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The Carbon Plate Running Shoe Special | Current top picks and the big ones to come in 2025
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You're spoilt for choice with the current range of carbon plate running shoes available. No longer is the market dominated by a couple of big brands. Now most companies have a contender for best carbon plate shoe in their collection. In this episode, Nick, Kieran, Tom and Mike chat through their current top choice for carbon plate shoes, as well as the options we hope to see in 2025.
We'll also be talking about loads of other stuff, from our current training plans to the latest products we've been testing.
Perfect for that Sunday long run.
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
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Transcript
Introduction to Carbon Plate Shoes
00:00:04
Speaker
Hey Tom here from the Run Testers and welcome back to the Run Testers podcast. In this episode we're going to be talking about carbon plate shoes so we're going to be running through the current ones at the top of our list.
00:00:15
Speaker
We're going be talking through the new ones coming up over the next few months or at least the ones we hope to be coming out over the next few months and we're going to be choosing the best carbon plate shoes for different types of runners.
00:00:26
Speaker
Right let's dive in and do the podcast.
00:00:30
Speaker
Good evening, and gentlemen. How are we doing? Excellent. load Hello. kind dude Okay. Good. How are you, Tom?
Mike's London Winter 10K Experience
00:00:40
Speaker
Very well, thank you.
00:00:41
Speaker
Very well. Very well. I hear ah congratulations that are in order from the race world. Mike, talk to us. The winter 10K. Well, now you started with me because clearly I did the biggest race. Those guys out in Spain eating patatas bravas when I was high-fiving polar bears. You're high-fiving polar bears, Mike. I didn't have them.
00:01:04
Speaker
No, yeah, I went back. I don't know how many times I've done the London Winds 10K now, but I mean, a few of us have done it. um So yeah, I got a last minute bib to do a bit racing that wasn't planning to do, but, you know, um had a nice little run out. and i It was quite a good time, actually. It was just finishing up with the Pocasiello X1 2.0, so good opportunity to have a little race round in that. There's a video up on the channel covering that. And yeah, it's chaotic,
00:01:33
Speaker
It is definitely a chaotic race to do. It's the least regimented race start in all racing. The time you put down is irrelevant. I mean, impeccable, impeccable bag drop, everything else. get to that Get to that start. There's so many waves. There's so many people in the wrong waves. No one cares about the waves. And, and, and yeah, and I think i I've kind of put some pictures up and there's there's a lot pictures of me, the official photos where it's just me on, ah on the pavement running, um, a lot of the race. Um, but yeah, no, it was, um, yeah, it's, ah yeah, it's at the beginning, um, very twisty turny can agree. I think, you know,
00:02:10
Speaker
A lot of the routes are very similar to the other London, kind of central London races, but I could find in the yellow X one. So you definitely feel like this is a a virgin issue that would much prefer running short to distance races in and compared to the CLO X one, which I think I liked it to do the longer stuff. We'll talk about in our review, but yeah, it it was good fun running around and yeah.
00:02:30
Speaker
High five some polar bears. No massage at the end this time? No massage this time. i don't know if that was an offer. Did you know did you know that me and Mike were offered a joint massage after the winter run last year? We didn't take it. Although we're we're walking around in um dressing gowns together.
00:02:47
Speaker
Yeah. nice travel of massa nice not Nice moment. it was really enjoyable, that was.
Training for a Half Marathon with Cooper App
00:02:55
Speaker
Well, how about um well what but training, Mike? You're still not training for anything, are you? just ah got marathon I've got half marathon and in March.
00:03:02
Speaker
so i've got That's kind of my kind of target race. I've an idea of what i want to do. I am following a training plan. i'm using the First, I'm using the Cooper. I've gone Cooper over Runner because I think everyone uses Runner and I wanted to give Cooper a bit of a run. ah and Yeah, it's been good so far. The session's...
00:03:20
Speaker
have been, yeah yeah, having a kind of bit of structure to my training. It's been quite nice and the app's been quite good to use. So yeah, I've got ah ah time in mind for that haven't decided what shoe I'm going have yet because there's been a lot of shoes to potentially use. and So yeah, at the moment, kind of half marathon, why i don't think I'll be doing a spring marathon as things stand, but yeah, kind of looking for forward to kind of knocking some time off my half marathon PB, so hopefully, so we'll see.
00:03:47
Speaker
right then kieran you've just been out uh to spain for a relatively flat jog yeah i went i've been into the i guess you call it it is mountains i keep sort of thinking are they mountains they're kind of volcanoes aren't they but i guess that's how mountains how many is they're there is it least it was in my mind and this is not what it is it's the island is one big mountain and you just go up the one it's one the whole thing is just one big volcano yeah exactly yeah it's not crazy island or whatever it is yeah exactly yeah I don't felt like there were more. I definitely went up more than one hill. So there's
Kieran's Trans Grand Canaria Marathon Experience
00:04:21
Speaker
one. You haven't mentioned where it is. It's Grand Canaria. Grand Canaria. Okay. Yeah. So did the Trans Grand Canaria Marathon, which out of four races, I think, in the series, there's a half, which actually has...
00:04:35
Speaker
The half sounds more brutal than the marathon. Marathon's actually 48 kilometers because all mountain marathons are longer. And that has 1800 meters of climbing, 2000 meters descending. i was speaking to a girl who was doing the half marathon the day before, and she's basically had the same amount of climbing just in a half marathon.
00:04:52
Speaker
I very nearly booked in to do the half. And in that moment, I was like, yeah, missed that one because that sounds brutal. But it was good. It was good. You kind of start in the center of the island and then you make your way down to the coast in Maspalomas.
00:05:05
Speaker
I think part of the hardest part of the whole day was the hour and a half bus ride going the other way along all these wiggly mountain roads. And um I was at Ali Ball from Runner's World was there. Both of us just looked over at each other at the same time. Ali had picked up ah her food bag with the hotel breakfast we'd been given at six zero in the morning and emptied out the food and it just got completely white. Oh, geez.
