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The Run Testers Podcast | Running the Length of the Danube
355 Plays2 years ago
In the fourth episode of The Run Testers Podcast Tom, Nick and Mike talk about marathons, Kieran is back from his 1,848-mile journey running the length of the Danube, there's plenty of chat about the latest kit (including the Apple Watch Ultra, The Saucony Tempus, the Garmin Enduro 2 and the Puma Fast R Nitro Elite), plus lots of running facts.
Perfect for that Sunday long run.
To support Kieran on his Danube challenge head over to: https://donate.giveasyoulive.com/fundraising/runtheblue
This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Tracksmith. To find out more about their pop-up taking place in London from 30th September to 7th October click here: https://www.tracksmith.com/gb/pages/tracksmith-in-london
Listeners of the podcast can also head to https://tracksmith.com/runtesters22 to receive a free navy Van Cortlandt Singlet when spending over $150 online (Terms and conditions apply)
Big thanks to Fear of Tigers for the killer intro music. You can listen to more of his stuff over at https://www.patreon.com/fearoftigers
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Transcript
Introduction and Upcoming Marathons
00:00:05
Speaker
Hey, Tom here from The Runtestors and welcome to the September monthly podcast. This episode of the podcast is going to be a bit of a bumper edition because we have quite a lot to talk about. A lot of The Runtestors are doing marathons over the autumn so we've got a lot of kit to talk about that we're using in those marathons as well as the training.
00:00:21
Speaker
and prep we're doing for those races. At the point of recording this Nick was just about to head out to do the Berlin Marathon. He's now finished the Berlin Marathon with an amazing PV of 2 hours 28 minutes and 34 seconds. So it might be interesting to listen to what his thoughts are on the race before in this podcast knowing what time he actually ended up with.
00:00:43
Speaker
We've also got Keo back after his big challenge over in the Danube. He will be doing an interview with me talking about all the things that happened over the course of that two and a bit months and going through all of the things that were good and not so good about it.
00:00:58
Speaker
This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Tracksmith.
Tracksmith London Launch
00:01:01
Speaker
If you keep listening to the podcast, you're going to find out some very interesting news about Tracksmith finally coming to London, as well as a great offer for listeners and viewers of the podcast that take advantage of. Right, let's jump in and do the podcast.
00:01:28
Speaker
Okay guys, the fourth Run Testers podcast and I think it's safe to say that we've been quite busy this month because we've all got marathons coming
Nick's Berlin Marathon Strategy
00:01:38
Speaker
up. In fact, by the time this podcast goes out, I think Nick, you'll have done your marathon.
00:01:45
Speaker
Yep, Berlin this weekend, travelling out tomorrow. Just spoke to my coach, got my race plan. Maranoia is in full swing. I woke up with some bizarre, horrendous back pain this morning. I've had phantom knee pains. All the things the body does to try and make marathons a bit of fun, but I can now sit without wincing, so the back thing must have just been sleeping in a funny position. It doesn't sound ideal.
00:02:06
Speaker
You always seem to have a problem just for a marathon. I think it's the stress that gets to you. I think it's the body that just starts recovering. That's why I'm always paranoid about getting ill, because I'm not running so much. But this morning, my back hurt so much. I knew it was going to go away, but I was walking my daughter to nursery, and she was holding the arm on the side where my back was hurting. And she kept going, Daddy, look at this. And jumping up and down to set off her flashing shoes, yanking my arm and my back.
00:02:31
Speaker
Oh, I'll help. I don't need this right now, but it's feeling okay now. I'm more positive. My shoes are meant to be arriving soon for the race, so that's exciting. Exciting. What shoes? Going to go Vape Flies in the end, a massive about face. It's not my favorite marathon shoe, as I said before, but like I say, it's the one that's felt the best in recent weeks with just the lower drop shoes have been, the outflow is the one I was going to use, but lower drop shoes seems to be aggravating a bit of a cough.
00:02:54
Speaker
thing. And I haven't really got an eagle or an injury, but the vape fly has felt more natural to me in the last couple of weeks. I've just decided to go with my gut on that. So got some nice orange ones on that. Glad you finally made a decision because frankly, I'm bored of your debate going on for the past two months. Could still change it by the end of this podcast. I mean, they might not arrive and leave tomorrow, so then they'll be back into panic mode, won't it? Can't handle that. At least you're out of the country, so I won't hear much about it.
00:03:19
Speaker
So how are you feeling about Berlin? At the point of recording this, you've got three days to go until getting to the start line. How are you feeling? I feel really good. I'm not really going out for a very aggressive set time. I'm going out for a PB. I've got a very conservative start to the race in the first 10K. It's a classic thing my coach does. You kind of ease through the gears, which I think is a very good way to do the marathon because you can make up so much time in the last 10K marathon if you feel good.
00:03:44
Speaker
So yeah, plan as to that, ease into the race. I'm doing 3K splits. That's my new way of running marathons where I just pace a 3K split so I don't get too bogged down looking at the watch every lap kind of thing. Yeah, I feel quite good. I'm going to go in, kind of kick off around 340, ease down to 330 per K in the first 10 K-ish and try and...
00:04:01
Speaker
you know, move towards 325K and yeah, sit around there until 30K and then go for it last 12K or try and hold on or fall apart. You never really know. But I'm hoping for a nice PB and a very good week out and a very good few days out in Berlin either way.
00:04:16
Speaker
Well for once I know what you're talking about with marathon plans normally I just glaze over when you start talking about your detailed marathon pacing strategies. Yeah I mean you're going to get some proper Maranoia the week before your marathon this time because you know that won't be the case you won't be like the the Tom of old like nipping to the local McDonald's finding all the exciting local McDonalds. I'm already getting it I'm already getting um I'm sort of lying in bed at night thinking oh my what do I do what
00:04:38
Speaker
What should I do in that kilometre? Seriously, when you've invested a lot of trading time in, you want to do well on the day, but at the same time, I have blown up in marathons having gone very hard and trained very hard for them and it's not gone late, but I've still enjoyed them very nearly as much. So that's the beauty of marathons. You still have a good time and you come out feeling pretty happy, I find. So I'm not really worried about it.
00:04:59
Speaker
So not really thinking about London yet. London is just going to be a party for me. I can't wait for London because there's all the stuff in the build up here. That's nice about Berlin as you're not wrapped up in the build up. London is very intense because everyone's talking about it. Everything's going on. You're going to events all the time as a journalist. Berlin is very quiet. It's just by myself. I'm going to go out and do it and then just really enjoy the London atmosphere and then run quite relaxed with Jill and maybe a couple other people and have a good time.
00:05:22
Speaker
And is it run tester vest or are you using club colours? Club vest. I'll have my run tester vest on for shakeouts. Clubs, I have to wear my club vest at London because I've got a championship place. But Berlin would be my club vest as well. I think you've got to wreck your club on the big day. But I've also got a pretty nice new thing that I probably wear around Berlin as well from the tracksmith range. But club vest on the day, always. Oh, that's enough from you.
00:05:43
Speaker
Mike, you've not been on the pack cost for a while, so people are probably desperate to hear what you're up to. Hit us with the current race plans or whatever you're doing. Yeah, so obviously I have got Chicago,
Marathon Training Adjustments
00:05:59
Speaker
like yourself, Tom. I'm on the same plan as Tom as well, obviously the one-track app, which is kind of being run by Steph Twill.
00:06:07
Speaker
had to take a break from it, got COVID again. So that kind of knocked me out, I think probably three, three and a half weeks. So I've been able to resume that training. I've had to adapt to what I want to do for Chicago, but I know I can get him back up to the mileage that I need to be. I might have to adopt the Tom Wheatley plan and just go and eat McDonald's and try that. Great plan. Try and test it.
00:06:28
Speaker
So yeah, I know it's been good. It's been good. I feel a lot more confident in terms of, I mean, ultimately being to achieve a distance, get a decent time. I probably won't go as quick as I once did if I'd fully followed the plan I've been able to, but it's been good to resume the plan actually. You know, I have actually enjoyed it up until the point. I had to drop out for it for a bit, but being good. And you know, it's probably the toughest plan that I've used. Overall, I've actually really enjoyed having the regular, very kind of intense sessions, but I think intense sessions ultimately are going to pay off
00:06:56
Speaker
So yeah, that's kind of what I've got. Obviously, we've got myself and you, Tom, we are doing the Loch Ness 10K, which is a week before Chicago, which people probably wouldn't think was a smart thing to do. But I mean, I won't be going all out on that. But I'm actually looking forward to going out. I did the marathon a few years ago with Nick and Kieran and yeah, looking forward to doing the shorter one and just I haven't raced for a long time. So it'd be interesting to just see where my race legs are really from that point of view.
00:07:21
Speaker
Great marathon. Great marathon. Who was the fastest non-Kenyan that year? I don't think everybody cared. I don't think anyone cared, no. I think not worth mentioning, is it? Just gonna say, go look up the results. Lock this. Good Grace. People don't have time for that. No interest. They're no other winning ones. That's fine. Tick of the box.
00:07:40
Speaker
So, Mike, you're not a man to put times down because you don't like setting yourself a goal. Have you got a time in mind for Chicago or are you just seeing how it goes?
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah I think I see it goes. I get out on the start line and I think I'll quickly get a sense of where I'm at. I'm playing catch up in terms of I think the mileage is getting there but the actual the speed at kind of marathon distance I'm not 100% sure where I'm at. So you know I had an idea of maybe going 310 when I was starting that training. Probably it's definitely not going to be that but if I can get around to work towards what I got for
00:08:15
Speaker
Brighton and Berlin, so that's around 320. I'll be happy with that, but it's probably going to be a little bit slower than that. But I'll be absolutely fine to get around in the time. And I've kind of been deciding between what shoes I want to use, which has been interesting for me, because I thought it would be absolutely nailed on for the Metaspeed Sky Plus. But I think actually I've just done my longer, one of my longer runs in that shoe. And I think just because I'm not quite at my kind of usual marathon pace, and I find it a little bit more unstable in terms of when I have to slow down a little bit.
00:08:44
Speaker
I think I'm probably going to go with the endorphin pro three, just because I think it works a little bit better if I have to kind of rein it in a little bit, but also just got to copy me, haven't you? Yeah, it was definitely I was definitely tossing up between those two shoes. And I think if I was fully fit, I think I actually would still go for the Sky plus. But I think in terms of what I'm feeling for Chicago, I'm going to go with the pro three. I think I'm still going to have a good race in this shoe. And yeah, I think it would just suit me better in terms of how I'm going to approach the race.
00:09:12
Speaker
And now we turn to the local legend of Brighton, Tom Whitley, who has been sending us... Contable local legend. ...to the little park he runs around constantly. He's adopted the full Nick approach here of little laps. A million local legends you've got there, Tom. I've got about 15, but it's growing. I've got a couple more last night.
