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Marc Villella on Building a Compliance Company by Solving Real Problems
7 Plays14 days ago
Some of the best companies aren’t planned — they’re built out of necessity.
In this episode of Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes talks with Marc Villella, founder and CTO of GryphonHR, about how a career in technology unexpectedly led him into the world of compliance and entrepreneurship.
Marc shares how an early passion for engineering evolved into consulting, leadership, and eventually founding a work eligibility and compliance platform focused on Form I-9 and E-Verify. What started as solving real problems for real employers became a scalable SaaS business serving organizations that couldn’t afford to get compliance wrong.
The conversation explores entrepreneurship after acquisition, the realities of timing, and why compliance is often underestimated until it becomes urgent. Marc also discusses balancing hands-on technical work with leadership and growth.
This episode is ideal for anyone who believes the best products start with practical pain points.
About Marc:
Marc boasts over two decades of expertise in business and IT. His extensive background spans Form I-9 and E-Verify compliance, business management, software product development, project management, security, risk and compliance management, and continuous process improvement. Notable accomplishments include creating multimillion-dollar SaaS platforms, guiding future CEOs, and offering valuable insights into Form I-9 and E-Verify.
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Transcript
Introduction & Guest Background
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello again, everyone. Welcome to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these fireside chats, I sit down with the people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes. My guest today is Mark Valola.
00:00:21
Speaker
Mark boasts over two decades of experience in business and IT, t His extensive background spends Form I-9 and E-Verify compliance, business management, software product development, project management, security, risk and compliance management, and continuous process improvement.
00:00:41
Speaker
Notable accomplishments include creating multi-million dollar SaaS platforms, guiding future CEOs, and offering valuable insights into Form I-9 and E-Verify.
00:00:53
Speaker
Thank you for joining me on Behind the Build, Mark. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Curtis. It's a pleasure to be here. yourre um Your background is incredibly impressive, and it doesn't even speak to the hockey, the volleyball, the video games, and last but not least, the expert cornhole player. um So pretty well-rounded individual I have today.
00:01:21
Speaker
Well, thank you. youey You know, we talk about hobbies and you got to find something to kind of break up the ah the business yeah the business hours in the day. And so those are some of those things I certainly enjoy doing.
Mark's Journey into Tech & Consulting
00:01:33
Speaker
I was eyeing up your your LinkedIn profile while preparing for our conversation. And like I said, yeah you have quite an impressive career in tech and you went to school for computer science. So what attracted you to the technology world in the first place and what like and and what's kept you there?
00:01:53
Speaker
yeah That's a great story. you know um My dad was a pretty good forward forward thinker and when Apple first released its Apple two back in the day, I think in 76 or um he thought that would be a great thing to get for the household.
00:02:12
Speaker
And when we got that in the house, I really, really took a liking to it, enjoyed it, and very quickly kind of sought that out as a passion of something I wanted that to learn more about. And um and ah it never that passion never really went away.
00:02:29
Speaker
So it led me to go to school for computer engineering, actually, ah in Ann Arbor. And then as I finished that up, what I realized a little different about myself maybe than some other computer engineers ah was that I tended to be a little more socially interactive instead of socially inverted, so to speak, introverted, excuse me.
00:02:55
Speaker
um And so I got into consulting. Anderson Consulting or Accenture nowadays was big into that space. And it led me kind of obviously down the tech path that I've moved around a bit over the course of my career, as you said, but still always, always enjoyed tech and always enjoyed tech more than ah tech management. Even though you got to do one as you kind of move on, but still like getting in the weeds and doing the day-to-day stuff and solving problems is, it still, you know, keeps me entertained and engaged today.
Entrepreneurship Path & Challenges
00:03:28
Speaker
So you're, you're the president and CTO at Griffin HR. um Did you, are you the founder of this guy? Is this your company? I am. Yep. I am. I founded it about six years ago.
00:03:40
Speaker
Love that. So, I mean, what drove you to entrepreneurship in general or at the very beginning? I'd love to hear kind of the story. um Well, you know it it's it it's ah it's an evolving story in that regard. you know As you kind of go out throughout your career, um you know people are telling you what to do. you get stuck in the tech world of having to do support at some level and responding to emergencies and things like that.
00:04:06
Speaker
Whereas you see the upper levels necessarily not always being in the weeds and handling that stuff, but At the end of the day, I was involved in you know two or three companies that sold and got acquired and um you know saw that, quite frankly, they they made a lot of money doing it, but also they got to they got to yeah decide the rules. And so for me, after being in tech for so long and kind of working through some of those challenges, I kind of worked toward being able to feel comfortable in
00:04:39
Speaker
and you know, starting up and doing my own business. And as as life happens and different personal things come along, the opportunities and the right timing you know didn't always didn't always come together until about six years ago when we sold the previous company I was working at. and um decided I was in good enough shape with that sale that I could give it a shot. So, so that's what I did, but it was always something i kind of wanted to do as we evolved or excuse me, as my career evolved.
