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Scott - Canine Search and Rescue
74 Plays1 year ago
Scott is a paid firefighter but his passion for Canine search and rescue is hard to match. In this interview, we discuss all things K9 SAR. The initial choice of the dog, the various stages of training, both for the dog and the handler, the common pitfalls in training, how deployments typically go, what makes a good K9 team and so much more. This is an engaging and fascinating deep dive into the world of K9 SAR and Scott is an excellent ambassador for this life saving program. If you have any interest in training or want to know more about canine SAR training, Scott can be reached at :
SARcaninetraining.com. LINK
If you found this interview helpful and/or entertaining and would like to support the show, you can do so HERE. Thanks!
Music by: SnoozyBeats - Song Title - "Keep It Calm". Please check out SnoozyBeats on PixaBay for a ton of awesome content! -LINK
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:20
The Jobs Podcast
Hey folks, thanks for joining me on the jobs podcast. Today we've got a special treat. One of the benefits of having a podcast is you get to choose who the guests are and what the topics are. And this one is something that is of personal interest to me. Canine search and rescue. And we have a gentleman here today that has a lot of experience in this. So welcome Scott.
00:00:41
Scott Robertshaw
Hi there, glad to be here, thanks.
00:00:43
The Jobs Podcast
So Scott, let's go ahead and start off with where you were born, your early upbringing, and just kind of walk us through that, your education and how your career is of materialized and we'll just go from there.
00:00:55
Scott Robertshaw
Sounds great. Yeah, so I grew up, I was born in actually Arvada, Colorado and spent my early years just doing the Colorado thing and heading up to the mountains my my My family had a place up in Estes Park, Colorado. So as a kid, we grew up running around Estes Park. And then in the 80s, we moved around a bit.
Shift to Outdoor Education
00:01:20
Scott Robertshaw
We ended up headed out to California, kind of like outside LA for a couple of years. And then we ended up in Chicago, outside of the city.
00:01:30
Scott Robertshaw
That's where I kind of grew up in the sense of sixth grade through college and went to school at Western Illinois and played soccer my whole life. And basically, as soon as I could finish my degree, which was a physical education and education major, I had dreams of returning back to Colorado. So off I went back to Colorado, fresh with a diploma in hand up in Estes Park.
00:01:58
Scott Robertshaw
And that's kind of where I started my, yeah, my professional careers.
00:01:59
The Jobs Podcast
Beautiful area.
00:02:02
Scott Robertshaw
I kind of landed there.
00:02:04
The Jobs Podcast
What was your first you got you said your degree was in physical education? What was it?
00:02:10
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. So my first, my bachelor's degree was in education and I was a PE teacher.
00:02:14
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:02:15
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:02:15
Scott Robertshaw
and that's where I spent kind of my, my beginning years as a career and then.
00:02:22
Scott Robertshaw
I met my wife and we were having fun doing adventures in Colorado and skiing on the weekends and rock climbing. And then I ended up wanting to do something a little bit more adventure outdoor based. I went to grad school in Georgia at a place called Georgia College and got my outdoor education administration master's degree.
Career Change to EMT and Firefighter
00:02:41
Scott Robertshaw
And then I got involved with university work, running outdoor programs and doing different adventures and then that's what brought us back. My wife Amy and I as hard as in the mountains or outdoors, one of the two. And so we were headed back to Colorado and I got my ah career lifetime dream job at Colorado State University in Pueblo. And I was the director of the outdoor pursuits program and worked in student rec and taught in the outdoor leadership degree until I,
00:03:14
Scott Robertshaw
We made a whole life family switch, and we traded mountain-like for Lake Life. And our whole family moved out here to Table Rock, Missouri. It's in Shell Knob, where we live. And that's when I made the switch to be full-time EMT with Mercy, and then joined the Central Crossing Fire Department as a full-time firefighter. So 25 plus years as an educator, and then went full-time as and a firefighter now.
00:03:43
The Jobs Podcast
Your education job, the outdoor programs, elaborate on that just a little bit. What exactly were you instructing people in? What types of things would you do?
00:03:51
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, yeah. And that's, that, you know, it's like the greatest job and you, you, you, uh, every day you're like, how do I get to do this? Um, I worked at the university and in the university, there's the academic programs and there was an outdoor leadership recreation curriculum.
00:04:08
Scott Robertshaw
And then there was a student rec. So it was kind of cool because we combined the two. So students that would be learning the outdoor leadership curriculum, how to take people on trips, you know, essentially be an outdoor educator guide, all those risk management, you know, first aid and logistics and all the stuff that goes with that.
00:04:13
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:04:25
The Jobs Podcast
Okay. All right.
00:04:26
Scott Robertshaw
And then we would be running like right now they're preparing for a ski snowboard trip at one of the ski areas and in Colorado. So then on Saturdays or Sundays or whatever day the trips were running, then the student leaders, that's who was in charge of, would run those trips for their other students in the college and create those cool experiences while they're in college.
00:04:48
The Jobs Podcast
Man, I think I missed my calling. That sounds like a pretty sweet job.
00:04:51
Scott Robertshaw
Yes, it was amazing. We got to go all over the country and see cool things in Colorado and just
00:04:57
The Jobs Podcast
yeah
00:04:58
Scott Robertshaw
We had a rope score, so we did a bunch of adventures. So it was awesome.
00:05:01
The Jobs Podcast
Very cool. So you ended up back here in Missouri near Taborock Lake, beautiful area.
00:05:08
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:05:08
The Jobs Podcast
I'm partial to it myself. And you got to be an EMT, you work in the fire service now. Where did the canine stuff, how did that kind of play
00:05:18
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm.
Involvement in Canine Search and Rescue
00:05:20
The Jobs Podcast
in?
00:05:20
The Jobs Podcast
Did you always have a dog and then you just kind of fell into it or did you get a dog with a specific intent of doing search and rescue and then was there cadaver find or live find or kind of where did you go with that?
00:05:34
Scott Robertshaw
So in 2009, my wife and I moved outside of Pueblo into small mountain town and they had a volunteer fire department and volunteer EMS. And somehow I got interested in it and I said, well, but I'm gonna go learn how to be an EMT. And then on like Christmas break, we went on uh, standby because some kids were missing, you know, with their Christmas GPS present. And I got to see the County and local resources do search and rescue. I had done that with the outdoor leadership degree. Unfortunately, we had people get hurt every once in a while, or, you know, kids at camp or somebody be missing. So you kind of, where are they and find them, but not at this level. And, and so then I became a part of the County team there. And one of the teammates, she had a cane on.
00:06:25
Scott Robertshaw
had knew nothing and then they called out for a gentleman that was missing on one of the 14,000 foot peaks up in the high mountains and They needed a navigator slash support person I was pretty good with map and compass and carrying gear and could be a helpful person So I basically followed this canine handler and her dog around an entire day in the field. I mean, not just a 20 minute search. We were out there for hours. And this dog would just go around and all these dogs, was about five or six dogs that were deployed on this mission. And then we all came back to the hood of the car and the subject hadn't been located. And everybody compared their information, where the dog's nose was pointing. then we triangulated an area
00:07:15
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:07:15
Scott Robertshaw
And sure enough later, the person was found in that area in a very tough terrain. But I was like, how do dogs do this? And then how do all these people and then the organization of all that, the you team leader that you got the map out and took everybody's compass bearings and dog
00:07:24
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:07:33
Scott Robertshaw
And I was like, I'm doing this. I knew nothing about it, but I was like, this is amazing. My wife and I, we had a dog, an awesome black lab from the Denver Dumb Friends League that she you found.
00:07:38
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:07:45
Scott Robertshaw
But we had never, I knew nothing about getting a dog until I was like, oh, I want to learn more.
00:07:51
The Jobs Podcast
That's pretty cool.
00:07:52
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:07:53
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, it was amazing.
00:07:55
The Jobs Podcast
The connection between, you know, they call them man's best friend for a reason.
00:07:59
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm.
00:07:59
The Jobs Podcast
Dogs just have this thing about them that you can't explain it. They're always looking at you, you know, they're always kind of scanning you for clues and whatnot.
00:08:06
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:08:08
The Jobs Podcast
So being able, that's the part that fascinates me the most is being able to tap into the mind of an animal and work in synergy with them to accomplish a goal out in the woods in the middle of nowhere, inclement weather,
00:08:08
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:08:16
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:22
The Jobs Podcast
and to use their senses, I'm assuming their sense of smell and hearing is the two that you key in on the most.
00:08:29
Scott Robertshaw
Yes.
00:08:29
The Jobs Podcast
But what types of training you decided you're going to do this now? What is the next step?
00:08:34
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:08:36
The Jobs Podcast
Like, do you start with just simple? It's got to be something that builds on itself. Am I correct?
Training and Bonding with Search Dogs
00:08:42
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:43
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:08:43
Scott Robertshaw
So looking back, you know, I didn't necessarily know any of that getting into it and I kind of joined a team, but I joined a team with a dog that I got from actually one of my college students.
00:08:55
Scott Robertshaw
It was a black lab. His name's Tundra. He was my first search canine and I bought him for a hundred dollars and you know, ah like a genetically bred dog for work is a lot more than that typically, right?
00:09:11
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:09:12
Scott Robertshaw
And so I was like, okay, I had this awesome black lab and he's wonderful. Show me how to train him. So a lot of what we do in search and rescue for canine stuff is, you know, there's not, there's not a lot of schools or paid courses you can go to.
00:09:27
Scott Robertshaw
It's mostly in volunteer teams, people that help each other and you can go to seminars and workshops and things, but, really what, what you're doing is you're trying to figure out, is that dog driven for this work? Dogs are always smelling and checking out the world and things like that. And I've met dogs that are amazing. no no They can do awesome things with their nose, but finding the human in the woods after you a long search or a short one are difficult.
00:09:59
Scott Robertshaw
They might not totally be into it. They're kind of into finding the squirrel or finding the food or they still using their nose.
00:10:03
The Jobs Podcast
And.
00:10:07
Scott Robertshaw
But I think one of the things that's been neat is watching the dogs that man, they just they want nothing else than to to do that work and then whatever their reward system is.
00:10:17
Scott Robertshaw
So you have to figure out, you know, is it a toy? Is it a a ball? Is it food? Is it what is their you reward system? Because that's what they're doing it for.
