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Spencer Linsley on Communication, Empathy, and the Future of Benefits
9 Plays9 days ago
Most companies invest heavily in benefits, but employees still don’t understand or use them.
In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes sits down with Spencer Linsley, Head of Partnerships at Bright Benefits, to explore why the gap between benefits strategy and employee experience is, in fact, a communication problem. Drawing on his journey from ski patrol to SaaS partnerships, Spencer shares how empathy and clear messaging shape employees' perception of value.
They discuss why benefits often feel “broken,” even when strong packages are in place, and how a lack of understanding leads to low participation, poor utilization, and missed ROI. Spencer explains why leaders must move beyond treating benefits as a line item and instead see them as part of a broader employee value proposition.
The conversation also covers how culture forms at the team level, why employees underestimate their total rewards, and how better communication can quietly improve trust, retention, and engagement.
This episode is a must-watch for HR leaders, founders, and operators looking to turn benefits into a meaningful driver of culture and performance.
About Spencer:
Spencer Linsley is a seasoned business leader and partnership strategist with deep experience driving growth at the intersection of sales, partnerships, and tech-enabled solutions. Currently leading Partnerships at Brite Benefits, Spencer works at the forefront of modern benefits education — helping brokers, HR teams, and employers better communicate and engage around benefits in ways that are clear, confident, and impactful.
Before joining Brite, Spencer spent several years shaping strategic alliances and revenue growth in the HR tech space, including leadership roles in sales and partnerships at Awardco, where he connected innovative solutions with enterprise customers and ecosystem partners.
His career journey — from sales leadership to partnership development — underscores his belief in building trust, aligning cross-functional teams, and leveraging strategic collaboration to unlock long-term value.
Originally from the Bay Area, Spencer now calls the Salt Lake Valley and Wasatch Front home. He enjoys all things outdoors — skiing, hiking, camping, and spending as much time outside as possible, especially playing and adventuring with his two daughters.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello again, everyone. This is another installment of Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these episodes, I sit down with the people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes. and My guest today is Spencer Lindsley.
00:00:19
Speaker
Spencer is a seasoned business leader and partnership strategist with deep experience driving growth at the intersection of sales, partnerships, and and tech-enabled solutions. Currently leading partnerships at Bright Benefits, Spencer works at the forefront of modern benefits education, helping brokers, ah HR teams, and employers better communicate and engage around benefits in a way in ways that are clear, confident, and impactful.
Spencer's Career Path and Personal Life
00:00:44
Speaker
Before joining ah Bright, Spencer spent several years shaping strategic alliances and revenue growth in the ah HR tech space, including leadership roles in sales and partnerships at AwardCo, where he connected innovative solutions with enterprise customers and ecosystem partners.
00:01:01
Speaker
His career journey from sales leadership to partnership development underscores his belief in building trust, aligning cross-functional teams, and leveraging strategic collaboration to unlock long-term value.
00:01:13
Speaker
Originally from the Bay Area, Spencer now calls Salt Lake Valley and Wasatch Front home. He enjoys all things outdoors, skiing, hiking, camping, and spending as much time outside as possible, especially playing and adventuring with his two daughters. Welcome to Behind the Build. Thanks for joining me, Spencer.
00:01:32
Speaker
Absolutely. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. that ah That was quite a mouthful. You've done quite a bit. First of all, I have to say, also a girl dad. And it's kind of the coolest thing ever.
00:01:46
Speaker
So I know you have a new addition. We do. We do. Ruby, our my second daughter joined us just over four weeks ago. So we're, uh, she's a fresh one and she loves hanging out with mom and she's doing really, really well, growing fast, eating well, uh, sleeping a lot. So all of the things you would, uh, wish for and and hope to see in a, in a new baby girl.
00:02:11
Speaker
So we're very fortunate, very lucky and feeling blessed. Well, congratulations. Super happy for you and your family. That's really amazing. Um, Let's start a little bit with your story.
00:02:23
Speaker
I'm really curious to hear. i mean, tell me about yourself. Tell me about that career journey, right? What pulled you into the world of benefits and total rewards? That's, ah you know, usually we're not mapping that out in high school.
