Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S2. Ep 17 Building Resilience: Overcoming Business and Personal Challenges with Jeff Redmon
45 Plays9 months ago
This episode of Dial It In explores the concept of resiliency in business and in life. Hosts Dave and Trygve discuss the importance of being tough and not sweating the small stuff, sharing an anecdote about handling complaints. They introduce Jeff Redmon, a business coach and lawyer with over 40 years of experience, known for his resilience and ability to help businesses thrive. Tune in to gain insights on building resiliency for success.
…
Dial It In Podcast is where we gathered our favorite people together to share their advice on how to drive revenue, through storytelling and without the boring sales jargon. Our primary focus is marketing and sales for manufacturing and B2B service businesses, but we’ll cover topics across the entire spectrum of business. This isn’t a deep, naval-gazing show… we like to have lively chats that are fun, and full of useful insights. Brought to you by BizzyWeb.
Links:
Website: dialitinpodcast.com
BizzyWeb site: bizzyweb.com
Connect with Dave Meyer
Connect with Trygve Olsen
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Dial It In' Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Dial It In, a podcast where we talk with interesting people about the process improvements and tricks they use to grow their businesses. I'm Dave Meyer, president of BusyWeb, and every week, Trigg Violson and I are bringing you interviews on how the best in their fields are dialing it in for their organizations.
Martial Arts Anecdote: Conflict Management
00:00:23
Speaker
I had a really interesting conversation with somebody this week, Dave, who owns a martial arts facility.
00:00:32
Speaker
And he was telling me about this kid that was complaining at school about his training to another kid at school. And the two kids in question were in sixth grade. And so he called the complainer kid's mom and said, you know, hey, I don't appreciate this and you shouldn't be doing that. And I said, cool, why? It's sixth graders.
00:00:56
Speaker
They don't like anything. What are you doing? And he said, well, he was complaining about me. I said, well, was any of it true? Well, no. Okay. So you just made a mom mad. Who's going to defend her kid because two sixth graders were complaining on the park, on the, on the, on the playground. He's like, Oh, okay.
Importance of Resiliency with Jeff Redman
00:01:20
Speaker
I think people in this day and age, Dave, I think they've lost something really important, which is what we're going to be talking about today, which is just a simple concept of resiliency. Yes. Sometimes you just got to get a little tougher, not all the time and not in all cases. Sometimes toughness doesn't actually apply or help, but being able to let some stuff go and being able to listen when the time comes right is just an important skill that I don't think a lot of people have anymore.
00:01:49
Speaker
I agree completely and I think our guest today is perfect for this because there's nobody I know that's more resilient and that's gone through quite the ride as our friend Jeff Redman. Hey Jeff, how are you? Good morning. Doing great. Good morning. Let's radio read his bio. We'll radio read it.
00:02:08
Speaker
Jeff Edman is a trusted advisor to hundreds of business owners as a business coach and lawyer. Representing business owners for over 40 years, Jeff has seen many individuals and businesses thrive in the face of extraordinary challenges in their business and life. Unfortunately, too many fall to the pressures despite amazing skills, knowledge, and abilities.
00:02:28
Speaker
Jeff is focused on helping business owners create a life they love. He preaches resiliency to help extraordinary people, not just survive, but thrive in their business and their personal life. I can match you for radio voice for radio voice day, but there's no way that I can do that that good on a normal day. That's perfect. Jeff, it's so good to see you.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah. So one of the big things that we wanted to talk about as Trigby led in was the importance of resiliency in your business and your life. And I think one of my favorite things about you, Jeff, is that
00:03:11
Speaker
You're a guy that has more drive than most 20 year olds and you have absolutely no real reason to do that. And in your bio, I don't think we talked about it over 40 years in business, but you could be on a beach somewhere nonstop, but you're driving and affecting people's lives and change and doing all this stuff. So tell us a little bit about your story.
Jeff Redman's Journey to Success
00:03:35
Speaker
Well, I was about to say I was born a poor black child, but I was born in Iowa, my, you know, blue collar roots. First person, I had 14 cousins older than me. I was the very first one to graduate from high school.
