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Running Shoes Coming Up in 2024 | We Talk About the Shoes We're Expecting to See
2.8k Plays5 months ago
In this episode of the podcast, we discuss some of the shoes we're hoping/expecting to see come up over the next few months. From cushioned favourites to carbon plate race shoes, we talk about our views of the current version and what we want to see in an update.
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
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Transcript
Introduction & Episode Preview
00:00:01
Speaker
Hey, Tommy from The Run Testers, and welcome back to The Run Testers podcast. In this episode, we are going to be taking a look at the shoes we're hoping or expecting to see coming up over the coming months. So these are shoes that we don't necessarily know anything about, but based on the release schedules of the shoe lines, we're hoping we're going to see new versions of. So we're going to be talking a little bit about the current version of the shoe and what we'd hope or expect to see in a new version. Right. Let's dive in and do the podcast.
Post-Marathon Training & Future Plans
00:00:34
Speaker
Evening, gents. How are you doing? Good. Hello. Yeah, really good. Thanks. You? Not bad. Not bad. Last time we did a podcast as a team, we'd all just finished our marathons. Now it's a few weeks later, a month later, a month after London, isn't it? I think it's a month because I've nearly been doing any running for a month. I keep cooking again. Oh, God, it's a month now.
00:00:59
Speaker
So we've probably got slightly different training scenarios at the moment. I know me and Mike's is probably a little bit different than yours, Kieran. You've gone straight from marathons to harder stuff than marathons, basically. I have. I've actually put myself in a bit of a hole in the last couple of weeks. I've been trying to get ready to go and do this
00:01:18
Speaker
Comrade's Uprun which starts with a 35 kilometer hill and because there are no hills I've mainly been doing that on the treadmill and I found a treadmill in my gym that goes to a 30% incline so I've been hitting that and the other day I had two hours on it 1500 meters of climbing and that was two weeks ago and I don't think I've quite recovered for a bit.
00:01:36
Speaker
That sounds horrible. I don't even like getting on a normal treadmill, a flat treadmill. It was brutal and they've positioned, there's only two treadmills that have this kind of incline setting and they've put them both staring at a blank wall. It was the most miserable thing. I mean, it's also great because when I get on that hill for real, at least it's not going to be as brutal as that, but it's terrible. What are you watching while you're on this hell treadmill? Nothing. What, you're just staring at a wall? There's a graph on the big screen that shows you
00:02:04
Speaker
how much elevation you can climb and I was looking at that. Wow. Yeah it's intense but partly I figured like if you can handle that then
00:02:16
Speaker
when you're out there with the crowds in South Africa, and you've got a lot more to see, it's going to, it's going to, I mean, quite seriously, it will be mentally much easier. So it's not a bad thing to have that misery now. So you are training a lot harder than you did for the last one, you were just doing some long runs, weren't you? Quite a few long runs from memory. Yeah, I did, I did a few outdoor
00:02:37
Speaker
sort of hill things where I did like an hour up and down a short hill but because that was mainly downhill I felt like I'd be okay this one I wanted to get a bit more climbing and ideally I'd have loved to have gone somewhere found a nice hill to run on but family time and all of that has made it a bit difficult so yeah the gym it's been
00:02:54
Speaker
And so you've got comrades in four weeks, five weeks. It's three weeks now. Yeah. And then what have you got straight after that? Because that's not your last race, is it? And then a month later, I'm going to go on and do the Berlin Wall 100 again. So in a way, you know, all of this stuff, coaches will probably cost me for this. It probably doesn't follow any physiological
00:03:15
Speaker
you know, correct way of working. But in my head, if I do the 55 miles in the comrades up that big hill, have trained for that, I'll have a month then to kind of do a bit of recovery. And that should be a stepping stone on the way to being able to run on the flat around Berlin for 24 hours. We'll see. We'll try again. All right. Well, from training harder than you did for a marathon to me and Mike.
Running Without Structure & Life Changes
00:03:39
Speaker
Mike, what have you been doing recently?
00:03:42
Speaker
Not much really. I've done a little bit of running. I mean, I'm enjoying the unstructured nature of my running at the moment. It's been great. Now, I mean, obviously finished, I was in London, out of the way, I was kind of traveling a bit. I'm just kind of easy. I was off ill, definitely didn't relax and kind of take it easy after the marathon. So just getting back into my running. I'm going to focus, I think, kind of looking forward to actually getting back and doing my club races. So I got my first one this week, definitely neglected my club over
00:04:11
Speaker
kind of marathon training. I quite like my solo training runs, so it's been nice to get out in the club vest and hopefully do some track stuff and kind of do so. I've got a relay coming up, so yeah, it'll be nice. Then I haven't really committed or wedded myself to doing another marathon.
00:04:28
Speaker
This year, I may try and focus on doing maybe some shorter races, but they might change probably in the next month or so when I start starting, I won't start doing that training again. So by the moment of just enjoying being out and, you know, the weather is actually finally getting nice. So it's best weather, my favorite kind of weather. So yeah, just join the runs. I think probably a bit like you, Tom, no, no real structure. I'm not enjoying the runs. I basically.
