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From Disappointment to Destiny: The Journey of a Lifetime | Mark Appel
72 Plays26 days ago
Mark Appel was once baseball’s brightest star—the phenom everyone was watching, the future of the game. In college, he had it all: talent, leadership, team respect, and opportunity. But things didn’t go as planned. On-field disappointment, surgeries, and an early exit from the sport could have defined him.
In this episode, Mark opens up about the highs and lows of his career, the deep grief of unmet expectations, and how his faith in God was his anchor. Through pain and uncertainty, he discovered that true security isn’t performance—it’s daily dependence on Jesus. Mark reflects on what real success looks like: relationships, integrity, and loving people well. He shares how his journey has reshaped his understanding of success and failure, and how his faith sustains him through life’s unknowns. This conversation is an inspiring reminder that even in loss and struggle, God’s presence and purpose remain.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Mark Appel's Journey
00:00:57
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
everybody, welcome Unstuck and Alive. I'm here with Mark Appel. Mark is working on his MBA down at UT. Notably, Mark played baseball for Stanford and then had a stint in the majors, playing for multiple different teams and even a comeback. I'm sure he'll get into some of that in his story. But most notably in in Mark's bio is he was a WayForward alumni in 2018.
00:01:22
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And so, Mark, we're excited to have you on. Thanks for your time today. Excited to jump into your story.
00:01:27
Mark
Yeah, my pleasure. Yeah, that's that's what most people are asking about on my resume. Like, tell me what tell me about this way forward thing.
00:01:31
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Absolutely.
00:01:33
Mark
Yeah.
00:01:33
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Come on. in You know, i first met Mark when we're on the back porch after your group arrived from from Houston. I think it was a trip from GBC. And, you know, we're playing cornhole. And i'm I'm used to just kind of dominating folks. You know, they're not used to the altitude. They're not quite, you know, they're a little nervous about their trip. Their head's in the wrong spot.
00:01:53
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And, uh, and Mark is just absolutely crushing me. And, you know, small talk, it's like, Hey, what do you do? And he said, you know, I bounced around in the minor leagues. And in my mind, it was like, you know, maybe, maybe that's what he, he's, he's got me there.
00:02:02
Mark
yeah
00:02:07
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
little did I know, uh, Mark had, uh, you know, had a prolific career as as a pitcher and some some fantastic eye-hand coordination. So i have I have since then known to not not put too much on the line for cornhole against pitchers.
00:02:23
Mark
That's right. You know what, where is it in the Bible?
00:02:23
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah
00:02:25
Mark
You know, pride comes before the fall, Todd. Yeah.
00:02:27
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Absolutely. so
Family, Faith, and Early Sports Interest
00:02:30
Mark
yeah opposite Nice. yeah
00:02:31
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
true.
00:02:33
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hey, there's – so believe it or not, there's there's two guys that that that, you know, in my history of 12 years of throwing cornhole around Wade Ford that have absolutely dominated me.
00:02:33
Mark
That's awesome.
00:02:42
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Both of them happen to be pitchers that played the majors.
00:02:44
Mark
good Yep.
00:02:44
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
So – Y'all's eye hand coordination is impeccable.
00:02:45
Mark
Yep. Sounds sounds all right. It sounds all right. Yeah.
00:02:50
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Well, Mark, thanks for being here. Excited to to hear your story. Why don't we just jump in? Kind of, you know, through your life, milestones, memories, like what's made you into the man you are today?
00:02:55
Mark
Yep.
00:03:00
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And then we'll we'll drill down in different areas of, you know, places you got stuck, how you found freedom in life and what you're up to now and and where the Lord's taken you.
00:03:09
Mark
Love to. Yeah, I'm yeah super happy to be here and share a little bit about of my story. i think for context, just understanding my family is going to be really important. You know, they've been such a huge influence in my life.
00:03:23
Mark
and then And then understanding just some of the cultural things that I, you know, grew up in. And then, you know, I moved when I was 12 to California. which was a big culture shock for me. So I was born in Houston. my My parents are, I think, just really faithful faithful followers of Jesus.
00:03:43
Mark
They raised me and my brother in the church. I went to Presbyterian church on Sunday mornings. I was at a private Baptist school Monday through Friday.
00:03:54
Mark
I lived in like the Bible Belt bubble. You know, I don't think I heard a bad word until I was like 10 years old. You know, I was as sheltered as they come. But me my brother were both really tall. We loved playing sports. He he was, you know, he excelled at basketball. That was really his main thing. And I played some basketball, but loved baseball.
00:04:14
Mark
and And so that was kind of our exposure to the outside world. and then we moved And then all that changed when we moved to California and started going to public school out there, just a little bit better school system and things like that.
00:04:28
Mark
And so that was, you know, my eyes were, I think, opened in a lot of areas of just like, oh, hearing about how guys might talk about girls in certain ways, being exposed to, you know, temptations and and and then being exposed to just like,
00:04:44
Mark
you know, the the allure of popularity and and trying to, you know, play the social game and all this other stuff.
00:04:48
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm.
00:04:50
Mark
And, you know, i think I think God drew me to ultimately through through a church in Northern California, kind of just drew me to himself to where,
00:05:02
Mark
I think in my high school years, that's where my faith, I would say, really became my own, where I considered what it meant to follow Jesus and no longer was looking to
00:05:08
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm.
College Years: Balancing Baseball and Faith
00:05:14
Mark
mom and dad to be that security or confidence of of my salvation or my faith.
00:05:21
Mark
And and then I think that just like doubled down when I went to Stanford to play baseball. And so As you can imagine, sports continued to grow in my life, got better and better and better in high school and ultimately found myself with a scholarship offer to play at Stanford, which was just surreal.
00:05:42
Mark
Growing up in Houston, I remember like my 12 year old year, which is that that year where you're in the Little League, you know, you're trying to go to the Little League World Series. It's like the Little League year.
00:05:53
Mark
I was baseball crazy. And that year Rice played Stanford in the college world series. And, and my dad, you know, pretty smart parenting move at this point just goes, Hey, these are two really good academic schools. So if you want to play at a great baseball school, you got to take your grade seriously.
00:06:13
Mark
and I, I took my dad seriously.
00:06:14
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:06:15
Mark
I was like, Oh, you know, in order for me to play in the college world series, I need to have great, you know, straight A's and all that stuff. So education and sports were like a really big kind of place of achievement in my life.
00:06:28
Mark
And something that I found success in and that ultimately led me to Stanford. When I was at Stanford, you know, Stanford's an interesting place because, and and I say this about my time in California, where I was like, i actually think got to see God in a more pure form than I, in California than I did when I was in Texas.
00:06:47
Mark
And a lot of that is because people go to church, not because it's the social thing to do you you know, or there's there's not a whole lot of social benefit to being a Christian in California.
00:06:58
Mark
And so it seems like the people that I did meet that were willing to express their faith in California had a sincerity and almost a purity to their faith that I think is is sometimes harder to find in Texas, you know, just because there's so many people that go to church and they go for all sorts of different reasons.
