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Stop Trying to Be the Apostle Paul: Faith and the Business World | Michael Manthei
2 Playsin 5 hours
Michael Manthei walked into the podcast and dropped one of the most unusual real estate stories we've ever heard.
Out of twenty deals, three went south. The investors were sophisticated. They knew the risks. Nobody asked him to do anything. So he sent each of them a letter telling them he and his wife had decided to work toward making them whole, and quoted John 15:13 in the letter. His CPA and lawyer said they'd never seen anyone do it. He didn't expect every investor to accept the offer. Every one did. He's making quarterly payments.
The letter was one moment in a conversation that kept turning where I didn't expect. Michael talked about giving up his mission-field dreams because God told him the most noble life isn't trying to be the Apostle Paul. He talked about hitting financial independence in his early 30s, taking a week off, and realizing God hadn't built him for an easy chair. He talked about why he doesn't say "amen" at the end of his prayers, and why his kids don't either.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Michael Manthe
00:00:56
Steven J. Neuner
Hey guys, welcome back to another amazing episode of Unstuck and Alive. Today we've got really a special treat. We have someone that you meet those people sometimes in life where you just, you immediately know and can sense that there's just something different about them.
00:01:16
Steven J. Neuner
And I've had this great privilege to to meet our guest today, Michael Manthe.
00:01:18
Todd Pinkston
Thank you.
Transformative Life Change
00:01:24
Steven J. Neuner
And just right from the start, I just knew that there was something I loved about the guy and i I couldn't quite put my words on it. But the longer I spent time with them, the more it was really clear to me that the guy has a great love for for Jesus. And so as I continue to get to know him, I i I've just seen him live in a way that's very unstuck and alive. So I'm just really, really grateful to introduce my my friend, Michael Manthe. And but let's let's get into you a little bit, Michael.
00:01:56
Michael Manthei
Yeah. that Thank you, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Appreciate the the kind words and and similarly really respect you and have loved learning from you and seeing the the model of loving Jesus in the workplace and being a positive light to other people.
00:02:14
Michael Manthei
Really respect that about you, Stephen.
00:02:16
Steven J. Neuner
Thanks, man.
00:02:16
Todd Pinkston
True.
00:02:16
Steven J. Neuner
Well, what but you've got an incredible, I mean, you're married, you've got four kids, you're a real estate investor. Yeah, I mean, you've got, what we're going to get into all the things that you're up to.
00:02:27
Steven J. Neuner
But I would love, but you know, beyond the resume, i I would love to just hear about the, you know, the the the two or three things that kind of come to mind that really, really make you who you are.
00:02:39
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
00:02:43
Michael Manthei
Boy.
00:02:44
Michael Manthei
So for me, anytime I talk about my story, I feel like I have to go back to the summer after high school. I found my brother's drugs when I was 12 and kind of jumped in to that whole world with both feet. So 12 18, 19 were eighteen nineteen or a blur and in in not good ways.
00:03:10
Michael Manthei
And yet, when I was younger, i had some experiences with God where I knew he loved me, I knew that the choices I was making was more hurting him versus, you know, if you want to be some with someone and they don't want to be with you and they're hurting themselves, you know, that isn't easy to watch. And I felt like that was his position. But I was very conscious in my desire to do what I wanted to do. And, you know, at that point, religion to me was a list of do's and don'ts. And I didn't have any, any desire to put on this external shell that was different than what I was experiencing inside.
00:03:52
Michael Manthei
So I started, I started selling drugs, the summer after high school, and yet at a party, it was my going away party.
00:04:02
Michael Manthei
You know, when someone is consciously against God, most of our opinions of who God is make us think that that should bring a lightning bolt or tripping in front of a bus. It's like, I don't want anything to do with you. It's like, okay, well, you know, take this. Instead, he visited me at that party and absolutely changed my life.
00:04:30
Michael Manthei
So I'm at this party. And all all I know at the time is everything just starts to change around me. It's my going away party. I'm supposed to be the life of it.
Hearing and Following God's Voice
00:04:39
Michael Manthei
And instead, i go and sit in this chair. I close my eyes. And it was like I was taken
00:04:47
Michael Manthei
in a third person perspective. It wasn't like I was out out of my body, but it was like I was I was in this experience where he he took me, and Jesus was beside me, and he showed me my life. And it was this downward black spiral into darkness. And I'm watching this realizing there's zero benefit or good.
00:05:14
Michael Manthei
there's no it's When I see it from that perspective, it's not fun. It's not like a good time. It's just dark and black. And I watch this for a couple of minutes and I finally tell the people at the party, hey, I got to go take care of something. I leave the party, go home, break apart like a baby. I'm sobbing.
00:05:34
Michael Manthei
ask God to forgive me. And it was just like, it was it was a physical sensation of like a thousand pounds getting lifted off of my chest.
00:05:46
Michael Manthei
And I went from being depressed to being joyful in the blink of an eye. I had tried to stop using tobacco and alcohol and drugs multiple times through my teenage years there. If I made it 48, I don't even think I made it 48 hours. might've made it 24 one of the times.
00:06:04
Michael Manthei
24 hours before going right back to it. All that stuff just broke off me. Was not hard, didn't have another craving.
00:06:15
Michael Manthei
And so I've always been kind of an all or nothing type person. So ever since then,
Ministry vs. Business Calling
00:06:21
Todd Pinkston
Thank you.
00:06:23
Michael Manthei
I just, I was, I was coming with everything.
00:06:25
Michael Manthei
And So pretty quick, I'm like, hey, why am I in America when there's, I think I heard some statistic on the the state of world evangelism, and they're like a billion people haven't even heard the name Jesus. So I'm like, what am I doing here in America? Anybody can go to any corner and ask about God to a church you know on basically every corner.
00:06:50
Michael Manthei
i'm like i'm gonna go to africa live in the dirt eat bugs like who cares i just i want to do something eternally significant and i'm i'm reading in my bible shortly after that and i read the passage where it says i desire obedience above sacrifice and that just like stopped me and i'm like so i'm willing to sacrifice in my mind i'm willing to sacrifice at all but you'd rather have my obedience Well, to me, that means communication and you can't have a I knew enough that it wasn't we we weren't called to have a relationship with a book like some people.
00:07:27
Michael Manthei
It's just, you know, it's all about the book. And and I love the book, but the books to lead to a person and to a real relationship.
00:07:30
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:07:36
Michael Manthei
So I knew that we had to have communication. And so I just I said, I'm I'll only go where you tell me to go and do what you tell me to do. and uh the process of learning his voice was interesting had about 10 years where i just pray for everybody everywhere i went and try to find out if what i felt this voice inside if what i was hearing was true or not and you know
00:08:07
Michael Manthei
Yeah. the At the beginning, it was I was mostly wrong about stuff. And then toward the end, i was mostly right. But you know just getting to know his voice. And you know I thought the dream was being in ministry. you know That's all I cared about. And yet he asked me to go into business.
00:08:28
Michael Manthei
This was in my 20, I was 20 years old. So I started this business, but Every day in my mind, because of my programming, I believed I was a second class citizen in the business world where the really noble people were on the mission field.
00:08:41
Steven J. Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:08:45
Michael Manthei
And that was even though nobody had ever said that, that was my internal view. So I started a business because I felt God tell me to in prayer. But yet I still feel like I'm second class in heaven's perspective.
00:09:00
Steven J. Neuner
hey
00:09:00
Michael Manthei
So I had the business for years, learned a lot, was grateful. And then I felt like I heard him say, hey, we can we can pursue this ministry dream, which was a dream come true for me.
00:09:12
Michael Manthei
So I did a ministry school, joined a ministry over about seven years, traveled to 20 some countries and wouldn't trade it for the world.
00:09:23
Michael Manthei
But through that process, finally healed enough inside and felt like the Lord said, hey, the most noble, you know, I'm trying to be live the highest life I can, the most noble life I can from heaven's perspective.
00:09:40
Michael Manthei
I felt them say, the most noble life you can live is to be who I created you to be and stop trying to be the Apostle Paul because I think that's who I was you know trying to be. And so ever since then, as he's led me back into the business world and the finance world,
00:09:58
Michael Manthei
I can do it with a
Obedience and Faith in Business
00:09:59
Michael Manthei
full heart. I am totally aligned. I'm convinced I'm right where he has me to be.
