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Interview with Matt and Nina from CEP and Medi UK about compression.
84 Plays5 years ago
In todays podcast we are talking about compression!
Joining us we have Matt who is Brand Manager for UK and Ireland from CEP.
CEP is the sports brand of Medi who are headquartered in Bayreuth, Germany.
Also joining us is Nina Linnitt who has been a Registered Nurse for 30 years and has specialised in lymphoedema management since 1994. She has been Clinical manager with Medi UK Ltd for 10 years.
Please comment on our social channels and ask questions to CEP about anything they have spoke about with us on this episode.
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Transcript
Introduction to Compression with Matt and Nina
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the UK sports chat podcast. In today's episode we are talking all about compression. Joining us we have Matt who is brand manager for UK and Ireland from CEP. CEP is the sports brand of Medi who are headquartered in Germany. CEP offers a collection of shorts, tights, shirts, short socks, knee socks and sleeves for running, biking, triathlon, football and a whole host of
00:00:30
Speaker
Nina Linnet has been a registered nurse for 30 years and has specialised in lymphedema management since 1994. Nina has been clinical manager with Medi UK Limited for 10 years, primarily focusing on evidence-based medicine for the best outcomes for patients with lymphedema.
00:00:50
Speaker
Nina was involved in the British Lymphology Society since 1994 and actively so between 2011 and 2015 when she was Vice Chair and Chair of the Society. Hello to you both, Matt and Nina. Morning, Jay. Hi. Hello, Beau. Thank you both for joining us. Thank you for having us.
CEP's Legacy and Compression Benefits
00:01:13
Speaker
So tell us about CEP and MEDI, please.
00:01:20
Speaker
Okay, well Medi is a global based company out of by right in Germany that specializes in manufacturing medical aids and treats patients in the medical world and CEP is a brand of Medi that's specifically designed for the sports market and takes all its history, knowledge and background from the research and development that Medi has done for the past 70 years or most
00:01:49
Speaker
and obviously a global leader in the medical world, that's a pretty experienced amount of knowledge that we can take to the sport and fitness markets. Great. Tell us about CEP as well then. That makes total sense for a medical brand like Medi to have compression garments. If I think back to the operations that I've had, you turn up at a hospital, you get given a gown with some ties on the back.
00:02:17
Speaker
some fetching paper pants to put on, and usually some socks, some kind of compression wear, and the reason you'll be given from the nurses that that's to stop you getting blood clots while you're laying in bed. So yeah, that makes sense for it to come from a company like Medi. So what is compression? Tell us, what exactly is it?
00:02:45
Speaker
So compression is required exactly, as you say, to keep the blood flow healthy and active, especially when you're inactive in a hospital environment or a surgical environment. And you do need a very defined, graduated compression so that you're not creating a tourniquet in any area.
00:03:14
Speaker
which would create a backflow. That kind of extends into the world of medicine as well, where you have people that have
00:03:24
Speaker
venous disease, varicose veins, for instance, when you're standing up, the pressure in your ankle is far greater than when you're laying down. And venous disease can develop over time with familial disease or with having a DVT or having a wound on your leg.
Enhancing Sports Performance and Recovery
00:03:50
Speaker
It can damage the venous valves.
00:03:52
Speaker
and so therefore compression is required to keep that Venus return active and prevent further complications down the line.
00:04:06
Speaker
That's a very, excuse my non-medical vocabulary. It's a very medicalised answer for that. Why does that transfer into the sporting world and for people who are running triathlon? In relation to the medical technology, I think the key elements for compression are increased circulation, obviously, stabilisation,
00:04:36
Speaker
recovery and it's all about taking oxygenated blood back to muscles to effectively feed muscles so that you can exercise for longer and recover more quickly because the venous system and the arterial system take blood away from the heart and return blood to the heart
00:04:54
Speaker
to ensure that you oxygenate muscles, which is actually what's required to exercise, to run through everyday life. So effectively what compression does, it helps the body do what it does naturally in a more efficient way. So that's the important part and Nina mentioned is having correct profiling, correct product that fits properly, but also product that's manufactured correctly
Proper Use and Measurement of Compression
00:05:21
Speaker
to ensure that it's graduated compression that is actually aiding the body do what it does naturally. So it's increasing oxygenated blood to the muscles and increasing that flow and obviously then taking deoxygenated
00:05:39
Speaker
blood back away from the muscle to get back to the heart to re-oxygenate. The closest thing that we talk to people about in relation that most people will understand this is when you jump on an aeroplane and people talk about DVT and ensuring that you pump your calves, you move your foot up and down and what you're doing there is actually
00:06:04
Speaker
accelerate in the way that blood flows in your lower limbs back to your heart. So the hardest thing to do with blood to get that re-oxygenation to happen is to fight gravity. So compression works in the same way as, and in layman's terms, again, when you water the garden, if you don't have one of these special guns on the end of the hose, you actually squeeze the end of the hose pipe. And what you're doing is actually compressing that to increase the pressure through the end of the hose pipe.
