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The Run Testers Podcast | The Future of Carbon Plate Shoes
702 Plays1 year ago
This month on the podcast the team is talking about the future of carbon plate running shoes, from how the technology will develop to how expensive we can expect them to be.
We'll also be talking about the latest watches from Garmin and the Hoka Tecton X2, answering your questions and enjoying some groundbreaking running facts.
This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Saysky and listeners of the podcast will also get a discount to be used to save 15% at the online store: https://saysky.co.uk
Perfect for that Sunday long run.
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Hey, Tommy from The Run Testers and welcome to The Run Testers podcast. In this episode we are going to be talking about carbon plate running shoes.
Carbon Plate Running Shoes: Trends and Future Predictions
00:00:13
Speaker
So we are going to be discussing what's happening in the world of carbon plate running shoes at the moment, what we think is going to happen in the future of carbon plate running shoes and discussing lots of things in and around that.
00:00:23
Speaker
We'll also be talking about the latest kit news and running through a number of your questions. This episode of the podcast is also brought to you by Seyski. And if you get to the halfway point of the podcast, you will get a discount code that you can use for 15% off the Seyski online store. Right, let's jump in and do the podcast.
Hosts' Personal Updates and Race Experiences
00:00:51
Speaker
Guys, we're back for another podcast. And...
00:00:57
Speaker
We've all been up to lots of different things recently. Well, I suppose some of us have been up to running. Nick's not done so much recently. Too busy. Excuses. I have a sun now, though, so I guess it's a decent trade-off, a bit of running for a sun. I'm not entirely sold on the trade as it is, but I've still been running. They're a bit raced, you know, kept it going. A little bit of time each day, getting more and more tired. Running's getting worse and worse and worse, obviously. If I sign up for an ultra just to try and prove I'm not over the hill,
00:01:26
Speaker
Oh yes, it's an altar that you keep going on about. Yeah, five mile loops in my local forest. Perfect. Exactly my kind of altar. Yeah, I think that's a good one. You know, the clock has started ticking though, Nick, on the fact that at some point between now and in the future, you will not be the fastest Harris Fry.
00:01:43
Speaker
Oh, I don't know. It's not a matter of... It's actually useless, I thought. As soon as he starts catching up with Nick, Nick's going to start overfeeding. I honestly forgot how rubbish they are. Like, oh, I've eaten stuff and I've got gas. And you have to deal with that for me. What are you talking about? Why can't you burp when you're born? What is wrong with you?
00:02:05
Speaker
Back to the running shot. Mike, are you still injured? Getting better. I did a race. I did a race. Didn't have to stop doing it halfway or anything like that. It was hard. It was hard. I did Hackney half at the weekend, which...
00:02:22
Speaker
Kieran also did, and the main goal was just to try and do it on a very minimal training, probably one long run. Progress is being made, so hopefully, fingers crossed, I'm fully on the mend, so I'm feeling a lot happier and I can start getting through a massive backlog of shoes that I have in my family at the moment.
00:02:43
Speaker
It's exciting. Yeah, so Hackney Half, I was meant to do that, but I got back from the Azores very early in the morning and decided to skip it because of bad hay fever as well. But it sounded like it was a very popular one. Everyone seemed to be doing Hackney Half this year. And of course, you did it. Yeah, it was a good race, actually. I enjoyed it. It's the first time I've done it. I've kind of
00:03:05
Speaker
It always seems to be a brutally hot day and it was pretty hot again, but it had a good atmosphere. I think it was well supported. It's kind of hilly as well and kind of twisty and turny, but yeah, I quite enjoyed it actually. It's a bit like the London Marathon, except instead of the crowds being kind of general folk, there's lots of young people drinking beers at 9 o'clock in the morning and cheering everyone on, which is
00:03:27
Speaker
Thanks for a bit of a lively run. I always get really jealous. Every time I leave Hackney Half and I see everyone just at the side doing the sun drinking, I always think I just come to spectate. Yeah. Yeah.
Training Insights and Humorous Takes on Marathons
00:03:38
Speaker
Nice. And so how was that fitting into your training for Comrade's then? Well, it was OK. I'd made the mistake of playing football. My son's kind of parents and coaches. I'm one of the coaches of his team's football tournament on the Saturday. And it's not supposed to be competitive. It's supposed to be kind of leisurely.
00:03:55
Speaker
I obviously don't know how to do that. Woke up in the morning, couldn't lift my legs out of the bed. Turns out football's not great pre-half-marathon training, but I think I've put those two things together, and that's kind of what you need to do to run 55 miles up and down hills, right? I mean, that's perfect training. No, I think it's pretty standard training. Yeah, it was all right. I figured if I just overload myself,
00:04:16
Speaker
then I may stand a chance of finishing Comrades. You haven't got a coach at the moment, have you? I've never had a coach, really. You just created, you seem to have a different format for training every time we speak. Yeah, with this one, I've just sort of, yeah, I'm kind of winging it a bit, hoping that I'm going to rely a lot on experience, Tom, I think.
00:04:35
Speaker
I used the old head to get round this one. And how long is it? How long have you got? It's 11th of June so technically it's probably taper time soon. I went and did the Exmoor marathon and that was good for getting lots of elevation in the legs so hopefully that will be enough. Looking forward to it.
00:04:55
Speaker
Well, I've got my coach now. I've been on holiday twice since I've had a coach. So I'm not seeing any gains yet. So yeah, I think marathon training is going to start kicking in soon. So looking forward to that if I can sort out which marathon I'm going to do.
00:05:11
Speaker
You're still not found. Are you still thinking? I'm still holding out to Berlin. We're not having this chat again. We did this last week. At one time, I got into Berlin. Well, you know, it's all about adorning. But it still happened in October. So that's not even a backup. That's just a drinking one. Cool. All right, then. Well, let's jump in to running kit news. Running facts.
00:05:41
Speaker
All right, so let's just have a quick running fact at the end of this section. So this one...
00:05:46
Speaker
Again, I'm not verified any of this, so if you're listening to this podcast and using this information to write a dissertation, don't. You're going to fail. You'll probably fail. Apparently the first attempt, a serious attempt to develop the sport of ultra running took place in 1928 when sports promoter Charles C. Pyle had did a foot race across America from coast to coast
00:06:13
Speaker
Apparently the winner was Andy Payne, and he finished in over 573 hours. 573 hours to run across America. Can we have days? That's quite a hard thing to pass, Tom. I'm not putting enough effort in to actually work out. No, that's not enough days, man.
