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How to Apply Today’s Customer Loyalty Trends
1.8k Plays2 years ago
Jodi is a strategic marketing and loyalty leader with exceptional customer focus. She has deep experience in developing, transforming and managing differentiated loyalty programs, marketing activities and customer experiences driven by data, insights and financial rigor. In this episode, you’ll learn about ways your brand can deliver value without points and discounts and why that’s important, the danger of collecting customer data and not using it, why testing is key and important tips about paid loyalty programs.
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Transcript
Introduction and Jody's Background
00:00:10
Speaker
Get Personal with Loyalty, where we're discussing using loyalty to deliver personalized, relevant customer experiences. Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to Get Personal with Loyalty. I'm here today with Jody Rauch from Concentric Catalyst. She is the Managing Director of Integrated Loyalty Solutions. Welcome, Jody. Thanks, Erin. Excited to be here.
00:00:33
Speaker
I'm excited to have you. Why don't we start off with you giving a little bit of your background. And I know you've been in this space for a really long time, as have I. That's fair. But I would love to give you the chance to tell people about your experience and how you got into loyalty and where you are today. Great. Thank you for having me. Hi to the podcast audience. So I've really been
00:00:57
Speaker
My first loyalty-based job was actually an internship in college for one of the field offices of a major hotel brand. I ended up working there and I really fell in love with the art and the science
00:01:13
Speaker
of loyalty, the behavioral side of it. Why do people decide that they're going to go to one brand versus another, a hotel versus another? When really at the core, if you want to be honest about it, you have a clean bed and a clean bathroom and that's where you're going to stay for the night. What does, what differentiates? And this, this is really kind of the start of my journey. So I've, I've taken a number of interesting paths along the way, but I've always really just been very much enthralled with
00:01:41
Speaker
not just the loyalty experience, but the customer experience. And how can we make it better? And how do we think of it in a different way than just like, I hope they have a nice day. So started out client side, and then for the majority of the rest of my career, I've been on the services side. So really having the opportunity to work with different brands across different verticals.
00:02:04
Speaker
figure out how best to really influence their customers and how they not only perceive the brand, how do they engage with the brand and how do they become just a huge fan of the brand. It's a fun journey. I think it's a really fun industry and I love talking about it. So I appreciate you
Enhancing Customer Experience with Loyalty
00:02:21
Speaker
inviting me today. Great. I love that.
00:02:24
Speaker
And you do more than just like loyalty. A lot of times when you say loyalty, people think programmatic loyalty. Yes. And so your experience has been much broader than that. Certainly you know how to develop great loyalty programs, but how maybe it's starting there and extending it all into the overall customer experience, or maybe it's the other way around of, and you can clarify for me, like building the experience and then how does loyalty come in and maybe support?
00:02:52
Speaker
Yes, it's a great point. So thank you for bringing that up. And sometimes it goes in both directions. Sometimes really the customer experience is not necessarily on the radar or is not as much of a big priority for a brand that we're working with and throughout
00:03:09
Speaker
the process of coming up with a loyalty strategy, to your point, whether it's programmatic or not, it really starts opening eyes into the entire customer experience. And it shouldn't just be for people who have raised their hand and say, I want to be part of your program, especially for the non-programmatic loyalty strategies out there of which there are many. How do you make sure that you are changing the customer experience for people based on
00:03:34
Speaker
how they do engage with your brand, how they interact, and how they've really raised their hand to say, I want to know more about you and this is where I want to shop. I
Beyond Points: New Trends in Loyalty Programs
00:03:43
Speaker
think that's a key part.
00:03:45
Speaker
Love it. Love it. So excited for this conversation. Yes. Thank you. It was great to have you contribute to our trends piece. And I know you had a lot of opinions on what's going on. You've been in the space forever. One of the things that we didn't talk about beforehand, but wondering, is this concept of moving away from points?
00:04:06
Speaker
And i've seen some people where they're looking at it and they're they're saying well i don't want points and they're saying it very loudly but then when you dig in and you start talking to them they actually want a currency they just don't want it called points like they might want something that's more personal to their brand i come from a world of hey i think it's fine not to have a currency.
