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JT Thiessen on What Makes Franchising Work
6 Plays3 days ago
Franchising isn’t about systems alone. It’s about people.
In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes sits down with JT Thiessen, a 33-year veteran of the franchise industry who has helped grow and develop 18 different brands. JT shares how an early college project unexpectedly launched his career, why franchising is a distribution model, and what founders often misunderstand about growth.
The conversation explores what makes a business truly ready to franchise, how to vet both brands and franchisees, and why listening is the most underrated leadership skill in the franchise world. JT also discusses hiring and retention challenges, the impact of AI on frontline and entry-level work, and why human skills like empathy and communication will matter more — not less — in the future of work.
This episode is a must-watch for franchisors, franchisees, and operators building people-driven businesses at scale.
About JT:
JT is a 33-year veteran of the franchise industry, where he has had the good fortune of leading Development teams for 18 brands. His passion for franchising stems from the positive transformations that he has witnessed in the lives of his teammates and the franchisees he put in business, including his mother, brother, sisters, and nephew. He resides in Coto de Caza, CA, with his wife and two college-age children.
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Transcript
Introduction to Mustard Hub Voices and JT Thiessen
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome back for another installment of Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these episodes, I sit down for conversations with people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes.
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome to today's Fireside Chat. My guest today is JT Thiessen. JT is a thirty three year veteran of the franchise industry, where he's had the good fortune in leading development teams for 18, you heard that right, 18 brands.
JT's Franchising Passion and Southern California Connection
00:00:35
Speaker
His passion for franchising stems from the positive transformations that he's witnessed in the lives of his teammates, the franchisees he's put in business, including his mother, brother, sisters, and nephew.
00:00:49
Speaker
He resides in Cota de Casa, California with his wife and two college-age children. Um, JT, all of my, uh, my in-laws also are, are probably neighbors of yours. So I share uh, you know, uh, a love of, a love of Southern California. Um, you have such a passion for franchising.
00:01:14
Speaker
So they do before we jump into everything else, where did this passion come from? Like what brought you to franchising? Oh, it's a long story. I'll try not to to go all the way back. But, you know, it's interesting. You know, when I went to college a long, long time ago, um there wasn't these classes on franchising that they have now, entrepreneurship or anything along those
JT's Franchising Journey from College to Career
00:01:39
Speaker
lines. Right. Which is actually pretty interesting. cause I've actually been able to go back and and teach in some of those schools now and giving back. And it's so cool to see the young kids that are getting into franchising at ah an early level. For me, it was kind of a ah two week part of our economics class or a finance class or something that we did, which is introducing franchising.
00:01:59
Speaker
And, you know, the project was send away for ah what was called a UFOC at the time, an FDD today ah from any franchise that you want and then write a report about it. And I remember sending away for a an FDD for TGIF Fridays.
00:02:17
Speaker
And they sent me this great big thick book on how to open a TGIF Fridays. And and I was sitting there going, i was just amazed by it. Like, here's a kid with 50 bucks in his bank account that probably was out drinking beer last night. And and here you're giving me the keys to this TGIF castle.
00:02:34
Speaker
And i I just couldn't believe it. So i I think I wrote a pretty good report. And as a result of that, my... The professor pulled me aside and said, hey, I know you were thinking about going and doing some other things after school. I was probably leaning in on law school. And I said, but I've got an opportunity with a company that's looking to hire someone young to help them franchise their business and wondered if you'd be interested in looking at that. And so i i said, sure, why not? you know I'm tired of being poor. And and so i I went and started working for a little company called Remax.
00:03:08
Speaker
which no one had ever heard of at the time. And, um you know, they they were just getting started in franchising and I didn't know anything about franchising. I never sold anything before in my life. I certainly didn't know anything about the real estate business, but just launched into it, had a great mentor. And and it all started right there with 3Max and I've never left 33 years later.
Educational Role and Brand One's Mission
00:03:30
Speaker
it's ah It's crazy how, like you were just saying, they don't have, or they didn't, they didn't have classes, they didn't have fields of study for this kind of stuff. And yet now, you know, after three decades of experience, or more than three decades of experience, right, you're going back to teach these classes, your experience has essentially become the textbook, right? The textbook that you know younger people are using um you know to learn about that space, um which is ah which is pretty incredible actually to to think about it. It really is. i i went down to San Diego State two weeks ago and taught. They take an entire semester on franchising.
00:04:12
Speaker
And then I had about 20 kids hit me up on LinkedIn. It's like, hey, I want to learn more from you. And can you be my mentor? And I love that stuff. Right. It's hey, we're starting at an early age now where we need to get younger people into the business and learn about it. And what an opportunity.
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah. So now you're at Brand One as a chief growth officer. um Tell me a little bit about Brand One. what What is Brand One?
00:04:36
Speaker
Sure. So Brand One is what is... affectionately or maybe not so known as ah an FSO in the franchise world, a franchise sales organization. So I have four other partners. They started the business a while back. I joined it more recently. But basically what we do is we work with brands that do not want to develop their brands internally for whatever reason. They could be emerging.
