In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum sits down with David Greer, entrepreneurial coach and author of "Wind In Your Sails: Vital Strategies That Accelerate Your Entrepreneurial Growth." David shares powerful lessons from his journey—from building and exiting a successful software company to confronting and overcoming alcoholism, and eventually shaping a fulfilling career coaching other entrepreneurs.

David explains the importance of strategic clarity, intentional quarterly planning, and the value of aligning personal strengths with professional goals. He emphasizes the critical balance of personal resilience and high performance, offering practical advice on how entrepreneurs can better manage their businesses, their teams, and themselves.

Topics Explored:

 * Navigating Addiction and Sobriety: David’s transformative personal journey
 * Strategic Planning and Execution: Using clear, actionable plans to drive growth
 * Entrepreneurial Challenges: Transitioning from startup phase to scalable organization
 * The Importance of Written Goals and Accountability
 * Balancing Self, Family, and Business for Sustainable Success
 * Coaching Entrepreneurs through Organizational and Personal Obstacles
 * How Personal Growth Impacts Professional Performance

Links:

 * Wind In Your Sails book by David Greer: https://www.amazon.com/Wind-Your-Sails-Strategies-Entrepreneurial-ebook/dp/B01E9NQI9Y
 * Connect with David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjgreer
 * David’s website: https://coachdjgreer.com [https://coachdjgreer.com/]
 * Rockefeller Habits and Scaling Up by Verne Harnish: https://scalingup.com [https://scalingup.com/]
 * StrengthsFinder Assessment: https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/home.aspx

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

38–David Greer: Building Entrepreneurial Clarity and Conquering Addiction

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum speaks with Shannon Watson, Executive Director of Majority in the Middle, an organization committed to fostering bipartisan collaboration and more effective governance. Shannon shares her journey and insights into why America has grown increasingly divided politically, and more importantly, what we can do about it.

Shannon highlights how the erosion of trust at local and national levels affects policy effectiveness, the critical role of relationship-building across ideological lines, and why finding common ground is more crucial than ever. We explore historical insights on political cooperation, recent data on bipartisan attitudes, and practical strategies individuals and communities can adopt to reverse political polarization.

Topics Explored:

 * Bridging the Political Divide: Shannon’s work with Majority in the Middle.
 * The Importance of Bipartisan Cooperation and Practical Governance.
 * How Trust and Social Capital Influence Community Success.
 * The Impact of Polarization on Governance and Everyday Life.
 * Actionable Steps Toward Effective Political and Community Engagement.
 * Lessons from History and Contemporary Examples of Successful Bipartisanship.
 * Understanding the Evolution of Group Dynamics and Polarization.

Links:

 * Majority in the Middle: https://majoritymiddle.org [https://majoritymiddle.org/]
 * Connect with Shannon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannonwatson/
 * The State of Bipartisanship Report (2024): https://www.majoritymiddle.org/stateofbipartisanship2024
 * Robert Putnam’s research on trust in diverse communities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam
 * Robert Wright’s argument on majority dynamics in "The Evolution of God": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_God
 * Thoreau’s skepticism of telegraph communication: https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2018/summer/what-would-thoreau-think-our-24-hour-news-cycle
 * Shannon’s TEDx talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkGtCWCADXg

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

37–Shannon Watson: Getting Beyond Politics

Eric Pratum sits down with Ryan Hogan, founder of Talent Harbor and the creative mind behind ventures like Run For Your Lives and Hunt a Killer. Ryan shares insights from his unique journey—from entrepreneurial experiments as a child, through notable successes and tough lessons, to his current mission of reshaping the recruiting industry.

Ryan discusses the flawed standard recruiting model, his innovative "Recruiting as a Service" approach, and the critical importance of hiring for cultural alignment rather than just skills. He opens up about lessons learned from his entrepreneurial and military careers, emphasizing resilience, the power of micro-actions, and the necessity of embracing failure as a learning tool.