00:04:29
Speaker
But I think that some people maybe are afraid or don't understand what does that mean? How do I have a program without currency? How do I get somebody to join something if I don't have this tangible thing for them? And I'm curious to your take on that. Is that something that you're seeing? Is that something you're recommending? And if so, what do you tell people? Yeah, no, it's a great question. I think, you know,
00:04:55
Speaker
Conceptually, I think a lot of people can get behind, no, we don't need points. We don't need points. Where I see them end up falling back and kind of adding in a currency, whether they call it points or not, tends to be when they start getting worried that they can't offer the same hole that their competitors can. So if every one of your direct competitors have a points program, do you start worrying that you're not going to have a program that can compete?
00:05:21
Speaker
And
Emotional Loyalty and Experiential Programs
00:05:22
Speaker
there are so many other ways to bring value outside of monetary value, whether it's points or it's offers or discounts, et cetera. So much of that in our mind is really driving transactional loyalty, which is great because you want people to come in, you want people to purchase, but as soon as they get a better offer, they're going to go somewhere else. You have to make sure that you're building that emotional loyalty, which I mean,
00:05:46
Speaker
I'll say it right now, I'm a diehard Delta Sky miles member. I will always pay more for flight and take it on Delta. And it's not because I get miles. It's because of the service. It's because of the experience, all of the other perks that I get because of my status. They have my emotional loyalty, 100%, 100% brand love. I'm not going anywhere else. And they're able to do that while still having miles, but they also have to juggle for those people who fly Delta for the miles.
00:06:16
Speaker
So it's not like they can get rid of them. And I think about that with other brands that maybe are just starting out. Certainly Deltas had Skymals for a very long time. As you're just starting out, do you have the courage to do something that's different? We did just launch with a client an entirely experiential program. There are no points. There is no free shipping. It is all about engagement and exclusive content.
00:06:45
Speaker
and exclusive access to things. And right now it is doing really well. People love it because they want that information. They want to be part of the inside scoop. And that really for their brand is working beautifully. And I think that it's knowing your brand and knowing your audience about who's going to react to what. As much as we push it, you really have to know who you're talking to.
00:07:13
Speaker
Now I want to know who the brand is, but also something that you can do behind the scenes is be tracking those behaviors, right? And and then do you add in like a some kind of surprise and delight that you it's a surprise and delight to the customer, but to you, you know that they've reached a milestone that you were tracking for. Yes, yes.
00:07:37
Speaker
And with them, we did kind of come up with an algorithm behind the scenes of how are we kind of scoring, for lack of a better word. Members were how are they engaging with the brand? How frequently are they engaging with the brand? Wanting to make sure that we understand what parts of the brand appeal to each of the different segments and audiences so that we can
00:08:00
Speaker
do more targeted offers, maybe targeted experiences, the surprise and delight that you're speaking of. I think that's really important. You don't want to necessarily give it to someone who came by once every six months. And that's not necessarily the best way to lure them back in. Certainly something you could test, but that's not who we would recommend doing a surprise and delight for. So yes, I think
Leveraging Customer Data for Personalization
00:08:25
Speaker
very much keeping track of what's going on in the background and
00:08:29
Speaker
I know Annex Cloud has that capability with your system of being able to track that is not necessarily a public facing currency, but it's in essence kind of a currency in the background of how are you performing as a customer to this brand, for sure.
00:08:46
Speaker
Yeah, and I think we're seeing more too with like gamification type of things where if it's still it's not points, but it's a badge. So if you've done certain things and you make you feel special by giving you some kind of recognition too. Yes, I think status and recognition are highly highly underrated. Whether it's status is a tier or just acknowledging thank you for being a customer of ours for 10 years.
00:09:15
Speaker
showing that you're paying attention to who I am as a customer is so, so valuable along the way of I'm giving you my data, I'm giving you my money, most likely, recognize me, especially if I'm also trying to capture first and zero party data about you. If you're asking me questions and you're not using it, that data component is so critical. We've talked about personalization and big data for years now. Years.
