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Palestinian Authority’s Jenin Invasion Amid Gaza Ceasefire
2.3k Plays2 months ago
Yara Hawari and Mondoweiss’s Yumna Patel break down the latest developments in Jenin and across the West Bank within the context of the Israeli genocide in Gaza and recent ceasefire. This is the first episode of a three-part collaboration series between Al-Shabaka and Mondoweiss.
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Transcript
External Influences on the Palestinian Authority (PA)
00:00:00
Speaker
The PA is a governing body that was created by an outside force. And it's one that is supported and propped up by outside forces. It's not a body that is interested in Palestinian representation or legitimacy. And I think everything that the PA has been doing in Janine is to position itself in that post ceasefire world.
00:00:30
Speaker
This is the first podcast episode in a collaborative series between Ashabaka and Mondevice where we covered the latest events unfolding on the ground in Palestine. Make sure to follow and subscribe to both Ashabaka and Mondevice wherever you listen to your podcasts, as well as on social media and YouTube so you don't miss an episode.
January 2025: PA Withdrawal and Jenin Siege
00:00:50
Speaker
On the 21st of January 2025, the Palestinian Authority hastily withdrew their security forces which have been laying siege to Jenin refugee camp for over a month. Shortly after, the Israeli army entered and closed off all the entrances and exits to the camp, and since then they have been shooting anyone who tries to leave.
00:01:08
Speaker
People on the ground claim that the PA's security forces removed many of the weapons from the camp during the siege, severely weakening the resistance and effectively clearing the way for the Israelis. This particular episode was recorded prior to the ceasefire in Gaza and the Israeli invasion of Janine. In it, Yomna Patel, editor-in-chief of One Device, interviews me about the Palestinian Authority siege of the camp and its aspirations for war over Gaza, providing crucial context for what's currently unfolding. Dr. Hawari, thanks for joining us.
00:01:38
Speaker
Thanks for having me. So Yara, I wanted to start by asking you to just first help us contextualize the events in Janine for our listeners. What has led us to this point?
00:01:51
Speaker
So Jenin, really the wider northern West Bank, including areas such as Turgharam and around Nablus, have long been a thorn in the side of the PA, the Palestinian Authority, because of the presence of armed resistance groups, groups that are not only resisting the Israeli regime's occupation of their lands, but also, who crucially, are in opposition
Security Coordination with Israel: Subordination or Necessity?
00:02:15
Speaker
to the PA. And that there's various various reasons why They're in opposition, ideological reasons, refusal of the increasing authoritarianism of the PA, but also crucially the the security coordination mechanism between the PA and the Israeli regime. And this is where they coordinate on all matters pertaining to security.
00:02:37
Speaker
and And I think coordination doesn't even describe the reality very well. It's a form of subordination. The Israeli regime tells the PA what to do security-wise, and for a large part it complies. And that's because the the PA's existence is predicated on that fact that this coordination continues.
00:02:57
Speaker
um And so the PA has done its job of subduing Palestinian armed resistance against the Israeli regime in really large parts of the the areas of the West Bank that it governs. But there are areas, and particularly in refugee camps, where they haven't been able to do that. And that includes Janine,
00:03:17
Speaker
and And so what we're seeing now is as a result of increased pressure from the Israeli regime on the Palestinian Authority to gain control over these areas and to once and for all subdue the armed resistance groups there. Yara, you said that the existence of the PA a is predicated on the security coordination. Could you just tell us a little bit more about what you mean by that?
00:03:45
Speaker
So after the Oslo Accords, PA was established as the governing body of certain areas of the West Bank, the Bantustans as it were. um And this was um this was premised on the idea that it would maintain full security cooperation or coordination with the Israelis.
Jenin's Symbolic Resistance and PA's Role
00:04:05
Speaker
So it would be in complete communication with the Israelis on all matters pertaining to security. Now security here is a is a sort of a code word for any kind of armed resistance groups, any kind of armed operations against the Israeli regime. And it includes also all kinds of training, um all kinds of sharing of of information, and the PA in turn has used it to crack down on political opposition, and the Israeli regime has used it to crack down on groups that it fears.
