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Kyle McDowell: WE Is Tested at the Top
47 Plays1 month ago
In this episode, Eric talks with Kyle McDowell, bestselling author of Begin With WE and former Fortune 10 executive, about why most culture initiatives fail long before they reach execution.
Kyle argues that culture doesn’t break down because leaders lack frameworks, values statements, or motivation. It breaks down because real change requires personal cost. Political capital. Short-term discomfort. The willingness to be exposed.
The conversation centers on Kyle’s 10 WEs framework, not as a set of aspirational principles, but as daily practices that either show up in behavior or quietly die on the wall. Eric and Kyle explore which of the WEs are most often misunderstood, which ones are hardest to live out personally, and why leaders tend to turn culture frameworks into critiques of others rather than mirrors for themselves.
They also dig into why so many people feel inspired after books, keynotes, and TED talks, yet fail to act, and how responsibility, not motivation, is the missing ingredient. Kyle reflects on decades of leadership experience, what has genuinely changed about work over time, and what hasn’t changed at all.
This is a grounded, no-nonsense conversation for leaders who are serious about culture and honest enough to examine the cost of living it out.
Topics Covered
- Why culture change fails without personal sacrifice
- The difference between values as posters and values as practices
- Which leadership behaviors quietly kill trust
- Why frameworks become weapons instead of mirrors
- The hidden cost of authenticity and vulnerability
- What transactional cultures look like in practice
- How leaders unintentionally block the change they want
- What hasn’t changed about leadership, despite decades of disruption
- The smallest daily behaviors that reshape culture over time
Episode Links
- Kyle McDowell: https://kylemcdowellinc.com/
- Connect with Kyle on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylemcdowellinc/
- Kyle McDowell Inc. on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kylemcdowellinc/
- Kyle McDowell on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@kylemcdowellinc
For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com
Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com
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Transcript
Introduction & Positivity with Kyle
00:00:02
Speaker
Kyle, thank you for joining me. Where does today's recording find you? Eric, man, it's good to be here. Thank thank you for having me. I think, well, first of all, and you find me in Tampa, Florida, which is not a bad place to be this time of year.
00:00:17
Speaker
Um, But I think more importantly, you find me grateful. and i'm I'm a guy that's, I try to kind of focus and be the the glass half full fellow. um And especially around this time of the year, I'm not exactly sure when this will air, but it's, you know, it's that time of year where it's,
00:00:33
Speaker
it's It's important year round, but I think this time of year, especially to take stock in the things that we should be grateful for, recognize the things that we're probably not as grateful for that we should be grateful for and and focus on those. So you find me in a great place, man. It's ah it's a really good time to have this conversation, which I've been looking forward to.
00:00:53
Speaker
thank you. I appreciate that. I'm glad to hear it. You and i you know, I was lucky enough to get to spend about the last 45, 50 minutes getting to know you, which is longer than I typically get. So thank you for that.
00:01:08
Speaker
Sorry about that. No, it was great. i there's more, there is so much more to know about you. And so some of that we can explore, you know, post recording or in a future discussion, but I suppose as it relates to podcast or your life, you know, would you mind telling me about yourself?
00:01:29
Speaker
Sure.
Rural Roots & Work Ethic
00:01:30
Speaker
So I, um, Grew up middle class at best in a very, very rural town. We we take pride in that we are the strawberry capital of the world in a small town and called Plant City, Florida.
00:01:44
Speaker
ah We have the Strawberry Festival. Across the street from where I grew up was 40-acre cow pasture. Behind me was woods. On the other side of our house was orange groves.
00:01:55
Speaker
um So rural is kind of kind of generous. um But I, and I i start there because i think the foundation of who I am and, and especially from a professional perspective, the work ethic that I, that I kind of bring to the table was instilled in me in a very, very, very young age. My parents were both really hard workers.
00:02:17
Speaker
um They kind of instilled in me this notion that you want something, it ain't going to be handed to you You got to figure out how to go get it. And usually like in my case, I grew up I was this kid that was super fascinated with Michael Jordan and I wore you every time, every year, new Air Jordans would come out and I would be so excited about them.
00:02:33
Speaker
This is, you know, prior to having a job, was probably 10, 11 years old, maybe 12. No, I was actually about 13. And, uh, every single year i knew the drill. If I wanted these shoes, I was going to have to put in multiple weekends of lots of yard work.
00:02:48
Speaker
Um, my parents just instilled in me a very, very early age, you know, input and output. And if you want something, and you got to go get it and work for it. And I think that's, um, that lit a spark in me that, um, I think transcended, you know, we talk about work ethic. It usually is kind of confined to our work lives, but I think it also, um it, it compelled me early on, um, to be kind of drawn towards leadership. Like how do you get the most out of a group of people? And at that point in my life, I was a quarterback in the little league football team and it, um,
00:03:22
Speaker
And it it was always a curious thing to me to be able to, to, to be the one to motivate others, especially when I wasn't even feeling it myself, which is kind of a role that no one really taught me to take on. It just kind of seemed like it had to happen within the circle of the team. And then I played sports all the way um through high school. And that's where the team kind of the we component of, of of my professional life, I think was originally birthed.
00:03:49
Speaker
Um, But anyway, so i and grew up in very humble beginnings, rural America and and found myself um ah leaving college leaving high school, not knowing exactly what I wanted to do with my life.
Corporate America Beginnings
00:04:01
Speaker
I went to junior college for a couple of years and then um got an undergraduate degree, but while I was going to school right out of high school, I was already in corporate America. So my first job inside of the corporate world was with a regional bank here in Florida. And I interviewed for that role when I was 17.
00:04:18
Speaker
um i interviewed in June ah june of 1993.
00:04:22
Speaker
I turned 18 in July and I got the job offer in late July. um i rolled the dice, basically. I didn't, you know, they didn't ask, hey, are you 18? They just, we had a normal interview and for for whatever reason, they saw something in me and and hired me.
00:04:38
Speaker
And it was early, and that was like, man, looking back, I still remember that first cubicle. I remember like it was my plot. It was my place in this corporate landscape. I was surrounded by people much older than me, primary breadwinners for families.
00:04:54
Speaker
um And it exposed me to to a world that I was obviously unfamiliar with. And certainly my friends were as well. Most of them had gone off to college.
00:05:06
Speaker
Um, but I paved my way through junior college and my undergrad at this regional bank and, and just kind of managed to work my way up through the corporate ladder. And, you know, i um I think I was the guy that was probably more open to saying yes, when maybe gnarly opportunities or, or, or problems that needed to be addressed and people kind of would turn their cheek to it.