00:03:56
Speaker
And first one, certainly to go to college and announced in seventh grade that I was going to go to law school, be a lawyer. Didn't even know what that meant, but I was driven. And my parents in their circles, their friends were like,
00:04:17
Speaker
No, there's no good lawyers. You have to discourage him. You shouldn't even pay for him to go to school. And my folks were like, hey, whatever he wants to do, he'll be great at it. And I was single-purposed. I wanted to be a lawyer. Came to the Twin Cities. My wife is from Northern Northwest Iowa. We came to the Twin Cities. Basically so.
00:04:41
Speaker
Um, we were five hours away from our parents or parents couldn't show up unannounced. And, uh, um, you know, as a lawyer, a number of different firms partner in a big law firm for 15 years in, um, 2001, I started my own small fancy law firm and really then started, had the flexibility to become a business coach. So I, um, and.
00:05:10
Speaker
business lawyer and I facilitate roundtables of CEOs and business owners. And in 2008, I added strategic thinking execution planning to my repertoire.
Resiliency in Life's Challenges
00:05:28
Speaker
So really work with entrepreneurs actively engaged in their business. Love every day. Spectacular. So as you do that, and as you
00:05:41
Speaker
connect with your clients both on the legal side, but then also on the advisory and strategy side. I know that resiliency is one of the most important things that we come back to. And I'd love for you to set the stage a little bit for us just on what resiliency has been for you over the past couple of years, because you've had one hell of a journey. Yeah. You know, um,
00:06:06
Speaker
And in 40 years I've had clients in my office that had business failures and I really was concerned about suicide and I forced them to make a phone call and get intervention. I've had clients that had personal deaths and things and you know, some just seem to be better prepared than others. I would suggest that
00:06:35
Speaker
None of those things applied to me. I want to interrupt there because that's awfully severe. Do I understand that correctly, Jeff, that you've had people in your office contemplating suicide over business issues? They didn't say that, but that's what I felt, that I'm not sure they're going to make it home. I literally required them to make a phone call from my office to call their spouse.
00:07:04
Speaker
And, you know, this is, I get very personally involved with clients and, you know, and they often tell me things that they aren't telling anybody else. So, but as it related to me, I never held up the mirror. I certainly didn't need this resiliency stuff. I was perfect and everything was wonderful and sure stuff would happen, but it didn't hurt me that,
00:07:32
Speaker
I would need resiliency, but I have, I've had an executive coach for 20 years and he's kind of encouraged me to do a couple of things. I did them because he said I wasn't really a true believer, but I was certainly glad that I did them. And about, I think it was 2017, one of my coaching buddies from Vancouver named Kevin Lawrence.
00:08:01
Speaker
He started sharing the stuff that later became his book, your own, put your, your own oxygen mass first. He worked with really multi-billion dollar CEOs around the world and saw all kinds of depression.
00:08:24
Speaker
mental issues, and he started surveying to see what these CEOs were doing to maintain their health and vitality despite all the stress. And he captured 17 habits that he recorded from these CEOs. And
00:08:51
Speaker
Really, that was the first point that I really saw the compelling need to focus on resiliency and be very purposeful about it so that when challenges happen, you're able to deal with them because you have a resilient base to draw from.
00:09:13
Speaker
So you talked about books and I, this is one of the things that I, as I get older, I, I read more and more sales books. But I think the, I struggle with that because I think sometimes coaches like to have their own patented nine point plan that works for everyone. That if you just do these nine things, then, and as it late as it's laid out in my book, then everything will be fine. But you don't really subscribe to that notion, do you?
00:09:40
Speaker
Well, last year, I've forgotten how to read. I do Audible, so I listen to books. Last year, I read over 200 books. I've already listened to 35 books this year, so I'm on record pace.
00:09:58
Speaker
bring in lots of stuff and process
Daily Practices for Building Resilience
00:10:00
Speaker
it. And Kevin doesn't prescribe these 17. He says, these are 17 things that people have done. Pick two or three of them that fits you and do them with purpose and consistency.
00:10:14
Speaker
So for me personally, the ones I do, it's, I, they're kind of referred to as mind, body, spirit. So I read a half an hour a day. That's kind of keeping my mind active. Actually, you know, read way more than that.
00:10:29
Speaker
I exercise five, six times a week. Now I've been sick this last year, so it's still on my list, but I haven't been doing it. But I know that I haven't because I have a daily discipline to record it. And then the last one is a little unique. I call it maintaining a
00:10:47
Speaker
and empowering context. It's a little bit different than just a positive attitude. It's my short form of saying, I live in a world of abundance. The world is going to provide me with every opportunity I need, if I'm only open to seeing it and grabbing it. So that's maintaining a power in context, maintaining a power, empowering context. And I just don't tell myself to do it.