00:04:39
Speaker
I want to go back to Janine right now. The fact that this PA operation is happening in Janine specifically, I mean, you mentioned that there is armed resistance, ah there are groups all over the Northern West Bank, but the fact that it's happening in Janine also carries a deep significance, right? I mean, the PA, if it was carrying out this massive of an operation anywhere in the West Bank, it would be news.
00:05:04
Speaker
but It's clear that there is this message that the PA is trying to send here by targeting Janine. What is that message to Palestinians in the West Bank?
00:05:16
Speaker
So for a long time, Jenin has occupied this very significant place in the hearts and minds of Palestinians. It's known for its resistance fighters, for its steadfastness. It has seen some of the most brutal attacks by the Israeli regime, including the the infamous battle of Jenin in 2002 during the Second Intifada.
00:05:39
Speaker
When the camp was invaded by Israeli soldiers and large parts were raised to the ground, I think 35% of the the camp was destroyed and there were massacres. But there was also a resistance struggle and that for many put up a heroic fight against these invaders.
00:05:57
Speaker
And so there is this collective narrative of Janine being this historic site of resistance, but also a present site of resistance, you know especially as so many other urban hubs in the West Bank have have been
The PA's Law and Order Narrative: Reality or Propaganda?
00:06:11
Speaker
subdued. And so in a way, what the PA is doing now is is not surprising. It's very symbolic that it's going after this particular area. And it's a very clear message that the PA a will work hand in glove with the Israelis.
00:06:26
Speaker
to quell armed and popular resistance and it's also very much connected to what's happening in Gaza with the genocide you know the Israeli regime is really battling on all fronts to and once and for all end the the Palestinian armed resistance which you know, most analysts will will agree is is an impossible feat. But they've recruited the PA to assist in that endeavor. And I think it's even more of a blow to Palestinian morale, you know, at a time of genocide when your so-called leadership has done very little to stop it, rather it's collaborating with the Israelis to put down resistance elsewhere. So they' um on the one level, there's a very, you know, practical goal in mind, and that's to er eradicate armed resistance.
00:07:10
Speaker
But there's also a goal of of damaging the Palestinian morale at a time when it's at a low. Yeah, i and this connection to to Gaza and the connection to Israel's attacks on Palestinian resistance and and Palestinian life is critical. And we're we're going to talk about that later um because ultimately, I mean, that is that is really the context to understand what's happening now. but I want to go a little bit more in depth into the current operation that the PA is conducting in Janine, just to paint a picture for um listeners, for people who maybe have been following the news, but aren't totally clear on you know what are the power dynamics that are at play right now. So the PA has said that it's conducting this, quote unquote, operation in order to establish law and order.
00:08:08
Speaker
I think to the average person, that sort of language you know evokes comparisons to gangs or other, quote unquote, lawless groups that are operating ah maybe in contravention or outside of law enforcement.
00:08:24
Speaker
But could you like explain why in this specific context, in the context of Palestine and of Jenin, the dynamics here are different than what would be typically thought of in you know popular culture as a lawless group?
00:08:44
Speaker
The Palestinian Authority, the PA, as you mentioned, is using this language of law and order in an attempt to to win over popular opinion and to reinforce the notion that it is this governing authority in the West Bank. And I think it has worked on some small sectors of you know the population. But by and large, people know that this is propaganda, firstly, because the people know who these groups are. You know, they're they're not necessarily new groups that are being targeted by the PA. And secondly, because people understand the reality that the the only governing authority in the West Bank is the Israeli occupation. So the PA is using this kind of language as as a smokescreen to obscure the reality, to also to fear monger.
00:09:31
Speaker
And I think this happens not just in Palestine, but I think in many contexts the language of of gangs and of, you know, people operating outside the laws has always been deeply politicized, one that's often used against marginalized and impoverished communities. And it's not by coincidence that the PA is routinely targeting refugee camps. You know, when we talk about Janine in this instance, We are talking about you know largely Janine refugee camp, where and those populations have been marginalized and excluded um from the the the PA, from the the national project for so
Local Perceptions: Resistance vs. PA Actions in Jenin
00:10:11
Speaker
long. And so this language is weaponized against people in particular from refugee camps, so that the PA can can enforce control, can enforce political and practical control over these communities.
