Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
What Leaders Miss About Culture, Feedback, and Trust with Trish Steed
6 Plays10 days ago
Most leaders think they know what’s happening inside their organization, but the reality is often very different.
In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes sits down with Trish Steed, HR executive, advisor, and co-host of the HR Happy Hour network, to explore how storytelling, transparency, and honest feedback shape better workplaces. With a front-row seat to thousands of conversations across HR, tech, and business leadership, Trish brings a uniquely informed perspective on what’s actually changing and what isn’t.
They discuss why employees often don’t speak up, how leaders misread engagement and retention challenges, and why many organizations ask for feedback but fail to act on it. Trish shares practical insight on building trust through vulnerability, creating space for honest dialogue, and why the biggest culture breakdowns often happen at the manager level.
The conversation also explores the hidden challenges of small and mid-sized businesses, where visibility is limited, and leaders may be closest to the problem but farthest from the truth.
This episode is a must-watch for founders, HR leaders, and operators who want to build more transparent, connected, and resilient teams and turn feedback into meaningful action.
About Trish:
Trish Steed is a seasoned HR executive and strategic advisor with a proven track record of aligning business objectives with transformative people strategies. She counsels HCM vendors on product innovation, go-to-market positioning, and brand storytelling to bridge the gap between HR professionals and technology providers. With deep expertise in market analysis and trend forecasting, Trish has guided companies navigating the evolving landscape of human capital management.
A recognized influencer and analyst in the HR tech space, Trish co-hosts two of the industry’s most influential and long-running podcasts, the HR Happy Hour and At Work in America—alongside Steve Boese. Together, they spotlight the issues shaping the future of work, offering candid conversations with thought leaders, practitioners, and innovators. Trish also co-hosts H3 Live, a dynamic video series that brings fresh perspectives and real-time insights to the HCM community. All of these, along with several other related podcasts, are part of their wider HR Happy Hour Media Network.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Guest Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome back to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these episodes, I sit down with the people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes, and my guest today is Trish Steed.
00:00:17
Speaker
Trish is seasoned HR executive and strategic advisor with a proven track record of aligning business objectives with transformative people strategies. She counsels HCM vendors on product innovation, go-to-market positioning, and brand storytelling, to bridge the gap between HR professionals and technology providers.
00:00:37
Speaker
With deep expertise in market analysis and trend forecasting, Trish has guided companies navigating the evolving landscape of human capital management.
Trish's Role in HR Tech Industry
00:00:46
Speaker
a recognized influencer and analyst in the ah hr tech space trish co-host two of the industry's most influential and long-running podcasts the hr happy hour and at work in america alongside steve bos we get that right both yeah um Together, they spotlight the issues shaping the future of work, offering candid conversations with thought leaders, practitioners, and innovators. Trish also co-hosts H3 Live, a dynamic video series that brings fresh perspectives and real-time insights to the HCM community.
Career Journey & Passion for HR
00:01:19
Speaker
All of these, along with several other related podcasts, are part of their wider HR Happy Hour Media network. Welcome to Behind the Build. Thanks so much for joining me, Trish.
00:01:30
Speaker
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited for today's recording. Yeah. um That was a mouthful, but all amazing stuff. You have done so many things. You continue to do so many things. You've spent years at the intersection of hr media, tech,
00:01:50
Speaker
but I guess kind of before we get into all that stuff, I'm just kind of curious to hear about your your own personal you know career journey. What brought you or brought me to to where you are now?
00:02:01
Speaker
Wow, that's such a good question. I'm glad we're starting with that. I actually did not know what I wanted to do when I went to college, probably like many students. And I happen to be very interested in investigating. So I think my first dream job would have been like FBI. And in the meantime, as I was doing my sociology major and political science minor, I met my dad's HR manager.
00:02:28
Speaker
And I immediately fell in love with what she was doing and just wanted to be like her. And so i think I was a junior in college at the time and everything in my world switched. I knew that I would get that sort of investigative sort of um piece that I was looking for in human resources, right? When you talk about in employee relations and some of those cases. But I also really liked the structured side of HR. So for me, it was a really nice way to take some of the skills that I had already and really get to do what I wanted to do. So it's turned out to be the perfect fit for me.