00:05:03
Speaker
and they don't know how ah or they don't have the contacts, they don't have the ins with the broker groups, they um they've never sold a franchise before in their life. you know they're They're really good at at their plumbing or their ah power washing or you know selling blinds or whatever is they do, but they don't understand the franchise world from that standpoint. So they need our expertise um and our know-how in terms of how to develop those brands and and to grow and to get good people into their brands. And then in some cases, we've got people that just have very established brands, but for whatever reason, budgetary, or maybe they've but they've run into a bit of a rut with an internal team, they've decided to outsource that franchise development piece as well. And so we'll work with them. We just ah signed back up with Menchie's frozen yogurt as an example, which
00:05:52
Speaker
is a brand that has hundreds and hundreds of franchise stores already. But they wanted to have us come in and sort of help them take to the next level. And so we have some very established brands that we'll work with as well.
00:06:03
Speaker
So is it primarily um selling additional ah franchise businesses or almost more of like a marketing and brand development? Or does that or do those things kind of go together?
00:06:16
Speaker
it it can be It can be both. Primarily what we're doing is growing the franchise through finding qualified candidates that that want to become franchisees of theirs. That's our end goal on everything that we do. Now, depending on where they're coming in and where they're starting, um they may not have an FDD. They may not have a website. And so we get very involved in in building all of that out before we take it to market. In some cases, they have all those assets and that collateral arrive already. And so we're just plugging and playing and jumping in and starting work with the candidates.
00:06:46
Speaker
So what does your role look like? What's the responsibility of the chief growth officer? yeah Probably a little bit of everything, I'd imagine. That's a good question. you know it's ah All the five partners, we all kind of do the same thing. We just have different titles. um But basically, we're out looking for really great concepts and brands that we can help franchise. And so we're all... sort of having meetings with companies that are up and coming and trying to decide whether they're ready for prime time or not because a lot of times people think that they are ready to franchise um and they're not and it's a tough conversation sometimes but we say hey listen go go do this and that and whether it's you know
00:07:28
Speaker
improve the system a little bit longer. Or open up a company store or something along those lines, or it could be go find some more money because it's not cheap to get into franchising and you need to make sure that you're collateralized the right way. So we're out looking for those brands and then we kind of herd them up and bring them in as partners and talk about what do we want to add? Because we've got We can't just bring on everybody in the system. We've got limited bandwidth in terms of what we can operate. Currently today, I think we're at about 20.
00:07:57
Speaker
ah we awarded two We brought in two yesterday to about 22 brands that that are under our purview.
Brand Selection and People Skills in Franchising
00:08:02
Speaker
um And then we each partner takes a brand and is the partner in charge of that brand. And then we build teams underneath us that are actually going out and working with the candidates every single day to to grow those brands and sell the franchises.
00:08:16
Speaker
Wow. Okay. tell Tell me a little bit about the brands that that brand one represent. If you can, if we don't want to name names, that's okay also. But I am very curious. I mean, it seems like a really diverse portfolio. It is an incredibly diverse portfolio. um You know, we we are heavy in senior care. ah We just are getting ready to launch our fifth senior care brand. um and But they're all different. Like we don't want brands that that just do the same thing. So we wouldn't bring on a McDonald's and a Burger King as an example. They need to have nuances and differentiation between them. We don't want to have brands competing against each other within our portfolio. um You know, we've got Bright Brothers, which is a power washing and holiday lights business. We've got Scoop, which is a dog pooping business. We've got, um you know, we've got Canine, which is ah a dog grooming business or a hotel business for pets. We've got
00:09:06
Speaker
um, all different kinds of things. We've, we've done sky zone. Now we've, we've got men. She's so it's, it's mostly service related, but we do a lot of different things. We're bringing on, um, a brand. We just added two more today, which are in the, the, uh,
00:09:21
Speaker
the beauty side of the business, ah which I'm going to be running. And so the the guys were joking that they're going to change me to the chief beauty officer because I'm obviously, you know, the poster child for for beauty brands. But really excited about it. Missing a little something. Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of them is a hair extension. And I was actually laughing and they were saying, yeah, we actually have something for you if you're interested. and I'm like, no, I'm good. Yeah.
00:09:48
Speaker
You know, I'm curious. So it it makes two thoughts that kind of come of this. Number one, I'm actually, when you mentioned two of the dog franchise or, you know, pet-based franchises,
00:10:00
Speaker
It made me curious, do you often look for opportunities where there may be um complementary services, ah where you see, obviously, there are different brands, but being able to work within sort of a similar category where these products and services that um you know that the franchise you know is is is promoting happens to be complementary of of one another? Is that something that goes into how you choose to work with some things, or does that just happen to be pure happenstance? Yeah.
00:10:30
Speaker
No, I and think that's a bonus if that exists because we do silo these brands. They they operate on their own. But if there are synergies that again that can exist between them, that's even better as far as what we do. um We've got a couple of brands right now that we're just getting ready to launch that actually have very unique space requirements. They don't need a lot of space, but they need about 800 feet. well It's not always easy to find 800 of the right feet in the retail space and and they both need it. And so it's like, well, you guys are really complimentary brands. Maybe we can find some places where we've got 1600 feet or 2000 feet and we can put you both in. You can split the space. So those types of things we're always thinking about as as business people. But sometimes the brands just stand on their own.