00:11:17
Speaker
I have a daily discipline of texting and emailing three different people every day. And I check those boxes and report to them every single day. Um, today will be day 1060 that I've done that. So, and I love it. Who are those people? So it's, it's, you have to develop what works for you.
00:11:43
Speaker
Nobody, I don't believe that this is the answer. You need to fit what works for you that you can do forever. Who are those three people? I have Kevin Dom, who started me doing this over five years ago. He's a business book author, one of my good friends, but he knew I was
00:12:13
Speaker
struggling with my weight. And he asked me if I was up for a 30 day challenge. And I said, Kev, I can do anything for 30 days, but I need to do something that lasts the rest of my life.
00:12:26
Speaker
And so the in the 30 days, I'm going to figure out what I can do to make this work forever. But his 30 day challenge was every day, tell me what you eat and whether or not you exercise. That's how it started. Okay. And I did 711 days before.
00:12:46
Speaker
January 2021 when I had a blood infection and ended up in the hospital and kind of out of commission for a couple months. And then I restarted in the spring and that is the 1060. So I have 711 days on top of my 1060 days.
00:13:07
Speaker
It was Kevin. And then I have another business coach and a client and each of those asked me to help them. And I said, you know, I'll only do it if it's mutual. And so we, um, I do the same report and it's expanded over the years. Um, as things become ritualized, I can add other things to the list.
00:13:31
Speaker
So before I go to bed, I finish an iPhone note. I copy it. I text it to two of them and email it to Kevin. The thing that I added this year, last fall we went to Italy and I visited Leonardo da Vinci Museum. And in his to-do list, he had study the tongue of the woodpecker.
00:13:57
Speaker
And so in this to-do list, he had a curiosity question. So I added to, because I'm super curious, I added a curiosity question too. Every day at the bottom, I include a question. And it's really for me, I look it up, but Kevin, my buddy, he's taken upon himself every day to answer the question.
00:14:23
Speaker
So he replies back, Googles it. Now, Leonardo da Vinci didn't have Google. He had to dissect a woodpecker to figure out how it's done. And I would encourage, I'm not going to tell you how it works, but I would encourage the listeners to Google the woodpecker tongue.
Client's Story of Overcoming Challenges
00:14:40
Speaker
You'll be very interested in how it's very unique.
00:14:45
Speaker
Jeff, with all of your experience and all of the different companies that you've worked with, tell us about one that just had just a monster challenge and how they worked it out. Well, I was thinking about that.
00:15:00
Speaker
Almost every single client has some sort of challenge that I've heard about that they've gotten through. But the one that really came to mind, and he's kind of been double blasted, but back in the real estate recession of the 06-08 area.
00:15:19
Speaker
They had real estate with 50% equity, which at the time, most people would have 25%. Well, their land went down, so they were under collateral. The bank loan was more than the value of land.
00:15:37
Speaker
And he didn't know what to do. He's, you know, completely stressed out. And I actually worked with him, but, and talked to him about it, but I wasn't dealing with the stress part of his life at that time. But one of his advisors said, well, what's the worst that happened? Well, I go bankrupt and you know, yeah, but nobody's going to die. They know nobody's going to die. And.
00:16:04
Speaker
He said, well, I don't know what to do. He says, well, we can figure that out. You just quit. And, you know, that will, uh, we'll find out what happens. Well, that's not quitting is not an option. I said, well, then every single day you have to hunker down and do what you can do this very day. Now they made it through all of that and they use,
00:16:32
Speaker
profits from another business to make the payments to the bank. The banks did a workout and this is, I mean, this was a 10, $15 million loan. So this is a big loan and they made it through.
00:16:48
Speaker
But that was the resiliency that he made him get through that. Now, fast forward 10, 15 years. He has diagnosed with multiple myeloma, which is a blood disease. Tom Brokaw had it. Basically, they say it's uncurable. And he considered his situation with the real estate
00:17:16
Speaker
is the time that prepared him for the storm, because now he's actually cancer-free. They can't detect any of the multiple myeloma, but that resiliency that he built years before served him during that time when he was going through horrible treatments at the Mayo Clinic.
