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Running Shoe Questions Answered: Points of Shoe Episode 5
3.4k Plays6 months ago
In this series from The Run Testers, the team answers your running shoe and tech questions.
This week Tom and Nick talk about using old race shoes for training, smart rings, alternative cushioned cruisers and some of their favourite interval sessions.
For the stretching videos we talk about click here:
Tom's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4ZJXhCmORA
Nick's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of2spyCtUkw
If you have a question about running shoes that you want us to answer on the pod, send us an email to [email protected] with "Points of Shoe" in the subject line.
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:01
Speaker
Hey Tommy from The Rantesters and welcome back to another episode of Points of Shoe. In this episode we answer your questions including things around carbon plate race shoes, super trainers and we talk about our favourite interval sessions. Right let's dive in and do the podcast.
00:00:19
Speaker
Nick, my boy, how are you doing? Well, unexpected. Well, you know, it's Friday night. It's sunny. I wanted to perk you up a little bit. Need to perk up. We just don't know. We're just in a solid 30, 35 minutes of triumph chat. Well, let's dive in there because I've got a bit to talk to you about. We've been talking already.
00:00:39
Speaker
Right, so we've got loads of questions for points of shoot this week, this fortnight, depending on how often we put them out. We've actually got too many, so we're not going to be able to get through all of them, but we're going to see how far we can
The Doorless House: A Humorous Exchange
00:00:51
Speaker
get. I've got a good question before we start, Tom. Go on. If you were selling a house, would you take and remove all the internal doors and keep them?
00:00:59
Speaker
Well, I've actually got quite a, I'm quite close to this sort of this question. I'm guessing you've asked because I've just bought a house and there's no doors. Tom could shout for his entire house. This really carries us beautiful. I was walking around like measuring and going, I need to measure that, measure that, measure that. And I thought, well, I need to measure how far the doors come out because I need to work out where things go. Oh, no doors. So that's an interesting one. When you get like beaded curtains instead, when you embrace it, lean into it, no more doors.
00:01:27
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I did say that I was going to put... I actually said to my girlfriend, I'm going to put a beaded cordon up on the bedroom as a joke, but now it looks like we'll have to. Beautiful. I can't believe that was very funny. Got a good angry text from Tom earlier. They've taken the doors. Honestly, I was in there for about an hour and a half and I hadn't noticed and then suddenly I realised and I was like, I ran around the house looking for the other doors. Very easy to run around there, wasn't it? No door stopping you? I said, there was a lovely breeze going through the place.
00:01:54
Speaker
Right, that's enough of my shortcoming when it comes to buying houses. Let's talk about shoes.
Advice on Beginner Running Shoes
00:02:02
Speaker
So Adam has emailed and said, loving the podcast and YouTube content, question on shoe rotation. So I started running in the summer and I've gotten into it in a big way, going from couch to 5k to running my first half in eight months.
00:02:15
Speaker
Congratulations. Well done. I've used Toca Cliffs 9 and N New Balance 1080v12, but I'd now like to include a speedier shoe. What would your recommendation be for a beginner's first rotation? Something for longer, easy runs like the shoes I've used before, and something for fartlec training and getting into shorter distances, but faster?
00:02:33
Speaker
It's a good question. Clifton is not bad for that honest. So I think if you're, if you're enjoying the Clifton and maybe want a slightly faster feeling, I think my mind does turn to the Hoka Mac six. I really liked the Clifton. I think it's a really good shoe to start with actually. And, um, but I do think the Mac would definitely give you that extra. It's still a comfy shoe for long runs. Um, are you, Tom, what do you think?
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm going to ignore the new balance 1080v12 because you wouldn't progress that into the V13 because that shoes become significantly softer and less versatile than that shoe. The 1080v12 is not the most versatile shoe in the world, but it is a little bit harder, so you get a bit more responsiveness from it. I wouldn't go near there, but if you're looking at the Hockers, I do think the Hawkemak
00:03:18
Speaker
I'm not using the Mach 6, I'm talking about the Mach 5 here, but from what you guys have said, you know, it's a pretty standard progression of the Mach 5. I think if you like the Hawker Clifton 9, that already says to me that you like Hawkers because some people, you know, they don't like Hawkers. So the Mach 6 does seem like a natural progression from that. I haven't tried the Skywood X yet. That's probably too far, isn't it?
00:03:43
Speaker
Yeah, I just don't think that's the kind of shoe I would use if I was starting out and running. It's much heavier than the Clifton, and it is a bit bouncier, but it certainly wouldn't be a shoe I'd go and embrace for fart-elect training compared to the Clifton. I'd probably rather be in the Clifton almost, but some people really like those massive shoes. But if you enjoyed the Clifton, I think the Mac is pretty solid.
