Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
2025 in Review: Palestine and the Fight for Liberation
77 Plays15 minutes ago
We close 2025 with curated highlights from this year's most powerful conversations. From the complexities of Palestinian politics to global responses to Gaza's genocide, this episode captures the moments that defined the struggle for justice over the past twelve months.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Context
00:00:00
Speaker
Ashabaka's Rethinking Palestine podcast produces content that not only speaks to the pivotal moment in the Palestinian struggle for liberation, but also challenges the hegemonic narratives that have allowed the continued settler colonization of Palestine, and more recently the genocide in Gaza, to persist with impunity.
00:00:16
Speaker
In our final episode of 2025, we've curated some of the most compelling soundbites from this year's episodes. soundbites that illuminate the complexities of Palestinian politics, the global responses to the genocide, and the ongoing fight for justice.
00:00:36
Speaker
From Ashabaka, the Palestinian Policy Network, I am Yara Hawari, and this is Rethinking Palestine.
00:00:45
Speaker
At the start of the year, we partnered with Mondo Vice to unpack unfolding political dynamics. In the first episode, I joined Yumna Patel, Mondo Vice's editor-in-chief, to discuss the Palestinian Authority's invasion of Janine during the January 2025 ceasefire in Gaza.
The Role of Janine in Resistance
00:01:01
Speaker
So for a long time, Janine has occupied this very significant place in the hearts and minds of Palestinians. It's known for its resistance fighters, for its steadfastness.
00:01:14
Speaker
It has seen some of the most brutal attacks by the Israeli regime. including the infamous battle of Janine in 2002 during the Second Intifada, when the camp was invaded by Israeli soldiers and large parts were raised to the ground. I think 35% of the camp was destroyed and there were massacres.
00:01:35
Speaker
But there was also a resistance struggle and that for many put up a heroic fight against these invaders. And so there is this collective narrative of Janine being this historic site of resistance.
00:01:49
Speaker
but also a present site of resistance, you know, especially as so many other urban hubs in the West Bank have have been subdued. And so in a way, what the PA is doing now is is not surprising. It's very symbolic that it's going after this particular area.
PA and Israeli Collaboration
00:02:06
Speaker
And it's a very clear message that the PA a will work hand in glove with the Israelis, to quell armed and popular resistance. And it's also very much connected to what's happening in Gaza with the genocide. You know, the Israeli regime is really battling on all fronts to once and for all end the the Palestinian armed resistance, which...
00:02:28
Speaker
you know most analysts will will agree is is an impossible feat. But they've recruited the PA to assist in that endeavor. And I think it's even more of a blow to Palestinian morale, you know at a time of genocide, when your so-called leadership has done very little to stop it. Rather, it's collaborating with the Israelis to put down resistance elsewhere. So that on on the one level, there's a very you know practical goal in mind, and that's to er eradicate armed resistance.
00:02:55
Speaker
But there's also a goal of of damaging the Palestinian morale at a time when it's at a low.
Life in Gaza Under Siege
00:03:02
Speaker
Next, Shabba Kabul president, Deanna Butu, joins Yumna to discuss ceasefire negotiations and so-called day-after plans.
00:03:10
Speaker
The whole thing is immoral. That's the problem, is that we were forced to be in a place where we're negotiating for our own survival. And if that's not perverse, I don't know what is.
00:03:22
Speaker
um And so you're asking, like what is the most pressing? All of it is. all Every aspect of it. Because people need food. They need water. They need shelter.
00:03:34
Speaker
But life isn't just about food, water, and shelter. it's It's about being able to, the people you see and people you're around and the the places you go and in your education. and And the Israelis have reduced life in Gaza even before October to down to a the basics of whether you have food, shelter, water, and in the food, like, it's all about, like, just consuming. That's it. they And they never viewed Gaza as being a place that other than these are animals that are in a cage equivalent.
00:04:08
Speaker
And we just need to to feed them in order to keep them alive so that we can say that we kept them alive and and gaslight them as well. The problem is is that the world has accepted this.
00:04:20
Speaker
It's so dehumanizing. That even the way the ways in which people are thinking is in this dehumanizing way of just making sure they have enough food, just making sure they have enough water, just making sure they have enough shelter. And all of that is necessary at the same time.