00:11:18
Speaker
the um The other thing that it made me think of as you describe some, you know whether it's real estate, food service, senior care, ah you know in in some pet categories,
00:11:28
Speaker
um had a really great fireside chat with O'Brien McMahon who ah from Lockton who made the statement, ah every business is a people business, right? We're all in the people business.
00:11:44
Speaker
And as I think of some of these brands, as I think of franchising in general, right, there's so much, um it's it's made up so so heavily of frontline workers, right, that are having to interact with um people.
00:11:58
Speaker
right? Even though we might be promoting a product or service where we're ultimately, you know, either fixing something, serving something, whatever it happens, um, without that side of it, um, the business falls apart, right?
00:12:14
Speaker
Without the people, without the ability to connect with people. And I'm just kind of curious as you guys do the the vetting, as you make these decisions about the brands that you work with, um, Does this factor, is this a, is this a big, typically a big factor in, um, in that thought process or is it primarily, you know, just, um, you know, opportunity for growth and differentiation?
00:12:37
Speaker
No, it's it's a huge factor. um And it it starts with the founders of these brands and who's the leadership there. We have to know that we're going to be able to work with them and that they're going to provide the support to the people that we're putting in their businesses, right? So that it starts with them. um And that's it.
00:12:55
Speaker
you know You could have the greatest concept in the world, but if you're a real jerk to work with and you're going to treat your franchisees that way, that's not something that we're interested in doing. we We've got too many people that are great that want to work with us. that We don't have we don't have room for that. So that that is part of the vetting process.
00:13:11
Speaker
um And then the other part is is the franchisees that we're putting into their systems. Right. They have to make sure that they're going to be the kind of people that are helping to lift up that brand and to grow alongside that brand, especially in emerging brands.
00:13:27
Speaker
You know, if you're to get into a brand where there's already 800 franchisees. Like I built a brand called Budget Blinds, which has got you know well over a thousand franchisees and and probably 1600 franchise territories.
00:13:38
Speaker
You can be the 1,602 person in there and you don't really move the needle much one way or the other if you're not a good fit or along those lines. Obviously we wanna sure that doesn't happen. But if you're in building an emerging brand and you're franchisee number two, and all you're going to do is complain all day about, well, we don't have this and this isn't working and and everything else. That's just not a good fit. You might be a great franchisee number 202, but not number two. We need number two to be like, hey, this isn't working, but I'm all in to figure out how to make this work because we're in this together, almost like a partnership in in a lot of ways. And so it takes a different type of vetting process for those types of people. But it's all about people. if
00:14:22
Speaker
you know, these aren't just website businesses where because they don't need to franchise website businesses or things like that. They can just people get to do it themselves. The reason why people need to franchise businesses is because we need the people in the local markets that can deliver on that brand promise that you can't do from central headquarters. Right. So it's so it's so important.
00:14:42
Speaker
which um Which I think underscores right this this the the emphasis that franchising isn't isn't an industry, but more a distribution channel, um right just fundamentally speaking.
00:14:56
Speaker
um and um And it makes me curious, you know for these franchisors, how do they engage with
Franchising Readiness and Suitability
00:15:04
Speaker
you? like How do you begin to collaborate with the brands? How do you help them?
00:15:09
Speaker
You know, it really starts by understanding. We do a lot of listening, understanding what their why is, what their motivations are, um why they have a passion for whatever. Because usually it's it's a passion play for these people, right? they're They just love – hair extensions because it it changed their lives and and they see the smile on women's faces when they get them installed. And that's just the thing that they love to do. And what happens a lot of times, and you have to be careful of is that the thing that people love to do when it becomes a franchise,
00:15:42
Speaker
they're really good at hair extensions. For example, I'm just picking that out of the, but maybe they're not so good at all the things that you need to do to become a franchisor. um Because that can be, you can end up hating hair extensions if you, if it's, ah you're dealing with 30 franchisees that are yelling at you every day about them. And so a lot of it is education, listening to their why, understanding, understanding what their goals and objectives are so that we're not growing something faster than it should be, because that can happen. You know, you get somebody who's really excited about their concept and they say, i just can't wait for the whole world to hear about this. you know if you can put 100 people in this business in my first year, I'd be all for it. Well, the problem is they don't have the infrastructure and the capital and everything else to handle that. Right. And so it's really making sure that we're right sizing that growth model by by what they're capable of doing.
00:16:32
Speaker
And um and then just really preparing them for for what the future will lie and and what it looks like as a franchise or having never done that before. And we do we're working with like it's not just all on the front end. We're constantly working with our our partners, our brand partners to to work through challenges and and to make sure that we're we're getting the right people and getting them in the right way and and making adjustments as need be because it's very rare for a a new franchise brand to hit the market and not need some pretty substantial twists and turns in your in a month six and year one and and that sort of thing until it it's sort of establishes itself in the marketplace.
00:17:13
Speaker
you know yeah lot of good points about you know as you start to work with these these founders you know who are just ah who are emerging, And listening to hear their story in order to set the good expectations for them, right? And then, I guess, help manage them.
00:17:31
Speaker
um You also talked a little bit about, right, when some are looking to franchise, but frankly might not be a very good fit for it or or might not be ready for it.
