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🥤 "It is all about purpose" - Johanna Perret from RECUP on building a love brand
109 Plays1 year ago
Johanna Perret is Head of Brand + Relations at RECUP. She made her professional beginnings in media design, trend research and communication followed by an Masters in Eco-Social Design. Johanna had the chance – as the very first employee at RECUP – to lead and develop a lovebrand for almost 7 years and to contribute to the creation of a more sustainable future and a value-creating working environment.
So, are you curious to make your companies marketing ready for the future? Then I have the some simple and exciting options for you:
First, this is exactly what I do for my clients - I help them build their future strategies with workshops and sparring sessions.
I also have a very simple entry offer for founders and aspiring marketing experts: The Simple & Sustainable Marketing Academy, with a ridiculously cheap entry ticket price, because I love sharing what I have learned.
And if you enjoy reading: Check out my newsletter where I write about marketing, strategies and sustainability available every two weeks in the MarketingFutures newsletter.
About Florian Schleicher: I'm a marketing strategist - over the last 15 years I've led and helped shape marketing at McDonald's, Greenpeace and Too Good To Go. Now I help forward-thinking companies take their marketing to the next level.
With FutureS, the Impact Marketing Studio, I help brands achieve their goals and sustainable growth. All without the usual hustle.
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Transcript
The Role of Purpose in Branding
00:00:00
Speaker
First, a love brand for me personally is a brand not only positioning an idea, but making it tangable and feelable, bringing a emotional connection between a product or much more an idea and focusing on eco-social design for me. It's really about the purpose. I think it's really important that we move away from consumer brands, aiming at selling stuff to brands that are able to also
00:00:29
Speaker
transport a message for change and brands and companies that are aiming to create something good and more sustainable than we have right now.
00:00:40
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to Future Strategies. I'm your host, Florian Scheicher. You want your marketing to achieve goals and sustainable growth? You have come to the right place. In this podcast, I talk with marketing experts and share my own know-how on how to bring your marketing to the next level with a lot of inspiration and learnings, all without the usual hustle. So let's jump right into it.
00:01:09
Speaker
Welcome to another great conversation. And after the previous episodes where we focused a lot on sustainability basics, we're now going back into the depths of brands again.
Meet Johanna Perret: Brand Strategy at RECAP
00:01:20
Speaker
So today I talk with Johanna Perret. She's head of brand and relations at RECAP. She made her professional beginnings in media design, trend research,
00:01:30
Speaker
and communication followed by a master's in eco-social design. Johanna had the chance as the very first employee at ReCUB to lead and develop a love brand for almost seven years now and to contribute to the creation of a more sustainable future and a value-creating working environment. Welcome to Future Strategies, Johanna. Thanks for having me. So can you explain a little bit for our listeners what you do in your role as head of brand and relations?
00:02:00
Speaker
This is a very big question, to be honest, because my role is shifting constantly since the seven years that we come. At the moment, for example, I'm also focusing a lot on change management, which doesn't come naturally a position of a head of brand and relations, but we try to approach branding and also brand leadership in a very holistic way. And so it's also important for us to create change and transformation processes
00:02:30
Speaker
very close to our core, which is the brand. And in daily life, at the moment, I'm focusing on brand strategy and brand management, and my team is also working on public relations and public affairs. Nice. How big is your team at the moment?
00:02:46
Speaker
At the moment, it's a really small task force. We are five in my direct team, but also working really close together with our marketing department with around about 15 people say we are very well connected throughout the whole company. And so because brand and marketing, it's usually associated to be the same or very close. What's the distinction between those two and where do you overlap or where do you have like your own areas?
Brand vs Marketing: Finding the Balance
00:03:16
Speaker
To be honest, this was a experiment we decided on doing because in the beginning it was one team clearly. And we also focused much more on brand building and brand communication because we knew there's not a market for reusable systems yet.
00:03:36
Speaker
We want to start one and we also wanted to create a love brand. That's why we didn't put so much focus on performance marketing or online marketing in the beginning, but on relation work and also communication. And then we sensed when the market started moving that it's a good time to put
00:03:56
Speaker
more focus on performance marketing on B2B marketing. I don't have a professional background in marketing. I decided to hand over. It was a really, really smart move. I tried to somehow get rid of myself in the company, but we also said that for us, it's still really important to secure the focus on branding because for us, it really is the element connecting our purpose, our vision with our values.
