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00:00:01
Avish Parashar: Saying “Yes, And” to Change
46 Plays11 days ago
In this episode, Eric talks with speaker, author, and improviser Avish Parashar about a deceptively simple idea that shapes how people respond to uncertainty, conflict, and change: the difference between “yes, but” and “yes, and.”
Drawing from decades of improv comedy and corporate leadership work, Avish argues that most organizations misunderstand resistance to change. Leaders often assume people are stubborn or hostile, when in reality many employees are overwhelmed, uncertain, or emotionally exhausted. The real challenge is not forcing acceptance. It is transforming hesitation and apathy into genuine engagement.
The conversation explores how language quietly shapes organizational culture. “Yes, but” narrows possibilities, reinforces defensiveness, and keeps people locked into existing assumptions. “Yes, and” creates space for curiosity, collaboration, and forward movement. The shift is not about blind agreement or toxic positivity. It is about responding to ideas with openness long enough to understand what people are actually trying to protect, solve, or accomplish.
Eric and Avish also discuss psychological safety, change fatigue, creativity under constraint, and why many organizations accidentally suppress the very thinking they claim to want. They explore how uncertainty can become a source of innovation rather than fear, why resistance often hides deeper concerns, and how leaders can create environments where people feel safe enough to contribute honestly.
At its core, this is a conversation about mindset. About the stories people tell themselves when circumstances change. And about the possibility that creativity, adaptability, and resilience are often less about talent than about learning how to respond differently to uncertainty.
Topics Covered
- The difference between “yes, but” and “yes, and”
- Why organizations often misunderstand resistance to change
- The role of uncertainty and loss aversion in human behavior
- How improv comedy became a framework for leadership and communication
- Why many employees are not resistant, but apathetic or exhausted
- The psychology behind change hesitation and burnout
- How language shapes culture and collaboration
- Why psychological safety matters during organizational change
- The connection between creativity and uncertainty
- How constraints can increase innovation
- Why leaders should listen before persuading
- The dangers of shutting down ideas too early
- How to encourage more honest participation in teams
- The relationship between creativity, experimentation, and growth
- Why “yes, and” is a mindset rather than a literal phrase
- How organizations can move from change acceptance to change excitement
Episode Links
- Check out Avish’s book: https://avishparashar.com/say-yes-and-to-change/
- Visit Avish’s website: https://avishparashar.com
For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com
Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com
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Transcript
00:00:03
Speaker
Avish, thank you for joining me today. Where does today's recording find you? Physically, it finds me in my home in Philadelphia, PA. Mentally, it finds me as usual with the book launch coming up in a state of overwhelm, stress and excitement.
00:00:18
Speaker
Would you mind telling me about yourself? My name is Avish Parasher. I am ah what I describe myself as the world's only motivational improviser. So um I've done improv comedy for over 30 years, starting in college.
00:00:31
Speaker
And then about 20 years ago, I, well, 25 years ago, I started seeing connections between improv comedy, communication and corporate training. And so about 23 years ago now, I started a speaking and training business, which is what I've done.
00:00:47
Speaker
And so what I do primarily now is I ah deliver keynote presentations for conferences and events and work in terms of training and consulting with businesses on how to take ideas from the world of improv comedy, most specifically the idea of saying yes and instead of yes but, and showing groups how they can use that to um communicate more effectively, to increase innovation, and most often how to respond quickly and effectively to change.
00:01:13
Speaker
Can you tell me the story of how improv comedy became that lens through which you started to understand change and leadership? Sure. So it actually happened in reverse. So after college, I started an improv group with the dreams of like turning it into the second city of Philadelphia.
00:01:33
Speaker
ah big yeah you know the The aspirations of of stupid youth, right? Like I'm 21. I'm like, I'm going to blow second city out of the water. ah So I started a group. I was the artistic director, but also the business manager.
00:01:44
Speaker
But since that was my goal, I was devouring and reading everything I could on ah marketing, success, goal setting, leadership. And what was interesting is first I started seeing how those principles would help me with improv in a weird way.
00:01:59
Speaker
So, for example, I read The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. And I'm like, oh, I could totally see this. working in improv. And so I kind of made an improv theory based around seven habits.
00:02:11
Speaker
And then it sort of became like, oh, wait a minute. If I can take business principles and apply them to the performance of improv, Then why can't I take the principles of improv and apply it to business?
00:02:24
Speaker
And as with many things in my life and i think a lot of our lives, the initial thought didn't even come from me. It came from a guy who was an event planner and i was doing an event for him for like high school kids, straight improv.
00:02:36
Speaker
And he looked he's like, you know, this seems like it would make a good corporate team building event. i was like, oh. And so combined those two things, that's why i said, oh, I can use this for more than just entertaining. And that's kind of what started my my journey of applied improvisation.
00:02:50
Speaker
As you stepped into, I guess, that part of your career, Have there been times when you've had some, you know, some insight or some realization that, you know, beyond there was an opportunity, that there were really things from improv comedy that would be of great value to organizations?
00:03:15
Speaker
Yes. And as it often does, again, it came from... A lot of it just came from other people, right? I just started out with, I get my basic improv ideas and here's i think it works. and And this is one thing you're told as a speaker, but it took me a little while to figure out is you got to pay attention to what the audience was telling me.
00:03:32
Speaker
Or I had to do that. And what's funny is yes and was like something I talked about. But it was just one piece of my program. But invariably, that was the thing that afterwards people would talk about.
00:03:43
Speaker
It took me longer than I care to admit to actually realize that, oh, that's the thing that people are resonating with. Let me lean more into that. And as I lean more into that, you know, the insight came really just how powerful it is.
00:03:58
Speaker
And then paying attention to people I worked with or spoke with and myself, just how often, a we limit ourselves with this yes, but language. Like, oh, you know, i should go take this class or go to the gym or or start working on my novel. Yeah, but I'm tired. or yeah Like, we limit it ourselves.
00:04:15
Speaker
And then from a communication standpoint, how much we hurt our relationships by simply defaulting to a yes, but to others. And so once I started paying attention, that's when I started like, oh, wait, there's a There's not just an opportunity here. There's a big need for this right now.
00:04:29
Speaker
In the book, as I recall, you talk about that we we often think that people that are averse to change, that they're just being stubborn, for example.
00:04:44
Speaker
and But I believe that you speak early on about it being more about apathy toward change. Yes. And so how did you decide that that was kind of the real enemy or how did you, what, when did you have that realization? How did it come about?
00:05:05
Speaker
That came about sort of in a similar way in terms of self-reflection. For the longest time, I thought my job, when someone hired me for a change talk or presentation, was to take people who are resisting change and get them to accept it.
00:05:19
Speaker
It seems natural. like all right i And then as I, again, paid attention, um and I feel like I'm answering the same way, but and this is kind of one of the principles in the book. It's about digging deeper and not just like kind of paying attention to what's going on around you.