00:10:03
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:10:06
Michael Manthei
And i could be in Africa preaching and I wouldn't feel any more in alignment with with heaven. And, you know, the Bible says that he who tries to save his life will lose it and those who lose their life will save it.
00:10:22
Michael Manthei
And if we've if I've truly given my life to the Lord, then it doesn't matter what he leads me into. And I need to, it's, it's been a process for me to yeah be okay with, Hey, there was a certain satisfaction and also perspective in other people's eyes that when I'm traveling the world for ministry, wow, he's living his life for God.
00:10:46
Michael Manthei
And yet now here we are in business and able to have uh, an awesome impact. But it goes against the old programming of, hey, you know, what you do on the outside can be compared to what somebody else does. And it's just not true. we We all have to be living who God is speaking to us to be on the inside.
00:11:12
Steven J. Neuner
So a couple of, thank you, man. So just a couple of things. One, like, do you have any sense? I mean, like you said, it like of where that programming came from? i mean, cause I, that really resonated with me. Certainly as I was a series of time in my journey as well.
00:11:29
Steven J. Neuner
Probably still creeps in sometime, quite honestly. But I'm curious, like, if you've if you've identified where where that trap came from.
00:11:39
Michael Manthei
Like I said, i don't I never heard anyone say it and I don't think they would. But for me growing up in church and, you know, seeing anyone go to the mission field, even on a short term, like they're brought up on stage. Everybody's praying for them. Everybody's celebrating them.
00:11:56
Michael Manthei
We're giving our money to support them to go.
00:11:59
Michael Manthei
I never saw a business leader get brought up on stage and say, hey, this person's taken on an expansion. They're going to provide for more people. They feel God's leading them to step out in faith for this or that.
00:11:59
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:12:10
Michael Manthei
I never saw any of that. So again, it wasn't it was just this unspoken value system. And you know it's it's human nature to compare ourselves to other people. it's It's not the nature we're to live out of, but it's human nature to compare ourselves to each other and try to see who's whatever got there got their stuff together. And so I think, yeah, all of all of that mixed in where, you know, it's it's interesting and and at the beginning, the Garden of Eden, they weren't even supposed to eat from the knowledge of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
00:12:47
Michael Manthei
Like we weren't even supposed to decide, hey, I'm doing the right thing. You're doing the wrong thing. Like that whole judgment thing. We just were supposed to walk with God and be who we made us to be. And if we could get back to that, that would be that would be cool.
00:12:59
Michael Manthei
But we got to heal through some of the other layers that get on top.
00:13:01
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:13:03
Steven J. Neuner
and And the follow up to that too is the the thing that struck me in what you were sharing is that that quit trying to be the apostle Paul, right? And it's literally, yeah you know, he who tries to save life will lose it and who to try to lose it will save it, right? Well, it's like you you have this incredible experience, like to your point, and then all these things break free, you're like fully alive. And then there's like, well,
00:13:27
Steven J. Neuner
I need to go be like the apostle Paul. Right. Cause you, I mean, that's almost an apostle Paul type. I can see it because it's like an apostle type conversion experience. Right. but then like to, to, to experience that, like, Hey, I stopped trying to be the possible you're trying to almost sound like, almost like you're trying to, I don't put words in your mouth, but like save your own life again. Right.
00:13:49
Steven J. Neuner
Through some sort of performance.
00:13:50
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
00:13:51
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah.
00:13:52
Michael Manthei
Yeah, define it and live it, you know, but that's all. That's not trust. You know, that's not trust. That's not fully yielded. So.
00:14:01
Steven J. Neuner
T.
00:14:02
Todd Pinkston
Yeah. So Michael, when you, see around 18 was the, was the time where you had the vision of life spiraling down. You feel like your eyes were open to, to see truth in that. Would you say there was just a natural overflow to man, if this is truth, I just want to share it with people. Like that's just, it's, it's life changing for me. I want it to be life changing for them.
00:14:27
Todd Pinkston
i don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's,
00:14:29
Michael Manthei
Yeah, yes. Some of that. While at the same time, I want to recognize that it was extremely difficult for me to step through my insecurity, timidity, to do what I felt like God was asking
Deepening Faith and Challenges
00:14:46
Michael Manthei
me to do many times.
00:14:48
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:14:49
Michael Manthei
That was not an easy thing. But Yeah, the the the pressure inside of me of this new life that I'd been plugged into was greater than the then the hindrances of the social norms of, hey, you know, just go up to somebody, ask if you can pray, you know, that kind of thing.
00:15:07
Todd Pinkston
Sure. Yeah. So that almost becomes that desire becomes the foundation. then The natural, like you talk about, we know we look around it like, well, how are people celebrated in in this thing called church that I go to? Well, they're celebrated because they go to the mission field. They're full time in ministry. They're on staff at a church.
00:15:28
Todd Pinkston
So I guess that must be the only option. you You wrestled through that, dipped your toe in that for a little bit. But then ultimately, you've ended up in a place where the foundation didn't change, but what you're doing on top of it has.
00:15:44
Todd Pinkston
And so that that heartbeat is there. And I think what I what i want to like tease out is you know we oftentimes try to work through it the other way. It's like, well, what am going to do with my life?
00:15:57
Todd Pinkston
And then how do I weave Jesus into that? But I think the the the path in which you went is more what would align with the way God's called us to is, no, let the burning desire of your heart actually be the thing in which things are built upon. And so talk talk through a little bit more of that process of like, so you you went to the ministry school, you tried you know you tried your hand in that, but ultimately you felt called to be where you are today.
00:16:25
Todd Pinkston
what What did that look like to work through that? How did You know, you had a mindset that felt like this is the only way the hyper spiritual end up and on this path, but you were feeling called on another path.
00:16:36
Todd Pinkston
How did you how did you break free from the mold of the from that? I've got a trap of believing, you know, that only the most spiritual are the ones that work full time for the ministry.
00:16:47
Michael Manthei
Yeah. Right. Yeah, I think it it comes down to where we get our supply from. Where are we truly living from? Are we trying to define this picture of a life that in our own minds, but usually in what we think in other people's minds fit the life that we you know want to live or want to be known as?
00:17:12
Michael Manthei
and
00:17:13
Michael Manthei
I don't see how anything other than a life completely yielded. And I always say without reservation, you know,
00:17:38
Michael Manthei
And it's, it's a lack of trust. It's, it's fear.
00:17:40
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:17:41
Michael Manthei
And if we could see him for who he is, we would, we would give everything in a heartbeat.
00:17:52
Michael Manthei
And, it's the It's the pictures of you know our earthly father or other leaders or other people that wore the name of God who misrepresented and these hurts and scars and things.
00:18:09
Michael Manthei
begin to cloud our vision to experience and see him for who he really is. The Bible says Jesus is is the desire of the nations. If people would just be able to see him, they'd give their lives.
00:18:25
Michael Manthei
So, it For me, i just I don't want any glitches. I don't want any catches. I don't want any, hey, you know, I've given most. I'm a pretty good person. like Any of that stuff. like Just without reservation, unafraid. Yeah.
00:18:44
Michael Manthei
unafraid So, yeah, it's yielding completely in trust to him and then developing the relationship to where with with God, to where there's an interface and interaction and true communication. People think like that is some weird thing or hard to get to thing. And it takes work, but we've been designed for it.
00:19:11
Michael Manthei
It is like the foundation of of our creation and design was for communication and relationship and interface with the almighty. And the fact that that door is open to us and we find other things to pacify us instead of stepping into that incredible adventure of knowing the creator of the universe, doesn't make any sense when you actually look at it.
00:19:39
Michael Manthei
But between between getting to know him and then and then trusting, you know, and it's it's not always easy and it's not always clear and it's not a straight line, but it's a, I don't know of any more worthy adventure.
00:19:55
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:19:55
Steven J. Neuner
Hey, Michael.
00:19:56
Todd Pinkston
What part of that surrender process do you find most difficult?
00:20:03
Michael Manthei
I think it's at times of uncertainty, it's, uh, the hardest thing is not knowing, uh, what to do next or what, uh, But that's a normal part of learning anything.
00:20:16
Michael Manthei
It's a normal part of learning anything. There was a life changing message that I heard in my early walk where these two sisters were talking about getting to know the Lord. And they said, the first thing that you find when you embark on the journey of getting to know God is that you don't know him.