00:10:27
Scott Robertshaw
They're They're doing that work because of the bond with you. And then they love the game. Your toy comes out, whether whether they just found a bomb or HRD or drugs or some cool invasive species that's being detected. And as soon as they find it, they're looking at their partner they're like, when do I get the toy? And they just go through the roof.
00:10:52
The Jobs Podcast
I, I look back to 911. And I remember that there were some folks that didn't quite understand that these dogs that were out there finding, unfortunately, a lot of them were deceased.
00:11:03
Scott Robertshaw
Yes.
00:11:03
The Jobs Podcast
And the handler would reward the dog for that find.
00:11:07
Scott Robertshaw
Right.
00:11:08
The Jobs Podcast
But it's almost if you're not aware of what's happening, it's obviously we're not celebrating, but the dog is performing a task and needs a reward for them to keep going.
00:11:09
Scott Robertshaw
Right.
00:11:21
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:11:21
The Jobs Podcast
And so that's the kind of thing.
00:11:23
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:11:23
The Jobs Podcast
So you're really tapping into those base like food and pleasure and happiness driven animals. And that's what you're just constantly reinforcing.
00:11:33
Scott Robertshaw
Yes, absolutely and It's nice when Excuse me. It's nice when the dogs enjoy that That reward system that Doesn't take them away from the work. So so if their reward is not impossible but if their reward is a tennis ball and then odor they're trying to find, the live human or something else, is in a pile of tennis balls.
00:12:00
Scott Robertshaw
They have to work through that. So, interesting that you said 9-11, the dog I have now, his breeder, the we call her Grandma Anne, so her name's Anne Wickman and she's out now in Oregon, but she responded from Colorado Task Force to 9-11.
00:12:02
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:12:13
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:12:18
Scott Robertshaw
And so when she took her dog and a couple other, I mean, all those people that went out there, when they came, lots of people came back from that kind of experience and said, now we know this and we're adding to the wheelhouse. We're going to make things better. One of the things that she did is she started breeding dogs specific for this work. And in her breed, in her pack, if you will, like, you know, there's been lots of dogs that bark alert and that, you know, agility and the temperament. You can really, there are lots of agencies across the country that are trying to customize the breeding so that they get the dogs that are ready to go for that kind of work. It's just amazing to watch. And then, you know, just to kind of think that, you know, his grandpa kind of thing, you know, his bloodline was there and then
00:13:11
Scott Robertshaw
the legacy you can kind of keep going and have. And then you go to trainings and you meet other dogs from the same kind of breeding litter. And you can hear your dog and other dogs.
00:13:21
Scott Robertshaw
You hear a bark. You're like, gosh, that sounds like Loki.
00:13:22
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:13:24
Scott Robertshaw
And it's, you know, it's his like cousin or brother or something.
00:13:24
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:13:28
Scott Robertshaw
So it's been, you know, and there's, there's, there's just things that we do in the beginning. You were asking about how do we, how do we train that? I mean, in the very beginning, when they're super cute little puppy,
00:13:37
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:13:41
Scott Robertshaw
I mean, it's just about, you know, you as the handler, you're sitting there with their favorite toy and you kind of run down the hall and do they come find you? And do they want to play with you? And do they, you know, enjoy if do it once or twice, or what if you're hidden behind the rock and then they got to find you? Or then, you know, they spin around a couple times and they're like, where'd he go? And then you see them switch from a visual to their nose working and they're sticking it up in the air or they're sticking it down on the ground to smell that scent on the ground. you start seeing those things happen where the dog shows that it loves this game and then you just keep making it fun and molding it.
00:14:21
The Jobs Podcast
So when you go and look at a litter, you could have 10 dogs of the same breed from the same mom. But there's always going to be that one or two that have more drive more determination than their litter mates.
00:14:31
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:14:34
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, I am not a professional litter mate assessor.
00:14:35
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:14:38
Scott Robertshaw
That's all like, one, it's skill and two, I think it's like instinct.
00:14:42
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:14:42
Scott Robertshaw
These people that do it, they can, you know, they they look at all kinds of traits. There's the scientific side of it, you know, when you you really kind of evaluate their genetics and looking at where they came
00:14:55
Scott Robertshaw
And then there's people that can, they just have, you know, bred lots of dogs and they have done it really well and safely. and And they're, you know, they're just, they're, they have that, just like dogs have instinct or other humans can, you know, certain traits, the, you know, that's something, and it's amazing how you watch a breeder do that and they'll,
00:15:16
Scott Robertshaw
And they'll have a search dog that you can have search dog A and B. And so one for Scott and then this one would be better for Amy, my wife. So just because of knowing the human dynamic, the dog partnered with that person, that's a whole nother level.
00:15:31
Scott Robertshaw
So they they also pair them that way sometimes too.
00:15:35
The Jobs Podcast
I hadn't even thought about that part of it. Yeah
00:15:37
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:15:38
The Jobs Podcast
Some people just have a knack for that. And to parlay that is, are there certain breeds that you typically find like everybody thinks about a bloodhound as far as being able to track somebody and you have labs or German Shortho corners that are retrieval type of a dog.
00:15:48
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:15:53
The Jobs Podcast
So they're used to going after something.
00:15:55
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:15:56
The Jobs Podcast
And then you've got the German shepherds and Malinois that are, you know, A lot of those can be bred to just be machines with no off switch.
00:16:03
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:16:05
The Jobs Podcast
ah ah Do you find that in search and rescue, ah you don't hear about too many search and rescue chihuahuas, I'm sure there needs to be a larger sized dog.
00:16:12
Scott Robertshaw
Right. Right.
00:16:14
The Jobs Podcast
But are there certain breeds that gravitate towards this that you find make up the bulk of these canine units? Or is it kind of any dog that just has the knack, you can take it and run with it?
00:16:26
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, you hit it ah the head with ah ah all those breeds that you mentioned. Border Collies also have been really successful in detection work and also Live Find Human.
00:16:31
The Jobs Podcast
Oh sure.
00:16:38
Scott Robertshaw
And then Golden Retrievers. There's a whole line of Golden Retrievers that's like field trial, very high work ethic, like just
00:16:41
The Jobs Podcast
Oh.
00:16:46
Scott Robertshaw
tough as nails. And then of course there's just like a lab. There's the golden retriever. That's like the best family sit around the pool, hang out dog. And it's just super wonderful for that. So that's also, i i you're right. You don't see a lot of dogs that, for, for work they're going to have to do in maybe difficult or terrain. They might have to jump up or get through, you know, a really big German shepherd. Let's say it's a, you know, 90, a hundred pound German shepherd.
00:17:15
Scott Robertshaw
can do amazing things. And then if you find one that's 50 pounds, then it can get in different spots. And it's also like when they get injured, me carrying Loki, which is like, that's the current dog I have right now. He's about 50 pounds. If you needed to lift them up somewhere or haul them somewhere, carry them or like my ski patrol friends, a lot of times they put them on their shoulders when they're skiing down the mountain to protect their, they have their dogs to like limbs from running and in the skis or the trains difficult.
00:17:47
Scott Robertshaw
You know, in police or military dogs, you know, as far as like getting in and out of apparatus or helicopters, like you kind of have a sweet spot of the size of a dog.
00:17:58
Scott Robertshaw
But yeah, lots of varieties there. I've seen, like you said, German Shorthair pointers, and then You know, in detection work, there's like spring, your spaniel, a lot of the TSA or bomb or kind of drug detection, you know, just high work ethic and they're checking suitcases or the wall or whatever they might be doing.
00:18:17
Scott Robertshaw
So yeah, but size is important.
00:18:17
The Jobs Podcast
Sure. Hmm.
00:18:21
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, I can see that. It's probably helps too if you're In a situation, let's say there's a building collapse and you have all different kinds of needs as far as live find, cadaver find, small holes that you need an animal to get down into to explore and and a pathway versus a large dog that's just maybe on the surface of the perimeter.
00:18:42
The Jobs Podcast
It would help to have a team of smaller German short haired pointers or labs and then maybe a big German shepherd or I don't know if blue healers would be, are they a little too feral for this kind of work?
00:18:53
Scott Robertshaw
I haven't seen a lot of those. I've seen them out with friends and other people training, working kind of also like farm and cattle and ranch kind of situations.
00:18:55
The Jobs Podcast
Okay. Yeah.
00:19:03
Scott Robertshaw
But I haven't come across one in one of the teams. Doesn't mean there isn't one. I've seen and an amazing pit bull be a HRD search dog.
Specific Skills and Challenges in Dog Training
00:19:13
Scott Robertshaw
And you again, it's like you find that dog that has that.
00:19:17
Scott Robertshaw
drive and connection, you know, like you said, uh, bloodhounds, you know, I, I saw a bloodhound that liked to find people in the snow, like the avalanche dogs and then get its toy.
00:19:28
Scott Robertshaw
It was so cute with the big ears, you know? Yeah. And then a Doberman, there's ah ah a guy out in Colorado has a Doberman avalanche search dog and floppy year one, the ears are pinned.
00:19:41
Scott Robertshaw
so you just, you just never know, you know, it's a lot of it comes down to like, that environmental stability also, you know, as far as hot, humid, know, where are you going to be deployed or what time of year, you know, for us here in this area around Table Rock right now, it's a totally different story than it is when it's, you know, humid at 90 and 100 percent and just, you know, it makes it much more difficult.
00:19:55
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:20:05
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:20:08
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, the different types of training that you'll get.
00:20:09
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:20:13
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:20:14
The Jobs Podcast
for a team. You have the cadaver find, you have the live find and we're just talking about the search and rescue aspect. I know that there's the ATF side of things, the FBI side of things where the narcotics, the explosives, etc.
00:20:24
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm. Right.
00:20:28
The Jobs Podcast
But for search and rescue, you've got live find cadaver find.
00:20:28
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:20:31
The Jobs Podcast
Do you typically have dogs that will do both or is that too much for the dog to kind of is it better to to have them stay in one lane or and then what other options are there if any besides those two categories?
00:20:40
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. So yeah, I've seen all three options. So in the live find, there's two Two skill sets.
00:20:53
Scott Robertshaw
One is air scent where their nose goes up in the air and the wind is coming at them. We'll just say on their face and you see the dog pick its nose up and then they do this zigzag like almost like they're in a cone and they're going to the point of the cone if that makes sense.