00:05:34
Speaker
When I would have my pre-calls, I realized they were asking me, I said, they would say, I'm like, what do you want What's going on right now? And they would very rarely say, oh, people are really digging their heels in. A lot of people are arguing with us.
00:05:49
Speaker
It was mostly like, we've got this big change coming. we We're rolling a whole new um yeah ERP, you know, backend system or AI is coming or we're doing a new, we're merging two divisions and there's a lot of uncertainty and people are kind of not sure and they're nervous.
00:06:04
Speaker
We don't have people who are resisting. They're just like, eh. I don't know, I'm hesitant, I'm happy, they have so so many changes. And when I asked them, what would be a success? Like, what do you want at the end of it? they'd almost all say the words like, we want them buzzing.
00:06:17
Speaker
We want them excited. So then I realized, oh, it's not resistance to acceptance. It's you've got a bunch of people that uncertain and sort of apathetic because life is so overwhelming and burnt out.
00:06:28
Speaker
And you want them excited about the change. And so just like everything else, it was was when I got out of my own head and my own assumptions and started paying attention to what people were saying and wanting, that's when that realization came.
00:06:41
Speaker
um And I think it's, I was also sort of shocked to see like how rare it is to hear that. Like, i you know, I it seemed obvious to me after the fact. But as I did research on it, it was like most things are about change are really about, well, people are going to resist or people are hostile. And I'm like, oh again, here's another opportunity you find just by paying attention to what people are telling you.
00:07:03
Speaker
In all the work that you've done, have you identified with have you identified where what we term as resistance often or stubbornness, where that typically comes from?
00:07:17
Speaker
It comes um from two places primarily. Number one, fear of uncertainty. is when we are in a state approaching change, we get uncertainty.
00:07:28
Speaker
So even if your current reality is not great, you at least know what to expect. So there's a comfort in that. And so any change is going to create uncertainty. And the less comfortable you have the uncertainty, the more going resist the change is number one.
00:07:43
Speaker
And number two is um it's loss aversion. Is that when we are looking forward to a change and looking at that uncertainty, We tend to assume for whatever reason, this is something I haven't quite dug into psychology about, but I've seen it anecdotally.
00:07:59
Speaker
We just naturally assume things going to be worse after the change than better. um like that's It's like loss aversion. we start thinking about all the things we like now. So for example, if you were like an employee and I came to you and said, hey, listen, we are merging two divisions.
00:08:13
Speaker
After the merger, though, you're going to get the corner office with the bay windows and a 25% bump in salary. um Oh, by the way, the three people you work with you don't like, they're going someone else's team. You would not resist that change.
00:08:26
Speaker
Because as you look forward, you are anticipating life will be better after the change than before. But because this yes, but default is there for all of us, when we don't have those parameters, we look at a change. We immediately start thinking like, oh, man, what if after this change, I get moved to a bad office and then I got to work with these people I don't like? And so we make assumptions that it's going to be worse.
00:08:48
Speaker
So we resist. How does yes and, or how does this, you know, the, the improv work or your approach deal with uncertainty and or loss aversion? How does that make that better for the people, you know, employees in an organization?
00:09:10
Speaker
So there's this idea I talk about with improv, uh, that an applied improv, uh, that we don't like uncertainty, but in the, in improv, in uncertainty is where the magic happens.
00:09:21
Speaker
So the worst improv I have ever done, and there's a story about this in the book, I admit it, um where we were doing this scene, there were actually reviewers in the audience, it was an important show, and we did this long form, right, which is like a 20 minute long improvised piece.
00:09:35
Speaker
And we all sort of, without talking about it, had this idea, like group think of where it would end. Like, basically, You can read the book, but basically about the Kool-Aid man. And we all envisioned the Kool-Aid man would come bursting through the wall at the end.
00:09:49
Speaker
And that completely limited our creativity because we knew the fix. We had certainty about the end point. Worst improv ever. There was no creativity. There was no humor. We're just tunnel vision. The best improv happens when you step into, you have no idea where I'm going because that's when you have to be in the moment. It's when you have to collaborate. It's when you have to be creative.
00:10:09
Speaker
So this is the message I try to convey to professionals, corporations, associations, whoever is like, yes, The uncertainty is why you're resisting change.
00:10:20
Speaker
And that's why we say yes, but because yes, but keeps us in our comfort zone and avoids it. But the yes and not only gets you stepping into that uncertainty, but it's what lets you turn it into opportunity. Because when you step in uncertainty, all you have to do is just say yes and to whatever happens.
00:10:36
Speaker
So let's say you um kind of go back to like this corporate growth merger thing. You're shifting roles. And now you're going to have to do new tasks that you weren't doing before.
00:10:46
Speaker
For a lot of people, that's a big yes, but like, yeah, but i never done that before. Yeah, but I like what I was doing. If we say yes and to the new tasks and say, you know what? Yeah, going to do these and I'm going to crush it.
00:10:58
Speaker
Well, what do you have to do then? You got to learn. You got experiment. You got to try and fail and see what happens. Right. And so the yes, but is me saying I'm not going to learn these new tasks. So you stay limited.
00:11:11
Speaker
The yes and is yeah. And here's I'm going to move forward. And that's how we grow. So that's how we turn uncertainty into our advantage. Avish, would you mind describing your upcoming book to me?
00:11:22
Speaker
So the book is called Say Yes And to Change. So it takes the idea of yes and applies it very specifically to change through two lenses. One is for leaders who are leading people through change, how they can more effectively take their teams and organizations through it.
00:11:35
Speaker
And the other is for the employees, the people who are sort of forced to deal with change. And this could be professional or even personal, like if you're just going through change. And what I did is I took the word or the term yes and and turned it into an acronym.
00:11:50
Speaker
So each of the letters stands for one step in the process. And so very quickly, the Y is yield to what is, which expand is yield to what is, let go of what was and build towards what can be.
00:12:03
Speaker
The e is explore and express your core, because we often forget to like, hey, who am I and what are my strengths? The S starts small and takes small steps. The A is access and apply your inner creative genius. I think all people have an inner creative genius that we lose touch with as we grow up.
00:12:21
Speaker
The N is notice and nurture emotions. Many of us had the message that emotions have no place at work, um and yet they do. The more you understand that, the better you'll do.
00:12:32
Speaker
um And the D is dig deeper. like Don't just stay at the surface level. Don't just respond immediately, but train yourself to go further and deeper. The book pretty much walks through that yes and framework. And then your hope is that people will come away with a a framework for a structure for being able to implement this in their organizations?
00:12:56
Speaker
Yes. So the I use the word step, but it's not a six step framework as much as a six piece framework. Like it's not linear. You don't have to start with one and two and three. um So part of it is a toolbox.
00:13:08
Speaker
It's, you know, you're going through a change or you're struggling. And, you know, the subtitle of the book is how to harness change, unlock brilliance and transform apathy to excitement. So a lot of it's coming down to which one are you struggling with? Is it we're going through a change and we're struggling?