00:20:36
Michael Manthei
And that is hard. That's a slap in the face.
00:20:38
Todd Pinkston
Mm-hmm.
00:20:40
Michael Manthei
That's difficult. And they said everybody has their own desert that they need to walk through to get to the other side of knowing him. And there there isn't any other way. So that message specifically really helped me lock in to say, hey, I don't care about anything else on earth as much as I care about getting getting to know him.
00:21:02
Michael Manthei
But even once that connection was established, there's times where it's like, boy, I'm not, I remember trying to pray and like, I don't even know what to do right now. I don't know what to say. i don't know what the,
00:21:12
Michael Manthei
you know, and that's just part of life and there's a ebb and flow and, and, staying committed and trusting him and his nature, even when it's uncertain.
00:21:26
Michael Manthei
I think is the foundation of faith. If, if it's all easy, know, I, know, with, with some of the challenges, uh,
00:21:37
Michael Manthei
we've had recently in some of our business stuff, I look at, man, when everything's going great, it's easy to be the guy with the good attitude and the the you know character responses and and all of that.
00:21:54
Michael Manthei
But what what good is that? what What fruit is that? like It's easy for anybody when everything's going well to have a good attitude and and trust and all of that. But how about when The crap hits the fan.
00:22:09
Michael Manthei
And to me, it's like, that's when you get to know yourself. That's when you show the work that you've been doing.
00:22:15
Todd Pinkston
Yeah, for sure.
00:22:17
Michael Manthei
That's when you actually get promoted because you're able to show good character when it's not easy.
00:22:27
Todd Pinkston
Yeah, that's right.
00:22:30
Steven J. Neuner
If you were to walk us through just a little bit, because you said in and it began, like you were just praying for everybody. Like, they're just like obviously, i think this will look different for a lot of different people.
00:22:39
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
00:22:42
Steven J. Neuner
But I would love for you to just kind of like walk us through how that that process has grown with you. Cause if I'm not mistaken, I think I've seen you in the middle of coach. We met through strategic coach. I think we already mentioned that, but anyway, if I didn't shout out to coach, but just this I think I've seen you praying in the middle, you know, for different people, or I don't know what you're praying for, but I've seen you,
00:23:06
Steven J. Neuner
Literally in the middle of a workshop, just taking a moment. So I know a prayer is a big, it's gotta to be a big part of your life. So can you just walk us through how that's grown with for you?
00:23:13
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
00:23:17
Steven J. Neuner
Cause the through line for me is communication, right?
00:23:17
Michael Manthei
Yeah. So.
00:23:19
Steven J. Neuner
It's like you're you're you're wrestling, but the the communication is the through line here of a relationship.
00:23:25
Michael Manthei
Yeah. Yeah. And in the substance, in the reality, if people knew how real he was in his world and his resources that are sitting on the other side of a veil, but totally accessible to us in our lives.
00:23:42
Steven J. Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:23:43
Michael Manthei
So, you know, how it started was I wanted to know that the voice I was hearing in my head or my heart was was real. And I didn't know how to do that. You know, you're praying and you hear God say, hey, I love you. Like, okay.
00:23:58
Michael Manthei
Great. But what if you're walking down the side of the road and you hear, hey, that person over there has a back issue and I'm going to heal it right now.
00:24:10
Michael Manthei
That either happens or it doesn't. And so that was the, and you know, when you read the gospels, like Jesus, he's out there healing the sick and doing doing measurable miracles. So that was my passion for,
00:24:27
Michael Manthei
10 or more years. And like I said, sometimes at the beginning, you know, it was often that not much would happen, but the stuff that I've seen happen right in front of my eyes would, would blow most people's minds.
00:24:42
Michael Manthei
At this point, it is,
00:24:44
Todd Pinkston
Hey, so just right there before you even pass on. So you had to step into obedience and the and and and initially the results weren't maybe what, you know, they weren't book worthy.
00:24:57
Todd Pinkston
But as you kept walking in that, you got to see some incredible stuff, right?
00:25:01
Michael Manthei
Yeah, 100%. Yep. 100%. Yeah.
00:25:03
Michael Manthei
yep
00:25:03
Todd Pinkston
Dude, I...
00:25:05
Todd Pinkston
I think that the the question I love asking in a Bible study when you look at stuff in the New Testament is like, why don't we experience that today? And and there's a thousand different answers.
00:25:16
Todd Pinkston
But it's I think what you just said is, man, that's something people need to hear is you step into it and and maybe initially there's not this.
00:25:26
Todd Pinkston
It's like we think, hey, I'll pick up a baseball bat and just start hitting grand slams. Like, no, didn't work that way.
00:25:30
Steven J. Neuner
Ha!
00:25:30
Michael Manthei
percent yeah Everything. Yeah.
00:25:33
Michael Manthei
A
00:25:33
Todd Pinkston
But you step in in obedience and maybe there's even a little embarrassment, but that's on you.
00:25:37
Michael Manthei
hundred percent.
00:25:38
Todd Pinkston
Like, that's just your own pride.
00:25:39
Michael Manthei
Yeah. A
00:25:42
Todd Pinkston
and then then the Lord starts pulling back the veil and you get to see some things that, you know, everybody would love to see, would love to be a part of that, you know, but sorry, I cut you off.
00:25:42
Michael Manthei
hundred percent.
00:25:52
Todd Pinkston
But I thought that was that was a great thing you just said.
00:25:54
Michael Manthei
No, that's awesome. Yeah. There's a guy named John Wimber that in the early eighties, God really used him to put out materials, where he taught everybody could pray for the sick.
00:26:04
Michael Manthei
And before that, it was kind of like the special anointed person, you know, back through history that would have these gifts and and do these things.
00:26:05
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:26:08
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:26:12
Michael Manthei
And he would, I remember him saying, you know, somebody will get one of his teachings and and go pray for somebody and it won't work. And then they'll come up to him and ask him like, hey, you know, can we talk about this? He's like, until you prayed for a hundred people, don't come, don't come talk to me. Like,
00:26:27
Michael Manthei
You haven't even started yet. So yeah, you just got to get out there and and do it.
00:26:29
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:26:32
Todd Pinkston
Let's go.
00:26:32
Michael Manthei
So yeah, and at at this point, during that time, I was like pushing myself constantly.
00:26:42
Michael Manthei
You know, when I would go out in public, I could barely like even eat or be interfacing with other people because i' I was just like always on high alert waiting for God to tell me to go do something. And at this point, I don't live that way anymore. I feel like my my heart is always open to him and it's just much more natural now when I feel like, hey, there's there's something there.
00:27:13
Michael Manthei
I just prayed for guy two nights ago, you know so it's not like it never happens, but yeah, it's it's much more much more natural. But again, i think it just, it comes down to the, do you actually believe that there's supernatural power available to change people's lives? And if so, how can how can we not how can we not live with that awareness and and put it into practice?
00:27:43
Steven J. Neuner
So good. and And am I right? Because mean, like it always excites me because i you know, secrets out. I pray for our groups a lot. Right. So like I pray but for our time together. So when I see you, are you praying? Are you sleeping? Have I put you to sleep? Are you praying? I guess is what I really want to know. It's right.
00:28:05
Michael Manthei
Yeah, yeah, usually praying. No.
00:28:08
Steven J. Neuner
all right.
00:28:09
Todd Pinkston
Not always.
00:28:09
Michael Manthei
there's there's There's no sleeping in your in your group, man.
00:28:12
Steven J. Neuner
day
00:28:14
Michael Manthei
You're, you're amazing. I love learning from you.
00:28:16
Steven J. Neuner
No, thanks, man.
00:28:16
Todd Pinkston
Yeah. Hmm.
00:28:18
Steven J. Neuner
You guys are amazing. So, so yeah. So then, I mean, just as you go, right? Like, so you're in prayer, right? Continuously is, is, is, is my sense and just paying attention.
00:28:29
Michael Manthei
Yeah, yeah. With it, you know, now that we have kids, it's it's so fun to
00:28:35
Michael Manthei
see see them develop, see them have hearts for the Lord. But, you know, most people say amen at the end of prayer. And I don't usually like to, because for most people, it's like clicking the red button on your iPhone when you're done with the conversation.
00:28:50
Michael Manthei
And like, there's no, there's, why would we stop?