00:03:04
Speaker
I'm always kind of curious to you know about what brings people, I guess, into the the people space, right? And what makes them so passionate. and it sounds like you also get an opportunity to do a lot of the research also. I mean, at the same time, right, you're talking to the practitioners, you're talking to the organizations, right? And you're able to kind of continue to do that sort of investigative analysis, um sort of in in real time through all of these conversations that you have.
Origin of HR Happy Hour Podcast
00:03:33
Speaker
right um So I have to ask you about the HR happy hour, right? Not just because you had me as a guest. Thank you, by the way, that was a lot of fun. um But through HR happy hour um and including with, you know at work in America, you've had like a front row seat, right? To all these talks, all these conversations, all these discussions about work and workers and, and and employers across ah you know the country.
00:04:00
Speaker
What inspired you to build a platform around these stories specifically? Yeah, it's a, it's a pretty interesting story. Like many things in my life, it happened quite accidentally.
00:04:12
Speaker
And I had been working um at the point I joined the happy hour. i believe Steve Bowes had been doing it since 2008. He was a professor at Rochester Institute of Technology, and he actually started it as a way for his students to hear from ah HR leaders across the globe. And it was very just for them only.
00:04:35
Speaker
In 2009, he opened that up and I actually became a fan of the show. So I was a practitioner. um i think it was a director level at that point. And there weren't a lot of places on the internet where you could go and get information on how to do ah HR better. So for me, it was a personal resource. I became a really big fan of the show, eventually got to guest on the show. And then he would have me sort of host if he was not available. So i kind of just worked my way into it by 2013. And it was just the HR happy hour at that point, one show.
00:05:08
Speaker
And I joined as his co-host. And from there, it just became what are we interested in learning more about that we don't feel like we can find anywhere else. So many of those early shows were very tech focused at the front end. But what we were missing was that storytelling piece you mentioned. And that's why we came up with about five years ago, adding on the show at Work in America, because that's purely story driven, right? The actual stories of how work is being done, how work impacts people and how people are shaping sort of the future of what's coming next.
00:05:43
Speaker
So since then, it's grown to many more shows, but it really grows as people tell us what they want to hear more about. So, yeah, you, you have so many different show. I think now you have like seven of them. So tell, I want to hear about all of them. What, what are they? What makes them unique from one another?
Diversity of HR Happy Hour Shows
00:06:05
Speaker
Sure. So, well, you mentioned sort of the three that we have that Steve and I do. um Steve actually also started a ah separate podcast called The System of Record, which is much more focused on yeah ERP and supply chain in that interaction with HR leaders. And so it's not just for HR. Really, none of them are. They're for business leaders, right, who just want to learn more about people. So System of Record is more of that holistic approach to your running your business.
00:06:33
Speaker
um We have H3 Live, which you mentioned. It's just more of an interview-style show. It's a little more casual. It's just Steve and I being ourselves talking about whatever's top of mind. Steve also does the Workplace Minute.
00:06:46
Speaker
He started that on Alexa, so you can have it as a skill in your Alexa device, but it's also a separate little two to, say, five-minute podcast. So if you just want that quick hit of what's going on in the world of work, you get that. We have our Gen Z podcast, The Play-by-Play.
00:07:03
Speaker
That one's been going for three years. We have two hosts, Jack and Nick, who are Gen Zers, who are talking about everything from business to sports, you name it, whatever's pop culture, whatever's top of mind for them. And then we have h r Means Business, which is our European focused, European Middle Eastern focused podcast. And that's run by Mervyn Denon.
00:07:26
Speaker
And I'll say it here because by the time this runs, we're going to have a new podcast show, HR Connection. with ah Sabrina Baker and one of her colleagues, Maria, and they are going to be talking about small business HR. So we're constantly growing. Again, it's we add people or shows for things maybe we don't have time to cover or maybe we don't have the right expertise to cover.
00:07:51
Speaker
Yeah. Or frankly, where it sounds like there might be gaps. I mean, absolutely you're you know you're owning this h the the HR podcast space. I love, I love it. I love all of these topics and they're also, um, so niche, but so necessary. Um, I would love to hear more about the small business one when, uh, when you're ready to tell me about it, we can always talk about that stuff later. And it's a segment that I think is, is kind of near and dear to,
00:08:16
Speaker
To my own heart, I've been pretty active in this in the small business community for a very long time. So I think that that, you know, is super interesting to me on ah on a lot of other
Storytelling in Leadership
00:08:29
Speaker
levels. um Through HR Happy Hour, you you help a lot of the the voices in HR and in workspace. Yeah.