00:09:43
Speaker
I think yes. And it feels, it always feels weird when we say that it's going to be a trend and it's going to be a trend because I'm like, well, it's been a trend for five years. It's kind of no longer a trend. It should be the norm. And I think for many brands, it is the norm, but there are still brands who seem to really struggle with, I am capturing this fantastic customer data from you, but I'm still going to market to you like everyone else, no matter what you've told me. And that I think it's hard to watch.
00:10:12
Speaker
I'm sure you feel the same way when when you're giving your information to someone and they don't seem to have remembered it at all. But it's also I mean, for us, I think it's a really good opportunity to go in and remind our clients of you could you could really be capturing so much more of their attention and attention could be just advocacy and engagement. It could also be share of wallet, but you need to take advantage of the of the information that they're giving you.
00:10:40
Speaker
It's a fabulous point and you can just look at your inbox on any given day and realize what isn't being used and what should be. I was thinking about this. Back with loyalty 360, we had talked about this concept of expectation matching. When we started to think about it, I think we started talking about it back in like 2012, which is 10 years ago. We thought then it was like, how do you connect with the customer?
00:11:08
Speaker
at before during and after the transaction based on on the data that they're giving you and it does seem like now we should still we're still talking about it but being in a better position now that i think the data or the technology is finally maybe caught up more where it is speaking to
00:11:25
Speaker
the different systems are speaking to each other a bit better. And I do think that loyalty systems are almost the laggard to that too. And part of the challenge is that you're collecting all this great data over here, but it wasn't integrating to POS. It wasn't integrating to e-com. It wasn't integrating or there wasn't a CDP for it all to come together. And it seems like maybe we're finally getting there.
00:11:49
Speaker
I would totally agree. I would totally agree because I do think too, a lot of brands for a long time thought that just putting Dear Jodi at the top of an email was personalization. Didn't you feel special? I'm so sorry it's not, but I do agree because there is such rich data in a loyalty program. And that's one of the benefits that we talk about when people are saying, why should I start a new loyalty program? Why should I have a loyalty program?
00:12:16
Speaker
the data is so rich if you use it correctly and if you capture it correctly. But if it never makes it to the rest of your ecosystem, it's kind of gold that's just buried. And if it's not used, then it's not going to have a good impact on the rest of your business. Well, it probably doesn't have a great impact on that particular customer who knew that they gave it to you, I think, which is your point earlier as well. I'm giving it to you. I expect you to use it. So yeah, it'll be interesting.
00:12:44
Speaker
As we were chatting before we started to record, you brought up a really interesting point as we were talking about this trends report that we recently put out and, okay, well, great. If I'm a marketer, you're throwing all this stuff at me, but what the heck do I do with it? Which I was like, oh, very insightful, Jody, thank you. I'd love to get your thoughts on how people could use it. Yeah. You know, I think it's an interesting conundrum because we're all, we've all set our goals for the year.
00:13:14
Speaker
Do you go back? No, probably not. But there are so many things when I read a trends report or when I participate in a trends report. As I'm thinking of them, it's not necessarily, oh my God, I have to completely change what I'm planning on doing this year. But it does start giving some ideas of what should I be looking out for? What should I be watching for and figuring out how can I maybe test some of those things that are kind of testable?
00:13:40
Speaker
One of the things that we talked about was charities and donations and how people are using their points. You know, I think the younger demographics are really starting to have a pull towards brands that have a common cause and they share values with the members. They want to see them be more philanthropic. So maybe it is testing into if we have sustainable products, maybe I offer double points on sustainable products because that's going to be a pull.
00:14:09
Speaker
as we're thinking about those different trends that we've highlighted, how are there things that I can test like that easily to see, is this something that's really going to resonate with my member base? There are bigger things in that trend report that are much more about how we think, how we act, and certainly we were also, you and I, talking earlier about the metaverse. The metaverse is not something that really you just kind of decide one day we're going to do it next month,
00:14:38
Speaker
something that is a little bit more planful. There are
Strategic Innovations in Loyalty
00:14:41
Speaker
different opinions on the approach that you should take. Do you just get out there and have something out there and test as you go and learn as you go? Or is it more impactful to be mindful of what you're trying to do and make sure that you're not just like throwing spaghetti at the wall, you're instead coming out with a plan of here's what I want to achieve by this instance in the metaverse, whether it's a promotion and I want people to be engaging
00:15:08
Speaker
actively with it or if it's something that people go to experience. What is the intention of being out there? What behaviors are you trying to drive and being more kind of intentional with your plan there? And that's not a we're going to get it done in the next couple months. Yeah, that's such a great point.