00:06:30
Speaker
Oh, maybe for you, Kieran. Nineteen days. That's, yeah. Well, we don't know which coast it was. Where's the really skinny narrow path? The 51 mile Panama Canal, whatever it is. Yeah, it's not very clear. Same with all these really fast. 3,000 miles of America, isn't it? Yeah, Kieran's going to be working this out all night. I think I'm going to do it next week. It's moving pretty quick. Oh, right. Is it in a Jules Verne book?
00:07:13
Speaker
And I'm pretty sure there's a guy Marshall Ulrich I think did I think I've read his book it was like 53 days and he set a record hmm
00:07:21
Speaker
And that was more recent, so... Well, as I say, we need a new facts guy. If you're writing your dissertation on this, stop it now. Use chat PPT instead. Go and use the proper research. Okay, another one, that's in a bit.
Technology in Running: Garmin Watches and Magic Speed 3
00:07:40
Speaker
Right, so running kit out at the moment. It's been a little bit quiet, really. There's not been any major shoe launches or anything this month, but there is, of course, a very big launch, which has happened today, which is the new Garmin watches that are out. So I don't know anything about these, but it's just you, Nick, who's got these so far. I think Keira's got one now, haven't you? Yeah, I've got the Phoenix Pro.
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah. I've got the big one. I went for the middle sized one.
00:08:14
Speaker
I wish I got the big epics. The big epics is battery life. Absolutely incredible. The amount of times you moan about big watches on your small wrists. Yeah, I'll take it. You're right. You're definitely right. And actually, in our videos today, I'll have complained about the size of both these watches undoubtedly. But yeah, I got them both in. The pro in the name largely refers to a few new features that we've not been able to test pre their launch because we don't have access to Garmin Connect.
00:08:41
Speaker
There is a few bits going on. They've got a new hill score, basically your rating on hills that will work out automatically from your training history or it takes two weeks to ascertain it, which is annoying because I've had the watches for probably 13 days before the embargo lifts. I won't have those score yet. And the other one is an endurance score, which I know is a couple of new metrics. I'll be interested. We haven't used them yet, so I'm not going to pass judgment, but I'm not sure how much they're going to add to the overall training that's on the watch. You know, I think one other big new thing on them is new heart rate sensor now.
00:09:10
Speaker
very hard to judge these over a short period of time. I've done kind of three or four or five runs, I think, with these watches now. And I will say that they've yet to really make a significant area on heart rate. For an optical heart rate monitor, that's very good. But at the same time, I've been doing mostly easy runs in warm condition, which is the best possible thing for an optical heart rate monitor. So I will still be surprised if they really
00:09:29
Speaker
as bulletproof as you'd want them for for a watch like this that has all this training analysis going on but that's an interesting new addition to the watch um new sizes in the ethics is interesting and like i say the big ethics pro is offering like you know a lot of actual opportunities i can't remember i saw sort of 11 days with you always on screen on and that's a big AMOLED display
00:09:47
Speaker
And, you know, if you turn the audio display off, you're going to get several weeks out of a watch with a nice bright screen on when you are running. So that's quite interesting. Otherwise, you know, it's a, it's another, another, maybe not entirely necessary addition to Carmen's range. I think it's fair to say, like we're still waiting to see also, we'll know by now, over the time this comes out, we don't know at the time of recording when, how many of these features roll out, things like the Enduro two, you assume they'll all be on the Enduro two. What the 965 gets to be very interesting. Cause I think 965 is like,
00:10:16
Speaker
for an incredibly expensive watch, incredible value, because it has all of Garmin's stuff. It has the same big screen as the Epix Pro on the 51 millimeter Epix Pro, in fact. It's got basically the best screen Garmin has of any watch and a much smaller, nicer little cheaper watch. So if that doesn't get Hillscore, I'm not sure it's gonna be enough of a deal breaker to make me pay the extra. But then obviously these all have the Epix and Phoenix styling and a lot of people like those big bezels, metal bezels,
00:10:44
Speaker
I don't know. I have never hit a watch hard enough to think, God, I'm glad I had a titanium bezel, but some people must be like, right? Have you found it, Kerry? I mean, I've basically had it on for about a day and a half. The first thing it did was give me terrible silicone burn on my wrist overnight, which is awful. So we're all pampered by these knives on hand now. Yeah, I mean, it was really quite bad. It's actually brought up a blister overnight. So I actually had to swap wrists. Well, you're just twisting it as fast as you could. Pinching and kind of, but it's actually burnt. I've got like a proper burn mark on my wrist.
00:11:15
Speaker
I don't have mine yet. I don't have mine yet. Definitely not annoyed about that, but I cannot believe Nick hasn't mentioned the fact that all Phoenix models get a flashlight. Oh yeah. You get a flashlight. I've still never tested one of these more recent watches that's got a flashlight on it.
00:11:32
Speaker
I think what you're missing out Tom, I will say I was thinking, oh, flashlight is gonna be really useful. So I can be up and down in the night, you know, creeping around the house trying to and a flashlight be really handy, except that my older child requires the house to be essentially flood lit at all times. Otherwise, she won't be able to speak. Doesn't matter. It's very bright in my hand.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah, they all get flashlights. Yeah, Mike, my UPS man and I are on speaking terms, lovely guy, first name terms, waves it in the street, came to me straight away with his watches. I don't know if Mike has kind of run in with his guy, but all I know is he hasn't got the watches. He doesn't want to give them to me. He doesn't want to give them to me. So on the Hill School, what I mean, I've only sort of
00:12:10
Speaker
I haven't really looked into it properly yet. What is it going to tell me? Is it going to say you're good at hills or you're not good at hills? Yeah, you get a colour-coded chart saying, here's your hills. And I guess then I suppose if you're training for comrades, you go, oh, it's saying I'm terrible at hills. Maybe I should go do some hills. But I can't wait to complete comrades and for it to say you're rubbish at hills at the end of it. In true Garmin way. You think you're mad and seven minutes quicker than the prediction that tells you afterwards.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, I need your score as well. I don't know. Your score to me feels like it might end up, you know, chorus is slightly confusing marathon level thing that we all kind of that's a bit weird. I thought I was gonna be one of those game. Okay, weird. Don't need that. You've got the OT max and everything else on there. Like stamina. What happened to stamina? What happened to stamina? Whatever happened to stamina? Still there. Don't need it. Don't need it. The watches have got so good. I do think it's interesting.