00:08:39
Speaker
You know, I'm kind of curious why storytelling and and conversation matter so much in shaping how these leaders think. um You know, and and and just to add a little bit more context to that. um
00:09:00
Speaker
So much of so much of I think what's what's expected um revolves around. um Well, I guess how to better articulate. um What I constantly see and what I constantly hear when I talk to a lot of business leaders you know are are challenges regularly that that they face.
00:09:22
Speaker
um Sometimes we know what to do, sometimes we don't. right um Oftentimes you see them seek input from you know, a variety of different counsel, you know, sources, right? Consultants, advisors, the rest of their team, their boards,
00:09:39
Speaker
um without the input, right, from a lot of folks who, um you know, I think have valuable things to offer, i think a lot of leaders can be often be left in the dark. And sometimes it's hard for folks to admit that they don't always know everything and they don't always know the right way.
00:09:56
Speaker
um so I'm just kind of curious from your mind, like, You obviously see the value in it because you've started podcasts, right? And you you participate in and and you help create a lot of them that are driven by storytelling and these conversations. And I'm kind of curious why you know and how you feel like that matters so much and in how these leaders think and behave and you know kind of go about doing what they need to do.
Insights from Podcast Hosting
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, great question. I think for me, it goes back to thousands of years ago. The way that people learn has been passed down through storytelling, right? So all of our ancestors were're were telling stories to each other about how to do things, right? Maybe it's how to learn to farm better, right? Or some other type of skill they were learning. And I don't think that's different now. I think we're still very much, people love to talk to other people and find out What makes them tick?
00:10:55
Speaker
How did you learn to do what you're doing? How can I be part of that? And so it becomes kind of infectious. And I found that both in the workplace before I found podcasting as as a thing, as a mechanism for learning for myself and my teams. But when you're thinking about being a leader,
00:11:14
Speaker
It's often because you have expertise in a certain category or topic. It's not necessarily you're good at leading people. So for me, that's where the storytelling becomes really important. It's where you can learn from people who've been doing it maybe longer or they're approaching it with a more open mind maybe. or they've just had access to networks or people that you don't have access to. So I think a little bit for me, the podcasting piece before I was a podcaster myself was about training my team and my fellow leaders. And that goes across professional services, healthcare, care ah high tech companies I worked with. I used it as a way to teach the teams.
00:11:55
Speaker
Or if I heard a certain podcast, I would actually send that out to my business leaders. and say, listen, you can learn from this particular person. I love that. Well, then that that kind of leads me to how has hosting these conversations changed your perspective on work and leadership? What have been the big takeaways for you?
00:12:16
Speaker
i have learned more from all of these conversations that I've had over the last years. whatever, you know, almost 15 years with people that I would have ever learned in college that I've ever learned on the actual job. Because when you think about when you're working, you're kind of buried sometimes or a lot of times in the work.
00:12:33
Speaker
And you're not necessarily having all those conversations. So for me, it's been, you know, I walk away from these conversations with pages of notes, things that I want to do different in my business, things that I want to share with maybe other business leaders I've connected with over the years. And it's not unknown for me to go back to a former employer and say, oh, I just recorded a show. I think you would really benefit from listening to this. So for me, i approach every single conversation as I'm here to learn.
00:13:01
Speaker
And if I'm learning something, that means my listeners are learning something. Yeah. I appreciate that. i love I love that. I think I tend to kind of see it the same way. So this that makes me feel like I'm i'm um i'm doing it right.
00:13:16
Speaker
um when When you had me on um on the podcast, we had a great discussion about retention and engagement in in small and and and mid-sized businesses. Yeah.
00:13:31
Speaker
You know, i'm kind of curious just from your own perspective, because I know that the show was really more about my perspective. um now Now I get to turn it around. now Right, I love it. why Why do you, you know, or I should say, why do, you know, these leaders, these SMB leaders face such a different different and and often harder people challenge than those in larger organizations? Right.
00:13:58
Speaker
Wow. I think that's a really interesting question. What comes to mind for me are a couple things. I think when you're in a smaller business, you're more likely to know everyone personally, or at least visually, right? If you're in the same space, maybe. um So there's a little more interaction there.
