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Palestinian Genocide Survivors in Egypt
152 Plays8 months ago
Ali, a humanitarian worker from Gaza now in Egypt, joins host Yara Hawari. He speaks on the experience of Palestinians from Gaza in Egypt as they maneuver the different legal, financial, and social hardships of their forced displacement.
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Transcript
Palestinians' Relief and Hardship in Egypt
00:00:00
Speaker
The life in Egypt for the Palestinian from Gaza is mixed of relief and hardship. We are grateful for the safety and the opportunity we have, but the constant struggle to make ends meet, finding houses and dealing with the legal uncertainties make it tough is a constant source of anxiety. We are just trying to hold and hope to find a way to build a better future despite this challenge.
00:00:32
Speaker
From Ashabaka, the Palestinian Policy Network, I am Yara Hawari and this is Rethinking Palestine.
00:00:42
Speaker
Since the beginning of the genocide in Gaza, tens of thousands of forcibly displaced Palestinians have fled to Egypt in search of safety from Israeli regime bombardments. The journey is neither easy nor guaranteed. Prior to the invasion of Rafah in May 2024, thousands of Palestinians crossed, and there are all kinds of number estimates that range from 85,000 to 120,000. But it's worth noting that it's been difficult to ascertain precise numbers.
Legal and Economic Struggles in Egypt
00:01:11
Speaker
What we do know is that most had to pay astronomical fees, at least $5,000 per adult, and only if their names were on coordination lists. Others were evacuated for medical treatment. Now the few that have made it across the Rafah border face uncertain and challenging circumstances in Egypt.
00:01:30
Speaker
Indeed, there is no UN or international agency that has taken responsibility for them, forcing many to rely on grassroots and diaspora efforts to help pay for food and rent. Their futures, as of the futures of Palestinians in Gaza, remain precarious.
00:01:45
Speaker
Joining us to shed light on this is humanitarian aid worker Ali. Ali, his wife and young son were able to leave Gaza for the Rafah crossing in early May, just before its closure. Ali, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Rethink Palestine. Thank you for having me. Ali, can you start by giving us an overview of Palestinian refugees in Egypt? Why are they there? And what was the journey like for people who managed to get there?
00:02:12
Speaker
For sure. First off, let's be real. These folks are Palestinian refugees. A lot of people don't even recognize them as such. Their situation took a sharp turn for the worst after October 7.
The Costly and Perilous Escape to Egypt
00:02:27
Speaker
Before and after this date, some Palestinians were already stuck in Cairo.
00:02:33
Speaker
They don't have the paperwork to prove their status, but let's talk about their journey, especially after 7th of October. Getting out of the road is a total nightmare. Imagine having to make a split-second decision to flee a war zone.
00:02:53
Speaker
with zero guarantee, leaving Gaza meaning say goodbye to everything you have now, forever. From November to early December, this who managed to escape to Cairo had to catch up over, you know, $12,000 per person, even for decades.
00:03:12
Speaker
And here's the kicker, there is no guarantees. This money often went to coordinators who scam the family out of their money. Some people even made extra, helping it with speed up the things, only to end on a list connecting to Egyptian nationalities.
00:03:36
Speaker
But on the other hand, by the mid-January things shifting a bit with the Ahela company coming back, they charged a person $5,000 over 16 years old. And for the kids, say, $2,500. While it seems more organized, but it was still missing. There is a thousand registering daily.
00:04:02
Speaker
but only 300 to 315 names get the percent each day because of the Israel restrictions and security check.
00:04:12
Speaker
This journey is full of uncertainty and fear. Once you're adjusting, there is no turning back and you wait like 20 to 13 days, holding your bed, hoping your name will get approval. Tragically, some people don't survive the war long enough to see their name coming up. Physically, the trip is brutal.
00:04:39
Speaker
Imagine having with almost nothing, crossing danger, bombarding areas, a traffic crossing. After you finally get to the Palestinian side, you are stuck waiting four to eight hours on the Egyptian side under harsh conditions.