00:02:34
Speaker
No, we're not. And yeah, I think my journey is is interesting. And like so many others, it ah wasn't a straight line to to to get to the place that I am here today. So yeah, I guess ah starting at the at the top, my family relocated from the the Bay Area, um San Francisco. to Salt Lake City, Utah in the the summer of 1999. My mother had her own business and worked remotely before remote work was ah was a big thing. And so we we moved to Utah because we love the mountains and we love skiing and we we loved
00:03:15
Speaker
ah both winter and summer recreation. So and that's that's how I got here. I went to high school here um with with ah my siblings. And ah immediately after high school, I started at the University of Utah, where I originally was studying geophysics and geology, oh and a great place to do that here in Utah. And it was super intense. And um at, you know, 17 going on 18 years old, it wasn't what I wanted to do.
00:03:47
Speaker
So I stopped doing that. And I started working at one of our local ski resorts here, Solitude Mountain Resort. And I took a couple years off of higher ed and got some tactical skills and experience, i became an EMT, a backcountry rescue worker, did avalanche mitigation work.
00:04:07
Speaker
and then started going back to business school and i remember at the time i kind of thought hey i i love uh the outdoors i love the outdoor industry and maybe there's a place to me a place for me to find some sort of intersection of business and skiing,
Transition to SaaS and Personal Growth
00:04:28
Speaker
right? And that was kind of my vision at the time.
00:04:32
Speaker
Little did I know, ah coming out of the business school at um University of Utah there, a good friend of mine said, hey, I'm working for this company. It's pretty cool, pays good. They have some entry-level positions um you should interview.
00:04:47
Speaker
and that's how i started in the world of sas i started kind of on the client management account management side of things and ah the company was the costar group and it was kind of commercial real estate information and digital marketing solutions and i did that for four years little over four years i think and uh love love my time there uh tons of great experience, my first kind of introduction into corporate life, if you will, you know, multinational organization, 5000 employees, really large sales organization, and kind of moved up the ranks on the client side into sales.
00:05:26
Speaker
And the rest was really history, right? Sales became my my craft and my profession. And um something that I was passionate about because ah it it kind of changed the landscape for me and and how I thought about how I could create a life and a career and and financially support a future family. And I guess also relevant to say right around the same time, i I met the girl who ended up um being my wife and ah a lot of a lot of maturing and personal growth happened kind of realizing what it would take to kind of move to a person who would be considered ah a husband versus a person who ah was okay living out of a van outside the ski resort and and you know living living in ski boots and on the mountain so
00:06:23
Speaker
That's the the first foray. And from there, im happy to talk a little bit about how I got into ah HR technology and and where I'm at now. But um usually there's a couple of questions as to what was it like being a ski patroller or anything like that? So I'm happy to field those now or move on. Yeah. Well, first I would say I'm super happy that you actually see and draw the distinction between the husband material versus the guy who's totally cool living outside of a van at the bottom of a mountain, because like there are some who don't see the distinction between the two. So, um, you're sort of spot on right there. um It's really interesting to me. I mean,
00:07:05
Speaker
i you're right. Most of our our paths are nonlinear, right? But there's always something that kind of pulls you in a direction or takes you somewhere, right, where you're able to add value that I think aligns with your own personal mission, right?
00:07:21
Speaker
um you know You wind up working for organizations now. um and And this is me just sort of projecting a little bit, but you know you found ah a career and opportunities you know in sales and and partnerships and working in a space that helps people, helps people right that helps people ah feel better at work, who do better work. right But you're also working on ski patrol, right which is another way of helping people. You're helping people get up the mountain. You're helping people get down the mountain, you know, in in sort of a a metaphoric sense, that's exactly kind of what you're doing, right. With the software that you, uh, that you help sell and that you help partner your help people get up and down the mountain. Right. So it sort of feeds that, uh, that, that part of you.
00:08:07
Speaker
Again, I'm projecting, but I kind of, I kind of see that through the interactions, you know, that, that that we've had in the little that I've gotten to know you before this, you know, I can kind of, I can kind of sense that. Am I, am I hitting the nail on there?