PA's Internal Challenges
00:04:34
Speaker
But people are not thinking at the at the beyond, thinking bigger. And the part that really bothers me of that is why is it that Israel, the state that committed genocide, why did they get to decide anything?
00:04:48
Speaker
In the final part of this collaborative series, Abdel Jouad Omar joins Yumna to discuss intra-Palestinian politics. The PA has three fundamental things that it's trying its best to maintain. First, no unity, because the PA, if achieves unity with you know other parties and political formations in Palestine, it will have to change it its entire political paradigm from one that adopts cooperation with Israel to one that at least goes down the road of defiance, some sort of political confrontation with Israeli settler colonialism, which is the current elites of the PA do not want. So that's one element that they are seeking all the time to not actually have or move forward.
00:05:28
Speaker
Even when they speak to Hamas or Islamic Jihad or PFLP, they're always, they find an excuse for why unity cannot be retained or achieved. Elections cannot be implemented. For instance, they would speak about Jerusalem and the elections being held to Jerusalem as an excuse. So the PA lives and survives on the disunity that we're seeing in Palestinian society. That's one element. The second element is they see the danger arising from Israeli settler, fascist messianic groups led by people like Smutrich and Bingvir, who see the PA, even through its cooperation, security and otherwise, as an obstacle obstacle towards cleansing the land. And complacency on the part of Israeli state that, you know, you have this PA that serves our security needs and economic and political needs when it comes to leading the Palestinian population in the West Bank. And they they want to shake this ground. Remember that the revisionist powers that want to actually really change the paradigm are not necessarily always Palestinians who want or seek liberation and freedom, but are also powers like, you know, the Israeli white wing settler movement that is, you know, the spearhead of of the Zionist movement more broadly today. So the element is that they have a danger emanating from there.
00:06:34
Speaker
And they're also um unwilling or they also have a new challenge in the release of a lot of prisoners who are from the era of the Second Intifada today. And some of them are prisoners who have a different set different set of political beliefs, who are today are returning to their homes. Some have leadership roles. We can see figures like Marwan Barghouti also being released. So there's another challenge to this elite emanating from the return of voices from the past, even the past that is closely knitted to Fathah, that they also need to manage pretty well.
00:07:05
Speaker
And one of the decisions they took recently is to actually, as a gift to Trump and his ambassador, Stephen Whitcoff, I think his name is, is to change the policy on the payment of prisoners and martyrs in Palestine, which will cause a big uproar also, at least locally in the West Bank
Global Narratives and Genocide
00:07:21
Speaker
and other places. So this is the situation. They're presenting themselves as the ones that can be an alternative. They're incapable really of being an alternative because they're too weak. The more they go down the road of serving Israel and the U.S., the less legitimacy they have. And at the same time,
00:07:35
Speaker
I think they're trying their best to maintain this equation. The only thing going for the PA right now is the fear that people have when it comes to Israel's violence and its ability to systematically kill and massacre people like we've seen for the past 15 months.
00:07:49
Speaker
As the year progressed, we looked at how narratives played a vital role in the unfolding reality. Tariq Keneshawar, Ashabaka's very own US policy fellow, discussed the global manufacturing of consent for the genocide in Gaza and what that means for accountability.
00:08:05
Speaker
I think it's like, this is a really important case study in how genocide and ethnic cleansing is carried out in the 21st century. I think one of the biggest differences that separates genocide in the 1940s and 50s and 60s to today is that you know genocide has become a much more public process. right And I i think genocidal states or genocidal entities have to contend with the fact that their actions are going to be telegraphed to the world for the world to see.
00:08:38
Speaker
And that's not to say that they're not going to engage in in genocidal acts. And that's not not to say that they're going to change their genocidal objectives. It just means that they have to do it in a different way, right? In a way that that covers it up in some ways and makes it a little bit more gradual process that normalizes it as a whole. And I think they have to manufacture consent for it so that the public doesn't step in and call for intervention. And I think that is one thing. And then the other thing that we're learning is is how much public response it's going to take to trigger intervention, right? At what what point in the genocide are we going to get to before not only the public says this is enough, but but until the point that they can influence the actions of actual policymakers?