00:04:58
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You cannot move around or asking questions. And if you ask many times, you got shouted at, definitely. Some refugees had to wake over 10 kilometers from the north in Gaza to the crossing, exhausting and in need of rest. This journey is a testament to the resilience and strength of the humanity spirit, the suffering and
00:05:26
Speaker
It's a journey fulfilled with the heartbreak, the spread and a flicker of hope for safety. These people are living beyond their home, their memories and the huge part of their lives. All for a chance at survival.
Challenges in Estimating Refugee Numbers
00:05:44
Speaker
You know, all the Gazan right now in Egypt are genocide survivors.
00:05:51
Speaker
Ali, thank you for painting that picture for us. As I mentioned earlier, the estimated numbers of Palestinians from Gaza and Egypt is really difficult to ascertain. Why is that?
00:06:05
Speaker
It's definitely a challenge to nail down the exact number. The estimates suggesting there are between 100,000 to 200,000 Palestinians from Gaza and Egypt. This estimate comes from the Ministry of Interior in Gaza.
00:06:21
Speaker
and it likely including mix of people, those who went to Egyptian nationality, some who are sick or wounded and the large group being the Suuqam to Yahyala company or other coordination.
00:06:37
Speaker
But now the bigger question, why we can't get a solid number? For both the Egyptian and Palestinian authorities, releasing an official number is a huge moral and political burden. If they revealed the two figures, it would expose just how much money Palestinian had to pay to escape the war zone.
00:07:01
Speaker
Essentially, it would highlight that the Rafah crossing turned into a significant financial resource for the Egyptian authorities. Just think about it. Yohanna company was reportedly making over $2 million daily just from these people trying to find safety.
00:07:21
Speaker
This financial exploitation is a major reason why everyone is trying to keep the number under works. Admitting to this number means acknowledging a painful truth. That the palate of these refugees has been turned into profit-making financial. Furthermore,
00:07:44
Speaker
People constantly moving, money have no proper documentation and entire situation is flawed and unstable. However, with Rafahat
Worsening Situation and International Attention
00:07:56
Speaker
crossing now closed and the situation for the Palestinian in Egypt become more critical, I believe we will soon see this number coming out into the open. As the coordination worsen and international attention increasing,
00:08:12
Speaker
There will be more pressure to address the needs of these refugees, probably. The real number will likely be revealed as a part of efforts to find solutions and to provide much needing assistance.
00:08:27
Speaker
But in summary, the difficulty setting an exact number of the Palestinian refugees in Egypt are dealing with the compining of political, moral and logistical factors. But as the crisis continues, the truth scale of the issue will become impossible to hide. And addressing it will become a priority.
00:08:49
Speaker
If you're enjoying this podcast, please visit our website, al-shabaka.org, where you will find more Palestinian policy analysis and where you can join our mailing list and donate to support our work. Thank you for explaining that to us. And I think we'll come on to sort of the upcoming efforts to support Palestinians from Gaza and Egypt. But I wanted to first ask you about something you mentioned earlier, and this is the statuses that Palestinians in Egypt have
00:09:19
Speaker
As you mentioned, many of them begin on tourist visas, but there is no possibility to apply for residency or asylum or refugee status. So perhaps you can talk us through the different statuses that people have and what the possibilities are.
00:09:36
Speaker
Absolutely. And let me tell you, it's really tough and suffocating the situation for us. We don't have any real redundancy status. What we're getting is essentially an entry stamp extension for just 45 days. And this so-called redundancy allow us to move around within Egypt.
00:09:59
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But right now, all the Palestinian from Gaza are technically in violation because their 45 days period has expired.
00:10:09
Speaker
The last people who entered, that's all by 8th of May. So by the time we are recording this podcast, everyone is overstaying their welcome. Getting an actual Egyptian residency is almost impossible. Whether you are a student or you are an investor, you need approval from Egyptian authorities. And let me tell you,
00:10:34
Speaker
Almost all the applications get rejected. It's like you're hitting a brick wall every single time. So we are stuck. Really stuck. We don't have any rights. We cannot open bank account. We cannot receive money to a Western Union.