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think you definitely are. right And it's it's interesting because I remember interviewing for that first job at at CoStar. And I was on a final interview with the vice president of sales, who is a really cool guy, also a skier.
00:08:35
Speaker
And I kind of remember him mentioning this comment off the cough of cuff of just kind of saying like, you know, you seem, you seem bright, articulate, but you're just really not the person that we're looking for, for for this role. And i remember kind of thinking like, well, you know, why, um you know, what, what exactly am am I lacking to get into this role? What is it about my, you know, skills, attributes, or maybe my character traits that's making me not a good fit?
00:09:03
Speaker
And that kind of always put a chip on my shoulder um because, you know, as ah as a curious person and and a person who prides himself on being able to work hard, um i was like, well, I should be able to do everything. You know, i was I was young at that point and I was like, okay, this isn't, you know, rocket science, I guess. Like we're we're dealing with human beings and technology and trying to understand the outcomes that they're they're hoping to get to and and help them get to that that promised land.
Role and Philosophy at Bright Benefits
00:09:35
Speaker
But I remember, you know, early days, it was like, okay, it was a it was a culture shock. And I just kind of thought this is the way things must be, right? If you if you want to work in a high paying corporate job, there's going to be elements, there's going to be components that are just not great, right? And that's just part of it. And i' I'll weave this into when I went to AwardCo and how that changed for me. But I always kind of viewed my time on the mountain and working as a ski patroller as it's foundational to who I am now and and really kind of building the
00:10:11
Speaker
base level of of skills that that did translate into kind of corporate and knowledge professional work. Right. And the biggest things I think that I can point back to were, you know, leadership, communication and um just the philosophy that wherever you work, um you know, I wouldn't say ski patrolling that the old adage that the customer is always right, because a lot of times in those environments, the customer is very much not right. But at the same time, like you you serve others, right? You serve your team around you and you serve others. um And
00:10:46
Speaker
Those types of ah kind of philosophical points of view have really been ingrained in me and i've have ah served me well as I've adapted to new work environments um and and you know continue to strive to add value um with all of the interactions that I have with others.
00:11:05
Speaker
I love that. I love that. And now you're with Bright Benefits, right? so and So tell me a little bit about it. What is Bright Benefits? What are the problems that you're trying to solve for employers? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So joined Bright last year and ah joined after really, really amazing four plus years AwardCo and started here as the the head of partnerships reporting into our CEO, Landon Fielding, who is an amazing individual.
00:11:36
Speaker
Bright, really, and our most simplest You know, and the most most simple way to put it, we are our vision is to become a platform where all benefit education work happens and it empowers the individuals who do that work, primarily brokers and ah HR teams.
00:11:57
Speaker
Part of the reason I was so drawn to this company when I was evaluating potentially leaving AwardCo was ah just the inception story where yeah you know I'm just a firm believer that the founder story is is really quite important. And the the short of it is that we are a tech technology technology, a platform that was built by a broker with broker pain points in mind.
00:12:26
Speaker
um and And really with the general thought of how do I create a scalable, modern technology first ah process for educating employees um and educating employees?
00:12:40
Speaker
you know, employers or empowering employers to educate their employees on the very convoluted and nuanced topics of benefits. um we We work directly with brokers. We work with HR teams. We work with many others in the benefit ecosystem.
00:12:56
Speaker
And we kind of view ourselves as a company that could become really an ecosystem layer, interconnected tissue, if you will, between all of the stakeholders that come together to do this work on behalf of the human beings that are covered at the end of the day by these employer-sponsored benefit plans.
00:13:17
Speaker
And that layer is missing. I mean, it's not, well, now it's not, but but you know there's there's a need for it. um I can see the need for it, you know just from the conversations that I have on ah on a weekly basis. um you know I don't know if you see this yeah at at Bright, but it seems like you know many leaders still view you know benefits as a line item, a necessary expense. I mean, from your experience, I'm curious, you know where does that mindset fall short?