00:04:54
Speaker
I finished two marathons and then I always have like a week and a half after a marathon. I just don't bother for a week and a half. I just think it's a healthy way to do it. But as soon as I got to like the end of the second week, I got ill, which pushed me on to three weeks of not training. And then I've just bought a house. So I'm spending most of my time moving back and forth with this house doing renovations. So I went for a run today and I was just like, my fitness has just dropped massively over the course of a month.
00:05:22
Speaker
Should you not be running in between the two properties? Carrying the boxes, yeah. I've done it before because it goes over the downs. Basically, the house is the other side of the downs, so I can run over the downs. It's quite nice to do a weekend, but yeah, this is the first time in
00:05:38
Speaker
a year and a half, I've not had a coach and structured training plan, and I'm really missing it. I think I need that to sort of force me to go out and do the harder sessions, because at the moment, every time I go out, it's just an easy run. And then by the end of it, I'm like, oh, I could have tried harder, but why would I? I'm not training for anything. So as soon as the start of August hits, I'm going to back on the coaching again and training for Valencia. So you're taking some calling out for a coach. Yeah, an easy new coach, yeah.
00:06:06
Speaker
was it hard to get back in after the three weeks off because it's like sometimes I find even you know we run a lot and if you just take you just take that just a little bit too long getting back into that habit again is I did find it hard I think it's tricky because I don't know if because I've been ill as well I came back into it and I went through and I was oh I feel this feels awful like I just lost my fitness I'm not sure if it's because I was unfit or I was just on the tail end of being ill but I am finding it hard like even today I just did 10k and around the park and I stopped a couple of times just thinking oh
00:06:35
Speaker
bothered. When I don't have a coach or like a strict, like when I was training for Chicago and Boston, I had such a strict plan that I'd go out and I'd do my intervals and I'd like knowing that if I didn't do them, I wouldn't get the time I wanted. Now when I go out and I think, well, I'm going to do an interval, I'll start it and go, nah.
00:06:54
Speaker
No need. No need. No thanks. Not for me at the moment. But yeah, there's a side of me that thinks actually that's quite healthy because, you know, when you get to our age, it's good to have a bit of time off and, you know, let the body recover and everything. And I'll see to Jill actually at about 10,000 PBs. And she was obviously, she just had a second kid. So she was saying she's basically detrained, but we'll say it's actually quite nice to go from being detrained and going back up again, because it's a bit more fun, that speed of escalation, isn't it? And getting faster.
00:07:23
Speaker
Yeah, and it's I think you know, like sometimes you know, when you when you feel like that, and you're out on runs, it's, it's happening for a reason, right? Your head's sort of going, nah, can't be asked. And yeah, you got to listen sometimes to that. And Michael knows this when he actually gets to our age, Tom.
00:07:41
Speaker
I mean, you're behind me, but yeah. I am. I'm the same as Tom. Oh no, I'm slightly younger than Tom. He's two years younger than me. Two years younger. Two years is a long time. He looks about seven years younger than me.
First Impressions: New Shoe Reviews
00:07:56
Speaker
Right, so we talk about, let's do a quick update on kit we've been testing at the moment. And I think it's mainly been shoes that we've sort of been doing on the channel. So quick run through, BrooksGhost16, I haven't got the shit. I'm hearing good things from you guys. Yeah, it's a bit of a, I think we've kind of called for this ghost update for a while. I think, you know, I've been lost.
00:08:21
Speaker
a few experiences I've had with the last few ghosts. I mean, they're solid. You can see why they're massively popular, you know, why people still love them. But I think for me, when you compare it to other kind of shoes around that category and that criteria, just doesn't feel that massively memorable. And I think Brooks deciding to put the DNA Loft V3 foam in here, which was obviously in the Glycerin 21. I think that is a move for me that, you know, based on my experience, we've got an initial review
00:08:45
Speaker
on the channel is that just makes it a more enjoyable shoe to run in. I think it's a positive move for Brooks to kind of do this. And I think crucially for me and what I'm seeing in my first run is that I don't think it's going to annoy kind of ghost fans. I still think it's that ghost experience, but I think
00:09:02
Speaker
I think it's just elevating it a little bit and I think it maybe is going to open this shoe, which is a pretty affordable price where a lot of daily trainers are going up in price. I think it's going to make it, I think, a more likeable shoe for a lot more runners as well. Yeah, I mean, I had my first run out in here today and I was
00:09:17
Speaker
I'd done the Hackney half yesterday and I'd played football on Saturday which is a terrible mistake doing that back to back. I've never been more sore from a half marathon and I really needed something that was just going to be comfortable, be nicely cushioned but not too much.
00:09:34
Speaker
and just feel easy and kind of smooth and all of those things. And I think this is my first run in a Ghost. Maybe I had them sort of way back when, but first run certainly for a few years. I'm really surprised by the show. I really liked it. I think it's got a really good balance to it.
00:09:49
Speaker
And I think it's going to have a nice versatility to it. With Mike on that, I think the foam that we saw in the glycerin bringing that over gives it a little bit of pop as well. There's a bunch of shoes that have come out that I think you just look at. They're very easy to run in. It's got a beautiful step in comfort as well. And yeah, you know what? Some shoes, I looked at it today. I was thinking, oh, God, please, please, please let this be a nice shoe to run in because my legs really needed something.