00:13:03
Speaker
I think it's a good idea that we're really trying to work on heart rate accuracy because that is a tangible game to lots of people. I just worry, at the end of the day, you can't do much. It's on the wrist and you are flapping your arms all over the place. I really don't see how much you can do. Like I said, they've been good so far, but most watches are good to me at this time of year in the summer. I did a couple of sprints up hills, stuff like that, and it still lags slightly behind the chest strap. Not annoyingly so, but
00:13:30
Speaker
I just, yeah, I'll be surprised if that's a big leap forward, but I also wonder. I've called them for trying. I've called them for trying on bigger watches as well. I think that's, that's a, that's a good thing. But I mean, like you might say, Nick, I think it's going to be tough going in terms of getting accuracy where it needs to be. And also I still kind of feel like, did we need another top end garment when there is the Enduro, the, uh, the ethics, the Phoenix and the nine, the four and a nine six five. It's getting busy. It is.
00:13:56
Speaker
It's game busy. It's pretty, yeah, it's dominant in this area of the market. There's no one else who's making really top-end watches that are anywhere near as good, but now there's more of them. I don't know. Well, by the time people are listening to this, then we probably, hopefully, already got some videos up so you can find out plenty more, or maybe not everything, because we're still waiting for some of the features to be released on them, but you can find out. I'll be quite negative, but these are some brilliant watches. It's just all about...
00:14:24
Speaker
There's probably so many great Garmin watches. It sounds very negative to go at them. You've just not had any sleep, have you? Yeah, but they are, you know, Garmin makes all the best watches at this end of the market and these are more of them. It's just they're more of them. They're not necessarily needed.
00:14:39
Speaker
All right, well, that's just a few of the things that we've got on the list. Let's run through these because we haven't got a lot to talk about on them. The new Magic Speed 3 is out in the US. I don't think it's out in the UK yet, is it? Yeah. Seeing a lot on site. And I remember when the first two came out, they weren't really that big. I didn't see that many people getting excited about them, but now everyone seems to be really into the Magic Speed 3. It's got some major
00:15:06
Speaker
improvements to it that mean it's going to be a big time competitive for some of the endorphin speed threes and things like that. Nick, did you write something on this about the Magic Speed 3? I thought I saw. No, I've been putting feelers out trying to get hold of it because I love the Magic Speed 2. It ended up in my rotation, replaced the Speed just because I prefer the fifth of it. But I think the new ones have basically put more
00:15:29
Speaker
more of the better foam into the midsole is basically what they wanted to do. It's very more towards the sort of super shoe side of things as opposed to the... I do think eventually all shoes will just be super shoes I guess, so this is emerging to that point.
00:15:43
Speaker
Well, hopefully we'll get hold of those soon because we'll be doing plenty of videos on that. Another watch, which we're probably not going to talk about as much as the garments, the Suunto vertical. I think, did you do this video, Kieran? No, I did. Oh, you did that one. I did it, but it's, yeah, it came a little bit out of left field, but yeah, it's basically a Suunto watch that's kind of aiming at kind of the Phoenix and a kind of vertex, kind of end of the market. It's got
00:16:08
Speaker
topo mapping, it's got really big battery life, particularly kind of in its kind of optimal GPS mode, it's like 60 hours. Dual band support, it's got titanium, stainless steel, bezels. Is it enough to kind of get into where it needs to be? Not 100% convinced based on kind of my early testing right now, but it's definitely a step in the right direction, but there's still things they need to do, I think, particularly on the software front.
00:16:31
Speaker
Cool, and we've got a first review, we've got a first one review. First one review, it's up in the channel, yeah. Cool, okay, and then finally, a pretty interesting issue, which Kieran, you've been testing the architect on X2. X2, yeah, yeah.
00:16:48
Speaker
which is basically the X but with some new uppers essentially there's not a huge amount that has changed there but it's still I mean it's still a great shoe it's yeah it's improved it sort of marginally I've tested it over I think I did a marathon yeah I did the X more marathon in it and yeah really solid shoe great shoe I think for ultras that aren't particularly kind of steep and technical it didn't cope too well in the sloppy X more mud
00:17:12
Speaker
There's some really, really, really treacherous bits of that where you're kind of running with, this is be perfect for eunuch. It's like a foot wide path with a cliff drop. It's a sloppy wet kind of chocolate mousse mud. Perfect conditions for killing yourself. And they've got to cope pretty well. But overall, yeah, if you like the Tekton X, you're going to like the X2. It's basically the same shoe. Oh, I mean to say, if he is the soccer, the Exodus Ultra, you've got your house given. Worth a run. I really like that. Yeah.
00:17:41
Speaker
Really nice. So I have it, it's in a box right down here where you put weave on the trails. That review's gone up. Yeah, it's just a really nice all-round shoe. Really nice. I loved it, pooping around the forest. It's got quite a nice midsole, grips pretty well. Yeah, everyone should try that shoe. No plate though. No, it hasn't got a plate. Better than a peregrine?
00:18:04
Speaker
I like it more than the Peregrine. I think the Peregrine's lighter and geared, has a slightly longer lugs, but I think the XS Ultra's got a better mid-salt, it's got some power on PB in there, and it's got a nice power on frame. It's very much like the Tempest. Tempest's got a power on frame with a power on PB core, and just means it's really comfy, and as also quite lively, if you wanna pound down a hill at some point. But Saucony's grip is just, that power track outsole is pretty good, actually. Kind of even if the lugs aren't that long, it works quite well. Lovely stuff. All right, well, let's finish with a running fact.
00:18:33
Speaker
Running facts!
00:18:37
Speaker
Back to the standard running facts, no quizzes this time. Although I've got some that could be a quiz question. So according to research in 2008, no reference as to what research this was. So again, treat this with a pinch of salt. Apparently sprinters in lane one react faster to the starting gun than those in other lanes, even when the sound is simultaneously broadcast to all the lanes. Lane seven is the slowest. What are your thoughts on that?
00:19:07
Speaker
groundbreaking like that. No, no thoughts. No thoughts before. No, there we go. There we go. That's all I look for now. Maybe they're sure they can, if they're next to the gun, can they not see someone moving? If it's simultaneously, if the gun's like right in the middle, I think, like a speaker or something. Maybe you get double sound. Maybe because unless the guy's out or unless the person who's shooting is actually in the middle,
00:19:32
Speaker
which would be very dangerous in the sprint. You're going to get the speakers now and then you're going to get a little bit of layered on top. There's another fact about sprinters in Lane 1. On indoor tracks, it's so tight, the bends, that if you're drawn in Lane 1, some sprinters just won't bother turning up because it's so much of a disadvantage. Interesting. Regardless of how quick they react to the gun, because it's too tight for that corner.