00:04:25
Speaker
securing that we always think purpose first. And we were a bit afraid that when we now step up the game, move into scaling up the company, the marketing team, the marketing actions, it's hard to balance and find the time and priority for relation work, for communication, and especially for branding. So that's why we started this little experiment and
00:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, divided the topic into two departments. Very interesting. I already heard some things that I want to go a little bit deeper on, but before that, can you give for our listeners who don't know what recap and repo is, what you do, and how your journey from a market enabler now to a market leader progressed?
RECAP's Mission: Reducing Single-Use Waste
00:05:15
Speaker
Yes, basically recap and repo is a reusable system and we're focusing on the good to go and out of home gastronomy in Germany. So having a deposit system for water bottles and cans in Germany.
00:05:31
Speaker
We found it very simple to adapt this to, to go food. And we just celebrated seven years of recap this month. Nice. Happy birthday. Thank you so much. Our founders Fabian and Flor had the idea for this reusable system independently of each other. They didn't know each other back then during the studies because both were really bothered by the high amount of single use.
00:06:01
Speaker
cups in their universities. So they came up with the idea of putting the to-go cups where the customers need them, which is in the gastronomy. And they started a piloting phase in Rosenheim, a little town in Southern Germany.
00:06:18
Speaker
in November 2016. And this is also when I joined in thinking I will work on a two-month branding project. Seven years in. So two months, yeah, turned into seven years. Seven years in, the system grew a lot. We didn't know back then if there is a market and if we will succeed, but in this testing phase with 25, 26 partners in Rosenheim, we got really good feedback and then we launched in Munich.
00:06:48
Speaker
in May 2017 with 50 more partners. And from the beginning on, we tried to not create a small system in single towns, but to focus on creating a system that works for whole Germany so that it's also very easy and convenient for consumers who are traveling or want to use it in different towns.
00:07:11
Speaker
And today, Rickup is market leader. We have around 21,000 partners throughout whole Germany. And in the beginning, we focused a lot on smaller and individual gastronomy. So we had a lot of coffees already opting at sustainability. And today we also want a lot of bigger partners like Shell, IKEA, and Burger King. I saw that, especially the Burger King. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah.
00:07:41
Speaker
So big steps and still a lot to do in Germany. Let's go a little bit deeper on that, a lot to do. So why is it really important to have reusable cups or reusable packaging in general? I brought some shocking numbers if you want to hear them. Please go ahead. Alone in Germany, we have 13 billion disposable packages per year and this equals 830,000 tons of CO2 and
00:08:10
Speaker
190,000 tons of waste. So this is a really huge problem for product that lasts for maybe 10 to 15 minutes, depending on how quick you drink your coffee or eat your lunch, because it's really only made for this very short period of time. And clearly you could substitute it by more.
00:08:32
Speaker
circular way of approaching packaging. And then also the packaging, the single use packaging used in the industry is very often not easy to recycle because it's made out of paper and plastics. So mainly they go to not be recycled. 13 billion. So yeah, really hard to grasp it all. Like billions is such a huge number and
00:09:00
Speaker
I see it myself. We all know these images of hipsters running around with their... 10 years ago, it was a Starbucks cup. Now it's an independent coffee chain cup, and it has a very short lifespan, as you said.
00:09:17
Speaker
So yeah, I think that's a big problem you're tackling and also, of course, it played into your hands that the German government said there needs to be a solution for that problem and you're now working on it.
Becoming a Love Brand: Authenticity and Values
00:09:31
Speaker
Let's talk a little bit more because
00:09:34
Speaker
Obviously, you're providing a great solution, but as I mentioned in your intro, you also work for a love brand now. And I've had my fair share working for some of love brands out there, but I'm curious, what's a love brand for you? And how did you get this problem-solving solution to being a beloved brand for everybody?
00:09:56
Speaker
These are two very interesting questions. I think first a love brand for me personally is a brand not only positioning an idea, but making it tangable and feelable and bringing a emotional connection between a product or much more an idea and focusing on eco-social design for me. It's really about the purpose.
