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Why Leadership Growth Starts with Self-Awareness with Mary Stieber Reinout
11 Plays1 month ago
Most people problems at work are really leadership problems.
In this episode of MustardHub Voices: Behind the Build, Curtis Forbes sits down with Mary Stieber Reinout, ICF-certified executive coach and founder of Threshold Coaching & Consulting, to explore what truly drives leadership effectiveness in today’s workplace. Drawing on decades of experience in executive development, talent strategy, and counseling psychology, Mary shares why self-awareness — and reducing self-deception — is the foundation of great leadership.
The conversation dives into why communication breakdowns derail teams, how leaders can develop healthier feedback loops, and why organizations often underinvest in leadership development. Mary also offers thoughtful insights on executive transitions, learning cultures, neuroinclusion, and what employees are really asking for in the future of work.
This episode is a must-watch for leaders, HR professionals, and founders who want to build stronger relationships, more resilient teams, and workplaces where people genuinely feel seen and supported.
About Mary:
As an ICF-certified executive coach and talent consultant, Mary specializes in executive development, assessment, leadership effectiveness, career management, and personal life transitions. With a rich career working in a variety of environments and industries, she’s led learning functions and talent development in several organizations, including a national nonprofit. Internationally, she designed leadership development programs on multiple continents and led new executive onboarding globally. Recognized as a Top 15 Coach in Saint Paul, Minnesota, she excels in coaching leaders toward leveled-up performance, increased resilience, and adaptability. With a counseling background and commitment to psychological well-being, she customizes coaching engagements to respond to whole person needs. Finally, combined with her ability to align and mobilize teams to implement organizational change, Mary is an expert designing executive transition strategies.
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Transcript
Introduction to Mustard Hub and Guest
00:00:05
Speaker
Hi everyone, it's time again for Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. In these episodes, we speak with the people building, backing, and running better workplaces. I'm your host, Curtis Forbes. Welcome to today's Fireside Chat.
00:00:17
Speaker
My guest today is Mary Stieber Reinout. As an ICF-certified executive coach and talent consultant, Mary specializes in executive development, assessment, leadership effectiveness, career management, and personal life transitions.
Mary's Coaching Philosophy and Interests
00:00:34
Speaker
With a rich career working in a variety of environments and industries, she's led learning functions and talent development in several organizations, including a national nonprofit. Internationally, she designed leadership development programs on multiple continents and led new executive onboarding globally.
00:00:51
Speaker
Recognized as a top 15 coach in St. Paul, Minnesota, she excels in coaching leaders towards leveled up performance, increased resilience, and adaptability. With a counseling background and commitment to psychological well-being, she customizes coaching engagements to respond to whole person needs.
00:01:10
Speaker
Finally, combined with her ability to align and mobilize teams to implement organizational change, Mary is an expert designing executive transition strategies. Welcome to Behind the Build, Mary. I'm happy you're Thanks. I'm happy I'm here. to get acquainted with you too, Curtis.
00:01:30
Speaker
that's ah That's quite a resume. And what missed that whole thing was you're a music lover like me and and a performer.
Mary's Passion for Leadership
00:01:40
Speaker
You're a pianist, a vocalist.
00:01:42
Speaker
You love jazz. So you're welcome here. um Did you do this professionally? I didn't do it professionally. um i continue to do it more vocationally in um the context of of community service ah and church service, um literally. and and And that gives me great joy. um That's awesome. I just, I loved it as a college student. Maybe we'll get an opportunity to play a ah tune together at some point.
00:02:17
Speaker
But um you have a very, very impressive track record in in training, coaching, and consulting in the area of leadership development. So, I'm curious, what what attracted you to this specific focus you know on developing leaders? What attracted you to the world of just professional development you know and human resources in general overall?
00:02:39
Speaker
Yeah. You know, I'd have to date back to even high school, Curtis. um I gravitated towards leadership myself.
00:02:50
Speaker
um and And that throughline continued um ah really through really throughout ah the subsequent decades to present day. Yeah.
00:03:01
Speaker
And in terms of ah developing people, you know, i I often say that um my career has been pretty defined by human development and as individuals and human relations and development of of teams and and relationships inside organizations, um across cultures, e etc.
00:03:29
Speaker
um I have ah been that person over the course of um my life that um that my inner circle has come to for um for counsel.
Founding of Threshold and Services Offered
00:03:43
Speaker
for for teaching, for advice, support, um and problem solving. And it's often been related to the human.