00:05:27
Speaker
Um, bosses in my early in my career recognized that Kyle was the guy that was not shy away from, from these gnarly things. And, So I said yes a lot. And ultimately that, that, that allowed me, um to kind of climb the corporate ladder, if you will. And, uh, fast forward 30 years later, i left the corporate world, um, to write my book, which I hope we have a chance to talk about. I, um, I was ultimately leading well for, for context and my last two roles before I left the corporate world, I led 30,000 employees. Um,
00:05:59
Speaker
So i I've been in some of the biggest, most complex um operations inside of corporate America, some of the biggest companies and in the world. um And if I were to walk you through that career journey from the outside looking in, Eric, it's like this guy checked a lot of boxes. He had, by most accounts, what could be described as a pretty successful career.
00:06:21
Speaker
Um, but optics can be misleading.
Career Reflections & Apathy
00:06:25
Speaker
Um, so where what I, where I, where I kind of started to slide inside of that corporate identity was with every new promotion and every new opportunity, every, you know, every expanded scope, the only thing that matched the level of increased responsibility was my apathy.
00:06:42
Speaker
I started to feel incredibly apathetic towards the very environments that I was tasked with creating. And man, that is that is a hard pill to swallow when you loathe going into the office or the multiple offices that kind of roll into your organization and you just don't like doing that.
00:06:58
Speaker
ah Not because you didn't like the work, but you didn't like the environment. ah That is a gut punch that... um that compelled me just to think differently about who I am, what I do, what I want out of this existence.
00:07:10
Speaker
The leadership legacy that i that I had failed to even recognize was a thing um for the first 20-ish years of my career. um So i would I kind of categorized my career in two two chapters, the first 20 years and the last 10, and i I led in two very, very different ways.
00:07:26
Speaker
and But not only did the results um fare better in the latter of this of those 30 years, but the connections that I made. and the fulfillment that I found, and the reconnection with passion for my work that I think all of us enter the workforce with, but over the course of our careers, for any number of good reasons, we lose that passion.
00:07:48
Speaker
And I was no different. ah But i I did ultimately make a choice that led me down a different path, which I think obviously um has a lot to do with why we're here today.
Impactful Writings & Book Exchange
00:07:56
Speaker
You said a couple of things there that I want to ask you about. And so I'm going to try and tie together too, so that, you know, hopefully we can not psychoanalyze you too much, Kyle.
00:08:10
Speaker
Let's do that. That that and might scare some listeners. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. we ah But so that we'll have time to hopefully dig into the book, which I listened to and the audio book and really liked, that would be a book that I would put on my shelf here.
00:08:26
Speaker
And you i I don't know if you know this, Kyle, listeners have heard this before. i Typically, I read about 150 books a year. And so for a book to make it on the shelf is for me, that's the kind of book that I'm actually going to go back and read.
00:08:42
Speaker
And I think your book is the kind of book that I would put on my shelf. So I really did like it. Thank you, man. That's, that's really cool you to share. Um, I'd love to send you one if, and if we could do that. I know you picked up the audio and that's great. By the way, i think the audio book of my book, the audio version of my book I think is better than the the paper tangible version or the Kindle version as well. And I don't know why I feel that way. Maybe it's because I was locked in a studio for seven days in like this three by three room recording it.
00:09:15
Speaker
And I have those um memories of being kind of isolated for a week to to do that. But I actually think that... I don't know. i'm I'm one of those guys. Also, I'd love to get your take on this. When I buy an audio book, it must be narrated by the author.
00:09:27
Speaker
And at least that's my personal preference. um It just feels more authentic, more genuine, more connection to the author. So I'm glad you got that version. So so thank you for picking that up. But I'd love to send you one as well.
00:09:38
Speaker
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And yeah, actually, speaking of the author narrating, I do typically prefer that. Of course, there are plenty of authors. ah You know, I don't know.
00:09:50
Speaker
the The person who comes to mind is fiction right now, which is totally fine. But Stephen King, right? He's not going to narrate many of his books, though I think he has now that I say that. Has he? I think so. I i might be wrong.
00:10:01
Speaker
But the... So thinking of future endeavors or whatever, I don't know if you're familiar with... I think you say... i think his name is Mike Michalowicz.
00:10:13
Speaker
He did The Pumpkin Plan and I can't remember what his other books are. But he narrates his own books and i actually... like what he does because he has a ah lot of asides that, you know, tangents or whatever that didn't fit in the book.
00:10:27
Speaker
And he'll just say, you know, this isn't in the print book, but I'm going to say this. And to me, it introduces a lot of flavor, you know, like his personality.
00:10:40
Speaker
Right. And it's hard. I think it's hard sometimes. And and in in some genres, the personality is obviously less important. Right. um But in my book, the first one, there's a lot of there are stories in there that are connected to the why of the book and why some of these things and experiences that I was, in most cases, fortunate and some unfortunate to to to live.
00:11:04
Speaker
it's hard It's just hard for me to to feel as this if it's a genuine story. kind of narrative of the story if it's through someone else's voice. Have you, did you happen to read um or listen to ah Can't Hurt Me, David Goggins
Audiobook Innovations
00:11:20
Speaker
book?
00:11:20
Speaker
I know of it, but no, I've not read that yet. And you reminded me of that with the the book that you just mentioned. So what Goggins did, and so he did not narrate his own book. And and i I read the book and then I got the audio version. And I'm like, ah I'm kind of bummed that he didn't he didn't he didn't narrate this. I didn't check it.
00:11:37
Speaker
But what he did, and it's fascinating to me, and it adds so much more context, is in between chapters, he had a five, 10, maybe even 15 minute podcast style interview with the guy who did narrate it.
00:11:49
Speaker
Um, so you have this voice that you become familiar with and, and, and, and he'll end the chapter and go straight to the podcast style and he'd be like, man, Goggins, what a crazy story you just shared. How are you feeling when, so he goes a layer deeper.
00:12:04
Speaker
It's really, really a cool concept. Um, and I just think it adds, adds more flavor that you wouldn't otherwise get in print. I like that idea. But I, and I know we're here for you to ask me questions, but when you say you read 150 books a year, I just can't let that fly. um, what genres and what is the, what, what, what is the standout of 2025? Okay.
00:12:24
Speaker
and yeah yeah so I primarily read nonfiction and i prioritize things that I think that I can use in my work.
00:12:36
Speaker
I do read some fiction, but less and less over time. Primarily the fiction now that I'm reading is books that I'm reading to my children.
00:12:47
Speaker
And so I still read to my children at night. The oldest is 12, the youngest is seven. And right now we're doing not the main Percy Jackson series, but the one that comes later.