00:21:00
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:21:09
The Jobs Podcast
Okay. All right.
00:21:10
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah and then there's trailing like you think of those blood hounds and and let's say the wind is at their back And doesn't have to be. But just for example, and then they'll do is you just walked here and you went through the woods. And then they're either on lead or off. Usually they're on a lead, a long lead. And the dog is, you can see him. They have their nose down. And they're like, OK, I saw where he stepped. I can tell because I can smell it. And they follow that path to the live human. And then HRD cadaver.
00:21:45
Scott Robertshaw
that. So I've seen dogs that can do all three and and you can see them with all behaviors. There's a school of thought out there that says either live or HRD. So find the live human or find the cadaver. Some agencies will only only like deploy a single Certified dog others will deploy a dog that can do either.
00:22:09
Scott Robertshaw
I'll bark for the live I'll lay down for the dead And you know, they'll do that.
00:22:12
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:22:14
Scott Robertshaw
So I'm not saying one is right or wrong. Definitely It's important for somebody to make sure they know And their dog will do those behaviors consistently and they have their training records and they are you reliable and all those things. What is really neat to see is ah the trailing dogs and the air scent dogs or your live find dog do both. So they're moving through the woods and their nose is up. And then they're like, whoa, especially when you do training, cause you set up things you know, and then you see them put their nose down and you're like, that's where my subject walked.
00:22:51
Scott Robertshaw
That's cool. And then all of a sudden the wind changes or they get around a bend or a rock, they pick their nose up and then they follow that scent to the, to the human. And you're like, that's awesome because I, you know, the dogs are smart and they want to find that person because then they can get their toy and it's the best game ever.
00:23:07
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:23:08
Scott Robertshaw
So it's really neat to see them do the, both. but yeah, that you can have dogs do all of them. I mean, and some people will run with that and other people are like, you know, I'm just going to have mine be a HRD dog because that's my specialty and I'll let somebody else do the live. And then the lines are very clear when the person, you know, they say I have a find and it's HRD or I have a find and it's live. They're buried underneath this rubble. Then, you know, which you're, you know, what you're looking for.
00:23:41
The Jobs Podcast
HRD that's human remains detection eyes.
00:23:43
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, yeah, sorry cadaver or human remains detection.
00:23:44
The Jobs Podcast
Okay. No, that's okay.
00:23:48
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:23:49
The Jobs Podcast
Do you find when you have dogs? Is it one of those things where yes, my dog can do both? Do most dogs do better when they specialize in either one aspect or the other?
00:24:00
The Jobs Podcast
Or is it pretty easy for them to cross train and be good at both?
00:24:05
Scott Robertshaw
Well, that's a great question. I I If I was to pick like, okay, what am I going to kind of stand on as far as like my, you know, at this point of in my career?
00:24:13
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:24:19
Scott Robertshaw
Again, I'm not taking anything against people that do both. I just think it's clear for the, in my opinion, for the field and for the dogs and then also
00:24:23
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:24:31
Scott Robertshaw
I always try to think of who's calling us. Is it the fire chief? Is it the sheriff? Is it somebody from the county search event? Who's calling us? And how do we tell them what we are and what they're asking for? If they know they have somebody that they're looking for that's deceased, then they want a dog and a teen that's going to come out that's highly skilled in that.
00:24:55
The Jobs Podcast
Sure.
00:24:56
Scott Robertshaw
You know, like in California or when North Carolina when, or disasters or like, you know, for us with, with a fire, I have friends that, HRD dogs in the Missouri, and rescue team.
00:25:08
Scott Robertshaw
And you know, there's a fire in a building and, and once it's cool enough, they'll go in. Cause it's sometimes it's hard for us to locate the human in that building that collapsed or whatever.
00:25:18
Scott Robertshaw
You know, we need to know if they're still in there.
00:25:19
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:25:21
Scott Robertshaw
Well, their dog will come in. because it's only an HRD dog and they'll come in and they'll alert. And now you as you know, the team knows exactly where to look. So I think it's super effective to just pick one or the other. And it is also really good for the live find dogs to be searching with human remains in their search area.
00:25:47
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:25:47
Scott Robertshaw
So my dog will, you know, run around, he's doing it. And ah ah I'll see that, he know, he notices different things out there, but he doesn't do his train final response, his his bark alert when he's over the human remains or the cadaver. He'll only do that when he's over you in a trap spot or something.
Real Human Remains in Training
00:26:06
Scott Robertshaw
So.
00:26:07
The Jobs Podcast
To go down a bit of a rabbit hole, I just thought of a question. When you're doing training for human remains,
00:26:13
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:26:13
The Jobs Podcast
What is the what do you use for the scent that a dog will match up because you're obviously not to be dark, but you're obviously not going to use an actual human.
00:26:17
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:26:23
The Jobs Podcast
I wouldn't assume anyway. What?
00:26:25
Scott Robertshaw
Well, actually actually, you do.
00:26:28
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, okay.
00:26:29
Scott Robertshaw
And you 100% do. And you use all different things. And different states have different rules and agencies, like laws and things like that.
00:26:41
The Jobs Podcast
Huh?
00:26:42
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, so you'll, you know,
00:26:44
Scott Robertshaw
it's one of those things that you have to have chain of custody of those remains and you have to have good documentation and then of course like respect for those body parts or you whether it's a piece of a human, some tissue, people will get that from different things, people will collect it from,
00:26:50
The Jobs Podcast
Sure.
00:27:09
Scott Robertshaw
their own situations, like, man, I lost my finger in the wood shop and I'm putting that in my freezer for training. That doesn't happen all the time. But like, the whole, you know, the idea of human remains handlers, they definitely have to, yeah, you have to have, you know, that you're a separate freezer and containment and, you know, then, then within, you know, normal things that you're training building or your facility.
00:27:20
The Jobs Podcast
Oh my goodness.
00:27:33
Scott Robertshaw
And yeah, so people will donate that you can buy bones of from different places that can help with that process of training. And then there's just like you said, the ATF and that world, the science world has figured out certain containers that you can, you know, store stuff in that helps or makes it better or easier to train with.
00:27:55
Scott Robertshaw
a little bit more scientific. So a lot of times people just have things in like a mason jar with holes poked in the top and then they'll put that source out or like a suet container. They'll put something in there in a tree or underneath a rock.
00:28:08
Scott Robertshaw
And so yeah, you gotta be super respectful and professional with it and then follow all your, you know, the rules.
00:28:12
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:28:14
Scott Robertshaw
And then, but yeah, you are. And then you of course, you know, those folks too, they can't like, you know, they have to make sure that they know what, where it is and can't, you know, have it get contaminated without documenting that so that they can use that in their training records.
00:28:31
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:28:33
Scott Robertshaw
and then you, you treat it different ways. So like the dogs that are really good at finding things in California after the fires have trained with human remains that have been charred versus somebody who had just passed away in their house, you know, or a drown and the dog finds them in the water.
00:28:50
Scott Robertshaw
or an avalanche victim, know, those things are different kinds of scent pictures than the, and I'm not a certified HRD handler. So I'm only, to I only get to train as a support person for those people. There's, that's a whole and nother specialty. So, just working with them, I know that that's something that you have to like, you want to make sure if, you know, if your dog's never found human remains and in a, in a fire,
00:29:16
Scott Robertshaw
then that's a ah ah new thing for them if they are deployed to, you know, a house fire or something like, you know, the wildfires in California.
00:29:24
The Jobs Podcast
Well, yeah, I had no idea that you actually trained with real remains. And that I mean, it makes total sense when you say that.
00:29:31
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:29:32
The Jobs Podcast
And yeah, it may sound a little bit rough, you know, but that's ah one one of the unfortunate realities of life is in order to find other people, you know, the the dead are helping us here living find other folks so they can have a proper burial, give the family closure, etc.
00:29:32
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:29:41
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:29:47
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:29:48
The Jobs Podcast
So
00:29:49
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. I've had people, you know, they had a, we had a person in Colorado that had an accident and they they they were alive. So they chose to donate their limb to a search and rescue team.
00:29:59
Scott Robertshaw
They were, you know, they felt like that was something that, you know, okay, well, darn it, you know, this is not exactly what I hoped it would happen as far as this accident.
00:30:00
The Jobs Podcast
Oh wow.
00:30:08
Scott Robertshaw
Right. So what can I do? you know, just like we do on a driver's license, donate, donate, you know, sticker or whatever, but this person was still alive.
00:30:15
The Jobs Podcast
Oh yeah. Hmm.
00:30:17
Scott Robertshaw
And so they you were able to do the right paperwork and get that to a search and rescue team and in Colorado. And there's some states that it's actually legal officially, officially like to do certain things.
00:30:29
Scott Robertshaw
Other ones, you just have to follow your kind of, ah ah you know, your areas paperwork as far as like kind of the medical things and, you know, just be, be you know, professional.
00:30:38
The Jobs Podcast
Well, that's very admirable for whoever did that.
00:30:41
Scott Robertshaw
So, yeah, that was, yeah, for sure.
00:30:45
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. When you start with search and rescue, let's just go with Live Find.
00:30:52
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:30:52
The Jobs Podcast
You start, what age of a puppy do you typically start? Let's say that the person we were talking about earlier, that's kind of evaluating them and seeing if they have that natural instinct, that natural drive.
00:31:01
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:31:04
The Jobs Podcast
When does someone like yourself who said, okay, You and I, buddy, we're going to be a team where you're going to learn how to do this. I'm going to learn with you because it certainly is not just the dog learning you. When do you start doing that kind of stuff and how long on average does the process take to where you have a dog that you can actually take in the field and utilize their skill set?
00:31:29
Scott Robertshaw
Sure. You know,
00:31:33
Scott Robertshaw
when they're a puppy, I mean, they're, they're in, they're in their litter and the people are watching them do certain things and the ones that are breeding them, they've got like these play areas set up and these toys and, and so they're just,
00:31:48
Scott Robertshaw
really getting them like environmentally exposed to all these different sounds and things like that. So then you have this dog that you're like, okay, we'll do those quick little fun toy runaways. You know, they're 10 yards in the grass in your yard around a bush, you know, and, and so you're, you know, you're, you're kind of, you're seeing that interest from the get go and What I like to do is really spend that early time, not just making them the best searching dog, but making them feel really great and confident with their environment and the game of play.