00:05:27
Speaker
And I felt exactly the same. and Before that, I thought it was just me on the bus on my own feeling sick. out and I never get travel sick, but that was that was long and that was the hardest bit. and then um and I've driven those roads and my ah my daughter did throw up. so yeah You're not alone, Kieran. Yeah. It's not the way I would have liked to start the race. It was um it took me a while to get my get my stomach back together again.
00:05:49
Speaker
And then pretty much from the gun, it's either up or down and really steep up or really steep down. And then at the end, they basically, the bit where you look at your, you know, you look at an elevation plot on your chart on your shorts on the number and you get to a flat bit.
00:06:05
Speaker
And then that last five miles or five kilometers was like running across a pebble beach. It was just pebbles, ankle breaking, Pebbles. Did you have the right shoes for Pebbles?
00:06:17
Speaker
Well, I got to test the Vectiv, the Summit Vectiv Pro 3 and they they, yeah, I had a kind of a bit of a mixed experience in them to be honest. They're quite wide in terms of the platform. They're quite high with the stack.
00:06:31
Speaker
So at times they were good. Some of the trails are pretty kind of lumpy and bumpy and they were good at kind of soaking up some of the harshness of it all. And over the six and a half hours, you know, they had good cushion, but For me, I want, I like a little bit more precision in my trail shoot.
00:06:43
Speaker
I just, I don't know i was tired as well in the race. so It's a bit harsh maybe on the shoe, but I was clipping my back foot quite a lot because they felt a little long and a little big. Um, they were okay. They were actually okay on the pebbles, you know, they were theyre nice and stable and They did a job.
00:06:58
Speaker
But yeah, I think it's one of those shoes maybe that caters better for going longer and more runnable. I know the guy who John Alvin ran came second in the race, used them for the whole race. But obviously a much more gifted runner than I. Did 120, 135 Ks 12 hours something. Whereas did 50 in six and half.
00:07:17
Speaker
far as i did
00:07:21
Speaker
All then. Well, ah Nick, you had a pretty good weekend, didn't you? solid weekend. solid weekend. Still feeling the effects of it. The drinking or the running? The drinking. The drinking, yeah. Honestly, legs have been fine. The legs have been fine, but the drinking, that hit hard. Well, I've done a lot more training for the running. I've done very little training for the drinking, it's fair to say.
Nick's Personal Best at Seville Marathon
00:07:41
Speaker
Yeah, Seville Marathon, new PB, 2.25 on the clock. Just, yeah, went very much to plan. Everything was and it was good. like Pretty tough. A couple of weeks building up to it. You hit a taper and you stop running so much, so you lose a bit of confidence from that. and i was um My wife had a work trip, so I was so looking off the kids' side, so everything was quite a bit stressful. and I got there and then my Airbnb was rubbish. Cheaped out on the old Airbnb and it cost me. Didn't have a kettle. Gotta have a kettle. nice sal was we know The bed was comfortable and the shower was hot. So that's all you really need. But it it was fine. It's just ah i was three bottles of wine. No kettle. actually texted him. There's no kettle here. And he went, yep.
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, guess. Yeah. You had bottles of wine prepared for you. You left three bottles of wine there, which I said wasn't drinking because i was doing the marathon. And then, you know, when I went out after the race, I didn't bother drinking those first by myself in my weird Airbnb.
00:08:33
Speaker
But yes, I had a little saucepan of hot water for my coffee on race morning. But then that set me up perfectly. So I'm gonna do that from now on all the time, I guess. You had a McDonald's. Uh, the McDonald's I got, ah, so obviously this a thing Tom in particular likes to do and likes to as well. as There's different stuff in McDonald's in Europe, around, around the world.
00:08:48
Speaker
And there was some cold two-toe, two-toe pepperoni burger. And it was absolutely horrific. so I got there. First thing I did, I got off the bus, went straight to the expo. I broke my glasses, lost the arm on my glasses, had this terrible burger, got to the expo, went to the flat, went, ah,
00:09:03
Speaker
I think the arm of those glasses will probably just be at that McDonald's. So I went back to the McDonald's all the way back to the expo, found the arm of glasses, remade them. People want to know about the running, but I think probably is more important. Got this also. So I spent like the first like, yeah, six hours just going back and forth to the expo. Hold on, you found just an arm of your glasses in the McDonald's?
00:09:20
Speaker
Yeah, it was just outside on the floor because that's where they'd broken because I put i know that's where I'd put my sunglasses on. I'd probably just snapped it, you know, putting them against my chest or something. Other than that, very smooth, very smooth experience. ah um Yeah, ran with a group to 20K, but between 15 and 20, they slowed down a bit.
00:09:35
Speaker
And I was like, this isn't enough. So I had to go. So I went. and then two people came with me from the group. There was a Peruvian elite lady and this young Spanish chap who basically towed me from there on, really, to about 35K. Yeah, really aggressive 10K from 20 to 30. And then it could have gone either way. It could have been either completely blown up or just held on, held on.
00:09:55
Speaker
And yeah, it was and that fantastic. Really good race. Very flat. it's um It is quite, I said it was quite low-key in the video, so it's not low-key, 14,000. 14,000 is pretty That's like, there's winter run in London.
00:10:08
Speaker
And all of them are in wave one, as Mike knows. and But this, would yeah, and so someone I know was, ah I think, eight minutes late to the start line thinking, you know, why it doesn't matter. I'm in one of the later ways. so No one there. They'd all gone.