00:12:59
Speaker
And I forget exactly what they call that stuff, but you know, it's children's books or young adult books or whatever. And they laugh for 20 or 30 minutes while I'm reading it. And that's part of what keeps me doing fiction. I used to do a lot of fiction you know, so, Cormac McCarthy is potentially my favorite author that, or Stephen King maybe, but I just find myself, of course, Cormac McCarthy's not writing anymore, but even Stephen King, I find myself not reading or listening to his stuff anymore, but I listened of 150 ish books, you last year, I think it was like 185 maybe. so that was an unusual
00:13:43
Speaker
wow This year, I think I'm on track for about 140 up of about 150, 110 might be audio books. Okay. And then another 30 are probably eBooks, sorry, paper books. And then about 10 that would be eBooks. I have a hard time getting through eBooks personally.
00:14:06
Speaker
Same. Let's see. So standout books of the year. I, um I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to look at my bookshelf back here.
00:14:16
Speaker
Um, so, well, not books that I read this year, but because you and I were talking about it before we started recording kind of books that I recommend to a lot of people.
00:14:30
Speaker
are, we talked about Tamsyn Webster. She wrote, find your red thread and say what they can't on here. And those are two of the best books on messaging.
00:14:44
Speaker
I think they're great for developing elevator pitches for speeches. When somebody says, tell me about yourself, they're How can you connect better with whatever their understanding might be or their existing mental models of your space?
00:15:03
Speaker
And then I'll just throw in here, because I also recommended it to you, you know, before we started recording, her husband's book, Tom Webster's book. which now suddenly i'm I'm blanking. The audience is listening, if I recall correctly, because it is it is the best book on, I guess you might say podcasting, but it's about developing a product that is worth people listening to. And so those were not...
00:15:32
Speaker
2025 books but uh to give to give you a 2025 book a podcast guest lance mortlock who at the time of this recording i released his episode three weeks ago maybe So that would have been in early November, I think.
00:15:52
Speaker
He is a partner, I think it is, at Ernst & Young and manages something like 3,000 people or whatever in Canada. He wrote his second book called Outside In, Inside Out.
00:16:08
Speaker
And For business strategy, it is a really great overview of all of these different frameworks or approaches to business strategy.
00:16:20
Speaker
I will say though, as I said to him, it is really hard to get through because you have to be dedicated to thinking about it. You know, if you're not willing to think about everything that he's talking about, then 300 and something pages is just hard to get through.
00:16:37
Speaker
So for the right audience, it's a stellar book, but it wouldn't be something that I would recommend to the average reader because it it takes a lot of effort.
00:16:50
Speaker
You got chase it. I would imagine you got to chase spec any book on framework. Have you read Traction? Oh yeah. and i have I think in my mind, we talk about frameworks, um, I feel like that was laid out in such a way that it was kind of easy to traverse that, that one. But if, if, if his is covering multiple frameworks, boy, it does seem like that would be, that's a commitment.
00:17:14
Speaker
It's packed. It's, you know, there's, it's not written like a textbook, but it has a lot of information like a textbook. And so, but something that's nice, you know,
00:17:29
Speaker
maybe we can have a little bit of a ah a tangent on a tangent here, but the, the, you know, you mentioned in your book, begin with we coaching people.
00:17:42
Speaker
And so maybe you you tell me what your business looks like today here in a second, but, Assuming that you know you're consulting, coaching, whatever it is, I suspect that there are some frameworks or approaches that you use very often because you like them or you find that they're very sort of fundamental.
Speaking & Coaching Career
00:18:04
Speaker
But then there are probably other things, like you have a library of things that say, oh, well, in this case, right maybe we think about it in this way. And so hopefully you'll tell me a little bit about what your work looks like or if that's true. But then the reason that I am mentioning that in relation to the book is because if you find yourself saying, well, how do we think about this challenge that a client has?
00:18:30
Speaker
Or, you know, I need need to do some market research, but it's, you know, the challenge that we're facing is just a little bit different from the way that we normally approach it.
00:18:41
Speaker
His book is like the encyclopedia of all of those different approaches. And it's just enough to understand what you might want to do and then tell you, like you could act upon it if you wanted to, because he gives you just enough information, but also, you know, you know, you now know enough to go and learn more.
00:19:05
Speaker
And you can also go back if, if, if you didn't quite take it all in, I would imagine it can be a resource. Well, you said encyclopedia, it can be a resource that, that doesn't age.
00:19:17
Speaker
Um, Well, and it's probably, he no disrespect intended, it's probably heck of a lot cheaper than the hourly rate of said partner. Before we move on, tell me though, confirm or disconfirm, Orme, you mentioned coaching in your book. And so what does your work look like? Are you coaching individuals? Do you consult teams? Is it mostly speaking?
00:19:42
Speaker
Um, it depends on the time of year. um so, but throughout the year I maintain a very small roster. I shouldn't even use that word. Um, I have a small list of clients that I do one-to-one coaching with.
00:19:54
Speaker
Um, and they are, they're, they're year round. Um, I usually stay between three and five. yeah I just feel like if I'm going to give my undivided attention to someone, they deserve my undivided attention, not as, you know, not just a means to an end in terms of revenue for for the company. I just, I don't want to do that.
00:20:13
Speaker
So I've found that's kind of a sweet spot for me. um And I say it depends on time of year because as you know, we're we're in the holidays now and my speaking um activity is down a lot this time of year. You just don't, there's just not a lot of conferences, not a lot of organizations i'm looking to bring someone this time of year because a lot of folks are obviously on vacation.
00:20:32
Speaker
Um, but it's those spring and summer months that, um, most of my time is spent on stage. So I do a lot of, a lot of public speaking, um, mostly for individual organizations. So, and that, that can be a split between, um, like the senior leadership team or an all hands meeting. So I just gave a talk to a, um, a title insurance organization up in the panhandle and it was their entire company came.
00:20:58
Speaker
And we're going to follow up to do more focused leadership team activities. And and it the cadence for me usually looks like this. so I'll, you know, somehow be connected with someone who's interested in having um me come deliver a talk. And it's usually because they've read the book or someone in their, on their team or in the organization has read the book and they want to go deeper.
00:21:18
Speaker
and So I'll go out, do a talk. um And I would say 90% of those talks end up in some type of follow-up. activity. And that's usually going deeper with the leadership team. So we have a workbook that accompanies the book, um which is filled with um reflection, um discussion, and do type exercises.
00:21:42
Speaker
And we'll do that. So I have ah a trainer on the team. So we'll go in together and she's a brilliant adult learning expert. um So she kind of keeps us on task while for lack of a better term, MC, just kind of walking us through the modules and um And it's a really cool thing to see because you can you can you can apply you can apply my experiences and the things that I have either perpetrated or been a victim to or been fortunate enough to be around.
00:22:10
Speaker
And that's industry agnostic in most cases. So it allows me to kind of connect with the leadership team. And when I hear things that You know, frankly, so can I say bullshit, Eric? going to get in trouble? Go for it.