00:09:32
Speaker
Nobody's really messaged me to congratulate on or tell you I'm a local legend. What is Brighton's local paper? Are they going to be in that? I should imagine it'll pop up sometime soon. A multi-local legend. Have a wonderful year.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yeah, I'm getting quite a lot of kudos recently. People are really starting to buy into my one lap course of training. Yeah, I'm getting a bit bored of running laps of parks at the moment. It's impossible and brightened to train for a marathon because it's either big hills or it's the summer and there's too many people to run down the coast. So I've just gone around the park time and time again, because it's the only time I can do consistent pace training. But yes, I am feeling pretty good. I am going for a sub three at Chicago, as you well know.
00:10:18
Speaker
feeling pretty confident about it. Got my UME did the pressure half over in Essex last two weeks ago now I think, Nick.
00:10:27
Speaker
And I got my fancy new one hour, 23 minute PB. Fantastic PB. I was very excited. I saw you at the finish line. He looked a bit wrecked. He looked a little bit angry. And I thought, oh, is he not a good race? I didn't know what the time was. He was just so pumped with how fast he'd run. I mean, Tom always looks angry. You know, rain or shine, happy, sad. He always looks a bit angry. Well, I'm more after a few beers, but normally... Yeah. You were smiling in the pictures after.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah, because there was a guy running next to me who was trying to overtake me. It didn't spread finish. And he couldn't quite do it, so I was just laughing. I was smiling at someone else's misfortune, obviously. I was, yeah, I was enjoying that. That's my idea. That's because I got to the end of that race and I actually did feel pretty good. I think I could have gone on for longer.
00:11:18
Speaker
Yeah, I was pretty chuffed by the end of it, so yeah, it was an odd occasion where I'm smiling in a picture. I mean, Tom, you can very much run a sub-3, but it's going to be waylaid by the fact you are going to try and set PBs every distance along the way and refuse to accept that. That's not a good strategy. I'm not. I've got a strategy. I've got a strategy now. I've been mulling it over every night, because that, the pleasure half pace I went for,
00:11:40
Speaker
I was going to go for a 126 in that race. I was just trying to get a PB, but I just, every K, I just added a little, just went a little bit faster just to test it out and it worked. So I think I'm going to probably go out at 410 minute kilometers, but try and get it a little bit lower than that. And you're in the profile.
00:12:02
Speaker
Race doesn't start until 30k. Yeah, but I haven't got your endurance. So I'll get to 30k at that pace and I'll just start getting tired, even if I'm at five minutes. You've done more long runs than me this cycle, probably. Look, my strength is my sheer persistence and pain threshold. That's all I've got to play with. And I'm also going to be scared the whole way looking back to see if Mike's catching up with me.
00:12:25
Speaker
That would be funny, after all this training, God. Pretty funny, a whole Nike jump through. He'll blow himself out at the first 5K just to annoy me. Who's that in the pink shoes? I know who that is in the pink shoes. Same pink shoes as me, yeah. Pink shoes, too, this. So, yeah, that's looking good. Then, of course, Loch Ness. I think what I was going to be in Loch Ness is just do marathon pace and maybe
00:12:51
Speaker
slightly increase it throughout, just see how I feel. Ideally, I want to get to the end of the Loch Ness 10K feeling quite comfortable. I mean, that was fine. Not a problem. I could easily maintain it. I have many objections to this Loch Ness trip. Traveling right now is cold going around. And yeah, and even if you think is, even if it doesn't feel that comfortable.
00:13:08
Speaker
you can remember that your body knows when the end of the race is coming. So it will go, I was only 2k left. I'm starting to feel a bit tired. It always happens. So even if you go, Oh, that feels weird. It doesn't feel like I can maintain that from marathon actually comes to the day. It's a different matter. You've tapered your body will have different mental expectations. You'll have different mental expectations. And that does translate to physical tiredness for sure. I mean, I'm ignoring you.
00:13:33
Speaker
I respect Nick's thoughts on this but ultimately I want that can of soup so I will be back. I've instantly ignored anything Nick said and just thought about a can of soup now. As a Loch Ness podium man, it's hard to say.
00:13:48
Speaker
Look, if I get to Loch Ness and see any sort of evidence of you coming second in it, I will bow my head and do a social post about it. But I haven't seen you that nobody's going to mention it. I don't know if the statue's finished yet. It's weird. Yeah. Well, that's enough updates on our training. Let's jump into a fact. Running facts.
00:14:13
Speaker
Jump right in. And this is, I've got a couple of facts here. They're sort of joined up, but they're so pointless that I thought I'd better do two just to get your money's worth. So apparently three animals that are slower than humans.
00:14:27
Speaker
are an elephant, a squirrel, and a domestic pig. That doesn't really mean anything, does it? Which is the slowest. Yeah, I'm fairly certain I can't outrun a squirrel over 10 metres. Yeah, it depends on the distance. We're built for long distances. We can outrun a cheetah over, you know, five miles, I imagine. Yeah, so we're faster than any animal if you sort of account for
00:14:49
Speaker
Not birds. Yeah, but you wouldn't let a bird fly, would you? You'd have to walk. No, you'd have to fly. Birds walking. I'd really back myself against a bird made to walk. That kids look pretty nippy. Alright, and then a second part to this fact is animals that are faster than humans.
00:15:05
Speaker
I don't know who's, I think the person who's come up with this fact is quite biased, are a rabbit, a cat and a kangaroo. Not my cat. I don't think it's cats, I don't think it's cat and your cat. It is quite fast once every two months when it does something. Taz occasionally does see something she thinks she has to interact with and then we'll sprint across the, but when she starts running too fast, her back legs start coming past her front legs because she's so ungainly and like,
00:15:30
Speaker
chubby, so she can't run. Basically, eventually we'll just turn in a complete circle because she's so bad at running. So yeah, you can take Taz in any kind of distance. And then she takes two months off to relax. Yeah, she's very good at rest and recovery. The other thing about that fact is, I don't know why they've specified domestic rabbit, non-domestic rabbits quite slow. Surely they're faster. Domestic rabbits don't ever move, as far as I can tell.
00:15:57
Speaker
Yeah, okay, so complete nonsense then. I just forgot that fact. Okay, another one of those later. Right, let's talk running news, mainly kit this month because there's not a lot of news that we've been that interested in. In terms of races, the biggest thing that happened our side of the world was
00:16:25
Speaker
the Big Half. I knew
Mo Farah and Marathon Favorites
00:16:27
Speaker
a lot of people that took part in the Big Half this year. I've never done it. Of course, Eilish and Mo Farah, they were the two winners of it. Annoyingly, Eilish isn't doing London this year. I was quite looking forward to seeing her take on London, but that's not happening. But Mo is doing it.
00:16:44
Speaker
How do we think Mo is going to do at this London Marathon? I really don't know. Is that okay? Thanks for your insight, Nick. Yeah, it was really impressive at the big half, really impressive how he was running with Jack Smith. I think he's in a big bulky training block and wasn't tapering for the race, but he's still in absurd form the last couple of years and Farah did drop them really nice, really comfortably.
00:17:10
Speaker
like I say, Shane, not Caelish, it's all down to not being able to fuel. Do you know that? Really struggling to fuel one runs, so half is the top she can go because she doesn't have to fuel. Well, I can get lots of tips on that. Yeah. Farah's not going to be among the favourites at all, obviously, for London, because big names are coming over and he's
00:17:27
Speaker
He's never quite hit the absolute peak in the marathon. He's obviously won Chicago and he's done an amazing time, but he's a bit older now. So I think it's just a lovely chance to see him run around London, give him a big cheer. Obviously he had quite a turbulent year with the revelations about his past and that. So it'd be, I think, a very enjoyable event for him, but I'm not sure he's in winning form at London.
00:17:46
Speaker
Yeah, as you say, always a crowd pleaser.
Tom Evans' UTMB Comeback
00:17:50
Speaker
And then the other thing that happened over the month which is close to the podcast is UTMB. Mike, you are out there not doing the UTMB but just relaxing and occasionally doing a little bit of a run. So we had Tom Evans on in the podcast last episode and this was before he ran UTMB. He had no idea how he was going to do, nobody had any idea because he recently
00:18:15
Speaker
Fairly recently he came back from injury. He just started doing pretty well in events again, but it was a completely new race for him to take part in. And he came third in it, which was absolutely incredible to see behind Killian and Mattau Blanchard. So, you know, big news for that. So if you want to listen to what Tom had to say about his pre-planning for that event, then you can go back to the last episode and find out.
00:18:40
Speaker
how he thought he'd do because he wasn't entirely sure, so it's quite interesting to listen to. All right, let's talk a little bit. There's a few products that sort of popped up this month. One really important one, which we'll go into more depth to in the different gear section, but the Apple Watch Ultra, big, big release for Apple. You guys have been having a look at this.
00:18:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely a big one. I mean, obviously it is technically the biggest Apple watch that we've had. It's that, you know, they're very much pitching it at kind of endurance athletes, runners, outdoor, kind of lovers ultimately. So, yeah, it's, you know, myself and Nick and Kieran have all been testing it with Cher.
00:19:16
Speaker
kind of early impressions after some running with it, which is up on the channel now. And I think for me, I think it's been interesting that Apple has gone down the
Tech Gear for Runners
00:19:25
Speaker
street. They're obviously looking at what Garmin is doing in this space, definitely trying to tackle Garmin on this front. I think for me, it's an interesting one that they've gone for this market, ultimately. I guess we're gonna go dig into it a bit more into the... Yeah, I'll stop you there so that we can...
00:19:45
Speaker
To make people listen to the rest of the podcast, to find out more about it. And different gear, we'll delve into the details of your testing, just to see if it's worth taking a look at. And then we've got the new stride pod as well. I know nothing about this. Yeah, well, I think it's quite interesting. I think the timing of this is very interesting, basically, in terms of what Apple have kind of launched themselves. And obviously, people are familiar with stride. It's a foot running pod. I think the key things here
00:20:10
Speaker
that's new from this device is that it's claiming it's going to be more responsive in terms of tracking your running power. So, you know, give you that most accurate, most, you know, reliable running power metric. I think another thing that I found quite interesting is it's saying it measure the lower body stress, which is something a bit similar to what, you know, we've started to with polar claiming that would look a bit more, you know, your physical fitness and trying to give you a sense
00:20:34
Speaker
of how your body is recovering or to heavy load from your big running session. So I think that's a really kind of interesting direction that they're going with this, along with giving you all those metrics you expect from a stride pod and also improving the design. And yeah, I think, again, I think it's the timing of them doing a new one definitely feels connected to Apple releasing some features around advanced running metrics and running power as well.
00:20:59
Speaker
I think it's interesting for Strive. The two things they really sold a lot of units were known for was obviously running power, which lots of places are now doing from the wrist natively. It might not be quite as spot-on accurate, but it is a subjective measure anyway, so you can use it from different brands. And then pacing accuracy was always brilliant from Strive.
00:21:18
Speaker
I think a lot of dual band GPS devices out there, even for a nutter like me, who's really obsessed with pacing GPS, are good enough now. So I do think they are going to have to expand their niche a little bit, like you say, to try and win a new audience because watches have caught up to the things that they were doing very well before them.
00:21:33
Speaker
And you guys are testing this at the moment or are you just waiting? We'll be getting it. We'll be chasing it. I'm chasing it to get one in to have a look because I definitely think it's one that I'm probably going to look to test at Chicago against the Apple Watch and look at how those extra new metrics match up really. It sounds like you've got busy time in Chicago. I'm not even going to... I always run with my phone in my belt. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to try and share off any weight I can. I'm hoping you're taking your phone with you.
