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Lee Cockerell: Disney World and the Discipline of Leadership
31 Plays10 days ago
In this episode, Eric talks with Lee Cockerell, former Executive Vice President of Operations for Walt Disney World, about what leadership actually requires when the stakes are high and the pressure never stops.
Lee’s path to running one of the most complex organizations in the world did not begin at Disney. He grew up on a farm in Oklahoma, worked as a banquet waiter, got fired, had his furniture confiscated by the sheriff, and spent years learning hard lessons at Hilton and Marriott before Disney ever called.
The conversation explores the hidden foundations beneath visible success: discipline learned early, the turning point of mastering time management, the shift from being a strong manager to becoming a true leader, and the moment he realized that hiring great people and getting out of their way mattered more than personal control.
They discuss psychological safety, the danger of becoming a bottleneck, the myth of being “too busy” to grow, and why nearly every business problem is ultimately a people problem. Lee shares why he now considers himself a teacher more than an executive, and why “training and enforcement” remain the backbone of excellence.
At its core, this is a conversation about responsibility. In work. In family. In leadership. And in the quiet influence you have every single day.
Topics Covered
- Growing up on a farm and learning discipline early
- Getting fired and rebuilding from scratch
- The career impact of mastering time management
- The difference between being a manager and being a leader
- Why most problems are people problems
- Hiring experts and resisting the urge to micromanage
- How leaders accidentally become bottlenecks
- Psychological safety and why fear destroys performance
- Letting go of past mistakes
- Training and enforcement as the path to excellence
- Managing like a mother: clarity, accountability, and care
- The weight of responsibility in both business and family
- Why influence is never neutral
Episode Links
Visit Lee’s website: https://www.leecockerell.com
For more episodes: https://unfoldingthought.com
Questions or guest ideas: eric@inboundandagile.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Background
00:00:02
Speaker
Lee, thank you for joining me. Where does today's recording find you? I'm in Orlando, Florida, where I have been for the last 30 years. As I said before we started recording, i I know for certain I've read three of your books, but if I checked Goodreads, I believe I have read four. I think you've written four books. Is that right?
Childhood and Family Struggles
00:00:25
Speaker
Correct.
00:00:26
Speaker
Would you mind telling me a little bit about yourself, Lee? I grew up in Oklahoma. uh, up in Copan, Oklahoma on a farm. We were poor as we could be, but I always tell people when you're a kid, you don't know you're poor as long as you get dinner. And, uh, uh, yeah, uh, kind of a dysfunctional life. My mother was, uh, had, ah had a pretty rough life growing up.
Early Life and Career Beginnings
00:00:52
Speaker
So she was married five times uh, and, uh,
00:00:55
Speaker
and But that didn't really affect me early on. i i didn't really find out about a lot of that until I was much older. and And so i we finally we moved moved to Bartlesville, Oklahoma. And then we moved Ardmore. And my dad started a trucking company.
00:01:16
Speaker
oh my wifes My mother's ah fourth husband was a doctor. So he had money. She started making better choices. So I got to go to college and I went to Oklahoma State for two years and then left and went in the Army in 1964 because I was not a good student. ah My mother said she was tired of paying for those grades. So I i yeah i had a lot of good experience. I worked in the oil fields one summer. I worked in a lumber yard. I was a delivery person for ah always had a job. It seems like when you start out on a farm,
00:01:50
Speaker
ah You don't know you have a choice. You just have things you got to do. And so I had a lot of good. I worked at Lake Tahoe, Nevada and a casino. and I had a lot of experience. And so after the army, I met a fellow in the army and he said we're going to ah he was going to Washington,
Hospitality Industry Journey
00:02:09
Speaker
D.C. to open the Washington Hilton Hotel.
00:02:12
Speaker
And did I want to go? I'd never been out of Oklahoma. I had no idea. I'd never been in a hotel. And oh so we went and we got there, stayed at the Marriott overnight, went over and got a job at the Hilton. The next day i I got a job as a banquet waiter serving banquets and turned out to be a great job.