00:22:21
Speaker
So, so I've heard it all. I've said it all. Um, I've been around a lot, so it, it allows me to kind of call bullshit when people are phoning in or trying to outsource, um, growth and development and, and even downright transformation.
00:22:36
Speaker
Um, but you also are fortunate enough to see people's kind of guard go down. when when they, when, and it's not always, but more often than not, when we start to go through these reflection exercises, pulling content from the book and asking people their personal experiences or or professional experiences on any one topic, um those are things that typically would not be discussed in a staff meeting. So if, you know, Jill at the end of the table is sharing experience that's, you know, because I've asked her about, you know, tell me about a time when, or can you recall the last time, you know, insert question here, know, Those aren't questions that are usually asked inside of a typical staff meeting or anytime any type of meeting for that matter. So when when Jill shares her answer, someone at the other end the table is like, I never knew that about her. I never knew she overcame that or I never knew she had experience in that area of our business.
00:23:27
Speaker
So you start to see these connections form them that wouldn't otherwise form. Um, you know, so back to the original question, it's, it's, um, speaking is probably the lion's share of our, of our, of our business, um, initially, but then the repeat business that comes from working with leadership teams or sometimes even just one or two executives inside of that organization almost always follows, um,
00:23:53
Speaker
Um, and then we, we chatted about this before, before you press record. And as of late the last couple of months, a lot of my time has been spent focused on the second book.
00:24:04
Speaker
Um, so I'm really excited about that. We're, um, we have a proposal in hand and that's going to, um, some publishers first part of January. um There's a lot that goes into that, man. A book proposal is more than just a few few sheets of here's what we'd like to to write about. It's chapter summaries. It's biography on me. It's marketing material and marketing data and sales information from the first book. um So putting all that together has been, um it's been a blast for me, but also it takes up a lot of time as well. So i do want to hear more about the second book before we come to it, because we've talked about your book a little bit.
Motivation Behind 'Begin With We'
00:24:47
Speaker
How do you describe your first book, Begin With We? I think the workforce today, by and large, there are exceptions, is ripe with dysfunction and in many cases, just downright toxicity.
00:24:59
Speaker
And in in my travels, I've kind of concluded that the the most toxic of environments and the most dysfunctional of environments are usually the product of poor leadership.
00:25:13
Speaker
And, and that's exacerbated by the leaders in those organizations, not recognizing the role that they're playing in that toxicity and dysfunction. And that is usually in my experience or my opinion, driven by ego.
00:25:27
Speaker
Um, um, there's this, there's this, well, I'll speak for myself, and but I do think it's, it is not an unusual kind of phenomenon.
00:25:39
Speaker
So we've all been in this environment in our work lives where we report to someone that we just don't like. we We think they're bad leaders. They don't carry they don't care the values that our organization stands for. they don't um you know They're obviously more interested or invested in their own growth and their own accolades and attaboys. And I am a means to an end to achieve those things.
00:26:01
Speaker
But what happens so often is um that leader or boss, I should say, that I loathe gets promoted and is now responsible for um hiring their backfill.
00:26:14
Speaker
And there's this, it's natural, it's it's just, it's human nature. When we throw our hands up to say, I'd like to be considered for that role, we start to emulate those same shitty behaviors that we saw in in the boss that we've loathed the last number of months or years. Why? Because we want to endear ourselves to that person because they're the ones making the decision to promote us, give us more money, scope of you know so scope of of influence, things like that.
00:26:37
Speaker
And then the cycle just, and before you know it, you've been repeating those same bad behaviors, driving the toxicity and dysfunction that you were complaining about before you were in that role. So the cycle becomes normal.
00:26:50
Speaker
um And egos stand in the way of recognizing the value of we and i'll i'll come back to that in a moment why i'm so adamant in and conspicuously using the word we and because i think it's the antidote for this ego and and uh perfection pedestal and look at me this this leadership gap that that i think so many bosses bring with them um on a daily basis if not on every interaction basis Um, so my book was, it was written to combat that, but I didn't want the book to be hollow.
00:27:27
Speaker
Um, so it had to be based on my own experiences. And matter of fact, I never had any druthers to write a book until, um, um, I'll just share the story that kind of birthed it all.
00:27:40
Speaker
I was, um, probably about 20 years into my career The apathy was so strong that um i I was not a happy person. And it was more than just in in my work life. I was on the doorstep of the divorce that ultimately happened. My health was nowhere near where it needed to be. I was not in good health.
00:27:59
Speaker
And I just wasn't a very fun person to be around. I wasn't, you know, my work was my identity and my, and if I'm telling you that I hate going to these environments that I'm um leading, well, what does that say about my identity? You're not going to be, um you're not going to be your best you, certainly not a very happy person.
00:28:18
Speaker
So my apathy reaps such a point that I i just, um I had to make a decision. i was leading about 3,000, 3,500 people at the time. And I don't want to come across naive to your audience, Eric. I i was a ah very lucky guy that I was fortunate enough to say enough is enough. I need to step away from this hamster wheel.
00:28:37
Speaker
I wasn't in a place where I could just retire. I wasn't independently wealthy. um But I knew I had ah a couple bucks in the bank that would allow me to step away to really evaluate this thing called work.
00:28:47
Speaker
Am I getting the most out of it? Am I giving the most that I can give? And where where did those what did those desires for fulfillment and passion and the optimism and the eagerness, where did all those things go?
00:28:59
Speaker
um I had just reached a point where it was it was just too much. So I stepped away. And be careful what you wish for, and because I told myself when I stepped away that I would only go back into a similar environment, this corporate America fray, if I sensed there was an opportunity for two things.
00:29:17
Speaker
first was it had to be an environment that was going to allow me to be the leader. I never was. The leader I always wanted to be. But i didn't know what that meant yet. I just knew i had this recipe for delivering great results. um But I never asked the question at what cost.
00:29:31
Speaker
um I alienated people. i was that bang my fist on the desk guy. Um, and that was because that's how I was raised in the corporate world. It's what I observed. So I emulated that.
00:29:41
Speaker
So that was condition one. The second condition was I was hoping to find an organization that wasn't broken, but one that was right for transformation. One that recognizes that recognized we can be better than we are.
00:29:53
Speaker
We've got some good folks on the team. We were delivering okay results. We're not toxic, but we could be better. like got a phone call asking if I would be interested in having some conversations about leading about 15,000 people in a $7 billion dollars organization.
00:30:09
Speaker
um And both of those boxes seemed to be ready to be checked. And I was about 60 days into the role and my premonition or my hunch was right. There was lots of really bright people, really committed, very talented people, but there was no team.
00:30:26
Speaker
There were pockets high-functioning areas. You know, when you leave, when there's that many people involved, there's obviously multiple kind of verticals inside this organization. And if one leader was succeeding with his or her, you know, 500 to 1,000 people, and on the other side of the of the team, there was another leader who was struggling with their 500 or 1,000-member team, they didn't recognize that we weren't winning collectively.