00:22:03
Speaker
Alright, let's finish this section with another running fact. Running facts! This is a...
00:22:12
Speaker
I don't even know where this comes from. Researchers have faith in these facts because we haven't got faith in them. You've got to be there. Well, I'm hoping one time I'm going to say when you're going to be like, that's fantastic. That's definitely true. It's never happened, is it? Researchers have found that the majority of runners will straighten up when an attractive runner of the opposite sex is coming towards them. A lot of issues with this fact.
00:22:33
Speaker
That is fantastic. That is a tremendous running fact. I'd like to know how they did that, how they decided, because they must have had to set up the attractive person, the people that were doing the running, where they're running, how they run, because some people probably run quite straight anyway.
00:22:55
Speaker
Sounds like gobbledygook if I'm honest on. Sounds fantastic to me. There's documentary on it. Well, it says researchers have done it. So it must be somebody somewhere must have done something with some level of integrity. But it also would suggest that there's a study that exists for that. So I might, I say I'll delve into it. I don't delve into these facts. I don't want to go into any more detail with them. Want to print out and read on the flight to Chicago, maybe.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah, I'll get some interesting looks from people sat next to me on that one. Okay, another one of those later.
00:23:34
Speaker
If you're into running and it's fairly likely that you are, if you're listening to this podcast, you've probably heard of TrackSmith. And TrackSmith is a brand that makes really nice running kits, an independent running brand that hails from Boston in the US. And that does mean that for us UK runners, it can be tricky to check out the kit and find out what it is you want to buy without just looking at the website.
00:23:54
Speaker
Luckily that's all about to change. Tracksmith are heading over to the UK to set up shop in London and they're going to be kicking that off with a pop-up that runs from the 30th of September to the 7th of October to coincide with London Marathon. That's going to take place at 23 to 25 Chilton Street over in Marleybone but there's much more to it than that because Tracksmith are going to be running a series of activations that run across the course of the week for runners that want to find out more about Tracksmith or join in the community.
00:24:21
Speaker
And there are some pretty impressive things that you can take part in over at the pop-up. If you click in the link below, you can find out more about those events happening. And if that's not enough, we've got a great offer from Tracksmith for anyone listening to the podcast or watching it on YouTube. If you head over to tracksmith.com forward slash runtesters22, you'll get a free Navy Van Cornlet singlet if you spend over $150 on the website. So if you click on the link below, you can have a look at the terms and conditions of that offer and
00:24:50
Speaker
get yourself a fantastic piece of race kit for future racers coming up. So Kieran, welcome back to the UK after, well let's start by just telling everyone how long you've been out there and what distance you did.
00:25:12
Speaker
Yeah, so I think I've been away for, the run was actually about 67 days, but I think in total I was away for sort of 70 to 74, 75 days. And in that time, I basically did the equivalent of probably, I think it breaks down to sort
00:25:27
Speaker
28 miles a day for the 67 days. So an average of a marathon distance or so every single day for that. The truth was that some of the days when I was doing this run along the Danube, from the sea in Romania to the source in Germany, through eight countries, through four capital cities, I actually ended up doing some runs that were smaller. My shortest run was 11 miles. My longest run I think was 44 and a half if I've got the numbers right. So I feel like I've been away forever. I'm just remembering how to be a normal human being again.
00:25:57
Speaker
Yeah, I was expecting you to take at least half an hour setting up your computer for this call. So impressed by that. So before we delve into the details of the massive Danube run, we should probably just mention the charities first, because I know we'll forget. So if we've just mentioned it now, we can get people to sort of put somebody into that and while they're listening.
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah, so I did it. I did it to raise money for generally kind of an umbrella of sort of poverty impacted children worldwide. And within that, I decided to choose five different charities, Save the Children, UNICEF. There's one called Starfish Great Hearts Foundation who do work with AIDS affected children in South Africa. Farah, a charity that works specifically with Romanian kind of projects. And then there was a breakfast club charity here in the UK who give children who can't otherwise afford it food so they can go to learn at school.
00:26:48
Speaker
on full bellies with their brains working better. So yeah, just doing basically trying to do something to help the most vulnerable people kind of worldwide have a kind of better chance of chasing their own dreams. Perfect. So if you're listening to this, and if you go to the link in the podcast notes or in the caption, you'll be able to find a link to Kieran's charity page. So give generously while you're listening to this this this podcast.
00:27:10
Speaker
Okay, so let's just suppose for the listeners that haven't heard about what you're doing or don't know the details of it, what exactly was the Danube Challenge? Yeah, so I set out to basically then actually become the first person ever to run the Danube River in Europe.
00:27:26
Speaker
from the Sian Romania to the source in Germany. It's approximately, let's say, it was on paper, it was going to be around 2000 miles. I had a window of around 70 days to do it. I left the day after my son's birthday and I had to reach Germany and the source of the Danube where the Danube rises.
00:27:43
Speaker
by the 30th of August for my wife's birthday and also get back in time to get, you know, return to doing all the school run duties and all those kind of things. So I was in a kind of tight window, bit of a tight timeframe. Along the way, I was carrying all my own kit, everything I needed to be self-sufficient. So I had around 10 to 12 kilos on my back at any one point, a bivvy sack, sleeping bag, you know, sleeping mat, all of those things that I could have used to camp.
00:28:08
Speaker
and Wildcat will come on to what happened with that later and essentially just trying to cover distances anywhere between, you know, it was anywhere between kind of 11, 12 miles up to kind of 45 miles daily, moving through Romania, Bulgaria,
00:28:22
Speaker
Croatia, Serbia, Hungary, Austria, Germany, and Slovakia. Not in that order. Quite a nice tour, then. A few countries. All the way across Europe. Well, listeners won't know that you've been talking about this challenge for, I think, years now. I seem to be talking to me about this quite a long time ago. It's always been something you've wanted to do. One, why did you want to do it? And two, why now?
00:28:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of started. The seed was planted probably a decade or more ago. I was sat in Vienna having coffee with someone who was from Vienna with another person who was from Belgrade, two cities on the Danube. And the person from Vienna said, if I put a message in a bottle and threw it into the river, said this to the person from Belgrade, you could fish it out in six or seven days time. And this is how we communicate.
00:29:09
Speaker
And it was just a really nice idea, this sort of idea sort of stuck in my head of this river that connects so many different countries, different people, different cultures. It's like the lifeblood of Europe. And it just stayed with me. And then, you know, fast forward a few years, I was looking for a challenge that would really push me really way outside of my comfort zone. I've done a few different things like the marathon to Saab. I'd run a half marathon every day in December in 2013. I've done a bunch of ultras.
00:29:37
Speaker
lots of city marathons and I wanted something that was going to be a bit different and I kept coming back to this idea of the Danube and I googled kind of how long is the River Danube, it came back and said about 1700 miles or so. I divided that by the marathon distance
00:29:52
Speaker
And the answer I got was 67 days. And I thought, this is just the right side of crazy. I kind of say it sort of like a possible impossible. You look at it and you go, I don't know if I can do it, and it will be hellish difficult. But it's actually not beyond the realms of possibility. And then after a bit more research, I realized that I couldn't find any record of anyone having done it before. And that really sealed the deal for me, the idea that I could do
00:30:17
Speaker
There's a chance here to do something that hasn't been done before, a world first, and also do it obviously for charity, raise money, and it kind of ticked all the boxes and I couldn't let the idea go. Then obviously the pandemic swept in and I think that really kind of crystallized, gave me the impetus because you never know what's going to happen around the corner and that really fired me up to set a date and go and have a crack.
00:30:40
Speaker
So if you can remember back to before you left for the Janoop, what were the things that you were most concerned about with doing taking on the challenge? I think the one thing, the furthest I'd run before going out was I did seven marathons in seven days in my kind of building, kind of training build up.
00:30:57
Speaker
And I didn't really know what would happen beyond seven days to the body. So there's kind of a fear that you get overuse injuries. Lots. I was worried that the tendons would go, you know, Achilles, you know, the tendons down the outside of the knees into the foot, all of those kind of things just from overuse. They really don't know how the body would respond. And then obviously, there's all the kind of logistical things about kind of have you picked roots that are safe? Are you going to be safe from humans? One of the big things that I found in my research is lots and lots of reports of wild dogs and stray dog attacks and
Kieran's Charity Run Challenges
00:31:27
Speaker
problems within kind of Romania and Bulgaria and that was a huge fear for me about how I'd have to cope with that. I think the other thing you know we're looking at through sort of Europe in this kind of mid-summer temperatures can rise as high as kind of 40 degrees they're often well over 25 so how I would cope with the heat you know could I get enough fuel on board and I think I guess generally just being you know most of this I'm going to go out and run solo so I'm also thinking about
00:31:53
Speaker
You know, am I capable of doing this kind of on my own? You feel sort of quite vulnerable and quite exposed when you get out there. So I had all of these things kind of swimming around in my head. Would my kit hold up right? Would I pick the right pair of shoes? You know, everything sort of becomes quite important when you're setting off literally with what you're wearing and a very small amount of kit in a backpack. If all that stuff's gonna work, will the backpack survive the distance? Those kinds of things work.
00:32:18
Speaker
big kind of things on my mind initially. So now you've been back for a few weeks, we've sat watching Netflix, looking back at your actual the time you spent out there, what were the things that really worked off about it? So the surprising thing for me really was after initial kind of on the first four or five days,
00:32:38
Speaker
things that you would expect happen to happen happen to, you know, my feet listed up. And I've got a bit of a problem with my little toe where if I do long distances, it sort of dehoods itself, which is rank, but that that that started to happen on day three. I mean, I put in big miles in the first
00:32:55
Speaker
three days. I think I'd done like 120, 110 miles in the first three days or something because of the distances between places you could stay within Romania. It was quite wild and quite far apart. So I had to cover those distances. So my feet were in ruins after day three or four and I had this real kind of fear that I was going to have to head home
00:33:13
Speaker
really having told everyone what I was going to do that really early what actually happened I treated those you know I basically took a kit out to treat the blister so I would use a syringe to drain them I use iodine or single fryers balsam to clean them and I'm really meticulous about
00:33:28
Speaker
every little detail about sort of treating problems really early and after the five or six seven days everything really kind of settled down and the surprising thing from then on in was really how well the body coat not only with the the distances I was putting in but from that kind of impact on much of what I was running was quite hard compacted ground or tarmac and the physicality of it actually was far easier than the psychological factors that came in with
00:33:56
Speaker
Initially in Romania, basically dealing with wild dogs, I encountered many, many, many stray dogs within the towns and in the wild, a mixture of farm dogs, stray dogs, and also guard dogs that weren't chained and basically trained to be super aggressive. So for much of the early part of
00:34:16
Speaker
Romania, I felt like I was running on high alert in fear, you know, it was, and I hadn't really expected that to be as difficult as it was, it was actually psychologically really, really hard, you know, it's very, very draining emotionally, if you're running through towns, and every time you get to a town, you have to stop, you have to walk through the town, you're looking at all the gates, you're looking to check what dogs might come from where and whether or not they're going to be aggressive or not. When you're surrounded by them, most of them weren't a problem. But on a couple of occasions, I had some quite serious encounters and
00:34:46
Speaker
it just leaves you feeling drained at the end of the day. So I think that was a bit of a surprise for me, feeling in danger, basically. I hadn't really expected to feel in danger, certainly not from animals. Do you remember the point where that fear disappeared? Was there a point where you thought, well, I'm clearly safe now?
