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Global March to Gaza: Lessons from Egypt with Engy Sarhan
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Egyptian researcher and activist Engy Sarhan joins this month’s podcast to unpack the recent Global March to Gaza—offering critiques and urgent lessons for the international solidarity movement with Palestine.
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Transcript
Gaza as a Moral Compass
00:00:00
Speaker
I think when we say Gaza is our moral compass, it's not really an empty slogan. And I think one can always ask, is the action that I'm doing centering the dignity of the Palestinians?
00:00:11
Speaker
I think there's a responsibility in in how we have to act and how we have to relate to Palestinians. And I think that the question of dignity becomes central to this. And I think secondary to this or also next to this would be, will my action put someone else in danger if they don't have the same privileges as me?
00:00:35
Speaker
From Ashabaka, the Palestinian Policy Network, I am Yara Hawari, and this is Rethinking Palestine.
The 2025 Global March to Gaza
00:00:46
Speaker
In mid-June 2025, thousands of international solidarity activists planned to march from Al-Ariş in the Egyptian Sinai to the Rafah border in Gaza, in what was dubbed the Global March to Gaza.
00:00:58
Speaker
The participants came from over 80 countries, many from Europe, and they included individual activists, solidarity groups and trade unions. As expected, the participants barely made it out of Cairo before they were stopped by the Egyptian authorities.
00:01:15
Speaker
They were sent back to the Egyptian capital, some were detained and others forcibly deported. It's clear that the organisers of the march knew they wouldn't reach Ra'ar, and many activists have since stressed that the aim was to highlight the complicity of the Egyptian regime in the blockade and to put some kind of international pressure on it.
00:01:36
Speaker
Now this is not the first attempt to breach the blockade on Gaza. Over the last nearly 18 years there have been various attempts by sea and land and with them have come many discussions about the effectiveness and importance of such actions.
00:01:49
Speaker
Indeed though these actions often capture some media attention especially if public figures are involved like the recent case of Greta Thunberg and provide symbolic support, they rarely make changes to the material reality on the ground.
00:02:02
Speaker
But is this what is expected of international solidarity? To only participate in actions that have a real life effect, or is there room for symbolic support?
Interview with NG Sarhan
00:02:10
Speaker
To discuss this with me on this episode of Rethinking Palestine is NG Sarhan.
00:02:16
Speaker
NG is a researcher pursuing a master's degree in modern Middle Eastern studies at the University of Oxford. She's also one of the five founding members of Collective, a platform for resource sharing among artists, writers and curators in Egypt and the Arab world.
00:02:30
Speaker
Inji, thank you for joining me on this episode of Rethinking Palestine. Thank you for having me and thank you for opening the space to discuss this at this point in time. NG, you recently published an article with the Egyptian media platform, Mada Masar, that asked some critical questions about mobilizations, such as the global march to Gaza.
00:02:50
Speaker
Perhaps you can start off by telling us a bit about what unfolded and contextualize it in the history of international attempts at solidarity with Gaza in Egypt. I think I want to start by saying that the the text is kind of a piece of reflection on recent events that happened through discussions with other people in the same time. Many people around me were having these discussions, but there was no one place in which we can funnel down these ideas. and I think um this is where the push to write came.
00:03:19
Speaker
The other thing that might be important to mention here is that I've seen a lot of people tweet around the time. I think it's something to the effect of what you said um in your introduction, as expected, that it was crushed. As expected, people were drawing a lot of parallels between this march to Gaza and a similar march that took place in 2009.
00:03:39
Speaker
Back in 2009, I was very young, so I don't have a vivid memory of what that meant. So I had to kind of like turn into a research and like try to read this moment backwards from the position of
Critique of Activism Strategies
00:03:50
Speaker
today.
00:03:50
Speaker
And I found a very comprehensive article on the Electronic Intifada that was published early January 2010. So it was shortly after the events of this i attempt has happened.
00:04:01
Speaker
And what I could tell from article Article is also something that I discussed with a friend is that history is a distorted mirror. So much of what was in that article could be applied to today's context if you just swat some dates.
00:04:17
Speaker
And I think it made me think, since we have a precedent, since we have this and an indecent memory, 2009 is not that far away from today. um It made me question a lot about what was happening in 2025 and how it relates to 2009 and how we can see both as a continuity, not as moments of rupture, actually.