00:06:34
Speaker
and compression works in a very similar way as long as it's true compression in terms of graduated and applying the right pressure at the right stages of each product.
00:06:46
Speaker
Okay. So just talk to us more then about what is that true compression then? And what does that mean to the sports people here? Compression is, I guess what we're here to do today is to help people understand more about compression and how they can use that within their toolbox for running. And compression isn't like a light switch where you put it on and you can forget about stretching. You can forget about warming up. You can forget about hydration. It's part of a toolbox.
00:07:16
Speaker
So ultimately, it's about measuring your limbs where you want the compression to have an effect so that you're actually sized properly. Because Nia mentioned earlier as well that if something's too tight, you can actually create a tourniquet which can slow down Venus return and have an adverse effect.
00:07:38
Speaker
So we measure people at various different areas above the ankle, on the calf, midpoint of the thigh to ensure that there's graduated pressure and correct pressure, which is measured in milligrams of mercury, to ensure that you're aiding that venous flow in the right direction.
Compression for Recovery and Sports
00:07:58
Speaker
Okay. So it seems that measurement is really important. Yeah. I think there's lots of brands and lots of products in the market that use the word compression, but the key to getting true compression is that you are measured correctly because you can get a cyclist who's very, very lean, very, very strong Venus system. And you see the guy cycling the Tour de France.
00:08:24
Speaker
huge veins popping out of the calves and thigh muscles. You know, they're the types of guys that have got very, very strong veins, but very, very slim legs. But then you might have a sprint cyclist on the track who's very, very different. They could be the same height. They could have the same leg length, but they need different thickness or circumference of product to ensure they get correct pressure. At the very, very elite end of sport,
00:08:52
Speaker
you know, these guys, you know, in compression is for, for all levels, because we all know about Dom's and you know, you train one day or you, you sign up to do a marathon and you do your first run or you sign up to do a sportive and you do your first bike ride the day or the day after.
00:09:08
Speaker
wow, we become very, very stiff and it hurts. So again, in recovery profile of compression, that can aid you in terms of using the compression to help flush out the lymphatic system and the lactic acid that builds up and aids recovery. And that's why it's important to ensure that when you look at compression, that you look at recovery products for recovery or active products for active activity.
00:09:35
Speaker
So what's the difference between those two then? In the sports category, in the sports world, there's a different profile. So we would measure a different point on the leg for a recovery product to active running product. Because as Nina mentioned, when you're lying down or standing up, there's different levels of pressure.
00:09:58
Speaker
So there's different levels of milligrams of mercury required based on inactive recovery, sitting or traveling versus actively
Clinical Guidance and Compression Use
00:10:07
Speaker
running. And you will create an element of calf pump or muscle pump when you're running or exercising, and therefore there's a different profile required for active compression. From a medical perspective, I know that there's, you know, within
00:10:25
Speaker
people who exercise, there are people who who may have clinical diagnosis of certain ailments such as varicose veins, etc. And Nina may be able to talk about more in terms of different levels of compression in and that's grading into different classes. And that's very important as well that I know looking at and talking to you via different social channels, there's a lot of people who
00:10:53
Speaker
talk about varicose veins and various other things. And it's very important to get clinical diagnosis that if you are suffering with any issues in that area, that you get diagnosed properly. And then if you're using compression, you can then ensure that the compression that you're using is correct for you because, you know, bringing Nina in, there is a disadvantage to having ill-fitting compression.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Different stages of disease need different strengths of millimetres of mercury.
00:11:29
Speaker
Okay. So what about, so you mentioned that this is for all levels. So what about for those people out there now who don't have any kind of varicose veins, don't have any of these kinds of diseases? Is it for everyone at all levels? Is it for that person who's just starting off on their first 5K? Or is this targeted for somebody more like your serious cyclist and your long distance runners who should be
00:11:56
Speaker
having compression whether it be active or recovery as part of their toolbox in your opinions? I think compression is for everybody effectively because whether you're a new starter or a seasoned runner or a seasoned cyclist there's definite benefits of re-oxygenating your muscles to recover for your next ride and I think lots of people get into running and really really love it from a health and well-being
00:12:26
Speaker
perspective, you look at what park run do with families, running and cycling and physical activity is a huge benefit across everybody's lifestyle, everybody's fitter, everybody's healthier.