00:07:20
Mark
So I was really appreciative of that. and And I think Stanford really solidified that understanding because Stanford, you know, is not a place where people are talking, you know, it's not at texas a Texas A&M where, you know, the whole football stadium is filled up worshiping God. It's like,
00:07:40
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm. Hmm.
00:07:43
Mark
But I think God really met us there and and grew just a deep love and desire for him in our hearts and and our minds. I found a mentor who mentored student athletes.
00:07:55
Mark
And that was my first exposure, I think, to like real discipleship, like meeting with him every week, talking about life. following some of the ways in which he lived his life and trying to emulate his, you know, his love for Jesus and his approach to others and sharing the gospel and things like that.
00:08:14
Mark
So I'm really grateful for just all that, all that time, but that, that kind of led me to a place where i was ready to go into the real world. and baseball again was becoming an opportunity, a real opportunity to, uh, to play professionally.
00:08:30
Mark
And so I really put a lot of my eggs in that basket during that time. and so I was drafted in the first round after my junior year. I was the eighth overall pick. I was offered more money than I would have known what to do with.
00:08:45
Mark
And I ultimately decided to go back to school for my senior year. a lot of the reasons I made that decision, i mean, there were some education reasons, there were some relational reasons, there were some baseball
Professional Baseball Challenges and Setbacks
00:08:56
Mark
reasons.
00:08:57
Mark
But one of one of the ones that was, you know, I think driving me was I had a chance to be a leader on the team for another year and try to influence some of the younger guys on the team. And I had a chance to, you know, play in Omaha if we were ever ever able to get there, which we weren't like we did not make it to Omaha. And then I was also, you know, I think just able to spend another year with Jim, my mentor, and and and just continue to grow in in my faith and my love of the Lord.
00:09:23
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm. Wow.
00:09:29
Mark
that that That year, our our Bible study grew from like maybe six people to about 25 people on the team. We had this like really beautiful, like cohesive group of believers in Stanford athletics that we would all meet together on, you know, maybe once a month and and worship and pray together and just build community.
00:09:51
Mark
yeah Four of my teammates gave their life to the Lord that fall. like There were just so many things that I felt like God was really blessing what you know what our little, what our loaves and fishes, right what we were bringing to the equation. And it felt like he was multiplying it. And that was really like a really, really fun part of my life.
00:10:12
Mark
And then i got drafted again after my senior year and I was the first overall pick that year. And so it was like, man, everything's just amazing right now. This is so awesome. i'm I'm like, I feel like I'm at the top of my game. I'm playing the best baseball I've ever played. i have great relationships. Feels like I'm keenly aware of the presence of God and what he's doing in my life.
00:10:36
Mark
And then pro ball starts.
00:10:38
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:10:38
Mark
and and And that's where, yeah, and I think that's where things go a little interesting.
00:10:39
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hey, before... Before... before Yeah. Before we, before we jump into that, cause I know that's a huge part of your story. you know, if you were to just take a step back and say, Hey, you're going to, you know, you're going do an interview with somebody who played in the majors. They were the first, they you know, overall draft pick. They, you know, the year before they were the eighth overall draft pick. They had a, you know, a career in the major leagues.
00:11:04
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And you were to say in the first 10 minutes of the interview, they're going to talk about 10% about baseball. I think somebody would say, no way. like We live in a culture where you know if if you want to get to that level, it's got to be everything you eat, sleep, and breathe. It's got to be you know the thing you talk about all the time. We define ourselves by those things. and so As you're reflecting back, you know those those years in college, i mean you talk about a Bible study. You talk about your mentor, Jim. you know you're You're talking about guys coming to the Lord.
00:11:36
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
is that Is that reality when you're at Stanford or is that looking back at some of the highlights? Like when you were in school, were you was there like a really good balance on, man, baseball's great, but if it you know if it doesn't pan out, no worries. Or was it were you know were you obsessed with it, but now you look back and you realize, man, there was really some other things going on that were great too.
00:12:00
Mark
Yeah, that's a great, yeah, I think an astute observation because sometimes you can look back and and see the highlights and just remember the really great moments.
00:12:11
Mark
You know, i think some of the regrets that I might have is I didn't, my last two years of college, I didn't take my education quite as seriously. I didn't engage with maybe some of my classmates or professors and build those relationships as well.
00:12:27
Mark
you know, on a baseball front. Yeah. I was, I was obsessed. And I think in some ways, a little bit naive about what, life with God in sports should look like and, and feels like, I had a charmed college career in all honesty. I mean, I had struggles my freshman year and had some adjusting and and growing that needed to happen for sure. But like, by the time I left, I was widely considered the best player in college baseball. I was the top amateur draft pick.
00:12:58
Mark
I was expected to be in the big leagues and, you know, just a few years time and help the Astros win multiple World Series. And, you know, that was kind of the path that was panned out, you know, that was expected of me.
00:13:12
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah
00:13:13
Mark
But, you know, there obviously there that isn't exactly what happened in my in my life. But. Yeah, during during college, it I think it was marked by like deep faith, but also like a little bit of naivety in what it actually means to follow Jesus.
00:13:34
Mark
I had a I think a really sincere and pure heart.
00:13:34
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:13:37
Mark
in in my desire to follow Jesus, to grow closer to God. But as you know, and and and and many people that have lived long enough, and I'm still young, like I know I have many, many more years of learning and growing ahead of me.
00:13:52
Mark
But there comes a time where you you you meet failure, you meet true resistance, you meet the the the rock bottom moments of life.
00:14:02
Mark
and And
Identity Struggles and Faith in Adversity
00:14:03
Mark
it's like, all right, well, what do you have now? you know What is what is next?
00:14:07
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:14:08
Mark
where you know, those moments where like, where, where are you, God? It was like, I asked that question my freshman year when I had a bad game.
00:14:13
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:14:17
Mark
I'm like, where are you, God? You know, it's like, that's not, that's not life. That's not reality. You know, you know, it's like, oh, you've lost your job.
00:14:22
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:14:25
Mark
You've lost the structure in your life. You've lost, you know, a loved one unexpectedly. Like, in those moments where there's deep, deep grief, is like based in real loss, not just like, oh man, I, I didn't perform as well as I wanted to today.
00:14:38
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:42
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah
00:14:42
Mark
Yeah, the it just it just changes things. And I you know i i acknowledge like I had a little bit of a you know sheltered and protected life. like My parents were really great parents and they wanted the best for me. And they, I think, taught me good morals and values and instilled it like good work ethic and curiosity in me.
00:15:03
Mark
But I don't think it was until I really met adversity that...
00:15:08
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:15:08
Mark
things started to change. and and And again, over the years, it's like adversity comes in different forms and phases. And and each time youre you know you meet it, you dig a little bit deeper and you and you learn a little bit more about yourself and you learn a little bit more about God.