00:13:22
Speaker
Is it I just feel limited and like there's more out there for me? That's the unlocked brilliance. Or my people, I know they're capable of more, but they seem stuck. um And then there's transform apathy to excitement. It's like, look, I'm burnt out.
00:13:35
Speaker
You know, I'm kind of listless. Or my people are, right? How do I? So based on what your challenge is, you can kind of pick the piece of the framework or pieces of the framework that's going to most useful for you in the moment.
00:13:46
Speaker
At one point in the book, you introduce the change response ladder. Yeah, absolutely. So the change response ladder is a change progression. You know, it's it is incorrect to say some people are good at change and some people are bad at change.
00:14:01
Speaker
Right. It's like we all work on a continuum. It's not just good or bad. And in different areas of our life, we have different responses to change. Like you put me on improv stage and I am the most adaptable, change ready person in the world.
00:14:16
Speaker
In my own personal life, as I've realized trying to apply my material to myself, like, oh, i I kind of resist change myself. um So what the latter is, it's a it's a bit of a diagnostic tool to understand.
00:14:29
Speaker
And it's six steps that kind of go up a ladder. We start with um change hostility. These are the people who are just angry about change and they're letting you know it. they're They're hard to deal.
00:14:40
Speaker
you know Then we get to change resistance. This we talked about, people who they're arguing against it. When you tell them they have to change or we're merging or we got this new policy, they're going to push back on you. Then you move to change apathy, which is like, they're not really doing anything. They're sort of accepting it, but they're, they've been there, done that. You know, maybe this is your third new initiative in two years. I was like, ah, I got too much going on.
00:15:04
Speaker
Then we would have changed hesitation, which is, all right, I understand this change. I got to accept it. I'll move a little bit forward, but I'm not sure what's going to happen. The acceptance is the next level of change acceptance.
00:15:17
Speaker
They're just saying, yeah, I accept it. I'm not going argue against it I'm going to move forward. And they're sort of positive overall. And finally, the one that a lot of people never get to is change excitement. They're not just accepting it and moving forward. They're literally like saying yes and to it. Like, yeah, I'm going accept this change. And here's I'm going to use it to my advantage. Here's what i'm going to do new and different in this environment.
00:15:39
Speaker
And I think that's how we turn change into innovation is when we stop just accepting it, but we say, yeah, I'm excited. I'm to do even more now with the change than I did before. there's a professor and researcher consultant named Robert Keegan, and he has worked with Lisa Leahy, if I recall correctly, and a couple of other collaborators. and One of their books is called How We Talk Can Change the Way We Work.
00:16:08
Speaker
And they also wrote, think maybe in every one culture, they wrote a couple of books, but the One of the things that they talk about is that that they they call most organizations, they're either an ABC organization or a BMW organization. And I forget at the moment what ABC stands for, but I do remember BMW. And BMW is...
00:16:37
Speaker
bitching, moaning, and whining. And that's the basically the way that we talk to each other is in some form of bitching, moaning, or whining. And then they talk about how the way that we talk influences the way that we work.
00:16:52
Speaker
And in their research, they have found that We often treat individuals or entire cultures like, well, they just like to complain.
00:17:03
Speaker
And that's going to be your stick in the mud. That's going to be your spoil sport or whatever else. And when we are going through some sort of change, or maybe we don't even think about it as change. We just think about it as we're just trying to get something done.
00:17:17
Speaker
We will try to get that person on board by, you know, we're just going to convince them that this is such a great idea, or we will try and work around this person or team or whatever else.
00:17:30
Speaker
And there's a lot more to it. But one of the things that they talk about in their books is that if this person has a complaint, They must have a reason for that complaint. There must be something they really care about. And I i do not recall, Avish, if they say it exactly like this, but essentially, if I'm complaining about why implementing a new yeah ERP, for example, is a bad idea,
00:18:01
Speaker
I must care about something. I must be protecting something. And if as the person who's trying to implement change, whether I'm the CEO or I'm a consultant or whatever else, if I can try to understand what is it that they really care about, then i can start to think about Can we actually protect that thing? Can we actually serve that individual's needs or what they value and help them then understand that or help myself understand?
00:18:35
Speaker
I don't have to actually win them over by telling them this is such a brilliant idea. I can win them over potentially by saying, you know that thing you care about? We care about it too.
00:18:46
Speaker
We're going to take care of that thing. And it's not, you know, a silver bullet here, but that we actually sort of often mistake people as being just complainers or just the, as I said, the stick in the mud, when the reality is we're just misunderstanding what maybe is, now I'm going to bridge a little bit here. And so i I hope you can help me understand where this runs up against your experience, you know, runs into your experience.
00:19:16
Speaker
But maybe we can get to understanding where that yes, but comes from. And we can start to actually implement the change rather than we just got to fire the person.
00:19:30
Speaker
We have to work around them or something else. I'm curious, Avish, one, what you think about that and two, where that might interface with that your sort of framework.
00:19:41
Speaker
you know I love that because it sounds very similar a lot of things I say. ah with It lines directly with the with the yes and because here's the thing. ah Yes buts come from a lot of places, right?
00:19:53
Speaker
Fear, lost history. If you've been there for 10 years you've seen this before, you're like, I know what's going to happen. This is going to play out. The other big place yes, but comes from is it's almost always the default reaction to someone else saying yes, but to you.
00:20:08
Speaker
So I talk about this in my speeches is if you if you come to me with a request or prompt something and I say yes, but to you, your immediate response is going to want me to say yes, but back.
00:20:19
Speaker
Like if you're like, oh, we should, um i let's take something really stupid. Like, ah you know, we should move our our weekly meeting. We should move to Friday at 3 p.m. instead of Monday at 9 a.m.
00:20:32
Speaker
And I would say, yeah, but if we do it Mondays, then we can kind of set our week up. What are you going to say? You're immediately going to say, yeah, but at Friday, we can really evaluate the week and go into the weekend. learn like And now we're just going to go back and forth.
00:20:45
Speaker
But to your point, Is that if instead, if you say we should move the meetings to Fridays, I say, OK, that's interesting. Yes. And tell me more about why you think we should do that. Now you're explaining, right?
00:21:01
Speaker
So this does a few things. Number one, the the yes, but battle sort of always raises tension and conflict. I do an exercise with my audiences where I have them play a game. But turn to a partner. This could be in a keynote with 1,400 people in the audience.
00:21:16
Speaker
Turn to a partner. You have a conversation once. Every sentence starts with yes, but. Second time, every sentence starts with yes, and. You run the same conversation. And they can feel a palpable difference in the energy.
00:21:28
Speaker
But it's a made-up conversation about an unreal topic. It's not like talking about a real issue. And I'll tell people, look. How many of you felt frustrated and everyone raised their hands? I'm like, you're talking about a fake conversation and you felt frustrated.