00:04:38
Speaker
And I think I mentioned this in the article, but I think from both instances, what's happening today and what I read in the 2009... um article You can see similar tactics. You can see soft detention. You can see the focus on media attention, the focus on it becoming a spectacle of protest and containment, um whereas visibility is prioritized over strategic planning.
00:05:01
Speaker
It also ah raised a lot of concerns on performative activism and the privilege of mobility. Like you really start to think who has the privilege to just drop everything, get a ticket to Cairo and then just go, not knowing what is the end goal of this action.
00:05:19
Speaker
And whether directly or indirectly, I think it ended up distracting media and public discourse from the ongoing genocidal violence inside Gaza to what was what was actually happening with protesters on the other side of the border or like slightly
Challenges in Egyptian Activism
00:05:34
Speaker
outside.
00:05:34
Speaker
I think people don't understand the context in Egypt. People were sometimes texting me just because i'm Egyptian. It was really random. Like they would be saying something like, have you heard of this? And again, I was also very, um not hesitant, but doubtful that this would ever go through.
00:05:52
Speaker
And remember sometimes I would just screenshot the map of Egypt and draw a line over the Suez Canal. And I can tell them, like, this is this would be as far as one can go if you try to attempt a similar type of protest. Just because of, like, my experience of traveling into Sinai, i you know, how many checkpoints one has to go through if you're just going to Sharm el-Sheikh or...
00:06:11
Speaker
Dahab or somewhere else for vacation, let alone, like we're talking about Northern Sinai when you have a direct border with Gaza. So I think people lack this basic understanding just because they look at the map and they think they can understand how to get there from point A to B, not knowing what sorts of obstacles are between points A and B.
00:06:32
Speaker
And yeah, I think this is what I can say um to that first point, that it was really helpful for me to read the events of today through the lens of what happened in 2009, see how it was probably similar intent, probably similar scale.
00:06:47
Speaker
the The only difference is that back then there was a lot of support from the French embassy. ah for example, which is absent today, um even though the the embassy technique was invoked at some points, people were like, call your embassies, ask them to come and defend you. But we all know the position of those embassies today. and We all know how complicit they are. And we all know that they really don't care.
00:07:08
Speaker
And the second thing is to look at what happened in 2009 and apply it to today and then understand how when the initial intention of protest fails, how those groups resort to symbolic actions, probably in Cairo, not knowing what would this um lead into.
00:07:31
Speaker
And by this I mean hunger strikes, vigils and flash mobs and all all sorts of these actions. Angie, something you said um really struck with me that visibility was prioritized over strategic planning.
00:07:47
Speaker
Can you unpack that a little bit more? If you go to their social media channels, official social media channels, which in this place and time um act as like an official ah means of understanding what this campaign is about, what you would see and what is hyper-visible, and I think we can here speak only to what we see. I i cannot speak to what's happening internally.
00:08:10
Speaker
What you see is a lot of quasi-influencers that are being brought to Cairo to launch what would be called in that instance awareness campaigns.
00:08:22
Speaker
They want to draw international attention to what's happening in Gaza and then by being in Cairo and trying to break the siege, they are redirecting this international awareness or international media attention.
00:08:35
Speaker
But I think something here that we can, there needs to be a pushback on the lack of awareness. Gaza is not absent from the news lines. It's been present in the news lines for the last two years.
00:08:47
Speaker
So this technique applies to other struggles, other causes where media stops ah reporting on them, where media um avoids reporting on them.
00:08:59
Speaker
I don't think this is the case with with Gaza. And I think it's really, there's something very flattening in applying this blanket claim that there's there hasn't been enough media coverage or there's no media coverage. So we need to use the media tactic.
Logistics and Symbolic Protests
00:09:13
Speaker
So there was this. And I think also the idea of gathering masses, focusing on numbers. where 1,400 activists from 80 countries and all and whatnot, all of these things become, it becomes a currency in which you can basically present something.
00:09:30
Speaker
So I would say the focus was on this rather than material aid. We don't know if there was any aid involved. As far as I know, I've seen tweets of people stuck on the first or the second checkpoint to Ismailia.
00:09:43
Speaker
with no water and sending out emergency appeals for people to bring water and food trucks from Cairo. So what what is your role in that situation? I thought you were going there to deliver aid. I thought you were going there to help break the siege.
00:09:56
Speaker
There's also something in, like when you read the official statements on the website of the marsh, it feels like a safari program. We are going to arrive in Cairo on June 12th or 13th.