00:28:50
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:28:55
Michael Manthei
Why would we hang up? Like,
00:28:56
Steven J. Neuner
That's good.
00:28:57
Michael Manthei
why would we hang up like So, yeah, even with the with the kids, we we laugh about because like my kids don't usually say amen. Like it's yeah, we're praying out loud now and now we're not. But and it doesn't always have to be in English. There's, you know, communication and just your heart being open.
00:29:19
Todd Pinkston
That's rich. Michael, this is great. And I think a lot of folks that listen to this podcast fall, you know, sit in similar seats that you sit in of there. They're getting after it in the workplace. They're, you know, they're successful. They're they're they're looking for meaning. They're they're they're trying to weave in, you know, what does it look like to follow Jesus and run my business at the same time? And so this is our, this is us putting you on stage and saying, this is the model. I mean, and I think if we look at Paul, it's like,
00:29:52
Todd Pinkston
That's what Paul does. I mean, does he ever ask for support? Would he be full-time ministry? Sure, I think you could. And at the same time, you could say, dude, he was making tents and trying to, mean, whenever he could, he was trying to make his own living so that he could just be a normal guy.
00:30:06
Todd Pinkston
And I think, i mean, I... i I'm on the other side of, you know, I have been, my paycheck has come from a ministry my whole adult life.
Real Estate and Faith-Driven Business
00:30:15
Todd Pinkston
And I look across and I see the most impact and the most potential for impact is not happening on my side. It's happening on y'all's. Like it is that they can look at somebody who's a, you know, a pastor and say, and it's your job.
00:30:30
Todd Pinkston
Of course, you're supposed to be praying all the time. It's your job. Well, You're going to something to get, you're paying to go, you're flying across the country to sit with a guy like Steven Nooner to glean wisdom because it's going to make your business more profitable.
00:30:48
Todd Pinkston
And you're taking time to look around and pray during that. which, you know, from from a dollars and cents strategy standpoint would be like, hey, why are you wasting your time? You are supposed to be, you know, getting insight here. If Stephen isn't talking, you should be talking to your neighbors.
00:31:05
Todd Pinkston
But you're living out the gospel. You're living out your calling. And so i do, i will want to put you up on the proverbial platform and say that's what it looks like to be a man who's running after the Lord and pursuing business because you're gifted.
00:31:21
Todd Pinkston
And so I'd love to hear a little bit on the business side. Like I think, you know, lots of folks are involved in real estate.
00:31:24
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah, please.
00:31:28
Todd Pinkston
Real estate super fascinating. it I dabble. It's a you know lot of fun for me. But, you know, so I'd love to know how'd you get into it? What are you passionate about in it?
00:31:38
Todd Pinkston
Kind of what's what's some of your secret sauce that makes you successful? And and And then also, you know, what does it look like as success comes?
00:31:49
Todd Pinkston
And, you know, those who are faithful little, the Lord can give much. I don't think that always means, you know, financial resources, but I do think it can that if if he sees people being good stewards, he's going to put more on their plate to steward of his money.
00:32:03
Todd Pinkston
And so what does it look like to to continue to steward that well?
00:32:08
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
00:32:10
Michael Manthei
So i in my ministry days, I read the book Rich Dad Poor Dad. And those the concepts and yeah the concepts in that book absolutely blew my mind.
00:32:15
Todd Pinkston
Okay.
00:32:16
Steven J. Neuner
Great book.
00:32:16
Todd Pinkston
Good book.
00:32:22
Michael Manthei
i didn't grow up around money and was really was really impacted by that book. And the concept of I can collect assets that pay me the rest of my life.
00:32:36
Todd Pinkston
Hmm.
00:32:36
Michael Manthei
So when I moved off, moved out of the mission field, I'd been in New Zealand, came to Lancaster, Pennsylvania here to get to know my wife. We got married little bit after that.
00:32:48
Michael Manthei
I was flat broke, you know, negative net worth coming off the mission field and she'd saved 25,000 during her twenties by, you know, working and and going without stuff.
00:33:01
Michael Manthei
And while we were renting an old farmhouse, we bought our first investment property with that money. And yeah, I thought I was going to buy.
00:33:12
Michael Manthei
Our goal was similar to Robert Kiyosaki's in that book where you try to buy two properties a year. And at the end of 10 years, you got 20 properties. It went a whole lot quicker than that for us. In the first couple of years, we bought 50 some apartments and At that point for us and the simple lifestyle we had, that was enough to, and I'm embarrassed to say this, retire. I had bought the i had you know bought the line that you know once your investment income exceeds your monthly expenses, you don't have to go to work anymore, you can retire.
00:33:50
Michael Manthei
And it was a good carrot and motivator, but oh my goodness, was it empty once we once we got there. And I'll never forget, it i took about a week after we hit that point.
00:34:02
Michael Manthei
And it was good for me to rest because I'd been i'd been running hard. But after about a week, all my energy came back. And i'm used to I'm used to God smiling at me. you know like you know I'm well-pleasing to him. Even before I do anything, you know I'm his son and I'm well-pleasing to him.
00:34:21
Michael Manthei
There was not a smile at my... perspective of, hey, I'm going to take the rest of my life off. And I felt like, hey,
00:34:33
Michael Manthei
he didn't He did not create me to go into my easy chair in my early 30s and you know relax the rest of the time. So it was much more philosophical at that point than I expected.
00:34:48
Michael Manthei
But it was like, hey, we could do anything we want to do now. What do we feel like God has for us next? And lot of prayer, a lot of talk with my wife and realize, I actually love what I'm doing.
00:35:00
Michael Manthei
But it would be a whole lot more fulfilling and and meaningful to do it in relationship with other people, be part of their journey. build a positive community.
00:35:12
Michael Manthei
So at that point, it was my wife and I that owned everything. And from there, this was in 2016. So years ago, we changed our whole business model to instead of her and I owning everything, now all we do is partnerships where we structure deals to allow other people to join us and get to be a part of people's lives. That way, it's an incredible It's incredible thing when somebody writes a big check to be a part of a project.
00:35:43
Michael Manthei
you know it it represents people's livelihood their life their energy their hopes their dreams uh it's a it's a it's a big deal and and we started a an education side where we do and inspirational events which has been when when you were talking about the impact that business leaders have it reminded me one of our our um our
00:36:11
Michael Manthei
speakers that joins us. I think he's joined us every year since he started. guy named Rabbi Daniel Lapin.
00:36:17
Michael Manthei
They call him America's Rabbi. Yeah, he's amazing.
00:36:17
Steven J. Neuner
Oh, he's great.
00:36:22
Michael Manthei
Him and his his family. Yeah, it's incredible book. Thou Shall Prosper is is one of them that's that's really good.
00:36:22
Steven J. Neuner
Great book.
00:36:27
Steven J. Neuner
Mm hmm.
00:36:30
Michael Manthei
So he's become a dear friend. and And he told me one time because he's, I think, fourth generation rabbi. And i asked him, you know, are your are any of your kids or grandkids following in that incredible lineage of being a rabbi? He said, I told them not to.
00:36:52
Michael Manthei
I told them to go into business because the greatest impact in today's world is through the business world. So. That just was extremely strong to me to be stewarding a lineage of, you know, four generations of very, very well known impactful rabbis to then encourages kids to go into, into the business world.
00:37:06
Todd Pinkston
Thank you.
00:37:17
Michael Manthei
So.
00:37:18
Michael Manthei
Yeah, so so we do this this annual event. It's called Generational Wealth where you know is it we have people come in and talk about you know all kinds of things with wealth. But for from my perspective,
00:37:34
Michael Manthei
I feel like there's this thin veneer of, hey, this is a business wealth conference, but like 98% of the heartbeat with it is see people's lives get touched by the Lord.
00:37:49
Todd Pinkston
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:51
Michael Manthei
Yeah, we've had people get give their life to to God through the through the event. and
00:37:55
Todd Pinkston
Hmm.
00:37:58
Michael Manthei
But yeah, we're also able to yeah encourage business owners. One of the fascinating things to me is the one of the biggest, probably the biggest thing that the generationally wealthy talk about that I'm around is passing along the character.
00:38:17
Michael Manthei
to the next generation, that if the character doesn't come, the money is going to destroy them.
00:38:17
Todd Pinkston
Hmm.