00:17:43
Speaker
Well, and you're a living example of resiliency in the face of adversity, and you've had a couple of bumps. And I know that despite your health challenges and the things that you're welcome to share if you want, but we were talking, I was like, yeah, I'm getting done with one of my treatments. And then I've got to get on the plan to go scuba diving again.
00:18:07
Speaker
Tell us a little bit about what you've gone through like just personally challenges and what was especially pointed to me is you need something to look forward to. Tell us a little bit about that. Well, go back to 2000.
00:18:25
Speaker
I'm in peak physical condition. I have a cycling coach. He gives me workouts every single day. I do them. I rode my bike 3000 miles. I'm in great shape. The fall comes. I moved transitioning to indoors and where I'd gone like 18 months without missing a workout.
Personal Health Challenges and Resilience
00:18:46
Speaker
I just like.
00:18:49
Speaker
couple of days, I just wouldn't do it. And I'm thinking, well, it's just the fall. Well, that keeps getting worse and worse. And come January 13th, 2021, I'm preparing to do one of my business owner peer groups. We do it by zoom of this COVID time. And I tell my wife, you know, I'm really tired, but I think, uh,
00:19:15
Speaker
I can make it, then I'll just go to bed. 15 minutes later, I call her and say, hey, hon, I think you got to take me to the hospital. So I go to the hospital. They're treating it like COVID. I go to urgent care. They immediately send me to the emergency room. They put me in the hospital. I'm in the new Richmond hospital for five days when they transfer me to regions. I'm in literally in the hospital 28 days.
00:19:43
Speaker
The five days in Westfield hospital, I have no recollection. I remember one day, no recollection, but so I had a blood infection and it took out my heart, heart valve, artificial heart valve. And I was one sick boy. This is another resiliency tool. It's called the Stockdale paradox.
00:20:08
Speaker
James Stockdale was the highest ranking person that was a resident of Hanoi Hilton, POW. Are you talking about the vice presidential candidate?
00:20:19
Speaker
What's that? The vice presidential candidate. Yeah. Okay. He was pro vice presidential vice presidential candidate. He was a medal of honor recipient, but he was in Hanoi Hilton for eight and a half years. And Jim Collins that most people will be familiar with of good to great interviewed him to figure out how in the world did you get through eight and a half years? And he had three principles.
00:20:48
Speaker
And I applied those every single day in the hospital. One is you got to accept the brutal truths. They are what they are. There's nothing you can do about them. So you accept the brutal facts. Second is an unwavering faith that no matter what you're going to do, whatever it takes to get through this. And then the third one, which frankly, I didn't think about when I was in the hospital.
00:21:17
Speaker
But the third one is when you get through it, you're going to be a better person may not know how, but you're going to be a better person. So while I'm in the hospital 28 days, I don't have the energy to read a text. I would call my wife and say, you know, Dave Meyer sent me a text. I don't know what he said, but reach out and see what, what he wants. Um,
00:21:43
Speaker
But every single day, hundreds of times a day, I would say whatever it takes. And they would say, hey, we're gonna do this procedure. It's gonna hurt. If I can do it, whatever it takes. And that got me through it. I was 28 days, ended up with replacing my artificial heart valve, put in a pacemaker. My kidneys stopped. I went on to dialysis.
00:22:11
Speaker
full recovery, you know, I'm just fine. But there was times when didn't know if I was going to make it, um, that when they put my pacemaker in, my heart stopped for 15, 14 seconds. And my daughter, who's a doctor, she says, dad, they call that flight line. But, uh, you know, I didn't think of it that way.
00:22:36
Speaker
The third part that I didn't think about where I came out of, and I've talked at the hospital many times as a grateful patient, I accused the nursing staff of every day enlarging my gratitude gland. Just an attitude of gratitude, like I've never had before. And that was how I came out a better person. But that was, you know, a
00:23:05
Speaker
resiliency challenge that I didn't expect. I really, I never ever think I was going to die. I came out positive, I attacked my cardiac rehab, then move forward to 2023. I have melanoma removed in 2021. And that recurs. So this past year, I now have
00:23:34
Speaker
melanoma floating around my body. It's metastasized in my lung and on my liver, and I start treatment. And as Dave said, I think as a way to deny
00:23:50
Speaker
Cancer was going to slow me down. My wife and I took 17 trips in 2023 and like good trips, including a scuba trip is Italy. I mean, that was wonderful. Um, we went to Utah, the parks there, but it, that resiliency, I think in 2023,
00:24:17
Speaker
I was talking to the guy that had the real estate and multiple myeloma who were sharing stories. And I said, you know, I think in 2023, I maybe had five days, not in a row where I just said, why be kind of that victim mentality?