00:12:40
Speaker
Ultimately, compression is a day-to-day product that can help you enjoy that. If you stood on your feet all day in work and you've trained in the morning and you want to train again in the afternoon or the next day, compression from a recovery element can help you. And where compression starts, people who have stood on their feet all day
00:13:07
Speaker
The first thing they do when they get home is they kick their shoes off and say, wow, my feet are aching. And that's part of pooling. It's blood pooling where your blood is fighting the gravity to get away. And that's why your feet swell on aeroplanes or they swell when you're on your feet all day.
00:13:26
Speaker
you know, more active people, there's definitely benefits. But it's definitely part of a toolbox. And it's not just a one, one fix. So it goes in line with your recovery, your stretching, your nutrition, your hydration, ice baths, all that side of things that, you know, definitely I know if if I if I signed up for a marathon or a sport, even not done anything in a while, two days after that first ride, I'm going to be really, really stiff and
00:13:55
Speaker
walking around as if I've been riding on a horse for 30 days on the trot. We all know what Dom's feels like. It's not nice. And using true compression and compression that is the right profile is definitely of benefit to everybody. Okay. So if you're using the... I'm just trying to differentiate between the two different products. If I'm using the active products,
00:14:22
Speaker
Should that be helping me have less doms after? It will do because there's an element of increasing blood flow whilst exercising so effectively that you're doing it, you're increasing and aiding what your body does naturally while you're running. And then alternatively, so if you think about driving to a race or driving to an event,
00:14:51
Speaker
it's pre-covery as well as recovery. So there's an element of you can use your recovery product on the way to an event.
00:14:58
Speaker
change into your active socks, which have other benefits on top of the compression in terms of blister free, you know, comfort, and various other things. But then after your race, you know, you take your race socks off, if you if you're then jumping back in a car, or walking home, you know, the recovery product can almost help you straight away. And there's there's an also
00:15:25
Speaker
We also recommend that you don't overwear product as well because the body can adapt to wearing compression for too long. And what we say is optimal time is two to four hours after a race and then take it off because
00:15:42
Speaker
You don't want your body to become almost reliant on that and also it can adapt to reducing the effects if it's worn for too long because naturally your body's venous system will let the blood travel around the body. So there is obviously that ability to use compression and then take compression off and not overuse it as well.
Compression Myths and Misunderstandings
00:16:10
Speaker
That is reflected in some of the comments that we've seen when you, when you were hosting, co-hosting the UK run chat. The market seems to be that people, people either love it and they, and they swear by it and they wear it all the time or, or they're, or they're very skeptical. Why do you think that is?
00:16:34
Speaker
I think there's a mixed message in the market and lots of products in the market use compression and maybe overuse the word compression, I think. And that's key to what we discussed earlier, is understanding the difference between a compression run type that may use the word compression, but is tight Lycra based on a small, medium, large or extra large in sizing.
00:16:58
Speaker
versus a true compression garment, which you've been measured for for a specific targeted compression in a specific area. And again, it's using the compression properly and understanding when to wear a recovery product versus an active product. A pair of running tights that say they're compression running tights should potentially not be worn as a recovery item.
00:17:25
Speaker
somebody who's never had compression before then, when do they start wearing a compression garment? What's the trigger? When would they and why would they?
00:17:36
Speaker
Well, I think ultimately, I think when somebody starts running or starts cycling, you know, if we talk about running, because, you know, the first thing they go in and buy is a pair of running shoes, because that's the ultimate item that you need. The next most important item really is your socks, so that you're blister free, you've got comfortable fit within your shoes.
00:17:58
Speaker
not everybody wears long socks and CEP specifically the compression element of the sock starts in the midsole and that's where compression really should start because your feet have a venous structure in them as well and ultimately that's the next item that people should be considering so it's ultimate fit performance recovery and blister free technology that people to get the perfect fit for the shoe
00:18:28
Speaker
is really important. So realistically, from day one, it's a consideration. And then obviously, that goes into what you wear and what you eat or how you hydrate. So again, I go back to the point, it's part of a toolbox of understanding how all these elements can work together. We've mentioned about the specific measurements a couple of times now. So how do people go about that?