00:15:27
Speaker
I've been digging in and listening to it because we're beginning to see these things come up as requests from prospects and even clients like, what is this? I'm reading about it. Do I need to do it? And a lot of what I've been reading is, yeah, just go out there and give it a shot. You try it. And I get it. I think some of those early adopters are maybe forgivable.
00:15:49
Speaker
At this point because no one knows who go out give it a shot feel it out figure it out but to your point like why would you go out and do something with your brand that you're protecting all the time and have it potentially flop or have it not align with your brand and not every brand needs an NFT or needs a web through experience and
00:16:13
Speaker
I think we were talking a little bit like Vans has a lot of experiences out there and it makes sense. I think for their demographic, for the customers are, but I'm not sure that Nordstrom would be the same kind of experience. Yeah, for sure. I think too, you have to have the right people and resources in place in your brand because there are still people to your point asking, what is this?
00:16:41
Speaker
Well, if you don't know what it is, you probably should get to know what it is and understand it before you just start jumping in because it's not necessarily an inexpensive endeavor, depending on what you do. To me, it's also the balance of where am I going to get the biggest bang for my buck? And as a marketer, is it better to have something in the metaverse that may or may not work, but we can say that we're in the metaverse or is it better to invest those same marketing dollars in
00:17:09
Speaker
a really cool promotion or a really cool new concept or changes to the loyalty program of new experiences and reward and things like that that I know will move the needle. Yeah. We all
Balancing Core and Innovative Loyalty Structures
00:17:23
Speaker
know that budget dollars are very precious and how do you use them wisely? Yeah, I have this point. Back to some of the points you were making around the trends, I think those are really great insights
00:17:37
Speaker
And as we look at the trends, I think when we were publishing them, we're not saying these are what's happening in 2023, or they weren't really predictions of what is to be. It's more of what is happening out there and what is the direction, how directionally should we be moving? So hopefully people are reading it as more of a guide of these are the things I should be considering as I move forward. But I also think that some of the things you were saying, when I think about
00:18:06
Speaker
the loyalty program there's that core program aspects that the structure so do i appoints do i not do i have tears do i not they're out there every day but then i was talk about as i try to advise people am i not like you do i'm not writing their strategies for them but keep it simple in your structure and then you can get much more
00:18:28
Speaker
sophisticated or surgical with what I'll call overlays. So I've got this particular segment. What am I going to do with this segment? I've got a different segment that looks like this. What could I do with that? So if you do think NFTs or Web3 experience is appropriate for a segment, you could go down that path. Or if you wanted to try, to your point on the sustainability or the cause front, there's a particular group that you know are really
00:18:58
Speaker
Maybe that's part of the zero-party data they're sharing as to what's important to them. You can go and you can address those things in a more surgical way, which also could be contained. So you don't have to go out full bore after one of these kinds of things and hope for the best. You can test and learn where it makes the most sense, too. Yeah, absolutely. As we advise our clients, you have kind of, whether you call it published and unpublished, whether you call it above the line, below the line, there are those core
00:19:28
Speaker
pieces that everyone knows about that are part of the program and everything that you're talking about there, we consider like below the line. What are those unpublished things? And those are the things where you have the opportunity to test into. And I think you're absolutely right. So many of the trends, if you want to call it that, that really that's where I think is the most exciting part is to do that testing and learning below the line and figure out what makes the most sense for your brand.
00:19:55
Speaker
I really liked that. I hadn't heard it talked about like that, the above and the below the line. Do you have a particular approach to that or how you, is it just the programmatic pieces and then the more promotional kinds of things that keep it separate or how do you guys go on that? It's a good question. I think there's a couple of things that come into it. One is what's the core value proposition? If there are elements that as you're thinking about developing a program,
00:20:20
Speaker
that you're not really sure either how it's going to go or you're not really sure if you're going to be able to afford it. Like if everyone decides that that's the benefit that they really love and they latch onto it and everyone either redeems for it or participates in it, can we afford it? We usually start or recommend starting with that to be below the line so that it's not a published and promised benefit, but instead it's a, let's give it to a core group of people.