00:32:23
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:32:23
Scott Robertshaw
And then looking for that natural alert or that natural, you know, final indication. Are they a barker? Are they, ah ah you know, they'll naturally, when they find something, they look at you and sit.
00:32:36
Scott Robertshaw
certain agencies you need a active alert like a bark alert or like avalanche we incorporate a dig if if they will and you know because we're trying to locate and dig that person out of the hole or the buried spot but if if you don't and you can have a passive some people do a down like the dog just naturally goes into it down and um or they'll do this to kind of like grab a toy and bring it back to you or they'll tug on a thing on your harness or your you know your backpack that says hey I found somebody and they just they come back to you and they tug on that. So it just depends on what some of those natural you know tendencies are because you want to support that and build that because that's what when the dog's hot and tired and that tongue sticking out or they've been working all day and you ask them to carry a toy around
00:33:24
Scott Robertshaw
Um, when when they're hot and tired and they're like, uh, I'm trying to breathe here. You know, I'm sweaty. I'm hot. You know, I don't really want to hold that toy.
00:33:30
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:33:31
Scott Robertshaw
So you want something that is, you know, persistent. And so we, we start really young and you know, you just watch that development phase when they, when they're, you know, hitting anything, maybe a fear or they're uncomfortable.
00:33:45
Scott Robertshaw
but you're just really trying to make sure that when. when they locate a human or they're engaged with the human and they find them and they that that they think that's like the best thing ever.
Search Strategies and Technologies
00:34:00
Scott Robertshaw
Right. And so you're just really making that super successful.
00:34:05
Scott Robertshaw
And then you just tweak it as you go. You make things a little bit more challenging or difficult. And you change your variable. then you come back to something after that that's super fun. And then you make something a little harder. It's kind of like sports or anything in life. You just kind of like you move up, you move back, and you kind of move forward on that continuum. There are training checklists out there and guides and things like that of what you want to see before other things.
00:34:33
Scott Robertshaw
A lot of it really comes down to are they enjoying the game? Are they comfortable in their environment? Are they willing to work? And can they turn it on when you need them to turn it off? And can they turn it on when you want them to? And can they turn it off when you want them to as well? Because if it's time to go sit in your crate or be in your space you and not search or sit next to me while we get a briefing or ride on an ATV from here to the trailhead,
00:35:01
Scott Robertshaw
I need you to work when we get out there, not, you know, lose your mind at the car kind of thing. So some discipline there, some self-control is good. The ones that are super high drive and they just love it so much.
00:35:15
Scott Robertshaw
It's hard sometimes to get them be in that, you know, okay, chill mode. Cause they just, they may know it's coming. They can tell, you know, I get to go find and play.
00:35:23
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:35:24
Scott Robertshaw
This is awesome.
00:35:26
The Jobs Podcast
It's like they're going to the park in the car and they're just working up and working up and by the time they get there, they're about to explode.
00:35:26
Scott Robertshaw
So yeah.
00:35:32
The Jobs Podcast
So, yeah.
00:35:32
Scott Robertshaw
Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:36
The Jobs Podcast
When you are about to go out, I know that there's some environmental factors, the heat, extreme cold that can shorten the duration that a canine can be out there, but is there a general rule of thumb as far as, okay, we're going to search for someone who got lost in the woods?
00:35:41
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:35:47
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:35:52
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:35:53
The Jobs Podcast
we're going to do four hour blocks or three hour blocks and then we come back and rest and reset or do you just kind of go out for the day so to speak? How does the time management part work on that?
00:36:03
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, well, that's that's really an important thing to be thinking about in your training plans, too, because you want to emulate that or simulate that, you know, because it's if you only change 30 minute training blocks and then all of a sudden you're deployed for two hours, your dog would be having a hard time, you know.
00:36:23
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:36:23
Scott Robertshaw
So the one of the factors comes into your search area and where you might have chosen to work or communicate to Command. I think we could you work this zone. Or Command might be telling you, OK, you're this dog team, you're with this search party, and you guys are going into this you area. And so if one I told you about kind of got me hooked,
00:36:48
Scott Robertshaw
I mean, we had a whole mountain. Our area was huge.
00:36:51
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:36:52
Scott Robertshaw
So we were gone all day and we took breaks while we're out there. You know, when I had some deployments with Tundra in Colorado, it was sometimes like that.
00:37:03
Scott Robertshaw
Multiple hours or all day thing or or night searches where you'd be out for several hours. And that's because the search area Was larger so you needed to kind of be out there longer and also just take breaks while you're out there Here we kind of have you know smaller search areas in the initial work because you know depending on where you're looking you're looking and you know somebody's a couple acre or whatever farm or you know the Mark Twain National Forest around us which you know it gets divided up into different compartments and we look at it in like search segments
00:37:40
Scott Robertshaw
So that's probably how I would look at it is you want the ability to be able to have a full day of searching with breaks and transitions.
00:37:53
Scott Robertshaw
They never are working that entire time. like You're not running them the entire time.
00:37:57
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:37:57
Scott Robertshaw
They might be thinking about it the entire time, but you're not out there just running the hills. But you if it is something where that the command needs kind of a hasty search or they need a team to do more of a fine search in a certain area or around a pond, you might adjust your strategy just to be able to kind of, it all comes back to we're just one team in the whole search mission that's trying to get information. That person might not even be in our area. We're just trying to, the best thing we can do is go back to command and say they're not in there.
00:38:34
Scott Robertshaw
We can we can say, you know, with high probability that you can focus on other areas versus.
00:38:34
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:38:42
The Jobs Podcast
So you've got a process of elimination as as you go through a grid you can say okay we've checked this whole sector whatever however they break it down.
00:38:44
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:38:50
Scott Robertshaw
Right, right.
00:38:50
The Jobs Podcast
They're not here. We can mark that off now we have seven more over here that we got to look at and it's just you keep working that way.
00:38:52
Scott Robertshaw
Yes.
00:38:56
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:57
Scott Robertshaw
And if it's one of, you know, it's around here in August where the terrain is so dense,
00:38:57
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:39:02
The Jobs Podcast
Mm hmm.
00:39:03
Scott Robertshaw
That would be a much lower number even if my dog ran through it than if it was right now because of the woods are open. you You can see through them.
00:39:13
Scott Robertshaw
So not that I'm looking like that, but the dog as far as how they're moving through that with less vegetation is they can cover more area, they can check more things.
00:39:23
Scott Robertshaw
you know, if it's super dense or a real deep canyon or really challenging, you kind of have to take that area and even make it smaller and then bring your dog back through that a couple times or grid it. But a lot of times you can, once you've, you know, had an opportunity in training to set up a, ah okay, okay, we're going to practice you clearing this left side.
00:39:45
Scott Robertshaw
So just let us know when your dog has done that and you practice doing that with like what they call blind searches. So I don't really know where the subject is. I'm just reading my dog and you're not going to fail.
00:39:53
The Jobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:39:55
Scott Robertshaw
Like they're not going to make you train your dog bad or you know, you'll learn from it. But if you've never done that in training, it's really scary to do that in real world because you're thinking, Oh gosh, if I get this wrong.
00:40:06
Scott Robertshaw
somebody's life is at risk, you know, so, so you want to train like that.
00:40:08
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:40:10
Scott Robertshaw
So then you've got, you know, you're watching me and you're like, yes, you're right. Or nope, you know, read your dog a little different or let's look at the wind. You know, and let's, let's, you know, try that again kind of thing and see if you can figure it out.
00:40:25
Scott Robertshaw
So that's really helpful to do too.
00:40:28
The Jobs Podcast
You were talking a minute ago about managing your dog's timeline as far as if it's really hot and they're panting and you know, it's like I kind of need to dial it back.
00:40:36
The Jobs Podcast
That also applies to the handler. You have to be someone that can go.
00:40:39
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:40:41
The Jobs Podcast
We're gonna walk five, six, seven miles today and it's gonna be in rough terrain or if you're in Colorado where you're at elevation and it's not near as flat out there as it is here as a general rule.
00:40:43
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:40:48
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:40:51
Scott Robertshaw
Right.
00:40:53
The Jobs Podcast
That that can be pretty rough on the handler as well.
00:40:53
Scott Robertshaw
Right.
00:40:55
The Jobs Podcast
So you need to really be able to walk for a long period of time.
00:40:56
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. And you have, you know, a minimum requirement and then you have all the extras. You've got the canine stuff. They don't carry like a pack, like a hiking dog does for backpacking people do that. but that job I had with that first search, I was the one carrying all that extra water, you know, cause the dog, if you don't have it out there and you can't drink from streams or lakes and cool off, you know, dogs, humans need the water and, and you got to carry that stuff for each team and all the rescue gear and
00:41:30
Scott Robertshaw
and first aid and you all that stuff. And then while you're hiking around as a handler, you're watching your dog. You're trying to look at your map. You're trying to think about weather. You're thinking about the wind. You're sometimes having to talk on the radio while you're watching your dog. Just thinking of other hazards that are out there. Sometimes you're training or searching in an area that's really treacherous or maybe even like historical trapping area with like, you know, traps or other kinds of like, you know, mines or, you know, sometimes you'll come across things in the woods that are not, not legal.
00:42:03
The Jobs Podcast
Mhm.
00:42:09
Scott Robertshaw
So, know, you don't want your dog getting into certain things that are out there.
00:42:09
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:42:13
Scott Robertshaw
You know, hazardous that way, or even certain water sources that have, you know, algae or things that could hurt you or the dog, stuff like that.
00:42:23
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, when you are going out into the field with your dog, is your dog on a lead, like a 20 30 foot lead? Or does the dog is part of the training that the dog kind of maintains ah either a line of sight or a certain distance from you before they'll come back and check in with you? And are they coming and going kind of a thing as you work your way towards whatever they're smelling?
00:42:47
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, yeah, so if they're trailing, typically those handlers have their dog on a lead. So they're watching their nose work in case they get off the trail. They kind of post up like you would like leading a horse in a pin.
00:43:00
Scott Robertshaw
and then they help them kind of circle back and then you see them catch that trail and then off they pull a little harder. So typically trailing dogs are on lead most of the time. I always have a lead sometimes it's shorter long and I'll do that with my dogs.
00:43:00
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:43:10
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:43:16
Scott Robertshaw
We had a search where we needed to kind of hike in several miles before we were in our search area and that's a lot of woods and some dogs They're just because of their training with their handler.