00:24:36
Speaker
And he says, you know, you're kind of entitled in 365 days to have five days where you can feel sorry for yourself. But that's the day I felt like a gift. I am amazingly blessed. The resiliency for me has caused me to have I describe it. My glass is not half full, half empty. It is overflowing. So when bad things happen, they might
00:25:02
Speaker
cup is still overflowing, I just feel amazingly blessed. But that's a resiliency muscle that I've been very purposeful to build and nurture. Reminds me of the old joke that the pessimist says the glass is half empty, the optimist says the glass is half full, and the engineer says the glass is twice as big as it needs to be. Well, and unfortunately, I know people that
00:25:32
Speaker
Their glass is bone dry. They just don't see the joy of living and being blessed. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back. We're going to talk about good stress and bad stress when we come back. All right.
00:25:48
Speaker
Today's episode of Dial It In is brought to you by BusyWeb, your partner in driving growth for business service and manufacturing businesses online. Are you a business service or manufacturing business eager to expand your online presence, generate leads, and boost revenue? BusyWeb has what you need. At BusyWeb we specialize in helping businesses like yours with CRM, marketing, advertising, and website solutions.
00:26:13
Speaker
As experts in HubSpot, Google, social media and email, we offer full-service digital marketing tailored to your unique needs. Our mission is to drive leads to your business and empower you to convert those leads effectively through smart follow-up strategies.
00:26:29
Speaker
visit our website at busyweb.com. That's B-I-Z-Z-Y-W-E-B dot com. Or, give us a call at 612-424-9990 to start a conversation. As a special offer for our dialed in listeners, we're offering a free download of our newest eBook.
00:26:49
Speaker
everything you ever wanted to know about HubSpot. With this free download, we'll share with you how to grow your business with an all-in-one sales, marketing, website, customer service, and CRM powerhouse. Explore the power of HubSpot to decide if it's right for your growth plans. This offers exclusively for Dial It In listeners. Don't miss out. Visit busyweb.com slash pod for more.
00:27:15
Speaker
We're back with Jeff having an emotional conversation with three dudes. Not that this is weird at all. Talking about our feelings. Jeff, what's good stress and bad stress? Positive and negative stress. Yeah. So we think of stress as somebody dying, losing your job, getting in the car wreck.
00:27:35
Speaker
That's all the people think about as stress. But the American Institute of Stress has a stress assessment. I think there's 42 things and each one has a numeric value. And about half of those are positive things.
00:27:53
Speaker
marriage, for instance. Well, some of us think that that's a wonderful thing, not so positive for others, but marriage is on there. The birth of a child is on there. Getting a promotion is on there, because sometimes
00:28:10
Speaker
high achieving individuals are living on the edge. Their one thing can throw them off and that may be a positive or a negative. It may be that one more customer that they've been trying to get and they get and they realize, oh my God, what has happened? And it causes them to break the bubble.
00:28:33
Speaker
So, you know, it can be a good thing or a bad thing. And we just have to bear in mind a conversation with a client this last week. And they are seeing a therapist, which frankly, I think everybody should see a therapist. I've done that.
00:28:54
Speaker
His therapist has suggested that there was a few things in his life that he hadn't really processed. Well, those things were positive things that he didn't understand the stress implication of that. It's the time commitment, you know, in my world.
00:29:16
Speaker
I talk about helping my clients create a life they love. Well, when they're at work, they're stressed that they have missed family obligations. When they're at home, they're worried about what isn't getting done at work. So that's the stress.
00:29:34
Speaker
And, um, you know, just pausing and taking time to enjoy life. My clients often don't do that. No, it's been years since they've taken a vacation. And when they do, they check their email and phones 24 seven. So they're not really giving themselves a break. So that's, I think just the appreciation that stress is not always just negative things that we have wonderful things that happen in life.
