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S3 Ep32: PR Strategies for B2B Success with Rob Felber
7 Plays6 hours ago
In this episode of Dial It In, Trygve starts on a somber note, mentioning Nicole's sudden hospitalization and reminding the audience about the importance of taking care of oneself. The episode features a discussion with Rob Felber, President of Felber PR and Marketing, who specializes in helping B2B manufacturers with their public relations and marketing strategies. Rob and the host discuss the nuances of PR, marketing, and advertising, specifically for industrial manufacturers. Rob emphasizes the significance of long-term consistency in PR efforts, the importance of building relationships with media, and the strategic approach needed for successful trade shows. They also cover the common mistakes companies make in managing PR and marketing, and how to effectively measure PR success in the digital age. Additionally, they address the outdated notion that print media is dead, explaining its relevance and integration with digital strategies. The episode stresses that PR is vital for building industry credibility and generating leads, and that substantial planning and consistency are essential for successful PR campaigns.
Connect with Rob
LinkedIn
Felberpr.com
…
Dial It In Podcast is where we gather our favorite people together to share their advice on how to drive revenue, through storytelling and without the boring sales jargon. Our primary focus is marketing and sales for manufacturing and B2B service businesses, but we’ll cover topics across the entire spectrum of business. This isn’t a deep, naval-gazing show… we like to have lively chats that are fun, and full of useful insights. Brought to you by BizzyWeb.
Links:
Website: dialitinpodcast.com
BizzyWeb site: bizzyweb.com
Connect with Dave Meyer
Connect with Trygve Olsen
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Transcript
Introduction to Dial It In Podcast
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome to Dial It In, a podcast where we talk with fascinating people about marketing, sales, process improvements, and tricks that they use to grow their businesses. Join me, Dave Meyer, and Trigby Olson of BusyWeb as we bring you interviews on how the best in their fields are dialing it in their organizations.
00:00:26
Speaker
Let's ring up another episode.
Somber Update on Nicole's Health
00:00:30
Speaker
Here I am by my lonesome now. Last week, Dave wasn't here and now Dave and Nicole aren't here. So Andy's puttering around in the background. i don't know. He's doing this something or other, but I wanted to start the show on a somber note. and The reason Nicole's not here is she got rushed to the hospital with a medical issue and she's currently in testing. And normally when we start these episodes, I try and be a little funny just to to draw you in, but Um, she's a, we love her dearly. She's an important person in our lives.
Essay Reflection: Real Toughness
00:01:00
Speaker
And so i wanted to take a moment and also a couple of years ago, i read a essay by the magician Penn Jillette, who said that the notion of toughness, Hollywood really has it wrong.
00:01:14
Speaker
The notion of toughness isn't bearing down and living through what you are suffering from. and And like the Hollywood cliche of the cowboy who gets shot but still saves the day even though, and he says, oh, it's just a flesh wound.
00:01:30
Speaker
It's not really the case. The real toughness is sitting in a small room, wearing a paper gown, having somebody half your age talk to you about what may or may not be wrong with you. That's what real toughness is. and And Nicole fortunately got good care. She's being taken care of right now and we're hoping for the best for her. But it's a good reminder that if you're hurting in one way or another, the time to do what you need to do and then, and realize that doesn't make you weak. That taking care of yourself really is doing what a tough guy really should.
00:02:02
Speaker
We do have a wonderful guest today. One of my great old friends, both literally and
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Guest Introduction: Rob Felber on PR & Marketing
00:02:58
Speaker
Our guest today is ah dear old friend who I met, I think, seven or eight years ago. Rob Felber, he is the president of Felber PR and marketing, a firm specializing in helping B2B manufacturers amplify their messaging, generate leads, and build lasting industry credibility.
00:03:16
Speaker
With decades of experience in public relations, marketing strategy, and content development, Rob has worked closely with companies to craft compelling narratives that drive engagement and business growth.
00:03:28
Speaker
Known for his strategic approach and baller mustache, rob helps brands navigate modern pr challenges leverage digital tools and create measurable marketing success welcome to the show rob Thanks, Trevor. Happy to be here. I knew the mustache wasn't going escape notice. but When you have an epic stache game like you do, how long did that take you to grow?
00:03:51
Speaker
ah And when did it grow? And what album of the nitty gritty dirt band were you listening to? So it was in the fraternity house. Everybody's, let's grow mustaches. So this was probably 83, 84. I think I'm still the only one that has the original. Never shaved it off.
00:04:09
Speaker
so it's So it's been around a long time. I want to be a mustache guy, but the problem with my whole like neck up presentation is that my facial hair and my side hair, they're going gray and I don't, you ever got your, you have gray hair and you look great.
00:04:28
Speaker
My problem with my gray hair that makes me feel self-conscious is if I grow my beard out, I end up looking like I have a Hitler mustache. So the part right under my nose is still dark, but then the other parts are gray. So I look like an idiot or look, I look like Zeke, the grizzled
PR vs Marketing: Insights by Rob Felber
00:04:45
Speaker
prospector. And then i really like having my hair cut short.
00:04:49
Speaker
So when I have my hair cut short, i have like streaks along the side of my head. So I look, I feel like I look like Polly walnuts from the Sopranos. So I'm hoping to age a little more gracefully, but welcome. I'm welcome. I'm so happy to have you here.
00:05:03
Speaker
Thank you. What have you been up to? what's life What's new for you? Oh, what's new for me? I was reminiscing with my friend Paul Revere, talking about his ride, and he was asking me about the weather. um Because as we're recording, this is April eighteenth yeah I have not been around that long.
