In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum sits down with Gini Dietrich, founder of Spin Sucks and creator of the PESO Model©—a strategic framework for aligning paid, earned, shared, and owned media to build reputation and deliver business results.

Gini shares lessons from her work advising brands, training communicators, and building a thriving media and education company. She explains how trust is built and broken in communications, what it takes to sustain content over time, and why PR needs a seat at the executive table. We also talk about the mindset behind showing up publicly and consistently, even when it’s hard or slow.

Gini’s insights are practical and refreshingly grounded. This episode is a valuable listen for anyone responsible for messaging, marketing, or media strategy.

Topics Explored:

 * What is the PESO Model—and how does it create business results?
 * Why communicators must learn to speak the language of the C-suite
 * The long-game of building thought leadership and trust
 * The Spin Sucks origin story and lessons from building community
 * Challenges and opportunities in earned media today
 * How to know what’s actually working in communications
 * Balancing transparency, authority, and discipline in public content

Links:

 * Gini Dietrich, Spin Sucks, and the PESO Model: https://spinsucks.com [https://spinsucks.com/]

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

43–Gini Dietrich: Building Trust and Growing with the PESO Model

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum speaks with Peter Kelly-Detwiler, an expert in global energy markets and sustainability. Peter discusses the dynamic interplay between technology, economics, and policy shaping the energy sector today and into the future.

Peter addresses critical issues like the complexities of integrating renewable energy sources, the role of AI and advanced software in optimizing grid efficiency, and the geopolitical forces impacting energy markets. He also shares insights into cutting-edge developments such as modular nuclear power, advanced geothermal technology, and innovative storage solutions.

Topics Explored:

 * The Evolution of Global Energy Markets
 * Sustainability and Energy: Defining Practical Solutions
 * The Role of Technological Innovation in Energy Transformation
 * AI and Advanced Software Applications in Energy Grid Management
 * Challenges and Opportunities in Renewable Energy Integration
 * Geopolitical Impacts on Energy Markets and Infrastructure
 * Emerging Technologies: Modular Nuclear, Geothermal, and Advanced Batteries
 * Strategies for Future Energy Resilience and Adaptability

Links:

 * Visit Peter’s website: http://peterkellydetwiler.com [http://peterkellydetwiler.com/]
 * Connect with Peter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterkellydetwiler/
 * Peter’s talk on forecasting challenges in energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dveBB-xXs0
 * IPCC reports on climate and energy: https://www.ipcc.ch/reports/

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

42–Peter Kelly-Detwiler: The Future of Energy and Sustainability

In this solo episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum explores the decline of album sales in light of Rick Beato’s recent video on the best-selling albums of the 21st century. Rather than attributing the change solely to streaming or market fragmentation, Eric frames the issue through the Pace Layers model—offering a more nuanced explanation for why physical albums have faded and why that doesn’t mean music is in decline.

He walks through the origins of the album format, how it became embedded in our culture, and why innovations like streaming reshape not just delivery methods but how we define and experience music itself. This reflection goes beyond nostalgia to reveal what truly happens when old standards fade and new systems emerge.

Topics Explored:

 * Why we’ll never again see albums sell like Adele’s 25 or Linkin Park’s Meteora
 * The problem with comparing physical album sales to digital streams
 * What Rick Beato gets right—and misses—about the music industry’s evolution
 * The Pace Layers model and how it explains slow vs. fast change in culture
 * How streaming disrupted not just formats, but the cultural foundations of music
 * Why losing a familiar standard doesn’t always mean losing something meaningful

Links:

 * Rick Beato’s video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lel_J1-zxmU
 * For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

39–Rick Beato, Pace Layers, and the Evolution of Music

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum is joined by Ian Mai, an ADHD and impulse-control coach dedicated to helping people understand and transform their impulsive behaviors into strengths. Ian shares his deeply personal journey—from confronting internet addiction and infidelity to achieving meaningful and sustainable recovery through ADHD awareness and inner strength training.