Topics Explored:

 1. From Creepy Crawlers to Talent Harbor: Ryan’s entrepreneurial journey
 2. Disrupting Traditional Recruiting: What's broken in the standard recruiting model?
 3. Recruiting as a Service: Aligning incentives, eliminating success fees, and reducing friction
 4. Lessons from the Military: Discipline, structure, and why some rules exist
 5. Hiring for Cultural Fit: The overlooked key to long-term organizational success
 6. Failure as a Teacher: Why Ryan embraces mistakes and what they've taught him
 7. Future-Proofing Careers: The role of AI, automation, and human authenticity in the workplace

Links:

 * Talent Harbor: https://talentharbor.com [https://talentharbor.com/]
 * Connect with Ryan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanehogan/
 * Ryan’s Podcast, Confessions of an EOS Implementer: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/confessions-of-an-implementer/id1740510216
 * The New Common Denominator of Success by Albert E.N. Gray: https://amzn.to/4kxhY9G
 * The Go-Giver: https://amzn.to/3YZeYL1

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

36–Ryan Hogan: The Recruiting Industry is Broken

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, host Eric Pratum sits down with Jessica Rhodes, founder and CEO of Interview Connections. Jessica discusses her journey from booking her dad's podcast interviews to establishing an agency that has facilitated tens of thousands of guest appearances.

She explains the nuances of becoming a successful podcast guest, addressing common pitfalls, misconceptions, and the strategies behind making every podcast appearance a meaningful part of your broader marketing and networking efforts. Jessica also explores how podcast guesting can yield impressive returns, even from shows with smaller audiences, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, preparation, and strategic repurposing of content.

Topics Explored:

 1. Jessica's Journey: From VA to Podcast Guesting Expert
 2. What Makes a Great Podcast Guest?
 3. Leveraging Podcast Appearances for Marketing & SEO
 4. Misconceptions About Podcast Audience Sizes
 5. How to Strategically Repurpose Podcast Content
 6. Measuring ROI from Podcast Guesting
 7. Authenticity & Emotional Resonance in Interviews
 8. Future Trends in Podcasting and Guesting

Links:

 * Connect with Jessica on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-rhodes-9a291020/
 * Jessica’s company, Interview Connections: http://interviewconnections.com [http://interviewconnections.com/]
 * Jessica on Trauma Rewired: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/trauma-rewired/id1537602643?i=1000615695331
 * Jessica on Jason Shupp’s From There to Here: https://missionmatters.com/jessica-rhodes-a-pioneer-in-podcasting/
 * Jessica’s podcast on 10Xing your podcast results: https://interviewconnections.com/repurpose-pod

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]
Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

35–Jessica Rhodes: Master the Podcast Guesting Game

Eric Pratum sits down with Dustin Ryen—entrepreneur, marketer, and yes, professional coconut shucker. Dustin shares his journey, from early entrepreneurial lessons learned while selling sandpaper to becoming known as "The Coconut Guy."

Dustin reveals how personal struggles and early life experiences shaped his entrepreneurial spirit, his willingness to embrace change and risk, and why authenticity has been central to his lasting success. He discusses the importance of emotional resonance in business, insights gained from difficult experiences—including being fired by Eric—and why finding joy in your work matters so much.

This conversation explores themes like taking control of your career, the evolving landscape of AI-driven change in business, and why personal connections remain irreplaceable. It’s an episode rich with stories, insights, and practical advice for anyone navigating their career and life.

Topics Explored:

 1. From Sandpaper to Coconuts: Lessons learned from Dustin's unconventional career path.
 2. Entrepreneurship and Risk: How Dustin’s early life shaped his attitude toward risk and opportunity.
 3. Being Fired (by the Host!): Reflections on turning challenging career moments into valuable life lessons.
 4. Emotional Resonance in Business: Why creating authentic connections matters more than ever.
 5. Adapting to AI and Automation: Preparing yourself for the evolving career landscape and embracing personal responsibility.
 6. Joy and Authenticity in Work: Why true passion and a sense of authenticity can define entrepreneurial success.