00:05:21
Speaker
um But I was excited when I got the recording date because I get to commemorate my 60th birthday with you. 60 years today. It's been long years and we've only just even started recording.
00:05:35
Speaker
yeah but It'll feel like more afterwards. So you've got you're based out of Cleveland, but you have a fairly well-known national presence, but you start with, and you lead now with marketing, which is what I do. You lead more with PR.
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah. Our roots are on the PR side. When we were a young business, some 32 years ago, a lot of business try to be everything, everybody. And whether it be working with nonprofits or service companies and so forth.
00:06:06
Speaker
And by happenstance, we fell in this a manufacturing work and we're like, oh, like this. So our single focus is on manufacturers in the B2B sector. If they are making something for the Walmart shelf, that's not our clients. Our clients are not necessarily household names. They're making products that are going inside.
00:06:25
Speaker
OEM machinery, whether it be a part for an engine or a rubber gasket that's going into water meters, it's all these B2B parts and sales.
00:06:37
Speaker
Let me start with a a simple question.
Understanding PR, Marketing, and Advertising
00:06:39
Speaker
I know what PR is, but for Andy, who's puttering around somewhere, what's what is the difference between PR, marketing and advertising to you?
00:06:49
Speaker
I would first of all, a couple definitions and people think PR um and they immediately think White House backdrop crisis. And there is a place for crisis PR. That's not necessarily what we do. um There's traditional PR and then what we specialize in on the industrial side. And this is working with the trade publications to get our clients the name recognition they deserve. um Well, media works a little differently. They're not on the daily deadline of ah a TV or a news show. They're oftentimes monthlies and they're looking for much more and intensive articles to really educate the reader. it's a longer It's a longer sales cycle, different from other tactics that you might have in marketing.
00:07:37
Speaker
I can tie back to trade shows a little bit later here, but That would be, i think the number one misconception and difference. And people here PR, they think crisis um and spinning, and that's not what we're doing.
00:07:51
Speaker
As we're recording this, you mentioned the date that we're recording this there, there is a crisis in manufacturing on the whole with respect to the tariff game and what that's going to do to supply chains and what's that going to do to manufacturing on the whole.
00:08:07
Speaker
And I know that the idea behind the tariffs is, oh, everything's going to come back to the United States and things are going to start being manufactured here. but ah How is that affecting your customers ability to communicate stability?
00:08:23
Speaker
I think everybody's at this point, a little bit of wait and see. I've talked to clients and one gave me a good example the other day of how pricing might be affected. They buy their steel domestically.
00:08:35
Speaker
um And they said if the tariffs go on and the steel prices from international goes up, invariably the domestic is going to grow up because it's the old supply and demand. So if a number was in 140 internationally and 110,
00:08:50
Speaker
ah locally, it's going to go up and that's going to be passed along. um But most of our clients are just really waiting and seeing. I've had one or two that have put out a little bit of social media or maybe ah a blog post, you talking about stability and Buy American. But at this point, I don't know if anybody's quite figured out what the impact is going to be.
00:09:14
Speaker
It's such an interesting concept. You mentioned the idea of buy American it and obviously that's a great thing. If you can buy American, that's great. But that doesn't mean that you're buying an exclusive necessarily means that you're buying an exclusively American product. It means that all of the things that go into making the product are sourced from all so all across the world.
00:09:34
Speaker
to in order to get you to be able to buy American, but if those people can't find stuff to make the product, that's equally detrimental. so I think historically it's the supply chains that...
00:09:48
Speaker
that really need to be discussed because between COVID and if you remember the Suros Canal um impacting supply chains, a lot of manufacturers started looking at redundant and alternative supply chains. So I think that's gonna have a a muting effect to tariffs because they've already been looking at their supply chains and multiple suppliers for a couple years now.
00:10:12
Speaker
Yeah. I had a Canadian friend who was in Dallas this week and she said, Hey, I'm not, I don't normally come the States. Do you know anything in Dallas that I should see? And I said, Oh, you should go see the book depository in museum. That's cool. And if you can toot tour the Cowboys field, you should do that because it's amazing.
00:10:30
Speaker
Cause there's all sorts of different things that the the Cowboys do differently compared with everybody else in the NFL. And so to her, And it's a smaller field than you're used to. It's not a 110-yard field because in Canadian football, it's they have a 55-yard line.
00:10:45
Speaker
And she snarkily responded back, because oh, is it smaller because of tariffs? but but And I said, shut up and get back on the plane. But
PR as a Lead Generator and Storytelling
00:10:56
Speaker
cool. So when, ah when does a company want to hire you as opposed to, to work on PR activities, as opposed to hiring, uh, like a lead generator?
00:11:08
Speaker
I think PR is a lead generator. It's a little, what we call, it's a longer cycle. And I'll explain that maybe per your example, lead generation, there's a lot of things that you can do to get quick wins. And we're both HubSpot partner companies, and there's a lot of things that that we do even in the initial onboarding stage.
00:11:28
Speaker
But PR is such that you do it more regularly. And you need to do it over time to to see the results. and And one of the best examples I give in terms of explaining a long cycle is how to even get that recognition. And that recognition is often often a top of funnel play.
00:11:46
Speaker
Right now, it's we're talking one-to-one here. Hold on. I'm going to, I want to interrupt your narrative here. Cause I think this is really important that I think people have a, don't appreciate in, in a digital fast moving age.
00:12:00
Speaker
How long does it really take to, for a brand to really get permeated in the market? Oh, I mean, again, it depends on market size and such, but I'm talking decades.