00:14:17
Speaker
day to than you would find in maybe an enterprise size organization. And so there's more accountability. You, you have to be certain about the things that are coming out of your mouth.
00:14:29
Speaker
Right. And so I think people hold back. They're afraid they might offend people. They are afraid they might not ah ask the right questions or they might look silly asking certain questions. So in a weird way, i think if you're in a smaller organization, sometimes you're more quiet about what you need to know or what you do know.
00:14:48
Speaker
And therefore you're maybe more at risk of, of leaving the company because you're not necessarily as connected as you might think you would be. yeah I think the other thing in a small business is there are so many hats that one person can wear and they're really probably heads down in those different functions. And so it doesn't lead to more connection. I almost feel like the bigger the organization gets, oddly, you have more opportunities for connection.
00:15:17
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. That's, um which is sort of counterintuitive, I think, for for a lot of folks to to think about it that way. It's never really been...
00:15:30
Speaker
I'm not sure that I've had a conversation where it's sort of been approached that way, but I can sort of certainly see how um how you can see that, right? When it comes to to that engagement, to retention, where where do you think that leaders most often underestimate or predict mistake really what the problem is, right? You know, where they may feel that it's one thing, it could be a a different a different thing or something that they've underestimated to be more serious than it can be.
00:16:05
Speaker
Yeah. I think when you're leading a small organization, you're Well, not even small. So there there is a divide between employees and leaders. There always has been, there always will be. So I think what happens is the employees don't picture leadership in any size organization as people who have the same problems, insecurities, issues.
00:16:31
Speaker
issues that they do. So there's there's this line kind of drawn. i I was very early in my career when I had ah a partner at a very large public accounting firm tell me, I'm just a guy.
00:16:44
Speaker
So I think if you are in a leadership role, if you you want respect, right, because you've earned that position, but you have to remember, people are not seeing you as just a guy or just a girl.
00:16:57
Speaker
You're their CEO, you're their CFO, right? And so there's just this disconnect. So you don't always get told what's really going on in the organization. You're not going to hear about problems. i think that's why having ah HR in a small business is even more critical. And we're in front of an HR, someone who is that connecting piece so that you understand what's really going on kind of behind the scenes that you're not aware of. I think when you're in a larger larger organization, that's where HR really does shine. They have that function and sometimes enough staff in that department to kind of go out and cover and hear what's going on on the floor, right? So whether you're in a manufacturer, you're in healthcare, you're in a professional services or government, It doesn't really matter if you've got people out there hearing what's going on and reporting back the good and the bad, you're more likely to be able to solve those issues. Sometimes that's just not possible. We're in a family business. Same thing. Right. yeah People are often afraid to speak up about what's really going on that might cause them to leave.
00:18:01
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like visibility definitely plays a huge role, i think, right? you know Leaders oftentimes can't fix things they can't see um or the or that they don't know exist.
00:18:16
Speaker
And it's interesting about how critically important HR can be in a small business But maybe even in ah ah one of those micro-smalls, it's not really called HR. It's somebody else whose responsibility it is, like you said, to play that connector. HR is kind of like the the organizational therapist right in ah in some some in some capacity.
00:18:39
Speaker
So somebody has to own that role. Even if you're a ah small business with two people, you know the owner is owns that role. And as it grows, you know that role might be assumed by somebody else. But the eyes and the ears internally to be able to see, to sort of in ingest all of the day-to-day goings on that may not be communicated back up to leadership, or if it is a leader, to be able to make sure that you know that leader is doing what they need to to make those connections and listen and hear and understand all the things that are going on. Because like I said, leaders can't always fix things they can't see, right? So visibility is is incredibly important.
00:19:23
Speaker
The bigger the organization gets, it's sort of naturally baked into, um I guess, the the guts of the company, right? And so that's where it can really, like you said, I mean, that's where HR can really shine. Does that does that resonate?
00:19:40
Speaker
It does. I think when you're thinking about whether you've worked in a small business before or even a mid-sized business, I think there's some of that still at that level.
Vulnerability in Leadership
00:19:49
Speaker
It's so difficult to be vulnerable when you're a leader.