00:35:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think when I crossed over from across the border from Bulgaria into Serbia, initially, I met lots of people at this amazing campsite who were cycling. I was running upstream, so I went from the sea to the source. Most people do this on bikes. There's lots of cycle tourists who do the first leg basically between Germany and Serbia. Not so many people go on to the sea, but I met lots of people who had come downstream and I asked them. The first question I was asking was like, what are the dogs like in Serbia?
00:35:35
Speaker
many of them said well they're just as bad but you know having run sort of three or four of the stages in Serbia I realised this problem it didn't go away completely but it calmed down it quietened down and as you went further west there were still dogs but many of them were behind gates and yeah I remember kind of running through Serbia and Serbia was a mixture of fewer dogs
00:35:56
Speaker
I think nicer trails that were close to the river. And then I had this amazing hospitality and kindness from strangers in Serbia that by the time I left Serbia, I felt like a completely different runner. I felt much more relaxed. And then as you head further west, I didn't listen to music for the first four weeks in the early countries because I didn't feel safe doing so. Further up, that became a possibility.
00:36:21
Speaker
Well, let's move away from the negative aspects of it. Let's talk about the high points. What things happened on the journey or what points of the journey did you really think this is fantastic? This is an amazing thing to do. Yeah, I mean, I think throughout really, although there were obviously negatives in Romania with the dogs and that, there were still moments that were wonderful. There's lots of
00:36:45
Speaker
There were times when I was waking up. I got into a rhythm of waking up at four in the morning. I would have my breakfast. I'd basically leave wherever I was staying by six and start running in order to beat the midday heat. I basically had to try and get done by one or two o'clock before you started to hit kind of 35 degrees.
00:37:02
Speaker
I got into this really lovely rhythm and it often means I was out even running main roads through sunflower fields and these big mass agricultural kind of plantations of wheat and sunflowers everywhere in those early days but I get the sunrises in these places all to myself and you literally felt like you know the only person traveling through and it was it was really really magical and I guess those those moments of
00:37:25
Speaker
beauty were found all the way up through the river. You know, there were real highs of running through the iron gates and the Diorda National Park in Serbia, which is where the river narrows to its kind of, it shrinks to its narrowest point and its deepest point. And you feel, so it's just this kind of beautiful, epic landscapes. But I think really if I, if there's one sort of standout thing that I take from all the way along, it's these moments where strangers came out and just did something for me, often kind of completely unplanned.
00:37:53
Speaker
these moments of kindness whether as I had kind of Romanian truck drivers handing me two litres of water out of their cabs or had people handing me fruit sellers from the side of the road handing me peaches and as I ran past as if it's like a marathon aid station and then a couple of times I had runners who had found me on instagram and they just arrived on the side of the road you know I had one guy Dimitar in Bulgaria who arrived I was having the worst day
00:38:17
Speaker
and his timing of his arrival on the side of the road. He pulled up in a car ahead of me, got out, and I saw this guy just walking back towards me. My initial thought was, oh, God, what's going to happen here? And I looked a bit closer, and he was waving something, and I saw it as a bottle of water. And I realized that he was a runner, and he just found me on the side of the road, came with water, Haribo, and then ended up crewing me for four days with a car through Bulgaria and helping me over some of the biggest and most difficult mileage.
00:38:45
Speaker
He was also a big comfort because he was local. He knew a bit more how to deal with the dogs, you know, throw that forward. I had a similar experience in Serbia with a guy called Milos, who came out and crewed me for three or four days in northern Serbia. Let me stay. You know, he invited me back to stay with his family. They fed me, you know, they washed my kit. They gave me a bed to stay for the night and just made me feel like I was a member of their family. It was wonderful. There's all these moments that the foundations of this whole run are built on those acts of kindness. There's no way
00:39:14
Speaker
I look back, I think I don't make the distance. There are some real key timing points that these people arrived to offer me the support that were crucial. It made a difference between me making it and not. It was just wonderful to have this chain of friendliness and kindness all the way up along the river. Amazing. Definitely, probably
00:39:35
Speaker
preferential to running across some sort of unpopulated outback where there's no people at all. At least you've got something to keep you going. Let's talk a little bit about fueling. I saw a lot of social posts while you're out there with some quite questionable fueling strategies going on. And for the listeners, Kieran's fueling is normally very, very planned out.
00:39:58
Speaker
you know, exactly sort of fuel you want. How did you feel? What did you feel like having to sort of scrape around trying to find substitute fueling solutions for your run? Yeah, I mean, I could only take carry so much. So I sent, I had some fuel, which was kind of classic kind of running fuel bits of, I had sort of precision fuel and hydration. I had some of their chews, which are easy and portable. I had some 33 shakes, which I relied on for replacement breakfast because there was times I couldn't
00:40:25
Speaker
find breakfast easily in the morning if things were shut or whatever, but I could only carry so much of that. So I got resupply packages sort of sent along the way and brought out, but literally could sort of take about two kilos max of food. So that would run out fairly quickly. And then I would be looking in shops and petrol stations and bakeries and I ate all sorts. I really quickly dropped into this sort of process whereby during a run, if I walked into a shop, if something caught my eye and my mind said,
00:40:53
Speaker
I fancy if I've got a craving, I'd eat it, I'd stick it in the face. So I had also like pastries, I had sort of savoury pastries. I ate an awful lot of kind of fruit filled, kind of strudel type, kind of apple turnover. I had all kind of made, you know, I tried different random chocolate bars. One thing that I didn't realise was fizzy water. I accidentally bought a bottle early on on one of the really hot days in Romania.
00:41:18
Speaker
plugged it and for some reason sparkling water in that kind of hot environment quenched my thirst way better than still water and i think sometimes when you're running with still water for long periods of time you can get it gets a little bit you get bored or you get a little bit of i don't know i can only drink stomach so much of it so i have still water in my bottles and hydration salts and then every time i stopped at a shop i'd grab a sparkling water or sometimes i'd do like a fruit juice and sparkling water mix to get a bit of
00:41:45
Speaker
sugar and a bit of hydration. And that was a revelation that really worked a treat. And I'll take that back into any ultra I do. But I mean, I ate all sorts. One of the at one point I stopped 17 miles into a marathon in Austria and had a full on chicken schnitzel. Yes, I saw quite good. I was quite jealous of that.
00:42:03
Speaker
I mean, only because I sat in a cafe and I had a drink and I saw other people, cyclists, around me eating them. And again, the brain just said, oh, I fancy that. So I thought, why not? How long did you have to run for after eating that? I think I did about six or seven miles. And I ran those six or seven miles faster than I did the first set that day. So maybe top tip for anyone who's out there looking for a bit of a speed boost in trading.
00:42:27
Speaker
Well, that leads me on to, is there anything, any surprising foods or drinks that you picked up on your journey and you just want more of it now, you've become addicted to it?
00:42:38
Speaker
Yeah, there's another, the one thing that I don't think they do it here, I've not seen it, but in Austria and Germany, they do something called apple sherler. And it's essentially, it's spritzed apple juice, right? Apple juice and fizzy water, pre-bottled, pre-mixed. And it's, it's absolute magic. Like when you're, again, it just gives you that hit of sugar and that sort of hydration. And that was something I kind of became hooked on. I'd get, you know, so at that point, I sort of had some crew with me at times and I'd get cross if they hadn't found some.
00:43:07
Speaker
when I came in. Where's my Apple Sherlock? But yeah, again, just, I don't know, it just worked, you know, it was just, it hit right. So that was really good. Nice. And let's just quickly delve into, let's not go into all your kit, because I'm sure you're going to be covering that in various ways. But let's talk about your shoes. The shoes are obviously a massive factor and it took you a while to decide what you're going to wear. What did you go for in the end?
00:43:33
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, after much kind of testing, I decided to go initially with the Saucony Endorphin Speed 2, basically, because they're the right mix of kind of comfort and balance. And I knew they could do a bit fast, but they can also handle slow. And I knew I wouldn't get any blisters or have too much trouble from them.
00:43:50
Speaker
I ran about i think i ended up running eight hundred miles or something in that first pair and then whilst i was out on the run the speed three came out and obviously they're a bit wider there's a bit more cushioning and i got some sent out and i switched from the speed two to the speed three and then i ran the rest of it in two pairs of the speed three so three pairs of shoes in total
00:44:10
Speaker
i think i did the most over mileage in that one pair of speed twos and then i did about 600 and 500 or something in the other speed threes actually the speed threes were just just right there were bang on you there was just enough cushioning a little bit more stability i was going to say the speed threes are perfect shoot because you've got quite wide feet haven't you so that it's almost like they've designed a view
00:44:31
Speaker
Yeah and it stopped you know I mentioned earlier that that problem I have where my toes are a bit squished together and I can sort of get put a bit of pressure into the hood in the speed three had no trouble with that interestingly the speed twos I had to do some walking during this run when I rock back on my heels
00:44:47
Speaker
because the Speed 2 have got a little raised sole, but it seemed to rub my heels a bit. And I was suffering more with blisters when I walked and when I ran. That also went away with the Speed 3. And from the day I put on the Speed 3, they basically just vanished on the foot. I didn't have to worry about them at all whatsoever. The durability was pretty solid as well. I mean, I've got one
00:45:08
Speaker
shoe it's you know this is my my second pair and yeah the back heels are a bit scuffed up but these are still good to run in. Nice and were they the only shoes you took with you did you have any sort of walking shoes or comfort shoes with you? I didn't I had to I basically just had to have one pair at a time which meant the worst part of that is that because your socks the shoes stink right after they really stink I mean it's hotel room kind of clearing stink
00:45:36
Speaker
And then I had one pair of running socks and I had one pair of socks for my evening wear socks. The minute you put the evening wear socks in those shoes, it's toast for them as well. They stink as well. Evening wear socks sounds probably a little bit fancier than what you were probably doing in the evenings. People have probably imagined you wearing a suit or something. I literally had one pair of trousers. I didn't even have any pants.
00:45:57
Speaker
So I didn't take any any boxer shorts. I ended up having to invest. I got like into in Bulgaria, invested in what I call my Bulgarian swim shorts, which were like a cheap pair of Lotto Lotto Italian brand kind of terrible looking shorts, which became like they were my kind of evening wear as well. So I'd have to I went out in some questionable gear when I went to the supermarket to get my food and stuff after I've done the run.
00:46:19
Speaker
Have you kept them or have they been burnt now? No, they're still here. I've still got all my kit. I've got all the artifacts, including I picked up a rock in Romania, which was like a rock to throw at dogs if they came and attacked you. I ended up carrying that all the way along the Danube and I've still got it now. Very nice. It's my dog, Rock. All right, then let's just talk about... So you've been back for two or three weeks now?