00:12:13
Speaker
You know, people think, people often think I'm going to take one ad or place one article, going to cut it. You know it takes consistency and a specific brand message that's driven through not only the PR, but the marketing that you mentioned, the lead generation.
00:12:29
Speaker
And again, as PR oftentimes is top of funnel play to drive prospects and repeat customers back to maybe website or such, a long cycle to that.
00:12:43
Speaker
So let's talk about the cycle because I think this is really important because I think there's so many so people who specialize in doing one or two of those things and companies and Pica company say, okay, I'm going to hire you and then everything's going to be better.
00:12:58
Speaker
But then much like the supply chain, it relies on a whole lot of inner co-mingling of parts. Absolutely. And, and, and, What ultimately what everybody's looking for is a sale, correct? That's what everyone wants. But I try to explain our clients, let's work backwards from that.
00:13:13
Speaker
To get a sale, they, to understand what you do and they have to be aware of the company. If we're talking about PR and industrial media, well, to be aware of your company,
00:13:26
Speaker
um You've got to get on the radar of the editors and reporters that are in the right publications. And as a tangent, the right publications, we can come back to here, but publications where the readership matches your ideal customer profile or your persona.
00:13:41
Speaker
Once you have that match, then how do we even establish relationship? And I like trade shows for this. example, because trade shows, you have a lot of reporters and editors out there. They're looking for stories.
00:13:53
Speaker
They're not sitting at a booth. They're going out to the other booths and they're looking for content stories. Case studies in particular are our goal, but to get that, you have to have that relationship. So oftentimes our focus is around getting appointments at a trade show.
00:14:10
Speaker
And actually booking, not asking the media, hey, stop by our booth if you get a chance, but actually booking appointments. I've got examples where we booked 10 appointments brooke and they got nine articles in nine different publications. And if each publication has 20, 30,000 circulations, that's a lot of top of funnel eyeballs.
00:14:30
Speaker
Now, the long cycle comes in where you meet this editor and they say, wow, this is really interesting topic. It's April, as we mentioned right now. That would be perfect for our November issue because we're covering that topic then.
00:14:44
Speaker
And by the time that all happens and he gets out and it's published November, even if it's digital as well as print, that's a long time away. And that's what I mean by the long cycle of the PR and that's just one story.
00:14:57
Speaker
So two the cycle could be long. I always joke that we can do everything right, but we don't control the people that buy ink by the barrel. It's an old way of saying it, but editors and reporters ultimately have the final say.
00:15:09
Speaker
So you can do everything right, but they still are the ones holding all the cards when it comes to publishing the story.
Trade Show Marketing Success Strategies
00:15:17
Speaker
You mentioned trade show marketing and I think we started talking about PR, but you do more than just that for your clients. And so what, how do you make a successful, how do you make a successful trade show from a sales standpoint?
00:15:29
Speaker
The 50,000 pub view is pre-show, journey, show, post-show. And there's some ebooks on our website about this where you can really dive into it. But, you know, pre-show. quick cheap plug for your website. What is your website again? Felberpr.com. So F as in Frank, E-L-B-E-R, P as in Paul, R as in Robert.com. And thank you for that that's a shameless plug.
00:15:52
Speaker
With regard to, the where were we? We were talking talk about trade shows. um And you took me off, Wes. All right, so here. Yeah, yeah give me give me back on topic.
00:16:03
Speaker
I'll tell you what my feeling on trade shows is. I think trade shows have a time and a place. And so one of the things we discovered with a trade show is that there are any number of companies that provide services to an industry that you never even considered.
00:16:19
Speaker
So I'll give you an example. there is a we are recently Andy and I recently finishing up work for a company that makes cheese. and they're they sell cheese, so we're building on an e-commerce site. It's gonna launch this weekend. It's gonna be awesome. We're really excited about it. It looks amazing.
00:16:36
Speaker
And they let us know that there is a conference and it's, of course, it's in Wisconsin because where else would you go? Where else you called CheeseCon. And Andy and I both were like, hell yeah, we're going to CheeseCon, baby.
00:16:50
Speaker
But as you look at all of the different suppliers, a lot of them have nothing to do with cheese. And it's more about the food making process. Mm-hmm. And things like things things like the importance of cleanliness as you're making food products. And so there's cleaners and there's table manufacturers and then there's distributors.
00:17:12
Speaker
And all these things that are revolving around this concept of cheese are all going to be in a one place and they're going to have this massive trade show floor. And so that's the first point. The second point then is I've every time I've gone to a trade show or worked a booth and I love working a booth. One of the comments you made in our pre-work is, uh, Trigley could not make, ah ah avoid a mustache joke if he tried. Of course, that's what an old friend would say. And that's by and large true.
00:17:40
Speaker
But when you're working at trade show. About three out of 10 people are actually looking. and So there's three. So about three out of the 10 people you're going to meet.
00:17:53
Speaker
ah Those are the people who this is a vacation for them. They're away from their children and they're on an expense report and they're going to be collecting pens. And God help you if you try and drink them, buy them a drink because i'll put you under a table.
00:18:07
Speaker
Absolutely. Then there's the two people who are being forced to be there and are just walking around because they don't really know what to do and buy it for the don't talk to them because they'll stare straight ahead and they will not look at you for any reason whatsoever.
00:18:23
Speaker
But then there's the three or four people who are actually looking for things and actually wanting to meet people and and not just get free stuff. So is that, how far off am I? No, you and I just came off from a trade show last week Indianapolis. That was probably 35,000 people. And I was doing just that, working at trade show booth. And the three critical areas that we look at trade shows, pre-show, joining a show, post-show. Pre-show involve not only is it though even the right show to be at, are my prospects there?