00:10:16
Speaker
and it just really helped today on that. So, yeah, first signs are good. I'm quite looking forward to seeing how quick you can move in it. All right. Well, from cushioned daily shoes to super shoes, we've got a video up on the channel, the first run of the Under Armour Velocity Elite 2. Bit of a funny shoe, well, the original Velocity Elite was a bit of a polarizing shoe, I think. Some people did actually quite like that shoe, but I think from a lot of people,
00:10:44
Speaker
it was quite far removed from what people had come to expect from can't play super shoes, mainly from the bounds, mainly from the way it is sort of the transition of the shoe. Have you both tried, you've not tried this yet, Mike, have you? I've not been out in it yet, no. Right, okay. What did you think? I think it's a step on. I think it's much better than the original. I'm still not 100% convinced that it's made that big leap to be up there with the best super shoes. I thought it had some good energy. I thought it was quite an interesting ride. It feels
00:11:11
Speaker
It feels quite, to me, it feels quite heavily rocket and you're kind of relying quite a lot on that kind of roll through for the energy of it, rather than, you know, on some of the Adios Pro 3 or the Alpha Fly where you've sort of feeling that spring back from the phone. This doesn't quite have that energy, but there's quite a pronounced rocker on it. You feel it when you first put the shoe on. And that makes it a slightly different ride to a lot of the other super shoes I found.
00:11:33
Speaker
I think in short, I put it in, from what I've done so far, I need to do some more in it. It's another one where I think it's an okay sort of competent shoe, but I don't think it's going to set the world on fire. And each time Under Armour does this thing where they sort of come a bit close, but everyone else has jumped on a bit, they need to just make that bigger leap across. And I think you see that across their whole range of shoes, actually.
00:11:56
Speaker
I think I could see people enjoying running in it, but I don't think it'd be my first choice for sure. No, I did enjoy it and I get a weird feel from the shoe. When I put it on, I did feel like it was nippy. I felt like I could go fast in it. Something about the midsole structure just doesn't feel... I can't remember what the word would be. It's not wobbly, but it does feel like it's got a strange structure at the bottom of the shoe and I can't quite hit a rhythm with that shoe.
00:12:21
Speaker
Do you get like, so sometimes I've got, it's almost like you've got like a knot of foam right under the ball of the foot. And it's like, once you're tilted forward and using, it's almost like using that rock and you're up on your toes, that sort of goes away. But if you land any flatter or further back, it's a bit, it's a bit like, I don't know, yeah, it's a bit strange. Yeah, yeah, I do get that. Yeah, it can feel a bit awkward. It feels fine for a bit and suddenly you hit it in a certain way and you're like, oh, a bit weird. I wasn't expecting that.
00:12:45
Speaker
Yeah. All right. So a couple more. So I have been testing the North Face Summit Vectiv Pro 2. I think a few of us tried the original version of that, which we all quite liked as a trail shoe that's got carbon plate in it and everything.
00:13:01
Speaker
But for me, I think the original was just a solid all-right shoe. I could use it quite a lot. It's comfortable. It wasn't really a shoe designed for tricky terrains and stuff. It's sort of those hard mountain paths and compact paths. I know the new one, I think the new one is an upgrade on it. So they have redesigned some of it. And one of the big things they did was moved the plate down further into the midsole. Because one of the things people said is that
00:13:28
Speaker
It felt a little bit too firm because the plate was so close to the foot. They've moved out there now, so there's more mid-sulfine between the carbon plate and the foot, which you do notice. It does feel a bit softer. It's getting more like the Tecton X and Tecton X2 to me. I found it very comfortable to wear over the... I did a racing, actually, and it was very comfortable. Really enjoyed it the first time I'd worn it, and I felt really good straight away.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, I liked it. I'm looking forward to doing some more running in it. What you've tested recently, that's what you had a question about. It's the name that it's got five names, the Adidas, Aggravitch, no, the Adidas Terrex, Aggravitch, Speed, Ultra, correct? Mike, am I right? I think that's correct. You got the right order.
00:14:17
Speaker
So I'm going to call it the, um, the Aggravitch Speed Ultra from now on. That shoe, yeah, I know Nick had that out in Chamonix, didn't he, for a sort of early test, like months and months back. And then they've landed for us to sort of give them a test here. So Nick has put them to the test over some sort of more challenging terrain steeper. I went out and did a, uh,
00:14:37
Speaker
30 mile ultra in them on very much more runnable stuff here in London, Richmond Park, some Thames paths, you know, it's runnable, it was pretty dry and pretty solid, sort of compact kind of green trails. And actually, I thought they were brilliant for that. I'm using fresh out of the box for that run test. And on that runnable stuff, you know what you've basically got, it feels like a road shoe.
00:15:00
Speaker
you know, runs like that way. And I think in a situation where you know, pretty secure kind of foot placement, and you're not dealing with anything that's going to fire you off in random directions, I think this is a really good shoe. And I always sort of say this more for the UK audience back here, but there's a bunch of races in the UK that you think these shoes would be great to run.
00:15:18
Speaker
Thames Path 100 miler where it's all flat, it's all pretty runnable, often hard-baked. This shoe gives you lots of protection but gives you so much energy. It's got a nice wide toe box, super comfortable. I can't speak for how it might perform when you're hurtling downhill and back into Chamonix. Trying to be tight, twisty corners.