00:02:33
Speaker
ah I didn't know what I was doing, but somebody took me by the hand and taught me. So if you run into a nice person in your career, you're lucky. Cause they put up with you not knowing what you're doing and they teach you what you should be doing.
00:02:45
Speaker
Um, so I had a good success there. I was a waiter a couple of years and I met my wife in that hotel. um I got into accounting and finance as a clerk to get some experience more than being a waiter the rest of my life. And, um,
00:03:00
Speaker
That worked out pretty well. I got promoted ah into the um accounting job after about six, seven months because my boss left. And so I worked a waiter at night and worked in the office during during the day to be able to survive on that low pay that they paid in the office.
00:03:17
Speaker
And ah after we my wife and I got married, I got promoted, moved to Chicago to the Conrad Hilton Hotel. And we had a baby. And then I got promoted to go to the New York City to the Waldorf Astoria.
00:03:31
Speaker
And I worked there for three years. And then i we moved to Los Angeles. I was the director of food and beverage at the Los Angeles Hilton. And i I was getting these jobs because I had really good experience. I knew the business. I'd been a waiter. been a cook. i i knew And then getting that finance piece really that kind of ah solved it for the employer, knowing that Lee can run the business, the the financial side, the service side, and all of that stuff in between. yeah.
00:04:01
Speaker
In L.A., I quit because my boss was a jerk, or maybe I was. I don't know which, but it I left. Took a job in Lancaster, Pennsylvania in a hotel, doubled my salary, and got fired 90 days later.
00:04:13
Speaker
So now I tell everybody I'm living in Lancaster, Pennsylvania with a Volkswagen, a two-year-old, a wife, and no job. And the sheriff confiscated our furniture because we broke the lease on the apartment. It's too early.
00:04:27
Speaker
and It took me three months to get a job with Marriott. and I stayed with Marriott for 17 years. I became the vice president of food beverage ah development for the company worldwide. And I was still shocked that I kept getting those jobs. I was waiting because when I go give speech, they always entered boost the first guys from Harvard. And then they got Lee Cockrell coming up here. We don't know where he came from. And so.
00:04:53
Speaker
I just had a great career there. i got recruited by Disney in 1990 to go to France, open Disneyland Paris. Again, they wanted me to open all the food businesses, the restaurants. And once you get the expertise, it's hard to get away from it.
00:05:08
Speaker
And the food business is brutal. I mean, if you can if you survive food business, you can survive anything. And then ah about after three years, i got asked I got promoted to head of the hotel division there.
Disney Leadership
00:05:22
Speaker
And then another year, i got promoted to senior vice president of hotel operations for Orlando, for Disney. And then two years after that, they promoted me to be in charge of all the Walt Disney World.
00:05:36
Speaker
I was going like, whoa. And so I was in charge of all the hotels, the resorts, the parks, the whole ball of wax. And I had a great career. I did that for 10 years. And then I retired started my little business of consulting and speaking and writing books and something to keep busy.
00:05:54
Speaker
Tried to play golf, but I was so bad at it, I quit. And yeah. Somebody said, why'd you quit? I said, because nobody clapped when I played golf. When I give speeches, sometimes they clap.
Post-Retirement Ventures
00:06:04
Speaker
So I needed that for my ah for my ah confidence. But that's kind of my life. Went by, quit. My wife and I, Priscilla, have been married 58 years.
00:06:16
Speaker
I've got three grandkids. at Two just got married and one's looking. And ah the life's been good. It turned out okay. There were a lot of bumps along the way where you don't know what's going to happen.
00:06:29
Speaker
ah And you you worry about it, but it turned out okay. And I really was lucky. i worked for Hilton, married at Disney. They were three great companies. And the good thing about that is they train you so you learn. They don't just take you and and throw you in there. throw you in there they You really get a lot of training and development. And I guess that's the advice I'd give to any young person. Try to go with a good company for at least for five years and then go do whatever you want. But you'll get training. You'll get development. You'll learn the right way to do things. and so
00:07:01
Speaker
And it gets it opens doors, no question. You said you read my books. those Nobody would buy those books if it didn't say Disney on it. like you know i mean, that opens the door. And ah so i think keeping that in mind is get good experience when you can, because you may have great experience from a small little company, but it's hard to convince an employer that because they like to see the brand name.