00:19:56
Speaker
I overtook someone on the inside of the inside loan earlier. That's the kind of man I am. What, an annoying man? There we go, so more of them in a bit. So Nick, you're a man who likes fancy running clothes? Certainly do, certainly do. Love a bit of fancy running gear. Makes the run for that little bit more special.
00:20:22
Speaker
Well, you'll be glad to know that this episode of the podcast is sponsored by Saysky. And for all the listeners and viewers of the podcast, they will get a discount code, which we will let them know about in a few seconds after we've spoken for a little bit. About Saysky. Well, Saysky doesn't really matter, does it?
00:20:44
Speaker
Well, according to the brand, they don't mind. I think Say Sky seems to be the phonetic way to say it, but they're not bothered. There's actually a page on the website that says they don't care how you pronounce it. Which is good, because we get criticized a lot on the channel for saying things wrong, so that's nice.
00:21:01
Speaker
Well, yeah, so anyone listening to this planning on commenting on mispronunciation, the brand don't mind. So how much do you know about Seiske, Nick? I know a lot about Seiske, Tom. I use a lot of their running gear, test a lot of their running gear. It's exciting stuff. It's good stuff. It comes out of new different designs regularly throughout the year across a series of quite core pieces that I use quite a lot, especially the two-in-one shorts, which have a lot of storage, which I'm a big fan of. I've used those for most of my training runs, to be honest.
00:21:29
Speaker
Well, did you know that the CEO and co-founder Lars Pedersen started as a pro windsurfer before setting up the round? I didn't know that. I will admit that. I'll hold my hands up on that one. Well, there you go. So apparently the idea was that he wanted to take the relaxed, fun style of windsurfing as a sport and take it into the running world. Lovely. Nice idea, isn't it?
00:21:54
Speaker
But that sort of follows on with one of the brand ethos, which is focusing on what they call everyday heroes. So these are runners that aren't elite level runners, sub elite level runners, and sort of ticking the boxes for everyone that wants to get into running, not just for people that want, you know, the elite level kit. Although they do cover that as well.
00:22:13
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think it's across the brand, all the gear is very high performance stuff, but it is quite functional. Like I say, with those shorts, it does carry a lot of gear, which you will need if you're not being supported by someone carrying your phone and all your fuelling for you. Well, should we give the code out to the listeners?
Saysky Brand Discussion and Carbon Shoe Innovations
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah, we promised it, so we should. We promised it, yeah. So that code is TRT15, and that'll get you 50% off at safety schools globally. So don't worry about where you live, because you'll still be able to use that discount. Enjoy it, enjoy the code, and enjoy pronouncing it any way you want. Yeah, go crazy.
00:22:52
Speaker
Alright guys, so the different gear we're going to do this month is focused on carbon plate shoes, largely around the future of carbon plate shoes and what we think is going to happen to super shoes in the coming months and years. It's an area of quite a bit of debate, especially in the comments, people always talking about carbon plate shoes and if you need them and all that sort of stuff.
00:23:16
Speaker
But before we talk about the future of them, let's just, for anyone listening to this who maybe isn't too clear on what a complex shoe is and what you'd use it for, Nick, do you want to give us a bit of an overview of what are complex shoes? So complex shoes are generally racing shoes, fast running shoes, although that's not always the case anymore, but they came about really after the advent of the Nike Vaporfly 4%, which came around in the Rio Olympics, but had been used a little bit before that.
00:23:43
Speaker
and it's basically it's literally a carbon plate in a shoe which acts as a lever as a spring but also stabilizes in general a soft stack of a very bouncy foam that's the other key element of all carbon shoes really is the midsole foam which is usually a very bouncy foam that without the carbon plate would be a bit sloppy and potentially not as quick something like the Nike Invincible has a super foam in it but without a carbon plate and is an easy day shoe rather than the racing shoe so the combination of the foam and this carbon plate basically creates
00:24:10
Speaker
boost your efficiency on the run. This makes you faster, it makes you more efficient so you're faster by virtue of being stronger and fresher at the end of races and being able to hold faster paces more efficiently. And they now have limits around them because they were proved so successful and world record started tumbling. You can only have a stack height of 40 millimeter in a race legal shoe and you can only have one carbon plate in the midsole because brands are starting to experiment with putting a couple of plates in to get even more propulsion from the shoes.
00:24:37
Speaker
But yeah, so race a little shoe, 40 millimeter stack height, one carbon plate, more efficient ride, faster times. Cool, very good. So next question, Mike, you can tackle this one. Two or three years ago, carbon plate shoes, it was pretty clear. There weren't that many of them. It was pretty clear what they were designed for. And when people went to buy them, you sort of knew what you were aiming for, but that's not the case anymore because there are a lot of carbon plate shoes and the market is pretty confusing, especially if you're new to running or you've never used carbon plate shoes.
00:25:05
Speaker
what would you say Mike is, what is the the carbon plate shoe world looking like at the moment for people? I mean it's busy I think you would probably say arguably that pretty much every major brand has a carbon plate shoe in their collection or most will have that you know particularly on kind of a road kind of running point of view but we're also seeing it in trail shoes as well, hocker in the north and the kind of north face of
00:25:29
Speaker
I've put in carbon fiber plates in their shoes as well. So it's kind of branched me out to a lot of different brands. We're seeing kind of smaller brands as well, embracing the technology as well too. So it's well spread. It's obviously making that decision between, you know, looking at what carbon fiber shoe you should go for a little bit more challenging than when it was a few years ago, where there's probably only a few brands that were offering it in their shoes.
00:25:53
Speaker
Yeah, I'll say that, I think the thing with carbon plate shoes is that, back in the old, I remember when the Vaporfly was out, and then that was sort of like the one carbon plate shoe that everyone knew about, and then Hocker released the Carbon X. And people all thought that that was, they just went, oh, this is cheaper, so I'll buy that one because, you know, they're both carbon plate shoes.