00:15:38
Speaker
For that, if you're on trails, you know, all those things like the Race to the Stones, the Race to the King, all of that series of tamer, easier running, flatter, I think this would be a really good shoot. Nice. Okay. And then just lastly, we've got the video up on the Merrill Moore flight of... Well, it will be up by now. The Merrill Moore flight. What is this shoot? Yeah. And it's quite cheap, isn't it?
00:16:03
Speaker
I mean, yeah, it's a hundred pounds. So it's a hundred pound sort of road to trail shoe, very much road DNA taken to the trail. So it's one of those that when you put it on it can feel like a road shoe and it's got three more lugs. It actually has got two sets of lugs. I think there's three mils and two and a half in two different patterns designed so that you can run on the road fine without being too sticky and then get to the trail and have a bit of grit.
00:16:26
Speaker
A nice big stack. It's light. It's actually almost as light as the Skyfire 2, so it's got that kind of racy feel. And again, it's just a very well-balanced shoe actually. And at the price point, I think this is a good shoe. If you're a newcomer to trail running, or you are just going from sort of doing road sections
00:16:45
Speaker
with a little bit of trail and again tamer trail all you're doing park runs where you've got mixed sort of terrain on yours i think this would be a good versatile shoe to throw into that mix it's a very easy transition shoe from
00:16:58
Speaker
road over to trail that I think will be accommodating for a lot of runners. It's fairly basic overall, but £100, I think it represents pretty good value. Well, I said it before, Meryl makes some very comfortable, solid trail shoes. But they've always found in Meryl that they've got a big audience. Obviously, a lot of people love Meryl and stick with Meryl all the time, but they've never been the most exciting shoe in the world. And you seem to
00:17:24
Speaker
find them sitting below the newer shoes from Nike and stuff and people don't tend to look at them, it's people who are more used to wearing them and rely on them. But maybe, I think I see a turning point with Meryl these days where they seem to be trying more stuff out and it's... May we need some more love? Give some more love to Meryl.
00:17:45
Speaker
Yeah, that one in the Agility Peak 5 have been two, yeah, two shoes that have really surprised me out of their stable. And it's kind of definitely changed my attitude towards Meryl as a brand and what they're doing. So nice.
Upcoming Shoe Releases & Speculations
00:17:59
Speaker
All right, well, let's, let's talk about some 2024 possible running shoes coming up.
00:18:14
Speaker
Well, it is, we're almost halfway through the year now and we've seen quite a lot of interesting shoes crop up. Some really good ones, some that were probably a bit of a disappointment for us, but we have another seven months left of the year and there's a lot of shoes that might appear. So in this video, we're gonna talk through some of the shoes that we know are coming or we've heard might be coming and some shoes that we'd expect to be coming.
00:18:42
Speaker
and I'm going to be going through these shoes and we're going to talk about our views on the shoe, if it exists already, and what we hope to see in the development of a new version of that shoe if it appears in 2024. That sound clear? Very clear.
00:19:00
Speaker
Let's do it. Good, because I came up with this concept quite quickly and I wasn't sure if it actually worked. All right, so I have been through various forums, I have been through websites talking about shoes that we are expected to come up over the next year. Some of them have been confirmed, some of them probably haven't been confirmed. So all of these shoes I should clarify, we don't know anything about these shoes and anything that we're suggesting about them is based purely on our knowledge of the existing shoe and what we'd like to see from these shoes.
00:19:28
Speaker
We don't have any extra knowledge about what's going to happen with these shoes. We've not had any information sent to us. This is purely the stuff that we think might happen. All right, so let's start with shoe that, well, over the past year, it's changed quite a lot. So the A6 Gel Keano 31, the A6 Gel Keano 30 came out.
00:19:49
Speaker
last year and it saw some massive developments on the previous versions of the shoe. What are your views on the A6 Giacchiano range? I think it was a step in the right direction. In terms of where stability shoes are going, where support shoes are going, I think it was a
00:20:05
Speaker
a big shoe in terms of that category, in terms of how it delivered that support. And I think, you know, the Kano has always been, you know, it's a kind of shoe line and that's strange. And I think in terms of what it did with the 30 and where it took it, I think it's almost going to dictate or kind of influence what we're going to see from other
00:20:24
Speaker
support shoes going forward, particularly it's kind of what we're seeing in terms of the people or brands delivering that kind of stability in shoes now, just in a very different way to what we're traditionally used to. So it's a bit more subtle, right? That was the idea. And I think it's sort of a fascinating idea that we're going to get everybody arguably needs a little bit of stability in some way or other, and we're going to see shoe manufacturers trying to deliver stability that works with us and in a more subtle way.
00:20:53
Speaker
And I think the Kaino tried to hit that. I found it to the point where I don't really need a stability shoe and there are some stability shoes I'll run in and I find them quite interruptive if that's the right word. And the Kaino I found quite easy to run in as a non-stability runner.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah, the Keanu 30 was basically a massive shift because previously the Keanu's been sort of the big daddy of full-on support. You sort of associated the older Keanu's with having that really thick plasticky medial post in it where you really know you've got a stability shoe on. But Keanu 30 was an interesting development because it felt a bit softer. It felt like a normal shoe. It's actually getting more like the Nimbus or shoes like that. So to be honest, I wouldn't expect
00:21:37
Speaker
Any big changes from the Gelkino 31? I think they've probably pushed it as far as they can at the moment. They might modify the foam slightly, but I think we're going to see a pretty similar thing to what we saw with the Gelnimbus 25 and 26, where they probably play around with it a bit, but I'm not expecting any major advancements in the new version.