00:10:07
Speaker
And then we're going to go by bus to Al-Aris. And then from that point onwards, we're going march for three days. There was even a program of marching between 7 and 10 a.m. and then a break because I don't think um anyone can tolerate walking in the sun and the heat.
00:10:23
Speaker
and then continue marching again between five and nine. And then after that, there's a sit-in staged outside the Rafah border on the Egyptian side. The sit-in was supposed to last three days. And then there was like the last line in the program, return to Cairo and leave.
00:10:39
Speaker
So I think something about this was, for me, very disturbing to read because it reads like a recreational program or something that I would sign up to if I want to go like on tourism or something. And for me, something didn't sit right with this.
00:10:51
Speaker
And it made me just question, what is the point? What is the actual goal? what what is What is behind all of this? What what are we going to do if we if we gather a lot of people and we sit outside the Rafah Borde for three days? What is this going to do to people on the other side?
00:11:06
Speaker
Also thinking of the ethic and weight of what does it mean when I'm sitting outside the borders of a place that has been actively bombed by Israel for the last almost two years.
00:11:20
Speaker
If you're enjoying this podcast, please visit our website al-shabaka.org where you will find more Palestinian policy analysis and where you can join our mailing list and donate to support our work.
00:11:33
Speaker
I think at best it kind of highlights the sort of naivety of a lot of these activists. But I think that also takes away, assuming that this is just naivety, takes away agency from these people.
00:11:44
Speaker
Because as you said, this isn't about raising ha awareness. The genocide in Gaza has been live streamed and covered by the people that are facing the genocide themselves for the last nearly two years.
00:12:00
Speaker
And so it's no longer a question about narrative. I think the Palestinians and the Palestinian struggle for liberation has won the narrative in this moment. I think there is no question about genocide and the mass horror that is being inflicted upon the the Palestinian people. We have the literal proof of that on our phones every day, every minute, every second.
00:12:22
Speaker
you know, the last thing you said about sort of the lack of forward thinking in terms of basic logistics, it just strikes me that this put a lot of undue stress on local activists, ah people who would rightly be concerned about international comrades and people coming to their country um and being placed in unsafe situations.
00:12:46
Speaker
I'm just going to answer the second part of your question first. I would agree that this happened, but again, when I read the 2009 article, something very striking, like one of the last paragraphs was talking about the absence of Egyptian representation.
00:13:02
Speaker
It said in previous, and I'm um'm quoting here, in previous incidents during the Gaza Freedom March, except for the syndicate of journalists, the relative absence of Egyptian participation and solidarity with the Gaza Freedom March could have been interpreted by delegates as the result of either severe political repression or political indifference.
00:13:21
Speaker
But anti-government Egyptian activists pointed out that the Gaza freedom organizers failed to reach out to them and establish coordination. In fact, Egyptian labor unions, students, and organizations of civil society have a long history of struggle in the streets of Cairo and other towns for democratic rights in the face of the overwhelming force of the state apparatus.
00:13:42
Speaker
Six full days of political demonstrations in Cairo by a large group of visiting internationals is without historical precedent. And I think it's really important to understand that this moment in 2009, you had active labor unions, you had active students unions, you had active political organizations. And even then, it's mentioned in the article, even then, no one was contacted, no one was reached out So I think there's a little bit of arrogance in kind of thinking that you can just go to this new terrain, new context without really doing any basic reading, basic research, trying to understand and thinking that you can just survive there.
00:14:22
Speaker
And I think the other thing is that similarly this time around, people sounded the alarm. I've seen reports online of, or articles online asking activists to, like, when you come to Cairo, at this point, like, they're not even trying to stop them, but they're trying to kind of do damage control. So it said, when you come to Cairo, try to stay away from mutual aid networks.
00:14:41
Speaker
Because if you try to approach them, you risk exposing them. So I think there was a lot of advice or a lot of crucial context being provided that in the end was dismissed.
00:14:53
Speaker
Was dismissed because people thought they could do better or that they are doing action for the sake of action without really thinking of consequences.
Symbolic vs Direct Actions
00:15:01
Speaker
And because also there's the privilege of exit.
00:15:04
Speaker
Basically, I can go and leave. Or that they really don't have an understanding of what it means to... um engage with the police in Egypt, for example. Maybe their experience with engaging with the police is one of, for example, the UK or Germany, where basically you have some sort of police clash, they escort you to a police station, and then maybe they do fingerprints, maybe...