00:10:20
Speaker
I think it's really important that we move away from consumer brands, aiming at selling stuff to brands that are able to also
00:10:30
Speaker
transport a message for change and brands and companies that are aiming to create something good and more sustainable than we have right now. So that's my personal approach to love brands. Maybe not elastic, I'm going to take the question back home and reflect on it. How did you get there?
00:10:51
Speaker
How did we get, I hope we still are there. So in the beginning, we focused on a very small market niche of sustainability and people that want to use to go products, but still are open to a more sustainable solution. Back then, it was a very female niche target group.
00:11:17
Speaker
And we talked a lot to people, what's important to you. We did a lot of trend research, also focusing on the color, the way how the product is feeling, on language a lot. And of course, we also talked a lot to gastronomy, what this brand has to bring along to work in the context of a coffee. And then of course, this shifted radically, the bigger our partners got,
00:11:47
Speaker
And we still try to keep in contact with our partners. I think this is really important also in branding and doing marketing at the same time. And there's still a lot to improve in this process. I think you can always improve the process of talking to your customers and be close to their needs because convenience is Queen King key. I don't know how to name it because I think that's really crucial when it comes to scaling up a love brand.
00:12:16
Speaker
And I think the second thing which helped us a lot was trying to stay true to ourselves, putting the focus on the purpose and the vision and also the values and being always being very open about things we can do and we can't do to create communication on eye level in the direction of our customers, direct customers, but also in direction of the public and the consumers who are using our products in the end. Wow.
00:12:44
Speaker
It reminds me so much about my time at Too Good to Go, because we also started with a super small niche. And I think, especially if you're a young company.
00:12:53
Speaker
It's so good to focus on just a handful of people, get them to use the product, and then scale from there. Because I see with so many companies nowadays and startups going all in and saying, okay, we want to reach everybody. And of course, that's a super aspirational goal. But in the end, you need to start somewhere. So I really like that aspect.
00:13:14
Speaker
The other thing that I want to go a little bit deeper on is you mentioned the importance of balancing B2B and B2C because you're also working with two very different target audiences who have different problems also. So how was the beginning for you? Did you start with B2B or B2C? And how would you say your share is now in between those two communication channels?
Balancing B2B and B2C Communications
00:13:39
Speaker
I like your questions. They are always complex. Maybe you can also compare it to good to go since the business model is also similar. And we also had a lot of exchange between the two companies throughout the years. So in the very beginning, as I said, and I don't know if we did it on purpose or if it just happened, we focused a lot on B2C communication because we tried to get
00:14:08
Speaker
Like coming out of nowhere to be known by people. So in the beginning, we did a lot of personal brandings for our founders. We applied for tons of awards. And you also won a lot of awards. We also won a lot of awards. So we did a lot of PR, but we also made sure to talk to cities because we knew they have a lot of problems with the waste because the amount of waste is rising.
00:14:38
Speaker
It's hard to handle and we also knew they have marketing departments and we need influencers speaking out for us because we're too small. We also don't have any budget. So in the beginning, we really tried to focus on relations work to get multipliers on board and to bring the news out that there is a solution.
00:15:00
Speaker
And at the same time, we did it a lot of direct sales. So marketing and branding wasn't focusing so much on our direct target group, B2B target group, but sales was doing it. And our sales team back then really was hands on, on the streets, traveling from town to town, talking to gastronomy, building partnerships and relationships. And that's also one of our core values to get an estimate done under because we found it very helpful to have this
00:15:30
Speaker
eye level understanding and partnerships with our suppliers and the partners and also our growing social media crowd. So in the beginning, there was a lot of very open and very broad communication. And then as I shared before, we started to, and that's not my credit, that's the credit of the marketing department, to focus more on B2B
00:15:54
Speaker
marketing on, yes, online marketing, performance marketing. We've been to some fairs from the beginning on, but then this also got more attention. So throughout the years, we shifted our marketing effort from B2C
00:16:10
Speaker
to B2B methods and to be honest, it's still a very big mix of different channels. And this is also really important because I don't have to tell you, but you need so many touch points and especially in B2B marketing, it's even more and building relationships is even more important. So it's not an easy game. The market is speeding up and moving quickly. So we are trying to adapt, of course. Yeah.