00:30:49
Speaker
they They just viewed their silos as kind of the be-all, end-all. Yeah. In about 60 days into the role, I brought the the top 40 or 50 leaders of that organization together. And I viewed that as my chance to kind of share with them um the expectations they should have of me as their leader, which was the antithesis for the exact opposite of how I would have approached it the first 20 years, which would have been, look at my shiny and MBA, my start shirt, my expansive vocabulary, all the things that I thought made you a good leader.
00:31:21
Speaker
That would have been my approach. Um, and that evening, the night before I was scheduled to meet with those 40 or 50 leaders, I was in my hotel room and, um, I didn't, I was terrified, dude. I didn't know what I was going to say. I just knew that if I wanted the same results, do the same thing. And you know where that's going to lead you this, this place of apathy or,
00:31:42
Speaker
maybe you drop a little bit of this ego, be a little more vulnerable and tell this team the truth. And the truth was I needed them for me to be successful. It was a domain that I didn't have a ton of experience in.
00:31:54
Speaker
In many cases, the team that reported directly to me, and they had forgotten more about this business than I even knew. So I needed them. um So I thought, well, why why wouldn't you just take that approach and see where it takes you.
00:32:09
Speaker
And um I knew I had to create some slides because as you know, there's no good corporate America meeting without some PowerPoint slides. So I was i was in i was in bed that evening around midnight after a late dinner with the team. And I just started putting some slides together and I came up with a handful of slides, but the only one slide that mattered was the first one. And it had 10 sentences on it.
00:32:30
Speaker
And each of those sentences started with and still do begin with the word we. Um, but how did I get there? So I just started to play all these negative scenarios of the previous 20 years of how bosses left me feeling less than valued or less than witnessed behavior that was not becoming of the leader that I wanted to be. You know, um, you, you, you were so kind to share an example that I put in the book about, I had a boss who literally told me when his boss is out of the office, when the boss is away, I do play and then proceeded to leave for two, three hour lunch. And I just watched this behavior. So like,
00:33:06
Speaker
Well, that's not, that doesn't seem right, but that's what um what my boss is doing. So I went through all these scenarios and that might sound like a trivial one, but the same boss, by the way, asked me to change numbers on an Excel document to match numbers that he had already presented to his boss at one point. So this is who we're talking about.
00:33:23
Speaker
um But then I was fortunate enough and at least somewhat wise enough to flip that coin over and say, all right, dude, so what about the handful of leaders or less than handful, probably two that really, really inspired you?
00:33:36
Speaker
they they had They lit a fire in you or maybe they showed um interest in you and your growth more so than anybody else in in one case, more than I had shown in myself. And out of those, um kind of playing those memories that evening,
00:33:54
Speaker
The negative ones, I said, well, we're not going to do that. So the example the spreadsheet led to we, number one, we do the right thing always. And um I never leave out that one word, second sentence always.
00:34:05
Speaker
and And as I walked through the negative scenarios, i my intention was to tell the team the next morning, this is who we are. And I couldn't, every time I said or prepared the the words I was going to say the next day, the word we kept coming out. And these 10 sentences have the word we in them.
00:34:22
Speaker
And it occurred to me, because we've all seen it, new guy comes in, new gal comes in, new executive or whatever the title is. And typically it is about what I'm here to do and not about what we can do together. If we, if we really, really connect on, on a lot of levels.
00:34:37
Speaker
Um, so I shared the 10 wheeze the next morning. I wasn't super creative. I'm still not, but these 10 sentences each began with the word we. So had the 10 wheeze shared them with the team the next day. And I won't bore you with the details that, that happened thereafter, but suffice to say,
00:34:53
Speaker
nearly every single KPI reached not just a new high, but an all time high. um And that's profound, but what really had an impact on me and I think ultimately comp compelled me to write the book is I watched bosses transform into leaders.
00:35:08
Speaker
They really gave a shit about the people to their left and right. They actually cared about others' growth, not just their own. They cared about more than just the metrics. um And it it and it it lit a fire in me um that i've it it was the first time in my life I felt as if I had a bigger calling than what I was doing.
Transformative 'We' Principles
00:35:28
Speaker
Um, so the book is to you know, long winded answer. The book is, um it it, it is the introduction of the 10 ways via stories, um, via illustrations of, of what happens sometimes when we deviate and don't hold ourselves accountable to a specific set of standards.
00:35:44
Speaker
Um, and it's also, there's some victories in there about what happens when you do. Um, and I think one parenthetical I would share, man, I think it's kind of cool is, um When I left that organization, that 15,000 person organization, I left for an even bigger role, um which had me lead operations for a $50 billion dollars organization is about 14, 15,000 employees as well.
00:36:08
Speaker
And it was the most toxic environment I'd ever seen. Um, and I maintained contact with my previous team. We would chat every now and then. And, and one evening I was on the phone with a guy named Drex who was on the team.
00:36:22
Speaker
And he said, yeah, Brian and I were talking recently we wonder when your book's coming out. I was like, book, I'm not, I'm not writing a book. What are he' talking about? And they almost challenged me in a way that I was, well, they did. They challenged me in a way that I wasn't expecting. It's like, what you're about this, aren't you? You're the guy that's on stage talking about the value of we and these 10 principles and how they've changed your life.
00:36:41
Speaker
And they've changed this company forever. And they've changed the people inside of it. You're kind of a hypocrite if you don't take it farther. um okay, I'm not one to back down from a challenge. So I decided to write the book. And then that same team, a member of that same team, her name is Julia, um was the one who helped me name the book.
00:36:58
Speaker
um She said, that's what you did with us. when I shared a few options with her, she said, it's begin with we. It's got to be begin with we. But that's the goal, man. And it's all in an effort to get people to understand at any level of leadership, executive, first time leader of other people, there is a better way. You don't have to subscribe to that that command and control, bang the fist on the desk.
00:37:20
Speaker
um You know, for someone to win, someone else must lose paradigm. It doesn't have to be that way, which is all too common. We've all seen it and most of us live it every day. If I can put begin with we or the 10 we's in opposition to something and I realize I'm simplifying what should be very nuanced but just to you know get to some illustration if I can put this in opposition to something else it would be like you said command and control or it would be you having stood up on that stage and
00:37:55
Speaker
And not saying, you know, we do the right thing or um we, whatever else it is. Instead, you would have said, I want, or you will, or some or you would have just put up some numbers and said, whatever you got to you do these, you do it to hit these numbers. Something of that nature would be in opposition to what you advocate.
00:38:19
Speaker
That's right. That's right. And I'll and i'll tell you, man, um ah i it was important to me, if nothing else that morning, for the team to know these are the behaviors you should expect from me.