00:43:31
Scott Robertshaw
That's what they've really done well with their dog or the dog breed. Like we were talking about before, they just stay close. And other dogs are ranging dogs where they'll like a field trial dog where they go out and then they loop back to you.
00:43:39
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:43:47
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:43:47
Scott Robertshaw
cause they're kind of working the field and my dog's a little bit more of a field trial, a ranging dog.
00:43:52
Scott Robertshaw
So in order to conserve his working time, sometimes I'll keep him on lead with his harness, and we'll hike in. And then, boom, he gets off lead, and now he's supposed to go search off lead as a live fine dog. he wears a GPS collar when we do wilderness. And then I can see where he's at. i kind of get some information based off of his, what he's doing when he's like in the woods and I can't see him. or, you know, I can also take that map information later and use that for. You know, feedback in the sense of like, you know, kind of like debrief, but I can also give it to command and say, this is where we searched. And then they can put that into their mapping system, be able to, you know, kind of look at information of where they want to.
00:44:42
Scott Robertshaw
have the next operational period work or the next dog or whatever might case be.
00:44:47
The Jobs Podcast
Something that you just mentioned there, the GPS caller.
00:44:50
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm.
00:44:50
The Jobs Podcast
I would imagine that technology has made your life as far as search and rescue a little bit easier from as far as tracking where you've been, where you're going, you can kind of see a bird's eye view where you're at, where your dog is at.
00:45:02
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm.
00:45:06
The Jobs Podcast
And I know that you can use drones in certain areas, but around here, especially in the summertime, a drone will be almost worthless because you're not going to be able to see underneath all the treetops to actually what's going on on the ground.
00:45:10
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm.
00:45:17
Scott Robertshaw
Yes.
00:45:19
The Jobs Podcast
So you know, it's a tool in the toolbox, of course, but
00:45:19
Scott Robertshaw
Right.
00:45:23
The Jobs Podcast
Besides the GPS stuff, would you say that's the main technological advance that you've seen? Because working with a dog, I don't see technology really affecting the training and stuff much.
00:45:35
The Jobs Podcast
That seems to be a man and beast, for lack of a better term, um connection that technology just doesn't get involved in.
00:45:38
Scott Robertshaw
Right. Yeah.
00:45:44
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, totally true. were were We're just relying on their amazing abilities to take 10 acres and you you can stand in one spot and the dog can search that and entire 10 acres in minutes and find the person or come back to you and say, okay, let's go to the next area. Versus you out there walking all of that.
00:46:10
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:46:11
Scott Robertshaw
It's amazing, you know, we use the only other technology piece that we use is for the human stuff where we'd like to send GPS dog collars. But there's a program called Cal Topo.
00:46:22
Scott Robertshaw
It's a mapping software program.
00:46:22
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:46:24
Scott Robertshaw
And this, this has been a game changer for search and rescue because so fire department uses it in a lot of places across the country.
00:46:35
Scott Robertshaw
And it's all tied into our our They can have the app on their phone, and then they can record their location, their track. ah ah One of the things that's totally changed the work time for us as is, you know let's say you're lost in the woods and you call 911.
00:46:51
Scott Robertshaw
One, the 911 triangulation is actually getting so much better here that it's way more accurate than it was.
00:47:00
Scott Robertshaw
So that's been a tool, but then the other one is we can send you, as long as you have service on your phone, we can send you a text and you'll click this link, it's like spam, where it and and immediately geolocates you and then puts your location on our map.
00:47:15
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, sweet.
00:47:19
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, it's a locating deal. And we've used it here at Central Crossing and with other agencies in this area. And then for sure, when I was in Colorado and other places in the country, they use it a lot. But it has turned. since I've been here in the last two years, we've had about six or seven official searches in this area where we've deployed our team like to actually do it versus just sending somebody to the trailhead.
Memorable Missions and Community Impact
00:47:45
Scott Robertshaw
And the ones that we've used this on, if we did have service with them, you took a 300, 400 acre Mark Twain National Forest and you isolated a certain area. And it's been a game changer for the person who's lost. It significantly decreases their time. So some people are like, man,
00:48:08
Scott Robertshaw
you know, this is making this so much faster. That's awesome. And it sure is. It's not, but you know, nothing's foolproof, right? Like we can send some, something to
00:48:15
The Jobs Podcast
Yes.
00:48:17
Scott Robertshaw
if they can't access that, then what are you going to do? Well, you have to use all those other core, you know, search or rescue, you know, can you read a map? Can you go out there and hike?
00:48:26
Scott Robertshaw
Can you cover areas? Can you, you know, you know, search as a human and a dog or whatever resources? Cause you don't want to just rely on a, you know, technology.
00:48:38
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, there's so many, you know, the Garmin inReach is one that pops into my head as far as your ability to send an SOS or text message about I'm injured, I'm stuck and
00:48:49
The Jobs Podcast
Technology is really beneficial, but I think a lot of the folks that I would assume a lot of the folks that you find needing to be rescued are folks that weren't planning maybe to go out for a two or three day backpacking trip. They made a wrong turn somewhere and were enjoying the nature. Next thing you know, the sun's going down and they don't know where they're at.
00:49:01
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:49:09
Scott Robertshaw
Yes. And then, you know, of course, their service is dead. And the last time they were pinged when they call 911 is not where they're at when you find them.
00:49:18
Scott Robertshaw
yeah Even if you're on the phone with them saying telling them to stay put, you know, people get antsy, I would. And you know, you start moving around. So it's it, you know, going back to your your terrain and really and and analyzing that. And that's actually how we had a we had a search my very first like couple months I was here in Missouri. Our fire chief was in, you know, running the command and a lot of these people here have been in these woods doing all kinds of things for years. So they're, you know, they're organized very well. And then there was this one other area. And, you know, he was looking at the map and I was looking at him and we were talking and you know, you just start analyzing it. And he's like, I need to
00:49:24
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:50:00
Scott Robertshaw
I need to, know, my next priority is to go into this area. And sure enough, that's where we found the person. You know, it's based off of a lot of that historical info, what kind of details are coming back from your teammates.
00:50:06
The Jobs Podcast
Hm.
00:50:12
Scott Robertshaw
And that was the, you know, the cool thing kind of combined in what we're talking about. That was, I was only here a couple of months. And then, you know, he looked, when you talked about physical, we didn't have another ATV or vehicle to insert us.
00:50:28
Scott Robertshaw
And so my fire chief looked at us and he's like, well, I don't have a way to get you in a, can you hike in? And because of what you said, you know, when, what we did in Colorado and other places, like we have our backpack and our dog is ready to hike in and then deploy. And we ended up doing that me and another, responder. So it was, you know, us three, my dog and him and I, and we head down the trail and.
00:50:54
Scott Robertshaw
You know, we used a scent article. So the other part of the live find is you can do no scent article or you can do a scent article, it's scent specific. So we used the subject's hairbrush.
00:51:05
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:51:05
Scott Robertshaw
So Tundra smells the hairbrush at the trailhead. It wasn't our search area, but I went ahead and scented him because I wanted to see what he would do when we started walking down the trail.
00:51:17
Scott Robertshaw
So we start heading down this trail and then we get to this creek. And we, I wasn't officially in my mind, like, you Okay, I'm really watching my dog, I'm paying attention.
00:51:27
Scott Robertshaw
I was looking at terrain, looking at the map, I'm talking on the radio, and then I see Tundra, like a 90 degree turn, boom, right up this creek.
00:51:37
Scott Robertshaw
And I go, Dennis, did you see that? And he goes, yeah, because he was a hunting bird dog guy.
00:51:42
Scott Robertshaw
And he goes, yeah. And so he had dog experience, which is really great. So I was like, hmm, we might come back to this creek. And we walking on there a hundred yards to our insert spot. And I'm like, okay, let's go to work. you he did he didn't really, my dog didn't really want to go up that trail very much. So he's like, dad, we don't need to go up here. So we walk up the trail. you I take him up that trail a little bit and he's pulling me back to the left, which is towards the creek. And I'm like, Dennis, we're going back to the creek.
00:51:42
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:52:14
Scott Robertshaw
And so we go back to the creek and he takes off to up the creek. And and so we start following Tundra back in this creek and he's left us in the dust and you know, it's thick.
00:52:24
Scott Robertshaw
It's whatever it is. November, August, it was, you know, it was the woods were not open.
00:52:30
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:52:30
Scott Robertshaw
So he's meandering through there. And then we start yelling out and then we hear the subject and and And he's, and we say, yeah, my dog's coming. And so he, my dog was like right at him and he comes into him and he's like licking him and doing his, you know, his thing and brought us right into him. And, and, uh, and so we found the guy and then hiked him out to everybody else. so we get out and, you know, that was just one of those moments where it's like, you're looking at a search area and you're doing all that analysis. And then you have all those pieces ready to go, your gear, your dog, and your,
00:53:06
Scott Robertshaw
you know, it's kind of just a wonderful experience with the whole team. And then, you know, the family that comes out and then, you know, this guy who had medical challenges, we had to help him with that. And, and one of the neat things is once you do that, you watch your dog or what they do later, right? So he just walked out with us, you know, and, and off we go. And then we get back to the trailhead and,
00:53:32
Scott Robertshaw
He's saying hi to the subject, but he's actually paying attention more to the family who's a little bit absorbing this big ah moment. you And he's just kind of like leaning on him and touching him and the dog's happy and he gets petted.
00:53:45
Scott Robertshaw
And just seeing that dynamic play out with the subject's family and the whole team.
00:53:50
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:53:52
Scott Robertshaw
The only reason we were in that area was because all the other team had been searching like five other sections and you know, then the chief was just like OK, let's go over here.
00:54:00
The Jobs Podcast
Mm hmm.
00:54:04
Scott Robertshaw
You're ready to go and then we go in there and it just all came together. So it's just a good unified response.
00:54:17
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, it was super special and especially because you know we're new to this area and trying to learn who the people are here and and for this.
00:54:25
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:54:28
Scott Robertshaw
region to kind of absorb or to kind of take this kind of work so seriously, you know, just like they would for fighting a fire or doing an EMT call, medical call, just another one of the deployments that your community needs. And, you know, like you said, there's there's all kinds of resources out there. It's a matter of just using the ones you have to the best of their ability. You know, if you put your dog like If they would have put us in an area that was unsafe or dangerous or not in our search area, then you come back either hurt or you don't find anything.