00:16:38
Speaker
And I really liked also what you said about this togetherness aspect. And I read an interview with your founders where they said your main values are togetherness, transparency, heart and soul, and kawooms. How important are those for what you do with the brand? Because those are also values that work probably a lot internally. How much do you use them in your brand communication and what is kawooms?
00:17:08
Speaker
I start with, I start with explaining a bit more about KaVomz because I think it's important to understand how then we are applying the values to what we do. KaVomz, we didn't know that this is a word which is not existing when we were, when we've been brainstorming back then in different rounds and very participative. We had the feeling KaVomz is something very well known.
00:17:32
Speaker
meaning to for us to be open to change and to change something to be dynamic and lively. And then we found out that it's not in the burden. But we had the feeling that it's really expressing what we what we mean to approach challenges in an open and growth mindset way, and bringing energy to changing things and to transformation. And
00:17:57
Speaker
This is a very good example how our values help us navigate daily struggles within our team. But I think it also explains a lot how we try to communicate and act and be to the outside
Aligning Profit with Eco-Social Goals
00:18:15
Speaker
world. And I think it's really important to approach branding in a holistic view.
00:18:21
Speaker
not only focusing on the inside or the outside, but I think it's simply more authentic to combine both and to ensure an image that's trustworthy and where you have the feeling, I guess they practice what they preach.
00:18:37
Speaker
It feels very authentic, your communication. And I like that about it. Thanks. We try our best. So you mentioned a couple of times purpose and how important it is to have a good impact. And I think you're definitely part of so many great ideas out there nowadays. Some call it social impact companies that are really driving change and that are not anymore only focused on profit, but on also creating value for the planet and for people.
00:19:07
Speaker
And the other week I had a discussion with a fellow strategist and he basically said to me, I don't think that model is working. I don't think it works to align profit, people and planet. Profit is the only thing people go for in the end. And that's it. What's your take on that? My take would be, I would love to talk to this strategist. I think working in marketing and in branding,
00:19:34
Speaker
or being a founder or something like this, makes it really important to focus on how we can solve this problem that people try to or tend to aim at profit. Because I don't think that it's a natural sense. So it's not given naturally giving in this world. But economy and marketing is pointing at profits since ages. And I think
00:20:00
Speaker
Of course we have it in our hands, finding creative solutions, finding smart solutions, or making economy more circular. And I also read a very interesting number last week. I think it was like 45% of all startups try to aim at a social good in some way, can be socially sustainable or ecologically.
00:20:24
Speaker
sustainable, but this is a huge number of new companies trying to challenge the status quo. And I think it would be a shame if older companies, more established companies just say, oh, profit will win because there are startups, there are new ideas trying to push a push into this direction. And it's challenging, of course, but I think it's not impossible.
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah, I completely agree with you. And I think it's what a lot of old business, old economy businesses focus on because that's the only way they know how things work. And I agree with you and I think marketing has a superpower that is manipulation and we can use manipulation for good or for bad. And I think it's our decision and call what to choose.
00:21:13
Speaker
And I think the tricky part is, and that's the next topic that I want to touch upon with you is how do we get people to actually change their behaviors? Because for how many years it was just normal to go to a place and get some kind of plastic or maybe paper wrap packaging to take home and then just throw it away. How easy or hard do you find it to shift consumer behavior to a more sustainable way?
00:21:43
Speaker
I find it super hard and really challenging. And if things are working, it's also really rewarding. I think it's really hard to change behavior that has been learned for ages. And I think our case is really interesting because it shows how hard it is. As you said before, 10 years ago.
00:22:04
Speaker
Starbucks coffee cups in US, streaming series, were first seen. So it was not common that people are walking, especially in Vienna, where you have coffee houses. It was not common that people are walking around and drinking coffee and being busy. And then there was a new market evolving. And now 10 years in, it's really hard to go steps back and show that
00:22:30
Speaker
This is optional and that you can also opt for a more sustainable version, which would be sit in and drink your coffee, or if you have to run, take a reusable coffee cup and also for meals.
00:22:42
Speaker
Corona showed how much this market is also growing, taking food in or also delivery. So this is brand new and still it's really hard because convenience is king. And I think it's one thing that's really important is don't opt at finger pointing because there are so many crisis in the world. I think finger pointing is the least option that would work ever.