00:03:56
Speaker
ah And and that's that's been something I've been able to um to really leverage throughout the course of my career, regardless of the nature of the organization, the industry, the sector that I've worked in. And my volunteering kind of bears some of that out too.
00:04:15
Speaker
It's pretty remarkable how you have been able to just expand your reach globally, right? I mean, I think that when when a lot of folks get into even doing things like this, they don't necessarily realize how that influence is going to stretch, you know, beyond cultural borders as well. So that's that's that's pretty remarkable.
00:04:37
Speaker
um With all the experience under your belt, you launched Threshold Coaching and Consulting. so Before I dig into what Threshold is, what drove you to to open you know your own coaching and consulting practice? I'm always curious about what drives people to entrepreneurship.
00:04:56
Speaker
Yes. You know, what drove me, um ah it and somewhat reluctantly so, I was ah less than cooperative business.
00:05:08
Speaker
with, ah um with with what ah was was given to me um as the result of a layoff. um you know One looks at my LinkedIn profile or resume, et cetera, and they could very well conclude ah that I've um been a wanderer or not not one to stick around in roles. But the truth is
Entrepreneurial Challenges and Collaboration
00:05:36
Speaker
i um my my job was eliminated a half a dozen times. already in the course of my career. And um
00:05:45
Speaker
and and i i started to threshold on the heels of of one those layoffs. And that was um at the beginning of COVID. um So it was ah it it proved to be a ah gift in disguise. um And i have enjoyed the pursuit for, you know, for as long as I have been, um been, you know, doing doing the work of Threshold in combination with some contract work that I've been doing with other consulting groups um in similar spaces to my own. So um i I've never ah regarded myself as a very fierce competitor, and that is also playing itself out in my ah in my business of of threshold. um I do my best work in in collaboration with others in a partnership with people who are in my field as well as my clients.
00:06:47
Speaker
It's pretty remarkable, though, and I'd say that's that's not uncommon, right? The gift in disguise. think we've all been in a situation where we see we see something or we have to experience maybe something that... um It looks like an incredible challenge we have to overcome, but on the other side is something maybe better than we could have anticipated before that obstacle was in front of us. So tell tell me a little bit about Threshold. what What are the services that you offer? I'd love to hear a little bit more about you know the company.
00:07:21
Speaker
Yeah. Threshold um it exists for individuals, teams, and organizations that are seeking um to implement significant change um in individual lives as well as organizationally. um Most of my work currently is providing executive coaching services and ah for the purposes of assessment and development as well as executive career transition.
00:08:01
Speaker
um And so I'm, along with, ah you know, working with um executives who are inside organizations and happily so for the most part, I'm also working with with those who are facing a career transition, either um either one that they're aware of because ah the organization has communicated a decision or those who are seeking to make a change.
00:08:34
Speaker
um So those are the individuals I work with. The team alignment work I do also incorporates assessment work generally. um Examples being Hogan assessments, Strength Finder, um as well as Emotional Intelligence assessments,
00:08:55
Speaker
But all of those can certainly be administered, debriefed, and can can um come together to achieve some some results on behalf of a team for the good of an organization.
Significance of the Name 'Threshold'
00:09:11
Speaker
So that's where the team and organization comes into play. Those are um a few examples of what threshold is intended to to accomplish in the world.
00:09:24
Speaker
ah um I guess to some degree, right, there's there's this really significant level of authenticity, too. but right you talk about You talk about leadership changes, right, life changes, um organizational change, change management. You've gone through this, right? you You were a leader, right, who has actually also gone through a lot of those life changes, you know, so I can actually, I can really feel the authenticity in how you describe it. Okay.
00:09:54
Speaker
but And sometimes it's that obstacle, right, that gets forced in front of us, like you said, that thats you unwillingly went into ah entrepreneurship, um you know, which has been a blessing. And then in some cases, it sounds like people will manufacture that that obstacle and put it in front of them because they want to see a change.
00:10:15
Speaker
they maybe aren't really sure how to, I guess, how to step into that you know new new environment. I have to know, why the name Threshold?
00:10:26
Speaker
o Although I just kind of alluded to like stepping into a new environment. So i didn't process that before I said it, but I'm guessing it has something to do with that. Yeah, it is. is It's exactly right.
00:10:40
Speaker
um And you would um you know get a sense of that, I think, it um in in looking at my my website. um It is a crossing over.