00:19:01
Speaker
If I talk about the difference between a recovery sock measurement versus an active running sock, we would take a measurement of just two fingers above the ankle bone around the ankle of the circumference for a recovery sock, and then for a run sock, we'd take a measurement at the midpoint, the widest point of the calf.
00:19:24
Speaker
That then reflects into a size category, which will tell you what size of product is required to give you optimal compression for each of those products effectively. Okay. So is there, so I'm thinking about if I go into a retail store, is there some education that's need doing, you know, shops and stores and just with people who are, who are actually selling these products? Because I am done hard. I've never, I've never seen anybody having their, their calf measured in a store.
Medical Advice and Compression Measurement
00:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, there is. And I think in the sports world or sports apparel, there's no regulation in terms of how you're educated to measure for certain garments. Whereas in sports nutrition, there is because we ingest that product. And I think that using and understanding true compression should be a little bit like, okay, well, what am I going to eat and drink?
00:20:20
Speaker
Is that the right product? How is that going to affect my body when I eat that? And within that, the Food Standards Agency governs that sector. In the compression world, I think there should be an education in terms of stores and staff to actually advise people
00:20:42
Speaker
that if they are wearing a garment that can restrict blood flow and can have an adverse effect that these guys need to give and understand what true compression is and how that should be worn and used. In the medical world we have to do that with regards to Medi and that's how we want to help people understand that.
00:21:04
Speaker
from a CEP perspective, not everyone will buy CEP, but ultimately, when you buy any product, it's understanding if is that product fit for purpose and, you know, the Medi world and where Nina specialises is, that's vitally important because we cannot deliver product into the medical world and not, you know, give what's required in that market. And that's the mantra that we take across into the CEP world effectively.
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. And just to bring Nina back in, so there was, we had a question, didn't we, from a community member who had mentioned that they do stuff with varicose veins. So how would that work, Nina? Would they be looking at a CEP product or is it something more specific if somebody does have things like varicose veins and they're very sporty?
00:22:01
Speaker
I think if they have clinical diagnosis and they suffer, you know, they have problems linked to Tibericus veins, then they would be in a medical device, so a MediGarment for instance.
00:22:20
Speaker
which gives the correct profile for their condition, and it is compression, so they're safe to exercise in it. In fact, we always advise that
00:22:33
Speaker
even if you don't want to wear your garment on a daily basis, they should be wearing it when they exercise because that's the point where you develop your circulation is being kind of improved and so therefore you're going to get more fluid pushed into the lymphatic
00:22:54
Speaker
areas, you know, in the tissue spaces and so you need that medical compression then to get everything moving in the right direction. So it is just that there is always that question, well, you know, I've got
00:23:09
Speaker
this condition but I want to use CEP. CEP may well be okay for them for running in the short term but we talked earlier about the different levels of compression so if they need something that's very high
00:23:27
Speaker
in millimetres of mercury, CEP isn't going to give them that. So it's that balance of using something that they feel comfortable with but that is actually also giving them the medical treatment that they need. Can you explain what the milligrams of mercury and what all that means please for us?
00:23:48
Speaker
Yeah, because we've got this internal pressure in our ankle when we're standing, if it becomes very high, because say there's a pooling of blood, you need to have a good squeeze on the outside of the limb to push the fluid
00:24:11
Speaker
into the body back where it needs to be. So return in that circulation. And so the millimetres of mercury is a little bit like when you have your blood pressure taken and they pump it up, that's exerting a certain amount of squeeze on your arm. And that's the millimetres of mercury. So you can have in mild
00:24:34
Speaker
So if it's a very early diagnosis of venous disease, for instance, then you would have a low millimetres of mercury. So that squeeze would be around 20 millimetres of mercury. So it's a very light compression garment.
00:24:51
Speaker
Whereas if you've got very severe disease and you have lots of pain and maybe you're waiting for surgery, you would need much more than 20. You'd need maybe 35 to 40 millimeters of mercury.
00:25:07
Speaker
And yeah, so it's descriptive of the amount of squeeze that you need on your limb to correct the problem, the underlying disease.
Q&A: Compression in Sports and Recovery
00:25:18
Speaker
If I'm a regular runner or cyclist and I do have a diagnosis of some sort, who do I go to? Is that actually you or who would help you out?