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah, just over a fortnight. Yeah. What's what's it been like coming back? You've been you've been gone for quite a while. What was it like adjusting to coming back to UK life? It's been really, it's been really hard, actually. Again, you know, the reentry, it's taken me a while to sort of get back into kind of workload and actually working, but even just coming back and being in the house and
00:47:03
Speaker
normal kind of family life, you know, being a dad, going and playing football in the park and doing all of those things. My life on the Danube was so simple, you know, all I had to think about really was myself, I'd get up and I'd have, I'd move, but I'd finished my, you know, doing the run, I'd always, you'd get this kind of release of endorphins and happy chemicals and you'd have these, you know, I was tired in the afternoons and my, the time went really quick, you know, I went out there thinking I'd have loads and loads of time,
00:47:28
Speaker
But actually, by the time you've been to the supermarket, done something social media stuff, chat to a few family members on the phone, wondered about it was done, you know, that you're running again. But it was a really simple existence. And I think you'd only realize how simple I didn't have to make many decisions, really, you know, route decisions and bits and pieces running. But afterwards,
00:47:47
Speaker
No decisions about what I was wearing or where I was going, you know. So when you come back and all of a sudden there's this, you know, real life comes back. It's quite a, you realize just how frenetic your everyday life really is. And that's been a bit tricky. Running, I've been out and I ran a marathon about a week ago. So probably I think about 11 days after I came back, I ran the new forest marathon.
00:48:09
Speaker
And I wanted to see, because I've done all of this low and slow, essentially my runs were like recovery runs out there. I was running very low heart rate and I feel like I'm as fit as I've ever been. So I wanted to see if I could run a quick marathon. And I went and did a 310 marathon on a course, which is like an off-road sort of trail course. And I think knocked about 20 minutes off my fastest time on that course. So, yeah, I mean, I just think from a point of view, it sort of changed my thoughts about
00:48:38
Speaker
what I maybe have to do in order to run quicker marathons. I think building more really kind of really slow easy stuff into my marathon training.
00:48:45
Speaker
Yeah. I was going to ask you about that. People listening now thinking, oh, so to train for a marathon a day to do a marathon a day for the best part of two months. Maybe that's a bit too far. But no, definitely I saw that time. I was very surprised to see that actually based on what you've been doing. But you clearly give your legs enough time to adapt and acclimatize to all the training you've been doing.
00:49:15
Speaker
dive into the next bit, which is what's next? Are you going to focus back on races or is there a new challenge? You must have been thinking about new challenges you could do while you're out there. Yeah, I mean, there's a couple, you know, I can't, my family don't want me to go anywhere for a while. So I don't know. I mean, there's one, they've just put in the finishing touches of a cycle path around Lake Garda in Italy, which looks absolutely stunning. And it's about 100 miles around the lake. And I think at some point I would love to go and run that in
00:49:42
Speaker
you know, two or three days or four days or something, maybe do something a little bit more leisurely where you could stop off. That's one thing that's kind of got my interest. I think now having done the New Forest Marathon, I'd quite like to put in a little bit of interval training to get a bit of speed up and see if I can do
00:49:58
Speaker
a couple of personal bests at shorter distances. But beyond that, I'm actually just one commitment I've made to myself is that act of moving every day was such a powerful thing. It made me feel so good about, you know, everything generally that one promise I've made to myself is just I'm going to move in the morning and crucially, I think in the morning.
00:50:18
Speaker
every day and whether that's running a couple miles or even walking a bit going steady and slow and you know just but making sure I make time to have that movement because I think for for my mental health and I think just you know my physical fitness and everything I just think it came away from the Danube feeling like it was giving me such a sort of powerful kind of platform and I don't really want to lose that so
00:50:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's something I'll focus on as well. Okay, and now you're back. Now you've had a bit of time to sort of think about everything and compartmentalize all your learnings. Is there anything if you were to go back again and start the whole process again from planning to doing it to coming back? Is there anything that you think I definitely do that differently? Yeah, I mean, I
00:51:00
Speaker
I think I probably wouldn't necessarily carry all the self-sufficiency kit. You know, so my camping gear, I mean, it was nice that I had the option to camp and stop and sleep wherever I needed to. And so, you know, carrying that I think was important for confidence. But in reality, very early on, I realized because of the tension and the pressure during the day and running on high alert that
00:51:21
Speaker
I needed a place of sanctuary and having a bed in a cheap hostel or Airbnb or whatever it was, even sometimes in kind of wooden huts on campsites, was a huge deal. I needed that sanctuary. I needed that for the recovery. So I think I'd go out initially with the plan of doing that and maybe I would
00:51:41
Speaker
You know, it would make sort of planning that accommodation a little easier as I went. And in terms of like the training you did beforehand, it sounds like you didn't need to do anymore. You were ready to go. You adapted as you went.
00:51:54
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I went in undercooked, I guess, sort of slightly underfit and built as I went into it. And it seemed to work. It's something that I've done before when I did the marathon de Saab. And I think, you know, there's a temptation maybe when you're doing these things that you think I'm going to I should go and try and do the mileage that I'm going to do, whether you're doing like a seven day multistage or, you know, a big ultra. And actually, sometimes I think that's a bit it puts you into those race or those challenges tired. And
00:52:23
Speaker
I know I kind of know that I've got the mental tools to run a marathon and get through the suffering. And I kind of knew that I'd be able to grow into it. You know, yeah, I don't know. I think in all honesty, Tom, I think it went as well as I could really have hoped I, I feel very lucky that I
00:52:40
Speaker
that things didn't go wrong. If I went out and did try to do it the same again, you know, on a fresh body, who knows, a tendon might just go. But I was lucky. I was able to manage different bits, different niggles and problems that did arise. I managed to hold them. So yeah, I feel like everything worked really well. I'm a lucky boy, really.
00:53:00
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. There were many things that could have happened that, well, you seem to be going swimmingly. I think I only saw a few social posts where there were some issues, but there weren't things that stopped you. You sort of delayed the distance some days, didn't you, slightly, based on how you're feeling and then moved it to the next day.
00:53:18
Speaker
Yeah, there were some times when I knew I had to, yeah, particularly this is where kind of people coming out and crewing me helped. If someone arrived and they had a car, all of a sudden I didn't necessarily have to make it between the two places where there was accommodation, sort of civilization, I could break that distance and we could drive back to my finishing point. And it meant at times that I could avoid doing the, some of the runs I had were like 44 miles and I'd break them down over two or three days.
00:53:42
Speaker
into you know did 90 miles instead of in two days i'll do over three or whatever there's one crucial point where i had a bit of a quad issue and i somehow because i had this guy marianne who came out to crew in bratislava and again another one just appeared on the side of the road and came to help it meant i was able to essentially rehab quite a quite a sort of problematic quad injury over three or four days whilst also still running or moving 30 miles a day which is
00:54:11
Speaker
nuts but it meant I could stop when my legs started to hurt, get in the car and come back you know so yeah it was
00:54:18
Speaker
times I had to be sensible and smart about them not necessarily sticking entirely to the plan but it worked. Okay and finally there's probably a lot of people, a lot of runners that have been watching your journey are listening to this thinking oh I'd absolutely love to do something like that but maybe they haven't done anything like it before they don't really know where to start. What sort of advice would you give to would be
00:54:43
Speaker
long distance adventure ultra runners that want to try something like this, but really are at a point where they've never experienced it before.
00:54:50
Speaker
I think the most important thing is that you've got to realize that before I went and got into this, there's over a decade's worth of building blocks that I've put in place to get to a point where I could even envisage going and running this. And you can't rush it. You have to put those blocks in place. And most of those actually are psychological and mental rather than necessarily even the physical. It's about how you're going to build up the tools to deal with the suffering and the
00:55:15
Speaker
when things go wrong and working through pain and all of those things come with time. So my advice is you've just got to take it step by step and add little bits at a time. My challenges have been quite incremental in terms of what I've done and how I've built them up to this point. And yeah, so that would be my advice. Take it steady. You've probably got time to build and just pick off
00:55:38
Speaker
little bits at a time as you get kind of bigger and bigger in the challenges that you take on. And it will make that next step not seem quite so huge and you'll be well prepared for it. Brilliant. Well, I think that's covered pretty much everything. I know you've got plenty of stuff over on the Manby Miles YouTube channel talking about each. Have you got video through each day? Most of them I did, yes. If you want to go back and relive the whole thing, there's like 67 videos that show the sort of daily journey and how I changed throughout.
00:56:08
Speaker
And I think for the run testers, I've got upcoming stuff that I'm going to look at. I'll do a pack review of the Instinct XX pack that I took for the whole journey, which is quite a new pack that some people might not have seen. And I'm going to do a little bit of a comparison of the Speed 2 with the Speed 3s that I used over those 500, 600 miles as well.
00:56:26
Speaker
And yeah, so there'll be more content from sort of the kit that I use coming up on this channel as well. Yeah, you're really pushing the durability testing to the limit. Don't normally get that opportunity. Cool. Well, thanks a lot, Kieran. And we will, well, back to normal business soon when you've actually got around to testing some new shoes and. I've got big piles of shoes waiting together. The thing is, I'm a little bit worried about, I haven't put on another pair of shoes
00:56:53
Speaker
I can't get out of my speed threes. I'm a little bit nervous about putting on different keys, but the pile is there. So, yeah, back to business. Well, we'll catch soon. See you later, mate. Cheers. See you later.
00:57:09
Speaker
Right then guys, the meat of the podcast. Everybody is here for, apart from the running facts, different gear. And we've got a lot of gear to talk about this time because we've been testing a lot of stuff that's been popping up and some of it's very interesting. So I think the first thing we, the biggest thing we've done over the past month is the best carbon shoes video. So if you're listening to this, you can watch that full video. And it's a big one. I think it's about 30 minutes, 40 minutes? 50 minutes.
00:57:39
Speaker
50 minutes of carbon shoes, so a few interesting carbon shoes. And we cut a lot out as well. Please, please, please watch it because Nick's put a lot of time into that video. He's put a lot of time into moaning about it. What's up? So I've had going, oh god, I've got to do this now, I've got to do that.
00:57:57
Speaker
If you're not telling me about these in the edit, please don't comment on them because it was too much. I'm not a skilled videographer and editor. I just had to get it up and I got it up and that's all that really matters, isn't it? It exists and it's on YouTube. So what were, give us a bit of a sneak peek, Nick. What were the, what was the sort of top three commonplace shoes?
00:58:19
Speaker
Well, what with this video we do is we really go through all of them, all the kind of top racing options from every brand. And it's, we give a bit of obviously give our opinions and talk about ones are our favorites, but we're gonna do a separate video just not actual favorites after this marathon season, I think to say how they went in actual races, but we really try. It's almost like a Catholic used to be, you know, 20 minutes, you go for all the carbon shoes, and it was brilliant. All the ones we tested and we give you insights into all of them. So you know which one might suit you best. But now there are like 40, 50 carbon shoes. And
00:58:46
Speaker
We did cover nearly all of them, but there was something we had to cut out, like more of the training focused ones and stuff like that. But yeah, so really we've gone through basically with shoes. So from Nike all the way to sketches and just everything in between. And we've given you why you should buy them or why you should avoid them. Which ones are good for different types of races, different kinds of runners. There's a new extended trail running section now because there's more carbon shoes in that area.