Gaza's Reconstruction Politics
00:09:22
Speaker
And I think that is is a huge disconnect. That is that is the main disconnect. We also addressed what the future holds for reconstruction and governance in Gaza. Policy member and architect Abdurrahman Ketani gave us a reconstruction narrative reality check by explaining that in the case of Gaza, reconstruction is not a neutral process of rebuilding, but rather one that has become a stage for geopolitical interests and domination.
00:09:49
Speaker
So the ultimate objective and intent was to render Gaza uninhabitable, to make life itself impossible in Gaza. So rebuilding Gaza is not merely about reconstructing buildings and infrastructure.
00:10:05
Speaker
It is about reconstructing life in general. It's about reconstructing life in Gaza. And this, of course, demands a fundamental thinking of how human existence can be re-established in these devastated spaces and cities. And this challenge, of course, extends far beyond the physical realm of reconstruction as a technical field.
00:10:32
Speaker
From another angle, from a third angle, I think, the reconstruction of Gaza became actually or has become a matter of significant global political and geopolitical interest. As we see in the media, it is ah being used as a tool for political agendas or global political agendas that extend well beyond the humanitarian need to support the people and restore their destroyed cities. So reconstruction is being rudely and abduously weaponized now as a means for political control, making the process even more challenging.
00:11:10
Speaker
So in short, all of these things make the rebuilding of Gaza an immense challenge, a very great challenge, one that is far more beyond and complex than the typical post-war reconstruction and other cases.
00:11:24
Speaker
Similarly, Safat Judeh, another policy member, explored the post-genocide governance landscape in Gaza, highlighting the increasing role of private security contractors and the dangers that come with it.
00:11:36
Speaker
In terms of what the situation will look like in Gaza the day after the war, and in terms of post-war governance, it seems through the arrangements that Israel is putting into place now that you know we're getting a view of what Israel's plans are for who will administer Gaza.
00:11:57
Speaker
There's been no substantial conversation towards Gaza planning for the post-war situation. Beyond the fact that it appears that Israel just is not invested in reoccupying or retaking Gaza, it's unlikely that Hamas will be able to play a role in Gaza's governance, even if Israel fails to destroy or disarm it and and Hamas continues to exist as a political organization. Hamas itself has announced that it it's relinquishing control of um post-war administering or governance of Gaza.
00:12:29
Speaker
So Hamas is unlikely to be there. Israel has refused any sort of suggestion for the PA to assume the role of administering Gaza. And so it appears that there will be a void. And the question is, who will fill this void? And it seems like what Israel is doing is constructing a landscape of a number of concentration camps, which are ruled ah by Israel-backed armed gangs or militias that are being funded and and supported and backed by Israel now to operate
Solidarity and Advocacy
00:13:04
Speaker
in Gaza. And the population's needs will be administered and met through Israel.
00:13:09
Speaker
these aid distribution points that Israel is setting up almost as a pilot for some sort of permanent arrangement in order to provide services for the remaining population. So it's really a very worrying question about what will the post-war governance landscape look like, and it it requires attention and and serious action if a disastrous and tragic situation like the one we are seeing now present is to be avoided.
00:13:37
Speaker
If you're enjoying this podcast, please visit our website, al-shabaka.org, where you will find more Palestinian policy analysis and where you can join our mailing list and donate to support our work.
00:13:50
Speaker
Solidarity efforts also took centre stage this year in our analysis. NG Sarhan joined us to provide a critical look at the solidarity efforts, particularly in the context of the Global March to Gaza, an initiative that envisioned activists marching from Cairo to Rafah in order to break the siege.
00:14:07
Speaker
I agree with you that i I don't think any of this is ill-intention, but I think it's a little bit misplaced and a little bit inconsiderate of the context. And I think what could be asked here, just to make sure that the framing is correct, you know, the intention is in the right place, this is going to do something that's on the long run or like in the grand scheme of things can have an impact and change something. I think when we say Gaza is our moral compass, it's not really an empty slogan. And I think one can always ask, is the action that I'm doing centering the dignity of the Palestinians?