00:10:51
Speaker
Forget about applying travel anywhere, because we don't have an actual urgency in Egypt. This situation is an incredible for surrounding for all the Palestinian here.
Navigating Life in Egypt
00:11:04
Speaker
It feels like starting from scratch, but that starting point never change. It's like being in the loop with no way out.
00:11:14
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To make matters worse, the responsibility for our situation falls on the Palestinian authorities. Palestinian embassy in Cairo are practically useless. They're just a post office. They don't help anything.
00:11:30
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Imagine the emotional tool this taking. Families are thrown apart, people unable to plan their future, and there is a cloud of uncertainty hanging over us. We are living in a limbo with no right and no clear path further and with no way out, no right
00:11:52
Speaker
and no one is stepping up to fix the situation. It's like we are invisible with no real status and no hope of a change. The weight of this reality is crushing. It's really crushing and it's hard to hold on the hope when the system seems designed to keep you down.
00:12:15
Speaker
Ali, you described it as being sort of stuck in a loop or being in this perpetual sort of limbo status. You know, you describe the manifestations of that being unable to open a bank account, being unable to get some kind of legal status, get a job. I'm wondering if you can expand upon that, sort of paint a picture of what life, day-to-day life is like for Palestinians from Gaza and Egypt at the moment. And if you can touch upon as well how you feel Palestinians are being treated by Egyptians.
00:12:46
Speaker
There are definitely some pros and cons about our situation here in Egypt. The positive side, you can start a project or find work, which is relief. You can move around relatively freely without running into a trouble with the Egyptian authorities.
00:13:06
Speaker
Plus, there is no famine, here is food available, and that's something we deeply appreciated, especially since we are having none the fear of security back home. However, the negatives are overwhelming. The biggest issue we face is the high cost of living.
00:13:28
Speaker
Very few people take into account that we are Palestinian survival of the genocide. The housing problem is particularly severe. Monthly renting fees have skyrocketed. Ali, is that especially for Palestinians from Gaza? Does the rent change once people know that you are from Gaza?
00:13:51
Speaker
The real estate marketing has gone to the roof, particularly because the inflicts of the refugees, just like I told you, like us and the Sudanese, who are also here in millions. Finding a favorable accommodation is a daily struggle. The prices are just out of reach for many of us. There is a constant fear of not being able to source a place to live this situation about the housing issues.
00:14:20
Speaker
The job market is tough too. While you can't find work, it's often unstable and poorly paid, less than $100 per month, which makes it even harder to afford basic. Then there is a social aspect. While many Egyptians are kind to our case, you know,
00:14:41
Speaker
There are insistence where we face these combinations. It's stuff being seen as an outsider, especially when you are just trying to rebuild our life. You know the uncertainty of our legal status and to add resistors. We are always worried about what may happen next.
00:15:04
Speaker
We are grateful for the safety and the opportunity we have, but the constant struggle to make ends meet, finding houses and dealing with the legal uncertainties. To have it all and the uncertainty about the future is a constant source of the anxiety. The life in Egypt for the Palestinian from Gaza is mixed of relief and hardship.
00:15:30
Speaker
We are grateful for the peace, but the high cost of living, housing, challenging other social experience make it tough. We are just trying to hold and hope to find a way to build a better future despite this challenge.
00:15:49
Speaker
And as you mentioned, you're all genocide survivors. Many of you have had to leave behind family and friends. And I think that almost certainly adds to your anxiety and stress as you're trying to rebuild a life for yourselves.
00:16:05
Speaker
Ali, I want to ask you now about the ongoing humanitarian efforts to support Palestinians in Egypt.