00:05:09
Speaker
And, um, it's, uh, you know, when you see there or you talk to people like, oh you know, the owner gets this or the owner does that, or why do they get to do all these things? And it's true. You know, it seems like they do, but, uh,
00:05:21
Speaker
it's been It's been enlightening to really understand all of the challenges you face kind of tackling entrepreneurship and really being your own boss. and How hard is it really to get started you know versus potentially buying an existing company you know and taking it over?
00:05:40
Speaker
yeah Yeah. there i mean Those challenges are pretty well documented.
00:05:47
Speaker
Either direction that you go in, right, is ah a little bit of a different sort of set of challenges, but I can certainly appreciate that on just about every level.
Griffin HR's Services & Clientele
00:05:55
Speaker
um Tell us a little bit about Griffin HR. What does it do?
00:06:02
Speaker
Yeah, so Griffin h jar is ah is a work eligibility compliance company in particular that specializes today in Form I9 and E-Verify. And so what are they?
00:06:14
Speaker
Form I-9, for those folks that may not be as familiar with it, is the form that you fill out when you start a job that says you're authorized to work in this country. So you usually have to present a passport or a driver's license social card.
00:06:27
Speaker
Somebody notates it down on a piece of paper. And assuming you're all good, then you're authorized to work in in the United States and you move on to whatever other onboarding paperwork you might have to fill out.
00:06:39
Speaker
um E-Verify is a government technology system. that employers can register with, it's free to register with, that essentially allows you to take information from that i nine enter it into their system, and they'll actually confirm whether or not you're authorized to work.
00:06:58
Speaker
So it's essentially doing it a cross-reference check against the government's Department of Homeland Security system and the Social Security Administration systems. So that's the nature of those two things. And um I got into this space somewhat accidentally about 12 years ago when i was changing jobs and a friend of a friend asked me to come on board and take over their technology group.
00:07:21
Speaker
and um successfully helped grow that that company to an exit in 2018. And then about a year later, left that ah company and um had a number of clients and and partners reaching back out to see if I was interested in building a new platform to ah you know to offer the same kind of service. So that's essentially what Griffin HR is. It's It's an I-90 Verify company that we designed to go bigger than that, hopefully, as we continue to grow.
00:07:52
Speaker
But it's a software it as a service that we offer to employers. Love that. It sounds like it was kind of serendipitous, right? You left one, you had some clients, they really needed a service, and you were the guy who could provide that to them. So tell me about the kinds of customers, I mean, we don't have to name any names here, but tell me about the kinds of customers that turned to Griffin. Sure.
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, really, again, the you know the service that we're doing when we talk about I-I-I-Verify, like every employer in the United States has to fill out these forms. Now, doesn't mean every employer is going to sign up with us because, quite frankly, if you're hiring a few people once in a while, may not make a lot of sense.
00:08:29
Speaker
but But if you are in a business that has a fairly high turnover um and you have to fill these things out all all the time, or if you're in a business that tends to hire um we'll say foreign nationals, people outside of the US, it gets really complicated in terms of both filling out the form correctly and then also making sure that you maintain that work eligibility over time.
00:08:54
Speaker
So companies like staffing companies, retail companies, restaurants, some healthcare care providers, those are all good direct, I call them direct clients because we also at Griffin HR resell our service or let come other companies white label it as their own.
00:09:11
Speaker
So we have several large background screening companies in this country actually sell I-90 verified service, um as their own, but they're actually leveraging our platform to do that. And it's a great partnership model that we have with them because along with a background check, when you're doing the other types of things you do to verify someone's background, an I-9 eVerify sometimes kind of looked at as a background check when you talk about processing the information through eVerify, but it it can't really be used like that, but it' still kind of thought that way as the industry evolves. So
00:09:46
Speaker
A lot of times after the background checks done and somebody decides to hire somebody, they'll go ahead and add on this check, so to speak, as a post hire check and get it done. And it just is a lot simpler for these companies that are already signed up with background screening companies to just add this check as an add on than it is to go find another provider to do the service. It seems like a natural, like yeah step natural fit, an obvious, that obvious add on. So.
00:10:14
Speaker
I'm curious about the name. I probably should have asked you this first. How did, how did, how did we come up with Griffin? The HR part, I think I understand pretty well. Yeah. So, ah so my colleague and partner, Debbie Stacy, who I worked with before at our last company also. So she came over relatively early and we were trying to come up with names that, that, you know,
00:10:40
Speaker
We liked, we thought had some level of meaning and had open domains for, of course. always the That's always the trick. It is. It is a trick because you never know if you can get it from someone else. um So any rate, as we were kind of ah looking that up, we came across a griffin, which is a combination of an eagle and a lion.
00:11:00
Speaker
And we just felt that that kind of power type presence that that represents and security were what we wanted to represent. um And then, of course, from her perspective, she she came up with it partly from her harry love of Harry Potter, of course.