00:04:03
Speaker
you know, aggression from that as a speed issue, or you if you wanted to go for it, you go for the Mac X spending a lot more money then to get the play. And I don't know how much extra you get. I would I would if you go in between if you if you if you were relatively do and you were picking up your training, I would go for the Mac.
00:04:20
Speaker
over the Mac X, just because suddenly you're introducing a plate and I don't know if you think that plate serves much of a purpose in that shoe anyway, so.
Racing Flats vs. Modern Shoes
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah, New Balance Rebel is another big favorite for Rebel before. I think that is another really lightweight shoe. You can do a lot of different styles of runs in it, but it is, you know, the reason we've lint towards the Hoka is because you've used a Hoka and enjoyed it. I think that'd probably be the one to try first, at least even, you know, just go try it out in a shop because it's just a nice lightweight shoe. Really good for lots of stuff.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, I do think those two are the best options out there and they're a bit cheaper than some of the sort of super retrainers that are coming out, which you probably need, yeah. No, I wouldn't go straight to those. No. Okay. Right. Okay. I hope that was useful. We've got a question from Ian here who says, a quick question. Thank you very much, Ian. I still have racing flats. I even run a marathon in them. Do you still have any, will any of you, will any of us ever wear them again, even for a short distance or should we just dispose of them right now?
00:05:16
Speaker
I still got some flats, which I use if I ever do track races because I'm never really focusing on track racing. I don't tend to use spikes, which I think are better, obviously, for racing, but because I want to run fast, but also protect my legs, usually because I'm out and training. I use flats for that. Actually, with the new regulations from November, you'll have to have a shoe stack high of under 20 millimeters if you're going to go into any track races. Actually, even some of the flats won't be low enough. It might end up being spikes.
00:05:44
Speaker
You know, I wouldn't use them like they're fun to run in, you know, but they're so light. The, the shoes these days, like the actual full stop, I mean, the Addie, the Essex Metaspeed Sky Paris is genuinely lighter than the set of spikes I have. And that's just absurd. So even if you just want a lightweight feeling shoe, and it's nice sometimes to have that more direct feeling, but I probably about as direct as I go.
00:06:04
Speaker
and enjoy it is more like the Takumi or the ADAS Adios, which is still up upwards of around 33 millimeters of stack height. So I don't really use the flats anymore. I've still got them in case I do turn up at an event for my club to try and help out, but I don't really use them. Tom, I can't imagine you're ever a big flats fan.
00:06:20
Speaker
No, I've never really used flats. I mean, the furthest I go is to Kubi Sen 10, which isn't really a long way off a racing flat. I have tried them before and the only time I would ever use them is 5k max. But even then I would still go for complete max cushion shoe.
00:06:41
Speaker
If Tom ends up below 30 millimeters of stack, he basically just starts scowling. Yeah, I do not look good. I mean, I look a lot taller than I do now, but yeah, no, I mean, I'm not the luck. I would say that, is there anyone that you know that would stick to it? Like, maybe people that have never used complex shoes and are used to using the
00:07:02
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, some people might pull them on once a week for a set of 10 times 400, but I just did that and I enjoy it much more in these modern shoes because they're so light and I'm not craving that. The Brooks Hyperion, the original flat before it became this now the Hyperion temper, essentially, it was a nice shoe. I remember the time thinking, this is really comfy for a fast shoe, but then I got the shoes, the carbon shoes, and it's hard to go back. Okay. All right. Well, I hope that answers that question.
00:07:32
Speaker
Okay. This is a good question. Here it comes in from Andriak25. I can't click through to your profile to see your actual name because I will lose my place
Repurposing Racing Shoes as Trainers
00:07:40
Speaker
in Instagram. Sorry about that. I'm not very good at tech. If your retired racing shoes can be used as super trainers, what is the point of buying actual super trainers? It's a good question because we do a lot of our sessions in just old super shoes, don't we, Tom?
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good question. I do think that, I mean, when we talk about using old cardboard super shoes, super like race shoes as training shoes, we're saying basically that they're losing their ability to be used as race shoes and you're probably not going to want to risk racing a marathon or something in them because you're probably not getting the best benefits out of them.
00:08:12
Speaker
But I still, I still think that if you compare a old cardboard ratio that has lost its magic and it's a bit sort of lost its bounds and stuff, you're still going to get, uh, super shoes generally tend to designed to be a little bit more durable, tend to designed to be used for a little bit more, which is why they're, um, you know, people have them as well as ratios. So I think there's benefits having those. And I think if you get a new pair of super shoes and you get a new pair of car and plate ratios, I think the super shoes are probably going to train as you mean, Tom, you keep saying.