00:25:32
Speaker
yeah well you need the diagnosis needs to come from the GP or a specialist really. Sorry my question is who would then recommend what SOC and you know isn't that something that a GP would do? Yeah hospital specialist or GP, practice nurse if there's a condition diagnosed and they're the people that tell you what kind of
00:25:57
Speaker
compression level is required. So we, we had some questions through Twitter from, from some of the community members. So I'm just going to fire those over. And if either of you want to just jump in on them. Um, so from app screen, underscore, underscore S crane, I'd be interested to know how important running with compression is to performance. Um, I do run with compression socks as I have circulation issues, but just wondered what the research says. Yeah. Yeah. I think, um,
00:26:26
Speaker
Ultimately, this links back to the research of over 65 to 70 years of treating vascular issues within the Medi world. I think compression is important, but again, it's important within the toolbooks. Serious amateur runners, and I think a lot of people get into new sports and they love them. It goes from once a week to three times a week to
00:26:52
Speaker
to seven days a week, to sometimes 14 times a week where they're training twice a day. So ultimately, increasing venous return and re-oxygenating your muscles both in active and recovery elements will definitely help you recover more quickly. Re-oxygenate your blood, which enables you to train longer for harder, but not withstanding that all other elements need to be taken into consideration. Good sleep,
00:27:21
Speaker
good hydration, good rest. You know, too much of everything is not good for you, but moderation and using the right tools within that toolbox. And that really, really can help. The next one was from a runner constant. After a run, is it better to take the compression socks off or keep them on for a while? Again, you know, using the right compression whilst running versus recovering,
00:27:50
Speaker
you know, whether you can get your socks off straight after the run is the big question how far you've run. But ultimately, yes, is to, if you want to recover and to, you know, recover well and recover at the optimum levels, if you like, whilst using compression, obviously drinking water, stretching, cup of tea, whatever is your recovery method, but compression can help with the right profile in terms of using recovery product for a period of time. And we say,
00:28:20
Speaker
normally two to four hours afterwards, put them on. If you're traveling in the car, it will help. If you're jumping on an aeroplane, you know, recovery profile product can help as well. So it's using it for a period of time afterwards and then take it off and then, you know, use it again the next day, pre and post race, pre-covery and recovery.
00:28:42
Speaker
Mel at TheRealMelheel asked, what is the best starter item to buy? I think you touched on this before. What's the best starter item to buy if you want to try it out before investing in a lot of different gear?
00:28:56
Speaker
Yeah, well, CEP, we offer a 30-day performance guarantee. So you can try any of our product for 30 days with a money-back guarantee. And I think the most important thing is when you start using a product is to ensure that it's comfortable, it fits well, and you like it. And one of the major concerns that most runners have is finding a product, a sock that doesn't give you blisters or creates blisters.
00:29:26
Speaker
We're very happy that we claim that there's blister-free running with our products. So any product from CEP in our sock range is definitely ideal for starting out, but finding that nice, comfortable fit with your running shoes is vitally important, and we do give a 30-day performance guarantee on that.
00:29:47
Speaker
I'm sure people don't know that. So to summarise the benefits then of the active products, the recovery products, just one more time for our listeners. What are they? The sort of top line benefits of compression is increased circulation, stabilisations for joints and muscles.
00:30:11
Speaker
and increased accelerated removal of metabolic waste, so recovery element or pre-covery element within the products. Okay. I don't know if there's been any studies done by Medi or anything like that, but is there a typical time or how much quicker will it help you recover?
00:30:32
Speaker
I guess that depends on how it's used within the toolbox so it depends on you know how you sleep how you hydrate and how you stretch as well again it's not a not a one trick pony if you like that you can put compression on and forget about everything else so it's how you integrate that into your
00:30:53
Speaker
your toolbox for training or running or cycling or fitness training. I don't think there's a test that can tell you how quickly it can help you because everybody's different in effect. But obviously, the sooner you can increase your Venus return, that means you're going to be recovering more quickly.
00:31:16
Speaker
Well, thank you very much to both of you for joining us. I think if anyone listening out there has got any more comments or other questions, then they'll be able to ask it through our social channels and that you'll be on hand to answer things through social media. And it'd be good to have you back on again to answer any specifics from people in the community.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:31:39
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:31:41
Speaker
help people understand how to use compression more efficiently, but understand how they should buy compression correctly as well to ensure that we'll take away the ambiguity of does compression work or doesn't it work? And we'd only be happy to answer and work with you guys to help the community understand and learn more. Brilliant. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us, Matt. Thank you, Nina. Thank you.