Aid Efforts and Hopes for the Future
00:16:12
Speaker
We previously touched upon how there is no UN agency that has sort of taken the responsibility of care. Can you give us an outline of what is happening and who were the actors involved?
00:16:26
Speaker
Well, there is collecting effort and there is individual effort. There are some local institutions that help most of the Palestinian, for example, a food basket, rent payment, or even, you know, cash assistance.
00:16:42
Speaker
And most of them are toward local institutions or civil groups, some of which are Egyptian and some are non-Arabs. But they have a crisis as far as I know. They cannot have this continuum because the funding has begun to weaken more and more as the war continues. And most of the funding goes now to the project and to program inside Gaza.
00:17:11
Speaker
And not all the Palestinians in Egypt taking this assistant. I think who got in Egypt from November to mid of prior, their names as beneficiaries in local institutions in Egypt.
00:17:28
Speaker
But after that there is no Palestinian with any assistance because the list is going up and up and the funding is not stable enough and is not going enough for the groups or local institutions. Why was there that temporal cutoff between people who received assistance and then people who arrived after February?
00:17:52
Speaker
Not a decision, actually. It's like there is a lot of families in here. They cannot afford all the families. So they take the wounded who are crossing Rafah. This is the top priority for them. And the second who come earlier. But, you know, for me, for who come from March to this day, they ask about help, some assistance by the most of the answer from the local institutions. All the list is full.
00:18:19
Speaker
So we will put you in the waiting list. And you know, most of the funding is the current funding. There is no stability of it. Ali, amidst this really difficult and challenging situation, do you have any hopes for the immediate, medium and long-term future?
00:18:39
Speaker
You know, Yara, in this moment, I often find myself scrowing albums on my phone. Every picture brings back memories of a time that now feels like a dream, a distant dream. Even I managed to leave Gaza. I'm constantly hunting by a survival guilt, knowing that my family and my friends are still there, living devastations.
00:19:08
Speaker
The immediate future, my deepest hope is for this genocide, this war, to end. The violence needs to stop. People need a chance to breathe, to live without the concept of fear of bombing. I want to see immediate ceasefire and humanitarian aid reached to this who needs at the most. It's not just about survival. It's about giving people a silver of hope.
00:19:38
Speaker
A reason to hold on. In a medium term, I hope some stability and rebuild. We need infrastructure, homes, school and hospitals to be rebuilt. It's about creating an environment where the people can start to rebuild their homes, their lives.
00:19:58
Speaker
where the children can go back to school and families can live without consent of a treating of displacement. I also hope for a strong international support to ensure that we are not forgetting. But looking further into the long term, my hope is a lasting for peace and justice.
00:20:21
Speaker
I dream of a future where Palestinians can live with dignity, with full rights and recognitions. I want to see a world where our identity is respected, our history is acknowledging.
00:20:38
Speaker
It's about creating a future where my children and their children don't have the same hardships and can live freely in their homeland or anywhere they choose without fear. I dream of returning to Afigaza, where the alloys of children replaces the sound of war, where the family can gather without the shadow of conflict hanging over them.
00:21:06
Speaker
I want to see the future where there is a true justice, where this who have suffering are giving a chance to heal and rebuild their life. So this world must end. This is my immediate hope. Beyond that, I hold into my dream to be built of peace and a future where a Palestinian can live in a freedom and dignity.
00:21:32
Speaker
Ali, I think we'll leave it on those poignant words. We are so grateful for your safety and for you being able to share your experiences and your analysis with us. We hope to have you on another episode of Rethinking Palestine soon. It's my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much.
00:21:55
Speaker
Rethinking Palestine is brought to you by Ashabaka, the Palestinian policy network. Ashabaka is the only global independent Palestinian think tank whose mission is to produce critical policy analysis and collectively imagine a new policymaking paradigm for Palestine and Palestinians worldwide. For more information or to donate to support our work, visit al-ashabaka.org. And importantly, don't forget to subscribe to Rethinking Palestine, wherever you listen to podcasts.