00:21:41
Speaker
Imagine how someone feels when they're talking about something they care about and they're hearing yes, but. So number one, lowers attention. Number two, to your point, yes and is like a digging deeper. right It's almost like a sales tactic.
00:21:52
Speaker
Instead of saying, yeah, but your idea is bad. I'm like, yeah, tell me more. Yes, and why do you want to do that? Yes, and how do you see that working? Because maybe I can uncover the real thing, right?
00:22:03
Speaker
Like maybe you'll maybe eventually it'll come out that, oh, well, when we have the meetings Monday mornings, um, a lot of people dread it. Like everyone sits there Sunday night instead of relaxing at the time home with their family as they're dreading it.
00:22:16
Speaker
Right. You don't want to say that up front, but maybe if we come with that conversation, like, oh okay, I got to change the meeting structure now. So people aren't dreading it. a bla And number three, it creates that kind of collaboration and um engagement. If you feel like I'm really listening to you,
00:22:32
Speaker
You will feel respected. You'll feel more engaged. And then over time, the trust starts building, right? It's not, like you said, it's not a silver bullet. I've used almost that exact same phrase in my speeches. It's not going to once, but over time, you build that yes and relation of the yes and culture. And suddenly those negative people become less so.
00:22:53
Speaker
In performance coaching, there's you know ah a famous book in sports, but also business is the inner game of tennis. And the idea of the inner game is essentially that I think Timothy Galway, if I recall correctly, he said something like,
00:23:14
Speaker
the, you know, the most, the hardest opponent to beat is not the opponent on the court, but rather the opponent that we play inside our own head. You know, the fears, the anxiety, the doubts, et cetera.
00:23:27
Speaker
And so then he talks about this and it was expanded by other people. And, you know, the, the fundamental idea is that as a coach, you If I come in and I try and put something into your head that wasn't there already, I'm now layering on top of your own issues that you're dealing with.
00:23:50
Speaker
You know, even if, Avis, you didn't think of yourself as being an anxious person or having fears or whatever else, you still have questions. You still have challenges.
00:24:00
Speaker
You wrestle with whatever it is, a difficult problem at home, at work, who knows what. And now I come in and I say, either do it like this and or Avish, now we're going this direction.
00:24:16
Speaker
I don't even bother to you ask, how does that impact you? What do you think? You know, how might you address this challenge? So I just put on top of you this thing.
00:24:27
Speaker
And as you're talking, as even as you gave that sort of example, but we're going to move the meeting, you know, I imagine that the phrase yes and might not always come out, but it's the idea of where you kind of, the example that you gave, you asked me, you know, essentially, what are you trying to do here?
00:24:51
Speaker
What are you trying to accomplish? And in the inner game framework, and then I'm a big fan of, there's a tool called grow the The basic idea is when you're working on something, when you come to me and say, hey, we really need to move this meeting, then I will try and bring out of you, where did that come from?
00:25:14
Speaker
What are you trying to do? What do you notice that I'm not noticing? And then as I start to walk you through, GROW stands for goals. What are you trying to accomplish?
00:25:25
Speaker
What's the reality? You know, whats what's what's been going on? What have you tried? Options. What could you do? And depending on who you talk to, is either way forward or willingness.
00:25:38
Speaker
What are you going to do? What are you willing to do? And You use active listening and any number of things. But one of the ideas is that vish if you come to me and say, we need to move the meeting, then before I say, you should go about it like this, you know, rather than moving the meeting, you should do this. Or yes, just go ahead move the meeting, do it like this.
00:26:02
Speaker
Instead, say, well, what could you do? And I let you come up with all of the ideas. And if I see something that I think you don't see, only after I've given you the chance to get out the way that you see the world, more or less, the way that you see the challenge, then I say, do you want any input from me?
00:26:21
Speaker
And, or can I give you an idea? And if you say no, then I need to hold back. If I really trust you, you know, you're not going to make a million dollar mistake, perhaps that I'm going to hold back.
00:26:32
Speaker
But if you say yes, then hopefully I can reflect back to you that you say, well, I have all of these options and here's the reality. Here's the reason, you know, the reason is that people dread the meeting.
00:26:48
Speaker
For example, it ruins the end of their weekend or whatever else. now when I speak, when I so give you my idea, I need to reflect back to you that I heard you. And as you were giving that example, I felt like one, it naturally opens up the opportunity to let that person talk first and to get out the way that they see it.
00:27:11
Speaker
But then also for you to learn what they may be dealing with that you don't see. If you reflexively say, yeah, but. And I, so I, you just brought that to mind, I suppose.
00:27:27
Speaker
And i I'll open up space for you to respond before I move on. But I'm curious if you, what you think about that. And if you've, if you feel like that shows up in this, you know, this behavior.
00:27:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah, 100%. First off, you mentioned something I think is critical. And I talk about this in the book. I talk about it every presentation, keynote, workshop. Yes, and is a mindset. It's not literal. You don't literally say yes, and um it's because it's funny. I've done this exercise playing the yes, and yes, but game. And you can tell people are using the words yes, and, but they're, you know, it's like, hey, where should we go for dinner? I want to go to McDonald's. um Yes, and I don't really like McDonald's.
00:28:06
Speaker
Like, well, it's not really a yes, and answer there. um So it is a mindset. And I mean, the words don't necessarily show up. In fact, it would be awkward if every time you you did show up. um But yeah, to your point, um it it just builds rapport because because it's a mindset and it's a default, right? It's not all encompassing.
00:28:26
Speaker
So one of the pushbacks is that... um well, I can't agree with everything. I can't just say yes and. Like, what if they want to cancel the meeting altogether? Like, that would be crazy, but maybe wouldn't. I mean, I think a lot of meetings could stand to be canceled.
00:28:39
Speaker
um But it's the default. And if you start with yes and and explore, like you said, at the end of that conversation, you can say, look, I hear i hear what you're saying. We've talked about it. You got a lot of very reasons.
00:28:53
Speaker
We're going to keep the meetings on Mondays for X, y and Z reasons. um They might not be super happy about it, but they at least feel like you listen to them, respect to them, took their opinion in.
00:29:04
Speaker
um and you know, there's a whole the whole bit about creativity in the book and in my programs. There's this metaphor I use about having like an empty pond. And if you throw a pebble in, it creates ripples.
00:29:15
Speaker
Well, in these conversations where someone is giving you an idea you disagree with. if you really are able to just kind of calm your mind and really listen and ask yes and and dig deeper, that's going to trigger ideas in your mind.
00:29:28
Speaker
um So in addition to observing things you were unaware of, it's going to give you new creative ideas. But if you, and it if you just start right in with the yes, but you're never going to even give your mind that opportunity. So not only does it build rapport, let you learn more, it's going to increase your creativity and innovation as well.