00:15:23
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:15:24
Mark
And hopefully it produces a faith that's, I think, more sincere, more pure. and And we ultimately look a little bit more like Jesus through those moments.
00:15:32
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:15:33
Mark
Like when I was 12, moving to California, that was adversity for a 12-year-old.
00:15:37
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah
00:15:37
Mark
Is that real adversity for you know a 40 or 50 year old who's got mountains of responsibility? No, it's not.
00:15:44
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:15:45
Mark
But it was it was a moment that helped shape my life and there there have been many, many more since and there will continue to be more as I go.
00:15:51
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
It's awesome. thanks for Thanks for sharing and just and and adding some color to that story.
00:15:58
Mark
Yeah.
00:15:59
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And man, I just think it's awesome. like I think it's awesome that you know you had a a you know career at Stanford that produced you know what what you said at the end, you know that that people would look around and say, that's the number one player in all of college sports.
00:16:16
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And at the same time, you're looking at that and saying, man, I had i had teammates come to the lore. like That is just it's a really cool thing to see. And I and i like the way you you know added commentary to you know Yeah, there was some naivety, but at the same time, you know you were building a foundation that when adversity came, you had something to stand on.
00:16:37
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
and you know That started with you know the way your parents raised you.
00:16:37
Mark
yeah
00:16:41
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
and you know i'm I'm firmly convinced that's our role as parents is to shelter our kids. It's like... yeah i don't I don't hear that as a negative thing. I hear that as, man, yeah you know yes, you know we don't throw our one-year-old out into the world to figure it out.
00:16:53
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
We shelter him until the time's right.
00:16:53
Mark
Yeah.
00:16:54
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
so Okay, awesome.
00:16:55
Mark
Totally.
00:16:56
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Well, keep keep going in the story. You're drafted number one overall. The bottle of champagne opens up. you know you're You're on the way to Houston, back to the motherland, and and and continue in.
00:17:02
Mark
oh
00:17:06
Mark
Yep.
00:17:09
Mark
Yeah, no, it was, yeah, it was kind of a high for me. It's like, man, graduated from Stanford, you know, I think in my last game or the second and last game of my career, i set the Stanford strikeout record.
00:17:23
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:17:24
Mark
You know, so it's like, I'm, you know, setting records at Stanford and winning awards and and now being drafted and getting a big signing bonus and all this other stuff.
00:17:30
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:17:36
Mark
and you know And then having the idea that's like, man, I'm going to be in the big leagues soon and going to be working. And looking back, you know hindsight's 20-20, and I'm able to have some perspective on a little bit of what happened throughout my career.
00:17:52
Mark
I think a key moment that may sound a little weird, from a physical standpoint, but it's like, I had an appendectomy in spring training of my first year in 2014. And, and after my appendectomy, like my performance started to suffer.
00:18:08
Mark
my body did not feel as good. My arm started to hurt more and more and more. looking back, I'm like, man, that's a really like, that that just feels like a cop-out, you know, or at the time it would feel like a cop-out to say that that was a significant moment, but looking back,
00:18:25
Mark
you know, and, and talking to doctors and working through some stuff that I had to do later in my career. you know, it, it was a fairly significant moment that I just wasn't aware of and how to rehabilitate that and make sure that I was like fully back to my, my peak performance.
00:18:42
Mark
and so over the years, like I started to compensate, when, when you kind of lose some of your core stability, you start compensating and my, my elbow started to hurt. Then my shoulders started to hurt.
00:18:54
Mark
not in an acute way where it's like, oh, there's one pitch I felt great. And then I threw a pitch and then, you know, then my, my, my Tommy John, you know, ligament, you know, ripped in half, which you hear that story sometimes.
00:19:08
Mark
that wasn't mine. It was like a slow progression over time that ultimately led me to my, you know, my first arm surgery in 2016. between that time, you know, I had worked my way up to triple
00:19:20
Mark
probably mostly on just the fact that I had had an incredible college career. I still had good stuff. my My command started to decline. Some of my performance on the field was really struggling, but they still wanted me to kind of move up and progress and feel like I had some momentum. But no one's going to give you the opportunity play in the big leagues just but based off of what you did yesterday. you know It's one of the most competitive industries, and and you have to be able to perform and help the team win today, right now, as it is. And they don't care whether you're the first pick or not drafted at all.
00:19:56
Mark
Like the best players are going to play. And so I wasn't playing, you know, even remotely close to being one of the best players to deserve that shot. And so the Astros ultimately traded me to the Phillies as part of a,
00:20:10
Mark
like seven or eight player deal. And I was kind of like thrown in there as, you know, this piece to get, you know, a relief pitcher for the Astros. But I was just part of this package where I think that was, that was a hard moment because i had dreamed of playing for the Astros when I was a little kid growing up in Houston. I,
00:20:31
Mark
grew up going to those games. And then, you know, serendipitously, i get drafted by the Astros first overall, like I'm now one of the top prospects and that like the dream of like having, you know, even like my parents and my cousins and my grandparents come to games while I'm playing there and living there.
00:20:38
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:20:46
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah
00:20:49
Mark
I think just, just shattered in that moment. yeah, you know it's like again adversity mark of kind of realities setting in like know this term life isn't always what it's you know like living a charm life is not always going to happen and and in those moments whenever it feels like things are serendipitous.
00:21:11
Mark
I just, i think I just appreciate them much, much more because I had so many of those growing up.
00:21:11
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:21:18
Mark
and And I guess they're, they're much like fewer and far between. So I was with the Phillies for two years, played in AAA both those years and hurt basically half, half the season both years. I had one injury that resulted in surgery and then another injury that needed surgery by the end of 2017.
00:21:40
Mark
And by then i was worn out, exhausted, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, just drained. I wasn't doing what I love doing. I wasn't playing. I wasn't on the field.
00:21:51
Mark
i was just perpetually trying to rehab and feel healthy again so that I could play. And then decided going into spring training of 2018 that I wasn't going to keep playing.
00:22:03
Mark
So I called the Phillies and, and,
00:22:03
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm.
00:22:05
Mark
told them, Hey, I think I'm done playing baseball. Like it just hasn't worked out for me. I can't stay healthy. I can't figure this out. I've worked really, really hard and done everything that I know how to do right now to be healthy and stay healthy.
00:22:20
Mark
And it's just, it's just not working. think I need some time to recalibrate, to get my mind right, to, you know, sir honestly seek the Lord and and see where, you know, where he's leading me.
00:22:34
Mark
and And maybe these are some circumstances that he's saying, Hey, baseball's not really going to be your path. And
Comeback and Personal Growth
00:22:39
Mark
and there's still hope and there's still opportunity.
00:22:40
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:41
Mark
And there's still things that like, you're not done yet. It's just, you might be doing something that's not what you thought you would be doing. And, and that can be a tough, tough pill to swallow at times too.
00:22:54
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
So what's what's going on internally during that? Because I think you know sports is such a unique deal. I mean, I you know i got the opportunity to play small ball, you know football in college, and you know playing playing football growing up was just a huge part of of life for me.