00:38:32
Speaker
I led with that. And opposition would have been, hey, here's these 10 principles. I'm going to hold you accountable to these. Good luck. let's talk Let's talk at your next review. um But I will share with you saying them and saying, here's how I want you to judge me in and how I want you to hold me accountable is like one-tenth of the battle.
00:38:54
Speaker
You got live it, dude. You got live it. um You know, some of the most dysfunctional organizations in the world have the sexiest values on the wall and they don't mean anything and they don't mean anything.
00:39:08
Speaker
And it was that evening for the first time that I ever also contemplated this notion that Most organizations in me as a leader, my, my focus, anytime someone new would join the team, it's always on the KPIs. It's always on the, what, here's what we expect from you. and Here's the, you know here's how we'll kind of gauge your success or not.
00:39:29
Speaker
i I was never part of an organization and this is the gap I'm trying to fill now that indexes just as heavily on how, how we behave and um they enable the vo those sexy values on the wall, they enable them. So these 10 we's, these principles, they're behavioral, they're observable behaviors.
00:39:47
Speaker
um So we can train all we want on on the what, but if we're not just as emphatic on the how, ah we leave people to guess and we leave we leave our expectations unspoken.
00:40:03
Speaker
And I think all of this boils down to in my mind, the mark of the best leaders I've ever been around is that they're absolutely painfully crystal clear on their expectations.
00:40:15
Speaker
Usually it ends on the, the what, but those that have really built themselves a leadership legacy and are having an impact that is outsized anything they probably could have even hoped for. It's those that also spend just as much time time on, on how we do what we do, hold themselves accountable to the same standards.
00:40:33
Speaker
And when they air, they're the first ones to say, man, I blew it. I blew it. And be comfortable when one of the, a member of the team says, Kyle, we We embrace challenge, right? We number nine, we embrace challenge.
00:40:46
Speaker
And, you know, I'm bringing you a challenge and you're shutting me down. There has to be that level of comfort and safety for someone to say that. And that all comes back to that ego component I talked about earlier. If that thing is not set aside or at least recognized almost daily, um ah you'll never gain the trust that you were hoping to gain. And then the outcomes, they might come, but they'll be fleeting. And at what cost is the question to ask.
00:41:10
Speaker
You talked about, you know, having the sexiest values up on the wall like a poster or something of that nature. And before we started recording, I mentioned that it's really easy to read a book like this and sort of nod your head and then point at my boss or past companies or whatever and more or less say,
00:41:35
Speaker
say, yeah, this is all right. And those people are bad and not to look so much at myself and, you know look in the mirror. And so I'm imagining that there are a lot of people who might read this book or they might hear you speak.
00:41:53
Speaker
But then they risk turning this into the values poster on the wall. And obviously you don't want that. But one thing that contributes to that, and it doesn't matter whether it's your book, Kyle, or any number of other things, the best of intentions can be there.
00:42:10
Speaker
but maybe i misunderstand what you mean, or i misunderstand what is required of me. And to not just take it down to responsibility, i suppose I'm going to make it my my question specific to the we's.
00:42:29
Speaker
Is there a we that is commonly misunderstood? i do want to answer that, but i if I may, i want to respond to something else you just said, Eric. Um,
00:42:40
Speaker
I don't necessarily think, I know this, i i don't i don't agree, and I think we're friends now, but I don't agree with the premise of the question. Because in my experience, very rarely is it a is it is it is it a is it a lack of understanding or ah of a lack of communication. Communication perhaps, but not a lack of understanding. It's almost always
00:43:10
Speaker
the fact that it requires more effort. Dude, it's not, is if you want if you want to if you want to lead in a way that has a lasting impact, um and you and you genuinely connect, I'm not saying you gotta be buddies and go have beers with with the team. I'm just saying genuinely connect in what motivates and inspires them.
00:43:29
Speaker
It does require more effort. It takes more time. And you find yourself working longer hours. You find yourself um kind of elbow deep in things that might feel uncomfortable because they're a little bit more human than maybe you have led in ways that you have led in the past.
00:43:47
Speaker
Um, all, all this to say, use the word simple earlier, we chatted about this a bit ago, every single word, every concept, all of the principles, it's incredibly simple, embarrassingly. So, um, but it's not easy.
00:44:03
Speaker
And those two words might get grouped together often, but simple and easy, man, are not the same thing. The example I gave you earlier, and I'll give it again, is like, you want to lose weight? It's such a simple calculation. It's a simple equation.
00:44:16
Speaker
Take in fewer calories, burn more calories, but it ain't easy. We know what to do. So I think the premise, the reason I disagree with the premise is I think when people read works um like my book or attend a seminar or whatever it is that their medium for trying to, to, to learn and and get better at whatever the topic is, it's usually less about, I didn't understand that and more about it's harder. It takes more time.
00:44:42
Speaker
It's not fun. Sometimes ah it's a drag. Yeah. Now, with all that said, I will answer the question directly because there are a couple of principles that I think are either misinterpreted or taken advantage of.
00:44:56
Speaker
And the first is we challenge each other. It's we number eight. It's my favorite of all the principles. um um I should add also, there is one word. There is a one word second sentence for that one as well. It's diplomatically.
00:45:10
Speaker
And if you read the book, you know this, there are, there is a rule. Your challenges must be grounded in either data or experience, not your opinion. And where this gets kind of twisted and people try to make it their own is the challenge is grounded in their opinion.
00:45:25
Speaker
And there's a crass expression that comes after, you know, we all have opinions. So ah I think people can have at times taken advantage of that, forgotten about that little rule, the data or experience thing,
00:45:37
Speaker
And then the other one is we number seven, we measure ourselves by outcomes, not activity. And the spirit behind that is why are we sitting in a 60 minute meeting that adds note? Why are there 27 people in this meeting um that is not adding value for 25 of them?
00:45:52
Speaker
um We didn't take notes. We didn't memorialize the decisions made. um the The invitation wasn't clear. um There was a study by Korn Ferry, it's been a year or two now, um that said 60-something percent, I'll get the number wrong, but 60-something percent of respondents said they would still attend a meeting if it showed up on their calendar, even if they knew it added no value to their work.
00:46:15
Speaker
So when I talk about outcomes, right, you know, I'm not saying activity is unimportant. I'm just saying if it's not aligned to an outcome that we've agreed to deliver, it should be scrutinized. And i'll see I'll hear people kind of twist that and say, well, activity is important because that's where the best ideas come and that's where innovation comes and we need our people to stay busy so they stay engaged.
00:46:34
Speaker
And I just look at it slightly differently. I think when we set expectations for members of the team and the, you know, the things that we will use to evaluate their their excellence, um,
00:46:45
Speaker
Those expectations have been established. If you do it in five minutes or 50 hours, you've done what I've asked you to do. And I've done what, what hopefully what you've asked me to do to enable you to deliver those results.