00:10:51
Speaker
it also can be a leveling up, right? When talk about um hitting a threshold of um capacity or um desire ah and, you know, and yes. and And I think so it can connote that notion of of going up and or crossing over um into something new.
00:11:17
Speaker
ah and And for many, new can be interpreted um as a risky. It also invites, you know, obviously some some uncertainty, um but certainly a sense of adventure as well.
00:11:34
Speaker
So um most of my my work has attended to both of those scenarios um of of people who want to um level up on on their their abilities, their capacity for um for for something bigger, greater, faster, stronger, and then those who simply to to get to the other side of um ah a decision they've made um on behalf of themselves or or an organization um or getting to the other side of of um complexity and needing some support and someone to journey with them to to sort some things out related to that complexity.
00:12:29
Speaker
So what what kind of clientele shows up on your doorstep? You know, these individual executives, other leaders looking for professional development, right? I mean, do you ever have the organization sending their leaders to you? I mean, we don't have to name any names here, but I'm curious to hear a little bit about, you know, what what is what are the organizations like?
Coaching Focus: Behavioral and Leadership Improvements
00:12:51
Speaker
Mm-hmm. The organizations that send to me um can be organizations that are aware of a restructuring that um will impact some individuals who um who will be in in need of outplacement kinds of services. Right. Okay.
00:13:16
Speaker
So occasionally those are my clients. um The clients I'm working mostly with now are um come to me through organizations who um who recognize um potential, um high potential in in a particular leader or a team that um But they don't quite know how to crack the nut on on the individuals or the composite team um to get the get the best, get the most out of of the collective.
00:13:54
Speaker
um And therefore, what i where I come into that is being able to come alongside both individuals as well as the team to um to tap the um the facts of the of of the situation in terms of the assets of the group.
00:14:14
Speaker
as well as potential liabilities or or risks. um and ah and And then from there, you know work, of course, towards a development plan and in a way that is um ah articulates in a um a planful way what will benefit the individuals as well as the team.
00:14:38
Speaker
for, for leveling up, moving forward, accelerating, you know, whatever, whatever the, the pain points are, excuse me, and whatever the organization is needing individuals or a team to do.
00:14:52
Speaker
Um, so go ahead. Mary. and Yeah. I, I'm curious when a leader or or aspiring leader or somebody who's sent to you, when they when they come,
00:15:03
Speaker
How often do they actually really have clarity about what their needs are? How how often do are they self-aware when it comes to their behaviors, their leadership style? Is this something you see frequently or is this something you generally have to spend a lot of time educating on?
00:15:19
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:15:21
Speaker
That's a great question. And um often the self-awareness on the part of a leader has come, um has has been brought to their attention. first i like that. Right? through um Through a performance review, some feedback, tough feedback, and And, you know, perhaps combined with all the affirmations around um performance and potential and such. um
00:15:53
Speaker
But they usually are referred to me for particular reason, even if it's a small thing. set of reasons. um And it could be as ah as concrete as ah impatience and um tendency towards anger. Right? Really? um And um like in my role in in in that of course is to unearth, you know, some, you know, contextual um contributors perhaps to um the problems in relationships that, you know, that, that lead to a short fuse maybe. um
00:16:39
Speaker
But it's also to establish um some, some milestone goals around behaviors as well as, um, uh,
00:16:51
Speaker
you know recognition that you know the even root causes of some of what is contributing to the the difficulties that they're having in in their relationships. And i I'm often um sought out because of my counseling psychology background. So um while i i brand and market myself as as a coach, um Certainly my background as a counseling psychologist has been its own um secret sauce, or I feel like I'm a whisperer around matters of of um the psychology of of leadership, neuroscience associated with leadership, um because i've I've had enough experience
00:17:43
Speaker
enough education in that and can continue to um pursue, you know, specializations. um So that's why I think ah ah I'm, I'm sought out by organizations when there's, when when there's difficulty with, with how personality is showing up in an organization.
00:18:05
Speaker
Um, You know, a um a common, I think, school of thought is that most people problems um are leadership problems. Not necessarily the only the only thing, but um from a lot of the conversations that I've had on this show, you know, many of those problems stem from issues with communication, right? leaders can sometimes be inconsistent and effective when it comes to sharing what information that they're with their team that they they may need to know. um that something you see? i mean, what what what are consequences of that?