00:23:11
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
It's different than other hobbies. It's different than other careers because, you know, it's like it becomes so much of your identity and the physicalness of it, you know, is is is so closely tied to you know, how good you are.
00:23:27
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
It's like, you know, the...
00:23:27
Mark
Yeah.
00:23:28
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
how you perform exactly what you said. you know, it is, you know, i love, I love the saying, it's like, you know, you're not what you produce. Well, in sports, you are what you produce.
00:23:37
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
You what like it, it, it is. And so it's really hard not for that to become your identity. And so, you know, when you made that call to the Phillies, was that four years in to the bigs?
00:23:37
Mark
Yeah,
00:23:44
Mark
yeah totally.
00:23:51
Mark
Yeah, so I was I was basically I'd spent three parts of three seasons, but basically in AAA and then had, you know, two seasons before then. So this was after my fifth, you know, season of professional baseball 1340 1516 17.
00:24:01
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Okay. Fifth.
00:24:06
Mark
Yeah. And yeah
00:24:08
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. So what's your what's your mindset there?
00:24:09
Mark
and
00:24:10
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
I mean, are you struggling with feeling like a failure? Are you, i mean, just what, yeah, what's, if you pull back the curtain a little bit, what what's Mark's headspace look like?
00:24:19
Mark
Yeah, well, you know, after the 2017 season, my dad flew up to Pennsylvania where I was playing at the time. And, and you know, I had my truck up there and all my stuff.
00:24:32
Mark
And so i we loaded it up and he he loves road trips. And so he drove back to Houston with me and we just had a bunch of window time, as I call it, where we just got to talk and
00:24:42
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm. hu
00:24:45
Mark
watch the world go by as we were driving back to Houston. And, you know, i think I was, I was struggling. My dad's been a great influence and and mentor in my life. And I was just being honest with him and kind of being open and just telling him how much I was struggling. And, you know, he, he met me with so much, so much grace and encouragement that just reminding me like truth of like, Hey, I,
00:25:10
Mark
Like if I quote unquote fail at baseball based off of the expectations that were set on me when I was originally drafted and I don't meet those expectations, most people would call that failure.
00:25:22
Mark
My dad is like, that's not failure. Like, like in no way does this determine anything about your, your worth or value or anything like that. So like you need to understand, but you know, ultimately that, know,
00:25:35
Mark
What happens positively or negatively in the game doesn't determine anything about who you are and your self-worth. and And ultimately, our self-worth is found through what God thinks of us and how God...
00:25:52
Mark
and And we know exactly what God thinks of us because of what he did couple thousand years ago.
00:25:55
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:25:57
Mark
You know, it's like that.
00:25:58
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah
00:25:58
Mark
That's that's our that's our point of of just like remembrance of being like, oh, does God really love me? Yeah, he does. I can look to the cross. I can look to the empty grave, you know, and so that's that's a really great reminder.
00:26:08
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm. Yeah. yeah
00:26:13
Mark
My dad's been great in reminding me that. So. uh, you know, I've thought a lot about identity when it comes to sports and, and it's, I think simple for us to say, you know, I'm like the thing that we learned in like fellowship of Christian athletes or other things like that is like, you know I'm not a,
00:26:30
Mark
I'm not a baseball player, you know, who's a Christian or Christian. i'm I'm a Christian who happens to play baseball, right? And I think that's a beautiful thing to remember, hey, this is, but at the same time, like you still are a baseball player, you know?
00:26:37
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
For sure.
00:26:44
Mark
And think that,
00:26:45
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
for sure
00:26:47
Mark
i think that there is a connection, right, between, you you alluded to it, like your body, when you're an athlete, like the health of your body greatly affects your ability to go and do what you love doing on the field. And if your body's not healthy, then your ability to perform is not healthy, you know, is not strong. And, and, you know, and then your opportunities are going to be limited. and you know, it all might ultimately lead to not being able to play.
00:27:15
Mark
And so there, there seems to be a connection between who you are, what you do, how your body is, you know, how your mind is like, all of these things are really integrated.
00:27:15
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:26
Mark
And I think the way that God designed us and created us is not for us to be like sticks with a brain where if we think then all that's all we are. It's like, no, we have to do things with our, with our bodies, with our minds, with, you know, it's like, I'm,
00:27:39
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
hu
00:27:41
Mark
i'm I'm engaged, I'm not married, but it's like I got think about, you know, it's a weird weird thing to, i guess, allude to, but it's like, I imagine that most husbands and wives like don't find intimacy through thinking about their love for one another. But like there's physical ways in which you get to express your intimacy, right?
00:28:02
Mark
and And I think there's a depth that's obviously reserved for marriage and you get to explore that in in marriage. But it's the same way, I think, with all the things that we do. So it's like I found so much joy and even worship when I was playing baseball.
00:28:17
Mark
that was not just mental, but it was like a physical thing that I was like, Hey, I'm using my body to bring glory to the almighty.
00:28:17
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:28:26
Mark
And I want to do this as much as I can and to the best of my abilities, ultimately for his glory. And when you're limited in that ability because of your injuries and things like that, it becomes really hard.
00:28:38
Mark
And what I've ultimately landed on is like,
00:28:38
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:28:44
Mark
regardless of what you think or how you feel and even if you're like no i'm i'm a christian who just plays baseball so like baseball doesn't really mean that much to me it's like i don't know if that's necessarily the healthiest way to go about that identity conversation that would almost feel in some ways and it's not exactly the same but it's like hey you know i'm i'm todd and I'm married and I'm a dad, but I'm a Christian who has a wife and who has kids.
00:29:11
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:29:11
Mark
It's like, you're like, you love your wife and you love your kids.
00:29:16
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Right.
00:29:16
Mark
It's like, that's a huge part of your identity.
00:29:18
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:29:18
Mark
yeah. No. and and
00:29:20
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
and then in And then in sports at that level, i mean, you're talking about the most competitive people in the whole world.
00:29:20
Mark
that it
00:29:26
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
you know It's like you don't you don't get there because you go half-hearted.
00:29:27
Mark
yeah
00:29:30
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
you know there's There's lots of people that can throw a baseball, and and probably some of them really dang good.
00:29:31
Mark
no
00:29:35
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
But it's like you got there because you knew what it was like to work hard.
00:29:36
Mark
Yeah.
00:29:40
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
So you're not just – yeah, i'm I'm with you. it It sounds good. to like distance yourself a little bit.
00:29:49
Mark
Yeah.
00:29:49
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
But it's also like, dude, it's a, you know, whatever we're going after, man we want to go after a blood, sweat and tears. Like we want to be all in, especially if you see it as a calling.
00:29:56
Mark
Yeah.
00:29:59
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Like if if you feel like that's a calling that gives you a platform to share God's love with the world.
00:30:00
Mark
yeah
00:30:06
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And all of a sudden, you know, you're not able to strike guys out the way you used to. You're not able to get off the mound, you know, and, and, and be in control of the game.