00:07:31
Speaker
All experience is good experience. And it was ill it'll ah do ah it'll do something for you somewhere along the way because now you know, you understand, you maybe have more empathy for people. ah for A lot of those people in the hotel business live on the edge, let me tell you. Housekeepers and maids and cooks and And it gives you an appreciation. But I think growing up in Oklahoma probably was ah the main thing because I worked.
00:08:00
Speaker
ah Work was never, when my boss said you had to work six days a week. I okay. that's and I didn't even know you didn't have to And so it was it's kind of responsibility. And ah ah certainly I was taught that growing up about finish the job. you know, you got to milk the cows, all of them.
00:08:22
Speaker
not Just a few. And um so those are things you learn about. And I tell people today, if if there's only two things you need to do if you want to be successful, and I really believe this, have a good attitude and be reliable.
00:08:35
Speaker
it You know, because that's people see, hey, man, this guy's got a great attitude. He's reliable. He's always on time. He does what he says he's going to do. Those two things. That's all people know. And you that gives you time to learn that, you know, the kind of the technical part of whatever you're trying to learn to do.
00:08:52
Speaker
And I think that will take anybody. Just be a good person. Be on time to work. Have a good attitude. Next thing you know, you'll get a promotion.
00:09:03
Speaker
And because you're, you don't have a lot of competition these days. a lot of people are just unreliable. They just, They don't like what they're doing. If you don't like what you're doing, keep it to yourself. Don't, you know, don't show it because nobody, there's no upside for you being disgruntled. Nobody cares.
00:09:22
Speaker
Uh, so yeah, those were all good experiences. I really, I look back on some, boy, there's some days you just want to walk away, but, uh, It's like life. Things happen.
00:09:34
Speaker
And getting my furniture confiscated by the sheriff, that was not a fun day. And getting fired was not fun. and But these things happen.
00:09:46
Speaker
And I think the good, I try to tell people today, you are going to have obstacles in your life.
Life Lessons and Resilience
00:09:51
Speaker
So just pick yourself up and go around and get started again. Cause basically when you have obstacles, nobody really cares. So you better care and move on.
00:10:03
Speaker
And, uh, too many people drop out after they have a hard time one time or, you know, mentally they, there's a lot of anxiety today. lot. People are really worried about everything.
00:10:15
Speaker
On that point, I don't know if I recall this from any of your writing, but you, you know, speaking about different words, but you run into a challenge and you just kind of give up, you know, you go look for the next job or whatever else it is. Um, I, i think earlier in my career,
00:10:39
Speaker
i I definitely did that. You know, if I ran into a problem, it was the other guy's fault. It was not my fault. I think I would like to think that I have learned from that. And that's one reason that I have much better relationships now from later in my career than did from earlier in I do from earlier in my career. But You, I'm going to tie together two things. One, just generally, you know, having a good attitude, being willing to stick through things that are difficult and all that, and tie that together with, you wrote a book, Time Management Magic.
00:11:20
Speaker
And i think if I recall correctly, you say something in that book to the effect of, I used to be one of these people that would say, i don't have time.
00:11:32
Speaker
And then I realized, you realized that if it's important, I'm going to make the time, which that's, that's it. You can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I look at things like that, that the about as in people just often don't take responsibility for how their time is spent, how their day is spent.
00:11:54
Speaker
ah We very, ah plenty of people don't take responsibility for if you don't like your boss or if if something is hard at work, that it's the boss's fault. And I'm curious about, i I don't know that it came through clearly to me in any of your writing that Did you have those situations early in your career, maybe separate from time management, where you quit a job because you blamed the other person or you didn't want to put up with the situation or something like that?
00:12:25
Speaker
No, not early in my career. But I think when you think of time management, what happens and people blame other people is because we don't do a good job of teaching people how to be well organized and how to think about what they should be working on, what they shouldn't be working on and what the distractions are
Time Management and Organization
00:12:43
Speaker
in their life. And yeah when I, I had the same problem I was working, I was probably had been working 10 or 15 years by the time I figured out I need to get an organization of because, um as you get promoted and life changes, you get more responsibility. You know, when I was single, Hey, I could get anything done.