00:19:55
Speaker
we're We're sort of raised that, I think it depends on the generation maybe that came before you. So I'm a Gen Xer. The boomers that I reported to were definitely not showing me vulnerability, right? They needed to seem like they knew what they were doing at all times. And, you know, and I thought they did. and I'm sure now that I'm in those positions and have been for a while,
00:20:20
Speaker
it's difficult to say, you know what, I don't know. You mentioned at the start, right? I don't know the answer to everything. um But I think if you are vulnerable with your teams, whether you're in a small business, midsize or large, if they see that, again, you're just a person and you're open to having someone younger, someone less experienced question you, ask, why are we doing these, right? People kind of complain now about Gen Z coming in and ah They want to know why we're doing everything we do. That's a good thing.
00:20:51
Speaker
it puts us on the spot, but it's a good thing. It makes us rethink, why are we doing what we do? Are we we doing it because we've always done it this way? Are we doing it because we don't know any better?
00:21:01
Speaker
And so I think it's it's almost like the higher level you go the more closed off you become just by default. Right? So if I were a leader in an organization of any size, I would be trying to figure out how do I connect with the people who have been with us six months? It's not even about generationally. It's like length of service.
00:21:23
Speaker
What did they think? What are they seeing? And show them that they can be really honest without repercussions. Now, again, many cultures of organizations don't have that um level of transparency.
00:21:36
Speaker
But I think if you want to be more successful, you'll pursue that.
Aligning Culture with Operations
00:21:40
Speaker
I feel like you've just touched on a few things that I think are are important to consider. And I'd like to talk about because you see it all the time in organizations that take pulse surveys that are curious what their employees think, but maybe don't necessarily have any sort of system or structure to support doing something with these answers. right We ask people what they think, but if we're not willing to take that into account with how we run our organization,
00:22:11
Speaker
ah oftentimes I think, you know, the employees sort of lose that incentive to be vocal, right? They're not going to do anything anyways. It doesn't matter what I say, this is the way it gets done. And so you hear that kind of rhetoric constantly, right? You hear organizations where culture's talked about, but it's not always enforced, right? the The values are just words on a wall, right? And maybe not necessarily in practice of what they do every day. um There isn't any sort of recognition for behaviors that promote these values, right? um
00:22:48
Speaker
And so I'm just kind of, that's sort of a, those are some observations and maybe some questions around that. Like, what does it take to make the culture visible? What does it take to make it actionable? How do you build systems to support it? And then what happens if you don't if you don't follow through?
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah. I'll start with the last question. You will lose your teams. You will. You'll lose your best performers and you'll be left with the ones that you wish you didn't have. Right. yeah And that is regardless of size of organization. This happens all the time. I think to to get to sort of the first question,
00:23:27
Speaker
If I'm in the C-suite, I should have a pulse on my leaders even more than my employees and my in my estimation. And here's why. You can have the best intentions for your culture to be one that matches the values that we all see in the mission statements or the vision statements.
00:23:45
Speaker
But your barrier to those being achieved, i think, are at the manager level. Anytime you get a supervisor, because you can have a pool of employees of any size that really want to to live to those values and those standards. If you have ah a manager that is impeding that and you're not noticing that,
00:24:08
Speaker
That's where I almost always see no matter what industry I've been in, it's almost always at that manager level. And because managers are very stressed, again, they might be an expert on a certain topic or a certain industry. So we've promoted them, but we don't necessarily promote people with people skills to keep that pulse going and doing something with it.
00:24:30
Speaker
So i love I love pulse surveying people and technology because It does give you the opportunity for that immediacy that you need. But if you have a manager that's not seeing that through, that's where I'd start. I'd want to know. I'd want a way to measure the manager's engagement with what they're hearing from their people. That's where I'd start.
00:24:52
Speaker
You know,
00:24:54
Speaker
I guess what what kind of comes up in my mind after that, and this is obviously something that that we think about and deal with a lot, but what role do you see technology playing in that, in building the culture, in assisting management with those things, you know, both now, in the future, you know, any, any you know and And maybe this is for, we can we can kind of touch on this a little bit later, but ah predict predictions coming down the pike for how this can be improved or how you see it being improved, right?
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, technology is great. I'm obviously a huge fan, especially when it comes to HCM technology, because I've spent the majority of my practitioner career career without good technology, And I think now more than ever, you can be enabled to see and to have results that demonstrate whether or not your culture is successful or not, whether or not your hiring is successful, whether or not your retention is successful. It's much more visible um in a concrete way yeah than ever before.