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah. you i The link between leadership and people problems in general? guess it's i guess it's sort of like, um you know, how many of these people problems are actually leadership problems. And then by extension,
00:18:55
Speaker
really those leadership problems where there may be a root cause of poor communication. Yeah. Yeah. um I see that very often, ah really. um And, and you alluded it to it earlier, as you were talking about, you know, in increasing self-awareness um I think most leaders and probably most humans, Curtis, you know, ah would be wise to to embrace the notion that we on any given day are walking around with a certain amount of self-deception.
00:19:38
Speaker
That's fair. Right? We just, um we we can't know it all relative to ourselves or others and on and on and on. um and And I think it's what's really important in order to increase awareness and increased self-awareness, but also the experience of followers, of leaders, is the relationship development piece.
00:20:10
Speaker
um that um And and the the feedback loops that that in healthy relationships ought to be part and parcel um of what happens in organizations.
00:20:23
Speaker
um such that leaders ah are increasing their self-awareness and their effectiveness due to how how how much cohesion and connectedness they have with their followers and in and what they are hearing and experiencing in their leader-follower relationships. Yeah.
00:20:50
Speaker
um So what am I saying there? Yes, um leader leaders have a unique responsibility for um for resolving people, problems, and organizations.
Organizational Learning and Leadership Development
00:21:05
Speaker
um But I think always in that dynamic...
00:21:12
Speaker
issue Certainly then. yeah certainly then and um i am a respecter of interpersonal dynamics and the personal responsibility that exists on on the part of of followers.
00:21:31
Speaker
too You know, there's something to be said for um attending to the whole yeah to improve its well-being, if that makes sense. So you followers and leaders, followers, and then a third entity around and how we are how how are we doing here?
00:21:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. so how would leader who's poor person how would a leader who's ah a poor you know communicator, for example, even begin to develop or upskill in that area?
00:22:04
Speaker
where Where do they start? Because if if if they're you know you mean you You pointed out that it's going to be the leader who who's tasked with resolving a lot of these issues, these people problems.
00:22:17
Speaker
If a lot of these problems are caused by their poor communication or their an inability to to do so, and maybe that's why they're sitting in front of you, right? Because it's been you know so kindly pointed out to them. What are the things that they can do to begin upskilling in that area so that they can begin to address that problem?
00:22:37
Speaker
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I think the first thing is to get to get feedback. it's um it because we can Because we of ourselves can you know fall prey to our own personal echo chamber and our own navel gazing.
00:23:02
Speaker
um And think that we have diagnosed our communication challenges accurately and completely.
00:23:13
Speaker
And that's just not the case. it's It's so important to hear hear from others. Yeah. And in terms of addressing the communication challenges, i i do think that a coach can be helpful um to the process of improving communication skills, be they oral, written, and and sometimes it's the channels, the the the methods of communication that um that that are the problem.
00:23:49
Speaker
I could see that being critical. I mean, at least having somebody to... thoughtfully hold up the mirror in front of you because mean without that, right, left to our own device, often we can travel down a you know um a path that lacks course correction, right? But having somebody who can, think, help on a regular basis you know do those things in a thoughtful way um can certainly help you know, bring to our attention what needs to be changed and and possibly how.
00:24:22
Speaker
um Do you think that the organizations are are doing a good job, I guess in general, developing their leaders or providing those training and upskilling opportunities? Like are employers doing enough to prepare tomorrow's leaders um to to meet modern day challenges?
00:24:41
Speaker
um No. can't, right? I mean, I don't. I don't say that because I'm angling for more business necessarily. right um But no, to the extent that ah i i don't I don't think in our current environment, um organizations are are getting a really good handle on what would be what would be the ideal.
00:25:16
Speaker
In other words, um it's it's awfully easy in 2026 to cast stones, to um to be critical.
00:25:29
Speaker
oh It's much more difficult, I think, to get audiences, employees, um and and others to commit to and what would be better that would yield a different result.
00:25:51
Speaker
What would be better such that this leader would have the impact that's necessary for them to be more successful? um So I think some of the corollaries um that are beyond the criticism um need to need to be better articulated.
00:26:11
Speaker
um such that leaders even can have a fighting chance to experiment, to to in fact improve, to try some things.
00:26:22
Speaker
um Yes, for them it is upskilling, but it's also sort of trying some things in order in order to become differently effective.
00:26:37
Speaker
um i I think that many organizations are being led by by great leaders. But they are leading in in a vacuum of right now, I think, in in in many respects. And so they are um throwing dice and throwing spaghetti against a wall and and hoping what they're trying to do will will stick and have have the desired outcome.