00:18:52
Speaker
That also is how I all sudden look at the media that is is attending. Because if the media matches the editorial that they're readers and consumers of their content is our ideal customer profile. And we're at the right show.
00:19:07
Speaker
um During the show, everything from how do you get their attention? How do you bring them on your carpet? um how How do you capture that lead? I'm a big fan and especially the larger trade shows that have the lead apps that you can put on your race phone and race scans.
00:19:20
Speaker
um and And probably the number one biggest biggest mistake that we see around trade shows um is follow up. You go back to your office, you've been out, as you said, and you've been away from the family, you get back to the office, you got that bag of information that you maybe collected. And then two weeks later, president CEO walks and says, how was that trade show? Do we get a return out of it?
00:19:46
Speaker
I don't know. I better probably call some leads. You pick up that bag, two, three weeks later, you start calling people. They don't even remember who you are. We love the workflow, especially with HubSpot for this situation. Our...
00:19:58
Speaker
Ideal situation would be you step off our carporting onto the next booth and you've already gotten an email. Now that that's probably really questioning, but more likely we go back to the hotel that night on day one, upload those leads, you know, pre-written workflows are ready to go. They triggered by the fact that we upload those leads and code them to a trade show. 95% of companies aren't even doing that.
00:20:20
Speaker
So they don't, so they're wasting their investment. We want to get that engagement right away. And then in those workflows is where you can do all your branding and your messaging. If we have past articles, hey, don't take our word for it. Here's what Industry Week or Plastics News met magazine thought of our company.
00:20:37
Speaker
Those third-party endorsements, especially if they tie back to an extensive what we call press room on a website where all these articles live, they impact SEO. I encourage the salespeople to use them when they're explaining who the company is, whether they're talking about marketing qualified leads or sales qualified leads.
00:20:55
Speaker
up The public relations articles and interviews and videos and podcasts like yours all exist and become great content for follow-up, not just at trade shows, but in that general marketing that we started talking about initially.
00:21:12
Speaker
Another good way to say that is is, in the cacophony of noise on a trade show floor where everybody's carnival barking. And that's why I like it. Cause I think I'm a carnival barker at heart, which is why they gave me a podcast getting constantly inundated and Hey, here's a free Chachki. And how about this?
00:21:31
Speaker
that that that The winning formula starts with a a concerted sales hand to hand effort. Like you said, so when you walk off the carpet, you're already going to, you're the continuity of the conversation continues.
00:21:45
Speaker
Sure. And although I have some roots and have used for all our products for many years, I'm not a big fan of just putting something on a table for people to grab because those are not the people that you want to talk to. You want to, just like in any situation, you want to filter and quickly identify who is a prospect and why, what the follow-up is going to look like, what content they're receiving. Is it coming specifically from the salesperson that they met with at a show. We've done that many times where the lists are segmented.
00:22:16
Speaker
um And again, it's just as important as creating the relationships with the media. Again, as I mentioned, we're encouraging appointments at the trade show booth because again, that's your storefront for the week.
00:22:28
Speaker
And if you can get the media there and say, hey, come meet the CEO, come meet our engineers, and ideally identify topics that they can talk about, which, you know, one one pro tip that I would share is every one of these publications, they need advertising to survive.
00:22:45
Speaker
And to do that and to educate their advertisers, they develop what's called editorial calendars. Hey, these are the big rock stories that we're covering for the next 12 months. And what we do is we look at that from a PR side say, oh, but you're covering metallics and metals that are of similar nature and 3D trading in November. Perfect. That's a great topic for our client.
00:23:08
Speaker
um And we try to make that fit, but you have to do your research. You have to understand the publications. You have to be familiar with the editors and reporters, what they've written. And it's no different than creating a relationship in other sales situations.
00:23:23
Speaker
and more Sure, because the that's the November is when all the designers come out with their intermetallic spring lines. Absolutely. be right Yeah. I don't know where that one came. but That came out from a, while I did 12 years with a 3d metal printer and and we're not engineers, but we can fake it pretty good.
00:23:38
Speaker
Did you really set somebody who can actually print three d metal? Oh yeah, absolutely. Very cool technology has exploded through the years. But a lot of manufacturing is using that technology and prototyping as well. And not just in and prototype, but production parts as well. But yeah, so we need to know enough of our clients' technology and engineering and capabilities so that when we get on the phone with an editor and we're pitching a story, that's important. and that's maybe...
00:24:08
Speaker
do for a little explanation there. A lot of times people say, oh, I want to get a press release out. And press releases to us are probably the least sexiest way to get news out of Yeah, if you've got a plant expansion or, you know, maybe a management change um and you send it out to pre-detarment media list, that's fine because you're going to get a little blurb.
00:24:27
Speaker
But when a press release is designed, we design it, hey, we need to know what do we want to happen. when someone sees this news. And what we might want to happen is we might want to get either a factory tour from that reporter, we might want to get a deeper article. We're going for a play.
00:24:44
Speaker
um So oftentimes if we have a certain topic, we'll make our media list and we'll have our top publications that we want to reach and we pick up the phone. and And that's the pitch. You have to have in 10 seconds to know what you're talking about, get their attention, show respect for them in that you've read what they've written in the past, um and gain that respect in a very short period time. And they the number one secret pro tip that I'll ever give anybody that picks up the phone and calls any editor reporter, the very first thing is they don't care who you are or where calling from.