00:17:43
Speaker
I'm kind of curious, like... how do you How do you know, what kind of advice do you give the businesses, you know, and and what brands or characteristics are the ones that make it a better fit for for franchising?
00:17:56
Speaker
Right. It's, it's a great question. And I'm thinking about an example. i won't name names, but it's something that recently happened. Hopefully they won't hear this. So they won't cause they'll know who they are, but you know, we, we had a brand that, that had an exciting concept and, and I think it's really going to work for franchising.
00:18:14
Speaker
um And we dug in and spent a lot of time, but the problem was they could never get on a conference call on time. They never had the reporting that they needed. Um, the, Their own business that they were running was consuming them so much that they didn't even have the time to commit to getting into franchising, even though they said they desperately wanted to.
00:18:35
Speaker
And part of our advice to them was we really like your concept. Like don't take this personally as your, your baby's not ugly, at least ah in our opinion. um But you're you like, if if you had five franchisees tomorrow and they were calling you and asking you for help and support and all these things, and you can't even get back to us, what's going to happen to them? Like you've got to hire people to take over your existing business. You're in the weeds there every day and you need to let that one go. You need to make it your corporate store. you're going to eat your own dog food there.
00:19:05
Speaker
um But then your focus needs to be 100% on franchising and working with franchisees coming in as opposed to worrying about your company's store. And if you're not ready to do that, that's fine. But that's what you have to do in order to be able to focus on where we need to be focused going forward. And so it's in a lot of these cases, it's they people think it's just an extension of their their existing business. It's really two completely different businesses.
00:19:30
Speaker
um And they need to look at it that way and be prepared to to dedicate the time and resources to the franchise model before we can start putting people in there. Sounds like, I mean, there's there's um a preparation for an operational load that you know that they certainly weren't ready to to to take on, you know,
00:19:54
Speaker
Many years ago, when I ah owned and scaled ah a small business, it was a consideration that we had. And as we went through some of the process to to start vetting the idea, there was a realization that you know it's not like it creates less work for you because you have other people running these businesses. You're just creating a ah voluminous amount of different work.
00:20:18
Speaker
Exactly. And so it's this um it's this idea of of being ready and being prepared for an operational load that currently doesn't exist. And right if they don't have the availability in their you know time or bandwidth or whatever it happens to be, um you know would fall apart before it actually everything even gets started. Yeah, it's absolutely right.
00:20:45
Speaker
Um, so i'm I'm curious about franchisees. You know, I know you have some people who are pretty close to you who are franchisees. Um, so how does somebody know if franchising is, is right for them and how do they pick one?
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. And yeah, you know as as you said at the beginning, my family has all, most of them have gotten into franchising as a result of of mine. And thank goodness it's worked out well for them. I still get to go home for the holidays and nobody throws dinner rolls at me or or anything like that.
00:21:17
Speaker
Although we do have to have an egg timer ah at the kitchen table because i mean we're only allowed to talk about business for so long because then the spouses just check out and they're like, yeah all why can't you guys talk about anything else? So We've learned that way. But, you know, it's a great question. How does someone know they're right they're right for franchising? and ah you know, we build really intentional processes to make sure that that people can understand what they're getting into, what the obligations are, what the results will be, and whether this is going to work for them. And and I tell people right up front, and listen, it's not for everybody. Like, don't feel so like you're just not worthy if if you're not offered a franchise here. it' some You know, if everyone was their own entrepreneur, no one would ever be around to work for anybody else, right? And sometimes that's the best role for people. Franchising is hard.
00:22:06
Speaker
And that's the thing that I think people get confused about sometimes. They think, oh, I bought a franchise. I'm just going to sit back and wait for the Brinks truck to roll up in the driveway. It's still a lot of hard work to build any kind of business, franchise or not. And this is no exception. The only difference is is that what you're paying for is basically a proven business.
00:22:25
Speaker
ah playbook, right? and And the support and coaching of others and and see that you're not on your own reinventing the wheel every day. um But it still takes a lot of work to do it. And people need to understand that. And and um it takes courage, you know, especially if you're if you're in an existing nine to five job and and your wife wants to know why you're willing to jump out of a perfectly good airplane that that keeps their lifestyle where it is to go do something on your own.
00:22:52
Speaker
You know, it takes courage because these things don't cash flow from day one. You've got to have the capital and the mental fortitude to ah to really do the hard things that are necessary, franchises or not a franchise.
00:23:05
Speaker
um And so we we we take people through these tests and they're not like school tests or anything like that, but just the whole process is built to see how they do working with us. Like if they can't follow a process working with us, what are the chances are that they're going to follow that same process when they become a franchisee? which is really the main, the number one thing people ask me all the time, like, what are what are the things that make franchisees great franchisees? And I will tell you, the number one thing in my mind is the willingness and ability to follow a proven system.
00:23:38
Speaker
And if they can do that with me, then there's a good chance that they'll probably do that when they become a franchisee. um You know, when I teach that class at San Diego, I talk to them about You know, franchising is not looking for entrepreneurs as a frenchch at the franchisee level.