00:27:11
Speaker
I really couldn't agree more. For an organization that hasn't prioritized learning for its workforce, how do they start weaving that into the fabric of their business?
00:27:21
Speaker
How would you advise an organization to even go about starting that? here I think um it it would frankly depend on um
00:27:36
Speaker
and du It would depend on, on and I think, any organization bigger than 15 people. The learning needs um could could vary. um Will they vary across all 15? Not necessarily, but there, I think, are are ways to get 15 down to a manageable number of of felt learning and skill development needs.
00:28:06
Speaker
so um and and that And that doesn't take a lot of time and energy. It might be a quick surveying, um but it also may just be, um you know, a knowledge enough on the part of managers on up.
00:28:25
Speaker
um to identifying you know if if there are, in fact, if some quick quick wins for the organization um that would in but both engage employees,
00:28:41
Speaker
ah in in ways that are motivating to them, where they they get the why. They are are doing ah you know this particular training on improved customer service.
00:28:55
Speaker
you know What does that mean in 2026? But um But I think it doing a broader and inclusive um offering that resonates for any and everyone in in an organization is one approach to just, to you such that an organization could um could receive real accolades from the employees to say, they did this for all of us first quarter of 2026.
00:29:31
Speaker
um that's what That is one one way. i I do think um there can be um some some value in offering up um a a platform of learning um ah you know of learning opportunities. And that's in the context, of course, of e-learning and you know other other things that can be served up through
00:30:01
Speaker
having an organization ah get a membership to um all that Harvard Business Review you know has has in their library. um that's That's not a ah poor way to go. i think what's really important is that there are some assignments being given on the part of managers and leaders, to such that there are you know certain articles that that department is reading, whether it's a department of five or 25, but where there's an opportunity then come together and and discuss that particular Harvard Business Review article.
Employee Engagement and Future Workplace Trends
00:30:44
Speaker
And it doesn't matter what your title is, um but that community-oriented learning. like that. And that can be of value on the on the part of a team.
00:30:57
Speaker
I like that. I like that a lot. You know, tomorrow's leaders are... Today's team members, right? And so you talk about, you know, doing that sort of community-based learning without regard for what your title is, is a great way to get those younger entry-level or mid-career employees to start in that um building those habits, right, of learning so that when they become leadership, it's normalized. Yeah.
00:31:26
Speaker
and And those employees, you know, they they make up a large portion of today's workforce, right? Early, entry level, even mid-career. You feel like they're getting what they truly want from their employers, like in general, ah in terms of diversity inclusion, in terms of, you know, benefits and whatever.
00:31:46
Speaker
um How do you see their experience? o I think... um there's There are many ways to kind of slice and dice this, right? When I when i think of 20-somethings and um and their general preference for um learning on the job and and being entrusted with um micro to maybe more macro problem-solving tasks, um that is very motivating.
00:32:23
Speaker
for it's it's it's pragmatic. um And there's an eagerness, and if not an expectation that they roll up their sleeves, and and then take what they've learned from pragmatic problem solving, and they figure out what the learning transfer is going to be.
00:32:44
Speaker
um their Their interest, I think, in in more um you know even the huddles of having a discussion around ah Harvard Business Review article, their appetite for that is is less yeah than it would be for someone who is perhaps in a supervisory to you know um executive role. um So it really depends on on you know sort of with the
00:33:16
Speaker
what stage of professional development i think someone in. someone is in um That's fair. So, yeah, I think that's, that that that's it's it's it's not an easy and not not an easy thing to um to implement this um at this time.
00:33:36
Speaker
What I think you're hitting on, though, is that um we all want to matter. And we all want to be, seen you know, and and and I mean, we want to be seen, what we want to matter. um We want to have, um and know that our contributions make a difference. Make difference and and grow and be, you know, and and know that, you know, you're you're you're going somewhere, you're not just spinning your wheels.
00:34:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. that's That's right. and and And people want to increase their sense of significance. think so. That's a very good way to put that, actually. but I'm going to steal that. I like it.
00:34:20
Speaker
Right. Yeah. I think that that's um ah that's the case. And I think what is threatening to to that right now is um is is that that folks are uncertain about their status.
00:34:36
Speaker
And I don't mean that in a hierarchical sense, but it's sort of more as a state of sure of of being, well-being, connectedness, um belonging.