00:25:18
Speaker
The very first thing you say, Chigby, you got a second or are you on deadline? And they will pause and you are immediately showing respect for them. They're like, and I've only had it happen like one out of 20 times where they say, yeah, I'm about to go on the air. Can you call back? most of the time they say, yeah, I'm busy. But here's where the curiosity of the cat kicks in.
00:25:37
Speaker
What do you got? And that's where you've got your 10 seconds to shine and say, hey, I'm calling about this company. They do this and this. I saw your editorial topic covering that. And we thought it might be a good fit. That's the pitch right there. right there I just ah read something recently from a sales guru. I can't remember which one. i think it's I think it's Chris Voss, the hostage negotiator, who said that anytime you're doing any sort of cold outreach, you should immediately go for a no as quickly as possible.
00:26:07
Speaker
Rob, i didn't i did I catch you at a bad time? No? Oh, great. Cool. Here's why I'm calling. So you can get people to inadvertently affirm that they're going to let you do things. Is that in the Don't Leave Money on the Table book? Is that the one?
00:26:26
Speaker
I don't know. He's kind of, he's going to, I think I'm in the middle of reading that right now. And he he's a, he was hostage negotiator for the FBI or something. Yeah. Do that. I think i' read chapter three of six books. It's, we had a guy in the show who talked about how to read people. He was a former spy for the SAS and I've got his book, but I keep staring at me and I keep thinking I'm going read it, but I never get to it.
00:26:46
Speaker
Yeah, but it's all about establishing relationships and jokingly reporters and editors are people too. If you show respect, you show knowledge, that would be two other big biggest mistakes that we see is one, not pitching the right publication. So if I've got a client and a diecast aluminum parts, pitching it to a Hall & Garden magazine is a really wild example of the absolutely wrong market.
00:27:14
Speaker
um So you got to know your market. At the same time, you can look up and say, wow, there's six reporters listed. I'm going to email all of them. No. You need to go to the right one that's covering your beat. I just had a reporter switch on me and say, hey, we're sending so-and-so because um this is really his beat.
00:27:32
Speaker
And he covers this, that, and the other thing. And he came out and did an interview with the president and CEO of one of the manufacturers and did a factory tour. And it's a really large, 100-plus-year-old, respected publication. it's a big It's a big hit for us and their circulation alone is going to be worth it.
00:27:51
Speaker
But you got to understand what they're covering. um And again, editorial calendars, you can go to the websites, they have what they call media kits. um This is where they tell you about your circulation and what the topics they're covering.
00:28:04
Speaker
Again, those are written for advertisers to get them to realize that they can advertise and what their return is. But we use it from a PR standpoint. Now, I think one of of the other things that people really don't appreciate, especially in 2025, is the notion that, well, print media is dead, right? So why would I want to spend time there?
00:28:27
Speaker
And I would argue that it is not dead. There are still many industrial media publications that are printing every month and growing. on Really, there is no one ad, one article silver bullet.
00:28:40
Speaker
um you You know, the advertising has to be consistent and um and people say, oh, but it's not. I said, why does McDonald's advertise? Why do they still do it? And I often talk about a three-legged stool um that if any one of those legs gets pulled out, the campaign can fail.
00:28:57
Speaker
And first is one leg could be circulation. Are you actually targeting the right? readership and so forth. We talked about that earlier. The other is where we all live and die is on the creative is the messaging, right? Was the font, right? Colors and so forth. But that third leg is frequency. And if you just, you do one ad, it's not going to cut it. Now, if it's at a ah hard bound once a year published directory, that's, that might be what The only time one ad would work.
00:29:26
Speaker
And it's the same thing with PR. Just because you get one article doesn't mean everybody's going to see it, but you certainly have ways to use it on social media and email marketing. And again, I mentioned sales follow-up. Hey, in case you missed it here, its we are featured in this article. um It's a lead-in, but it's a reputation builder as well.
00:29:45
Speaker
And it's about the story that you're telling and the way in which it's stories. Sure. The story matters. I mean, the one A of that, is oh print media. is Oh, no, it's not. I think the important thing that you said, Rob, is industrial publications are still alive.
00:29:58
Speaker
Now they may have gone stronger digitally and reminds me of the old way of how do you determine value? And I, my pre HubSpot, pre-digital life, um, he said, we got you your a full page article and a publication. If that had been an ad, that would have been worth $5,000. There's your value. That means nothing to lead generation. There's nothing to measure there.
00:30:19
Speaker
And I often think about what they used to call clipping services. And i would think of these, these You know little old ladies sitting around clipping articles from a publication and three months later, sending it back to you and say, oh, you got this hit.
00:30:31
Speaker
Again, that means nothing. But now you enter digital and not only the publications being heavily digital, even if they are still in print, but how do you measure that? referral links in HubSpot, traffic from a certain page, a certain article.
00:30:46
Speaker
That to me was what put me over the top on the digital side. So now we can measure things much more effectively. And that's what the modern marketer, advertiser, B2B manufacturer wants. They want lead generation. Where's the debt data behind it? And did we see a spike? With this, did we get lead conversions? Did they drive to a form that only existed maybe in that article?
00:31:09
Speaker
What have you. Those are the exciting things I think are still playing out with digital. I think all of this sort of begs the question then is in 2025, how do companies really measure the success or determine success of a PR, particular PR campaign? Sure.