00:38:23
Michael Manthei
And so it's how do we get strong character into people, which is which is the gospel.
00:38:26
Todd Pinkston
Thank you.
00:38:29
Michael Manthei
It's, hey, live this thing out, you know faith and works. you know live Live a godly life. And then we we always do a a fundraiser at our at our events. I remember the first time the Lord put on my heart to try to build an orphanage through our business conference. I'm like, Lord, people aren't coming to do that. Like they are, you know they paid for their ticket.
00:38:54
Michael Manthei
But i'll I'll do it. And there's an organization that we are connected to called Angel House. And I went on their website and the smallest orphanage we could do was 20 grand. It would save 12 kids.
00:39:08
Michael Manthei
And I showed it to my wife. I was like, what do you think? And
00:39:13
Michael Manthei
she in her mind, she's like, how can we do the small one when we're teaching people to trust God for big things?
00:39:21
Todd Pinkston
Let's go.
00:39:22
Michael Manthei
And so she's looking, you know, yeah, 100%.
00:39:23
Todd Pinkston
Hey, you married up.
00:39:23
Steven J. Neuner
Woo!
00:39:24
Todd Pinkston
First of all, she comes in she comes in as your sugar mama. you know she's got the You're negative.
00:39:28
Michael Manthei
Exactly. Yep.
00:39:30
Todd Pinkston
She's positive. You're like, hey, we should hang out.
00:39:32
Michael Manthei
Yep.
00:39:33
Todd Pinkston
And now she's calling me out for like, dude, you're building a shoebox.
00:39:33
Michael Manthei
You put that together. Yep.
00:39:37
Todd Pinkston
Come on.
00:39:38
Michael Manthei
Yeah. Yeah. You put that together quick. That was good. So she's looking at the right side of the screen. I'm looking at the left and and she's seeing 50 grand and I'm like, girl,
00:39:49
Michael Manthei
Okay. If you got faith for it. And we ended up raising 120,000 at that first event and did two of them.
00:39:53
Todd Pinkston
Let's go.
00:39:55
Michael Manthei
And so that's been a really fun part of it where we do an auction. And so the speakers will say like, Hey, come to dinner with me. Or I'm teaching people how to do a brisket.
00:40:07
Michael Manthei
I've done longevity days where we bring you to our house and put you in the cold plunge and the sauna back and forth a
Wealth and Stewardship in Faith
00:40:13
Michael Manthei
couple of times. And, It's just been a really cool way to make it fun, but also give people an opportunity to to show generosity and and really impact impact the world.
00:40:26
Todd Pinkston
It's awesome.
00:40:27
Steven J. Neuner
That's so cool, man. So tell me, i mean, obviously you're walking with the Lord. So in your, you know, he gives you this perspective that you're, you're not finished. You work to do. Right. how easy was it? I mean, what were, what were the unexpected things when you,
00:40:48
Steven J. Neuner
got into business and really just unapologetically lived your faith out. Are there any, any things that like you, you haven't expected, but plus plus or minus, that you had to walk through and and and learn to work through?
00:41:02
Michael Manthei
The first thing that comes to mind was I was not open about my faith in the public setting when I first moved into the business world.
00:41:11
Todd Pinkston
Why?
00:41:11
Michael Manthei
I think one of the reasons was, you know, I was traveling with a well-known minister and a lot of the other people in that organization would like had developed an identity that, hey, we're part of this, you know, whatever ministry.
00:41:29
Michael Manthei
And I didn't want any of that. I didn't, i I always want to have more under the surface than people can see on the outside versus, you know, try to build myself up into something.
00:41:40
Michael Manthei
And then, you know, there'd be some big gaps if someone could see past the veneer.
00:41:42
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:41:46
Michael Manthei
But the bigger one was Especially when I started moving into partnerships and raising capital, I did not want to be associated with the people that used the name of God to
00:42:04
Michael Manthei
manipulate people for their own financial gain. I mean, i don't know if there's much that is more disgusting than
00:42:07
Steven J. Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:42:11
Michael Manthei
that
00:42:12
Todd Pinkston
yeah.
00:42:13
Michael Manthei
And so at one point I felt like the Lord said, hey, you don't want to be associated with the people that lied about their relationship with me to gain trust and take advantage of people. But you're actually lying to pretend like you aren't who you are.
00:42:35
Michael Manthei
And so how about we just stop the games and you be who you are. And we stopped trying to evaluate like, oh, should I say this? Should I not say this? And so like, even at our events, like I usually the first thing I say is, hey,
00:42:51
Michael Manthei
They're not Christian events, but I don't i don't hold back at all. I've talked about all kinds of crazy miracles I've seen there. you know there's There's no holding back. And I tell our speakers, hey, you know just just be who be who you are. So that is that was something I had to navigate.
00:43:13
Michael Manthei
Having money was a completely new experience. like
00:43:18
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah, say more about that.
00:43:21
Michael Manthei
Oh, man.
00:43:23
Michael Manthei
I mean, yeah, in ministry, man, all kinds of, I could tell all kinds of stories about, you know, I don't even have enough food to get through the week and and following how God leads me and and watching him provide and take care of us.
00:43:27
Todd Pinkston
Thank
00:43:38
Michael Manthei
But then like what happens when your bank account starts to grow and there was just a tension with that and an uncomfortable, I was just uncomfortable with seeing zeros in the bank account.
00:43:50
Michael Manthei
But again, I was aware that that was my insecurity. That was my issue. That wasn't like, oh, God isn't happy with you, you know, because you you have money, you know.
00:43:57
Steven J. Neuner
East.
00:44:05
Michael Manthei
the The most helpful concept that I talk about even through our events, and this is the people which your audience would probably apply to, that God has called to wealth. So like Todd said, being faithful in little doesn't always mean you're gonna get rich.
00:44:22
Michael Manthei
It's interesting to hear Jesus say, a whoever's left houses and families will receive many much more in this life and the next, but I'm certainly not of the opinion that, hey, you measure measure someone's godliness by how much wealth they carry.
00:44:41
Michael Manthei
Look at Mother Teresa and other people that are great examples.
00:44:47
Michael Manthei
Oh, where was I going right before that?
00:44:50
Michael Manthei
so Okay, so yeah, it's it's the it's the whole concept of being a king and ruling and reigning. That is so clear to me in scripture that that is one of the core identities that God is trying to get into us.
00:45:06
Michael Manthei
Sons and daughters of the king, he created the world and put humans as stewards over it.
00:45:14
Michael Manthei
And if you can get your head wrapped around that, and again, if you're someone that the Lord has called to steward wealth, you need to be okay having resources.
00:45:28
Michael Manthei
And i tell some of some of the people that come to me with the same issues, like, how about you just... Sit with the awareness that you have more money than you need. Like just sit in that tension with the Lord and let him heal you in that place.
00:45:49
Michael Manthei
So. you know uh in ministry a lot of times i you know just i made a practice at one point and at the end of every year to to give everything give everything i had start you know start each year with with zero and you know and that's fine and we cannot be trusting in our wealth i mean if if that isn't a clear message from scripture you know you're not reading it right but we we cannot put our confidence in wealth and god will
00:46:21
Michael Manthei
he's more interested in our maturity than he is in our comfort. I don't think he has much respect for our desire for comfort. He's looking for our maturity.
00:46:31
Michael Manthei
And so as we're, as we're you know, growing in our capacity to be who we created to be, stewarding that wealth, you know, there've been years where as we were building the business, I didn't give away much, which was a very different what was a very different reality than most of what I lived prior to that.
00:46:59
Michael Manthei
And again, it's like, hey, when you're giving you know this huge percentage of your income away, there's a part of that that feels like, oh, i'm really walking with the Lord. Well, what if he's not leading you to do that for a season?
00:47:14
Michael Manthei
And when I look back over the last handful of years, things we've been able to do financially, you know, were not even faint thoughts of what we would have been able to do as we were coming up or in the ministry years.
00:47:33
Michael Manthei
So
00:47:34
Steven J. Neuner
Mm-hmm.
00:47:35
Michael Manthei
I believe that wealth, the same with power, influence, anything God gives us is to be used to serve the world around us.
00:47:46
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:47:46
Michael Manthei
That's our wealth. That's our influence. That's our strength.