00:26:03
Speaker
Where I think we are lacking is then back to vulnerability. we We want to ask the questions, but we don't always like the the answers. I had a boss that used to say, don't ask any question that you're not ready to do action on the answer of.
00:26:18
Speaker
and like that. That's good advice. So true. So I think that's what's happening. as As leaders or as HR leaders specifically, we want to do all these surveys. We want to ask all the questions. Right.
00:26:33
Speaker
But what happens is when you get those answers, we're not always ready to make change. And that's where the managers and leaders come into play. They have to be willing to make changes and tweaks.
00:26:46
Speaker
um I think people in general are afraid of change. But when you position it as growth, I think that's where you could say, you know what, I'll give you one from the hospital system I worked for. i worked for BJC Healthcare in St. Louis for several years, and we would call it Even Better If.
00:27:03
Speaker
So it wasn't a criticism of, you know, hey, you're doing this wrong, Curtis. This this feedback has come in. You're not a good leader, right? it's It's less personal than that. It would be, Curtis, these are the things that through the survey, we found that you're doing really well. Your team has responded to this, this, and this.
00:27:21
Speaker
What would be even better if is if you now focused on this other thing? There's something about the way that you state things to people as to whether or not they're willing to take action.
00:27:33
Speaker
So I always just try and remember whether it's ah a partner I'm dealing with, a vendor that I'm trying to give advisory to, an HR leader who's called me because they heard something on a podcast or read something I wrote. I try and position when you talk to people, say, this would be even better if you did X, Y, Z in the next six months to sort of help them elevate instead of saying you're really missing the mark, you know?
00:28:02
Speaker
i like that. I think, I think that that's a great way to, to frame things. Um, and you made an interesting comment about, you know, when leaders get all this information and, and yet they may not be ready to make a change.
00:28:20
Speaker
I think that in some, in, in, in some cases, um, some cases that I, that, that, I know of, and i'm I'm, I'm sure I'm not the only one. I'm sure this happens all the time.
00:28:32
Speaker
You know, we, we put out surveys because there's, there's a mandate for something. We want to learn something. Um, oftentimes the responses that we get are not what we had predicted.
00:28:44
Speaker
um right? They're they're a little bit of a left turn. We start to see um problems, issues, things come up that that maybe weren't sort of in that straight line with what we were trying to figure out.
00:28:59
Speaker
And so I often see that it's not even necessarily that we're not willing to make a change. It's maybe that we're not ready or weren't prepared to make that change. And I think that what I've seen often, you know, other than the, the right there, there's obviously, you know, pulse surveys, you know, forms, whatever that, that kind of go out at regular cadence that happens periodically in organizations.
00:29:30
Speaker
Um, there's often other times where intentionally leadership wants to learn something specific and, um, and they will, you know, host these, these surveys, questionnaires, feedback forms, poster. I mean, you can call whatever you want to call them, to get specific information. And when something I think comes back that was unexpected, ah but happens to be a real pain point, um,
00:30:01
Speaker
I think they run into what what I consider sort of this decision friction where it's like, I thought something was a, but it's B I was ready to do something about a now B is in front of me.
00:30:15
Speaker
Right. And i don't know what to do about that. And i see this happen often. And often what I see this, this,
00:30:28
Speaker
i don't know if it paralyzes the leaderships but leadership, but but it can get deprioritized because they're so hyper-focused on what they think is a problem or should be addressed.
00:30:40
Speaker
And this creates ah just an unfortunate cycle of, again, what we talked about earlier, not employees not feeling like they're listened to because they gave the feedback. It just wasn't the feedback that the leadership was expecting to get.
00:30:53
Speaker
And so... you know, I don't know if you see these things. I'm kind of curious to get your, your take on what do leaders do in that situation, right? They obviously don't want to be part of the problem. I think everybody has a natural intent to want to fix things if they're broken to improve the environment that their workers are working in.
00:31:16
Speaker
But, um, you know, what happens in that instance when they run into something that they weren't expecting, right? and And now they're faced with this information about things that need to change, but they're not really prepared to address it.