Ian outlines the psychological foundations of impulsive behavior, describing how emotional disregulation, dopamine-seeking, and conditioned responses play crucial roles. He provides practical strategies for building emotional resilience and impulse control, emphasizing mindfulness, intentional discomfort, and honest self-reflection.

This conversation goes beyond ADHD to explore how impulsive behaviors affect relationships, career success, and self-worth. Ian’s passion and clarity around these topics offer valuable guidance for anyone facing similar challenges or looking to understand those who do.

Topics Explored:

 * Ian’s Personal Journey: From addiction and impulsivity to awareness and coaching
 * Understanding ADHD and Impulsive Behavior: Emotional regulation, dopamine, and conditioned responses
 * Practical Strategies for Managing ADHD and Impulse Control
 * Relationship Dynamics: How impulsivity impacts marriage and family life
 * Transforming Shame into Inner Strength
 * Cultivating Mindfulness and Intentional Discomfort to Build Resilience
 * The Importance of Being Comfortable with Misunderstanding and Authentic Self-Expression

Links:

 * Ian’s Company: https://www.ianmai.co [https://www.ianmai.co/]
 * Connect with Ian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-mai-inner-strength/

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

40–Ian Mai: Mastering ADHD and Impulse Control through Inner Strength

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum talks with Ryan Scott, Head of Product at DNA Behavior, a company focused on delivering precise behavioral analytics using AI and machine learning. Ryan outlines his career growth from finance intern to AI innovator, highlighting how behavioral insights can dramatically improve business outcomes.

Ryan discusses the innovative ways DNA Behavior utilizes AI—from predicting communication styles and job titles based on minimal data, to automating client interactions through advanced chatbots. We delve into practical applications of AI for businesses of all sizes, the challenges of integrating AI into existing workflows, and how AI is reshaping organizational structures and personal roles.

This episode offers invaluable perspectives on the power and potential of AI-driven insights to enhance customer relations, streamline operations, and future-proof businesses.

Topics Explored:

 * Ryan’s Path: From finance student to Head of Product at DNA Behavior
 * AI and Behavioral Analytics: How DNA Behavior is leveraging big data
 * Practical AI Applications: Enhancing client relationships and communication strategies
 * Automation and Efficiency: Tools and tactics for integrating AI into business processes
 * Predictive Modeling and Machine Learning: Advanced techniques for business insights
 * Challenges and Best Practices in AI Integration
 * The Future of Work: AI’s impact on organizational structures and personal roles

Links:

 * DNA Behavior: https://dnabehavior.com/start
 * Connect with Ryan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanwadescott/
 * Microsoft AI Training: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/training/courses/ai-900t00
 * Sanebox: https://www.sanebox.com [https://www.sanebox.com/]
 * n8n Workflow Automation: https://n8n.io [https://n8n.io/]
 * Wonderchat AI Management: https://wonderchat.io [https://wonderchat.io/]
 * Episode 31 with Hugh Massie: https://unfoldingthought.com/31-hugh-massie-reaching-1-billion-annually-with-behavioral-insights/

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

41–Ryan Scott: The Intersection of Behavior & AI

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum sits down with David Greer, entrepreneurial coach and author of "Wind In Your Sails: Vital Strategies That Accelerate Your Entrepreneurial Growth." David shares powerful lessons from his journey—from building and exiting a successful software company to confronting and overcoming alcoholism, and eventually shaping a fulfilling career coaching other entrepreneurs.

David explains the importance of strategic clarity, intentional quarterly planning, and the value of aligning personal strengths with professional goals. He emphasizes the critical balance of personal resilience and high performance, offering practical advice on how entrepreneurs can better manage their businesses, their teams, and themselves.