Links:

 * Connect with Dustin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustinryen/
 * Check out Dustin on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realcoconutguy/
 * Rob Croll on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rcroll/
 * How I Built This with Guy Raz: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-built-this-with-guy-raz/id1150510297
 * James Read’s LinkedIn post about ChatGPT blessing his study: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jameseread_has-ai-told-you-to-be-blessed-yet-recently-activity-7327866330798325760-RJCM [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jameseread_has-ai-told-you-to-be-blessed-yet-recently-activity-7327866330798325760-RJCM?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAACEC68BafzDVZ4TzUssWtchfx7tdwwkg6E]

34–Dustin Ryen: The Empire of the Coconut Shucker

Eric Pratum sits down with Mike Wiles—YouTube’s Tractor Mike—to explore the future of rural America, small-scale farming, and compact tractor markets. Mike shares his extensive experience, beginning with his early days working an apple orchard, through his career managing farm equipment dealerships, to educating hundreds of thousands of people through his popular YouTube channel.

Mike discusses the growing interest in small-time farming and rural living, particularly among people leaving urban areas. He provides insights into the economic factors, market shifts, and demographic changes affecting this movement. The conversation also covers critical issues such as education gaps among new rural residents, safety in agriculture, and the need for innovation in equipment design and service delivery.

Topics Explored:

 1. Mike’s journey: From radio farm director to YouTube tractor expert
 2. The boom in small tractors during COVID and its aftermath
 3. Why are more people moving from cities to rural properties?
 4. Economic and demographic impacts on rural markets and farming
 5. Future trends in compact tractor sales and equipment innovation
 6. The importance of education and safety for new rural landowners
 7. Challenges in agricultural service delivery and opportunities for innovation

Links:

 * Visit Mike’s website: https://asktractormike.com [https://asktractormike.com/]
 * Mike’s Tractor Caddy: https://asktractormike.com/product/tractor-caddy-tool-box/
 * Tractor Mike’s YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TractorMike
 * University of Missouri’s Food & Agricultural Policy Research Institute: https://fapri.missouri.edu [https://fapri.missouri.edu/]

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]
Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

33–Tractor Mike: The Future of Small Farming and Rural Living

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum [http://inboundandagile.com/] sits down with Jes Deaver [http://jesdeaver.com/], an architect and storyteller who uses interdisciplinary thinking, film, and science fiction to help communities envision better futures. Jes talks candidly about her journey from working with specialty cameras on film sets to exploring architecture through personal and collaborative projects, including the meaningful partnership with her architect father.

Jes shares fascinating stories of how she uses storytelling to make architecture relatable and exciting to the public, discussing her belief that everyone is an expert in architecture through their lived experiences. The episode also dives deep into the concept of positive constraints—how limitations like building codes or project parameters can inspire creativity, leading to extraordinary outcomes like the unique "eclipse" feature she designed in a home.

We also explore Jes’ work on public projects, her recent talk "Brave New City" at SXSW, and how embracing entropy and continual change have shaped her personal growth and professional innovation.

Topics Explored:

 * Jes’ path from filmmaking to architecture and the intersection of these fields.
 * The power of storytelling to demystify architecture.
 * Positive constraints in architecture and creativity, inspired by J.J. Abrams' "Mystery Box."
 * The role of architects in imagining and shaping long-term futures.
 * Jes' approach to making architecture accessible through immersive storytelling and multimedia.
 * Why embracing entropy—introducing deliberate chaos—can foster creativity and personal growth.