00:20:46
Speaker
And it could be either a targeted audience or a good kind of sample across all the different segments. Let's see how they react to it. Who reacts to it? Does everyone want it before you then put it out there publicly and say, Oh my God, it's really hard to pull back on a benefit once it's out there. Right. We've seen that a lot this last year. You know, there's
The Future of Personalized Loyalty
00:21:08
Speaker
been so many changes to programs this year and some were embraced with a lot of excitement and some.
00:21:16
Speaker
kind of fell flat and those brands heard about it in a big way. Yeah, I really like that. And I think what it does too is it really plays to
00:21:25
Speaker
I've always said that loyalty is anything but, set it and forget it. I think a lot of companies hope that it's set it and forget it. They're like, oh, great, I'm done. Watch. Right. Never. And it's the ones that are good are continuing to evolve. And that's a really great point is to start with something, start with something simple and then try that some of these below the line ideas and concepts, and then you can always move them above the line. And it might keep you out of some of the situations that we saw over the last year where
00:21:55
Speaker
where people have had to scale back or do things differently. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, some of the things above the line too, we always want there to be a hero benefit that appeals to everybody. It feels like everything that's above the line that's published tends to be much more mass oriented. It is for the entire segment, the entire population.
00:22:18
Speaker
So those are exactly like you said, what are those core things that you're going to need to keep the lights on that people are going to respond to? And it's going to be enough for people to sign up and want to participate. And then how do we keep them engaged with all the fun things underneath? The promises of extra or what have you. I have kind of a wild out there question for you. For years I've been thinking that.
00:22:43
Speaker
It may be challenging or at least to myself. I don't talk about it at a time, but we are talking about personalization all the time. So how do we get very personalized in our experiences to our customers? Yet we are designing loyalty programs, my air quotes, people that can't see me.
00:23:04
Speaker
that are really one size fits all. So everybody earns the same amount of points, everybody earns, creates a tier, and then they're all in these tiers. Granted, there's a little, I guess, customization if you're in a one tier versus another, but it's truly everybody knows what this is. Do you see a world or an opportunity in the future where organizations may
00:23:28
Speaker
create programs that are more nimble and Really would truly have a different program for Aaron versus Jody versus what you based on the things that that we want We like we we need and maybe I get rewarded $500 in spend but you're not going to get rewarded till $1,000 for a spend Lord knows what reason but maybe just by the way you spend maybe you buy more at one time than I do or something and
00:23:55
Speaker
Do you see that as anything in the wild future? That is a wild question. And not one I've really, I think, contemplated. I do think if technology could support it, I think there would be those who would want to try it. I do feel like
00:24:12
Speaker
From the earn perspective is where that's kind of the above the line that we see everyone kind of doing the same. That is like everyone knows what's going on and there are some of those programs as we're just talking about who are doing a lot more of the below the line that that feels a little bit more like choose your own adventure. Like I know that Aaron.
00:24:31
Speaker
Shops in women's clothing. I know that she likes to bike. I know that she enjoys traveling. And so I'm going to customize the different experiences and the different content that I share with you, whether it's pictures on the emails that I send to you. And maybe it's also redeemed for a bike versus redeemed for a gift card. I feel like that is much closer than.
00:24:58
Speaker
truly one-to-one loyalty program value props. If we could find a way to make that happen and possible without absolutely blowing the minds of the people who are running the programs, I think that would be really interesting. Yeah, I've been thinking about
Aligning Loyalty with Brand Strategy
00:25:15
Speaker
it for years. I've been calling it like me loyalty for lack of any better way to talk about it. It seems like technology could get us there
00:25:22
Speaker
But I think there's still that, how do you, how do you explain it to somebody to, to your point? Like we've, we've conditioned consumers to understand what a structure of a program looks like. So why do I want to give you my data? Oh, very easy for me to understand what that exchange is. If it's like, Oh, well just give me your data, join my program and you'll see what happens kind of thing.