00:11:18
Speaker
um So that did factor into kind of how we got to Griffin in that sense. HR was obviously because of the space we were in. And then the spelling's a little bit different. Mostly, again, going back to that domain problem, there was you know the Griffin spelling, as it is in Harry Potter, was already taken in some way, shape, or form. So we opted for this phonetically similar spelling for the name. but I like it. Yeah, that's kind of how the story came about. Yeah.
00:11:46
Speaker
It's great. I love it. we've we've We've had a lot of compliments on the name and, you know, it gives you a nice symbol too that we can kind of use for a logo that was kind of neat. so Yeah. Well, back on
I-9 Compliance Importance & Education
00:11:59
Speaker
track here. um You know, i I know that even from my own experience, I mean, I-9 compliance is is crucial for organizations, right?
00:12:10
Speaker
Ensuring that the employment is legal, that it's authorized, What are the consequences for employers that are not compliant?
00:12:22
Speaker
Well, that's that's a great question, Curtis. um You know, the biggest things are, you know, fines. it's it's a It's a very um penalized type compliance standard in the market where if you are not compliant, whether intentionally or accidentally, I say, fines can range anywhere from like $300 to $2,800 per form.
00:12:49
Speaker
If you fill it out incorrectly or not at all, or something about it is is off. um if you're If you're discriminating through the use of that form, and i'll I'll mention that again, you can get fines in the thousands of dollars.
00:13:05
Speaker
So it is extremely important. It's one of the reasons why I've kind of stayed in this space is because there is a penalty to not being compliant. Basically my career, I did a little bit of work with HIPAA,
00:13:18
Speaker
early on when I was with an information security consulting firm. and And they talk about some of these other standards that are in the market to you know measure yourself from a security perspective. But if you didn't meet those standards, there wasn't any real penalty or anything for not doing it. You could just say I'm compliant or not compliant with the standards. So in those instances, people don't really care because there's no real penalty necessarily by not. So with the I-9, There certainly is penalties and severe. The other potential one is is you could have people deported and no longer working for you. And obviously in some organizations, ah that's critical. um Recently in the news, there was a superintendent of Iowa public schools that has been working for a number of years, never got run through. He verified. Turns out he was not authorized to work and they were, you know, he had to be,
00:14:14
Speaker
removed or or I'm not sure if he even got deported. I'm 100% sure of that. But the point was, is they had to take him out of the role and start looking for someone else. And that was a big deal and generated a lot of negative press and you know problems. so So it is important, obviously, both for penalty reasons, just ensuring that you've got eligible people here working and want to make sure you continue to run your business without any the adverse impacts.
00:14:39
Speaker
Yeah, that was scandalous. I definitely remember reading that. And and pretty remarkable that even at such a high high level, those things still get missed, right? Where you think everybody's going to be you know crossing their T's and dotting their I's. It doesn't always happen. So do you do you ever get organizations who show up on your doorstep because they've been non-compliant and gotten caught?
00:15:03
Speaker
um We've had people, yes, that have had some kind of challenges. They might have gotten audited by the Immigration Customs in Fort Bend or ICE.
00:15:14
Speaker
um And they're not necessarily always severe, but they had some level of noncompliance. It could have been as simple as just forgetting to do I-9s for some people for whatever reasons.
00:15:26
Speaker
um And they got penalized for it. Now, that's a rare thing. Usually there's some leniency or some negotiation, you know, if you are working with the government on some of those things. But yeah, we we have had that. And it's usually just you know lack of education. I mean, it's it's simple to say you got to do the I-9, but again, are you doing it correctly? Are you following up on those individuals where on again, those individuals that are non-citizens. And now you got to make sure that their work authorization timeframe only lasts so long. If you're a U.S., it's kind of indefinite once you fill it out.
00:16:05
Speaker
But as a foreign national and you're coming around, then you've got to renew that every so however long it is, every year, a couple of years, whatever the dates are in the documentation. And so that's where another kind of source of um penalty or or just non-compliance can come up because it's kind of do it once and forget, right? And you're not paying attention to those other items that that you do have to manage. and And then in the event of an audit, they'll they'll catch you for it and kind of make sure. so Do you ever have you ever assist those organizations who have been audited or is it strictly on the technology like verify and and and compliance side and not necessarily any sort of consult consultative measures after that?
00:16:47
Speaker
In other words, somebody... Well, part of what we're trying to do... yeah Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to say, part of what we try to do is educate them along the way, right? And they're usually coming to us. Now, there's there's a few different services that we can help with also. For example, we can help take paper I-9s and get them into our system through technology scanning and and kind of automation to at least get them in there. And then in the...
00:17:12
Speaker
we can work with other partners that can even help audit those forms for them and help them correct it. One of the one of the things people often miss is is is if you do have a problem with your I-9s, it is okay to make an attempt to correct them and then audit or or notate what those corrections are and why you believe they were incorrect the first time. The government looks at that as an attempt in good faith to kind of make them correct.