00:46:56
Speaker
Um, so I think that gets a little bit conflated at times. Um, and maybe activity gets villainized or vilified rather in my, my favorite example is, dude, I'm really happy that my Uber driver puts gas in the car before they pick me up.
00:47:10
Speaker
I didn't pay for that though. I'm paying for the outcome to get me from A to B. So if I order that Uber and they run and get gas before they come and get me, I'm not happy about that. That's activity that has to happen to deliver the outcome. It's a worthwhile activity, but I'm not paying for that. I think the real world at the end of the day pays for outcomes.
00:47:28
Speaker
Is there ah we that is artist for you as in you, i mean, you you have been in this for a long time, but if it's not today, then in the past, it was hardest for you to live up to this we? Yeah.
00:47:46
Speaker
All 10, brother, all 10.
Personal Anecdotes on 'We' Principles
00:47:49
Speaker
And there was no, there's no finish line. I still struggle with it. But there's a beautiful thing that i never intended, and and I hope this resonates.
00:47:58
Speaker
So when i when I identified the 10 principles, I didn't create them. they're not you know There's nothing groundbreaking. But when i identified them as as our set of behavioral standards, and when I left the office or the workplace, whether remote or and a real brick and mortar scenario, um those 10 principles stayed there. They didn't come home with me.
00:48:19
Speaker
And I found myself and it was a wake up call that, um, and there's a really silly story behind it, but I'll share. So as I mentioned, the first is we do the right thing always. Um, I had this moment where I realized I was being a hypocrite and, and Eric, you can call me any name you can imagine.
00:48:36
Speaker
The only one that's probably going to, yeah, the that's going to really offend me is hypocrite. I just wired that way. Um, I was at a grocery store, walked out to the gro out of the grocery store, take the bags, put it my truck, load my truck up. And I was that guy. I took the grocery cart to the spot next to me. I didn't take it back to the store. i didn't put it in a little cart corral. I just pulled it into the parking spot next to me.
00:48:58
Speaker
That's not right. So then I back up, I pull out of the parking lot and I look in my rear view mirror and I see that cart sliding across the parking lot. And like, it was an epiphany, man. I was like, you hypocrite. You're the guy standing on stage. We do the right thing always.
00:49:14
Speaker
But you, you just left that behind you. And I know it sounds like a really silly example, but it was in that moment that I realized these principles, when you the the it's when I realized the value of setting standards and expectations for yourself, never mind anybody else, and holding yourself accountable to those standards is a path to to a really fulfilled existence.
00:49:38
Speaker
In the workplace, I struggle with, we embrace challenge because historically, you know, my business card was enough that no one was going to challenge me. You know, you know this, I'm sure your audience does as well. The higher you ascend in any company, the funnier your jokes get.
00:49:53
Speaker
Like the more time people want to spend with you, right? It's not genuine. um And with that, you you start to find yourself surrounded by people that are telling you what they think you want to hear, not what you need to hear.
00:50:04
Speaker
So, um and when people were courageous enough to challenge me, I usually responded in a way that was less than accommodating. and So that one, that one was a struggle for me. It is by far, I would say now my, I'm the most, I'm, I'm probably most proud of how I live that one now, because I've learned to see the value in challenge.
00:50:24
Speaker
And on the other side of challenge, I don't think anything in life, very few things in life are ever the result of not overcoming one or more challenges, including our our strongest relationships. You know any feat that we ever accomplished, learning a new skill, whatever it is, we must overcome something. And to not recognize and embrace those is, is just stumping your own growth.
00:50:44
Speaker
I struggle with that one for a long, long time. And I'm most proud of that one. But I think, yeah. We do the right thing is one that I really find myself going back to. Like if I'm ready to get my ass out of the gym, but I've left a weight on the bar, it's like, you can't do that, dude. That's that's being a hypocrite. Put it back.
00:51:01
Speaker
So I find myself kind of resonating or being pulled to any one of them at any given time. And I'm the first to admit, I am not perfect at it by any stretch. I know what you mean. Some of what you're talking about reminds me of if you don't do it right, you get to do it again.
00:51:18
Speaker
And the example that i'll I use frequently is if I'm walking out of a room and i i swipe my hand and I miss the light switch, I'm intending to turn it off, or maybe I'm walking into a room and I'm intending to turn it on.
00:51:34
Speaker
I know if I'm walking out of her room and I intended to turn the light off, I didn't get it. You know, maybe there are those instances, Kyle, where you you hit it and it only goes halfway over Let's ignore that, right? Yeah.
00:51:45
Speaker
Well, You know, nowadays, LEDs or whatever, maybe electricity is a lot cheaper than it was when I was a kid. But the thing is that I have a choice now. I'm five, 10 feet away. I could just turn around and turn the light off or I can just keep walking because it's an inconvenience. No one would know.
00:52:05
Speaker
Right. And if they do know, well, then they got to deal with that. You know, Kyle, you have a pet peeve about the lights being left on. You got to deal with yourself. You know, I'm not hurting anybody or whatever it is. And, you know, so we can, we can apply this in a lot of cases and you could say, well, the cart rolling away or the weight, you know, I don't have to do that again, but It's also like a tragedy of the commons where if we all just leave our carts out, then individually we benefit, but in the long run, everyone suffers and, you know, ah literally littering or pollution or whatever it is.
00:52:47
Speaker
And so, and there's a phrase that I forget where it comes from, but It is easy choices, hard life, hard choices, easy life. I don't. And I think of that a lot and I fall short all the time.
00:53:05
Speaker
But I think about that more and more as I age because there are a lot of things where I made the easy choice when I was younger. And not that I'm making up for it necessarily, but I think I could have gotten a lot more out of life had I made the hard choice.
00:53:23
Speaker
I use a similar, but slightly different take on it is, uh, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. You know, it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. And, um, but you also, man, you touch on something that I think is so kind of like fundamental of this conversation and the work that I do. And I think probably the work that you do as well is, yeah, you left that light on and somebody else has to deal with it.
00:53:45
Speaker
Whatever the scenario is, you're not doing the thing that you're supposed to do has an impact on someone else.
00:53:54
Speaker
Um, isn't that really just being a good human, like not being so self-absorbed that you recognize my favorite example of this today drives me crazy is people on speakerphone in public places.
00:54:10
Speaker
You know, it sounds like a really silly thing and maybe it's my age showing or or whatever, but why should I be inconvenienced because of your lack of attention to someone else's space?
00:54:21
Speaker
or Or, you know, likewise, why should someone have to come back behind you and turn that light off? Why should someone have to come behind me and grab this cart because of my mean, i'm basically being inconsiderate at that point. And I feel, feel whether it's in leadership, whether it's in our relationships, whether it's in any, any aspect of our life at the end of the day, we're not alone.