00:23:10
Speaker
And I think it's much better to show a positive change and show best case scenarios and where it's working already. And the rest is really complex. And I think it's also not only up to marketeers and creatives to solve this problem, but I think it's about dialogue and we also need politics. In Germany, we have this new law since January that every gastronomy bigger than 80 square meters
00:23:39
Speaker
has to offer a reusable solution. And at the moment also on EU level, they are negotiating about a new law for Europe that brings reusable systems into focus. And also in Austria, by the way, the government is introducing reusable or deposit systems
00:23:58
Speaker
more deposit systems than you have by now. So there are things happening, and I think it's important to tackle the problem on different levels. That's also why we don't only focus on communication and marketing, but also on public affairs, being also close to policy makers, and also having an ear on the market, on the need of bigger, a system gastronomy, bigger gastronomy, but they need to offer reusable options to their customers.
00:24:28
Speaker
I agree with you, like changing behavior is so hard. Thanks for your honesty here. And a couple of weeks ago, I read an interesting psychological experiment where they also highlighted this and maybe it's even useful for you guys because what they did is they did an experiment where in group A, people went to a coffee shop and there was a sign saying, if you bring your own cup, you get 50 cent off.
00:24:58
Speaker
Not a lot of people did that because it's psychologically not appealing. And then in group B, they sent people to a coffee shop and there was a sign saying, if you don't bring your own coffee cup, you have to pay 50 cents more. And suddenly people were bringing their coffee cups because psychologically, nobody wants to pay more than necessary
00:25:21
Speaker
If I can pay less, yes, okay, it's nice to have. But I think there was something very interesting in there that it's possible to change people's behavior, but we just need to think more of how people actually work. And I read this in a book the other day where it said, people who understand people will always win. That's true. Punishing is a powerful weapon. And we also know that and being in a dialogue with our partners, we suggest different solutions, how they could
00:25:51
Speaker
support their customers to choose the more sustainable options. And some of our partners also do it, like you described it, they have a fee on single use packaging. And that's, by the way, also a point that our government is discussing. If this would be a two or also Texas in a touring, and we have a great example, they have a Einwiechstäuer now.
00:26:18
Speaker
And they won against McDonald's, so they can actually hold on to the single use Stojer tax. And I'm really curious how this will shift behavior, but that's also what I meant. It needs policy to create a good setup. And then I think it really needs a lot of communication and explaining and showing how easy it actually is to choose the more sustainable.
Towards a Circular Economy
00:26:45
Speaker
solution. And coming back now to branding, how can you position RECAP as a brand that is not punishing people, but actually giving people more? How do you do that? Is that part of your content strategy? Is it part of your PR strategy? How do you apply that? I would spontaneously, I would say this is also part of this core value mid and under.
00:27:15
Speaker
bringing all the things we do back to the idea of creating a shared togetherness instead of finger pointing or opposing and more of giving a helping hand than saying this is bad. So I think we try to have this in mind when we create communication, also marketing strategies, also when we talk about our
00:27:39
Speaker
offerings to our partners. And for example, there are other systems that don't use deposits, but you can just borrow a product and if you don't bring it back, you will be punished. Clearly this has positive sides, but on the other hand, this is also kind of finger pointing and punishing a behavior you don't want. So, so far we've focused more on the positive signs.
00:28:06
Speaker
And on the positive message that it's really, really easy to use our analog system. You don't need any app or another tool or device. There is no data collected. It's very, very easy. And it comes down to the German deposit system that basically everybody is used to use. You just have to adapt it to, to go and take away. Yeah. Final question before we come to the final, final questions. What's your vision for recap in the future?
00:28:36
Speaker
Our vision is to create a sustainable and circular ecosystem for a world without single use packaging. So this means we want to contribute to a system that's really circular and closed group and thus sustainable and also thinking economy in a more circular way. Nice. Okay. Now to the final, final questions. What is a good marketing experience in three words?
00:29:03
Speaker
For me, it's really close to good branding. It has to be touching, activating, and also responsibly and keeping in mind that we can manipulate people, as you said, and this is a superpower you should use wisely. I like that. What's the future of marketing or branding?