00:13:50
Speaker
Let me give you a little bit more context to the question. it is a line item. It is a necessary expense, right? I'm not talking about entirely shifting the mindset because we have to accept, you know, what reality it is.
00:14:08
Speaker
But I think that it looking at it that way is um incredibly narrow-minded, I think, when it's ah just in a vacuum like that. And I'm kind of curious from your perspective, again, um what do you see happens with leaders who are looking at it through that narrow lens?
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question and an important call out to to think about. I would very much agree that it is a line item and it's it's ah it's a large item line item, right? Maybe one of the largest outside of yeah straight compensation and payroll for for most companies out there.
00:14:53
Speaker
But it's a line item that oftentimes, you gets kind of overlooked as far as what can we do to make sure that we're getting the best and the maximum possible ROI on this line item?
00:15:08
Speaker
And what does this line item exist to do and and and who to serve, right? And I think taking a step back and thinking about it through that lens of at the end of the day, um we're offering these things for the human beings who who work at this organization.
00:15:26
Speaker
And ah sure, there is um legal requirements. um You know, employers are required to do certain things, but because you're required to do it doesn't mean that you should do the bare minimum or kind of not evaluate the impact that it's having when you overlay it on the employee value proposition. I think there's been a shift in the in the market over the last few years. um And I saw this from my time at AwardCo where more and more employers are starting to to realize and recognize that they have to do more to attract and retain the best people.
00:16:03
Speaker
And everybody wants to attract and retain the best people. And I think with shifting demographics in the workplace being one factor where we're looking at such a large percentage of the working population is now becoming millennials and Gen Zs. um I think the tactics that used to work decades ago just just simply won't work anymore. I remember a lot conversations, sales conversations at AwardCo talking to, you know, business owners, ah HR leadership, both in small business and large, large business. And there was always a pretty percentage of of folks i would just say, well, we're we're paying our employees. Like, shouldn't that be enough? Like, shouldn't the paycheck be enough? Like, that's why they're here to do the work. And I think, um
00:16:49
Speaker
I think across all industries, there's there's kind of been this recognition where um that's just it's simply no longer the case. People value, there's a lot of data out there and people value different things. People value a company that has a real purpose and the purpose that they can align with. People value ah autonomy. and the ability to be challenged and to to master skills. And right there's there's a whole spectrum of where employees are going to land on this. um But I think that kind of ah macro shift, if you will, is
00:17:22
Speaker
is lifting a lot of technology organizations that um are driving real solutions and real outcomes when it comes to better empowering leaders um and better fostering cultures that that that drive better performance. And um my personal opinion is that cultures of appreciation um are going to do a good job of kind of balancing intrinsic and extrinsic motivation on the employee level.
Challenges in Benefit Offerings
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah, i would um I second that motion. Probably would be in the wrong business if I didn't. But um you know it kind of leads me to, you you'll hear companies say, you know our benefits aren't working. You probably heard that a million times when you were at AwardCo. You probably still hear that now. um you know I'm curious what you've found when you're when you hear things like that, what's usually happening broken, right, within within their, you know, packages or or how they approach these things. I know that choice and flexibility often come up a lot in in benefits conversations. There's a generational gap now, especially, um you know, where you may have multiple generations who want very different things, you know, and I guess when we look at what's broken, I'm curious if
00:18:52
Speaker
You know, a lot of it has to do with leadership mindset, like we just talked about. If some of it has to do with the actual mechanics of what it is that people are getting and they're using.
00:19:03
Speaker
And how long has this been going on, you know, as being problematic? There you go. A single question with like a hundred parts to it. Yeah. Jeez. How do i how do I take this piece by piece? Well, I'm going to start with the area that like really resonated with me, just this concept of what's, what's broken.
00:19:23
Speaker
And I would posit that, it it may not be broken. It may be more of a symptom of lack of understanding, lack of good communication and and lack of empathy. And I'll share a specific example.
00:19:40
Speaker
So when I started at Award Co, my wife was pregnant with my my first daughter and I don't remember going through my benefit elections and that was never anything that was on on my mind um at that time in my life.