00:29:46
Speaker
So yeah, I think it's, it's, You know, I've done a number of, I do my own podcast, i interview a bunch of leaders as well. And the common thread is, and I've said this from stage, maybe it's oversimplifying, but leadership is really sort of simple, but not easy.
00:29:59
Speaker
A lot of it just shut up, ask questions, listen to the answers, and then do something with the answers. Like, That's it's it's obviously overly simplistic, but so many leaders, it was early on in the way you were framing it. you You said, you know, the leader comes in and they say, oh, want to move the meeting.
00:30:18
Speaker
And the leader has been like, all I need to, like, explain to them why we can't or persuade them why they can't. And like so many leaders and even just people in general feel that way. I need to get my point across. I need to.
00:30:29
Speaker
It's like, no, just you'll have your turn, especially if you're the leader. You can always have your turn. Right. That's when you just let them have their turn and let them speak their piece. Then then see where it goes. Are there things that I can look for, whether it's in my own phrasing or people's behavior, you their responses to me, to help me understand if i and if i have behavior that's reinforcing yes-but sort of culture?
00:30:59
Speaker
The quick pat answer is ah if they're doing things that forward one of the six steps of the yes and framework, then yes, you are it's using yes and. um But another kind of metric for realizing it, is it open minded?
00:31:14
Speaker
Is it expansive and is it forward moving? Right. Those are sort of like the three of the elements. So is it expanding your thinking or shrinking your thinking? Right. Yeah. But it's like, let me just argue you my point.
00:31:24
Speaker
Yes. And is right. got expand my thinking. um Is it exclusive or is it inclusive or exclusive? Is it like, yeah, and let me try to under, let me hear more of what you have to say.
00:31:35
Speaker
Or is it, yeah, but let me tell you what I want to say, right? So one is including new ideas. The other is saying, yeah, but I'm just going to focus on Here's my point of view. Let's just, You'd exclude the other ideas.
00:31:47
Speaker
And then is it forward moving, at least thought experiment wise? Is it like thinking forward or is it thinking restrictive? So, yeah. And how would this move us forward? Right. Yes. And thoughts tend to be more about forward progress. Yes. But are about putting your head down and maintaining the status quo or looking backwards saying, why can't we go back to how it was?
00:32:05
Speaker
Have you found that there are people that whether they can adjust, maybe everybody can adjust that they're sort of so far gone that it really is difficult.
00:32:18
Speaker
It's not that they can or can't. It's whether they will or won't. Like it's just behavioral change. So unless we're talking about like mental health issues, which I'm not qualified to speak on, you know, I believe everyone can change their behavior. It's just some people are so set in their ways.
00:32:32
Speaker
Um, they're just not willing to. They don't want to. They don't buy it. And yeah, you could. And here's the interesting, right? That's the, that's why, another reason why i focus on apathy, not resistance or hostility.
00:32:44
Speaker
So you've got this small, if you think about the bell curve, standard distribution, right? 10% of people are going to be resistant, hostile, not wanting to do it. 10% are already going be excited, on board, you know, they love everything.
00:32:57
Speaker
You've got this middle 80% that is apathetic or hesitant. So number one, Your greatest opportunity is dealing with the apathy, not the resistors.
00:33:07
Speaker
But they're the loud squeaky wheels. So we want to fix that person. But if you just spent your time on the bulk, you get all these people on board. So the opportunity is there. And then an interesting bit of research I found in in which I mentioned in the book.
00:33:22
Speaker
ah My buddy, Greg Sattel, who's a change speaker as well, he did some studies or he cited some studies and both in like cultural revolutions as well as organizational. You don't need a majority of people to affect a change.
00:33:34
Speaker
Usually like 15 to 25% of a group that gets on board and pushes is enough to create a cascade, right? And one of the titles of the books is Cascades. So we spent all of our effort on that one resistor.
00:33:49
Speaker
But if we could just get 20, 25, 30% of that apathetic group to be on board, then we're going to spread. And if I can say one more, and I'm talking long talking here, but i one more thing about it is um a lot of is also how you deploy your resources.
00:34:05
Speaker
Because as much as I'm a yes and positive guy, we want that culture. That negative critical person has some incredibly useful benefits.
00:34:17
Speaker
At some point, you need someone to step in and look at your brilliant idea and tell you why it's not going to work. And if you've got nothing but a bunch of people who super excited, you go running and you will launch the dumbest product ever, right? Or the stupidest initiative not even realizing.
00:34:34
Speaker
But what you want to do is not have that yes butter, that resistor person shutting down the creativity. So you tell them, look, you are so analytical. You are great at poking holes and things.
00:34:44
Speaker
What we want to do is we want to save that. We're going to come up with some ideas and then we'll show them to you so you can look at them with fresh eyes. Now you've got that person out of the ideation, creative process when you need that positive energy.
00:34:59
Speaker
But when they could be really useful, then you bring them back in and now you're actually benefiting from them without them taking away from the culture and the group dynamic. I'm imagining situations where we announce that we're moving a certain direction in our organization, whether it's a technology change or who knows what.
00:35:18
Speaker
And i think I've done all of the work. to get everyone on board. And then I say, so does anyone have any questions? And, you know, inevitably the people that I really need to convince say nothing.
00:35:34
Speaker
You know, you you will have people who they're okay with the, you know, public attention and say, this is a bad idea or who knows what, but a lot of people say nothing.
00:35:47
Speaker
And then you roll out the new technology or process change or whatever it is. And that's when they come out of the woodwork. You know, you either get a lot of complaints. This doesn't connect to reality. You didn't ask us.
00:36:01
Speaker
It doesn't work. And or you find that whatever the thing is, people just aren't using it. You have this sort of You know, you you have a people, people will drag their feet just by not participating at all. And so I'm imagining these situations where I have done one or more of the right things to get some buy-in or alignment.
00:36:29
Speaker
And, you know, like real, real buy-in is what I'm thinking that they're, they are going to do what it takes. And then i also want to be able to bring out of them that critical thinking still, you know, they're sensitive to where this thing might've gone wrong.
00:36:48
Speaker
And so as you were talking, it's really interesting to, at least to me, to try and think like, how do I use that in a very productive way?
00:36:59
Speaker
without making my change efforts like a trick, you know, where, oh, I got them to say yes in this meeting, but it's just the short term, like a sales tactic sort of.
00:37:13
Speaker
And if that's happening, I think there's there's two potential reasons. There could be more, but two that come immediately to my mind. One is psychological, one is tactical. So psychological is, talk little bit about this in the book, is this whole concept in work called psychological safety, which is, you know, how comfortable do you feel your people are to raise questions, objections, and ideas without fear of being criticized or punished for it?
00:37:38
Speaker
And if people don't feel psychologically safe, they are not going to speak up. And, you know, Google, this came from a study that Google did ah called Aristotle and Project Aristotle. And they found that was the number one trait of high performing teams was psychological safety, not skill or intelligence, just or even strong leadership.