00:55:04
Scott Robertshaw
And and it was a good walk, but like, did you use that resource that, you know, like find a drone through dense woods that you're probably going to hurt your drone.
00:55:14
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:55:14
Scott Robertshaw
So that's not a good use of that. So yeah.
00:55:18
The Jobs Podcast
When a dog finds a person, a live find, is there training that you do with, you you know, if you have somebody that is when you're training, someone hides in the woods and then you do the scent and then they're going to go find them and they find them.
00:55:22
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
00:55:34
The Jobs Podcast
Are they trained to then go up and lick them or wag their tail or do they just start barking or do they sit or what's the what's the end like?
00:55:41
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm. Yeah Well with tundra he's a super affectionate dog so his trained final response and he did this is he ran to the person ran back to me grabbed the toy and If he's really excited he would have barked just cuz but he grabs the toy from me like it's sitting on my my pack on my waist belt and he grabs it and And then he goes back.
00:56:12
Scott Robertshaw
refi.
00:56:13
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:56:14
Scott Robertshaw
And with Loki, what he does is he gets there. And he ah were training the other day. And he did the alert. And my firefighter teammate was like, wow, that was loud. Because he barks like
00:56:24
Scott Robertshaw
He's like, raw, raw. He just goes nuts.
00:56:26
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:56:27
Scott Robertshaw
Because he was like, give me the toy. Kind of like what you see on disaster dogs.
00:56:30
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:56:31
Scott Robertshaw
So other dogs they'll go and they'll sit at the you know the subject and they'll bark and I mean they'll just sit there and not bark. But you know Tundra was much more of a like I'm gonna lick you kind of thing and the toy because you will you pet me and you know tell me I'm the best dog ever. That was his style so you kind of need to find the one that works that motivates that dog know use that to their benefit because that's what they're going to default to.
00:56:55
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:57:01
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:57:01
Scott Robertshaw
Other ones, they'll do other things like you're saying where they'll grab a toy or they'll sit or down or bark.
00:57:14
Scott Robertshaw
And you really, the contact with the person isn't necessarily a train final response, the licking. Like, that's not his, do this when you find them.
00:57:23
Scott Robertshaw
That's kind of just some dog's tendency to be a little over affectionate. Some subjects in training don't want your dog all, you know, on them, you know, so.
00:57:33
Scott Robertshaw
And if it's a subject that is maybe hurt or injured, but alive or scared,
00:57:36
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
00:57:39
Scott Robertshaw
you know, you kind of don't want your dog also to, to do
Training Timelines and Specializations
00:57:43
Scott Robertshaw
that. And then potentially if the person startled or dangerous, you don't necessarily want them to the dog to get hurt because they're doing something that makes the person think that they're going to hurt them.
00:57:47
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:57:54
Scott Robertshaw
So they would defend themselves or something.
00:57:54
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:57:56
Scott Robertshaw
So yeah.
00:57:56
The Jobs Podcast
Okay. That makes sense.
00:57:59
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm.
00:58:00
The Jobs Podcast
What's I don't remember if I asked this question, but the process for when you start with a puppy and you realize they may have what it takes, and you start pretty early.
00:58:10
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:58:11
The Jobs Podcast
How long does it typically take to get a dog that is ready to go in the field?
00:58:14
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
00:58:18
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, that's a great question. Um, forgot to answer that earlier. So if you have, so if a dog is like, they're the right dog, right? And you have the system, the support system for training, those dogs can be certified and deploy a bowl within less than two years.
00:58:36
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
00:58:37
Scott Robertshaw
Totally. It's the situation where you're a volunteer and you get to train a little bit on things and maybe once a week at most and maybe your dog is kind of Mostly ready But maybe it's also just needs a lot of support Then it can take you longer or it might not happen and you get down the way and they just decide they don't want to do it and but you know, when we're, when I feel like I'm in, you know, effective training mode, you know, you're training and doing things multiple times a week and those dogs that, you know, are at places that get trained. So there's an organization out in California that trains dogs that I got to go to that does, um, rescues and it trains dogs for disaster search work. Those dogs are being trained three times a day, seven days a week.
00:59:27
Scott Robertshaw
And they are the elite of the elite, right?
00:59:29
The Jobs Podcast
Damn.
00:59:31
Scott Robertshaw
So those dogs are ready and in a short amount of time, but they're also selected.
00:59:31
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:59:36
Scott Robertshaw
So they rescue dogs. And then if there's 10 dogs that come in, however many they pick, all the ones that didn't make the cut, they're still finding their job form.
00:59:48
Scott Robertshaw
Maybe they become a wilderness dog or an abbey dog, but not a disaster dog, or they become like a sport dog. So really, For me, for, you know, it also, the other thing that can get in the way of being certified is injuries.
01:00:03
Scott Robertshaw
You know, you're, you're, you're moving right along, you know, it's year two and you have an injury with your dog and you're like, well, we got to rehab that, you know, and fix that up.
01:00:03
The Jobs Podcast
Oh sure.
01:00:12
Scott Robertshaw
And then, you know, your training gets back on. So having good fitness and nutrition and, and, you know, doing the things we would do as a human, but we do that with our dog. So we're ready for, for the work.
01:00:24
Scott Robertshaw
That also affects your timeframe too.
01:00:28
The Jobs Podcast
One of the things you were just talking about there the disaster dog versus the wilderness dog.
01:00:33
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
01:00:33
The Jobs Podcast
How many I can see somebody you know like in California right now they've got the fires going on out there it's a mess. And I'm sure they have dogs out there that are
01:00:39
Scott Robertshaw
Yes.
01:00:43
The Jobs Podcast
more like rural versus urban type dogs, wilderness dogs versus structural search and rescue type dogs.
01:00:46
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
01:00:50
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
01:00:50
The Jobs Podcast
Do you find dogs are kind of cross trained? It's live find in any environment, or it's cadaver find in any environment or do you then split them up into this dog is made for the Rocky Mountains, the middle of nowhere wilderness and this dog excels in structural collapse.
01:01:02
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm. Yeah.
01:01:07
Scott Robertshaw
Yes, you definitely do. You see them divide up.
01:01:09
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
01:01:10
Scott Robertshaw
It's kind of of like the elite athlete. You know, you're sure there are dogs that can do anything in the environment.
01:01:17
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:01:17
Scott Robertshaw
But that is very, you know, less of a
01:01:22
The Jobs Podcast
Rare.
01:01:22
Scott Robertshaw
less than likely. Yeah. I mean, the ones that love being on rubble, that's great.
01:01:23
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:01:27
Scott Robertshaw
But there's some that are just amazing search dogs that will be on everything except major rubble piles and things like that. And they do great. You know, where we were in Southern Colorado it was was desert.
01:01:40
Scott Robertshaw
So being like cactus aware, you know, versus running around the grass fields of, you know, some other area.
01:01:40
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:01:46
Scott Robertshaw
So just, using your training platform to help teach those dogs those skills and expose them to that environment builds that confidence, then they start knowing how to move to that terrain really effectively when they're younger so they can, you know, because I can Colorado a big boulder field above tree line is, you know, that's a huge disaster field, right?
01:02:09
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:02:10
Scott Robertshaw
So So you can't avoid rocks because you're a wilderness dog or snow or ice or creeks or rivers. But you do you do want to make sure that the dogs that are deploying and that some of those really super, super unique, challenging environments like the floods in North Carolina, you know, that, you know, like a major mudslide.
01:02:32
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:02:35
Scott Robertshaw
So that's if your dog and your handler are not fit and ready and really composed, you know, they're likely to get hurt and not be able to do that job they need to do.
01:02:44
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:02:47
Scott Robertshaw
It's really tough hearing those people tell the stories about what that deployment was like.
Career and Volunteer Opportunities in SAR
01:02:51
Scott Robertshaw
It's there's not much that's, you know, harder than what they did.
01:02:57
The Jobs Podcast
Speaking of deployments, I know that on my podcast here, we typically talk about careers and folks that are firefighters, accountants, doctors, et cetera, where they're earning a living.
01:03:03
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
01:03:08
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm.
01:03:08
The Jobs Podcast
And I know that you had experience as an educator and now you work in the fire service. So I'm going to assume that that's what pays your bills and the canine side of things are the vast majority of folks that are doing canine work unless they're employed by the ATF or you know, they have a bomb dog and that's their job.
01:03:14
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm. Yes. Right.
01:03:30
The Jobs Podcast
These are volunteers of folks that are doing this because they want to help, they find it interesting, and it's something that they want to do.
01:03:40
Scott Robertshaw
That's correct, yeah.
01:03:41
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
01:03:42
Scott Robertshaw
very fortunate to be at a fire department that supports the work and there are firefighters that that's probably the the main place that you can see search and rescue work whether it's wilderness urban disaster fire whatever it is that's probably the one place other than the other examples you said that you could see somebody have a job to do this and the nice thing about my paid job is that you get a ton of medical you get a ton of command and logistics and technical training, and just understanding how those deployment, you know, missions and and things work so that you know how to be ready to go. The volunteer search and rescue teams, huge variety of those, depending on what state you have. And
01:04:32
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:04:33
Scott Robertshaw
you Missouri's got a lot of cool ones in Arkansas. I've just been you learning about the ones in our area and there's lots of great resources out here. I know Colorado gets a big or you California or whatever state that's kind of like the mountain scene gets the kind of attention. But you this area is pretty interesting with some of those resources and being able to kind of pull together for searches or rescues and things like that. But yeah, my paid job is, you know, I never thought this would be my career, you know, being in education and working with students in the outdoors and teaching and doing all that the whole time. But the only reason I got here is because I would be coming back to my paid job, which is a teacher and telling my students about like these search missions we'd go on. And then so we started, you know, doing different things and
01:05:23
Scott Robertshaw
at the university, we started the search and rescue team at the university. So then we got to do that through the college. And you know it's just one little volunteer, ah ah one opportunity at a time has kind of turned into me having this. And then when I got here, that's when I started my own business, training dogs, because I would saw that there wasn't really a ah place that people were doing that.
01:05:48
Scott Robertshaw
And I just wanted to see if I could do it more. So now I get to work when I'm not at the fire department, I get to work with people in their kind of home, you know, their their pet companion. But these are dogs that are like working lines and training them and then, you know, work with like teaching seminars and and just doing different kind of training sessions, whether it's in person or online.