Links:

 * Connect with Jes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesdeaver/
 * Email Jes: jes@jesdeaver.com
 * Jes' Website: https://www.jesdeaver.com/
 * Jes' SXSW Talk, Brave New City: https://schedule.sxsw.com/2025/events/PP147385
 * Jes on Architette Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/041-jes-deaver-deep-dive-on-residential-project-offbeat/id1664012857?i=1000666628133
 * Jes on TALKdesign Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@talkdesignpodcast
 * Jes on Imaginary Worlds Podcast: https://www.imaginaryworldspodcast.org/episodes/blueprints-for-utopias
 * Brave Architecture: https://bravearchitecture.com/
 * J.J. Abrams' TED Talk on positive constraints: https://www.ted.com/talks/j_j_abrams_the_mystery_box?language=en
 * Spaceman in Bohemia by Jaroslav Kalfar: https://amzn.to/43hGLYl
 * "Spaceman" film based on Spaceman in Bohemia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceman_(2024_film)

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]
Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

32–Jes Deaver: Imagining Our Architectural Future Through Science Fiction

Eric Pratum speaks with Hugh Massie—founder and executive chairman of DNA Behavior—a behavioral insights company that helps individuals and organizations measure and leverage natural behavior patterns to drive financial performance, cultural alignment, and leadership effectiveness.

Hugh shares his journey from chartered accountant in Australia to global entrepreneur, explains how “financial DNA” and “business DNA” were born, and reveals how behavioral insights can predict profit, optimize hiring, reduce friction in business processes, and guide strategy in even the most complex environments.

This episode explores not only Hugh’s unique approach to leadership and entrepreneurship, but also how DNA Behavior has developed psychometric tools that are transparent, scalable, and able to identify performance-driving traits across teams, customers, and leaders. Hugh’s vision of behavior as a predictive tool—not just a descriptive one—is reshaping the way businesses understand their people.

Topics Explored:

 1. From Accountant to Behavioral Pioneer: How Hugh’s dissatisfaction with a purely financial world led him to psychometrics and human behavior.
 2. Hyper-Personalization in Finance: Why understanding a client’s behavioral profile was the cornerstone of Hugh’s wealth management success.
 3. The DNA Behavior Origin Story: How a coffee shop conversation and a curious team member launched a decades-long mission.
 4. Behavior Makes Money: Hugh’s research linking six core behaviors to profitability in Fortune 500 companies.
 5. The Rise of Digital Behavioral Scanning: How DNA Behavior is eliminating friction and profiling hundreds of millions of people without them ever taking an assessment.
 6. The Future of Behavioral Science: Why Hugh believes behavior is “the last frontier” in business optimization.

Links:

 * Connect with Hugh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hughmassie/
 * Check out DNA Behavior: https://dnabehavior.com/start
 * Leadership Financial Value Creation Capability Research: https://kb.dnabehavior.com/gene/leadership-financial-value-creation-capability-research
 * PwC Report: 45% of CEOs believe their businesses won’t be viable in a decade: https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/news-room/press-releases/2024/economic-optimism-doubles-yet-almost-half-of-ceos-do-not-believe-their-businesses-will-be-viable-in-a-decade.html
 * Play Bigger (book): https://amzn.to/4djaViL

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]

Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

31–Hugh Massie: Reaching 1 Billion Annually with Behavioral Insights

Eric Pratum sits down with Kari Zeller, whose journey began as an Air Force officer confronting the critical realities of aircraft maintenance during wartime. Kari explains how her leadership evolution from the battlefield to the corporate world shaped her approach to organizational mobilization—a distinct departure from traditional change management. Together, they explore why aligning strategy, structure, culture, and human engagement is essential for successfully navigating complex transitions, including mergers, acquisitions, and shifts in organizational eras.

Kari also addresses today's pressing leadership challenges around AI disruption, accelerating technological change, and the profound psychological aspects of human transitions, urging leaders to foster genuine trust and co-creation rather than control and coercion.

Topics Explored:

 1. From Battlefield to Boardroom: How Kari’s military experiences shaped her views on leadership and organizational mobilization.
 2. Beyond Change Management: Why traditional strategies often fail and how mobilization creates lasting organizational transformations.
 3. Human Messiness & Performance: Embracing subjective human experiences as a pathway to real organizational success.
 4. Co-Creation in Leadership: The importance of genuinely involving teams in authoring the organization's future.
 5. AI and Organizational Uncertainty: Preparing teams and strategies for accelerating disruptions from AI and quantum computing.
 6. Psychological Transitions: Effectively navigating the human dimensions of major change, from grief and loss to successful integration into new organizational realities.