00:14:45
Speaker
If you don't have a clear answer to this, then I think you are required to revisit what you're doing. And you keep revisiting until you have a clear answer on how this actually centers the dignity of the Palestinians. Not the Palestinians in general, but I think there is a responsibility in in how we we have to act and how we have to relate to Palestinians. And I think that the question of dignity becomes centered to this. And I think secondary to this or also next to this would be, will my action put someone else...
00:15:14
Speaker
in danger if they don't have the same privileges as me. Like, again, thinking of the ramifications, if I step foot in that square, what does this happen? who Who else is affected? Are they affected positively or negatively? And it ends up being like a simple calculation of what's your input, what is the output, and then you start to see is it worth it or not worth it.
00:15:37
Speaker
Meanwhile, a Shabaka policy member and PIPD co-director Inez Abdel-Razak highlighted the limits of international state solidarity in the symbolic recognitions of the state of Palestine.
00:15:47
Speaker
The idea or the political measure of recognition is definitely a cop-out, as you said, for Western countries and Israeli allies, because that the problem is that they present this as a bold move, right? The entire spin around this is that they present this as this very costly political measure that requires a lot of political courage, when in fact, absolutely not. Like, it's the it's a very symbolic move. that changes absolutely nothing for the Israelis. And actually, back when Spain and Ireland, you know, recognized some Israeli, you know, think tankers and analysts just said it, like, it's not going to change anything on the ground. Israel will not feel anything, any cost after such decision.
00:16:28
Speaker
So it is maintaining the very comfort zone. that the diplomatic community, that the international community has been in, and that has led to this very moment, to the very brink of extermination of our people in Gaza and to the genocide. And, you know, we have to know that there is more than 140 countries now in the world. I think we're around 145 who...
00:16:50
Speaker
do recognize Palestine. But has that changed? We're still here at the brink of extermination of our people and an existential ah threat to our existence on our end. so So it's not like we don't have precedence. that we We haven't done this.
Negotiations and Tactics
00:17:03
Speaker
And so I think, the as Diana said, I think that very point of like the cop-out it gives for Israeli allies to pretend that they are doing something when in in fact they're Just reinforcing the culture of impunity of Israel is is, I think, the main point, because also I think it's important to understand how Israel operates.
00:17:25
Speaker
Israel uses, as Diana said, also negotiations, right? back the negotiations whether on ceasefire or the Oslo Agreement, or now even on humanitarian aid, they use this strategy, like they have a scorched earth strategy. They destroy everything. They take everything from us. Our homes, our land, they destroy everything. And then they will ask us to negotiate to get a crumb, you know, to basically get a breadcrumb from the entire... resources, food that they have stolen from us. And then we're at we're actually blamed for not accepting these breadcrumbs. And so that's exactly what's happening now. They deceived the Europeans into some form of you know humanitarian scheme ah so that the Europeans had an excuse to say, okay, we'll not take accountability measures because they've agreed on a humanitarian scheme.
00:18:13
Speaker
So it's exactly the same pattern as they do always. They use this to control the agenda, to control time and space, to then further annex, further kill our people and further ah destroy. And so that tactic has been repeated over and over again. And with recognition, they've done the same. They've like portrayed outrage.
00:18:32
Speaker
They will, you know, expel an ambassador, recall an ambassador. say that this is diplomatic terrorism and and and project outrage, when in fact they know it won't change anything. And so that outrage creates the sense in the international community that they have done something meaningful to to basically you know upset Israel. it It is really a sort of ballet in the political scene that is effectively shielding completely Israel from accountability and is making the countries escaping their very legal a responsibility as well.
00:19:05
Speaker
This year, the European Legal Support Centre joined our podcast twice, firstly with Amirah Hala and secondly with Ania Zivalenti to share about the prescription and criminalisation of Palestine's solidarity in Europe and the possibility for pushback and a counter-strategy.
00:19:20
Speaker
Since October 2023, but also since the ban on Palestine action and other organizations in other countries, we've seen a surge in incidents being reported to us. And as you said, that you're you're right, you know, the prescription and and and kind of the securitization of Palestine solidarity groups have had a significant but also intentional chilling effect on the broader on the broader movement. because Because ultimately, what these unlike what these governments claim,
00:19:48
Speaker
This is about suppressing resistance to genocide and criminalizing basic tactics of solidarity. This is about creating widespread confusion and fear amongst amongst people.