Managing Stress and Building Resiliency Muscles
00:30:04
Speaker
but they add complication to our life. They take time, takes time away from other things. So that's where managing the stress and building a resiliency muscle, I think is absolutely critical.
00:30:19
Speaker
And I think it's important to say that, especially in the part of the country where we live, where everybody doesn't like talking about themselves and certainly doesn't like talking about their feelings, is it's rarely the positive and negative stress is rarely one thing. I mean, obviously I have a blood infection and I'm in the hospital for a month. That's kind of a big thing. But for most people, it's not one thing, it's 12.
00:30:46
Speaker
And if you, a buddy says, well, what's going on? And you try and explain it, you kind of feel sheepish because there are all these little things or some of these are good things. They're just taking time and, but it just, it's driving you bananas.
00:31:02
Speaker
Like I had that this past summer where I was fighting with my insurance company in addition to doing my stressful job, in addition to doing everything else. And at the end of the day, I just had to keep reminding myself, well, I'm getting all new siding and the insurance company is covering it. So the juice is kind of worth the squeeze. Well, and what happens, it's kind of like,
00:31:26
Speaker
You put the frog in a pot of water and then you crank up the heat and they don't, they'll never jump out. We put them in hot water, they jump out, but the pressure builds and you add life just gets more and more and more. It's ready to burst, but you don't even realize this is just normal for me. And, um, you know, I, I've taken one three week vacation in my life.
00:31:56
Speaker
And it took about a week to unwind. Then you have a week where like, this is wonderful. And then you have a week of worrying that you're going to have to go back to work. So I mean, you just, um, our lives get complicated and they build and build and you add one more thing and you don't, and then you lash out at your spouse because you're comfortable lashing out at them, but it has nothing to do with them.
00:32:24
Speaker
It's this buildup of pressure that you describe. It just gets accumulation. And sometimes, well, we talk about work-life balance. What Kevin Lawrence suggests is you got to insert self in there. You have to have, he suggests
00:32:46
Speaker
10 to 20% of your time should be on taking care of yourself. And that's where these resiliency rituals come in. It's vacations away from everything. You know, sure, it may be time with your spouse. That's critical to that. But sometimes it's time with yourself. And for me,
00:33:11
Speaker
I get energy from being around people. So other people get energy from being by themselves. So that's why there's not one model that fits everybody. What is it that help that gives you energy? And, you know, and I, I'm 66 people ask, you know, like, are you retired? And I said, well, I have a different definition of retired. I don't do anything I don't want to do.
00:33:41
Speaker
into which my wife would suggest, well, you must have been retired for a long time because you don't do a damn thing. But I characterize it as what gives me energy and what sucks energy. I just do very few things in my life that suck energy. I don't have clients that suck energy. I delegate things that draw energy in my work. And I, you know,
00:34:10
Speaker
and coaching, I have buddies that say, hey, when are you going to decide what you're going to focus on? For me, I could do more law. I could do more coaching. But one, I do it enough that it gives me energy and I don't get to the point where it drains. And then when I switched to something else, that gives me energy. And so it's important to have a balance and to be able to do things and different things recharge you in different ways. Yeah, exactly.
00:34:38
Speaker
And we once had a, I'm on a school board, 27 years, we had a high school principal who wanted to be the basketball coach. And one of the guys said, you know, on the board said, you know, if you have enough time to be a coach, you should be spending more time being a principal. And he said, you know, I give my heart and soul to being a principal. Coaching would be a diversion that actually in another way would give me energy to make me a
Balancing Life for a Resilient Mindset
00:35:05
Speaker
better principal. I thought that was a beautiful answer.
00:35:07
Speaker
We didn't let it be a coach, but it was the right attitude that sometimes doing something completely different is what gives you energy. And so that's, I think it's about, that's what resiliency is about. Finding that balance that you can handle life's challenges in my world. I,
00:35:34
Speaker
I have an app that literally measures my muscle and I started to zero down my muscles like 1500. And I described that life's little challenges don't even get close to the line for me. Now you have cancer. That one kind of goes above the line and I got to work to know that's a challenge. But as you work on this resiliency rituals, you will get stronger and stronger at building your resiliency muscle.
00:36:03
Speaker
So that you will find that the little things that used to bother you just don't bother you and you don't fret about it. And now you're still going to have the big challenges that are going to stress you out and that's okay. Let's talk about it. And, you know, we can talk about what to do if you're in crisis, but, um, you really need to be persistent on building that resiliency muscle.