00:13:03
Speaker
Then I got married. And then had a baby. And then my boss wanted something done by five o'clock Friday. And I needed to go to a soccer game. And my mother-in-law was flying in Saturday. And my boss wanted something. You know, it just keeps growing. Then maybe you buy a house. and then you got things with a house problem. And then you, and the recession sets in. You got to deal with expenses. I'm like, life Your responsibilities grow, but most people don't haven't learned how to handle them. And time management is just like taking a math course or any course. You could learn to do it. It's a system. You get up in the morning. You spend. Spend 15, 20 minutes planning your day, what you need to work on, what's important, what is vital, what's got to get done by noon, this, that, and you work through it. At the end of the day, you may have two or three things left, but they're not as important.
00:13:56
Speaker
You can work on those tomorrow, or you can come in early the next day, or you can stay late. As long as every day you've got in front of you, you're excited. And when you think about the responsibilities you have, you'll think about this too.
00:14:10
Speaker
So you've got a family. And then next thing you know, you've got aging parents. How are you going to take care of them? And then you've got retirement it' will come up before you know it. And then college fund. And then, and then, and then. And you've got to stay on top of these things because if you don't put enough time against them, time gets away from you.
00:14:27
Speaker
And it's Christmas again. and i said I tell people, you're born, you're 21, you're 65, and you're dead. This is how life goes by. And how many people say, I'm going to get to it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to.
00:14:40
Speaker
And, you know, that's what happens. And you just look around all the people, you know, that have let their lives fall apart. Divorces, ah not children that are having problems because they didn't get enough attention. um It incredible.
00:14:54
Speaker
you You got to really know when somebody says what kind of responsibility you have, you probably have 20 or 25 things. Your house taking care of it, your grandparents getting older too and spending time with them, call your mom every day, say hello, I love you.
00:15:11
Speaker
um ah Going back to school, learning a new skill. preparing yourself for the future. You know, I'm trying to learn AI right now. It's an art, but I'm using it and I'm trying and I'm learning it because I know it will be something that I'm going to be dealing with people that are using it. I need to understand what I can put in there, what I can get out of it, how I can use it, how I can edit it.
00:15:33
Speaker
And so um I think the future is coming quicker now than it ever did. But things are changing so fast. It's like, what? I mean, really, AI, where'd that come from?
00:15:45
Speaker
ah Two years ago, I wasn't thinking about that. i was i had no idea. and Boom, here it is. um And that's how life attacks you. All of a sudden, you wake up one day and there's a recession or you get fired or you don't have a job. Do you have a plan? i always tell people, anticipate what can happen to you and get ready. you know Buy a fire extinguisher before your house burns down and go to the gym before you need bypass surgery and tell your wife you love her so she doesn't leave you.
00:16:15
Speaker
There's a lot of things. Discipline your children. Teach them. Raise them with empathy. And, you know, it's just I was never aware of myself halfway through my career. I didn't know who I was.
00:16:27
Speaker
And I started thinking about these kinds of things because I read a lot and I'm trying to get these ideas. and Oh, yeah. And i I blamed everybody else, too. You know, but I will tell you that most of your problems are your fault.
00:16:43
Speaker
And people say, well, this guy's not coming to work on time. I say, well, you hired him. hey You know, you did you train him? Have you been clear with him? What are you going do? I mean, when we think about it, you know, I don't feel well. Well, let's take a look at how you live your life. How you drink a bottle of wine every night, meet two hamburgers. And when you boil it down, almost every problem you have, you could fix.
00:17:08
Speaker
Now, the problem is we don't like to do hard things. We don't like to have hard conversations with people not doing their job. We don't like to make hard decisions so that they get left out.
00:17:20
Speaker
And when the if you don't do the hard things, life gets harder. Cause they'll come there's coming, they're coming back for you. And, uh, I really about, oh, in the last 15 years, I really got in my mind clearly that when something's hard, I just take care of it.