00:21:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think the key thing is, like you kind of said, like that gel represented how an asset delivered that stability and support. And now it's about delivering it from different areas of the shoe. And I think ultimately it's about enhancing how it's delivering that structure support from the different areas and the different elements of the shoe. I think more effectively and still offering a ride that actually, as Kieran said, that it can work or be usable for someone that maybe doesn't need that additional sort of
00:22:24
Speaker
more aggressive, maybe more kind of prominent support and a shoe.
00:22:29
Speaker
Okay, well, let's move on to next year, and this is one that I'm sure you're gonna have many views on, the Hawker Rocket X3. I know that's a few, you've tested this, haven't you, Kieran? Yeah, yeah, I like it. I mean, I've been a fan. I know some people aren't, but whenever I've raced in it and I've wanted to go short, half marathons, those kind of things, I've found it nice and lively and it's, yeah, and punchy and...
00:22:55
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like it's a very easy shoe to go and do those distances in. It delivers. Whether or not it's up there with the best sort of super shoes, I don't know, but it does have this kind of unique kind of profile, which is quite direct. It's quite, again, reliant on a rocker.
00:23:12
Speaker
and I've always found it to be quite energetic and it kind of meets, it fits my kind of style of running where I want to feel a bit of ground contact as well sometimes and feel like I'm sort of doing some of the work. But whether or not they, I think my guess that the thing throughout there is whether or not in the changes, they look at everyone else who's got perhaps a bigger stack and it's a bit more kind of trampoline-y and those kind of things and they go, actually, we need to do more of that, I don't know. Well, they are trying a bit more of that stuff, aren't they, at the moment, Mike?
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the thing. I mean, obviously, from the previous rockets, a radical change in terms of that shoe and what we have now, the Rocket X2. And I think if we look at shoes that have launched since the Rocket X2, so things like the Seattle X1, the Skyward X, where they're not necessarily the same shoe, but in terms of playing around or in terms of how those mid-sole makeups are.
00:24:01
Speaker
I think it feels for me with this Yellow X1 and the Rocket X2, it's almost like a vapor fly, alpha fly thing. So whether they'll go down that direction with this shoe or the next version of the shoe, I'm not entirely sure. I think they might try to retain it as it is and maybe just try to slightly improve the experience because it's a nice and light shoe.
00:24:18
Speaker
It's got a lovely enjoyable ride in it. I kind of personally think maybe I would probably kind of max out kind of half marathon distance in it for racing. But I think there obviously are people that have run marathons in it. So I think it's about tweaking what has got because I think in terms of what we've seen the shoes since then, it's definitely being a bit, I would say a bit more adventurous in terms of what it's doing with its mid soles and in general with the kind of make of some of its kind of more race focused kind of fasting faster centric kind of shoes. I think they're going to stick more
00:24:48
Speaker
more fame in it. It's just as simple as that I think because I think they made a good choice moving it from the X to the X2 but I think they're going to say well one of the big things that people said about it is it's not as bouncy as some of the big issues out there so that would be my expectation. The thing is that that's something that you know Mike's right you know people sort of
00:25:11
Speaker
equate that shoe it feels a lot of people sort of said it feels a little bit more like the old vapor fly and that was a positive comment and that the vapor fly 3 for some people me I find it lost a little bit of that sort of really sort of stiff and slightly direct kind of edge to it so it'd be interesting I hope that I hope kind of hope they don't
00:25:29
Speaker
I hope they sort of, yeah, maybe that sells more shoes if they do, but. All right, let's talk about, from race shoe to a super trainer, the new balance super comp trainer V3. Do you remember the V2? I remember the V2. I mean, I didn't absolutely love that shoe. I thought I would. I thought I would. And I mean, I've been post kind of us kind of reviewing it on the channel where I have been back out in it, trying to
00:25:55
Speaker
I felt like it was a shoe that should work for me but it just didn't and I think there was probably other shoes that have come out around the new balance kind of range around that shoe that I think probably worked a bit better for those types of runs that I think I would turn to for the SE Trainer VT. So I think for the V3 I think I would want to see it more in the kind of ilk of something like the Superblast where I think there's a bit of a better balance in terms of that overall weight but also in terms of that versatility that you're going to get from that shoe.
00:26:24
Speaker
I think I also I didn't feel like I got that from the from the SE Trainer V2 and I was really hoping I would because I felt like it would be best you know perfectly built for that but it didn't quite work out and I think for the SE Trainer V3 I'm hoping that it it sits a little bit more in that kind of versatile super trainer kind of mold which actually you're going to want to run a mixture of you know runs and paces in it and it will kind of deliver a really nice experience.
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I think for me, the way that I would classify the V2 is that it was a little bit of a sloppy super trainer for me. It was comfortable. You could do a few different things in it, but it sat in this weird realm where I wouldn't use it for easy day runs because I had easy day shoes that I prefer.