00:08:41
Speaker
Super trainers. Very confusing answer you've just given because you said super shoes the whole time. Just clarify this. So there's super shoes and super trainers. If you buy them at the same time and you're running them the same amount, I think the super trainers are going to last a bit longer and you're probably going to get a little bit more out of them when it comes to sort of durability and things like that.
00:09:00
Speaker
Yeah. I would say with the best super trainers, you're not really, it's not, it's not the same use case. So I only use my old super shoes for far sessions. Like, and I use the best super trainers like the endorphin speed and the Boston, you know, you can use those for everything. So they're, they're a lot more versatile as well, I'd say. So it's just a nice feeling on every run. I think it's what you get from the best of them. I think a lot of them don't do that as well. As a category, I'm a bit down on it because I think a lot of the shoes in it aren't very good and just not overpriced, but the best ones like the endorphin speed, the Boston super last.
00:09:28
Speaker
there's shoes you can use for everything and they always feel great. And that's a bit different to why I use my retired super shoes for, which is just speed sessions. None of them are retired because obviously we barely go through shoes. And then they are a bit more stable and stuff like that. So I always call real world training, which is a bit of a stupid term because all the running is in the real world.
00:09:49
Speaker
my real-world training runs won't be on the pristine courses of races, so I'll be dodging bollards, people, and stuff like that. And a super trainer can be a bit more stable and suitable for that than sometimes super shoes, like going and smashing out a run around Chingford in their Mizuno Wave Rebellion Pro 2 is going to be a bit risky.
00:10:06
Speaker
Oh yeah, big time. That's a good point. You're right, they are designed for different things. And really, when we say you can use your old carbon plate race shoes for training, they don't become training shoes. It's just that you can no longer use them for racing because they've lost the benefits of that. But there are better shoes to wear.
00:10:26
Speaker
for training. I would never use an old Vaporfly for easy runs or anything like that because it just doesn't have the same, it's not the same shoe really. Did see someone walking around in a Vaporfly today. I was wondering where they were going. Have I told you about my mum and Vaporflies? No.
00:10:42
Speaker
So when I used to go home, I used to do races when I went to visit my friends and sometimes I'd get like, well, I had new shoes coming all the time. So what I do is tend to take my old shoes back. Then I didn't have to bring them back down to London when I was coming back. And so when I went home once, there was loads and loads of trainers there. And I was like, Oh, I forgot I had all of these trainers. I don't want them anymore. Because some of these like
00:11:02
Speaker
And I want a pair of our Faithfly ones, and I've got the twos now, two new pairs of twos. So one was, oh, I'll have those. I love those. And so I think you want the, I sort of said, usually these ones, like some, you know, shoes that are, you know, completely comfortable and you can use them. But then I came home one day and she was wearing the Faithfly. It's in two sizes too big for her.
00:11:22
Speaker
Flapping around. Flapping around, just walking around like Sainsbury's. People must have been looking at her thinking, is she a big runner? I've not seen her around at the running club. But I would advise it, to be honest, to go make flies to go shop, sir. No, interesting. And when I bought my first Vape flies, it was from a Nike outlet and it was like Black Friday random. They just didn't have them out and they just told you there's good gym shoes. The only ones in the whole of London you could find.
00:11:52
Speaker
They had no idea what they had. They worked for Nike, so fair play to you, man. Right, this is an interesting question, I suppose. Do you use comfortable shoes? This is from Tamutol on Instagram. Do you use comfortable shoes like Nimbus Invincible Morvi for a tall when you're as fast
Shoe Preferences: Comfort and Style
00:12:08
Speaker
as Nick? I've read it because he's called me fast there, Tom, but I think the point here is-
00:12:13
Speaker
You are on the edit. As always, I say that like I sometimes do the edit. Tom always does the edit. I would say that is not a question of speed. It's a question of taste and running style. I've talked about it before. I've got very high cadence style. I think I'm quite a low impact runner because I shuffle. In general, I just prefer lighter shoes as a result, and I don't feel like I get a massive amount of benefit from all the extra cushion. I really like the invincible one and two. I did like using them for time's time, but
00:12:39
Speaker
If I was building a rotation, my cushion shoe would always be a much more of a kind of daily trainer vibe, whereas Tom, you are obsessed with massive stack shoes. And that, again, is not because you're, you know, it's not because you're much slower than me or even, you know, we're probably quite a similar way. It's just preference really, isn't it?