00:10:20
Speaker
That's how efficient it is. So, um yeah, nice wide roads. You know, got pretty hot late in the day. it's got I think it's got, someone told me it had five-hour cutoff, which is a crazy aggressive for a marathon, right? ah don't know that's when they start picking up the back and people were still able to finish. I hope they're still to finish because, mean, London doesn't have have any kind of cutoff now, does it? you can fit if Even if their main start's gone, you can still finish somewhere because there's always video of someone in a diving suit or something finishing two days later. um So, yeah, i really liked it as a marathon. it's I think it's great. It's brilliant. It's the first one of the year, the big one, which means currently I'm top 10 UK marathon times. Stop the count right there. um
00:10:55
Speaker
But you know for us, I think it's not quite ideal in the UK because it does mean you're training pretty seriously in the worst part of the year, January and maybe even Christmas. But um I do think in general it's a brilliant marathon and a little bit less stressful than know kind of valencia is now valencia is so big london obviously is crazy and all that so that's if you like if you if you basically got like because you guys weren't like you'd got bit sick of the crowds in london didn't you in terms of everything about it last year yeah tom and mike um so mate you this would be this is a much more relaxed spirit i mean the expo went on the friday but there was like only two people even bothering doing bibs because there was no one there We've all done it, haven't we? We did it, yeah. I can't remember it very well. can only remember the finish line when you lost your headphones, Kieran. That's the only memory I've
Brighton Half Marathon and Tom's Frequent Races
00:11:37
Speaker
got. How was the orange, Nick? How was the orange? you get the orange at the end? No, we didn't get the orange. I mean, you still have to get them at the end, do they? My Airbnb, I'd say, the one thing for it, it was on a very orange tree-lined little avenue. was trying to dodge the thing. It's falling on my head pretty much after walking around.
00:11:54
Speaker
Okay. Well, I haven't done anything. No? You've been you've got some Lego or something well I've i've got Brighton Half Marathon this Sunday so if we'd done this podcast next week would have had something to talk about and it probably you would have I can't hear any more about your Brighton you've done every Brighton race all the same they're all just backing along the seafront there's not many races um the the only races road races around here are in ah around Brighton everything else is like cross-country around here they don't really have many other races so if it's not if it's not brighton doing you know trail runs basically your commitment to brighton races is unmatched there's nothing a weekend goes by when there's not you're not there down in brighton running along that seafront complaining about local legend gotta be local i've got loads of local legends begie hill i'm killing it on the the local residential streets
00:12:42
Speaker
Not many runners in Burgess Hills. I've got absolutely a figure stride. I've got absolutely... So I wait wait for my taper. my mate goes out, ah just steals one of my segments. the The week of the taper.
00:12:53
Speaker
Nice. I'll be getting that back. Text him straight away. yeah yeah absolutely can't get the week of the taper outrageous behavior it's good i like that that's uh do i know this person uh you yeah you've met good right i'll congratulate them then um all right let's uh let's talk about kit
00:13:23
Speaker
Okay, so we're almost to March now and there's big jump in ah new shoes coming out since since last
Carbon Plate Shoes Review
00:13:31
Speaker
time we did the podcast. and Some quite interesting ones as well.
00:13:34
Speaker
What have we got recently that's quite exciting? Lots of carbon. We had loads of carbon shoes. I'm not sure if we were discussing them now or in the video bit, Tom.
00:13:44
Speaker
You can do a ah short overview of carbon shoes in this and then we'll save the the detail for it later. Got one right here. Got the Endorphin Elite 2, which is, I think, one of the most unique feeling shoes, maybe. a Very strange, very sensationally soft. I think it's not quite to my taste, and but I think if you like crazy, weird feeling shoes, it's... I mean, it does bounce back. It's really soft, but it is very fast. It does bounce back, but it it does feel a little bit little bit wild to me at times. I think...
00:14:12
Speaker
We also have the Hocus Yellow X1, and I think that's a bit more controlled in how aggressively bouncy it is. Whereas the Elite 2, I don't know about you guys, but but it is odd. it's It's been a while since I've been so undecided about shoe. feel like I do like it, but there's something about that change in and that foam and how it feels. that i I don't know, would would I want it to go the distance? where I don't know, but there's something I like about It's also something I'm just like, I'm not sure. It's very removed from the last shoe, but...
00:14:41
Speaker
I don't feel like I can switch off in it, basically. I have to be thinking about it. And exactly particularly if you go near a corner, need to concentrate on what's happening the he down there, which is... Yeah, I mean, it's fun. It's so much fun, but it's what it is wild. That's how I'd describe it. I think that's exactly right. I've just filmed our review bits for it I think the thing I had was I'm just...
00:15:01
Speaker
I think I'm just slightly too aware of it for the entirety of a run than I'd necessarily want to be. And on the track, it was great. In the first run, I loved it. On the track, obviously, it's a very controlled environment. There's nothing going to go Even then, it was the grip wasn't amazing. But um yeah, ah I took it for like a little mixed pace run on streets because a lot of people talk about how comfortable it is at easy paces. And it is very comfortable, but I wouldn't be jogging around in this shoe much.
00:15:24
Speaker
and Well, I'm just looking forward to it. I think I'm going to get a pair next. It won't in March. Might use it for Manchester. We'll see. Well, yeah I think you'll like... I mean, you will like it. It's soft and it does bounce back, but I think I prefer... mean, the Hocus Yellow is an amazing shoe. I think the new one is really good. They've cut so much weight from it while retaining the bounce. And basically, they instead of you know sacrificing the speed, they've sacrificed stability. And in a racing shoe, i don't mind that. I think you know that's what I'd want. And I think the...
00:15:48
Speaker
Cielo X1-2 is probably the shoe I've liked the most in terms of the new carbon shoes this year because it is wildly bouncy and now just trimmed right down. And it's it's lighter than the rocket, which is surprising to me.