Handling Unexpected Feedback
00:31:34
Speaker
Yeah. Such a good question. hi I think, a so couple things were're were coming to mind as you were asking it. I think that we need to remember that managers, supervisors, leaders, whatever their title is, they are also employees and we are often overloading them that they don't even have the time to prioritize employee feedback and doing something with it.
00:32:01
Speaker
So even to your point, if they they know, I think I've got this issue, feedback comes back, no, I actually don't have that issue. It's something else. They don't even have time to address it. So first of all, we need to somehow, maybe through technology,
00:32:16
Speaker
maybe through changing workload and how processes are handled, um we need to give them time. I can tell you, like working in professional services for a very long time, um we're always trying to get people to be more productive, more highly utilized.
00:32:32
Speaker
That might be you would think that's good for business, but it's not always because, again, you're taking time away just to think. We don't have time to truly think about how to respond sometimes. And I don't want to oversimplify this, but i'm I'm going to give an analogy that's a little more simple. um When I became a parent, I learned really quickly that things are going to pop up that I didn't anticipate or expect.
00:32:57
Speaker
Negative behaviors are going to be brought forward that I wasn't ready to handle or deal with. And one of the most effective tools as I've you know raised my twins now to be 22 years old has been, if I was just overwhelmed and didn't expect what was happening to be happening, I'd turn it back on them and say, I don't even know how to punish you. I don't even know what to do with this information, whatever, right? I would do the same for my employees because I think that that's how Again, back to showing vulnerability, but you don't have to know the answer, especially if you weren't expecting whatever feedback you've just received. So I would go back to that person or that department and and be honest and say, you know what?
00:33:41
Speaker
I really thought you were all going to be here. and what I'm seeing and hearing is we're here. Tell me about that. What do you think we should do? Now, you may or may not go with what they say, but it'll certainly give you more insight how to approach what they are wanting, expecting, needing, and maybe that's opening a dialogue. So now you can say, those are great ideas and here's why we can't do some of those, right? So you're giving that transparency or you can be surprised and maybe they've suggested something really brilliant you hadn't considered go, okay, how do we actually make this happen? Let's work together, right?
00:34:19
Speaker
So there's lots of ways I think we can build that relationship stronger so that it's not, i'm a I'm a manager, i'm a senior manager, I'm and a partner, whatever. I'm getting this negative feedback and i I'm paralyzed with it.
00:34:36
Speaker
so I love that. And yeah I think that that addressing it that way, i mean, honestly, even if nothing happens with the feedback they gave, they understand that their voice was heard still, even in that case, right? It wasn't simply dismissed or forgotten about or pushed aside or, you know, filed under everything else. um You know, their their their leader, their manager, their director, whoever was, brought it up and said, tell me more. um And I think that that right there probably creates an environment that people want to be
00:35:14
Speaker
part of, even if nothing gets done, at least they're heard. I mean, right. If it goes, obviously, if it goes on for years, you know, that, that may become problematic, but, um, just to stay forward thinking, like when you think about the future of work, um, what shifts do you think are, are, are getting too much attention, too little attention?
00:35:37
Speaker
um what do you over index on? I see companies still talking about the same issues and nothing changes. So I think that's where we're really getting stuck on the war for talent. We're getting stuck on employees need to be more engaged.
00:35:56
Speaker
We're stuck on, i need to work so that I get on a list of best places to work, for example, focused on expansive, um ah expansive areas that it are very hard to focus on. So I would say whatever it is you're focused on, whatever you think is important, go with it, but get granular, right? It's not about making some list. It's not about, you know, i need to hire two days faster than what we're hiring. I think we need to really think about what drives our business forward and then work backward from that.
00:36:34
Speaker
What gets us sales? What gets us better customer retention? What gets us you know, more products sold, whatever it is, and work backwards to, okay, now what do we need to do to help our employees make that happen?
00:36:46
Speaker
um I think what we're not spending enough time on, but I'm starting to hear the conversations we have on the podcast, for example, um was where I kind of first started getting an inkling of this.
00:36:57
Speaker
Employees are filled with chaos in their lives. So when you think about people go home from their their work, and whether it's politics or, you know, what's going on globally or what's going on in their finances, whatever's happening can be very chaotic.
00:37:19
Speaker
And what they see on TV can be very chaotic and cause a lot of stress. They don't want to come to a workplace that feels chaotic. So I would say focus more on is every single thing we're doing, helping our employees,
00:37:35
Speaker
being able to have less chaos in what they're doing with us. So that's one thing you can control. You can't control everything somebody brings with them on the weight of their shoulders.