00:27:12
Speaker
I wouldn't use it for faster training sessions because I just had more responsive, faster shoes that did it better. So I never really found a use for that shoe. It was definitely a proven on the original version, which was very bulky and just wasn't great for long sessions. But yeah, I'd like to see a little bit more pop in it and a little bit more like it's moving towards like the speed four or something like that, where you can use it for faster stuff.
00:27:36
Speaker
I think what we've seen as well is that you've got something like the 1080 V13 and you've got something like the Rebel V4, and those two shoes, if you combine those into an SE Trainer V3 and give you something that you can ease off but also pick the pace up in, then it would be the ultimate, it would be a great shoe because we've loved those two shoes, and I think an amalgamation of those two shoes would make the ideal for an SE Trainer. You haven't tried it, have you, Karen? No. Actually, I didn't try either of the generations, so yeah.
00:28:04
Speaker
Not sure you don't like those shoes based on your preferences. Alright, this is an exciting one if it is actually ever going to be released. Nike Pegasus Turbo 4. So the previous version of this is probably not technically the previous version that you would expect. That was the Nike Peg Turbo Next Nature.
00:28:26
Speaker
which is a shoe that used a reformed ZoomX foam, recycled ZoomX foam. It was not in any way a progression of the original Nike Turbo, but this new one, the Nike Pegasus Turbo 4, it would be very, very nice if it was a progression of that. Was it Nike Turbo 1 and 2? They were when they came out.
00:28:50
Speaker
What are your views on these shoes and what are you hoping from these? I love those shoes. I mean, I love the turbos. Remember the pink stripe down the middle, sort of the tongue, that's the right shoe, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, they were just, I mean, they were lovely. I think that was a shoe that you could do so many different runs in as well. And they were nice and snappy. They were sort of, they felt super light, really energetic, but not overly aggressive in a crazy way. They just, they were just easy. And I thought sort of effortless, good comfort of the foot.
00:29:19
Speaker
They ticked so many boxes. I found myself running lots and lots of miles in those shoes across a range of paces. It's always been a question about why they killed them off in the first place. I know some conspiracy theorists thought that they were too good.
00:29:34
Speaker
They were too versatile. So they weren't going to differentiate in the marks and other shoes. This kind of multi-talented shoe stopped them selling other shoes. But I think if they're going to bring it back, just bring it back as it was. Well, it is very certain. So I actually did do, well, I think last year I did a versus because I've still got a fairly new, if I use it twice, the original Nike Peg Turbo 2. And I went out for running it and it doesn't hold up against, I mean, there's probably an element of it that it was a couple of years old, but
00:30:05
Speaker
compared to things like the Sockney-Dawkinspeed 3 and 4, it just didn't have the same feel as those shoes. So I think they will have to do something to it to make it match up to those. Even if you put it up against something like the Alkomak 5, I haven't tested the 6, it just didn't feel like it had as much in it as those shoes. So they're definitely going to need to do something with it.
00:30:26
Speaker
whether that's just the progression of how Zoom X is these days, but you know, who knows, they might even put like a plate in it or something to match up with things like the speed for. Was it like meeting an ex, Tom? An old ex. I tested it during Berlin training, so I was pretty fit. I was doing a lot of like intervals and stuff and I ran in it and I thought this just feels like a normal shoe.
00:30:47
Speaker
I was expecting so much. I was so excited to put it on because I forgot I had them. It was at the bottom of my drawer. I still got those. I banged them out. Although the ones were nicer than the twos from my memory. I think the twos did lose a bit from the original one. The original one, I got loads of my first ever 40 min... I think that's what I wore for my first ever 40 10K with you actually.
00:31:09
Speaker
Yeah, so I love that shoe, but I think the two did lose a bit. But yeah, it wasn't as enjoyable as I was hoping. And that's it. Can they recreate the magic? I mean, I don't know. Back then, obviously, I think a lot of people loved them, and maybe things have moved on now, and maybe they shouldn't bring it back. I don't know.
00:31:26
Speaker
I really like the geometry of it. I quite like the overall shape of the shoe and everything. It was another one where it was unfussy when you put it on and the platform felt just right in terms of the width and the weight. Can they recreate that with new phones? It's risky, isn't it? It's risky because it's not as good as people remember. To be honest, it's a bit of an unfair comparison these days because people are looking back and going, it's the best shoe ever. But to bring the new one out and people go, nope, don't like it because I saw what happened with the next nature, even though it wasn't really a direct development.