00:30:11
Mark
Yeah.
00:30:15
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
it's like it just you know it It sends everything spinning.
00:30:18
Mark
Yeah.
00:30:19
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
and i love you know your dad Your dad's name's Pat, right?
00:30:19
Mark
Yeah. and yeah
00:30:23
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah, I mean, dude, if, you know, just to pause, one, I'm like, man, I you know i teared up when i was when when you're talking about the the road trip with your dad. You know, it's like, that's the dad I want to be. And and it's also, dad or not, it's like, everybody needs a pat-a-pel that can, you know, grab them and just say, hey, it's not who you are.
00:30:43
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
You know,
00:30:43
Mark
Yeah.
00:30:44
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
it We need to have things in which we go after, and if we don't get, there's some disappointment. I think that's just life. you know
00:30:53
Mark
Yeah.
00:30:53
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And then somebody that can grab us, put their arm around our shoulder you know on a road trip and say, hey, man, that's not who you are.
00:30:54
Mark
Yeah.
00:31:01
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
like you know You're not defined by that.
00:31:04
Mark
A hundred percent. And, and another thing I think that makes my dad special is that I knew that he was hurting with me as well. It wasn't, it wasn't this like, Hey, don't care so much about it.
00:31:11
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Oh, yeah.
00:31:16
Mark
It's not who you are.
00:31:16
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:31:17
Mark
It's like, it's like, like care deeply about it, grieve it, like be hurt by it, but remember,
00:31:22
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:31:25
Mark
It is ultimately not who you are.
00:31:25
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:31:27
Mark
And I think the things that are worth pursuing in life are the things that should hurt when they're lost.
00:31:35
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:31:35
Mark
Like, I can't imagine anyone caring deeply about something. And it was like, Todd, i I mean, part of the way in which you express your worship and glory to the Lord is through how you father and how you are as a husband.
00:31:49
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
okay
00:31:51
Mark
And so it's like, if if God forbid something were to happen to your family, it's like, It's not just like, oh, well, that's not who you are. It's like, no, that's that's ridiculous.
00:32:02
Mark
Like this is, you know, a really, really just, I mean, you should feel deep pain and and grief over that, right?
00:32:02
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:32:09
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:32:10
Mark
and And I don't want to equate baseball to that. But there is an aspect of like, hey, everything that I did and worked towards, even like,
00:32:23
Mark
let's just assume, you know, my motivations weren't always like, oh, I'm always doing it for the Lord. Like, like, of course I'm, I have my flesh that I have to deal with and wrestle with.
00:32:29
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:32:32
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Sure.
00:32:33
Mark
Right. But, on my best days, it's like I showed up to the field to love my teammates, to put in the work, to go in the weight room, to throw a baseball, to compete, ultimately because I knew that it was somehow, some way, in a mysterious way, bringing glory to the Lord.
00:32:52
Mark
And I got to participate in this part of my act of worship.
00:32:53
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm.
00:32:56
Mark
and And then now it's like this way in which I was able to worship the Lord has been removed from my life. the structure in which I you know, it's like, I don't have the, the 8am wake up call and I have to be at the field at nine and, and, you know, and I have these workouts and I have these drills and, you know, you know, practices and, you know, and then the, just the in-between time with the guys in the locker room. It's like, you lose all of that. It's like, you don't just lose the act of playing, you lose the structure, the relationships, all of this that goes into it.
00:33:27
Mark
And, And it leads you to a place of like, I think utter dependence on the Lord where you're like, you're like, okay I hurt because I've lost this, but I am not ultimately destroyed because I know that there is a God who is with me even in the pain.
00:33:44
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:33:45
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:33:45
Mark
And, you know, it's funny because, and I'll fast forward a little bit of my story where i ultimately spent that 2018 year, I went on a kayaking trip with, you Wes Braselton and some of the GBC people.
00:33:57
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:33:59
Mark
You know, my dad and I came out with a group from GBC for a way forward, you know, trip. And that was really special for me and my dad's relationship as well. Just because there's such an intimacy that you get when you're on the trail, being removed from technology and just getting to ask those deeper questions and doing that with my dad was really special.
00:34:13
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:34:21
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm.
00:34:21
Mark
But ultimately I decided that I wanted to try to play again. I felt like I had enough left in the tank to give it a shot, but I needed to go have surgery and, and figure out how to be healthy and stay healthy long enough to make it through a season or two seasons.
Redefining Success and Continued Influence
00:34:35
Mark
and And that led me to shoulder surgery, which led me to basically a two and a half year rehab process where I had a bunch of ups and downs, a lot of ambiguity, total uncertainty of whether I could even get back and play.
00:34:48
Mark
And that, you know Fortunately, I was able to like make it back and play again, went back and played a full season in the minor leagues and and then had a chance to come back for what ultimately became my last spring training or second last spring training where I knew like, like hey, this was the year where I – you know, this isn't like the feel good story of like, Oh, the comeback.
00:35:09
Mark
It's like, I still have to perform if I want to continue to play this game. ultimately got to play in 2022. And it's funny because 2022 was the year that I played the best. I had moved from being a starter to the bullpen.
00:35:24
Mark
I went in AAA and, and, you know I was like a middle reliever, like pitched two, three innings here. And then I was just so dominant that year that they're like, all right, well, let's put you in the seventh inning and the eighth inning. And then I became the closer in AAA. And you know in June, I had a sub two yeah erara I was like just striking everyone out. like My ball was moving. I was putting it where I wanted to. yeah I was like playing the best baseball i've played in 10 years and and then ultimately got the call.
00:35:52
Mark
on the On the flip side, like behind the scenes, I would wake up in the morning, I'd go find a coffee shop and I just spend an hour probably every day in prayer, journaling, reading, just like trying to spend time with Jesus.
00:36:06
Mark
And one of the books that I read during that time was Tim Keller's book called Walking with God Through Pain and Suffering. It's not one of his common books because the cover is black and it's about pain and suffering.
00:36:17
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:36:20
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. Hmm.
00:36:21
Mark
But and someone who loves Tim Keller, i think it's one of his best books. And, and it's, it gives such a great, like understanding about like, who is God in the middle of pain and suffering in your own life.
00:36:34
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:36:35
Mark
And I, I read it in a time when I was not going through pain and suffering. i was like, I'm healthy again. I'm playing baseball again. I'm playing it really well. I'm, I have great relationships on the team. Like things are going well circumstantially. And there I am reading a book about pain and suffering. And maybe it was just God helping me understand some of the pain and suffering I've already gone through. and then continuing to build a foundation for the pain and suffering I would go through in the future.
00:37:01
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah
00:37:02
Mark
because I get called up and I'm, I'm pitching well in the big leagues.
00:37:06
Mark
I feel like for the first time have momentum in my career and then I get hurt again. And that was kind of the beginning of the end where that led me to spring training where I was still injured, uh, needed surgery, got released.