00:20:00
Speaker
And it's very clear to us, and you know I hope it's clear to many others, and I think it is, that this is a tool to target the wider movement, that prescription is a tool to target the wider movement. not It's not just about Palestine action in Britain. It's not just about Samadun in Germany. It's not just about Urgence Palestine. It's not about, you know, so
Counter-Advocacy Efforts
00:20:20
Speaker
on, so on, so.
00:20:20
Speaker
And there have been, as you said, you know, many, many arrests connected to the prescription. And so, for example, um recently, i mean, maybe last month or or or something like that, um a protester in Kent was threatened by armed police. So Kenton in the UK was threatened by armed police for holding a sign that read Free Gaza.
00:20:40
Speaker
And officers were claiming that this phrase itself could be interpreted as support for the now-prescribed Palestine action. And so you see that this ban is leveraged to suppress even basic expressions of support for Palestine. And already, as you said, the UK has seen the hundreds of arrests since the since the prescription of Palestine action. And these are people who are merely holding protest signs reading, I oppose genocide, i support Palestine action.
00:21:09
Speaker
They were taken in the hundreds by by police in in custody. and And so, as I said, the primary goal of these bans is to intimidate the broader public and deter from participating in solidarity actions. And this widespread and confusion about what the bans mean in practice is intentional.
00:21:27
Speaker
And like even recently, even before... the prescription or the dissolution of Urgence Palestine in France. So, you know, it hasn't happened yet. But even even just the the discourse about banning it, Amnesty International, for example, has warned that this dissolution um of groups like Urgence Palestine in in France would have a, quote, deterrent effect on all individuals and organizations engaged on solidarity actions with the Palestinian people.
00:21:54
Speaker
Legal action, as mentioned, can be ah seeked only in limited situations. When it comes to collective pushback, we believe that it's necessary to heighten awareness regarding the funding and the risking strategies ah through monitoring, followed by targeted public outreach and advocacy, particularly given the low success rates in legal cases. ah So it's really important pre-emptive engagement and coordinated advocacy with donors and financial institutions. um
00:22:28
Speaker
At the moment, there is no structured or proactive unified group consistently engaged in day-to-day advocacy on Palestine in Europe, both with donors, but especially with financial institutions. In contrast, pro-Israel lobby groups are well organized and operate with a clear and strategic agenda.
00:22:49
Speaker
So the attempts at the funding take place because the donors are pressured by pro-Israeli lobby groups as they are afraid of being named and shamed and or to violate CFT and AML legislation. Therefore, a long-term counter-advocacy strategy by pro-Palestine groups should effectively take place. Maybe like targeting one or two major donors so or, um for example, the European Commission.
00:23:14
Speaker
A long-term counter-advocacy strategy is urgently needed that exposes the influence of ah pro-Israel media and lobbying efforts on risk assessments and that pushes for genuine engagement with clients, which is completely lacking, as well as the adoption of fair and case-by-case enhanced due diligence policies.
00:23:34
Speaker
And when I speak about exposing the role of a pro-Israel lobby group, In our opinion, and after these three years of ah work on the funding and the risking, and after three years of getting that behind the the funding and the risking, there are the smirk campaigns of pro-Israel lobby groups, what we believe is that it's really important when building the advocacy strategy to take into account the exposure of the unreliability of the pro-Israel lobby groups and the unreliability of the evidence they rely upon.
Solidarity Movements and Law
00:24:11
Speaker
There have been varying responses to the genocide by states across the globe. In Europe, Spain has been amongst the most critical of Israel's genocide or assault. Elisa Steppe, spokesperson for the Solidarity Network against the occupation of Palestine in Spain, unpacked for us the Spanish government's rhetoric and actions around the genocide in Gaza amid mass grassroots mobilization.
00:24:31
Speaker
What's interesting to say is that what we're seeing on the streets, and we're seeing this from many, many, many different sectors from society, is that there's this full understanding that what happens in Palestine doesn't stay in Palestine and affects us all. And how...
00:24:48
Speaker
What we do matters and what we do can influence in stopping the Israeli genocide against the Palestinian people. So it's been very inspiring to see in these last protests, seeing people coming from, mobilizing from education sector, from the health sector, from the fire people, like from many, many, many different groups, understanding that we all have a role to play from dock workers.