Links:

 * Connect with Kari on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kari-zeller
 * Visit Kari’s Company: https://www.tgn-consulting.com/
 * Some of Kari’s thoughts on AI: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/introducing-leaders-our-new-non-human-peer-kari-granger-eo9uc/
 * Is this our Buffalo Moment? https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/future-work-augmentation-human-connection-competitive-kari-granger-uoaac/ [https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/future-work-augmentation-human-connection-competitive-kari-granger-uoaac/?trackingId=o8WAWMOfSe%2BDp4mjLBIVmg%3D%3D]
 * Kari discussing ontological vulnerability: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0FIA29Wm6Q
 * Radical Hope by Jonathan Lear: https://amzn.to/44mA7lY
 * JOEY Restaurants https://joeyrestaurants.com [https://joeyrestaurants.com/]
 * It was in Neil Postman’s Amusing Ourselves to Death, where the discussion of the difference between Orwell’s and Huxley’s visions of the future occurred: https://amzn.to/44uDUxB
 * Kari’s podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/leadership-impact/id1438805019
 * Adam Wallace’s episode: https://unfoldingthought.com/18-adam-wallace-overcoming-constraints-to-capture-value/

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]
Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

30–Kari Zeller: Humanity’s Buffalo Moment

In this episode of The Unfolding Thought Podcast, Eric Pratum talks with Derek Mulhern—a consultant often working with nonprofits and associations to align their strategic vision with practical human-centered solutions. With over 15 years of experience in organizational strategy, team alignment, and board governance, Derek shares powerful insights into why many organizations struggle with effective change implementation and how true transformation hinges upon understanding and addressing interpersonal dynamics.

Derek discusses why simply applying "best practices" often misses the mark, leading to burnout, frustration, and organizational friction. Through stories and real-world examples, Derek illustrates how to better approach organizational change by grounding it in clear, shared experiences rather than abstract metrics alone. He emphasizes that transformation becomes truly sustainable when changes become ingrained in the culture, mindset, and everyday experiences of an organization’s people.

Topics Explored:

 1. Beyond Best Practices – Why standard solutions often fail to produce meaningful change.
 2. Human-Centered Strategy – The importance of aligning strategic goals with the lived experiences of people in your organization.
 3. The Experience of Transformation – Why true change is more like an ongoing journey than a clearly defined destination.
 4. The Pitfalls of Misalignment – How hidden assumptions and unspoken expectations derail organizational effectiveness.
 5. Visioning for Reality – Effective strategies to define and articulate clear, achievable, and shared organizational visions.
 6. Managing Overwhelm and Conflict – Practical tools and exercises Derek employs to manage team dynamics and interpersonal conflicts.

Links:

 * Connect with Derek Mulhern on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-mulhern-bb674214/
 * Derek Mulhern Consulting: https://www.derekmulhern.com [https://www.derekmulhern.com/]
 * Discussion with Jeremy Nulik: https://unfoldingthought.com/jeremy-nulik-how-vision-shapes-strategy/

For more episodes, visit: https://unfoldingthought.com [https://unfoldingthought.com/]
Join the conversation by emailing Eric at: eric@inboundandagile.com

29–Derek Mulhern: The Human Side of Organizational Strategy

The Unfolding Thought Podcast asks a provocative question: Why do we—and the groups we form—think and act the way we do? Although we may feel we understand ourselves and others, much of what drives our thoughts, choices, and behaviors remains hidden or overlooked. Through candid discussions and multi-disciplinary explorations, we reveal those unseen forces—biases, contexts, and patterns—and show how they influence individual and collective dynamics.

If you’re a leader or an intellectually curious mind looking for deep, high-value conversations, join us. We’ll challenge common assumptions, illuminate new perspectives, and spark meaningful change—helping you navigate relationships with greater clarity, innovate with confidence, and connect more authentically with those around you.

Eric Pratum

Shows