00:37:19
Mark
And after I rehabbed my surgery, I was retired and, you know, now I'm in business school figuring out what's next for me. And, and I would say in some ways, the last couple of years have been harder than even that 2018 year where I was like worn out and emotional because, know,
00:37:32
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:37:36
Mark
Maybe in the back of my mind, I knew that like, I love baseball and I'm still young enough that I could go back and play if I wanted to. Now it's like, you know, I'm, I'm done.
00:37:42
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:37:44
Mark
And I'm, it's, it's final. Like there's no door that's going to be open for me. You know, unless I've just like, I'm a psychopath and decide to spend the next two or three years, like,
00:37:55
Mark
being crazy, like doing a rookie, you know, Dennis Quaid type situation. And I'm like, I don't have any desire for that. That seems terrible.
00:38:03
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Sure.
00:38:03
Mark
And the amount of sacrifice I have too many good things going on in my life to where just, I just, it's just not worth it.
00:38:04
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
oh
00:38:11
Mark
But I
00:38:11
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. You could be a poster boy for peptides make it possible, you know, just right.
00:38:16
Mark
yeah
00:38:20
Mark
i love it.
00:38:21
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
So, so, so two retirements before the age of 40, you know, not many people can say that. Sure.
00:38:26
Mark
No, yeah, I i guess, you know, it's funny.
00:38:27
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:38:31
Mark
I'm like, should i call the first one a retirement or or a break?
00:38:33
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
sure
00:38:35
Mark
At the time, it felt like retirement. I was like, I didn't pick up a baseball.
00:38:37
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah
00:38:38
Mark
i didn't do anything. I spent a week in the middle of the Colorado wilderness but not thinking about baseball. if I did think about baseball, it was like, all right, Lord, help me make sense of some of the things I've gone through.
00:38:52
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:54
Mark
And it's it's it's cool. It's cool now looking back because I'm like, I I'm starting to put the pieces together and see a little bit of a story, at least for the baseball part of my life.
00:39:01
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:39:03
Mark
And, I feel a lot of confusion and ambiguity about what the future holds for me, but I'm also like, if I have God, I'm like, it's going to be okay.
00:39:04
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:39:16
Mark
You know? And that's about the most secure thing that I have right now is just,
00:39:20
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:21
Mark
my my faith, my relationship with God.
00:39:24
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:39:24
Mark
So.
00:39:25
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Praise God, man. That's exciting. Thanks for thanks for sharing that story. i want to I want to dive in a little into that. I think it's the 2018 to 2022 period where you know you drive home with your dad, you decide, man, I'm done.
00:39:34
Mark
Yeah.
00:39:39
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
I'm i'm tired. this is not I don't love it anymore. And you're... you know And there's a lot in there. I mean, yeah, there's the physical component. I think there's also just the, you know, the the publicness of, mean, if somebody graduates number one in their engineering class and gets a job, you know, at a firm and it doesn't work out, it's like 10 people know, you know i mean?
00:40:00
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
There's just not that, you know, you were on the cover of Sports Illustrator magazine, you know, it's like people, people know. And so there's, there's layers of that, that it's just like, man, you know, that that you work through, know,
00:40:00
Mark
yeah
00:40:07
Mark
Yeah.
00:40:13
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And the Lord takes you, you know, you you went kayaking, you went on a backpacking trip, but you know, it's also, i mean, just a period of your life. I think you'll look back and say, that was the, that was the wilderness period. Like that was, that was some wandering.
00:40:26
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And God does a lot in those times. Like he works mightily in the periods where there's a lot of ambiguity, not a great path forward. You know, you ended up finding your path forward. What a story of, you know, just redemption and, and, and, you know, truly to get to stand on the mound and, and, and, you know, play in the, in the big leagues, like what an awesome conclusion, but I'd love to know, like, you know, you were stuck, you were, you were in a place where you didn't know, you know, what, what the future looked like the past, you know, 10 years didn't pan out the way you thought they would or seven or eight. And,
00:40:58
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
How did you find freedom in that? Like, what did what did rhythms look like? You know, just what advice would you give to somebody like just kind of hammer into that period and and pull back the curtain a little more of, of you know, what was your day to day looking like? And, you know, not not not how did you make the decision to come back to baseball? But but what did the decision look like, you know, to pursue the Lord and let go of some of the past and kind of have a fresh start?
00:41:25
Mark
Yeah, I think a big question that I would ask at the time is like, why? Why why am I doing what I'm doing? i think that's an important question to ask ourselves periodically, you know, just remembering like, hey, let's keep first things first.
00:41:42
Mark
And and if you don't have, you know, i i forget who said it, but it's like,
00:41:43
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:41:49
Mark
Maybe it was something in kind of like the Viktor Frankl story, right? Where he he's a Jewish man in Nazi Germany that and he writes this amazing book, Man's Search for Meaning.
00:41:57
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:42:01
Mark
And i don't I don't want to misquote him or or or even attribute him this quote if, it wasn't him, i I wish I was more prepared on my quotes, but he basically said like any any man can create a how or get through whatever it is if he has a why.
00:42:19
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. Yep.
00:42:22
Mark
and And so the why is one of the most important things. And gotta ask myself like, all right, this is a really, really tall task to go through surgery later in your career
00:42:35
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:42:36
Mark
rehab a surgery, not under any contract, going you know out of pocket for most of my expenses, flying all over the country to see different specialists and things like that, you know doing X, y and z And so like,
00:42:47
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm.
00:42:52
Mark
i think I think there was just you know a lot that was being sacrificed for it. And if the why wasn't there, then it's like, well, why why why would you sacrifice if if you don't know why you're sacrificing?
00:43:04
Mark
And for me, the perspective shift changed of like, I knew that I wanted to play baseball because I wanted to worship God. And what I thought that meant was I would have greater and greater platforms to share my story which my story is going to be the story of how God has impacted and influenced my life, how he saved me from myself.
00:43:27
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:43:27
Mark
He saved me from sin. He's given me opportunity. And, you know, it's it's a great story. It's the story of like, oh man, God meets someone when they're struggling and now he elevates them to a higher place in which, know,
00:43:40
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:43:42
Mark
People can know his his name.
00:43:44
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:43:45
Mark
but And that's what I thought my story was becoming. And then it's like, all right, well, the places that I'm being put are actually lower and lower and lower. and And so that was that was a perspective shift of like, all right, well, why am I playing baseball?
Reflections on Baseball and Future Aspirations
00:44:02
Mark
I thought it was so that I could be good enough to get to the next level so that I can influence more people for the Lord.
00:44:10
Mark
And again, that was on my best days when I felt the most holy or whatever it was. A lot of times it's like, oh, well, that also has some other benefits of more money and more fame and you know all these other things. And so a big why for me during those 2018 2022 years was realizing that Part of my story was that I struggled through the minor leagues. I had higher expectations than just about anybody. I had more public failure failure than just about anybody.
00:44:41
Mark
I had an interview with a a writer for Bleacher Report at the time, and he wrote an article and he texts me the morning the article's posted and he goes, FYI, I did not write the title or the headline of the article.