00:17:39
Speaker
And in doing that, they're usually more lenient about what kind of penalties they're gonna enforce if they've seen that you've done this internal audit and made some attempts to get them in order. And now you're using, you know whether it's a new platform like ours or you just kind of formalized more of your process and ensured that you're you're doing it all correctly. um you know They have less issue with that, we'll say. You still may get fined, but it's usually lesser and they see that you're going down the right way so the penalties are minimized.
00:18:08
Speaker
what what What percentage of folks, you know, organizations are doing it right, you feel like, when it comes to their I-9 compliance, I mean, in your opinion? are are Are employers generally doing it right, or do you see that this is still a major, major problem where a lot of education needs to happen?
00:18:27
Speaker
Well, it certainly is better than when I started like 12 years ago. I will tell you that ah I was working at the last place I was at and and they actually did, you know, back back back then, 12 years ago, you know, almost everybody was still doing it on paper um or there was a lot more. i still run into clients today doing it and on paper that are large volumes that I'm still kind of amazed at. But back then we actually had,
00:18:53
Speaker
built, that company had built a um a process for correcting them. And so when we would scan paper, we had a bunch of different error checks that we did. And what was coming out of kind of the results of that was about an 80 to 85% error rate, which was amazing, some kind of error.
00:19:13
Speaker
um And so so in that case, to answer your question, you know that's a pretty high rate where people aren't doing them right. Now, now again, you know I go back to if you're hiring a couple people a year and they're U.S. citizens, i mean, you still might have a problem, but it's not as complex.
00:19:30
Speaker
The biggest thing is people don't take didn't take it seriously for a long time. So they would like put their name on it. They wouldn't fill in maybe their address or they wouldn't fill in. you know, their birth date or something, they'd fill in a couple lines that said, hey, they presented a driver's license to the social card and sign it off and call it good like they did it.
00:19:48
Speaker
When in fact, you have to document everything on that form and make sure it's done correctly or they can find you. So i think the um I think the rates higher. It's hard to say how much, honestly. um I would say i just look at it. People that are hiring, as I mentioned, some of those things, metrics, you know, if you're hiring foreign nationals regularly, my gut still says that if you're not using compliance tool to do it, yeah but truly I nine compliance tool, because there's other i nine components of large HRIS systems that, um,
00:20:23
Speaker
that aren't as robust as a true I-9 compliance tool. they They present the form, but they don't help you they they don't help you fill it out. They don't try to fully make sure that you're doing it right. And I've still seen a lot of errors on those forms coming back. so You know, it's hard to give you an exact percentage, but I know it's way better than it was 10 years ago, but there's still a lot of opportunities for improvements, especially now with more people remotely. um There's just varying workflows. And if you can believe this, there's at least...
00:20:55
Speaker
like 50 different versions of this form that have come out since 1986 when it was first introduced. It's crazy. it's It's like Trump changed it this year, just minor changes, whether it's what documents you can present, language on the form, all of these things. And one of the things they may audit for is, is, Hey, when were you hired?
00:21:16
Speaker
And were you using the correct version of the form when you, when that person was hired? Cause that's another thing that can flag you for, for noncompliance. So it is, ah it is amazing. Would you say, or, or,
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah, but just put it this way. Are there any common missteps when it comes to I-9 compliance? Like where do you see employers regularly getting hung up or that 85% who are doing it wrong? Is it generally concentrated in one area? um you know It's generally concentrated, I think.
00:21:50
Speaker
In two areas. okay One is just not filling out the form entirely. Again, really it's on paper and you're not enforcing it. Yeah. They just skip over little fields for whatever reasons and don't fill it out. And, you know, the employee does the first part and the employer does the second part. So the employee does their part and on paper, nothing's validating it other than if the employer looks at it and then are they, you know, attesting to it. Um,
00:22:15
Speaker
And in the employer section, it's some level of detail of filling out where you're notating what documents they presented and you notate it wrong. You know, which sounds kind of silly, but they do find you like you'll put there's a or B and C documents is kind of how they put it together. And you might write passport in the list C document category. Well, that's not where it's supposed to go. Got it. Stay section. Okay. Just as an example. So they just.
00:22:39
Speaker
They just fill it out wrong a lot of times. Yeah. um And in the electronic world now and these simple ones, yeah, same kind of thing. They still may fill it out wrong. if they're not enforcing some of these things correctly. Or, you know, if you present a birth certificate, for example, you don't need an expiration date, but then most other documents do need an expiration date. So are you filling that or are you just skipping over the expiration date and not filling it in at all?
00:23:05
Speaker
You know and there's options to kind of skip it because it's possible scenarios where you don't need it. So it's just things like that. Those are the two big things.
HR Tech Evolution & Leadership
00:23:13
Speaker
Just employees don't fill out section one entirely for whatever reasons.
00:23:17
Speaker
And then employers just fill out the documentation part incorrectly. And then there's still the thing, you know, honestly, in the third one, I don't know I mention it just because you asked, but like people don't put the hire date, like you're supposed to put the date of hire. And on some of the forms, it's it's it's very kind of built into like a paragraph.