Measuring PR Success with Digital Metrics
00:31:28
Speaker
Again, the digital measurement is one, you know, reputation is such that if you ask the salespeople, i they're invariably going to say, I sold that deal, but they might, no, no, but they may though they may never admit that, oh, they saw an article and they called us, what have you.
00:31:44
Speaker
I think it becomes a general feeling, but you need to look at your overall branding and how to use this on a consistent basis. I was at a trade show with a client and this, this A father, son, a customer of theirs came up, and I think the father had been in the business 50 years. The son was taking over.
00:32:01
Speaker
And we did a quick picture in front of the booth and took him for social media. And I asked my client afterwards, I go, would they be a good case study? study And it became a nice little article. Now you have your choice on publications, what I call it your own canvas that we all control as our blog.
00:32:17
Speaker
um And we can put whatever we want there. Different from a third party print publication or digital where they're and they decide what goes in their publication. And again, and we've talked about that circulation, but those are are just fantastic opportunities. And from a lead generation standpoint, this is... Probably two of my most favorite ways to build lead generation is these case studies, or just as importantly, a white paper or an e-book. I've got clients that, and I'm sure you've done the same, where we might commission a tactical writer and get ah a white paper done.
00:32:50
Speaker
And it sounds harsh, but I don't care if for they read it. What I want is the lead. And we had one where I'm like, oh, we'll get six, eight weeks out of this. And I kid you not eight, 10 years later, people are still downloading that white paper engineers that were probably in middle school when it was written.
00:33:08
Speaker
And we want the lead. We want that ping on, on the CRM of your choice. Obviously have partial help. So we get instant. hit, someone just download white paper, pick up the phone. You're just supposed to call what, what's the golden rule? Five minutes?
00:33:22
Speaker
Five minutes or less. I called one. I go, I'm going to have fun. I'm going to put my best tribute hat on. And I called the guy that downloaded one of our eBooks within three minutes. He's I just did that. I go, I know.
00:33:33
Speaker
yeah And I go, and again, I don't care if they go, oh, hey, I don't have time. I didn't have time to read it yet. I go, that's okay. What were you looking for? When you find a nest sales, whether they said, oh, I wanted to read that article or featured in or what have you.
00:33:48
Speaker
That to me is it's a combination of art and science, of course, but that's where you can get into the measurement on the, on those downloads. So in 2025, and we spent a lot of time talking about PR because we've never had a PR specialist on the show, but you're, because. Let know when you get one.
00:34:06
Speaker
I will, yeah. And we can have a we can have like a mustache battle or something. um
00:34:14
Speaker
how do How does a manufacturer create a consistent pipeline with all the different channels and all the different things and the constant noise yes and the supply chain and their own channels? And how do you build a pipeline today?
00:34:27
Speaker
Sure. In our world, especially manufacturers, they're all still in a sense a little old school. um They're a little sensitive to, I don't want to email my client more than once a month or so, or maybe once, even two months. I go, the average prospect takes 10 to 15 touches and you're only hitting them six times a year. It's going to be a, it's a long battle.
00:34:47
Speaker
Then they're not your clients anymore. Yeah. Yeah. There's somebody else's. I think that with PR becomes an additional piece of content that can be used, um again, whether you're using marketing qualified or sales qualified workflows and so forth.
Maintaining Consistent Content Pipelines
00:35:02
Speaker
In 2025 and beyond, I would ask people to seriously recommit to what we call a content map.
00:35:09
Speaker
When we work with our clients, we march out, hey what are the big stories we're going to be writing about for the next 12 months? And they may be um feature. We're fortunate enough to have a very unique model in that three of our largest clients are employee-owned.
00:35:24
Speaker
And I love working with employee-owned customers because they're all pulling in the same direction. They may not agree on how to get there, but they all want to grow the company that they have. stock in and in most B2B settings, I would say LinkedIn is a very strong platform as we all use that.
00:35:41
Speaker
Interesting enough in the, uh, employing stock ownership programs and employee owned companies, they actually also do very well on Facebook because that's where a lot of their employees and past employees live.
00:35:54
Speaker
So we're doing a lot of what we call milestones. Hey, you've been here for 50 years 25 years. And here's a little history. And we've actually had clients even very recently in the last month send a social post back saying, hey, look at what someone wrote. It was great to see your employees. Great to see a company that it honors their employees, that they're not just a number and does a feature. um To me, that's measurement. That is is impactful. That is what a lot of companies should be looking at 2025 and beyond. And we come across, as I'm sure you do, on being heavy on the website. You look at a website that looks like it's from the 1990s.
00:36:30
Speaker
um Some of their machinery that they may still use on a day-to-day basis may be 100 years old, but the websites don't need to be Looking like they they were there. And i think that's something that if you can put all these pieces, parts in place and build the website, that's going to impact lead conversion, you need content. It's like ah SEO and keywords. And you guys do that too.
00:36:53
Speaker
um You can do all the keyword research you want, but if you don't use the keywords in this content on a regular basis, In conjunction with whether you're doing advertising sponsorships, again, trade shows, everything anything from the floor graphics to the cocktail party to all these are branding and hits that are going to come into a ah modern plan. You can't just do one tactic or one article and hope for the best. Just like in know one trade show every three years isn't going to cut it either.
00:37:24
Speaker
Yeah, i think the struggle that I have with a lot of industrial manufacturers is they've got their three clients and they have no interest in fourth a fourth. And so they're just praying that nothing ever changes or a client leaves. And so they're just hanging on like grim death.
00:37:39
Speaker
And they don't really want to reinvest in the concept of growth as much as they're afraid of the status quo changing. They may be what we call calendar watchers. Hey, I'm retiring in three months or 36 months.