00:19:53
Speaker
remember saying, awesome, there's there's health coverage. Seems like there's a couple plan. I can get dental and vision. And that's probably all I'm going to do Actually, I'm not going to do vision because I i don't have contacts and they're just my my wife. we We don't wear glasses. So that was like my level of understanding. And even looking at the health plan, it was like, well, I'm generally young, view myself as pretty healthy, we're pretty healthy, like I think the high deductible plan is is probably the best option. Could I explain why I chose one plan over another? Like, absolutely not. It was just like, a versus B, what is the monthly cost? This one's more expensive, probably a better plan. You know, here's the network, that means nothing to me.
00:20:32
Speaker
It's inherently a confusing conversation. Now, fast forward, i just had my second daughter and I now work in this industry and I talk about these things every single day, day in, day out, and I'm doing my best to understand so I can communicate and teach others um that there's something called a hospital indemnity plan. That may be something to evaluate if you know you're going to have a child and have a hospital stay. You know, maybe if you have young kids and you're very active, you can consider an accident policy.
00:21:04
Speaker
So I think so many companies are really putting in the effort to create really, really well thought out and comprehensive, robust um benefit designs and benefit packages. I think the disconnect or what's broken, if you will, to close the loop on that is is not the the work that the employers are doing, putting it all together or the work that the the broker is doing on behalf of the employee of doing a ah good job of of kind of shopping the right packages and implementing and putting everything together. that the disconnect may just be how all that work actually reaches the employees. Like where is the execution on the strategy?
00:21:46
Speaker
And if you're not executing on the strategy that you're doing, then you're not going to get a good return on the massive investment that you're making into the program. So um lack of participation is a problem. um Lack of understanding is a problem.
00:22:03
Speaker
Lack of actual benefit usage is is a problem.
Impact of Benefits on Company Culture
00:22:07
Speaker
And I think all of those all of those have challenges. potential solutions and and from our point of view, very, very strong solutions when it comes to just better education. um A more informed consumer, a more informed human being is is going to make a better choice when it comes to what they will select and what they won't select when it comes to protecting themselves and their families.
00:22:32
Speaker
You know, I'm e i'm curious, and something tells me I have a ah good idea of of how you might answer this because we, we come from a little bit of the same, um I think mindset, but you know, when people leave, um, when people leave a company, you know, or, or a team or whatnot, you know, there's a lot of talk about leaving the leadership, leaving the manager or management, the working conditions, right. The, the team dynamics, the expectations, um,
00:23:09
Speaker
And all those things are very real and and and probably, you know, arguably could be some of the biggest drivers behind churn. I'm curious how how you feel that benefits like sort of quietly influence the the trust, the engagement, that culture, the retention, even when employees don't really talk about them as much directly. Yeah.
00:23:33
Speaker
um right? I mean, we have platforms like AwardCo. We have platforms like MustardHub and Bonusly and Achievers and all these great, really sophisticated platforms that do things to help develop and build better cultures and better workplaces um because we know the impact of a not good workplace. um But sometimes when we talk about what churn looks like and maybe why it even exists to the level it does in some places, we're not always talking about benefits, but we know that benefits influence these things.
00:24:13
Speaker
Kind of curious how much you feel like it does or in what ways, even though we're not talking about them directly. Yeah, it's a really great question. And there's there's two pieces that I want to address in it. And kind of starting with the benefits portion, I think i think it's safe to say and safe to assume that most most individuals, most employees probably don't have a very, very clear understanding or good picture of the actual dollar amounts that their benefits are are worth. And we used to say um a lot at AwardCo when we're talking about the you know voluntary attrition, right, and employee leaving. And we always talked about, hey, if you have a strong culture where people feel value, seen, and appreciated, it's not likely that they're going to go take an interview at the the company next door for 25 pay bump.