00:44:54
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Huh.
00:44:55
Mark
And so I look at it and goes, you know, it was like why Mark Appel the biggest bust in baseball history is retiring at 26, you know? And then he texts me that evening.
00:45:07
Mark
He's like, this is one of the best articles, like from a click perspective, like just the numbers, like more people are reading and sharing this than we could have ever imagined.
00:45:14
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:45:16
Mark
maybe Maybe the title was you know pretty helpful on the on the clicks or whatever.
00:45:20
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Sure.
00:45:22
Mark
But it it was it was just this realization. was like, wow, I was at the peak, out of college, high expectations. I was at the bottom, public failure. Everyone knows that story in the baseball world.
00:45:34
Mark
And now I have an opportunity to be back in minor league clubhouses. And these are... young men that are seeking ultimate pleasure and, and ultimate peace and ultimate happiness through a game that is fragile, that is not fulfilling, that is not satisfying.
00:45:44
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm.
00:45:53
Mark
And I know because anyone in that locker room, I can confidently say I had more higher expectations, you know, and I had a greater public failure than any of them.
00:46:05
Mark
And I, and because of those experiences, my why became like I prayed every, almost almost every day. Like one of my consistent prayers was like, Lord, prepare the hearts of my teammates that I'm going to be with. If I ever make it back to a professional clubhouse, because I want to love them and then give me the courage and boldness to be able to, to have conversations and share my story and talk about how you have, what you've done in my life.
00:46:34
Mark
and impact them in a positive way. and And so that was a big reason for my why of being in the clubhouse. It wasn't necessarily going and performing on the field. It was like all the other stuff that I i was just like the the gold of my time in the minor leagues that I missed out on because I was so focused on the struggles of my performance.
00:46:52
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:46:54
Mark
And so it changed my perspective completely.
00:46:55
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:46:56
Mark
and it gave me a refreshed heart of like what success looks like for me the second time around is not performance on the field. but it's relationships in the clubhouse and investing in those people.
00:47:06
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Wow. well
00:47:08
Mark
and And that's something I've actually even brought as I took a new step of faith in doing business school. It's like, all right, well I have classmates that are coming from all different walks of life and, you know, internationally and in here in the States and stuff like that. It's like, that has been a prayer. It's like, hey, Lord, prepare the hearts that I may, that they may be receptive to you and prepare, you know, give me the courage and boldness to be able to talk to them and, you know,
00:47:34
Mark
just share the goodness, share your goodness with them and your love for them.
00:47:38
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:47:38
Mark
So yeah,
00:47:40
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm.
00:47:40
Mark
it's It's totally changed like how I've, I think how I've seen what success and failure kind of looks like in my, in my life right now.
00:47:47
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:47:48
Mark
But yeah, it was, it was rife with just uncertainty and ambiguity and just like kind of a daily dependence on Jesus.
00:47:52
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:47:56
Mark
Cause it's like, well, I don't know what tomorrow's going to look like, but if I have enough for the day, then I guess that's all I really need, you know?
00:48:04
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Hmm. Yeah. Hey, what do what do people want to talk to you about? Like, I'm so curious about the the that article being the most, you know, high highest opened.
00:48:16
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
You know, it it draws people in when When people pull you aside, what do they want what do they want to talk about?
00:48:23
Mark
they I mean, they usually want to hear a story from baseball. I think that's super interesting. and You know, sometimes they want to ask about some of my experiences.
00:48:34
Mark
And, you know, I was always interested in other things as well, like, doing random investments in stupid businesses or whatever it was, traveling.
00:48:43
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:48:44
Mark
Like I got a camper van, you know, a few years back. And so it's like just doing kind of random, you know, trips and, and you know, stuff like that. So Most people are curious about baseball.
00:48:58
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:49:04
Mark
And so I'm doing interviews and the guy interviewing me is like, oh, wow, I saw you play baseball. Like, tell me a little bit about your experiences there. So like, it's just unique and interesting.
00:49:12
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:15
Mark
But it's funny because it's like, i i I think sometimes that there's a lot to my story that some people will expect one thing. Like you said, hey, you know you're talking a baseball player and he's just talking about other things besides baseball.
00:49:33
Mark
you know I think that's been a pretty common theme to where i want people to know me not as the baseball player or not as you know x Y, and Z, but just like,
00:49:37
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:49:44
Mark
know me as how god's created me and designed me and that i think requires a little bit of faith and vulnerability and sharing some of the struggles that you've gone through because i can't explain why i am who i am without without explaining some of the harder points in my life and then explaining how god has shaped and molded my mind and my heart to be more conformed to his will
00:49:47
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Sure.
00:49:56
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:50:11
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. That's interesting. i I just had the thought when When you were sharing that, I wonder if people that read the headline to the article didn't think to themselves, that describes me, and I'm curious how this guy is going to work his way through it.
00:50:34
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Because, you know, we we follow athletes and we put them up on a pedestal because it, it you know, it's it's like it's like a drug. It's like drinking too much. You know, it just kind of gets us out of our day to day. It's like, man, if I can, you know, fall in love with this quarterback and, you know, just watch him play on Sundays, it's like I can i can escape from reality.
00:50:54
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
But I think deep down, you know the the the headline to that article describes how we really see our lives. Like, man, if you close the door, you know we think I'm a complete failure.
00:51:07
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
you know I'm screwing everything up. If you knew me the way that I knew me, you'd never want to have this conversation with me. you know Man, if I like i can't even you know can't even keep the four-letter words in my mouth when my kids mess up. I mean we think all these things.
00:51:21
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
and And I wonder if, you know, that, you know, the Lord's not going to use that that season of your life that you went through to break down walls for people.
00:51:32
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Because it's like, yeah, I've had public failures. You know, I've had more, but you can tell them I've had more public failures than you. Like, man, let's talk. And I don't know, that's just interesting. Like, sure, we you know, we're all going to read.
00:51:44
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And that's a yeah that's absolutely a catchy headline. You know, whoever wrote it, one should be taken out back and slapped.
00:51:48
Mark
Yeah, for sure.
00:51:50
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
But second, should be. You know, it's like he he knew what he was doing.
00:51:52
Mark
Also get a promotion in some ways.
00:51:53
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Sure. you Sure.
00:51:54
Mark
He's doing his job. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:56
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. But I wonder, I mean, it's just like we we just don't we celebrate success and we don't talk about failures. And I think that's what happens on trail is you sit around the circle and you hear these people talk and you're like, dude, no way.
00:52:04
Mark
Yeah.
00:52:11
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Like, I thought you had it all together. You know, I i look at you at church and I see your family. Man, I thought you would, you know, I thought you were the the perfect human being. And now you share your story and you create these much deeper bonds.
00:52:23
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And I think something happens like that of, you know, you you see this person that, oh, wow, he didn't reach his potential. And it's like, yeah, neither have I, you know, and and i I just wonder if that makes it more relatable.