00:15:30
Speaker
someone is sent and they do police station support and then maximum you spend the evening in a police station and then you release no consequences or like no major consequences, um more or less. I think there's a discrepancy here that might have not um been taken into account and in that instance. ah also agree that it's not really about changing the narrative.
00:15:50
Speaker
I saw once in a protest a banner that was very silly, but it said so many things. It said no one can say they didn't know. So by this point, it's not really about kind of bring into light something that is off the table.
00:16:02
Speaker
It's more or less about either using similar tactics to what people have been used to before without really realizing how um the situation on the ground has changed.
00:16:13
Speaker
And I think a lot of the critique that was directed at people asking international activists not to hail on Egypt was like, What do you want us to do? Do nothing. And the response to so this was not do nothing, but at the same time, you have to maybe think of what you should target that would have the most um efficient material change for people on the ground.
00:16:38
Speaker
So basically, if you live in a country that directly finances the genocide, you have to aim at directing ah changing policy, not in changing narrative policies. If you live somewhere close to a weapons factory, then you might have to do something in relation to that weapons factory as opposed to thinking of you know a symbolic action that might bring into light the suffering of the Palestinian people.
00:17:01
Speaker
think just to sum it up in short, people sometimes invoke... sensational parts of the reality of the genocide to have some sort of urgency. So they would say, we need to do this because the children of Gaza are starving.
00:17:16
Speaker
But my response to this is, if you really care about the starving children of Gaza, start engaging more seriously with mutual aid, fundraise so that they can have access to flour.
00:17:27
Speaker
People sometimes say, we're hearing the calls of the Palestinians. Yes, but the Palestinians, when they call on people, they ask that you surround embassies, you know, Zionist embassies, U.S. embassies, um buildings or institutions of true political power that have actually the authority and the possibility to overturn something, the possibility to change the material ah conditions on the ground with the speed that matches the scale of the carnage.
00:17:59
Speaker
So I think, again, like people tend to conflate a lot what they invoke in order to achieve what without really that being questioned. And I think part of this is an outcome of social media where people prioritize these symbolic, flashy, Instagrammable protests over real political work, which, to be honest, is is more often than not very tedious, very monotonous, very thankless, not, you know, Instagrammable at all, but is is necessary and and vital in building a movement.
European Activists' Role
00:18:31
Speaker
And the fact that many of these activists and and and figures came from the global north and came from Europe is really significant.
00:18:39
Speaker
There was some research published the other day that contrary to what a lot of people think, the EU is actually the biggest investor in Israel, not America, the EU. um And so there is actually a lot of work for these people to be doing at home.
00:18:54
Speaker
And in many cases, I think it's it's more important to be engaged in that kind of work rather than the the symbolic work protest But I want to um bring us to one of the talking points that a lot of the organisers or the people involved used um as a sort of, you know, acknowledging the passport privilege and the and the white privilege of of participants and insisting that that can be used as a mechanism for for leverage. So in other words, the logic was that they could do things that local activists wanted.
00:19:25
Speaker
or, you know, Arab activists could not do, or at least they would be afforded more safety um than local activists. So what do you think about that kind of defense or arguments?
00:19:38
Speaker
In the article, I mentioned white privilege a couple of times, but I think in in that specific instance, I would prefer to stick more to passport privilege because whiteness here is more a construct in relation to proximity of power structures rather than race or skin complexion. And I think it's also important because maybe this is something that I missed while writing that article that Some of the participants in the march were also organizers that are coming from either Arab countries or from Western countries. So it means that they have a certain passport privilege.
00:20:09
Speaker
And I think one feedback that I got was that I put everyone in the same basket. And this is something that I kind of acknowledge doing, whether willingly or not. But I think in the same way that I demand a different differentiated approach when I write in the article that we should have the clear-eyed distinction between state policy and popular will, I think I would like to use the same um framework specifically and allow it to lend itself to separate organizers from participants.
00:20:35
Speaker
And I think this is really important in any kind of um organizing structure where the question of accountability kind of comes forward. So again, what I wrote about was mostly that which was hypervisibility.
00:20:49
Speaker
And then going into that, I think there was a lot of, like you said, ah lot of people thought that their privilege would afford them access. safety to do certain actions where their Arab, Egyptian or Palestinian counterparts could not be afforded the same privileges.
Principled Action and Accountability
00:21:07
Speaker
But I think also it's important to think what's at stake. A lot of the people who would engage in similar acts of protest are probably acting on white guilt.