00:25:11
Speaker
um or you know if for're talking salary um You know, if if the the amount of effort to change is usually a ah blocker, so there has to be kind of a ah larger gap there, right? Like i'm I'm getting very underpaid and I think I can go to this other other shop that's going to pay me more. Well, I think when employees really understand and kind of layer in benefits as part of that financial equation, they may realize that that $10,000 bump on your base salary
00:25:42
Speaker
is not actually going to equate to $10,000 extra in your pocket for you per year. If you look at kind of the full package of what your company is offering you from ah a full total rewards perspective. And there's a lot of incredible companies out there that are solving this specific problem with total reward statements that are showing you not only compensation, but also the value of your benefits. So I think there's kind of the the hard cost component there. And then there's also the um
00:26:13
Speaker
the fuzzier, if you will, the the less tangible impact of what I was alluding to earlier, of people that just feel a sense of belonging, a sense of purpose on their team are just going to be more focused on their work and their performance than they are going to be on looking at kind of what's next, right? Grass is always greener, sort of a adage. So that was, that's kind of the the first component that I would say. The second component i I may kind of go off on a tangent here a little bit, but you know I experienced this when i when I left CoStar and I went to AwardCo. you know I joined AwardCo the beginning of 2021. We were right in the middle of COVID and I left a publicly traded, very secure company company to go to an ah HR tech startup. And I remember when I landed and became integrated with the team and just just felt like a motivation unlike any other that I had felt in my entire career up to that point, um at least in kind of the SaaS corporate side of things, was, you know, culture culture matters, right? And ah doing doing hard work um is a lot more meaningful when, you feel alignment with the purpose of that hard work and you feel alignment and connection with the team that you're on.
00:27:35
Speaker
Over time, towards the end of my my experience at CoStar, it started to feel pretty pretty toxic. And I remember in my head, I was just thinking, well, this is just life. If if you want to work um for a great company and if you want to have good benefits and good pay, there's going to be some downsides that you just have to accept. And I think the world has changed where that's that's no longer the case. right I think there's companies out there that can open up incredible opportunities for people where you don't have to have the Sunday scaries every night. And um when I think about culture as well, the the other thing to to layer in here is I think culture is going to be um fluid and very different if you're working for a small company for and versus working for a big company. And I remember I was thinking that, you know, the CEO sets the culture, right? Your executive leadership, the people at the top who are driving the mission and the vision, those are the people that set the culture for the company.
00:28:37
Speaker
Well, over time, I so changed my perspective and my mind on that, where I'm a firm believer now that culture happens at a much, much smaller level. Culture culture happens on your team. And you mentioned a point that you hear about people leaving a bad manager.
00:28:53
Speaker
that's That's the truth. You could be at a company that has the best comp, the best plans, the best benefit plans, the best product, and you know incredible CEO, um you know, visionary, great culture at the top level. But if you have a bad manager that's micromanaging you or, you know, diminishing you in one way or another, that is your reality.
00:29:16
Speaker
You come into work and you're on that team, right? um You don't, You know, maybe once you're, you know, if you're on a 20 employee company, then you have direct access to the CEO. But when you're at a 500 employee company or a thousand or 10,000 employee company, culture comes in in pockets and that happens at the team level.
00:29:36
Speaker
So I remember years back listening to a talk and then reading his book after Marcus Buckingham wrote the book book Love and Work. And he talks about that where he mentions that the highest level of leaders, they actually set and establish your talent brand.
00:29:51
Speaker
But culture, again, happens at the the team team level, um which I thought was a really important distinction when we talk about driving manager effectiveness, high performance at the t team level. And at the end of the day retention is is going to happen on that kind of direct rapport level.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, i I love that you said that. And like I really couldn't agree more. How would you feel that like, you know tying this back to sort of what what Bright does, you know, the lack of clarity, poor communication around benefits or compensation and total rewards. How would you how do you feel um that it you know Or how do you see it erode the the the employee experience you know over time, right? a lack of transparency here seems like it would be concerning, I think, for a lot of workers. Or is it just the responsibility of the worker to figure it out on their own? Yeah.