00:26:16
Speaker
very different type of shoe altogether. Now it's way more complicated because complex shoes aren't really the same thing anymore. Kieran, one of the things that people often think about complex shoes is that they're just for racing and people will just have a complex shoe for getting PBs and running fast. Is that the case still? I think it's changing. They often tend to be designed for racing, or I would say basically for running fast. So
00:26:41
Speaker
whether you're training and kind of raise paces and beyond, that's kind of their remit. It's often sort of down really to how the shoe is designed around the kind of midsole foam and the carbon plate as well. So you're looking at kind of stripped back minimal uppers to keep them lightweight, not so much kind of structure to the shoe.
00:26:56
Speaker
not so much cushioning in the heel colors, all of those kinds of things lend these shoes to being better for faster efforts or efforts where you might want to put them on for a couple of hours and then not be wearing them for long after. So yeah, they're often quite stripped back, but I think that we're seeing more shoes kind of, I guess, digress a little bit. Things like, you know, you've got the Hoka Bondi X, you know, it's a bigger, max that cushion shoe that has a carbon plate. I think some of the other shoes that you see
00:27:23
Speaker
are great for racing have more capabilities kind of lower down the pace as well so I think things like the underarm velocity elite is probably a more capable shoe even when you're doing kind of slower training runs I'd say the soccer and endorphin elite as well and we're seeing I guess the you know the endorphin pro 3 I'd argue as well is great for racing but you can do a lot more in so I think there's more versatility coming into play with the carbon shoes
00:27:48
Speaker
The other thing that we saw with the early shoes, I guess they were very expensive. The early vapor flies were expensive and they weren't as durable, so people tended to keep them for racing, or they should have done. I still saw people bounding down off-road river paths in Richmond, wearing them, thinking that they're only going to last like four runs if you do that. But I think we're moving away from that. And I think they're going to start to be, as Nick said earlier, used for things that are basically wider usage.
00:28:13
Speaker
I definitely think that we're seeing carbon plates being used in shoes that probably two years ago you'd never even dream of. Look at a lot of trail shoes now have carbon plates in and the way that carbon plates are marketed in those sorts of shoes is very different than how that is marketed in a race shoe. Quite often in trail shoes that they're not really there for speed. They're more there for efficiency and sometimes I've noticed that
00:28:40
Speaker
the brands will mention talk about them as being a sort of efficiency thing, but also double as a rock plate as well, which I find quite odd. Also, I think it's worth saying that carbon plates are very different across the board, basically, carbon plates from each user. Basically, carbon plates, I don't think I ever are completely carbon because that would make them too brittle. So there are always some kind of composite a little bit. There's different ways of making them. I think thermal moulding is the most expensive and to make it the thinnest and stiffest it can be. And
00:29:07
Speaker
Brands will often make carbon and TPU composite plates, they make them a bit softer. And then like you're saying, trail shoes are often a Carpatext plate, which again is, I think, some kind of mix of materials to make it a bit more flexible because you don't want it to be too stiff on the trails, or in Hocka's case, they're dual plates instead of one complete plate, and there might be three-quarter length plates. So there's lots of different plates, forked plates, there's another plate, or even energy rods, if you're looking at Adidas, but they all usually perform the same role, which is to create that propulsion. But yeah, we kind of say carbon plate is shorthand for everything.
00:29:35
Speaker
And also within that, I guess the other thing is the interplay with the foam, right? It's not just about the carbon plate, it's about how it works alongside the foam and that changes everything as well. So yeah, I think we use carbon races as the shorthand for it, but there's more going on that changes the feel of each of these shoes. Well, exactly. That's what I was saying with the Hocka Carbon X. I was just saying it had a carbon plate and everyone thought, oh great, it's the same as a Vapefly.
00:29:57
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot more. It's a lot more to it than than those tissues. All right. Well, let's let's jump into what we think is going to happen with complex shoes in the future. So over the next year or so, what what are we expecting or what are you guys expecting from complex shoes next?
00:30:14
Speaker
tackle this one? Sure, yeah. It's a really interesting time comp shoes because they basically have hit a limit because there is a literal limit set by World Athletic, so they want to make race legal shoes and we're never going to see the jump we saw from whatever you're racing in beforehand, like the ABS Boston to the Nike Vape Fly 4%.
00:30:31
Speaker
So from there, they increased the stack. That was the easiest way to increase the performance of the shoe. They hit 40 millimeters is now a limit. And now you are into tweaking. I talked to Nike as an event saying, you know, they're very confident as loads when you still do, we can tweak the plate, we can tweak the phone, but it is we are talking tweaking. I think one of the potentially interesting areas
00:30:47
Speaker
came out from the Mizuno Wave Rebellion Pro this year where they had that huge heel cut out which allowed for some slightly playful interpretation of the rules I'd say in terms of stack heights because the heel wasn't that high and then there was a very big stack in the mid-foot and things like that so I think we're going to see more attempts like that to kind of engineer the midsole to try and create different rides there's going to be a lot of talk about foams and I just I think we're back to the point when you know everyone used to deliver ratios of an insane amount of hype saying this is the best shoe ever like the Adidas
00:31:15
Speaker
Adios was like 2% better than other shoes and things like that. And the Nike just changed everything a little bit that they fly by really living up to all that hyperbole and exaggeration around the adverts. But I think we're probably now back to stage where we're going to see a lot of very big claims that probably are only going to result in very minor improvements in performance.
00:31:31
Speaker
I think within the limit that's been set now, you can play with it. You can play with the midsole shape. You can start finding better and better foams, lighter foam for the same energy return. I don't know what you can actually do. I actually think the Vaporfly 3 is another interesting area where they might go, which is actually a bit of a regression in some ways in that they made it. We've all seen a little bit less durable than it used to be. And I think maybe brands are going, well, actually, we're going to start sacrificing things a bit more like outsole to cram more foam in and things like that, because it's very hard now to improve on something when you've got, they've all got pretty, most brands have got great foams.
00:32:00
Speaker
They've all hit 40 millimeters, most of them. They've all got a well-designed carbon plate. How much can you do now about breaking the race rules? Yeah, it feels like trying to find that extra margin, that little extra gain, I think is going to require, there's only so much you can do with a shoe, that compromising and making it fair in other areas. So I think that's going to be a massive challenge for all brands that are trying to take the foundations of what we've already achieved with carbon shoes and try to make them even a little bit better.