00:37:51
Speaker
I have a new question I've been asking because our ideal prospect is going to be manufacturer that usually has, and you've seen a bunch of wildcat salespeople run around with spreadsheets with no CRM, um no, no knowledge what each other is doing, but they don't really have marketing.
00:38:07
Speaker
And, you know, ideally that's where we come in to help them on that aspect. Um, and You take these couple wildcats and you got to rein them in. But the number one question I'm starting to ask is, oh yeah, we have five salespeople. I'm like, are they farmers or hunters?
00:38:26
Speaker
And if they're farmers, meaning they're getting what's coming in, They're not going to be very excited to, to grow the company as you just mentioned. But if they're like, oh no, we got a couple of guys and gals out there. They'd love to, to eat what they kill. I'm like, all right, now we can start talking about content and marketing and how we're going to position either both their expertise as well as the companies. Cause sometimes it's just as much about the people, you know, that are doing the engineering and doing the quality control and manufacturing the products.
00:38:56
Speaker
I met a guy who worked in the insurance industry for car dealerships. Neatest guy in the world. He had a bunch of old salespeople and yeah somebody had recommended me to him. So I went in and I talked to him and he said, this all sounds fantastic and I can't do any of it. I'm like, what are you talking about, man? You're the boss. Why can't you do it?
00:39:19
Speaker
He said, ah six months ago, I changed the phone system. Three, three guys quit.
00:39:25
Speaker
Because they didn't want to learn they didn't want to learn anything new. And so when I called their bluff, they that note they quit. So if I got guys quitting over the phone, I got to have guys producing. And so having your staff hold you hostage is a real thing, especially in this day and age, if you let them run amok and not have a centralized system.
00:39:46
Speaker
yeah you're Yeah, I'm thinking I hear amok and I'm thinking of what is that Halloween Town movie with the three witches amok, amok, amok, they're running amok. If you don't have you have the right people in play, we often see that on content generation.
00:40:00
Speaker
So couple ways to solve that problem is first of all, factory tours, I call them content tours. I'm walking through one of our clients' factories one day and they are traditional rubber lathe cut gaskets, not the quietest or cleanest factories in the world because they're dealing with rubber. Also, we come around the corner and there's this room that's all sealed off and it's white and the gaskets are white.
00:40:23
Speaker
And I go, what is this? They go, oh, we're the only ones that make this gasket for the milk factor milk industry. I'm like the only ones? Story. That becomes a story. That content is under your nose all the time. And the other issue is getting content. One of the first things we ask, even when someone's a prospect is not only will your customers talk to us, you know, from a case study, but if we need to pull content out of your engineers and the quality people, what have you,
00:40:55
Speaker
Are they willing to do that? If they if I get on the phone, they go, I don't have time to talk about this. That's marketing. Why is this important? If they're not going to play, we're not going to get the content and we're going to have a problem.
00:41:06
Speaker
That's a question that I've been asking people lately is, can you give me five the names of five happy customers?
00:41:15
Speaker
And they'll always say yes, but the question what I'm evaluating is how long does it of an awkward pause is it before they say yes? Can they name them quickly? And they're like, can you get can you give me three? If you can't give me three, eh, know not to happen. Here's the rub, Chigby, and this is what we run into, especially in manufacturing. I'm not sure about other industries, but...
00:41:35
Speaker
So many of our clients are making things that are top secret. Can't tell you black helicopters are going to land if I start talking about it. I've had clients with high risk for PR. We're not allowed to talk about 90% of what they do. like Yeah. Can't talk about what we make or what we do. What are what are we going to do? So what do we do in that situation?
00:41:53
Speaker
is we talk about application stories. Here's what we make. Here's how we do it. Here's the reasons it's important. Here's, you know, how important is porosity, which are little bubbles, my favorite word ah in aluminum die casting. I love talking about that, that term that I learned because I sound important, but education PR, teaching your prospects. Every one of our manufacturers, I'll tell you, will complain.
00:42:19
Speaker
It's nothing but these kids in purchasing. They're just checking a number. They don't even know what they're buying. So yeah and hence doing education and coming back. But i if I've got a client saying, oh, we're not goingnna be able to get you anybody to talk to. I go, we can't just make it up. I go, we need access to to content ten experts. And that's in PR and marketing, trade show, you name it. You need those folks to build that content out. but That's what the robots are for now. And that's what AI is for is just to...
00:42:49
Speaker
AI is okay. And I do think there's a place for AI and AI is certainly going to impact everything we we do. um And it's certainly answering a lot of questions for me on how to do things around the house. But the reality is you still need to be able to tell your story and talk about your content and why it's important.
00:43:07
Speaker
And the marketing qualified side is education about the product and what the company makes and so forth. The sales qualified side is, hey, they've already raised their hand. They're requesting a quote or what have you.
00:43:18
Speaker
Now we need to talk about differentiating the company. Okay. Well, you figure you've got three companies on a bid list. Why is this company better? There's a story about our engineer and here's a story about the founder and here's our culture and how we achieve thought leadership in the industry and PR.
00:43:34
Speaker
Those are the two different approaches between marketing, qualifying, sales, qualified debt. PR and articles and all this content, then it's going to live forever on your website, as well as what we call your press room. If you get articles by all means, put them in a press room chronologically and someone, you know, goes there and that's an impression.
00:43:53
Speaker
Here, there's a hundred articles on the on our company over the last 10 years. You know, you can't debate it that that sets them up for prestige Especially when Google itself, if you get good at Google searching, not only do you get the abstract of everything, but you can actually break that down and say, show me all the news articles about a company or a thing that I'm searching about.