00:12:54
Speaker
I also think if anyone was to sit and go through our Strava's, they'd probably look at your runs and go, he's predominantly doing faster pace runs. Most of my runs are slow and I don't like wearing shoes that are designed for speed when I'm just jogging along. I just want it to be comfy and I want it to be nice.
00:13:14
Speaker
Basically, when I go for a run, I want to do relatively high mileage, but I want that mileage to feel comfortable and bouncy. I wear the same shoes as you when I'm going out and doing a... Yeah, I suppose it's what the comfort level is. When I get to the level of the Puma Velocity Nitro or the Tri-Flat,
00:13:35
Speaker
going up another level of comfort doesn't really bring much to be. Whereas I still think you feel like an extra benefit from going that extra step in comfort. Yeah. I mean, it's not just comfort. There's shoes that I test that are comfortable. I mean, I still want something else. So I will tend to wear shoes that give me something that's, when I go now and doing an easy run, I might be doing 16k or something. I want that 16k to
00:13:55
Speaker
feel like I'm getting a bit of energy return and stuff on it. I'm not just going to go in the soft issue in the world. I'm still marathon training and things. I think it's just predominantly what the sort of running that you're doing is and how fast you're planning on doing that. Being that you do use the same shoes, it's just that I do tend to veer a little bit more towards the softer one because I'm doing a lot of slow stuff. I do a lot of slow stuff. I'd like to do my slow stuff. The slow stuff is very different than my slow stuff.
00:14:22
Speaker
We've got a question here from the Josephi. This is one, which isn't she related, but I do have a good answer. So I thought, do you have a stretching or yoga team that you'd recommend before and after long runs?
Favorite Stretching Routines
00:14:34
Speaker
I have done the same YouTube video probably over a thousand times, which is Eckhart yoga stretches for runners. It's 20 minutes. I do it after runs, predominantly in the evening. And yeah, I've done it two, three times a week, every week since
00:14:50
Speaker
I think mid-2019. That's really good. Thomas, you've recommended a couple of... I've read this out because you've had a couple of good stretching ones that I've used as well. Yeah. I went through a period where I was getting injured constantly and I had to spend a lot of time, like six to 10 months
00:15:08
Speaker
really doing everything right. So I had to do a lot of stretching, I had to do a lot of weights and things like that. So I did have to, I tried a lot of different stretching videos. I mean, I wouldn't do those stretching videos before running, I'd do them. Yeah, definitely afterwards, I'd say. Afterwards, I've got one which I'll put our videos in the comments of the podcast. The one I use, I think when it comes to running,
00:15:31
Speaker
It's quite, there's some stretches that are really good and they will tick off everything. And this video is 18 minutes, I think, 15 minutes. And I do it every, actually not very good at the moment, but when I am stretching a lot, I will do it like every day. And I don't think you need to have variety in your stretching if you're hitting all the right stretches all the time. So yeah, and it's the one, it just worked for me because like the length of the stretches and everything. It's quite hard one, but- No, you're not pressing anyone, Tom.
00:15:59
Speaker
I'll be warning people if they're going to give it a go. I'm not giving you an easy stretch. Sometimes you see these videos like running stretches and you think, that's not really doing a lot. It's like... Have you said what the video is? I can't remember what it's called. It's technically a minute stretches for runners. So I'll put the link into the description. But I use that. That's the only one I use now. It always hits the right spots and it's got me getting injured basically when I was doing it.
00:16:23
Speaker
So, yeah, one of those ones will do you. We both use them a lot. This, I assume, is from someone you know, Tom. Shakes, 2208. Oh, God. Has Tom Wheatley hit his peak and is now on the decline? It's a good question because it's been a tough first half of the year, but I still think we have more to come from Tom, personally. So, I'm excited to that. Well, good afternoon now because now we've read him out, so I'm going to have to prove it.
00:16:45
Speaker
Right. Barro sinus. Barro sinusus. Barro sinusus. Something like that. Easy for you to say. Yeah, nice one. Sorry, having a clue there. Classic. Most anticipated shoe release 2024. Now, we're halfway through the year here. So, a lot of the most exciting one. Obviously, I was very excited about the people who've lost United Tree 3, the Alpha Fly 3, Metaspeeter guy blindsided us for being absolutely incredible.