00:23:55
Speaker
We're not. And people go, well what do you mean? Of course, everyone calls themselves an entrepreneur. And I say, yeah, that's fine. but But really what we're looking for is an entrepreneurial spirit. I think about entrepreneurs are people that are constantly trying to break things and and reinvent them. I think about, them you know, Elon Musk is an easy example, right? But he's constantly trying to break things and redo things. And that's not what a franchisee does.
00:24:18
Speaker
A franchisee needs to be willing to come in and say, yeah, i'm I may have some ideas in my own and I'll be willing to give them to the franchise or and maybe we can add some things to the system. But I need to be okay with You're handing me a checklist of A, B, C, and D, and I'm following that with vigor and professionalism and and everything else.
00:24:35
Speaker
But I'm not trying to always reinvent the franchise wheel. That's not what I bought into, and that's what not this is all about. So looking for people that can do that with an entrepreneurial spirit and the drive and professionalism, but not breaking the system at every so at every turn that they can, if that makes sense.
00:24:50
Speaker
No, it makes total sense. I mean, i often talk about, I think, the difference between being an entrepreneur and being entrepreneurial. And i think that you've, you know, articulated actually maybe even better than I could.
00:25:04
Speaker
um Because I do think that, you know, franchisees are entrepreneurial, um you know, in ah in a lot of ways. that i would yeah But I would agree with you, um you know, about what that you know really kind of means to be an entrepreneur. Yeah.
00:25:17
Speaker
And i think entrepreneurs in their DNA, ah like you said, I mean, they are looking to, um you know, solve new problems or or even old problems in new ways, you know, break things. You know, they're they're comfortable ah living in an environment of extreme uncertainty, right? Financial uncertainty, operational uncertainty, all of those different things. And a franchise shouldn't have that level of uncertainty. Right.
00:25:44
Speaker
Um, so very different, uh, very different people, um, similar word, I i guess. Yeah. Right. So, but, um, it, tell me some, just before we move on to another topic, some advice to help those new to franchising be
Starting and Sustaining a Franchise
00:26:00
Speaker
successful. You know, you, you mentioned that you're, you're teaching some classes. I'm curious, what are some of those things that you leave them with, right? For those that may see a future in franchising.
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's interesting. you're talking about on the franchisee level? Yeah. Well, i actually, I mean, maybe either way, you know folks who may even be small business owners who are looking to ah you know to franchise their business, but maybe you haven't even done it yet. Because I imagine you you talk with a lot of those folks too.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah. Well, on on that side, you know people that are looking to get into franchising, it's, it's again, it is hard. it it' It is not an easy road to go. And people who think,
00:26:39
Speaker
They hear the stories, right, about the the Dave's hot chicken that went from, you know, a cart and then two years later they're selling for a billion dollars. theyre like, oh i I've got a cart that makes chicken. I can do that too.
00:26:52
Speaker
Those are complete outliers. What they don't hear is is that it's years and years of super hard work and toil and frustration in some cases. um Working with franchisees that are super happy and at the same time you get franchisees that are disgruntled or not doing what you want them to do.
00:27:08
Speaker
um And you don't understand why they won't follow the plan that you've given them, but that's, those are just people problems, right? And so it's, you have to be prepared to go through a grind. And once you get to the other side of that though,
00:27:21
Speaker
it's so beautiful in terms of of how it works and, and the systems and, and the franchisees start policing themselves in a way to say, you know, a franchisee is complaining, but there's 10 others that say, well, that's a you problem, not an our problem.
00:27:34
Speaker
And so you need to get in this, the pro in with the program where you need to get out. Um, and so when you get to that level, it becomes really, really beautiful, but it's hard work at the beginning. And, yeah and again, your passion for what you're doing,
00:27:48
Speaker
um needs to stay strong but it may you may look at yourself in the mirror probably once a week and say what in the heck like i was just somewhere happi much happier when i was just making pies in my own bakery and now know i'm franchising and and and it's uh i hate pies because i it just reminds me of all the the franchisees that i'm dealing with right so um you know i think just just making sure that they're properly capitalized too it's it's expensive it's gotten more expensive than ever to get into franchising. um
00:28:19
Speaker
And I think a lot of that has to do with private equity and their huge role that's come into to franchising and the expectations that come along with that. um It used to be, you know, you had a good idea, you go out and you put an ad in the entrepreneur magazine and you wait for the little cards to come back that people ripped out and wrote their phone numbers on and see if you can get them on board and off you went. And and now it takes a lot of lot of capital, a lot more work to put yourself in the place where you can compete with people that do have all the infrastructure and that capitalization coming in. So i you know there's a lot to to learn about it.
00:28:54
Speaker
And I would say My advice, I guess, which is really what you asked me at the beginning, is there's a ton of resources out there for you um that you can lean into to understand whether you're ready and and make sure that you're using those resources and and talking to as many people as you can and getting on podcasts and and doing everything you can to to get the information that you need before you jump in to make sure that it's right for you from a timing standpoint and also and and from a financial and ah and a career bandwidth standpoint as well. yeah
00:29:27
Speaker
doing homework it's about doing i work it's so much easier today than it was when I started this yeah like we have the internet and yeah there's some content out there like if you're not you know listen if you're interested in getting into franchising and you're not listening to ten podcasts and and everything else and you're just you're you're missing out so yeah so much so much more available in terms of the information or just making that hill to climb so much steeper. You know what I mean?