00:10:27
Speaker
And I think it's it's really interesting to talk and important to speak about the community that these resistance groups are operating from, right? I mean, Monda Weiss has done extensive reporting.
00:10:41
Speaker
from inside the Janine refugee camp and the areas around it. Of course, there people don't share one blanket opinion. you know There's and an array of nuanced perceptions and opinions when it comes to these dynamics, but overwhelmingly in our reporting, when our reporters or even myself, when we've gone and interviewed residents of the camp, residents who have experienced immense destruction and tragedy at the hands of Israeli authorities who are coming in to arrest people from the camp and also recently you know to target these ah this resurgence of armed resistance. But despite this,
00:11:23
Speaker
The perception largely, I would say, is one where people understand and are sympathetic to and even supportive of these young men. Because at the end of the day, i mean the the young men that are fighting in these resistance groups, at least in Janine, they're not these you know outside actors that are coming in, which is another kind of allegation that the PA has thrown at them, that they've got you know an outside agenda. and are trying to um disrupt order and in Palestine. But the reality is these are mostly young men who were born and raised, grew up in the Janine refugee camp, grew up under ah Israeli occupation and grew up witnessing the extreme violence that Israel exacted on their communities. And so, I mean, there's and not just in Janine, but we've seen over the years polling has even showed immense public support for these resistance groups.
00:12:19
Speaker
at times even more so than the Palestinian Authority itself. So when it comes to this question of safety right and the PA accusing the Janine Brigade in this case of endangering civilians, saying that the PA is trying to bring back safety and stability for the ordinary people of Janine and the people of the Janine refugee camp.
00:12:40
Speaker
how do you respond to that? I'm curious how you respond to that. And also, we don't, of course, want to speak on behalf of people in Janine, but do you believe that the average person in Janine would consider themselves, let's say, safe under PA rule, which is what the PA is implying here, that we're getting rid of these groups so that you can be safe under our control and our authority?
00:13:04
Speaker
I mean, I think one thing can be sure is that people in Janine refugee camp do not feel safe under a PA siege, which is what they are currently facing. um And this this question or this this line of safety of that you know that the resistance groups are endangering so civilians, we've heard this line before. We've heard it from the Israelis.
00:13:29
Speaker
um that it's the Palestinians themselves that are endangering them, not the ones holding the guns, shooting at civilians. um And it's really a form of defecting the blame.
Impact of PA's Actions on Credibility and Public Perception
00:13:38
Speaker
I mean, this idea that the ones who are setting up the checkpoints in the camp, who are stationing snipers on rooftops, who are shooting at civilians, you know, including a young journalist who was standing on the doorstep of her own home, who are beating up ambulance crews, that they're the ones that are bringing safety and stability for ordinary people is ludicrous.
00:13:59
Speaker
And I think people in the camp see that very much with their own eyes. I think also people outside of the camp know that to be true as well. um And it does absolutely nothing to install confidence in the PA. I don't think people across the West Bank look to the PA for for safety. um We're talking about decades of Israeli occupation, of Israeli raids, of the demolition of homes, of mass incarceration across the board. you know In the last year and a half, we've seen over 14,000 Palestinians from the West Bank incarcerated in Israeli prisons, and the PA has been nowhere to be seen. They have not provided safety or protection for the people that they claim to serve.
00:14:44
Speaker
So that line and that narrative is particularly egregious, I think, at a time of genocide, at a time of ongoing colonial occupation. um So I think it's it's something that they have learned from the Israelis quite clearly, and I think it's not something that will be widely believed by the population in the West Bank.