00:36:31
Speaker
Let's talk about that a little bit because as a business coach, as a lawyer, and in personal life, I know that you've dealt with a lot of executives and people that are, pardon the phrase, dialing it in for their business and their lives. So as they come up to those big challenges,
00:36:50
Speaker
What are the first questions that you ask them to maybe nudge those folks in the right direction toward either assessing or fixing or asking for the right help in their business or their personal lives? Well, kind of two things. One is I talk about resiliency in almost every business owner meeting I have. What are you doing to stay fit? What are you doing to keep your mind sharp?
00:37:16
Speaker
One of the conversations I had with Kevin Lawrence as he was introducing his book, and I'll say the thing that I kind of added to the business world was
00:37:29
Speaker
You know, we have business in our leadership teams. We have metrics, sales metrics, operational metrics. I said, why don't we have personal metrics? Every one of our leadership teams should have their resiliency rituals and at every team meeting they need to broadcast red, yellow, green. You're doing it. You're not, I don't care what they are. You're either doing it or you aren't doing it. So,
00:37:56
Speaker
I had a depression stage in 1918 or 2018. And when I recovered, I realized I had not read a book for five months. And I listened to my audible for five months. Well, your resiliency rituals become your canary in the coal mine. So now in our leadership team meeting, you know, I haven't been to the gym for two weeks.
00:38:22
Speaker
It isn't like, oh, terrible you. It's like, like any other business metric, what can we do to help you? Do I need to go to the gym with you? What can we do? And so the conversation for me starts at the beginning. I'm just talking about this. I probably, people feel it's a broken record because they don't always listen. But I've had situations which I've mentioned before where literally in the room,
00:38:51
Speaker
I have, I need to call my therapist. I haven't talked to him for months or years. Here's the phone, dial them right now. Because they, when you're in a depression, you can't even find the number to call your therapist. Right. In 2018. I mean, I just
00:39:14
Speaker
Everything was dark for me. When I closed my eyes, it felt like the black swirlies I was going down the toilet. I didn't want to sleep, I didn't want to close my eyes. As I came out of it, I would tell people, I can wear my rose-colored glasses for a few minutes, but I can't wear them all day and I'd build and build. What I found out in the end is the light was always there, I just couldn't see it.
00:39:42
Speaker
So I think, you know, starting way before they have an issue, but in 2022, 2023, in my peer groups, you know, I have
00:39:59
Speaker
15 people in my peer groups. I had two individuals. One ended up in the hospital and one ended up like having to get out of everything. They had to, they dropped everything that they were doing. Their daughter was managing their schedule because they just weren't healthy. And so it's real for people. And if you're in that situation,
00:40:26
Speaker
call 911. I mean, they will intervene. There's all kinds of hotlines you can call. There's a it's called the mental health continuum. And it'll give you the continuum of healthy. And it moves across and the last one is ill. And you need immediate inner interaction. And as I've walked through this mental health continuum with clients over the years, I would say most entrepreneurs
00:40:55
Speaker
are more in the just short of being ill but they're on the edge because they're so I mean they're high achieving people they are pushing the envelope to succeed and you know hopefully thrive and these resiliency rituals are the thing that can help them maintain not that stuff doesn't still happen that's going to
00:41:18
Speaker
I read an interesting essay by Penn Gillette, the magician, about this. His entire concept, I think, is true, that the notion of manliness, Hollywood has completely wrong.
00:41:35
Speaker
manly net because in every action movie, the hero gets shot, but he keeps going from another 25 minutes even though he's bleeding from the stomach. He says, it's just a flesh wound and he keeps going. There's generations of men who've been grown up and conditioned to think that you can do what Sylvester Stallone did. If you get shot, great, run gunpowder through the wound and then cauterize it yourself.
00:42:01
Speaker
And then you be fine and it's just simply not true and real bravery is facing the things you don't want to face real bravery is talking about your feelings. Depression is not something that you can talk your way out of it's an actual physical thing.
00:42:21
Speaker
that requires medication and it requires intervention to deal with. And professional help, yeah. And Penn's sort of conclusion is, you know, real bravery is sitting in that room wearing that paper gown and having that kid half your age tell you what's wrong with you. Yeah. Well, that's why, as I was talking to Kevin and a couple other coaches that
00:42:48
Speaker
deal with big companies with high-powered leadership teams, C-suite. And having that resiliency ritual metric allows a conversation about mental health before it's a crisis.