00:59:10
Speaker
it really hopefully if you're thinking about buying a carbon shoe you can go and look at just that section and get a bit more info on it but really you should watch the whole 51 minute video to really get the true effect of it. The little sections with Tom are all filled in one stint so you can probably notice when we start to tire towards the end but yeah do go watch all of it it's really really well done.
00:59:30
Speaker
Yeah, I find with the complex shoes, what's cropping up quite a lot at the moment, especially in the comments that we get on the channel, there's people going, which is best this shoe or this shoe? And it's you can't really see in the old days of five complex shoes, you could probably say this is the best complex shoe. But now they're all designed for something different. And you can't really compare like the Puma Faststar against something that's designed like the Saucony Endorphin Pro 3 because they're completely different use cases.
00:59:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's almost impossible to compare the two for people who just say which is the best because you know, we just prefer the one
01:00:05
Speaker
Also, our opinions will check. Also, just situation shows, I'm using the Vapolite for Berlin. I don't really believe it is my best car, but it's the one I think is suiting me best right now and suits me best in the style of runner I am. I think there's a lot of that to consider as well. I don't have problems with instability, but I've got a shuffly gate and things like that. We try and cover off lots of different areas like that, but I mean, if you do want a simple answer, the best one is the Vapolite. It's by the Vapolite. It's the cheapest probably.
01:00:30
Speaker
I think the objectively best carbon plate shoe is the V overfly. The general use. Yeah, I mean there's now enough runners who seem to like using it that it's pretty safe one to recommend. All right, well, speaking of carbon plate shoes, we've been testing and haven't finished testing yet a new one from Puma, which is the Puma Fast R Nitro Elite. I think it's just me and Nick who've got this, Mike, isn't it? Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, I've not got that yet. The pirate shoe.
01:00:57
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, you're a big fan of that joke, aren't you? This is every time we bring up the shoe. You can't help the same past hour. You can't just pull it faster. I just added in the missing bits because I'm so used to it. So that shoe, I've been doing a lot of interval sessions in it for marathon training plan, but you actually raised place your half in this shoe, didn't you, Nick?
01:01:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good shoe. It's a really nice shoe. It's got a strange setup with a decoupled midsole. It's got a very snappy ride. The transition's lightening. You've got a firmer EVA heel section at the base that throws you onto the softer foam on the forefoot there. Yeah, I really enjoy it. I was surprised actually how comfortable it was over the half marathon. I don't think I'd go to full marathon distance myself, but as a heel striker, I'm using probably the more of that snap and maybe if you land more forward on the shoe, towards the forefoot, it's a bit more comfortable landing on that PBAC's foam.
01:01:48
Speaker
Yeah, I do think it was really good. It is probably the least versatile carbon shoe I've come across in that it is not a lot of fun to just jog around in at all. But I think as a racing shoe, it's pretty great. I think the problem is Puma's got a great racing shoe that no one's had a chance to use that much, the DV8 Nitro Elite, and that's cheaper, lighter, potentially one I'd look at first before the fast arm. How about you? You've been enjoying it though, Tom, right?
01:02:09
Speaker
I like it. I'm struggling to find what I'd use it for. I definitely wouldn't use it for anything over 10K. When I first... I did a couple of runs in it, which were like marathon pace. Didn't really like it for those just because...
01:02:23
Speaker
I'm so used to running in something softer bouncy like Vapefly or the Pro 3, a Dolphin Pro 3. But since I've been using it for shorter distance stuff and intervals, and I'm a bit, I'm a more of a mid foot to four foot striker, especially when I'm running fast. I can really see, it feels quite nice at those. I can run quite fast in it. I feel quite comfortable in it, but yeah, not versatile. And I still struggle with that heel. Even for me, I can feel it sometimes when I land and it just feels a bit uncomfortable. It doesn't really work for me.
01:02:51
Speaker
Yeah, it is quite stable though, that also that moment I've been saying this recently, I've been craving a little bit of extra stability the moment on tired legs and it did work very well in the plushy half, not going all out pace in that race. Okay, so from complete full out ratios to cushion shoes with a little bit of stability, the Saucony Tempest, another shoe from Saucony that we've been testing quite a bit race recently. I absolutely, I'm loving this shoe. It's one of this sort of new age of,
01:03:20
Speaker
you know, the older stability shoes, things like the car, gelcano range and stuff, they, you put them on, you go running. Instantly, you notice a stability shoe. And if you don't really want a high level of stability, those shoes can be a little bit hard work to run in. I think the Tempest is just, it's got a little bit of stability. It does feel stable, but I can do, I've found it to be really good. I've been doing intervals in it and stuff while I was testing out and not had any issues with it, really enjoying it.
01:03:45
Speaker
I like it too. I've just been mooching around in it mainly. Like I say, the last few weeks of marathon training, easy runs in a stable shoe like this is great. It's not intrusive at all, the stability features. Like you say, I think it is quite stable. It's not even just a stable neutral shoe. It almost feels more like it is a full stability shoe for people who need that.
01:04:07
Speaker
softer and more fun than I expected to run in. It almost was a little bit like the kind of shoe you should run. All of us should just use a slightly stable shoe for general training. But you know, you tend to gravitate to slightly more fun things like the Nova blast or stuff like that, because they're a bit more poppy and light and feel a bit more exciting underfoot. But there's no real downside to just grinding everything out in some of the tempers, which is fun, but also just very sensible. It's a sensible shoe.
01:04:32
Speaker
It's a sensible shoe, but I think you get a lot of comments from when it comes to stability shoes on the channel with people. I think historically people who use stability shoes are a little bit disappointed sometimes that they can't get hold of shoes that give them the benefits of non-stability shoes.
01:04:47
Speaker
I think we're getting better. I think the Tempest is probably one of the better. I think the New Balance 86 V12 is a similar shoe. It's a very subtle level of stability. You can run in that quite nicely. I don't really notice stability elements. But I definitely think the Tempest is one of the best stability shoes I've tested for a while. And again, I've said this time and time again, whenever we do a video, socket ear just really on top of things this year. I've not had a bad shoe from them.
01:05:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's great. The only downside in terms of it is it speaks more expensive than I expected. So, you know, 160 quid, like that's a bit of a shame. But you know, it has got some of the power on PB foam and all that in it. But yeah, I was like, if that price is a bit cheaper, it is a very good shoe for anyone to consider. But yeah, and that is it is great in that it's bringing that stability to everyone. But so people can use it neutral state, neutral runners, stability runners, everything. And it's pretty, pretty versatile.
01:05:42
Speaker
You tried it yet, Mike? I've got it. I haven't, but I mean, I, you know, I've used the guide a lot and I think, I agree with you. I think soccer and your new balance have really pushed out very good, enjoyable stability shoes where they maybe go a little bit lighter than other stability shoes. But I think, you know, this looks like another one that's going to fit in that kind of mold as well. And it's one I'm going to use like the next couple of weeks, kind of for my easy runs up until Chicago. So I'm actually looking forward to using it as well.
01:06:09
Speaker
Cool. All right then, so let's just jump through a few more Puma Deviate Nitro 2. Nick, what you've used on this so far? Oh, we'll just quickly on it. I just put the video up recently. It's a very good all-rounder shoe. It's got a carbon play in it. It's got some Piba foam, so you might think it's lightning fast. And that isn't the case. It's more of a workhorse shoe, but it's got an amazing outsole. It is fast. I've gone to the track in it. I've done sessions in it, but it's really
01:06:34
Speaker
one of the most versatile shoes I've come across not only because of the range of paces it can handle but the fact it's got a full puma grip out so with some puma grip ATR at the back which is their more trail focused rubber so you know I've gone and done sessions on the canal toe pass that kind of thing so it really does open up everything you basically just go head out the door and run the shoe like as these kind of all-rounder trainer racers go it's not as quick as someone like the Speed3
01:06:55
Speaker
and it's not as light and nimble, but for training runs, it's really nice to have a shoe that you can not stretch. Three months of the year, I can go on every trail around me in this shoe, and even in winter, most things will be okay, and that's really great for what is still fairly light and speedy. So a fairly light and speedy shoe. Yeah, I wanted to check out. I didn't like it at first, I have to say.
Running Shoe Reviews
01:07:14
Speaker
I thought it was just a bit dull, and it's not the most exciting ride, but it does get the job done in lots of different ways.
01:07:19
Speaker
Nice, more interesting stuff from Pume then. And then quickly, a really interesting shoe, which a lot of people have been watching on the channel, the Kipron KD900X, an affordable carbon plate shoe. Yeah, this is a great shoe. I really, really liked it until someone nicked it off me.
01:07:36
Speaker
If you're listening, please give them the shoes back. Give them back. It's so popular, I can't get another one into review, but I've done a couple of runs on it. It's a firmer carbon shoe. It's got a Piba foam, but decathlon have really focused on durability. They're talking about a thousand kilometers of life from the shoe, and that necessarily means it's going to be firmer at the start. It does break in a little bit, but I managed to get through a couple of runs on it before, like I say, it disappeared.
01:07:56
Speaker
I think it's going to be a really solid trainer racer, but it is fast enough to race. I was doing a mile rep session in it, and I did enjoy that. I've done general training run. It's a firmer field. It's a more stable field than classic carbon shoes. I would put this up against things like the endorphin speed rather than top carbon races, but it's 130 pounds, so it's cheaper than the speed and cheaper than most training partnerships, let alone full carbon shoes.
01:08:20
Speaker
it's going to be durable. It is more stable the result of being firmer and it is still fast. But if you're craving that super shoe feeling of explosive bounce and squishy foams, you're not getting it here. You are getting a much more traditional feel, but with some extra pop from the plate and the foam. Okay. Is there a full review up on the tire? No, because I haven't managed to get to do any more testing, so that will be coming down the line. Blame the thieves for this. Yeah. They'll be doing the full review.
01:08:50
Speaker
Mike, you've both been testing the shoe, which I haven't tested. I'm very, very angry that I've not tested it because it's like my perfect shoe by the sounds of it. But the A6 Novoblast 3. Yeah. Well, somebody sends Tom a pair of Novoblast 3. Anyone, anyone send them. Anyone, anyone, anyone. You moan so much about having the shoe.
01:09:10
Speaker
I love both the NoBlast 1 and 2, so it's like my dream shoe. Is it good? I've really liked it. I mean, I think my thoughts on the NoBlast, I mean, I didn't run in the original NoBlast, but I did run the NoBlast 2, and I did like the NoBlast 2, but I found it was a little bit too excitable for me in terms of the runs, but... You wouldn't have liked the 1 then. But I think for me, obviously, you've got a bit more of that foam in there, but I think, you know, in terms of what...