00:54:42
Speaker
And there are people around us that are counting us to do the right thing. When we get in the workplace, it's exacerbated by leaders feeling as if, or bosses rather, they're feeling as if they don't have to subscribe to those same sets of standards. And then we get this us, they mentality. Now we have this leadership gap and trust is like an afterthought at that point because there's, it's like, it's almost like the Lord of the flies in some environments.
00:55:06
Speaker
Um, And if they would just take a moment and and pause and talk ah and think about the impact that they're having as a human, not as a boss on the downstream impact of their lack of attention or care or behaving like an asshole and the impact it's having on those around them.
00:55:24
Speaker
Um, You know, I think that self-reflection is, is pretty rare. It's pretty rare. i agree with you. And sadly we are, at least for me, just getting into the meat of things to explore, you know, because I would opine on culture change and even might we examine some of the experiences that you've been through and say,
00:55:49
Speaker
Did you help to develop a culture in this one organization and then developing a culture or improving a culture in the next organization was maybe more difficult.
Upcoming Book: 'Win With We'
00:56:03
Speaker
and So I won't go too far into that at the moment, unless you tell me that the next book is related to that, because I know I'm going to have to get you out of here for another meeting. So I would love to hear too about the next book. Yeah. Don't worry about it. We can have a future conversation. I would love that, Eric. I can't, I looked, I just looked over at the clock here and I cannot believe we've, or I've been rambling this long.
00:56:28
Speaker
Um, you're very kind to touch on the second book. And, and, and I would say it like this. If the first book begin with, we was the introduction of the 10 we's and the principles,
00:56:38
Speaker
and some stories of of why they matter and the transformative power that they have. The next book, which is at this moment, loosely titled win with we is it's a playbook and it's answering a question that I get more often than not. I think I might've touched on this earlier. It's that, you know, I'll get off stage or I'll finish an engagement with a ah client. And, um, there's so much energy and enthusiasm around embracing these principles and injecting, injecting them into the culture the DNA of our culture.
00:57:10
Speaker
Um, but they don't know how they don't know. They don't know, you know, they know they should talk the talk, but they really aren't sure on how to walk the walk, like how to, how to conduct, um, a one-on-one in a way that leaves everyone feeling whole at the end of the conversation. That's not being soft, by the way. I'm saying if, if someone is underperforming,
00:57:33
Speaker
Those one-on-ones, they should leave with a bit of concern. um I'm not, I don't think anyone would mistake me living this principle when and leading with these principles for softness. and But there is a way to do it that recognizes someone's humanity and actually lifts them up to a place where they recognize the impact that they could have if they turn those results around, not just turn them around or else.
00:57:53
Speaker
um So when with we is at this moment, um well, not at this moment because the proposal is done, is is really the how to from hiring to onboarding to to steady state kind of in game. if you will. There's a whole win sports metaphor because I think sports are so tightly connected and in more ways than most of us recognize the value of of leadership, overcoming losses, um overcoming adversity throughout the season. I think a lot of that is there are parallels inside the workplace.
00:58:24
Speaker
But win with we will be the whole continuum from the moment that we had that first interview to the moment that you were um you've reached a point where you're either ready to to lead the organization on your own or we have to ask you to go do something else. There's, there is a we oriented way to do this, um, that recognizes people's value, their humanity and, and, and lifts them up, um, and inspires them to do more than just come to work and collect a paycheck. Now, um, I, I must just kind of end with this caveat though.
00:58:52
Speaker
for folks that are fine, that find themselves in that space where I am just going to work for a paycheck. I got nothing but love for you. That's okay. <unk> that's There's nothing wrong with that at all. Um, but if you choose, you so use those words earlier, you make a choice. Um, the impact that you can have with that you find is will dwarf anything else that you might've ever expected or even knew existed. Um, should you make that choice? Yeah.
00:59:18
Speaker
ah So anyway, that's that's the path for the second book. it's We're so early on, it probably won't be out for another 18, 24 months. um But that's that's where a lot of focus is here on on my team.
00:59:29
Speaker
Where should I go if I want to, whether it's connect with you, follow you, learn more about begin with we or win with we? Oh, you're very kind to ask, man. I, um, and I say you're kind to ask because I don't, I don't, I'm on essentially every social media platform with the same handle at Kyle McDowell Inc. My website is kylemcdowellinc.com. My book, as you've been so kind to mention a number of times, begin with we 10 principles for building and sustaining a culture of excellence.
00:59:59
Speaker
It's available wherever books are sold. Um, and, and I say, it's kind of you to offer it because I use those venues, those mediums as genuine communication, uh, conduits. I don't, I don't, I don't care about the vanity metrics, you know, likes follows all that stuff.
01:00:15
Speaker
I use them and I hear from readers essentially daily now, um, After selling about 50,000 copies at this point. um And they're usually um they're usually folks that have not had the opportunity to talk to someone that would actually listen to them, provide unbiased feedback, kind of coach them in a way that they might find some value.
01:00:37
Speaker
And I always always caveat those conversations with their my opinions doesn't make me right or wrong. because I don't know the environment that you're in. But i I do appreciate you allowing me to share those handles because I love to hear from folks and it kind of fuels me to continue doing what I'm doing.
01:00:50
Speaker
Thank you. I appreciate that. And I will say that, you know, one thing that I like about some of the things that I've seen is like you have what I'm going to describe as quite a lot of YouTube videos. And I think I recall that most of them are fairly short.
01:01:06
Speaker
Short, long doesn't really matter to me. And like, personally, I like seeing someone talking me through whatever it is, even if it's a 30 second thing and you're just making a point and then i move on. So, you know, whether somebody, they like an email newsletter or whatever it is, I like that you have quite a ah lot of ah content out there. Oh, thanks, man.
01:01:31
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you. that's the That's the day, that's the age we're in, right? Information's free. It's ah like we talked about earlier, taking making the choice to actually do something with that information is where I think you and I are really investing a lot of our time because there's, you know, information is out there. It's simple, but like I said, executing the information, not always easy. So I like to help.
01:01:52
Speaker
Kyle, I appreciate you being here and thank you for, in addition to the recording time, giving me so much time before. i appreciate it. And I hope that as you go through, you know, getting a publisher and all that, that you sell six times, 10 times as many copies of the next book.
01:02:10
Speaker
Hell yeah, and that's the goal. Eric, man, you're doing really important work. um I have to share with you, when our time together showed up on the calendar for two hours, I was like, there's no way. that we're going to be on, um no way I'll be on this call for two hours.
01:02:22
Speaker
And I am grateful for the time spent, man. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. I really do appreciate it. Sincerely. Thank you very much, Kyle.