00:52:31
Mark
yeah
00:52:33
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
So, but, yeah.
00:52:36
Mark
I, I think people are interested in failure because I think everyone, everyone identifies with it at some point and like, uh, we,
00:52:44
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Totally.
00:52:48
Mark
every person knows their failures more intimately than anyone else out there. And just a little bit how we're wired is like, we focus more on those than we do our successes.
00:52:54
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Totally.
00:52:59
Mark
We have this expectation that, you know, we put in the work and we do X, Y, and Z, then like things are going to go well. And, and like, Maybe we've believed a lie that's like, you can do anything you put your mind to and you know you gotta believe it and you'll achieve it and all of this other stuff.
00:53:11
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:53:15
Mark
It's like, man, those are really catchy, like bumper stickers. Like i I'm for catchy motivational things, but when it it crosses the line of like setting up expectations that are so unrealistic, we're setting up ourselves for a deep level of disappointment.
00:53:19
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:53:33
Mark
And that disappointment can be really, really difficult to to deal with. And I'm not saying I'm an, I mean, I guess I'm an expert in some ways of of like large disappointments, but I still am figuring out how do I deal with disappointment?
00:53:47
Mark
Because there will be disappointment in my future, whatever it is.
00:53:48
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:53:51
Mark
Like I haven't had kids. Like i I can only imagine how Many times, like there's you know you're like, gosh, you're trying to teach your kids something, and and it feels like they're learning, and then they just go and do the opposite thing.
00:54:04
Mark
And you're like, like man, is there something wrong with me? like Why are they not responding? how I want them to respond.
00:54:09
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Sure.
00:54:10
Mark
you know Or at at your workplace, or in in your marriage, or your relationships, or whatever it is. It's like, there's just... expectations and disappointments.
00:54:20
Mark
I don't think the answer is like, just expect that things go poorly, they will therefore never be disappointed.
00:54:21
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:54:26
Mark
It's like, no, do your best and and and and expect that things will go well, but know that they might not and know that really, really well and be prepared for when they don't and don't be shaken by it.
00:54:35
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:54:40
Mark
you know Don't be surprised by it.
00:54:41
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:42
Mark
Know that that's part of, and and maybe the most helpful thing I can provide is like, whenever I've seen disappointment, like I see it more as opportunity for growth and for getting to grow closer to Jesus.
00:54:54
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah
00:54:57
Mark
Like if that's the thing that puts us on our knees more than like, praise God, because you're on your knees praying to Jesus, you know? Like I have a good friend who we just went through consulting interviews. That's like the big thing in business school, your first semester. It's like, you're trying to get an interview for the summer internship and A lot of times that summer internship goes well and you get a full-time job after that. Consulting pays really well. People are investing in their schooling. So like getting a consulting interview and then an offer after the interviews is like a really big deal.
00:55:29
Mark
i have a classmate who I'm close with and he got one interview invite and then he got rejected after the interview. He's really disappointed. Like I just know it. You can feel it. Like you talk to him and he's like, he's sad and just broken up about it.
00:55:44
Mark
And in my mind, I'm like, oh man, like this is, this is the sweet stuff for you. Like, this is where you get to, you get to dig deep.
00:55:49
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:55:51
Mark
You get to, you know, figure out what you're made of. You get to see five years from now, how this rejection open the door for the thing that was gonna be better for you all along.
00:56:03
Mark
But you don't have, you know, when you're in the weeds and you're in the thick of it, you don't have that experience and you don't have that perspective. And so like, I think it's my job to walk alongside with him, hurt with him, grieve with him,
00:56:15
Mark
but also encourage him and say, man, keep going because all the work you did to even get to that point was really good work. And that will compound.
00:56:23
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:56:24
Mark
And at some point you're going to feel, you're going to be able to see how none of it was in vain just because you didn't get this offer. You know what I'm saying?
00:56:33
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:34
Mark
And so I think that's true for all all sorts of, you know, all walks of life, all areas of your life, all disappointments.
00:56:36
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Amen.
00:56:41
Mark
It's like, keep going, like, just keep going and and and and know that like, don't think that everything's okay if things aren't, but it's like, just know that even if they aren't okay, ultimately they will be.
00:56:44
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Yeah.
00:56:53
Mark
And just keep keep one foot after the other.
00:56:54
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:56:56
Mark
And sometimes it gets really hard and your feet feel heavy. And sometimes you're you know, feeling like light as a feather and you you just are running so fast, but yeah.
00:57:07
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
That's good, man. That's rich stuff. and And Mark, I can tell you the the thing I admire about you, and I and and you know i don't know no we haven't overlapped a ton, but it's it's clear in somebody when you meet them, you've got a humility that just you it oozes out of you. that
00:57:24
Mark
Hmm.
00:57:25
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
you're grateful to be around people like the, gratitude for where the Lord has you, like, it's just there. And man, I, uh, I'm grateful for that.
00:57:30
Mark
Yeah.
00:57:32
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Thanks for, thanks for sharing your story, uh, with us. Thanks for, yeah, diving deep in, in some areas that some people would cover up or pretend like didn't happen. And man, you are, you really are using that as an opportunity and and leveraging that.
00:57:46
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And what a gift that'll be to the, to the world, you know, that, you know, the, the, next two thirds of your life that you'll get to have that as, you know, you, you help people see the hope, uh, even when they feel like hope is gone.
00:57:57
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
And so, uh, thanks for that.
00:57:58
Mark
yeah
00:57:59
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
How, uh, are you active on social media?
00:57:59
Mark
No, thank you.
00:58:02
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
How can people follow you? I have no doubt that, you know, whatever you do after business school, that that ministry is going to be a part of it. So we'd love for people to be able to find you and connect with you.
00:58:13
Mark
i love I love the idea of like being able to plug my socials, but I've been off social for a few years and it's been it's been great.
00:58:20
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Come on.
00:58:22
Mark
I think it's just been, yeah, I don't have, I mean, there's a lot of science and research about the dangers of social media, but I think for me, it was just becoming a distraction and and a comparison tool that wasn't healthy.
00:58:29
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
Oh, yeah.
00:58:48
Mark
but, uh, but no, no social media, no place to follow me. know, if I end up, you know, starting something, then, you know, I guess I'll, I'll start it.
00:58:57
Mark
But for now, flying under the radar and I'm enjoying it.
00:59:00
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
There you go. You got to go walk the halls of UT business school to find Mark Appel.
00:59:03
Mark
That's all right. That's all right.
00:59:05
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
yeah Well, Mark, thanks for your time, man. We've been blessings on your future marriage and you're going to be an incredible dad with that with a great role model plus the experience of life.
00:59:11
Mark
Thank you.
00:59:16
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
You're going to bring it into your yeah your role as as a husband, as a dad. So thanks so much for your time today. I know it'll be a blessing for the folks to get to hear it.
00:59:25
Mark
Yeah, thanks thanks, Todd. I really enjoyed it.
00:59:27
Todd Pinkston & Steven Neuner
You bet.