00:17:36
Speaker
I don't care. Cause I'm not, if I don't, I won't sleep well tonight yeah and I don't care what it is. i kill it is it out and it's a responsibility.
Instilling Work Ethic in Children
00:17:48
Speaker
And first of all, you're usually helping the person when you have that conversation. is you're you're You're doing it for them so they can be successful. and And that's why I say manage like a mother. Mothers don't care if you're happy or not. You better do the right thing.
00:18:05
Speaker
And they'll ah they'll have a chat with you. And then they'll tell you I love you before you go to sleep. And that's it. It's encouragement, love, clarity.
00:18:17
Speaker
Yeah. That's where we got to work on. And I think it's a big problem today with a lot of people that a lot of young people don't have jobs anymore. i always work, so I didn't know there was any difference. in People should have jobs. all my When my son got older, we sent him to Oklahoma every summer to work on a cattle ranch, digging Fitzpost holes and clearing brush. And he was 15 years old. And then our grandkids, they didn't have to work, but we made sure they did. They worked in horticulture.
00:18:46
Speaker
pulling weeds six o'clock in the morning every summer. They're all now graduated from college. They're all working. They're all stable because those early, that early development of, you know, when you got to be at work six o'clock in the morning, you got to get your act together. And, uh, Disney, they were working at Disney too. And Disney fire you if you come to work late every day.
00:19:09
Speaker
So, uh, Yeah, early reality. And you can hug your kids, but make sure they mow the lawn. And whatever you got them to do, anything, take care of the dog, take the treasure. out the All of those. And by the way, kids don't mind, actually.
00:19:26
Speaker
They don't mind. they you just, they do it. You know, my mother used to say, you boys can't go anywhere on Saturday until you get the lawn mowed. Boy, we can mow it faster that way.
00:19:37
Speaker
Cause then she would let us go. You know, she had a some system. There was a system of, you got to do this if you want to do that. And i think that's life. You know, we all have to do certain things if we want something else.
00:19:50
Speaker
And, uh, Most parents are the problem these days, by the way, in my opinion, not the school teachers. Teachers are not the problem. what's What's an example of them? What I'm thinking is is when i when my son was in school, I stayed very close to the teachers. I went up to see them, talked to them. I told them, make sure you let me know if he's not doing what he's supposed to be doing. I don't want to call me. yeah and that Because what you think your kids are doing and what they're doing. Right.
00:20:18
Speaker
So you just got to be, ah you got to be in, know what's going on in life. Yeah. You got to force yourself into that. ah And, um, you'll be ahead of everybody else. Cause most people don't go up and see the teachers and talk to about their kids and say, you know, Hey, call me if there's a problem and, uh, let me know and we'll take care of it. But we never blame the teacher.
00:20:40
Speaker
Uh, discipline starts at home. Yeah. You know, it's just, uh, if you care, you'll know what's going on. Yeah. We got to quit walking away from the hard things. I tell people today, if you can't have a hard conversation with people or make a hard decision, number one, don't have children because that's they're the curse of your life after that.
00:20:59
Speaker
I mean, it's one thing after another. And yeah it's it's high responsibility. and And if you screw that up, you so really screwed up. you know If your kids don't turn out well and right and secure and have confidence and believe in themselves, and that takes time.
00:21:16
Speaker
When you look back, and you know, are there specific things that you see that, you know, lessons that you've had or big changes that you see that occurred in you that you feel like, you know, if my kids or if people that I've managed, if people out there could just learn this lesson earlier, i think they would benefit from this lesson that maybe you didn't learn until you're 35, 40, whatever it is.
00:21:45
Speaker
Well, I certainly did not have a lot of self-confidence when I started. I didn't have a college degree. kind of grew up in this ah fairly dysfunctional family. ah Back then, dropping out of college can really make you insecure because everybody was anybody was going to college. And what's Lee doing? He's a waiter at the Washington Hilton.
00:22:06
Speaker
I was not organized. I got things done, but I did it by putting time in. i was working late, staying going in Saturday, Sunday nights all the time. because I didn't know how to handle this oh continued new responsibilities coming at me.