00:34:51
Speaker
And i think when if if we can ensure people that their their status is secure, um which is not an easy thing to do in 2026. And I and understand that. um but But to be able to to do anything to ensure that people feel like they're connected up in relationships and um that there and then there is a a even a defined set of things that they can be certain of, Yeah. that ah To be able to reinforce that, I think, increases employees' engagement and sense of groundedness and well-being.
00:35:38
Speaker
Mary, just to take a little bit of a left turn, any predictions for the future of work changing, you know, worker classifications, more fractional employees, when we work, where we work, AI and its impact.
00:35:56
Speaker
What, uh, give me, give me some predictions that you have 2026 and beyond. Hmm. Wow. Blue sky this sky, deep ocean.
00:36:11
Speaker
um
00:36:15
Speaker
What I do anticipate is that employees are going to continue to demand from their employers increased flexibility of work arrangements.
00:36:27
Speaker
i and um And I have to think that employers are gonna continue to ah to to honor that and to kind of see the light and related to some of these things um because we all have caregiving responsibilities.
00:36:52
Speaker
Period, full stop. um and ah it it And yeah, leave in our lives, we we just we we are we are also in ah in communities of interdependency outside of work And i think in general, people are going to be asking for more um flexibility, let's say that, and and and maybe more in other respects, um such that their lives and work can be better integrated.
00:37:28
Speaker
yeah um So I think that's that's one of the things. And the the other, i um i think, is going to be around... Neuro inclusion. Tell me about that. Yeah.
00:37:44
Speaker
Tell me expand on that. Tell me a little bit about what that means. Yeah. And no, no question. um Neurodiversity exists right here, right now on this call with you and me.
00:37:57
Speaker
were We're unique um in ah in a neurodiverse way. What's different um or unique is neurodivergence and um and how that manifests in in the workplace um in in all kinds of ways and in ways that um those who... um who who identify as ADHD are going to be more and more willing to um
00:38:34
Speaker
to be forthcoming about but what difference does that make. yeah um And they're going to speak less a language of, and therefore I need accommodations,
00:38:47
Speaker
who oh but rather more um and in and and And therefore, may I request or can you, will you respect the fact that?
00:39:01
Speaker
So I think neuroaffirmation is going to be more of an expectation and I think neuro inclusion. And this is right up to the C-suite. um as As we know, Bill Gates um you know comfortably talks about being neurodivergent.
00:39:20
Speaker
um So I think that that's, I think this is this, you know who who who's coming to work now um and into the future, um individuals who um who who will be asking for um more opportunities to be at tables, um more opportunities to in fact lead and not be um marginalized or stereotyped yeah as as not enough um or ill-equipped, ah you know, on and on. So um so that that's that's the other thing I think, you know, work work Both workplace flexibility and and more in in this neuro-inclusion space is going to be asked of leaders.
00:40:13
Speaker
And it behooved them to to to respond well and to embrace that. yeah Much to leverage there, much to appreciate.
Advice on Self-Deception and Growth
00:40:25
Speaker
I really like that a lot. It's very thoughtful. it It kind of leads me to ah great question ah that I that i'd love to ask everybody, Sir, as we wrap up. you know If an entrepreneur, an executive you know asked you, you had an opportunity for just a few moments right with them and asked you for your single most important piece of advice about what they can do better as a leader when it comes to the people that they work with.
00:40:52
Speaker
um maybe if you just were on an elevator to the top floor and before that door opened and they walked right out of there, what is it that you would tell them? a What I tell them it is
00:41:08
Speaker
it it is to work on um what I believe is is really important, um and and that is decreasing our um our self-deception.
00:41:23
Speaker
I think that... i think And for me, that isn't that is more than more than self-awareness or increasing self-awareness. um Interesting.
00:41:35
Speaker
Because i I think we, ah and and and to address one's self-deception in the context of your closest, most trusted relationships, take risks there um to become better acquainted with with who you are and um not for the purposes again of of diagnostics or um or self-loathing, ah not at all, but but rather um to in to increase potential in in ways that that can that can benefit one individually as as well as in the context of relationships.
00:42:26
Speaker
I love that, Mary. I really do. Thank you. This was great. I really appreciate you joining me today. Thank you for being here. oh what a pleasure. Thank you. it was a joy.
00:42:36
Speaker
enjoyed it. This was fun. And ah a big thanks to ah to all of you for tuning into Mustard Hub Voices Behind the Build. Please like and share this episode. Subscribe so you don't miss the next one. And visit mustardhub.com to learn about help how we help companies become destinations for workplace happiness and turn culture into a competitive edge.
00:42:59
Speaker
Until next time.