00:47:49
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:47:50
Michael Manthei
You know, Jesus emptied himself and became a servant. And, you know, when when a weak person serves, it's like, okay,
00:48:01
Michael Manthei
But what if the Lord builds you with the strength of a king and you use that to serve? That to me is much more exciting, and much more impactful.
00:48:14
Todd Pinkston
Awesome.
00:48:14
Steven J. Neuner
love that. I see sometimes in that process where, you know, I don't know if it's for with with bad intention or not, where sometimes people get in that position and and they're a new, maybe unexpected blessing for their character development.
00:48:31
Steven J. Neuner
is when people automatically assume that they should just be giving to everything because they've, because the God's blessed them with wealth. And I think there's a a process of of stewardship of sometimes that that also means, no, I don't feel called to that.
00:48:40
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
00:48:45
Steven J. Neuner
I'm, you know, like God's got something for me. I see some, uh, really, really, faithful people sometimes seemingly fall into that trap where they just, they almost feel guilty and they just, it's like, they've got to get it out.
00:48:57
Steven J. Neuner
And, And then they miss, you know, i I've walked with them long enough where they they can sometimes miss that the the things that later they'll be like, that was the one I was supposed to really double down on. But I had given to everyone else sort of a people pleasing, man pleasing type of generosity.
00:49:14
Steven J. Neuner
So I've learned, you know, just by my own experiences and then just with other people to to have a lot less judgment for what people do with their money or where they're putting their faith or trust in.
00:49:15
Michael Manthei
Yep.
00:49:27
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:49:27
Michael Manthei
Yep, I agree with that.
Health and Longevity Tips
00:49:31
Todd Pinkston
That's You mentioned you mentioned longevity.
00:49:31
Steven J. Neuner
So, yeah.
00:49:33
Todd Pinkston
give us Give us your top three longevity hacks.
00:49:36
Michael Manthei
Haha, that's fun. Sleep.
00:49:40
Todd Pinkston
How many hours?
00:49:40
Michael Manthei
I'm not a I mean, I try to get I try to get eight and a half.
00:49:46
Todd Pinkston
Okay.
00:49:47
Michael Manthei
So I know a lot of people out there are four and five hour grind.
00:49:47
Todd Pinkston
Any... Yeah.
00:49:51
Michael Manthei
And I'm that sounds like in your own strength kind of stuff.
00:49:55
Michael Manthei
I'm not interested in.
00:49:55
Todd Pinkston
yeah
00:49:57
Todd Pinkston
any Any aids? Like, are you a mouth taper?
00:50:02
Michael Manthei
No, my wife is I keep my mouth closed. i I, was using an eye mask.
00:50:09
Todd Pinkston
Yeah?
00:50:09
Michael Manthei
But you can't tell, thankfully, from the perspective here, but if you could see the head from the from the back, it's it's it's missing a few of those. And my wife was saying, hey, where i what I have my eye mask was starting to get a little bit thinner than...
00:50:25
Todd Pinkston
Is that my problem?
00:50:25
Michael Manthei
It
00:50:26
Todd Pinkston
i my The eye mask is, this the full strap is, dang it.
00:50:28
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah.
00:50:28
Michael Manthei
probably is, brother. Yeah.
00:50:32
Todd Pinkston
and
00:50:33
Steven J. Neuner
yeah
00:50:34
Todd Pinkston
All right, so good good good sleep.
00:50:34
Michael Manthei
So...
00:50:36
Todd Pinkston
What else?
00:50:38
Michael Manthei
Sauna, if you could do one one thing, sauna, a hot sauna. I know a lot of people do infrared because they're more affordable, but the the hot sauna, 180 200.
00:50:44
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:50:48
Michael Manthei
My wife and I do that every every single night. It's our and rest after putting the kids down. Number three, exercise. I mean, my word.
00:50:59
Michael Manthei
Yeah. Yeah, lift heavy. I love doing CrossFit. Yeah. Yeah, it took me 51 minutes to to mention CrossFit, so that's good. Usually, you can know so if somebody does CrossFit, they'll tell you in the first 30 seconds.
00:51:09
Todd Pinkston
There you go.
00:51:13
Todd Pinkston
I know. That's great. Yeah.
00:51:15
Steven J. Neuner
todd todd Todd, this is a record for Todd too.
00:51:15
Todd Pinkston
I thought it'd be a part of the... Whatever. and There is not there's not a CrossFit within 50 miles of me right now.
00:51:27
Michael Manthei
That's tough.
00:51:27
Todd Pinkston
i was a i was a CrossFitter in Dallas before we moved to Southern Colorado, and Wade Ford actually started out of a CrossFit gym.
00:51:32
Michael Manthei
Okay.
00:51:34
Todd Pinkston
It was a it was a Bible study group of guys that that that eventually became the catalyst for for the ministry.
00:51:35
Michael Manthei
Amazing.
00:51:42
Todd Pinkston
so
00:51:42
Michael Manthei
Amazing. Yeah.
00:51:43
Todd Pinkston
CrossFit's dear dear to the heart. again
00:51:46
Michael Manthei
yep
00:51:47
Todd Pinkston
what's What's on the horizon for you? like What are you dreaming about as you're thinking,
00:51:49
Steven J. Neuner
the
00:51:52
Todd Pinkston
you know, that you've you've you've built a network of folks that are entrusting you with capital. You're building partnerships and conferences. What what do you see over the horizon for the Lord calling you to?
00:52:06
Michael Manthei
Steven, I know you had something. You want me to answer Todd here did you want to?
00:52:08
Steven J. Neuner
Well, I mean, yeah well i mean yeah it ties in. So whenever you whenever you want. I mean, there there is one thing that to me when I think of horizon, like this is just one of the coolest things I've, I've seen
Business Losses and Growth
00:52:23
Steven J. Neuner
personally.
00:52:24
Steven J. Neuner
And it's, it, it's, it's probably not a fun thing, but it's something that I saw that Michael do that just blew me away. Can I share, to share that? And then we kind of bring that into the horizon.
00:52:34
Todd Pinkston
Thank you.
00:52:35
Steven J. Neuner
Cause I'm also just curious. So I think there's some learning, and you know what I'm referring to the letter.
00:52:36
Michael Manthei
Sure.
00:52:41
Michael Manthei
I missed the last piece, but yeah, feel free to share.
00:52:43
Steven J. Neuner
the The letter?
00:52:44
Michael Manthei
yep
00:52:44
Steven J. Neuner
Okay. So, I mean, so Michael did not come in promoting this or saying this or anything else, but you know i think you know real estate has cycles and economic cycles, and I'll let him talk to all this, but I have had i've personally experienced where I've invested alongside of other people and you know the risks going in you know all the things, right?
00:53:09
Steven J. Neuner
and And sometimes deals work great and sometimes they don't, right? And it's it's investing, right? and And just being on unapologetically and like walking out your faith. I saw Michael do something that I've never seen. I'm sure it's maybe done somewhere, but the way he did it, I've just never seen anything like it. And it was just such a blessing and encouragement to me. And I just I think it says a lot about.
00:53:34
Steven J. Neuner
about Michael. So I've got a letter in front of me that Michael sent on the River City investment to to some partners. Can I share it, Michael?
00:53:46
Michael Manthei
Sure. Wow. Yeah.
00:53:49
Steven J. Neuner
Dear partners, I, along with my wife, Kristen, have decided that we would like to work toward making each of our partners in this investment whole. We know that each of you are sophisticated investors who understood the risks and would not expect us to repay you personally. However, we feel God and is inviting us to take this step of faith.
00:54:09
Steven J. Neuner
We feel joyful about this decision and that it would be an honor for us to work toward this objective.
00:54:10
Todd Pinkston
Thank you.
00:54:16
Steven J. Neuner
A scripture that is on our hearts, as we've made this decision is John 15, 13. No greater love has any man in this than to, than he laid down his life for his friends.
00:54:28
Steven J. Neuner
And so anyway, and then he goes on, but I just like, like I've, I've been a part of deals that gone bad. I've never got a letter like that, nor have I ever expected it, but I can imagine receiving a letter like this where I knew all the risks, I invested in something and it just didn't work out the way that was planned.
00:54:47
Steven J. Neuner
And so, Michael, I just want like I think it's such a. A story that doesn't get tell is such an act of faith, I would just I would love to just kind of if you would share the backstory and how you get you, and because this is your wife as well being on board, just walk us through that and then sort of what what are the learnings from that?