00:29:23
Speaker
what should be the future of marketing and branding. I hope that marketing and branding will be more purpose-based, as I said before. So this for me means more focus on solving problems than selling problems. And then also I think that AY will make content creation, marketing campaigns, and so on.
00:29:47
Speaker
much easier and speed up the process a lot. So I hope that this is a huge chance for more quality and more time in the creative tasks.
AI in Marketing: Future Speculations
00:29:58
Speaker
And I also believe that this will put a new kind of spotlight on soft skills and real emotions and also
00:30:07
Speaker
transporting real emotions through products, through brands, through offerings. And I hope that we will find more unique approaches then because time for creative tasks will rise.
00:30:20
Speaker
I hope. Okay. Let's see about that. But I can definitely agree on that we need more real emotions authenticity. That's what a lot of startups are really good at. And most companies or corporations really have a hard time because they are so used again to
00:30:38
Speaker
old mechanisms where it's one too many, and we're the perfect company. And I think if a company is strong enough to also show, hey, we're not perfect, we don't point fingers, as you said, and we show you all that we are doing, but there is no black and white. I think that's the only way forward, actually.
00:30:59
Speaker
And maybe startups can also be a kind of blueprint for the way of working and approaching challenges, not only for the way how they try to integrate sustainability in their business cases.
00:31:14
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard just today that part of the new EU legislation is going to be you can only say you are sustainable if sustainability is part of your core business. Everything else is just compensation. I don't know if that's going to be implemented, but I find it a very good approach.
00:31:34
Speaker
now knowing how lobby is working on EU level and how big companies try to have a very loud voice in this process. I hope that this will be implemented. I think it would be very, very important to bring it to the core of economy and of business. And I think this would also really help a lot to speed up the processes and make the big players move.
00:32:01
Speaker
All right, on a more personal level, final question. What book have you read recently that you want to recommend here?
00:32:07
Speaker
seemingly personal and professional, but connecting to what you've said before. I think we also need a new way of working and approaching business and working as teams because it's more digital, it's more remote. And I've just read the loop approach from the dive sitting in Berlin. And for me, it's a really good hands-on book showing how we can work role-based
00:32:38
Speaker
how we can approach transformation and change and integrate this idea of purpose and vision and values to even single roles. It connects it with GFCAR and a lot of other tools and it's a really holistic approach and very closed loop approach to how
00:32:59
Speaker
we can think economy in a new way. So I really enjoyed reading this book and then I did a training because I'm so interested in the question how you can connect branding and all we learned in marketing to the way how we can create a more sustainable economy and companies.
00:33:17
Speaker
And then the personal book would be A Void in Cockook's Land. I fell in love with the wording and it really inspired me by the way of writing. It's a really complex book connecting different levels of storylines in a very imaginary world and very complex characters. So that would be the more private, more personal read.
00:33:41
Speaker
Thank you so much for sharing that. I think I'm going to check out both. Also from different perspectives, that's very good. So Johanna, thank you very much for coming on the show. It really was a pleasure talking with you. I love what you're doing. Keep up the good work. I can't wait to hear more success stories and great ads from you guys.
00:34:03
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me and also to the listeners. Thanks for listening. And if anybody of you has the solution for how to change behavior in the reusable sector, of course, feel free to contact us. Yeah, do that. And I think it's good for everybody if we find more solutions. Yeah, take care and thanks for coming on.
00:34:27
Speaker
And that's it for today's episode. Thank you for listening. And now I have a question for you. Are you curious how your marketing can achieve sustainable growth? Then I have some simple and exciting options for you. First, this is exactly what I do for my clients. I help them build their future strategy with workshops and sparring sessions.
00:34:50
Speaker
I also have a very simple entry offer for founders and aspiring marketing experts, the Simple and Sustainable Marketing Academy, with a ridiculously cheap entry ticket price, because I love sharing what I've learned. Lastly, if you enjoy reading, check out my newsletter, where I write about marketing, strategies and sustainability, for over a thousand bright and curious minds.
00:35:15
Speaker
you can find all the info in the show notes. And if you have any feedback on this episode, I'd love to hear it. Please give me a rating wherever you listen, if you like it, or reach out to me directly. So until next time on future strategies.