01:06:12
Scott Robertshaw
trying to see if there's a way to get more people that support that maybe they're getting from their volunteer team, but maybe, you know, just want some coaching kind of thing.
01:06:22
The Jobs Podcast
There is a lot that goes into it you have folks that are dedicating their time to train your dog on how to do this and they spend time out you've got I'm sure you have you go through dog treats like nobody's business and tennis balls and leash and there's travel involved in and you things of that nature.
01:06:36
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:40
The Jobs Podcast
So where do you typically go?
01:06:41
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
01:06:43
The Jobs Podcast
I don't recall the location. I want to say it's in
Essential Qualities and Learning in SAR
01:06:46
The Jobs Podcast
Kansas. Isn't there a like a setup disaster city for lack of a better term that you train?
01:06:51
Scott Robertshaw
Oh yeah, that's a great place. It's called Crisis City in Salina.
01:06:55
The Jobs Podcast
That's it. That's it.
01:06:57
Scott Robertshaw
Salina, I'm going to say that wrong.
01:06:59
The Jobs Podcast
Right. Salina I think that's fine.
01:07:00
Scott Robertshaw
I think people say Salina out here. So yeah, so that's a wonderful place.
01:07:03
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
01:07:07
Scott Robertshaw
We've been able to go there with a few different trainings and That's that for whatever team you're a part of, whether it's rescue fire, the military, I mean, it's, that's awesome.
01:07:21
The Jobs Podcast
If we have Missouri Task Force One, some of the guys that I work with on the fire department are members of Missouri Task Force One. And they've talked about some of the different FEMA deployments when they, it seems like a lot of their stuff is geared towards the Southeast where we'll have tornadoes in Florida and things of that nature.
01:07:31
Scott Robertshaw
Right.
01:07:38
The Jobs Podcast
Do you ever get deployed to things like that? Or do you have to be on a specific team like Mo Task Force One to go to those things?
01:07:47
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, you do.
01:07:49
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
01:07:51
Scott Robertshaw
When you're so in Colorado with what we would get deployed on until the state or FEMA came in, was that, you know, initial zero to three day kind of timeframe.
01:08:04
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:08:38
Scott Robertshaw
and
01:08:39
Scott Robertshaw
you know, the readiness is super, super high. So yeah, you have to be at that level or be in that loop to do that. is a state canine thing here in Missouri that I'm interested in learning more about, but there are other resources, you know, so if we're in region D, so if something happens here and kind of the, you know, the CMO or the local kind of IST kind of situation would be or, you know, managing something, then those people can call in different resources from departments. But the example you brought up is, and that's pretty important. You don't want people coming in that aren't ready for that.
01:09:21
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, yeah. What do you think is, if you could go back and do your training with your dogs over again, you've trained other folks, what are the things that you see that people routinely either get wrong or just misunderstand about training a dog for search and rescue type work?
01:09:31
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm.
01:09:45
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, if I could have, right? I think one of the things is spending time in whichever curriculum you can get.
01:09:56
Scott Robertshaw
There's a bunch out there, but just making sure that you understand the dog breed that you're interested in you know the dog, whether you call it cognition or behavior, like what is the dog doing when they're doing these things?
01:10:12
Scott Robertshaw
So when I came out here and I was like, oh, I'm going to learn more. I didn't do more search and rescue training. I did more like canine education on how to reward and support and communicate.
01:10:26
Scott Robertshaw
What is your dog doing when they look up at you with those big white eyes or when they yawn or what's their body position? So really understanding dog behavior and just
01:10:37
Scott Robertshaw
the kind of the dog trainer side that's one spending time in that world and then fitness and nutrition injury prevention and just making sure your dog has good canine fitness because what we're asking them to do is you know go from sitting at the house in their crate or kennel or backyard to being in the car and then hitting the deployment
01:11:01
Scott Robertshaw
And it's like, woo, you know, like, are they ready right now? if If we got a call, is Loki ready? Am I ready for that, that deployment? and so that's really important. you know, there's other things out there as far as some of those canine resources and, you know, like, how do you develop a training plan and how do you document that? Hopefully the team people are a part of.
01:11:28
Scott Robertshaw
have that, but there's resources out for like, how do you organize your training? Because nobody's going to organize it for you unless you like pay for somebody to do that as a coach or trainer. Most people are, they're volunteers. So they're, they're like, okay, my team wants, we're working on this. How am I going to develop the plan in this next week? So just having some experience or some ideas or support system to do that is important.
01:11:55
The Jobs Podcast
what what types of if someone comes to you and says I want to do this.
01:12:00
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm.
01:12:01
The Jobs Podcast
I've got my dog.
01:12:02
Scott Robertshaw
Mm-hmm.
01:12:02
The Jobs Podcast
I've got my leash. I've got my bag of treats. I've got a tennis ball.
01:12:05
Scott Robertshaw
Yes.
01:12:06
The Jobs Podcast
I'm ready to go.
01:12:06
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
01:12:07
The Jobs Podcast
What you know, I talked to a lot of the folks that I interview about the soft skills that allow someone to be successful in whatever career they're looking for. But when someone wants to be a search and rescue canine expert or specialist,
01:12:22
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
01:12:23
The Jobs Podcast
I've got to assume that patience is going to be near or at the top of that list. But what other soft skills do you see people go, that guy's really successful and here's why.
01:12:31
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
01:12:35
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, that's, you know, we talk a lot about the dogs having the drive and wanting to do the work.
01:12:41
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:12:42
Scott Robertshaw
You, they need to, they need to, you know, when they're sitting around flipping through whatever, reading a book or looking online or go and have a chance to go to a training, do they spend the money and time to do it?
01:12:43
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:12:55
Scott Robertshaw
Are they willing to, you know, watch videos and, ask questions and go to seminars and conferences and travel and essentially work so that you have the money and time to to to invest in that.
01:13:10
Scott Robertshaw
So the dog has the drive for the toy, but does the human have the drive to make themselves better? Because they're also having to do both, right?
01:13:20
Scott Robertshaw
They have to make themselves better as a handler.
01:13:22
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, yeah.
01:13:23
Scott Robertshaw
But they have to be ready to work hard for their dog.
01:13:26
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
01:13:27
Scott Robertshaw
Your dog is looking to you to say, well, what are we doing next, Dad?
01:13:31
Scott Robertshaw
And you're, I don't know. I hadn't thought of anything.
01:13:31
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:13:33
Scott Robertshaw
And so, well, cool. ah then the dog would just make up something fun and play with you. But I think that's an important thing. And the other thing that comes to mind is you have to be open to learning and feedback.
01:13:33
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
01:13:52
Scott Robertshaw
You're putting everything out there to learn this and to invest your time. And in order to grow and you be somebody that's able to be called on on a mission and do a good job,
01:14:07
Scott Robertshaw
you have to be somebody that's got that, you know, I'm ready to learn. You know, I don't know everything. And I've got integrity. And people, they see that because, you know, the moment you get a chance to show up for a mission, or even before that, the moment you get approved to be on a team, because a lot of teams have, you know, there's an application. Once you've done that,
01:14:32
Scott Robertshaw
Now you need to you continue to be ah a good example of that organization. you You show up at a deployment and do something that's not appropriate or whatever, then your team doesn't look very good and you're not gonna get called back. So it's important to really have that. Like you said about what if you thought your dog could deploy to California and help, but you're not certified, you're not qualified, you just really wanna do it.
01:14:57
Scott Robertshaw
Well, that's good that you really want to do it. Now go get the training and get qualified so that when it's time, you can go.
01:15:02
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:15:04
Scott Robertshaw
But don't go you outside your boundaries. And I think probably the other thing that makes me, you have to have that love for it.
01:15:15
Scott Robertshaw
So you've asked me questions about the dogs and what they do, times I get goosebumps or I get excited or you know I'm training with my dog and you know it's a hard day you got to bounce back from it because you know that you're okay well that was tough learning okay now what are we going to do this next thing and you know just kind of roll with it sometimes it's a powerful thing to be a part of you learn a lot and you definitely grow with your dog
01:15:47
Scott Robertshaw
And, you know, as a trainer, when I'm working with other people, I love working with my dog, but if I can work with you and the other four dogs in the group, like I'll go to seminars or workshops. And, you know, some people are like, I want to work my dog. And I get that. And I also want to work with the four dogs that are there because what can I learn from all those dogs and those handlers? And then when I go back home, I can take that information into my training plan.
01:16:14
Scott Robertshaw
you know, cause I won't have that opportunity to work with that, that, that group next week, right? I only have that today.
01:16:19
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:16:21
Scott Robertshaw
So then you, you know, you, you go to these things to learn that and then, you know, incorporate that with your, your own plan.
01:16:29
The Jobs Podcast
What I'm hearing, you got to check your ego and you got to turn into a sponge and you're just soaking up all the information that you can because that's just going to make you better.
01:16:31
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. Yes.
01:16:37
Scott Robertshaw
Yes. Yes. That's excellent.
01:16:39
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:16:40
Scott Robertshaw
Synopsis. That's good.
01:16:42
The Jobs Podcast
One of the questions that I always ask, and I don't think I need to ask this, is what do you like most about your job? But we've been talking for well over an hour, I just realized.
01:16:52
The Jobs Podcast
I've enjoyed every minute of it. You are obviously really passionate about this.
01:16:54
Scott Robertshaw
me too yeah
01:16:57
The Jobs Podcast
I don't think I need to ask you what you like because you seem to like it all. But is there every job, you it's got good days, bad days, pros and cons.
01:17:07
The Jobs Podcast
Is there something that you, you kind of wish you could change about your job? Or is there something that you what's the the irritant in your job? Or is there one
01:17:21
Scott Robertshaw
Well, I think one of the things we're working to try to change is we've got some work to do to make sure the agencies that might need those specific resources in the canine field know what's out there and where to get it.
01:17:44
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
01:17:44
Scott Robertshaw
So you might hear about a search where the, you know, kid or person missing and then they didn't call for whatever resources they needed for search. So I think it'd be great to continue to you build that knowledge base in the industry so that you could you use this resource because it's most appropriate or these three things combined because that makes a good deployment or something. and and I think we've got some room to grow grow there.