Topics Explored:

 * Navigating Addiction and Sobriety: David’s transformative personal journey
 * Strategic Planning and Execution: Using clear, actionable plans to drive growth
 * Entrepreneurial Challenges: Transitioning from startup phase to scalable organization
 * The Importance of Written Goals and Accountability
 * Balancing Self, Family, and Business for Sustainable Success
 * Coaching Entrepreneurs through Organizational and Personal Obstacles
 * How Personal Growth Impacts Professional Performance

Links:

 * Wind In Your Sails book by David Greer: https://www.amazon.com/Wind-Your-Sails-Strategies-Entrepreneurial-ebook/dp/B01E9NQI9Y
 * Connect with David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjgreer
 * David’s website: https://coachdjgreer.com [https://coachdjgreer.com/]
 * Rockefeller Habits and Scaling Up by Verne Harnish: https://scalingup.com [https://scalingup.com/]
 * StrengthsFinder Assessment: https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/home.aspx

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

38–David Greer: Building Entrepreneurial Clarity and Conquering Addiction

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum speaks with Shannon Watson, Executive Director of Majority in the Middle, an organization committed to fostering bipartisan collaboration and more effective governance. Shannon shares her journey and insights into why America has grown increasingly divided politically, and more importantly, what we can do about it.

Shannon highlights how the erosion of trust at local and national levels affects policy effectiveness, the critical role of relationship-building across ideological lines, and why finding common ground is more crucial than ever. We explore historical insights on political cooperation, recent data on bipartisan attitudes, and practical strategies individuals and communities can adopt to reverse political polarization.

Topics Explored:

 * Bridging the Political Divide: Shannon’s work with Majority in the Middle.
 * The Importance of Bipartisan Cooperation and Practical Governance.
 * How Trust and Social Capital Influence Community Success.
 * The Impact of Polarization on Governance and Everyday Life.
 * Actionable Steps Toward Effective Political and Community Engagement.
 * Lessons from History and Contemporary Examples of Successful Bipartisanship.
 * Understanding the Evolution of Group Dynamics and Polarization.

Links:

 * Majority in the Middle: https://majoritymiddle.org [https://majoritymiddle.org/]
 * Connect with Shannon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannonwatson/
 * The State of Bipartisanship Report (2024): https://www.majoritymiddle.org/stateofbipartisanship2024
 * Robert Putnam’s research on trust in diverse communities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam
 * Robert Wright’s argument on majority dynamics in "The Evolution of God": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_God
 * Thoreau’s skepticism of telegraph communication: https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2018/summer/what-would-thoreau-think-our-24-hour-news-cycle
 * Shannon’s TEDx talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkGtCWCADXg

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

37–Shannon Watson: Getting Beyond Politics

Eric Pratum sits down with Ryan Hogan, founder of Talent Harbor and the creative mind behind ventures like Run For Your Lives and Hunt a Killer. Ryan shares insights from his unique journey—from entrepreneurial experiments as a child, through notable successes and tough lessons, to his current mission of reshaping the recruiting industry.

Ryan discusses the flawed standard recruiting model, his innovative "Recruiting as a Service" approach, and the critical importance of hiring for cultural alignment rather than just skills. He opens up about lessons learned from his entrepreneurial and military careers, emphasizing resilience, the power of micro-actions, and the necessity of embracing failure as a learning tool.

Topics Explored:

 1. From Creepy Crawlers to Talent Harbor: Ryan’s entrepreneurial journey
 2. Disrupting Traditional Recruiting: What's broken in the standard recruiting model?
 3. Recruiting as a Service: Aligning incentives, eliminating success fees, and reducing friction
 4. Lessons from the Military: Discipline, structure, and why some rules exist
 5. Hiring for Cultural Fit: The overlooked key to long-term organizational success
 6. Failure as a Teacher: Why Ryan embraces mistakes and what they've taught him
 7. Future-Proofing Careers: The role of AI, automation, and human authenticity in the workplace

Links:

 * Talent Harbor: https://talentharbor.com [https://talentharbor.com/]
 * Connect with Ryan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanehogan/
 * Ryan’s Podcast, Confessions of an EOS Implementer: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/confessions-of-an-implementer/id1740510216
 * The New Common Denominator of Success by Albert E.N. Gray: https://amzn.to/4kxhY9G
 * The Go-Giver: https://amzn.to/3YZeYL1

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

36–Ryan Hogan: The Recruiting Industry is Broken

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, host Eric Pratum sits down with Jessica Rhodes, founder and CEO of Interview Connections. Jessica discusses her journey from booking her dad's podcast interviews to establishing an agency that has facilitated tens of thousands of guest appearances.