00:15:10
Speaker
If you're enjoying this podcast, please visit our website a al dash-shabaka.org where you will find more Palestinian policy analysis and where you can join our mailing list and donate to support our work.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you touched on two really critical points here, one being public opinion and public perception of the PA, which as you said, this operation in Janine is certainly not going to help that. You also, you know, when you were speaking about the different tactics that the PA has employed during its operation in Janine,
00:15:44
Speaker
um One can't help but draw the very obvious parallel and and similarity, um which is you know something that you've written about and something that you've been vocal about. So before I kind of ask you some more questions as to why we're seeing these parallels, can you just paint a picture for people? What are the tactics that the PA has been employing throughout its operation in Janine that are very strikingly similar to the Israeli tactics that are employed when attacking Geneva. As I mentioned before, we've seen the the PA set up checkpoints across the camp, limiting the movement of of residents. We've seen the PA as well play snipers on the on the top of rooftops. And if it weren't for their uniforms, one might mistake these snipers for Israeli soldiers. We've also seen a lot of videos on social media um of beatings, of interrogations. It was a video during the rounds of two men, Palestinian men, are being forced to to stand on one leg and um recite the President Abu Mazen, Mahmoud Abbas, is God over and over. and
00:16:59
Speaker
And there's another video of the security forces, the PA security forces, beating a young man senseless um because he criticized the siege on the camp. And so whilst it's true that they are using similar tactics to to Israeli soldiers, it's also, I think, very unsurprising that many are using the word Shabihah to describe the security forces. Shabihah is a term that's commonly used for ah forces and groups that were loyal to Syria's former dictator Bashar al-Assad. So on the one hand, yet, they are similar tactics used by the Israeli regime, but they're also similar tactics that are used by other oppressive and authoritarian governments in the region. And I think for the PA, what is particularly astounding is that they they've managed to have this very robust security sector
00:17:49
Speaker
without actually having a state. And that's because the focus of the so-called Palestinian State Building Project in the West Bank has always been about, you know, bolstering up this security sector. And it's and it's funded by the likes of the the US, s the UK, the EU, ah all of whom provide these resources, weapons, and training for the security forces. So it's not surprising that there are shared tactics across the board
00:18:20
Speaker
who I want to go back and just kind of zoom in on this point that you made and the similarities of the terminology that's being used by Palestinians when referring to the Palestinian security forces,
PA's Centralized Power and Historical Repression
00:18:36
Speaker
right?
00:18:36
Speaker
ah using that term that was used by Syrians to criticize the henchmen of ah Bashar al-Assad. I mean, that to me is very striking. And I don't know, I'm i'm curious.
00:18:55
Speaker
Has there been a moment like this where that sort of language and those comparisons have been drawn? Because that's indicative of just the anger and frustration that ordinary Palestinians are feeling watching this unfold. So has there been another moment like this where these sort of frustrations are coming to such a head or is this this moment of betrayal that Palestinians are witnessing from their own forces is that kind of unique to to right now.
00:19:27
Speaker
I think the use of the term should be hand this current moment is topical, obviously, because of the fall of the and the Assad regime. So it's not surprising that people would use that language, but it's certainly not the first time that Palestinians have used that term to refer to and the PA thugs, the PA security forces. um And it's certainly not the first time that Palestinians have faced um repression from the Palestinian security forces. I think this time is particularly agree just because it is reaching new levels of of cruelty and and violence. And I think also because it's happening simultaneously as the genocide in Gaza rages on. So there are moments that that there are reasons why this moment is perhaps unique and is causing so much outrage, but there have been plenty of moments
00:20:19
Speaker
in recent Palestinian history where we have seen the really nasty and ugly side of the Palestinian security forces. you know If we just go back to 2021, the unity in Tafada and how brutally that was put down um by the Palestinian security forces when they killed the ah civil society activists and the the demonstrations that that followed his assassination were really horrifically put down in the streets of Ramallah and Bethlehem and other places.
00:20:51
Speaker
So this is not a new thing. PA cruelty, PA oppression is not new and Neva is trying to control the the political landscape to make sure that they are the only ones who hold any kind of power. That is why the PA was established to centralize that power into one governing body. um So it's not new in that sense, but I think what's been shocking and at least for me has been all these these videos um going around the the cruelty of the the torture and the the interrogations and it's something that hurts even more perhaps than the cruelty of the israeli regime because this is coming from your own people the people who are claiming to to serve you and claiming to to protect you yeah i've seen some of
00:21:41
Speaker
those reactions um on
PA's Betrayal During Gaza Conflict
00:21:44
Speaker
social media. And it's exactly as you said, and it's very painful for people, for Palestinians to watch the Palestinian Authority besiege the refugee camp, cut off water and electricity, ah even invade the local hospitals in Janine, just these these striking images that, like you said, you know, if it weren't for their uniforms, you would think it was the Israeli military carrying out these attacks. And, um yeah, I think what's especially painful right now for people, as you said, as well, is that this is happening in the context of the genocide in Gaza. And, you know, what we're speaking about now, what's happening in Janine and the West Bank, and as you've alluded to throughout our conversation, those two things can't be separated.