00:21:20
Speaker
are probably acting with a certain level of white fragility and are probably acting with a certain level of white saviorism. And I think there's something to be said about going into solidarity movements for identity building.
00:21:33
Speaker
There's a lot of privilege in choosing which struggles do you want to support. And also like in turn, which struggles you can just decide to walk away from. I've met a lot of people in my life who will say something like, I think I will prioritize working on the climate struggle for the next period.
00:21:50
Speaker
um But for others, this is this is a part of the reality. This is not something that they can afford actually to walk away from even if they wanted to. and And I think this is what sets apart a lot of considerations in which people would take in that position, but also how one can differently.
00:22:10
Speaker
while being principled. I understand that the response is a lot of outrage and it's very understandable to be outraged by also the helplessness. But at the same time, taking any action in in that specific context, taking any action because you want to break the siege or stop the genocide and all of these things, A, it should be understood within the larger struggle for liberation.
00:22:34
Speaker
um And then the second thing is that it shouldn't be so that you feel good. so that you you're able to ease your conscience. ah um So again, the the the outrage itself is not enough.
00:22:47
Speaker
And doing action for the sake of action is not enough because at the end of the day, it's not going to be able to change anything. It's not going to be able to it's not going to be able for one to become closer to the end goal of liberation.
00:23:00
Speaker
And at the same time, it ends up being something that takes so much space. It takes actually so much media attention and probably redirects it from what is actually happening in Gaza.
00:23:11
Speaker
And I don't think it ends up benefiting anyone. And with that said, and I think with what we discussed on the march that took place in 2009, I still don't quite understand why people are acting surprised.
00:23:22
Speaker
I don't think there is anything to be surprised about. Does that mean we stop trying? I'm not sure, but I think it requires that one tries with a little bit of humility, with understanding, with strategizing.
00:23:36
Speaker
Angie, I want to just quickly, if you allow me to read out a quote from the article that I thought was really impactful and sort of um encapsulates what you have just been talking about.
00:23:48
Speaker
you You wrote, there's something deeply seductive about collective movement, about being part of a movement that feels historic. But that feeling too can be a kind of privilege.
00:23:59
Speaker
to experience solidarity as a high without having to live its aftermath. What does it mean to hold that emotion alongside a politics of responsibility? And I think that really sums up what you have just been saying, that inevitably there will be tensions ah in any solidarity movement.
00:24:18
Speaker
and And I think that applies not only to white allies in the movement, but to those who also have have passport privilege. And I think it's it's something to reflect on. But one of the the things, and you really hit the nail on the head, is that this has been happening before, that we have had these kinds of issues come up over many years. And they you there seems to be a sort of a lack of ah reflectivity, ah a lack of strategic thinking,
00:24:45
Speaker
and really a lack of learning from from history. 2009 was not so long ago. Probably remember it a bit better than you do. But it was a time where there could have been a lot of lessons learned.
00:24:58
Speaker
No, I really agree with kind of the lessons learned, you know, what is the what are the precedents, what can we do differently, um how we can approach things in a way that would actually allow to work. Because at the end of the day, like, I would have loved to see this happen.
00:25:11
Speaker
In reality, would have been great. But what I saw was a lot of probably misplaced excitement, you know, There is, again, like I said, there's something deeply seductive about not only a collective movement, but also a proximity to an event that might seem historical. you know Everyone will remember the Gaza genocide 10 years from now.
00:25:32
Speaker
So in that moment, I might think that I want to be one of those activists who went there, you know put my body on the line and tried to break the siege, even if i ended up not being able to do that, but I would have liked to be part of that.
00:25:45
Speaker
So I think there is something in... this point of proximity, ah but then also the attempt to do something against the backdrop of helplessness without really kind of knowing for sure that this is going to bear fruit.
Freedom Flotilla: Lessons and Aid
00:26:00
Speaker
So this week, there's another flotilla on its way to Gaza, um carrying on board a group of international activists. And of course, freedom flotillas have been long part of the the struggle in attempting to break the siege on Gaza.
00:26:15
Speaker
Do you have any thoughts about this particular action? I think like when I wrote the article, I mentioned that I ah remember opening the article with saying that there's three different international protest actions and that each has its own calculus, basically, of strategy and visibility and privilege.
00:26:35
Speaker
I think there's a lot to be said about the Freedom Flotilla, specifically the Madeleine, which relied mostly on high-profile figures. more than any of the other older missions.