00:30:53
Speaker
Great question. And I think you could probably ask that same question to different people within the business and get a bunch of different answers. been If we're talking to folks that are sitting within the the ah HR organization, right, they, um you know, there's going to be a spectrum, not everyone's created equal, but I think generally speaking, if I could put a blanket statement, those folks are going to care a lot more about the employee experience and making sure that, know, Everything from a comp and Ben and everything human is, um you know, has its space on on the stage. I think when you start getting into different parts of organizations, whether it's sales or operations or executive leadership, I think a lot of times what will happen is,
00:31:40
Speaker
The, you know, the primary goals will just take center stage and everything else is going to fall to the wayside. um So, you know, I think that's going to be the the the problem and and the disconnect there is just understanding how all of the different parts of a business can kind of be rowing in the same direction when it comes to really being intentional and diligent about thinking about your employees experience.
Founder's Role in Benefit Strategy
00:32:09
Speaker
um And you know there's a lot of great companies out there that are doing amazing things when it comes to employee experience and employee engagement and you know connecting a company's organizational purpose and their core values to daily behaviors. um
00:32:28
Speaker
But, you know, I think it's it's no it's not a simple question, right, because at the end of the day, businesses exist for a specific reason. And, um you know, the employees can serve that reason um and and kind of fall in line or, you know.
00:32:48
Speaker
they may not be be valued in the way or driven to kind of rise to the potential, to the capacity of their potential um in in a way that's gonna foster the right growth that at at the end of the day does benefit that the employer organization.
00:33:04
Speaker
So um I think it's ah it's a question that's really important and I'm i'm glad that we're talking about it, but um you know i don't think there's one simple simple way to to view it.
00:33:16
Speaker
Well, if a founder or an operator, you know, only had the bandwidth to like improve one aspect of their benefit strategy, you know, where should they start?
00:33:28
Speaker
What's your first, ah you know, recommendation to ah to somebody in that situation? By the way, I'm not prefacing this with any particular problem they're having in mind. So we're just going to start generally speaking. Yeah.
00:33:43
Speaker
if If I could boil it down to to one thing that I think is the most important is is communication, clear communication um with with a little bit of empathy, right? kind of Understanding the the human condition a little bit and that ah you know at the end of the day, your employees are humans. um I know ah there's probably some folks that are... um thinking about how that could change in the not so distant future with agentic But I think, yeah, the the founders, the the leaders, and whether that's at the manager, the frontline manager level, or the department head level, or at the executive level, I think, being very, very clear in communicating, um you know, what what the benefits are, what they do, and and probably even at more of a basic level that they're really there and it's an investment to support the people, right? It's something that they're doing for you. And um yeah, communicating down and also being willing to receive communication up as well, right? Actually receive feedback from people Listen and receive feedback from your employees and and acknowledge that you heard it and act on it if you can.
00:35:07
Speaker
Well, then what's the risk of doing nothing? Status quo, you know, when what's the risk of doing nothing when it comes to these kind of benefits? Well, I think the most immediate risk is cost containment, right? If you're investing a lot in these benefits and, you know, it's hard to, at least in the world that I'm in, hop on LinkedIn and not see, you know, posts about, um you know,
00:35:33
Speaker
costs going up, right? The the number goes up and to the right. um You know, healthcare care is is not getting cheaper. um that The system is evolving, but there's components of it, and incentive structures that are maybe not aligned in in the way to, again, focus on the end user as the as the the the primary point of focus.
Future of Benefits and Personalization
00:35:55
Speaker
um
00:35:59
Speaker
but Yeah, I think I would probably leave it there. How do you see benefits evolving? I mean, ah as the expectations around work and flexibility and loyalty kind of continue to to change, right? I mean, we're we're getting into the future of work.
00:36:13
Speaker
There's so many different things changing. you know how do you Do you see benefits evolving along with it in some particular way if we had to sort of look out into the future? Yeah, i I think there's going to be a lot of evolution and I think there's going to be a lot of change in the coming years. I think artificial intelligence is is going to be center of stage. And I think um there's going to be a lot of noise out there um and the companies that are able to, ah you know, clearly demonstrate technology.