00:22:34
Speaker
um In an op-ed that you wrote recently from Jazira, you said that for the PA leadership, the Operation Ingenian is part of a much larger picture, one that allows it to position itself as the body to take over Gaza after a ceasefire. You also said that this is part of a larger, quote, crisis of legitimacy for the PA.
00:22:59
Speaker
As we speak right now on January 14th, there are reports swirling of an imminent ceasefire. I want to ask you, you know tell us more about you know what you mean by by this, this crisis of legitimacy ah that the PA is in, and presumably that it's vying for a position and of power in in a post-war governance situation in Gaza.
Crisis of Legitimacy and Media Suppression
00:23:29
Speaker
So that the crisis of legitimacy, I think, referred to the fact that public perceptions of the PA have plummeted even further since the start of the genocide, if that's possible. um This is a deeply unpopular governing body, an unelected governing body, might I add. um And I think you know the inability of this leadership to do anything at the time of genocide, ah to even say anything, has been arranging for so many people. And you know even worse yet, when people in the West Bank have mobilized against the genocide in Gaza, they have been brutally repressed by PA security forces. So its public perception really is in the mud. And I think
00:24:18
Speaker
you know, the siege on Janine refugee camp, even though not unexpected has made that even worse. um And the problem is, is that there isn't really an opposition, so to speak, there's no sort of possible alternative to the PA emerging. um And that's also by design. And so I think whilst there is that popular sentiment,
00:24:40
Speaker
that is anti-PA, it's also really difficult to think of an alternative. And the PA knows all of this, and they you know they're really trying to do damage control or you know to to shape their narrative. and And one of the ways they've been doing that is limiting the the reporting of its operations on journalists.
00:24:59
Speaker
And we've seen journalists being arrested and and beaten up, but perhaps in an even bigger move, in a more shocking move, the PA actually suspended the Al Jazeera news network from reporting in in the West Bank. um And in addition to suspending their operations, they've also ordered all of the telecommunication companies and channels to not broadcast anything from Jazeera. So even access to their websites have been blocked in the West Bank.
00:25:26
Speaker
And the justification for this is that Al Jazeera have been supposedly putting out inciting materials um and reports stirring strife um in its coverage of of the siege of of the camp. And this is a big deal.
00:25:41
Speaker
Al Jazeera is a foreign news network. So it can't be subjected to the same form of intimidation as local news networks. And so it can report more critically on the PA and it has been doing so. And Al Jazeera's audience has been growing in Palestine, particularly because of its extensive coverage of the ongoing genocide in Gaza. And so it has been gaining more legitimacy and more popularity as this reliable source of information.
00:26:08
Speaker
And so for the PA to suspend it means that it's really concerned about its plummeting image. And I think it's it's particularly an egregious move at time when Palestinian journalists, including those working for Al Jazeera, but also journalists across the board are being targeted and killed at an exceptional rate by the Israeli regime forces. So all of this is to say that they're very concerned with their image, but instead of actually doing better and and actually becoming an authority or some kind of governing body that the people could at least look to at this time of genocide, they've actually just been bolstering ah the Israeli regime's goals
00:26:53
Speaker
And I think we have to understand all of this in the wider context of of what the PA is and what it wants in the future.
PA's Future Aspirations in Gaza
00:27:02
Speaker
ah The PA is a governing body that was created by an outside force, and it's one that is supported and propped up by outside forces. It's not a body that is interested in Palestinian representation or legitimacy from the population. And I think as we're recording this, as you mentioned, um it seems like a ceasefire deal is imminent. And I think, you know, the PA or everything that the PA has been doing in Janine is to position itself in that post ceasefire world.
00:27:39
Speaker
I want to ask, I mean, you you just ended on this point, right, that what the PA is doing in Janine is trying to position itself in that sort of post-war world. I think this is a question that a lot of people have. So that let's say that's answered the question of what is the PA a kind of seeking in Gaza, seeking some sort of role in governance, more functions of power.
00:28:05
Speaker
um Still, how does fighting a resistance group in Jenin in the West Bank achieve some PA goals or visions um of power in Gaza?