00:23:36
Speaker
And so if you don't see it, you you forget to fill it out. um And so, again, it's one of those things where we saw so many people where you're not putting in the right date, which the timeline for when you have to do it is based on that date. So without the date, you can't tell if it was done on time or late.
00:23:53
Speaker
So anyway, yeah, there's a lot. um That's really interesting. and And they seem like such unforced errors, right? um Yeah. But i think i like ah I think a lot of those things really can stem from the fact that that some businesses or business owners, I should say, struggle with a lot of technology. You know, I mean, it's good that that there's platforms like Griffin, you know, to help employers get their act together when it comes to, you know, I-9 compliance.
00:24:20
Speaker
And there's a lot of tools that can really be benefit, I think, HR professionals in general. Do you feel like most HR teams are are pretty tech ready? Would you say that? um I think there is a lot of room for education still. Again, you know, this next generation kind of comes in. They're certainly more tech ready, I'll say, than the last generation was at the start. and And they've evolved, obviously, to be tech ready. but um But I think where organizations, certainly smaller ones that don't have the same kind of HR resources can benefit, is really leveraging providers, not even strictly Griffin, but
00:25:02
Speaker
organizations like PEOs, professional employment organizations, or services that have like hr you can sign up as like an ask HR type of service, you pay a monthly fee and now you can run any kind of question by these ah HR folks to kind of help and they they emphasize ensuring you are compliant, right? Are you doing the things, not not that they're auditing and doing that, but they're saying, hey, are you doing this? And are you doing this? and And they oftentimes have solutions or technologies that they recommend to kind of help address those things. I think that's really where the gap is for certainly smaller organizations, but even larger ones. There's a lot
00:25:43
Speaker
of compliance and regulatory requirements that you do have to meet, not just tax related, but just yeah compliant related and obviously dependent on the business that you're in. And it is very challenging to kind of focus on your business and still have all these other things you got to be make sure you're doing. And so that's where I think some of these services that have come up um that are just like managed subscriptions, like software almost ah are great, are great resources for for organizations to take advantage of.
00:26:14
Speaker
I think that they help um begin to change sort of this culture for HR teams when it comes to technology, technology adoption.
00:26:24
Speaker
It's moving so quickly in this space, but really going from this like archaic state, right? So you talk about, I mean, it wasn't that long ago where everybody was just filling everything out on paper.
00:26:35
Speaker
yeah Yeah, exactly. You know, and and I think it's hard for a lot of employers especially some older employers who might not be so comfortable with the advances in technology that allow you to do well more things on your computer, um you know, begin making that, to making that shift. Um,
00:26:58
Speaker
sometimes it's a lack of leadership support, right? Sometimes folks just don't know what you you talked about having the resources, right? I mean, without leadership to support, this kind of change is, is unlikely to occur, at least not in a sustainable and consistent way. um Any thoughts on, on how to get,
00:27:15
Speaker
current leadership on board to to train them ah in this you know new world of of what's available, just to become more comfortable and adept at using technology to solve some of these people problems?
00:27:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think i think the the challenge is, and and you know if if if as HR leaders, you' you're trying to get, or HR folks, maybe daily operational folks, trying to get leadership to buy in,
00:27:43
Speaker
I think a lot of these providers can provide good you know case study, ah ROI type information where you're you're solving multiple problems at once, right? I think the biggest thing is to prove some ah ROI and the investment obviously, and things like conversational AI to automate onboarding and some of these other interactions is a incredibly, know,
00:28:11
Speaker
incredibly advanced. I've seen a few demos even in the last couple of weeks that I was just like, wow, um both in allowing you to get things done quickly to reduce some of the churn back and forth of following up and activities. Right. And I think if you can show ah show that ah ROI ah use case to those leaders, then it becomes, yeah, you're actually going to be saving money here.
00:28:35
Speaker
but also and where these tools are combined or partner with somebody else. And you can bring in some of these regulatory compliance related, ah concerns to address as well, now you're solving multiple problems with that technology or or or subset of technologies that really will make leaders perk up, right?
00:28:58
Speaker
I'm saving money, but I'm also reducing my risk. Those are the two big things. Saving money is bigger than reducing risk. Oftentimes, when you're looking at dollars and cents, but it still is important. and um And if you can do both, and I think yours moves up to the top in terms of priority, then just doing one or the other.
00:29:16
Speaker
I mean, people tinor generally tend to be you know the biggest cost center for an organization. so you know it's i think and it's And it's hard to find opportunities you know in that you know on that line item to save.
00:29:32
Speaker
um So that makes a lot of sense. It also tends to be somewhere your greatest risk lies. um you know So sometimes those things can can go together. um you know Talking about leaders and and what they're comfortable using.
00:29:49
Speaker
um I'm curious, I mean, what kind of things, you know, should should tomorrow's leaders begin learning today? it can be in relation to tech or people or both.