00:16:00
Speaker
What's it called though, the Cielo X1-2-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-3- they they already have clo x two spikes right so it's but that means when they named the shalllo x one they went yeah all it that i can't see any problems <unk>m only ever going to make one of these right famously But I think the next version is going to be x to I guess, X1 3.0. Because they can't go extra. I mean, brands don't care anymore. i mean, on beyond Cloud Surfer. Outrageous. I didn't even clock it. yeah, Kieran said, oh, yeah, they've gone from the 7 to the 2. Yeah, they changed it. when they
00:16:33
Speaker
When they moved over to the um cloud tech phase and set up, those compressing kind of domino things, they just reset the clock. but But they didn't at the time. That's the problem. and we were sending the reviews saying, this is completely different shoe, right? And it's like, um but but also, they made a rod for their own back because the first five years of it, they didn't put any number. It was just called the new one basically each year, like in a little stylistic, or cool thing. Just put a number in it and stick to it. And if it's different, change the name of the shoe. Done. Easy. It's very simple.
00:17:00
Speaker
I mean, it made havoc with me when the box arrived, because i was just like, for ages, no one was confirming what the shoe actually was. like they Is this like a trick shoe? It can't be the two. That was five years ago. And they also had to cancel after next, didn't they, in between?
00:17:13
Speaker
Yeah. well I mean, we I think we let brands of, because try it's totally Triumph to this. you recall this? Triumph was the Triumph all the way to 17, and then it went to the Triumph ISO 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and then yeah back to Triumph 22. I mean, if you want to create heritage, you could just basically, all the new ones, it's just start at 18. Yeah.
00:17:30
Speaker
It's been around forever. What's the Pegasus I know and I'll remember? Yeah, find out what the Pegasus is up to and just add one year on. It's older than the Pegasus. That's how much people love it.
00:17:41
Speaker
I'm just trying to work out which shoes we've covered or had since the last podcast that have cropped up that are interesting. So as the Ride 18 came out, me and Mike have been testing that. That's quite ah slightly improved version of the previous, but not particularly exciting.
00:17:55
Speaker
They didn't need to massively change anything, did they? I mean, keep... it's it's a good solid shoe and that's it's still more of the same and I think it's going to be ah like a good value kind of affordable a versatile shoe for people that you know it's going to work for a lot of people I think and the Brooks we haven't talked about the Brooks the Brooks Siberian which which pretty good shoe is a pretty good shoe i think uh with you know the the key thing here is being that it's it's got a different you midsole makeup i think it's amazing how that one thing can just make it just a for me personally an infinitely better shoe i think i think brooke's got a lot of things right with the upper and elements of ah of the shoe and the ride and i think just adding that in has just made it more competitive and you know it's and when we're talking about pricing of carbon shoes it's
00:18:41
Speaker
you near the bottom, you know, more affordable. And so I think, yeah it's better from Brooks and just amazing how that one thing I think can really make it a much nicer shoe to run in. Yeah. but It's amazing, but also, i mean, we all knew, right? We all knew that's what happened.
00:18:57
Speaker
ah shoot A shoe, a shoe that I, this is not carbon shoe, but one that surprised me, Tom, which Mike, is deep the 880. Mm, 880, yeah. New Balance. New Balance. I don't normally like this kind of shoe that much, but I really quite like it. I think a lot of brands are really focused on on on this sort of £140 balance shoe at the moment. I think i think i think they've realised that they can't keep just focusing on the expensive ones and then not really bothering about that one. The 880 is a weird shoe in there.
00:19:24
Speaker
it's the I don't know. I think it's probably the sort shoe that people pick up when they go into a running shop because it's a little bit cheaper than the top-level ones. But I've never tried the previous versions. It's never even cropped up like that. that I actually had just, they weirdly, they sent me the v fourteen like about three weeks before I got the 15. And it's a totally different ride. It's like the V14 was like really firm, my blocky, not particularly comfortable. it felt like one of those shoes that, yeah, if you're on a budget and you have to, you'd buy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:55
Speaker
and This one, actually, I think it's sort of transformed. It's actually quite a nice, balanced combination of cushioning. They've got to now because you've got you know you've got the Ride, which is probably last year was probably the best that sort of shoe around that area, you know the comfortable, solid, all-rounder daily shoe. Yeah, Nova Blast. well, Novoblast as well, yeah. But then you've got things like, now you've got the Evo SL and stuff like that coming out, which is really, really cost-effective and competitive. So yeah but brands can't keep releasing, wouldn't be able to keep releasing 130, 140-pound shoes if they're just blocky, not very good shoes. Yeah, yeah. EVOS L feels like really outlandish on the market today. It's kind interesting to see how that how that changes things because you know New Balance kind of did it with the Rebel and the Mac was quite similar, but the EVOS L I think is a bit of a cut. But the genno we should be seeing these phones in that level shoot now because we've had these amazing phones for a while now.
00:20:47
Speaker
Now's the time for them to trickle down to that price, right? yeah But you know you know where this all started, right? If you trace it all back to the big like shift moments. exactly the one yeah but look this is what a shoe should be let's drag the whole market down i think we'll talk about a lot of shoes we like i think one thing we should bunch you i think i think it's worth mentioning is a shoe i'm probably gonna give the poorest review of the entire year which is the sock me endorphin trainer which is a shoe i still do know not what it's for and who it's for and why 200 pounds or 180 yeah yeah it's an extraordinary miss miss price you well i i didn't mind that shoe. which a bit like is Is it better than like the right? i know overlat If it was £110, would have said, very good shoe, absolutely fine. £200, it's very difficult to justify any reason. for i what It's a daily trainer that's not as good as the £140 daily trainer. It's certainly not a super trainer.
00:21:38
Speaker
it doesn't It just doesn't feel very nice to run in as well. Like, yeah, I don't know. like And also, it's not even got a proper outsole. There's so many little things that, like so all like, all your other shoes have a really clear point, a really, you know, design for something. It just feels like a real, yeah, I don't get it.
00:21:51
Speaker
but um But, you know, that's that's a bit balance, isn't it? That Incredi-Run foam is good, but there's a massive wedge of Power-Run foam underneath it. It's a weird mix of foams, though. You're going from really, really soft to really quite firm. They don't use that Power Run foam in anything now, do they? like The only time it's used now is just like a frame for nicer foams on the Tempus, because even the ride is on Power Run Plus and everything, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's really odd.