00:31:56
Speaker
all right here's a good one for you i think mike you're the only one who's tested the original one is a6 magic speed 4 yeah i mean this is a shoe that every iteration i think clearly attics has listened and tried to you know really take on board what this shoe needs to be and
00:32:11
Speaker
you know, it's very much in that speedy daily trainer criteria. And I think from the first shoe, I think it was a good shoe, but it was a lot it needs to do massively approved in the second version. And then I think the third version, we got something that, you know, is what we wanted in terms of that kind of partner shoe for kind of, kind of like, you know, top tier racing shoes that it has. And you could do your speed, you know, speed sessions in that shoe. And it was a really nice experience. So I think,
00:32:39
Speaker
You know, when you're looking what Essex has done in terms of the Metaphy Sky Paris, we all kind of love that on the channel. We're all kind of running that. You know, we know we can we can see what Essex can do in terms of speed shoes and those faster shoes. And I think with the Magic Speed 4, I am expecting big things because I think, you know, also seeing in terms of what they're doing with the Super Blast and that being a
00:33:00
Speaker
kind of a surprise hit for their Essex as well. They've got these shoes around that kind of quick up tempo kind of category where I think like having something that's going to be a lot closer to things like the endorphin speed than that six where I think the magic speed three was a quick shoe maybe
00:33:16
Speaker
quite, maybe not quite there in terms of the versatility of things like the Speed 4 and the Max 6, but I think there's all the pull marks there that Asics can make this a standout kind of, you know, up-tempo daily trainer shoe, like the ones, to match the ones that you really like. Yeah, it's tricky we'll know with Asics now, because they're of course launching the Super Blast 2 at some point, and so they're starting to get a couple of shoes that are difficult to choose between, although I don't know what the price would be for the, I'm assuming the price of the Super Blast 2 when it comes out would be
00:33:44
Speaker
quite pricey, but the magic speed was a bit cheaper, isn't it? Or it was, the magic speed through. Now, I was going to say that's the thing, you know, that affordability point of view as well, having those shoes at that price point around that things like the New Balance Rebel V4 is, but it's good value, so hopefully they can maintain that for when they decide to launch the update to that shoe.
00:34:11
Speaker
Okay, what about, this is going to be an area of debate, Nike Invincible 4. It's a shoe that over the past few versions, I think the first time it came out, everyone was so excited because the concept was quite weird, like, you know, Zumex foam, you know, massive daily.
00:34:27
Speaker
Max Cushion's shoe and then since then sort of got less and less excited as new versions come out. What do we want to see from the Nike Invincible 4? I don't know if I should say anything about this. No, we need Jane on this.
00:34:42
Speaker
It's a funny show because I've talked to a lot of people about it. And you know, there's so many people will be like, I absolutely love that they'll tell me I love this shoe. This is one of my favorite shoes ever. And for certain group of runners, it's, it's got that kind of following. It's got like a bit of a cult following. They really, really love it. And I just couldn't get along with it. And I
00:34:59
Speaker
One thing I wanted to see change, I just found for start that the big kind of wide, it was almost like when you look down, it was like a sort of hexagonal platform. It was just too wide and I felt like it was too interruptive. It kind of interfered with my sort of natural gate and it was a bit too clumpy and a bit too clunky.
00:35:17
Speaker
But I think all of those things that I don't like about it that I would like to see improved are the things that other people really love about it. So yeah, I don't know. I think that's another one where they probably shouldn't change too much. I think it's one of those in danger that you might actually alienate the people who are very, very, very fond of that shoe.
00:35:33
Speaker
and it does a great job as it is. There are some shoes that you think, actually, should you just leave it as is? Maybe that's one of them. I think that the Invincible has got a bit of an identity crisis over its development. When it first came out, the whole purpose of that shoe was just to be ridiculously soft and bouncy and enjoyable and fun.
00:35:52
Speaker
But obviously, when you do that, you end up with a lack of stability. So you start adding more stability elements in and trying to beef up the shoe a little bit so that it's a bit more stable. So in reality, it's become this weird mix of the two. And I want it to be softer. I just want it to go as soft as possible with a little bit of bounce in it, because that's essentially what I use that shoe for, really slow runs. I just want to go out and...
00:36:14
Speaker
to a 510k and just enjoy it but what it's doing now is sort of it's not being a particularly good soft cushion shoe and it's not being a particularly good versatile daily shoe so I think it's got to make a call which way it wants to go although if it stays the same I think it's going to struggle.
00:36:31
Speaker
Yeah, and I think the best way to I kind of think about it is that when we're having this conversation between ourselves about the shoe that the category that it sits in it, I kind of forget about it, I kind of forget about it, because I think there are other shoes that can do that job in a slightly better way. And I think ultimately, that's what Nike has a problem with, you know, there's that thing they've kind of tempered
00:36:51
Speaker
what the first version really offered and I think as it's evolved it's maybe not evolved but maybe in the right way and I think there's every opportunity for them to make this I think a shoot and when you see what's happening in this space with these types of shoots and they've got you know they've got an amazing phone there so they can absolutely they're absolutely capable of doing that and yeah I'm
00:37:12
Speaker
I feel like this would be the ideal shoe for me, but it's just not a shoe that has worked its way into my rotation. And I know loads of people love it, but I think there's, yeah, I think you're right. I think maybe it's a bit of identity crisis. Maybe they need to just kind of strip things back, get back to what the Invincible really, you know, really stood out for. I'd love to know how many they've sold, because I bet you it's a popular shoe. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, just because people want Nike and it's got a massive stack in it. So you can go into a shop and go, that's for me.
00:37:40
Speaker
like do you I mean does it you know the shoe that sort of jumps to mine is like does it where does it fit up alongside something in other things that maybe moved it on and people you thinking about the skyward X or whatever is that and my
00:37:52
Speaker
No, I've not used Skydex, but I sincerely doubt it's comparable with that shoe. I think you're looking at things like the 10A TV 13. That's where it should be. And I feel like that's the category we should be talking more about. But I feel like we haven't really. And I think there's obviously reasons.