Implementing Resilience Metrics in Business
00:43:06
Speaker
you just say it's yellow, I haven't been to the gym for a while, or I haven't been doing this. You're honest, just as you are with all your business metrics, it's just part of the weekly monthly conversation. And so when that canary in the coal mine is flickering, we can deal with it before it becomes a crisis. And I think it's a way that
00:43:31
Speaker
egotistical people can talk about mental health without saying, you know, I'm really feeling blue today. It's like, no, there's something going on. And, you know, in that conversation, you say, well, Bob, you just got that big contract. I have to believe you're stressed. How can we help you?
00:43:50
Speaker
Right. It allows that conversation because it's not okay. I mean, people feel it's not okay to say, and so that's why I have this conversation because I want people to feel comfortable. You know, lots of people look up to me and see me as a trusted advisor and to say, you know, I'm human. I've had these same struggles myself and I've been to therapists and talk to them and that has helped. And.
00:44:20
Speaker
where nobody ever wants to talk about it. And I think it's, it's just something, and I appreciate you guys having this podcast on resiliency because it should be like a broken arm. It's a medical thing that we should get help for. And you wouldn't not talk about the cast on your arm. You know, people are going to ask about it when they don't see the mental health depression. And so it's harder to talk about.
00:44:50
Speaker
for the business leaders that you work with all the time as well. I think it's doubly dangerous because not only is the pressure somewhat more severe, certainly on the business side of their lives, but I don't speaking personally, there's always pressure to show
00:45:10
Speaker
the world no weakness because you're leading an organization. You need to exude confidence and you just kind of grunt through it and do what you have to. So you have to work real hard with the people that I'm sure you're working with and that you counsel.
00:45:28
Speaker
to understand that it's okay and you don't have to present this impenetrable fortress to the world and that sometimes it can be even more helpful if you allow yourself to be vulnerable and at least to look at and say, yeah, I'm yellow right now or things are tending toward red and so I really need some help because we're all in this together.
00:45:52
Speaker
Well, that's why I'm such a huge fan of peer groups. You know, as the business leader, coaching my team, whether they're executive team or operational team, I can't show any weakness. But in a peer group with other business owners, I can be myself. And so I'm a huge fan of peer groups. I mentioned my accountability partners.
00:46:19
Speaker
We don't really reply. I mean, each one have their own list of things. We don't necessarily reply unless we see something that, hey, that isn't right. And usually you notice it yourself because you've marked it down. But I, firm believer in peer groups as that place where you can be open and honest about what's going on and having accountability partners.
00:46:47
Speaker
that somebody, here are my rituals, having that, if you just do it yourself, you're going to miss a day and then you're going to miss a week. But if you have an accountability partner that the two of you are holding each other accountable, Marshall Goldsmith has, I mean, he's had to have the same accountability partner for 20 some years. And I think in his case, they actually, they actually have a conversation every
00:47:15
Speaker
Now mine is a text and as I mentioned, it's evolved. So I added gratitude is on my list. I want to have an affirmative expression of gratitude every day, something more than just, I'm appreciate being on this podcast, but telling a waitress that I really appreciate how she was attentive to me or the receptionist at the doctor's office. These are people that never get appreciated.
00:47:45
Speaker
So that's my one of the things on my list is gratitude, understanding that it is physically, mentally, psychologically impossible to be grateful and pissy at the same time. I think that's a perfect place to pause and to
00:48:08
Speaker
let everyone know where they can find you because Jeff, you've got a massive amount of talent and empathy for people and I'd love for you to share where people can find you online and connect.
00:48:20
Speaker
Yes. So redmanlaw.com is my law website. All my contact information is there on the coaching side. We are called Breakthrough Impact Group and the website is minbig.com and just love working with business owners.
00:48:41
Speaker
And really, my why, the Simon Sinek why, is helping people create lives they love. And sometimes it's not more money, it's going on vacation. I mean, a success in my world is I went to the vacation for the first time and I didn't check email once. That was a huge business success for one of my clients. And it's not always just about
00:49:09
Speaker
That's awesome. Well, thanks for the time, Jeff. This has been amazing.