00:22:11
Speaker
Maybe we've a load left lying about, so they need to add 40 milliliters of it to every train. Right, okay, let's ah let's chat about carbon shoes then.
Review of Brooks Hyperion Elite 4 PB
00:22:29
Speaker
So let's kick this off and start talking about what are the big carbon plate shoes at the moment and which are the ones that we really like. Let's go first. Shall we talk about the Brooks?
00:22:40
Speaker
We've already done a bit of that in the podcast, but the Brooks Hyperion Elite 4 PB, another name that I'm not a fan entirely of because there's just too many bits to it. But the shoe itself, I think, is a huge step on from the last generation. It's obviously got that vastly new and improved midsole phone, the DNA gold, and...
00:22:59
Speaker
Everything else up top is pretty much the same, which I think really worked on the first shoe. So you get the kind of same fit and feel, same comfort around the uppers. And then you've just got a really nicely punchy midsole that I think feels nice and balanced and controlled, but high energy.
00:23:15
Speaker
I can't quite make my mind up yet whether or not i think it's as good as the Metaspeed Sky Paris. I want to do a bit more kind of side-by-side testing for that, but i think it's I think it runs it very close, and it's definitely a shoe that I would happily pick up and race.
00:23:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's finally feels like Brooks have made a shoe that is competitive in that space. Race every distance? Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I did a 22-miler in that shoe. It's comfortable. One of my hardest marathon sessions as well for Seville. and I'm surprised how comfortable it is. I do think it's got that yeah that nice, resilient poppiness to it that really feels fun underfoot. A bit like that Metaspeed or the Puma Deviant Nitro Elite 3.
00:23:49
Speaker
And actually, that means now that we are kind of nearly every brand now has, I think, caught up. Under Armour maybe hasn't. I think maybe their shoe. I don't know. I don't know about their new one, but they're the only ones that haven't really got a carbon racer that's at the similar standard to everyone else. I think Brooks was one of the last big ones to not have it, but now does. And We saw on release of Fantastic Shoe last year, and I think everyone is now yeah know on that bandwagon and performing at quite a high standard.
00:24:12
Speaker
I love that shoe. I think it's great. Yeah. Great. i've not i've not um Actually, I might use it on Sunday for Brighton Half Marathon. But I've only used up to 10k now. So yeah, I wasn't sure how it would do at longer distances. But all right, sounds like it's... I was surprised how comfortable it was. I did genuinely the hardest training session of my life in it as well, which was another one that was up towards 30k. And yeah, really impressed.
00:24:36
Speaker
yeah The other thing about it, is the last thing, certainly, I think even if you even if you're running ragged and your form's not so great, I i think it's it's quite forgiving in terms of the platform as well. So, yeah, I think i think it's one of those that I would rather, if I was risking on a knife edge and the race might go wrong, I think it's shoe that would still see you home, which I think is some of the other shoes that we'll talk about now. I'm not so convinced that's the case, but...
00:24:59
Speaker
I really like the upper as well. um know I hadn't tested the previous Brooks Hyperion Elite. and Is it the same upper as the previous one, did you say, Kieran? Exactly. yeah yeah Really like that upper. Really nice. It'll be interesting to see, basically, though, because they did literally swapped the foams out from the 4 to the 4PB, and Hyperion Elite 5 is going to be built, I guess, more around the foam to take more advantage of it. we'll see That's this ten is this year as well, so we'll see how you know if that's a big upgrade even more.
00:25:23
Speaker
Okay. Mike, I'm guessing I know which shoe you're going to pick for at the moment. I mean, we've had some good shoes in. I think we've talked about the Brooks. They have the Succeeding Endorphin Elite 2, which we'll talk about as well. I've also had the Cielo X1 2.0. And for me, that's been one of the new shoes that I've tested that I've just really liked. I really liked the first shoe.
00:25:45
Speaker
I think my feelings of the first shoe is that It was really enjoyable. I loved it for long runs. I felt like that was a shoe that I would want to run, you know, amount of longer distances in. This shoe, I still think it has that in its locker, but it's definitely more aggressive. It's definitely lighter.
00:26:00
Speaker
I do think I would use this. I'd feel more comfortable using this for shorter distance races compared to the CLO X1. And I think the changes... have made this shoe that's really more in par with the the kind of the best of the best in this category. And I think, no for me, that's a shoe I've enjoyed spending the most time in the kind of last couple of months when you've had these shoes in. And yeah, I think, you Huckers got a really good shoe in its hands. ah Okay.
00:26:24
Speaker
Well, you mentioned the Sockelling Dolphin Elite 2 there. I haven't tried that one yet, but yeah you're getting getting mixed reactions from you guys. Yeah. think we all think it's pretty great in terms of actual speed and how fun it feels, but it's also just a bit wild. It's it it's almost, it's a bit in the Mizuno Wave Rebellion Pro category for me, which is, oh it's definitely fast, but but sure not sure I'd run a long way in it. we' all race it Yeah, it's like I say, a bit more aware of it than other shoes. It's unbelievably soft underneath the foot, and although it does really bounce back and it does direct that bounce forwards,
00:26:56
Speaker
It's not one that I think we all are not sure about cornering in it for that. And yeah, and think Kieran hit the nail on the head. We're talking about in the podcast saying he's, well, you're more aware of the shoe than many others. I think if I was, if I was going to go run like a big U S city marathon where it's just big, long straights of tarmac,
00:27:13
Speaker
I think it would do well. I think if I was going to go and do a twisty tourney, I saw someone do that that crazy Olympic Park half marathon here in London. right so that was The travel map like Mr. Spaghetti or whatever that.