01:09:38
Speaker
Essex is done with that mid-sulfame. It's definitely all very good. But for me, it feels a little bit more controlled when you're running. So I still think you get that kind of speedy, snappy feeling from it. But I think it feels a little bit more stable for me, which I've really liked. And I've done a fair amount of running in it. And to be honest, I've enjoyed every run. And I definitely still think it fits in that criteria, being a kind of a
01:10:01
Speaker
a daily trainer, if you want to pick up the pace and go a little bit quicker in it, you can, and it feels really, for me, it feels really nice and enjoyable to run in. Nick, is it FF Blast Plus in it, or is it a new turbo, isn't it? Ah, okay. It's the top stuff. Is it? Oh, yeah. No, Blast Plus, Blast Plus, you're right. Yeah, Blast Plus, yeah.
01:10:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's good. For me, I actually found it almost in between the one and the two. I think it's less controlled than the two in a good way in that it does release that foam a bit more and has a bit more bounce to it. I think I like it less than I liked it after the first run, I have to say. Often it happens with exciting shoes like this and bouncing shoes like this. I kind of really like them at first because it's so fun to feel, but when I get into a grind of a training week, I almost defer to more controlled shoes.
01:10:45
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I've never loved Novos. I've always found it good for easy runs. This does feel like it's a bit more versatile and good for speedier paces. But I think with my shuffly stride, I'm never sure it's worked that well for me, as it might do for other people who may put a bit more force into the shoe with a more loping stride perhaps.
Fun Facts and Gadgets Debate
01:11:03
Speaker
But yeah, I like it quite a lot still. Well, first run of that up on the channel now, and there will be a review coming up soon. Quick running fact. Running facts.
01:11:16
Speaker
Quite like this one because it's so completely pointless and tenuous. Oh, and all the others have been really, really full of points. You're not meant to comment on these, you're just meant to enjoy them.
01:11:28
Speaker
There apparently are 84 pubs lining the London marathon route. I don't know who this is for. I don't know if it's for people doing the marathon showing off. I don't know if it's for students doing a pub crawl. Probably the best pub crawl of all time. And also, I don't know if that's pre-pandemic, because that's probably gone down quite a bit now. Yeah, three left. Three left, yeah, yeah. But I just like the idea of the person who came up with that fact. Did he walk at the whole thing and check them all out, or did he just go on Google Maps and sort of... Street viewed it, didn't he? Yeah.
01:11:56
Speaker
I like to think he just tested it all out over a week. One hell of a week. I can't decide if that sounds low or high than I'd have expected.
01:12:04
Speaker
Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. That sounds pretty doable. I don't know if it's doable. It's definitely not doable. But some of the streets can have loads of them, aren't they? So you probably pick up 10 in about 100 metres. Oh, it's doable. I was wondering if maybe I'd have thought there'd be more, but there are some stretches in the Isle of Dogs where you wouldn't expect any, I guess. What if it includes gastropubs and stretch restaurants? All by one?
01:12:29
Speaker
Yeah, this fact needs a little bit more detail, I think. With? Or it's not like them normally. Normally they're so, you know...
01:12:38
Speaker
Maybe, Tom, you can research it for next London Marathon. Yeah, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. Take a tent with me. All right, okay, so that's fantastic fact, that one. For anyone doing the London Marathon, that's a really useful bit of my issue for you there. All right, let's dive into some tech. Tom's got too much detail on these because we'll be covering these on the channel. Bit of an update on the Garmin Enduro 2, anyone?
01:13:01
Speaker
Yeah, Garmin Giro too. Obviously the Giro is kind of, it's watch ranging Garmin's collection, which is aimed at kind of ultra runners, endurance kind of athletes. I think the big thing really here with this watch in terms of how it compares to the originals that you're getting, you're now getting full mapping.
01:13:19
Speaker
you are getting I mean less so relevant a music player which was missing from the first one. You're getting kind of multi-band mode and this new SAT IQ technology that has kind of rolled out to the epics and the phoenix ranges as well and then you're obviously getting huge battery life and I would say huge tracking battery life. I think there's a little bit of a drop off in kind of day-to-day use but ultimately you're getting something that can go longer than you know most other Garmin watches. It's expensive, it's very expensive and I think
01:13:47
Speaker
If you want massive amounts of battery life, then great. The Enduro 2 would be great for you. If you can live with a little bit less and still get pretty much the same experience, then the Phoenix and the Epics are there for you in comparison, based on my testing and time with it. And we've got a full review of that up now. Yep. Full review is up on the channel now. Excellent. Okay. And then let's do the big one.
01:14:13
Speaker
the one that everyone's here for. That's why I've left it till the end of the podcast, so people have to listen to the rest of it. Apple Watch Ultra just released. Nice looking watch. Do you want to tell, do you want to, do you want to delve into that, Nick? And then we can talk about how fantastic or maybe not fantastic it is.
01:14:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's very interesting to watch. Obviously, I'm someone who has used an Apple Watch as their main running watch in the past when training very hard. I really like the Apple Watch. I was prepared to sacrifice a little bit of battery life, a lot of battery life to use it. But I tended to have to use third-party apps like Workoutdoors to get good tracking experience. And that is still a great app option with loads of data fields and built-in maps.
01:14:49
Speaker
Apple has now really upgraded the software on the watch. That's across all Apple watches with the WatchOS 9 update. You get all the stats. You get lap pace at last. They call it split pace, but it's lap pace. And that's a massive update for me. So I now find that the stats and everything in the native app is great. You are now getting things like running power as well and some basic kind of technique analysis like stride length and vertical oscillation, although all those stats seem a bit wrong in my testing as we talk about in our review after one week.
01:15:14
Speaker
And the Ultra, what you're really getting compared to the normal Apple Watch range is a bigger screen, a bigger battery. It's two days reliably, even with running a extra button, a lap button you can set it up to be, which is obviously massive. It's called the action button. And yeah, just generally it's a sportier Apple Watch. The Ultra is not the word. I think it's not really an Ultra marathon watch. It's much more, I think, going to suit runners like me, marathon runners, who
01:15:35
Speaker
are going out running regularly but aren't running for horrendously long periods of time so you can just charge every couple of days and go and do all your marathon training and it's you know the the best option yet from Apple for that because combined with the softer updates the harder updates make this a really solid all-round running watch that you then and then a fantastic smartwatch which obviously isn't the case with garments and that garments and all that i think it's all better sports watches definitely and the mapping in particular is a bit of a step up on the equivalent price garments but
01:16:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a really good move from Apple to do this. Very expensive. It's coming in quite, you know, it's double the price of their normal watch. I think that's a big problem because the Series 8 gets all those software updates. And if you can live without an extra day of battery and the action button and the slightly bigger screen, you're going to get more or less the same experience on that in terms of the running track capabilities, I think.
01:16:21
Speaker
But it is the sportiest Apple watch yet. And if you are someone who wants to use an Apple watch but doesn't want too much of a drop-off in sports tracking, it does provide that. And in day-to-day use, it's as good, I think, a lot of the time. As a dedicated sports watch, you just lose out on some key features and battery life, obviously.
01:16:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think, yeah, like Nick said, I think there's definitely some shaky elements in terms of the accuracy. You know, I've always found the heart rate monitoring on the standard kind of Apple Watch very, very solid, very, very good. And I haven't quite seen that the same kind of level of accuracy for me on my runs. But I do agree that in terms of the level of metrics that you're getting in that app, in Apple's own app, it feels more like they're making this more for runners, which I think is a positive thing. And I think
01:17:02
Speaker
It's a good, it's a good starting point for Apple on this front. I still think, you know, if you, if it was me, I would be looking at the epics too and paying a little bit more and you could probably get it for a little bit less as well. And you're getting more in terms of battery life, the support in terms of tracking and the accuracy as well. Again, early, early doors in terms of testing. That's kind of my initial feeling really right now that it's, it's not quite there yet, but I see enough there to suggest
01:17:28
Speaker
maybe in a couple of iterations time, I think it's going to give something for Garmin to worry about. There's a little bit of a frustration for me, actually, is that a lot of the changes they've made are quite minor. They're things that you'd find on very cheap sports watches. I've been saying for years that Apple could put this in the native app very easily, and they've just done it. It's like, we're eight generations in, and you've just added some pretty basic metrics. That is a frustration for me because
01:17:49
Speaker
they could have been this far along the way a lot earlier. You didn't need to make the Apple Watch Ultra to make all those software changes. Like having the hardware now is slightly upgraded hardware is nice, but really it's a bit silly that you didn't have so many metrics available from generation one.
01:18:05
Speaker
I think a simple thing is being able to how you pause a workout. I think it's taken this minute to say, oh, actually, the button would be better over there. I mean, watch has been doing that for years. So I mean, there's little things that they all obviously in marketing say they're amazing. But I think ultimately they've been around and other watches. But I do think that I've seen a lot here that suggest that they're on the right tracks. And I think give it a couple of
01:18:29
Speaker
versions, I think we'll be maybe talking differently about it in terms of performance overall. I suppose we look at it from a sports watch world, but compared to other smartwatches, the Apple Watch has always been a lot better at sports tracking in my opinion than all Android. And now it's just streets ahead. If you're just looking at native tracking smartwatches, they've never done this that well. So maybe they're now just getting a lot more insight from the sports side. Absolutely.
01:18:52
Speaker
Okay, well, you've spent long enough talking about those. We've got two other watches to talk about, but I'm going to give you just about four sentences to cover these, Mike, because they're running out of time. So, what Samsung got coming out? I don't want to talk too much about that. I mean, not great running watches, not great runner watches, ultimately. Samsung Galaxy Watch 5, very similar to Samsung Galaxy Watch 4, bar a few extra software features, save for me, not massively different. Galaxy Watch 5 Pro,
01:19:17
Speaker
It's a more outdoor-centric watch. They've added mapping features, but actually they're not designed for runners, they're designed for hiking and cycling. You get a little bit more battery life on the Watch 5 Pro, but not that massive amount. It's still a good smartwatch option for Android users, but in terms of the core running tracking experience, it's still not great for me, and I would go for something like the Garmin Venue 2 in comparison, I think.
01:19:38
Speaker
Right, so Garmin Venue Square 2. Yeah, and then the Garmin Venue SQ2, which is obviously the upstate. Is it Square 2? Is it SQ2? SQ2, yeah. So this is the cheapest Garmin smartwatch you can get that has a colour screen. It now has an AMOLED screen. I think more importantly, it has the UI changes that you had on the, got on the Venue 2, because I think it was a bit archaic on the first Venue SQ.
01:20:02
Speaker
It's gone up in price, which I think is a bit of a shame because I think if it sat at its original price, it's a really solid kind of smartwatch option. But I think Garmin maybe made a mistake. They were not keeping price. And it would be a really strong sports tracking smartwatch, you know, under 200 pounds, but it's just over 200 at the moment. Cool. Okay. Well, I think that's enough kit for this month.
Marathon Shoe Advice for Beginners
01:20:25
Speaker
Let's stop it there.
01:20:35
Speaker
Okay guys, now it's the time for the questions section where we try and answer as many questions as you can relatively quickly. So this is an audio exclusive. You don't get this on the video version. So if you've sent us a question over the past month,
01:20:52
Speaker
it may be on here. The idea here is that we don't have a lot of time to answer questions when you send them in comments. A lot of the time they're very difficult to answer in a comment form because there's a lot more to it. So we've tried to add them all in here and hopefully we'll be able to answer some of these questions that will help all of you out. So first question here is from Daniel Gurman and he said, he's talking about the Puma velocity Nitro II. Would this last a marathon? Yes.