00:25:46
Speaker
Like I said, I really like the concept. I do think one of the other struggles is not only explaining it to the person, but if you are a member and you love it, how do you explain it to your friends as like, uh, Oh my God, you should totally check out this program. Here are all the cool benefits that I get. And then they sign up and that's not what they get. Yeah. So you would have to have kind of that very clear point made with each of the members that
00:26:13
Speaker
your experience is going to be wildly different from everyone else's. Yeah, just for you. We'll have to come back to that one day. Yeah, I like that. We'll let it marinate for a little bit. We'll unpack it later. Yeah, so change the subject a little bit. We had a joint experience earlier this week that got me to thinking too. It
00:26:35
Speaker
When you look at loyalty programs in particular, it's definitely a strategy that more and more companies are embracing today than ever before for many reasons. A lot of it has to do with getting their first and zero party data. Some of it is their competition has been doing it. Some of it's just, all right, we're ready. We believe that retention is important and that actually, if I've got really great customers, they're going to help me from acquisition perspective as well.
00:27:04
Speaker
But it also seems like there's a lot of companies that might want to but they don't quite know and that there's also one of the things that I guess I struggle with when we sell obviously technology for this stuff and it's.
00:27:19
Speaker
When you think about OK, someone's going to go by ESP, how hard is that to make a decision? Well, I'm going to send emails. I know I'm going to communicate with my customer. My message can change all the time, but if I do a loyalty program, that's like forever. And how do I make that commitment?
00:27:38
Speaker
And it seems like, how do we coach or help customers or you're talking to people a lot that are beginning to embark on this. Are there some guidelines that you give them of if your business looks like this, you should do it or you shouldn't do it? Or as we're getting into these conversations, people realize that these are the types of resources you're going to need. I don't envy where you sit because it almost seems like
00:28:06
Speaker
You've got to kind of put the fear of God into them to get started. But yeah, try to make it super positive that this is going to be this really amazing result when you really look at the results. Like, you know, I know North Face did a webinar last year and talked about 33% increase in overall revenue, which is huge. So it works, but it takes a long time to get there, right? Yes, yes, for sure. From my perspective, I don't think that there's like a certain type of brand or a certain type of company that I would say don't do loyalty.
00:28:37
Speaker
I think the difference comes in how does loyalty show up and what kind of loyalty do you have or what kind of a membership program do you have? And that is where as we work with our clients, we try very, very quickly within the first couple of weeks of the engagement to actually sit down and do do some workshopping with them that is both determining together the vision of loyalty and what the objectives are that we're
00:29:04
Speaker
we all across the organization. So we have stakeholders that are not just marketing stakeholders. We need every functional area that is going to touch loyalty to be in there so that we can get everyone aligned and everyone agree on what the vision is. As we go through then the process of design, which we have all of our multitude of steps, part of that is also understanding, looking at the customer base, looking at what they want, looking at how they react to things,
00:29:32
Speaker
and doing some thinking and some analysis around, does it make sense for this to be a free program for everybody? Does this need to be a tiered program? Does it make more sense for this to be a paid program? And we are seeing a lot more of those come into the marketplace as well, where not only does it offset the cost for the company and offsetting the cost means that you can deliver and provide greater benefits and value to the customer, but it also,
00:30:02
Speaker
It takes that extra step from the customer to really say, you know, I'm committed. I'm committed to this brand. I am ready to sign up. I'm ready to pay. Your active rate tends to be a lot higher. People are much more engaged. But the onus is really then bigger on the brand than a regular free loyalty program because you have to make sure that you're delivering that value. So I think those are some of the conversations that we have throughout is does this make sense for you? Which structure
Unique Brand Experiences in Loyalty
00:30:31
Speaker
makes sense for you, I guess?
00:30:32
Speaker
And if it's the paid one, are you prepared? That is on us, in my opinion, to make sure that our client is aware of these are the things that you're going to have to do to keep a paid program running the same way we would coach them on, here's what you have to do to have a free program that keeps running. It isn't set it and forget it. And I love that. I love your saying that it's, and loyalty is everything but set it and forget it because no matter what,
00:30:58
Speaker
But there is definitely, there has to be a lot more thought when people are giving you their hard-earned money in exchange for something bigger and better than what a regular customer gets. Yeah, I love that. And frankly, I posted something on LinkedIn just this last week about a bookstore that we're all familiar with who always had one of these programs, but now they've upped the price.