00:22:22
Speaker
And ah that was becoming a problem with my own, my marriage. I was never home. i was And luckily, I got to go to that time management seminar. My boss said he's going to take us, our whole team, for two days.
00:22:38
Speaker
And I said, na I can't go to a two-day time seminar. Are you crazy? I got to work, man. And it was the best thing I ever did. You just don't realize that what you don't know, if you'll go learn it, that that problem goes away.
00:22:50
Speaker
And yeah I would say that time management seminar is the one driver that grew my career because I was Mr. Reliable. I mean, i you give me something, unless I'm dead, it'll be done by Friday. you know And I learned how to delegate. I learned how to tell the truth. I learned how to get to the point.
00:23:09
Speaker
Somebody asked me recently, how do you save time, Lee? I said, get to the point. What do you want? you you know And be a nice person. You don't have to intimidate people. You don't have to ah Scare people. You don't have to make people feel uncomfortable.
Role as a Teacher and Mentor
00:23:24
Speaker
Just be clear and then and be there and make sure you're setting the groundwork that you're there to help them.
00:23:32
Speaker
And I'm going to teach you. I saw one of your questions, toward what do you consider yourself? I today would consider myself a teacher, period, because I've learned when you teach, everything gets better.
00:23:46
Speaker
You know? When you're a boss, things get worse. When you're bossing people around and scaring people, teach. If somebody's not doing something right at work and you're the boss, teach.
00:23:57
Speaker
tea Stop and show them again. Show them again. Show them again. That's what mothers do. Basically, they teach their kids the right way to do things, and they hold them accountable. and Mr. Merritt even told me that. He said, Lee, the only way you get excellence is training and enforcement.
00:24:15
Speaker
You know, when you think about it, training, you got standards, you train the people on them, then you hold them accountable. You got to do it. When they're not doing it, you speak to them just like your mother does you. If you didn't make your bed today, she's going to have a chat with you.
00:24:29
Speaker
You know, and then by Friday, you'll be making your bed or you won't have your phone or something. And it's just it. i I think people don't think deeply enough about responsibility is a big deal.
00:24:43
Speaker
Can you imagine having children and being irresponsible? Oh, my God. Screwing up a life or having people work for you and they don't get better and their whole life doesn't develop the way it could have.
00:24:56
Speaker
Life is short. and Make people better. And I think about that every day. How can I make somebody better? How can I make somebody feel not intimidated to meet with me or to get the feedback?
00:25:08
Speaker
You've managed a lot of people throughout your career, so I would love for you to tell me what you think about this and maybe even if you disagree, but or if you've had a similar experience, let's say, but some of the things in my life that are hardest to let go of, you know, mistakes that I made or things that I feel guilty about or shame or whatever... And I, I'm a very low anxiety person. i just don't worry about hardly anything, but you know, there are things in your life where you made the wrong decision or whatever. And so those very few things, at least as far as I can recall, just about, you know, the few that come up are
00:25:53
Speaker
when I was ah new to managing people and I made the wrong decision, you know, I either just told them what to do or I, I gave them the wrong direction or I used power instead of trying to generate alignment or any number of things. And you've managed a lot of people.
00:26:16
Speaker
So I'm curious, Have you, deep can you look back and think about, you know, you're saying like make somebody's day better or help a person or whatever. Have you learned from similar experiences where you think, oh I could have helped that person more?
00:26:31
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, that's the problem. And I would say that when I started out, I was a real good manager. I could get things done, but I wasn't a very good leader. I didn't make people feel like I cared about them. i didn't and But I will tell you about the mistakes you made in your life.
00:26:48
Speaker
Let it go. Don't worry about it. i mean know here As they say, the few the past is gone, the future is tomorrow, and you can i i don't think back about the errors I made. I always think back about how I've corrected them now for the future and because we all, you know, some people just can't let go of some mistake or some relationship or some stupid thing you did.
00:27:14
Speaker
10 years ago. only one that was a little different to that, sometimes I... ah And sorry about maybe something I said to my wife along the way or how I said it. or But that's all. No other stuff. Business is what it is. And I did i think in one thing to remember, my father-in-law, who was an admiral in the Navy, said after he was older, my wife said, what advice would you give people to have a good life? He said, I would suggest as long as you get up every morning and do your best, forgive yourself.