00:37:57
Speaker
So step back and analyze this kind of the the why step in the in the book, the yield. Right. You got to observe what is. Right. are we do we have psychological safety? Do my people really feel safe? And you might be surprised at the answer. And a lot of that is the more they speak up and are responded to with a yes, but from you or others, the less psychologically safe going to feel.
00:38:19
Speaker
Now, if they are psychologically safe, but you're not getting that stuff until later, like the pushback, it's probably tactical. Then, and kind of like your point, you state it, you rate, and then say, anyone have any objections?
00:38:31
Speaker
Any of questions, issues, and You know, some people are not comfortable in a group. So how are you approaching that? So the two things I recommend, well, three I'll give you. One is it's about building the relationships one-on-one.
00:38:44
Speaker
And again, if you're the CEO and you've got a thousand person, it's, you know, it's like filters downright managerial level rises up, but talk to your people, not just like a big announcement and what one-on-one have conversations, go out for coffee, you know, real honest conversations. Yeah.
00:38:59
Speaker
Number two, if you're all going group meeting and you want ideas or brainstorming or anything like that, I recommend starting with writing first. So instead of just saying, give me your ideas, say, okay, going to spend two minutes and I want you just to free write. just Take a piece of paper and we're always gonna write down whatever comes to your mind about this.
00:39:17
Speaker
And you can directly be like, what are your ideas for this innovation? Or it could be, what are you just brainstorm? What could go wrong with this? Because what happens is in a group, your extroverts, your alpha personalities will speak up.
00:39:31
Speaker
You're more laid back, introvert type people. Once they see that happening, they're just going to be like, all right that's fine. Like, I don't need i get the apathy, right? They're not going to speak up. So if you start with writing, it gets everyone to get their ideas out and then people can share from their idealist. So it kind of activates everyone in your group instead of just the loud voices.
00:39:50
Speaker
And finally, and I might be biased being an improv comedy speaker, um make it fun. Like if you put a lot of pressure on people when you want them to come up with good ideas and then they start worrying about the judgment is a good idea. And like, am I going to be like going to say that was stupid.
00:40:07
Speaker
So just say, hey, let's have some fun. and make it a game. Like, let's, let's poke holes in this idea. Like here's a change rolling out this new ERM or ERP or CRM or whatever. Um, like let's just like, what's the worst thing that could happen?
00:40:20
Speaker
And so you get people in a playful state. Now going to get a lot of absurd things, a lot of extreme things, but number one, that opens the door to more realistic stuff. But also even in the most absurd things that people say, you can pull some truth as, as conversation points.
00:40:36
Speaker
Um, You know, like if they say, oh, what's the worst that happens in the world at ERP? Well, um you know... It won't work and we'll lose all of our assets and money and we'll have to bankrupt the company in 90 days.
00:40:48
Speaker
Like, all right, ha, ha, ha. Funny, funny, funny. But they talk but let's talk about that one. That was absurd. But, you know why do we think, how could that happen? Like, oh, well, if we don't have the security protocols in place when we do this new thing, then someone could, you know, it's been a long time to use ERPs. don't know if that's an accurate thing, you know what it is. And so you start like, you start pulling the reality from the absurd, but the absurd is like the doorway into the talking points.
00:41:10
Speaker
So basically all three of those are really about lowering the barrier to participation. One thing that I really like to do is if we're talking about a change and there might be some disagreement about it is to pose it as this has already happened. Let's imagine that we're a year from now.
00:41:32
Speaker
The change already happened. How did it happen? Like wait what got us to this point a year or five or 10 years later? And then you can put scenarios on it. You know, you can say we implemented that ah ERP.
00:41:46
Speaker
Now it's five years later. our scenario or our arc towards the future is that it went terribly. What happened that it went terribly?
00:41:57
Speaker
And, you know, you don't have to put scenarios on it. You can, but if you do, you can say it went really well. What worked? You know, what what did we have to fight against or what challenges came up and it still worked?
00:42:11
Speaker
You can, you know, any number of things. We had to pivot and what sort of crazy black swan events happened that forced us to pivot? But really the idea that you brought to mind is, and I felt like this was a little bit of just positioning slightly differently, like looking backward rather than maybe looking forward, is that I'm not, I'm trying to get someone away from how much work they're going to have to do next week and the week after and how that's going to take away the you know the loss aversion.
00:42:46
Speaker
Like, you're already busy. Let me make you more busy. And instead say, it already occurred. Now tell me how it was that it occurred and yet we survived.
00:42:59
Speaker
a lot of us focus, what are people focused on? and you know, as you said, one is focusing on loss. The other is focusing on possibility, to right? That's that, like, are you being expansive or limiting in your thinking?
00:43:10
Speaker
So I think that is a really powerful piece of it. Instead of getting, think about the more work, they're going to look backwards instead. And the other thing is a lot of these are just sort of tricks, not, not to, you know, used to like trick them to saying, yes, I'm not back. I mean, they're, they're mental tricks to unlock the creativity that's buried inside your people.
00:43:27
Speaker
So just saying, All right. You know, what's on your mind? i don't know. Like that, especially apathetic people are like, I got nothing. Or why is this not going to work? Like, oh, it's fine. I mean, the number like.
00:43:39
Speaker
Here's the deal. I've had jobs I liked and jobs I didn't like. And at the jobs I didn't like. I wasn't a jerk. I wasn't resisting. I would say yes to everything because I'm a professional. I want to keep my job.
00:43:52
Speaker
But there was no enthusiasm. It was like, yeah, okay, fine, whatever. The jobs I liked, i felt good about, i would say yes and, right? I would like say, yeah, we can do that and. So a lot of this is about how do you tap back into that? So it's just another creative scenario, right? Me saying, what's the dumb, what's the worst to happen? dumbest thing we could do?
00:44:11
Speaker
All that does is unlock creativity. You saying, let's look back five years now. What happened? It's just a new directive for the creativity, right? And there's so many different ways. Like I've i've done an experiment where I'm like, you know pick a celebrity.
00:44:25
Speaker
What would Bruce Lee do if he was, um if he was me right now in this scenario? You know, what would Darth Vader do? what And what you just, you're just channeling your creativity in new directions. Cause,
00:44:36
Speaker
The way creativity sort of works is if you give your creative mind the exact same stimulus over and over again, it's going to keep giving you the same answers over and over again. So if you're stuck, either as a team or as an individual, these are all just different thought experiments to sort of get your creativity moving in a new direction.
00:44:55
Speaker
going to bring up constraints, which I'm sure is not a surprise to you because I think we emailed a little bit about this. But at one point in the book, and when I, you know I emailed you and and I said, you it was really interesting that I was reading through the book and I was thinking about constraints, kind of responding to what you were writing. And I think I, I don't really know at the moment or I don't recall Avish, but I bet you I thought, yeah, but what about constraints?