00:31:23
Speaker
And we're all speculating that there isn't enough additional value and their bookstore they compete with prime. It doesn't really make sense to take them head on and and what real value are you bringing and then there's the balance to that of.
00:31:40
Speaker
You are a bookstore your brick and mortar people who are actually going into the store enjoy that experience. So is there something more experiential that you can do and so it seems to it's like it's almost like people are looking at these programs still very separate from their brand.
00:32:00
Speaker
OK, there's this program thing. There's this tool or gadget almost that I can get that I think I'm going to plug into my business and it's just automatically going to raise my revenue versus my brand. And I think you were kind of saying this earlier is this is the vision I have for where the business needs to go and what our customers want. How do I enhance it and how do I use loyalty to do that?
00:32:24
Speaker
Yeah. And, and that's pretty interesting, I guess, still. And after all these years of us talking about loyalty, the people are, are still, I guess, maybe it's just in human nature. We're all just wanting that shiny thing that you're that, that pill that's going to help us all lose 20 pounds or whatever. Yes. If you find it, let me know. But yeah, and I agree. And it's what can I own in the marketplace that no one else can?
00:32:50
Speaker
And and this bookstore can own that in person. There is this for people who love to read. People who love books will understand when I say there is a smell to books. There is a smell to a bookstore that if you love books, you love that smell. You don't get that when you just log into Prime and have something show up on your doorstep. You get you have a book. So there's a little bit of the smell, but it's not the same. It's hard to browse. It's hard to browse online for the right book.
00:33:19
Speaker
the way that you can just kind of wander, right? Yeah, there's no adventure too, but there's an adventure when you go into the bookstore. And to your point, it's an experience. And so how can they really own that in-person experience so that I don't want to log in and have Prime deliver me my next read? How do you make sure that I want to drive to your store and do it that way? And
Adapting to Loyalty Trends and Conclusion
00:33:45
Speaker
I would agree. It feels like a very big mess.
00:33:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I wonder how we can continue. I guess we just have to continue having conversations like this and help coach people. I would love it, yes. Well, terrific. Well, that's all I had for right now. Do you have any other thoughts or anything else from the trends or maybe things that you're seeing in this space that we should share with the audience? No, I mean, I think, you know, you mentioned it in the trends report, you know, loyalty is ever changing. So I,
00:34:17
Speaker
I think the same way that you and I keep our eyes on the news and have our feeds, our news feeds every day and we go through to see what's going on. I encourage everyone who works in the loyalty space to do the same thing, whether you are leading a program, whether you're thinking about having a program.
00:34:36
Speaker
whether you participate in a program. It's really interesting to kind of keep up because if we look year over year, what we said was going to be a trend or a prediction for 21 didn't necessarily happen in 21. Every year there's something new that comes up that we did not anticipate. So don't just wait for trends reports to come out. Keep up to date with podcasts, with articles, with whatever's going on in the news, because it is really an ever evolving space. I love that.
00:35:05
Speaker
We're hiring a lot of people, too, and we're not hiring people that have been in the loyalty space. When we're having conversations, I'm always like, well, what programs are you involved in? And people will kind of just be blank face and then like, okay, you start with the airlines, they get that. And then they start thinking.
00:35:22
Speaker
Oh yeah Chipotle or you know everything that they're doing in their daily lives and I had one gentleman I remember talking to and there were like six or seven that he began like after a little while just began to rattle off because he hadn't even thought about it and then but then as they begin to realize and like oh yeah I do change my behavior to go do this and I do really like this for this reason and it is it's really truly amazing that there's a lot more we all know or could learn
00:35:52
Speaker
Just by, to your point, be more aware. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Jody, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me. We should do this more often. Yes, let's definitely. Thanks for listening to this episode of Get Personal with Loyalty. Join us next time for more loyalty insights. Until then, dare to dream. Let Annex Cloud help make your dreams a reality. Visit annexcloud.com.
00:36:22
Speaker
See you soon.