00:27:48
Speaker
That's all you can do. Today you did your best. Maybe you made a mistake, but to tomorrow you can fix it. And just do your best and forgive yourself. I i think that is like, because if you did your best, you did your best.
00:28:02
Speaker
It's all you knew. you If you need to go learn something, then you go learn it and then you'll do better. And of course, my mother-in-law needle pointed that slogan on everything in the house. We've got pillows with that on it.
00:28:13
Speaker
Do your best forgive yourself. You get to a certain scale terms of how many people are reporting up through you or how much revenue you're overseeing or however we want to measure it.
00:28:24
Speaker
And i think there are probably things that you had to learn to stop doing.
Hiring and Trusting Great People
00:28:30
Speaker
And I'm curious what some of those lessons might have been. Well, the main thing I had to stop doing was getting involved in everything. and being the person that had to get approval, some people, my people had come see me to get a sign offer.
00:28:46
Speaker
And I would say my basic philosophy the last 15 years was hire great people, be clear with them about their what your expectations are, their responsibility, their authority, and then leave my alone.
00:29:01
Speaker
and be available if they need you. ah you know Like your mom or mother might have said, I'm available when you need me. You don't have come. And that's what I did. People say, Lee, what'd you do at Disney? I said, the last 10 years, not much.
00:29:15
Speaker
I just hired really great people. I never i made no mistakes. i hired great people. And I let them run their business and do their job. And because they were people that I had an engineer, you know, I don't even have a college degree. i have an engineer doing $5 billion dollars a year and maintenance, 7,000 maintenance people at Orlando. I had security, 1,800 security officers on the property. i don't know about security.
00:29:40
Speaker
I had the best retail person. You can imagine because we sell to the best food and beverage guy. he knew everything. He was an ex chef. Every job I got, I got somebody literally, I mean, 10 times better than I was.
00:29:54
Speaker
And then I just kind of, but you know, made sure they and they they understood they had the authority to do their job and they didn't have to check in with me. If they thought they had to check in with me, I was available. We could talk about it.
00:30:09
Speaker
And the only time we really had to get together and they all of us agree on it was there after nine eleven when we had huge problems and sometimes recessions and sometimes hurricanes.
00:30:21
Speaker
But day to day, engineer, he was great. He's now president of Disney World. ah Three of the people reported to me have been presidents of Disney World.
00:30:35
Speaker
And I think I would say they we learned from each other, but they... They know technically how to do your job, but can you handle the ah the the the stress, the anxiety, the doubting yourself, making a decision, ah involving people, asking people's opinion?
00:30:57
Speaker
You know, those softer things that where people, you know, somebody said, why were you so successful so le it at the end of your career? And I said, because people like me. That's all. They like me. And that's something to that. Think about you know.
00:31:13
Speaker
I'm approachable. um You can ask me anything. i don't Nobody was afraid to come tell me the truth, what's going on. They'd tell me when I was making a mistake. I didn't overrear. so Okay, that's a good point.
00:31:26
Speaker
They kept me from getting fired, frankly. I mean, because when you've got good counselors around you and you listen to them and you've hired great people, oh no you know yeah if you're going to run a big restaurant, better hire a good chef.
00:31:40
Speaker
but you know that Or it doesn't matter how much you care if you can't cook. And ah so I think those kinds of things, talent, the most important thing you can do in your life is who you hire, who you bring in.
00:31:52
Speaker
And the hardest thing is getting rid of the people who don't work out. I mean, letting them go. Just so often they're good people. They're nice people. They are people that are trying, but they just can't get it done.
00:32:04
Speaker
yeah. people so i tell people, every problem in your life, I don't care what it is, will be a person. A person's going to create every problem you have.
00:32:15
Speaker
It's somebody, maybe three levels down, 12 levels down. I don't know. But it'll people say, what do you mean? I said, why did that Alaskan Airlines door fall off the airplane in flight?