00:29:59
Speaker
Are there new roles or demands that the next ah generation needs to be prepared for? Well, I mean, obviously the the easy answer is AI. It is clearly continues to evolve.
00:30:12
Speaker
continues It evolves in ways that obviously improve people's productivity and capability and in some degrees reduces jobs or certainly limits the part of the human interaction that that is required for some jobs, right? um And so that certainly is an area to not ignore.
Networking & Communication in Leadership
00:30:35
Speaker
um i think where where I see, you know,
00:30:41
Speaker
um people as we hire occasionally or working with people is still in interaction, ah maintaining relationships. How easy is it or for you to to engage in conversations?
00:30:55
Speaker
You know, we're doing this, obviously, video streaming podcast, but but just, you know, when I go to trade shows or events with customers, it's amazing to me to um to see how many young people there aren't there They're generally still kind of our generation, even though I know younger people are involved in these organizations, but they're still not at the ones at these shows.
00:31:19
Speaker
And of the ones that I've had privileges of, you know, kind of talking to whatever, there still is just a hesitancy. They don't, they don't know how to engage in small talk, you could say, or they're just very, you know, very shy. And I think for people that are starting out or want to get into entrepreneurship, mean, you've i built I will say I built Griffin HR on two things. One, my tech experience, but also my relationships with people.
00:31:46
Speaker
yeah They're the ones that are going to really help you get started. yeah They'll lean on you because you've built some level of trust or engagement with them. And you need that to just kind of help you get started to you know for different things and and the people they know as well. right And so I think I think with just continuing to try to put yourself in situations to learn, you know, to become more social, for lack of a better word, or just more engaging. And it's not that you got to be super interesting. i honestly don't think myself is super interesting, but I'm willing to talk to people and talk to them about the company or just trying to talk to them about whatever it is that's going on, you know. wherever you're at and and it works, you know, it works because then next time you talk to them, you know, then maybe you get into work or not, you know. yeah But it goes beyond what you asked, but I still think that's a critical skill set that has to be done and and built upon for people as we continue to, you know, to try to grow and and and and move up in the corporate world.
00:32:45
Speaker
i I almost would take it a step further, right? I mean, first of all, everything, I i agree 100% with what you're saying, right? In entrepreneurship, just in in in business leadership, right? The ability to communicate with others, I think is, I mean, it's it's critically important at every level, I think.
00:33:08
Speaker
Um, you know, and I think that, I think that networking, I think that, you know, building that muscle is, um, is incredibly important, but, you know, I'd also think that within the organization and how the workforce within your organization, how it works together, right. That that's part of another part of where I think it becomes critically important, right. Culture continuously changes and evolves all kinds of culture, culture of compliance, but there's culture across a dispersed workforce, right?
00:33:38
Speaker
Distributed teams, remote teams, um right? So it's it's great for building businesses and building your network, right? Also leadership, but you know at the same time, if if you're working in an organization that has a remote team, you you better have some pretty good communication skills as well, right? yeah, yeah, absolutely. I don't hesitate with that at all. You're absolutely right. You've got to work at maintaining it even over and above just getting on the call to say, what are you doing? Are you getting your stuff done? Right.
00:34:08
Speaker
Spend some time to get to know the people. Yeah. You know, and, and, and even in change management and in, in technical adaptation and adoption. Right. um I think all these things become critically important, you know, so i you took it far, but I would just, I just keep kind of going with it. you Kind of take it even further.
00:34:28
Speaker
yeah what are What are your predictions for the future when it comes to the culture for either for HR teams, for for distributed teams, um you know the the ones that we're talking about you know in high turnover industries that you see a lot of, that work with a lot of? What kind of culture do you think HR leaders need to foster for future success in these environments?
00:34:50
Speaker
Well, that's a great question, Curtis. To be honest, I haven't thought a ton about what that looks like because I'm still... sort of trying to understand it myself, right? We've got this whole, you know, generation that's grown up a hundred percent on tech yeah um that dealt with COVID in the last five years that really, you know, reduced their ability to interact for a couple of years, even depending on where they're at in the,
00:35:14
Speaker
you know, in their life life cycle. And so how to interact and then couple that with, like you said, remote teams, technology and tools are available where I don't have to find somebody in my metro area anymore. I can find somebody believe that I need to get that work done.
00:35:31
Speaker
Um, and that's, that's, you know, even more complexity. And so i think what we were talking about is, is correct. We really need to make sure uh, we're engaging them, we're trying to work with them and understand them. I still think if you can, in-person events are important.
00:35:49
Speaker
um I think, I think, um and we think we have to figure out, and I'm guilty of this myself, like how to get people to come out of their shell a little bit, recognizing, i hate to use that word shell, but try to just recognize that people are at different comfort levels of, of,
00:36:07
Speaker
you know, interacting. and And I know like my wife included, like she's very hesitant about, you know, mixing anything personal with with her work. She doesn't like to talk too much about, you know, what's going on in the family or anything like that, good or bad necessarily.