00:36:47
Speaker
problems and in challenges that can be solved or efficiencies gained, real real outcomes delivered are going to be kind of the winners and the ones that come out of all of the noise. um I think we talked earlier about just ah diversity in the workforce. um So, you know, there's there's age demographics, but there's a lot of other demographics that um make a workforce very diverse. And I think we're going to see more and more of a push push towards personalization, um right? What's going to be the right mix of benefits for one person may not necessarily be the right mix of benefits for the next person. And i think companies have a ah tall task of figuring out how to balance best in class versus personalization because you can't offer everything. um So, yeah, I think AI personalization and um just how, again, we reach and interact with the individual um is is going to be the biggest biggest points of evolution and over the next two, three years, in my opinion.
00:37:59
Speaker
Do you think that there are benefits or rewards that matter more you know but not necessarily less, but really yeah more over over the next few years.
00:38:11
Speaker
And it's interesting, like your insight from AwardCo all the way up to now, right, with Bright, I'm interested to kind of hear your it through your your point of view.
00:38:23
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's a great question. And I think that's a question that I'm still curious about and and trying to to learn. I think um you You hear a lot in market right now about how the health side of the benefit world needs to change. And I think you know a lot of these employers that have been just just kind of doing the same thing year over year and just stomaching these significant price increases, um at a certain point, you're going to hit it kind of the breaking point where it's it's no longer sustainable and and attainable. And I think um Anytime you get a lot of friction or strong problems, I think there's generally folks that rise up and provide innovative solutions in those areas. So I think there's going to be a lot of lot of additional innovation, both structurally um and and process related when it comes to the health side of things. um I think
00:39:26
Speaker
on uh you know voluntary benefits and kind of fringe flex benefits i think uh that that shift towards personalization um is is going to be something that we see and the personalization is really only going to be successful when it's coupled with good understanding and good education right i alluded to earlier like I didn't know that these things existed, but now I do. And, you know, a hospital indemnity plan is something that could really make an impact on me personally. um an accident plan, you know, there's a lot of different um products out there that that may be good fit for folks when they take the time um and they're they're guided to better understanding those those things.
00:40:13
Speaker
Kind of want to wrap up with this this question. i loved I feel like you're the guy to answer this question. But you know if if if a business leader were to were to walk up to you, Spencer, and and ask, you know they they want to build a workplace where people feel supported and feel valued, they don't want to over-engineer, they can't, right their benefits. What's the single most important piece of advice, beyond communication, obviously, yeah that you would give them?
00:40:45
Speaker
What a great question. Yeah. the If it's a single piece of advice, I think I think i would just say be empathetic.
00:40:56
Speaker
um and And really, really be kind of conscious of of how you can overlay empathy onto the decisions that you make when you're thinking about how you want to create an environment ah for your your people that you work with or that work for you to to thrive. And um I don't think there is a better way to do it than through empathy. I don't think there is a better way to truly motivate folks through authentic connection than through vulnerability and empathy. So, you know, that that that goes to benefits, but I think that also goes to, um you know, compensation and and and really everything when it comes to, again, that that um
00:41:43
Speaker
really, really important relationship between an employee and an employer. So, yeah, I think, you know, and and maybe maybe that's on my mind because, um you know, I just finished Satya Nadella's, the Microsoft CEO's book where he just talks about, he just bangs it over the head, you know, empathy and the importance of empathy. um But I think um at the end of the day, right, we're talking about human beings. And I think making sure that we recognize that they are human and we are human, you know, at least for now, um is is really, really important.
00:42:22
Speaker
I'd that in there. Yeah. Very good. I love it, Spencer. That makes a lot of sense. You know, i appreciate you. This has been a great ah a great um chat and and i'm I'm so glad you were able to join me today. So I just wanted to to thank you for that.
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation as well. And like I said, the first time we met, I'm really, really passionate about the work that you're doing. And so ah let's continue rising the tides.
00:42:52
Speaker
We absolutely will. And congratulations again to your family. Also a big thank you to all you watching and listening to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.
00:43:04
Speaker
Please visit mustardhub.com to learn more about Mustard Hub and discover how we help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge. Until next time.