00:29:54
Speaker
um You made an interesting comment about people problems. I kind of want to lean into for a second. you know um We're obviously a tech company. you know I'm curious about advice you'd have for folks, specifically when it comes to you know things like hiring and retaining their staff. right Among maybe the brand one brands or or even, i don't know, the business world at large. you, know what do you What are you seeing companies do to drive engagement, to retain their staff, to build the culture you know that's ah that's actually helping? um are Are there things that are hurting? you know You work with a lot of organizations to find the right franchisees.
00:30:37
Speaker
And these franchisees, have to grow their own businesses, right? That means they have to hire people. They have to find the right people. They have to build and maintain a culture at their units or their locations that is right representative of of the brand, right? Of of what that that franchisor, I think the vision that the franchisor ah has, right? So I'm kind of curious some trends that you've had your eye on or you seen with regard to that stuff.
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. Um, you know I've seen a few things. i think I'll talk about it first on the corporate level and then down to the franchisee level um as far as is engaging. and it's It's harder today than it ever was before, in my opinion. um you know i've I've hosted big teams um and everyone worked in the office and we were able to just do fun things and pull together and you could stop by someone and sit in their little chair by the side of their desk and just talk to them and see how the mood was going. right and Today,
00:31:38
Speaker
Everyone works all over the place. Our company, we don't have a headquarters. We have 23 people that all work remotely. um And you have to be intentional about reaching out to people without it necessarily just being for a business purpose. Like, I need an answer to this question. I'm going to get you on the phone. Because...
00:31:58
Speaker
Well, we all work from home, or a lot of us do, and and we don't get that that interpersonal connection. it can be pretty lonely. And you can feel sometimes that you're the only one going through something or that no one cares about you because they haven't heard. And so one thing that we try to do is be really, really intentional about connecting and and and making relationships And having conversations without necessarily an agenda, ah just to make sure that we're touching in on how everyone's feeling and and really listening.
00:32:25
Speaker
um Like Cubby says, you know, listening for the purpose of understanding and not just saying, oh, I checked the box on we we had a phone call this week, so we're good. um and And I think it's more important than ever because is is there's a lot of benefit in all the technology that connects all of us.
00:32:40
Speaker
it it can feel hollow if it doesn't come with some real personal feelings behind it in some cases. And so we try to do a lot of that thing. One thing that we're doing right now, which is kind of fun that I've been doing for years, is we have a question of the day that we we run through teams.
00:32:54
Speaker
And each person takes a ah week and they're responsible for all five of the questions that week. And it can be anything from you know, what's your favorite food to what's your favorite color and and everything else, because we're growing this team pretty rapidly and and we kind of grow in silos like there's half our team that's never met the other half of the team and may never, ever meet them, depending on which meetings they're at.
00:33:14
Speaker
And so learning about each other and yeah getting it to a personal level where we're we're caring about each other because now we know that Bob really likes Detroit baseball. and And every now and then, now that I know that when I see a Detroit game, that was awesome. I can send him a note and say, great game last night. I'm sure you're happy. And all of a sudden now we're that much more connected. Right. So yeah it's about peeling the layers back and really getting to know people on a personal level, the way we used to when we were maybe all in the office and and we don't so much anymore.
00:33:42
Speaker
I think on the franchisee level, one thing that I'm seeing right now that's that's really good is the use of technology to help rate your employees and in turn um be able to get them additional bonuses and compensation.
00:33:59
Speaker
So one brand that I work with, or I used to work with, I'm sorry, ah they performed a service for a homeowner. ah that was all done via an app. And at the end they'd pay for the app and then they'd have to rate that entire service. How did I feel about Susie that came today and did this for me?
00:34:15
Speaker
And if she got a great rating, she, her compensation would change um based on that rating and she would be getting bonuses. And so she was motivated to get the reviews, get the ratings. um And it was a real thing that we could use to not only make them happy by getting the more money, they're more motivated to say that, yeah, i work harder and it'll it'll, result for me, but also in some cases allow us to deal with, okay, how come we all got five out tens this week? what do we What do we need to do to to up our game and and make sure that we're also paying attention to some of the weak spots? And so I'm seeing some technology that's that's doing that, that's giving us
00:34:54
Speaker
what I'll call a heat meter in terms of how people are feeling.
Technology's Role in Franchising
00:34:57
Speaker
um You know, in a perfect world, I wish I could just log in every day and there'd be an emoji that would literally change next to every person on my team as corresponding with how they're feeling at that moment. You know, sad, happy, angry. It'd be so much easier to to manage people if that was the case, but it doesn't happen that way. And so we have to try to use ah what technology we can to to understand how people are really feeling.
00:35:22
Speaker
um i want to I want to drive the conversation towards some of this technology stuff. um you You made a couple of comments that I kind of want to go back to and and hopefully we'll have even enough time to sort of flesh it all out.
00:35:34
Speaker
um Curiously, you know, I want to talk about, you know, there's there's legislation at the floor of the federal government, right, for the the Franchise Act, you know.