00:26:46
Speaker
But I think there's something of value, maybe, when you think of it as a form of sustained protest over a large number of years. I think I read somewhere way that this is the 37th mission so far. So I think there's a lot of learning from past mistakes. It relies on redoing, you know? so So when one of those missions fail, it doesn't mean that it's a fail, like a definite...
00:27:13
Speaker
it means that it's a new space opened up for the next one and so on. And I think something can be of value in in this attempt and or like this strategy, basically.
00:27:23
Speaker
The other thing is that I think they also rely so much on the the aspect of raising awareness, which is not something that I necessarily see as, I don't think it's needed at this point in time.
00:27:35
Speaker
But on the other hand, they also deliver aid. And I think There is, historically speaking, the flotilla has reached Gaza a couple of times, as far as I understand, delivering aid at different points in time.
00:27:46
Speaker
And also the 2010 Freedom Flotilla, it was called the Mavi Marmar. I think it ended up with diet direct confrontations and violent clashes with the Israeli military. So I think The type of confrontation that it invokes is completely different from the march, for example.
00:28:03
Speaker
And I think people go there also knowing what's at stake. So I might not agree with the framing per se, or maybe smaller tactics, but I think there is something of value or something that could be learned from understanding how something can work as a sustained form of protest as opposed to a one-off.
00:28:21
Speaker
And if it doesn't play out the way it was ah planned, then we move on with our lives and don't revisit it again. yeah and I think in all fairness as well, like we are living in an unprecedented moment. I mean, the genocide is a for all of us is a moment of unprecedented horror.
Strategic Long-term Activism
00:28:37
Speaker
It's something that I think none of us could have quite imagined or expected, this this level of ah violence.
00:28:44
Speaker
ah And so I think it's, you know, on the one hand, it is understandable that people are trying to do anything and and everything. But it is precisely because this moment in the Palestinian struggle for liberation is so horrific that necessitates us to to slow down and to think more collectively and to think about, you know, what have we learned to think about strategy over sort of these very flashy feel-good tactics.
00:29:11
Speaker
And that's not, we've said this time and time again throughout this podcast, it's not to say that people come with bad intentions, but I think people don't acknowledge how much work goes into liberation movements, to revolutions. There's a lot of tedious political work that is necessary and crucial for the movement that is often built built on and built up over years and years and years. You know, the the various revolutions um of the Arab Spring weren wasn't one moment in time. It wasn't one protest that led to the Arab Spring. It was years and years of organizing and work. And the same is the case for Palestine when there have been moments of uprising. These haven't been sort of just random moments where protest suddenly becomes
00:29:57
Speaker
the uprising itself. It's actually a lot of work that goes into it. I can maybe jump in and say, like, I agree with you that I i don't think any of this is ill-intentioned, but I think it's a little bit misplaced and a little bit inconsiderate of the context.
00:30:13
Speaker
And I think what could be asked here, just to make sure that the framing is correct, you know, the intention is in the right place, this is going to do something that's on the long run or like in the grand scheme of things can have an impact um and change something.
Closing Thoughts on Dignity and Impact
00:30:30
Speaker
I think when we say Gaza is our moral compass, it's not really an empty slogan. And I think one can always ask, is the action that I'm doing centering the dignity of the Palestinians?
00:30:42
Speaker
If you don't have a clear answer to this, then I think you would require to revisit what you're doing. And you keep revisiting until you have a clear answer on how this actually centers the dignity of the Palestinians. Not the Palestinians in general, but I think there's a responsibility in in in how we we we have to act and how we have to relate to Palestinians.
00:31:02
Speaker
And I think that the question of dignity becomes centered to this. And I think secondary to this or also next to this would be, will my action put someone else... in danger if they don't have the same privileges as me.
00:31:15
Speaker
Like, again, thinking of the ramifications, if I step foot in that square, what does this happen? who Who else is affected? Are they affected positively or negatively? And it ends up being like a simple calculation of what's your input, what is the output, and then you start to see is it worth it or not worth it.
00:31:33
Speaker
NJ, I think we'll leave it there. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Rethinking Palestine.
00:31:42
Speaker
Rethinking Palestine is brought to you by Ashabaka, the Palestinian policy network. Ashabaka is the only global independent Palestinian think tank whose mission is to produce critical policy analysis and collectively imagine a new policymaking paradigm for Palestine and Palestinians worldwide.
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For more information or to donate to support our work, visit al-shabaka.org. And importantly, don't forget to subscribe to Rethinking Palestine wherever you listen to podcasts.