batty Awards.
01:22:36
Speaker
you're messing with the Batty Awards. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards.
01:22:47
Speaker
Now you're messing with the Batty Awards.
01:22:52
Speaker
Congratulations to all the nominees.
01:22:58
Speaker
That's right. Congratulations to all our nominees. It's the Batty Awards. I think we're all winners tonight, Greg, but why don't you tell us who your actual winner is? Okay. So I considered maybe starting a series of awards similar to what ah Anna has done, which is the ah this actor has appeared in a David Cronenberg production.
01:23:24
Speaker
But I don't know how many people we will run into because it's like it's either going to be big celebrities later on or just people like ah so Sandy, know ah Sonia Smits, who played Bianca Oblivion in Videodrome, which is so this is what happened. Like she said something to him and I was like, I know that voice.
01:23:46
Speaker
And it is because there's like a line in Videodrome where have I ever seen Videodrome? A long time. Yeah. So ah whoever the main James Woods is like trying to hear from her father and he's like, can I talk to him? And she's like, my father's preferred firm of discourse is the monologue.
01:24:06
Speaker
ah ah And so just like her delivery on that, just like has read, has just like written itself into my brain. So she said something and i was like, I know this person for some reason. And then I looked it up as like, oh, Videodrome. How about that?
01:24:20
Speaker
But my actual award, is going to, and this is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. it' So it's during the skinny dipping scene. What we've mentioned about the skinny dipping scene is the skinny dipping scene is one person getting nude and going, hey, you want to go skinny dipping? and then the dude going, no, I'm tired.
01:24:41
Speaker
and then turning, it cuts to her, and when we cut back, there's extremely loud rock music blaring. And it is determined, because you can't see it in this shot, but it is determined later that he has his face directly in front of the radio that is playing. And it's just like, how...
01:24:59
Speaker
What is any of this? How did any of this happen? But of course he needs the loud music so he can't hurt hear her scream because she's one of the few people who screams. He can't go skinny dipping with her because then he would die. But it's just like, it's so perplexing and bizarre. You want to go skinny dipping? Nah, I'm just going to sleep.
01:25:16
Speaker
da da da da It's like, what is happening in this film? Really flabbergasting. Really a delight. Loved it. Five stars. Fantastic award, Greg.
01:25:30
Speaker
amazing I'm going to give my baddie award to my favorite line, a line that told, told an entire story in a single line, o which is, uh, when Jamie is, goes to the, uh, trial a log pit. The first time that we see him, the titular pit.
01:25:48
Speaker
Yeah. And he says, uh, to the trial logs in the pit. he's He's trying to get make sure that they remember him. He's like, oh, it's me, the the kid from the other day.
01:25:59
Speaker
I'm the one with the terrarium at home. Yeah. He instantly tells you that the last time he was here and he saw a pit full of monsters, he told them about his terrarium.
01:26:14
Speaker
And now that he's back, he's like, I'm sure they meet a bunch of kids, but I bet none of them have terrariums. o right We talked about the terrarium for hours.
01:26:26
Speaker
Just a whole story in that one line. I loved it and Angela, do you have a Batty Award? I do. I'd like to present my Batty Award to Sammy Snyder's sammy snyders hair.
01:26:42
Speaker
is nine unmovable, unshakable hairdo. it means I feel like that's part of what made him so scary and c creepy to me when I watched this over and over many years ago. His bizarre hairstyle that never changes. It's like, listeners, it's like a helmet.
01:27:06
Speaker
Yeah, he's got like a platinum blonde coconut cut. so And it never moves. Even when he's running, I specifically tried to like find it moving. Maybe there's one scene where one bang hair gets slightly out of place, but it's just, it's just such a seventies do. i know this is 1981, but really good, good hair. Yeah. Hairspray.
01:27:36
Speaker
Hairspray use. It really helped give him an iconic look along with his distinctive silhouette in profile. Yeah. you know It really made him look like, oh, this is a little... No wonder our other kids don't like him. This kid is plainly not cool.
01:27:54
Speaker
And very off-putting and unpleasant to be around. And it suited him. Yeah. Angela, you've been very pleasant to be around. It's been so great to have you here this week. It's so great.
01:28:06
Speaker
been so wonderful being here with you too promise me you'll come back promise me you've got more heaters like the pit in your back pocket i do yes now we're talking
01:28:20
Speaker
do you have anything to plug do you have anything going on Oh, I'm playing music a lot. And most these days, I'm mostly playing in my friend Frankie Sunswept's band.
01:28:36
Speaker
It's called Frankie Sunswept and the Sliver Moons. Nice. And I sing my keyboards. Yeah, it's really fun. That's awesome. Listeners, if you see this, if you're in the New York area, keep an eye out for Frankie Sunswept and the Silver Moons. You're going a fabulous time. Tell them Chris sent you.
01:28:55
Speaker
yeah Angela will be excited, I'm sure. No. Well, listeners, ah you know what I'm going to do. If you've listened to the end of the show before, you know that I am going to plug us really quick.
01:29:13
Speaker
ah You got your phone in your hands. Give us five stars. Angela, are you going to listen this episode when it comes out? Of course. Give us that five stars when you do.
01:29:24
Speaker
and will. Yes, another five on the board, listeners. we're Join the wave. It's sweeping the nation. ah You can also find us on Instagram and blue sky. We've got a sub stack now where we've been posting writing that we've been doing about movies that we haven't covered. if you want to hear more from us, you can also join our discord where we're watching movies all the time.
01:29:51
Speaker
ah Just a ton of fun stuff. Check out our link tree and ah come back next week when we're going to have Returning guest, one of our favorites, Shelley Walston is going to be coming back. We're going be talking about the 80s guilty pleasure, Weird Science. Yeah.
01:30:10
Speaker
Nice. Excited to see how that one has aged. I imagine problematically. Probably. From what I recall. it
01:30:21
Speaker
But I'm excited to find out and I'm excited for you to be there, listeners. So join us next week. and until then, be good and goodbye.
01:30:33
Speaker
Goodbye.
01:30:40
Speaker
We all were.