00:32:28
Speaker
I said, I don't know. But somebody didn't do what they were supposed to do, a person. And that door didn't just fall off. Somebody didn't put it on right, didn't make it right, didn't do it. and wake So you got to have great people. That's how you survive. you know if you go on a trip online,
00:32:46
Speaker
You want the right people with you. You reminded me of another thing. President Eisenhower, I think I recall reading in one of his biographies that he, when he got to the White House there, he instituted this policy that they referred to as no sealed envelopes, if I recall correctly. And it was the the way that the story goes, at least, is that he found that, you know, he would get to his desk and there's all this mail, more or less. There's all these to do's.
00:33:15
Speaker
And there were a lot of them were sealed envelopes and he'd open them up and think, why did somebody else not deal with this?
00:33:26
Speaker
And, well, there was this idea that this can only be decided by the president. And essentially, the at least as the story goes, he said, I'm only one person.
00:33:39
Speaker
You know, if something's so important that it has to get to me, then someone needs to have looked at it first to decide that I was the right person.
00:33:50
Speaker
Bingo. As you're talking about hiring the right people, sort of getting out of their way or letting them do their job, you reminded me of that. Well, it's true. ah Give people... authority to do things, they will do it. You know, your people, are anybody works with you, wants to do the right thing. Just tell them they can and don't make them nervous. or the The main problem we have in business and in families is a lack of psychological safety.
00:34:17
Speaker
I don't feel safe. I'm going to get in trouble if I say this. I'm psychological safety. It's probably the biggest problem we have right now everywhere.
Building Workplace Psychological Safety
00:34:24
Speaker
People don't want to tell the boss the truth. They're afraid. Wow, he may not like that. He'll remember. I might get demoted. about And to create philosopher so fights psychological safety is really hard because you've got to really be trusted and you've got to let it go and you've got to be the person they're not afraid to come to you and tell you. and It's probably the biggest problem we have.
00:34:50
Speaker
The main reason people don't do the right thing is they're afraid. How will you know? If you're involved in your business and you've got the right people around you and you're walking your business and your people trust you, and they you'll know.
00:35:05
Speaker
You'll know. There's a lot going on around you that you may not see if you're not paying attention. You say in one of your books that it's either travel or living abroad or or maybe it's both that you feel like is really important. And I've lived overseas. Or do you live?
00:35:23
Speaker
I lived in Freiburg, Germany, so six hours from where you lived. And I also, for a short time, lived in Sweden. And I went over there to study for my master's in German and moved to Sweden.
00:35:40
Speaker
And then I ended up coming of back to the U.S. And then I went back as an exchange student then a second time. That had a lot to do with who you are. ah hundred percent.
00:35:51
Speaker
You know, when you do that, you have very little discrimination in your bones or bigotry or. Lee, I'll ask you two final questions and then who knows, maybe we'll get a chance to talk in the future.
Influence and Legacy
00:36:04
Speaker
The first one is where should I go to learn more? You know, not everyone has read your books and I, if I, if I've read them all, then I definitely would recommend them. So where should I go? And second,
00:36:17
Speaker
you have any words of wisdom or things you would want me to think about after today's conversation? Yeah, well, I have a website, LeeCockerl.com. It's got everything. i put it in one place so I know where it is. And books or speeches or whatever. Podcasts. We have a podcast. It's about to hit 600 episodes.
00:36:37
Speaker
Uh, we've been, have not missed a Tuesday in 11 years. And, uh, so, and it's fifteen only 15 minutes. So it's short and sweet and to the point. And I would say the thing advice I give people is don't underestimate your influence every day.
00:36:54
Speaker
Don't underestimate the influence you have with every person you run into. You can either make them feel better or worse and you can help them or not help them. And, uh,
00:37:06
Speaker
We certainly know that with children. Influences everything, role modeling. And don't yeah don't waste it. be me Try to be nice. As they say, use your talent for good.
00:37:18
Speaker
and we've got a lot of problems right now in the country where people are not a treating people respectfully. I don't care who they are. They're human. Lee, I appreciate you being here. I really appreciate you making the time when I sent you an email and you said yes. I was very happy. So thank you for joining me today. Thanks so much.