00:17:08
Speaker
So shoes that hasn't come out, that I guess would be exciting. I'm very interested to see what Adidas does the rest of the year, basically. Because I don't think they should update the Boston unless they can release a Boston with a better upper or a more comfortable upper, but that could be one thing. But I think it's fine as it is. Basically, we're going to see something like the Adios Pro 4. How much of that is going to take lessons from the Pro Evo 1, which obviously none of us have tested. It's too hard to get hold of. But
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah, are we going to see an Adios Pro 4, which feels a bit like the Metaspeed Sky Paris because it's so lightweight? So yeah, that's probably something I'm quite excited for still. How about you, Tom? So shoes that I know are on the way, which I'm very excited about, are things like the Super Blaster 2, which you've seen a lot about on Instagram. Although, to be honest, looking at that shoe doesn't look particularly different than the previous one. If you're bringing in the Metaspeed Sky Paris' new foam, that'd be pretty exciting, though.
00:17:59
Speaker
hmm well uh so so obviously obviously we talked about this even last a lot over the past year and it's yeah obviously that's exciting for me i'm really really excited about the the new balance balos um yeah you haven't been talking about this balos for a while well it's basically a max cushion shoe that's got like
00:18:18
Speaker
Well, that's what the triumph was. Tom, what happened there? Don't get your hopes up too high. I got excited about the triumph as well. So those two, and then I don't know, you might know more than me about this, but if there's an endorphin elite two, that would excite me. I've heard whispers and I guess if there is something going to come, I think it would probably be basically the Olympics is coming.
00:18:36
Speaker
everyone wanting their latest shoes. So that's why I think Ali, that's what I have to release something for the Olympics, potentially something we will have in a... It might be in the case that we don't really get them as consumer launches, but we should see something for the Olympics, I'd have thought. Well, I've got a couple of PBs in the endorphin elite, and I have major issues with the endorphin elite. Yeah, it's one of the strange issues. I was talking about it today, so you go, yeah, Tom's doing really well in there, and I think it's really fast, but it doesn't really...
00:18:57
Speaker
That's right. I think that that shoe and I think I, I think I did my part run sub 18 PB in it. Um, if, uh, so, but my problem with that shoe is I think it is the shoe I run fastest in, but it's a shoe that I feel find most uncomfortable for running that fast in. So if they can get the comfort, right. And then sort of modify that aggressiveness quite a bit, then, um, I mean, it could be my favorite shoe ever. If they get that right. You got to get the Metz P to go Paris and you've got it. You haven't got the chance to test it yet. Right.
00:19:24
Speaker
I did a part-run 5K, but it was a week after London Marathon. I didn't get the best out of it, but I'm going to do a 10K in it on Sunday. He's still not in any shape though. Anyway, we'll see. Good question for all. Not been training properly. It's all that dashing through the open doors in your house.
00:19:42
Speaker
This is from PE Collin.
Smart Rings for Recovery and Sleep
00:19:45
Speaker
It's an integration because I think we need to think it's not true anymore, but you all wear smart rings. Would it be nice to get your opinion of those as long-term users, as runners? I would say we don't all wear smart rings anymore, really. We wear them when we test them. I don't
00:19:59
Speaker
I think when I first used the Oura Ring, I was very taken with it. I found it really useful. At that time, it felt like the most accurate representation of my recovery and sleep. Now, I do think the watches aren't as accurate, but they are still useful, so I just use Garmin's training readiness, so I'm going to use that kind of thing at all, which I don't tend to use very much. But I think the watches are now, if you're really into that stuff, you can get pretty good info out of them.
00:20:20
Speaker
So I'm not a long-term wearer of the O-ring anymore. I think it is a very good device for what it does. As a runner who's going to have a watch, I think you get a good enough experience from that that I wouldn't go over the spot. And also, of the ones I've tested, the O-ring is the only one I think is good. I have really not been very impressed, but I tested a circular ring that I thought was absolutely dreadful. How about you, Tom? Well, we actually spoke to the other guys about this, about possibly doing a podcast or something about rings. I think there's a bit of a preview if we do do that. For me, I've said it before, I'm not
00:20:49
Speaker
I'm not massively into novel technologies. Whenever these things come out, I'm always a little bit skeptical about how long they can be. Except for cameras, very into cameras. Cameras are tried and tested to be useful. Nothing over heat, eh? Well, yeah, that's...
00:21:05
Speaker
So the so the so the I only I've been tested the ultra human ring and at the time I did find it I liked it but I said I think it's good for certain type of person like my the information that my mum uses from her Fitbit is the same information you get from the ring if you don't know if you don't want to wear a watch you can get the same sort of information from it for me using a guy with Phoenix 7 Pro I'm not getting anything from it that I'm not that I need that
00:21:31
Speaker
that thing to do. So I'm basically wearing two things that did the same thing, but one does it better. Yeah, lots of overlap now, definitely. It wasn't necessarily the case when they first burst onto sleep. It's definitely, if you wear a nice watch in the day, like an analog watch, you pop on one of those rings at night, you get... Yeah. I would also say there's none of them that have convinced me they have any use in the day. They are really good at just sleep training, I think.