00:38:12
Speaker
for that. Like you said, Tom, I think they almost need to simplify things and be very clear about what that shoe is about. People will still buy it, but maybe just enhance the experience of what you should get from that shoe is what needs to happen. It's a very expensive shoe for a shoe that's got difficulty explaining what it does and why you'd buy it. From the Invincible to a shoe that I'm very excited about, New Balance More V5,
00:38:37
Speaker
Now, I'm quite worried about this because three and four are like two of my favorite shoes. The foam, the Fresh Foam, Fresh Foam X in that shoe. But basically, the Nubance More V3, when I tested that, I wasn't expecting to like it because I didn't like the 1080 V11 and 12 because that foam in it is just really firm. I just didn't get anything from it. It wasn't comfortable. It wasn't soft. It was just like a balance foam that had a little bit of firmness in it.
00:39:03
Speaker
And as a result, it was just like a nothing shoe. Like it didn't really deliver. It wasn't a great daily shoe that you could do versatile training. It wasn't particularly cushioned, but the New Balance More V3 has the same foam in it. Cause it's got loads more foam in it. It just works. It's just a bit, it just feels a bit softer. And there's a New Balance More V4, it's pretty much the same. Love that shoe. I'm worried that the New Balance More V5 is going to use the same foam as 1080 V13 and it's going to be way too soft cause it's, cause it's a max stack shoe. So I'm quite worried about,
00:39:29
Speaker
what's going to happen with the more V5? I'm going to keep my mouth quiet because maybe I might have known a little bit about it. Right. Okay. Moving on. Moving on. All right. Let's do one more. So how about we discuss that? Okay. Right. Final shoe. And this is one that
00:39:50
Speaker
I would definitely say it's due a big update. It's the Saucony Kinvara Pro II. Oh wow, okay. What do you, what do you, I can't, I can't, but Keirah, you tell this one because I think you had a different view to me. Yeah. What can I say about the Kinvara Pro? I, my abiding memory of this shoe when we tested it, I actually took it out and as one of three shoes that I used to run the Berlin Wall 100s,
00:40:17
Speaker
Myler last year and I chose it primarily because of the big sort of soft cushion stack that I thought would offer some comfort overall and I used it as the middle shoe I think for about 30 miles. I can't remember my first shoe I think I've gone from one of the on shoes and actually yeah
00:40:39
Speaker
The noticeable sort of change when I used that, it was too soft. I found it sort of too dragged me down. I didn't get on with it at all. I kind of think I found it okay, but a bit too much shoe on the foot overall.
00:40:57
Speaker
And again, I don't know, I'm not quite sure where it sits. I think there are other shoes within the range that can do its job better at easier pace and for a range of runs with versatility. So yeah, I wish I'd taken a different shoe for that middle section, I think is what I'm saying. Go on, Mike. I mean, it was that kind of max stack super trainer that wasn't much of it.
00:41:20
Speaker
I spoke to someone recently who did Brighton Mountain and that was the choice that they went for and I was like I mean that wasn't true I would have recommended it but I remember just take it out for a track session expecting it to and I just remember getting to the end of that session and it just feeling so heavy and so
00:41:40
Speaker
And I think that obviously these Mac Stack kind of super trainers are here, you know, we've got the Prime X2, Skyward X, you know, so there are shoes and there are examples of it being executed really well. I think this shoe can work. It just, I think it needs a lot of work. And I think that, you know,
00:41:56
Speaker
they would have listened to the feedback. And I think that to have something that can part better partner or be an equivalent or alternative to things like the speed for those lighter, less lowest that cushion compared to something like Kinvara Pro, I think there's room for it. It definitely needed work. It almost back to the drawing board for me because it wasn't really a Kinvara and it really wasn't a shoe that stood out for the right reasons.
00:42:25
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think there's any issue that's confused me more over the past couple of years than the Canvara Pro. I don't know why it's called Canvara. I don't know why, what it was designed for. I don't know why they used that foam in it. The only thing I can think of with the Canvara Pro is that, I mean, talked about this with Nick on the video the other day, we're all pretty much the same weight. So maybe there's something about that foam that I'm just not getting from it. But to me, it just felt like a big clunky clog.
00:42:52
Speaker
And I raced in it, I just didn't get anything wrong with it. So out of all these shoes we've discussed, I think this is the one that's probably likely to see the biggest changes based on what they did before. And if they want to make it more like a super blast or something like that, they've got a lot of work to do to make it that versatile shoe that's fun to run easy and fast sessions in.
Conclusion & Future Speculations
00:43:12
Speaker
All right, I think that'll do us for now. Actually, I've got loads more so we can probably do another podcast on these if people actually listen to this. But I will just caveat again, all the stuff we've spoken about in this video, we don't know anything about. So all of this is purely conjecture based on our knowledge of the existing shoes and what we want to expect from these shoes. So as soon as we know about them, as soon as we can talk about these shoes in the future, we will let you know on the channel. But at the moment, we're just shooting from the hip, basically. Right. Catch you guys later.
00:43:43
Speaker
See you later. This episode of the podcast was presented by Tom Wheatley, Kiran Alga and Mike Saw. It was produced by Tom Wheatley. The music was by Fear of Tigers.