00:55:09
Michael Manthei
Yeah. I haven't talked about any of this stuff publicly yet, but I'm happy to. I mean, when we started our our partnerships, you know it felt like everything we touched turned to gold. There was...
00:55:25
Michael Manthei
yeah
00:55:28
Michael Manthei
an amazing An amazing run we had. And then if anyone follows interest rate cycles and how much that affects real estate, you know, the the run up in 2022.
00:55:41
Steven J. Neuner
Largest run up in history.
00:55:42
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
00:55:43
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah.
00:55:43
Michael Manthei
yeah
00:55:44
Steven J. Neuner
In a short time.
00:55:45
Michael Manthei
Really impacted. Yeah, really impacted stuff. So, you know, out of out of 20 deals that we've done, we've had three now that have been losses.
00:55:57
Michael Manthei
And just extremely hard
00:56:02
Michael Manthei
you know Prior to them being losses, my wife and I emptied emptied all our accounts to try to keep them going, try to save them. you know These are people that we really care about in these in these deals.
00:56:18
Michael Manthei
And then you know once once they're lost, as it's like, Wow. and my wife and I had always talked about, Hey, if we had a loss, this is what we would want to do.
00:56:28
Michael Manthei
And you know what? That's very easy to talk about when everything's going well, when you're adding a thousand, uh, you have more money than you know what to do with.
00:56:32
Steven J. Neuner
When you're batting a thousand? Yeah.
00:56:40
Michael Manthei
And, uh, yeah, but again, man, rubber meets the road when, when crap hits the fan. So, uh, You know, part of my hesitation was like, hmm, maybe people will think I, I don't know, I feel guilty or something.
00:56:57
Michael Manthei
There's zero obligation that I feel. I fought like hell on these and they still went this way. Haven't had anyone threaten me or anything like that.
00:57:13
Michael Manthei
it It was something that was always in our heart.
00:57:15
Steven J. Neuner
something that was really important to have a good relationship with the family.
00:57:17
Michael Manthei
But then when it actually came down to making that decision,
00:57:19
Steven J. Neuner
But there was time there, but that was really true. And so, for example, to do something, but not going to be able to do something.
00:57:22
Michael Manthei
i took a long time with it and wanted to make sure Kristen was on board, my wife.
00:57:25
Steven J. Neuner
And I'm not going to be able to do something.
00:57:29
Michael Manthei
And it really came down to what I said in the letter there where I didn't feel like God asked me to do it. I felt like he invited me to believe him and trust him.
00:57:43
Michael Manthei
to provide through us to make people make people whole. So it's, I've framed it and it would say in the rest of the letter, Hey, this is our intention. I'm not creating an obligation.
00:58:00
Michael Manthei
And part of that was something that was important to Kristin that if, Hey, something happens to me, she's not left with this major debt and obligation.
00:58:04
Steven J. Neuner
So it's nothing really, really, really, it's just an intentional
00:58:10
Michael Manthei
So it's nothing.
00:58:13
Michael Manthei
really official. It's just an intention that I've communicated, a goal that we are working towards. So far, we've made quarterly payments. You know, what feels like a big number on our end going out.
00:58:29
Michael Manthei
I'm sure it doesn't feel like a big number on other people's end getting it. You know, it's in the middle of the losses. It hasn't been, you know, a stellar year for a few years here in in real estate.
00:58:42
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah.
00:58:43
Michael Manthei
So, you know, at the current rate, it's going to take quite some time. But, but and And the other thing is, you know, when it was just one deal, it's like, hey, I want to work to make you guys whole. Now that it's been more than one, you know, the the question was how, you know, we just keep adding this on. Yeah.
00:59:09
Michael Manthei
And I felt like what we're going to do is is let people pick one of them for me to work towards. So I had one guy that invested in all of them.
00:59:20
Michael Manthei
I think he had 101, 201, 500 in another. And was like, hey, how about you pick one? you know no No surprise on which one was picked.
00:59:32
Michael Manthei
uh, that just felt like a healthier way than to feel, like, Hey, we're just, you know, then,
00:59:33
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
00:59:35
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah.
00:59:38
Steven J. Neuner
Did you have anyone? did Did you have anyone reject it? Like, cause I mean, like I've never seen anything like it. I mean, did you have anyone say no, man? Like,
00:59:49
Michael Manthei
yeah, my, my CPA and lawyer said they never seen anybody do it either. but it's so funny you ask, uh, I expected some people to be like, Hey man, Hey, we, we knew what, what this was.
01:00:01
Michael Manthei
You've been amazing on, on other deals. Like, Hey, no, no sweat.
01:00:03
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah.
01:00:06
Michael Manthei
Uh, no, nobody has done that. Uh, I was yeah in my mind calculating like, Oh, a portion of these will probably do that. so that'll reduce the number. Uh, nobody, nobody has, which again, I'm, I consider it a joy and an honor.
01:00:17
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
01:00:21
Steven J. Neuner
You didn't do it for them anyway, yeah.
01:00:24
Michael Manthei
Yeah. Yeah. you know, I, again, it's not my, it's not my money. And I don't, i don't even think of it as the kid's money. Like, it's not like I'm taking my kids as inheritance or something like it is all for, it's all for him. It's all his.
01:00:41
Michael Manthei
And we get one life and I just want to I just want to lay it all at his feet and yield it all to him. And so there's, there isn't a sense of loss or a sense of anything with it. there's real pain that, you know, these losses cause in people's hearts, you know, as much as we all want to say, we understand, understand the risks when it actually happens, it, it hurts. It really hurts. and so I, I recognize that for people, um, people,
01:01:17
Michael Manthei
But hey, we're you know we're we're not promised a smooth road. And yeah, my wife and I are excited to to keep chipping away at this and keep working towards it.
01:01:31
Steven J. Neuner
Well, having experienced some, yeah.
01:01:32
Todd Pinkston
Boom.
01:01:32
Michael Manthei
And i I also want to say, i I don't expect to do this in the future. It's not like a personal guarantee. you know you You keep all the upside, I take all the downside. it's it's not I don't expect to do this in the future, but we're honored to now.
Future Outlook and Faithfulness
01:01:49
Steven J. Neuner
Well, it sounds to me, i mean, just listening, it just sounds like obedience. And having been on the side of having had experienced losses and feeling that having prayed and released, I mean, there's it's it's still, it's it's a huge bummer. And so for me, never would have ever expected it it, but I've never heard anything like it. And I just thought it was such a great testimony to your faithfulness, forget what you, you know, like the any of the conversations about what people did or didn't do or, you know, but just like you felt conviction, you and your wife aligned, you acted in obedience, you were faithful. And it was just, you
01:02:31
Steven J. Neuner
when I think would be really, really hard, even for people that are very faithful. So anyway, I think it's worth celebrating. I'm sure for you, it probably feels a lot of different things, but I think it's amazing and it is so encouraging to me and inspiring.
01:02:50
Steven J. Neuner
So I hope that you know you're you're blessed and anointed from from just already richly just living into that obedience.
01:02:50
Todd Pinkston
Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:01
Michael Manthei
Amen. Amen. Thank you.
01:03:03
Steven J. Neuner
So going to the, you know, what Todd said, like, if you look at the horizon and the perspective, uh, since I interrupted you took you down like this hard path, I do want to hear. Yeah. yeah oh What's the future look like?
01:03:15
Michael Manthei
Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:16
Steven J. Neuner
what What's God stirring in your heart? What are your God sized dreams?
01:03:22
Michael Manthei
I don't know how this will sound, but, uh,
01:03:27
Michael Manthei
I honestly, I don't.
01:03:30
Michael Manthei
So yeah, I guess I could say it from from two different from two different sides. One, I feel like God's just getting started with us and he's he's got so much more in store for us.
01:03:44
Michael Manthei
On the other side of the same coin, I don't care. I don't. you know, I never got into this thing to to be rich, to be wealthy, to be well known.
01:03:57
Michael Manthei
And I do not feel attached to the results or the outcomes in any way.