01:21:18
Speaker
Yeah, be fine. Be fine. Really good shoe. I'd actually go fast, say, to almost all running shoes would last a marathon. Yes. I'm presuming he's asking more like, would it feel good for a marathon as opposed to, is it going to fall apart after 23 miles? Unless he is asking that. And then, yeah, you're right. Get any pair of running shoes. Very good marathon option, I'd say.
01:21:39
Speaker
Yeah, Daniel Byrne, he says, I bought the Bayfly 2 a few weeks back for my half marathon. I want to limit the training mileage in them so they'd last longer. What shoes are good, cheaper alternatives to training? Good question and very common. Everyone pick a shoe. Nick, what would you pick as your training partner for the Bayfly 2? Endorphin Speed 3.
01:22:00
Speaker
Good choice. I would pick either of those. I'd probably actually go speed three, actually, just because I prefer running a plate of tempo, pace and intervals. But yeah, either of those is a fantastic option. Daniel Russic. He says, hi, Tom. Thanks for the... Oh, it's for me. So you guys can go quite...
01:22:22
Speaker
Hi Tom, thanks for the video. Among all Max cushion shoes, which are the most stable? This is an interesting question. We've kind of covered that already today. Max cushion shoes, there's lots of them about these days and they do vary massively. I think I replied to this and said that the most stable is probably something
01:22:39
Speaker
Like the new bands more v3 for me because it has a that the Midsole foam is quite firm in comparison to what you'll get in something like the Nike invincible or even the triumph or the brooks glittering 20 But if you really want added stability, but you still want a shoe that just feels like a max cushion shoe Sochini tempest is a great option at the moment and we've spoke about this earlier Any other things you can think of guys cloud monster is pretty stable cloud monster is a good option this hours This is actually on the cloud monster video. So that's I think that's why it came up. Yeah
01:23:08
Speaker
Cool, okay. PGPGPGP says out of these, which out of these, he's talking about the car and plate shoes, which is more newbie friendly for car and plate shoes? Oh, all of them. I think the dolphin pro 3 is a really nice option for everyone, generally. I'd say pro 3. I agree. Yeah, yeah. I'd also say that if you are
01:23:30
Speaker
completely new to carbon plate shoes and you've only ran in traditional shoes and you don't want to, because carbon plate shoes can be quite difficult for some runners to wear, especially if they've just started running. Something like the Hoka Carbon X3 feels very traditional, but you do have a tiny subtle carbon plate in it, but wouldn't bother.
01:23:50
Speaker
I quite like that. I think that she's okay for general running. I wouldn't have a race in it. Yeah, there's loads of shoes that are good for general running. You have to spend 108 quid on it. I can't carbon X2 then, which is probably about 90 quid at the moment. Okay, Gianni Manca, he says, Triumph 20 versus Tempest.
01:24:09
Speaker
It's a good question actually. Depends what you want. Triumph 20 is probably going to be softer, a bit bouncier, a bit more enjoyable to ruin in, tempest is a bit more stable. I think I like the tempest a bit more generally at the moment, but it's early days. And then he said the same thing about glycerin versus tempest, which is essentially the same question because the Triumph 20 and the glycerin 20 are very similar shoes. But I like the glycerin more than the Triumph Tom. Well, we had this discussion a while ago.
01:24:33
Speaker
I'm in the 20 camp, you're in the glistening 20 camp, but I can't tell much of a difference between the two. This is essentially, if you want a bit more stability. Yeah, it's a bit lighter, probably a bit more versatile, maybe. JamsJabs says, cloud boom for a marathon in four hours 30. Good choice, man, 73 kilograms.
01:24:54
Speaker
Don't do it to yourself. No, not a good choice. Too firm. Not a good choice, yeah. Not a good choice, largely because there's just way better shoes out there as well. More comfortable shoes out there, faster shoes. Yeah, I'd say. Like, if you're just thinking of a comfort over 4 hours 40, I would not be near the top of my list. No, it's not going to be comfortable. It's not going to help you get faster. It's expensive. Okay. Farhan Hadidama says, what is better? Kip from KD900X or Sakhni Speed 2. Oh.
01:25:23
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I've only managed to do three runs in the kit run. So if it's the same price, I'd get the speed too, definitely. Yeah. Try and test it. Okay, I'm going to throw in a fact here quickly. Good one, this one. Running fact.
01:25:44
Speaker
In 1865 in Northampton, the earliest form of running shoe included a regular shoe with nails hammered through them for cross-country running. Yeah, that makes sense. But it wasn't until 1917 when rubber soles were added to shoes.
01:26:00
Speaker
Okay, this gets more interesting. This gets more interesting. It's a developing fact. It's not it's like three facts, but none of them are interesting enough to put sound alone. In the 1940s, two brothers Rudolf and Addy in Germany created two different shoe shops. And one of those became Puma and one became Adidas.
01:26:20
Speaker
Yeah, the Dassler's. And the Adidas is named after Eddie Dass, isn't it? I did not know that. That's quite interesting. Sounds like, I'm surprised there's not a film about that. But I think there was some quite interesting history there. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if they both ended up being great guys. But yeah, there's some interesting history there.
01:26:38
Speaker
OK, a few more questions. OK, from Michael Walsh. Great vid. Love the non-running shoe content. Quick question for Tom. Ah, yes. How does the New Balance jacket fit? Is it true to size? What height size are you? Well, I'm not going to go into too much detail about my personal sizing, but I'm fairly average sized.
01:27:00
Speaker
around five foot six to seven. I wear small in those impact run light jackets from New Balance and they are very comfortable. There's a nice little bit of room in them, but they do feel quite fitted. So I definitely go in your sort of normal size that you go for. They're not tight or excessive size. I would say in the running world, Tom is probably above average muscles.
01:27:20
Speaker
I'm a bit bulkier than most runners, so normally I go for medium in a lot of jackets that are tight, but I go for a small in the impact run jacket because there's a bit of space in it, it's not too tight.
01:27:33
Speaker
What's your chest size, Tom? Chest size, Tom? I don't know. I've got no idea. Just very, very powerful, muscular. Johnny says... Johnny says, would you be interested in your thoughts on the best cross-country racing shoes? Nick, give us a couple of picks on best cross-country race shoes.
01:27:54
Speaker
I love cross country racing shoes. The best picks, if you still find them, they're very good. They're the Hoka Evo Jaws. They've discontinued the line, but if you can pick them up, they'll be very cheap somewhere. They've got nice six millimeter studs that are pretty good in the mud. And then once it gets to the real heart of the season, innovates are going to be your best bet.
01:28:10
Speaker
You can get the, I think the two 10s, the GX Talon G2 10s are probably the lightest and they've got eight millimeter studs. So all the weight is just basically in the outsole and I've used those for the 15K around Hampstead Heath. That is an absolute slog and very unpleasant, but they're very good in terms of grip.
01:28:27
Speaker
Very useful. I'm not going to add anything to that because I don't do anything even remotely close to cross country. I don't think you do either, Mike, do you? I haven't done any cross country runs in the club, so no. Sorry, I forgot the other ones I used a lot last season, which is the Adidas Terrex Pro soft ground SG edition. They are quite common. I've used those for 27K runs and as well as like five more races and they're very good as well. Lovely. Christian says Nike vapor fly or Adidas Takumi sent eight for a one mile PB around the track.
01:28:56
Speaker
All the street flies added in a separate comment. Not the street fly. To give you a sense of how flight might make a difference. Yeah, get whatever's cheapest. They'll both be very good. Okay. And then Kevin finally says, socks, what socks do you wear and on what runs? I recently ran a 10 kilometer and it started to pour and I felt my socks and shoes just absorb the water. And I reckon that as soon as for good rainy day running socks. That's tough because pretty much all socks unless you get specific watery ones.
01:29:23
Speaker
They're going to soak up the water and waterproof ones do tend to be a little bit thicker and hotter. Yeah, sort of some nice little weather ones that are repellent rather than waterproof. Yeah, just getting nice. Well, it's a good shout as well because they're quite thin, so they don't really absorb much of water either. Yeah, although the all weather ones they do are a bit thicker. Yeah, get a really thin pair if it's going to rain. I think that's the way it stalks, make very thin socks. Good option.
01:29:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Saysky actually, I've got a lot of Saysky socks at the moment. They're really nice and thin and they don't soak up a lot of water there. Tom, I just shock you. I'm wearing Saysky socks right now and I did notice how thin they were when I pulled them on. Yeah, excellent. I like wine. Thanks for that info and that did shock me.
01:30:04
Speaker
Those are the performance socks, aren't they? Performance socks, those are the ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've been using them quite a bit for marathon training in the summer heat. Okay, so I think that's all the questions we can have got time for this month. So what have we got coming up in the next?
01:30:21
Speaker
few weeks, guys, after we've done our marathons. All the marathon race vids. That's going to be the big feature, I think, this month. And we will, at the end of towards the end of next month, we're going to do another carpentry vid, just our top picks, what we use, why, why, you know, what are the best marathon issues having done, having a few of us all race to marathon in the coming months.
01:30:39
Speaker
and I will be doing my Saucony Endorphin Pro PB video, where I try, I've almost PB'd in every distance now, apart from 10K, so 5K, 10K, 10 mile, half marathon, a marathon, I'll be trying to PB in all of those, and I'll be doing a video about doing it in this Saucony Endorphin. A braggy video, isn't it, really? Yeah. Well, I've still got a 5 to 10K. Actually, I've got Lansing 10K, two weeks after, three weeks after Chicago, so I should be able to bang it out.
01:31:07
Speaker
of PB there. And then I will have fancy new PBs all in the Saucony and Orphan Pro 3, hopefully, unless Mike trips me over to Chicago. Cool. And then we've got to innovate nitrogen-infused trail shoes as well. Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting in out in that. And then I'm also going to do a video on taking all of Tom's local legend writing as well. So look out for that as well. You don't have the
01:31:37
Speaker
Hundreds of laps. I'm going to move down to Brighton for just a month and just do them all. I'll get a few more tonight. I've got to do half marathon tonight. That's at least 14 new local legends.
01:31:52
Speaker
okay guys so if you if you want to send us a question in you can email us at team at the runtesters.com or comment on the video itself and if you want to leave us any other messages you can go to the run testers is at instagram and then youtube is the run testers as well as you
01:32:10
Speaker
probably guessed based on logic. So other than that, thanks for listening or watching and we will be back next month, end of next month and big thank you to sponsor for this video TrackSmith and we will see you soon.
01:32:27
Speaker
Catch you later. This podcast was brought to you by Tracksmith. If you wanna find out more about the activations happening in London over the course of the 30th of September to the 7th of October, click in the link in the caption below. You can also find out more about getting a free singlet as part of your order from Tracksmith by clicking the other link below.
01:32:47
Speaker
This episode of the podcast was presented by Tom Wheatley, Nick Harris-Brye, Mike Saw and Kieran Alger. The music used in the podcast was by Fear of Tigers. The podcast was sponsored by Tracksmith.