00:35:46
Speaker
about a month ago, um talking about a lot of the joint employer, you know adding some some some clarity and some definition around around joint employer. The do's, the don'ts, what you can, what you can't. I think there happens to be a more latitude than I think some actually realize, but it's also a third rail, right? I think ah most franchisors are are terrified of crossing that that line.
00:36:09
Speaker
And yet there's no real tools, I think, to help them promote the kinds of of culture within the organization, even some of the things that you're talking about, right, um you know, within their network.
00:36:27
Speaker
And so I'm just kind of curious, you know, in your mind, There's tons of you know ah HR tech solutions, platforms for recruiting, hiring, onboarding, scheduling, you know all of these things, many of them that sort of touch that line, maybe don't cross over it entirely.
00:36:44
Speaker
What do you see brands typically using? How far do they go? you know What kind of things are available to them that keeps them in the safe zone?
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's ah it's a really great question. and you know I'm not on the HR side of most of these things, but i i you know i used to work closely with our in-house counsel. and and When you say he's scared to death to touch that third rail, like that's an understatement, which I don't know if you can be how you can understate it. but you know, if someone would just ask for some simple help, that just seemed like second nature to say, yes, I can help you with that employee or this solution or whatever it might be.
00:37:24
Speaker
and then you run it by the attorney who was a great attorney who always is trying to think about business first. But that was just kind of a no, can't do it. And we can't even get near it. Don't it's just not worth the risk.
00:37:36
Speaker
And it's a shame because it as franchise awards, you know, we have all this base knowledge and we and we we have all this experience that we should be able to share and want to share to help our franchisees. Like that should be what we do.
00:37:50
Speaker
And having this, I'm going to call it silly litigation or silly rules that that are government focused in place that don't support that essential need is really a shame. And, and I'm hoping that we can continue to find ways to, to push it out and get around it.
00:38:11
Speaker
um Because I can't tell you how many times I, you know, someone will come up with an idea like that's a great idea. And then of course you run it by the council and they say, no, we, you know, that's too close to the, to the line in terms of what we're able to do. And so,
00:38:25
Speaker
I think people are always looking for solutions. um I think using advisory councils sometimes can be very helpful um so that maybe you can suggest something to an advisory council member that then in turn can take it back to the franchisee system, which kind of blurs the the lines of of where something is coming from. um yeah those Those can be options, but it's a challenge and it still remains a challenge, even though I think people are understanding that it's it's being loosened up a little bit.
00:38:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the biggest, you know frustrating things, at least, you know, I'm on the outside looking in and, and I see the fact that, you know, i think that there's a lot of truth to the fact that, you know, every business is a people business. And yet, you know, as, as thorough as these, um,
00:39:14
Speaker
playbooks are, as thorough as these you know franchise playbooks are to help you go and run your business, it's really the one thing that they want to stay away from is providing that guidance and support when it comes to people.
00:39:28
Speaker
you you know One of the last brands I was on, you know we would actually offer to do the final interview for their hirees, not to say yes or no, but to give them a rating on a scale of one to 10 as to whether or not we think they would be a good fit.
00:39:44
Speaker
And I love that. And the franchisees love that. i i think a lot of people are really adverse and feel like that's a little too risky, even though you're not saying yes or no, you're just giving them advice. But, you know, things like that, that we can do that that will help the franchisees avoid these red flag candidates and things along those lines. It's just common sense. But you have to just take your own risk level and go from there.
00:40:10
Speaker
So speaking of some of this tech, you know, and it's i'm obviously changing and incredibly rapidly. I'm sure you see it. I'm sure you use AI, right? Or or at least a bunch of your team probably does. im Curious if you see, you know, how it's evolving,
00:40:25
Speaker
play a role in your own work changing right what what brands or will brands i guess need something different will the workforce need something different any trends any predictions there when it comes to that tech side yeah that's a great question and you know i'm the guy that needs help turning my computer on and off i'm the best one to speak to that but i will tell you i sat through um I was at Springboard, which is ah an annual meeting of of people like myself, franchisors, franchisees, everything else. and And that's always one of my favorite meetings of the year. and Dan Monahan spent an hour talking to us about AI and and where it is and where it's going in the franchise space. And and I tell you, my my jaw kind of hit the floor.
00:41:11
Speaker
And I walked out of there saying, we're already so far behind. And if we don't hustle, it's just going to overtake us. And in so kudos to him because he's just a genius when it comes to that stuff. But I think it's going to have a huge impact in all levels of our business. i I was working with somebody the other day on their disclosure document.
00:41:32
Speaker
And they have this big call center, you know, charge and everything else that they're doing. And I asked them, I said, don't you think AI is just gonna eliminate this whole thing like pretty shortly? And they said, well, I hadn't even thought about that. And I said, I think call centers are gonna go the way of you know, the dinosaurs before too long. And so thinking about the cost associated with that, can we put that money somewhere else? Can we take that money out of the FDD that the franchisee has to pay? i think there's just a ah myriad of examples of things that we're so used to doing the old way that now we are going to change with with AI. and And again, I think it's really important for us to to help the young people to to get into these businesses and learn the skills that they need to to be
00:42:19
Speaker
um to get entry level into franchising because I think AI, what I'm seeing from my my kids are both in college and all their friends are graduating and no one has jobs because a lot of these entry level jobs that we used to get in and do where you're running reports and just, you know, doing all this menial labor, that's all going away with technology, especially with AI. And so we've got to give them a basis to be able to get into something that, that from a skillset standpoint where they can get out of school and and jump right in and learn things. So again, sort of going back to that, but I think, yeah, it's going to change a lot. I'm not an expert on it by any shape, but I think it's, there's a lot coming.