01:04:07
Michael Manthei
But I feel like he's he's asking us at at this stage and it could it could change in the future to continue to display courage in moving forward and trusting him. We're working. So in the real estate investing space, it all comes down in my mind to the people that you to the people that you work with. You know a lot of people are out there chasing deals. I chase relationships and and people. And over the last two years, there is a local
01:04:44
Michael Manthei
and a regional operations company that's always just done their own deals. They've been in business since the 60s.
01:04:55
Michael Manthei
The guy, the principal is 79 now and They've always been the pinnacle for operations. And over the last two years, he and I have become friends.
01:05:09
Michael Manthei
He's spoken at the last couple events of ours. He took me snowmobiling out in Montana a couple of months ago. And we are now coming to the end of our of our first project together.
01:05:23
Michael Manthei
We should close at the end of next month. Which and it's a it's a local project, so All of my Pennsylvania stuff has done well, where we got into some markets that haven't or when we started buying around the country.
01:05:43
Michael Manthei
Some of them did okay, but those have been the the losses where we're outside of the local area. So I don't know that I'll never, I wouldn't say I'll never buy you know outside the area again, but the fact that we're now partnering with the number one operator in our region.
01:06:06
Michael Manthei
is It's like such a blessing to me. You know, I've been very, and you want to talk about some of the challenges. I've been very blessed that of a small percentage of the people have been upset with me for what's happened.
01:06:24
Michael Manthei
I feel like I've gotten way more grace than I expected, but I definitely have a couple people that, you know, i think I'm the worst person to to ever get into real estate.
Conclusion and Reflections
01:06:39
Michael Manthei
And to have to have that on the one side and then on the other side, you have this company that I've looked up to ever since I got into real estate investing, never would have expected I would have partnered with them.
01:06:54
Michael Manthei
cause just completely different tiers. then as we've grown and been able to be good partners to them, just as they want to be, our group, you know, to have someone like that, be excited about partnering,
01:07:11
Michael Manthei
is is a source of encouragement. You know, id I would like to say I i don't need it because, again, i I want my source to always be from who the Lord says I am. But it is a huge kindness from the Lord to to bring that connection together.
01:07:20
Steven J. Neuner
Mm-hmm.
01:07:27
Michael Manthei
So that's That's like, if I'm honest, one of the first positive things that I've had to work on in the last few years as we've been you know fighting and and fighting a losing battle.
01:07:39
Michael Manthei
So umm I'm excited about that. And yeah, excited to see the Lord continue his faithfulness to us.
01:07:48
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
01:07:50
Steven J. Neuner
That's awesome, man.
01:07:50
Todd Pinkston
Praise God.
01:07:51
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah.
01:07:52
Todd Pinkston
And Michael, I think... just the the context of all the things you have shared throughout this conversation have been on the cusp of your hardest season at work is like, it just continues to give light to, you know, you're, you're not standing at the top with, you know, batting a thousand and saying, yeah, i pray all the time.
01:08:13
Todd Pinkston
Like, no, you're, you're going through the th throws and that's what tests us.
01:08:14
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:19
Todd Pinkston
And oftentimes, you know, we'll We'll quit reading scripture in the morning, and quit going to church because we're consumed with how do I get out of this? And i think just to to commend that you you on just having a steady faith and continuing the the practices of praying for others and tuning your your heart to the Lord and listening for his voice and and and doing the hard work of, hey, God's called me to to pay back some investors.
01:08:49
Todd Pinkston
Like that's not a that's not written in the contract. That's something that, mean, that's like handing somebody money that, you know, is on the side of the road. It's like, it's not an expectation. That's a that's a calling. And so, man, kudos to you.
01:09:01
Todd Pinkston
what What an encouraging conversation.
01:09:01
Steven J. Neuner
Mm-hmm.
01:09:03
Todd Pinkston
And I'm glad you shared that last part because I do, I think it magnifies everything else. that it's not just, you know, when things are up into the right that we invest time in the Lord.
01:09:15
Todd Pinkston
It is, no, this is a real deal all the time. If it's up into the right, great. You got money to give away and, you know, the Lord's blessed you with the resources. If it's if it's down into the left, you know, it's like, hey, he's doing something and i and I'm going to ride it out and I'm going to be faithful along the way.
01:09:26
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
01:09:30
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
01:09:31
Todd Pinkston
So praise God and thank you.
01:09:32
Steven J. Neuner
And the widow's mine, right? Yeah. That was the biggest, but but that was the biggest, that was the biggest tie, right?
01:09:36
Todd Pinkston
Absolutely.
01:09:42
Steven J. Neuner
So,
01:09:42
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
01:09:43
Michael Manthei
hundred percent. Yeah. Good. Gave what they had.
01:09:46
Todd Pinkston
You bet.
01:09:47
Steven J. Neuner
so Michael, you know, I'd love just to help people connect with you. Like, so if if there was someone that was listening to this, wants to, you know, connect with you more, learn more about you, what's what's the best way to do that?
01:10:02
Michael Manthei
Yeah, I, uh,
01:10:06
Michael Manthei
uh, most of the stuff we do is, um, is,
01:10:10
Michael Manthei
Yeah, it doesn't have a big public presence. I mean, i'm on I'm on the social media, Facebook and Instagram. Someone could send me an email, michael at investelevate.com.
01:10:22
Michael Manthei
So Elevate Investing Group is our education side. So it's michael, A-E-L, at investelevate.com. If anybody wants to reach out.
01:10:34
Todd Pinkston
And then you're you're doing a you're doing a public offering for some stock that has all upside and you carry the downside, right?
01:10:42
Steven J. Neuner
Awesome.
01:10:42
Todd Pinkston
So anybody that wants anybody that wants in on that,
01:10:42
Michael Manthei
Exactly. I'm glad you, I'm glad you heard that.
01:10:46
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah.
01:10:47
Michael Manthei
Yeah. I'm glad we got that, uh, recorded and yeah, exactly.
01:10:50
Todd Pinkston
glad we got got that ironed out.
01:10:53
Michael Manthei
Yeah, no, exactly.
01:10:53
Steven J. Neuner
I, Hey, I do think if it would be appropriate if you be willing. Like, can we, can we we, we have the proverbial stage here. Can we pray for you and your business and your family?
01:11:03
Todd Pinkston
Absolutely. Yeah.
01:11:05
Michael Manthei
Sure. It'd be amazing.
01:11:06
Steven J. Neuner
All right. What great way to end. Heavenly Father, God, you are so good. I just thank you so much for Michael and his witness and his faithfulness. It's been such a blessing to me and I know so many others, Lord. And I'm just so grateful that for all the ways that you're working in his life.
01:11:24
Steven J. Neuner
Lord, I just pray that... I pray for blessing. I pray for wisdom. I pray for discernment. I pray for just continued growth into the king that that you have called him to be. i pray for his wife and his children. May they May they see the faithfulness of their dad dad and and want that that exact a type of relationship with you. And Lord, we just we love you and we praise you. Thank you so much again for today. i pray that this message impacts other people.
01:11:57
Steven J. Neuner
It already has me in, so I praise you for that. In Jesus' name, no amen.
01:12:03
Todd Pinkston
no amen
01:12:03
Michael Manthei
Amen.
01:12:04
Steven J. Neuner
yeah
01:12:05
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
01:12:06
Todd Pinkston
and really There you go.
01:12:06
Michael Manthei
does It helps people. So I, I say it. And yeah, I think in in the Bible, it's like, it's, it's, you're, you're not, it's not the red button. It's like, you're, you're putting your agreement with what was said.
01:12:18
Todd Pinkston
Yeah.
01:12:19
Michael Manthei
So.
01:12:19
Steven J. Neuner
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
01:12:19
Todd Pinkston
Shaking hand.
01:12:20
Steven J. Neuner
You're right. But I love the way you frame that. It's it was's interesting. Why not? So thank you.
01:12:27
Todd Pinkston
Michael, what a gift.
01:12:27
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
01:12:27
Todd Pinkston
Thanks for, thanks for your time.
01:12:28
Michael Manthei
Yeah.
01:12:29
Todd Pinkston
Thanks for sharing your story, being honest and vulnerable. And I'm encouraged. I know lots of other people will be as well.
01:12:36
Michael Manthei
Yeah, it's been a pleasure. been an honor. Appreciate you guys. Thank you.
01:12:38
Todd Pinkston
You bet.
01:12:39
Steven J. Neuner
Love you, brother. Thank you.
01:12:42
Michael Manthei
Love you too, man.