00:27:25
Speaker
Yeah, not so much. Okay, anything else we're missing? Well, we've got I've got the Diodora carbon in guard. Yeah, it looks very similar to the car of carbon, which Mike tested last year, gonna start soon. And then we've also had new Kip run in which is no longer a budget shoe. I couldn't really get on with it. tried very short run before our first run video that Kieran's done that so I can actually match into it. i' had a bit of weird arch pain. I'm trying a different size. But Kieran, you've run in that no longer really budget. So is it going to hit the standards of other shoes?
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i I don't think it quite does. I think it is an improvement. And I think they basically, the phone's been updated, so it's now got a higher percentage of Piva in the overall blend. So it's got more energy to it.
00:28:06
Speaker
But it's got, the upper still feels sort of quite, don't know, you've got sort of plastic, quite sort structured uppers. And there is, it just doesn't feel quite as comfortable as some of the other carbon races you put on still. There's a bit cheapness about that, I think.
00:28:19
Speaker
And then the weirdest thing about it, or the the thing that I think people are finding challenging is, I'm just holding up, you've got a cutout Sort of in the middle here, and this might be what causing me was causing you problem. I've seen other reviewers where that collapses quite a lot.
00:28:30
Speaker
And you almost feel that these two parts are slightly more disconnected because there's almost not enough stiffness in the middle to make it work as as one piece of that collapses. I haven't heard the difference. so much of that myself but I know that is something that other people have reported but to me the ride is more akin to like a super shoe sorry it's like a super trainer rather than a carbon racer it's so it's it's good but doesn't hasn't excelled I definitely noticed the upper as well over one like I think you're putting a lot of money and investment and to try and get these phones right I sort your uppers out because they're uppers the uppers on Kipper and shoes are fine on the training range and most of the training range actually one of them did hurt my colleagues a bit I think, yeah, there's a lot of little things that still quite clicking, but I'm going to try it in my correct size.
00:29:13
Speaker
But what I had was basically a numbness on the eye. I think people had it maybe with the original Alpha Fly, which also had quite a big cutout in that area. I didn't get it on that shoe, but I did notice the plate numbing the outside of one of my feet a bit, even over just a quick 1K test. So I'm hoping that doesn't happen if I get the correct size.
00:29:28
Speaker
By the way, Tom, iszz you've done the Mizuno. I've got the new Mizuno in Wave of Brilliant Pro 3. I haven't had chance to run in it because, again, felt like it was tempting fate just before the still marathon to start testing that. But you like that, Tom? I'm just about to to put up my full review of that.
00:29:41
Speaker
I mean, it's more of the same, really. They've slightly adjusted it It's a slightly different ride, but it's still a massive, ridiculous wedge of foam. It's a fun shoe. I think it's probably better designed now for longer distance running, but it's still the same sort of shoe. You're probably not going to pick it as your...
00:29:57
Speaker
as your top marathon pick um based on how it rides. But I i do enjoy running it. Would you feel confident? I was going to say, would you feel confident in running marathon in it, Tom? I think so. I think previously when i' when I'd used the um Wave Renning Pro 2 for a couple of marath the half marathons, it it it didn't it it's you've run it as well, Nick.
00:30:16
Speaker
yeah It's fun. It doesn't really help you, though. It just sort of like bounces you. But it's not like aggressive. It's not really pushing you forward. Whereas this moves the positioning... of that big dip on the midsole. So actually is a lot it's not some massively great, it could never be that aggressive in that level of like softness in it, but it really does sort of plow you forward and does feel like it's designed for a bit more efficiency now, but it's still it still doesn't feel fast like you know lot of the other shoes.
00:30:43
Speaker
I always found on that ship basically you've got to hit that rocker at exactly the right point. So it means... yeah meat like So actually, with the first two versions, I do on my right... Because it's set quite far back, the and rocker point. So it is kind of almost a rear midfoot towards it. And that's where I land on my right foot, but not on my left foot. So it's a bit more work on my left side almost to land there. And actually, I always felt really with the Hoka Cielo X1 and now the 2.0 is getting a similarly vibrant midfoot bouncy rockered feeling from it, but it's done in a more racy way. It's they done in a way that feels like it's going to be more effective for more people.
00:31:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah think I think this one mill you'll find it different because of the way you you land. For me, it doesn't make much of a difference because I'm just landing a bit before it, but it's a bit further back in this one. so Because if you're not hitting it, then yeah, it's just what you're getting from it. Because I know people who have very pronounced forefoot strike never liked it that much, right? Because you don't get the rocker almost from it. so yeah it's ah But also, it's 60 mils, isn't it? middle day I think at some point, World Athletics probably nip that in the bud, you just think, and go, you can't just measure the shoe at the back where you've cut out the heel.
00:31:41
Speaker
Yeah. let's move on to talking about new things then right so shoes coming up there's been a pretty big one that's been um with you know was already marketing it now nike vaporfly 4 and the street fly which street fly is it street fly 2 so that so that's just be that nike has just uh released the marketing for that and looks interesting looks very interesting It's big, it's big, weird one, the Vaporfly, reducing the stack height.
00:32:10
Speaker
mood of Yeah, I they think that's going to be, I don't know, like, because I, you know, it looked very Alphafly-esque, obviously, when we saw the leaked images, and then actually, no, it is quite a big, part there is a big separation now, because it is 35 millimeters at the heel.
00:32:22
Speaker
It's almost as low as the, I think, the original Vaporfly 4% that. And that's just not a step people are taking. Like, it it makes it really light, but I still think it's only a little bit lighter than some of the shoes out there, like the Metaspeed Sky. And I guess the Adidas Provo one still lighter with a 40mm stack. sos So it's a bold move.
00:32:38
Speaker
um What's the line from Dodgeball? So it's a bold move, let's see it pays off for them. I think Nike's in a tricky position now. As you said earlier, that obviously every brand has got...