00:21:53
Speaker
And then, and then the other thing as well is like, um, you know, if I think they've sort of hit the limit so far with the technology that we can get from rings, because I got old achievement release workout tracking on it, but it just didn't track properly. Uh, just, so I just sent it to you. Oh, my, my, my shops here, Tom. Oh, right. Okay. Well, we can, I'll come back. You won't take long. Just come back. Just come back. No rush. All right.
00:22:28
Speaker
My shop just came, my kids' party is tomorrow, so I just have to unpack a billion unicorn things and ice cream things and a million cheese roll ingredients. We'll leave this in the pod so people know. Yeah, we'll leave the whole gap in as well.
00:22:45
Speaker
Okay, so I was just saying that the Ultramarine ring tried to sort of, or has tried to, I've not tested it for that for months, but they did try to release a sort of workout tracking, and it just didn't have the capacity to really understand what you were doing. So I think there's limitations with the rings. I think there's a place for them, but at the moment, I haven't put it back on for a long time. Yeah, it was the same with Aura when they brought in, they like, throughout the day heart rate tracking, it just didn't really work.
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah, so that's what we'd say about those. Right, got a couple more here. It's like tricky ones. Most breathable daily trainers for summer. Now, I don't know about you, Tom. I very rarely, if ever, have a problem with breathability in shoes in the UK. No, I would say that when it does get hot, there are shoes, and not many of them, that I would go, my feet are really hot in these. Yeah.
00:23:32
Speaker
It doesn't happen very often. Most of the time, if you're going for anything like the Hock and Mack range, if you're going like most of the soccer knee shoes that I've run in, never even notice it, you might get something with like trying to think of a hot shoe. I mean, most of the good ones that we always say are good, they're fine.
00:23:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think the only thing that gets hot occasionally in a good shoe is if they have loads of padding around the back, it can soak up a bit of sweat and the tongue, but the actual front materials on them are always pretty breathable, I think. Yeah, it might be an issue if you're getting maybe older shoes or cheaper shoes that we don't normally cover too much on the channel. You're lower than 70 pound ones, which you don't really test because they have different materials, I couldn't say. But for most of the ones that we cover on the channel, we'd never have any problems with breathability. Yeah, you'd probably have to find a shoe review channel that lives somewhere that's
00:24:18
Speaker
where it being above 20 degrees isn't a reason to comment excitedly. Yeah, if you live in somewhere where it's like 32 degrees all the time, then you might get completely insightful views from those runners. But for us, we're not really best placed to do that. Oh, that shoe is from Hitman Hamilton. No question, sorry. This question is from Karl Gleichmann. If there were any brand you could work with as a shoe engineer, which one would it be?
00:24:48
Speaker
There's two ways of looking at this question, isn't there? One is you think you could massively improve their shoes or you think they make amazing shoes. That's a good point, yeah. And it would be interesting.
00:24:58
Speaker
I think the most exciting one to work for at the moment would either be, I think that's all Nike, just because I think their technologies are really interesting. Yeah, I feel you can make a big difference at Nike because you could just say, stop making all your shoes really heavy, the daily trainers. Yeah, you could be a pretty impressive engineer coming in with some things, some of those brands. But I mean, look, if you look to, I mean, it'd be very exciting to be working in the world of the Pro Evo type stuff at the moment and seeing where that's going.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think I would cry. I like puma a lot. I think be quite cool to be a puner because they're new, they're novel. They're trying lots of fun things with things like the fast R and the fast forwards. That'd be quite interesting. And there's, they seem quite responsive and to move quite quickly. I think that'd probably be the problem over there. But
00:25:43
Speaker
I think we'd be pretty bad at any of these because we're not shoe engineers and don't understand anything, which is better. Interesting you say Puma there because we know Puma, the shoe engineers at Puma relatively well from some trips and it does seem like they have a fun time. I'd probably go for Puma. Yeah. It's just about having fun, which is, yeah, it's the main thing. They seem to spend a lot of time just trying stuff out just for fun. Like, let's do this. Yeah, okay, fine.
00:26:06
Speaker
Has Tom Wheatley hit his peak and is he on the decline? That is a good question. D Morrish, 155. What are the best running shoes for 40-something heavy men with dodgy knees? Tom, you're 40-something, you're not heavy, you don't have dodgy knees, but you are 40, so can you comment?