00:36:23
Speaker
And I believe that sentiment is shared amongst a lot of people. They want to keep work and business, you know, separate. And and whereas I more have no hesitation, you know, bringing the two together and talking to people about what's going on.
00:36:36
Speaker
um I think that helps build the relationships better. helps you communicate more like you're talking about when you can, because I think if you maintain this strict separation, you've you've got a wall up, right? You've created this wall. It makes it difficult to, I don't want to talk about it And I was kind of, Not everything. I dont know you're not allowed to ask certain questions of people and, you know, there is some rules around this stuff. So I'm not suggesting anybody deviate from that. But, ah but yeah, but I just like, I just look at it as like, it's not me trying to like,
00:37:10
Speaker
you know interview somebody on a personal basis. It's just trying to interact to make them comfortable, to build a relationship with somebody to hopefully get some trust and feel like, yeah, I care about you in a way that's not just did you get your work done, you know, always. um so i I don't know. I think I went went around your question a little bit or at least kind of took a different level. But I still think that that's important to share and to communicate more than just what your work status is.
00:37:39
Speaker
think it's important and kind of, yes, no, it does answer the question. I think it kind of answers my next one. You know, I'm i'm always kind of curious about, you know, people's perspective on maybe a a human-centric related insight or cultural competency that tomorrow's leaders really are going to need to develop in order to thrive. And I think you've really touched on a lot and you talked about how you know, in today's world, kids are being raised in this environment of of technology, right? it's it's It's almost like sensory overload, that is you know, and it forces a lot of us to, at least a lot of them to shut down. and that, and their only way that they know to communicate is through a device sometimes, right? So being able to actually have conversations, being able to interact with people, learning how to build a network, learning how to have that conversation is super important. At the same time,
00:38:32
Speaker
this is where it gets kind of interesting. You made the comment about getting people out of their shell. And sometimes the only way they know how is on the device. Yeah. Right. so you, it's, it, what do the, what does a leader do with that information? Right. We want people to interact with each other. And we also know that there's these folks who the only way they know how to do it.
00:38:56
Speaker
Yeah. Is this way. I think, I think, Even leading up to our conversation, right, is is maybe you're interacting with that individual on their device, but asking those kinds of questions that are not work just so that you as the leader get some of that information.
00:39:14
Speaker
yeah and then it still is a delicate balance, but now you can start to engage that person on some of that information that you've collected from the device, but start to engage them in a conversation, right?
00:39:27
Speaker
Try to get them to talk about it. And again, we're not trying to pull teeth or anything from people. It's really just to start to get them comfortable talking about other things besides work.
00:39:37
Speaker
So, um so I, you know, I think you got to figure that out. I'm by no means an expert at it, but, but I do, I think it's, I think it's important. I think you touched on it in the sense that they're comfortable talking through that technology.
00:39:52
Speaker
How do you get them to talk out or else the technology is going to continue to evolve yeah in ways we obviously don't know. And, and you know, part of me is scared about that because I'm like, are we just going to be interacting devices, period? You know, and what does that look like? it Could be. a little bit of that that kind of sits out there that makes you kind of wonder the way things continue to go.
00:40:15
Speaker
You used a good word there, right? Evolve. I mean, are there aspects of people dynamics that are going to change as the business landscape
Future of HR & Compliance
00:40:24
Speaker
evolves? Maybe this is one of those things.
00:40:26
Speaker
It very well could. I mean, the less year you're interacting personally and the more on your device, then you know the dynamics change as a result of that. I think, you know is that good or bad?
00:40:38
Speaker
I don't know. I don't always think social media is good with people communicating on social media because you feel differently communicating on a device as is I went and we're talking than you do when you're in person.
00:40:50
Speaker
Yeah. You know, there's so many conversations. I'm sure you're familiar with this that I got to have a difficult conversation. Sure. It's easy to have it on the device, but it's way more personal to have it in person.
00:41:02
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And you're generally going to get, a more favorable response in person than if you do it on a device, or at least I think about it that way. because Because you talk, you either can see what people are reacting, you can soften it, whatever it is you need to do, or you can negotiate, then when you're trying to do it, you even through a screen or whatever or you know text or whatever else, right? yeah um And so that's where I think You know, there's not enough because people are on their devices all the time.
00:41:31
Speaker
You're not having those difficult conversations to get more comfortable at how to do it. You know, um i i love that. Any predictions like about what the future is going to look like in the world of HR, right? I mean, you know you know the world of compliance very well. You know, any upcoming changes that it's important for for HR and other leaders to kind of stay abreast of?
00:41:59
Speaker
I think again as as technology evolves, I think there's going to continue to be figuring out what the right mix of people and technology is.