00:45:25
Speaker
And then the very next chapter was about constraints. And one of the things that I emailed you about was, you reading your book, he reminded me of this talk by JJ Abrams.
00:45:37
Speaker
And he says that ABC tasked him with, you know, we need you to write and shoot a pilot for a show, a you know primetime broadcast show, which times have changed.
00:45:53
Speaker
But back then that was, you know, that was the only game in town. And that, you know, but on top of it being 11 and a half weeks that you have, it also has to be about a plane crash.
00:46:07
Speaker
And so now the world of possibility, you think I only have 11 and a half weeks to write and shoot a pilot for a broadcast primetime TV show. It's your options. You feel like are down to almost nothing because it has to be about plane crash. And one of the things he that he talks about, the the title of the talk is the mystery box.
00:46:27
Speaker
because inside of that box with, you know, a show about it plane crash, there's all, like, you don't know what's in there. What are you going to come up with?
00:46:38
Speaker
You know, what are you going to fill that box with? And you have so many opportunities, so much potential when, you think about what could be there. What could I do with a plane crash? Instead of thinking about, well, that's my only option.
00:46:55
Speaker
And so I bring that up because I feel like A lot of times when you give someone a constraint, they think about, well, now I have no options.
00:47:07
Speaker
When in reality, positive constraints, you know, constraints are not always positive, of course. But a lot of times, if I think about what could I do as a result of that, then i do get so much more creative.
00:47:22
Speaker
And so i i I liked in your book that you dealt with constraints, but also I wanted to open the floor to talk about how you see constraints coming up and also how in people's behavior or their language or whatever, but then also how you deal with constraints and how it fits into you know your approach.
00:47:45
Speaker
Yeah, well, first i just want to mention, I think I responded to you that. I love that that talk from JJ. I even think I wrote a blog post about it, gosh, I don't know, 15 years ago. na vote That talk was for a long time ago. yeah But I loved it too. loved talking about all that. um So I thought that was that was great.
00:48:01
Speaker
But the thing with constraints is the... We're all constrained, right? No one has unlimited freedom. um but Maybe you could say like the richest people in the world have like they can do whatever they want, right?
00:48:13
Speaker
But they don't need to be creative. The rest of us, we we we need to. um And really, the key is to kind of put put my language on what you just said is, are you responding to the constraint with a yes, but or a yes, and?
00:48:24
Speaker
I mean, it's so funny. um I sometimes get self-conscious and say yes, but to myself about how simplistic some of the stuff I feel like I'm saying is like, oh, well just are you saying it's like the same answer every time? Like, are you saying yes, Andrew? Yes, but, but if you've got a constraint, um you know, oh, we only have this project we want to do is going to cost, you know, $10,000, only a 5,000 in the budget.
00:48:48
Speaker
All right. Is it, is your response to that? Yeah, but we only $5,000 is it, or is it Yes, we have $5,000, and here's what else we can do there. So is it... Are you springboarding off the constraint to then say, how can we make this new thing even better?
00:49:04
Speaker
So... um Here's is a little, don't know if this is an appropriate example or not. Not appropriate. Like it's not going be like, you're not going to get the E tag on your, on your podcast, but don't know exactly right. But so I'm in the middle of this book launch, right? And and we're talking right now.
00:49:18
Speaker
And part of it is trying to get a whole bunch of people to read the but advanced readers. We send them advanced copies and want them to post reviews on Amazon. And that's great. And about 90 people have signed up to do so. And about 60 to 70 have posted their reviews to Amazon.
00:49:33
Speaker
Awesome. Amazon probably somewhat recently has changed their algorithm. They're like AI that checks reviews. So more than half of the reviews that people have posted are not up on Amazon.
00:49:45
Speaker
Many have been up for a day and then they sweep at night and then they pull them off. Now they're not giving us any reason why. And so I'm incredibly bummed. I'm like, I want to get to 100 reviews at launch. I've got 27 right now, which is an okay number. but I'm like, it's a constraint.
00:50:00
Speaker
Sucks. All right. Every so often, and i don't know if that's going to get you E tag, but every so often you have to apply what you tell others to do to yourself. So I sat back and said, all right, this I'm not going to achieve the primary goal just because of the way Amazon is is doing it now.
00:50:18
Speaker
How can I use this to make my situation even better? And then what I realized, what I'm now going to do is I am going to call every single person who agreed to be on my launch team, which is 227,
00:50:30
Speaker
I just have a conversation. going to say, look, you took the time to post a review. Thank you so much. Here's what happened. It's going to conversation. Now, that seems overly simplistic. And the extroverted networkers out there like, I would have done that anyways. Like, no, I'm an introvert. I'm a performer. I like saying, you know, I never would have conceiv if if everything had gone according to plan, never have thought of doing that.
00:50:50
Speaker
But that will probably yield me so many rich conversations, so many relationships, so many. And I'm not doing it for that purpose, per se. Like, it's not like I'm being manipulative. So it's taking, i had the option of saying, well, here was my plan was to get all these people on Amazon. Amazon's not letting them up. So I guess that's that.
00:51:09
Speaker
But instead you pivot, you brainstorm, you use your capital creativity and what else can I do now? And suddenly my situation three months from now could potentially be better than if everything had gone according to plan.
00:51:21
Speaker
I forget where I came upon this, but I recall there's some famous person who has this quote, and I don't even remember the quote exactly, but you reminded me of this very clearly, Avish, that someone, some book I was reading or whatever, sometimes someone said that one of the primary differences between entrepreneurs and non-entrepreneurs is that non-entrepreneurs imagine the world as it is, and entrepreneurs imagine the world as it could be.
00:51:49
Speaker
I realize there's a bit of, you know, if you're an entrepreneur, that's just going to make you feel good about how you're special and everybody else is not special or whatever, you know? So, but let's set that aside and just take it very simplistically that your response to this particular situation is what could happen?
00:52:10
Speaker
You know, what's the best that we could do? If, if you really just accept that you have Nothing you're really willing to do. It's not about what you could do. It's what you're willing to do. you And you rephrased earlier, I think it was will or won't or something to that effect rather than can or can't.
00:52:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's not can and cannot, it's will or won't, yeah. You know, I use this language a lot and I try not to be, I don't know, who was it?
00:52:39
Speaker
I think it was on The Simpsons or something once. I remember someone saying, or could have been Family Guy, I don't know, it was some, you know, cartoon. Someone saying, you know, that's technically correct. And the response was, yes, the best form of correct or the best type of correct.
00:52:55
Speaker
And so I try not to just be technically correct, you know, as in, it's not that you don't have time, Avish. It's that you won't make the time. And like, yeah, thanks, Eric. That does not help at all.
00:53:08
Speaker
But yeah I do use this language a lot with people that we have time for almost anything. The reality is that we have priorities and a lot of our priorities are set not by someone else.