00:26:23
Speaker
So I'm always a little bit, when these questions come in, and I think there's different ways you could look at it. So if you've got dodgy knees, you might need support, or you might need shoes that are really heavily cushioned because you want to deaden the impact. So, you know, we're not physios, we can't tell you what the shoes are for those. But if I was, if my knees were hurting, I would probably go for the big, soft, stable shoes, like the new balance more V4s, those sorts of things that really sort of deaden the impact.
00:26:52
Speaker
and just avoid anything that's instability or low drop. Yeah. I think when it comes to, yeah, you're right. You've got to try shoes. Find the one that feels right, but you'd probably start with cushion shoes, but not unstable ones, not invincible. I think there is a thing with, if you don't know a lot about shoes and you maybe have
00:27:13
Speaker
aches and pains when you go running, you immediately go, I just need more cushioning. I need loads more cushioning. But that might not be the answer. Because sometimes you buy a shoe that's got a cushioning and the softness makes it a little bit unstable. Or that's not your problem. Your problem is something else which you need to see a physio about, which might be that they go, no, you need a harder shoe. That's, that's your problem. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:27:32
Speaker
So no answer to that. No, just go and speak to someone, please. Quick one here. Jacoby DT, alternative for the Hoka Bondi 8. I would say we prefer all cushion shoes to the Hoka Bondi. Right. So this is interesting though, because I think that this is one where the Hoka Bondi 8, we don't like. We're all pretty much the same sort of weight. Yeah, that's true. So we don't really, it's probably safe to say that
00:27:57
Speaker
the more that the shoes that need a lot more weight to really get the benefit out of them. We don't get that because we're all around like 70 kilograms around and that sort of weight. I think the Haka Bondi 8, I hate that shoe. It doesn't work for me. I'm too light. It feels like I'm running on a brick. But I do think that if you are heavier, you're probably going to get a bit more out of that midsole. And I know some people who do like that shoe because it probably offers a little bit more for them. If you're, you know, really, really heavy and you bang out on the 1080 V13,
00:28:27
Speaker
you're going to really squish that foam and it's going to be too soft. So I think there are people that probably use Hock and Bonday who get the benefits out of it. I just don't think it's a very good shoe. But having said that, there are shoes that things like the, I mean, I'd probably say the, you know, the Sogany Guide would be a comparable shoe to that because it's, even though it's a stability shoe, it's not really like the old Saw Kiainos. It's basically just a shoe that's got a big bit of foam that's quite sturdy, which is essentially what the Bonday is.
00:28:55
Speaker
Yeah, the guide or the Kaino, the newest one is similar. It's a shoe I quite enjoyed running in this neutral runner, and I think it was just a slightly more enjoyable experience than the Bondi, which I just found a bit too tanky. If you want a nice wide shoe like that, then yeah, the Kaino, the guide, good choices, I think. All the shift? The shift's kind of been discontinued, doesn't it, I think. But if you find it, not a bad option. I didn't really like the shift either, so maybe it is like the Bondi. It's exactly the same as the Bondi. You run on it.
00:29:22
Speaker
You thought it was the ground. You're done. You lifted up again. The adi star, you know, the adi star was a bit like that, but for such a big ugly shoe, had a really good rocker. So that is one that I think got overlooked quite a lot, but it was actually, I quite liked it. You know, for a big heavy shoe, I wouldn't really wear, but I did like it. Right. M Evans two. She makes the last one, do we think? Yeah. So let's make it the last one. This is just a general fun one. I think it's your favorite interval session.
00:29:49
Speaker
I actually really like this question. I saw it earlier. Tough one really. I coach poached people and I give them a lot of interval sessions and the one I find that I like the most and they like the most is pyramid sessions because I find that mentally
00:30:06
Speaker
because you are the building something and then go back down it's easier to sort of go looking forward to the next one i'm looking forward to the next one because it's shorter or i look forward to the next one so running a little bit slower than the last one so because it breaks up the the effort level a bit easier mentally to deal with the ones i hate other ones where you're consistently running the same interval
00:30:24
Speaker
over and over again and trying to hit the same pace over and over again. I know you've done these as well, where you do 15 intervals at the same, like a minute or two minutes or something, and all you're thinking is, I've got 12 more of these, I've got 11 more of these, I've got 10 more of these, and it's just really mentally hard to plan those. Well, I like those ones. I know you like those ones, yeah. My favorite probably interval session on track
00:30:50
Speaker
It would be 10 times 1k, I think. The beauty of those is the simplicity and the pacing is very clear. You know what you're doing with it. So for you, where you're very much focused on understanding your pace and everything, that's good for you. But for me, it's like,
00:31:07
Speaker
a K-Rep is also the perfect rep on the track because it's two and a half laps. So by the time, so you're almost at, you do one, and then you go, I've only got one small round really, the last 200 take cares of itself, you know, and you hit the 600, you go, I've only got one lap now. And whereas mile is a slight, I did 10 times one mile during round 20. That's just too far. It's, it's, it's, it's knackers you out, but we don't have very, I do lots of interval sessions, but I don't do all out. I very rare, I've never done an all out 400 meters of my coach, for example. Like you'll know, you would never do that. It's always,
00:31:35
Speaker
you've got to hit a pace, which is a fast pace. You're not going to get very much recovery and you're going to do it again. And you can do it again. Last marathon block I did, I did the 10 times 1k into 10 times 400. And that was quite nice, just really long. But broadly speaking, also the best thing about k-rep is, favorite thing about k-rep is it's the right length for one. It doesn't take that long.