00:32:49
Speaker
ah really good carbon plate shoes now. And Nike's got two that are a bit complicated now when you're comparing it with other brands, because previously, obviously, you know, Alphfly was the bigger one, i had it a different ride than the Vaporfly. But I always find Alphfly 3,
00:33:04
Speaker
it feels more like the Vaporfly to me. So it's difficult to have those two shoes if you're not differentiating what they do. Well, feel like the Outfly now is so dominant because it's set a lot of world records, in yeah not just in the thing. it's It's almost like this is the shoe now. And it's quite weird because the Vaporfly was the shoe for so many people. It's it's strange to think they're almost yeah ah downgrading it in a way. like yeah It'd be really interesting to see how it it comes out like because people will want some people will want that lower stack feeling, but At the same time, it's like 100 grams.
00:33:35
Speaker
and not sure I want a lot of with with that With that, there's a lot of people who still wanted what the old Vaporfly did, that kind of sensation. For me, that's I migrated a little bit to the Metaspeed because of that.
00:33:46
Speaker
And to differentiate and have something that quite a different job... Whereas they sort of, I think the three, they just made it a bit soft and a bit, I didn't really see why you'd choose it over the Alpha. but The weird thing about this is that I think if they are if they're going to kind of recapture that, especially their early Vaporfly 4%, that had an 11mm drop. it was a much higher drop. And it actually made this this drop lower.
00:34:04
Speaker
So that's interesting. Because i know people do crave that old Vaporfly 4%. In my mind, i think people just remember that because it felt so good because it was so different from what coming for. But... um i look I mean, it's interesting to have those two different options.
00:34:16
Speaker
And, you know, it is, you know, you're talking a couple of millimeters here and there, it probably won't make that much difference. And if it shows a bit of weight, that's good. But yeah, it does feel like the Alphaly has very much been put front and center now, doesn't it? Okay. Any other shoes coming up?
00:34:27
Speaker
Well, there is, ah think everything else is, nothing else is official, right? Apart from the... No, we're just going have to assume on the on on the other ones. So ASICS. ASICS will come out of something you assume in Metaspeed this year, guess.
00:34:41
Speaker
world championships is in tokyo so that would suggest there'll something i guess launch of that right well it's actually tokyo marathon this weekend so we'll see a whole load of new prototypes probably there yeah yeah yeah uh adidas has already released i think i'm finally getting hold of those but i'm quite excited for this although i've got to be wary of my toes right kieran Yeah, I mean, did you go, ah be interesting, did you go north did you go regular size?
00:35:01
Speaker
Yes, but I'm small for my size, so that always works for me in my, because I'm basically US 9.5, which is what UK 9 is for them, so I've i've just started using US sizing it's getting a bit more complicated. That really stitched me up in the Endorphin Elite 2 because it's such a tight position. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it'd be be interesting to see how that, because if you don't have those problems, I think it's essentially a really good shoe.
00:35:22
Speaker
It's different. I is you know i was sort of mentioning earlier, I feel that shoe is a little bit uncontrolled at times and again I have to engage the brain a little bit about where I'm hitting in the shoe to get the most out of it and not to have some wobbles but it's got good energy from the midsole and then there's just yeah if you have the toe problems which is basically it got it calls me the worst black toenails that I've had of many a runs I've done if you have that problem and you feel it with 20 miles in it's it's going to put you off the shoes a lot if you don't have it I think they're probably a step on from the in the pro 3
00:35:55
Speaker
Someone actually said told me that ah someones they're as soft as the Endorphin Elite 2. Is that true? i don't no No, I wouldn't say so. They're soft. know The way the Elite 2 has sort of, it sometimes feels like it's got different moving parts, right? If you hit different areas of the shoe. I think the Pro 4 still has a bit of that where you can, if you land one way, it might, it feels like it's tilting you a bit from the heel, which has got little cutaway and stuff like that. So it depends how you land and how you experience the shoe in the same way as the Elite. But I don't think it's anywhere near as like, you know, when you put it on in the Elite in your kitchen, it's like... impressive right now You don't get that with a pro 4, I don't think. I think that's one of the ones I've got London Marathon in April and I've PB'd in Seville, so i'm I'm thinking of, I won't just use the Messafee Sky Paris again. So I think the moment the Hocus Yellow X1 2.0 is the one that's leading my pick to wear on race day, but I think the Adios Pro 4 will be up there based on what people have said, including yourself, as long as I don't rip off all my toenails.
00:36:55
Speaker
I think for London, I'm thinking the Brooks, just because I want to what it can do. You've got Good for Age in this year, haven't you? I did, yeah. I was old enough this year. All changes next year with the London spots, doesn't it? We'll have to do our London Marathon podcast again.
00:37:12
Speaker
something yeah um yeah Because the next year, the championship time doesn't guarantee you a championship spot. You might get pushed into Good for Age, and I think then has knock-on effects for Good for Age. Ooh. Yeah.
00:37:23
Speaker
Get out. Stay off our turn, man. I'm not bothered about for It's not going to be stilling me. right. let's ah all let's Let's have some fun.
00:37:33
Speaker
okay so i am going to give you a hypothetical runner who is about to do a race, probably a marathon, um and you need to help them pick the right shoe for what they're trying to do.
Advice for Runners on Marathon Shoes
00:37:48
Speaker
It's Lincolnshire man. He's racing along the sea front. ah these These are going to be fake, but one of them is actually a real man from Lincolnshire. so see if you can guess right first one nice and easy you're looking at a guy he is going to run his first he wants a two and a half hour marathon time that's a big PB for him 10 minute PB what ratio does he get I still say the Meta Speed Sky Paris.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Mike, can you that? Oh, the Puma, maybe? no i kind of like the Puma. But I mean, yeah, I mean, that's probably from a white performance point of view, the ASICs is probably still a little bit ahead.
00:38:25
Speaker
so you're just going all all out performance, not worried too much about anything else other than speed and efficiency. I get that. Oh, the Alphafly 3, if you like the springier, kind of softer feeling, I think that is a bit more like that, the Metaspeed. I think some people will find that better. I think, yeah, it obviously performs very well at a marathon distance, the Alphafly 3. Obviously, I've used the Metaspeed to set two PB, so it's the one I'm going to say.