00:53:23
Speaker
You know, it's you have whether your bank account is $100 or it's $1,000 or it's $100,000. You choose where to put that money. And the more money you have, probably the more choices you have.
00:53:35
Speaker
but you still can't buy everything. And so you have a lot of competing demands, Avish. And yet, if you're willing to make the time, then you have options.
00:53:48
Speaker
And if you're not, then you have to give, you have to take what Amazon is giving you. And so you brought to mind that imagining the world, that entrepreneurial thing, what could be rather than just what is.
00:54:02
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. And i haven't heard the entrepreneurial quote. I know that's probably a adaptation of the Bobby Kennedy quote, right? Which some people will see the world and as it is and ask why and I see how it could be and ask why not.
00:54:12
Speaker
um So whoever did the entrepreneurial quote, like, well done. That's and that's a nice reframe. but um Yeah, it's it's so funny because i I would add in another element from the framework, which is the um explore and express your core.
00:54:25
Speaker
So you're right. I think, and this also ties in the emotion bit. So often it's, we think everything is a logical problem. You know, I got figure out what to do. You know, how can I make like, and some things are out of our knowledge. We need to learn. I don't know what to do. Right. Right.
00:54:42
Speaker
But for so many things, we know what to do. We just don't do them. Like you said, like, it's not that you don't just not willing to make the time. um And I think for me,
00:54:55
Speaker
I think exploring and expressing your core chapter is so personal for me because I feel as a person with, ah if you haven't been able to figure it out from this interview, um i got a bit of the ADD myself, right? I'm like kind hyper and a focus. And i'm not i'm not I'm not a person with great discipline, right? I'm not a military type person. Like I wake up, I do boom, boom.
00:55:12
Speaker
And I admire those people, the goal setting people who are like, here's my goal. And I'm going to never been good at that. And yet for 30 years learning in this space and 20 years speaking in this space, You hear the same message over and over again. You got to be consistent. You got to have discipline. You got to have grit and persistence. And I don't disagree with any of those things.
00:55:30
Speaker
They just so rarely work for me. So what it really, the more I am able to figure out what does work for me and stop worrying about what the gurus are telling me to do or what my best friend who's successful is doing,
00:55:43
Speaker
So, yeah, you know that if you want to be healthy, you just got make better food choices and exercise more. Right. Then why do so many of us struggle with that? It's not a logical problem. It's we're trying to the whole psychological piece I can get into. Right. i In terms of habit, don't mean this and that. Right.
00:56:00
Speaker
But it's probably because you're trying to use someone else's system or answer to your problem. But if you figure out, oh, here's what I like to do. Like, I don't like going to the gym five days a week, but I love gardening. And if I just up my time gardening, that's going to, you know, like things like that.
00:56:16
Speaker
Or I hate eating broccoli, but I really like, you know, these other foods that are healthy. So, I've kind of got a field. i Believe me, if you're watching the video, you know I am not a health expert. ah i am doug I'm preaching into the choir here.
00:56:29
Speaker
But so much of it is learning again about yourself. What are my strengths? What motivates me? What doesn't? What demotivates me? What are my weaknesses? And then building your own path to success around that. Now, if it's in a change or a pivotal moment, like when, um you know, for me, like yeah the Amazon review thing,
00:56:49
Speaker
the solution I came up with had to align with something that I would do. And that was kind of the willingness, right? um Like I hate cold marketing as most of us do, but there's so many times it's like, oh, well the answer is to cold market.
00:57:03
Speaker
And I do it for a bit and it little bit of results, but it makes me miserable. on what the healing is And so, and some people are good at those. Some people love it. They're like, oh i make a hundred cold calls a day. I'm like god bless you i can't do that um but there's more than one path to success and it's identifying what is yours and then then going after it and when is the book set to come out so the launch date is april 29th so actually very soon from when we are recording this i suppose i could be one of those reviewers you know In fact, when people want to review the book, I'm like, get the book. um you know
00:57:36
Speaker
I think it's volume. I don't know why. They don't tell you why. I think it's volume. I think since a lot of my ARC readers were very like supportive and diligent, the first day they were allowed to post a review, a lot of them did. I think Amazon probably thought, wait, why are like all these people posting reviews? So, yeah yeah, get the book, post a review at some point. and Hopefully, Amazon will not ding you for whatever reason they're dinging people.
00:57:56
Speaker
Then, one, where should I go to order or learn more about the book and or to follow you, Avish?
00:58:06
Speaker
And two, whether we've talked about it or not, is there anything else that you want to bring up or words of wisdom or things you would want me to even be thinking about after today?
00:58:21
Speaker
So, uh, for the first question, the two best play, i'll send you two yeah URLs. The first for the book, say yes. And to change.com. That's the title of the book. Um, right now that's just going to redirect you to the most useful place, which is a page on my website. Um, eventually that'll be its own site, but but say yes. And to change.com. And if you're interested in just learning more about me or following me, my website is a v. Pariser.com.
00:58:44
Speaker
Uh, that's got information, my speaking programs and training, my social links are on there. You can connect with me on LinkedIn or wherever. Um, So that's the best way to find me. It's got my phone number and email too, if you want to connect. um And as far as bit of advice, I'll leave for for you or for all the listeners. um it's It's one thing I usually end my keynotes with this.
00:59:03
Speaker
It's an important piece. It's that, and I kind of alluded to it before when I said, we think it's an informational problem. Like I need to learn more. I think that most people, I know I do, have what I call a persistent yes, but.
00:59:16
Speaker
You've got a problem, a challenge would try solve, or a goal you're trying to achieve. What do I do? There's some idea your mind keeps giving you. You should do this. I think this would work. And every time your mind says that, you go, yeah, but, yeah, but i don't want to. Yeah, but I don't have time. Yeah, but that's the thing.
00:59:34
Speaker
You don't need more information. You don't need a class. You don't need to read another book. That's the thing that when you say yes and to that idea, that change everything. Because your idea your mind is giving you that idea for a reason.
00:59:48
Speaker
And once you say yes and to that, one of two things will happen. Or one of three things. Number one, it'll work. You will kick yourself for having spent that long ignoring it. Number two, it won't work. But now you can free up your creativity for new ideas. Because until you try that, your mind going to keep saying, you should do this.
01:00:04
Speaker
Try it. If it doesn't work, your mind can be like, oh yeah, i don't need to give with that idea anymore. Number three, it won't work. It won't quite fail. but you'll make some progress and learn something, which will then set you up for your next step. So identify your persistent yes, but that little voice that you know is in there telling you the same thing, say yes and to that, and then see what happens.
01:00:25
Speaker
The first yes and might be buying your book. So I'll put that out there and say, Avish, I really appreciate you being here. I enjoyed the book. I will go and review it and then I will get my physical copy as well. So thank you for joining me here, Avish. I appreciate it.
01:00:42
Speaker
Thank you, Eric. Thank you.