00:31:55
Speaker
You can, if it's a windy day, have the wind at your back three times over the course of the thing, because obviously you're doing one straight three times. So, whereas a mile is even, you know, you can't do that. So, it means in winter marathon training for London Marathon, which I do every year, it's the best session because it's always windy. It's so windy here. You've got to at least on this session, the wind is in my favour for the majority of it.
00:32:18
Speaker
mile reps for 70% of the running population are too far too long. It's just too long a distance and you can't really I mean, I think it's a really good one if you if you train and do miles and you really get to understand the mile distance you really got your pacing and you're most people it's such a hard one I did I think I think there's another part of this as well which is I probably would choose different sessions if I'm on the track or if I'm doing them my favorite session will be different on the track than it is on the road. Yeah on the road I do longer intervals definitely like yeah
00:32:49
Speaker
Pacing something a mile and under on the track is so much easier because on the road, if I've got to run a K at, say, 10K pace, I only go way too quick on the road. On the track, I will go out too quick, but after 200 metres, I'll start adjusting it quite quickly because I don't want the GPS to kill me in a rep. Yeah. Short reps lend themselves very nicely to the track as well because, of course, if you're doing 400 metre reps or 800 metre reps, it's very easy to plan it in your head and go, right, I know what I'm doing.
00:33:18
Speaker
Whereas on the road, it's like 400 metre rep seems a bit weird. I find it's like, it's really weird. And yeah, it's such a short thing. The GPS can be completely nuts. So I like, I like fartlec on the road in the forest, stuff like that. Five, four, three, two, one. Just, you know, you're not really running to a pace. You're hitting things. You're just hitting the effort. That's quite good in the winter when you can't run quick. Anyway, I find, um, 10 times 1k is, is gold. It's, um, it's good.
00:33:43
Speaker
Yeah, because I think anything shorter than 800, I take one session I love. I've only done it once because it's much more of a 5K session. This is a real puker of a session. It's four rounds and the set is basically you do a K and then you jog the 100 meters from the end of the K thing to the next marker. It does markers every 100 meters on the track and do a 400 meter rep.
00:34:07
Speaker
the K reps were faster than 5K pay. So I was doing them, trying to do sub three minutes, then go 100 meter jog and then do a 400 slightly quicker than that. It forced that to that big recovery in between and it's unreal how hard it was. I don't run that kind of flat out stuff very much. So that was quite exciting for me to do. I don't know if I'd want to do it regularly. I did an indoor season where there's a few more flat out reps and it's, they are very exciting and they are fun, but
00:34:33
Speaker
in terms of ones I would actually see myself doing regularly for the rest of my life. 10 times 1K is my favourite. Well, the other thing about doing reps like the 10 times 1K is that if you have to plan it yourself, like sometimes I'll use training peaks and have the session in there, but if you say I went out for a run now and I haven't bothered to plan anything, just doing the same rep over and over again makes it very easy. You don't even need to put it in your watch. You just
00:34:57
Speaker
Yeah, you just do it. That's a nice benefit to it, but if I'm planning, I do like to have a little bit more to it than the same rep. Key of shore recoveries. That's what makes a session fly by. 10 times 1K, you do the 200 metre jog back to the 400 metre line as your recovery in about 90 seconds and then go again.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, you get your session done and you never really get a break. Well, it sounds like we need to delve into interval sessions in more depth in another podcast. Yeah. Keep asking those questions. We like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's more shoe questions we should be doing. It's points of shoe time. It's not points of training. It doesn't even, it doesn't even work. No, that's true. That's true. Well, we do train of thought. We could call the next one. Train thought. No, I'm not sure how it works, mate. Right. That'll do for this week, I think. Yeah. Catch you on the 50 flip. No, that's not, that's not.
00:35:54
Speaker
This episode of the podcast was presented by Tom Wheatley and Nick Harris Fry. It was produced by Nick Harris Fry. The music was by Fear of Tigers.