00:32:30
Speaker
current. Mike, do you think we're going to see a shift in the coming months and years of what people actually expect from their carbon plate shoes? I think the more that these shoes are out there, the more that these brands are learning, the more that they can see how people are using them, see what are the benefits, see what are the things they can get from issues. As I said, I think we've
00:32:51
Speaker
We've got to a point with issues where we've seen really kind of positive in terms of them being there and people using them from a wide range of runners as well. So I feel that the more brands are using these kind of innovations and embracing it, we can kind of see that potentially there could be changes in terms of how they're using and how people use them in terms of their running and their racing as well.
00:33:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me is, as you say, Nick, it's all about tweaking now. But I think when it comes to a lot of carbon plate shoes, the question of durability is getting asked more and more now. So I think what, for me, it's going to be, the actual performance isn't going to change that much, but the quality, you know, the ability for it to last longer than it actually does is going to be a big focus. If you imagine a vape flyer that can handle
00:33:39
Speaker
you know, 600 kilometres without losing any of the squish. That's a that's a big improvement on that shoe. I don't know. I would say counter that though. But if you market to certain people, you went to them and go, this year he lost 100k, but it's a better performer. I think people would probably buy that.
00:33:54
Speaker
Yeah, well, I guess so. The other side of that is probably that you've got a lot of these shoes that are coming out like the Sauvignon Dolphin Speed 3, which are very versatile shoes, but the shoe itself is comparable with some of the top line super shoes. So maybe modifying those shoes to be even better when it comes to racing and having a true all-rounder for race day might be where things would go.
00:34:20
Speaker
There's another challenge coming down the line as well, and it's probably not going to happen in the next couple of years, but it's being thought about. But sustainability is going to be a huge change within these shoes. At some point, brands are going to have to find a way to make sustainable foams, bio-based materials that actually work. And I think there's ortholite have come up with a phone called Circle, which is essentially, it comes from plants, it can be returned to compost at the end of it.
00:34:48
Speaker
don't quite know whether or not it's actually going to live up to some of the foams that we've got now, but they are going to have to, whether they make the shoes more durable, whether they find a way to bring good quality, sustainable materials into the shoe, I think they're going to have to do that. I mean, the carbon plate itself and the components of the carbon shoes make that a very, even more complicated kind of puzzle to solve than other shoes as well, because you've got more components and the carbon plate itself is a tricky one.
00:35:13
Speaker
But I do think that's going to have to, at some point that's going to be something that these kind of shoes will have to wrestle with. And also I think as runners we're going to probably have to wrestle with it and with our own consciences as well. I think one of Puma's Pila finds is...
00:35:27
Speaker
it's cast a bean oil, but I don't know how recyclable it is. But yeah, that's definitely true. So I think carbon might be the last area they hopefully they'll start reforming their daily trains, I guess will be their first target and things like that. But eventually, like you say, everything's gonna hit that. But I think actually, one, I meant to say terms of improvement, I think one area that potentially could be a massive, massive area for carbon plate shoes and race shoes in general is personalization. In the future, like you'd see elites talking about the shoes like and you could show they're getting the
00:35:53
Speaker
the AlphaFly is tuned very much to what he wants from it, and someone like Bekele, Ken Nissi Bekele, doesn't like using it, doesn't feel like it works for him. And elites get a lot of say about the shoe. I think brands have always been working on this, the idea of using customized shoes, they also talk about 3D printing, maybe helping with this, but basically, a new system or something of determining what works best for the carpentry, what drops works best for you, what kind of rocker, and down the line maybe we'll all start getting elite level personalization in our shoes to get the perfect racing shoe for someone like me, a very shuffly heel striking, high cadence runner,
00:36:23
Speaker
compared to someone who's a big founding flowing run at it. Asics started this a little bit with the edge in the sky plus, but that doesn't really deliver the level of customization that has worked out. I think that might be something that we see in the future. And Nike actually mentioned something with the launch of the Faber 3, I think it was, where they actually said to me that they can already kind of do
00:36:43
Speaker
I can describe it like a cut and shut, which is when you kind of illegally smash two cars together to make them look like one that have been in a wreck. But anyway, they can take the uppers and fuse them to midsole. So you could, you can already sort of potentially choose your upper that you like. So
00:36:58
Speaker
you know interestingly with the Adios Pro if you don't like the old uppers but you like the strong uppers maybe you can choose the midsole unit with a different upper those kind of things could be interesting and Brooks I think also mentioned about the idea of this kind of spectrum of stability so you know rather than just having stability shoes and then shoes for everyone else that everyone needs a little bit of stability different levels and maybe that will become a little bit more fine-tuned as well.
00:37:23
Speaker
cool all right well let's look at pricing and costs so i think anybody listening to this podcast is probably aware that the price of shoes and especially the high the higher tier shoes especially the super shoes is getting pretty high then shoes are getting expensive now and it's quite rare to find a carbon plate shoe that is
Affordability and Future of Super Shoe Technology
00:37:44
Speaker
well priced. If you're looking for the top ratios, you're looking upwards of £200 at the moment. Do you think, Akira, now this one to you, do you think it's ever yet to a point where car and plate shoes have become so normalized that there are actually really good cost-effective car and plate shoes? Are there any at the moment? Well, I mean, are there any good ones? I don't know. There are some cheap ones. There's a 3.61
00:38:08
Speaker
flame for like $160 I think it is. I mean for me the best way to get a good carbon shoe is to go old generation. Some of those are still really good. I think that just you know particularly sort of acre flies and stuff. My fear is that they will just keep layering on a premium and you know in tandem with what Nick was saying about kind of people talking about sort of
00:38:28
Speaker
these margins of the shoes getting better and they'll still sort of be marketing them as the kind of this and that with the extra kind of percents and they'll just keep making them more expensive. I'm not sure. Yeah. Maybe one of the smaller brands will come in with a good shoe and say, actually we'll do it budget. But I think if you look into the major brands, I think this is where they, you know, it's their premium play. So I don't see them
00:38:51
Speaker
doing any knockdowns personally. I think there are a couple, you look at the ASIC's magic speed, which I think is still expensive, but it's falling a little bit in terms of the price, in terms of the other carbon plate shoes. Is that a carbon plate or a non-carbon plate? Magic speed three will have a carbon plate. Who does that?
00:39:13
Speaker
And then I think Puma is being pretty aggressive with their pricing. I think as well in terms of what they're doing with their shoe and their shoe range. I think there are, there will, I feel that there will be, but I still think it's still going to be a little bit more of a premium at least for a bit, but it feels that brands are trying to be a bit more aggressive with the pricing, but a lot of the big names are still getting high, high in terms of how much you're going to have to pay for those top tier shoes.