00:25:13
Speaker
And it's understanding that Palestine is part and parcel of the world we all want, a freer world, a more just world. So I think that understanding this can really help stop the far right, because we're seeing that it's internationally speaking, Israel is more and more isolated. Israel is now mainly supported by the far right forces at an international level and also in in Spain.
00:25:42
Speaker
So understanding this and not seeing Palestine as something isolated, but as part and parcel of this extremely colonialist, racist, capitalist, sexist world that we live in,
00:25:54
Speaker
is contributing to stopping the far right from growing even more in Spain and hopefully elsewhere. So that's why our solidarity movements have to be profoundly anti-racist, profoundly anti-colonialist, anti-capitalist, feminist, and understanding how all of these connections are made.
00:26:14
Speaker
In our final episode of the year, international law expert and Ashabaka member Shahad Hammouri reflected on international law in light of the latest UNSC resolution endorsing Trump's plan for Gaza.
00:26:26
Speaker
In international law, there is a battle. And it's actually and a battle that is as old as um the international creation of the international legal system itself. So once states started to um gain their independence, previously colonized states, they called for the reimagination of this system. And for example, you had Judge Alvarez in the Anglo-Iranian case say that we need a different philosophy of international law that is premised on the idea that international peace and security is only going forward if we have equality and if we rethink our perception of the world through understanding interrelations with each other.
00:27:10
Speaker
On the other hand, you had this other philosophy of international law that is the mainstream one, that is international peace and security is the status quo and upholding it as it is. And these two streams have been in conflict with each other for quite a long time. And ah what what I call the people's international law was much more visible in the General Assembly, especially in the 60s and 70s, when we had the UN n Declaration on Friendly Relations and the declaration ending colonization and whatnot. So, and and those people and and those perspectives, the Global South perspectives, as well as important Arab names like Georgia Bissarba, Mohammed Bidjawi, were very much convinced that, you know, um
00:27:55
Speaker
with the idea of justice and and and with the idea that this law is only useful if it's just. And they really pushed the boundaries of this law. Georgia B. Saab is the reason actually why we have an official recognition of the right to resist.
00:28:07
Speaker
But what happened is ever since the end of the Cold War, because it's a unipolar world, it has become very difficult to use that platform and that space. very institutionalized, very bureaucratic, and even those trying to contest it are civil society actors funded by the same actors that um ah ah build us in. So the UN n Security Council, when it comes in with a resolution like this, that is in violation of the most basic principles of international law, right of return, reparation, self-determination, and the stabilization force, indeed,
00:28:41
Speaker
to me, is a hostile, occupying army. And most importantly in this is that the the notion of coercion, which is very important for states of the global south ever since that era, is completely overlooked. And um the idea that the Palestinian Authority didn't say yes until it was coerced, and it's not like the Palestinian Authority represent represents the Palestinian people, but nevertheless,
00:29:03
Speaker
all of these risks were taken away. So this ultimate contradiction between the UN Security Council, where they're policing the world and where international law and peace and security is whatever the needs of the status quo are, creating this parallel, what we call rules-based order, um in comparison to an actual logical law. So
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:29:25
Speaker
this move comes in really, ah i like it agitates that contradiction to its core and really puts us back to the paradigm of while international law is not going to save Palestine, but the question is whether or not Palestine will be the last straw that breaks the system apart.
00:29:47
Speaker
This year's episodes remind us that understanding Palestine today requires more than following the headlines. It demands attention to politics on the ground, the global machinery of power, and the everyday resistance of Palestinians and their allies worldwide.
00:30:01
Speaker
Right now, Shabaka is in the final stretch of our year-end fundraising campaign. While global attention shifts away from Palestine, our work continues, providing the Palestinian-led analysis and strategy that the movement depends on.
00:30:13
Speaker
We're asking listeners to visit al-shabaka.org forward slash donate and to make a contribution of any size. Your support sustains the infrastructure that turns solidarity into strategic action. That's al-shabaka.org forward slash donate.
00:30:29
Speaker
Thank you for joining us in 2025 and stay tuned for more critical perspectives in the coming year.