00:28:22
Speaker
So I think for for some in the the PA leadership, they think, or this is the equation, that you know if they prove themselves in Janine, in the Northern West Bank, in the camps, they pave the way for a takeover in Gaza. Because if they can... prove that they can subdue these smaller armed resistance groups in the West Bank, then they prove that they won't allow for a Hamas return to power in Gaza. um So I think, you know, they're they're trying to put on a show for the big boys, but I don't think the Israelis care about that. I think they're just happy for someone else to be doing their their dirty work.
00:28:57
Speaker
But then it is what the Biden administration has been vocalizing since you know the start of the genocide that it would be the PA who would run Gaza if they can if they can prove themselves. And the Biden administration has been really sort of keen on this idea. And we know that the Israelis haven't been.
International Perspectives and Trump's Influence on PA's Future Role
00:29:16
Speaker
And sort of all signs from then, the Netanyahu government have been you know adamant that this is not going to happen. um There are some within the Israeli government that have been a bit more cryptic and said that in its current form the PA wouldn't take over Gaza. it Sort of in a similar vein there have been other actors such as the the UAE who who've called for a reformed PA to govern. um This word reform means new leadership.
00:29:41
Speaker
inevitably. So the PA I think is at one of its weakest points um it has ever been and so this is sort of one of its final efforts to to cling on and to even cling on to power but also to to try and claim some more power and it's really sad that this is what they have decided to do amidst the genocide.
00:30:07
Speaker
I mean, it's a very vivid picture that you paint of all the actors involved, all the different all all the pieces that are at play here, right? We talked about an imminent ceasefire deal, the PA vying for power, also for survival, for relevancy. But as we speak now as well, we're a little less than one week away from Trump coming back into office, which in the West Bank at least will very likely mean a return to explicitly pro-settlement and annexation policies caused by Israeli settlers and far-right leaders for annexation of the West Bank ah have been getting louder. And some in just you know very recent weeks
00:30:56
Speaker
are calling for Israel to cut all ties with the PA. And this is as the PA has been conducting its operation in Janine. And what you said was, you know, could be it's to try and prove itself to the big boys. But let's say for argument's sake, let's say the PA is successful in this operation.
00:31:19
Speaker
It manages to significantly weaken or even neutralize the resistance in Janine, which as you said earlier is unlikely given that Israel itself has not managed to to do that in in Janine and in the West Bank. But let's say the PA is quote unquote successful. Would it even matter to Israel and the US, not not just in you know a post-war Gaza, but in the West Bank, the territory that the PA currently has some sort of nominal control over, let's say. Would it even matter or is the PA a just fighting a losing game here? I think that's a difficult question to answer. I'm not sure that it would matter because I think what we've seen over the last 14 months is that
00:32:12
Speaker
what the Israelis and the Americans want will happen. Having said that, I also think it's difficult to predict what we can expect from a Trump administration. We know that Trump has been the one pushing hard for this ah latest ceasefire deal and putting pressure on Netanyahu, something which he said that he would do throughout his campaign and and many people didn't believe him. So that's transpiring to be the case.
00:32:39
Speaker
You know, what we can be certain about is that the situation for Palestinians is not going to get better. It's going to get worse across the board. I think it's also really important to remember that the the Biden administration, and I think Mondo Vice, published a ah piece about this that you know has done more damage to the the international norms of humanitarian law.
00:32:59
Speaker
than any other US s government in recent history. So it's really difficult to say what's going to come and what's going to be worse to make these comparisons between the Biden administration and the Trump administration. We know what we're getting with the Americans, and I think it's just how it's going to be presented. But we're living in unprecedented times. We did not expect that a genocide would be able to be conducted in this day and age with such cruelty and with with such lack of accountability um and such impunity. um So i think you know I think it would be interesting to see, but I think really the PA is not a significant player for either the Israelis or the Americans. I think they're they're a useful tool, but I think they can be done away with or summoned
00:33:48
Speaker
at the behest of the Americans and the Israelis. It just depends where they fit into that that wider picture. I think we can leave it here. Dr. Yara Hawari of al-Shabaqa, the Palestinian Policy Network, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me.
00:34:09
Speaker
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