00:39:37
Speaker
I can't believe it will keep working though because the market is so old now and I don't know, every time I test a new carpenter I say it but maybe they're a little bit better but I've never found, I've not found one that I would buy for 250 quid over a £120 paper fly in a sale. It's just, I mean I bought a carpenter, pair of carpenters, used largely a little £100, the apple fly originals because I wanted the blue ones.
00:39:57
Speaker
I don't know. I know people always buy the newest one, but they can't just whack out a 300 pound shoe when you can buy the older gen. And it's so much so close to the standard. That said, everything's getting more expensive. I paid two pounds for crumpets today.
00:40:12
Speaker
How many? Only six. Like it's a small supermarket, but I mean, it's crumpet should be 35p for a pack of six. Beans in my co-op are £1.70. It's outrageous. It's absolutely outrageous. I had a big pack of crisps every night. That's not the point of making it. I shouldn't be eating the crisps, but I could always find reliably one set of crisps, set of crisps, one set of carbon crisps would be a pound on sale. It's because you're going to places that you're buying sets of crisps that are pricing's off.
00:40:42
Speaker
Even in sales, like £1.75 for sensations. Come on, come on. Right, back to the running. Every podcast practices. Yeah, it's true. We are getting stung on some of the shoe prices. It's so annoying when you do the shoe review and you go, and in the US, this is free, and in the UK, it's £300.
00:41:02
Speaker
Right, last question. This is over to all of you. And it's not just about complicated, it's about super shoes in general. So what do you think is going to be the next big evolution of super shoes? Is there going to be a new type of technology that sort of drives the next phase of super shoes forward? I shot my load earlier by saying the personalization thing. I think if there's one thing that could possibly make a big difference, it's that. Otherwise, I think everyone's gonna have a shoe with a big heel cut out, like the Mizuno Wave Rellium Pro, and try that as a way of improving shoes.
00:41:30
Speaker
And I'm going to repeat myself. I think the most important thing I'm going to get on a big kind of high horse. I think the most important thing that has to be done is to make the shoes more sustainable and buy that make them more durable. Basically, you know, the best shoe for the environment is the one you already own rather than one you own, buy and replace. So I think that's a huge challenge. And I expect to see more and more messaging around kind of environmentally friendly kind of performance shoes, maybe not in the next couple of years, but coming down the line.
00:41:58
Speaker
How sustainable they actually are will be up for grabs, but I definitely think that we'll see him being marketed as such. I already know what Max is. Flashing lights on the side. I love your options here. I feel like we're going to be literally under water before any brand takes any seriously. Running facts!
00:42:23
Speaker
Okay, running fact after that long section. So, what have I got here?
Fun Facts and Listener Engagement
00:42:29
Speaker
Oh, this is an interesting one. I say so, it's not an interesting one. I should really load the bar with this, shouldn't I? During the 2007 Boston Marathon, astronaut Sunita Williams ran 26.2 miles while on board the International Space Station in four hours and 24 minutes. I did know this actually. Why are you to write about this at some point?
00:42:51
Speaker
I think someone else did it. The end of British astronauts did it. He did it at the centre of London, but I think both. Yeah, he wasn't the first. But the treadmills are weird, aren't they? Because they have to be, you obviously have to be forced down onto them in some way because it's zero gravity. It looks really unpleasant setup to run in. I'm not sure the time is that relevant, is it? It's not really comparable with... Treadmill anyway, doesn't count mate. Don't care where you are.
00:43:21
Speaker
It's not bad fact that one is actually. Okay, so we're onto the question and answers section from the comments. So what we're gonna do is slightly different after this month because we're gonna do a separate mini podcast where we're gonna go through loads of questions and actually delve into them with a bit more discussion. Because sometimes we get really long questions and it's quite hard to actually
00:43:49
Speaker
one read them, but also discuss them. So, but for this month, we're going to be back to normal format. So we're just going to run through these and they're open to anyone really. You can answer them and try and power through some of the questions that we've had on the channel. So first one we got is from Lewis Holford. He says, are these really better than the Speedgoat 5s? And that's about the Northern LD3, the Arcterix Northern LD3. No, I mean, they're quite similar. For me, I like both of them.
00:44:18
Speaker
I think the Speaker 5 is probably a bit more versatile, a bit more comfortable. But I do really like the Northern LD3. It's a really nice shoe for long runs. There's a lot of cushioning in it.
00:44:29
Speaker
But I would say that the Speaker 5 is probably best for most people. Okay, Jorik Pitt says, great review. Talking about the gel Keanu 29. One for you, Mike. Great review. So this is not a very fast shoe. Can you recommend any fast shoes for overpronators? Now I would say before we go through this, we're not going to suggest shoes for overpronators in general, because if you're overpronating really badly, then, you know, you probably need to have a look into that.
00:44:55
Speaker
but there are stability shoes out there that actually are getting pretty good for fastest running shoes. So Mike, you've tested quite a few of these. Well, kind of moderate stability shoes, I guess, is probably what I would kind of call them. So things like the Tempest, the 860 V13, I think they're quite versatile shoes and shoes that you can do a range of different runs in. So I think my experience would be from the kind of moderate stability shoes where you're getting some of that support in kind of very different ways, but ultimately you're getting something that will kind of
00:45:23
Speaker
serve you better but also give you the ability to run kind of a mixture of different runs in as well. The one to look out for actually at Brooks. So Brooks started adding guide rails to shoes across its range and there is now a Hyperion with guide rails. So that's Hyperion tempo with
00:45:39
Speaker
little bit of that stability already quite a stable shoe because it's quite a firm midsole and I think that'll be a very very light far shoe with a bit of extra stability I think that'll work quite well. Brooks do that quite a bit aren't they? They've got their sort of stability element that they add on. Karen was talking a bit about that earlier but it seems that I think as we go forward there'll be more moderately level of stability shoes that sort of pop along from existing ranges.
00:46:03
Speaker
Okay, so Sebastian Gosse says, now I put this one in because we spoke about this a while back. Nick, I think it was you who were talking about you felt that it lost a little bit of its bounds.