00:38:49
Speaker
Okay, pretty yeah pretty conclusive decision then. All right, your next one is somebody who is running a their first marathon. They're aiming to get ah over, well, not around four hours they're trying to get. It's the first one they've done. They don't know what time they're going to They've ran, don't know, hour and 50-minute half marathons, so they they they're close to a four-hour marathon.
00:39:10
Speaker
What shoe would you go for then? Carbon shoe? Yeah. Got to be carbon, yeah. Got to be carbon. ti I'd say the SC Elite V4. I think, for me, that's probably the most accessible one for um a mixture of paces, I think.
00:39:25
Speaker
And I think it will give you enough in terms of protection and comfort, but also, I think, a liveness that will will give you that kind of... Feeling that you you can put in a good time in. That's probably, but i would based based on what I've tested and what I think is probably going to work, I think that's probably what i would go with.
00:39:43
Speaker
Okay, that's probably good choice as well. I've been looking through these recently to see if there's any that are slightly more cost effective, and Elite seems to be the one that is a bit discounted in some places. I would say CLLX1 first version, if you can find it in the sale, because it's very expensive full price, but it should be discounted now. And I think that's a really, really good, surprisingly stable, fun, bouncy shoe that works at range of paces. Good choice. That a good choice.
00:40:07
Speaker
Okay, what about... You've got a chap, he is trying to get a three-hour 15 marathon, never run a marathon before. He has... Oh, he's turned all out. It's ballsy. Yeah, it's ballsy. He's training quite a lot, so it's it's it's it's possible. Does he have a confident?
00:40:26
Speaker
Yeah, but... The Puma Fast RB. three gold Doesn't have a lot of money, so he is there's the cost is an issue here. ah This is the real one, isn't it, Tom?
00:40:37
Speaker
This is the real one, obviously, because I don't know the detail of it. Puma, surely. Surely it's a Puma. If you're going full price, yeah, Puma DV8 Nitro Elite 3. The best discounted ones, I think, are the Adios Pro 3 and Vaporfly 3.
00:40:52
Speaker
Okay. Give Kieran a chance. oh I'm just waiting for the question whether it's a Greek runner who wants a brand new... that's a bit out there and in that case it's the you know proto runner one yeah but then you've got to get into the realms of unlimited budgets he's lots of more money than sense and uh he's got a marathon and it's just it's just an entire island there's one big hill if you can imagine it It's like something out a cartoon. He's got to run up and down it. All right. And your last one is somebody who is very cost of, probably aiming for a three hour 30 marathon. The cost is a big issue. So they're not going to, they're going to have like, you know, 120 pounds max to spend.
00:41:36
Speaker
What shoe do they get? They don't have to get a car and play shoe. Still get a carbon player. I'd go on i'd go on you know you use your usual discount websites and I'd try and find the Adios Pro 3. I'd get one off Vinted if you needed to because I think that shoe is so cheap in all the time, it seems, in lots of places.
00:41:52
Speaker
And it's still a really good shoe, effective shoe. You can get the sizing right. I think we all had some slightly dodgy sizing with that. But um I think that's the one that's easiest to find in sales. And that's what I'd do. I wouldn't get an non-carbon shoe. other guys endorphin pro 3 if you can find it if you can find that and you know that would be the one i would go and you if you can find you probably will find it for a good you know a good price and a price that's going to get you something you can train in and something you can definitely have a good time racing it as well Sockney won the brands that are on Amazon as well, which obviously always means bigger discounts. Sockney New Balance carbon shoes occasionally pop up. and The a New Balance SE Elite V3 is often on Amazon reduced as well. I think I'd get the Endorphin Pro 3 like Mike so says ahead of that. I think that's it's a very good choice.
00:42:34
Speaker
Kieran? I might even throw it. I mean, it's my favourite shoe, I'm going to say it, but go and look for a Speed 3 or a Speed 4 if you can get those cheap. I'd have to Speed 4 be on discount now, but Speed 3 maybe. be Sock and Orphan Speed. yeah Yeah. That's on Amazon as well. Yeah, you can find that one. Kieran, I'll get you one if you want.
00:42:49
Speaker
Please go.
00:42:52
Speaker
okay i think that'll do is for uh car and plate shoes on this go amazon though obviously go and check your local running store always check yeah yeah yeah i was trying to work out because obviously one of those is real uh some people have like vite vitality discounts and they get like 50 off at runners knee don't they and yeah they don't have that many carbon shoes in there sometimes no you'd have to go for like the the bog standard option which the big brands that they stuck Also, with eBay and Vinted, you can get this certified... If you're really worried about getting a dodgy shoe off there, you can get this certification process where it gets sent to a third party to verify. i've bought
00:43:25
Speaker
I've bought carbon shoes off eBay before, and I was fine. I've run in the never-nate real deal. And I got my... think I got a pair of Alphaflow Ones for 100 quid, and that is... and they were brand new. So you can definitely find shoes that are brand new on the new. Also, you can find, if you really are on a budget, I went there the other day to try and find a r c Elite V2 for my friends. So you know the RC Elite New Balance, the second one.
00:43:45
Speaker
yeah One of the softest and most comfortable carpentries ever. So yeah, really one that suits people in a certain way. And you can find ones that, yeah, this this model's got 400 miles in it you can have for 20 quid. It's like, well, now if you're really on a budget, one more marathon, maybe that's the way to go, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:59
Speaker
it will it will do it um and so you can really the carbon shoe market is now so awash you can definitely get good deals basically cool okay then well thanks guys on this carbon chat and we'll be back with more chat next month bye this episode of the podcast was presented by tom wheatley nick harris fry kieran alga and mike saw it was produced by tom wheatley the music was by fear of tigers