00:37:46
Speaker
You can help them have a very calm, um transparent, cohesive, stable work environment. And that's what I think people really need. But if they go to work and they feel like,
00:37:59
Speaker
No one listens to me. My leader keeps pressing me for more and more things that I can't produce or do or know how to do. i'm not enabled to do. i'm not empowered to do. They're going to leave because you can't have chaos in your personal life and in your work life at
Reducing Workplace Chaos
00:38:16
Speaker
the same time. It just doesn't work. So they'll look for somewhere less chaotic, more stable, more calm.
00:38:23
Speaker
So if i'm if I'm a business leader and I do it in my own business, even though I'm a small business, we really all focus on how do we support less chaos at work, more cohesiveness, and a sense of calm. And that seems to work.
00:38:39
Speaker
I love that. have to go redo our values and add less chaos to that. but ah Can I tell you just one more thing? I really go back to my my time in healthcare, care which was not a long amount of time. it' just a few years.
00:38:53
Speaker
But what it was working at a children's hospital in St. Louis, St. Louis Children's Hospital. And we had a mission statement that I still remember today. Every place I've worked longer, I don't even remember what they were.
00:39:07
Speaker
It was to do what's right for children, not what's right for their parents, not what's right for the employees. not As long as what we were doing was right for kids, that's what we needed to do. Okay. So make sure whatever your vision is, it could just be.
00:39:22
Speaker
we're going to have a less chaotic work environment, period. Every single thing you do should align to that. I think when we have these vision statements and mission statements that are just, you know, all these wonderful words that no one can remember, then that means no one's working toward that goal.
00:39:37
Speaker
yeah So in the, in that hospital setting, every single thing we did had to do, had to be what was doing right for kids or in the case of HR doing right for the employees that were taking care of kids. So for example,
00:39:51
Speaker
I was working on a really interesting compensation strategy. was And it was important to me, to my team, to the HR department, but it was also nurses week and we needed to give out cupcakes to all the nurses.
00:40:06
Speaker
And I was like, i mean, I was younger. so I said, wait, I'm going to stop what I'm doing. That's really meaningful, and impactful to go give out cupcakes. And my boss was like, we're doing what's right for the people who are taking care of these kids. And I was like,
00:40:22
Speaker
Got it. And what I've tried to remember ever since then is what is the equivalent of giving out cupcakes to your employees, right? So whatever it is that you as a leader can stop doing what you think is important in the moment, go do something nice. If you're if you're a CEO, literally go take someone to lunch who you don't know.
00:40:44
Speaker
you know, ask them what's really going on. If you really want to know what's going on, make time for it. Ask them what's going on. I love that. The the the equivalent of the um the cupcakes for employees.
00:40:58
Speaker
and That one's going to stick with me. um Trish, a question that always kind of comes up to me, always love to sort of wrap up with, if a leader, you know, manager, director, CEO, business leader wants to build this workplace where People want to stay, you know, not just comply, you know, that environment that we've been talking about.
00:41:24
Speaker
You know, what's that so just the single most important thing that they can focus on first? You you have only a minute to talk to them on on an elevator up to the top floor. And before the door opens and they walk right out of there, what is that one thing that you tell them where they can get started?
00:41:39
Speaker
I think if I were that person in the elevator, I'd be wanting to think about what keeps me stepping into the elevator every time I do. What brings me back every single day?
00:41:50
Speaker
It's not money. It's probably something more like I work for someone I respect and that respects me. So i would be trying to think of, am I demonstrating to my team or my coworkers even that I respect them and that I see them And earlier you said, and I hear them, right? I'm doing something with that, making that. I think it's just that connection.
00:42:16
Speaker
That's it. I love that. Trish, thank you. Thanks so much. i appreciate you joining me today. this was This was awesome. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, same here. Obviously, I think we're we're aligned on so many things and trying to tackle many of the same questions. So very fun to be on.
00:42:32
Speaker
I think so. Big thanks to ah to everyone watching and listening to Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. ah Please visit mustardhub.com to learn more about Mustard Hub, discuss how we ah help companies become destinations for workplace happiness, and turn culture into a competitive edge. Until next time.