00:46:20
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think it gets softer and softens up after about 100K and it's a lovely shoe, but I don't think it's as fast a shoe after that. For the first 100K, I was putting up against anything on the market. If they'd fly anything, I thought it was a brilliant shoe because of the way it rolls through and the foam is really good. But I think after that point, it just got that little bit more mushy and a little bit more soft and great for different purposes as a result, but I think it lost a bit of an edge. It was really apparent to me during, I was doing a workout where I was doing
00:46:47
Speaker
mile reps in different shoes and I just thought this just doesn't feel quite firm enough to do this and it definitely did when I first ran it in it so yeah. I haven't experienced that and I've done quite a lot of, well I've done about 150-200km in one pair now but
00:47:08
Speaker
But you know, I like softer the better. So it's probably get better for me. Okay, cool. So we've got a question from Avril Chen. Oh, this is good one, because there's actually a few people commented below. There's a few different levels. So they say, do you think this, it's all about the on cloud surface seven, do you think this would be a good recovery day shoe currently looking at these the A6 Nimbus 25 and the Nike Invincible 3? And we'll pick that.
00:47:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I love it for recovery day. Yeah, I think so. I think it's the perfect use for it. Yeah, definitely. I'd agree. The only thing about it is I'm using it tomorrow for a recovery run pretty much. I'm still interested to see how the midstar holds up over extended use, whereas I do think the Nimbus is going to be a bit of a monster in terms of durability. The cloud server, we don't know yet, just because it is a bit of a Nimbus feed to the line and it's very soft for on. So I guess that would be my only concern, but if you keep doing a lot of recovery runs in it, it might wear out quicker than another shoe.
00:48:03
Speaker
Yeah, I've been grabbing the Nimbus 25 and the Cloud Surfer for my kind of easy kind of run. So I think that's definitely good options. Well, this leads on to the next question, Mike. So, Harold Chen then asks, would you guys prefer them, the Cloud Surfer 7s or the gel Nimbus 25 as recovery shoes? Ha ha, good question. I'm going Cloud Surfer. Cloud Surfer for me all the way. I've moved towards more time than Cloud Surfer as well. I just love how light the Cloud Surfer is, given how soft it is. It just, it does feel
00:48:33
Speaker
Brilliant, but yeah. It squeaks. It squeaks. The only thing that squeaks. We did get a question about squeaking, but I've not had it. When walking, I am an embarrassing person to walk nearby from where in the cloud starts to make squeaks. I don't think it squeaks for me. I just walk down with it with my wife and daughter. Okay, free time. Next question. What about versus... There's loads of these. What about versus the succony triumph 20? That's top one for me.
00:49:00
Speaker
I think probably a more capable shoe if you want to use it for stuff other than recovery runs. But for pure recovery runs, I prefer the Nimbus and the Cloud Surfer. Cool. Benjamin David says, which would you say has the stiffer plate? The Rocket X2 with Vaporfly 3? Rocket X2 for me. Yeah, Rocket X2. I'd say Rocket X2 feels a bit stiffer. Definitely more noticeable for me. I don't know, I think I might have a stiffer plate or it's just got a slightly lower stack. Yeah, I couldn't tell you.
00:49:28
Speaker
OK, OK, well, we'll move on. James B Walker says, which is more stable? Deviate Nitro 2 or the endorphin Speed 3? I'd say Deviate Nitro 2 because it feels a little bit... It holds your foot bearing place, I think, because of that upper, but also it feels a little bit closer to the ground for me than the Speed 3, so I'd say Deviate Nitro 2. Yeah, I think it feels a bit more stable. It's got a slightly grippier outsole, which isn't really stability, but makes you feel a bit more confident in terms of stability, I think.
00:49:57
Speaker
Okay, Bob Bruno says, it's just popped off a few times in the best running shoes video. No new balance fuel cell SC trainer mention in this video? You didn't say that last bit, but I've added that on. I'm going to say if you go, I just bugbear it, Mike. If you watch a big video and just say, no, this shoe, what are you suggesting? Yeah, no, there isn't. If you haven't added a shoe in that you know we've tested, we don't think that's one of the best shoes. That's simple as that. I wanted to reply to all of those comments saying, oh, no, it's in there. Just make you watch it again.
00:50:26
Speaker
I went through a lot of questions and that was a big focus. People were just going, where's the shoe, where's the shoe? Basically, if you're listening to this and you watch that video and the shoe's not in there and you know we've tested it, we don't think it's one of the best shoes. That's the general point. If you have one specific reason why I want to delve into it a bit more, then ask a full question, we might get back to it. If you just say, no, this shoe? No, there isn't. I've got nothing else to add to that. Oh, Tom wouldn't let me put it in. Tom wouldn't let me put it in. Tom's banned it. I didn't know, I got rid of him. I've got a fantastic image.
00:50:55
Speaker
Tell us why you think it should be. Exactly. Yes, that's a good one. That's a great thing because, you know, I think people find different shoes at work for them and great if they do, but we'd love to hear why you think it should be. Okay, so I think that does us four questions this week. I'll do a very quick. Here's a final running fact for you. Running facts.
00:51:18
Speaker
The fastest marathon dressed as a badminton player, a man, is 3 hours, 23 minutes and 33 seconds. That's easy. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do it. So I'm not going to do
00:51:40
Speaker
I think most people wouldn't even question that you're in fancy dress. Yeah, yeah. Oh, why do you got a racquet? He had to. If you don't have a racquet, then no chances of record, right? These fancy dress records are getting ridiculous. I mean, if he's hitting the shuttlecock up all the way long, then fair play. Yeah. Or balancing it. Yeah. Like a badminton egg and spoon racquet. Do you want to fact on the shuttlecocks? No, because I've only got 12 seconds left on the... Oh, it's a smoothing thing in sports. Look it up.
00:52:08
Speaker
Good. Right. So that's it. That's us done for this podcast because we're running out of time on the podcast timer. If you want to get in touch with us on the channel, you can email us at team at the runetesters.com or at the runetesters on Instagram or forward slash the runetesters on YouTube, but you probably already know that. Thanks guys. And we'll be back next month with a new podcast. Adios.
00:52:37
Speaker
That's it from us on this episode of the podcast. Thanks a lot for listening. Don't forget to use your code for Seisuke, that is TRT15. And also don't forget to give us a subscription on your podcast provider of your choice so that you can make sure that you get a future episode of the podcast directly to your chosen provider. Thanks a lot for listening. Catch you next time.
00:53:02
Speaker
This episode of the podcast was presented by Tom Wheatley, Kieran Alga, Nick Harris-Fry, and Mike Saw. The podcast was produced by Tom Wheatley. The music was by Fear of Tigers.