00:42:12
Speaker
And sort of a redefining of of those people roles, what do they need to be skilled at. you know so you know doing the process stuff is not going to be their focus. Their focus is going to be, and I think that's a large part of the intent, their focus is going to be more on people handling handling people issues and understanding, i mean, they have to still understand the tech that's being used to fill the process at some level or at least make sure they have resources available to do that. But I think the true ah HR is going to evolve more toward being
00:42:54
Speaker
focusing on people, people I'm hiring and any people issues I might have within your organization, and the less on what are all the tools and things i need to get it done because that's going to continue to get smarter, better. Yeah. food cheaper Yeah. Well, with all these, with with all these changes, you know,
00:43:15
Speaker
For so many years up until recently, right, it's been people and then your AI agents and robots. And as things start to go like this with all these changes, how do you see your own work evolving?
00:43:28
Speaker
Well, it's, you know, part of the compliance challenge is what what do they, what do they in my case, when you talk about four by ninety Verify, what does U.S. government allow you to do when it comes to getting these things done.
00:43:45
Speaker
And there is limitations. For example, I'll give you one. There's long time been this sort of idea or statements that's not 100% articulated well in black and white, but that you can't pre-fill an I-9 form from another system.
00:44:04
Speaker
Boy, when they fill it out, is supposed to fill it out themselves at the time that they fill it out. Now, it's one of these things, it's a gray area and and sometimes you find auditors that care more about enforcing that than others, um but it's a gray area. And so then I mentioned that because as we've looked at ways to advance to you know to advance technology and use it more,
00:44:28
Speaker
The idea is, well, can you, you know, what can we pre-fill? What can we do with ID validation, verification of technology that comes into play in other industries like, you know, gambling and banking, where they do a lot more like video technology-based verification. that is part of the I-9 process, you don't have to do that, like in-depth verification, but some organizations want it that deal with fraud on top of just compliance. And so we're always kind of trying to figure out what can we add? What can we do to kind of improve what people are looking for without
00:45:06
Speaker
um without jeopardizing what the government allows in the process. And so we've seen other competitors out in the market that have kind of already done it. And ah in some ways is that we don't agree with, you know, we think, I don't think you're allowed to do that yet.
00:45:21
Speaker
oh And then again, it just comes down to if you're audited or not and what the auditor says, because some of it is gray. ah but But we're certainly kind of keeping track of that and trying to figure out new you know new ways to improve or or add capability, even if it is, we'll say add on versus in enforce um to, to make things easier and to automate all those kinds of things. But, but there's a definite balance that we have to address. That's not applicable obviously everywhere.
00:45:50
Speaker
Yeah. Well, kind of last question is we, is we wrap up here one that you might hear. I like to ask a lot, but you know, if an entrepreneur and leader,
00:46:01
Speaker
and asks you for their single most important piece of advice matt about managing people well, about taking care of the workforce, about maintaining compliance. right You're on an elevator up to the top floor before those doors open and they walk right out of there. What is that one thing that you tell them?
00:46:17
Speaker
You get one thing. That's it. I get it. You mixed your like leading and compliance and all these things. Right. I mean, um you know, for me, if I'm, you know, I usually just tell, tell people, ah you know, I, I compliance is, is not that complicated, but it's applicable for some for sure.
00:46:42
Speaker
um And I think take a look at it. And if it makes sense, you know, certainly look into some tools because they're going to guarantee you a level of, again, I go tools, meaning I-9 tools. They're going to give you that compliance level more so than standard tools. Yeah.
00:46:57
Speaker
I'm going to give you a second piece just because you mixed topics on me. If it's if it's a managing people, then I think one of the biggest things I've heard and worked towards is know your audience. And I'm sure you've heard that.
00:47:09
Speaker
So when you're explaining whether it's clients, whether it's people in your business, whoever it is, being able to deliver advice, your message, whatever it is in the right um nomenclature, terminology for the person that you're talking to yeah it's paramount. And it's one of those things that over the course of my career, many people have said I have ah unique ability to explain technology to the CEO and to the low level, you know, resource entry level person coming into the company and the technology person on the backend, right? I can, I can vary my pitch, my explanation appropriately um to be able to communicate whatever it is i need to do. So knowing your audience and kind of thinking about that before you speak, not just whatever you're doing is the other kind of piece of advice I like to, like to impart on people when asked. I, I, I think that's an important piece of it. You know, it,
00:48:08
Speaker
And it's pretty incredible that you have that scope, right? that you can they have that That you have that latitude to be able to go all the way from entry level to senior leadership and then all the way as deep you know on the technology side. So kudos to you, Mark. Mark, I really appreciate all the all the insights. Thanks for joining me today.
00:48:28
Speaker
Well, it was great. it was I enjoyed the conversation. Curtis, you you challenged me in some of the questions for sure, but i certainly enjoyed it and hope your listeners can take something away from it.
00:48:40
Speaker
This was fun.
Conclusion & Call to Action
00:48:41
Speaker
I liked it. And this was another installment of Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Thanks for joining us. Please like, share this episode and subscribe while you're at it Be sure to visit mustardhub.com to learn how we help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge.
00:48:58
Speaker
And be sure to sign up to be one of the first to get started with Mustard Hub for free. Till next time.