00:44:17
Speaker
Sure. Sure. And if you don't have any, then somebody else is going to fill that mold for sure. So there's a lot of steps that have to come into play. You have to understand at the end of the day, you have to understand the ideal customer profile and persona. We spent a lot of time developing that persona.
00:44:32
Speaker
So we know what we're writing about and who we're targeting. And that match is is when you find the right publication and that, but again, the readership, the consumer of that content, print or digital, when it doesn't matter.
00:44:45
Speaker
If they match your prospect persona, now you know that's the right publication. And the publications come out with all the data and how many people they reach. and I had an experience last night that made me think of you and why I was so excited to talk about PR with you is I took my son to his piano lesson and my son is, he's 10 now. And as we were driving home, he said, he started talking to me, he's, you know what, dad, you know, how you and mom keep talking about how don't expand my food choices.
00:45:19
Speaker
And I really should try new things and live more in the world. I said, yeah, I know. And he goes, I think I'd like to try a Big Mac tonight. Do you think we could do that?
00:45:30
Speaker
Because I'm ready to try something new, dad. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. And then we started driving to McDonald's and he kept talking about how excited he was to expand his horizons. How excited, I wonder how it's, how I'm going to feel. And I wonder how, and then we bought all the food and I got back to my house and I'm sitting there eating McDonald's with my son. And I thought to myself, wait a minute, how did I get here?
00:46:00
Speaker
Cause I wasn't talking about McDonald's. I was, he instantly knew Not to sell the features of me and benefits of McDonald's. he wanted He sold the after effect. And so the story he told was about what I would get out of it, not what he would get out of it.
00:46:17
Speaker
He played you. And I couldn't, I was simultaneously pissed and proud that I got suckered like that. But that happens to me three times a week, especially with that kid.
Episode Closure and Acknowledgments
00:46:27
Speaker
Rob, I want to have you back in future seasons because you're a wealth of information and you're a great guy to hang out with. And this has been too long since I've been able to see you and talk to you. If people want to find you, people want more information on how you can help them, where can they find you?
00:46:42
Speaker
Of course, again, our web website, felbertpr.com. It's you can get there. My, my emails there very simply robfelbert, felbertpr.com. I am on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn. I'm there all the time.
00:46:55
Speaker
um and, happy to talk to anybody, see if we're a fit, if I can answer their questions on PR and what it looks like. And sometimes people get very confused between between What I call pure PR editorial, I'll leave you with this thought is, you know, a New York times or a wall street journal reporter.
00:47:15
Speaker
They are reporters. I NPR, they are reporters. They are not the sales folks on the publication side. And we try to keep that wall between sales and editorial intact, meaning I'm not going to call up an editor and say, Hey, my client's an advertiser.
00:47:29
Speaker
How about you do an article on them? They're going to hang up on you. So that's a critical point to understand the difference between editorial and sales. Now, though the lines are getting a little blurred sometimes when there's we call advertorial, where you pay to play and they say, hey, you have this article, but you're going to get an ad with it.
00:47:49
Speaker
I don't mind those situations because, again, it's paid advertising as long as you know what' what you're going into it. I've had situation many years ago where I was pitching a story for 11 months.
00:48:00
Speaker
And we get to that midnight point and they go, hey, we're gonna run this story. By the way, can your client take an ad? I'm like, could you not have just told me that was the game we were playing from the beginning? I want pure editorial.
00:48:12
Speaker
I was walking around in Boston. 15 years ago with an NPR reporter, and then we got back to the show and someone tried to grab his sleeve and say, Hey, I want to show you this. And he pulled back. goes I'm NPR. You don't tell me what to cover. I decide. And that's the purest of journalists that is still out there, especially And even in the industrial media, I had a reporter the other day said, look, I know you're not going to show me the draft of an article.
00:48:39
Speaker
Big mistake. People always say, I'm going to see this article before it's published. like, no, you're not. and You'll see it when it's published. They may call to double check some technical facts. But by all means, you're not going to see it. Probably the tangent that we can go into maybe ah the next time we talk about it is how to behave with reporter, what to expect, what you know, never say something that you don't want to see in the article.
00:49:03
Speaker
You know, I had a client mention a customer and they afterwards said, oh, in the technical draft, we saw the customer and i was like, oh, you mentioned it. And this reporter who was now working industrial spent 30 years in newspapers.
00:49:16
Speaker
He goes, Rob, because I'm going to take it out this one time or only. There's never ever asked me to edit something again. And I'm like, yes sir yes, sir. Thank you. And because my client didn't understand, they think it's, oh, it you could just edit. And no, once you say it, it's out there, it's on their recorder. It's in their notebook.
00:49:36
Speaker
Yeah. Exactly. Rob, thank you so much. It's been a joy to see you again. Joy to catch up. We can have you back? Absolutely. Oh, fantastic. We'll see you though. If the podcast tanks and nobody listens, then, you know, the the data will... Well, obviously you need to hire a good PR firm if the podcast tanks. No, but this was fun. A long time coming. And I know we jumped around a lot, but hopefully there's some jewels of knowledge for your listeners.
00:50:00
Speaker
We'll see. Thanks. Thank you, Rob, for joining us. And thank you to Dave for enjoying his vacation. And this has been another episode of Dial It In, produced by Andy Watowski and Nicole Fairclough. We hope she feels better.
00:50:12
Speaker
Absolutely. And much like Tony Kornheiser, we will all try to do better the next time.