00:42:58
Speaker
The, um the talent pipeline is definitely, you know, it's, it's, it's not that it's drying up because it's not like there's fewer people in the world, but there's a chasm I think that's getting created. Right. So, you know, as we have, you know, younger people coming up,
00:43:15
Speaker
And if we're using AI to take all those entry-level jobs, right there's this chasm between those folks who don't necessarily have the skills or experience right to jump to that mid-level.
00:43:27
Speaker
And so it becomes incredibly problematic when we need to fill those those mid-level roles with folks who simply don't have the experience or didn't have an opportunity to gain it somehow.
00:43:37
Speaker
i love kind of what you were yeah I love what you were talking about in terms of these skills that they're going to have to develop. And I guess I would question, what are those things? you know Do you see, um you know are there people-centric skills that have to be developed? are there What are the competencies that tomorrow's leaders are going to have to develop in order to thrive? And and maybe there's more than one, but what would you say?
00:44:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's two things that they come to mind. And I think you need to become these kids. know Not everyone wants to be a techie, but if you don't understand how AI can be used and how it can be used to create efficiencies and everything else. And if you're not somewhat adaptive in that skill set, you're going to struggle if you're a young kid coming out these days because it is where everything is going to go. You know, my son is not a techie um and he's in college. And I go, dude, you got to go take a class on this because you're going to be left completely behind if you're not. When you come out and everyone goes, what are your, you know, what are your AI skills? And and it's going to be like typing for, you know, back in the 70s. What can you do with AI now? Right.
00:44:46
Speaker
um But the part that. you know again going back to dan's conversation that he had about ai at that meeting it's it's mostly i don't want to quote him because i can't but summarize it as like ai is going to do a lot of things for us but it can't replace us in in the personal skills it can't feel for us right it can't it can't recognize and have empathy um it can't have compassion um and that's the thing that that You know, in our organization, for example, from a sales standpoint, that's the thing that we, that we need to focus on. And so these younger kids coming in, ah you know, not ah the generation is, is what it is, but they're, they're used to doing so much technology and everything is a, is a text or ah a WhatsApp or who knows what.
00:45:35
Speaker
And they don't actually ever talk to anybody. yeah um And when they come in and talk to me and I try to have an interview with one of them or, or, a conversation, it's clear to me that that is the one skill set that's becoming a lost art.
00:45:50
Speaker
It's the human ability to look someone in the eye and have a a competent conversation with them about, you know, and to and to listen and as opposed to, you know, just saying what you want to say and moving on. So I think you're going to have to be adaptive in in AI and you're going to have to know something about it you're going to be lost. But I think the real people that are going to succeed are the ones that really focus on getting back to having actual people skills, yeah which is going to be key.
00:46:21
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree 100%. um Last question. I always like to kind of wrap up with this. you know If an entrepreneur, if a franchisee or Zor comes to you for your let's say single most important piece of advice about what they can do better as a leader when it comes to their people, people they work with.
00:46:40
Speaker
um And you only had a minute before maybe you're on an elevator and it gets to the top floor and they walk right out the door. What's that one thing that you tell them?
Leadership and Listening in Franchising
00:46:49
Speaker
I've touched on it a couple of times already, but it's listening is ah is a skill.
00:46:55
Speaker
It's an amazing skill, in my opinion. And so many problems that, as an example, a franchisor has with a franchisee or vice versa, or whatever it might be, can be solved by listening. and And being intentional about listening to understand them as opposed to listening so that you're just hearing them out or listening to reply, right? Like Covey used to say.
00:47:18
Speaker
And I think that's ah that's a thing that, you know, I try to put myself in that position as a leader. And and I've had people tell me over the years, I've had a lot of people that have just stuck with me over and over or they leave when I leave and they come with me where I go, which I find is is an amazing compliment. And I don't always understand why. But one thing that they will tell me is you're always listening to me and you always have my back.
00:47:42
Speaker
And whether I'm right or wrong, you'll at least listen in and try to help me understand the situation. And I always feel like when I hang up the phone with you or we get off the Zoom that i'm in a that I was heard, i was understood.
00:47:57
Speaker
And that i was important. And I think as leaders, as you were in business, as franchisees or franchisors or wherever we are, that's that's the one thing that I think is is most important that I would tell people is really focus in and be intentional about your listening. And and the rest gets a lot easier when you can do that.
00:48:17
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. I really, really do. um Definitely take that to heart. That was great, JT. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really, really appreciate it. That was fun. had a great time. Appreciate it.
00:48:30
Speaker
Also, big thanks to all of you for tuning into Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Please like and share this episode. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next installment. Also visit mustardhub.com to learn how we help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge. While you're there, you can sign up to get started with Mustard Hub for free. Thanks for joining me. Until next time.