She explains the nuances of becoming a successful podcast guest, addressing common pitfalls, misconceptions, and the strategies behind making every podcast appearance a meaningful part of your broader marketing and networking efforts. Jessica also explores how podcast guesting can yield impressive returns, even from shows with smaller audiences, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, preparation, and strategic repurposing of content.

Topics Explored:

 1. Jessica's Journey: From VA to Podcast Guesting Expert
 2. What Makes a Great Podcast Guest?
 3. Leveraging Podcast Appearances for Marketing & SEO
 4. Misconceptions About Podcast Audience Sizes
 5. How to Strategically Repurpose Podcast Content
 6. Measuring ROI from Podcast Guesting
 7. Authenticity & Emotional Resonance in Interviews
 8. Future Trends in Podcasting and Guesting

Links:

 * Connect with Jessica on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-rhodes-9a291020/
 * Jessica’s company, Interview Connections: http://interviewconnections.com [http://interviewconnections.com/]
 * Jessica on Trauma Rewired: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/trauma-rewired/id1537602643?i=1000615695331
 * Jessica on Jason Shupp’s From There to Here: https://missionmatters.com/jessica-rhodes-a-pioneer-in-podcasting/
 * Jessica’s podcast on 10Xing your podcast results: https://interviewconnections.com/repurpose-pod

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]
Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

35–Jessica Rhodes: Master the Podcast Guesting Game

Eric Pratum sits down with Dustin Ryen—entrepreneur, marketer, and yes, professional coconut shucker. Dustin shares his journey, from early entrepreneurial lessons learned while selling sandpaper to becoming known as "The Coconut Guy."

Dustin reveals how personal struggles and early life experiences shaped his entrepreneurial spirit, his willingness to embrace change and risk, and why authenticity has been central to his lasting success. He discusses the importance of emotional resonance in business, insights gained from difficult experiences—including being fired by Eric—and why finding joy in your work matters so much.

This conversation explores themes like taking control of your career, the evolving landscape of AI-driven change in business, and why personal connections remain irreplaceable. It’s an episode rich with stories, insights, and practical advice for anyone navigating their career and life.

Topics Explored:

 1. From Sandpaper to Coconuts: Lessons learned from Dustin's unconventional career path.
 2. Entrepreneurship and Risk: How Dustin’s early life shaped his attitude toward risk and opportunity.
 3. Being Fired (by the Host!): Reflections on turning challenging career moments into valuable life lessons.
 4. Emotional Resonance in Business: Why creating authentic connections matters more than ever.
 5. Adapting to AI and Automation: Preparing yourself for the evolving career landscape and embracing personal responsibility.
 6. Joy and Authenticity in Work: Why true passion and a sense of authenticity can define entrepreneurial success.

Links:

 * Connect with Dustin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustinryen/
 * Check out Dustin on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realcoconutguy/
 * Rob Croll on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rcroll/
 * How I Built This with Guy Raz: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297
 * James Read’s LinkedIn post about ChatGPT blessing his study: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jameseread_has-ai-told-you-to-be-blessed-yet-recently-activity-7327866330798325760-RJCM [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jameseread_has-ai-told-you-to-be-blessed-yet-recently-activity-7327866330798325760-RJCM?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAACEC68BafzDVZ4TzUssWtchfx7tdwwkg6E]

34–Dustin Ryen: The Empire of the Coconut Shucker

The Unfolding Thought Podcast asks a provocative question: Why do we—and the groups we form—think and act the way we do? Although we may feel we understand ourselves and others, much of what drives our thoughts, choices, and behaviors remains hidden or overlooked. Through candid discussions and multi-disciplinary explorations, we reveal those unseen forces—biases, contexts, and patterns—and show how they influence individual and collective dynamics.

If you’re a leader or an intellectually curious mind looking for deep, high-value conversations, join us. We’ll challenge common assumptions, illuminate new perspectives, and spark meaningful change—helping you navigate relationships with greater clarity, innovate with confidence, and connect more authentically with those around you.

Eric Pratum

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