01:18:16
Scott Robertshaw
And all the other things that we talked about as far as the work we do, it's not really that fun when you lose dogs or they get hurt.
01:18:21
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:18:26
Scott Robertshaw
I mean, that's the horrible.
01:18:27
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:18:28
The Jobs Podcast
Sure.
01:18:29
Scott Robertshaw
you put so much into this. And when you hear of people that have had, you know, challenging things or, you know, a tragedy, that's heartbreaking, you know, whether, whatever dog it is, you, cause it's, it's your partner. I mean, like you spend, you know, if you have kids and, and a job and, you know, a partner and all that, you, you sometimes spend more time with your dog than all the other people in your life. And you're going, wait, but I,
01:18:59
Scott Robertshaw
You know, so it's, you just, you're really connected and you have to balance that.
01:19:03
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:19:03
Scott Robertshaw
So, so that you know what you're doing, but that's, you know, it's a powerful thing to see. And when they look up at you and they do what you're doing. And if you make a mistake, you kind of, you're like, sorry buddy, that was my fault.
01:19:15
Scott Robertshaw
I messed up on that. You know, and you feel like they understand, but you don't know what they do. You they forgive you.
01:19:21
The Jobs Podcast
It's kind of like when you accidentally step on their toe and you hear them let out that yelp and you're just like, golly, I feel awful right now. I didn't mean to do that.
01:19:28
Scott Robertshaw
Oh, yes.
01:19:29
The Jobs Podcast
I'm so sorry, you know.
01:19:30
Scott Robertshaw
Yes.
01:19:31
The Jobs Podcast
But they don't understand English, so just give them a treat, I
01:19:32
Scott Robertshaw
Yes.
01:19:34
Scott Robertshaw
That's right. That's right. Yeah, this love on them and they'll they recover much faster than you do in your heart.
01:19:37
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah.
01:19:41
Scott Robertshaw
But you know, and all the dogs, you know, whether it's, ah you know, somebody's pet home dog versus a working dog, that bond is so strong with all different kinds of dogs that are out there and just seeing those
01:19:54
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:19:56
Scott Robertshaw
those specific, you know, those dogs rise to the, to the occasion of being able to do that work to help find other people. You know, they don't know the gravity of what they're doing, right?
01:20:10
Scott Robertshaw
But they just love the work and they love that process and the game and the connection with you to go out there and train and play and they'll do it all day.
01:20:21
The Jobs Podcast
It is funny how they think they're playing and you want to tell them you just save somebody's life. This isn't a game.
01:20:27
Scott Robertshaw
Right.
01:20:28
The Jobs Podcast
This isn't a game, man.
01:20:28
Scott Robertshaw
I know.
01:20:29
The Jobs Podcast
But you know, that's whatever.
01:20:29
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah.
01:20:31
The Jobs Podcast
Whatever floats your boat, I suppose so.
01:20:31
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. I know. Like, why am I crying? And that my dog's looking at me like, Come on, dad, let's play.
01:20:38
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, yeah. What?
01:20:40
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, it's so true.
01:20:42
The Jobs Podcast
What you had mentioned a little bit ago about you wish that some of the agencies may be utilized their resources more or better. I probably didn't word it as good as I should have. But what is the state? Is there a
Resource Coordination and Career Reflections
01:20:55
The Jobs Podcast
state entity? I know we have Missouri Task Force One. They go nationally. But is there a state organization that deals with canine resources or who's your if you went to the state level, who's your contact? What department is your contact?
01:21:12
The Jobs Podcast
Or is there one?
01:21:12
Scott Robertshaw
That yeah, I that I don't have. I'm learning how to figure that out here. So what I've learned is like within like. You know how we're organized in the regions.
01:21:23
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah
01:21:24
Scott Robertshaw
And and so like I've met a couple of people amount of gentlemen in I think region C or something. So there in those regions they have different people in charge of different things.
01:21:36
Scott Robertshaw
And so the canine or you know technical rescue or other things. within those regions, they organize it that way. And then, you know, if there was a state, if there was an event in region D, then those people would look their kind of, we used to call them in Colorado, like a battle book, which would be like all the resources in region D that you could call for your kind of ready to go mutual aid partners, you know, or people kind of rostered to do certain skills, just like an IST team would be looking for a planning section chief versus something else.
01:21:59
The Jobs Podcast
Okay, yeah.
01:22:10
Scott Robertshaw
So that's what I understand now. And then those resources within SEMA and things like that are coordinated in the event they need it in the state level. um Locally, I think that's kind of seems to me. I mean, in this way, it was in Colorado and other places, too. It's just like relationship building. Chief to chief, sheriff to sheriff.
01:22:34
The Jobs Podcast
Right.
01:22:35
Scott Robertshaw
you know, making sure state patrol, if they are the first one that gets the call about the lost person, how do they interface with the fire department and county or sheriff's office in that area? And, you know, it's not like you can just query a list and say, I need four ATV, you know, professionals and three drones and 10 dog teams, and then boom, they come out of the woods like,
01:23:00
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:23:01
Scott Robertshaw
Some states organize that, you know, California has something and some of the other ones are looking at like ways to, but I think it also depends on the number of calls that a state would get in that category.
01:23:14
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:23:14
Scott Robertshaw
It's just not enough to say we need to have some tool that deploys, you know, that organizes all those people.
01:23:20
The Jobs Podcast
Sure.
01:23:21
Scott Robertshaw
So that's what I know now.
01:23:22
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah, that makes sense.
01:23:23
Scott Robertshaw
I have a lot to learn still in that area.
01:23:26
The Jobs Podcast
Well, I'm sure there's somebody hopefully somebody in Jeff city is listening to this and then they'll get their act together. But it's the government.
01:23:32
The Jobs Podcast
So who knows?
01:23:34
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, yeah, sounds good.
01:23:36
The Jobs Podcast
If you, so if you could go back and start over, would you take any different career choices or different career paths or was there something that was always on the back burner that you thought if I didn't get into education and then get into the fire service and do search and rescue stuff, I would want to do this.
01:23:39
Scott Robertshaw
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
01:23:54
Scott Robertshaw
Mm. Well, my time in Colorado, you know, I was a little older when I was doing it, but I still loved it and tried, you know, as a way to stay fit.
01:24:05
Scott Robertshaw
But like, I think, you know, when I was in college, I would have gone off and done the wildland hand crew. I would have done that for a while.
01:24:14
The Jobs Podcast
High speed gardening, man.
01:24:14
Scott Robertshaw
That was some, yeah, yeah, it is intense.
01:24:16
The Jobs Podcast
That's rough. I've done that a couple times. That's awful.
01:24:20
Scott Robertshaw
I mean, you know, just getting out there with a whole crew for,
01:24:20
The Jobs Podcast
It is.
01:24:24
Scott Robertshaw
I've had a few state deployments connected to federal, you know, fires in Colorado, which were just, I don't know, the whole type one incident management thing is just super intriguing to me.
01:24:38
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:24:39
Scott Robertshaw
So, so that was one thing, you know, I always thought later, it's like, I, cause I never served in the military. So meaning in, you know, the first responder and doing that. but you know, just being like one of those, you know, whether it was in Texas or California or Arizona, or like, you know, the Yosemite park ranger that's, you know, dropping out of a helicopter and helping people with rescues or something like a coast guard thing.
01:25:08
Scott Robertshaw
You know, when you're 50, looking back, you're going, no, that would have been cool. But, you know, I'm super grateful for what I I i did get to do as an outdoor educator and all the trips we led and did all that. So that's probably, you know, like if I was to go back and do something pretty hardcore, I think those would be some things. But doing what I'm doing now, I guess, is keeping me ready to go.
01:25:32
The Jobs Podcast
Good. Sometimes you look back and you think I would do all this stuff, but the journey that you took to get where you're at makes you who you are.
01:25:36
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:25:40
The Jobs Podcast
And you can't experience, you just can't buy that sometimes. Hey, this was one of the most engaging conversations.
01:25:44
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, I agree.
01:25:50
The Jobs Podcast
I had a personal interest in this. I was really looking forward to interviewing you. You knocked it out of the park, Scott.
01:25:55
Scott Robertshaw
Oh, thanks is a true.
01:25:55
The Jobs Podcast
I really appreciate your time explaining everything.
01:26:00
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, my pleasure to joy and I love listening to your podcast. That's been fun to
01:26:05
The Jobs Podcast
Oh, thanks.
01:26:05
Scott Robertshaw
to learn about all the other jobs and careers that people have cool things they're doing.
01:26:08
The Jobs Podcast
Yeah.
01:26:09
Scott Robertshaw
So thanks for the opportunity and look forward to working with you.
01:26:13
The Jobs Podcast
You bet. If anybody is listening and they want to look into your canine search and rescue services you offer training and things, is that right?
01:26:22
Scott Robertshaw
I do.
01:26:23
The Jobs Podcast
How can they find you? What's your website, Instagram, any of that social media stuff you want to want put out there?
01:26:27
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah. Yeah. So the business is called SAR canine training. So SARcaninetraining.com. So that's S-A-R-K-9 with a C, training .com.
01:26:37
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
01:26:38
Scott Robertshaw
And the cool thing that just the way life works, however, whatever you believe in, SAR is, my name is Scott Allen Robertshaw. And so SAR has been my path.
01:26:47
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
01:26:49
Scott Robertshaw
And so take that for what it's worth.
01:26:50
The Jobs Podcast
It was meant to be man. Yeah.
01:26:53
Scott Robertshaw
That's how the business got started. It's part name, part passion. in And in And yeah, we can,
01:26:58
The Jobs Podcast
Right on.
01:27:00
Scott Robertshaw
We can help you with your dogs that are wanting to learn some skills, or if you want to do some stuff with search and rescue too.
01:27:05
The Jobs Podcast
Good deal. Are you on Instagram, Facebook? Do you have a website?
01:27:08
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, all the same things, our canine training, yep.
01:27:11
The Jobs Podcast
Okay.
01:27:12
Scott Robertshaw
Website, so mm-hmm.
01:27:12
The Jobs Podcast
Awesome. Thank you, Scott. I really appreciate it, buddy.
01:27:16
Scott Robertshaw
Yeah, thank you, have a great day.
01:27:18
The Jobs Podcast
You too.
01:27:18
Scott Robertshaw
All right, bye-bye.